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1 • NibmleX (by Pig_Pen on 2008-07-28 09:09:04 GMT from United States)
sounds nice, of course NimbleX has a good daddy (Slackware) and most all of Slackware's children make nice distros, I find Zenwalk-Core to be to be my favorite for building a custom system (especially on system's with SATA drives)...
as far as Foxconn goes i will NEVER buy a Foxconn motherboard and yes i build my own PCs, I wonder if Mathew Garrett was paid off by Foxconn to speak in their defense, no self respecting developer would say that after the evidence was presented as plainly seen in disassembled BIOS tables, = you hear that Foxconn and other hardware manufacturers? you better get your act together because your negligence (and maliciousness) will be found out and it WILL come back to bite you...
2 • KDE 4.1 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 09:14:29 GMT from Germany)
Don't forget that KDE 4.1 will be released on Tuesday! :-)
3 • Why NimbleX sucks (by Béranger on 2008-07-28 09:28:01 GMT from Romania)
1. Because they only offer ISO files, which means: no updated packages, and, most importantly, no source packages!
2. Because Softpedia CENSORED my comment stating that NimbleX doesn't offer the source packages.
4 • With due respect to Nimblex, Slax is better in some aspects (by BhaKi on 2008-07-28 09:35:36 GMT from India)
Hi Steven Lake, I think you have been lavish in praise of Nimblex. While it is certainly a great live distro, you should have atleast mentioned once in the article that Nimblex is based on Slax. You have commented that Nimblex is the most complete live distro so far. I must point out that "completeness" means different things to different people. For instance, Slax offers basic development tools including gcc suite and several developement libraries and headers. Try typing "gcc hello.c" in Nimblex. That said, Nimblex provides some apps (e.g. Linuxdc++), which are not present in Slax.
It's a nice review, though. You should have tried Slax in addition to Nimblex. It has all the technical features of Nimblex. After all, it's the parent distro of Nimblex.
5 • ath9k - Atheros unveils free Linux driver for its 802.11n devices (by Observing good news! on 2008-07-28 09:41:43 GMT from Australia)
ath9k - Atheros unveils free Linux driver for its 802.11n devices
We are pleased to announce Atheros has released ath9k to the community. This driver is aimed at inclusion to the Linux kernel and supports all Atheros IEEE 802.11n devices. This represents a major shift in terms of support from Atheros with respect to Linux. The ath9k driver comes shortly after Atheros hired two key Linux wireless developers -- Luis Rodriguez and Jouni Malinen.
http://madwifi.org/wiki
ath9k is a completely FOSS wireless driver for Atheros IEEE 802.11n WLAN based chipsets.
http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/ath9k
6 • Re. 3 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 09:49:23 GMT from United States)
"2. Because Softpedia CENSORED my comment stating that NimbleX doesn't offer the source packages."
Good for you.
I admit, I'm getting flat-out tired of hearing your crying about some random distro "not providing sources" every few weeks. Maybe DistroWatch can censor it too?
Alright, I am being sarcastic on the censoring part, but seriously--can you bring anything into the discussion other than the usual GPL/source violations whining and flame wars? :|
7 • KDE 4.1 - hopefully doesn't suck that much (by Eric Yeoh on 2008-07-28 09:49:40 GMT from Malaysia)
So far KDE 4.0x has been the greatest disservice to the KDE project. Yeah I know it is not meant to be "usable" and all that, but I am of the opinion that they should at least tagged it as experimental or something. So far, only OpenSUSE managed to make KDE 4 usable. Kubuntu and Fedora's KDE 4 releases are really bad jokes.
I am sorry if I offended anyone. I realised much effort has been put in kind and talented people. KDE 3.5x may not have as much bells and whistles as 4.0x but it is something that works.
Here's hoping KDE 4.1 will at least be usable. Yeah I know, there are among you out there who has been running 4.0x for since it's launch and so forth, good for you. I still find it sucky.
8 • I also had loads of trouble with Foxconn motherboards (by Jim on 2008-07-28 10:08:49 GMT from Hong Kong)
I am in agreement with the previous comments on Foxconn motherboards.
The name says it pretty well..........it is a con!
In one case I had to take a Foxconn motherboard back for repairs twice under guarantee. Obviously the quality control in China these days where the motherboards are assembled is way under par. Choose carefully when you are buying your next motherboard or get burnt!
9 • Re #7 (by Simon on 2008-07-28 10:17:40 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hey, upgraded to Fedora 9 when it came out with KDE 4.0.something on my spare machine and to be fair things were a bit shaky (although they got better with successive 4.0.x releases. But I switched to the 4.1 betas as soon as they were available and at that stage they were better already (for me). I'm now on 4.1 RCs of Fedora 9 and they are pretty good, no real stability issues (occasionally I can crash plasma on log out) and pretty much on a par with 3.5 functionality-wise (I'm missing a few things like proper ark integration) and much nicer and shiner in my view. Put it this way - I didn't upgrade my main machine to 4.0.x but now have 4.1rc rather than 3.5 because, for me, it is better. Of course, your mileage may vary but I believe by 4.2 KDE4 will be the better choice over 3.5 for everyone and by 4.1 final/during 4.1.x for most people
10 • Atheros/VIA, Cloud/SaaS and KDE 4.1 (by Dan MacDonald on 2008-07-28 10:35:27 GMT from United Kingdom)
As #6 has already mentioned, one of the major open source stories of the last week was Atheros releasing some Linux friendly drivers. Another pretty significant story was VIA releasing hundreds of pages of docs for a few of their products in order to foster improved FOSS support. These events have been occurring more and more frequently recently and hopefully this trend is set to continue as it will be greatly beneficial for the open source movement.
You asked for comment on the whole cloud computing hype bubble (or hype cloud, as it is) and hype is all it is far as I'm concerned. It MAY be of interest to the enterprise and certain types of business deployment but I'd certainly want to keep my business well away from even considering using a cloud/SaaS model. The only apps that I would ever consider running under a browser or running non-locally are those that REQUIRE an internet connection ie email client or FTP client. Saying this, googlemail isn't what it used to be and I frequently get disconnected or can't log in these days. As far as application speed, response, reliability and security the cloud model stinks. Why should I want to use a web-based word processor when we have OOo writer and super-cheap hardware and risk not being able to do anything or having to work at snails-pace when connection problems inevitably raise their ugly head? Cloud computing? Vapour indeed - absolute marketing gimmickry.
I'm not quite sure last time I tried KDE 4- it was either 4.0 or one of the .0 beta/RC releases but it was an absolute appalling mess and could barely have been considered alpha IMO. So it was with very low expectations I installed the latest 4.1 RC under Hardy yesterday- what a nice surprise I had! The KDE devs have lived up to their promises and 4.1 is a very nice looking, usable desktop with some cool features and many more to come. I have a weird problem with compiz/GNOME under fglrx on Hardy in that when I turn it on I can't left click- didn't used to happen and maybe it'd go if I did a re-install but I'm not that bothered now as I only ever really used the zoom function in compiz and kwin has a similar feature under its desktop effects which works just fine.
On the down side, running KDE4.1 seems to consume about 200MB more RAM than running the latest GNOME desktop under Hardy. Whatever happened to all these promises of KDE4 being super-lightweight, not requiring as much resources as KDE 3.x/GNOME? I would presume there's plenty of optimisations they can do yet, or at least I hope they'll be able to slim down its memory requirements. The other problem I've had is konq is still very crash prone but is in a much, much better state than last time I tried it under 4.0 as it was totally unusable then.
A few days ago I thought KDE was done for but now I'm quite excited to see where 4.1+ is going to take the Linux desktop. This is obviously the most exciting year yet for free software!
11 • NimbleX & others (by Stodgy on 2008-07-28 10:36:25 GMT from United Kingdom)
No doubt, Radulescu is THE king at present, with his incredible innovations, not least Web-selected content. His latest incarnation is impressive. However, if you want an impressively fast installer with minimal operator interaction, it's difficult to beat the one in the latest SliTaz(cooking) - just don't blink. One of my favourites (which had retained the traditional Slackware textual installer) is Absolute. I complained about their failure to adopt better installers as has been achieved by other Slack-based distro and within a week or two, we saw their announcement on DW. Well done guys. Surprising, also, not to see mention of the latest Ultima 8.4 - if you want a competent, codec-rich KDE desktop, this one is worthy.
12 • No subject (by morgan on 2008-07-28 10:49:51 GMT from United Kingdom)
The whole idea of cloud computing does not appeal to me at all.
The users will lose control of their systems they previously had - let alone the privacy/security aspect of having your personal information on someone elses server...
Also - 1 more thing IPCOP 1.4.21 was released the day after 1.4.20 ...
13 • boycott Foxconn (by Dante on 2008-07-28 11:17:01 GMT from Netherlands)
I heard something like this before with the motherboards of Foxconn. I am gonna make sure I am NOT buying their crap if they (allegedly) deliberate cripple linux installations. Eventually they are going to miss out...
regards,
Dante
14 • RE 6 (by Blue Knight on 2008-07-28 11:30:57 GMT from France)
> "but seriously--can you bring anything into the discussion other than the usual GPL/source violations whining and flame wars?"
Maybe do you think this is not important? Sorry to disappoint you but it IS a problem.
Open source is about sources and a distro which violates GPL, sorry "Anonymous" but again it's a problem!
15 • Ulteo (by Caraibes on 2008-07-28 11:46:27 GMT from Dominican Republic)
I have been trying Ulteo as a live-cd, and was surprised it sports a very old kernel (2.6.17), on which many newer hardware doesn't work (such as my sound & display...)
Anyway, I am not against the idea, but the 1st stable version should have been based on a kernel at least higher than 2.6.22 or 2.6.24...
16 • PARDUS (by Poindexter on 2008-07-28 12:04:54 GMT from Australia)
Finally found a distribution that works OOB on my toshiba Satellite M110 (tried PCLOS and Mint). Purists may not like Non Free stuff,
17 • Nimblex 2008 & Ulteo (by Dr.Saleem Khan on 2008-07-28 12:08:59 GMT from Pakistan)
This distribution is indeed worth "a one time try" because I like trimmed and customizable distributions. This is an ultimate power and freedom which any distribution can offer to an end user.
I have used Nimblex for some time and I was happy with it except one major complaint.
Somehow the Nimblex`s developer is extremly conscious about the size of Nimblex and he is not willing to add any available stable & working HD installer to it in the fear that the size of Nimblex should not go beyond 200mb. I am not just guessing out this fear, I had an IRC discussion with him regarding the installer one year back and he "promised" that sooner we are going to get a working HD installer.
And what we got is a weird installer which did some miserable job on my system when I tried installing Nimblex 2008 RC . It amost formatted my whole system drives despite the fact that I asked it to install it on a traget drive only.
Now I read Ref 3 • Why NimbleX sucks (by Béranger ) that Nimblex offers no updated packages.Does that mean we have to live with obsolete packages and no security packages if somehow we did manage to install Nimblex 2008 to HD? I thought Nimblex uses the updates and packages from Salckware.
These two reasons are quite valid to keep me away from Nimblex.
A smaller and customizable distribution is what I really prefer and PCLinuxOS
Minime is the one that gives me everything.
Gaël Duval`s Ulteo Application System "Sirius" stable was another excitement of this week that died unexpectedly in the mid. I installed it to HD and everything was smoothly going except the Ulteo`s repositries which were dead and would refuse to reload and update on "sudo apt-get update" . I tried to find out why the repos are dead but since there is no?? working IRC room for Ulteo I could not find any clue for this repos failure. May be some other day with Ulteo and it might work for me.
Thanks for another exciting DW.
18 • Cuil Linux Links (by CombatWombat on 2008-07-28 12:14:49 GMT from New Zealand)
New search engine, cuil.com, produces an interesting categories menu when you search for Distrowatch; it includes most of the main Linux distros, and a lot of little ones. The funny thing is I could not get it to show me a link for Ubuntu proper :-D
Oh well... a work in progress...
19 • PARDUS 2 (by Poindexter on 2008-07-28 12:16:33 GMT from Australia)
Re: 16
Forgot to thank Distrowatch for pointing me towards this easy, user friendly, newbie OS.
20 • Free Cloud (by Lobster on 2008-07-28 12:28:41 GMT from United Kingdom)
Interesting developments and comments guys.
Cloud computing has two phases. Marketing: we provide a service and you lease it from us and pay as much as we can get out of you . . .
And phase two. Rain Cloud, a free service initially sponsored by ads and finally free for all - public service computing.
Software leasing is a way of selling you software you already have.
However there is software that depends on data collection, for example Mobile Internet Devices will need mapping and other info changing updates. The challenge for the FOSS teams is to use people to power and update the info.
For example people using their phone cameras to create updates to GPS mapping systems.
Bandwidth and data storage too, need ways to enable p2p technologies.
21 • Etch and a half (by Darkman on 2008-07-28 12:34:01 GMT from United States)
I commend the Debian development team for the latest update to Etch. What a superb effort! Thank you.
22 • Upcoming releases (by Pumpino on 2008-07-28 12:37:55 GMT from Australia)
Just a small correction for the upcoming releases section. Fedora 10 alpha is to be released on 5th August, not 29th July. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/10/Schedule
23 • RE 15 A very simple solution to workaround the kernel age (by dbrion on 2008-07-28 13:15:05 GMT from France)
You "(were)trying Ulteo as a live-cd, and (were)was surprised it sports a very old kernel "
As some new fancy hardware might not be detected, you can ask yourself
a) what will be the price of this new HW within 2 months...
b) whether it would not be wiser to switch to Windows, as , if new hardware recognition is a priority, W$ is better supported and Ulteo was aware of that. Just look at their release announcement, which still exists on DW home page:
"Virtual Desktop Beta3: "It allows you to use the best Linux applications on the Windows(TM) operating system."
There fore, you will have only the best GNUlinuxpplications running on a blasphemy OS....
As for a kernel being too old, time to detect bugs (and then, to correct them) may be more than one year..... If one looks for software without too many, not yet detected, bugs, one must consider newer softs are .... too young..
24 • Foxconn (by Mike on 2008-07-28 13:17:50 GMT from United States)
If foxconn truly did this intentionally, just remember something: where there is one cockroach, there are many more. Lets wait and hear what they have to say about it. On the surface, it looks bad for them.
25 • Booting into KDM however, gives you a wide selection of 8 operating systems. (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 13:57:01 GMT from Canada)
... so KDM is able to select between different operating system ... ??????
;-)
26 • KDE 4.1 is already in ArchLinux (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 14:02:17 GMT from Canada)
and very stable/usable. libkde3 and some kde3 applications are still availlable
27 • BIOS trickery (by davemc on 2008-07-28 14:03:48 GMT from United States)
FoxCon is certainly not the only manufacturer to release a faulty BIOS - intentional or otherwise. That the BIOS for that board is obviously buggered is one thing, but proving that it was malicious and intentional, well, good luck with that! People usually hire attorneys for that sort of thing and follow it up with multi-million $$$ lawsuits for things like breach of contract, fraud, etc.. Then be sure the case also goes to criminal court as well so those responsible can spend some pleasant time with big Brutis in prison!
28 • re:23 (by Caraibes on 2008-07-28 14:03:59 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Rien à voir avec le prix du matos... Hors-sujet... Il se trouve tout simplement que du matériel neuf aujourd'hui n'est pas supporté par un vieux kernel... La solution est relativement simple: utiliser une distro qui offre un kernel plus adapté. et il y en a plein. Bien sur, pour ceux qui veulent, Windows reste une solution simple, mais je suis un amateur de Linux...
Enfin, tout ça pour dire qu'Ulteo ne me semble pas encore bien prêt, mais j'imagine que tout se fait par étape, et qu'il ne faut pas décourager Gaël...
29 • Qu 14 : why are Open Source sources so important (by dbrion on 2008-07-28 14:04:58 GMT from France)
"Open source is about sources and a distro which violates GPL(...) but again it's a problem!"
* Is it a formal problem, almost a superficial lapalissade?
* Is it a matter of respect towards the many authors of good quality software who choose this license ? (and the distributors act only as *algebrically* added go-betweens between the authors and the downloaders/sometimes_even_users)
* Is it a matter of preservation (if the founder dies/gets richer, and one wishes to rebuild (and slightly modify) his distro, it might be difficult without sources : this what I explain when I try to force my colleagues to keep my sources, though I know binaries will be enough....)
Or are there other (rational, I hope) reasons (not puns)?
30 • Qu 28 La nouveauté du matériel est elle une finalité (by dbrion on 2008-07-28 14:12:36 GMT from France)
dans ce bas monde? Alors, on peut accepter d'avoir des versions trop récentes de noyaux Linux (elles ne sont pas complétement testées, professionnellement, personne n'en voudrait pour une tâche liée à la sécurité, voire au confort).
Quand au ports des *meilleures* applications du GNU sous Windows, ceci est très bien fait depuis un siècle... et satisfait une majorité écrasante (argument très utilisé dans les fora de "linuxiens" ) des utilisateurs (et dénier au noyau Linux l'obligation d'être de qualité minimale incite à "piss with the wind" , par souci de conformisme, et à choisir l'affreux (comme les "linuxiens" aiment bien le réciter, de façon plus rituelle que rationnelle) Windows
31 • @ All those against KDE 4 (by Muhammad Fahd Waseem on 2008-07-28 14:25:46 GMT from Pakistan)
I have found it is very hard to judge the real quality of even the KDE 4.1s releases, let alone the 4.0.x. Quite often, it depends on which distro managed to make it usable...
SUSE has done magic, while my experience with Kubuntu KDE 4 was pathetic (http://scientechie.blogspot.com)
32 • TALENT ON LOAN FROM GOD (by Terlmann on 2008-07-28 15:03:47 GMT from United States)
Steven Lake: You sir, are a hairbrained simpleton.
"Booting into KDM however, gives you a wide selection of 8 operating systems. You have a choice of E16 (enlightenment), EDE, Enlightenment, Fluxbox, IceWM, KDE, Openbox, and TWM."
Graphical User Environments DO NOT CONSTITUTE INDIVIDUAL OPERATING SYSTEMS. Secondly... A complete distro must contain an updating solution better than ISO's, and source packages for all software included. NimbleX is not complete in any way shape or form.
Thirdly... you say it booted up quickly, but you fail to say how quickly. In the opinion of some people, Windows Vista boots up "quickly". That's not good enough sir, I demand more!.
33 • Re:30, c'est un cas d'école... (by Caraibes on 2008-07-28 15:25:57 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Oui, c'est un cas d'école: Ta carte mère est morte, il te faut aller au magasin pour en racheter une autre... Le type de mémoire ram et de processeur que tu avais n'existe plus, il te faut donc aussi racheter ces 2 dispositifs. Et une fois sur place, tu craques pour une carte-vidéo "premier prix", Nvidia par exemple...
Ce n'a rien à voir avec une finalité, sinon une situation, un impondérable, une obligation.
-Que faire ?
-Aller sur Ebay pour acheter du matériel obsolète ?
-Impossible pour moi, je ne possède toujours pas de carte de crédit, et je vis loin des circuits de distributions traditionnels, dans un pays "en voie de développement"...
-Alors quoi ?
-WinXP avec des logiciels FLOSS ?
-Oui, je l'ai déjà sur une autre partition, au cas ou... Mais c'est plus lent, et surtout beaucoup moins "amusant"... Oui, je te l'avoue, je suis un amateur des logiciels libres, et jusqu'à présent je trouve qu'ils sont plus pratiques à utiliser... Cela ne veux pas dire que je n'installe pas WinXP pour les clients, mais pour moi, je préfère quelque chose basé sur Debian...
Voilà un peu mes impressions...
34 • The Foxconn Situation (by Duhnonymous on 2008-07-28 15:43:50 GMT from United States)
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/251338
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=456352
There's still a lot of discussion, so I wouldn't say the issue is resolved.
35 • RE 29 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 16:02:44 GMT from France)
> "Or are there other (rational, I hope) reasons (not puns)?"
Perhaps it's because I misunderstood you (sometimes my english "me joue des tours" ;-) ) but would you suggest that we don't care about violate the GPL? Hmm if so, you have a "special" mentality...
Then maybe we should abolish them?
As said the last week, "Free/Libre Open Sources Software is about the SOURCES!" OK?
First it's the respect of the licence (and of users and the work from others.......) that you use....
36 • No subject (by Frank on 2008-07-28 16:02:49 GMT from United States)
RE 6
GPL exist for a reason, at least some one is cares about it.
and what you do attack people who defends it, who is next in you list? Richard Stallman?
congratulations to Beranger and all the others who defend it.
37 • Lightweight Linux Distro (by drizake on 2008-07-28 16:04:02 GMT from United States)
Hello. I'm looking for a good lightweight Linux distro to run on an older PC (PIII, 128 or 256 MB of RAM). My preference is Debian based using apt-get and as much out of the box multimedia functionality as possible (MP3, Flash, etc.). I'm helping a guy at work with an old PC he got a hold of and he's never used Linux before. I tried the XFCE version of Mint (my favorite), but it was too heavy for this old machine. Any recommendations?
38 • Foxconn Fiasco (by Verndog on 2008-07-28 16:04:30 GMT from United States)
I was enjoying reading this weeks DWW until I got completely sidetracked with that Fox-con job. I foolishly started reading the many links. An hour later I'm back here!
There's one thing to say for sure. Linux has some very vocal enthusiasts. I think Foxconn will likely double check their Linux references in the BIOS from now on.
Whether this was intentional or not, it sure brought attention to Foxconn and a PR nightmare to boot! (no pun intended)
39 • BIOS (by scribe63 on 2008-07-28 16:04:53 GMT from United States)
Recently i have ran into issues related either to the BIOS or Harddisk when booting multiple operating systems on a single PC using mobile racks.
Motherboards:
ASUS P4PE
ASRock P4COMBO
They will boot windows xp with no problem, but with linux OS's (Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, CentOS, Debian) it becomes really troublesome, to the point some man or may not boot by chance.
I could be using and OS today, and if i take out the rack and use another OS in another rack, it may not boot. The GRUB on the MBR is not recognized at all.
So these days i stick with one OS Debian etch
Still i am not sure if this is a BIOS or Harddisk issue.
Anyone else experience this issue.
40 • Pulse Audio issues / Different Distros (by Whitt Madden on 2008-07-28 16:22:30 GMT from United States)
The latest release of Ubuntu has really disappointed me with their implementation of Pulse Audio. This may not be an issue for all, but for me if I am listening to music, and my wife wants to switch over to her side to check her email, the music pauses instead of continuing to play. Whenever I would switch back over to my side the music would either resume, or lock up the system causing me to reboot. Linux Mint carries this same Ubuntu 'feature'. However after being tired of random unexplained lockups with the newest Ubuntu release, I decided to switch over to openSuSe 11. I have not had any issues with Pulse Audio under openSuSe, in fact I haven't had any lockups or reboots whatsoever. I know that they get a lot of flack over their deal with MS, but I truly feel that they have created a great distro with 11.
On a side note:
I am very curious about Ulteo and I hope that we will see a review of this sometime in the near future.
41 • Cloud Model (by cadash on 2008-07-28 16:33:58 GMT from Argentina)
I think the main advantage of this model is that it allows you to use many computers and be able to access the latest changes to your files in all of them. However, I dont think it is meant to replace the way you currently use your coputer at the present with all the files stored locally. This way, whan you are on, lets say your work machine, you save all the files you made locally but also save them remotely. Then when you go back home and are able to access the latest version of each file and then if by some reason to make a travel you will be able to access all your work for a remote place. Although I work in an office, I can also do my work form anywhere as long as I have Internet access so this model makes a lot of sense to me. To me the idea is not to replace the way you work with computers but to add yet more options and a decentralized way to handle your work, being security issues the only concern....
42 • re:37 • Lightweight Linux Distro (by Caraibes on 2008-07-28 17:27:22 GMT from Dominican Republic)
I would recommend a netinst of Debian (either Stable or Testing... whatever suits you) then choose Fluxbox, PCManFM, Leafpad, Aterm, Opera, Emesene and Exaile, ePDFview... That should fit the bill...
Here's a good guide: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/432
But do your own thing according to what you like... (you could use OpenBox or IceWM instead of Fluxbox, but I just enjoy Fluxbox better...)
Here's also a great Fluxbox wiki: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fluxbox
43 • re:37 • Lightweight Linux Distro (bis) (by Caraibes on 2008-07-28 17:31:38 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Here's a post from my blog about it: http://free-las-terrenas.blogspot.com/2008/05/arch-like-debian-testing.html
44 • RE 42, 43... (by Blue Knight on 2008-07-28 18:02:15 GMT from France)
> "I would recommend a netinst of Debian (either Stable or Testing... whatever suits you) then choose Fluxbox, PCManFM, Leafpad, Aterm, Opera, Emesene and Exaile, ePDFview... That should fit the bill..."
Yes but in place of Aterm you can also use ROXTerm or LXTerminal (from the LXDE project) or Sakura...
> "you could use OpenBox or IceWM instead of Fluxbox"
Yes, OpenBox/LXDE... :-D
45 • re:37 • Lightweight Linux Distro (bis, bis) (by Caraibes on 2008-07-28 18:03:05 GMT from Dominican Republic)
As of playing mp3's, installing Picasa, Flash, Opera, Skype, and codecs, here's my sources.list:
(you need to open a terminal, log in as toot, edit (with Leafpad or Gedit) /etc/apt/sources.list)
-My sources.list:
http://free-las-terrenas.blogspot.com/
46 • Lightweight Linux Distro (by drizake on 2008-07-28 18:24:10 GMT from United States)
Thanks, Caraibes! I'll try it out when I get home. :)
47 • RE: 32, Is This Personal? What did Steve do to you? (by Eddie Wilson on 2008-07-28 18:24:34 GMT from United States)
"TALENT ON LOAN FROM GOD", What kind of stupid statement is that? You are upset because he called window managers operating systems. Trust me that was just a slight slip. Everything else you stated is just your personal opinion. Download the thing and try it out and see how fast it boots, and then write your own review. If you have a problem with the distro then take it up with NimbleX. Just because a person writes a review and makes a slight mistake does not give you the right to start flaming like an idiot. Its alright to point out a mistake or to have a different opinion but when you start name calling then that turns you into a hairbrained simpleton.
48 • Foxconn "we are working on it" (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 18:34:30 GMT from United States)
http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/foxconn-says-acpi-issues-are-amis-fault-is-having-them-repair-the-code/
49 • OS's vs WM's (by YoMero on 2008-07-28 18:44:31 GMT from United States)
"Booting into KDM however, gives you a wide selection of 8 operating systems. You have a choice of E16 (enlightenment), EDE, Enlightenment, Fluxbox, IceWM, KDE, Openbox, and TWM."
LOL, I didn't know all of the above were 'operating systems'... I thought they were windows managers but now I know better =P
Cheers,
50 • RE: 49, At least you laughed about it. (by Eddie Wilson on 2008-07-28 18:58:20 GMT from United States)
Yes is was a funny mistake. One I'm sure Steve will take a lot of ribbing over. At least you didn't insult him because of it. You are right. They are windows managers. LOL.
51 • Why Beranger Sucks (by James P. Collins on 2008-07-28 19:30:36 GMT from United States)
1. Because he is a whiney, petite, frustrated ZERO with nothing better to do than piss and moan about sources.
2 See 1.
What has beranger ever contributed to the FOSS movement besides worthless opinions and cynicism?
Nothing.
I wonder which distro will fail to provide up-to-date sources next week?
Looking forward to ignoring more of beranger's whining then, too.
52 • Foxconn is just plain and simple garbage (by MacLone on 2008-07-28 19:32:55 GMT from Mexico)
I am a computer repair/assembler and have to say Foxconn does nothing intentionally, they do it because they suck...and i mean SUCK! plain and simple...They are even worst than PC-chips and Biostar together. Foxconn must keep doing cables and that's it, no more.
53 • Review: NimbleX 2008 (by Yail on 2008-07-28 19:35:30 GMT from Dominican Republic)
After hearing the good review of NimbleX and the custom CD creation I followed the link to NimbleX's site (http://www.nimblex.net/) using Opera 9.24 only to find the following popup message:
"This site has been found on Opera's blacklist of suspected fraud sites. Exchanging sensitive or confidential information with this site could put you at risk for identity theft and/or financial fraud"
54 • @51 Why beranger sucks (by yoshimitsu on 2008-07-28 19:36:23 GMT from United States)
Agreed, but at least he doesn't end his posts with "keep your d*ck on the ice"
I too anxiously await to find out what distro fails to offer source code next.
55 • @ 53 (by Alan on 2008-07-28 19:43:33 GMT from United Kingdom)
Works ok using Opera 9.20 (running MCN Live cd).
56 • Re. 55. (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 19:54:07 GMT from Canada)
The MCN Live CD is probably 2 years old. Probably, that's why it doesn't have that message.
By the way, MCN is only of the best live CDs I have tried.
57 • RE 51, 54 (by Volore on 2008-07-28 20:31:58 GMT from France)
Guys, you may not agree with everything he says but if you don't understand or don't accept this problem about the GPL and its compliance, report to the sources, you are pathetic...........................
58 • Re 14 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 20:47:53 GMT from United States)
"Maybe do you think this is not important? Sorry to disappoint you but it IS
a problem.
Open source is about sources and a distro which violates
GPL, sorry "Anonymous" but again it's a problem!"
I did not say
whether I think it is important or not. In my opinion, such discussion (er,
flame war material) doesn't belong here. What I did say, however, is that
his constant bitching is getting annoying. It's become a regular
occurrence. Is the DWW forum honestly the proper place to complain about
this crap? I think not. Why not send a message to the FSF's legal team?
That way there might just be a chance for these problems to be fixed instead
of pointless arguing (by people who aren't lawyers, at that) over legal
issues. Let the FSF do their job. Straight from the GPL
FAQ:
-----
"What should I do if I discover a possible violation of the GPL?
You should report it. First, check the facts as best you can. Then tell the publisher or copyright holder of the specific GPL-covered program. If that is the Free Software Foundation, write to <license-violation@gnu.org>. Otherwise, the program's maintainer may be the copyright holder, or else could tell you how to contact the copyright holder, so report it to the maintainer."
-----
Forward all complaints there, because they're the guys who actually want to hear it.
59 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 21:34:03 GMT from France)
"Guys, you may not agree with everything he says but if you don't understand or don't accept this problem about the GPL and its compliance, report to the sources, you are pathetic..........................."
Everything he says ? But he says only ONE thing ! Every DWW ! And on all the forums he find, i guess ... HE is pathetic !!!
Perhaps, it would be better for his mind health to find a lawyer and attack thoses distros... But who cares about all thoses confidentials distros that only distrowatch readers know.. Nowadays, every geek can build his own distro ... and if he wants to share this work... What's the problem ? The day he will be a space tourist, be sure, we will ask about sources !
Even if I agree that GPL is important, it does'nt need Ayathollahs !
60 • Ref# 57 -- by Volore -- RETART (by John Grub on 2008-07-28 21:47:57 GMT from United States)
Maybe we DO understand his position and GPL and don't give a DAMN! How does that grab you!
61 • @59 (by Volore on 2008-07-28 22:12:43 GMT from France)
Ayatollahs? My god! LOL
> "if he wants to share this work... What's the problem ?"
No problem but if you distribute something under the GPL you MUST provide sources! If not, you violate the license!
There is no escape, we can not take just what we like and reject the rest. Either we accept the GPL and we use it or not, and if so, "we will look elsewhere"...
Perhaps this is too difficult to understand? :P
P.S.= When someone asks you to respect something, you treat him also of "Ayatollah"? I would not like to be in a car with you, to take just this example...
62 • GPL (by john frey on 2008-07-28 22:16:17 GMT from Canada)
I for one am interested in hearing about distro's that violate the GPL. You can bet your ass that I will not download, test or bug report a distro that is not in compliance. Anyone else who respects the GPL and what it has done for us will do the same.
You are not required to respect the GPL if you use GPL'd software. So those of you who don't respect it can use it and disrespect it all you want. Although you should know that when you post your disrespect here you sound like an ass. Those who distribute the software ARE required to comply even if they don't respect it.
It is not sufficient to report the violation to the distributor if they then choose to go on violating. Beranger has documented that in the past. Neither is it sufficient to just report it to the copyright holder. I, for one, don't want to be using a distro and find out 3 years down the road that it has been ignoring the license. I certainly hope Beranger is doing both those things.
Making violations of the license public is the quickest way to get compliance if other methods fail.
It is not onerous to comply. The distributor needs the sources to compile their distro so they are in possession of the sources. The distributor has a web server set up to distribute the binaries so they can put the sources their as well. Yes it takes some extra work. Not much compared to creating all the GPL'd software from scratch which is what the distributor would have to do if there was no GPL.
63 • @ 9 KDE 4.1 (by Denizen on 2008-07-28 22:21:57 GMT from United Kingdom)
quote : "(occasionally I can crash plasma on log out) and pretty much on a par with 3.5 functionality-wise (I'm missing a few things like proper ark integration) "
cool, but not really good enough to be 'ready' then eh?
(Im not trolling BTW! - I wish KDE4 was 'ready'. Nowhere near IMO)
64 • Re 62 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 22:30:38 GMT from United States)
"I for one am interested in hearing about distro's that violate the GPL."
Why not start a new site then--LicenseWatch?
65 • Cloud computing (by john frey on 2008-07-28 22:36:15 GMT from Canada)
I share some of the same dislike for cloud computing that others have mentioned, insecurity, network reliance, loss of control.
At the same time I see there could definitely be a place for something like this in the future. A music/news/movie service could be accessed from multiple devices, anywhere, with a consistent interface. Same thing with personal documents and creations. The big advance of the information age is all the information we have on demand. Making it more ubiquitous will be the goal of companies everywhere. It is silly to have all the information in the world at hand and not have access to personally created media. Just having access is not good enough, we need to be able to change and add to the personal media at a whim.
With better and faster net connections something like this will come. There are already many people using computers that have no idea where the local machine ends and the net begins. They don't care, they will be glad to do what they do on any computer or mobile device at any time.
66 • Nimblex (by Anonymous on 2008-07-28 23:05:39 GMT from United States)
Sounds like one of the bad distros that we were talking about last week with the sorry install routines, bad documentation etc. It doesn't even splash the login info and it even uses root.
I've first hand seen it toast a mutiboot vm machine putting a fat32 partition on top of a NTFS partition when you've gone to the trouble to set up a place and tell it to use it. It ignores it and does what it wants anyway. Leaving you with a machine that won't get on the net to find any way out. The HD installer shouldn't even be concdered and installer and should've been disabled until it is fixed.
67 • Lightweight distros (by 1369ic on 2008-07-28 23:05:49 GMT from United States)
Re: #37. I use Zenwalk and it's a good choice. Based on Slackware, so it's fast, but it has a lot of extras that make it easy (a control panel, Zenwalk-specific tools, etc.). It uses XFCE and gives you one app for each job. Very nice. It uses netpkg, which is roughly equivalent to apt-get. It's also nice that it's a one-CD download, and not even a full CD.
Vector is another Slack-derived distro with lots of extra tools. It's very fast.
Another light distro I tried recently is AntiX. It's based on Mepis, which is, of course, based on Debian. It has the Mepis utilities, which is a big plus. I'm a Fluxbox and Rox-Filer user, so I was right at home on the desktop, but it might look a little sparse to a newbie.
68 • you need to be GPL compliant and add GNU/Linux to your disto name (by RMS at 2008-07-29 05:15:39 GMT from United States)
you need to be GPL compliant and add GNU/Linux to your disto name
RMS
69 • Font size after 58 (by Muhammad Fahd Waseem on 2008-07-29 05:44:16 GMT from Pakistan)
Is it just me, or has the font size on this comments list actually decreased after post number 58?
70 • Re: 69 Font Size (by Soloact on 2008-07-29 05:57:34 GMT from United States)
It's because someone missed the /font tag .
71 • KDE 4 (by JohnnyNumberFive on 2008-07-29 06:04:36 GMT from United States)
OpenSUSE did a fine job with KDE 4. If they can do it, then I think that others can. I think that with KDE 4.1, more issues will be attended to and KDE users will be able to go with the flow of the KDE team.
72 • @ 56 (by Alan UK on 2008-07-29 06:34:51 GMT from United Kingdom)
I agree, MCN is one of the best live distros. I'm using MCN Delft which is about a year old I think. Nothing wrong with that - if it works, then I'm happy. My pc was acting a bit funny (Ubuntu 7.04) so I grabed a live cd.
Of all the live distros I've got lying about, I always seem to use MCN live or Slitaz.
Isn't choice wonderful?
73 • @69 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-07-29 07:18:24 GMT from Canada)
It's because the comments aren't protected at all, they just wind up as one big stream of HTML, so if one comment opens a tag and doesn't close it, it applies to the entire rest of the page. Only the admins can fix it then (they usually do, a few hours later).
74 • RE 35 : I just wanted to know whether it was only a formal problem (by dbrion on 2008-07-29 07:46:17 GMT from France)
("open source is about sources") This is more a worthless slogan than an opinion.
or a matter of respect w/r to the authors of the Open Source: this is an ethical (and perhaps a long term strategical, if authors get fed up their wishes are ignored ) problem
or a matter of preservation (I force my colleagues to download my sources, in case I should disappear).
or of maintenance (bunches of skilled enthusiasts freely detecting and reporting the bugs, if any).
or any rational reason I do not know -and would be happy to know-.
If there are serious reasons, I do not know why an algebrecally_added value go between (a "GNUlinux" distribution) should not be known as non respecting the GPL. If it is just a matter of puns, signalling it is a waste of time.
75 • not a formality (by john frey on 2008-07-29 08:52:41 GMT from Canada)
Well it's a slogan but worthless?
When the GPL v.2 was released the internet was nowhere near what it is today. getting sources was not just a matter of downloading on a broadband connection. Possibly everyone providing sources is too much but that's what the license says. I recall reading that GPL v.3 has done something about easing the requirements but it's too late for me to start looking.
By the way, what's a superficial lapalissade? I'm not surprised your fellow countryman had difficulty understanding what you wrote. It's not his English skills that caused him difficulty;)
76 • suite 79/78/77 was 76 answer (and my keyboard is shaky) (by dbrion
on 2008-07-29 09:17:42 GMT from France)
a truism (Mr de Lapalisse was a valiant soldier, who fought courgeously
until ... 15 minutes before he died and it was sung as "a quarter of an hour
before his death, he was still living") which does not convey any more
information than "OpenSource is about sources" (if it were about rice
cooking, this would be an information).
I am just asking why sources
should be made public, with better reasons than truisms (ethical, technical,
any reasons other than OpenSource is about sources)
Just serious
reasons... (else, some people would be cynical enough to find opening
sources is just a weird tradition, and a vast majority of "linuxers" is just
interested in downloading and knowing whether IT WORKS -this seems a short
term nonanalysis-).
BTW, If you are not happy with my English, just
ask me to post in French , it is faster for me..
77 • RE 76 (by dbrion on 2008-07-29 09:33:32 GMT from
France)
A lapalissade is a truism (Mr de Lapalisse was a hero who fought with great
energy, even 1/4hr before he died and he is sung as "a quarter of an hour
before his death, he was sitill living..." which does not convey any
information in to-days speech..
Neither does "Open Source is about
source " convey any convincing information.
I just was asking if
there were rational reasons to open the source and make it available...
It would not hurt anyone to remind these reasons (I know they exist), as the
vast majority of "linuxers" is just interested in downloading and knowing
whether IT WORKS... this is a very short term nonanalysis.
BTW: if you
are very unhappy with my "English", I would be more comfortable posting in
French ...and in Europe, a majority of people reads his native language,
plus the language of his neighbors.....
78 • RE 74 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-29 11:36:16 GMT from
France)
No matter your "slogan", "lapalissade", formal or other things.... There is no questions to
ask.
If you distribute something under GPL you must respect GPL and its rules. This
seems obvious... If you don't respect it, don't use it! There is nothing difficult here and no
questions.
It's also like the "respect of text", like if a musician who plays a piece of
Bach, or Beethoven or any other composer you may prefer, doesn't respect the partition and
change the notes or rhythms... No, if he/she wants to play this piece he/her respects it, if
not, he/her plays another piece, or compose him/herself (and here too there are composition
rules to follow...)
Outside the computer there are also "licenses", "rules" to comply.
If you do not want to respect them, do something else ... e.g If you do not want to respect the
highway code, don't drive... There is no question to ask if it's ethical, slogan or something,
you respect.
If you use the GPL you MUST respect the GPL and its rules! Again
there is no questions to ask. Final point!
79 • RE 74 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-29 12:36:32 GMT from
France)
No matter your "slogan", "lapalissade" or other things....
The GPL has some value, true?
So if you distribute something under GPL you must respect GPL and its rules. This seems
obvious... If you don't respect it, don't use it! There is nothing difficult here and no
questions to ask.
It's also like the "respect of text", like if a musician who plays a
piece of Bach, or Beethoven or any other composer you may prefer, doesn't respect the partition
and change some notes or rhythms... No, if he/she wants to play this piece he/her respects it,
if not, he/her plays another piece, or compose him/herself (and here too there are composition
rules to follow...)
Outside the computer there are also "licenses", "rules" to comply.
If you do not want to respect them, do something else ... e.g If you do not want to respect the
highway code do not drive... There is no question to ask if it's ethical or something, you
respect. That's all.
If you use the GPL you MUST respect the GPL and its rules! No
questions.
(You can try to make it the change, if you can/want... :D)
80 • No subject (by Dick Cheney on 2008-07-29 13:06:31 GMT from United
States)
I can think of a reason why providing sources is important. Suppose some scumbag works for a
company, let's call that hypothetical company Microsoft.
The scumbag takes GPL'd
software and modifies it. He then distributes the binary with source to only one company,
Microsoft. Microsoft includes the modified GPL software in its OS hypothetically called
Windows.
Then someone asks for the source for the scumbag's software that was added to
Windows. Microsoft has no obligation to provide it. The scumbag is no longer distributing his
software. No obligation to provide sources, and all of a sudden GPL'd software is part of a
closed system.
The only way to guarantee the software really is free is to require that
the distributor of binaries always makes the sources available. You cannot impose restrictions
on anyone other than the one distributing the software.
81 • RE #37 Lightweight Linux Distro (by Anonymous on 2008-07-29 15:03:58 GMT from Germany)
RE #37
"Hello. I'm looking for a good lightweight Linux distro to run on an older PC (PIII, 128 or 256 MB of RAM). My preference is Debian based using apt-get and as much out of the box multimedia functionality as possible (MP3, Flash, etc.). I'm helping a guy at work with an old PC he got a hold of and he's never used Linux before. I tried the XFCE version of Mint (my favorite), but it was too heavy for this old machine. Any recommendations?"
Try SAM-Linux http://www.sam-linux.org/
and Debris http://debrislinux.org/
82 • Which watch is watched (by Timex on 2008-07-29 15:10:55 GMT from United States)
I'm sorry, I thought this site was named DISTROWATCH and not GPLWATCH !
83 • RE 79 (by dbrion on 2008-07-29 15:13:06 GMT from France)
"The GPL has some value, true? "
Which one?
Whence does this value come from?
From the quality (estimated in an objective way) of the software, or from mere affirmations?
Can you prove it? (Dick Cheeney could!!!)
In the real world, some absurd laws exist, and questioning about their value seems more interesting than following them blindly....
If a law is a good law, I would be glad to know *why*.
Telling one must distibute the sources because it is a matter of preservation,(cf 81), or a matter of respect towards the authors (else, 99.99999% of a distr. would not exist) or *any* rational reason is much more convincing than saying
"A law is a law (is a law)+" or
"OpenSource is about sources"....
As a vast majority is only interested in downloading, CD burning and knowing whether a new distr works, reminding *why* some principles exist (not slogans, but their origin) would not hurt....
84 • re:81 (by susan on 2008-07-29 15:16:04 GMT from United States)
I'd like to see what AntiX could do for you. I've had real good luck with it on older computers, yet it's still as powerful as Mepis. It would seem to meet your wishes, but I don't think I've tested on that little of RAM.
If AnitX is still too heavy, give Puppy a whirl - which can be made to meet your requirements fairly easily I think. It's package management is similar in operation to APT.
85 • Com 84 Antix might work...as RAM is concerned (by dbrion on 2008-07-29 16:00:10 GMT from France)
As qemu, by default, offers 128M RAM, Antix might work (as much as RAM is concerned) . So would Austrumi (perhaps not the latest version -I did not test-, but the 2007 version worked under qemu ... and having the latest GNUlinux is not thaat important for old computers : as RAM increases, the minimalist distributions have too increasing RAM needs. Therefore, perhaps older versions might work ...better, w/r RAM.
86 • RE: The whole GPL debate (by A Distro Maintainer on 2008-07-29 16:27:23 GMT from United States)
Here's my take on the whole GPL issue.
I generally have mixed feelings with regard to the "freedom to tinker" argument. In my opinion, this is vastly overhyped -- at least by those people who say "freedom" is the best reason to use Linux -- most users frankly don't want or need to go into the source code and make modifications to the software. This isn't to say "freedom" is not important; it's just the right argument for most people. It's kind of like telling people to shop locally in spite of Wal-Mart's better selection and lower prices because of corporate greed and worker's rights -- you're trying to sell philosophy over pragmatism.
However, I can't discount the "freedom" of open-source completely, because I happen to be a distro developer (I'm not posting which one, since it's mentioned in this DWW and I don't want to make this a marketing plug, but you can guess). Admittedly, my own motivation is more a pragmatic one. I would gladly use a proprietary operating system if it "just worked" the way I wanted it to, but since none do, I make my own. I started using Linux because it worked better. However, were it not for my freedom to tinker, I could never have done what I did next: Developed it further to better fit my needs.
I've heard it argued that civil rights exist to protect not so much the majority as the minority; I see open source (or "free software," or whatever you call it) the same way. Most users do not modify their software, true, but it is a fallacy to think *all* users are that way. If my original "base" distribution had not provided source, I would never have created my own product; likewise, someone may someday want to use my product to develop their own.
The whole "respect" argument is bunk. Like someone wisely observed earlier, you don't have to *respect* the GPL, any more than you have to respect proprietary EULA's, or real-world laws. (And especially here in the U.S., the latter can be quite difficult at times...) But you'd better *follow* them. Those are the rules of the game, and if you break them, there will be consequences.
I don't force users to download my sources. There's several gigabytes of code there, and frankly that's a lot to download and store, particularly if you don't need it. Honestly I don't think anyone ever *has* downloaded my source, but it's there. And if there's anything missing, I take that seriously (besides, my FTP mirror is basically also my "live backup" -- if my hard disk crashes, or if for whatever reason I need my own code and I can't get to my development machine, at least I can get it from my own public site).
Anyway, having said all that, let's just stop wasting our time with this whole "GPL snitching" debate. Tell whatsitsname's developers to put up the source, and if they don't behave, report their asses to the FSF already and let the professional zealots, and possibly their lawyers, take it from there.
Oh, and you'll probably guess my nomination in response to #37.
87 • Re: Sources (by Alan UK on 2008-07-29 16:39:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
How about creating a site just to host sources? If this is already the case, I'll eat my hard drive...:-)
88 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-07-29 17:10:46 GMT from Germany)
If this is already the case, I'll eat my hard drive...:-)
Make sure you backup the data before you do that.
89 • GPL and source code availability (by ezsit on 2008-07-29 18:36:31 GMT from United States)
As far as I know, the sources do not have to be hosted by the distributor of the binaries as long as the binaries are made from existing, accessible source code.
This applies to distributions that do not change the source code and merely "respin" the sources available from a larger distro, such as Ubuntu-based distros like Ultimate and 100% compatible Slackware derived distros like Absolute. The distributors of such distributions merely can direct their users upstream for the sources and that is perfectly fine according to the FSF and the GPL.
90 • 90 (by Dick Cheney on 2008-07-29 18:45:02 GMT from United States)
That is not correct. Anyone distributing GPL software has to provide sources. It does not have to be done over the internet.
You can only impose restrictions on the one distributing the software. That is why you can't just point to someone else; if that person stops providing the source, the source is no longer available.
91 • RE 90 : I suppose it is a preservation argument. (by dbrion on 2008-07-29 19:05:20 GMT from France)
It would have been meant so that anyone could rebuild his favourite distro, even if its (her) author died/did something else, the distro upstream was sued and some original developpers had given up maintaining (tons of versions of) their applications { the latter point may happen with some applications the originals of which, carefully kept, are easier to be found at the Debian/Gentoo repositories}....
92 • @76 (by john frey on 2008-07-29 20:26:30 GMT from Canada)
Hi dbrion,
Thanks for the description of lapalissade, 15 minutes before my death I should still be living too:) I'm going to add that word to my vocabulary.
You are right there is a benefit to listing the benefits of the GPL beyond ethical or legal reasons. It's good to see we have been getting some of that here. I don't need to be reminded that there are plenty of stupid laws. Following stupid laws just because they are the law is for drones and we are thinking people not drones. N'est pas?
Unfortunately for both of us my French skills are much less than your English skills. I admire your persistence with a language that is not so familiar to you. Sometimes I wonder if you are being confusing on purpose and I know that you can be more clear when you make the effort.
I have to say I am not an Open Source fan and I know little of the OSI and their goals other than they are an attempt to make Free Software more palatable to business. For some reason business and Freedom are not very compatible. The GNU Public License is a Free Software License and so when I answer questions here I am talking about Free Software not Open Source software. Sometimes what I say may apply to both but that is coincidental.
I notice you are specifically asking about Open Source. I don't really have much input regarding that as I learning about that is a waste of time and resources for me. I prefer to talk about free software, copyleft and the GPL.
93 • No subject (by Mandriva on 2008-07-29 21:25:13 GMT from Germany)
Mandriva 2009 beta 1 is out there waiting for you.
It features KDE 4.1 final release.
Grab it while it's hot!
94 • Mandriva 10! (by Anonymous on 2008-07-29 21:28:58 GMT from Canada)
Mandriva is 10! Can't wait for the next 10...
95 • RE 89 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-29 21:32:24 GMT from France)
Wrong!
"Section three of the license requires that programs distributed as pre-compiled binaries are [B]accompanied by a copy of the source code, a written offer to distribute the source code via the same mechanism as the pre-compiled binary or the written offer to obtain the source code that you got when you received the pre-compiled binary under the GPL[/B]."
"Many distributors of GPL'ed programs bundle the source code with the executables. An alternative method of satisfying the copyleft is to provide a written offer to provide the source code on a physical medium (such as a CD) upon request. In practice, many GPL'ed programs are distributed over the Internet, and the source code is made available over FTP. For Internet distribution, this complies with the license."
"Conversely, [B]if one distributes copies of the work without abiding by the terms of the GPL (for instance, by keeping the source code secret), he or she can be sued by the original author under copyright law.[/B]"
This "applies only when a person seeks to redistribute the program. One is allowed to make private modified versions, without any obligation to divulge the modifications as long as the modified software is not distributed to anyone else."
So to make a summary, you must provide the sources "via the same mechanism", therefore on the same server that your distrib. You can also "provide the source code on a physical medium (such as a CD)"...
96 • RE 79 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-29 21:52:27 GMT from France)
dbrion, yes "some absurd laws exist, and questioning about their value seems more interesting than following them blindly...".
I'm really sorry but the law is the law, nobody can escape (fortunately or unfortunately, as you want) and if you violate the law... you risk some problems, even if it's an "absurd" law.
If you disagree with a law or if you find a law "absurd", perhaps a good thing would be to try to modify / change it... if you can.
> "Can you prove it?"
Why?
I don't make the GPL, I do not take part in its creation but if I distributes e.g a distrib I must abide by it. As a french citizen you don't escape the laws of your country, even if some are absurd! If you violate a law, even absurd, you will be prosecuted...
97 • Foxcon (by poindexter on 2008-07-29 21:55:33 GMT from Australia)
Interesting that a retailer is extolling virtues of Debian on Asus boards
http://www.shoppingsquare.com.au/p_3526__ASUS_M2NMXSEPLUS
98 • Yes I know Mandriva 2009.0 Beta 1 is announced (by Dr. W T Zhu on 2008-07-30 02:38:05 GMT from China)
But even the main mirror server in North America is not ready yet:
ftp://carroll.cac.psu.edu/pub/linux/distributions/mandrivalinux/devel/iso/2009.0/beta1/
So, there is a difference between "announced" and "available". As it's inappropriate to direct all download links to Mandriva's top level mirror servers in the Europe, I have to delay putting up the news post until it is generally available worldwide.
99 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-07-30 02:49:10 GMT from Canada)
Here Mandriva 2009 beta 1 is available ftp://distrib-coffee.ipsl.jussieu.fr/pub/linux/MandrivaLinux/devel/iso/2009.0/beta1/
100 • re93.....Grab it while it's hot! (by Mandriva NOT hot for me! on 2008-07-30 03:11:37 GMT from Australia)
93 • No subject (by Mandriva on 2008-07-29 21:25:13 GMT from Germany)
Mandriva 2009 beta 1 is out there waiting for you.
It features KDE 4.1 final release.
Grab it while it's hot!
Acer 1644 wlmi with intel 915 GM card and LGPhilipsLCD (LP154W01-TLA2) screen has been having serious display issues since Mnd 2008 and still not fixed! Oversized fonts (BIG FONT SYNDROME) is a well documented bug that needs to be fixed before I can see if it is "hot"!!! When Fedora 7, 8 and 9 (Gnome) and openSUSE 10.3/11.0 (i.e. since the new "intel" driver came into use) work perfectly with this same display, I will consider any distro (including Mandriva and Ubuntu/ Debian & derivatives) that does not work as undeserving any praise. Having a working and correctly configured display screen is the minimum I expect from any distro or OS.
Tip for Mandriva and Ubuntu/Debian Xorg Devs -----> Look at the Fedora and openSUSE patches and implement a working solution for your distro!
IMHO, anytime someone says Mandriva or Ubuntu/Debian is "hot', I will say it is just hot air!! :-)
101 • Puppy Linux (by JAGUAR on 2008-07-30 03:27:08 GMT from United States)
Here's the link to the next Alpha release...!
http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/puppylinux/test/puppy-4.1alpha5/
102 • re 100 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-30 04:01:08 GMT from Canada)
I have had issues with Fedora 9 (sound did not work, I had to remove pulse and go with alsa) and some other minor stuff. OpenSuse was extremely slow on my machine (especially Yast). On the other hand Mandriva detected and configured everything perfectly and is very snappy. So it is hot for me.
103 • KDE4+openSUSE (by Anonymous on 2008-07-30 06:23:23 GMT from Denmark)
I downloaded the KDE4 Live cd with KDE4.1 final which use openSUSE11 and i have to say im extremely happy with how well everything is working! Only ubuntu up to this point have been working flawless on my machine (out of 20 different distros i have been trying) but opensuse11 worked OOTB and is just way more professional looking and the feeling of using KDE4.1 without any problems at all is great!
So the boot order for now is:
1.openSUSE11 with KDE4.1
2.ArchLinux with gnome
104 • RE 96 : law practice East of the Pecos (by dbrion on 2008-07-30 06:40:34 GMT from France)
" As a french citizen you don't escape the laws of your country, even if some are absurd! If you violate a law, even absurd, you will be prosecuted...
"
Quels clichés grandiloquents... et non fondés sur des faits.
For example, 100 French citizen (not superficially writing clichés sheep, people knowing what they were talking about) recently told a French court they had violated DRM laws and wanted to be jailed therefore.....
And the court declared itself incompetent.....
Are you more law-knowing than a French court?
OTH, knowing *why* a law/the GPL is good (or is not) can lead to rational decisions.
105 • Re 102."So it is hot for me"..Well, just because x distro works on your hdwre (by Don't ASSUME!.... on 2008-07-30 07:04:54 GMT from Australia)
....It will be the case with other person's hardware, as my case just proves the point. Lunchpad has a very long list of people with similar issues, and on varying hardware. Xorg has a bug report for my particular screen but looks like their promised fix has not delivered (or has not been implemented).
OpenSuse was extremely slow on my machine (especially Yast)
As I use openSUSE, Yast is a collection of tools/utilities and have not noticed it to be "slow" in launching. Maybe you mean the software utilities? The software utilities have seen a lot of attention in openSUSE 11.0 and are much improved, especially speed wise, and complaining about that is to be ignorant of the current status. I use 10.3 and I am aware of some of the speed enhancements in 11.0 but I will stick with what I have until it is no longer supported (Oct 2009) or try my luck with 11.1 (which will be the base for SLED 11.0 and should be a solid and refined edition).
Since openSUSE and Fedora are cutting edge distros (i.e. they play a big part in Linux development), they do tend to launch with less than perfect status but if one gives them a month or two before installing, most issues will be resolved after updating (that has been my experience with openSUSE 10.2/10.3).
guten Tag
106 • hello inkscape artists out there! (by arno911 on 2008-07-30 08:31:11 GMT from Germany)
sidux is having its annual wallpaper contest. click on my name to see the rules. 10 days left!
b.r.
arno911
107 • re 100 and 105 Mandriva (by Anonymous on 2008-07-30 12:34:17 GMT from Germany)
When I said Mandriva is hot I spoke figuratively as if the OS has just been forged. I meant it was fresh. I don't think Mandriva is hot, I think it is really really cool.
Why when someone says something nice about one distro or another there is always someone very smart, much smarter than you've ever been, telling you that this or that distro is better? If OpenSuse and Fedora work better for you on your hardware that means they are better and if Mandriva works better for me on my hardware that's just an exception.
108 • No subject (by capricornus on 2008-07-30 13:00:33 GMT from Belgium)
ASUS M2N-MX-SE-PLUS
the only MB I ever tried to install that refused to enter into BIOS and that did terrible things when I tried to run some distro on it. I send it back.
109 • Re:98 (by Anon on 2008-07-30 13:18:04 GMT from United Kingdom)
More than likely a problem with mirrors themselves rather than a combination of Mandriva's poor attitude towards working with the mirror maintainers and lack of patience. They do the exact same when it comes to final releases.
/sarcasm
110 • Qu 109 Could you give facts of (by dbrion on 2008-07-30 15:32:05 GMT from France)
"Mandriva's poor attitude towards working with the mirror maintainers"
(written mails showing their 'poor attitude', photos....)
Could you also
*prove*
" They do the exact same when it comes to final releases" (any one can tell anything about xxxx's big sins, zzz going to bankrupcy for poor economical model (a year after, it gets ridiculous)....
Facts and proofs would not deserve sarcasms, Monsieur l'Ânon0....
111 • @100 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-07-30 15:50:00 GMT from Canada)
No, here's a tip for you: you're the only person reporting this problem. So please report it correctly: open a bug report at http://qa.mandriva.com/ , with full details - including screenshots, X.org logs, the DPI reported by the KDE font configuration tool and by xdpyinfo, and the physical size of your screen - and we will investigate it. Trolling through other distributions' packages and applying patches at random to see if they happen to fix some vague problem reported in the wrong place is not a sensible way to develop a distribution. Report the problem correctly, and it will be addressed correctly.
If you've already filed a bug, apologies - please give me the URL.
112 • Re:110 (by Anon on 2008-07-30 16:02:12 GMT from United Kingdom)
What the hell are you smoking? Seriously what is all this about:
"(any one can tell anything about xxxx's big sins, zzz going to bankrupcy for poor economical model (a year after, it gets ridiculous)...."
113 • RE 112 Excellent Rothmans.... (by D brion on 2008-07-30 16:41:28 GMT from France)
"What the hell are you smoking? Seriously what is all this about:
"
And I refer to
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070326&mode=67
post 24
quote
":24 • Open letter (by Anon on 2007-03-26 13:29:26 GMT from United Kingdom)
(..)"
Bancilhon should be questioning his management, asking why are we not good enough, whay are we not the best? But no, he demonstrates the Mandriva management's inabilty to manage,"
It was very fashionable to bash without many arguments the anti PR, unmanaged, poorly uploading its mirrors... Seems to have become a repetitive, unconvincing task for Ânons....
And, if instead of finding serious proofs (that would be innovating) , you ask "what did you drink", you will be answered "cool Badoit".... o Monsieur l'Ânon.
114 • Re:113 (by Anon on 2008-07-30 18:01:03 GMT from United Kingdom)
Uh-huh, and?
Seriously, if I were to take the fact that
You are from France; and
you are trying to counter an argument against Mandriva, a French company
does that automatically entitle me to make the assumption that you are a Mandriva fanboy?
Here's some friendly advice, you might find people more receptive to your opinion when you don't spout prejudicial statements about their character. Looking at previous comments it seems that you, sorry a person signing their comments "dbrion", have a habit of upsetting people here. Therefore I think I will be doing the sensible think and not acknowledging the any comments made by "dbrion" in the future.
That is all I have to say on the matter.
115 • re Dbrion (by masher23 on 2008-07-30 19:05:46 GMT from Australia)
why dont you go to french sites and bore them with your complaining and winging instead of comming to dww to complain i think enough people are totally sick of you.
116 • RE 114, 115 (by Blue Knight on 2008-07-30 20:40:17 GMT from France)
Hey, I am not always agree with him, sometimes he seems a little "special"... but why this intransigence? Everyone has the right to express himself, regardless what he has to say or his opinion ... even if it does not correspond to yours or if you hate him... ;-)
Souffrez messieurs, mesdames, que nous nous exprimions même si nous sommes en désaccord avec vous et si nous vous faisons chier. (mes excuses pour la vulgarité) :-D
117 • Question for Adam of Mandriva... (by wam on 2008-07-30 23:45:21 GMT from United States)
So far so good on your KDE 4.1 Beta 1......... Adam can i ask you a question?...... Im sure its been asked before, but why dont you have the default kernel that looks at least 2 gigs of ram without having to download it when the OS is installed. The default kernel only sees 800 megs of my 2 gigs of ram. 99% of other distros ive tried already see it. I know the live cd would be much faster also if it seen all of the ram. Thanks.
118 • re 117 (by I'm not Adam on 2008-07-31 01:55:42 GMT from Canada)
Installing from the live CD is not what you want. The live CD is for evaluation purposes. It is good to check if your harware will be properly detected in case you install on the hard drive.
If you want to do a nice, solid installation you want to use the DVD (or three CDs) installer. it will detect your 2Gb of RAM without any problems.
119 • @117 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-07-31 02:15:45 GMT from Canada)
There's a reason for that, but it was actually supposed to change for 2009 - I'll have to look into that, I thought it had been switched already.
118, installing from the live CD is certainly supported and intended to be a decent method, though some people do prefer to install from Free / PWP.
120 • re 111..."Upstream X.org git master now has a better fix for the issue" (by Promises meant to be broken on 2008-07-31 03:36:44 GMT from Australia)
111 • @100 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-07-30 15:50:00 GMT from Canada)
No, here's a tip for you: you're the only person reporting this problem. So please report it correctly: open a bug report at http://qa.mandriva.com/ , with full details - including screenshots, X.org logs, the DPI reported by the KDE font configuration tool and by xdpyinfo, and the physical size of your screen - and we will investigate it. Trolling through other distributions' packages and applying patches at random to see if they happen to fix some vague problem reported in the wrong place is not a sensible way to develop a distribution. Report the problem correctly, and it will be addressed correctly.
I am sure I am NOT the only one reporting this problem - 100%!!! You are in denial!
The problem (on the hardware that has issues) with Mandriva is that the setup greeter window will stop/discourage any normal (non-technical) user from ever seeing what is beyond the barrier of the GIANT FONTS, where only one or two words a readable.
If you've already filed a bug, apologies - please give me the URL.
I don't need to do that as there are bug reports all over the place (and this issue was certainly disscussed on Mandriva Forums when 2008 came out!), and on varying hardware.
And now I will remind you of what you promised to do about 4 months ago:
144 • @133 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-03-26 19:34:17 GMT from Canada)
Upstream X.org git master now has a better fix for the issue (instead of simply doing a sanity check and throwing away 'bad' EDID data, it spots when a unit error like this is the problem and does the appropriate unit conversion). git commit is http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/xserver.git;a=commit.... I have proposed it to our X.org maintainer for the MDV package.
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20080324&mode=67
I am still waiting for the "better fix", Adam! :-)
121 • @ Dick Cheney (by blah on 2008-07-31 06:09:42 GMT from United States)
You might want to loosen your tin foil hat, I believe it's restricting blood flow to your brain. When the blood flow has returned to your brain please read the license and try to understand its terms or, better yet, consult with a decent copyright lawyer preferably before you shoot him in a "hunting accident" but afterwards in the hospital might work as well.
122 • Bye (by Vinze on 2008-07-31 06:57:52 GMT from Netherlands)
Sight.... I am tired of the comment section. Al this wining and bullxxxx is a waist of time. There are better things in life to put my energie on.
123 • KDE 4.1 (by FYI on 2008-07-31 10:04:01 GMT from Australia)
Past, present and future
While KDE 4.1 aims at being the first release suitable for early adopting users, some features you are used to in KDE 3.5 are not implemented yet. The KDE team is working on those and strives to make them available in one of the next releases. While there is no guarantee that every single feature from KDE 3.5 will be implemented, KDE 4.1 already provides a powerful and feature-rich working environment.
Note that some options in the UI have moved to a place in the context of the data they manipulate, so make sure you have a closer look before you report anything missing in action.
KDE 4.1 is a huge step forward in the KDE4 series and hopefully sets the pace for future development. KDE 4.2 can be expected in January 2009.
http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.1/
124 • #122 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-31 13:24:56 GMT from United States)
Unfortunately, I am gettting there myself. I come here to try and get some insight into what the strengths and weaknesses are of the various distros, how to overcome issues, what works best with laptops, etc, etc. Instead it is post after post about bots for certain distros that "shouldn't be" #1, endless ramblings about source files and the GPL, fanboys distro bashing anything that isn't their distro or denying obvious issues with their distro, individuals who seem to come here only to enjoy attacking anyone else over the slightest issue, whining to the point of a request to ban someone because of a tag line on thier comments and on and on.
I am looking for adult discussion and sharing of information. Instead it is like a kiddie room with no rules and too many unruly children. If this comment section was my first introduction to Linux I would never have made the change. It would be very difficult for people to come away with a good opinion of Linux or its community after reading the childish rantings here.
Obviously this only applies to a percentage of those commenting here, as there are some very good posts that have made the rest worth putting up with, but it seems every month that percentage gets smaller. It seems every geek devoid of people skills comes here to flaunt their foolishness. It is a real shame.
And #1116 said "Everyone has the right to express himself". No they don't. Good manners and respect for others dictates that there are times when the best thing for everyone involved is for you to keep your mouth shut. Look carefully at the line at the bottom of the box to put in a comment. "It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." It is there for a reason and is ignored far too often.
This is a very popular site and the first introduction for many to Linux and its community. Wouldn't it makes sense to put forth the best image possible and endeavor to make ourselves look like the "better option" from every standpoint? I think the image of reasoned, mature adults trying to lend a hand and share their knowledge to the uninitiated would project a far better image than what we see going on here from many of the participants.
125 • No subject (by Vinze on 2008-07-31 14:06:55 GMT from Netherlands)
Amen
126 • Re. 124 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-31 14:10:26 GMT from Canada)
"I am looking for adult discussion and sharing of information."
Sorry, you are in the wrong place. This is not a "for adult only" site, but a Linux live CD is the safest way for you to go to those sites.
"the best thing for everyone involved is ..."
There is no such thing as best for everyone. Best for you may not be good for others and vise-versa.
"Look carefully at the line at the bottom of the box to put in a comment"
Did you?????
127 • REF# 124 (by John Grub on 2008-07-31 14:26:01 GMT from United States)
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!
Endless drivel about GPL and other nonsense !!!
I come to DW to hear about latest distros and NOT nonsense hot air.
128 • RE: 127 (by Harris Milton on 2008-07-31 15:25:53 GMT from United States)
You are correct sir. This has become a FLAME forum in many recent editions. Lots of GPL B.S. this time and very little Distro-Watching and commenting. The next time the flame might be micro, mini and usb linux wars. Then more Ubuntu trashing followed by high praises for Windows Vista vs Linux? Then closed source vs. open source. Followed again by the future GPL 4, a hot new Flame session I'm sure.
129 • #126 (by RC on 2008-07-31 15:33:34 GMT from United States)
I wondered who would be the first to prove my point about unruly children with no people skills and a complete lack of respect for others. Congratulations. You win the prize.
130 • Re. 129 (by Anonymous on 2008-07-31 16:14:04 GMT from Canada)
Better keep the prize down there to yourself.
131 • Re: #129 Stop feeding and #5 Atheros N wireless drivers (by awong on 2008-07-31 17:16:59 GMT from Canada)
Just focus on the important distro discussions and filter out the rest - oh, and stop feeding the trolls.
RE: #5 Apparently, support for Atheros N wireless devices will be available in the Linux kernel itself; no need to download drivers (from the mailist re:ath9k drivers). :)
132 • @120 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-07-31 17:24:39 GMT from Canada)
Ah, I thought it was a different issue you were talking about. But it's true to say I haven't seen any further report of it since then, apart from you.
And sorry, but you *do* need to file a bug report. Otherwise, this is exactly what happens: memories are faulty things and the signal gets lost. Bug reports are necessary precisely to avoid that.
133 • 121 (by Dick Cheney on 2008-07-31 17:42:16 GMT from United States)
I must be hitting the big time now. Someone posting a hateful, incoherent comment aimed at me!
Nothing I wrote about the requirements of the GPL are new. If you have followed, say, the Mepis or Zenwalk case, you know what the GPL requires. Do an MSN search and for "Mepis GPL" or "Zenwalk GPL" and see what comes up.
As for saying discussion of GPL violations being off limits, that makes no sense. You may not be interested, but no topic will be interesting to everyone. GPL violations are clearly relevant. Yes, Beranger writes with a bit of intensity. If Ladislav feels the tone is not right, he can ban such comments. But just because someone is not personally interested in GPL issues is no reason to prohibit such discussion.
134 • Mandriva 2009 beta 1: great pre-release (by killer1987 on 2008-07-31 18:17:21 GMT from Italy)
thank you for this great pre-release! everything is working and KDE 4.1 is amazing, i look forward to the stable release!!
bye
Marcello
135 • Absolute(ly unobtainable) and lightweight distros (by DanceMan on 2008-08-01 00:00:26 GMT from Canada)
I've been downloading and trying various lightwieght distros to replace Win 98 on an old Armada laptop (PII 266, 192Mb). I started by trying to download Absolute following its recent listing on DW for the latest release, 12.1.05. I attempted to download that three times, the last time reaching about 2Mb short of full. All were terminated prior to completion, and the server at Ibiblio does not support resume. Tried a DL manager to no better result.
Okay, we'll try the 12.1.04, because it's available from a different source. Same result in two attempts, and again with and without a DL manager, no resume supported.
I even dug out the other computer that's set up to handle torrents. Only 12.1.0 "available" there. No seeders, no results.
During this time I've downloaded about 4 or 5 other distros, without problems. Absolute has now consumed well in excess of 2G of bandwidth without delivering a usable iso, so I'm going to call this one a distro in theory only.
On the subject of lightweight distros in general, I think the term is being used to cover too wide a range of hardware, to the point that the term is not sufficiently useful. What's useable on a P3 with 512Mb of ram won't do for a PII 233 with 128Mb. I think we'd be better served if we could come up with more names to more accurately catagorize the target hardware for the lightweight distros. Anyone with me on this, and any suggestions as to where to draw the lines?
136 • to those GPL cops out there (by Distrowatch vistor 136 on 2008-08-01 00:14:44 GMT from United States)
please stop!!! I thought about visting Distrowatch.com, not GPLwatch.com. This is why many developers are shying away from producing their work using the GPL. IT was an ecellent license, but there too many HATERZ out there that are spreading FUD. Please stop! Now people will be afraid of creating good distros out there because, if their project is succeeding many
a$$holes want the sources.
If you like the GPL so much, please make a new site, GPLwatch.com and leave the good people alone..
137 • re 136 (by Anonymous on 2008-08-01 03:10:38 GMT from Canada)
I haven't seen such a dumb comment in a long time. :)
All Linux distros listed here are under GPL. Nobody forced those distros to go with GPL. They freely chose GPL. So all these distros must obey the rules. They must release the sources. I don't know why you argue something so obvious. The Linux distros that break the GPL should be banned from this website.
138 • -GPL (by Just say no to GPL on 2008-08-01 03:55:48 GMT from United States)
Re 137 You should be banned from this webseite along with your GPL cowgirls !
139 • @135 (by Alan UK on 2008-08-01 06:29:26 GMT from United Kingdom)
Using the sport of boxing as a guide, how about "flyweight" for Damn Small Linux/Slitaz/Puppy?
140 • re 138 (by Anonymous on 2008-08-01 08:36:13 GMT from Germany)
Just say no to GPL
Definitely. Tell those Linux distros that have no respect for GPL to say no to GPL. They can definitely use other kernels unencumbered by GPL. Vista's kernel seems to suit them perfectly. It is closed source. They won't have to release the sources.
141 • Qu 136-138 :The GPL can exist without DW .. but the reverse waay? (by dbrion on 2008-08-01 09:06:41 GMT from France)
"
If you like the GPL so much, please make a new site, GPLwatch.com and leave the good people alone.."
Would the "good people" of DWW and the "good site" exist if GPL did not exist?
I suppose the "good people" have greater skills for programming/bug detecting/reporting than the DWW readers (and sometimes, writers)....
For good informative (not of unexplained, unjustified "opinions") sites, just google search "wikipedia + the topic which interest someone"....
142 • Parted Magic 3.0 (by Andy Axnot on 2008-08-01 13:44:13 GMT from United States)
Thanks to Susan for the mini review of Parted Magic 3.0. I agree completely with her conclusions. PM continues to impress, big time. I only wish they would loosen up a bit on their insistence on small size. Another few megabytes and it would be a killer liveCD. But the dev and some supporters really hew to the smaller is better line. I still love it.
Andy
143 • Troll # 137 138 (by john frey on 2008-08-01 13:44:27 GMT from Canada)
Why don't you go complain on Microsoft's site that they are demanding that people pay for their API's and development tools? Paying for the rights to use proprietary development tools and API's is the alternative for programmers who can't meet the requirements of the GPL or other free licenses.
You think it's easier to pay than to provide sources? Chew on that one, troll.
144 • sorry #137 meant #136 (by john frey on 2008-08-01 13:53:37 GMT from Canada)
u no wat i meen
145 • RE 92 You were very kind (by dbrion on 2008-08-01 15:28:14 GMT from France)
Hi John Frey, if you are still here, I found a good link (in good English, messeems) to the song of Knight Jacques de la Palice).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_de_la_Palice
English wikipedia is very often better than the French one.
You wrote that "For some reason business and Freedom are not very compatible".
I know of one exception:
If one sells numbers (results from computations; instead of selling softs), the way they are computed (and the ability to explain that the algorithms are not too wrong/badly implemented) are more important than the softwares in themselves, and being portable can matter, too (if one changes computers, OS) : more and more people in my work insist on getting the sources (if they do not know on which OS they will install them) or on giving the sources (if they want their softs to be maintained, in case of emergency, while they are in holidays/dead/ doing something else).
146 • Flyweight @ 139 (by DanceMan on 2008-08-01 19:34:57 GMT from Canada)
Great suggestion, Alan. Your boxing metaphors opens up even more possibilites: middleweight, bantamweight. But flyweight would be perfect for the 50Mb DSL.
There does need to be more differentiation. When Caitlyn was writing about Puppy on her laptops, one was a 1G Celeron and another had an even higher spec. I tended to think of lightweight distros more in the range of 500Mhz and lower, but I'm not suggesting that anyone is right or wrong here, just that we need more catagories. And I think available ram is often more important than cpu speed, some motherboards and laptops having rather low ram limits. Or cost and availability of old ram limiting a given machine to whatever is already in it.
147 • @ Dick Cheney post 133 re 80 (by meh on 2008-08-02 03:08:48 GMT from United States)
The scumbag takes GPL'd software and modifies it. He then distributes the binary with source to only one company, Microsoft. Microsoft includes the modified GPL software in its OS hypothetically called Windows.
Kindly point out how this is done without violating the license terms of the GPL, knowing full well that linking to object code that exists under a non-compatible license makes that code legally non-distributable in all countries that have signed onto the Berne Convention.
But hey, don't let me stop you from educating yourself :)
148 • re 147 (by hem on 2008-08-02 06:37:51 GMT from Canada)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
149 • @148 (by General Lie-Zation on 2008-08-02 07:42:38 GMT from Australia)
You can't blame 137... You can't put all Americans in the same bucket... although we like to do so when we see one behaving in some way we don't approve but they're not all alike!
150 • @ 146 (by Alan UK on 2008-08-02 10:41:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
Not too many catagories though, or we'll end up just like the boxing world:
everything from fly, bantam, light, middle, light heavyweight etc., etc.
I reasoned that the term "flyweight" more accurately separates the 50Mb distros from the Gnome/KDE distros that offer xfce etc.,just as an alternative desktop.
I've used Xubuntu in the past. I use Ubuntu now. The difference between the two
isn't as great as between, for example, Xubuntu and Slitaz.
I agree with you about the system requirements. My other pc is an 800 Mhz AMD Duron 256 Mb ram. Originally running windows 98se. Personally, this is about as minimal as I get.
Like you, I suspect small ram rather than cpu speed is a major consideration. To that I'd add small onboard graphics too.
151 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-08-02 14:26:54 GMT from United States)
> Kindly point out how this is done without violating the license terms of the GPL
My reference is to distributing the code along with Windows the same way as you can distribute Adobe's Flash Player in a Linux distribution. It is not necessary to engage in 'linking to object code'. Or, if you wish, just throw away the Windows reference altogether as it was only an example, and not a very important part of the example. Say the scumbag takes Ubuntu and makes his own modifications, then distributes it to one company, Microsoft. Microsoft could then distribute the 'improved Ubuntu' in binary form with no requirement to distribute the source.
> But hey, don't let me stop you from educating yourself
No source code, the software is not free. As I've noted above, the only way to guarantee there is source code is to force the distributor to provide it.
Please direct future inquiries to the FSF. I assure you, they know what they are doing, and they know why that clause is in the GPL.
152 • No subject (by Dick Cheney on 2008-08-02 14:28:12 GMT from United States)
151 was from me.
153 • REF# 152 (by NOGPL on 2008-08-02 14:50:26 GMT from United States)
Of course it was. Where ever there is GPL NONSENSE there you are in the middle!
154 • RE 153 (by Anonymous on 2008-08-02 15:57:49 GMT from France)
> Where ever there is GPL NONSENSE "
If you consider that there are nonsense in the GPL, then try to change it, modify the 'nonsenses'... But for now it applies as it is!
If it does not suit you, then again try to make it changing, if you can, or go look elsewhere.
And stop playing the provocateurs and attacking people...
155 • @154 (by Anonymous on 2008-08-02 22:45:40 GMT from United States)
The nonsense from the GPL is trying to be removed by revisions like the GPLv3 in which it relaxes things a bit. The fact that the license is restrictive is what many people out there resent.
The GPL by nature is a good license. What is bad is that people take it and refuse to give back to it like it requires ;( That is why the GPLcops accuse Distros of noncopliance. This is what makes the GPL look bad, now who is worse the GPLcops or the RIAA? Yes DRM is bad, but your approach of putting restrictions on software is also bad!
156 • 155 (by Dick Cheney on 2008-08-02 23:58:08 GMT from United States)
I gave an explanation about the terms of the GPL and why a certain set of restrictions in it exists. Do you also post strange comments about Wikipedia, the dictionary, and Roget's Thesaurus?
As for the rest of your comment, it helps to have a point.
"who is worse the GPLcops or the RIAA"
"Yes DRM is bad, but your approach of putting restrictions on software is also bad"
"What is bad is that people take it and refuse to give back to it like it requires"
"The GPL by nature is a good license"
Were you just jotting down random, contradictory phrases, or were you trying to say something? What 'restrictions' have I put on anything? The developers that use the GPL are the ones that did the restricting. Who are these GPL cops of whom you speak? Yet you say the GPL is a good license and it is bad when individuals don't comply with it.
Huh?
157 • RE 153 (by Anonymous on 2008-08-03 00:39:30 GMT from France)
> Where ever there is GPL NONSENSE "
If you consider that there are nonsense in the GPL, then try to change it, modify the 'nonsenses'... But for now it applies as it is!
If it does not suit you, then again try to make it changing, if you can, or go look elsewhere.
And stop playing the provocateurs and attacking people...
158 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-08-03 04:07:53 GMT from Canada)
I love free software
I love linux
I love the rapid innovation
this is because of the gpl -
159 • RE 33 High kernel numbers are not a synonym of quality (cf RH) (by dbrion on 2008-08-03 14:27:20 GMT from France)
RE 33
Merci tout d'abord de poster en Français : ça me permet de répondre très vite, et sans coller de dépression nerveuse à des âmes trop sensibles (qui, soit dit en passant, feraient bien de faire marcher leur cervelle une ou deux fois par an)...
J'ai mis du temps à te répondre, car j'étais un peu ennuyé avec des orages, et il est difficile de trouver des cartes de rechange pour des portables dans des villes de province françaises en Aout, peut être plus que dans des pays du tiers monde... ce qui me ramène à un de tes points (du fait que tu dépends de fournisseurs, tu es incité à acheter du nouveau, si j'ai bien compris -à part la pression de tes clients-). Il existe des gens qui arrivent très bien à vivre et utiliser du vieux matériel, quelque soit le pays, et ce talent a de plus en plus tendance à être méprisé ("mon portemonnaie est plus grand que tes talents", devise du "Power User" autoproclamé, celui qui sait où est le bouton M/A).
Un exemple de ce mépris peut être trouvé dans http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20080602&mode=67, où, alors que quelqu'un avait trouvé un moyen d'installer O'Suse (posts 1,76, confirmés par d'autres auteurs -79 et 113-), la réponse typique était :
EX. "81 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-06-03 13:38:46 GMT from United States)
#1: You can't expect any full-fledged Linux desktop to run well w/ 256MB RAM. You'd be better off with XFCE or DSL for example. Memory is dirt cheap, get at least 1GB."
Quand au caractère interessant de numéros de noyaux récents, on peut se référer à http://cycle-gap.blogspot.com/2008/07/linux-kernel-development-stats-from.html
où un des points de cette retranscription était "There is no good way to test the kernel except to run it. The hundreds of permutations of devices and interactions makes it impossible to test it comprehensively." Ceci, ajouté au fait que des tests empiriques n'ont pas grande valeur (cf la doc d'Octave), fait douter de la qualité des nouveaux noyaux, développés sous pression de fabricants et d'utilisateurs à courte vue, et non vérifiables.
Cette retranscription donne aussi des infos intéressantes sur les contributions financières des Huns et des (H)autres....Je n'évoquerai pas, par charité, la 8 ième UBU merveille du monde, mais RedHat semble plus intéressant (finance et y détecte des bugs...).
Au fait, RH (dont on accepte d'acheter des services et des logiciels, du fait de sa réputation et de ses talents) a annoncé une nouvelle version cette semaine....et quel est son numèro de noyau?
Bon été, et ne sois pas trop embêté avec des cyclones..
160 • Foxconn BIOS/MB (by . K. Vlastos on 2008-08-04 02:07:47 GMT from United States)
Those who intend boycotting Foxconn should refrain from buying ALL that they manufacture:
With a vertical integration with Apple, they manufacture Ipod Nanos,MacBook Pros, MacBook Airs and iPhones.
They make various oem parts, including MBs for Dell and HP, heatsinks for AMD processors, including PGA/ZIF sockets used by corps like ASUS.
They make cell phones for Motorola, Nokia and Sony Ericsson.
Leadtek is Foxconn.
This is only a partial list of products.
It is notable that the latest Linux kernels "falsify" reality by returning a positive presence of ALL Microsoft OS releases when queried by the BIOS. Since the BIOS reacts to the OS queries with differing responses, small wonder that "Linux" is sometimes difficult to install may give a different install performance in repeated installs on the same box.
Since HP certifies much of their hardware, including computers (all having MBs) for 3 Linux distros, it is unlikely that they instruct Foxconn to make special provisions in their motherboards to accomodate Linux, thus creating a special and separate manufacturing process just for "Linux" boards.
Much easier for the bigots to simply blame everything on "Windoze". Linux competes more directly with Apple and Darwin that it does
Windows.
Number of Comments: 160
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