 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 256, 9 June 2008 |
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Welcome to this year's 23rd issue of DistroWatch Weekly! Ever since the launch of ASUS Linux Eee PC late last year, the ultra-portable computer market has turned into a major battleground of operating systems. Who will win? Microsoft with its thick wallet and pressure tactics or Linux with its low cost and open development model? Last week's Computex in Taipei revealed surprising differences between the ways hardware manufacturers embrace this exciting market. In the news section, Debian announces upcoming freeze of "Lenny", Mandriva celebrates its 10-year birthday, Canonical releases Ubuntu Netbook Remix, and FreeBSD updates the End-of-Life dates for its current and past releases. Also in this week's issue, a good collection of search resources for CentOS and RHEL users, and a list of valuable third-party repositories for openSUSE 11.0. Finally, with the annual package database update on DistroWatch, do let us know which new packages you want us to include in the tracking process. Happy reading!
Content:
- Report: Computex 2008 - Linux ultra-portables galore
- News: Debian "Lenny" freeze, Mandriva Cooker news, Ubuntu Netbook Remix, FreeBSD EoL notice, openSUSE package repositories, CentOS search resources, Gentoo release delays, interview with Red Hat CEO
- Released last week: Damn Small Linux 4.4, Linux Mint 5, Zenwalk Linux 5.2
- Upcoming releases: Ubuntu 8.10 Alpha 1
- Site news: Annual package database update
- New distributions: PING, ZevenOS
- Reader comments
 Join us at irc.freenode.net #distrowatch
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| Feature Story |
Computex 2008 - Linux ultra-portables galore
From a Linux user's perspective, Computex is hardly an exciting event. The world's second largest computer exhibition is primarily designed to showcase the latest innovations by Taiwanese hardware manufacturers and to conclude lucrative deals with a growing number of overseas buyers. But the enormous success of the originally Linux-only Eee PC from ASUS meant that even a Linux enthusiast could find something to look at during this year's event. Furthermore, the first mini-laptop has created a large number of copycats and there is hardly a major or minor notebook manufacturer in this part of the world that hasn't thought of developing its own version of an ultra-portable. For this reason, this year's Computex offered much more to a Linux user than any of the previous shows.
 The most obvious booth to visit was, of course, the ASUS Eee PC stand. Continuously crowded with eager visitors, the well-known motherboard and electronics manufacturer displayed not only its old and existing Eee PC models, but also the upcoming Intel Atom-based Eee PC 901 and ASUS Eee PC 1000 (pictured on the left) series, as well as the new, Mac Mini-like Eee Box. All these products were available for testing by the visitors, with the staff on the floor allowing everyone to play with the products to their hearts' content. Besides the main products, the impressively designed stand also presented a wide range of accessories for the mini-laptops in neatly arranged display windows.
 However, not all was well at the ASUS stand. As a visitor interested in Linux, I was disappointed to find just one of the products on display running the open source operating system. Even worse was the fact that the entire area was plastered with advertisements displaying large Windows and Microsoft logos. The only flyer available at the stand was a Microsoft one entitled "It's better with Windows" (see picture on the right), while the technical specifications sheet showing the various products available was spoilt by a large slogan on the top reading "ASUS recommends Windows for everyday computing". I had noticed the same slogan on flyers distributed in local computer stores, wherever ASUS products were sold.
Seeing all this was a shock, to say the least! ASUS has effectively relegated the word "Linux" to the confines of the small print. For its Eee Box, it wasn't even listed as an option. I felt cold shivers going through my body; how is it possible that Microsoft's thick wallet was able to hijack this great product, a Linux product, for its own cold-blooded propaganda and FUD? And how could ASUS do this to the Linux community after the tireless promotion it had given the Eee PC in the media? To the uninitiated visitor of the ASUS stand at Computex, the Eee PC might have easily looked like just another clever and innovative product designed and developed by Microsoft!
 That said, I also felt a sense of satisfaction seeing how Microsoft had been forced to compete with Linux. Its "it's better with Windows" slogan implies that there is an alternative, the existence of which the software giant vehemently denied, even ridiculed, not long ago. Unfortunately for ASUS, it has succumbed to whatever Microsoft wanted from its next-generation Eee PC as this excellent computer is about to become big, bloated, heavy and expensive (see the picture on the left comparing the 900 and 1000 series side by side), the characteristics often associated with Microsoft's own products. Certainly a radical departure from the successful, low-cost, original Linux-based Eee PC!
Luckily for Linux, the vacuum left behind by ASUS is quickly being filled with alternatives. The Acer Inspire One, also displayed at the show, is a product that will no doubt find accord quickly with the Linux community. Acer has been selling Linux laptops in certain markets for some months and last week's widely reported anti-Microsoft quote by a high-ranking Acer representative, together with the company's promised large-scale promotion of Linux-based laptops, will no doubt make Acer a new darling of the Linux community. (Let's just hope that the company won't make another ASUS-like turnaround as soon as a Microsoft's sales manager shows up with his cheque book!)
 I had a chance to play with Acer Aspire One (see picture on the right) for a few minutes at the Acer stand. It's a sleek, well-designed mini-laptop, reportedly running Linpus Linux "Lite", a product created by Taiwan's Linpus Technologies. But according to /etc/system-release, the operating system installed on Aspire One was "Fedora 8 (Werewolf)", suggesting that Linpus Lite is really just a hacked-version of Fedora, rather than a completely independent product. This is another reason the Linux developer community is likely to embrace Aspire One - the Fedora/Linpus distribution will always be a more welcome product than Eee PC's Xandros Desktop, after Xandros' history of developing proprietary components for its products and the unpopular baggage in the form of the infamous Microsoft patent protection agreement. Linpus Technologies has not (yet) signed any such deal.
According to the Acer stand representative, the Atom-based Aspire One laptops will be officially launched before the end of June 2008, with the Linux edition likely to cost just under US$400.
 But the real shock at the Computex exhibition came at the booth run by VIA, another major Taiwanese hardware manufacturer, perhaps best-known for its low-cost, low-requirements processors. The company had an entire wall of its stand devoted to VIA-powered mini-laptops, manufactured by the growing number of both well-known brands and minor start-ups. To my amazement, I counted no fewer than 24 different ultra-portable models! Although most of them were running Windows, a handful offered a choice between Linux and Windows, while three of them displayed Linux editions. These were HP Mini-Note with SUSE Linux Enterprise, Everex Cloudbook with gOS and a previously unseen Quanta ILI Mini-Note (pictured on the left) running Linpus Linux.
As for Linpus Technologies, besides being present on mini-laptops around the show, it also had a stand of its own. It displayed several Acer Aspire One laptops, as well as a number of other ultra-portables, including the HP Mini-Note and a couple of "no-name" ones, all running Linpus Linux Lite. It seems that the company is well-positioned to take advantage of the vast manufacturer base here in Taiwan, as it is able to react fast to any new product announcements coming from local companies. If the current explosion of mini-laptops continues, we could see a rapidly growing market share of Linpus Linux on these types of products.
As for the newly announced Ubuntu Netbook Remix, I had no luck finding it on display at Computex. Granted, the exhibition was huge, spread over many buildings in two different parts of the city, but if the new software package was there, it certainly wasn't something that would hit the visitor into his face.
In conclusion, a big thumbs-down to ASUS for turning its successful Linux product into just another Microsoft propaganda tool, for its bloated, heavy and overpriced Eee PC 901/1000 range, and for dropping Linux completely from the Eee Box. A huge thumbs up to Acer and its courage to place a massive bet on Linux. If you are on the market for a new mini-laptop, I recommend that you wait just a few more weeks and spend your cash on Acer's Aspire One, instead of the ASUS "screw-the-Linux-community" Eee PC. And if Aspire One doesn't fit your taste for some reason, don't despair. Very soon, your local computer store will carry a considerable number of mini-laptops from well-known manufacturers and from never-heard-of-before ones, with prices almost certainly being pushed into new record lows.
Whatever you do, give ASUS Eee PC a miss.
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| Miscellaneous News |
Debian "Lenny" freeze, Mandriva Cooker news, Ubuntu Netbook Remix, FreeBSD EoL notice, openSUSE package repositories, CentOS search resources, Gentoo release delays, interview with Red Hat CEO
 Debian GNU/Linux has published a new release update, outlining the current status and upcoming goals of the project before the expected September release of version 5.0 "Lenny". Some of the more interesting release goals include: "Transition to Perl 5.10; GCC 4.3 as the default compiler on all architectures; switch /bin/sh to dash; prepare init.d scripts for dependency-based init systems; support for Python 2.5; transition to XULRunner." Also, a freeze of non-essential toolchains and libraries is now under way, with a full freeze expected to take effect in July. As for the packages, expect to see Lenny shipping with GNOME 2.22, but the status of KDE has yet to be decided: "The KDE team is continuing to prepare packages for KDE 4.1 development releases. The first beta has just been uploaded to experimental and user are encouraged to test it. Please note that we haven't decided yet on the inclusion of KDE 4.1 in Lenny, but plan to do so in the near future."
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 Mandriva Linux is 10-years old! Completing the bumpy first decade of its existence, the Paris-based company celebrated its birthday in style - with a party in the Gustave Eiffel hall on the 1st floor of the Eiffel Tower: "On Friday, May 30th, we were invited to Mandriva's 10th anniversary celebration at the Eiffel Tower. This French company, which specializes in producing Linux distributions, was born in 1998. Previously named Mandrake (the famous 'magician'), it changed its name after the takeover of Conectiva in 2006. In these 10 years, the company has introduced several innovations in the world of free software and its distribution is one of the world's most popular (although currently in the shadow of Ubuntu). We saw several interesting sights at the event, including two machines side by side: one new system running Mandriva Linux 2008 Spring, the second (a Pentium) equipped with the first version of Mandrake. The difference is striking and shows that Linux has made great progress in 10 years."
Still on the subject of Mandriva Linux, Fabrice Facorat has published a quick update on the current status of Cooker, Mandriva's development branch. Banshee 1.0, Google Gadgets, KDE 4.0.81 and much more; here is a brief list of some of the improvements: "Banshee 1.0 is available; on user requests, Wallpapoz has been packaged, with a large panel of options to configure the wallpaper of the GNOME desktop, notably the ability to define a wallpaper for each virtual desktop; Google Gadgets for Linux has been packaged; the Oxygen theme support for Firefox has been packaged; KDE 4.0.81 is in Cooker since at least a week; Firefox 3.0 RC2 is available in testing; Cooker is now using kernel 2.6.26-rc4-git5, the NVIDIA drivers have been updated to support this kernel; Mandriva have switched to TCB (from OpenWall) to store password instead of the old shadow; Olivier Blin is on fire and have added many new features and bug fixes to Mandriva network tools, notably concerning 3G connections."
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 Canonical has announced the release of Ubuntu Netbook Remix, a specialist distribution designed for ultra-portable Internet devices: "Canonical, the commercial sponsor of Ubuntu, today announced that it will be demonstrating a reworked desktop image of Ubuntu built specifically for a new category of portable Internet-centric devices -- netbooks. These affordable, power-efficient, small screen devices, based on the ground breaking low-power micro-architecture of the Intel Atom processor, and Ubuntu allow consumers to enjoy email, instant messaging, Internet surfing and on-line access to photos, videos or music with an affordable, reliable device. Ubuntu Netbook Remix is based on the standard Ubuntu Desktop edition but with a launcher that allows users to get on-line more quickly and have faster access to their favourite applications. Ubuntu Netbook Remix will enable device manufacturers to get to market rapidly with a compelling software solution on netbooks." See also Mark Shuttleworth's blog post entitled Netbooks pre-loaded with Ubuntu.
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 The FreeBSD security team has published an update on the status of security support in FreeBSD. Users still running FreeBSD 5.5, 6.1 and 6.2 should note that, as of 1 June 2008, these versions are no longer supported: "The branches supported by the FreeBSD Security Officer have been updated to reflect recent EoL (end-of-life) events. FreeBSD 5.5, FreeBSD 6.1, and FreeBSD 6.2 have 'expired' and are no longer supported effective June 1, 2008. Users of these releases are advised to upgrade promptly to FreeBSD 6.3 or FreeBSD 7.0, either by downloading an updated source tree and building updates manually, or (for i386 and amd64 systems) using the FreeBSD Update utility as described in the FreeBSD 6.3 and FreeBSD 7.0 release announcements. This marks the end of support by the FreeBSD Security Team for the FreeBSD 5-STABLE branch." As for the current stable version for the 6.x and 7.x branches, the estimated EoL is 31 January 2010 for FreeBSD 6.3 and 28 February 2009 for FreeBSD 7.0.
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 Installing third-party software is a popular way of enhancing a Linux distribution beyond its stock status. But where does one find good lists of extra package repositories? If you are an openSUSE user you are in luck - last week Ben Kevan and James Ogley published a useful list of repositories, designed to extend openSUSE 11.0: "With the openSUSE 11.0 release coming around the corner, I felt it was about time that we talked about some of the most useful repositories to make the best of your openSUSE experience (which will be great with or without the additions of the repositories I have included). Here is a Wiki page I have written to show some of the most useful repositories. They include KDE4, KDE3, education (for Bluefish mainly), Compiz Fusion and many more." Also included are several GNOME repositories for the latest stable version of the popular desktop, as well as a few other packages built by the openSUSE GNOME user community.
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 For users wanting stability and free long-term support, one of the best options is to install CentOS, a distribution created by recompiling the source code for Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL). The question is, what happens if you run into a problem and need help? Here is a list of excellent Firefox search add-ons specifically related to Red Hat Enterprise Linux and CentOS, courtesy of Dag Wieers: "If you use RHEL or CentOS a lot and you often find yourself looking for good information on the web about either CentOS or RHEL, you might find the following Firefox search add-ons very useful. I would like to have them on the Firefox add-on web site, but in the meantime you can install them directly from this blog article. Also remember that the solutions you find for CentOS are equally suited on RHEL and vice versa. So you might want to have both the RHEL and CentOS Knowledge Base search added to your Firefox. Important: only supported by Firefox 2 and higher! So ironically this will not work for CentOS 5.1, but RHEL 5.2 should be fine."
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 The Gentoo Linux release engineering page still maintains that the project's upcoming version will be released in March 2008, which obviously won't happen. So what's the hold-up? Tobias Klausmann explains: "In 2008, we first aimed for a release sometime in April. Again, the dates kept slipping and we're now quickly heading for 2008 half-time and there still has been no release. If things go well, there will soon be one, but I (just like the rest of the releng team) refuse to give any date. Now, the question is why a release is slipping time and again. There are (as usual) a variety of reasons this is the case. The following list isn't complete, I'm quite sure. Still, those are the most prominent reasons from my perspective - it's an opinion piece." The author's list of reasons include complexity associated with building release media, events affecting developers' personal lives, general aversion towards repetitive tasks, and difficulties accompanying any testing and bug reproduction. The author concludes: "As for the solutions to these problems, I suspect more policy, more process and all that might spring to mind first. But at the core of them lies a two-fold reason that is the source of most of it: release building isn't an easy job and people are lazy."
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 Finally, a good interview with Jim Whitehurst, the CEO of Red Hat, Inc.: "Q: Which distros were you using? A: Fedora! Many years ago I used Slackware and I have to admit that I played around with Ubuntu and PCLinuxOS, but I've mainly been a Fedora user for a long time. When I first got the call about the Red Hat job, it was the first time my wife truly saw me light up in a long, long time. It's an incredibly powerful economic model but I guess from my personal perspective it is an extraordinary opportunity because it's so new. We have an opportunity to redefine major chunks of the way software is developed and the opportunity to play a lead role in that is extraordinary. I wake up every day and it's a thrill just to come to work. I certainly understood the power of the open source model and the opportunity for us to really change the way software is developed, but I don't think I fully conceptualised that before joining."
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| Released Last Week |
Resulinux 2.9
Resulinux is a Brazilian desktop distribution based on Debian GNU/Linux. A new version 2.9, code name "Chesed", was released yesterday. From the changelog: added option to choose one of the four available desktop themes; KDE 3.5.9 with Compiz; new configuration and package installation panels; security improvements; major applications - OpenOffice.org 2.4.0, Firefox 3.0; Linux kernel 2.6.23.13 enhanced for performance; bug fixes in Kaffeine and scripts for installing the ATI and NVIDIA proprietary video drivers; new script for configuring wireless networking and miscellaneous other networking improvements. Please visit the distribution's download page (in Portuguese) to read the complete changelog.
Resulinux - a Brazilian desktop distribution based on Debian GNU/Linux
(full image size: 430kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
Absolute Linux 12.1.01
Paul Sherman has announced the release of Absolute Linux 12.1.01, the first minor update to the light-weight, Slackware-based desktop distribution. From the changelog: "wicd updated (version 1.4.2), includes changes to daemon.py and networking.py to accommodate Slackware's networking scripts without altering them; 5ball gets a new high-contrast theme (requested by a visually-impaired user); absServices.py updated (utility to set start-up daemons); changed from wxGTK to pyGTK + code clean-up; flv2avi re-introduced, added desktop file and dialog if ffmpeg is not installed; K3B updated to 1.0.5, includes plugin support for ffmpeg use; multimedia installer updated; fixed ffmpeg not installing properly; couple of performance tweaks." Here is the release announcement with a full changelog.
eAR OS 1.09
Peter Thomsen has announced the release of eAR OS 1.09, an Ubuntu-based Linux distribution designed for the multimedia enthusiast: "After a small delay, a new eAR OS, version 1.09b, can be downloaded. The most important features of this release: navigate the eAR Media Center with a mouse, a touch pad or a touch screen; Windows Media Center remote controls (new version with a Philips ID) now work out-of-the-box; update of the 2.6.24 Real-Time Linux kernel and update of almost all applications to the very newest stable releases, the excellent Exaile audio player with iPod support has been added too; new features in the MORE menu; Firefox with support for QuickTime content and DivX movie playback; firewall to prevent incoming traffic." Visit the project's news page to read the release announcement.
Zenwalk Linux 5.2
Jean-Philippe Guillemin has announced the release of Zenwalk Linux 5.2: "The long awaited Zenwalk Linux 5.2 is now available. What's new? The new release includes nearly 500 changes to software packages including a number of updates, bug fixes and enhanced replacements for some software. Notable updates include the Linux kernel version 2.6.25.4 and the Xfce desktop 4.4.2. An improved package manager; Netpkg 'new generation' is now at version 4, introducing many improvements: better layout, tree-like view of packages, many help pop-ups, ultra-intuitive user interface, automatic colorization of icons; full internationalization of the user interface; real-time recursive dependency computing, and full-text search. Improved multimedia support; refined system power usage; the beautiful and well-polished Xfce desktop refreshed with new artwork...." Read the complete release announcement for more information.
Zenwalk Linux 5.2 features new artwork and an improved graphical package management tool.
(full image size: 169kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
Linux Mint 5
Clement Lefebvre has announced the release of Linux Mint 5.0, an enhanced and user-friendly desktop Linux distribution based on Ubuntu 8.04: "It is with great pleasure that I officially announce the release of Linux Mint 5 Elyssa." Among the many new characteristics of this release the most notable are: miscellaneous improvements to mintMenu, mintUpdate and mintInstall; various feature enhancements on the GNOME desktop; performance improvements through reduced memory usage; improved usability compliant with the GNOME Human Interface Guidelines; more available software and better localisation; changes in default software selection (Transmission, Rhythmbox, Brasero...); upstream improvements, including the PulseAudio sound server and a new command-line firewall configuration tool. Read the brief release announcement and check out the comprehensive release notes for further information.
Linux Mint has been rated as one of the friendliest Linux distribution on the market.
(full image size: 553kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
Damn Small Linux 4.4
Robert Shingledecker has announced the release of Damn Small Linux 4.4, a Debian-based mini-distribution for the desktop. What's new? "New Lua/Fltk re-factored for enhanced performance; new Fltk library now available for C/C++ programs; new fldiff - a file diff GUI viewer; update to rsync 3.0.2; updated mydslBrowser - new feature 'Download Only'; modified 'X Window Snapshot' to save image file with date; added dfm association for easy display of 'X Window Snapshot' images; restored Firefox default search engines; new low resource background and theme; new font added, smoothansi, used in JWM menu; new .luafltkrc for Lua/Fltk theme and defaults; updated dmix; modified nfs-common to also start Portmap when needed; patched kbdconfig to properly select keymaps; modified .bash_profile to eliminate an extra login shell...." See the full changelog for further details.
Damn Small Linux 4.4 - the default desktop
(full image size: 124kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| DistroWatch.com News |
Annual package database update
It's June again, which means another annual package database update on DistroWatch. Unlike the past years, we haven't received too many requests for package tracking, with only a few strong candidates for inclusion (HAL and PulseAudio). Several packages could be removed - these include Beryl (merged with Compiz), gFTP and GQview (these two packages seem to have fallen out of favour with many users who prefer more modern and feature-full applications). But as always, no final decision has been made, so if you want a package added or if you want to keep any, speak now (you can comment in the forum below or email us directly, see the bottom of this page for the email address). Those packages that receive most votes will be included, but if yours doesn't make the cut, please remember that it's impossible to please everybody. Happy voting!
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New distributions added to waiting list
- PING. PING (Partimage Is Not Ghost) is a Linux live CD designed to make it easy to backup and restore hard disk partitions. It is based on Linux From Scratch.
- ZevenOS. ZevenOS is a new Linux distribution with software optimised for slower computers and with elements of BeOS. Web site in German only.
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DistroWatch database summary
And this concludes the latest issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 16 June 2008.
Ladislav Bodnar
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • It's better with Windows (by Debianux on 2008-06-09 10:07:08 GMT from Switzerland)
Thanks for this very interesting DWW issue! "It's better with Windows" so I won't buy the new ASUS Eee PC 1000... It's a pity...
Greetings form the EURO 08 city Berne ;-)
2 • EEE PC (by jollyx on 2008-06-09 10:16:28 GMT from Spain)
I was going to buy an Asus EEE PC but now I will have to wait a bit more. Personally don't like Acer's products but will bet on their Linux mini notebook.
3 • MSI Wind (by Jimbo on 2008-06-09 10:39:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
The MSI Wind not mentioned in the article is the current best mini notebook on the market, check it out.
4 • Mint 5 (by Steven Robinson on 2008-06-09 10:42:57 GMT from United Kingdom)
Mint 5 has continued the tradition of Mint being the greatest Linux distro out there. This thing is great, installed it last night and it's just such a great out of the box experience, it's like the easy to use Linux distro we have been waiting for. I cant wait to read the distrowatch review as I'm sure it will score very highly.
5 • Re# Mint 5 (by Glenn on 2008-06-09 11:08:22 GMT from Canada)
Hi.
I tend to agree on the ease of installation with respect to the systems I run at home.
I'm not going to go into much detail but one item that I found really attractive was the ability to use the Windows Wireless Drivers at installation which successfully added my Linksys WUSB300N's from the Drivers folder I had previously downloaded from Linksys.
I liked that a lot. Very convenient. For the total install, I was up and running in about 20-25 minutes on each system, including the installation of my business applications.
Nice.
Glenn
6 • ASUS (by Werner Hug on 2008-06-09 11:31:35 GMT from Switzerland)
Many sincere thanks for having the courage to point out the situation with ASUS. None of all the other "Linux-friendly" publications discussing Netbooks at Computex had it.
I was about to buy an EeePC, something which will not happen now.
7 • Limpuss Linux (by Udo on 2008-06-09 11:43:37 GMT from Germany)
Acer is mistaken ..
basing products on Fedora with just 13 months of support is not really sane. They should stick to CentOS or Ubuntu LTS or something with longer support.
Having lots of unsecured netbooks with Linux all around will just give Linux a bad name.
Very bad decision IMHO.
8 • Re #4 Mint 5 (by S.M.A on 2008-06-09 11:45:57 GMT from Romania)
Being one of the most popular distributions does not make it the greatest. Some of us are "waiting" for something other than "easy to use out of the box", like efficiency, maturity, innovation.
As for the ASUS Eee PC, I wasn't planning on buying one before reading this article, am not planning on buying one now. I just don't see me having any use for such a device.
9 • shame about Asus, good about choice (by Ken Yap on 2008-06-09 11:47:11 GMT from Australia)
That's a shame about the Asus EEEs, I was considering the 900. But since there are alternatives springing up, and some of them offering very desirable low power consumption, I think I will wait.
Another thing happening is that these netbooks are starting to be offered as incentive to take up some other product or service, i.e. the mobile phone marketing model where something is provided at cost or below to sell something else. Interesting times.
Re the disappearance of Linux powered EEEs, this seems to be the pattern with hardware manufacturers, as soon as a Linux powered machine turns up, the M$ sales rep turns up too. Around here, some retailers were selling the Acer 4315 notebook with Ubuntu preloaded. Of late they have disappeared and retailers are offering the 5315 with Vista Home and cashback rebate. What it must be costing M$ to prop up sales with rebates. If M$ had any sense they would offer XP, but no, the dogma is that Vista must be pushed.
10 • Good by eee (by Leo on 2008-06-09 12:00:09 GMT from United States)
Ladislav
As usual, your integrity is a blessing. I bought an eeepc I love, but I'll look somewhere else next time. Maybe the acer. A big selling post was the low cost. I just spilled orange juice on the keyboard, and I have to say, I felt bad, but I would have felt a lot worse had it been 50% more expensive (like the new models)
I am outraged at Asus' attitude. Linux allowed them to put together a product that changed their mass consumer market perception. A fast, efficient, economic device, where you can customize (as a vendor) software at will. The sold a million or so, they couldn't even keep up with the market. But, oh, they needed Windows to make it better ? And turn it into a product that costs 50% to 100% more ????
By the way, I hope the acer has more open hardware, I've been playing over the weekend, trying to install Kubuntu on an external USB drive, and it was no fun at all!
Cheers,
Leo
11 • Mini PC (by Troy Banther on 2008-06-09 12:02:05 GMT from United States)
More than a Linux notebook or laptop, I want an ultra low-powered Mini PC. Something like the Koolu Works Everywhere Appliance.
This may surprise some non-US Linux users but there are some people in the US who don't believe in having the latest and greatest PC system, laptop or desktop, that takes an entire power grid use.
If anyone has built a low-powered Mini PC running Linux, I would like to read about what you built.
Troy in Portales, New Mexico
12 • Good by eee (2) (by Leo on 2008-06-09 12:02:22 GMT from United States)
forgot to add, after removing the keyboard and most of the keys, and a cleanup, it is kind of working (some keys you have to hard press hard, some I needed to pad internally a bit to make better contact, no fun!
So, if you have an eee, go out there and get a key cover :-)
13 • Mini-laptop and choice of distros (by Kevin on 2008-06-09 12:06:16 GMT from Canada)
I understand that anyone can brew their own distro (linux, BSD). But, for a computer manufacturer, wouldn't it be easier to sign a contract with one of the established distributions (Suse excluded) ?
It must be disheartening for companies like Red Hat and Mandriva to be ignored despite their achievements.
Congratulations to Mandriva. I feel almost guilty for switching to Ubuntu recently. Let's just say that I had to try Hardy Heron just to see why ubunteros were making such a racket on the internet.
14 • Gentoo delays (by former Gentoo user on 2008-06-09 12:21:57 GMT from Sweden)
What can one say ...
After being a devoted gentoo user for a long, long time i am now saying bye bye.
Too much of all this nonsense and then some nothing with silence in beetween.
Today is a fine day to switch!
15 • SUSE vs. Ubuntu packages (by Rahim on 2008-06-09 12:32:23 GMT from Ecuador)
I found the list of SUSE package sources to be very interesting. I personally have had a very good experience with Ubuntu, except for one glaring annoyance- it is very difficult to find packages of current software. Ubuntu's policy of freezing the entire repository until the next release (six months later) is understandable, but it also means that users miss out on important software updates to programs like office suites and web browsers. Ubuntu's backports repo is virtually useless, they add very few packages to it, and only do so after a user begs them to do so. And there are no extensive 3rd party package repos for Ubuntu, just a million different little PPAs that contain poorly packaged, unmaintained software. I might switch to SUSE 11.0, primarily because of Packman and other high quality 3rd party repos available for SUSE.
16 • #11 low powered PC (by michael J King at 2008-06-09 12:40:14 GMT from United Kingdom)
Asus are bringing out a low powered PC next month with Linux or for more money XP OS, something that looks like an wii ironically,
It will have the intel atom processor which is what you are looking for.
The Zombu is a linux based system already available but less cheap.
I really hope Asus haven't completely sold out with the eee pc--at least they are still offering a choice.
17 • Mint 5 (by AMar on 2008-06-09 12:41:49 GMT from Bosnia and Herzegovina)
Mint 5 comes with all codec packs right? I might install it,but dont have internet conn. available all day and I need to be able to watch .avi .mpg .wmv etc .. Is this available out of the box ? Thanks
18 • Overreact much? (by Sam Stokes on 2008-06-09 12:43:30 GMT from United States)
I'm a little surprised by the diatribe against Asus. Okay, promoting Windows on a product that launched with Linux is a little low, but give them a little credit for actually launching a Linux product in the first place. I'm all for balanced evangelism (if that's not an oxymoron), but their actions speak louder than their words.
It's not as if the original Eee shouted about the fact it ran Linux - ISTR the slogan was something about ease of use, not "stick it to da man" - but Asus probably sold more computers with pre-installed Linux than any other computer manufacturer ever (source: numbers I just made up). They've got all the other guys building Linux laptops (not saying they wouldn't have done it anyway, but Asus got there first, which takes guts). Indeed the Eee probably has a lot to do with Microsoft's new concession that Linux really is an alternative.
It's not as if Linux is no longer an option on the new models - indeed they seem to have gone out of their way to position Linux as a lower-cost alternative (by means of tying the better hardware to Windows, which I'm less happy about). Maybe the sales figures will speak for themselves.
If the prices end up too high, then maybe the people who bought the original Eee precisely because of its low price (myself included) will buy something else instead. Good for the other manufacturers, good for competition, good for consumers. Whoever makes it, the laptop that wins on price is probably going to be running Linux, and that's good for open source too.
19 • Asus (by Dante on 2008-06-09 13:01:40 GMT from Netherlands)
he everyone,
I thought of Asus to become a real linux promoter. Now it stabs the community in the back? I am disappointed.
One positive thing about this is that I now only have to choose between the MSI wind or the Aspire one.
Cheers,
Dante
20 • Re: #11 Mini PC (by Sam Stokes on 2008-06-09 13:10:14 GMT from United States)
If you want a *really* low-powered PC, you could take a look at the Linksys NSLU-2 plus a USB hard drive. It's sold as a NAS device, but there's a large community of people who nuke the default firmware and stick a standard Linux distro on instead (Debian works nicely): http://www.nslu2-linux.org/
Be aware the specs are pretty low - processor MHz in the low hundreds, 32MB RAM, but with a bit of swap you'd be surprised what you can use that for. If you're feeling adventurous you can add more RAM and overclock. On the plus side it's fanless and totally silent, although not if you do what I did and plug in a USB hard drive that sounds like a vacuum cleaner.
That said, I'm probably going to replace mine with an Eee Box (or similar). Running Debian of course.
21 • Re #18 Overreact much (by Glenn on 2008-06-09 13:13:55 GMT from Canada)
Hi Sam.
I like your comment on this topic. I do feel though that the preponderence of ITS BETTER WITH WINDOWS posters is bound to evoke strong antipathy from Linux users so I do not think it is an over reaction; especially when the product enjoyed a was highly launch with an embedded Linux Operating system.
Opinion.
I guess if there were a number of ITS BETTER with (_________) insert distro here we'd feel better but there are no large linux distros that can afford to compete with that amount of paid advertising if thats what I suspect it was. If Asus continues to offer the Linux eeePC then I really have no strong complaints about Asus.
Otherwise as noted above, other manufacturers (Acer) are getting on board so in effect the Linux mini laptop looks to have a good future.
glenn
22 • Acer_notebooks+Linpus Ubiquity. (by LinuxSeekers on 2008-06-09 13:15:01 GMT from Malaysia)
Thanks for the interesting report! In Malaysia, the Eee PCs are being sold EVEN IN CELL PHONE shops.
However, I am more interested in the Acer notebooks pre-installed with Linpus Linux. I've noticed that Acer has been FEARLESSLY selling notebooks pre-installed with Linpus Linux for the past few years. I bought one 2 years ago but was disappointed with the usability of Linpus Linux. Acer could have used another distro!
23 • Linux Mint and Ubuntu, what's up? (by mikewhatever on 2008-06-09 13:21:55 GMT from Israel)
How do you guys know the latest Mint is Ubuntu 8.04 based? I've just read the About Us page and the release note, but could not find that info. The only way Ubuntu seems to be related is that Mint is compatible with Ubuntu's repositories. Could it be that mint is Debian based and simply uses Ubuntu's repositories?
http://www.linuxmint.com/about.php
http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_elyssa.php
24 • Very dissapointed and concerned about the present situation. (by Joe Linux on 2008-06-09 13:27:22 GMT from United States)
What concerns me is that even if Linux is offered. It's offered only on bottom end hardware. For example HP only offers smaller batteries, slower processors, and less storage on the Linux models. The situation is completely anti-competitive, and does not offer free and fair choice to consumers. As usual Micro$oft is using unfair trade practices to maintain their monopoly over the computer OS market. What ever happened to WordPerfect ?
25 • SO sad for Asus... (by Kensai on 2008-06-09 13:36:51 GMT from Puerto Rico)
So sad for Asus, I just were thinking of buying an Asus Eee PC but since they betrayed the Linux community I will go for the Acer one. Betraying the Linux community is not offering Windows as an alternative cause they are free to make money out of it. But betraying the Linux community happened when they suddenly forgot all the success Linux gave to their laptop and sold out to Microsoft. They suddenly don't know Linux now, and "it's better with Microsoft" is the new thing.
In the other hand is so good seeing how when I started with Linux Microsoft never cared about Linux at all, now they are going trhough a battle trying to keep up. But we all know at the end that Microsoft is a company, Linux is a bunch of companies, ideologies and community. So how can one company defeat that?
26 • Re #23 Linux Mint whats up? (by glenn on 2008-06-09 13:38:55 GMT from Canada)
12. LTS aspects
Hi Mike.
Here is a quote found on link
http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_elyssa.php#newFeatures
Linux Mint 5 Elyssa is built on top of the Ubuntu Hardy Heron package base. Hardy is a Long Term Support (LTS) release, meaning that it will be supported and it will receive security and package updates for the next 3 years.
Glenn
27 • EEE No (by Gene Venable on 2008-06-09 13:43:08 GMT from United States)
You can add me to the list of people considering buying an eee Pc who are no longer considering it, largely because of DistroWatch. Wind goes to the top of my personal list, though I may buy the Windows version to get the better specs and replace Windows with Linux.
28 • openSuSE Repo List (by Big Dave on 2008-06-09 13:53:08 GMT from United States)
openSuSE has had a list of additional YAST repos for a few years posted here.
http://en.opensuse.org/Additional_YaST_Package_Repositories
Or you can get to the list by Googling "addional YAST"
It includes repos not listed in the wiki linked to above.
29 • Bye Bye, eee Pc! (by tervel on 2008-06-09 13:59:25 GMT from Austria)
You can add me to the list too. I'm going now for the MSI Wind or the alternatives.
30 • EEE (by texasmike on 2008-06-09 14:01:48 GMT from United States)
I had thought about purchasing an Asus EEE laptop. Glad I didn't. I purchased a Thinkpad ( R61i ) instead.
31 • Betrayed? (by Omari on 2008-06-09 14:09:20 GMT from United States)
I don't understand the sentiment of how ASUS "betrayed" the Linux community, as though the Linux community promised ASUS something. ASUS never promised to use Linux forever; they never pledged allegiance to Linux; it's not even as though Linux users or developers have sunk a ton of money into the eee platform (if you can even call it that.)
ASUS was using Linux because it made business sense. MS is probably giving ASUS a deep discount for XP, so now they're using it. That just makes me shrug; I don't understand the hard feelings.
I think OLPC presents a more likely "betrayal" scenario; on the other hand I don't understand what the big deal is with ASUS putting Windows on their laptops. Why do Linux users feel threatened when a company chooses Windows? It's as though we are afraid that Linux really is inferior. Linux has its own positive attributes and all the MS bashing is just immature.
32 • thanks for the heads up (by Jason on 2008-06-09 14:11:35 GMT from United States)
I was warming up to the eeePC now that free software drivers were coming out for it. Thanks for the heads up, I've cooled on it again.
I'll take a careful look at Acer.
33 • How about One A110? (by Béranger on 2008-06-09 14:23:45 GMT from Romania)
I am surprised nobody ever noticed the One A110:
http://www.one.de/shop/product_info.php?cPath=131&products_id=2667
It's NOT the "One" you're thinking of, it's by Brunen IT Distribution Gmbh, and here's a review by Uwe Hermann ("One A110 mini-laptop with pre-installed Linux for 199.- plus Debian installation HOWTO"):
http://www.hermann-uwe.de/blog/one-a110-mini-laptop-with-pre-installed-linux-for-199-plus-debian-installation-howto
34 • Linux Mint is a fork of Ubuntu Edgy (by bob on 2008-06-09 14:28:15 GMT from Australia)
Linux Mint is a fork of Ubuntu Edgy, which is compatible with the Ubuntu Hardy repos, thats about it. The mint team have tested debian as a base, but aren't happy changing to debian.
35 • Over-reaction to Asus "Betrayal" (by Ubu Walker on 2008-06-09 14:32:23 GMT from United States)
Using open-source is supposed to be a choice. The freedom to choose the software (or hardware) you want to use, for whatever purpose you want to use it. Asus is now offering BOTH Windows XP and Linux on its Eee PC.
How is it a betrayal if Asus offers Linux and is promoting Linux?
From http://eeepc.asus.com/global/900.htm:
* Eee PC 900 comes in both Microsoft Windows® and GNU Linux versions.
* The Microsoft Windows® version provides a familiar Windows® interface for experienced users – incorporating Windows® Live features like Windows® Live Messenger and Windows® Live Mail; and Microsoft Works for numerous office applications.
* The GNU Linux version provides an intuitive user interface to accommodate both experienced and inexperienced PC users. With over 40 built-in applications, it offers dynamic computing to learn, work and play; while a fast boot-up time makes it ideal for quick Internet access while waiting for public transport or taking notes on-the-go.
36 • Three Thumbs Down (by Sam on 2008-06-09 14:45:06 GMT from United States)
I guess I'm glad I bought my eeePC when I did. Rather the joy of paying a Xandros tax than a Microsoft tax (I replaced Xandros with eeeXubuntu on mine within an hour of opening the box) eh?
Thumbs down on Asus.
And thumbs down to the whole nation of Brazil. Looking at Resulinux we seem to have a trend in recent Brazilian linux distros aping the Windows Vista interface. Seriously folks, is Vista THAT good a product that you think Linux would be better if it resembled Vista more? What does that say for what you think of linux? What about creativity in interface design? Heck, what about at least aping a decent interface like OS X ?
And a thumbs down to Distrowatch for repeatedly featuring these crappy Brazilian Vista-wannabe linux distros. Aren't there other distros submitted which merit a screenshot, distros that don't look a thing like Vista? Why the repeated deference to these Vista-clones? Or are you trying to demonstrate a danger of Linux-aping-Vista by featuring so many screenshots of these distros? I think the former and not the later as I'm remembering a Distrowatch column in Linux Format featuring one of these distros (one that used one of the standard Vista wallpapers at that).
37 • 14 • Gentoo delays (by former Gentoo user) (by Anonymous on 2008-06-09 14:56:07 GMT from France)
I curious, why were you using Gentoo until now?
Which distro will you use instead? Or will you just quit linux?
38 • Google (by Jesse on 2008-06-09 15:00:52 GMT from Canada)
Am I the only one that can't say Google Gadets with a straight face? It sounds like a cross between a baby cooing and a famous cartoon detective.
39 • Low cost lappies and Linux (by voislav on 2008-06-09 15:12:08 GMT from Canada)
I don't get why people get so worked up with ASUS. They do whatever they think is in their best interest. And you know what, since there is obviously a demand for low cost laptops running Linux someone else, in this case Acer, stepped in to fill the void. For my part I'm happy that M$ is doing this because they are losing money on every laptop and when the customer buys a laptop that takes 10 minutes to boot because it's running Vista on underpowered hardware he's certainly not going to be happy.
Meanwhile just wait for the new Mobile Internet Devices (oh, no these are not laptops, because that would break some sort of agreement) that Nvidia is going to be doing using their new ARM chip. Linux is going to be the ONLY platform for these (unless you want Windows CE) and they will kick ass in term of power consumption.
40 • FreeBSD tentative release schedule (by nix on 2008-06-09 15:28:07 GMT from United States)
FreeBSD 7.1 and 6.4 August 2008
FreeBSD 7.2 February 2009
FreeBSD 8.0 June 2009
http://www.freebsd.org/releng/index.html
41 • RE @31 & 35, You missed the point. (by Anonymous on 2008-06-09 15:34:28 GMT from United States)
Ok so Asus is still going to offer linux as another os to choose from. You miss the point here. The hard feelings are not because they are going to offer MS Windows, its because of the back seat position they have given linux. They took an opensource os to promote their product, (less risk on losing money), made a name for the product that was successful because of the os.(windows would not work on their first versions), and now thats its a hit MS digs deep into their pockets and Asus puts linux in the back of the bus. Did you not even read the Feature Story? I believe that kind of tells the story of how Asus thinks of linux. Sad indeed.
42 • RE @34 LinuxMint 5 is a fork built on Ubuntu 8.04 base. (by Anonymous on 2008-06-09 15:39:56 GMT from United States)
The new LinuxMint 5 in built on the Ubuntu 8.04 LTS Hardy base.
43 • Ubuntu Netbook Remix (by jack on 2008-06-09 15:43:10 GMT from Canada)
Just read a review of this:
http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/ubuntu_netbook_remix_detailed_explanation
[quote]
...installing Ubuntu on the EeePC is a royal pain,...
...I think supporting at least the most common sub-notebook platforms (or even platform) would have been a really good move....
...These are all things that should work “out of the box”: either straight out of Ubuntu, or with an extra script that does all the “tidying up”.[end quote]
These comments make me see my ignorance re software.
The Ubuntu forums have a lot of posts about 8.04 "freezing". A fequent response is that no linux can work with all the hardware that exists.
Fair enough; but that response does not apply to this version which is directed at a particular piece of hardware.
So howcome they are unable to get the OS to work ?
I have been wanting to update my 6.06 but every time there seem to be many people who have problems with the next version.
If it is not possible to get this eee version to install with no problems on the hardware that it was designed for; what hope is there for any more general version?
44 • Second time they screw Xandros (by Leo on 2008-06-09 15:44:01 GMT from United States)
This is gotta be lovely for Xandros. First, they sign the pact with MS. Next, when the EEE is Xandtos only, they start giving away to eeepc buyers in the US (newegg), for a steep discount on XP, bundled with the eee, intendend to remove Xandros. Now this. They should have know better! Corporations are as bad or evil as their leaders. MS has shown many, many times, what kind of leadership it has.
45 • RE:35 • Over-reaction to Asus "Betrayal" (by Dante on 2008-06-09 15:45:46 GMT from Netherlands)
Asus Eee pc was a linux-laptop and optionally you could choose MS-windows. Now it is becoming a Windows laptop with as option linux. And this option is not even available PC 1000. Sorry Ubu, but I think this is bad promotion.
Cheers,
Dante
46 • @13 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-06-09 15:53:57 GMT from Canada)
Actually, if you take a look at the Mandriva ten year anniversary story, you'll notice this fleeting line:
"We also got to test the GDium, a laptop which runs Mandriva (exclusively)."
the GDium is one of these mini-laptops. See, for instance, http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/21/emtecs-gdium-em-pc-laptop-does-not-look-like-the-eee/ .
47 • @46 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-06-09 15:55:41 GMT from Canada)
Bit more - there's a video of the GDium here:
http://www.dailymotion.com/cluster/tech/video/x5otw4_git-review-du-gdium_tech
anyone familiar with Mandriva will notice quite a few familiar bits. :)
48 • gftp and gqview (by Bryan on 2008-06-09 16:12:17 GMT from United States)
I am still using gftp and gqview. I have started using konqueror for its fish protocols and such, but what are people using instead of these venerable program?
49 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-06-09 16:13:23 GMT from Canada)
mint simply put is a better version of ubuntu - the extra time between releases to squash bugs plus a better app selection plus codecs =
ubuntu _+1
50 • @ 31 (by someone on 2008-06-09 16:31:11 GMT from Aruba)
Exactly. The Linux community always likes to blow things out of proportions. I don't understand why some behave like such a bunch of tight asses. Windows, whether you like it or not, is used by the vast majority of people. I'm glad that Asus offers the choice of Linux on their mini-notebooks, but I'm also quite aware that it's not the solution for everybody.
51 • This week in Linux World News... (by Rayna on 2008-06-09 16:35:41 GMT from United States)
... while I had big hopes for the eee, I'm disappointed in Asus. Maybe the masses will speak? But on the releases, I'm kind of give and take with any of the Ubuntu distros. They've been decent overall, but still rather bloated when it comes to resources. I was quite pleased with Pardus 2007 and used it for almost a year before I had to give up my laptop. Since getting my new one, 2007 was not happy with it. 2008 (and it's fairly new kernel) played rather nicely and looked wonderful. The installer is well done and murdur is still one of my favorite features with this distro. Kudos to all.
52 • Loss-Leader (Asus) (by dialup on 2008-06-09 16:36:17 GMT from United States)
Asus simply used a standard merchandising technique ... temporarily selling a product at low (or no) profit as a technique to build business. Shuttle has done the same with the KPC. Both products were somewhat crippled so as not to cannibalize sales of thier higher profit products, either already on the market or pending.
Asus is in business to make money. I can't quote any stats, but am reasonably sure that most purchasers of their products (directly or in a pre-built system) run a MS/OS. Asus is a DIYer-friendly - and to some extent Linux-friendly - company. Sure, lobby Asus to (continue to) use components that have Linux drivers But Imo a boycott of an Asus product(s) would send the message that Linux users are fickle and more trouble than we're worth.
If one scans through Eee purchaser reviews at a site like NewEgg, having Linux pre-installed hasn't discouraged those who prefer XP. They either replaced Linux or are dual-booting.
53 • @Former Gentoo User (by Still a Gentoo User on 2008-06-09 16:39:59 GMT from United States)
You do know that Gentoo is a meta distribution, so releases usually don't mean squat. Its constantly being updated with new packages, and they have 2008.0 Beta 2 live CDs.
I'm still a new Gentoo user, I've been using it since Ubuntu 8.04 wouldn't even work on my computer.
54 • M$ Bashing?? (by fstephens on 2008-06-09 17:01:11 GMT from United States)
#31 I understand you points about ASUS and perhaps it is more disappointment than betrayal we feel. Linux has too few friends in the hardware world and I think people thought we now had a new champion. Too bad they couldn't bet on Linux exclusively, but Microsoft IS a monopoly, and so most people expect Windows. At least there is the option with the Eee PC.
As far as Microsoft "bashing" goes, they richly deserve all the scorn that can be heaped on them. I have been exploring all the reasons Microsoft is hated (or should be) for a blog post at:
http://LinuxLatitude.blogspot.com
Still rough and incomplete, but more than enough reasons to avoid the monster.
55 • linux (by pete on 2008-06-09 17:51:47 GMT from Austria)
linux isn't ready for the desktop . i used suse for over 2 years and overall it was a pain in the a** . i went back to windows vista after getting tired of compiling and using the bash , and resolving (or not ) a hell of dependencies . linux has a marketshare of 1% and there is a reason for this . free doesn't always mean better .
56 • RE @49 LinuxMint = Ubuntu +1 (by Anonymous on 2008-06-09 17:54:35 GMT from United States)
Agree. Its kind of hard to get use to the bottom menu bar thing. I wish they would have kept it on top.
57 • RE @55 I don't think so. (by Eddie on 2008-06-09 18:04:35 GMT from United States)
Why did you wait two years to dump linux? It sounds like you just didn't know what you were doing and no you didn't go back to Vista. You never left Vista. It hasn't been around for 2 years. Poor, poor SuSe. See what happens when you sign up with Microsoft. But I believe most SuSe users would tell you that you didn't even try. Don't give me any crying and don't give me any numbers troll because you just sound completely made up.
58 • @55 (by Anonymous on 2008-06-09 18:25:21 GMT from France)
First off, Suse is not linux. Second off, linux is ready for several hundreds of million of desktops. Third off, linux has no marketshare because it's not on the market. Fourth of, your problems with dependancies happen because you don't know how to use it. And lastly, you don't have to compile and use bash if you don't want to just because you use linux.
I linke bash and compiling, that is why I do that even on Windows at work (thanks cygwin!)
Windows is not ready for my desktop. I tryed installing it, but it wouldn't even boot the CD. I've tryed in a virtual box, but I got tyred of virii, unconsistant apps, batch commands (seriously, don't tell me batch doesn't suck!), general lack of good apps and the poor user interface (only one desktop, seriously!)
Maybe Windows is for you, but it's not for me. Anyway, good luck with Vista.
59 • Zenwalk source (by Claus Futtrup on 2008-06-09 19:12:41 GMT from Denmark)
Did anybody here notice that Zenwalk 5.2 was released with direct access to the source?
http://download.zenwalk.org/source/
Best regards,
Claus
(a Zenwalker)
60 • ASUS EEE (by Alan on 2008-06-09 19:18:03 GMT from United Kingdom)
"It's better with Windows"
"ASUS recommends Windows for everyday computing"
Ok, so ASUS are at liberty to recommend any OS they want.
However, to promote Windows as "better" is a joke, right ???
We have a Trade Descripton Act here in the UK to restrict this
kind of advertising.
Regards,
Alan.
61 • gentoo (by quickshade on 2008-06-09 19:35:13 GMT from United States)
Wow, when someone just comes out and calls his developers lazy, you know you have a problem.
62 • SUSE (by quickshade on 2008-06-09 19:40:37 GMT from United States)
@ 58, how is SUSE not Linux???
63 • Mint 5.0 (by Paul on 2008-06-09 19:44:45 GMT from United States)
Mint 5.0, I downloaded immediately and tried it on my brand new Toshiba Satellite. This Toshiba was so cheap (to purchase) that I consider it a throw-away computer. Just the thing for trying out new Linux distros. I haven't found any yet that will use the included Realtek wireless device. Mandriva 2008.1 is the only distro that recognizes my ancient Netgear 802.11b receiver. I liked Mint 4, but now that I have a laptop, I see that connectivity is another parameter that needs to be addressed. And yes, I have tried all the screwing around with the .inf files, loading the jadams modified driver, etc. None of this stuff works. It is not that I don't like carrying around my ancient Netgear thingy. But if distros want to be popular, they ought to work well on cheap throw-away computers. No?
64 • @62 (by Anonymous on 2008-06-09 19:57:46 GMT from France)
SUSE USES linux. Linux is the kernel around which Suse is built. dependancies and userland problems. Linux has no such problem. bash is part of SUSE but not part of linux. Ubuntu and Mandriva are not SUSE but they also use Linux. If you have a problem with SUSE, it is not necessarily because of Linux (and it the case of the other guy, it was obviously a problem specific to userland and not Linux). That guy should maybe try another distro or two before deciding that linux suck.
65 • Selling Out VS Sold Out.... (by Landor on 2008-06-09 20:00:45 GMT from Canada)
Asus has been around for a long long time. I've used nothing but Asus boards and some components in my systems I build for as long as I can remember. That being said the company is in the business (as I've said for Novell too) of making money, and have been doing just that long before Linux hit any popularity level. If this site was about cars and people were all Ford Pinto fans would they bash Ford for dropping the Pinto product line and focusing on more asthetically pleasing cars, or more economic, as is the current trend? It was stated here (I forget when) and if I remember correctly a link was posted to verify it, that 60% of the systems had Linux removed and Windows put in it's place. The money market for those companies points towards Windows, a financial reality. That day may change, but right now it hasn't. So people should put the effort of bashing that reality/boycotting manufacturers aside aside and focus on changing it.
I read the blog regarding Gentoo a day or so ago and read it again just now. What comes to light is the fact that people easily forget the sheer amount of effort involved in a project as encompassing as Gentoo is. So many architectures to build for, all the different teams for them involved. Syncing all that into a cohesive effort. No to mention the fact that it's a volunteer project where people have jobs, school, family, other commitments. What I didn't like was when the man spoke of is laziness. "If" he was not speaking of himself then I don't think it's a fair thing to just put on a blog without accurate proof of the matter, especially being on a team. If I was on a team and read that, I wouldn't find it very constructive for the project on a whole and would put (as most of you have seen) my "zealous" energy to making sure it was dealt with apropriately.
Oh,, and something I forgot to add (and wanted to) to my last comment to you Ladislav, from last week's section. As I said, I'd defend anything I thought was wrong. I hope you didn't take offence to my comments. There was a time I even did for you if you remember.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
66 • @55 (by gnobuddy on 2008-06-09 20:01:04 GMT from United States)
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with Suse. After two years with Vista it will be interesting to see if you find you are having a better experience with Vista than you did with Linux (we all know any flavour of Windows comes with plenty of frustrations of its own). Either way, aren't you glad you have a choice?
My new laptop came with Vista. It looked pretty, and all the hardware worked, which was very nice. Unfortunately Vista was virtually useless to me, because it came with no email client, office suite, or compiler, so I couldn't actually do anything with it. It also came with no antivirus software - so I had to make sure the ethernet cable was unplugged and the WiFi access point turned off, because if I connected to the 'Net, I knew I could expect the first crackers to break into my laptop within minutes.
I now have Kubuntu on the laptop. Sure, there were some frustrations getting the widescreen 1440x900 display and AR5007 WiFi card to work. But once I got past those hurdles, I can actually use the laptop.
Linux has been ready for my desktop since 2001...that's when I first experienced less frustration with Linux (Mandrake 8.1) than with Windows, and I've hardly ever had to use Windows since.
-Gnobuddy
67 • ref 63 - so what happened with mint? (by Verndog on 2008-06-09 20:04:16 GMT from United States)
"Mint 5.0, I downloaded immediately and tried it on my brand new Toshiba Satellite. This Toshiba was so cheap (to purchase) that I consider it a throw-away computer...."
So what happened when you tried installing Mint 5.0? You didn't finished explaining. You went off about Mandriva, Netgear, and wireless. Maybe a simple solution awaits you with Mint.
68 • re:58 (by masher23 on 2008-06-09 20:11:15 GMT from Australia)
how can you call yourself a linux user when you cant even tell the difference between linux and MS SUSE is linux which shows how much you really know squat
69 • @63 (by gnobuddy on 2008-06-09 20:16:46 GMT from United States)
Paul said:
now that I have a laptop, I see that connectivity is another parameter that needs to be addressed.
if distros want to be popular, they ought to work well on cheap throw-away computers. No?
=============================
I agree with you on both counts. Clearly, we're not quite there yet. But: there has been enormous progress in this area, go back to 2003 and only a few hard-core Linux enthusiasts with a great deal of knowledge could manage to get Linux working on a laptop.
I bought an HP laptop recently, and tried several LiveCD's on it with no success - none of them picked up the wide-screen display correctly, and none got the AR5007 WiFi card working automatically either. Pretty frustrating. But the good news is that with a Kubuntu alternate AMD64 cd, an ethernet cable plugged into the (wired) ethernet port, and a few hours of hunting for information on the 'Net, I was eventually able to fix both issues.
So, things aren't perfect, but at least they're better than they used to be. (It helps that many oddball laptop hardware vendors went out of business over the last five years, so at least there aren't as many weird video and audio cards to support!)
-Gnobuddy
70 • re: 68 (by Anonymous on 2008-06-09 20:19:01 GMT from France)
Read #64
SUSE IS NOT LINUX
linux is linux and SUSE is SUSE.
linux is a kernel developed by linus Torvalds and others.
SUSE is a distro developped by Novell. See the difference?
71 • Re: Gentoo delays (by Randall on 2008-06-09 20:21:01 GMT from United States)
I'll admit that the lack of releases is probably a plausible reason to not switch to Gentoo at this point, but if you've already got a system, there's no reason to switch away from it; you only need the releases to do a fresh install. Heck, if the old 2007.0 CD works to boot your new system, there's really nothing (other than an updated installer) which the new release would give you. If you wanted to go really crazy, you could grab a Hardy Heron disk and install Gentoo from it. Basically, releases mean a whole lot less for Gentoo, and therefore don't get as much work or attention as they do in other distos. It's bad, but it's not as bad as it looks.
72 • @ 58 (by someone on 2008-06-09 20:50:38 GMT from Aruba)
You must be seriously delusional if you believe in what you've just said. Again, it's exactly this type of response which will continue to keep Linux from conquering most desktops. As long as you don't acknowledge that your distro isn't perfect, the common people will never even try out another O.S., let alone use it as their default.
73 • re: 56 LinuxMint (by Anonymous on 2008-06-09 21:18:05 GMT from Canada)
"... Its kind of hard to get use to the bottom menu bar thing. I wish they would have kept it on top."
1.put the cursor over the panel (now on the bottom)
2.left click and hold
3.drag the panel to the top
4.release
Does this make it better for you?
Any other problem? Mint forum is quite friendly.
74 • ASUS sold their soul to M$ (by Beatnik on 2008-06-09 21:42:04 GMT from Panama)
Well, I was glad of the initial success of ASUS EEE pc with linux, now they sold to m$, but we have good alternatives:
1- MSI Wind: to me the best option
2- HP mini: Open SUSE included
3- Acer One
4- Dell is coming with their Inspiron version to compete in the market
75 • Left down "start" button (by whocares on 2008-06-09 21:49:09 GMT from Finland)
I really dont understand why (MS) and many,many,many Linux distros keep by default their "start" buttons in left and down on the screen. Its really the most annoying thing. Its get no sense even its ridicilous to use mouse to click something in that bottom corner. Keep it UP!
76 • mini PC (by jaslar on 2008-06-09 22:15:35 GMT from United States)
# 11 - have you seen system 76's Koala mini?
http://system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=83
77 • ZevenOS anybody? (by Anonymous on 2008-06-09 22:53:36 GMT from Spain)
Hi,
It looks interesting, anybody tried it? What are the differences with a normal linux distro?
I once tried beos but it hadn't dialup CHAP support.
78 • Pardus 2008 RC1 available on schedule. (by chris on 2008-06-09 22:59:14 GMT from United States)
from
ftp://ftp.pardus.org.tr/pub/pardus/installcd/2008
chris
79 • gentoo & the restless users (by Anonymous on 2008-06-09 23:05:53 GMT from Canada)
Gentoo's problem is that the Linux users are a restless bunch (most of them). If everything works fine, they become bored. They start playing with the stuff until they break it. Then they start fixing it. They need something to install from time to time. Installing is their souls' food. Gentoo is not very generous when it comes to feeding the users' souls. It's like you go shopping not because you really need to buy anything, but just for the simple joy of having a new thing and playing with it for a while.
80 • No subject (by Randall on 2008-06-09 23:06:28 GMT from United States)
@75: Doesn't Ubuntu default to a upper-left menu nowadays? I don't know about other distros; I had a vague belief that Gnome in general does the upper-left thing, but I could be wrong.
81 • Re 7 & 50 (by Anon on 2008-06-09 23:23:22 GMT from United Kingdom)
7
I agree, distributions with long term support are the way to go, not everyone wants the latest and greatest or has the time or patience to mess about installing a new version.
60
I agree with your sentiment, but the show was in Taiwan (I think)
82 • Question for the MS bashers, how many of you use MSTTCOREFONTS..... (by Hypocrisy Lives! on 2008-06-09 23:26:50 GMT from Australia)
.....in your Linux distro?
I can't do without them and I am pretty sure most Linux users would admit to the same.
HP, for those who are singing their praises, just signed a deal with MS and NOT A WHISPER OF COMPLAINT to be heard from the RESIDENT NOVELL (and now ASUS) BASHERS ON DWW Comments section.
Live and Let Live!
83 • @82 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-06-09 23:30:31 GMT from Canada)
I don't. Never have. I like DejaVu (Bitstream Vera) rather a lot more.
84 • MSI WIND U100 - XP Home (by dialup on 2008-06-09 23:44:31 GMT from United States)
According to the MSI Global (en) website, the WIND U100 Notebook ships with Windows XP Home:
http://tinyurl.com/4b8p4w
Given that Microsoft has extended the availability XP Home for two years - for "low cost" computers - there will be few (if any) mini-notebook OEMs that offer only a Linux version.
85 • @83 Good for you, mate! But you are not exactly an ordinary/average linux user (by Linux Gurus Excluded on 2008-06-09 23:50:03 GMT from Australia)
....I stand by what I said.
And here is evidence to show how widespread their use is:
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=msttcorefonts+mandriva
Yes, current distros have improved their font rendering but the default distro setups still don't work good enough. Not even on sections of DW!
Live and Let Live!
86 • Ultra-portables and Linux (by Mick on 2008-06-09 23:58:12 GMT from Canada)
I just hope the Acer mini is a little more robust than the Aspire I just 'gave' my wife (I had to justify the T61 somehow!). I had a chance to go hands on with an EEE over the weekend; and the M$ just ain't doin' it for me...
Mick
87 • FYI: Microsoft Live Search Toolbar to Be Distributed on 2009 HP (by Live and Let Live on 2008-06-10 00:08:47 GMT from Australia)
Microsoft Live Search Toolbar to Be Distributed on 2009 HP ...
June 2, 2008 — Microsoft Corp. today announced that it has won a key distribution deal with HP, the world’s largest PC manufacturer, to install a Live ...
www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2008/jun08/06-02HPToolbarPR.mspx - 8k -
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=hp+microsoft+search+deal
88 • No subject (by NK on 2008-06-10 00:14:49 GMT from United States)
Horrible news on the Asus. If windows is so great, why am I using linux as I type this? I was thinking of getting one of these, but no more.
89 • Dell recommends Windows Vista® Home Premium. (by Ubuntu must be Traitors too? on 2008-06-10 00:34:36 GMT from Australia)
For dealing with dell.
You will find the following on top left corner of the linked page:
Dell recommends Windows Vista® Home Premium.
http://www.dell.com/content/default.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
Hypocrisy Lives
PS: Mandriva 2008.1 (Spring) just optimised their distro for the EeePC:
Mandriva 2008.1 works with EEE PCs | Eee PC - Blog
11 Mar 2008 ... Mandriva Linux 2008.1 is coming this April. One of the biggest new features is that it is 100% Eee-friendly. The Eee comes with a capable ...
eeepc.net/mandriva-20081-works-with-eee-pcs/
If you like the Eee PC, ie it suits your needs, why not buy it and install Mandriva or another suitable Linux distro on it? Screw the BOGUS MORALITY!!!
90 • No subject (by VRK on 2008-06-10 00:40:18 GMT from United States)
I use the DejaVu fonts over the MS core TT ones. I'd rather not install those. A EULA for a font? Give me a break. Also doesn't the HP Mini-note come with Novell SLED and not openSuSE? But then again if it does have SLED then it'll support openSuSE just fine. I went to HP's website and it was all about Vista but I got them to mention it had a Linux option, but never saw where to get that one. But to be fair, I didn't really look that hard.
91 • @90 EULA for a font (by Fonts should be free on 2008-06-10 01:33:29 GMT from United States)
I have seen places where they sell fonts for school systems, ie., TAKS tests. They recommend a Verdana type Font
see
http://kisd.esc18.net/education/components/scrapbook/default.php?sectiondetailid=1990
There are some PPT, and pdf that point out the same thing.
•· Verdana font and larger point size, more white space
I tried to find free fonts/open source fonts like the liberation fonts, but i guess I do not know for sure, but they might have bought some fonts for the entire school system. This should be unnecessary, but Testing is a big business and unfortunately more catered to Microsoft and Apple and very few to 0 support for Linux. :(
92 • @91 (by VRK on 2008-06-10 02:01:01 GMT from United States)
Wow, after researching it a little more I'm rather surprised. I had no idea fonts were such a lucrative business. Some of them are rather expensive. I shudder to think what Adobe must charge.
93 • Asus to embed Linux into all motherboards (by Lest We Forget on 2008-06-10 02:37:01 GMT from Australia)
Asus to embed Linux into all motherboards
Published: 16 May 2008
Asus is to embed a lightweight, instant-on version of Linux called "Splashtop" into all its motherboards, following good feedback from customers.
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000000091,39418766,00.htm
Shoot The Messenger
94 • Debian Lenny (by Gigi on 2008-06-10 03:14:07 GMT from Singapore)
Lenny Beta is out!!
It really interests me to read the release notes and find that there are only a handful of known issues for a beta. And these issues are mostly for non-mainstream setups.
Lenny is as stable as befits a Debian release ;-)
95 • re: 48 • gftp and gqview (by Peter Besenbruch on 2008-06-10 03:15:45 GMT from United States)
I am still using gftp and gqview. I have started using konqueror for its fish protocols and such, but what are people using instead of these venerable program?
I use Konqueror for FTP. It's a very good FTP client.
96 • RE: #89 EEE (by Anonymous on 2008-06-10 04:00:18 GMT from United States)
The problem is that another Mfg. has already paid for a unused M$ tax. Bundling has to stop.
97 • Zenwalk 5.2 (by Anonymous on 2008-06-10 04:09:30 GMT from United States)
I think it installed after a lot of (warning?) errors (inline gifs?) unprofessionally blasting down the screen scrolling off what was installing. With no status I thought it was never going to finish. It took over a hour.
It then borked on the boot loader again even though it detected another OS on the machine. There needs to be a bootloader wizzard/fixer/reinstaller on the main install menu (where the partitioner is). The FAQs online were a pain and did not apply to my install. Looked to me like empty folders or something. Will check the CD for a boot floppy image.
If not I'm downloading Mint 5.0 and will try this if it doesn't work. Too bad I was waiting 2 months for this version of Zenwalk to drop.
98 • Comparison of subnotebooks (by Gigi on 2008-06-10 04:47:49 GMT from Singapore)
A very informative comparison here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_subnotebooks
99 • please consider for package database (by lao on 2008-06-10 05:15:57 GMT from United States)
mc -this classic is IMHO a must especially on a live cd
100 • @72 (by Anonymous on 2008-06-10 05:35:01 GMT from France)
Where did I say that my distro is perfect?
What is wrong in my post? Do you believe that batch doesn't suck? You must be seriously delusional. Did you try bash? Seriously!
You believe it because I say that batch suck that linux won't conquer the world? Actually I don't care that linux doesn't conquer the desktops. It's fine on my desktop. It you prefer Windows, install Windows! Why do I have to read all those people who complain on linux sites that linux is not Windows? I'm quite happy with linux and bash is here to stay. If you prefer DOS commands, please please use Windows!
101 • Inaccuracies in Reporting (by Draca on 2008-06-10 06:14:56 GMT from United States)
The EEE PC 1000 is the Linux version. The EEE PC 1000H is the Windows version. The H stands for the Home Edition of Windows XP. All EEE PC product lines have a Linux and a Windows version, including the 900, 901, and 1000.
The new EEE PC product lines are getting physically bigger because enough buyers whined about the original EEE PCs (700, 701, 702) not having this or that hardware component. For instance, people wanted bigger screens, so ASUS brought out products with bigger screens.
By the way, if you have not noticed, ASUS has managed to keep the weight down in spite of the hardware additions. The 900 is only 0.18 lbs. heavier than the 701. Also, the Linux version of the 900 has better hardware than the Windows version. The Linux 900 has 20GB SSD, whereas the Windows 900 only has 12GB SSD. ASUS did that to maintain the same price for the 900 regardless of version, so the Linux 900 has more storage capacity than the Windows 900.
I understand about what ASUS displayed at Computex, but it is not the whole story.
102 • RE: 101 Inaccuracies in Reporting (by ladislav on 2008-06-10 06:22:51 GMT from Taiwan)
The EEE PC 1000H is the Windows version. The H stands for the Home Edition of Windows XP.
Not according to the spec sheet I picked up at the stand. The 1000H is listed as coming either with Linux or Windows, with the only difference between the two being the hard disk capacity (80GB for Windows, 160GB for Linux).
103 • Mint5... (by capricornus on 2008-06-10 06:23:10 GMT from Belgium)
... loading_
and that's it.
and the same on another pc:
...loading_
well, that's all, folks, that was it...
(still loading_)
104 • Display - displayconfig-gtk (by PF on 2008-06-10 06:28:07 GMT from Australia)
Display Config (Graphics Utility) MIA (Missing In Action) in Mint 5 and Ubuntu 8.04 and can be added by editing the menu and adding following as command to a new menu item: gksu /usr/bin/displayconfig-gtk
Mint devs (Clem) have/has done excellent job on the "Slab" menu! Much, much more usable than what openSUSE 11.0 rc1 has currently.
Nice work and all the best for this LTS Mint 5 edition!
105 • msttcorefonts and start in bottom left corner (by arno911 on 2008-06-10 06:35:21 GMT from Germany)
sidux comes with free software only, if you add nonfree repos and use the distris extras - script to install mplayer you'll get msttcorefonts, cause (s)(g)(k)(whatever)mplayer loves it. installing it with apt tells you its recommended, you can leave it out that way. I preferred the latter and use dejavu.
When i tried a Linux OS for my very first time, i got mad with the "intuitive" GNOME way and found it convenient with KDE having a mostly "Windows-like" Desktop. Just four of them! Ok, it was K for Kick a program to shut your Computer down instead of Start a program to shut your Computer down on Win, but thats basically the only difference. My feeling was: Cool, I switch from Windows to Linux despite what they are all saying and feel like home, even better!
But in any other scenario, if we are not talking about old Win users becoming new Linux users, its all about choice; make your Desktop your Desktop as you want it to be. I like my iconless Flux, you may "need" Compiz-Fusion to get things done ;)
have a nice one
arno911
106 • ref 103 ----- Mint 5.0 Locked & Loaded! (by Verndog on 2008-06-10 06:57:43 GMT from United States)
Sorry for your problems. I just installed Mint 5.0 in one of the fastest installs ever. The only one that comes close is Sidux!
I didn't give Mint much respect, giving that I like ubuntu 8.04 LTS so much, but I have to admit I really like it.
There's a dew quirks. Like one or two GUI doesn't work quite right. Maybe it just me. I was pleasantly surprised.
107 • @99 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-06-10 07:16:31 GMT from Canada)
...but it's not an especially useful package to track, as it releases new versions approximately once per ice age. Those of us who package it (yeah, I'm one of them, I pop up everywhere...) mostly use variously-dated CVS snapshots. And metric assloads of patches.
108 • @85 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-06-10 07:18:37 GMT from Canada)
Well, I don't see how one's status (or lack of it) as a 'Linux guru' (a status I'd heatedly disclaim, btw) is related to whether you feel the need for Microsoft fonts or not. Seems a purely aesthetic issue to me.
BTW, "Microsoft" fonts is kinda a misnomer. Sure, Microsoft own them, but they were mostly actually created by long-established font foundries, Microsoft just found some fonts they liked and bought the rights. So even if everyone in the world used them and couldn't possibly live without them, I don't quite see what point you're making. It's not like those same fonts wouldn't have existed without Microsoft, they would.
109 • @ 108 (by arno911 on 2008-06-10 07:30:24 GMT from Germany)
thats not the only thing they bought. ;-)
110 • Ubuntu....no way!! (by mika480 on 2008-06-10 08:32:36 GMT from Italy)
Really disappointed about Ubuntu 8.04..........
Why they don't care about quality instead of marketing?
Thumbs down!!!
111 • Lenny not shipping with KDE 4 (by RoachBoy on 2008-06-10 08:54:44 GMT from Kenya)
Looks like Debian Lenny won't be shipping with KDE 4 after all: http://ekaia.org/blog/2008/06/08/lets-go-for-kde-359-in-lenny/. I think this is a good decision. Debian's reputation for stability and reliability was on the line there.
112 • eeePC (by davecs on 2008-06-10 09:19:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
I already have my eeePC 900. Too late for me to boycott ASUS! I have to say, however, that if Asus had intended a truly open product, I think they would have chosen a more open Linux than Xandros, and they would have got the drivers "out there" much more quickly.
I found the "simple" Xandros interface rather frustrating. I know you can upgrade the somewhat choked Ice-WM interface to a more normal KDE one, but the problem with Xandros is that, as a regular Linux user, I prefer to be able to download and install what I want, through a simple software management system, and without breaking the system (which can happen if you use Debian or Ubuntu repos with Xandros).
I installed PCLinuxOS Mini-Me, with driver and hardware packages taken from eeePCLinuxOS. It seems that various drivers have been backported to Xandros' kernel, particularly sound, for which, without the patch, you need the 2.6.25 kernel. But the guys at eeePCLinuxOS are close to getting the acpi working with the new kernel, and I expect to have every feature up and running pretty soon.
What the eeePC 900 demonstrates though is the difference in power that Linux gives a computer over Windows. I really didn't expect Compiz-Fusion to work as well, if at all, on the eee but it does, very smooth effects. It's jaw dropping stuff to someone who is aware that the eeePC isn't powerful enough to run Vista, and that these effects are beyond the scope of Win XP.
Finally I'm not impressed with the larger eeePCs. For one reason: What's the point? The 1024-width screen on the 900 does what I need it to do, and a larger one just takes you into a zone where you may as well get a more normal laptop.
113 • gFTP (by Duhnonymous on 2008-06-10 10:09:21 GMT from United States)
There really isn't a better FTP client that uses Gnome/GTK+ than gFTP. I don't see how you can axe that one.
114 • @ 59: Zenwalk source ... (by Coffee on 2008-06-10 10:29:59 GMT from France)
> Did anybody here notice that Zenwalk 5.2 was
> released with direct access to the source?
> http://download.zenwalk.org/source/
... that's good news, ideed. The lack of available sources was a serious issue with previous Zenwalk releases. I'm glad that's been resolved. Béranger will be happy, too. :-)
115 • @17 Amar (by elcaset on 2008-06-10 13:42:11 GMT from United States)
I think Mint 5 can play .avi, .mpg, etc. out of the box. I haven't tried version 5, because I only use the KDE version of Mint (Mint KDE 5 hasn't been released yet).
Cheers,
elcaset of Kenmore
116 • include mc? (by jilisa on 2008-06-10 13:42:39 GMT from United States)
yes !
117 • RE: #111 (by Anonymous on 2008-06-10 13:58:54 GMT from Finland)
Sounds like a reasonable decision. If Lenny were to ship with kde 4.1, then it would have been stuck with it for the next 18 months (until the next stable debian release). But now kde 4.1 will be made available via Lenny-backports, and Lenny users can upgrade their version of kde from backports when 4.2 is released. Also the die-hards who'd rather stick with kde 3.5.9 will be happy now. :-)
118 • @ 100 (by someone on 2008-06-10 14:02:05 GMT from Aruba)
I'm glad that you admit that Linux won't conquer the desktop anytime soon. And guess what, nobody worth their salt uses DOS commands anymore, there's this thing called a GUI if you don't know. You should try it some time, it's what most people use.
119 • package database update: gnash, iceweasel, IceCat, audacious (by elcaset on 2008-06-10 14:18:59 GMT from United States)
Please include: gnash, iceweasel, IceCat, & audacious.
Thanks
120 • Mint (by Lim-Dul on 2008-06-10 15:10:59 GMT from Poland)
Yes, Mint plays every video file I've thrown at it out of the box - even WMV-s.
The nice thing about Mint is that it simply works. The last time I dual-booted Linux was back in the days of Ubuntu Edgy Eft and I got annoyed after a distro upgrade virtually DESTROYED my system so I would have had to make a fresh install and reconfigure everything. Went back to good old SLAX on a (USB) stick.
I don't know why people are dissing Mint for being so easy to use. You can still do EVERYTHING you want with it - it's Linux after all. The beauty lies in the thought that has been put into making the interface so intuitive and installing many features most end users take for granted by default.
I think that the "Mint is too simple, we want a "mature" distro" attitude is just a sign of the elitism that has stopped Unix-like systems from invading the desktop market for 40 years... If you want to run a server - choose another distro (although if you're an expert you will have no trouble installing and configuring all the packages on Mint either), if you want to have probably THE best and user-friendliest distro out there, then choose Mint. There might be some things you don't like about it - two clicks and you can change them.
"Normal" people don't want to waste their time to browse thousands of packages to find the right one and not everybody is a Linux guru. Mint makes the start far easier than any other distro and nothing is stopping you from becoming a Linux guru later. =)
After I had decided to look at how Linux is faring nowadays I really went through ALL the popular distros and Linux Mint was the one I was most impressed with. Following the KISS principle is not as easy as it sounds. Ah - another thing - Mint is almost like Zenwalk in that it usually comes with only one application per task, in most cases the one that has the right usability/feature balance, which is also nice... Of course absolutely nothing is stopping you from installing additional software you might need.
A really, really great distro. Somebody said in some article that if Linux were to ever take a larger chunk of the desktop user base then people like Clem, Texstar or Mark Shuttleworth will be the ones hailed as visionaries and heroes, not the people who made a 4-DVD, programmer-edition Linux distro with 50 installation steps.
121 • @48 package database (by john frey on 2008-06-10 15:19:48 GMT from Canada)
I'm a long time gftp user as well. Not too long ago I switched to the fireftp plugin for firefox. It is just as good as gftp and has a better interface for multiple downloads. Since firefox is one of my main applications I switched and have not used gftp recently. That said, gftp is a very nice program and well maintained. I'm not sure that removing it might be a bit premature. I wonder too what others are using instead of gftp.
I'd like to see yakuake included in the package database but it might not be very popular, HAL is a definite must as is lm_sensors. lm_sensors is used by just about every desktop applet that displays system information.
122 • @118 (by Anonymous on 2008-06-10 16:23:22 GMT from France)
Indeed, almost nobody use DOS anymore. I use bash with cygwin on Windows when I have to script something. Unfortunately, some of my customers don't want to deploy cygwin on all their desktops. Then I have to use batch commands to do the things I have to do (renaming of files, backups, automatic updates and stuff...) and I understand why everybody is avoiding it. It is a pain to use. They just use the execute command dialog when they have to and that's all.
I have no problem using the GUI for most common tasks when the GUI is clear and I don't have to browse more 3 submenus to find the correct functionality. However, sometimes, I have to do more than clicking and bash is really handy. You should give it a try.
123 • Mint 5... (by capricornus on 2008-06-10 18:46:31 GMT from Belgium)
... I redownloaded Mint 5 from the US location, costs me 50 KB/s or so, but this time it runs like a wildebeest, as it should, as was announced. Great. Let me play with this first class beast. ;-)
124 • Mint 5... (by capricornus on 2008-06-10 19:03:56 GMT from Belgium)
... the new download even manages itself on my MSI PM8PM-V with a P4DC-cpu - in compatibility mode. It is the first *buntu that does that. Only Granular1 managed and still manages this MB+CPU till now. This is promising. I'll keep you informed.
125 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-06-10 19:32:45 GMT from Canada)
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6828123924.html
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6372429785.html
http://building.a.puppybox.googlepages.com/home
11 • Mini PC (by Troy Banther on 2008-06-09 12:02:05 GMT from United States)
More than a Linux notebook or laptop, I want an ultra low-powered Mini PC. Something like the Koolu Works Everywhere Appliance.
This may surprise some non-US Linux users but there are some people in the US who don't believe in having the latest and greatest PC system, laptop or desktop, that takes an entire power grid use.
If anyone has built a low-powered Mini PC running Linux, I would like to read about what you built.
126 • Re: #95 - Konqueror for FTP (by Ariszló on 2008-06-10 20:01:30 GMT from Hungary)
Yes, Konqueror 3.x is a very good ftp client. You can access a remote machine in a file manager window and manage your files there just like on your own machine. You can edit your remote files, create new ones, move them around, etc.
127 • re 126 (by Anonymous on 2008-06-10 20:25:10 GMT from Canada)
Amen to that
128 • @126 (by john frey on 2008-06-10 20:59:48 GMT from Canada)
Yes, of course. Konqueror is fantastic. I use it for ssh sometimes in the same way you describe ftp. The only problem is I disable root logins (too easy to guess the username) and I have not figured out how to login via ssh as user then su. I guess this is one area where sudo might work better than su.
129 • Gentoo Delays (by Anonymous on 2008-06-10 21:19:04 GMT from United States)
Who wants the abuse that a Gentoo user takes reporting bugs? Only to be told it is a duplicate or the problem is upstream or whatever. Who cares, the devs crawl all over you if you don't do their job. YOU submit a patch a year goes by and they say, well since everyone is using the patch we'll just close this. ??WTF
130 • Keeping Gentoo to a Release Schedule IS Important (by Anonymous on 2008-06-10 21:23:16 GMT from United States)
Because Gentoo was so far behind on their packages that they would have looked like an antique had they cut a new install disk!
There are all kinds of tools available to make boot disks and install disks but the fact that the Gentoo people keep telling you that it doesn't matter is crap.
It wasn't until they looked at what they had did they find out how far back their packages were, otherwise they could have cut a disk back in the middle of April at least.
RELEASE SCHEDULES KEEP YOU HONEST (AND CURRENT) ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS A LIAR!
131 • Eee PC (by Anonymous on 2008-06-10 21:46:30 GMT from Canada)
What is wrong for Asus to install Windows on EeePC. Eee PC was never meant to be a Linux machine. People (well most of them) buy it because it is cheap and it is small and convenient. The only reason I can see why Asus want to go the Windows route is because it will boost their sales. If people don't want Windows, then no matter how much discount MS gives, Asus won't install something they can not sell. So stop crying. Nobody care whether you will buy a Eee PC or not. For every one who is crying for Asus's move, there might a hundred who are cheering for it.
BTW, there was one post stating that "Bundling has to stop". Really?? how come you didn't say this when Eee PC was bundled with Linux. In the past, corner stores sold thousands and thousands of no-name PCs and there are also lots and lots of DIY PCs, they were not bundled with any OS. Do more people put Linux on them? You know the answer.
132 • @130 (by Anonymous on 2008-06-10 23:28:55 GMT from France)
Which specific package do you feel is not current?
133 • 130 + 132 (by Landor on 2008-06-10 23:51:16 GMT from Canada)
That's the question I asked (I believe the same person) last week. I just upgraded two packages as well. Both were version bumps in the changelog. One was for June 3rd and the other for June 8th.
Tools to make a live cd/install disk? Have you ever built one? With Catalyst? I remastered the 2007.0 cd and put it on a usb stick. Very light wm, specific apps, to carry around with me. I can tell you from my experience Catalyst which is not only the installer, but also can be used to remaster a cd is no walk in the park. I don't know what the devs use, but if they use catalyst then my hat's off to them even more than before.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
134 • New distribution ping (by Helbitt on 2008-06-11 00:23:21 GMT from Brazil)
I think that this distribution is a virus. When I tried to bakup my Windows XP, my partition table of disk 1 was deleted and I lost all in my computer.
135 • Re #134 (by Glenn on 2008-06-11 01:05:59 GMT from Canada)
Hi Helbitt
Down load PARTED MAGIC
http://partedmagic.com/wiki/PartedMagic.php?n=PartedMagic.Downloads
It has a utility on it called TESTDISK.... That will recover your partitions for you including your partition table. I've used it a few times successfully.
I'm sure there are others but this one I know worked for me on a few different PC configurations.
Good luck
Glenn
136 • Parted Magic (by Lim-Dul on 2008-06-11 01:14:32 GMT from Poland)
True. I tried SystemRescueCD, Trinity Rescue Kit and Parted Magic seems to be the least bloated and easiest to use without lacking useful features. It's quite good at detecting your network settings so you can always use it to get some info on the internet as well. ^^
137 • re: 130, 132, 133 (by Anonymous on 2008-06-11 05:33:40 GMT from France)
And they have to do that for alpha, amd64, hppa, ia64, ppc/ppc64, sparc64, x86 and all the other architectures they support. That's 10 times more work!
138 • How to stop GNOME automounting partitions (by Linux Tip on 2008-06-11 06:01:13 GMT from Australia)
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=47174
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=357115#p357115
139 • RE: Eee Box (by tim on 2008-06-11 06:20:54 GMT from United States)
I think you are wrong about no Linux of the Eee Box. Anandtech posted a review and the say the configurations for the United States are:
$269 - 1GB memory + 80GB HDD Linux edition
$299 - 1GB memory + 80GB HDD XP edition
$299 - 2GB memory + 160GB HDD Linux edition
All with Intel Atom 1.6GHz and Splashtop (even on the Windows versions).
Link to review.
http://tinyurl.com/67tw5l
140 • Re: 138 Use "autofs" instead of "hal" (by hobbitland on 2008-06-11 08:06:15 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi, I disable gnome automount by stopping it load the HAL .so:
chmod ugo-rwx /usr/lib/libhal-storage.so.*
I enable "autofs" instead. Autofs is better because it mounts devices as and when the are used. It also can auto umount after a set idle time that you can set. I find it stupid that you have to eject on the desktop a USB pen under Linux and Windows. Of course a USB pen does not eject.
141 • Xubuntu ... (by Coffee on 2008-06-11 09:01:39 GMT from France)
More than six weeks after its release nobody has as yet reviewed
Xubuntu 8.04. How come? Is it possible that people are loosing
interest in the distribution because the Xfce development has
slowed down? Or is it because Xfce still lacks core features
like an uncomplicated launcher creation and convenient
main menu editing? I'm wondering ...
142 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-06-11 11:43:44 GMT from United States)
I used Xubuntu briefly in the 7.04 version, but I didn't find it sufficiently lightweight and speedy enough to put up with the relative lack of features compared to the Gnome version. The developers admitted as much recently in a statement about the future direction of the project.
I'll give Xubuntu another try a year down the line...Right now for my old computers I'm using Vector Linux and Anti-X.
143 • @141 + 142 (by DeniZen on 2008-06-11 14:04:58 GMT from United Kingdom)
Indeed, its just not quick enough really, it is a little zippier than Ubuntu on higher spec machines, but most folks would then want to be using Gnome or KDE anyway. Generally speaking.
And as stated, the devs have admitted its not really doing what it sets out to do.
Doesnt really explain why its not getting many reviews though! - but probably something to do with it not really making much of an impact.
Zenwalk eclipses Xubuntu too - as a very fast XFCE desktop with one app per task, and multimedia etc 'out of the box'.
144 • Re: "Live and Let Live!" (by Duke of Earl on 2008-06-11 16:28:59 GMT from United States)
Sure, that's what Steve Ballmer does. He shares code with the community, works collaboratively with other software developers, looks for nonconfrontational ways to settle disputes, etc.
Are you living in a parallel universe where everything is opposite?
145 • Finger gesticulation and temporal consistency (by dbrion on 2008-06-11 19:26:34 GMT from France)
"
And thumbs down to the whole nation of Brazil.
Looking at Resulinux we seem to have a trend in recent Brazilian linux distros aping the Windows Vista interface. Seriously folks, is Vista THAT good a product that you think Linux would be better if it resembled Vista more? What does that say for what you think of linux? What about creativity in interface design? Heck, what about at least aping a decent interface like OS X ?
"
Is there any creativity in ergonomy?
Glad to know the whole nation of Brazil should be sued... by microsoft lawyers
(part of the price one pays when buying Windows is for lawyers, they should sometimes work...
if having the same layout can convince any
court, in *any* country). As M$ likes suing for IP, this might intellectually validate your finger
gesticulation.
FYI, an increasing part of M$ price is for computer-related programming *work* (this is not that
unlogical, else one could call them Megalawyers /nanosoft....
and this is a ^rimitive beginning of infra-minimalist ethics....) and _now_,
while UBUlinux
*will*
be cooler (one DWW "new", no time to find where...),
*will* (this weeks DWW...)
somehow manage some ultra-miniPCs : they can not even be found in a well organised
exposition : does it exist _to-day-?(tons of lines of pure PRopaganda here)
....M$ does _and buys the intellectual means to keep on _doing_, if one dares a
cool-blooded prediction.... Many
political (wo) men have claimed, since a loog time they _will _be somehow useful....
Some explaination of the funny despair and finger movements in this weeks DWW
quote "
,In conclusion, a big thumbs-down to ASUS for turning its successful Linux product into just another Microsoft propaganda tool, for its bloated, heavy and overpriced Eee PC 901/1000 range, and for dropping Linux completely from the Eee Box. A huge thumbs up to
"
(after being swindled -and after trying to convince people to be swindled, too!!! in the elogious http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20080428" First look at ASUS Eee PC 900" ) An expanation opf such funny finger movements can be found in the very subtle "technical" analysis in DWW 205, "technology versus ideology"....
I suppose I will be bashed as taking lines out of their context... as it is being done , in this weeks DWW with the ongoing demagogic Gentoo-bashing:
it is quite a current, useful, interesting " technique "to find a place where there *seems* to be a crisis
(generally, as it is detected a longtime ago, the "crisis"-if any- is already more than half solved),
cut and paste some blogs lines to give some "fresh" news
(it is a traditional policy, based on fairness : cf , among others... Mandrivas antiPR policy.. in 2006)
What are the finger interesting movements w/r to DWWS this weeks? four weeks ago...
146 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-06-11 20:28:45 GMT from United States)
You might want to invest in a better French - English dictionary. Or failing at that, learn English grammar.
Finger Finger Finger!
147 • Re:@146.... (by NN on 2008-06-11 20:39:05 GMT from United States)
There are not just english speaking people on the world. What do you think if you start to learning some other languages?
148 • RE:Xubuntu (by Anonymous on 2008-06-11 20:49:23 GMT from United States)
I agree with everyone else. It is way to bloated/slow, especially with 256mb of memory. Also, Mint 5.0 was the same way on my systems. Mint 5.0 was slower on my 1.7ghz system with 256mb of memory, it was almost unusable/installable. I timed 4 minutes to get a start menu.
149 • @ 146 (by English all the way on 2008-06-11 21:05:47 GMT from Canada)
Picking on dbrion's second language is indeed lame. His English is quite OK.
150 • @133 Landor (by Anonymous on 2008-06-12 01:24:31 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the update, I think person's post you are referring to is more sophisticated than that, we understand your reasoning when you said "That's the question I asked (I believe the same person) last week. I just upgraded two packages as well. Both were version bumps in the changelog. One was for June 3rd and the other for June 8th."
The truth is, Gentoo would have looked like an Edsel beside a Ferrari if they hadn't spent the last few months making their packages current and of course with every change is the likelihood that something will brake. There is no discounting the hard work that goes into building and testing the packaging. Recent packaging has had minimal changes but over the several half months there have been thousands of updates to packages that got way behind in version.
The question is, can this once great distro dig itself out of the hole it is in and do you trust them not to allow this to happen again? For a current user or a new user this must be addressed.
151 • Here's some (7) windows fun facts... (by JAG on 2008-06-12 02:48:24 GMT from United States)
http://blogs.pcmag.com/securitywatch/2008/06/microsoft_releases_7_patches_3.php
152 • Re 138 & 140 ----Prebenting Automounting of Internal HDD Partitions (by Another Simple Option on 2008-06-12 03:29:51 GMT from Australia)
Do it the openSUSE way:
/usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/99-storage-policy-fixed-drives.fdi
Solution: Create above named file and copy following code into it (save it, reboot, and Bob's Your Uncle):
true
153 • Re 138 & 140 ----Preventing Automounting of Internal HDD Partitions (by Another Simple Option on 2008-06-12 03:35:36 GMT from Australia)
Do it the openSUSE way:
/usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/99-storage-policy-fixed-drives.fdi
Solution: Copy the above file into same directory on your given distro that does not have it. The code has tags that resembles html (xml) and does not show up here on DW.
Cheers.
PS: This issue is now solved for me!
154 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-06-12 03:38:47 GMT from Canada)
Here's the ChangeLog for three apps in The Gentoo Portage Tree. The First I just picked as random, the last I picked as an app that I use daily. Doesn't seem to be a big problem with packages being worked on/up to date from what I see. I also looked a bit more, but I didn't want to waste space here.
# ChangeLog for net-print/gutenprint
# Copyright 2002-2008 Gentoo Foundation; Distributed under the GPL v2
# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/net-print/gutenprint/ChangeLog,v 1.4 2008/04/06 23:42:23 swegener Exp $
05 Apr 2008; Tobias Klausmann
gutenprint-5.1.4.ebuild:
Stable on alpha, bug #144623
05 Apr 2008; Stefan Schweizer
gutenprint-5.1.4.ebuild, gutenprint-5.1.7.ebuild:
fix description typo thanks Toralf Foerster in bug 216353
*gutenprint-5.1.7 (05 Apr 2008)
*gutenprint-5.1.4 (05 Apr 2008)
05 Apr 2008; Stefan Schweizer +metadata.xml,
+gutenprint-5.1.4.ebuild, +gutenprint-5.1.7.ebuild:
move media-gfx/gimp-print to net-print/gutenprint
27 Mar 2008; Jeroen Roovers gimp-print-5.1.4.ebuild:
Stable for HPPA (bug #144623).
26 Mar 2008; Brent Baude gimp-print-5.1.4.ebuild:
Marking gimp-print-5.1.4 ppc for bug 144623
24 Mar 2008; Raúl Porcel gimp-print-5.1.4.ebuild:
ia64 stable wrt #144623
22 Mar 2008; Brent Baude gimp-print-5.1.4.ebuild:
Marking gimp-print-5.1.4 ppc64 for bug 144623
21 Mar 2008; Markus Meier gimp-print-5.1.4.ebuild:
amd64/x86 stable, bug #144623
21 Mar 2008; Ferris McCormick gimp-print-5.1.4.ebuild:
Sparc stable, Bug #144623 --- gimp, at least can print with "Print with
Gutenprint".
*gimp-print-5.1.7 (21 Mar 2008)
21 Mar 2008; Stefan Schweizer
+gimp-print-5.1.7.ebuild:
version bump, bug 212821
02 Jan 2008; Raúl Porcel gimp-print-5.1.4.ebuild:
Re-add ~ia64
*gimp-print-5.1.4 (22 Dec 2007)
22 Dec 2007; Stefan Schweizer
+gimp-print-5.1.4.ebuild:
version bump, thanks Pacho Ramos in bug
201876
14 Oct 2007; Stefan Schweizer
gimp-print-5.1.3.ebuild:
Update installed printer queues automatically thanks to Bruce
and Jon Severinsson in bug
180957
01 May 2008; Hanno Boeck +josm-1.5_p621.ebuild:
Version bump.
*josm-1.5_p613 (19 Apr 2008)
19 Apr 2008; Hanno Boeck +josm-1.5_p613.ebuild:
Version bump.
*josm-1.5_p587 (21 Mar 2008)
21 Mar 2008; Hanno Boeck +josm-1.5_p587.ebuild:
Version bump.
29 Feb 2008; Carsten Lohrke josm-1.5_p493.ebuild,
josm-1.5_p549.ebuild:
Remove icon extension from desktop entry to match Icon Theme Specification.
*josm-1.5_p549 (20 Feb 2008)
20 Feb 2008; Hanno Boeck +josm-1.5_p549.ebuild:
Version bump.
*josm-1.5_p493 (17 Dec 2007)
17 Dec 2007; Hanno Boeck +josm-1.5_p493.ebuild:
Version bump.
*josm-1.5_p490 (16 Dec 2007)
16 Dec 2007; Hanno Boeck +josm-1.5_p490.ebuild:
Version bump, new de locale.
*josm-1.5_p457 (07 Nov 2007)
07 Nov 2007; Hanno Boeck +josm-1.5_p457.ebuild:
Version bump.
*josm-1.5_p352 (09 Oct 2007)
09 Oct 2007; Hanno Boeck files/josm,
+josm-1.5_p352.ebuild:
Version bump for API 0.5.
07 Jun 2008; Tobias Heinlein -kmail-3.5.8.ebuild:
Removed old versions.
18 May 2008; Markus Meier kmail-3.5.9.ebuild:
amd64/x86 stable, bug #221063
14 May 2008; Markus Rothe kmail-3.5.9.ebuild:
Stable on ppc64; bug #221063
13 May 2008; Jeroen Roovers kmail-3.5.9.ebuild:
Stable for HPPA (bug #221063).
12 May 2008; Brent Baude kmail-3.5.9.ebuild:
Marking kmail-3.5.9 ppc stable for bug 221063
12 May 2008; Raúl Porcel kmail-3.5.9.ebuild:
alpha/ia64/sparc stable wrt #221063
07 Mar 2008; Ingmar Vanhassel kmail-3.5.9.ebuild:
Allow mixing of split & monolithic ebuilds, where possible, thanks to
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis!
04 Mar 2008; Jeroen Roovers kmail-3.5.8.ebuild,
kmail-3.5.9.ebuild:
Keyword split KDE for HPPA.
*kmail-3.5.9 (20 Feb 2008)
20 Feb 2008; Wulf C. Krueger +kmail-3.5.9.ebuild:
Version bump to KDE 3.5.9.
16 Feb 2008; Ingmar Vanhassel
-files/kmail-3.5.5-dimap-mail-loss.patch, -files/kmail-utf8.diff,
-files/kmail-3.5.6-kde-bug-140660.patch,
-files/kmail-3.5.6-templates.patch, -files/kmail-3.5.7-filters.patch,
-kmail-3.5.5-r1.ebuild, -kmail-3.5.5-r2.ebuild, -kmail-3.5.6-r1.ebuild,
-kmail-3.5.6-r2.ebuild, -kmail-3.5.6-r3.ebuild, -kmail-3.5.7.ebuild,
-kmail-3.5.7-r1.ebuild, -kmail-3.5.7-r2.ebuild:
Spring cleaning
31 Jan 2008; Brent Baude kmail-3.5.8.ebuild:
Marking kmail-3.5.8 ppc for bug 207634
30 Jan 2008; Brent Baude kmail-3.5.8.ebuild:
Marking kmail-3.5.8 ppc64 for bug 207634
30 Jan 2008; Christian Faulhammer kmail-3.5.8.ebuild:
stable x86, bug 207634
29 Jan 2008; Raúl Porcel kmail-3.5.8.ebuild:
alpha/ia64/sparc stable wrt #207634
28 Jan 2008; Wulf C. Krueger kmail-3.5.8.ebuild:
Marked stable on amd64 as per bug 207634.
20 Oct 2007; Wulf C. Krueger kmail-3.5.8.ebuild:
Fixed wrong quoting. Fixes bug 196531.
Do you have a list of these 1000's of apps that aren't updated? Is it one specific app you didn't like not being updated? Anything to show that what you're saying is accurate?
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
155 • Number of comments = 154?? (by BhaKi on 2008-06-12 11:42:52 GMT from India)
The last comment that i'm able to see has been numbered 113 (now 114). But the bottom of the comments section shows that the number of comments is 154 (now 155). Can someone explain this?
156 • OOPS!! The browser cache was the culprit (by BhaKi on 2008-06-12 11:43:55 GMT from India)
Solved
157 • Keeping source packages/distros up to date (by DG on 2008-06-12 12:06:52 GMT from Netherlands)
When I first started using Lunar Linux, a source based distro, I was curious and sorted the package list on their last update dates. What this showed was that the packages that under active development churn through releases and tend to be relatively up to date. Old packages that have not had a release for a long time tend to be the ones with the oldest update dates, but that does not necessarily mean that they are out of date. Some stable packages (e.g.'patch' if I remember correctly) have not been updated for years, but are still very much current. But there are old packages that are no longer actively used because they relate to old hardware that hardly anyone has, or because their function has been taken over by a new package with more bells and whistles. It's unlikely that developers have that old hardware to verify the package, or want to uninstall their bells and whistles environment to test an old package that should just be allowed to die. But who knows, maybe someone is still using it.
So there are two issues really: how do you know whether all old packages are really 'out of date'; and how do you know when you can remove/retire the other old ones that have been superceded?
158 • XUbuntu (by Anonymous on 2008-06-12 12:30:53 GMT from United States)
I wish XUbuntu was leaner, but I'm using it right now on a 2 GHz machine with 256MB RAM with no real problem. I just don't have more than 1 app open at a time.
159 • REF# 146 Somewhat agree...but... (by Verndog on 2008-06-12 16:49:51 GMT from United States)
"You might want to invest in a better French - English dictionary. Or failing at that, learn English grammar."
I tried to read dbrion's comment, and got really confused, as I usually do.
Then I realized that it may gone through a translator. No offense to dbrion
What I gleamed from his comment is spot-on. Especially the Brazil release of Resulinux. That comment I fully understand and totally agree.
Why do Linux releases try their hardest to emulate Microsoft Windows. It makes no sense. In fact if anything it just confuses the situation.
Imagine someone coming from Windows environment and installing a distro that tries to copy Windows only finding out that nothing works quit right. Somethings appear to be their (icons, folders), and most things are missing.
At some point in their lives, if they expect to run Linux, their going to have to learn Linux. Stop trying to compare Linux with Windows. Linux is NOT Windows:
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
Here is the real problem. All the hardware manufactures that make desktops, laptops, notebooks, etc. All do so with WINDOWS installed.
So now users are getting tired of either the money spent for all the upgrades through the years, or having to buy new hardware just to keep up.
Now then want to try and find an alternative. Then comes Linux into their lives, but its a hardware world created for Windows. Get the picture.
Imagine this. What if it were reversed. How would Microsoft fare? I'm more amazed at how WELL Linux runs under such conditions.
I think suing the hardware manufactures is more in line than suing Microsoft for being a monopoly.
160 • @159 (by Anonymous on 2008-06-12 18:23:44 GMT from France)
It is the over way around. Those brazilian distros are an introduction to Windows for linux users. They will be disappointed when they find bash on Windows suck.
I'm half joking. Seriously, I have no problem with windows lookink distros. Some people have to use Windows at work and they may feel more comfortable at home with the same look as they are used to. I doesn't have to be Windows, but the visual peace is important. That is why you don't paint your room's walls in red. How your desktop's look is important and some people are used to Windows' look, even if what they do at home is quite different than what they do at work. When you take a girl, you want her to be your style in her mind, but you also look for your style in her body. With linux, you can have the look you want with a good OS. If some people prefer Windows' look, I understand.
161 • re 160 (by Anonymous on 2008-06-12 20:09:07 GMT from Canada)
> When you take a girl, you want her to be your style in her mind, but you also look for your style in her body.
Could be, but those guys in Brazil stick the Windows private parts into the Linux body. That is definitely not OK.
162 • Xubuntu #158 (by Anonymous on 2008-06-13 02:22:23 GMT from United States)
On a PIII 866 Mz computer with 384 megs of ram, Xubuntu was pretty annoying when running Firefox. Surely I'm not the only one still using such old hardware...It's Anti-X for me. Since Anti-X uses apt also, it's a pretty painless distro to use.
163 • Re 162 (by glenn on 2008-06-13 04:04:31 GMT from Canada)
I have 2 Piii 766 MZ with 256 Ram still alive here. Use 1 as a server, other to monkey around with.
glenn
.
164 • Further to 163. (by Glenn on 2008-06-13 04:08:43 GMT from Canada)
Actually I'm going to clean those 2 up, put Puppy on then and give them to some kids who don't have a PC because of cash flow problems.
165 • Linux Mint 5 R1 (by johncoom on 2008-06-13 06:25:41 GMT from Australia)
From ReadMe.txt
'-------------------
Linux Mint 5 Elyssa
-------------------
Release Notes:
http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_elyssa.php
http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_elyssa_light.php
Revisions (always download the latest revision):
-----------------------------------------------
- r1 (12/06/2008): This revision fixes a security bug in mintAssistant.
- Initial release (08/06/2008).
For the fixed r1 torrent as has been posted by 'WAD1m' at LT see:
http://linuxtracker.org/index.php?page=torrent-details&id=8c8b3539e8a7b87118b70720b7756b47c6f19dc8
The Mint Forum discussion is here:
http://linuxmint.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=0&t=13459&sid=3d147c4bb89fa0aeb583a73bb8412e32
166 • @158 Haro sur les Brésiliens.. (by dbrion on 2008-06-13 13:45:11 GMT from France)
"Especially the Brazil release of Resulinux. That comment I fully understand and totally agree.
"
I am not at all surprsed with Verndogs agreement on the mere idea of linking somewhat negative (in your opinion) with extra -US origins...
Je continue donc en français, en souhaitant que :
* les distributions partiellement commerciales aient l'intervalle de prix
(ex: Suze :[ 0...40US$]) affiché ... Ca correspondrait à la vérité...
L'affichage ait lieu en "GREAT BIG BUCKS" et en ...euros, pour détecter rapidement d'éventuelles erreurs de calcul flottant, menant à différer tout achat...
Bonne gymnastique digitale...
167 • Suggestion de correction orthographique pour @159 (by dbrion on 2008-06-13 13:52:01 GMT from France)
"
I think suing the hardware manufactures is more in line than suing Microsoft for being a monopoly."
Une usine est un objet, un industriel peut être traîné en justice...
s/ manufactures / manufactureR/
-reportez vous à 146 pour toute explication-
, ce
Monsieur, pour améliorer votre "langue" maternelle
168 • RE 122 It may be better with msys/mingw (by dbrion on 2008-06-13 14:00:17 GMT from France)
"I use bash with cygwin on Windows when I have to script something. Unfortunately, some of my customers don't want to deploy cygwin on all their desktops."
Comme il n'introduit pas de dépendances (à la différence de cygwin, une grande création de Redhat-au moins indirectement-) et que ses logiciels ont de très grands cycles de développement et sont très légers (mais vous aurez "sh" au lieu de "bash".. et très rapides (W$>cygwin>1 application est 2 fois plus lent W$->VMplayer-> la même application sous le GNUlinux émulé), les défauts liés à son âage (très hypothètiques, c'est plutôt un problème de snobisme et d'irreflection) et à ses écritures asynchrones peuvent être relativisés....
Le snobisme et l'absence totale de reflection semblent très populaires chez les amateurs de "charityware" -quelle est la traduction?
169 • Ref 167 - 168 What's the point! (by Anonymous on 2008-06-13 15:14:01 GMT from United States)
What's the point to post comments in another language other than English?
Unless you like talking to yourself. There might be 1 or 2 others that understand, but for the rest of us it just makes no sense.
170 • @169 (by john frey on 2008-06-13 16:42:21 GMT from Canada)
I think you underestimate the number of people who can read French. I for one can understand just as well what dbrion writes in French as what he writes in English. That means I don't really understand him in either language:) At least when he writes in French I don't expect to understand everything.
171 • @168 (by Anonymous on 2008-06-13 18:31:39 GMT from France)
En vérité, j'ai trouvé que DOS est plus lent que cygwin+bash, surtout que à partir de Windows NT, et donc de Windows XP, le DOS n'est plus une couche sous-jacente de Windows, mais une sur-couche émulée pour rester compatible avec 95. Sérieusement, je pense que le seul avantage est qu'il est installé sur tous les postes avec XP.
172 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-06-13 19:35:53 GMT from Canada)
You see what happens when you mess with dbrion's English. We got frenched.
OK dbrion, we learned our lesson, now please stop this frenchy non-sense.
173 • 169 • Ref 167 - 168 What's the point! (by NN on 2008-06-13 21:48:44 GMT from United States)
>Unless you like talking to yourself. There might be 1 or 2 others that understand, but for the rest of us it just makes no sense...
A joke of the day :)))))
If you know JUST one language it doesn;t mean that are other same as you. Maybe it is time that you start learning...
Do you know for example, how many people on the world speak english and how many spanish??
Have a good day.
174 • Aucun problème ! (by Caraibes on 2008-06-13 22:35:23 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Facile, c'est du français... Pas de problème ;o)
Some of us here are not monolingual...
175 • Ladislav Bodnar Do you think this is funny?!?! (by Anonymous on 2008-06-13 22:35:31 GMT from United States)
Hey Ladislav Bodnar, where are you. Last week you kept deleting messages that were not about distros. Now this week you allow this French/English non-sense continue.
I don't have to read it, but it just keeps mucking up the comments section. I have to bypass it somehow to read REAL comments!
176 • Ref 170 :) Funny (by Anonymous on 2008-06-13 23:33:44 GMT from United States)
That's a very funny comment. I wondered if he wrote as bad in French as he does in English.
Bawwwhaha
177 • RE: #97 Zenwalk install error. (by Anonymous on 2008-06-14 01:57:25 GMT from United States)
I too was getting the ext3-fs error (device sdax) ext3_new imode: IO failure cannot read imode bitnap error, flying down the screen.
The solution is to not format with the partition tool. Chose XFS after you choose the install partition. I found a burried solution on the zenwalk website. It took a few tries to find it.
Now I'm dealing with the funky package management tool. You have to choose a mirror and choose new/upade/installed etc. before it shows anything to install/update. What mirror is for what I don't know. The description is only the http link.
178 • Re: #178 - multilingual comments section (by Ariszló on 2008-06-14 11:30:03 GMT from Hungary)
Que would happen if, wenn Du open your computero, finde eine message in esta lingua? No est Englando, no est Germano, no est Espano, no est Franzo, no est keine known lingua aber Du understande! Wat happen zo! Habe your computero eine virus catched?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europanto
http://www.europanto.be/G7_pilotaprojecto.html
179 • ^@170 Pierre de rosette (by dbrion on 2008-06-14 13:19:20 GMT from France)
Thanks John Frey for *last month* good review of OSolaris..
The way people find equivalent between Osolaris and GNUlinux is by googling "pierre de rosette solaris linux"...
I found this hint (and many interesting articles, one of which is dedicated to OSolaris in *this month* GNUlinux Magazine (case is mine, officially it varies : # 20%of it is not linux, but full GNU). I could not read it sooner, as it is sold in railways stations .. and there was a railways strike, likely linked (at least concomitant) with an UBUlinux release in another less interesting magazine...
FYI : I can correct (not write, correct) English for my uninteresting job (typos, scientifical| technical| political errors).. which has nothing to do with GNUlinux.... and I can write technical|scientifical|affective French (do not be _that_ afraid)...
180 • @180 (by john frey on 2008-06-14 20:36:22 GMT from Canada)
Well my auld pater would habla, "alles kaput." It's probably a distrowatch virus:)
If there were eastern languages (chinese, korean) added I would be totally lost. As you wrote it was remarkable easy to read but I'd be at a loss to write that way.
181 • @182 (by john frey on 2008-06-14 21:19:12 GMT from Canada)
Tres bon, dbrion. Ich canst hardly grok des autre lingua. so I could not really read the results of the google search. I'm really not very good at reading French.
I did however find Rosetta Stone for Unix at http://www.talisman.org/unix/rosetta.shtml. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your needs) it is for all unixes and comparing Gnu/linux commands to Opensolaris commands is unwieldy to say the least. At least the info is out there.
I'm not offended by your English but I have a hard time understanding it. Too many bracketed interruptions, spaces or lines instead of punctuation (I assume). Too many combinations of big words that would be clearer if you used smaller, simpler words. Whatever, I suppose you use what comes to mind at the moment. At least there is some sense there most of the time and nobody is going to pin you down because what you've written is often ambiguous.:)
182 • RE 181 (by dbrion on 2008-06-15 11:41:29 GMT from France)
French OSolaris users , when they want to find a Solaris-GNUlinux translation (some are GNUlinux or cygwin users, too), just google search it -and I gave the google sequence....' : I do not (and am not that ...directly..., in short time scales, interested,) know the way they can manage elsewhere)...
I agree that GNUlinux/ Unix commands sometimes differ, even if they have the same name!!! (Unix's sed cannot be used for auto-configuring, one must autoconfigure and {g}make GNU's sed... which needs itself...)
Hourrah, cornes au cul, vive le Père Ubu (Jarry, la chanson du décervelage,#1895)
183 • RE 171 : Mingw, cmd.exe et Cygwin (by Anonymous on 2008-06-15 12:06:31 GMT from France)
"DOS est plus lent que cygwin+bash"
J'avoue que je n'ai jamais compris le batch de DOS... et merci pour les éclaircissements...
Voici un batch qui m'a permis de comparer les temps d'éxécution, pour une tâche compliquée, de Cygwin et de Mingw:
la tâche compliquée consiste , dans le même repertoire, à compiler et tester (mis d'office dans le make) Blas, puis Lapack (ca 800000 8E5 lignes de fortran, scusez du peu : R, Octave Scilab et d'autres les utilisent et sont à leur tour fort utiles sur cette planète)
---------
listing=faire_cygwin.log # il suffit de les permuter
listing=faire_wingw.log
uname -a > $listing
date >> $listing
cd BLAS/SRC
make # >/dev/null
cd ../..
make # >/dev/null
date >> $listing
rm *.a INSTALL/*.exe
-------
(il n'est pas parfait : il faut nettoyer les *.o par un make clean, de bonne facture -ce que j'ai fait , faites moi confiance : pas de volonté de tricher-; J'ai cependant veillé à ce que tout soit fait dans le même repertoire).
Le résultat est, pour cygwin :
CYGWIN_NT-5.1 ASUS_A4B00K 1.5.18(0.132/4/2) 2005-07-02 20:30 i686 unknown unknown Cygwin
Sat Jun 14 21:52:26 2008
Sat Jun 14 22:19:03 2008
....28 minutes
et, pour msys+mingw :
MINGW32_NT-5.1 ASUS_A4B00K 1.0.9(0.46/3/2) 2003-07-03 07:26 i686 unknown
Sat Jun 14 20:21:52 GMT 2008
Sat Jun 14 20:40:59 GMT 2008
...19 minutes, soit un gain de plus de 35% des cas. Le manque de rigueur (un seul test) est compensé pour moi par la concordance avec d'autres essais,faits par des amis...
Et ceci est plus convaincant que la récitation "it is bloated, it is expensive, it is ugly" (tirée même pas de son contexte dans DWW).
Ce sont des faits, pas des UBU-absences (à une exposition qui doit avoir un plan, même a Taiwan) ou des UBU-promesses dont même un politicien aurait honte (liées à l'évaluation par google : on fait de l'échec une valeur de Relations Publiques).
Comme ça, même si cygwin cessait d'être supporté, tout espoir n'est pas perdu pour les scripts libres sous Windows : je ne souhaite en aucun cas faire une guerre entre deux grandes lignes de commande portées sous Windows (que je prive de ses dollars rituels : je les garde pour moi....)
184 • cor 183 : (by dbrion on 2008-06-15 13:19:34 GMT from France)
s/35% des cas/35% du temps estimé comme on peut (pas de profiling fiable, j'ai veillé à ce qu'aucun autre programme ne tourne : PC isolé sans antivirus, ni tâche lourde)/
s/a Taiwan/à Taïwan/
185 • @183,184 (by Anonymous on 2008-06-15 13:37:16 GMT from France)
Ok, disons que DOS plus rapide dans ce cas là, mais avez-vous essaye le find de DOS? Mis à part qu'il n'est pas aussi puissant que celui de bash, il est aussi beaucoup plus lent. (oui oui la commande find existe sous dos).
186 • RE 185 Mingw n'est pas DOS (by dbrion on 2008-06-15 13:57:29 GMT from France)
et, certes, je n'ai pas essayé find (j'utilise de plus en plus GNUlinux..).
Et j'ai oublié (en toute bonne foi) de rappeler que Cygwin est plus riche (man), plus neuf (voir les dates des versions) et plus confortable (vi de Msys doit être remplacé par un vi natif) => comme Cygwin est souvent plus lent (on sait souvent où sont les fichiers, ou on veille à le savoir, sauf exception dont quelques scripts de compilation), je suis amené à utiliser les deux, l'un pour essayer (cygwin), l'autre pour gagner du temps une fois que c'est fini (et portable à peu près partout...).
Une guerre entre deux ports fort utiles (Msys/Mingw est très populaire, si la popularité a un sens) serait savoureuse....
Moi mon colon, celle que j'préfère
C'est la guerre de 14-18..
Brassens la guerre de 14-18 ca 1960
187 • No subject (by Adam on 2008-06-15 18:17:53 GMT from Australia)
You lot deserved that.
188 • RE: 59 • Zenwalk source (by Claus Futtrup (by Béranger on 2008-06-15 20:41:54 GMT from Romania)
WRT the claimed 100% source availability of Zenwalk:
The current packages include KDE in "extra":
http://download.zenwalk.org/i486/current/extra/kde/
However, the sources directory lacks the KDE subdirectory!
189 • package database update: Wicd (by elcaset on 2008-06-15 20:52:41 GMT from United States)
Please also include: Wicd (a network manager)
Thanks
Number of Comments: 189
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
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Tablix on Morphix
Tablix on Morphix was yet another bootable CD-based Linux distribution. As the name suggests, it was based on Morphix, a modular CD distribution based on Debian GNU/Linux. What was special about Tablix on Morphix was the automatic cluster configuration. This means that all you need for a functioning PVM3 cluster was a bunch of computers and a pile of Tablix on Morphix CDs.
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