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1 • Interesting week... (by Caraibes on 2008-04-28 13:00:29 GMT from Dominican Republic)
I enjoyed the new DSL ! A new Firefox is a big event for the DSL users !
For more of my impressions on Hardy, read it here:
http://free-las-terrenas.blogspot.com/
2 • ASUS Eee PC 900 (by My Linux Page at 2008-04-28 13:07:24 GMT from United States)
I'm glad Linux is making inroads in the Desktop Market. It is never easy to configure a Windows Machine to use Linux: to many parts made only for Windows. It is always a headache trying to make things work that are not native to Linux.
3 • DW images don't show (by JimK on 2008-04-28 13:07:42 GMT from United States)
Does anybody know why images aren't showing up on Distrowatch? There are no ads, no screenshots and no distro logos -- just the distro name in strike-thru text where the logo belongs. When I click on the text link to a screen shot, I get a Forbidden message. I'm using Firefox on Mandriva 2008 (and images are enabled).
4 • Ubuntu 8.04 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-28 13:25:44 GMT from United States)
Unfortunately the new Ubuntu seems to have some annoying bugs in it. I've been using it heavily since the release candidate, and have found a number of small problems.
Hopefully this is not an indicator of the quality of that release in general. It's unfortunate because now I will be scaling back on my plans to use it to promote Linux.
5 • Quick note on the Eee 900 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-04-28 13:30:54 GMT from United Kingdom)
Just to avoid any potential disappointment: Mandriva 2008 Spring has been tweaked for the Eee 701, not the 900. We didn't (and still don't, yet) have 900 test hardware. It may well work very well on the 900, but we haven't tested it nor customized the distro for it, so I suspect it won't work quite as perfectly as on the 701. So please don't grab 2008 Spring expecting a perfect out of the box experience on the 900, as it probably won't happen. We'll be getting a test box as soon as we can and making sure 2009 works great on it, and backporting as many fixes for it to 2008 Spring as possible / necessary.
6 • Slackware 12.1 (by Ekin Akoglu on 2008-04-28 13:34:03 GMT from Turkey)
I can't stand the excitement of waiting for the final release of Slackware 12.1.
7 • Worries about the eeeeeePC (by dbrion on 2008-04-28 13:43:50 GMT from France)
* Does its flash (20G now) support many writes (flash had/has (I hope I am wrong) a bad reputation w/r writing (it was unpossible to edit a text while saving it, to compile, then one roasted ones USB key);
often, free open Source(or not) applications shipped on USB keys ((there are XP ports, which avoid halting -low- and starting a USB-Linux -fast and nice-)) , manage not to write too often on it.
* Can one put an outer disk (it might be much greater than 20 G, and be a classical + adapter disk) on its USB without losing the USB functionality?
* Is it water/CocaCola/coffee tight?
8 • DSL (by Soggier on 2008-04-28 13:50:50 GMT from United Kingdom)
Robert gets a lot of flack for his DSL because it still uses the 2.4 kernel. At least he uses the latest kernel updates. It is, or was, one of the most useful and indispensable tools in the kit, because that's the one to reach for when everything else fails. Sadly, now Robert has made his first big mistake - scsi omission is unacceptable. DSL was one of the very few that didn't give extreme hassle with scsi. Now it's all over for DSL. Sorry Robert. Goodbye and farewell.
9 • @3 (by Evangelos Foutras on 2008-04-28 13:51:26 GMT from Greece)
You've probably disabled the "referer" header in Firefox. To fix it, enter "about:config" in the address bar, type "referer" into the Filter and make sure network.http.sendRefererHeader is set to 2.
10 • PupEee, Breezy, Light (by Lobster on 2008-04-28 14:02:57 GMT from United Kingdom)
"In a word, I was wrong. " Well said.
That is three words - but the gist is communicated. :)
It takes a big heart to admit being wrong. No shame in that. Happens to me all the time. I have the early version of the Asus with smaller screen. Xandros is simple. Great stuff. I have run Pupeee and will release a Linux Tmxxine Light for the Eeepc in time probably based on the soon to be released Puppy 4.00 aka 'Dingo'.
http://tmxxine.com/wik/wikka.php?wakka=LinuxTmxxineLight
11 • Debian biweekly news (by alien on 2008-04-28 14:04:04 GMT from United States)
The new incarnation of Debian Weekly News is actually now called "Debian Project News" and it's a biweekly publication. Still, it's good to see that Debian gets some positive publicity because they've damn well earned it.
Not only has their "unstable" branch served well as the basis for several popular derivative distros, but also their own "testing" branch has been kept very usable, reliable, secure, and up-to-date. Debian "testing" should be a valid alternative for those users who find the derivative distros a bit too "unstable" and slow, and I'm sure that the autumn's Lenny release will give all the other major distros a tough competition. :-)
12 • @9 Evangelos (by JimK on 2008-04-28 14:04:14 GMT from United States)
Thanks. You were right. But I think I'll just keep referer header set to 0 because it makes browsing faster and I don't like people to know where I came from. I can always use a different Firefox profile if I want to view Distrowatch images.
13 • Ubuntu Hardy Heron is hardy indeed. (by Mumbo719 on 2008-04-28 14:06:55 GMT from United States)
Gutsy did not like my machine at all. Ubuntu Studio (Hardy Heron) runs flawlessly on my Lenovo 3000 desktop
14 • Ubuntu Bug (by Jordi on 2008-04-28 14:09:02 GMT from Spain)
If you're using Ubuntu 8.04 and you use ATI fglrx driver, all you get when u log in is a white screen, and a cursor, but nothing else.
This is unacceptable, on such a popular distribution, even more if we have in mind that this didn't happen in 7.10.
Didn't they have time to test such a common driver on their newer distribution?
Luckily i managed to get over that problem, but i don't have any 3D acceleration now.
15 • #8 (by jeffcustom on 2008-04-28 14:15:54 GMT from United States)
I believe he has scsi now as an installable module. Boo the CD to toram, Install it as a module, create your mydsl cd and you are back to where you were before. I THINK this is all you need to do.
Good luck.
16 • Ubuntu 8.04 Bugs (by Joaquim Gil on 2008-04-28 14:15:55 GMT from Portugal)
The (not yet) unsolved bugs with Ubuntu 8.04 are a shame indeed. I wonder what the Beta and RCs are for... Is Ubuntu approaching the Micro$oft philosophy of "later to distribute patches"? Hope not.
17 • The Heron is indeed Hardy! (by davemc on 2008-04-28 14:21:03 GMT from United States)
I approached this new release with my usual skepticism and expectations that I would find MANY bugs with the new Hardy releases. I was let down big time this time around! After spending an entire weekend of eagerly looking for bugs, I only found two - one of which was a show stopper - but that is nothing compared to past releases of Ubuntu where Ive spent an entire weekend just reporting the bugs. Here they are for the somewhat interested:
1. /etc/hosts file gets screwed up on upgrades. For some reason it attaches the domain name onto the usernames like so - username.hostname - which means that when you log in, the system wont recognize you and thus, things like updates and doing anything system level becomes very problematic. Simply removing the .hostname from /etc/hosts fixes this.
2. Virtualbox kernel headers are not included in the release so you will lose vboxdrv. Fixing this involves installing the vboxdrv kernel headers for Hardy. Simple, but annoying nonetheless.
3. Yes, there was a third but I count it as a non-issue. Fresh installs do NOT detect or migrate windows settings.
Thats it. That was the only bug I could find on any of my 4 rigs that currently run Linux. I did upgrades on one (the server), and fresh installs on the other three. Hardy brings quite alot of new security features which Fedora users will already be well accustomed to, but it implements them in an a very user friendly manner. Pulse Audio seems to work fine, and some things like Networking and X Server settings have been reorganized/redesigned to be much more streamlined/integrated. For example, I switched to more optimized X Server settings using "nvidia-settings", and noted that the utility "Screen Resolution" (The GNOME tool) in the System menu's picked up on it and reflected all the settings from the Nvidia tool, plus offered screen placements and inversions - something very handy for dual monitors. Nice touch. FUSE seems to be integrated in this release as well, which is nice as that has always been my first task to setup on fresh installs. Many more changes of note, but in general I was floored by this release. Outstanding job Ubuntu crew!
18 • 11 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-28 14:22:11 GMT from United States)
Based on my own experience, Debian testing works sometimes. They are very touchy about anyone complaining about anything in testing. If it works, fine. If it doesn't work, fine too. I got burned by thinking testing is suitable as a desktop.
The Debian project clearly states that only Stable should be used if you want a working system.
Testing can have problems for weeks and months at a time. The software varies greatly in age from cutting edge to nine months behind cutting edge. Though security generally seems okay in testing, they make it clear that there is no formal security effort for testing.
Not trying to argue with you, just making the point that testing usually works, but can be very unusable for long periods of time. I used it for a couple of years and had highs and lows and eventually had to give up. Potential Debian users need to be aware of that.
19 • Ubuntu/Mandriva (by wam on 2008-04-28 14:24:35 GMT from United States)
Hardy and Spring has to be the two best distros ive ever used so far. Im dual booting both and lean a little more towards Mandriva. Love them both.
20 • Ubuntu RC to Full Release issues (by whitt madden on 2008-04-28 14:31:13 GMT from United States)
I experienced a number of issues upgrading from the Release Candidate to the Final Release. CPU usage through the roof, cd-burning issues, Firefox and flash issues. I re-installed using the final release cd and all of those issues disappeared.
21 • My printer and Ubuntu - friends again. :) - a some propaganda for Virtual Box (by herman on 2008-04-28 14:38:33 GMT from Netherlands)
Great news for me - I installed the latest Ubuntu, and guess what, after 4 releases, it now supports my Samsung printer bug-free.
All distros have supported this printer except Ubuntu, so now I've no technical reason anymore to not use it. :)
Ubuntu looks and feels better than I thought it would, it's a very polished overall desktop.
Setting up SCIM required some manual configuration still, that was the hardest bit.
I installed Virtual Box and ran a few guest OS'es on it, that works absolutely great. Very impressive software by Sun-acquired Innotek (no I do not have shares).
I'd recommend anyone to use Virtual Box for testing distro. Gone are the days of the multi-boot, except for gamers perhapt. Performance on the virtual machine is almost as good as on the very hardware itself.
Well, I'm sure everybode knows that virtualisation is around, but it seems to me that lots of people are still not using it and messing with the partitioner, boot loader, etc.
Actually, I ran a little test on the Thinkpad (Merom, 1,8GHz, 1GB RAM): booting Ubuntu, starting Virtual Box, and booting XP in it past the login screen took only ten seconds more than booting Vista Bizness on a dedicated disk.
Also kudos to the Lenovo support guy in Amsterdam: I (think I) screwed up the Vista install after shrinking the NTFS and installing the Buntu, but they just send me a recovery disk, even though I probably wrecked it myself and hadn't made a recovery disk. They normally charge you for those disks I think.
I know, Lenovo sponsor the stupid Olympics, but apart from that they're doing a great job.
Yeah.. need Windows for SPSS.. never thought I'd ever need it again... and installing XP needs SATA drivers, that already turns me off, hassling with an external floppy drive or whatever, no way. Installing XP on Thinkpad: need SATA drivers. Installing it on Virtual Box: zilch problems. Isn't that a tiny sort of interesting. :)
People, there's too much for us there in Linux/FLOSS land to enjoy. And the funny thing of it all, is that thanks to much-loathed RMS's little license, what's cool in distro X will soons be equally cool in distro Y and Z.
My distro is better than yours? Haha. Wrong line. Right line: every new release is better than the former.
22 • Hardy Heron (by BlueJayofEvil on 2008-04-28 14:47:20 GMT from United States)
I am impressed with the new Ubuntu 8.04 "Hardy Heron" release. I got it up and running very well within a short amount of time. One thing I did think was foolish was including the BETA version of Firefox 3. Couldn't they just make it optionally available from the repositories? Other than that I really like it. I even installed the "Ubuntu Satanic Edition" theme (www.ubuntusatanic.org) *evil grin*.
23 • ATI Card finally works with Hardy (by R00t on 2008-04-28 14:58:46 GMT from United States)
This is the only distribution EVER that I have been able to get 3D acceleration for my card, an ATI Radeon X1600 XT. I'm finally able to use Compiz. I had previously tried openSUSE, Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu 7.04 and 7.10, and Slackware, all resulting in failure. The upgrade was flawless from 7.10 minus very slow speeds (I upgraded the day it was released.) Been using it since Thursday and no problems thus far except a couple of Firefox 3 Beta bugs.
24 • Ubuntu and Mandriva (by RC on 2008-04-28 15:14:12 GMT from United States)
After dumping Vista finally a couple of months ago and losing my Mepis 7 install in the process I finally went back to dual booting this weekend. I had been waiting for the PCLinux 2008 upgrade, but got tired of XP. I have an HP DV9620 laptop. I tried Mandriva first and it would not boot after installation even though it ran fine from CD and everthing seemed to go well during the install. After the second installationa attempt with the same results I gave up and moved on to Ubuntu. Not an Ubuntu or Gnome fan so when I couldn't find anything anywhere to help me get my wireless drivers installed and running I gave up and went back to Mepis 7. It was installed and I was on the internet in minutes. Mandriva is gorgeous, but when it won't boot and run...not very useful. And Ubuntu is still no distro for a noob. Makes no sense to me since they are so popular you would think they would target that segment. Oh well. Mepis is purring.
25 • @ 24 (by David on 2008-04-28 15:30:03 GMT from United States)
You couldn't find anything to help you get wireless working in Ubuntu? You obviously didn't look very hard, considering literally hundreds of thousands of people have accomplished this. If you can't use google, the ubuntu forums, or the literally hundreds of blogs/fan sites/independent guides, you should just go back to windows.
26 • @24 again (by David on 2008-04-28 15:35:09 GMT from United States)
And "Ubuntu is still no distro for a noob" ? Are you kidding me? It is the easiest, most hand-holding, coddling distribution I have ever seen (never used PCLinux). Not that this is necessarily a good thing.
27 • ref. 17 • The Heron is indeed Hardy! by davemc (by Verndog on 2008-04-28 15:37:55 GMT from United States)
Great news! You really delve into the inter workings of the system. I've jsut ran it livecd. I plan to install at some point. It's amazing how much press is produced by this distro. Keeps Linux going strong.
28 • EeePC (by johncoom on 2008-04-28 15:45:27 GMT from Australia)
Ladislav wrote in his featured story:
"can be easily taken anywhere within the reach of your wireless router for some light browsing"
It is a bit better than that you know ! Here in Melbourne Australia more than a few members of the Local Mlug group have already got the 701 4GB models (including me) and it is not just your Home wireless router, their are many Pub/Bars/Clubs/Cafes that offer free Wireless access to customers, I have personally been to a few my self, and the EeePC wireless works EVERY TIME - Another very good example is one members daughter, has here whiz bang Windows desktop at home and also attends a part time University that offers Wireless access for their Local Net + Internet for all enrolled students. A full size laptop is just to big and bulky for her to lug to University. So she got a EeePC 701 which can fit in her hand bag (or an over coat pocket) takes it to University and can grab any course notes from the local University server, or write up notes during a lecture using Open Office etc. plus check any email (or webmail). Then take it home with her and transfer any thing to the home computer to continue (The EeePC can do Windows sharing). Often completes projects on big home computer and takes them back to University with her EeePC.
Another amazing thing about the EeePC wireless is what one Mlug young whiz kid has already done with their EeePC. They signed up with a wireless ISP here in AU, and managed to set up his EeePC for it ! He now spends the 1/2 hour train trip to/from work, using his EeePC to do productive IT work while doing the train trip. (he is a Whiz kid) Not only that, at a big Open source meet where he was doing demos of MythTV, he had the MythTV front end running on his EeePC (they have a screen out port, so we could see it being displayed on a big screen.
And the this is all on the 701's 4GB machines, the 900 ones have just got/getting to AU. I may fork out the $ and get one ! The possibility's of how one can use EeePC seem limitless. I bought a external usb-hdd (250GB) and even though it was formatted NTFS - Xandros has write mode enabled. I also have an external usb-DVD-rw and with the use of eeePCLinuxOS-LiveUSB I can use K3b to read ISO's from the external HDD and burn as an image to the external DVD-rw (lucky the EeePC has 3 usb ports) Xandro's it self can't do this (or I cant do it with Xandros yet) but the fact that the EeePC can boot from an O/S on the solid-state drive - or usb-stick - or external usb-hdd - or from external usb-DVD/CD-rw makes it possible to do lots of things.
Just some feed back for those of you who are late comers to embracing the event of the EeePC machines.
29 • Asus EEEPC 900 (by Selket on 2008-04-28 16:26:31 GMT from China)
A great OS to try out should be arch. It transformed my 701 into something very fast and very nice.
Installation takes about 30 inutes configuration will take a bit longer on the 900 because some things are different.
And you still got lots of space for stuff.
30 • RE 25 Abondance de "biens" nuit (by dbrion on 2008-04-28 16:31:56 GMT from France)
" If you can't use google, the ubuntu forums, or the literally hundreds of blogs/fan sites/independent guides, you should just go back to windows.
"
Well, suppose there are 200 fora/blogs and it takes 1/4 hr to find what makes one sleepless , to understand it : the confusion is o HUGE that fixing/tweaking a minor (but comfortable) item could take two full days!!!
I suppose fora were meant to fix bugs (a technical function): now, they are rather a measure of "success" (a marketing function, but I do not thing it is in the interest of the end - users ) . I suppose therefore that fora can be linked with ... the number of uncorrected bugs, and claiming it is a success is an error on the long therm.
31 • Nonux and Slackware (by Barnabyh on 2008-04-28 16:47:38 GMT from United Kingdom)
Finally a Nonux English version, have been waiting for this for the last two years. It seems like a nice combination of software, a good base for an average home office desktop (if you like Gnome and don't want Fedora or ...you know the other big one), although of course one can always install Slackware and Dropline Gnome on top.
Slack 12.1 - roll on.
32 • I can understand that (by davemc on 2008-04-28 16:51:20 GMT from United States)
#30 - "Well, suppose there are 200 fora/blogs and it takes 1/4 hr to find what makes one sleepless , to understand it : the confusion is o HUGE that fixing/tweaking a minor (but comfortable) item could take two full days!!!"
It can be a serious pain digging through countless forum posts/guides sometimes to find the one that seems to fit your specific problem. Obscure issues can take even longer. Failing to find an answer within a reasonable amount of time often leads people to post redundant questions, which adds to the problem and often sets the scene for flame wars. A better system is needed for sure.
33 • Re: 25 "go back to Windows" (by Anonymous on 2008-04-28 16:58:32 GMT from United States)
[i]If you can't use google, the ubuntu forums, or the literally hundreds of blogs/fan sites/independent guides, you should just go back to windows.[/i]
I had a similar problem as the OP (#24) putting Linux on a laptop, as a surprise for my wife. I could only work on it at hotspots, and couldn't get the wireless to work - which made using Google difficult! :-)
So, please be careful before assuming that the OP "didn't try very hard".
34 • Mono (by Tony on 2008-04-28 17:15:59 GMT from United States)
Why did Ubuntu stick with 1.2.6 which is nearly 5 months old. OpenSuse, Fedora, and Mandriva all are using 1.9 or later. I hope they address this in 8.04.1.
Also, I'm not sure why they shipped with Firefox 3 Beta. Couldn't they have just left in Firefox 2 and then update that to Firefox 3 Final in June/July when 8.04.1 is released?
35 • CrossOver Games for FreeBSD (by nix on 2008-04-28 17:16:38 GMT from United States)
Just letting everyone know that CrossOver is starting some test of FreeBSD / PC-BSD.
http://games.slashdot.org/games/08/04/21/0213251.shtml
36 • Eee PC (by Amy on 2008-04-28 17:17:42 GMT from United States)
I like the price and that they come in pink but not enough storage space to do what I want.
It does work very very well though.
37 • Eee PC (by Anonymous on 2008-04-28 17:36:19 GMT from United States)
This Eee PC laptop looks very promising. Does anyone remember the low cost laptop that was announced about 6-12 months ago that everyone thought was a scam? I'm drawing a blank on the name of that product. And having seen nothing of it recently, maybe it was a scam after all.
38 • Arch forums (by Anonymous on 2008-04-28 17:56:45 GMT from United States)
I've been seeing some strange things going on in the Arch forums and more generally in that distro lately.
Yesterday I saw a thread about some of the problems with the repos in Arch being outdated. There were a few suggestions for things that could be done to address those problems. There wasn't a lot of criticism or finger pointing, but clearly some users are frustrated, and I have shared that frustration at times.
So when I went back just now to see where the discussion was going, the thread had been closed. The last post by the moderator ended:
"Arch provides perhaps the most high-quality ports-like system available, to build packages from source- ABS. It can be used most effectively in instances like this
Thread closed."
So apparently the Arch forum mods censor any topic if they disagree with any part of it. Besides the fact that he missed the point completely, it seems a poor way to run a distro. This is not the first strange behavior I've seen in the forums and elsewhere.
Anyone else have experiences there? I know there are a lot of Arch users who post here.
39 • RE: #18 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-28 17:58:27 GMT from France)
"I used it for a couple of years and had highs and lows and eventually had to give up."
So you haven't actually used Debian Testing lately? Then, of course, you wouldn't know that the Debian Release Team now "concentrates on release issues for the entire period, trying to ensure that Testing is always in a reasonable and consistent state," as the new Debian Project Leader said in a recent interview. This effort has really started to show after the Etch release.
http://www.itwire.com/content/view/17716/1090/
"Though security generally seems okay in testing, they make it clear that there is no formal security effort for testing."
Again, your information seems to be quite outdated. Actually, Debian Testing has had a dedicated and fully functional security team for some time now, with some limitations. The security testing archive was integrated with the main Debian security archive already in May 2006, hence making its position official.
http://secure-testing-master.debian.net/
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/05/msg00006.html
40 • Re: 18 (by Kaufhaus Schneider on 2008-04-28 18:00:51 GMT from United Kingdom)
> Based on my own experience, Debian testing works sometimes. They are
> very touchy about anyone complaining about anything in testing. If it
> works, fine. If it doesn't work, fine too. I got burned by thinking
> testing is suitable as a desktop.
> The Debian project clearly states that only Stable should be used if
> you want a working system.
> Testing can have problems for weeks and months at a time. The software
> varies greatly in age from cutting edge to nine months behind cutting
> edge. Though security generally seems okay in testing, they make it
> clear that there is no formal security effort for testing.
Evidently, you were running Testing before the Debian Testing Security Team was established.
> Not trying to argue with you, just making the point that testing
> usually works, but can be very unusable for long periods of time.
If you were to return to Testing, I think you might be pleasantly surprised. These days there's far more emphasis placed on stability and day-to-day usability.
As I pointed out to someone last week, there are currently fewer Release Critical
bugs assigned to Testing than Stable! FWIW I'm in the process of migrating from Fedora to Lenny precisely because I need a "rolling beta" distro, but one that's unlikely to foist immature technology on its users -- Fedora 8's PulseAudio fiasco comes to mind, but also Fedora 9's KDE 4.0.x!
41 • Ubuntu what else.. (by flojlg on 2008-04-28 18:00:54 GMT from France)
I live with hardy my worse experience since long ago with Linux.
Impossible to get wifi, or a working screen with nv or nvidia, various bug rebooting my system.
I gave a shot to the fedora 9 as I was soooo desapointed.
Despite it 's still a beta (or preversion ) everything works out of the box.
I wonder by the way why debian do not have a "fedora project" as red-hat than leaving Ubuntu taking all the benefit of the hard work that it's team deploy in Linux distro ??
42 • Ubuntu goes 1 step forward and 2 backward (by MacLone on 2008-04-28 18:17:28 GMT from Mexico)
That 6 month cycle is proven to be hard to achieve for the ubuntu guys. There is a lot of new good stuff...only if it worked at least once. The new international super clock when you change to spanish only works with 24 hour, it does not matter if you change to 12 hour, remains 24. The super new video configuration tool didn't work at least for me, i could not change anything. The non free drivers for my modem and BCM43xx wireless card was not recognized by the restricted drivers tool and not installed as 7.10 did.
What's the point? goes 1 step forward and 2 backward.
43 • Nonux, No AddedValue, No Choice (by capricornus on 2008-04-28 18:28:31 GMT from Belgium)
I just did it again, hoping to discover some yesss-distro like Granular, but No No, not this Dutch behind-the-rest-distro. There is hardly any choice of screen resolutions, the sound is (some)where? but not active, the rest is boring, it works and that's it. The unappreciated Wolvix Hunter did this long before and even then is the better of the two. I stay with Mint, Mepis and Granular, thank you.
44 • 39, 40 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-28 18:43:19 GMT from United States)
From http://www.debian.org/security/faq#testing
(a couple of minutes ago):
"Q: How is security handled for testing?
A: If you want to have a secure (and stable) server you are strongly encouraged to stay with stable. However, there is some limited security support for testing: The Debian testing security team handles unembargoed issues for testing."
So even though there is a testing security team, it is not really what it needs to be for everyday usage of Debian testing. My use of the term "formal security effort" was probably too vague, but I meant that it is only a limited effort.
As for usage on the desktop, I do not mean you update and your computer doesn't boot up anymore. I'm referring to badly outdated packages or packages with non-critical bugs. My warning to potential users of Debian testing is that you should expect sometimes to be stuck with really old software that may not work the way you like.
I gave up on Lenny only a few months ago. I would not recommend it to most users. If you want to use cutting edge Debian you should use Sidux. Not that Lenny is terrible, but most users will probably be disappointed at times.
45 • RE: 43 and RE: 44 (by Béranger on 2008-04-28 18:57:45 GMT from Romania)
I am somehow against Nonux (no source packages, and while you can get source packages for Slackware, you can't for Dropline, it's a known issue, you can get the packages upstream if still available, but this is non-compliant with GPL), but the internal microphone of my laptop, mike that doesn't work with Wolvix (in XFCE) does work with Nonux (in GNOME, specifically Ekiga)!!!
As for Debian testing and security, things have indeed improved considerably in recent times, no matter what that web page still says. I remember how the relatively recent vm_splice() kernel vulnerability was patched in testing something like less than 2 days after it was first patched in stable.
46 • David - #25 (by RC on 2008-04-28 19:23:52 GMT from United States)
Ignoring for the moment the tone of your reply...Mepis was installed and I was online in about five minutes...without me doing a single thing other than putting in my password information. If a One Horse show can do that...why can't the mighty Ubuntu? With $10 million dollars they can't figure out how to do WiFi automatically like Warren can out of his own pocket? Why should I have to google anything? Why should I have to go to a forum to get on the internet with a laptop? If you are under the impression that Ubuntu is a noob friendly distro you are sadly mistaken.
As to the tone of your response. I have been using Linux for over a year now and I am, unfortunately, used to obnoxious elitest answers like that. And answers like that are why many who try Linux do go back to Windows instead of forging ahead and making the transition. Congratulations....you are part of the problem, not the solution. Thank heavens their are some great people here and on other forums that are patient, understanding and helpful. Without them there would be no linux except in nerd closets.
47 • Klikit Linux (by T on 2008-04-28 19:34:18 GMT from United States)
It's a shame that DW will not post a review of Klikit Linux. Klikit is a really polished distro.
48 • @34 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-28 19:35:52 GMT from Canada)
mono should not be included in any linux distro.
who needs dll files on a linux machine?
49 • RE: 44 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-28 19:38:54 GMT from Germany)
"Q: How is security handled for testing?
A: If you want to have a secure (and stable) server you are strongly encouraged to stay with stable."
That sounds about right. Debian Stable is the best choice for servers, Debian Testing is fine for desktops. I've used Debian Testing on my desktop since the 4.0 release (codename "Etch") and I've only encountered a couple of minor issues, not any show-stoppers like those you describe.
If you want to give Lenny another try, please visit the Debian User Forums. ( http://forums.debian.net/ ) There are lots of others there who happily run Lenny as desktop and they will help you in any Debian-related problems. There's also a "Howtos" section that offers new Debian users some valuable tips. Check out this thread, for instance:
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=13362
50 • Debian Testing Makes a Nice Desktop OS (by Rupert on 2008-04-28 19:52:35 GMT from United States)
I agree with the others who say that Debian testing works great as a desktop system - I've been running the same installation for over two years with no problems. You do typically have to wait a few weeks for some packages to be updated, but that is the nature of the testing version of Debian - software does not move from unstable until it's in good working order.
I don't see how typically being around a month behind with a rolling update-based OS like Debian testing is any worse than varying from being on the cutting edge to being six months behind like with something like Ubuntu.
51 • @38 (by Daniel on 2008-04-28 19:56:52 GMT from Germany)
Well i Think you are exaggerating. First the whole post of the forum admin:
As happens all too often, this is rapidly turning into a complaint vs defense exercise. Complaints do not solve these issues- though requests sometimes do.
Arch provides perhaps the most high-quality ports-like system available, to build packages from source- ABS. It can be used most effectively in instances like this
Thread closed.
Out of context (as you did put it) he seems like a cranky forum admin. But indeed with ABS you can easily reconfigure a package and thats it
52 • Klikit-Linux (by YMMV on 2008-04-28 20:16:21 GMT from United States)
Re: #47
Information about this is at: http://cafelinux.org/distropedia/?q=node/127
Yes, it seems very polished for a release candidate.
53 • @38 (by Sigi on 2008-04-28 20:31:01 GMT from United States)
What a way of dealing with such things is it to post a anonymous comment on Distrowatch weekly when the distro in question wasn't even featured in there? I using Arch for years and the Arch Forums are an awesome and welcoming place for questions of all kind.
Posting such things anonymously is like writing anonymous mails to the main developer of a distro - oh wait: http://phraktured.net/anonymous-email-what-the-hell.html
Best regards, Sigi
54 • No subject (by adlucem on 2008-04-28 21:35:11 GMT from France)
51: i've seen the context while it developed, and in my opinion the closing of the thread was uncalled for.
53: I agree, complaining about *name the distro*'s fora (or some users tendency) on DWW is also uncalled for.
55 • 51, 53 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-28 21:38:06 GMT from United States)
@53: I think you missed the point of my post. I was trying to get feedback from *outside* of the very forums that have goofy moderators. You'll get nothing but "Arch is awesome" responses in the Arch forums. If not the thread will be closed.
You are anonymous as well. Writing Sigi for your name does not change anything.
@51: I omitted the first part of his post because it didn't seem relevant. I don't see how that possibly changes anything. He decided that it was somehow "complaining" and closed the thread, on the basis that his reasoning was better than anyone else's.
The point made by those who posted (and I wish I had been able to) was that Arch pretends to be a binary distro, and there are problems with the available packages. Saying that you can compile for yourself is a lame response.
In any event, a moderator should not close a thread just because he doesn't like a certain discussion.
Yes, Arch was not discussed in this DWW, but it never is. I was under the impression that the discussion could cover all distros as long as it's relevant to what's happening now.
56 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-04-28 21:45:44 GMT from United States)
@55: But you don't even get the solution offered in the thread. The alternative package in the AUR provides a binary! distribution of Wine, so no compilation of Wine is needed.
Cheers Sigi aka Christoph Siegenthaler
57 • Ubuntu/Spring (by eptech1 on 2008-04-28 22:38:30 GMT from United States)
I put Ubuntu on and I was very excited. With that said, the excitement wore off. The wireless began giving me problems, firefox beta wouldn't load and I wasn't even able to open a terminal at one point. Sure, I could have messed around, but why when I just put Mandriva Spring on which is solid for my hardware out of the box! Very good job to both...just better for Spring for me!
58 • Ubuntu / Kubuntu / Klikit (by Soloact on 2008-04-28 23:10:25 GMT from United States)
This is yet another reason that Ubuntu should just make one distro, and offer the alternate desktop environments.
The latest Kubuntu seems quite stripped down in relation to Ubuntu. Not only the CD version, but also the DVD version, which one would think would at least have all of the programs from Ubuntu. Kubuntu doesn't even install Firefox, to show you how stripped it is. Not a good move by Cannonical, as would-be-Linux-converts would be turned off by not having the fully-loaded operating system that Ubuntu has. Guess installing Ubuntu, then getting the KDE packages is the way to go, but a PITA for end-users.
Don't get me wrong, Kubuntu is quite solid, and is good with hardware. Better than the previous version, but empty as it is.
Also, as #47 had mentioned, Klikit is a decent "based-on-Kubuntu" distro. So is LinuxMint KDE.
59 • Sparkly new computer just begging for some hot Linux action (by RuralRob on 2008-04-28 23:21:13 GMT from United States)
Just unboxed my new Gateway FX7026 (Intel Q9300 quad, 4GB Ram, Nvidia 8800GT). After the backup of my Windoze partitions finishes, I'm going to wipe it and install Linux. Can't decide though if I want to go with my usual Sidux, or inject my machine with some Heady Heroin. Oh, what flavor of my OS drug of choice shall I partake this time???
60 • 56 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-28 23:52:14 GMT from United States)
I'd rather not clog up Ladislav's comments section on this issue (my apologies) but that package appears to be more of a hack, depending on a different distro's package, and furthermore it violates Arch's rules, because a package for Wine already exists in the repos. It will almost certainly be deleted in the next couple of days (as I witnessed for the Abiword 2.6 PKGBUILD that I wanted).
There's the bigger issue here, though, that goes beyond Wine. The devs agree to be maintainer of a package and then the package sits for months at a time. It's not allowed to do anything other than wait for the dev at that point or else compile yourself, hoping the existing PKGBUILD works.
That's a huge problem for Arch and I don't think the answer is to close threads that bring up the problem. I think it's fair to point out the problem at Distrowatch, which is the largest site for discussion of Linux distros.
61 • #59 - new computer (by ray carter at 2008-04-29 00:20:09 GMT from United States)
I'd suggest you pick one and then maybe try some others in a VirtualBox. It's a nice way to look at things without the multi boot hassle.
62 • #25, #46 (by BP on 2008-04-29 00:35:50 GMT from United States)
David... Go back to Windows?? This mentality, that one must be technically competent to use Linux, is no longer necessary. Linux can be truly user-friendly, as MEPIS and some other distros have shown.
Ubuntu is a fantastic fun distro for experimentation and for trying out the latest and greatest. It is well-suited for users who are curious and capable of figuring out how their system works. The forum is a tremendous resource. It is a huge success because it suits many people just fine.
However, for everyday use, where things have to just work, I exercised the option to use one of the distros that is suited for the masses. Over a year ago I installed MEPIS 6.5 on 3 different PCs. It has been flawless, absolutely flawless.
IMO Windows XP was not as bad an OS as some here might say, but unless we feel a need to play certain games, there is no reason for us to use it. Let's not encourage anyone to financially support corporate execs who have shown an inclination to disregard the public good.
RC... Like it or not, it was people like David who brought Linux to the place where Warren and his friends, as well as those people at Mandriva, could develop user-friendly-Linux. Although the mentality is obsolete, we owe these people.
63 • correction to 62 (by BP on 2008-04-29 00:43:25 GMT from United States)
I meant it was "those people at Ubuntu", upon which MEPIS 6.5 was based, which brought Linux to this point.
64 • Nokia's N810 Internet Tablet (by beany on 2008-04-29 01:54:08 GMT from United States)
I'm hearing that this hottie is going to be Ubuntu-able. I have one of Nokia's first net tablet an i am not at all impressed with the Maemo OS. I have not been a Buntu lover yet but would love to have a full Distro running on this itty bitty little tablet. Smaller than the Eee PC....similar price.
Lock up your hard drives girls... Hans Reiser found guilty of murder today!!!
65 • Links... Linking here! (by iMoron on 2008-04-29 03:25:52 GMT from Puerto Rico)
Hey Ladislav, I wanted to ask if you could make the link for the comments section in the front page point directly to the "Comments" instead of to the botton of the "DWW" as it does now...???
Besides that, I just took a look at Kubuntu and I find it empty like someone mentioned already. But for me it gets a bit more empty since the KDE4 version lacks way more than I could handle.
For example: the aparent replacement of "kcontrol" with "system settings", I know I can install it for the KDE4 version but why take it out in the first place. Same goes with "kinfocenter", where the hell is it, or its replasement, ok so there is the command line "lspci" (or something like that) but am acostume to seen how my ram is use when testing... among other things...
Dolfin looks nice and works nice, and the Oxigen theme is clean. I will try and see if I keep it for some time but I feel that a wate for 8.10 would be better for me... eaider way it looks good but empty and limiting... Thats my problem I guess... :(
What other Linux do any of you recomend for me to have a look at?
66 • Kilkit (by T on 2008-04-29 03:30:48 GMT from United States)
@ 58 - The funny thing is that DW will not review Klikit. Figure that out.
67 • RE: 65 Links... Linking here! (by ladislav on 2008-04-29 03:34:38 GMT from Taiwan)
There is a link in the main navigation bar (top of each page). It's called "Comments".
68 • RE: 66 Kilkit (by ladislav on 2008-04-29 03:36:37 GMT from Taiwan)
There are 350 active distributions and another 200 on the waiting list. Sorry, I can't review everything - I am just a human. If, on the other hand, you wish to review Klikit and want to submit it to DistroWatch, you are most welcome.
69 • Klikit (by T on 2008-04-29 05:39:47 GMT from United States)
A review by myself probably wouldn't get Klikit on the PH list.
70 • RE 43 Nunux downloading, CD burning and weeping.... (by dbrion on 2008-04-29 06:28:12 GMT from France)
"Nonux, No AddedValue, No Choice (by capricornus on 2008-04-28 18:28:31 GMT from Belgium)"
(add : no method, .....)
What are the reasons of choosing to download /burn a business *work* oriented distro? fun?
As they fairly claim it???
"(It is optimised for business use",)
"I just did it again, "
Again....
Errare humanum est, .....perseverare diabolicum ....
"hoping to discover some yesss-distro like Granular, but No No, not this Dutch behind-the-rest-distro. There is hardly any choice of screen resolutions, the sound is (some)where? but not active, the rest is boring, it works and that's it. "
As work oriented distros are meant to 'just work', (music can lead to conflicts), I would call it rather a success.....
71 • dbrion's good question (by dubigrasu on 2008-04-29 06:48:58 GMT from Romania)
dbrion wrote: "Does its flash (20G now) support many writes (flash had/has (I hope I am wrong) a bad reputation w/r writing (it was unpossible to edit a text while saving it, to compile, then one roasted ones USB key)"
That's a very good question I think...Anyone knows what's the life expectancy for the Eee 900's flash memory ?
72 • Here's To A Return to Sanity For Six Months (by Larry Dart on 2008-04-29 07:01:32 GMT from United Kingdom)
At last! Hardy Heron is released. Hurray!! Let's now forget the hype and hyperbole. Let's return to sanity for the next six months. Ubuntu is not the only Linux distro on the planet. Ubuntu is not the best Linux distro on the planet, there is no such thing. Ubuntu is no better than the other popular distro's. Now repeat after me, Ububtu is just another Linux distro.
73 • Re: 37 • Eee PC (by Anonymous on 2008-04-29 07:29:03 GMT from Australia)
Anonymous from USA wrote:
"This Eee PC laptop looks very promising. Does anyone remember the low cost laptop that was announced about 6-12 months ago that everyone thought was a scam? I'm drawing a blank on the name of that product. And having seen nothing of it recently, maybe it was a scam after all."
Perhaps it was the 'Everex Cloudbook' ? I do not think its a scam though !
See here: http://www.everex.com/products/cloudbook/cloudbook.htm
74 • Page hit ranking (by Azrael Nightwalker on 2008-04-29 07:53:52 GMT from Poland)
There is a nice comparison of Distrowatch's page hit ranking with Google Trends results:
http://www.junauza.com/2008/04/distro-rankings-and-popularity-ratings.html
Apparently it differs much for the year 2007, where PCLinuxOS does very low in Google Trends. This could mean that their page hits on Distrowatch were manipulated.
75 • RE 74 .. or, symetrically, that Google Trends were manipulated. (by dbrion on 2008-04-29 08:17:52 GMT from France)
I do not see any profit PClol could draw of being the first in DW HPD (not linked with any PC manufacturer/seller, IT society and godTexstar seems to avoid that AFAIK.).
I do not see which profit anyone could draw from such a manipulation... (perhaps a weird sense of humor?)
Even in exact sciences (for example : measurig the surface of tree leaves -marroniers en français-) two measures of perfectly defined quantities may be inconsistent....
76 • eeePC (by Tillerman on 2008-04-29 08:39:09 GMT from Germany)
Hello all ,
at first I think its a good thing that so many people are forced to take a look at linux ,
when buying this eeePC .
But it does not show up the real power of linux as I read from many articles .
instead of optimizing the system-integration asus builts in more ram ,faster cpu and so follows the "widows" direction not to care for the environment .
This text is written on an OLPC-laptop using sidux (debian-sid) with the kernel and modules from OLPC-projekt and KDE .
This machine is capable of doing all the tasks from the article above with as little as
256 MB ram and a CPU of 433Mhtz and using only around 2 Watts of energy or less .
I think (despite of the rumours about installing widows to that wonderful piece of hardware) that shows of the quality of linux and GNU software
better than a machine that could run "vista" from the hardware installed .
Greetz Tillerman
77 • on the eee (by arno911 on 2008-04-29 11:04:43 GMT from Germany)
years ago they sold tft displays, 9", 1024x768 for about 200 euros. makes me think, that those can be produced for far less than 50 euros today. but they offer a 8.9" display (and call it 900??) with only 1024x600 and not every window will fit on the screen. the keyboard is ok for such a small device, but not more than that. asus wasnt able to deliver - eee PCs are rare to find on the market: sold out here sold out there sold out everywhere. hard to believe cause its a rather overpriced toy (i wonder what it may cost in the EU. I BET it will be more than 335 euros.) scandalous :)
i'd like to have a small mobile PC, but not this half and half piece of overpriced hardware, sorry. I heard that there will be other vendors jumping on the "cheap and small PC" train. I hope someone will offer a product I like more. Im willing to carry 4 pounds of weight, but I want a descent display and a dvd writer.
78 • klikit comments (by Bob at 2008-04-29 12:06:43 GMT from United States)
Well klikit-eers I guess if you cant astroturf on distrowatch where can you?
I seem to recall some statements that were made over at the klikit forums by member(s) of the klikit team. Something about a 'bribe' to be listed on distrowatch and it being about money and so forth. That thread appears to have disappeared now - to make everything nice and clean I guess.
79 • BP - #62 & #63 (by RC on 2008-04-29 13:12:58 GMT from United States)
Please don't interpret my "rant" as coming down on Ubuntu. I agree that they have contributed a great deal toward getting attention for the Linux community. They make a great distro as is proven by the number of people using it.
My quibble was with the comments David made that someone who wasn't willing to spend a few hours time cruising the internet for information on how to get on the internet was too stupid and lazy to use Linux. MS and Apple are very appreciative of that kind of perverse logic I am sure.
As good a distro as Ubuntu is, it is not noob friendly. Mepis, PCLinxOS and Mint all make it extremely easy to get your laptop in the internet and they are all home grown distros. Ubuntu definitely has the funds and manpower to do it just as well. Frankly, every linux version should have picked up on that by now since we are firmly entrenched in an exploding laptop market.
Regardless of how people like David or Corporations like Ubuntu look at it...the future of Linux is not the nerd willing to spend days getting a system setup. It is the computer neophyte that wants to put in the disk, answer a few understandable questions and start using their machine.
I have over twenty years in IT and still make my living that way. i just have no time or interest in learning the CLI at this point. And why should I when other distros meet that need. If Ubuntu wants to be all things to all people it needs to take a look at its smaller competition and learn how to do things better. And if David is happy to use the CLI, then that is great. However, making the comments he did will not benefit the Linux community, and any users and developers that have that mindset are only holding Linux back. Personally I want to see Linux explode and become part of the mainstream....and attitudes need to change for that to happen.
80 • Debian (by texasmike on 2008-04-29 13:51:33 GMT from United States)
Well, went back to using pure Debian. I have discovered first hand that the grass is not greener on the other side. And I will leave it at that.
81 • suggestions (by Re:@53 (Sigi) on 2008-04-29 13:55:53 GMT from United States)
Sigi, I agree that the arch community is friendly but about suggestions to change something which developers don't like is the waste of time because they don't want to change anything.
Former Arch User
82 • 79 - Linux growth (by Anon. on 2008-04-29 14:09:22 GMT from Norway)
RC wrote "And if David is happy to use the CLI, then that is great. However, making the comments he did will not benefit the Linux community, and any users and developers that have that mindset are only holding Linux back. Personally I want to see Linux explode and become part of the mainstream....and attitudes need to change for that to happen."
Amen.
That, and some (more) cooperation between the main actors - ref. Shuttleworth's comments cited in this issue of DW - would really change things for the better a lot faster. I am crossing my fingers!
83 • RE 71 : life expectancy for the Eee 900's flash memory ? (by Anonymous on 2008-04-29 15:28:49 GMT from France)
A sketch of an answer is given in Gentoo's newsletter of March 2008, $5 : (http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gmn/20080317-newsletter.xml) "Using an USB stick as a swap filesystem"....
For a 4 G key, with two hypotheses :
* the writing wear is spread evenly on evey disk block
* one writes all the time at maximum spead
Gentoo's letter estimate was between 3 weeks (10000 writes allowable for a given block) and 8 months 10E6 writes/block).
If one has a 400 M stick, it makes times ... 10 times shorter... which is ... short...
If one has an OS and some data on such a disk (same technology, I fear), I suppose, and hope I am wrong!, the mechanism spreading the writing wear will be limited to free blocks (if it works), and the situation of temporary files (for compilation, text editing with periodic copies sometimes) can be ennoying if there remains 'only' 0.1G , 0.4 G..
84 • Kiwi 8.04rc (by Tony on 2008-04-29 15:34:57 GMT from United States)
I'm glad to see Kiwi 8.04rc is ready. I think the folks at Kiwi have done a good job and I look forward to the Distribution Release. I like Ubuntu, but I like the different programs Kiwi provides.
85 • ref. 80 • Debian by texasmike (by verndog on 2008-04-29 16:35:00 GMT from United States)
Wow! I'm surprised. You seemed like a Sudix fan forever. What happened? Issue with Sidux or what?
86 • RE: 3, 12, @JimK: Control the referer (by on by on by on 2008-04-29 16:38:09 GMT from Germany)
RE: 3, 12, @JimK
For total control about what is sent as referer use the Firefox-Addon REFCONTROL.
Use the REPLACE(http://SITE/)-option and no more problems with undisplayed graphics or logos.
Try it and you will never surf the web whithout it ;-)
http://addons.mozilla.org/ or http://www.stardrifter.org/refcontrol
RefControl, ScreenGrab and AdBlockPlus are my favorite Firefox-Addons.
87 • more good distro news (by on by on by on 2008-04-29 16:45:06 GMT from Germany)
From http://www.debris.moonmind.net
"New Release: Debris Linux 1.0 Final!
(on April 05, 2008, 20:38:00)
The moment we all have been waiting for has finally arrived: Debris Linux 1.0 has been released!
After almost a year of intense development and testing, we're proud to present the first official stable release of Debris Linux.
Debris Linux is a small, efficient GNU/Linux distribution with a modern and stable core and a set of useful applications. You can use it as a LiveCD or install it to a partition on your hard drive."
and
"New maintenance release: Debris Linux 1.0.1
( on April 27, 2008, 14:50:00)
There are also some good news about the site: We've got our own domain now. Please update your bookmarks and links to:
http://debrislinux.org/"
I think it's time for Debris to jump into the DW-Database.
88 • @ verndog (by texasmike on 2008-04-29 17:16:28 GMT from United States)
Hey Verndog!
Nah, software I can fix or deal with. A bozo moderator, I cannot.
So back to Debian I went. But I stay low. Too many self-proclaimed experts.
89 • Klikit on DistroWatch (by sqlpython on 2008-04-29 17:32:50 GMT from United States)
post #78 by BOB says
""I seem to recall some statements that were made over at the klikit forums by member(s) of the klikit team. Something about a 'bribe' to be listed on distrowatch and it being about money and so forth. That thread appears to have disappeared now - to make everything nice and clean I guess.""
Seems only wise and prudent to remove a non-founded remark.
Anything that is possible to write will some way appear in a post.
So, if you see junk you eliminate it ..No? Just good responsible policy.
As far as a KLIKIT review I would think the proper/useful review would be when the KLIKIT finally leaves the Beta stage. Right now it is an interesting.. progressive and innovative Distro spreading it's wings.
Good things will be coming from the KLIKIT camp
90 • re: 73 Eee PC (by Anonymous on 2008-04-29 17:48:05 GMT from United States)
Anonymous from USA wrote regarding the unknown cheap laptop:
"Perhaps it was the 'Everex Cloudbook' ? I do not think its a scam though !"
No, this was a whole new company that came (and apparently went) out of nowhere. Some people even placed orders online for units that weren't produced yet.
91 • RE: 81 - consistency is a valid option (by KimTjik on 2008-04-29 18:06:09 GMT from Sweden)
Slackware - predictable, stable and it's true to its original design. While including the same improved packages it's keeps on providing some users exactly what they expect.
Arch - not as conservative as Slackware but the developers seem overall committed to the original Arch idea. While it's evolving faster than Slackware, it still delivers more or less what Arch users expect.
I can't even recall Slackware being treated in the same way as Arch. Maybe because Slackware has the same famous leader as always and is less known as bleeding edge. With so many distributions, some fundamentally different, others more flavours of the some concept, why is it a bad thing that developers of whatever distribution try to be true to an idea? Arch can't be everything for everyone, just as I hope Slackware to keep on being Slackware.
Ok, we might disagree with the developers, but what gives us the right to change their vision? Have we contributed to the extent of being on level with them and hence gained the right to make demands? I suspect a twisted understanding of democracy add to the problem; many (I'm in no way pointing a finger at you, I'm now speaking more generally) seem to believe that joining a group gives an absolute right to make demands, or interpreting loudness as an value of how spread some view is.
While being community driven distributions can't allow themselves to be overly concerned about every expressed opinion in forums. Without a strong leadership everything eventually fails, and strong leadership will at times mean stepping on someone's toes, in the sense that everyone can't be pleased.
Still we all have the right to have opinions, as long as we don't force them upon others. Anyhow, since I responded to your post # 81, I hope you found yourself some other distribution that fits your needs better, because that's what matter in the end of the day.
92 • 87 Cynical appreciation about Débris linux (by dbrion on 2008-04-29 18:34:49 GMT from France)
"Debris Linux 1.0 has been released!
After almost a year of intense development and testing, we're proud to present the first official stable release of Debris Linux.
Debris Linux is a small, efficient GNU/Linux distribution with a modern and stable core and a set of useful applications. ."
Would it have been less informative if they had written:
"After more than 18 months of careless development and occasional testing, we are ashamed to release...
D Lx is a bloated GNU/linux distr withe a buggy outfashioned core, and a set of unuseful apps...."
Perhaps it would be sexier (and more user friendly) if they tried to convey what makes them different from others, which kind of users they look for, in a less ritual, meaningless way....
93 • 88 • texasmike (by Anonymous on 2008-04-29 18:53:14 GMT from United States)
Bozos. I was afraid of that. Yes, I'm beginning to feel the same way. To muc opinon and not enought real facts. Seperating the two can be time consuming.
I love debian, also Slackware is a great choice. Right now I just installed ubuntu latest offering and want to give it a try before I make a mistake.
I had trouble with debian and my sound card. So I backed it up and installed Mandriva. I was gungho on Mandriva because of it's fonts. I thought I was, until I discovered their no different then most distros. I am using ubuntu right now, and I like the Firefox fonts.
We'll see.
94 • Re Post 2 (by DenZen on 2008-04-29 19:17:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
Quote: "I'm glad Linux is making inroads in the Desktop Market. It is never easy to configure a Windows Machine to use Linux: to many parts made only for Windows. It is always a headache trying to make things work that are not native to Linux"
What is a 'Windows machine' (these days)?
The parts are native to nothing more than the PC itself.
It's the drivers for the devices that are (or have been) the issue.
The answer is to buy / build a PC that is not heavily tied into closed source 'windows only' drivers.
My main 'PC' is a Mac (intel) it runs OSX, XP and Linux beautifully.
Vista too - out of curiosity - then removed.. (I didnt like my machine running that slowly - thanks... sheesh!! - what a crock of sh.... anyhoo ..
I need drivers to get XP/Vista fully running.
Ubuntu OTOH had *everything* working well - right out of the box.
Debian Lenny too. (OK, after some initial customary fiddling - but thats the Debian experience on most rigs, let alone a Mac).
Folks, its come of age (Linux) - enjoy it!
If you need specific or exotic hardware, then often the MS route is simply the price that must be paid. Literally.
95 • @93 (by texasmike on 2008-04-29 19:19:31 GMT from United States)
Just 1 bozo. And I won't name the person because it serves no purpose.
If I had an older PC or laptop, Slack would be the way to go ( for me ). May I suggest searching the Debian forum (ahem) or Linuxquestions.org for your sound issue before giving up on Debian? At the risk of starting a flame war, Debian is hard to beat. Good luck.
96 • Re 26 @ 24 (by DeniZen on 2008-04-29 19:35:13 GMT from United Kingdom)
Quote: And "Ubuntu is still no distro for a noob" ? Are you kidding me? It is the easiest, most hand-holding, coddling distribution I have ever seen (never used PCLinux). Not that this is necessarily a good thing.
Spot on!
Anyone who says Ubuntu is not Noob friendly (and therefore doing real GOOD toward the notion of spreading the gospel) surely must simply have a personal agenda, or some difficulties in accepting basics!
97 • The Heron Did A Swan Dive (by Landor on 2008-04-29 20:04:26 GMT from Canada)
I thought I'd run the latest two from the Ubuntu stables, Ubuntu proper and Kubuntu. Both were horrid in my personal opinion.
I agree with a previous post where the graphics and a number of other issues have come into play with this release.
I tried both on two different boxes and also under Vbox. Vbox it was fine, and that's expected (for hardware only). For the actual installs, what a mess, and seriously? I know it's a wallpaper, but the Heron is ugly, they did no justice to it, or the wallpaper. But on two different mashines, both of them didn't detect/configure the graphics and sound properly. Nor when I tried to change them did it accept the changes.
Anyone notice how short the cycles were for testing this? Nobody could pursuade me that this was released in 100% working order.
This is just one more reason why a yearly release cycle should be adopted by most, if not all distros. What a waste of a 15 cent cd, not including the time and effort people put into testing it, building it, reporting bugs, other resources and bandwidth wasted.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
98 • #96 (by BP on 2008-04-29 20:49:47 GMT from United States)
DeniZen... Everyone has a personal agenda. In fact, most of us have several competing agendas and constantly struggle with our priorities.
Ubuntu has chosen a particular balance among many factors, including ease of use, support for proprietary (closed source) software, and preference for open source software. Perhaps the Ubuntu agenda gives some consideration to loyal enthusiasts, such as yourself, who believe that being "easiest" is "not... necessarily a good thing".
Why not give a serious tryout to PCLOS and other distros that claim to emphasize ease-of-use before making comparisons. They are all getting so good now, that you are bound to have fun!
99 • Re: 97: The Heron (by Anon. on 2008-04-29 21:08:21 GMT from Norway)
I have never seen the Ubuntu Heron wallpaper, but the pictures of it looks great. However, I have Kubuntu installed on one disk. With the exception of the stupid counting misconfiguration between the OS and GRUB if you happen to have a SATA RAID, Kubuntu has performed flawlessly for what I have tried under it. It boots a wee bit slowlier than Archlinux, Bluewhite64 and PCLinuxOS, but is really snappy once up. It found and configured *everything* automatically and even asked if I wanted it to install the flgrx driver for my ATI card. The fonts are beautiful! I have only seen similar quality in Mandriva and Granular. Too bad most Linux distros can't be bothered to do likewise. PCLinuxOS is also good in this area, while the otherwise great Archlinux is among the worst. For a newbie, Kubuntu must be about perfect and is perhaps, together with Mandriva, the best distro in this category today.
100 • eAr OS (by alsterfan on 2008-04-29 21:37:51 GMT from Germany)
According to what was promised on the earos website (http://www.earos.dk/) I was pretty keen on looking at this (to me) new distro. But the disappointment was big, as neither the look of the desktop appeared to be as shown on the website (Mac OS like) nore was everything working "out of the box". For example a flashplayer was not installed and the Media Center did not work at all (I hope I was not too stupid to make these things work).
Maybe the explanation to this is the existance of eAR RT-OS, which you are invited to buy. For me this is not the way how a distro could water my mouth. So my curiosity was cut short very quickly bringing me back to Dreamlinux and Linux Mint, two fine distros, that really work out of the box.
101 • RE:8 DSL (by Anonymous on 2008-04-30 00:06:58 GMT from United States)
I too was a bit disapointed. It seems DSL took a step backwards.
There is less usable things on the live cd. I could not find anything to disable/enable the network card as it didn't seem to work out of the box. running the confif wizzard did not work and I could not see the settings. The windows manager needs a contrrol panel or something.
102 • Ubuntu/Xbuntu 8.04 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-30 00:23:41 GMT from United States)
I spent quite a bit of time with this over the weekend and if you have a 1ghz processor or better (with 512mb memory) you will be happy.
There was no Intel i810/soundpro bug in this version YAY.
I acually saw some 3d on a Dell 2200 with the live CD. WOW.
The install is very tedious and does not have many setting options. It leaves blank windows up for way too long (no progress bar). Maybe too many processes still running during the install?
Ubuntu black screened on a old PIII Dell laptop, did not recogize the netcard and video on the docking station. Xbuntu worked only when I set it for 800x600 and reran the networking wizard.
I tried a install on the same laptop and after a hour sitting on the partioning step I gave up. There was a 5gb unused area on the drive.
Don't bother with even xbuntu on a PIII less than 1ghz. Wait for another winows manager (Fluxbuntu?).
103 • big update of the distro (by s-y-s on 2008-04-30 00:57:47 GMT from France)
s-y-s 0.22
Whilst I continuously updated the distro for new versions of the most used programs, in the last time I prepared and I'm verg glad today I can anounce a proper new release, 0.22. Almost all programs were updated, all fundamental progs (like kernel, glibc, glib2 , gtk2, gtkmm etc etc) were newly compiled and adapted. The kernel is 2.6.25, of OpenOffice I put 3.0-beta and of Gimp 2.5 because they are good stable. And anything else whats interesting, like pulseaudio, all kinds of video player, mesa 7.0.3 , compiz-fusion and latest open drivers actualized, flashplayers, also things like googleeart etc etc etc. Also the administrative tools inclusive the instalation became more easy, inclusive now is well established the schema and the manner of the continuous updating and keeping actualized the distro using the tools what it offers for this. I hope that the readers like sys too and use it. Currently the mirrors are syncing the .iso, but I hope that next night or tomorrow this is ready and can be downloaded by the users :) The distro is coming as a DVD image of appr. 4.4 GB , uncompacted 17 GB ; the instalation is most easy possible (full-automatical) in order to make it most easy to change from W$ to Linux. More details and a mirror list here: http://linux.softpedia.com/get/System/Operating-Systems/Linux-Distributions/SYS-34168.shtml
104 • Re: 83 & Landor@97 (by dubigrasu on 2008-04-30 05:23:55 GMT from Romania)
Ok. Thanks for the link and info. I was thinking about buying one of theese Eee 900, but I guess I'l wait until they have a real hard disk ( I've read somewhere about this possibility.The relative short life span of their flash doesn't sound too atractive to me. As for an external harddisk...what's the point?
Thank you again...
Landor wrote: "...one more reason why a yearly release cycle should be adopted by most, if not all distros."
I really like Debian' policy: Release when is ready.But even in their case, after intensive testing, bugs still show up, so no wonder that in a six moths release cycle bugs are overwhelming. You install a distro, customize it for your taste, get rid of the bugs, install the apps you need and when at last it seems stable and you can work with it, the next release is ready with a new set of bugs and problems.
I still use Mandriva 2007.0. Is stable now, something I can work with. The 2008.1 release is nice but using it, is still an adventure.
I think that indeed, a one year release cycle would be more appropiate.
But I don't think will see that in many cases. Someone brought that subject up on Mandriva forum for example and the answer was that a one year release cycle is a bad ideea.
I guess they have their reasons...
105 • Ubuntu sudo vs root (by verndog on 2008-04-30 05:31:55 GMT from United States)
I have read several discussions regarding ubuntu and the use of sudo. There were several complaints about this. What is all the flap about? I only log in using a user account, and only sudo when necessary. Can someone explain why all the negative about sudo. Thanks.
106 • Re: 103 • big update of the distro (by Ariszló on 2008-04-30 06:06:41 GMT from Hungary)
s-y-s wrote: ...the instalation is most easy possible (full-automatical)...
Does that mean it will it wipe out my hard disk? Or can it co-exist with my other Linux distributions?
107 • @ texasmike (by arno911 on 2008-04-30 10:03:17 GMT from Germany)
i feel your pain, its not the first time a mod is acting up. im pissed that one person alone can be able to turn your otherwise good experience with the distro and the community into a nightmare. you are very kind not to mention his name. (though this makes it impossible to clear things up on the other hand...)
I feel sorry to see you leaving.
man, my day is ruined.
may you have a good one.
b.r.
arno911
108 • @ verndog (by arno911 on 2008-04-30 10:09:55 GMT from Germany)
http://sidux.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-2663-highlight-sudo.html can answer your question
b.r.
arno911
109 • Qu 76 OLPC misc (by dbrion on 2008-04-30 11:36:56 GMT from France)
Hi
Your "text is written on an OLPC-laptop using sidux (debian-sid) with the kernel and modules from OLPC-projekt and KDE "
* How did you find an OLPC in Germany? (it is meant for rd world children, and it could be bought in Northern America, two at a time to give one to a 3W child).
* Is there any litterature linked with Sid port (or any other LX) to OLPC?
I was very impressed that its keyboard be water (and likely mud and coffee) tight: the same specs can be found on *5-*40 times more expensive PCs (who are used outside for very basic tasks, entering some figures, typing a text)...
(I agree that modern softwares are too RAM greedy, but it is a vicious circle: someone making RAM optimised softs commits an economical crime against RAM manufacturers, does not understand the way the world evolves and is slower than someone just aligning code (practice I advise to my colleagues)....
Therefore, W$ XP trying to enter the OLPC world can give some space for newer softs, interesting even if they are not that well written)
110 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-04-30 13:00:52 GMT from Canada)
lets address the problem of these facist moderators
a moderator is exactly that - you moderate the forums , you are not a developer, you are not more important than the users and finally , you SERVE the community - not the other way round . Just like government and police - you SERVE . Dont let the power go to your heads .
Distros nearly ruined by power crazed moderators that will do anything to hold on to their standing ( mods generally have too much spare time and probably have insufficient lives)
Linux mint - problem solved due to clem retiring them .
pclos - problem nearly solved due to mod retiring himself ( plenty of wannabees just itching to take that spot tho)
klikit linux - bulling moderators that cant stand anyone who might contribute more than them.
111 • DeniZen #96 (by RC on 2008-04-30 15:35:34 GMT from United States)
"Anyone who says Ubuntu is not Noob friendly (and therefore doing real GOOD toward the notion of spreading the gospel) surely must simply have a personal agenda, or some difficulties in accepting basics!"
LOL...you guys are such a hoot! I sincerely hope that Canonical is more capable of seeing positive criticism and making changes than you and David are.
I would suggest that you try PCLinuxOS, Mepis 7 and Mint before you talk about "the easiest, most hand-holding, coddling distribution I have ever seen " I have used all three for over a year and never had to resort to the CLI one time. Never had to do anything but answer a few questions with them as a general rule. Are you really under the impression that the bulk of computer users are going to be OK with spending hours...or days...researching how to get their WiFi, printer or scanner up and running?
The only agenda that I have is having a distro that just installs and works...period. And as far as "difficulties in accepting basics", I have no idea what that means. Do you mean that I have to accept the fact that using Linux requires researching and using the CLI? Sorry....completely incorrect if you don't use Ubuntu. If you are implying that I am some sort of idiot...well...I hate to disappoint you, but I have a rather high IQ, owned my own computer sales and repair business for years and now do software project management for a government agency. I am quite capable of researching and learning the CLI...but why would I want to do that when other distros don't force me to.
It seems to me that you two have the agenda. I am sorry guys, but you are mistaken in your worship....Ubuntu is simply not the best distro on the planet for everyone. It may be for you, but please don't treat people like idtiots for not agreeing with you. Isn't that what the whole FLOSS thing is about? Freedom of choice?
112 • @111 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-30 16:09:42 GMT from Canada)
way to go DeniZen!
One more thing, you forgot to include Mandriva in your short list of user friendly distros.
113 • @ arno911 (by texasmike on 2008-04-30 17:28:26 GMT from United States)
Arno! How are you, my friend? Thank you for the very kind words, but I'm keepin it in the family. Still on Debian. The Debian mods are good folks. They don't breathe down your necks, etc... In post #110, they hit it on the head regarding the moderators for PCLOS. They (are/were) the worst. I blew them off a couple of years ago. When one has been in this business as long as I have, we expect a little bit better from forum moderators. I do, anyway. No one is perfect, but some just don't belong. Period.
114 • #112 (by RC on 2008-04-30 18:23:10 GMT from United States)
Actually I was addressing that message to DeniZen. You are correct though....Mandriva...which is the base for PCLinuxOS...is a great distro and very user friendly. My experience has just always been that whatever Tex and the guys do to it make PCLinuxOS always work better for me. My original post was after two attempts Mandriva 2008.1 still refused to boot after installation. Great distro...just not for my hardware.
115 • great little utility (by Guy on 2008-04-30 22:01:11 GMT from United States)
I think every distro should have something like "openasroot_kmenu" IMHO
116 • @111 (by DeniZen on 2008-04-30 22:29:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
Quote: "I would suggest that you try PCLinuxOS, Mepis 7 and Mint before you talk about "the easiest, most hand-holding, coddling distribution I have ever seen"
1. never said "ever seen"!
2. yep tried 'em all. they good. Not all necesarily my cup of tea tho'. PCLINUXOS happens to 'look bad' on my rig - blurry fonts - and it freezes etc. I know its cool on others, so no issue - just not for me thanks. Milage may (will) vary.
Debian - and Arch - thats my cup of tea TBH (rather than Ubuntu) but I was talking about good distros's for *newbies*. (I'm not one - I'm an ex-Unix Sysadmin, now look after an Unix Sysadmin team).
Ubunbu *is* a great Distro for Noobs (Heck, its a fine Distro - full stop - if you like!) but... someone (always!) just *has* to make an argument out of that..! I dont get why?!
Fact! ( :-) ) - Ubuntu generally 'just works' and is usable first go- for many. - what more does a distro need to be to get an unequivocal thumbs up by people who _claim_ to want more people moving to Linux??! (OK, after first exprience the 'converts' may move to whatever flavour they may well want - once 'hooked').
I say - stop damn bikering over ephemeral, pedantic, bigoted 'Distro point scoring nonsence'.
Linux is Linux, at the end of the day, However, preference of 'flavour' depends on many factors, and is down to personal choice.
Ubuntu *IS* a good recommendation for Noobs! (as is Mint, PCLOS - others)
But to blanket deny Ubuntu's generally easyof initial experience (again) I suggest is just idiotic ...
But people still will.
IMO Solaris is King - actually.
Debian comes close. Argue if you like, but do so with a bit of wit and with a bit of open-mindedness per-lease!
117 • canonical"s adgenda (by hab on 2008-04-30 22:48:47 GMT from Canada)
Caution, reading this article. http://www.interopnews.com/news/is-ubuntu-selling-out-or-growing-up.htm, may cause one not to feel so warm and fuzzy about 'buntu's raison d'etre!
cheers
118 • 117 (by werner on 2008-04-30 23:07:12 GMT from France)
@117: the link dont work. My opinion about K-ubuntu whose 8.04 i tested: it works, but it's very poor, there isnt coming almost nothing. Whom want this, however, then may use better SLAX
119 • re#117 link (by hab on 2008-04-30 23:17:45 GMT from Canada)
sorry, my aging eyesight missed the final l in the link. try this http://www.interopnews.com/news/is-ubuntu-selling-out-or-growing-up.html
cheers
120 • open source (by werner, guiana-caiena on 2008-05-01 00:07:33 GMT from France)
I agree with that we should be sceptical and watch about parasitism or even monopolization of open-source.
On the other side, I think it's no problem, when a open-source firma gains money from comercialization of Linux to FIRMAS and comerce (which themselve gain money for their work) for on the other side give the distro free for privat persons.
Thus, the simple fact that Ubuntu is connected with Canonical what's comercializing Linux, isn't still a problem. What's important is that the basical distro everybody gets gratis. Only extra things outside the GPL, and almost exclusively used by comerce, is billed.
What not should happen, however, is that the today free tomorrow is billed to everybody, locking in.
An excelent and corect model is Slackware. In principle it's billed -- but exactly the same distro, without any distinction, additions etc, can download for free whom want. And this distro still is existing since long time without almost nothing changing, so that it also would be extremly neurotical to afray here a trap or a lock-in tomorrow ...
Thus, I think we dont need to be afraid about the intention of Ubuntu. The man simply need to make a comerce on one side, but on the other side spend a part of the gains for 'filantropic' reasons of the distro. Anyway, that's not hindering the general use and forwards-development of Linux
Much worser are these ones, which, in open-source, don't only parasite, but do this in a manner hindering the development of Linux; the fast exhibition, test, discusion of news; or trying to monopolize it or the general opinion in one or other manner, about these we should stay awaken.
121 • Flash memory lifecycle and eeeeeepc (by Ultra on 2008-05-01 00:08:58 GMT from Canada)
Depending on the type of flash memory you may get a typical guaranteed lifecycle of either 10,000 or 100,000 erase cycles per memory block. Many devices will last longer than that. Older flash drives with smaller amounts of memory would wear out fairly quickly because there was less available bytes to spread the wear (erase cycles) over. But now with capacities in the GB range, this is no longer the issue. Get out your spreadsheet and plug in some numbers and you'll see what I mean.
122 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-05-01 06:43:17 GMT from United States)
I agree with that we should be sceptical and watch about parasitism or even monopolization of open-source.
How is that possible when you have the source code and a free license? With source anyone and everyone can fork. The problem comes from the people that forget it really is about freedom and not about pushing an agenda on someone that may or may not agree with you.
123 • 109 by dbrion (by Tillerman on 2008-05-01 07:23:16 GMT from Germany)
hi ,
got the laptop from ebay ,sadly paying the same price as with G1G1 ,but not helping another child .
There are howtos for installing ubuntu and linked to that installing debian sid to the
OLPC .You will find them easily in google searching for installing debian on OLPC .
I'd give it a try if you have the chance .
Have fun Timo
124 • Let me say Good by to "cough Open Solaris cough" Sun did not keep its ip secret (by Distrowatch Reader on 2008-05-01 07:27:29 GMT from United States)
Sun supported SCO to hurt RedHat.
The Novell vs SCO trial shows all that Sun Knew is had NO right to open source Novells UNIX property.
Sun had a duty to keep the unix source confiderial.
It released the source code it had with SCO's approval.
Like you going on a business trip and finding the janitor sold your business , to a compeditor no less, then sued you for the title to your business.
Good by Sun.
125 • @124 (by Iguana on 2008-05-01 12:11:29 GMT from United States)
I think you mean Good Bye Sun, or maybe not. Hell nobody knows whats going on here.
126 • PC LinuxOS Digital Photography Edition (by Regine on 2008-05-01 12:11:48 GMT from France)
Hallo
there is something new and Big Bang
a Linux with all for serious Digital Photography
http://www.dfpe.pclinuxos.nl/
enjoy
127 • people which want to control us (by werner on 2008-05-01 14:33:02 GMT from France)
The danger for our free decisions and use is not coming only from the openness or not-openness of the code. So, in the last time, firmas call them code 'open' and publish it even -- however, keep copy/patent rights, so that nobody can use it as open.
It's not only the openness of the code, what limits our rights of free selection. There are all kinds of control, what we should observe and reject. For example -- like in the press (journals, television), where we get already pre-selected what we should know and what not and the polemics in what manner we get serviced informations -- auto-nominated 'owners' of publication means (like positive or negative discrimination of certain parts of tghe open-source projects or distros). Or self-nominated 'police' like the FSF.
128 • easYs (by capricornus on 2008-05-01 15:42:08 GMT from Belgium)
I hardly dare to comment anymore after my rather poor experience with nonux[e]. It sais that is could be the ideal partner in Small Office or Home Office, just I have upstairs, but please spare me outdated "spul" ("stuff") like Notnux.
A few days later, easYs announces itself as the perfect distro. There I go again, trying out if anything is better than Mepis, Mint or Granular.
What a dissapointment - again -.Resolutions are, just as with Notnix, at minimum, while I think that wide screen 1440x900 is not that futuristic in a Small Office or Home Office, or is it? And installing on existing but free partitions: well, no way, no trick, after an half hour, I got completely stuck. Or how easYs got diffiCult.
129 • Gobuntu vs gNewSense (by Free.Hephaestus@gmail.com at 2008-05-01 15:46:41 GMT from United States)
What is the difference between Gobuntu & gNewSense?
One of them more 'free' or any less buggy than the other?
130 • @ 129 (by Anonymous on 2008-05-01 16:08:18 GMT from Canada)
They are two different distros.
However they have something in common: they are not as good as some other distros
131 • That cheap laptop (by Fractalguy on 2008-05-01 21:33:20 GMT from United States)
Someone asked about the cheap lappy that was supposed to be out about 6 months ago. A friend of mine decided to buy one. Then after the delays and my pointing out it might be too risky he canceled the order. I asked him what it was... reply:
http://medisoncelebrity.com/ $150
Now he is thinking ASUS.
132 • Gobuntu vs gNewSense REAL difference (by John Grubb on 2008-05-01 23:35:15 GMT from United States)
"They are two different distros.
However they have something in common: they are not as good as some other distros"
The above statement answers nothing. Ref# 129 asked what is the difference. What a load of nonsense that statement of your is.
Free.Hephaestus I would also like to know the _real_ difference.
133 • Slack, baby! (by Spoiled on 2008-05-02 00:24:07 GMT from United States)
Going back to Slack when 12.1 hits final.
I feel the power of the source sucked away from me everytime I boot into Ubuntu. Actually, it may be the IQ points slipping into the ether.
Gotta get back to the real deal.
I feel so dirty.
(end rant)
134 • Slackware (by werner on 2008-05-02 01:09:14 GMT from France)
There is no question: Slackware is the only 1st class Linux ! Slackware, to my opinion, is also suficiently easy installable and administrable for beginners, but in this point it could be a little improved (puting default run-level to grafics, and puting in an ADSL config or searching -script)
135 • @134 (by texasmike on 2008-05-02 01:26:05 GMT from United States)
Slack easy for beginners? Wise up, pal.
136 • beginners (by Silent Bob on 2008-05-02 02:29:37 GMT from United States)
@135
Depends on the willingness of the newcomer to read something above and beyond the cereal boxes some are accustomed to.
=)
The installer isn't particularly intuitive, but god forbid someone actually follows directions which are clearly written and easily accessible.
Even worse... What would happen if knowledge were actually gained?
That'd really suck, huh?
Before I get a smart response. Yes, I realise some don't care to learn anything (ever) and that's to be expected. But all the FUD about newcomers being incapable of cutting their teeth on slackware is complete nonsense rising to the level of insult.
137 • Slackoff (by Debby Slack on 2008-05-02 02:32:41 GMT from United States)
Slackware is the oldest distro, but I surely wouldn't label it for beginners. That's one of the faults reviewers usually list.
There's one thing Slack does, it makes you learn Linux. I like Slackware, but I also like debian, Mandriva, ubuntu, suse, Red Hat. I like linux in what ever flavor. Maybe the order would be, debian, Slackware, Arch, Mandriva, ubuntu.
138 • re#137 oldest distro (by hab on 2008-05-02 03:54:34 GMT from Canada)
I believe your statement about slackware being the first distro is not correct. There were earlier 2 floppy distros. See here for more info http://www.linux-knowledge-portal.org/en/content.php?&content/linuxology/rbhistory2.html
Slackware was the first distro i installed succesfully in oct/95 and i do have to agree with your statement that it teaches one more about linux than others.
cheers
139 • re: 133 (by Dopher on 2008-05-02 07:59:56 GMT from Belgium)
"133 • Slack, baby! (by Spoiled on 2008-05-02 00:24:07 GMT from United States)
Going back to Slack when 12.1 hits final."
This is the distrohopper excuse. ;) If you really wanna use it, you can install slackware right now. install 12.0, or current, and update when 12.1 comes out. Or use your 12.0 installation experience to have an easy install when 12.1 comes out.
Anyway, slackware 12.1 should be a nice release. Especially for laptop users, or those who care about privacy, since it now fully supports luks and lvm during installation. (you have to do it manually though, using eric hammeleers crypto and lvm readme files on the disk, but it's an easy to follow document).
140 • RE 123 : Thanks (by dbrion on 2008-05-02 08:38:10 GMT from France)
One is always tempted by less straightforward solutions ....
Have a nice day.
141 • RE 106 THE BIG distro... How to make it bigger.... (by dbrion on 2008-05-02 08:53:42 GMT from France)
"106 • Re: 103 • big update of the distro (by Ariszló on 2008-04-30 06:06:41 GMT from Hungary)
s-y-s wrote: ...the instalation is most easy possible (full-automatical)...
Does that mean it will it wipe out my hard disk? Or can it co-exist with my other Linux distributions?"
The other linux (the corrupted branch of GNU linux, not His Majesty's "distro") are hidden ... and a beginner will be very lucky "playing with the loader configuration.....
OTOH, should I suggest His Majesty to have 10 * x versions,
--- one with KDE, one with ICEWM.... one with evince (that makes 10),
---- one for Muslims, one for Buddhists, one for Christians (that makes x):
with a synonym dictionary, and some automation, it would be easy to have >= 30 announces here, each time a part of His "distr" is compiled...
and linking the download of all these versions could respect
freedom of choice (among desktops environments)
freedom of religion inside the same family
and fill up ones disk with the [1rst ... 8th] wonder of the Free World...
"Il n'y a pas de question à laquelle l'absence de réponse n'apporte de solution" Balladur, Le Bébête Show, 1994.
142 • @ silent bob (by texasmike on 2008-05-02 09:43:44 GMT from United States)
Well.. you have convinced me.. I am in the twilight zone.
143 • No subject (by arno911 on 2008-05-02 12:21:00 GMT from Germany)
lol texasmike
at least you've seen both the light and the darkness :)
debian & slackware, all the others are more or less well done "copies" of them, covering different needs, goals, kind of user, package management. be it (on the commercial side) the big redhat or suse or mandriva, be it ubuntu..., or on the "free" (?) side community or single person projects as sidux, arch, Puppy, Absolute, NimbleX, grml...
after all its the Linux kernel with its possibilities and the GNU, just in different flavours. it's all about choice!
144 • Slackware (by pfpearson on 2008-05-02 14:09:37 GMT from United States)
Caveat: I haven't used Slackware in several years.
1. Slackware is the oldest *surviving* Linux. Or, in other words, of all the current Linux distributions, Slackware is the oldest. It was originally derived from another, now long dead, distribution.
2. I found the slackware installer quite newbie-friendly, with the possible exception of setting up partitions. Overall, I found Slackware to be a wonderful, stable distribution.
3. That said, it did require maintenance. I like learning, and did learn a lot using Slackware. However, the lack of dependency checking (which has supposedly been added with slapt-get or gslapt) meant I had to spend more time that I was willing.
4. I'm now a happy XUbuntu user, with a great fondness for Slackware and its "keep is simple" philosophy. I'd consider it for a production environment which is only infrequently updated.
145 • RE 71 & 121 Flash eeeeeeeeeePC cycles. (by dbrion on 2008-05-02 14:22:51 GMT from France)
Hi Dubigrassu : I tried to have an answer (this is rather an appealing PC).
"Depending on the type of flash memory you may get a typical guaranteed lifecycle of either 10,000 or 100,000 erase cycles per memory block. Many devices will last longer than that."
For e{e+}PC flash, it seems 300,000 writeees per memory block (newer technology : I asked my boss's PC buyer for advice, he was terrified by the Gentoo -in their March newsletter- use of USB keys as swap files (at the maximum possible writing cycles, seems : they make a worst case analysis as a disclaimer), but this worst case analysis lead to unusual long times).
"Older flash drives with smaller amounts of memory would wear out fairly quickly because there was less available bytes to spread the wear (erase cycles) over. But now with capacities in the GB range, this is no longer the issue."
That surprises me : it is/would be right if the spreading works on the whole capacity (that would mean, messeems, freeing and rewriting an already written block , which is paradoxal, and would make write times longer...
I suppose they spread the wear
among free blocks only!).
If my interpretation is/were OK, that would make the _amount of free blocks_ relevant, and _not_ the _total_ capacity..
.==> With an almost full flash disk (and only in this case), the issue would remain if my interpretation is correct... and vanish with newer and newer technologies....
For gamers, this would seldom/?never? be an issue (games are often in RAM only....)
IF the amount of free blocks is relevant and one remains a long time with almost full disks (having 2/3 OSes, say) - I hope I am wrong-, the idea of @28 : using external classical HDs at home, (for backups, say : there is main electrical power) and using the internal flash drive as a text-processor storage media ( the text is written where no main supply is avalaible but the filling is limited by typing speed) would keep some space on the internal disk, and increase the fiability of the whole way of working...
146 • xfce distros (by Anonymous on 2008-05-02 18:38:07 GMT from United States)
I just installed XFCE on Mandriva. Now Mandriva is a great distro, as is Ubuntu, but why do they mess with the defaults on XFCE? What is wrong with leaving the panel centered at the bottom of the screen? XFCE is not GNOME.
Trying to make XFCE look like GNOME is ugly.
147 • Flash eeeeeeeeeePC cycles plus short review. (by Fractalguy on 2008-05-02 20:10:27 GMT from United States)
I bought the eee 701 (2GB) from Amazon with delivery on 25 Jan. That is 3 months and $301 ago. I've been using it nearly non-stop now that my tower is so nearly dead. I fired it when Ubuntu 8.04 released so I could give my 80 yr old friend a copy. He ended up installing via Wubi all by himself! One happy newbie there :).
My every day eee set up is this: acer 17in LCD monitor set to 1024x768; USB Kensington keyboard, old LED mouse and 4G thumb for backups; external speakers and fast cable connection. The eeePC is tucked away, like a docked "tower", out of the way.
I do lots of editing, reading, downloading PDFs, articles, youtubes, and images. It amounts to nearly 1000 items so far that made it to "backup". I consider this moderately heave use. Also I use gzip to keep long term space use down. One might not be mentally able to work the eee harder from its native keyboard and screen. :)
Since, I assume, Firefox and other cache is in RAM only, I figure there is not a Flash hit from temporary activity. Note: df shows my 2GB flash drive is usually running at 95% and my 4GB thumb is at 97%. So this is working the thin edge, so to speak. And so far, no flash errors. :) From what I've read, there should not be any problems.
Since the eeePC is meant to be a knock around for travel, meetings, trips to the park or beach, I don't think it likely anyone would have a flash drive issue, even in five years of use. If you are trying to replace the tower, I'd suggest the 4GB flash + 1GB RAM model. It would be more responsive under load.
I highly recommend the eeePC and would love to try the 900. While distro hopping may be slowed here at Dead Towers, there are two desktops on the eeePC. Hidden under the nub friendly iceWM (Fisher Price like) there is KDE. I have enabled it for use as my primary environment, with 4 workspaces. I also installed a few more apps like kompozer from the limited (original plus 1) repositories. I guess I could go into Debian and get more, but I'll not bother given the limited Flash storage.
Biggest complaint? Needs better (later) Firefox! The new 3.0 with improved memory leak properties would be very nice, can hardly wait. I have to reset Firefox about every other day. I usually kill it from a konsole so it can restore all windows and tabs after clearing memory of leaks. This usually frees up about 50% of the 512MB RAM with the same tabs restored. So there is no doubt about the leaks here (version 2.0.0.9).
Biggest pluses: I love the quiet and near zero heat from this set up, and still very portable when that is desired.
- Fract Al Guy
148 • No subject (by werner on 2008-05-02 20:43:19 GMT from France)
ref 103,106,141:
Normally isn't deleted any other partition / installation. The installer searchs automatically 18 GB space - either unpartitioned one, or redimensioning half-full partitions. When it dont find this space then it stops informing that there is no space. As an exception, it deletes (in fact nor deletes but make shorter at the end) such W$ partitions which are spoiled and cannot be mounted after some attempts of reparation (like ntfsfix etc). After changing this politics several times, I let this now in this manner, because in 99,9% of this cases nobody could recover them W$ partition (or at least the user would not send it to a special firma and pay for that), and because this situation is 80% of the cases that W$ users are tired of them again-messed-up system and then the Linux installation should be successful anyway. In earlier versions were deleted also spoiled/unmountable Linux partitions if otherwhise cannot be obtained space, however, i removed that because already-Linux-using-persons don't need so urgently be converted to Linux. Instead of this, then the installer goes into the rescue system , with instructions how the person manually make space / copy+save files / delete partitions etc.
I repeat that the distro is tuned to be most easy for beginners. Whom already know about Linux, can go first in the rescue system and use cfdisk etc. for delete partitions / make space exactly as they want, and then run the installation (what they can start within the rescue system by typing ./init).
The distro is going very good, about 1700 downloads now, and just today I get the 5th mirror at an university, ftp.uni-siegen.de/sys-linux (upload .iso ready only tomorow)
149 • No subject (by werner on 2008-05-02 20:56:52 GMT from France)
Execpcionally , sys's private troll (each distro should have one ...) is correct, that in the boot loader is mentioned only SYS. To start any other distro/installation, it's necessary to copy its 4-6 lines from its /etc/lilo.conf into the same file within sys and then type lilo . Although many distros do the same, there are some which make it better and write that into /etc/lilo.conf automatically, and I really could do this too. (At least this isn't so important for convert quickly W$-victims to an immediately-working Linux-system, and the most already-Linux-users get through to do this manually. )
150 • RE: 146 • xfce distros (by Anonymous on 2008-05-02 21:39:05 GMT from Romania)
> Now Mandriva is a great distro, as is Ubuntu, but why do they mess with
> the defaults on XFCE? What is wrong with leaving the panel centered at
> the bottom of the screen? XFCE is not GNOME.
That was THE OLD default. Try to look at XFCE in Slackware 12.1: it's a single-panel, KDE-like layout!!!
So you should also say: XFCE is not KDE,
> Trying to make XFCE look like GNOME is ugly.
And trying to make XFCE look like KDE is... how? (Once again, try Slackware 12.1.)
How about the distros who male GNOME look like KDE, with a single panel? (openSUSE, Mint, etc.)
151 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-05-02 22:14:52 GMT from United States)
> How about the distros who male GNOME look like KDE, with a single panel? (openSUSE, Mint, etc.)
They're atrocious too.
152 • re Ultra@ 121 & dbrion@145 & fractalguy@147 (by dubigrasu on 2008-05-03 05:34:07 GMT from Romania)
Ultra & dbrion: That's what I was afraid of. How long the flash will last with say..95% of its capacity occupied, even with this new technology. And you're right dbrion,"this is rather an appealing PC". I'm talking about its size,quietness and heat emission.
Thanks for the great info and your effort...
fractalguy: It was useful to see a "short review" from someone who used the Eee Pc " moderately heavy" But, 3 months isn't too soon to form an opinion (about its flash, I mean) ? You did changed my mind however, I'm thinking again about buying one.Arghhh...
153 • RE 149 (by dbrion on 2008-05-03 09:15:26 GMT from France)
"To start any other distro/installation, it's necessary to copy its 4-6 lines from its /etc/lilo.conf into the same file within sys and then type lilo ."
With copy and paste, which converts tabs into white spaces?
As usual, a disastrous answer....
This goes on making this "distr" fully irrelevant for beginners, even if they take some time installing a serious GNU/linux and remember its doc...
and makes the ewig claims from a parasitic "distr" copier / compresser unconsistent..
154 • Mandriva xfce link (by dubigrasu on 2008-05-03 14:52:53 GMT from Romania)
The link from Distrowatch frontpage doesn't work.
This one does: http://download.tuxfamily.org/mcc/xfcelive/i586/int/mandriva-linux-one-2008-spring-xfce4-int-cdrom-i586.iso
155 • RE 152(dubigrasu) and 147(fractalguy) e{e+}PC (by dbrion on 2008-05-03 15:01:30 GMT from France)
Thanks for a review on "moderately heavy" use of eePC : this makes a somewhat intensive use, in fact (the figures I give are for continuous writing, which never occurs and are very worst case ones). There is a point which is overlooked in mechanical HDs on laptops : as they may be subjecteed to any sorts of bad treatments when the laptop is carried, they may suffer as much as flash drives... unless ones laptops stays home.
OTOH, the new e{e+}PC seems meant to be carried outdoors : there is a GPS; Perhaps they could add a compass (when I meet Muslims colleagues, and when the wheather is very cloudy, they are happy to know where the North is) and, if it is carried outside, the keyboard should be water/mud tight (the fact that one can use USB keyboards can fix it, but not fully).
Have a nice week(end)
156 • Lack of 64-bit (by Duhnonymous on 2008-05-03 20:30:04 GMT from United States)
I'm really astonished by the lack of 64-bit. Out of the hundreds of distros on this site, only 71 are 64-bit. Even the top distros like Debian, Ubuntu, OpenSuse, Mandriva, and Fedora seem to treat 64-bit like it's an afterthought.
Linux makes the best use of 64-bit of any OS I've seen, yet so little effort is made by developers and maintainers to contribute to this success. It makes people who use the hardware feel abandoned, and those who are considering upgrading think twice about using Linux.
If you are a developer, it's way past time to join the rest of us in the 21st century and help develop 64-bit apps.
157 • Re: 156 • Lack of 64-bit (by Anon. on 2008-05-04 01:36:09 GMT from Norway)
Duhnonymous wrote: "If you are a developer, it's way past time to join the rest of us in the 21st century and help develop 64-bit apps."
Well said - I couldn't agree more.
Even after Sun has begun offering 64-bit Java, many distros are still leaving it to the user to figure it out, i.e. for example how to make it work with . Not to mention how to keep it *stable*. Instead, many developers/distros busy themselves with rebranding browsers - turning them into Iceweasels, BonEchos and what not - and more often than not crippling them in the process. Debian and derivatives is typical: They boast about offering 25 000 packages, but do not offer 64-bit Opera and don't offer a *simple* way to install Adobe ('acroread') or Google Earth. It's the mindset again.
158 • Re: 157 (by Anon. on 2008-05-04 01:44:38 GMT from Norway)
"...how to make it work with a browser." I placed 'browsername' between larger than/smaller than signs, and the word disappeared. The fontsize in the subsequent text also got smaller. One might say this kind of demonstrates my general point... :)
159 • 153 (by wwll on 2008-05-04 02:38:39 GMT from France)
@153
Almost everybody know that, for boot another partition, one only need copy/past, from /etc/lilo.conf of that system into the running system, like f.ex: image = /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.25-i486-1sys ; label = "..." ; append="4 root=/dev/sda4 ro devfs=nomount acpi=ht" and then run lilo.
The most distros' installer dont do this automatically. Also, my distro is mainly for bring people with a Windows installation to Linux; whom has already Linux don't need this.
That completely m-a-d post @153 is again a witness that this forum is becoming playground for trolls and cannot more kept serious.
160 • No subject (by wwll on 2008-05-04 02:44:47 GMT from France)
Obs: when the second system/partition to boot, beside of the running/primary one, isnt a linux but a w$ partition, then one would have to insert in lilo.conf: other=/dev/sdaX ; label=windows
But as said, my distro is especially for persons which didnt had installed another Linux, but w$, however which should use the just installed linux, so they dont need that all.
161 • one good reason (by hab on 2008-05-04 05:08:45 GMT from Canada)
If anyone wants a single good reason to use linux and not that other (crappy) os than read this http://www.infiltrated.net/?p=91 and reflect on the implications!
I'm sure glad that linux and other free and open source alternatives exist.
You can stick yer winders ecosystem where the sun don't shine fer all i care!!
cheers
162 • RE 159 : lilo's issues and unthought claims.... (by dbrion on 2008-05-04 13:52:38 GMT from France)
"Almost everybody know that, for boot another partition, one only need copy/past,"
NO :
as copy and paste may (depends on one's editor [config]) transform tabs into white spaces,
and
as tabs are relevant for lilo, this may lead to
.... a disaster, very difficult and leading to nervous breakdowns to fix....
What a nice beginner's friendly this parasitic "OS" is!
And what nice, well thought choices....
Is this "distro" meant for *any* user?
163 • No subject (by wwll on 2008-05-04 14:55:28 GMT from France)
ref 162: I think it's no longer necessary to respond to , or to give attention to , the complete stupidness what that man is trolling around here, and when the owner permits such posts then this will have only the result that people don't keep longer serious his site.
What concerns to the S-Y-S distro, it's not listed in this dirtsowatch site, although plenty inferior ones are (what f.ex. have no own package compilation/adaption/packaging like S-Y-S but copy packages from other distros) . The man blocked even the name here so that I have to write the name in that manner. However, this practics at the end will fall against distrowatch and its seriousity. Other, serious sites reference about the distro. My distro is going very good, it has an excellent update politics, there are very few reclamations by users so that I can treat/help them meself by e-mail, I have mirrors at 5 universities and even more proposes, persons what tried the distro wrote good about it. Whom want, simply try it.
ftp://ftp.uni-siegen.de/pub/sys-linux
164 • No subject (by wwll on 2008-05-04 15:02:39 GMT from France)
@159,160: Almost everybody here know, how the lines what I quoted here, can be inserted in files like /etc/lilo.conf. And when that man has the problem that his editor change spaces to tabs, then the man simply nor know to use his editor ... what has this to do with my s-y-s distro and with its quality ???
165 • RE 156 : Wait until the 21th century PR/marketing offers 2560 bits.... (by dbrion on 2008-05-04 15:03:34 GMT from France)
"It makes people who use the hardware feel abandoned, and those who are considering upgrading think twice about using Linux."
People generally use software....
Are 64 bit text editors eight times more useful than ... eight-bits ones (in the late 1980s, there were nice 8 bits text processors... and I did not notice ~20 ~30 years old texts are eight times/ for times more stupid than to-day'"texts"). However, I agree that some figures were false (difficult to copy and tedious to verify!!!).
For some types of programming (with lots of copies before calling a function, which makes programs very reliable) 64 bits may be ... slower... than 32 bits.
For browsers, the number of bugs is so high that they should be ... debugged... before changing the number of bits.... and (cf 157,158) perhaps it would be hight time for the users to learn how to use it before making verbose conclusions...
If I am wrong, I am ready to wait ... till marketing and public relations decide every processor will be 2560 bits...
166 • No subject (by wwll on 2008-05-04 15:07:57 GMT from France)
@159,160: Almost everybody here know, how the lines what I quoted here, can be inserted in files like /etc/lilo.conf. And when that man has the problem that his editor change spaces to tabs, then the man simply nor know to use his editor ... what has this to do with my s-y-s distro and with its quality ???
167 • RE 163 What do you do in "dirtsowatch site" (by dbrion on 2008-05-04 15:15:36 GMT from France)
"And when that man has the problem that his editor change spaces to tabs, then the man simply nor know to use his editor ... what has this to do with my s-y-s distro and with its quality ???"
The link with
******* YOUR
"distro" is that beginners (by this, I mean sometimes people who are accustomed to an editor since 10 years, as most programming languages ignore the difference=> I mean almost anyone who does not edit makefiles, say!!!) do not have to know every function of their editor(or rather, the one that was shipped without letting them )choose!!!)
=> Making anything automatic, on wrong bases, can give a very bad quality "distr", like
****** YOURS!!!!
I can have some hints of the quality of
*******YOUR
support from tons of unthought pests...
BTW,
********** YOUR
"distr" is made up, at 99.999% of other people's work .
Is this hidden? (by removing the sources, say, as the original workers -not copier/touter- wished by GPLing it?)
Is this broken?
168 • Re: 165 - The perennial wait (by Anon. on 2008-05-04 15:56:02 GMT from Norway)
Dbrion wrote: "For browsers, the number of bugs is so high that they should be ... debugged... before changing the number of bits.... and (cf 157,158) perhaps it would be hight time for the users to learn how to use it before making verbose conclusions..."
Certainly, and a few are - by trial and error. Is this the best software choice for a forum today?
The important and sad fact is that Linux is still lagging behind in most every area. Not every user can be a developer, or even interested in the system innards, and even if they were, it would not change the overall situation. Of course, in order to use special apps one can always add the other OS in one way or another. Great :(
Meanwhile, the little Linux talent working to improve the user experience is scattered, doesn't communicate internally, and would not change their respective minds about one iota if they were. The user is thus left with 500 variations over the same derelict mindset. What must be done?
169 • No subject (by arno911 on 2008-05-04 16:47:28 GMT from Germany)
the only conclusion can be: Anon must take it in his hands
:)
170 • Re: 169 • No subject (by Anon. on 2008-05-04 18:13:24 GMT from Norway)
Obviously - the 501st variety would finally solve the problems :)
Here's an (constructive) idea: I am missing Linux versions of local apps, say a program dedicated to deal with Norwegian taxes and accounting. Approaching the owners/developers of the app leads nowhere; they're not interested in offering a Linux version. So, what if we, the Linux "community", could form local groups of Linux developers who would offer to port such local(ized) apps to Linux for free? Of course, this is happening all the time, but too seldom for specialized apps or apps with a relatively limited user base. Or so is my experience...
171 • No subject (by wwll on 2008-05-04 18:58:03 GMT from France)
I feel one of the problems is, that open-source, inclusive forums like this here, are places of interests, corruption, stupidness, not of objectivity, quality, definated objections.
My distro has its origin in a 'natural' development, because one time i kept actualized my server, not only compiling but (for avoid source-installed and package-installing chaos) packaging new/actualized programs, on the other hand copied my own system (from my hard disc) to neighbours and friends, and also observed how good beginners come clear with Linux and what for this needs to be improved. Thus it was only a small step to make also an install DVD, for catch this three reasons together. And this is going good, inicially in the neighbourship (because the installation and ADSL are automatical -- the two biggest problems on other distros), now also by downloads.
On the same time, I see plenty 'distros' of people which make their 'distro' since the beginning for trade -- even in the most cases without success. Even when informatic students or people like this, then often of low qualityt, but -- worser even -- not realizing the situation of the users (which to 90% are simple persons, so that Linux have to be usable by simple persons, nothing complicated). This people infiltrate on all places and substitutre them lacking quality by interests, 'politics', and stupidness. As one see, however, not with many success. Many of this kind of 'distros' have nothing own than the background picturs -- they nor compile own packages or make own install scripts.
Im not worry, I know that my distro is free of interests, exclusively oriented on the easy use but at the same time usibility also for advanced users (thus I compile the kernel, glibc and all programs within my distro itself so that all the develop tools working perfectly), and that it has also good quality; also the smallest reported error I correct imediately, and even the install DVD i keep good updated. So, I think to do the best what one can, and especially not substitute good quality by interests. You see that the low-quality 'interest' distros quickly die.
172 • @167 (by wwll on 2008-05-04 19:37:30 GMT from France)
Perhaps it's good to remember about a distro and a 'no-distro'.
Literally, a distro is any delivering of a system. But its better to verify what's an 'own' distro, different from others.
It's a characteristics of open-source (and in fact of everything, since children or going in scool) that we learn and use as base things by other people. Important however is, that we increase it by own things what have a minimum of own idea, decision and initiative.
Many people make 'distro' just remastering ubuntu, slax, arch or using live scripts like this, perhaps changing some picturs or moving the icons on another side of the desktop. Although here the creativity is zero, distrowatch is full of such distros.
Others at least join the scripts in another manner, make some own changes in them etc. This is already a bigger creativity, which needs also some knowledge like (at least) bash programming.
However, not more than perhaps 30 of the almost 1000 distros adapt, compile and package an essential part of their packages. All others take them over from other distros. For example, Kurumin, a big brazilean distro, take the kernel from kanotix and the most packages directly and unchanged from ubuntu [to be fair, however: kurumin at least increased plenty own kommander scripts], or easys take kernel and the most progs unchanged from Slackware. VideoLinux from PCOS. ALTLinux, in earlier versions, from Mandrake. Others like Goblin or Zenwalk dont recompile but repack trivially packages of other distros and put them name. All this distros are in distrowatch. I, for my distro, adapt, compile, pack all essential packages incl. kernel. It's just a question of time, because I'm only one person, that I didn't yet compiled/packed all packages; however, that is in progress, and until then, this packages what I use of other distros, at least I let in the original form instead of falsify the signature as it would be my packages.
Also, I don't use generic live-install scripts etc, nor half or quarter -changed ones by others. My install script I wrote from zero. Also it's an installer-backup system easy to use for backup, cloning, development.
Also Principles/Filosophy behind a Distro are part of its own creativity. And also the principles / filosofy / main caracteristics of my distro are good different than of the most distros. It's a little more raw and determined in installing most fast and determined a definitive Linux system. Nothing 100 times 'trying' a liveCD but continue with W$ installed. The installation has to be fast, simple, definitively (in the former versions, even deleting W$), the sistem is huge but not a zero-/minimal-distro where imediately you would have to download more progs.
Thus, all open-source to X% is based on work by other people, but on my distro X certainly is much smaller than on many other 'distro's.
173 • Puppy 4.0 (by VernDog on 2008-05-05 04:25:20 GMT from United States)
Woof woof! Great job! This newest dog is the best. Lots of added features. I like the ability to write configurations back to my DVD/RW disk. Beautiful desktop look as a bonus.
174 • RE 163, 164, 166 (and tons of others) inconsistencies (by dbrion on 2008-05-05 06:24:52 GMT from France)
" I think it's no longer necessary to respond to , or to give attention to , the complete stupidness what that man is trolling around here"
is inconsistent with the mere existence of (I do not go any farther, nor look back in DWW sys hundres of delirious, trouting pests) :
@164
and
@166 (comique de répétition)
As computer science is meant to alleviate tedious, repetitive tasks, may I suggesst to His Majesty to have a program writing huge tons of unthought propaganda? I bet this would not make a difference....
175 • Re: 173 • Puppy 4.0 (by Ariszló on 2008-05-05 06:41:47 GMT from Hungary)
Top 5 Tiny Distros by Susan Linton:
http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/26480
Number of Comments: 175
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| • Issue 1101 (2024-12-16): GhostBSD 24.10.1, sending attachments from the command line, openSUSE shows off GPU assignment tool, UBports publishes security update, Murena launches its first tablet, Xfce 4.20 released |
| • Issue 1100 (2024-12-09): Oreon 9.3, differences in speed, IPFire's new appliance, Fedora Asahi Remix gets new video drivers, openSUSE Leap Micro updated, Redox OS running Redox OS |
| • Issue 1099 (2024-12-02): AnduinOS 1.0.1, measuring RAM usage, SUSE continues rebranding efforts, UBports prepares for next major version, Murena offering non-NFC phone |
| • Issue 1098 (2024-11-25): Linux Lite 7.2, backing up specific folders, Murena and Fairphone partner in fair trade deal, Arch installer gets new text interface, Ubuntu security tool patched |
| • Issue 1097 (2024-11-18): Chimera Linux vs Chimera OS, choosing between AlmaLinux and Debian, Fedora elevates KDE spin to an edition, Fedora previews new installer, KDE testing its own distro, Qubes-style isolation coming to FreeBSD |
| • Issue 1096 (2024-11-11): Bazzite 40, Playtron OS Alpha 1, Tucana Linux 3.1, detecting Screen sessions, Redox imports COSMIC software centre, FreeBSD booting on the PinePhone Pro, LXQt supports Wayland window managers |
| • Issue 1095 (2024-11-04): Fedora 41 Kinoite, transferring applications between computers, openSUSE Tumbleweed receives multiple upgrades, Ubuntu testing compiler optimizations, Mint partners with Framework |
| • Issue 1094 (2024-10-28): DebLight OS 1, backing up crontab, AlmaLinux introduces Litten branch, openSUSE unveils refreshed look, Ubuntu turns 20
| | • Issue 1093 (2024-10-21): Kubuntu 24.10, atomic vs immutable distributions, Debian upgrading Perl packages, UBports adding VoLTE support, Android to gain native GNU/Linux application support |
| • Issue 1092 (2024-10-14): FunOS 24.04.1, a home directory inside a file, work starts of openSUSE Leap 16.0, improvements in Haiku, KDE neon upgrades its base |
| • Issue 1091 (2024-10-07): Redox OS 0.9.0, Unified package management vs universal package formats, Redox begins RISC-V port, Mint polishes interface, Qubes certifies new laptop |
| • Issue 1090 (2024-09-30): Rhino Linux 2024.2, commercial distros with alternative desktops, Valve seeks to improve Wayland performance, HardenedBSD parterns with Protectli, Tails merges with Tor Project, Quantum Leap partners with the FreeBSD Foundation |
| • Issue 1089 (2024-09-23): Expirion 6.0, openKylin 2.0, managing configuration files, the future of Linux development, fixing bugs in Haiku, Slackware packages dracut |
| • Issue 1088 (2024-09-16): PorteuX 1.6, migrating from Windows 10 to which Linux distro, making NetBSD immutable, AlmaLinux offers hardware certification, Mint updates old APT tools |
| • Issue 1087 (2024-09-09): COSMIC desktop, running cron jobs at variable times, UBports highlights new apps, HardenedBSD offers work around for FreeBSD change, Debian considers how to cull old packages, systemd ported to musl |
| • Issue 1086 (2024-09-02): Vanilla OS 2, command line tips for simple tasks, FreeBSD receives investment from STF, openSUSE Tumbleweed update can break network connections, Debian refreshes media |
| • Issue 1085 (2024-08-26): Nobara 40, OpenMandriva 24.07 "ROME", distros which include source code, FreeBSD publishes quarterly report, Microsoft updates breaks Linux in dual-boot environments |
| • Issue 1084 (2024-08-19): Liya 2.0, dual boot with encryption, Haiku introduces performance improvements, Gentoo dropping IA-64, Redcore merges major upgrade |
| • Issue 1083 (2024-08-12): TrueNAS 24.04.2 "SCALE", Linux distros for smartphones, Redox OS introduces web server, PipeWire exposes battery drain on Linux, Canonical updates kernel version policy |
| • Issue 1082 (2024-08-05): Linux Mint 22, taking snapshots of UFS on FreeBSD, openSUSE updates Tumbleweed and Aeon, Debian creates Tiny QA Tasks, Manjaro testing immutable images |
| • Issue 1081 (2024-07-29): SysLinuxOS 12.4, OpenBSD gain hardware acceleration, Slackware changes kernel naming, Mint publishes upgrade instructions |
| • Issue 1080 (2024-07-22): Running GNU/Linux on Android with Andronix, protecting network services, Solus dropping AppArmor and Snap, openSUSE Aeon Desktop gaining full disk encryption, SUSE asks openSUSE to change its branding |
| • Issue 1079 (2024-07-15): Ubuntu Core 24, hiding files on Linux, Fedora dropping X11 packages on Workstation, Red Hat phasing out GRUB, new OpenSSH vulnerability, FreeBSD speeds up release cycle, UBports testing new first-run wizard |
| • Issue 1078 (2024-07-08): Changing init software, server machines running desktop environments, OpenSSH vulnerability patched, Peppermint launches new edition, HardenedBSD updates ports |
| • Issue 1077 (2024-07-01): The Unity and Lomiri interfaces, different distros for different tasks, Ubuntu plans to run Wayland on NVIDIA cards, openSUSE updates Leap Micro, Debian releases refreshed media, UBports gaining contact synchronisation, FreeDOS celebrates its 30th anniversary |
| • Issue 1076 (2024-06-24): openSUSE 15.6, what makes Linux unique, SUSE Liberty Linux to support CentOS Linux 7, SLE receives 19 years of support, openSUSE testing Leap Micro edition |
| • Issue 1075 (2024-06-17): Redox OS, X11 and Wayland on the BSDs, AlmaLinux releases Pi build, Canonical announces RISC-V laptop with Ubuntu, key changes in systemd |
| • Issue 1074 (2024-06-10): Endless OS 6.0.0, distros with init diversity, Mint to filter unverified Flatpaks, Debian adds systemd-boot options, Redox adopts COSMIC desktop, OpenSSH gains new security features |
| • Issue 1073 (2024-06-03): LXQt 2.0.0, an overview of Linux desktop environments, Canonical partners with Milk-V, openSUSE introduces new features in Aeon Desktop, Fedora mirrors see rise in traffic, Wayland adds OpenBSD support |
| • Issue 1072 (2024-05-27): Manjaro 24.0, comparing init software, OpenBSD ports Plasma 6, Arch community debates mirror requirements, ThinOS to upgrade its FreeBSD core |
| • Issue 1071 (2024-05-20): Archcraft 2024.04.06, common command line mistakes, ReactOS imports WINE improvements, Haiku makes adjusting themes easier, NetBSD takes a stand against code generated by chatbots |
| • Issue 1070 (2024-05-13): Damn Small Linux 2024, hiding kernel messages during boot, Red Hat offers AI edition, new web browser for UBports, Fedora Asahi Remix 40 released, Qubes extends support for version 4.1 |
| • Issue 1069 (2024-05-06): Ubuntu 24.04, installing packages in alternative locations, systemd creates sudo alternative, Mint encourages XApps collaboration, FreeBSD publishes quarterly update |
| • Issue 1068 (2024-04-29): Fedora 40, transforming one distro into another, Debian elects new Project Leader, Red Hat extends support cycle, Emmabuntus adds accessibility features, Canonical's new security features |
| • Issue 1067 (2024-04-22): LocalSend for transferring files, detecting supported CPU architecure levels, new visual design for APT, Fedora and openSUSE working on reproducible builds, LXQt released, AlmaLinux re-adds hardware support |
| • Issue 1066 (2024-04-15): Fun projects to do with the Raspberry Pi and PinePhone, installing new software on fixed-release distributions, improving GNOME Terminal performance, Mint testing new repository mirrors, Gentoo becomes a Software In the Public Interest project |
| • Issue 1065 (2024-04-08): Dr.Parted Live 24.03, answering questions about the xz exploit, Linux Mint to ship HWE kernel, AlmaLinux patches flaw ahead of upstream Red Hat, Calculate changes release model |
| • Issue 1064 (2024-04-01): NixOS 23.11, the status of Hurd, liblzma compromised upstream, FreeBSD Foundation focuses on improving wireless networking, Ubuntu Pro offers 12 years of support |
| • Issue 1063 (2024-03-25): Redcore Linux 2401, how slowly can a rolling release update, Debian starts new Project Leader election, Red Hat creating new NVIDIA driver, Snap store hit with more malware |
| • Full list of all issues |
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