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1 • Jay a positive comment on Gentoo! (by Aniruddha on 2008-04-07 10:36:50 GMT from Netherlands)
Thanks for letting the rest of the world know Gentoo is alive and well :)
2 • SLED XI? (by CXN3 on 2008-04-07 11:03:35 GMT from United Kingdom)
Regarding SUSE's enterprise offering: does anybody know when SLED XI is going to be released?
3 • RE: April Fool's PHR prank (by Rip_Van_WInkle on 2008-04-07 11:07:07 GMT from United States)
that was by far the best April's fool prank i seen in a long time, made me take a second glance, fortunately i knew what day it was and had a good laugh...
4 • Idea for Donation (by Leo on 2008-04-07 11:46:27 GMT from United States)
Hi Ladislav
Thank you so much for your donation to the Free Software community. May I postulate a project I truly repect ?
gspca / spca5xx
http://mxhaard.free.fr/
This guy has been making hundreds of webcams available under Linux. The project is small enough that a few hundred USD will make a difference
Again, thank you so much!
Leo
5 • errata (by Leo on 2008-04-07 11:48:56 GMT from United States)
I meant so say "nominate", not "postulate", above. Time for a coffee ;-)
6 • PHR (by lalala on 2008-04-07 12:06:03 GMT from United States)
PHR was already a joke, the prank wasn't needed.
7 • donation (by ac on 2008-04-07 12:26:25 GMT from Hungary)
Agree in the gspca / spca5xx donation thing, he really deserves it.
8 • perhaps a Troll ? (by Christophe on 2008-04-07 12:55:47 GMT from France)
I looked at Zenwalk 5.0 last week , what a wonderful distro for a geek !!!! So bad we can't use it on every day... Why ? Because, instead of firefox and thunderbird, they made the choice of iceWeasel and iceDove, some buggy softwares that justify the point of view of mozilla foundation not to let use their logo and trademark without warranty !!! And no firefox and thunderbird availables ! Because of the philosophy of the distribution which made the choice of an application for a task ! So, many basic extensions just don't work the way they must ...
I thought that linux had finished whith integrism and obscurantism ! But it seems not ! What I hope is that we won't need one of this days wine to run firefox on our linux boxes !!!
9 • Qu 8 Is Zenwalk such a wonderful distribution (by dbrion on 2008-04-07 13:30:44 GMT from France)
for a {k,c,g}onsole / CLI user?
with Zenwalk 5.0, as a live CD, the only way I found to launch a CLI was by typing xterm...
the console with a visible button led to very weird behavior, or I had no luck. It was worse (perhaps I am very unskilled or unlucky, but I get more luck with *any* other live CD I try...) with Zenwalk Christmas edition [ca 25/12/2007] (xaos could not be launched, either).
10 • slitaz (by werner, cayenne on 2008-04-07 13:44:21 GMT from France)
As I'm trying almost all new distros/versions, today I tried SLITAZ. This is really a very nice, small system. With own package managing and everything. Visibly superior than DSL in almost all points.
A few points what I suggest to improve: / There should be set up automatically an ADSL connection / default user should be root / All partitions on hard discs should be found and automountet (like on SLAX or SYS) / mc should be included for use in text mode
11 • Webcam project (by davemc on 2008-04-07 13:44:42 GMT from United States)
Completely agree. The guy deserves a goodly donation for all he has done and more!
12 • A suggestion for PHR (by probiscus on 2008-04-07 13:45:51 GMT from United States)
I would like to see Distrowatch modify the PHR such that on the front page at least, the top three, four or five distros listed are listed not by their ranking, but instead in a random order of those 3-5 distros. That way every time someone visits the page, there is a different distro at the top of the list, which would benefit from the attention that being first obviously entails. If someone wants to look at the statistics and the actual PHR rankings, they could easily click through to another page where they may play with the numbers to their hearts content. So for example, say I visit once and I get openSUSE first, and Fedora second, then I hit refresh and the top two are PCLinuxOS and Ubuntu. I think this would benefit the almost #1 distros (which are all excellent), and reduce the "PCLinuxOS is cheating" type comments. Thanks.
13 • KARAMAD! (by whocares on 2008-04-07 13:53:27 GMT from Finland)
I knew it! I knew it! Karamad is even more popular than ubuntu (actually both sounds stupid) ;)
14 • Webcam project (by Gustavo on 2008-04-07 13:53:55 GMT from United States)
I agree too..this guy is a hero. He's one of the very important reasons i can live without Windows.
15 • 8 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-07 14:02:50 GMT from United States)
Well, all of that is irrelevant, because you didn't get a legal copy of Zenwalk anyway. They don't distribute the source, so they have no right to distribute the software.
Whether it be Microsoft, Adobe, Red Hat, Canonical, Mepis or Zenwalk, none of them get to pick and choose which parts of the license they want to ignore because compliance is inconvenient.
16 • SaxenOS (by Anonymous on 2008-04-07 14:06:19 GMT from United States)
I liked version 1 of SaxenOS the best. It was small, based on Slackware, and had the EDE desktop. Since then the project seemed to lose focus. First switching to Mepis as a base, and now PCLOS. I wish they would resurrect version 1.
17 • @4 @8 @10 (by franzy on 2008-04-07 14:20:46 GMT from Italy)
- ok for donation at gspca / spca5xx, good work!
- ok for suggestions to improve slitaz.
- mmmh.. I think Zenwalk is a great small distro (but I use Slack, Slax, Vector... ;-)
18 • Dreamlinux & VMware (by jollyx on 2008-04-07 14:21:15 GMT from Spain)
Dreamlinux3 did not work for me on VMware. Strange because the last beta worked.
19 • Webcam project (by Stefano Tullii on 2008-04-07 14:27:16 GMT from Italy)
I will start agreeing with people suggesting a donation to the gspca project when my "Logitech Webcam for Notebooks" starts working... :-(
20 • Slitaz, great ! something new! (by peter on 2008-04-07 14:36:25 GMT from Denmark)
slitaz, is fast,so fast its scary - how sad i dont wanna waist more time learning to set up linux, and less time being productive.
The only way i could get my wacom one to work was because of the ubuntu forum, and of ubuntu, i just know to little to go the "console way" all the time, i could ...but it takse to much time, fun ? yes !, bot to loooong time.
But slitaz, was one of the more fun Distros in looong time, to me, and a lot of others all linux distros seem the same, no news just the standup, difference in desktop...
Hey, Ubuntu is just my favorite, and i learn to compile stuff when i need it, but to compile every thing ...? setting up internet? and stuff....;-)
anyway slitaz, is staying in my bookmarks*S*
21 • SaxenOs (by dubigrasu on 2008-04-07 14:50:19 GMT from Romania)
I agree with comment nr. 16. That SaxenOs ( version 1) is the best, and EDE is blazing fast. I still use it on an old computer and works very good. I tried the Mepis based one and it was considerably sluggish. As for this PcLinuxOs version... why bother ?
What's next? A SaxenOs based on Suse ?
""Since then the project seemed to lose focus"" So true...
22 • Utility/Rescue Distros (by fstephens at 2008-04-07 15:04:05 GMT from United States)
The mention of the development version of GParted Live, reminds me that maybe it would be good to see a review of the various distros designed for system maintenance, data recovery, partitioning, etc.
And if the news is slow, how about reviewing forensic oriented distros?
Also, I think restricting these smaller distros to 50Mb is unnecessary.
Does anyone really use those odd shaped business card CDs?
Making them a little larger and therefore more user friendly won't hurt. I think the 200MB of the mini-CD's might be a useful upper limit, since even most all USB flash drives are at least 256MB now. These round CDs are hardly bigger than the business card type and hold lots more.
I would like to see a Debian-based one, using BASH and Fluxbox perhaps. Easily unpalatable and customizable too.
23 • RE 22 : I agree that rescue distros should be more considered (by dbrion on 2008-04-07 15:17:44 GMT from France)
However, I see two detail points I slightly disagree :
a) more and more people use their fav.distro liveCD (as main distr are often shipped with live+install CD at the same time) to fix (for example) lilo/grub in a user friendly way (as they are accustomed to their fav. distr. ergonomy...) => nice graphical rescuers are not that needed for "usual" (I hope not) tasks.
b) There remain very old computers, and pple may want them to live forever (it was so difficult to repair them/have them working), even without graphical cards (or broken ones, very difficult to find a substitute....). Why should these skilled conservative people be dispaired?
Thus, making rescue CDs sexier (and more RAM /ressource greedy) might be an error....
24 • RE: # 22 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-07 15:22:33 GMT from Italy)
I find Parted magic absolutely great. Not only it has great tools, but it is a mini distro as well, it has a few apps, including Firefox.
Yesterday I resized one of my Linux partitions with it and everything was fine.
Parted Magic gets improved with much love on a regular basis.
25 • perhaps a Troll (suite) @15 @17 (by Christophe on 2008-04-07 15:24:04 GMT from France)
I'm not complaining about zenwalk ! I 'm just complaining about distros which make the choice of Icedove and IceWeasel instead of Firefox and Thunderbird when their philosophy is an task=one application ! If you use these pale copies of the originals, you know what I'm talking about ! And I think, that's not the way to make competitive OS... that's why I'm talking about geek's or integrist's distros... as you like ;-) But in fact, that's more a reget that a blame !
26 • 25 errata (by Christophe on 2008-04-07 15:27:44 GMT from France)
But in fact, that's more a regret that a blame !
27 • 26 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-07 15:31:33 GMT from United States)
And I'll be sure to point out that Zenwalk is illegal anytime someone brings it up. These parasitic distros need to be stamped out as quickly as possible. You're a parasite if you don't meet your obligations under the GPL.
28 • #27 - 'parasite' (by ray carter at 2008-04-07 15:37:57 GMT from United States)
I wonder how many distros fully comply with both the spirit and the letter of the GPL?
29 • Dreamlinux (by Slacker on 2008-04-07 15:40:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
Sorry, Susan - my immediate impression of DL was: pile of pants. I could not get X started on bog standard hardware and the file structure is a total mess. Couldn't locate the necessary files to edit and the rudimentary error messages were no help, either. Trying to track down files to edit was exasperated by a US default k/b. Shame the Brazilians are a fan of GWB - such nice people, too. Overall: waste of space.
30 • @26, @27 Zen.... (by dbrion on 2008-04-07 15:47:26 GMT from France)
@26 s/that /than /
Perhaps you should try to compile ... lynx, if you can open a terminal (is very easy) ..... Then you will get two apps per task!!!
@27
"71 • Zenwalk and GPL source (by Claus Futtrup on 2008-02-12 16:54:03 GMT from Denmark)
"
In DWW comments, they seem to be aware that it cannot last (it is not just a matter of ethics, but it may be usefuld for maintenance, as apps developpers can lose their download sites and one can be interested in what the distr maker did -it is a human right to be curious-).
They seem to promise to do something to make source accessible (and why should they lie : Luegen haben kurze Beine, that would discredit them)...
31 • @Christophe (by Anonymous on 2008-04-07 15:48:52 GMT from Italy)
I tend to agree with you. In 2008, when so many distros have Real Player, Flash, Acrobat Reader, Java, proprietary drivers (some installed by default, some not), what is the problem with Firefox and Thunderbird?.
With Iceweasel i can't even do online banking: my bank says that I am using an unsupported browser!
32 • No subject (by werner on 2008-04-07 15:50:41 GMT from France)
The discusion about the legality of Zenwalk and/or of the GPL, inclusiveky by the customer's laws, we had already few weeks ago. We habe to see not to be controlled by the software providers, but we have also to stay awake not to be controlled by kind of auto-denominated pseudo-police. What's a fact is, that 95% of the users dont want the source code but they want only the binaries. Thus, from the consummer's law it's questionalbe, inhowfar the GPL is legal in Europe, because it's neither the interest of the producers nor of the users to get the code too. I'm not advocat, but I suspect that the GPL is simply 'null'/invalid in that point, but like all customer-related contracts stay valid in all other items.
I agree that its much better to have a huge, maximal distro what's fast installed, than a minimum distro. On the other hand, there are applications for minimal distros. One are old computers. When they still working, why throw away instead of install a nice small system ?? Also, we get more and more small things what isn't computer and where one could install such small systems good. Also, to get a rescue system grafically still keeping it small, would be good for beginners. We should not only think on us we who know Linux already. There is still many to improve in order that it become more accepted.
@19: Logitech is a Linux-unfriendly firma. Thus, for use with Linux, people should buy anything else
33 • In regard to PHR (by IMQ on 2008-04-07 15:51:00 GMT from United States)
In the spirit of "Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD.", may I make a suggestion. :=)
Instead of listing the top 10 on the list, why don't we, say pick the range in the middle (50-59) of top 100 and list them as top 10. We'll just call it PHR (Promotional Hit Rate). We set the goal for, say, 1000 PHR) or 8 weeks, whichever comes first, then we rotate the top 10 next range of 10 (60-69).
This way we can promote Linux and BSD across the board! The idea here is to promote Linux/BSD, not distro specific.
"Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD."
Who knows! This might even stop the my-distro-is-better-than-your-distro bashing.
Or it could raise the my-distro-is-better-than-your-distro bashing to the tsunami level.
:):):)
34 • 28 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-07 15:57:35 GMT from United States)
I guess most of them. When other distros have it pointed out that they are obviously violating the GPL, they comply (even Mepis did so, however reluctantly).
I found out about the issue when visiting the Zenwalk forums due to a problem with something else. Someone asked where to find the source, and the answer was to abuse him/her and explain how stupid both he/she and the GPL are.
THAT is why I'm passionate about the issue and have labeled them parasites. They do not have to use GPLed software.
35 • RE 32 Is there a rational basis for your great "theories" and (by Anonymous on 2008-04-07 16:01:08 GMT from France)
filosopy (sic)?
Or is it just an insult to intelligence???
"What's a fact is, that 95% of the users dont want the source code but they want only the binarie. "
* Avez vous des chiffres dignes de foi (pas du parasitisme pathologique) étayant votre "pourcentage"?
* Qui êtes vous, pour prétendre représenter les consommateurs?
I am fed up with unassimilated (caricature of) ideology...
36 • funny (by Anonymous on 2008-04-07 16:10:06 GMT from France)
Funny that a distro is considered like an integrist distro because of icedove and iceweasel and in another hand lke a parasite one with the GPL...
But I guess that 100% of the "95% of the users dont want the source code" complain about icedove and iceweasel !!!!! ;-)
37 • sidux (by texasmike on 2008-04-07 16:13:00 GMT from United States)
Still running sidux. Lightning fast, rolling release and a stable Debian sid. Give it a try. You won't be sorry!
38 • @36 (by Christophe on 2008-04-07 16:22:04 GMT from France)
So, you mean 100% of zenwalk users ! ;-)
Is ther a zenwalk fan here to explain us ?
39 • RE: #23 (by fstephens at 2008-04-07 16:57:44 GMT from United States)
Good points and I agree with you, but I think in 200MB their is room to have both cases covered. Why not several boot options to choose a "lite or "heavy" environment? Such a distro could also include several images for things like Memtest that could be selected from the boot menu. Using the live CD is certainly an option, an perhaps the best one for the average user. Not so easy to carry in your pocket though.
The command line tools would always be available for those that need them. I prefer them as well, but there are cases where a lightweight graphical app would make things easier. A browser to research problems, post questions to forums, etc. comes to mind first. Yes, include Links too for the CL. Another handy item would be a graphical file manager. I like mc, but sometimes it is just easier to drag & drop files and view them graphically. A CD/DVD burner likewise is just easier to use if graphical. It doesn't need to be K3B, but just have a graphical way to select files & directories to be written to disk for data recovery. Yes, I have burned lots of CDs from the CL.
I know there are DSL, Puppy, Slitaz, etc. but they are quirky or limited for this use in my opinion. But if they can pack in all the desktop apps they do in 25-125MB, surely we could make a killer utility/rescue distro in 200MB. Lots of documentation could be included as well as keeping the man pages and help files that so many of the tiny distros throw out.
40 • April Fool's Prank (by Full Tank on 2008-04-07 16:58:00 GMT from United States)
I must confess I hit DW page that day and I had just finished installing Ubuntu. I thought I had mixed up languages somehow. What is even more of a kicker is when I refreshed the page, they were all correct! It made me think I was having problems associated with getting old. I went and took a nap.
41 • Klipper Tip! re-up (by Hephaestus on 2008-04-07 17:01:32 GMT from United States)
Guess I was a little tale before so here it is again.
--
I'm sure some of you have used one of those FF plug-ins that let you do things like searches when you right click on a word. But wouldn't you like to be able to do that in every program instead of just firefox? Well than the Klipper is for you! (Or the glipper too maybe, I don't use Gnome) Many people seem to be unaware of how powerful this tool can be.
I know I was until I read this article:
http://www.linux.com/feature/130852
For anyone like me in the process of learning a new language, this is a real time saver.
Regular Expressions Rock! But hey isn't this just scratching the surface? I am no programmer, I don't even understand most of the default actions, though I still figured out how to enable the use of Google's 'define:' feature by adding this command
firefox "www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3A+"%s"&btnG=Google+Search"
If anyone knows where I can find a comprehensive list of useful actions for Klipper, it would be highly appreciated!
Thank you and good day!
42 • RE 39 : I would agree with you on a graphical rescue CD (by dbrion on 2008-04-07 17:24:47 GMT from France)
if the world we live in now were perfect and if developpers had infinite time to develop, test and maintain....
I suppose (hope I am wrong) than supporting #screens needs skills, and time to acquire this knowledge: this time would not be dedicated to the primary purpose of a rescue CD, if it is developped (as it is to day) by very competent -in their domain, at least- specialized but perhaps isolated people (who often have a job besides....)
And, as storage technologies, needs (ex. encryption) and formats seem to evolve (too) quickly now and as one (wo)man cannot carry two jars on her/his head, better seems (IMO) they remain specialized -or linked with big distrs, if their developper wishes it..
43 • Dream Linux 3.0 and 3.1 have issues (by Brian Masinick on 2008-04-07 17:54:48 GMT from United States)
I have Dream Linux 2.2 installed on one of my home desktop systems and I have pointed the Debian Testing repositories to a nearby local site, and just this past week I upgraded it. I am VERY happy with the results, and I can heartily recommend it as a fast, lightweight, capable desktop system with good performance and stability.
I have, however, avoided installing either 3.0 or 3.1 because a couple of people I respect in one of the forums I participate in have had no end of problems in installing both releases on their hard drive. One of the people did use 3.0 as a Live CD and found it handy in that regard, but when he installed 3.0 on the hard drive, GRUB refused to function properly - worse than reported in Susan's report - it would not properly invoke at all. Repeated attempts, even with 3.1 yielded the same results, even after some brief collaboration with a member of the Dream Linux forum.
Based on that experience coupled with the comments in the report above, I cannot recommend the Dream Linux 3 series to anyone, though if any of you do have time to work with the developers to sort out the issues (my time right now is limited) perhaps the final problems can be sorted out and corrected and a solid version with problem fixes can be released. I certainly hope so. Too bad there are growing pains as a different infrastructure component is integrated - but it does indicate the need for a lot of testing when there are changes of this magnitude and scope. Wish I could help out more to resolve the remaining issues, but perhaps a call for testing assistance here will yield some exposure and help for the project. In many ways this is appealing software, it just isn't quite working right yet.
44 • Re: April Fool's Prank... (by JR on 2008-04-07 18:09:38 GMT from Greece)
Ladislav,
that was very naughty and rather risky...;-D.
Most popular distro from Iran? Oh boy!!! You are just looking to get a visit
from the G-men, right? I hear they are already preparing a specialized section in Gitmo for IT people. All "guests" will be forced to participate in developing the next version of America's Army. They will also be "re-educated" that the only REAL OSes for decent, freedom-loving people are the ones that start with "Win" and end in "ows".
45 • Gentoo: floating belly up! (by Yugo on 2008-04-07 18:38:29 GMT from Canada)
I'm really sorry, but Gentoo is floating belly up. In February, I was experiencing security problems. Both Debian and Ubuntu were brought down (root password changed) within 15 minutes after being on the net. (No doubt, Goatse must have been at it!) So I went to Gentoo's security Handbook for hardening my system.
But this left me perplex:
/bin/echo "0" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/all/secure_redirects
<http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/security/security-handbook.xml?part=1&chap=9>
Isn't secure_redirects a good thing? So I began looking elsewhere on the net and it was about 1/3 echo "0", 2/3 echo "1". But amongst the "1" were both IBM and a certain Andreasson, who seemed to have examined the subject closely. I thought it was appropriate to ring Gentoo a bell.
On February 24th, I wrote to battousai and phreak chez gentoo. I never got an answer.
So, on the 28th, I wrote to Daniel Robbins. On the same day, he transferred my message to Donnie Berkholz, who does the PR, apparently.
On March 4th, my message was transferred to Kim Nielsen, who had participated to writing the security page.
On March 7th, Nielsen, whose email filter didn't accept my name (no first name + family name) answers and confirms there is an error!
On the 9th, Berkholz tells me I should fill a bug report. I explain that I'm not a Gentoo user and that I consulted IBM's and Andreasson's pages as much as theirs. I'm not a security expert, not a network expert, not even a Linux expert and, by then, he knew as much as I, and he is a developer.
10th, Robbins tries to convince Berkholz to fill a bug report. Berkholz protests that he doesn't have time.
March 1st, Berkholz fills the bug report!!!! You'll find it here:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=215532
But two months and two weeks after I tried to advise Gentoo, it isn't fixed yet. And this is a security problem that most distros would have fixed within 12 hours. And Ladislav is telling us that Gentoo is alive and kicking?
Note that Mandrake, for which our beloved Ladislav doesn't seem to have much consideration -- never anything new, he says -- implements all kernel security on Gentoo's page *by default*. And secure_redirects are set to "1"! Shorewall is a very good *stateful* firewall. So, generally, its security is way ahead of Debian's and Ubuntu's.
46 • Ubuntu had blew up my pc!! (by Salmi at 2008-04-07 18:44:26 GMT from Norway)
Two days ago i had installed 7.10 on my pc with cel 2,26 ghz, 256 mb, 80 gb hdd, and radeon 9600 on it. After complete installed and the os i rebooted. The grub shows, it normal, then i enter, but what happen? My hdd sounds stranged, about a half minutes i saw a fire in front of my pc. I unplugged the electricity immediately. Then i saw into them. What a hell is that!! My cpu burned, my hdd get burned too. I dont know why this happen. I really got a "hard crashed of the year!!" :-(
47 • re 31 my bank says that I am using an unsupported browser! (by Fractalguy on 2008-04-07 18:44:51 GMT from United States)
"With Iceweasel i can't even do online banking: my bank says that I am using an unsupported browser!"
I use *sidux* which is Debian. Debian has rule so that the GPL and other applicable laws are observed. Trade mark is just as important as copyright. Debian concludes that Mozilla's trademark must be acknowledged but when Debian changes the code a little the code becomes a fork. Therefore a new name is required: like Iceweasel with a new mark.
To fix the banking issue I had to put about:config in the URL navigation window. On the config page, scroll down to
general.useragent.extra.firefox. Click it to change the value to Firefox.2.0.0.6 or whatever release you have. This will tell the bank what it needs to see. :)
This whole arrangement has been worked out with Mozilla so as to comply with the strict Free software stand taken by Debian.
BTW, I still look at new distros (old distro hoppers never die, they just get installed). The latest being slitaz-1.0 (cute but barely functional) and slax-6.0.3 (alas, no Firefox. Konqueror sucks for some browser needs.)
48 • ice(whatever) (by RollMeAway on 2008-04-07 20:13:21 GMT from United States)
A simple solution for those that don't like iceweasle, icedove etc.
Un-install all ice(whatever) packages then:
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all.html
Download from the source and install it yourself.
Comes complete with the real icons also!
Same for Thunderbird:
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/thunderbird/all.html
49 • *sigh* (by Anonymous on 2008-04-07 20:21:38 GMT from United States)
I'm always amazed at the number of ways people will use to justify not distributing source when the license requires it.
If you don't want to provide access to source, that's fine, just don't use any software license that requires source and stop shipping software that use those licenses. Problem solved. Of course that limits the amount of software that can be shipped, but that is your choice.
50 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-04-07 20:41:46 GMT from United States)
Arch does not use Firefox either. However, the AUR has firefox-official, which will do all of the work for you.
(Bon Echo, frankly, is a piece of junk.)
51 • re:46 you should write a bugreport man (by Dopher on 2008-04-07 20:44:26 GMT from Belgium)
really, write a bugreport. Ubuntu causes fire to the cpu and HDD. You're lucky that you're still alive man. Good luck.
52 • Maryan Linux is OUT! (by Anonymous on 2008-04-07 22:18:40 GMT from United States)
http://maryanlinux.wordpress.com/
53 • No subject (by Christophe on 2008-04-07 22:26:13 GMT from France)
I've just made the most stupid thing of my life of "linuxien" ! I've installed windows version of firefox with wine ! It works !!!!
54 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-04-07 23:50:34 GMT from Aruba)
#4: that is the best damn suggestion I've seen on these threads in a long time. It's a very worthy project indeed.
55 • RE: # 47 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-08 00:27:53 GMT from Italy)
Thanks for your advice!
However, I have added the Mepis repo to my sources.list (I use Parsix). Mepis has Firefox and Thunderbird.
56 • RE: # 53 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-08 00:30:41 GMT from Italy)
Actually that is the solution used by the PC-BSD people in order to have Flash working. I find it quite ingenious :)
57 • REF# 37 • sidux (by John Grubb on 2008-04-08 00:31:37 GMT from United States)
I agree totally! I saw the DE review a couple of issues ago and tried it out. Great distro and even better web site for help.
I knew going in it was using the unstable of debian, and expected a lot of erros or crahes. Nothing of that happened.
It's a Stable Unstable debian?! Sounds contradictory I know, but give it a try and you have a great forum to help and to chat with!
58 • 57 • REF# 37 • sidux (by John Grub on 2008-04-08 00:32:38 GMT from United States)
Correction, that's:
I agree totally! I saw the DW review and OT DE
59 • Parted Magic (by Andy Axnot on 2008-04-08 00:51:08 GMT from United States)
I have to agree with the comments about PartedMagic above. This is turning into a first class project. I hope it continues to develop.
Andy
60 • @46 (by DrDOS on 2008-04-08 01:32:03 GMT from United States)
It sounds like a random power supply failure to me.
61 • 46 - Ubuntu flames (by Ultra on 2008-04-08 02:31:59 GMT from Canada)
Not intending to start a flame war here, but obviously Ubuntu is the hottest distro ever.
62 • April Fool's Joke (by uz64 on 2008-04-08 02:54:31 GMT from United States)
"Some readers even sent elaborate screenshots of the page, showing the full table in several shots and demanding that I take immediate action to correct the error! It was fun to read them and thank you all for making my April 1st more fun than I had expected."
Wow. Must've really got some people good. Pretty funny.
I honestly didn't even realize a difference, that the list was messed with... I don't often look at the PHR list. Guess that's what happens when you're a veteran distro-hopping DistroWatch viewer--you start knowing what distros you like, and pay more attention to new versions of your favorite distros, instead of the page hit rankings (which, IMO, were most useful as an absolute newbie trying to find the most user-friendly, first-try distros).
63 • Diggin Sidux !!! (by David B on 2008-04-08 04:32:00 GMT from United States)
Having played around with all the major distros I really like Sidux a lot. Very helpful and friendly forums forums, very quick responses to tech questions over irc. I also like the fact that it is a rolling distro. I guess my second choice would be Ubuntu. Pure Debian is my third choice. With Sidux I get cutting edge debian with great support....(the debian forums are too clandestine for my taste). Plus it runs really fast !!!!
David B
64 • Feed Subscription Error (by ST on 2008-04-08 05:23:30 GMT from Canada)
I get the following error on Firefox when I click on the feed icon in the address bar and choose 'Distrowatch Weekly':
============================
XML Parsing Error: not well-formed
Location: jar:file:///usr/lib/firefox/chrome/browser.jar!/content/browser/feeds/subscribe.xhtml
Line Number 1, Column 6: "n");
-----^
============================
65 • Re: #32 (by fin on 2008-04-08 08:15:37 GMT from Finland)
werner, I suggested in February that you read the GPL faq. You obviously didn't.
http://fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html
Or maybe you did read it but forgot the second part of my suggestion which was: "understand". Please do that now.
66 • Re: #53 (by fin on 2008-04-08 08:28:41 GMT from Finland)
"I've just made the most stupid thing of my life of "linuxien" ! I've installed windows version of firefox with wine ! It works !!!!"
Are ready for Internet Explorer?
http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page
67 • PCLOS Gnome 2008 (by ksys on 2008-04-08 08:49:56 GMT from Denmark)
I have not found any information about PCLOS Gnome 2008???
68 • Dreamlinux 3.1 (by ksys on 2008-04-08 08:53:07 GMT from Denmark)
I have just spotted the new version in Content of the last DW Weekly :D
69 • From Bank Clerk to Linux Guru ("GOD") (by Only In America on 2008-04-08 09:03:23 GMT from Australia)
My name is Bill Reynolds aka Texstar. I am a 46 year old former banking professional with 17 years experience in retail banking management. I retired from banking in 1997 and started a small home based computer repair business. Most of my time is spent either repairing computers or working on PCLinuxOS.
USA ----> Land of Opportunity! :-)
Who said linux needs qualified software engineers to make it the greatest OS since sliced-bread?
70 • Re 69 Gastronomy "the greatest OS since sliced-bread?" (by dbrion on 2008-04-08 09:14:30 GMT from France)
Did you ever try to put slice-bread in a CD burner? with honey?jam? (@46 might have some insight)
71 • @ 63 (by texasmike on 2008-04-08 09:37:09 GMT from United States)
Thing about the Debian forums is they have a lot of self-proclaimed "experts" there. The best thing someone can do is arm themselves with knowledge by Reading the wiki's, etc...
sidux, on the other hand, has a very good community oriented atmosphere. Everyone helps each other in a non-dogmatic way.
Moving to sidux is the best thing I have done. It's Debian, fast and friendly.
72 • @69 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-04-08 11:23:29 GMT from United Kingdom)
Why would that have anything at all to do with America?
I was born in England, live in Canada, and my degree is in history...you meet Linux enthusiasts all over the place who have no professional experience in computing. Has nothing to do with America.
73 • Mandriva Linux 2008 Spring release warm up (by Anonymous on 2008-04-08 11:54:54 GMT from United States)
The Mandriva Linux 2008 Spring release warm up program has begun: 300 early seeders have been contacted and have started to seed the torrents. Be ready to download Mandriva Linux 2008 Spring in the very next days!
74 • Dreamlinux (by Anonymous on 2008-04-08 14:24:38 GMT from Canada)
Finally completed the installation of Dreamlinux with the help of scripts from Dreamlinux's forum, which fixes the installation problems stated in the DW's review. This is on my son's computer as he likes the warm fuzzy feeling of a Mac-like interface. It has an AMD 3800+ CPU with 1G ram. I was really disappointed with its performance after playing around for a little while. I started the browser while playing a MP3 song. To my surprise, the music was briefly interrupted, and the mouse pointer became less reponsive. I repeated the same activities and got the same results. It seems that the performance is affected by multi-tasking. What a disappointment. I was able to do that without losing performance on a PII233/160M with OpenSuse. I installed the GNOME version, maybe the Xfce version is a bit faster. Will give it try.
BTW, also had some trouble finding a way to mute the splashing music at the start and to change the GRUB default boot option, anybody can help?
75 • Recovery Distros (by Jesse on 2008-04-08 15:24:21 GMT from Canada)
I agree with an above post that it would be nice to see some reviews of recovery/system rescue distros during th eslow periods. I often use distros like Knoppix or Clone Zilla and I'd like to know what else is out there for data recovery, disk cloning, hardware detection, etc.
76 • RE:# 72 (by Eddie Wilson on 2008-04-08 16:45:28 GMT from United States)
Andy, whats the problem? What does England, Canada and history have to do with anything? What does any of this have to do with anything?
77 • re 76 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-08 17:33:37 GMT from Canada)
Eddie, what's the matter with you? Don't you know how to read (post #69)? Are you ok?
78 • Re: #15, #27, #34, #49, #8 (by hawk on 2008-04-08 17:39:23 GMT from Germany)
You are pretty anal about the sources right? A repository with the sources is in the works. But why would I want the sources of a package if I can install a precompiled binary? In approx. 95% of all use cases I recompile if there is a newer version of that program available directly from the developers website. Then I download the source and recompile as almost all buidscripts are supplied in a standard install.
Zenwalk doesnt charge money and is not trying to be a commercial distribution in any way. And you might then read GPLv2 §3.b - nobody is required to provide the sources. Only a guarantee that they would provide the sources if asked for doing so. So it would be for a court to decide if shipping the license along the source code is a sufficient guarantee. BTW: Most users of zenwalk are able to use Google so nobody asked yet. I even did not meet the person on the forums who asked for the source
Finally I'd suggest you think first, write second. And the opinions of #8 are in no way irrelevant because you think he got an illegal copy.
@34: Usually these problems are solved in a cooperative manner - even those somewhat lazy questions (no own research firsthand). But I would be interested in this particular post - please link.
79 • Qu 78: Are sources useful or not? Why a repos , then? Why not , before (by dbrion on 2008-04-08 17:56:39 GMT from France)
"A repository with the sources is in the works"
Is it, yes or no, useful?
If it is unuseful, why build it? Seems a grand waste of time, then....
{Perhaps someone ate an install CD instead of sliced bread (cf 69), leading to tons of confusion @72 tried to dissolve....}
80 • 78 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-08 17:59:45 GMT from United States)
You don't have to provide a repository.
You do have to provide the sources. End of discussion.
"You are pretty anal about the sources right?"
Typical Zenwalk parasite attitude. I believe licenses should be respected. If they're not, it's illegal. You don't like the GPL, you don't have to use it, but you can't ignore it just because you think it's inconvenient.
81 • perhaps a troll (end) (by Christophe on 2008-04-08 18:41:57 GMT from France)
I 'm very sorry for this troll. I just wanted to point out problems with distributions which privilege Ice... against firefox and thunderbird ...
I was speaking about integrism... And another Troll came out which is not so away from this integrism...
Apologizes to Zenwalk users, I know that Zenwalk is not a commercial either an unfair distribution... It seems to me there is a confusion with GPL which is a way to protect opensource, (and has already been modified and will continue to evoluate), and must not be an aim itself...
I will always prefer fair practices at fair principles...
But in another hand I would like to understand why Zenwalk had made the choice of Ice... Is it not the same kind of principles against practice ?
82 • DreamLinux Review - OS Priorities (by Thomas Allen on 2008-04-08 18:42:12 GMT from United States)
You said: "Overall, Dreamlinux was a fairly solid release. I had issues with the installer, wireless and suspend support, and some applications were a bit crashy. But it looks good, comes with some good application choices (except Iceweasel that I find buggy), and the Dreamlinux tools were nice."
How can you call that a fairly solid release? It's great that they've made a pretty distro, but I think a release is a failure if you, a Linux pro by most standards, have trouble with the installer, hardware support problems, and system instability.
83 • Re: #80, #81 (by hawk on 2008-04-08 19:13:19 GMT from Germany)
@80:
Read the GPL. Try to understand (needs brain). You can distribute object code if you supply a guarantee that you will provide source code if asked. Most distributions do not install source code by default but instead provide packages in their repo that contain the sources. By your definition half the distributions on DW are parasite.
@81:
I dont criticize you for not liking icedeove/weasel. I was just refering to your post because I thought your opinion is not irrelevant as the troll claims.
@79:
Dont know if its useful. I usually compile sources directly from the developers website. But might be good for remastering ZW?
84 • #82 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-08 19:47:01 GMT from Canada)
It doesn't matter whether the reviewer called it solid or not. What's really important is the review actually listed all the problems and we know the problems after reading it. Whether a distro with those problems is solid or not is just a personal point of view, just like half empty or half full. Take it easy.
85 • Re 83 (by Christophe on 2008-04-08 20:07:56 GMT from France)
The problem is not if I like or not IceDove, weasel !
The problem is why distributions are shipped with buggy softwares for principles... I would only like to understand !
86 • 83 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-08 21:17:23 GMT from United States)
"You can distribute object code if you supply a guarantee that you will provide source code if asked."
Your point is what, exactly?
They don't provide the source, and that is why they are violating the GPL. They do not provide the source in any form. If they did that, they would not be failing to comply. I never said they have to do anything other than what you say. They don't do what you say.
As I said earlier, I found out about the issue by visiting the Zenwalk forums (I was using Zenwalk at that time) and saw the post where someone asked how to get the sources. He was called a troll and many other nasty things. He was told he could download the sources from other sites if he wanted it. Nobody answered that he can have it on DVD.
Please provide a link stating how to obtain all sources in compliance with the GPL. Then I will be convinced. After that, post the link to the Zenwalk forums to let them know as well.
87 • @86 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-08 21:33:28 GMT from Canada)
can you please provide the link to that thread in the zenwalk forums? I'd like to read that thing out of sheer curiosity. Thanks.
88 • Parted Magic (by Anonymous on 2008-04-08 22:14:20 GMT from United States)
Needs to fix primary partions of hard drives that other distros mess up including FAT32 and NTFS. I'm tired of cleaning up the wreckage when all I want to do is burn a USB key and use the USB install.
89 • @77 @76 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-04-08 22:42:21 GMT from United Kingdom)
77, thanks. and 76, why does everyone always think my name's Andy, even when it says Adam *right there*?! :)
90 • 86 - Try doing a little research yourself before being a big complainer (by Cornlover on 2008-04-08 23:28:30 GMT from Canada)
http://download.zenwalk.org/i486/source/README.html
The source repository is under construction, you can have a look at the work done by JRD there :
http://zenwalk.enialis.net/sources/
For any question, you can contact JRD : jrd~AT~animeka~DOT~com
91 • 86 - PS (by Cornlover on 2008-04-08 23:31:09 GMT from Canada)
it took less than 30 seconds for me to locate the Zenwalk sources...and I don't even use ZW,
92 • GPL, ref. sources (by werner, cayenne on 2008-04-08 23:37:55 GMT from France)
http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html
1) OK, reading here, then it's not necessary to provide sources in a srong sense, it would be possible to give the user the opportunity to download the sources, and this don't need to be from the same site, nor from an own site, sufficient a link.
There, the GPL argues also that however it would be the risk of the distributer that a link is now OK but in some years the source could be retracted by external sites and then the would be come 'illegal' a-posteriori. Im not lawer but by my opinion this argumentation is wrong and irrelevant because the change of circumstances without your own action or omission don't produce automatically any illegality
For fulfill the GPL conditions, thus, its suficient to give a link to any Debian or Gentoo stock of sources.
On the other side, an explicite statement about this is not necessary when it's notorical. This can only avaliate a tribunal, but I believe it's notorical that there exists download places for source codes of programs which fall under the GPL - inclusive at universities - very easy to find, p.ex. googling.
Thus, I believe that Zenwalk don't act illegal -- although for more security, perhaps it would be good when they put into them download folder a README.SOURCES file giving some exampels where one can currently download sources.
2) But even so, this condition in the GPL - ANY KIND OF condition of one service depending on another service - according to my opinion violates the consummer's laws at least in the European Union, in Brazil, and probably in some other countries which follows the theory of objective damage of the delivered service or good, thus such clauses within the GPL are automatically null and irrelevant without to make invalid the other terms or the whole base of the free software divulgation.
93 • Linux nonsense (by Anon. on 2008-04-09 00:02:36 GMT from Norway)
83 • hawk on 2008-04-08 19:13:19 GMT from Germany, wrote:
"@80:
Read the GPL. Try to understand (needs brain). You can distribute object code if you supply a guarantee that you will provide source code if asked. Most distributions do not install source code by default but instead provide packages in their repo that contain the sources. By your definition half the distributions on DW are parasite."
By _any definition a lot more than half the number of Linux distros are parasites - and not only on GPL. Besides, some distros rebrand fully working good *open source* software, apparently based on some misconceived purist notion, and more often than not cripple the same software in the process.
There is no need to point out the specific perpetrators; they know who they are. However, these things should be pointed out in reviews, and DW could help improving attitudes by not listing distros which openly defy f.inst. GPL.
94 • GPL (by werner, cayenne on 2008-04-09 00:07:22 GMT from France)
W.r.t. GPL and the FSF, I still want to add the comment, that we have to be careful against be controlled from what side ever.
Also, it's very dangerous to transfer any (material or processual( right or procura to organizations like FSF. Even if today the intentions are good, whom warrants us that tomorrow they continue to be good and no-comercial ? Worser even, each owner of rights is potentially in the danger to be taken over. Saying formulations in the GPL or any other reason gives right for any company Mc$ process the FSF, and that company wins, and FSF loose all rights to that company -- inclusive rights what we cessed to FSF w.r.t. our software ...
95 • GPL, again (by werner, cayenne on 2008-04-09 00:19:31 GMT from France)
And I want to repeat a next argument.
Saying, a server has plenty distros (like its normal for universities). Why, then, there should be kept for each of them a new copy of the sources ??? This is a waste of space.
For the argument of openness sufficient is just 1 place where people can inspect and/or download the sources. More is only necessary by reasons like bandwidth for many download requests, if so.
And, again, even recognizing this, the FSF could not heal the ilegitimity of connection of different services according to the consummers legislation. Why I mention always this ?? Exactly because I'm against ANY forced control, no matter if from the one side or from the other.
96 • What Distros should do when a versions life comes to an end (by No OS is perfect on 2008-04-09 03:25:37 GMT from Australia)
Hello Everyone,
In this weeks new Mandriva is stopping support for Mandriva 2007.
This reminded me of one area that Linux annoys me.
Say for example you have setup a PC with Mandriva, Mepis or any of the bigger distros out there and download with Synaptic all the extra packages you wanted and life has been great. Then when they release a new version of that distro, you discover that it doesn't work with your hardware as it did with the last version.
So you reinstall the older version and decide that you'll be happy to keep using that version for the next few years. Then suddenly your Hard Drive stuff up and you buy a new one, reinstall your beloved distro to discover that the repository for that old version is long gone and once again you go on the search for a replacement.
When I first started using Linux, I brought a double DVD with all of Debian's repository on it and that has turned out to be a goldmine for me. What I am suggesting is that Distro's like Mandriva, Mepis etc at the end of the life cycle for a version, put the last update of that versions repository on a double DVD and either sell it online or find someone to host it. What do other long suffering Distro User's think?
97 • Vector (by Landor on 2008-04-09 04:29:21 GMT from Canada)
When I gave Vector a spin I found many problems for a full release. A lot of them were recounted by various reviewers. Susan I believe was one of them, maybe not. I wondered how a distro could let something like this slide and then I found out about their commercial interests, and it seemed (to me at the least) that the commerical sales were something they focused on. I instantly thought of what many conclude SUSE or Redhat to be doing, using their opensource project as a testbed or field for their commerical product.
Now I see they are givng people a "taste" of their latest version before the "Deluxe" version is distributed. I think it's going to be interesting to see if a public version ends up like the others, very buggy and very broken at points while the commercial is grande' . Time will tell. I personally don't doubt it though.
Oh, and ty Anti for the reply last week, and also I agree with your reply to my post last week 100% Dbrion.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
98 • @65 : try suomi... as a remedy for ill assimilated ideology... (by dbrion on 2008-04-09 05:32:30 GMT from France)
"werner, I suggested in February that you read the GPL faq. You obviously didn't.
http://fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html
Or maybe you did read it but forgot the second part of my suggestion which was: "understand". Please do that now.
"
You tried english, I tried french, but, even with the most parasitic, beyond any caricature professional of social minima (just a matter of skills), no hope is lost ...
99 • Hi Landor: Good software producers/vendors do not hide their sources.. (by dbrion on 2008-04-09 05:57:20 GMT from France)
"SUSE or Redhat to be doing, using their opensource project as a testbed or field for their commerical product.
"
for (o)suze, I do not know:
OTOH, with Redhat's clones (whiteboxen, for my colleagues : RH is not nitpicking with sources as they have real skills... but they will be shifting to centos some year) my colleagues are very satisfied (no failures in 4 yrs) .... and, if things get difficult/serious (developpment + a little IT playing are not strategical), my boss will buy RH (for simple things, a serious clone is enough for testing and demonstrating the quality..., else, buying the original is used as an insurance)
100 • Re: Yugo, comment #45 (by Donnie Berkholz on 2008-04-09 07:23:43 GMT from United States)
Yugo,
Did you notice that on the bug, one of the Gentoo developers pointed out that your "security issue" is not an issue at all, because redirects were already disabled?
I'm sorry I couldn't deal with your problem more quickly. As I said, I'm busy, and you are not my #1 priority in life.
101 • RE: 91 (it took less than 30 seconds for me to locate the Zenwalk sources) (by Béranger on 2008-04-09 08:35:16 GMT from Romania)
> it took less than 30 seconds for me to locate the Zenwalk sources.
1. The source tree is not complete yet.
2. While the source tree for zenwalk-5.0 seems to be practically complete, the GPL requires the availability for at least 3 years, so the previous versions are still infringing!
3. They did not have the right attitude! Calling me a troll is idiot -- it was not me the guy who wrote the GPL!!!
The superior attitude of the Zenwalk development team ("you don't need the source packages, go upstream for them"), as well as serious management problems (they were the last known distro to patch the vmsplice() kernel exploit; their lead developer also considers the version of their package manager that comes with ZW 5.0 as "obsolete" and points the users to the "snapshot" version, which is lacking some features) disqualifies Zenwalk.
102 • GPL Compliance (by Chris Hildebrandt on 2008-04-09 08:56:31 GMT from Austria)
Complying to the GPL is actually not that difficult, if you are a distributor and willing to do so. Have a look at how we do it at sidux ftp://debian.tu-bs.de/project/sidux/release/SOURCES - with every release a complete tarball with ALL sources is includes. We do so with every release, and we are just a small community project with 4-5 releases a year in 2 architectures.
And no, just linking to existing 3rd party servers is not enough, as you have no control over them. Our all own personal opinions do not count here, they do not count in legal cases. If we rely on the GPL and want our code be protected by it, we also need to follow it ourselves when it comes to other people code.
Greetings,
Chris
103 • 89 Adam (by Eve on 2008-04-09 09:30:53 GMT from United States)
Oh there you are. Come have a bite of this apple. :D
104 • GPL (by Christophe on 2008-04-09 09:35:30 GMT from France)
I did'nt know GPL was a church and Richard Stallman his Guru !!!!
At your burial day, Brothers, we will read the GPL ... Rest in Peace, Brothers...
105 • RE 104 : A l'amateur de plaisanteries faciles .... (by Anonymous on 2008-04-09 09:47:27 GMT from France)
Monsieur
Avez vous déjà essayé de vous débrouiller avec du source fermé? Professionnellement? Ca peut être abominable, pendant des mois ... et mener à des licenciements... En source ouvert, on peut dépanner / améliorer la même chose en une heure... Ce n'est pas une question de religion, mais d'efficacité et de bon sens....
Votre expérience avec l'integrisme est interessante:
* qu'est ce qui vous a poussé à vous lancer, inconsidérément, dans cette aventure (alors qu'il y a des listes pour l'éviter)?
* L'écran rétrécit-il lorsque vous le présentez à une femme?
* Si vous pensez au conjoint de votre voisin(e), est ce que des pierres sortent de votre ordinateur?
* Si vous utilisez un logiciel volé, votre clavier est il coupé?
* etes vous incité à dynamiter des cliniques pratiquant l'avortement, au nom du respect de la vie?
OTOH, I admire (and sometimes use, when in great need ) the work of the Debian project, and of its fair derivatives...
106 • no comment (by Christophe on 2008-04-09 10:08:35 GMT from France)
Does anybody knows the translation of "ne pas confondre la fin et les moyens" ...
What I tried to translate by "GPL is a way to protect OS not an aim itself !"
Sorry Anonymous@105 for your "screen" becoming smaller when you show it to a woman...
My jokes are easy, yours are questionnable...
107 • 87, 90, 101, 102 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-09 10:11:58 GMT from United States)
@87: The exchange took place right after the release of Zenwalk 5. I don't have the link, but their forums are not particularly active, you should be able to find it easily. Apparently the author of post 101 was the one that posted the original message there.
@90: I think Beranger's response clarified the problem, and post 102 is from someone who should know about the (lack of) difficulty in complying.
108 • Mandriva 2008 Spring (by Duhnonymous on 2008-04-09 11:20:09 GMT from United States)
You might want to check this out:
http://www.mandriva.com/enterprise/en/company/press/mandriva-presents-its-latest-distribution-mandriva-linux-2008-spring
109 • @108 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-04-09 11:29:21 GMT from United Kingdom)
It may not have escaped your notice that that press release is...really bad. I'm going to get it revised. Sigh.
110 • @ # 77 and @ # 89 (by Eddie Wilson on 2008-04-09 11:39:57 GMT from United States)
@ 77- Yes I can read and I'm ok as long as I take my medication. Really I find it in poor taste to make statements like # 69 and a person shouldn't even get worked up by a statement like that. Why even worry about it Mr. Anonymous? The guy's from Australia not the U.S.
@ 89- I'm sorry for getting your name wrong Adam. I'll be more careful in the future.
111 • no.# 82, "solid" choice of words (by Susan on 2008-04-09 12:53:56 GMT from United States)
Yeah, I know what you mean. That was edit from my original "okay." I actually agonized over that one word for as long as my deadline allowed.
I decided on solid because only GIMPShop and IceWeasel crashed, and you can't really hold ndiswrapper against a distro. I had hoped the installer problem was just due to my checking install on /root partition instead of the normal default. But since my review, I've seen these installer issues are widespread, going back to development versions, and not fixed in 3.1.
So, yeah, solid may have been a bit optimistic. But it didn't crash out and CompizFusion was very stable and usable even with my mere 512 MB ram. Although I guess those are secondary if folks can't get it installed.
I guess I should have stuck with my "okay." Sorry. I guess I messed that one up maybe.
Thanks,
Susan
112 • #106 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-09 14:45:01 GMT from United States)
"ne pas confondre la fin et les moyens"
--
"Do not confuse means and ends"
113 • Congratulations, Adam, on the new 2008 Spring release! (by JohnF on 2008-04-09 14:45:11 GMT from United States)
Even though I'm a PCLOS user, I've always been a fan of Mandriva (along with many PCLOS users), and I'm happy to see they've followed up with a strong release in Spring 2008. Especially with the Eee PC support, which I think I'll check out once I get an Eee!! ;)
114 • No subject (by Christophe on 2008-04-09 15:30:47 GMT from France)
thank you @116 ;-)
115 • errata (by Christophe on 2008-04-09 15:31:44 GMT from France)
thank you @112
116 • Re: #102, #101 (by hawk on 2008-04-09 16:25:06 GMT from Germany)
@102:
You are obviously doing a good job in assuring gpl compliance - congratulations. This might be indeed a viable way for Zenwalk as well. (This doesnt mean I think they are violating the gpl but they would be on the extra-safe side of the law). Butthis is up to the devs to decide.
@101(Beranger)
You do not have to use Zenwalk (though you are very welcome to do so). You have been quite active in the ZW forums and more than one forum member got the impressions that you got quite a high blood pressure sometimes. (As I do as well - admittedly).
I guess if you volunteer to maintain a source repo or implement a scheme along 102 your help would be welcome.
117 • RE #113 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-09 17:17:23 GMT from United States)
Is it going to ask for a registration key or do I have to wait for Freespire to check it out.
118 • GPL & Zenwalk (by John Grubb on 2008-04-09 17:29:11 GMT from United States)
I wonder why all this talk regarding GPL and Zenwalk?
What started it to flow. So much debte this issue regarding GPL.
libdvdcss and/or Wine probably violates Intellectual property as well.
119 • @ 118 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-09 17:40:33 GMT from Canada)
Yes, but violating that kind of intellectual property is a good thing.
The problem with Zenwalk is that they don't share the solutions they find while they use other people's solutions. They fix stuff and they keep it secret.
120 • Re 119 Correct me if I am wrong... (by dbrion on 2008-04-09 17:52:07 GMT from France)
" They fix stuff and they keep it secret.
"
You cannot proof it..... (even if software writers can suspect it , and, on the long term, this mere suspicion might become a nuisance w/r users).
Zenwalk started ca 4 yrs ago, when disk storage was more expensive than to day... OTOH, Sidux (say) started ca 2yrs ago, with cheaper repos... and could get/keep good(IMO) habits... (acquiring habits of having code (i.e the downstream version + modifs?) coherent with source might be sometimes unpleasant, though useful....) This seems a more innocent explanation....
121 • Cor 120: hope it is the last cor. (by Anonymous on 2008-04-09 18:16:24 GMT from France)
s/ source/ shipped binaries/ .....
122 • @ 120 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-09 18:19:59 GMT from Canada)
You might be right or not, I might be right or not, we both might be right or not in the same time. Only the guys at Zenwalk know. But the question marks are here to stay until they fix this issue.
123 • Re 122 I agree; I might be even righter than now if I substituted (by dbrion on 2008-04-09 18:25:57 GMT from France)
s/downstream/upstream/.
Anyhow, my explanation is kinder, though people can be exasperated enough ( linking rational demands to blood pressure!!!!) to find your explanation likelier....
124 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-04-09 18:53:33 GMT from Canada)
Mandriva is out. Not many posts about it. How about discussing how good is the latest Mandriva?
125 • Re 124 Can you download and test faster than your shadow? (by lucky luke on 2008-04-09 18:58:58 GMT from France)
I tested an alpha (no trafic jams) version some time ago, and it was ... not that bad (as I am a poor tester, I did not find defects). If she has no regressions, it will be very fine... and Linux Identity Kit will sell it in the railways stations, I ll buy a spring for one of my friends (it is very nice to come out in the true year and season).
126 • Ref Post 124 (by adrian jones on 2008-04-09 19:01:16 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hello i would comment on how good mandriva is but it will be in about 16 hours after i have forked out for the powerpack i would at least expect to have a dedicated server to download from,ridiculous really but will have to wait.
regards
adrian
127 • Questions about Mandriva 2008.1 ISOs (by IMQ on 2008-04-09 19:30:16 GMT from United States)
Does anyone know what is mandriva-linux-free-2008-spring-mini-dual.iso? GNOME and KDE?
What languages are supported in mandriva-linux-one-2008-spring-KDE-asia-cdrom-i586.iso?
I also notice that not all web sites carry all ISOs.
Thanks
128 • RE: 127 clarification (by IMQ on 2008-04-09 19:32:06 GMT from United States)
When I said all web sites, I actually meant to say all mirror sites.
129 • 118 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-09 19:32:18 GMT from United States)
Wine is perfectly legal, at least no legitimate doubts have ever been raised. They've been very careful to avoid any problems.
libdvdcss is probably illegal in the US (though getting a conviction in court for someone using it to watch a legally purchased DVD would probably be difficult, and damages would not likely be large) but I'm not sure that there is an IP violation involved with that. Maybe there is, but I've not seen it discussed that way.
Zenwalk is clearly violating the GPL, and this is not in dispute, due to the problems Mepis dealt with not long ago.
130 • @ 127 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-09 19:45:19 GMT from Canada)
the mini edition installs IceWm I think.
Mandriva One Gnome and Mandriva One KDE install Gnome and KDE respectively. I would suggest you use Mandriva One for testing purposes only. Use the other editions to install on the hard drive. Because Mandriva One installer is very simple but not offering many choices. Using the DVD gives you a more flexible install.
Not all servers are ready at this point. Some editions are missing in some servers.
131 • RE: 130 (by IMQ on 2008-04-09 21:26:56 GMT from United States)
I don't think that's what the mini means. Also where does the dual come to play?
I am thinking it's probably an installation CD for both KDE and GNOME with very basic desktop components so the users can add whatever packages they want for their needs.
Anyway, I am just curious.
Today I downloaded, or should I say, rsynced the free DVD editions for both i586 and x86-64 along with the KDE/GNOME One CDs. It didn't take long for me to get them because I used rsync to keep the ISOs up to date since the Beta ISOs.
Rsync is a real time-and-bandwidth saver when ISOs are frequently updated.
132 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-04-09 23:27:49 GMT from Canada)
lets discuss how "good" the new mandriva release is .
firstly I download the mini dual iso , boot it up , select kde , and no other window managers plus the multimedia packages. Install completes , boot up - no kde!
okay i think , lets try the "one edition" . Installs fine . Get to the desktop - go to install some software and whoops , discover that for a few days NO ONE can install software because it hasnt been set up yet/mirrors arent ready.
once again not the year of the mandriva desktop - these are simple things to arrange when you have a release date.
133 • slitaz: memory problem (by werner, cayenne on 2008-04-09 23:45:51 GMT from France)
yesterday i had to fix a broken computer of people living over me, like me invasion into an HLM house. About 10 children, mother drugged, father in prison, exactly the profil on what I oriented my distro has to install automatical, however, them computer is old, had a small hard disc and only a CD (no) reader so that this wasn't possible. I gave slitaz a try.
The computer had 128 MB memory, some 32 used for the grafics. Using as live CD, some programs crashed reclaiming too few memory.
When I tried to install it, also the installer crashed reclaiming too few memory. That happened during several attempts. It wasnt possible install slitaz on this, also diminuish the shared memory ans trying all options.
At the end I installed Vector what I got through.
I suggest the slitaz man, to adopt the distro for small-memory computers, at least the installation routine and the use of the installed version. At least in principle, the distro has very good quality, and is adaptable to be used on older computers with few memory.
134 • Teenpup 2008 long term has been very good (by Teenpup 2008 is great! on 2008-04-10 03:22:42 GMT from Australia)
I been using teenpup 2008 since seeing it on Distrowatch and while it's not perfect, it is very usable every day for what I use it for. I tried for the first time to install a distro to USB stick and with teenpup it went smoothly as I followed the instructions and hoped for the best that it would work and it did. I didn't realize that teenpup would run even faster than my live CD on USB. I like now that I can save my work on the USB stick like I do on my Hard Drive. Linux is way cool!
135 • Mandriva 2008.1_Errata (by keep in mind on 2008-04-10 03:54:49 GMT from Australia)
http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/2008.1_Errata
Hardware issues
*Problems with Intel 3945ABG or 4965AGN wireless network hardware
Software issues
*Firefox crashes on sites containing Flash
*rpmdrake offers to set up repositories even when it has already been done
Not to mention xorg display issues I have had all through 2008 to 2008.1rc1 (gave up on rc2 and decided to wait for final release). I will report back on this once the "One" iso becomes available on my isp's server.
136 • @132, @135 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-04-10 07:39:26 GMT from United Kingdom)
135 - neither issue is general, i.e. most Intel adapters and most websites are fine. Setting up multiple repositories has no negative consequences either. The wireless and Flash issues are also not Mandriva-specific, they will affect any distro using the current versions of (respectively) iwlwifi and Adobe Flash with PulseAudio and libflashsupport (which is most of the upcoming round of distributions). Please don't bash us just because we try to cover all likely problems.
132 - the mirror trees are up and populated. At least the secondary mirrors were populated before the release announcement was made, we checked this.
137 • 133 PC fixing (by Jesse James on 2008-04-10 10:34:39 GMT from France)
"werner, cayenne on 2008-04-09 23:45:51 GMT from France)
yesterday i had to fix a broken computer of people living over me, like me invasion into an HLM house. About 10 children, mother drugged, father in prison"
* Give the father a solid spoon, some nitroglycerine and a point and clicking instrument(Colt is OK)
* tell the father not to forget , when leaving jail, to carry away the directors' new PC....
138 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-04-10 12:01:03 GMT from Canada)
adam w - this morning i still cant set up the repositories for downloading software - Does anyone know how?
139 • @138 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-04-10 12:42:01 GMT from United Kingdom)
You can do it manually, use Easy URPMI (easyurpmi.zarb.org) to help. Many mirrors are synced now, but we're working on the mirror check system which is why they're not showing up in rpmdrake's list.
140 • Ubuntu 8.04.1 (by Duhnonymous on 2008-04-10 13:07:06 GMT from United States)
Looks like the point release for Hardy is scheduled for July 3.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
141 • GPL & Zenwalk (by Vukota on 2008-04-10 16:40:28 GMT from United States)
If you modify GPLed source code (what Zenwalk did!) and you distribute such modified code in binary form you are bound by GPL to provide (ONLY if requested by consumer!) source code for the modifications.
And no "consumer's law" will protect you from violating GPL, As a consumer, you DON'T have to receive (download or whatever else) source code if you do not want it (you only have a right to get it if you want it), but as a distributor you HAVE TO provide it to consumer if requested.
As far as I know know there is no "distributor's law" to protect distributor (not consumer) from breaching GPL license.
142 • Anybody seen Sidux? (by Adam on 2008-04-10 18:41:54 GMT from United States)
Maybe the release date should be updated to 04-XX...
143 • GPL / source code (by werner, cayenne on 2008-04-10 18:51:57 GMT from France)
Its correct that there is no special 'distributers' law. However, the customer's laws nowadays protect against all kinds of abuses which are not in the interest of the customers, no matter if directly related to them ir indirectly among the producers.
What in the past happened often, was, that the producers kept together and always against the interests of the consumer. Worser even, there were included even not-existing firmas to which would have falled all obligation to prestate and to them one would have to go too with reclamations. Resumed, a game of separation of the obligations toward the custumer, but of accumulations / transference of them rights against the producer, and contracts between the producers claimed to consummers which they cannot verify and which often dont exist. For any damage of the object or service on which 100 producing would have firmas participated, the fault always 'had' another of them than that one what the consumer processed (division of them obligations in infinitely small peaces), but at the same time all of these firmas would have transfered their right to each other of them to bill to the customer the whole price (accumulation of them rights). Because of this kind of practics, the modern theory of consummer's rights, more and more adapted, see an objective, fault-independent, collective/solidary responsibility for error-free, correct services of the conjoint of the producers in front of the consummer for the WHOLE product and all errors - not only for the infinity-small peace what he would have produced, with the option that after that one of them who was demanded by the consumer regress the other ones. And that's correct.
An obligation established by contracts among the producers (FSF, programmer, distro maintainer) to connect a service X with a delivering of any other service Y what the costumer dont want - no matter if he can easy separate and refuse it, but what p.ex. increases directly or indirectly the price, the complicateness for him to separate / obtain ONLY that part what he want, to hinder producers to deliver any parts of X to the custumer what he would want because they cannot provide Y what because of such contracts among them would be necessary/connected with X (AND THIS IS EXACTLY THE PROBLEM WITH THE GPL that distributers cannot deliver potentially user-interesting programs X because there is no source-code Y, ex: proprietary drivers), etc., is illegal against the consumer, and thus an ILLEGITIME PART OF THE PRODUCTION PROCESS. As a second reason, because of the danger of regression of any of the producer by the costumer, it's also considerable illegal by any of the producer, because he, in a regression against the other producers inclusive against the FSF, would have the position as consummer against the other producrs and can claim the same.
The wrong is simply, that the FSF want to force something what nobody want - neither the producers nor the customers. And hope we that one day they have to pay for this so expensive that they cannot afford it, declared as bancrupt, closed.
144 • @137 principles of SYS (by werner, cayenne on 2008-04-10 19:02:33 GMT from France)
The reason why I shortly mencioned the circumstances of living of these people, is THAT IN THEM HOUSE I AGAIN WAS CONFIRMED WITH MY EXPERIENCE/OBSERVATIONS, FILOSOFY AND PRINCIPLES what I used for my SYS distribution: a distro has to be installable and usable most simple possible. The situation of 80% of the simple population permits only this, without alternative. Academic people, or elefanteous config tools like on SuSE, are completely inadequade. And all distros or even Linux at all, until don't understanding this, have really no right and (for protection of this kind of simple people) we can be glad that they also have no chance to become desktop-usable.
It's on ocasions/places like this, when I'm always being confirmed with that my opinion.
However, this kind of people also have right to have a computer. And in fact, they have; normally they have any Windows computer what worked some time before it broke.
Or Linux and its programmies get this in them mind, or they will continue to stay outside forever, with their distro or even with them Linux-system at all. And there is nothing to discuss and have also no possibility to discuss.
During the installation of Vector, when I gone to toilet, these children of 2-14 years had already the fingers on the keyboard and I had to repeat the installation. This teached me, that on my SYS, I even will have to disable the keyboard during the installation.
145 • Mandriva One 2008 Spring KDE (by Anon. on 2008-04-10 22:59:12 GMT from Norway)
Just booted and had a quick glance at the new Mandriva One live. The bad thing first: some of the translation into Norwegian is equal to my French, i.e. ridiculously hopeless!
However, Norwegian settings, sound, Internet, Compiz/Fusion - unlike last autumn, it all now worked "out of the box" on my hardware. Some work must have been done under the hood. Very nice.
I recommend eerybody to test it. This is a *real* distro... :)
146 • Finally (by Brian Fraser on 2008-04-10 23:10:13 GMT from United States)
Finally found a decent distribution that does not freeze while typing on my old P3.
Tinyflux
I have been a debian fan for many years, in every flavor / distribution out there.
From knoppix to mepis to elive and many others.
Found Tinyflux, it screams on window opening, user friendly,
able to see and enter all drives,
I won't be heading back to debian................Ok ..when I get a new machine.
b.
147 • #146 try antiX (by anticapitalista on 2008-04-10 23:21:07 GMT from Greece)
Tinyflux is indeed a very nice distro.
Maybe you would like to try antiX-M7.2-preview1 out.
Based on Debian Testing plus MEPIS.
148 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-04-11 01:25:07 GMT from United States)
@anticapitalista: Any news about antiX-M7 on older machines (i.e., not i686)?
149 • anti x (by b on 2008-04-11 02:18:54 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the heads-up.
Took it for a spin.........not bad........still with some rough edges
worth keeping an eye on.
b.
150 • Re: GPL / source code (by fin on 2008-04-11 02:33:50 GMT from Finland)
#143 by werner:
[ ignorant rant snipped ]
You do not understand the GPL. Your brain unconciously twists the GPL into something that you can understand. Therefore, you think you understand the GPL.
But you don't.
151 • Mandriva 2008.1 (by timodor on 2008-04-11 04:05:59 GMT from United States)
Downloaded Mandriva One KDE yesterday. Am running it now on my Inspiron B130. Outside of the usual issues with setting up my wireless (I have a Broadcom 4318 chip, unfortunately), I only noticed a few rough edges. Upon initial setup, Mandriva would hang when I tried to recycle my user account. PCLinuxOS, Ubuntu, Mint, OpenSuse, etc, would either just accept my old account without question, or would ask me if I wanted to reuse it. Since I didn't want to change my login name and password, I renamed my old user folder, set up Mandriva with my preferred user name, then copied my files into the new folder -- a lot of unnecessary rigmarole. The welcome screens were in French, although I had selected English. Also, when I set up the system clock, I was given no option for choosing the time zone, only the country. I had to reset the clock to my local time zone after installation.
In spite of these initial annoyances, I have been impressed with this distro. Easyurpmi makes it incredibly easy to set up the repositories. All I had to do was go to the website and click on a couple of buttons. Everything was done automatically from there. The new theme is very nice. The scattered cubes on the right side of the wallpaper change color periodically, Having the ability to change resolution through KRandR is convenient; it works well with Compiz, but is disabled when using Metisse. All the usual software is installed by default. Overall, Mandriva seems to run fast on my laptop, which only has 512 megs of ram and a Celeron processor. Right now, I plan on keeping Mandriva as my preferred system.
152 • #151 Mandriva 2008.1 (by Jack Strow on 2008-04-11 05:47:43 GMT from Netherlands)
Just to comment over timodor's experience with MDV 2008.1.
I've downloaded both gnome and kde ONE version and started to test both of them in 3 different computers (that, I should add, are rather known for being a pain in the ass to install): a compaq presario, a sony vaio and a HP pavillion 64.
I must say I never experienced such a clean, quick and effortless installation of any operating system during my unfortunately long career of OS tester (that's what I do for a living) and deployer.
3D, multimedia, wireless, ntfs partitions, other unix/linux installation.. everything was configured properly and effortlessly
I eneded up with all 3 systems up and running straight off the live cd in 5 minutes + 20 minutes for the installation process....
Up to now I'm really impressed with the quality of this Mandriva release.
Goig to buy the Powerpack right now.
--------------------------------------
PS: still fighting with Vista UE and its solid 80Mb of hardware drivers I just downloaded off vaio site to at least being able to configure my display settings...a nightmare
153 • RE 133 : Normal linuxen can be used by normal people (by Billy THE Kid on 2008-04-11 09:19:22 GMT from France)
"10 children, mother drugged, father in prison, exactly the profil on what I oriented my distro has to install automatical"
Does one need to
a) send his father in jail,
b) drug his mother and
c) be helped by 10 pple to NOT install (though it was "EXACTLY the profil") Your "distro'?
("so that this wasn't possible." What a LOL!)
What happens when it not exactly THE profil?
You really should understand things ... and give W98 a try on this type of computers...
Now, I go back to my ukulele training course
154 • Zenwalk and the GPL (by Drugged Mother on 2008-04-11 10:45:27 GMT from Canada)
I asked Richard Stallman if Zenwalk was violating the GPL and he said no, as long as they use emacs.
155 • Mandriva 2008.1 rocks (by Gilbert From UK on 2008-04-11 11:55:22 GMT from United Kingdom)
I have to admit that my test on Mandriva 2008.1 is quite perfect.
My favorite OS is Opensuse then come Ubuntu & Freebsd.
But I wanted to give it a try on my new laptop Toshiba Equium P200-1IR which is one of the latest laptop from Toshiba.
I had some difficulties with opensuse 10.3 ad Ubuntu 8.04 beta to install the sound card Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) SMBus Controller (rev 03) and the Wireless card Atheros Communications, Inc. AR5006EG 802.11 b/g Wireless PCI Express Adapter.
For the sound card I had in the past to compile the alsa-driver-1.0.16.tar.bz2 (included lib and utils) to make the sound card work properly in Opensuse (it was already configured in Ubuntu).
For the wireless card AR5006EG, I had to install ndiswrapper to make it work on both OS. I don't really like to use ndiswrapper (because you can't use it for spoofing or wireless hacking purpose).
Madwifi source never worked. You always had this message: MadWifi: unable to attach hardware: 'Hardware revision not supported' (HAL status 13).
Anyway, now with Mandriva 2008.1, everything works perfectly.
The sound card is automatically configure (please disable "Enable Pulse Audio" & "Automatic routing from Alsa to Pulse Audio" in the sound config GUI if you want that Mplayer works properly for you with the alsa option).
For the wireless card, you have to install the madwifi.
One very important thing: You need to disable "Post scan detection" in the firewall part (security) in Mandrake Linux Control Center if you want that the Atheros card which use madwifi works properly. Madwifi doesn't support the option Port Scan detection of mandriva.
The only weakness part is that the startup is not faster as Ubuntu or Opensuse. But for the rest, mannn this Mandriva is the best Ever Mandriva version (mandrake was my first Linux version, 7 years ago. eh I am French).
This is an Os very stable, nothing to complain about. I will keep on this laptop (for the moment while waiting for Opensuse 11), but will still use Ubuntu and Opensuse on my Desktops.
Give Mandriva 2008.1 a try you won't regret it.
156 • #148 antiX (by anticapitalista on 2008-04-11 12:16:48 GMT from Greece)
#148 antiX-M7 uses 686 kernel so K5/K6/PI will not work.
157 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-04-11 12:48:46 GMT from United States)
Mandriva looks great. I finally got it to download this morning (got a blazing fast mirror, unlike yesterday).
I had to use Easy Urpmi to get the mirrors set up, now I am installing all of my needed software.
It is easier to find answers to questions using other distros, and I sometimes find the Mandriva approach unintuitive (check out the Ubuntu Guide or Arch Wiki - far better) but otherwise I really like Mandriva. I just don't feel comfortable with a rolling release on a work machine. Mandriva might be the one.
As one example, NFS can be set up by clicking a few buttons in the control center. All of the packages I need are available from the repos with recent versions. I'm going to try it in a VM for the next week and see how things go.
Strongly recommended if you are looking for a distro.
158 • RE 154 Zenwalk and emacs.... (by Calamity Jane on 2008-04-11 14:00:03 GMT from France)
"Zenwalk and the GPL (by Drugged Mother on 2008-04-11 10:45:27 GMT from Canada)
I asked Richard Stallman if Zenwalk was violating the GPL and he said no, as long as they use emacs."
Oh my poor friend,
As Zenwalk has the "one app per function" filosofy (as they spell it out in -I_hope_not_french_for_ever, independance can lead to responsability) Guyanan speech) and as they use vi -at least when they can, see later-.... (x)emacs is not likely to be supported.
This can be comforted by DW's carefully kept tables....
And, if you try to compile emacs by yourself, how will you do (their terminal seems very, very weird, at least when I VMplay/qemulate)??....
159 • Re: 148 antix (by saul on 2008-04-11 14:47:07 GMT from United States)
Antix runs great on my PII 266 with 60mb of ram. At first I didn't think it would work, since as far as I know antix only has a graphical install. But though the install took a long time, but it worked fine.
I appreciate the flexibility of the package system (synaptic) in antix compared to dsl or puppy (which are both great, but a little more awkward for adding new packages). I was able to install full Chinese language support and all of the other packages I need with no hassles at all. Thanks anticapitalista!
160 • Linux XP (by airdrik on 2008-04-11 15:08:46 GMT from United States)
It's been a while since the last release of Linux XP, and taking a look at the screenshots, it looks really sharp (if you don't mind the fact that they are ripping the Vista interface look/feel, while still using gnu/linux standards and tools underneath). No surprise that they are charging for it (easy migration from windows, run windows programs/games--cedega? crossover? or some other homegrown? doesn't specify so probably the later), but if it shows to be a solid distribution, it will definitely be worth it (at least for people migrating from the windows world).
I might be inclined to try it, but I will probably just stick with PCLOS (When's 2008 coming out anyway) or Mandriva 2008.1 (another solid release from the looks of things).
161 • Anti-X versions (by DrDOS on 2008-04-11 16:20:50 GMT from United States)
For older machines just get the 6.5 version, or even earlier. I've got it running on AMD K-6's with VIA chipsets just fine. Yes, and pclos TinyFlux is good on older machines. Another on is Nimblex which can be installed in the live mode, even beside another OS but it has a somewhat newer kernel.
162 • SLAX V.6.0.5 (by SlakOff on 2008-04-11 20:13:06 GMT from United States)
Slax Update! Slax 6.0.5. Slax keeps getting better and better. Enjoy!
163 • Linux XP (by Hawkeye52 on 2008-04-11 20:18:49 GMT from United States)
It seems that although capitalism is alive and well in Russia, our Linux distro-writing Russian brothers have failed to take a good look at the lack of success in a 'pay as you go' economic model for their target audience.
With Linspire and Zandros teetering on oblivion, and distros such as Mandriva and Elive limping along, there must be a lesson in there somewhere. All the top desktop distros are 'donation only', thank you very much!
The money to be made in linux is in the server market, and then income from the support and training that goes along with using their desktop products on top of the more lucrative server business.
It's no real skin off my nose, since I was purely curious. About four years ago, I took off on a dead run away from Microsoft, its economic model, its look, and its buggy software. I haven't stopped running. I just don't understand where they are coming from.
Best wishes, Linux XP, but I have serious doubts about your strategy.
164 • to Fawkeye52 (by corneliu on 2008-04-11 20:30:49 GMT from Canada)
If you see Mandriva limping, you most likely need to see an ophthalmologist. Mandriva is free of charge. The paid edition contains the same stuff as the free edition plus a few more things (Cedega, Fluendo, etc) that nobody can distribute for free. Other than that Mandriva is free. The free edition can do everything the paid edition can do. What is your problem?
165 • REF# 163 • Linux XP by Hawkeye52 (by John Grubb on 2008-04-11 21:28:55 GMT from United States)
Hawkeye52, I agree with your comment. Any paid Linux distro usually goes by the wayside. I donate to the ones I use the most. I too would like to run away from Windows, but I'm having trouble doing so. So tied in to some needed software. Not the Photoshop vs. gimp stuff. I would shoose Gimp by the way. It's more like financial software. And yes,I know about Wine, and I want to GET AWAY from Microsoft and keep an attached umbillacord. Also some of the font nouance I like better under Windows. Maybe its the True Type font that I like, not sure. I really like the idea of "free" software.
166 • Slax v6.0.5 -> v6.0.6 (by Jim Beaming on 2008-04-11 21:34:18 GMT from United States)
Here is the Change log for SLAX v6.0.5:
6.0.5
- fixed alsa mixer settings when booting Slax on several different computers with changes enabled
- some slik:// fixes. Two things were needed 1) httpfs was modified to stop refusing O_RWRO in the open() call, and 2) also losetup is now monitored in linux live scripts and if error is returned, losetup -r is tried afterwards. Note, losetup -r is available in Slackware since util-linux-ng were added.
- upgraded to Slackware current again, which fixes some bugs in glibc.
- reordered the installed Slackware packages to prevent some gtk+2 problems
Also noted:
Just for the information, next version will be 6.0.6 and it will be released next week, the only change should be recompiled KDE (to fix libFLAC.7 dependency, as there is already libFLAC.8 in Slax 6.0.5, I didn't notice that).
So wait until next week to download Slax version 6.0.6 and you will be all set!
167 • 159 • Re: 148 antix (by saul) (by anticapitalista on 2008-04-11 22:21:31 GMT from Greece)
#159 "Antix runs great on my PII 266 with 60mb of ram. At first I didn't think it would work, since as far as I know antix only has a graphical install. But though the install took a long time, but it worked fine.
I appreciate the flexibility of the package system (synaptic) in antix compared to dsl or puppy (which are both great, but a little more awkward for adding new packages). I was able to install full Chinese language support and all of the other packages I need with no hassles at all. Thanks anticapitalista!"
You're welcome Saul! Which version are you using?
Have fun with antiX.
168 • Linux XP (by Anonymous on 2008-04-11 22:37:48 GMT from United States)
Unless they have changed their ways I'd stay clear.
The 2006 version would make you rebuy every time your hardware changes. It phones home on every boot to make sure just like m$. A big pain if you swap in and out your network card on your laptop. It was about ten us dollars to register but I think now it is fourty. The 2006 version was Fedora Core 3/Gnome and only suported russian and english.
Their repository had very few applications/drivers and just now they are getting applications like open office by default.
169 • Fedora 9 Preview is (should be) coming out soon! (by Maybe Reason for Online Surge on 2008-04-12 01:49:42 GMT from Australia)
Currently Active Users: 10422 (248 members and 10174 guests)
http://forums.fedoraforum.org
170 • Current Ubuntu Forum Stats (by For Comparison on 2008-04-12 02:50:45 GMT from Australia)
Ubuntu Forums Statistics
Threads: 732,412, Posts: 4,688,120, Members: 549,789, Active Members: 67,032
Currently Active Users: 6760 (621 members and 6139 guests)
Its time for other forum communities to display ACTIVE member stats, too!
171 • RE: 166 (by IMQ on 2008-04-12 02:55:37 GMT from United States)
Is there a way to update 6.0.4 to the up-coming 6.0.6 without downloading the whole ISO?
I downloaded the 6.0.4 but have not burnt the ISO to a CD because Slax has the tendency to update the just release ISO soon after. So I think I just wait a few weeks before tossing it on the CD.
And here we are. 6.0.5 and the soon to be 6.0.6 :)
Not a complaint, mind you. Just an observation of the "speedy release cycles"
;=)
172 • forums (by steve ballmer on 2008-04-12 03:08:41 GMT from Canada)
Hey guys,
Here are Windows' forums statistics:
Threads: 732,412,000 Posts: 4,688,120,000 Members: 549,789,000 Active Members: 67,032,000
Currently Active Users: 6760000 (621000 members and 6139000 guests)
173 • REF# 171 • RE: 166 by IMQ (by Jim Beaming on 2008-04-12 03:14:03 GMT from United States)
SLAX Updates...
The reason is they follow Slakware release. Their has been some activaty lately regarding Slackware. I'm not sure if their is a way to upgrade, but since the ISO is so small I would just re upload the ISO. I started uploading 604 until I realize that 605 is due out next week, so I put it off.
174 • New Sidux release (by Sidney on 2008-04-12 03:38:08 GMT from United States)
Since DW is slow these days to report release updates, I thought Sid fans
would like to know that the following release is available:
sidux-2008-01 "Νύξ" (nyx)
Go to http://sidux.com/ and read the details.
Here's their roadmap:
the sidux roadmap
sidux-2007-01 "Χάος" — released 2007-02-21 (chaos)
sidux-2007-02 "Τάρταρος" — released 2007-05-28 (tartaros)
sidux-2007-03.1 "Γαῖα" — released 2007-08-15 (gaia)
sidux-2007-04 "Ἔρως" —" — released 2007-11-21 (eros)
sidux-2007-04.5 "Christmas Special" — released 2007-12-26 (eros)
sidux-2008-01 "Νύξ" —" — March 2008 (nyx)
sidux-2008-02 "Έρεβος" — May 2008 (erevos)
sidux 2008-03 "Ωυρεα" — July 2008 (ourea)
sidux 2008-04 "Ποντος" — September/October 2008 (pontos)
175 • updates (by werner, cayenne on 2008-04-12 04:05:19 GMT from France)
@171: What you want ? When errors quickly are corrected, people reclaim; when not, they reclaim too ...
On my SYS distro, I made several times updates, often only not of the system itself but of progs at the side (f.ex. ob busybot in the installer and/or other auxil progs). The iso has 4482 MB. One can download that with rsync. Then one downloads only these few files which changed, even when this happenes insode an .iso. That's fast. That's what my mirrors doing too.
176 • No subject (by werner on 2008-04-12 04:06:58 GMT from France)
correction: ... inside an .iso
177 • RE: 174 • New Sidux release (by IMQ on 2008-04-12 04:08:25 GMT from United States)
Thanks for tip!
178 • No subject (by werner, cayenne on 2008-04-12 04:19:37 GMT from France)
@150: It may be that I dont understand the GPL, but I understand my consumer's rights, and it's that what count in the court when occurs any problem. The GPL and jesus-like types flipping around there may have their filosofy to what they want to force programmers and users. They also did important things, the open and free software is not only an informatics revolution but the beginning of an eceonomical and social revolution. However, in the same manner as fishing out 10 people dont give yu the right kill 1 person, so also they cannot use that to submit the users under them revolutinary idees. It's normal that people pick out just what's good for them and dont want to know about what's bad for them. In the point of the source-code, the FSF is simply wrong; at least the consumers normally dont want the source code, nor that the distributers are obligated to distribute it too because this have some negative side-effects for the users.
179 • corrections (by werner on 2008-04-12 04:22:25 GMT from France)
178, correction: ..flipping around in the FSF . .. , fishing out 10 people from the sea ...
180 • No subject (by werner on 2008-04-12 04:37:20 GMT from France)
@153: next time when i find in the pubel a still-working DVD reader, I give it them and install them my distro
But to staying objective, It are examples like this, where one see that Linux simply dont fit with the capacities of 90% of the population. How long time did it need, that, like in W$, one can see a video by just put in the DVD into the drive. Before hal/dbus came, how people which barely can write them name, would have gotten it through to go in the text-mode type in steady-steady: mount ... ?
Now there are still some other not-too-big problems what should be improved on Linux, that such people can use it.
As I said, the biggest problem is the total misunderstanding between the programmers on one-side (normally in academic ambient) and the biggest part of the population as potential users, and their conditions, on the other side.
You as a programmer think that these people have no right to use computer ????? They tell you something. Whom with this opinion is outside, are not this analphabets, but these programmers and them distros or Linux at all. All this simple people use computer, normaly with W$. Or you get through to being simple your distro, or you reclaim still in 100 years that the Linux desktop year isn't coming and not more than 0,5% of the computers/population want Linux. And this is correct so.
181 • Linux XP (by Tony on 2008-04-12 05:55:12 GMT from United States)
Just with my first impressions of Linux-XP I think it will be a good alternative for the work place that doesn't want to be tied in to Micro$oft for years to come. All that I just said was 'just' my impression since I never could get a download to ""actually"" finish.
Reading other poster's responses to Linux-XP, it does sound like Linux-XP does have some procedural issue to resolve as well.
The fact that Linux-XP looks similar to M$'s pride and joy means nothing to me, but if it will help 'noobs' transition that much more easily- so be it!!
182 • RE Among many, many others [177,179] and 171 and -line 2 short- (by dbrion on 2008-04-12 08:52:31 GMT from France)
"It's normal that people pick out just what's good for them and dont want to know about what's bad for them."
Has YOUR distro a mean to choose packages? Or is it just a huge, useless (unverified, badly supported) compressed image?
"It are examples like this, where one see that Linux simply dont fit with the capacities of 90% of the population. "
Are jailed fathers , drugged mothers and uncared children (cf 133,etc) ...90 % of the population?
You know, in the EEC, schools are gratis...
Could you try to be consistent (each new posts of yours makes the many, many other ridiculous because illogical)
DO you feel great to bash those ugly programmers, nasty engineers who contributed to ...99.999 % of what you put in your distro... (and likely, 100% of the useful part).
183 • cor 182subject (by Anonymous on 2008-04-12 08:55:53 GMT from France)
s:179:180: # Qui peut le plus peut le moins...
184 • I agree too, though it might be difficult (by dbrion1 on 2008-04-12 09:33:32 GMT from France)
"75 • Recovery Distros (by Jesse on 2008-04-08 15:24:21 GMT from Canada)
I agree with an above post that it would be nice to see some reviews of recovery/system rescue distros during th eslow periods. I often use distros like Knoppix or Clone Zilla"
FYI, Mandriva 2008.Spring (at least in an early version) tested the RAM as a GRUB option (unless my memory has issues...) and I bet many other distr do it... or link to RAM/disk utilities before installing (Linux Identity {Kits,Packs|???} , have often a printed how to install the CD they shipp, and one can use it to detect RAM/disks issues..
Some distrs have a "fail safe boot" entry (Mndrvs 2006.0 at least had, though it was not the best among Mndrvs.... they made huge progresses)
Kaella Knoppix (a french version of kaella, given to many schools boys/girls -do not know whether they used it-) was often used to fix lilos,... but now, I feel that ordinary distrs have anything one needs for simple maintenance (and one is accustomed to their ergonomy)
It would be very difficult to review a recovery distr in realistic conditions, and not that nice for the reviewer (does(s)he needs to break {her,his} PC to verify it works?). Perhaps, potemkining (qemu| VM player| etc) might help...
Yesterday, I feared that my graphic card was broken, on a getting old laptop. That reminded me that having a pure
text option
for rescuing is essential, though someone fixing PCs all day long has a right to claim more user-friendly, graphical tools (though ergonomy tastes might differ).
185 • naughty Sid tamed again ;-) (by freexenet on 2008-04-12 09:38:34 GMT from Germany)
my favorite Distribution:
"sidux is a full featured Debian sid based live CD with a special focus on hard disk installations, a clean upgrade path within sid and additional hard- and software support. The ISO is completely based on Debian sid, enriched and stabilized with sidux' own packages and scripts."
sidux is Debian hot & spicy :-)
the nicest Debian.
186 • No subject (by fin on 2008-04-12 10:15:23 GMT from Finland)
@178
It may be that you understand your consumer's rights. But since you do not understand the GPL you create straw-man arguments.
Just stop and think! If the GPL conflicted with the consumer laws, do you really think that Microsoft's lawers (or others) would not have noticed?
Please, no more straw-man arguments.
187 • Antix (by b on 2008-04-12 11:38:36 GMT from United States)
I really spoke to soon,
Antix is really worth a second deeper look.
Bravo (anticapitalista)
b.
188 • No subject (by werner, cayenne on 2008-04-12 14:08:45 GMT from France)
@182: On all distros come programs pre-selected by the distributer, of which some one user, others another user will not use.
1) However, source code is generally useless to put inside any distribution and inside distro CDs. 99% of the users dont use them at all. Worser even, 90% of the distros nowadays come without the kernel source or even without the headers so that you nor could use them. Whom has suficient knowledge to compile progs himself, also know where to download them from the project page. And do this because there normally you find a newer version than on distro CDs. Thus, one can say clearly, that distribute sources together with distros is useful for nobody.
2) What binary programs you put or not put into your distro, is not obligated / forced by the GPL. Instead of generally useless things like sources, here you can decide that you fill your DVD with at least potentially useful-for-the-users programs.
3) Your critics about the form of my SYS distro is irrelevant, because it's the same with all distros, especially with live CDs where you get a pre-installed system too.
@186: Of course they may know it, and visibly they desrespect the GPL. Probably until now had no court case, but when so, very likely this would be reclaimed there too.
On the other hand, I dont say that the GPL in its whole is invalid. I only refer me to the source code obligation, and I have the opinion that at least this item of the GPL is invalid. This means, this will be relevant [ony] when there have an action of a consumer; of a distributor (which in relation to all other participants of the production process is consumer in turn), or of a consumer organization either against a distributor or against the FSF for abusive terms in the licence. I dont see what M$ have to do with that, at least so long they dont make directly an own distro and would become interested or would have the need to process the FSF in the said sense.
189 • @170 - ubuntu inflated forum statistics (by anonymous on 2008-04-12 14:26:50 GMT from United States)
The Ubuntu forum statistics were designed to boost their numbers so as to create the perception of popularity from the beginning. This allowed the user forum to establish critical mass when at first only paid Canonical "grass roots" employees were posting. This was the strategy to gain marketshare over then dominate Mandriva. This is called "Grass Roots Marketing".
Other companies forums use different and less biased estimates towards their numbers.
People posting to Distrowatch as Fanboys may also be paid shills for Canonical (how can know). Thus, your comments are about as unbiased as the Ubuntu forum statistics, but they do serve to promote canonicals product and marketshare. Good work Canonical. Linux marketshare domination, future user base monetization, etc, etc...
So, until an independent market research study is done by someone not paid by Canonical or associated with the Ubuntu Volunteer Fanboy Users Group, these statistics are worthless.
190 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-04-12 14:56:31 GMT from Finland)
@188
"On the other hand, I dont say that the GPL in its whole is invalid. I only refer me to the source code obligation, and I have the opinion that at least this item of the GPL is invalid."
The DISTRIBUTORS are obligated to provide the source code.
The CONSUMERS
191 • No subject (by fin on 2008-04-12 15:06:24 GMT from Finland)
@188
"On the other hand, I dont say that the GPL in its whole is invalid. I only refer me to the source code obligation, and I have the opinion that at least this item of the GPL is invalid."
The DISTRIBUTORS are obligated to provide the source code.
The CONSUMERS do not have to ask for the source code.
You seem to be arguing that if the source is included in a distro, the consumer should be able to force the distributor to remove it.
[The system should require a name before accepting a post so that accidental hits on the enter key would be eliminated.]
192 • RE 188 There was Fool's Day, now it is the Fools Year.... (by dbrion on 2008-04-12 15:27:17 GMT from France)
"Your critics about the form of my SYS distro is irrelevant, because it's the same with all distros,"
It is not the form, it is the content (if you know what is inside : copying and zipping is not that intellectually stimulating but can lead to huge lies...)
What about mandriva, suse, debian, (PC)BSD(among many others, where one can choose packages while and after installing).
Is it a surprise that these are the distros YOU bashed in january 2008.
"However, source code is generally useless to put inside any distribution and inside distro CDs."
So are :
a) text processors for illiterate (this is the audience you ongoingly and ongoingly claim: perhaps they should learn to read before buying anything...),
b) music players for deaf people (and, the more I read your "posts", the more I get deaf to your inconsistent, making itself utterly ridiculous way of "reasoning"),
c) and pictures viewers for blind ones...
Should the CONSUMER (case freely copied) ask for removal?
Then, any distr could be put ... on a floppy disk...
193 • GPL (by werner , in Cayenne on 2008-04-12 17:54:58 GMT from France)
@191: No, the distributers simply dont need to put the source. When the FSF think that's wrong, let them process. a) Beginning this, this will have the result that more and more distros / developers put their progs under the GPL or even ban GPL-licensed programs from them distro b) On such a process against the GPL, plenty firmas inclusive M$ would be interested to assist to the person
@192: In the future I dont respond longer on troll contributions.
About live CDs, no need to discus, here you can select to install it as a whole or not at all. HOWEVER, THAT IS A PORELY TECNICAL QUESTION OF MAKE THE INSTALLATION MOST EASY. In opposite, the obligation of the sources by the GPL is not a tecnical question but a more filosofical, of the opinion of the FSF that to each program 'have to be' added the source code because they want it in that manner, no matter if it makes sense for the user. This is a desrespect for the wish and freedom of the user by 'principal' considerations, not by tecnical.
On package-oriented distros, the user has more freedom even, decide during the installation exactly what he want and what not.
However, the package-oriented installation is not good for the beginner. Besides he still don't know what's the sense of each program/package and thus could not decide good, this kind of instalation is more complicated, needs more time, and is not good for beginners.
I for my SYS distro opted for the 1st kind of instalation. It's not a live CD, however has expressively the intention to set up most easy, most fast, most simple a good working Linux instalation. And from the neighbours which made circulate very quickly the install DVDs, and users which downloaded it and mailed me, I know that this goal was full successful. Within 10-30 Min and more easy than with any other distro, one get set up a big installation appr. 2x more applications than f.ex. Sabayon.
It's correct that on live-CDs and also on my SYS here the user get programs which I pre-selected. But this I did according to the probably most interesting progs for the most users, i.e. in THE PRESUMED INTEREST AND UTILITY FOR THE USERS, NOT BECAUSE BY ANY OWN FILOSOFY I OR FSF WANT TO FORCE THE USERS TO CERTAIN PROGS WHICH 99% OF THE USERS DONT USE NOR WANT, such like source-code. This is a big diference.
194 • DreamLinux (by werner, cayenne on 2008-04-12 17:57:45 GMT from France)
I downloaded and tested DreamLinux, about which here they write so bad. I cannot find nothing wrong, at least on my computer its working normally.
195 • mandriva (by frank on 2008-04-12 18:21:09 GMT from United States)
mandriva spring is perfect!! thank you to all de developers :-)
196 • Re 167 antix on pII 266 (by saul on 2008-04-12 18:59:32 GMT from United States)
Anticapitalista: I'm using the Spartacus edition (and I appreciate your naming scheme, too!)
197 • Mandriva Spring (by a1b1 on 2008-04-12 20:10:17 GMT from United States)
Been running a few betas of it (one version). Installed the Free version (3cd), no problems. Much better than 08 Fall on my system.
198 • Foresight (by arch-lover on 2008-04-12 21:15:24 GMT from United States)
Anyone here tried Foresight Linux before? I've read a couple of reviews on it in the last week or so, and it's piqued my interest - just wondering if any fellow distro-watchers have given it a spin before - it def. looks interesting for a GNOME freak like myself, and I love rolling distros...
199 • GPL (by fin on 2008-04-12 21:34:06 GMT from Finland)
@193 by werner:
"No, the distributers simply dont need to put the source."
I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean that the distributor
1) should not be allowed to include the source code in a distro, or
2) should not have to provide the source code when asked for it?
200 • GPL (by fin on 2008-04-12 22:21:51 GMT from Finland)
@193 by werner:
"- - the obligation of the sources by the GPL is not a tecnical question but a more filosofical, of the opinion of the FSF that to each program 'have to be' added the source code because they want it in that manner, no matter if it makes sense for the user."
Are you saying that the GPL requires the distributor to include the source code and that the user cannot get the program if he does not want the source code?
In other words, are you saying that if a user gets a GPL'd program without the source code, either the distributor or the user violates the GPL?
201 • "200 / 199 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-04-12 23:46:06 GMT from United Kingdom)
The GPL requires that the source code *either* be included with the binary, *or* that the distributor of the binary make a declaration (and, of course, follow it up) that it will provide the source code, within a reasonable time and at no charge aside from a reasonable one to cover the cost of duplication, to anyone to whom it distributes the binary. The receiver of the binary has no obligation to also receive the source, but they have the *right* to request and receive it if they desire.
202 • No subject (by fin on 2008-04-13 00:23:19 GMT from Finland)
@201 (and others who feel the need to say something)
Please be patient and do not interfere in the discussion between werner and me. I am only interested on werner's answers.
203 • @202 (by DrDOS on 2008-04-13 01:08:24 GMT from United States)
Then just pay attention to what Werner says.
204 • re 202 (by wow on 2008-04-13 01:20:15 GMT from United States)
Then why don't you just email each other directly if you're going to be a jerk about it?
205 • anybody has tried minix 3? (by anonymous on 2008-04-13 03:02:52 GMT from Canada)
Hi,
has anybody ever tried minix 3? I am looking for some feedback/reviews on minix 3 before I give it a try.
thanks
206 • @202 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-04-13 10:08:25 GMT from United Kingdom)
As DrDOS says, if this is intended to be a private discussion, have it in a private way. This is a public discussion thread.
207 • RE 201 Thanks for clarifying common sense thruths (by dbrion on 2008-04-13 13:38:05 GMT from France)
Though delirious but sooo funny posts discredit their Author's, Who is not likely, if He is consistent which what He wrote here (in NaN / Infinite posts) , to declare He will make source avalaible....
though He has/had no scruples using it or their results...
If you wanted to be very very kind to werner, you should explain Him what common sense or (incl) truth are (not ill understood caricature of bazaar ideology) in German or Portuguese (with -alph order - English or French, His Majesty seems pathologically pathetically hopeless....)
NB Sorry for the bazaaris, who are (at least, were a century ago) smart pragmatic sellers/buyers.
208 • 199-201, GPL (by werner, cayenne on 2008-04-13 14:27:40 GMT from France)
@201: This is only when you read the half of the GPL documents, f.ex. the GPL FAQ. At the beginning is wroten, that the distributor either puts together the source with the binary, or he write a promession to deliver the source to anybody whom ask for it. More forewards, however, you can read that it's sufficient, too, that the distributor can indicate f.ex. an *own* server where one can download the source; it would not be sufficient an not-own server because there would no garanty that in 20 years or so it's still existing.
This is so as the FSF want or the GPL determines. However, from the consumer's law in the most countries it's irrelevant.
According to my opinion, by consumer's laws, the co-producer cannot be forced neither to deliver nor to make disponivel the source. This is an illegal connection of a service A with a service B. The FSF/GPL cannot violate law, otherwhise it have to be forbidden as an illegal organization. On the other side, being invalid some clausulas of the licence, this dont mean that the whole license is invalid; for who has not the responsibility for the invalidity (i.e. consumers, distributers) the remaining part is valid according to them interests.
According to my opinion, any distributor of any program simply may distribute it without the binary. The FSF may process against that when they think they are correct. It's a big risk for programnmers to confess any rights to the FSF; then your program can be alienated. When (perhaps with assistence by M$ or any interest) the programmer/distributor wins against the FSF, and/or when the FSF get a billion penalty for connection of services (like the E.U. penalty against M$) and cannot pay, then all goods and rights/programs transfered to the FSF will be selled out cheap to any interest, and the firmas who adquire all rights of the extincted FSF become the owners of your programs, can modify/stop the GPL, etc
209 • minix, ref 205 (by werner, cayenne on 2008-04-13 14:31:57 GMT from France)
Before Linux came up, I used Minix. I tried it again few time ago when Minix 3 ames up. However, on several computers what I used, it gave problems with the hard disk driver. Probably the modern hard disks are too big or anyhow not supported.
On the other side, I feel the recent Minix 3 was not more than a propaganda show for the Minix man's new edition of his book, for sell it better, because short time after Minix 3 was abandonned. Better forget it !
210 • Com 145 translations (by dbrion on 2008-04-13 14:38:01 GMT from France)
"quick glance at the new Mandriva One live. The bad thing first: some of the translation into Norwegian is equal to my French, i.e. ridiculously hopeless!"
Though I use Mandriva, you wonot get the Pavlovian, ritual (Zenwalks this week *here* @116, PClone many times before) answer :
"
Why, oh nasty troll, do not you contribute by translating/ fixing it instead of writing blasphemies?
"
I am afraid translations are (one of) the weak points of linuxen, and, if one is not illiterate , this might be very annoying : for translating, one should, messeems
a) know the subject
b) know both languages
c) be ready to do something less interesting (and time consuming) than developping/enjoying
Another point : I would be very surprised, to day, if Mandriva's work were mostly french (sometimes Asiatic cars have a french CEO, and "french" wines have ... Japanese owners (at least,share holders) and extraCEE workers/grape pickers).
Most of the GPL comes from English natively speaking countries, the rational (at least, unbroken and fast in unpacking) ways of packaging seem to come from ... Brazil, in Mandriva's case (I almost forgot Canadas'RedHat!)...
211 • correction ref 208 (by werner on 2008-04-13 14:39:54 GMT from France)
correction: it's a big risk to CONCESS any rights to the FSF . Alias, equally material rights or processual rights in the same way. In any process or penalty, the FSF cannot pay and goes imediately bancrupt and all rights transfered to it can be taken by the government or by any adversary of a process, and because of this it's also probably (and correct) that on such a process by the GPL against any programmer/distributor he will be assisted by M$ or any other firma which wants to get cheap rights over a lot of before-free software before transfered to the GPL
212 • 208's gem contradicts tons of other (same Origin) "posts" (by Doc Holliday on 2008-04-13 14:44:47 GMT from France)
"According to my opinion, any distributor of any program simply may distribute it without the binary. "
Reread your previous inconsistent (cough) posts, and you ll notice you are getting more and more (cough, cough) inconsistent and ridiculous.
213 • 211 Explanation needed (by Long Nose Kate on 2008-04-13 14:52:43 GMT from France)
"material rights or processual rights i"
Could you, please, give an
a) objective
b) rational definition of these grandiloquent notions?
Just to know whether you understand *yourself*
Or better, go to bed?
214 • Stop GPL Talk Please (by GeorgePaulLongfellow on 2008-04-13 16:17:22 GMT from United States)
This GPL nonsense is getting REAL old already. Why don't you guys email each other and leave the rest of us out of the loop. You are impressing ONEONE here byt yourselves.
Very arrogant to ask others to not respond.
@203 response! Right on!
215 • No subject (by Anon. on 2008-04-13 16:17:51 GMT from Norway)
In #210, dbrion on 2008-04-13 14:38:01 GMT from France wrote:
Though I use Mandriva, you wonot get the Pavlovian, ritual (Zenwalks this week *here* @116, PClone many times before) answer :
"
Why, oh nasty troll, do not you contribute by translating/ fixing it instead of writing blasphemies?
"
I am afraid translations are (one of) the weak points of linuxen, and, if one is not illiterate , this might be very annoying : for translating, one should, messeems
a) know the subject
b) know both languages
c) be ready to do something less interesting (and time consuming) than developping/enjoying"
Agreed. Thanks for refraining from a pavlovian response, which may be a first... ;)
I don't use Mandriva, but I consider it to be one of a handful of serious all-round distros. As for translations, Mandriva shines here too, in offering so many choices of language, but I wanted to point out that *some* of the translation into Norwegian is below acceptable quality. This is not a very big deal and certainly no show-stopper, but it isn't exactly a promotional help either...
Besides, I had to criticise _something, and that was what I found...
216 • @215 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-04-13 16:58:19 GMT from United Kingdom)
I'm sure translation corrections would be welcomed by the volunteers who handle the translations :). http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Development/Tasks/Translating . Basically I'd suggest signing up for the translation mailing lists, and then submitting what you consider to be wrong, along with corrections. If you could help out by doing that, it'd be much appreciated. Thanks!
217 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-04-13 18:43:14 GMT from United States)
Now I'm really impressed with Mandriva. I installed from the DVD without a desktop environment. I got the best darn Window Maker implementation I've ever seen.
I wish there were a miniature version of Mandriva available, like 200 MB, for older machines in that WM edition. I'm even going to try it on a really old machine (9 years old, 300 Mhz).
It's awesome. I did not expect this from Mandriva.
(In other news, I've been playing with KDE 4. It's a good start - almost to the alpha stage. They really screwed themselves when they pretended this is a "release". They're going to turn off a lot of potential users.)
218 • @216 - Re: Translation (by Anon. on 2008-04-13 18:44:52 GMT from Norway)
OK - guess I asked for it. I shall see.
219 • @ 217 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-13 21:37:42 GMT from Canada)
There is a mini CD Mandriva released for 2008.0
I think the mini CD for 2008.1 will be ready soon.
You can use only the first CD from the three CD set for 2008.1 which is already available on the mirrors
220 • GPL (by werner on 2008-04-13 22:47:06 GMT from France)
@213: the material rights are own rights what the FSF can try to claim, or stipulate in the GPL; pocessual rights are rights for the GPL assist, intervent, or conduce a process on behalf or anyhow for the copyright owner / licensed. Both is dangerous, because when the FSF get processed and becomes bancrupt, the adversary can adquire this rights of the FSF on GPLed software.
Ex: saying Novell would have rights w.r.t. Linux, but Novell cannot fullfill them obligations from the contract with M$, then M$ can process Novell, and when they win, and Novell can't pay or is bancrupt, then M$ gets goods and rights of Novell inclusive Novell's rights over Linux or Unix. When the FSFD makes only a small mistake, get a process, loose, and cannot pay, then the adversary get all rights over GPLed software what the FSF adquired. This can be own material rights and/or copyrights, or only processual rights to conduct or assist processes of GPL licencees against thirds; both is bad when such rights fall in the hand of commercial firmas when/because the FSF is irresponsable.
221 • @219 @217 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-04-13 23:44:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
The mini-CD for 2008 Spring is already on most mirrors, actually. Filename mandriva-linux-free-2008-spring-mini-dual.iso . I don't know if it has WindowMaker, but you could easily install it from the repos after installation in any case.
We do try and have a wide range of WMs / DEs available. We have good packages for at least KDE, GNOME, Xfce, E16, E17, IceWM, Fluxbox, WindowMaker and EDE that I know of.
222 • @217 again (by Adam Williamson on 2008-04-13 23:46:49 GMT from United Kingdom)
BTW, Rick James, who used to help me out on the Mandriva forums, has 2008 running on a 486 with a Pentium Overdrive upgrade and 64MB of RAM. :) Anything lower than that and you need a specialist distro, but MDV can run reasonably well in anything with a Pentium class CPU and 128MB of RAM. 64MB is trickier as you have to do a text mode install, or install a very old version and upgrade incrementally.
223 • 221, 222 (by Anonymous on 2008-04-14 00:32:07 GMT from United States)
Thanks, didn't know any of that. I've _never_ heard anyone talk about using Mandriva on old machines. It's clear that significant effort has gone into providing an enjoyable experience for a variety of environments.
Mandriva is the only distro with a binary (up to date) version of all packages I need. Now I find that it is suitable for every machine I own. I'm quickly wondering why I should use anything else.
If it runs fast enough on the really old machine, it'll probably be my main distro.
Having used Vista a fair amount, and comparing it to Mandriva 2008.1, all I can say is that if Microsoft doesn't go bankrupt, capitalism doesn't work. We'll need to look for alternatives.
224 • Two SHORT questions to 220, plusxxxx plus .......... (by Anonymous on 2008-04-14 06:22:17 GMT from France)
And needing CONCISE answers........
"because when the FSF get processed and becomes bancrupt"
a) Will it happen?
YES/NO answer.
b) When?
4 digits for the year....
Not tons of Quatsch
Number of Comments: 224
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