| DistroWatch Weekly
|DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 230, 26 November 2007
Welcome to this year's 48th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! We don't often get a chance to report about the BSD part of our open source world, but last week brought an unusual number of interesting developments: a new beta release of FreeBSD 7.0, new live DVDs from RoFreeSBIE and TrueBSD, and even a promise of a real print BSD magazine! Is this increased activity among the BSD developers a sign of greater acceptance of their preferred operating system? In other news: openSUSE releases new bleeding-edge software packages for beta testing, KDE 4.0 RC1 draws mixed reaction in the developer community, sidux celebrates its first birthday, and Linux Mint branches out to develop user-friendly solutions for Debian GNU/Linux and Fedora. Finally, don't miss our lead story - a first look at the newly released Linux Mint 4.0. Happy reading!
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First look at Linux Mint 4.0 (by Susan Linton)
Linux Mint has been in development for less than 18 months, yet they have managed to create one of the most user-friendly and attractive desktop options available. With their fast-paced release cycle, it was difficult to keep up with all the changes at times and users were confronted with occasional breakage of one or more subsystems. However, developers have now stated that they will be slowing the release cycle as they have reached most of their goals. But how good is this current release?
Linux Mint is delivered as an installable live CD, allowing one to try it before they commit. Using "noapic" allowed the graphical interface to autostart, logging me into the GNOME desktop. One of the first things I noticed was the new color scheme. Replacing the usual green and blue pastels are shades of gray. This is particularly appealing during the boot process, but makes a nice desktop background as well.
My desktop resolution was optimized at 1280x800 using "nv" and my sound, touchpad, and add-on mouse worked out-of-the-box as well. CPUfreq, suspend, and hibernate worked. I didn't have a RJ45 cable attached to the Ethernet port on my test machine, an HP Pavilion DV6000, so I wasn't too surprized when no Internet connection was available. See, I have one of those wireless chips that isn't supported natively in Linux due to its proprietary nature.
NDISwrapper works for me most of the time and despite the documented drawbacks, I've always been fairly pleased with the performance. However, there are times with some Linux distributions in which it doesn't work, and more times than not I must resort to a command-line interface to configure and establish an Internet connection. It makes little difference to me personally as I'm a "command-line junkie" and find this, as well as most other tasks, much quicker and easier in a terminal emulator, but for the sake of my readers I always try to configure the Internet connection through a graphical utility first. I find this disappointing most of the time. That's why it is so exciting to run across the occasional distro that includes a graphical tool which actually works for this. Linux Mint is one such distro.
In the menu is an entry titled "Windows Wireless Drivers", which is an NDISwrapper installation tool. Click on it to open a configuration box. You'll need to click "Install New Driver" to navigate your way to your Windows driver. With the live CD you'll need to mount the Windows partition first, which can be accomplished with a mouse-click through the "Computer" listing. After install, this isn't necessary as all media are automounted upon boot or insertion. After clicking on your driver file, the installation and hardware detection is hidden in the background, but in a matter of milliseconds an entry will appear in the configuration box for your device. You can click "Configure Network" to set up things like static IP address, hostname, or DNS servers. Otherwise, you should be able to click on the networking applet in the system tray to choose your local network. If a Wireless Access Protection password is needed, it will pop open an input for that. In my case, after a few swirls of the applet indicator, the telltale connection strength bars appeared. The only caveat I must report is that I needed to put bcm43xx in the /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist file for the connection to be activated at boot.
Using the "Restricted Drivers" tool is another way in which many users might be able to use some devices requiring proprietary drivers. I often use this application to enable NVIDIA drivers when using an Ubuntu-based system. Its use is so easy. Just click the "Enable" checkbox and reboot. That's it.
Envy is another included method for installing proprietary graphic drivers for NVIDIA and ATI chips.
Linux Mint 4.0 - the GNOME desktop
(full image size: 478kB, screen resolution: 1280x800 pixels)
My proprietary graphic drivers were installed by yet a different means this time. As I was looking through the available options in the "Appearance" configuration, I saw the last tab was for "Visual Effects" provided by CompizFusion. At default my configuration was set to "None," as special effects aren't supported by the "nv" driver The other choices are "Normal" which provides some special effects, and "Extra" that apparently provides even more. When I clicked either of these latter options, a pop-up appeared informing me that 3D graphic drivers were needed to use those effects and offered to enable the NVIDIA accelerated graphic drivers. I was prompted to reboot the machine, but afterwards I was able to enjoy many nice visual effects with my NVIDIA GeForce Go 6150 chipset. I did experience some minor artifacting or redrawing glitches here and there within the window decorations and push buttons with some themes, but for the most part it functioned very well on my modest laptop hardware. The visual effects may be activated out-of-the-box with supported hardware, but for those requiring 3rd-party drivers, what could be easier?
Some other nice elements of the "Appearance" configuration include several nice wallpapers, about nine themes, and font and interface customizations. You can find "Appearance" either in the menu under "Preferences" or in the Control Center.
Most of the modules found in the menu under "Preferences" and "Administration" are conveniently included within the Control Center. From it you can adjust and configure about any setting available. Some of these include keyboard shortcuts, remote desktop, video settings, language, network, printing, and removable drives. You can even get hardware information, view system logs, and monitor system.
Another handy application available through the Control Center or menu is the APTonCD. This tool allows the user to save their downloaded packages onto a CD-ROM. Whether through ordinary package installation, system updates, or additional drivers, downloaded packages can be put onto a CD for use on another system or, in case of a re-install, to keep from having to download again. This is a particularly handy addition to Mint's line-up.
mintInstall is also available in the Control Center and menu. mintInstall is another handy dandy little tool reminiscent of Linspire's CNR or openSUSE's One-Click. Click on its icon to open a small window with the choices of either browsing the software portal or searching for a particular application. Either one will open a browser window at Linux Mint's software portal where you can click "Install Now" to easily install applications.
Some other smaller, more specialized tools include mintDesktop, mintAssistant, and "Main Menu". mintDesktop offers some customization of the desktop actions such as how to handle mounted partitions and media, how clicks open files, and network browsing. mintAssistant runs upon first boot of an installed system to set a root password if so desired and to disable terminal "Fortunes." It's also available in the Control Center if one wishes to change their original choices later. "Main Menu" allows one to edit mintMenu (the unique Linux Mint menu).
mintUpdate is the new software update tool. It includes an applet in the system tray that alerts the user to available updates. The update window lists the available updates and the "level" of stability. There were several updates available during my tests, and they were all Level 3. Levels run from 1 to 5 and increase as the danger of effecting system stability increases. Users can hide more risky levels if they choose. Another benefit of the new mintUpdate is that Mint developers will be thoroughly testing any updates before passing them on to users.
Synaptic is still included for basic package management. If your desired application isn't available through mintInstall, then it's likely to be listed within Synaptic.
Linux Mint still comes with a nice starter set of applications. Some of them include The GIMP, Firefox, Thunderbird, Pidgin and OpenOffice.org. Multimedia is handled through Amarok, Totem, and MPlayer. There are some nice accessories as well such as Calculator, Dictionary, and Tracker search tool. Mint is known for their out-of-the-box codec and plugin inclusion and this is still so. I could view any format of video locally or on the web.
I think this is one terrific release of Linux Mint. I experienced very few if any real glitches. All the necessities worked really well and the new or improved tools were impressive in their design and execution. The Linux Mint team is doing some wonderful things and this release reflects their efforts. It's about as close to care-free computing as I've experienced.
I can't help but worry about how some of their future plans may effect their desktop system. These include Fedora-based, 64-bit, and enterprise editions. I hope they don't spread themselves too thin to keep up the good quality work they are beginning to epitomize. At present they are producing a fantastic and original desktop with handy tools and highly desired functionality. This is truly their best release yet. It feels like they've reached the summit.
RoFreeSBIE and TrueBSD live DVDs, new openSUSE one-click packages, KDE 4 expectations, one year of sidux, Linux Mint "Fedora" edition
Let's start this week's news section with a handful of items from the BSD world. Following the successful release of PC-BSD 1.4, it seems that a number of other BSD developers are now also focusing on creating desktop solutions built on the stability and configurability of FreeBSD. The DesktopBSD project announced last week a new release candidate for its x86_64 edition, paving the way for the upcoming stable version 1.6. In the meantime, the developers of RoFreeSBIE released their latest product - a comprehensive desktop live DVD based on the latest FreeBSD 6.x code. The good BSD weekend was rounded up by an unexpected release announcement of TrueBSD 2.0-RC1, another excellent desktop live DVD with KDE, GNOME and Xfce, based on FreeBSD 7.x. Unfortunately, the TrueBSD developers are struggling to find a fast mirror to host the 1.9 GB ISO image, so if any of our readers can help with providing the bandwidth, please contact Alexey Sokolov (sokolov at truebsd dot org).
RoFreeSBIE 1.3 - an installable live DVD with the KDE desktop
(full image size: 1,397kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
Still on the subject of BSDs, another excellent piece of news has reached DistroWatch: there is a good chance that the second quarter of 2008 will see a launch of the first print magazine dedicated to the BSD family of operating systems. Dru Lavigne: "I've been approached by a publisher who will be launching a print BSD Magazine at the beginning of Q2/08. If you're interested in submitting an article, contact me and I'll put you in touch with the Product Manager. The writing guidelines follow." And what will the magazine focus on? "The subject scope in general is BSD system seen from the practical point of view. This encompasses: latest distro releases; security aspects in BSD; programming BSD applications; networking; BSD multimedia; the edges of open source: what is it about, interesting projects, new concepts and ideas and more."
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The openSUSE development team has released a number of "bleeding edge" applications for the current stable version of openSUSE, including the first release candidate for KDE 4.0, the fifth alpha of KOffice 2.0, and the first beta of Firefox 3.0: "The popular web browser have just released the first beta version of their next big release. Firefox 3 Beta 1 is a developer preview release of Mozilla's next generation Firefox browser and is being made available for testing purposes only. It includes a range of new, helpful and exciting features such as: Firefox's HTML engine, Gecko, being pushed to version 1.9, improving performance, stability, and thousands of outstanding issues; one click site info; easier password management; simplified add-on installation; new download manager..." As always, all these applications are available as part of openSUSE's one-click install.
What are your expectations from KDE 4.0? As was reported last week, openSUSE's Stephan Binner released the regular KDE Four Live CD, containing the first release candidate of KDE 4.0. Unusually, the announcement hinted at the author's frustration over the state of the latest KDE 4.0 code, suggesting that KDE 4.0 will be nowhere near prime time when it gets released later this year. However, Will Stephenson, a fellow KDE and openSUSE developer, argues that there are technical reasons for certain decisions and although KDE 4.0 might seem less functional and stable than KDE 3.5, it will lay foundations for delivering a better and more innovative desktop in the years to come: "A project has to compromise. Some do it by releasing never (see above). Others are equally conservative, but choose to compromise on features and innovation. KDE chooses as a project to accept that KDE 4.0 != KDE 3.5.8 - it's better in many ways, worse in some [very visible] others. Most of us feel that this will see acceptance and create enough momentum to make KDE 4.1 and its successors exceed KDE 3 and establish the basis for the next 10* years of the free software desktop."
* * * * *
Happy birthday, sidux! With the release of sidux 2007-04 last week, this increasingly popular Debian-based distribution completed its first year of existence: "I remember well the time about 15 months ago. We were all working with and for this other distribution and we were all frustrated. Some had already left the project. No release in sight, nobody knew what was going to happen, communication between team and project leader was more or less non-existent. We all saw a basically good project going down the drain, for some of us after 3 years of work invested and we could not do much about it." And the rest, as they say, is history. The team launched sidux, a KDE live CD showcasing the latest improvements to Debian GNU/Linux. They pick the most useful applications, stabilise them, add some nice artwork, and release the product as an easy-to-install live CD. A simple, but effective idea reflected by a rapidly growing number of sidux users!
sidux 2007-04 - showcasing the latest Debian "sid"
(full image size: 450kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
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Finally, a link to a recent blog post at Linux Mint. Besides the standard, Ubuntu-based edition and several community ones featuring alternative desktops, the developers of Linux Mint now consider branching out to embrace other distributions, including Debian GNU/Linux and Fedora: "Here is what we'll be looking at in the near future: Debian edition, Fedora edition, 64-bit Main edition. We started with the Debian edition. The first reason was to show that the technology we develop is distinct from the upstream components it sits on top of and that, the same way we can change Evolution to Thunderbird, we can change Ubuntu to Debian or to Fedora and still make a great desktop. The second reason is simply that we did try most alternative components and that our selection was driven and justified by the tests we made." An interesting idea. But what do our readers think? Should Linux Mint branch out to cover other distributions or should it concentrate on its original goal of making Ubuntu more user-friendly? Please discuss below.
|Released Last Week
Pardus Linux 2007.3
The Pardus development team has released Pardus Linux 2007.3, the third update to the stable 2007 code base: "Pardus Linux 2007.3 codenamed 'Lynx lynx' is out. Download 2007.3 version now! What's new> NetworkManager can detect your own wireless profiles and automatically switch to one of them; package manager is more polished now, many bugs in bug tracker have been fixed; Pardus installer 'YALI' now asks questions first, and then installs the system; KDE is updated to 3.5.8; all-in-one office suite OpenOffice.org is now version 2.3. K3b CD/DVD burner application is upgraded to 1.0.4." Visit the distribution's home page to read the release announcement.
Bluewhite64 Linux 12.0 "miniLive"
The developers of Bluewhite64 Linux, a Slackware-based distribution for 64-bit processors, have announced the availability of a new "miniLive" edition of their product: "I have the joy of announcing Bluewhite64 12.0 miniLive, a 257 MB live CD including the latest stable kernel version 184.108.40.206, X.Org 7.2, KDE 3.5.8, Mozilla Firefox web browser and Thunderbird email client. Key features: IA32 emulation (run 32-bit CLI and GUI programs); Mozilla Firefox 220.127.116.11 (Flash-ready) and Konqueror (Java-ready) web browsers; Pidgin 2.2.2 multi-protocol instant messaging client; GIMP 2.4.1 image editor; MPlayer 1.0.0rc2 movie player; KOffice 1.6.3; package manager - Swaret 1.6.3 (CLI) and QtSwaret 0.1.5.3 (GUI)." Read the release announcement and release notes for more details.
The sidux project has announced the release of sidux 2007-04, a KDE live and installation CD built from Debian's "sid" tree: "We are proud to announce the immediate availability of the sidux 2007-04 'Eros' release for amd64 and i686 systems, shipping in a 445 MB KDE lite and a 680 MB KDE full flavour. Our fourth release concentrates on X.Org 7.3, XRandR 1.2 and X detection related changes, and the new upstream kernel 2.6.23, combined with an updated mac80211 WLAN stack and drivers, which brought support for a number of additional WLAN cards. While the last two months have been pretty turbulent in Debian sid with X.Org 7.3 entering the scene, several library transitions and infrastructural problems, these issues seem to be mostly resolved for sidux and now allow to provide the best possible open source support for various graphics chipsets and advanced runtime configuration options." Read the comprehensive release notes for detailed information about the project's latest release.
Heiko Zuerker has announced the release of Devil-Linux 1.2.14, a live firewall and server oriented distribution. "Devil-Linux 1.2.14 is available for download. The changes include lots of program updates, added missing iptables modules, Linux kernel 18.104.22.168 and much more." Among the updated packages are Apache 2.2.6, BIND 9.4.1, Dovecot 1.0.3, OpenLDAP 2.3.38, OpenSSH 4.7p1, PHP 5.2.4, Postfix 2.4.6, PostgreSQL 8.2.4, Python 2.4.4, Samba 3.0.26a, SpamAssassin 3.2.3 and many base packages. Read the release announcement and changelog for more information.
Michael Creel has announced the release of ParallelKnoppix 2.8, a KNOPPIX-based live CD that allows setting up a cluster of machines for parallel processing using the LAM-MPI and/or MPICH implementations of MPI: "ParallelKnoppix v2.8 released." What's new? "v2.8 (64-bit only, use v2.7.1 for 32 -it CPUs); /home and /root are NFS exported, which makes it possible to add users; advanced users can mount a storage device at /home, for increased space and to save work between sessions; Linux kernel 22.214.171.124; Open MPI 1.2.4, Octave 2.9.14, SciPy 0.60, NumPy 126.96.36.199, Parallel Python 2.5rc, KDE 3.5.8; Cloop 2.0622 (thanks Klaus Knopper); Aufs cvs 17-10-07." Visit the project's home page to read the brief announcement and changelog.
Guadalinex, a project developing a localised Ubuntu-based Linux distribution for deployment in local government offices and schools in Andalucía, Spain, has announced the release of Guadalinex 4.1. Some of the most important new features include: improved compatibility with newer hardware thanks to the more up-to-date kernel; new version of OpenOffice.org (2.2) with support for electronic signatures; built-in support for 3G mobile devices from Vodafone y Movistar; improved accessibility for handicapped users thanks to Orca (2.19.4) and new voice recordings for Festival; new converter of data from Microsoft Access to OpenOffice.org Base databases; inclusion of AMIGU, a migration assistant for moving data, fonts and settings from Windows to Guadalinex; read/write support for NTFS partitions. Please read the release announcement (in Spanish) for further details.
Guadalinex 4.1 - a Spanish distribution based on Ubuntu 7.04
(full image size: 301kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
RoFreeSBIE 1.3 is a new release from the project developing an installable live DVD, based on the latest FreeBSD and designed for desktop use: "RoFreeSBIE 1.3 has been released. It is based on FreeBSD 6.3-PRERELEASE. It has improved start-up scripts, backup and restore scripts, and it also includes a unique feature - the option to activate and de-activate the NVIDIA drivers on the fly. Thanks to the DesktopBSD project, a new graphical installer has been added. The DVD includes wireless support even in live mode and all packages have been upgraded to the latest versions: X.Org 7.3, KDE 3.5.7, the latest NVIDIA drivers, and new scripts for mounting removable media. Since RoFreeSBIE 1.3RC4 many bugs have been corrected and additional features included." Visit the project's home page to read the full release announcement.
StartCom Enterprise Linux 4.0.5
StartCom has release an updated set of DVD images of StartCom Enterprise Linux 4, a distribution built from source packages for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4: "StartCom is pleased to announce the immediate availability of the updated release for the legacy AS-4.0.x series of StartCom Enterprise Linux. The sixth update release provides additionally supported and updated drivers, an updated kernel with new features (version 2.6.9-67), updated Samba (SMB file sharing), mirrored root support for Logical Volume Management (LVM) and updated GNU Compiler Collection (GCC). AS-4.0.5 supports the Xen hypervisor which allows for the running of multiple virtualized server instances on the hardware." Read the press release for further details.
Shift Linux 0.5
Shift Linux 0.5, a Debian-based live CD developed by the Neowin.net community, has been released: "Shift Linux is a Linux project that was created by the Neowin community. Based on Morphix Linux, Shift is Debian-based live CD; therefore it has access to all of the software and applications as other Debian distributions. Several editions of Shift Linux have been developed to produce for computers with lighter or more robust hardware configurations. We have produced Shift with Fluxbox as the predominant desktop manager for lower resource computers, and Shift with GNOME and KDE desktop managers, for heartier machines. Shift Linux 0.5 has all of the most commonly used packages that are available and is designed to be extremely fast as a live CD." Read the rest of the release announcement for more information.
Shift Linux 0.5 GNOME edition - the default desktop
(full image size: 203kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
|Upcoming Releases and Announcements
Summary of expected upcoming releases
On DistroWatch release announcements|
How does a distro release get announced on DistroWatch? Last week, several readers emailed to say that we missed the latest MEPIS release candidate - SimplyMEPIS 7.0 RC1. Some of these emails were quite angry; one reader wrote: "No wonder DistroWatch is losing credibility. It doesn't even try any more!" Another added: "You have missed the latest 2 releases of MEPIS. Since your coverage and the accompanying hits are based upon your subjective evaluation, I think we can safely dismiss your page as irrelevant." So what's the deal?
It's quite simple: for a distribution release to show up in the front-page news on DistroWatch, we need a release announcement - preferably with listing of changes or links to changelogs, release notes, etc. MEPIS has failed to deliver a descriptive release announcement on the last two occasions. Just take a look at them here: Beta6 and RC1. Both of them carry just one short sentence mentioning the changes and updates, while the rest is just standard sundry that gets added to every announcement. There are no changelogs, no release notes. As such, it's very hard to turn that lone meaningful sentence into a whole paragraph of news that can be published on DistroWatch! This is not a new rule - any release without a solid release announcement will only be mentioned in the "Latest Distributions" section (front page, left column) and that has been the DistroWatch policy for years.
For all the MEPIS fans who found it outrageous that their favourite distribution didn't make it to the headlines, here is our advice: don't email DistroWatch, email MEPIS. Offer help with release announcements and release notes. Donate to the project! Warren Woodford recently remarked that "I finally had to re-enter the workforce as a consultant in order to pay the bills. I can net more in two weeks of consulting, then in a year with MEPIS." His frustration is also evident from his comment in the latest issue of Linux Format (LXF100, Christmas 2007): "I don't ever see Linux replacing Microsoft." As a result, the project suffers. It is a popular distribution so it's a shame that some members of their user community direct their energy into writing nasty emails to DistroWatch than to helping their favourite project overcome the current difficulties!
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New distributions added to waiting list
- Minibuntu. Minibuntu is an Ubuntu-based live CD containing only the minimal set of software to make the system work.
- Ultumix. Ultumix is a new desktop Linux distribution based on PCLinuxOS.
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DistroWatch database summary
And this concludes the latest issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 3 December 2007.
|Linux Foundation Training
|Reader Comments • Jump to last comment
1 • Sidux (by sergeant on 2007-11-26 10:01:06 GMT from Kazakhstan) |
I have sidux at home at so far quite pleased. It's an alternative to Arch if one wants a light, fast and bleeding edge desktop, but doesn't have time to put all the bits together. And there are a lot more people who make DEB packages than Arch packages.
Arch is still lighter and faster, though.
2 • Mint Derivatives (by Janus on 2007-11-26 10:09:22 GMT from Germany)
This is a very interesting idea. I like the idea of Debian with the Mint-touch. Though many people will complain that with ubuntu there is already a more user-friendly approach to Debian I'm happy that the developers trie to spread their work so that other communities come to know them.
3 • Shift Linux 0.5 (by Joaquim Gil on 2007-11-26 10:09:29 GMT from Portugal)
Hummm... Neowin.Net guys are distributing a Linux flavor of their own?!
Although I have some reserves on this, it surely deserves a try. Just because it's Debian based, though.
4 • Debian & Fedora Edition (by Clem on 2007-11-26 10:10:48 GMT from Sweden)
Hi Susan, Ladislav,
Just a quick comment on Mint making Debian & Fedora editions. These are experiments for us to know how such systems would behave and to have a long term view on whether we could change bases if we ever had to or were willing to in the future, and how hard or easy this would be and what advantages/inconvenients we would be getting out of it.
Quite obviously we won't be maintaining 3 different bases at the same time. Our current base is Ubuntu, there is no plan to change that, but as mentioned on the blog we want to know more about the technical ties between Mint and Ubuntu and there's no better way for us but to experiment with other great alternative bases (our choice went on Fedora and Debian as we believed they were the best possible alternatives to Ubuntu to build on top of).
We've already started the Debian-Based ISO, it's live, it works fine, it's much faster than the Main Edition and being based on Debian Testing it gets a continuous flow of updates... it's also more vulnerable to upstream changes than Ubuntu-based Mint editions and as we're developping it we're finding out more about the specific challenges linked to each base.
So in brief, we will release a Debian-based ISO, and a Fedora-based ISO, but these are experiments and although they'll be usable, working fine and making some of geekier among our users happy they're not meant to be used as their main OS and we won't support them.
In a few months time after their release we'll give them another look and see how they behave and pass the test of time, how they manage to deal with updates and to follow both the Mint and their respective base tracks.. this will be the real test, and then we will have a clear picture of the pros and cons of being based on Ubuntu, Debian Testing and Fedora.
So will we jump from an Ubuntu base to Debian or Fedora? No. Not at the moment anyway. Do we want to find out why we're using Ubuntu rather than Debian/Fedora? Yes, this is precisely why we're making these 2 experiments.
We'll probably label our BETAs(if any) "ALPHA", and our stable release "BETA", just to stress out that fact. Have a lot of fun with these 2 but remember these are experiments.
5 • sidux+Arch (by wegface on 2007-11-26 10:23:46 GMT from United Kingdom)
Yes i agree with #1, sidux and arch are my fav 2 distros and have been for some time. Mint wants to branch out into other distros too? Has any other distro ever released one version as say debian and one as fedora? They must be bored!
6 • Sidux (by mika on 2007-11-26 10:33:30 GMT from Italy)
I love SIDUX....
vdr out of the box....
root consolle.....type init 3.....
then SMXI and enjoy the power of Debian!!!
Fantastic!!! I love this!!
7 • Mint (by Johannes Eva on 2007-11-26 10:33:44 GMT from Germany)
Great review of Linux Mint - as I have a quite old machine, i'm just missing some remarks on speed... Maybe i'll geve it a try anyway.
8 • Mint on Debian and/or Fedora (by William Barath on 2007-11-26 10:40:37 GMT from Canada)
I was surprised to read that anyone would find it shocking, concerning, or dismaying that any project which relies upon another would shift its base to the ultimate parent of that project. This isn't bad! This is good! If anything this means Mint will be more effective downstream, more effective overall, more meaningful to the planet. In the social world of OSS, this is nothing but brilliant.
I begin to wonder if the near-FUD was only to provoke reader feedback...?
Good journalism challenges us to inform ourselves. Shock is a good tool to that end, but becomes meaningless when it becomes an end to itself. I trust that we are not heading down that slippery slope, but I say it anyways, because the readers aren't the only ones who need to challenge themselves sometimes...
9 • Mint: expoloring Fedora and Debian (by KimTjik on 2007-11-26 10:41:23 GMT from Sweden)
If you have the resources and it doesn't drag developers down, I think it's a positive thing to evaluate your options. As Clem explains here the main interest at this moment is to see how a different base would affect the distribution. This shows that the Mint team isn't locked into a predetermined path.
I've no real experience of Mint besides installing it a couple of times to folks who asked for Linux; seems like most with a little Windows experience do find themselves at home pretty easily, and for me it was a good lazy alternative! I would definitely though check out a Fedora based Mint version, since I have great respect Fedora and it would be nice to see some more Fedora-based alternatives.
10 • Why I LOVE PCBSD 1.4 ... or NOW I can do WITHOUT MS ;) (by RogerP on 2007-11-26 10:54:10 GMT from Spain)
I knew I was in heaven ( well... not quite), when after installing PC BSD ( these days installing a BSD or Linux Distribution is as easy as M$ XP), I was asked if I wanted to install any of the pre-built offerings. WELL, to my surprise I was able to find wine (M$ environment emulator) so the one research/library I use that ONLY ran on M$ could be used without dual booting.
But there's MORE.. a patched version of IE for my everyday work that mandates my using ONLY IE 6.xx or 7. SKype is there as well. Now my ENTIRE home office operation can be run with BSD. Reliably. Seamlessly. Looks great ( not a priority), runs well and in the background. Without getting in my way. YES!!!
By the way I am telling ALL my customers about this solution. Cutting the M$ apronstings is a true relief!!!! I honestly salute the PS BSD team. You guys are truely great. Easy. Reliable. Safe.
11 • Sidux (by William Barath on 2007-11-26 10:58:17 GMT from Canada)
I've been pleased as punch with my Sidux install, which took me away from my previous SuSE 10.0OSS install which I was running on my laptop, as well as my Debian Sarge install which has been active on my desktop since I built it.
Sidux was the first distro that booted in a reasonable timeframe on my laptop, ie. under one minute. Okay, eMovix boots faster but it doesn't support all my hardware, nor is it a usable desktop OS. hehe. Anyhow, if you own an HP NX6125, this is the ticket for you. Everything works: 3D, suspend(s), card reader, wireless, and it runs circles around the WinXPPro it shipped with. Some manual config required, but that was with the original Sidux64 release. Today you may find it much easier.
I don't really believe in plugging any distro, but I will say this: for an "unstable" product, this is the most rock-solid platform I have run, besides Slackware, and that's not a fair comparison as this hardware is far flakier than the hardware I was running Slackware on, many years ago.
Other machines: my home file/network server is running SuSE 7.2 (and has been for some time ;-) and all my machines at work run assorted fedoras, depending on the time their applications were set up. When it comes to servers I subscribe strongly to the "if it ain't obsolete/incompatible, don't upgrade it." philosophy. Unless it's empty.
12 • Mint (by sergeant on 2007-11-26 11:03:46 GMT from Kazakhstan)
Last time I tried MInt, I got an impression that it's Ubuntu and a few runs of apt-get remove (stuff they found unnecessary), apt-get install (some proprietary stuff) plus there own theming. Pretty much the same PCL did to Mandriva. Not impressed.
Hope they'll be able to prove they are a distro of its own.
13 • Shift Linux (by Stag on 2007-11-26 12:10:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
Another distro to be avoided at all costs. Plenty of essential components either missing or not working. Too much material badly copied from other distros. Don't waste time on this one. Perhaps Ladislav could appoint a couple of trusted testers to give some of the more doubtful candidates the once over before allowing them to infiltrate his excellent column? Maybe he could introduce a (paid for) jobs advertisement section to defray his own costs and offer more suitable employment to unfortunates like this?
14 • If you live in a country where software patents are legally enforcable (by This can happen on 2007-11-26 12:15:58 GMT from Australia)
This is an automated email from the BigPond Files Request System. Your file request (for the file at http://alice.42-labs.de:8080/linuxmint/LinuxMint-4.0.iso, described as 'Linux Mint 4.0 Daryna - Live CD ISO') has been declined.
The file you submitted is currently unable to be mirrored due to restrictions that are detailed on the source website. The website maintainers or developers of the file that you have requested have information on their site that indicates that the redistribution of their files is not allowed.
The terms and conditions of use of this website that were referenced for this request are available from the following URL:
A relevant section from the site's terms and conditions is quoted below:
"Linux Mint respects the GPL and it also respects the copyrights and licenses of the proprietary software it distributes. However it uses technologies that have been patented in some parts of the World. Most countries do not recognize the legitimacy of software patents so for most of our users this is not a problem. But if you're unlucky and you live in a country where software patents are legally enforcable, you need a version of Linux Mint which is free of patented technologies, and this is what the Light Edition is about."
But they did provide the Mint Light edition.
15 • KDE4 is no surprise (by Andrew Cruickshank on 2007-11-26 12:17:49 GMT from Canada)
Despite all the insane hype about KDE4, the live CDs have shown me nothing but crashes, mere months before the release. It's nice to hear that the developers recognize this state of affairs.
16 • As much Ubuntu, Mint, PCLinuxOS or other trie still nothing... (by Robert on 2007-11-26 12:18:10 GMT from United Kingdom)
As I saw and tried almost all the distro that could be, I still dont get what I need. Now im talking about on the desktop part, all of the distro's have some flaws or deffects and non of them work properly, also here I wanna add one point, if there are companies like Connical, Redhat, Novell, Linspire and Xandros, why none of them came out with a proper desktop enviroment, because as sorry I am to say it, KDE and Gnome lacks for a lot of things and also lacks of proper stability, why this companies dont get together and create, or remaster based on KDE or on Gnome a proper desktop enviroment for Linux, anyway they ask for money most of them for they Linux products, why could they just do a new or proper desktop enviroment for Linux? You go to Xandros or Linspire, which lets say are desktop Linux OS's, but they suck big time, they are slow, have the same or almost the same bugs like the free linux distro's, so my questions is "WHY?". I do understand a distro like SimplyMEPIS, PCLinuxOS maybe even Ubuntu (lets say), that the stability its not the best, but for those distro's that you need to pay, why are you paying for something that is free?! And the money its almost the same amount as you would pay for a Windows license. At this point, if I need to go for a desktop os, I will go for Windows, even if I really would love to see a proper and stable Desktop Linux, but at the server part, Im always and forever with Linux (CentOS :))
Sorry if someone get pissed of on my comments, but I see it this way.
17 • RE 16: No I don't think many get pissed, but... (by KimTjik on 2007-11-26 12:34:37 GMT from Sweden)
... packages like desktop environments like KDE and Gnome develope according to its user-base. You as a user can make constructive suggestions if there's a feature you think is missing or there's some stability issues.
As for both current versions of Gnome, KDE and XFCE4 I still haven't seen any stability issues. The desktop environments I use or folks that I've helped migrate to Linux have never shown any signs of instability in many many years. Hence it would be interesting to hear more specifically what stability issues you talk about. Also try to specify what qualifies "proper desktop environment".
A Windows or Mac desktop might suck big time, and quite often, depending on the user. Many hidden "power-features" can be found in all, and probably more in *nix-systems due to its flexibility to be tweaked by the user. Sometimes it's just personal preferences. That's why I avoid Windows even at work - yes the network is otherwise totally Microsoft oriented - because I can't work as quickly in its desktop environment.
It all really depend on what kind of user you are. Are you a really fast code-master, then probably Ratpoisen or some similar keyboard oriented window manager. I'm not pissed, not a bit, but I do expect some more details before I even can get a picture about what you're talking about.
18 • You dont have to be pissed off :) (by Robert on 2007-11-26 12:54:10 GMT from United Kingdom)
Well let me put it simple, maybe it just me or my expiriance, but I own a dual-core p4 3.2ghz with an geforce 7300sle or something similar to that, so I wanted to setup openSUSE 10.3 with all the stuff, for the same idea as maybe you, get rig of Windows (and thats for real), so I set it up, everything world except my video card, getting the nvidia drivers from nvidia.com didnt work and the same thing happened with Fedora 8, so I went to SimplyMEPIS 7 RC1 or something like that, same thing, didnt work and the drivers eider, but I have to add that SimplyMEPIS 6.5 with Beryl works perfectly for example on my PC (weird huh?!).
OK so I got really pissed off and went on the web and got Sabayon (dont ever do this), I got it, burn it and installed it with all the packages about 10GB :). The 3d desktop worked from the very first time with compiz-fusion so I was happy, but also I wanted to remove some stuff and I had to uses emerge graphica version, which "SUCKS BIG TIME", it removes and it doesnt, depending on its wished also doesnt even give out errors why it couldnt remove the apps, so I have to do it from console which worked almost all the time :). Yeah as a reminder here, dont do Ctrl+Alt+F1 in Sabayon, if you dont want your desktop enviroment to crash.
There are a lot of iessue both in KDE and Gnome, sometime applications just crash without anything, and if this didnt happened to you, I would say good for you, but it did happene to me, maybe im doing something wrong.
Also an interesting idea is the Display configuration in KDE Control Center, for example NVIDIA Settings sees my monitor: 1440x900 at 75Hz, the strange part is KDE sees my monitor 1440x900 at 50Hz or 51Hz whats the deal?
There are also other problems which are too many in my opinion to put out here, right now honestly im trying to build my own distro, to see if i will be able to get rig of some of the bugs which I saw :)
Also about Windows, Im using it and I use XP SP2, and works like a charm, didnt crash not once since it runs, and I installed like almost 1 year ago, runs pretty fast and boots in about 20-30 seconds, I guess its pretty good, hugh?!
Anyway, this is my own opinion on desktop linux's, maybe I only had bad inconters with it (one year ago, my SimplyMEPIS or PCLinuxOS testing was briliant, I see the problems more now, then before).
Thx and bye!
19 • My favourite DWW ever! (by kanishka on 2007-11-26 12:58:37 GMT from Italy)
Wow, my 2 favourite Linux distros (Mint and Sidux) in the same DWW! :)
I suggest everyone to try Mint4.0; it is NOT "just Ubuntu with codecs", it is a distro with a distinct personality and very, very high usability. It provided me with the most flawless Linux experience so far, and by far (I'm an addicted distro-hopper). Though I still install many distros every month, Mint is the only one that never goes away, and it's my main OS. Besides technology, Mint has one distinct advantage: a community (and a leader) absolutely friendly, responsive and caring for your opinion. Take a look and you'll see. Don't dismiss Mint (and its community) as "another Ubuntu clone".
As for Sidux, just a comment: FAST!!!!!
20 • Mepis (by b wf on 2007-11-26 13:01:37 GMT from United States)
Works very well,
Tried Sidux, and was not completely satisfied.
Installed Mepis 7.0
very enjoyable, was able to handle an unstable system upgrade.
21 • @16; Robert, what are you complaining about? (by alanbcohen on 2007-11-26 13:02:20 GMT from United States)
Some specifics would be nice. No one can help solve problems if we don't know what you consider to be missing or wrong. What do you think KDE and Gnome lack? What are your stability problems? I have a KDE-based system that has been running consistently for over six months, including rolling updates via my package manager. I haven't noticed anything important missing from my desktop systems; what is missing to you?
22 • My question is what do you do with it?! (by Robert on 2007-11-26 13:16:55 GMT from United Kingdom)
I hope nobody understand's me wrong, I love linux and my favorites and Slackware and CentOS, Im just lets say unhappy with the graphical part of it, if i do a normal use of it, it works fine, for example VirutalBox, crashed?! at installing one virtual machine, ok that not necesary a big deal, maybe Im doing something wrong, my question is to you, how do you use your desktop enviroment? Only some office and web browseing? or more? How seriosly are you useing KDE and/or Gnome, and also I already wrong there a simple example about the screen refresh rate, so, I cant give all the details coz Im in work and my desktop is at home, but maybe later on, I would give you some more example.
23 • Mepis (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 13:22:16 GMT from United States)
Not to step on anyone's feet here, but...Mr. Woodford has done his best to turn away those who could contribute in a meaningful way his project. I've heard this from a lot of individuals who like Mepis and wanted to get involved...he wants to do it himself and take any revenues for himself...he has zero interest in having a community distribution...he wants to make money for himself, that's it.
If he wants to make money with open source software, he needs an open source-compatible business model.
It's also hard to justify donating a large amount of money to him alone when more than 99% of what is in his OS was done by others.
It's a shame that he can't spend all his time on Mepis, but that's because he doesn't know much about running a business, nothing more, nothing less.
24 • Crashes on Linux (by voislav on 2007-11-26 13:39:34 GMT from Canada)
What people often forget is that just because an application is included in a distro it's not part of KDE/Gnome/XFCE, so these guys have nothing to do with your applications crashing. A lot of applications that we use every day are in beta stage (just check the version number, anything below 100 is in beta), so crashing and bugs are part of the deal. I know that a lot of users want software that "just works" but this is not going to happen for some time (if ever). So just sit back and enjoy the ride and save/backup and do it often :)
25 • Question to Susan Linton re. Mint review (by Nanlee on 2007-11-26 13:41:26 GMT from Canada)
You said in your review about Mint Linux 4, the sound works on your laptop. Did try to plug in an ear-phone? When I did that the speaker on the laptop was still on. This is very annoying. This problem happens very often with Linux live CDs. Not only on my laptop but also on many desktops. And it happens to a vast majority of Linux distros. Quit often, a distro either not making any sound or making big sound even when there is ear-phone plugged in. I found so far, the only one (just one) distro that works properly with ear-phone is Open SUSE.
26 • RE • 22 PEBKAC (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 13:48:13 GMT from United States)
Sounds like someone needs to burn his disks at a slower speed. I used to get a lot of those funky errors too. Oh and verify! verify! VERIFY!!! You might want to check your rigs memory for any problems also.
You've used and configured Slackware proper from the ground up? I highly doubt that based on some of the comments you've made... Or do you just love slackware "BASED" live distros? If so, sorry buddy, not the same.
This is starting to sound like FUD to me....
27 • @24 - you are so right! (by Robert on 2007-11-26 13:48:28 GMT from United Kingdom)
I know what you mean, and you are right, I dont really need a desktop enviroment, if it would be my girlfriend, who likes Windows and she cant get used to Linux because of this "minor" issue :)
I will stay faitful to Linux, because its somekind of a crush on it, but Im doing that from text console, I love it and it works perfectly.
In rest, the bugs and problems should be solved, in my opinion, by this companies who ask money for this distro's, for example I have no idea how the hell Xandros, Redhat, Suse, Linspire can do what they do, take something that is perfectly free and make money on it, maybe they improved something, but they dont deserve sh*t. They should just say, if you need support you need to pay for it, if not then you can download anytime our linux distro, that should be the policy, license like Windows, like they are actually doing something, which actually is done by a big community for free, its wrong and bad and the community suffers because this companies make big or pretty big money on their backs.
Over and out, thx for hearing me out people, have a nice day!
28 • Simply MEPIS 7.0 RC1 (by Eduardo Baccelliere on 2007-11-26 13:48:36 GMT from Chile)
I have been a MEPIS user since version 3.3 and I was waiting the new release of MEPIS and was intrigated that it had taken so time. Regularly I search in Distrowatch news about MEPIS and Linux and I support that Ladislav wrote today. Excelent work Ladislav !
Well, I downloaded its Live CD and installed MEPIS 7.0 RC1 for the very first time on a Packard Bell laptop, alongside with Windows XP, thanks to GRUB and Gparted, utlity by which I could create 3 partitions (/, /home and swap) during the installation.
It recognized most of the hardware, notably 2 internal cards, ATI graphics card and Raltek wireless card. I connected the laptop to Internet with a home wireless network only giving the name of the network and WAP password. Bravo !!
And all in less than 30 minutes. Bravo !!
But failed to recognize the sound card.....And playing DVD.....And playing chess... Perhaps in the near future.
It was easy to integrate the laptop to a Windows home network using Samba and I could donwload files from a Windows server inmediately.
Waiting for MEPIS release, I also had tried Ubuntu 7.10, OpenSuse 10.3, Mint 4.0 on virtual machines in my desktop computer (not the laptop) with so,so results.
My conclusion is, the distribution to use depends on the hardware recognized and our needs of applications.
29 • Robert, I feel your pain (by Ubu Walker on 2007-11-26 13:50:53 GMT from United States)
As a linux user, I feel your pain. I find it heart-breaking that simple programs in the latest release in ubuntu like GAIM crash without warning and that Compiz makes my system freeze.
I don't know what you are trying to do with your system, but it seems to me that you are looking for something stable to work on that does not crash. Using Ubuntu's Long Term Service release might be the way to go. You might not get the latest cutting edge software, but at least you're work environment will be stable.
30 • Mint on Fedora (by Spike on 2007-11-26 13:58:00 GMT from United States)
A fedora based mint would rock.
31 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 14:02:25 GMT from United States)
Ultumix should not be included as a distribution here at distrowatch ahead of many other fine overlooked systems, nor is there new "release" any different from the previous!
Please remove it promptly!
32 • Reading Reviews (by Mellar on 2007-11-26 14:04:44 GMT from Norway)
It's always nice to see that someone has taken their time writing a review about a linux distro they've tried. But what I'm pretty fed up reading, is if it supports the writers hardware and wich GUI applications are available.
If I'm going to try another distro, I'm a lot more interested in other subjects than the distro finding drivers for my hardware automatically.
What I really want to read is something like Distrowatch has on its "Major Distributions" page. There I can read about pro, cons, some of the distros philosophy and what kind of users and tasks the distro suits. I want to do something more with my distribution than just installing it, right? When I try a distribution, it's a purpose behind it. I want see if this distribution really suits me better than the distro I'm allready using.
33 • How about a distro for non-distro hoppers? (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 14:07:52 GMT from United States)
With all the attention given to ease of installation, when will somebody focus on ease of upgrade? I *hate* reinstalling, it's always days (if not weeks) before everything is working the way it was. Every distro I've seen recommends clean installs as opposed to upgrades, and even if you cross your fingers and do the upgrades, you can't skip releases. What a hassle!
Since the distros don't seem interested, I'd love to see somebody like Mint manage this. Let me go from one Ubuntu LTS release to the next, or from CentOS4 to CentOS5, etc.
I'd settle for a tool that restored the system config following a reinstall. I just hate dealing with all the post-install details.
34 • (Deb+Fed)*Mint (by JGutsy on 2007-11-26 14:11:12 GMT from Belgium)
As long as they don't pull resources from their Ubuntu-based releases, I think it is a great idea that Mint would broaden its view.
Why don't they try it for a year or so, and then evaluate if they were able to deliver the quality they had in mind?
35 • MEPIS & Warren (by Graham on 2007-11-26 14:17:14 GMT from United Kingdom)
Unfortunately, Voislav's analysis is exactly right. Warren is a great developer, but he is tainted by the US obsession with $$$. I wrote to him at the start of his MEPIS work, when I was active myself in consultancy. I suggested that he had the wrong business model and that Klaus Knopper had the correct one, as did RedHat. It is not possible, nor moral(!), to expect to derive revenue from someone else's efforts unless your initials are WG. The payoff comes from the add-on services - consultancy, maybe mixed with a little teaching, Sadly it has taken him a long time to assimilate this simple lesson, but his endeavours will now be more secure from now on. Best of luck to him; he has a great product.
36 • You all are right! (by Robert on 2007-11-26 14:20:31 GMT from United Kingdom)
The truth is I would love to have a distro that can live for years without needing to reinstall or something similar, which as a desktop enviroment, and only one which works perfectly with all of the applications that I need and so on, but at this point, maybe we as users cant ask this from the linux community because its to much work, and we as users we cant ask comercial companies like Novell/Redhat/Mandriva/Conical/Xandros/Linspire/.../ because they dont care, so the solution, as I can see from each and every comment, is use what you have, dont use it if you dont like it or it doesnt work for you for "anykind" of reason and thats about it, which is bad, really bad.
I will dedicate my free time in the future, trying to develope or only modify a distro to my needs and maybe in the future to publish it too, I dont really know if I will succeed, but what can I say, at list Im trying :)
Also, Im gonna try out the lastes Mint version, it myth do something good.
Thx for all, Robert
37 • @33 Non-hoppers distro (by voislav on 2007-11-26 14:23:07 GMT from Canada)
Use separate partitions for root and home, that way you can "upgrade" by reinstalling on your root partition and leaving your home partition with all the settings and preferences intact. It works most of the time even when you change distros, some of the stuff might out of whack but it beats starting over every time.
38 • @33 Rolling Release distros vs. Reinstall Distros (by alanbcohen on 2007-11-26 14:27:59 GMT from United States)
Given your comment, I'd suggest you look at 'rolling release' instead of 'new release' distros. While all distros eventually require a fresh install as some underlying core needs to be upgraded, there are distros that are not generally reinstalled but rather upgraded via their package manager. I happen to prefer that and am using PCLOS, as I also prefer KDE, am a native English speaker (okay, New Jersey) and stopped hopping with it. There are others to suit your tastes.
39 • RE 38 "a distro for non-distro hoppers?" (by dbrion on 2007-11-26 14:46:16 GMT from France)
This would be a nice idea, and I thought (but I might be wrong) that Whiteboxen and Skolelinux might be adequate : my colleagues use ca 4 yrs old Whiteboxen (they do not have issues with keymqp/lqnguqge recognition; as it is a US clone of Redhat, you should not suffer either).
They NEVER upgraded (this is the simplest upgrade method, once one is satisfied....) and even me, who is conservative, was surprised (USB stuff??, music?? were neglected).
As Skolelinux is also intended for professional use, in zones where there one cannot always find reliable Internet connections, they seem to have made it as stable as possible : teachers are paid for teaching, not to repair upgrade mistakes (as progress is anything but monotone, upgrade can lead to regressions; it it is automatic, you can be sure somthing will be broken without any one to understand => that makes me very doubtful about rolling upgrades/releases).
In the case of preinstalled linuxen, or of veruy stable distributions, ease of installation becomes meaningless (if you change your distr every 6 months, and it takes 15 minutes, it is ...more time consuming than changing one's distr every 4 yrs, and it takes 45 minutes...).
40 • Distros and new laptops (by RC on 2007-11-26 14:49:32 GMT from United States)
I bought an HP DV9620 a few weeks ago and I have been trying to find a distro that would run on it. My usual favorites "PCLOS and Mint) wouldn't work along with *buntu's and numerous others. Apparently there is a new controller chip for the drives that causes older versions of the kernal to crash out and not be able to read the CD.
I initially tried Fedora and it was a nice distro with most things working, but only after hours of hunting down codecs and getting them installed. A Fedora Guy could have probably had it done in thirty minutes, but I am a newbie and using Fedora for the first time, so it was an ordeal. The killer though was the new BCM94311MSG wireless chip. I just could not get Fedora to work with it. In retrospect, my later discoveries may have led to a different result if I had known that info at the time, so not saying it won't work....I just didn't get it figured out.
Next I tried openSuse 10.3 because I read it was the most "laptop centric" distro. It did work well for what I tried and it did activate the chip after finally figuring out fwcutter, but it still wouldn't allow me to logon. I found out later that this was probably due to having my network ssid hidden, so it probably would have worked. I just really didn't want to use openSuse thought due to the MS thing and kept looking for an alternative.
Finally, MEPIS RC 1 came out last week and I decided to try the updated version to see if it worked. I was logging onto the internet within one minute after booting up. It does everything very well (other than my drives have inexplicably become unreadable...they show up, but show as having nothing on them!). I am hoping the final comes out soon so that I can move up to it. Also hoping the 2007.1 of PCLOS gets put out so I can try it.
The cam is the only major thing that I have not found a way of getting to work on the laptop. Hopefully that will get someones interest soon as many notebooks are coming with them these days.
It is a very nice notebook, but to be honest...double booting Vista is a pain is the wazoo. It took me quite a bit of research to find the best way to do it. As soon as I have a rock solid distro of linux on board I want to change to a single boot into linux and run XP in a virtual environment. Another challenge with all the options out there for that.
41 • Review of Mint (by Landor on 2007-11-26 14:49:45 GMT from Canada)
While I thought it was a fine review of Mint, which I must say I have hardly used, I do find one part a bit off the mark, but quite a margin.
"It feels like they've reached the summit."
A lot of people when measuring the success of distros here forget their other projects. Ubuntu and it's flavours are a good example. For whatever the reason Ubuntu is always a far better realease than say Kubuntu. With Mint I have to say this is exactly the same with a flavour carrying the Mint name, more to the point the KDE version.Second Last version of KDE Mint saw us with a problem with the installer and other flaws, which to my understanding were never fixed for that release, I may be wrong on that, but I think no. I also encountered a number of problems with the latest release of KDE Mint.
Mint is suppose to make Ubuntu more user friendly then why is this not the case with KDE/Kubuntu flavour of Mint? It basically just becomes a jacked clone of Kubuntu with even less functionality.
With that said, Mint is far from reaching the Summit until all paths have been properly traversed.
Keep your stick on the ice...
42 • sidux vs. kunbuntu (by Pedro on 2007-11-26 15:11:37 GMT from United States)
What difference is a user going to see from these? Both are Debian-based. Both come from Debian Sid. Both feature KDE. I sometimes get annoyed the way people act like there are all these radical differences that really matter (especially when it comes to Debian and the *buntus). Does anyone think Mint starting with Debian as an alternative was coincidental? If they really want to do something different they'd do something like an OpenBSD base.
43 • #42 (by RC on 2007-11-26 15:13:25 GMT from United States)
I would really like to see them do the Fedora base. A newbie friendly version of Fedora would be an asset in my mind.
44 • mint over another bases... (by raymundo d. flores s. on 2007-11-26 15:25:32 GMT from Mexico)
If purpose is learning nothing better than Debian...
But Debian stable, maybe not too flashy
but really production ready..
Maybe you could bring Debian to the mases.
Because, you know, Ubuntu IS NOT Debian
45 • @25 (by D Weaver on 2007-11-26 15:36:58 GMT from United States)
You do know that it's a matter of about two clicks of your mouse to enable headphone jack sense, right? It's always struck me as silly that it's not enabled by default, but it's hardly a big deal to change.
Been using Mint on my 3-year-old laptop since I discovered Mint, never had any issues (beyond a little minor configuration, like I say, which isn't an "issue" to me).
46 • @33 (upgrades versus reinstalls) (by Johnny Hughes on 2007-11-26 15:40:08 GMT from United States)
The problem is you can NOT expect to move from apache 2.0 to apache 2.2 have have it work.
Or move from openldap 2.2 to 2.3.
Or from mysql-3.23.58 to 5.0.22
Those THINGS require new configi files, new procedures, etc.
That is something that an administrator needs to do.
That is why it is much easier (and recommended) to do clean installs of CentOS if changing major versions.
It is NOT required to do those clean installs if moving in the same major version.
So ... from CentOS-3.8 to CentOS-4.5 requires a reinstall, as does CentOS-4.5 to CentOS-5.1, etc.
However, staying on CentOS-4.0 and upgrading to 4.1 (or even 4.0->4.5) does NOT require anything other than a "yum upgrade".
Where a fresh install is recommended, it is usually much easier, because once you have things working, they are really working ... where as if you have done an upgrade, that may not be so.
Also, understand that the issues of upgrading are the same regardless if distro .... moving from mysql-3.23.58 to 5.0.x is not going to happen properly by any distro's installer. There are just too many variables. Move from Apache 1.2 to 2.0 or 2.2 ... same thing. Postgresql-7 to Postgresql-8 ... many other examples. Those things are just not going to happen correctly, no matter if you are doing it with deb or rpm, yum or smart or apt.
Now, CentOS does have 7 year support cycle, so for the lifetime of most machines you will get security updates, but if you choose to change MAJOR versions, you should expect MAJOR issues.
This is not any different with Windows or Mac either. Upgrades from Win2000 to Win2003 (or XP for desktops) should be avoided at all costs on REAL systems ... same for upgrades from XP to Vista.
Even tons of bad press for new Mac OSx upgrades too.
That is just the way it goes.
47 • @Robert and MEPIS lovers! (by davemc on 2007-11-26 15:44:10 GMT from United States)
"Now im talking about on the desktop part, all of the distro's have some flaws or deffects and non of them work properly, also here I wanna add one point, if there are companies like Connical, Redhat, Novell, Linspire and Xandros, why none of them came out with a proper desktop enviroment, because as sorry I am to say it, KDE and Gnome lacks for a lot of things and also lacks of proper stability, why this companies dont get together and create, or remaster based on KDE or on Gnome a proper desktop enviroment for Linux"
Welcome to the world of Desktop Computing! I honestly cannot think of an OS that handles all things, 100% of the time, without ever having any issues or hiccups. Can you?.. Can anyone??.. Hello?
Robert, this is the HUGE difference: Linux = FREE! It is at heart, non-proprietary. The Distro you choose/use may contain non free elements, but it is essentially free to download, redistribute, etc. The developers who work on it, in most cases, work for free or run off donations. They do this because its their hobby, and Linux, and the philosophy behind free software/GPL, is their one true love. Linux is more than just the software which makes your computer do things. Much more! The collaborative effort is there already and its fruits are plain for all to see as all the major projects contribute to upstream with bug fixes and new apps developed by one project, often get adopted as mainstream, get improved upon, and so forth.
@MEPIS lovers! Save your project imo. If Warren needs $$ to go full time on the project, then do what is right and get him some. You really think that Linux Devs live in Candyland and have no bills to pay or mouths to feed???!!! LOLOL!! Warren is right! Linux will never succeed to the prime time if we dont learn to treat our main devs right and ensure that thier needs are covered. Attitudes like "Warren just wants money for himself and wont accept help to the project", are just plain childish and counter-productive. You take from their works and enjoy them daily yet expect that you have no part to play in the grand scheme of things. Please!! Get over yourself and open that wallet, because we ALL have an obligation to ensure that Linux succeeds. If you cant/dont know how to contribute code, then your part is to contribute to your chosen project. Although nobody seems to really want to say this, perhaps im being bold, but it IS true, and it must happen for Linux projects to succeed.
48 • Re. #35 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 15:48:20 GMT from United States)
"...but he is tainted by the US obsession with $$$"
Bashing the US is getting a little old, so stop stereotyping us. Not everyone here is obsessed with money. Saying that is like saying all of you in the UK are a bunch of sour-faced pensioners.
49 • Mint (by bystander on 2007-11-26 16:04:03 GMT from Finland)
Well, Mepis already switched back from (K)Ubuntu to Debian, and I think they made the right choice. And Sidux has shown that even Debian Sid is usable as a day-to-day desktop system (if you take some precautions).
Debian Testing (currently called Lenny) is just as reliable, if not more so, than the "stable" Ubuntu releases. But, unlike Ubuntu, Debian Testing receives updates every day, which keeps it relatively up-to-date at all times. And Debian Testing now also gets security updates that fix security problems for all packages. This is a definite advantage over Ubuntu, where packages in the "universe" component (about 60% of all Ubuntu packages) are only supported by the community but not by the official Ubuntu developers.
If Linux Mint were to build their distro on top of regular snapshots of Debian Testing, with their own Mint-specific additions, and make it available via installable live-cd's, that would surely be a hit. :-)
50 • HP laptop compatibility issues (by Larry on 2007-11-26 16:15:13 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the tip from RC. Unfortunately, HP has been so enthralled by its commitment to Microsoft that is has gone out of its way to eliminate any possibility of compatibility with Linux. The only reason it has failed so far is it hasn't engaged its top talent in the project. Eventually, however, it will produce a laptop on which no one can successfully install a usable Linux.
51 • Misc (Re 25 and AntiX/Mepis) (by dbrion on 2007-11-26 16:16:45 GMT from France)
" Im just lets say unhappy with the graphical part of it, if i do a normal use of it, it works fine, for example VirutalBox, crashed?! "
* Virtual Box is very young, and I only use it in cybercafés for quick tests; I prefer qemu (the CLI makes that one can trace parts of the configuration, and it is more interesting than being fast), or VMplayer. If you use a recent Linux kernel as a virtual machine under Vbox, you might have issues (it is not an issue of Gnome/KDE/ etc, nor the emulated Linux, but VBox's issue and it is linked in Mandriva's errata).
I have one propriatory application , compiled under Linux, which ! randomly ! crashes any linux desktop I tried.... this is "my" application faults, not KDE/ Gnome, etc...
* Even with a desktop, Linuxen can hold for months/years without restarting (that makes boot times irrelevant) ; OTOH Windows ME could last, under very careful hands, for 1/4 hr, with Windows XP one is advised to restart every week at least (too many mem leaks or weird bugs).
I would like to thank Anticapitalista, as I found AntiX (a small version of Mepis) very suitable, almost as memory sober as DSL, and with sufficient localization/keymap recognition - though Mepis localization was (is? never tried again) messy in 2006, the memory consumption of its derivative makes it really interesting for old PCs (if they do not burn...).
52 • #35 (by Tony on 2007-11-26 16:17:14 GMT from United States)
"...but he is tainted by the US obsession with $$$."
I don't fault anybody a chance to get a job that will put food on the table and a roof over their head. If that's uniquely American - so be it!
While I'm not a Mepis user, I do understand what it takes to run a family and if he needs to do consulting work to make ends meet - I'm glad he can do it!
Best wishes on developing Mepis - it's looking better everyday!
53 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 16:29:45 GMT from United States)
> Attitudes like "Warren just wants money for himself and wont accept help to the project", are just plain childish and counter-productive.
Not really. He has a bad business model. Is that a difficult concept? You don't just say, "Here I am. I have a Linux distribution. Therefore the community has to support me."
I do donate sometimes, and make other contributions, to my chosen distro, which is not Mepis. I would encourage Mepis users to make a small donation of $5 or $10 if they use it regularly.
However, if you want to feed yourself with your distro, you are entering the world of business. You better get those issues straightened out before you quit your day job.
Let's see why it might be a problem. He's offering a little polish on existing Linux distros. While Mepis is good, there's nothing special compared to Mandriva, PCLinuxOS, Ubuntu, Mint, .... Those distros are given away for free. Business 101 says you aren't going to make it if you offer the same product that others are giving away. If he wants to enter the shrink-wrapped software business, and go head to head with Microsoft, he should have followed Apple. He could have started with a BSD base. Then he could have modified it all and sold it as a binary blob.
54 • Fedora Mint (by anonymous on 2007-11-26 16:36:50 GMT from United States)
Well, someone needs to drag Fedora kicking and screaming into the current decade when it comes to hardware support and general usability. Might as well be the Mint team!
55 • Re. 45 Earphone Jack support (by Nanlee on 2007-11-26 16:44:15 GMT from Canada)
Probably, I should stated my problem a little clear. My biggest problem is the loud sound of the splash when I start a live CD. Yes, you can change the configuration to make it work, but that is too late. Everyone in the office has been disturbed by the noise of my live CD splash. Yes, it is a BIG ISSUE.
56 • mepis,sidux,linux mint (by fred brockman on 2007-11-26 17:08:34 GMT from United States)
I have sidux, linux mint, and windows on the same hard drive (triple boot).
57 • Distro Hopping (by jeffcustom on 2007-11-26 17:12:05 GMT from United States)
If you want rolling updates, sidux is a good option. No one pretends that living in sid is for beginners but if you've been around Linux for a bit I can't imagine why you wouldn't like what sidux has to offer...... Rolling updates, up to date packages, active dev team with frequent easy kernel updating and monitoring of sid along with the fastest KDE desktop I've experienced. For beginners, Mint is definitely a great choice and I would be very interested to see a Debian Mint for the very reason of rolling updates. My days of constant reinstallations of distros are over....hello vbox!!
58 • mepis,sidux,linux mint (by fred brockman on 2007-11-26 17:18:28 GMT from United States)
I have sidux, linux mint, blag 7000 and windows on the same hard drive (quad boot). Lint mint v3.1 has taken steps to remove uncontrolled software installs. When you upgrade, the clean install is best because it get rid of all the junk you have installed on your machiine. The thiing about distrowatch is that you can try a distro and if you don't like it, you can erase it from your hard drive. I am having fun. I have been using linux since redhat 4, computers since 1977. Also, I prefer the uncluttered look of gnome over kde. I am writing this on the blag7000 distro.
59 • RE: 55 About sound (by IMQ on 2007-11-26 17:20:09 GMT from United States)
If I am not mistaken, Linux distros used to have sound muted and the user must enable it after booting or after install. But when Linux on desktop became popular, people complained that sound was not on by default.
Now sound is not only on, but on loud enough to shatter ear drum! :)
I say, it's damn-if-you-do and damn-if-you-don't situation.
60 • The most annoyances about KDE & Fluxbox (by IMQ on 2007-11-26 17:53:28 GMT from United States)
I frequently download and test-drive numerous distros, many of which has KDE, GNOME, XFCE, and Fluxbox as a desktop manager.
What I often find annoyance about is the KDE and Fluxbox menu structures. They are annoyances because there are just too many clicks to drill down to locate where the application I want to run.
To me, this is not very efficient.
GNOME and XFCE menus do it right for me. Take a look at Ubuntu menu, for example (since I am on Ubuntu at the moment). The structure of the menu layout is:
Sound & Video
Clicking on any of these main category will give a list of installed applications. Just two clicks and off I go.
XFCE is also set up similarly with a two-click approach.
But not so with KDE or Fluxbox (which supposed to very simple). If I recall it right, when I click on the K-menu button, there is a category called Multimedia. Under Multimedia, there are 3 sub-menus called Graphics, Audio, and Video. So it takes 3 clicks to get to where I want to go.
In some cases, it will take a user more than 3 clicks to find the application to run.
I just test-drive Shift Linux 0.5 Flux for a few minutes and the menu is a mess, just like what I saw when I took Fluxbuntu for a spin. I had at one time installed Fluxbuntu to the hard drive because I was curious to see if it was more responsive than GNOME or KDE. I wasn't impressed. I did rebuild the menu to a much simpler one, using GNOME menu layout as a template.
Now the new K-menu, although very eye-candy and such, is even less efficient. The user must click on item for the menu listing to expand to the right. I am not sure if this is the default mode because I saw some distros with new "K-menu" that just automatically expand the listing when mouse hovers. I do hope the new release of KDE will have the option to switch back to *classic K-menu* mode. I really do!
OK, I think I vent my annoyances long enough!
I feel better now. ;-)
61 • 60 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 18:09:47 GMT from United States)
I've commented on the same thing here before. I don't recommend PCLinuxOS normally to Windows users largely for that reason. When the latest PCLOS came out, I had someone try the live cd. I don't remember which application it was, but he opened the menu, and by the time we found the app, we had opened submenus and moved all the way from the left side of the screen to the right, then started opening submenus in the other direction. He said WTF, I said WTF, and after that I decided it wasn't quite ready for use by potential Linux converts.
And please save your rants PCLOS users, I know you can change the menus, and I know PCLOS just works for every piece of hardware you have ever owned, and I know that your grandmother uses PCLOS with no difficulty, and I know that every other distro is junk, and I know trillions of customization options are what new users are after, but this is my experience, and it was embarrassing. This is something that has to be changed before I will introduce someone to Linux with a PCLOS live cd again.
62 • Linux Mint Fedora (by Rodrigo at 2007-11-26 18:13:26 GMT from Mexico)
I think Mint should continue working with Ubuntu based distro, because ubuntu is a famous distro with good support, and while you get support for Ubuntu, you also get support for mint linux.
63 • Re. 59, It is about earphone jack support (by Nanlee on 2007-11-26 18:16:19 GMT from Canada)
If you read my previous question then your will know It's not whether it has sound or not. It whether they support earphone jack or not by default at boot. It good to have the sound on and to have ear phone jack on so that one can control and keep the sound only to him/her self. Is it too much to ask? Just imaging that your plug in an earphone to your TV late at night so that your can watch a movie without bothering the others but only to find out the speaker is still on and you have to perform "two clicks" of your remote control AFTER hearing the loud sound of the beginning of your movie. I personally can't see any logic of not supporting ear phone jack by default unless someone wants to purposely bypass your earphone and proudly show-off its flash.
64 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 18:18:26 GMT from United States)
"...when I click on the K-menu button, there is a category called Multimedia. Under Multimedia, there are 3 sub-menus called Graphics, Audio, and Video. So it takes 3 clicks to get to where I want to go."
I test a lot of distro's (don't we all?) also and AFAiK the only ones that have that type of Kmenu structure are mandriva based. Please don't judge the majority based on the customizations of the minority. If you don't like it change it. Defaults are there for a reason but that is no reason to judge an entire distro based on something so trivial. For example, one of the criteria I look for in a distro is whether the resource sucking beagle is running, and if it is I turn it off and uninstall it. I don't just jump to another distro and complain.
Oh and by the way, that menu structure is called a "nested menu" (Xfce has this feature but it's off by default depending on the distro) and a lot of people like it that way. A place for everything and everything in it's place. It's a good idea to have it like that if you have a lot of applications installed, otherwise the menus become so large that they become unmanageable.
65 • The Big News This Week (by Maxwell Silver Hammer on 2007-11-26 18:19:24 GMT from Canada)
I thought that the big news this week would be DWW posting an ad for Microsoft/Dell's Windows Vista Instant Win Game.
Ladislav made a lot of noise when LinuxToday decided to run Windows ads, now he's running them too! (I reloaded the page a few times and it seems that Google Ads offers only 2 different advertisments for DWW to use, the other being for Intel/VMWare.)
66 • @48 • Re. #35 (by john on 2007-11-26 18:21:43 GMT from Canada)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
67 • 66 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 18:25:52 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
68 • @66 • 48 • Re. #35 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 18:27:54 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
69 • Mint and Mepis (by Amy on 2007-11-26 18:37:40 GMT from United States)
I am not sure why people would send such awful emails about Mepis. I have been waiting for Mepis 7 for a while and watching both here and the site and have not seen any news of RC2. So hearing that people are sending these emails confuses me.
Any way I am a fan of Mepis as I use it at work and am using it right now to type this.
Also I use Mint linux at home but its an older version and I had problems with the menu as I could not edit the menu but that was with the KDE version. I plan on getting the newest version later today and will see if I can edit the menu.
70 • @23 (by Jimmy Johnson on 2007-11-26 18:41:17 GMT from United States)
@23 - What is the source for your slander, without source your post is less than worthless. I'm posting as a person that has spent many hours on the phone with Warren, discussing Mepis and fixing problems.
I have been testing Mepis since the first Beta.iso, what have you been doing to support Linux?
71 • U.S>A> (by r on 2007-11-26 18:50:03 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
72 • 66 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 18:52:59 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
73 • @72 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 18:55:29 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
74 • Minty (by Jesse on 2007-11-26 19:09:21 GMT from Canada)
I really enjoyed reading Susan's review of Mint. Susan has a clean
and well thought out approach to distro reviews that is rare in
the Linux community. It's nice, for example, to read a review
that is not 75% "How I installed this distro."
I would love to see Mint create a base on Fedora. I've used Red
Hat distros for years (mostly Fedora releases) and I think the
polish and ease of use that Mint offers would be a perfect
combination with the Fedora base.
75 • Thanks for the Happy B-day to sidux (by craigevil on 2007-11-26 19:13:44 GMT from United States)
sidux rocks, I have ran it since h2 first came out with a script to crossgrade from Kanotix. Nothing beats the speed and bleeding edge apps in Debian Sid.
Happy Birthday Sidux, hope you are around for many years to come.
76 • 70 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 19:20:07 GMT from United States)
> What is the source for your slander, without source your post is less than worthless. I'm posting as a person that has spent many hours on the phone with Warren, discussing Mepis and fixing problems.
You must be reading a different post. I can't find the slanderous statements you refer to.
I don't care if you dislike my post, these are things that others have told me about. If you are interested, you might call up Warren and ask if he is willing to give someone else control of important parts of the project, or if he will continue to make all important decisions himself.
In the desktoplinux.com article linked above, it says, "Others, like MEPIS, have one developer, and users of the popular Linux desktop distribution were getting worried when Warren Woodford, MEPIS's CEO, had been laying low for the last month."
I know members of the "community" that left because he wants to run the show himself. Maybe you better email SJVN and tell him he is wrong about having only one developer because you have talked on the phone with Warren.
> what have you been doing to support Linux?
Probably a lot more than you. Why are you changing the subject?
77 • #66 Pinch yourself awake (by whatthehell on 2007-11-26 19:29:51 GMT from Canada)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
78 • antiX (by anticapitalista on 2007-11-26 19:42:19 GMT from Greece)
Re: post 51 from dbrion
"I would like to thank Anticapitalista, as I found AntiX (a small version of Mepis) very suitable, almost as memory sober as DSL, and with sufficient localization/keymap recognition - though Mepis localization was (is? never tried again) messy in 2006, the memory consumption of its derivative makes it really interesting for old PCs (if they do not burn...)."
Glad you like antiX and thanks for the nice comment.
Re: post 60 IMQ and 'bad' fluxbox menu's.
Give antiX a try. I have tried to make the fluxbox menu as intuitive as possible. Wolvix-cub does a very good job too IMO as does tinyflux.
Generally on rolling upgrades.
antiX is also a distro that follows the philosophy of rolling upgrades. Though it's based on Mepis7 and uses all the Mepis tools , it has a completely different set of apps and defaults to Debian Lenny repos, not Etch. (one of the very few, maybe the only one, Debian Lenny livecd out there in distroland)
It is very easy to use sid repos too for those that want 'bleeding edge'. My installed antiX uses sid repos so far with no problems.
BTW There is also an antiX-base.iso file available (187MB) for those that want an easy and quick install of X plus a few apps, and then the freedom to install as you wish. The idea is based on what arch linux offers its users with its core iso. See website for details.
Finally, I would also like to say Happy Birthday to sidux. What the devs there have achieved in a year is just amazing. Keep up the good work!
79 • Sidux, Ubuntu, Mint, Shoucast webradio does not work (by Jan O on 2007-11-26 19:42:25 GMT from Netherlands)
I have tried the latest releases of Ubuntu+Automatix, Mint, Sidux, etc. None of them would play shoutcast webradio.
Mepis 7RC1, initially also failed on this. However after activation of all Gstreamer plugins (in Mepis you can do this with one click in the repository-list) it finally worked.
What is the benefit of perfect distros (sidux, Mint, etc...) if the fun is kept out??
80 • @77 (by john on 2007-11-26 19:44:06 GMT from Canada)
Comment deleted (off-topic).
81 • Fedora based Mint (by dooooo on 2007-11-26 20:13:27 GMT from Jordan)
The biggest question is what package management tools Mint Dev's are planning to use in their Fedora based version ? I'm actually looking for an answer .
Off topic: I'm looking for advice .....
Should I go Intl64 or AMD64 for my hardware upgrade ?
82 • 81 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 20:19:44 GMT from United States)
What are you planning to do? Because most users get approximately zero benefit from a 64-bit OS, it usually does not make a difference.
83 • @79 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 20:39:13 GMT from United States)
"I have tried the latest releases of Ubuntu+Automatix, Mint, Sidux, etc. None of them would play shoutcast webradio."
Really, I run sidux so this stream I'm listening to (http://188.8.131.52:8000) must just be my imagination, huh?
84 • You dream too much (79 • Sidux, Ubuntu, Mint, Shoucast webradio does not work) (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 20:56:37 GMT from Germany)
sometimes on the #sidux support room someone annonces
Blackleo: hi folks, the #sidux-nightclub has opened it's doors. free entry today, happy hour - and a sidux live streaming music channel
- featuring dj blackleo tonight
I'm sure people is going to start another distro to hear the sream ;)
85 • #83 #79 shoutcast (by dooooo on 2007-11-26 21:06:56 GMT from Jordan)
Shoutcast working (Debian Sid+XMMS)
good station by the way .
Well , I upgrade my hardware every 4 years . where do you see the 32-bit architecture 4years from now ?
86 • Re: 46 • (upgrades versus reinstalls) (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 21:12:28 GMT from United States)
You've done an excellent job of describing *why* an upgrade is a pain in the butt. That's *exactly* why I'd love to see somebody solve the problem, so that I don't have to solve it manually every darn time.
Oh, and I've never had a problem upgrading between Windows versions. As far as I know, they were all on real computers.
87 • upgrades re: 86;46 (by ray carter at 2007-11-26 21:17:42 GMT from United States)
Over the last couple of years I've done several Ubuntu upgrades and not had major issues. BTW - I like the Gentoo philosophy - install the sucker and do software upgrades as they come - if you do that you always have a current system and don't have to worry about a version upgrade.
88 • sidux (by Razberrie Tart on 2007-11-26 21:25:36 GMT from United States)
Had to drop in my two cents worth. sidux is the only distro I use, i barely tried Kanotix, and when my girlfriend switches us over, i tagged along. sidux is difficult for newbies, sometimes, but they try to make it as easy as possible with tools such as the smxi script for upgrading, kernel install, graphic driver updates, and other bits and pieces to make things easy. there i s also the fabulous manual (The Bluewater manual) as well as the fairly prompt and reasonable help in the #sidux channel and forums. If you can't find an answer in one, try the other.
Heck, I love sidux, I am the Official Fangirl for the distro :) can't beat that, now can you ? How many other distros have an Official Fangirl ?
89 • RE: 78 • antiX (by IMQ on 2007-11-26 21:37:04 GMT from United States)
I actually have antiX installed on one of the partitions on this very machine. Just for playing around a little bit since I am not that familiar with Fluxbox.
antiX has a simpler, not too nested menu structure that I like. Although additional packages installed do not show up on the menu, it is easy enough to add them manually.
I think I have it also installed on one of my laptops, the ancient IBM A21m and it seems to work OK there as well. I haven't spent much time playing with it. Maybe later.
You did a pretty good job on antiX. So, congratulations!
Fluxbox, IMHO, is for users who are not to timid to do some manual editing in order to custom the look and feel of the desktop environment. Kinda remind me of Slackware where things are usually done by editing configuration manually.
I am aware there is an option to a graphical menu editor but I find it is much more efficient to edit the menu with a text editor.
Oh, BTW, antiX, like many of the latest distros, can't see past partition #15 on the hard drive. Ubuntu 7.10 and Mandriva 2008 still support HD with more than 15 partitions (I do lots of distros test-drive, not as much as I used to). openSUSE 10.3 can see past 15 partitions if hwprobe=-modules.pata is used.
sidux has the same problem seeing past 15. An interesting note, Mint 4.0, even though based on Ubuntu Gutsy, cannot see past partition #15 either. However, this was based on Mint 4.0 XFCE. So I doubt that Mint 4.0 is any different.
90 • MEPIS (by speedygeo on 2007-11-26 21:41:44 GMT from Romania)
Thank you Ladislav. Your notice about the support for MEPIS are welcome. I didn't know what is the rule for the news annoucements. Personally, I hope Warren continue to maintain MEPIS, this high quality, rock stable, large compatible linux distribution with a friendly community. About the money support, I think we must write more about how the distribution can live on, and about freedom software not means no cost software. Not every distro have a big software corporation behind.
91 • OMG this must be a new record ! (by stefan on 2007-11-26 22:14:32 GMT from Netherlands)
did anyone notice that we nearly have 100 posts here this week ..... without any moaning and b*tching about the PHRs yet?
wow that is really quite refreshing.
92 • @61 multiple level menus (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 22:18:37 GMT from United States)
I saw just a few menus that went to a 4th level in PCLOS. Nothing like you describe. That must have been exaggeration inspired by a 640-pixel wide display.
93 • Re: 33 • How about a distro for non-distro hoppers? (by Professor Yaffle on 2007-11-26 22:41:13 GMT from United States)
I suggest you try Debian Testing. Stable but reasonably current software, great support, huge software repositories, regular incremental updates. Never have to reinstall.
P.S. The PHRs blow!
94 • Mint using Debian repositories (by Rebel on 2007-11-26 22:59:10 GMT from United States)
Great idea!! It worked for MEPIS and it would work for Mint. Go for it!!
95 • @23-76 (by Jimmy Johnson on 2007-11-26 23:11:50 GMT from United States)
Quote: "Mr. Woodford has done his best to turn away those who could contribute in a meaningful way his project. I've heard this from a lot of individuals who like Mepis and wanted to get involved...he wants to do it himself and take any revenues for himself...he has zero interest in having a community distribution...he wants to make money for himself, that's it."
That statement in it's self is totally wrong and that is what happens when you use second and third hand information, the Mepis users are being constantly polled and Warren acts on the information he gathers from these polls, the art work is a community project, bug squashing is a community activity and as far as money goes, Warren has spent thousands of $$ from his life savings to support Mepis, if it was not for the little $$ that Warren gets we, the users, would not have Mepis and the Linux community would not have the Mepis model.
Quote: "It's also hard to justify donating a large amount of money to him alone when more than 99% of what is in his OS was done by others."
And that statement tells me that you know little about the Linux community in general, it is the work and ideas of others, and will be carried on by even more, Klaus Knopper the Godfather of the Live CD has contributed a lot to Linux and then Warren took that a step forward and made the Live CD easy to in install using a stable operating system and tools that even a Newbie could use, Mepis continues to get better due to the hard work by others and the hard work by Warren and that is a Linux community.
Quote: "Probably a lot more than you. Why are you changing the subject?"
I ask you what you have done to contribute and that's your answer, sounds more like the words of a Troll to me.
As for changing the subject, every paragraph you wrote except for one had something to do with contributing: "could contribute"..."wanted to get involved"..."spend all his time on Mepis".
96 • RE: 71 (by KeepLookinUp on 2007-11-26 23:21:02 GMT from United States)
Dear r from the United States,
Our political problems started LONG BEFORE George Bush... let's look at the bright side... when Pelosi, Reid and Clinton have FULL control... I predict the LINUX and BSD share of the OS market will INCREASE dramatically, primarily due to the fact it can be downloaded and installed for free... which WILL be the working American's ONLY option after the EXORBITANT increase in taxes that WILL surely follow for their entitlement programs leaves us with NO alternatives (i.e. M$ OSs)... provided we can keep our ISP bill paid... Long Live Linux!!
97 • MEPIS & the Love of Money . . ? (by GregA at from )
To the poster(s) of messages #35, 68 and 76 - - saying the "Love of Money" is unique to the US is showing your ignorance of history and life 101 in general. I've travelled to many, many countries, and lived in several over 60+ years . . . . I have yet to find "anywhere" where people like being poor . . . (or at least some interest in interest in money . . . is the US the only country with lotteries - or racetracks - or casinos ???)
And now about MEPIS - it's a first rate, stable, easy to run Linux distro. The initial reason for that is Warren built on a solid foundation (Debian Stable), and added a great & fast installer, and most of the codecs, and common apps people need (flash, java, pdf readers, etc.). Then, he was also added the helper utilities for network and other hardware configurations that were largely unavailable then for debian distros. Now the situation has improved in that regard. And finally, Warren is working with the MEPIS community to setup a plan for completely opening up the distro, including most or possibly all of his code. Not much info has come out on that yet . . . . as planning is in early stages.
The net result will be a very user friendly, fast and simple way to install "Genuine Debian" for non-techies and folks moving to Linux from Windows.
98 • re 79 • Sidux, Ubuntu, Mint, Shoucast webradio (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 23:22:41 GMT from Canada)
"I have tried the latest releases of Ubuntu+Automatix, Mint, Sidux, etc. None of them would play shoutcast webradio."
I can tell you that Mint plays Shoutcast streams just fine (with Amarok or Exaile)
99 • Minty Debian (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 23:26:10 GMT from Canada)
If Minty Debian means faster distro that buntu, I will definitely try it!
What the heck, I try that one too! :-))
100 • Re: 93 • How about a distro for non-distro hoppers? (by Anonymous on 2007-11-26 23:36:19 GMT from United States)
Hmmm, Debian does in fact state that (for example) a 3.1->4.0 upgrade can be done in place. I was not aware of that, and I'll definitely look at Debian more closely.
Thanks for the suggestion.
101 • To: Ladislav (by Jimmy Johnson on 2007-11-26 23:49:09 GMT from United States)
Please do not take to heart the radical statements of one person, we may not always share the same opinion, but, I value your opinion as I value the opinions of others and look forward to each and everyone of your "Weekly"s.
"A Mepis User"
Registered Linux User #380263
Registered Linux Computer #279395
102 • paldo (by JAG on 2007-11-26 23:55:19 GMT from United States)
Has anyone seriously checked out paldo?
I'm curious about others opinion about it?
How does it rate against your top distros?
103 • you should try this fluxbuntu, pardus, my story (by Dopher on 2007-11-27 00:21:05 GMT from Canada)
yesterday i finally installed fluxbuntu, since on Saturday xubuntu seemed a bit to heavy after all.
Before that on wednesday i was working with the latest madriva. that worked about 3 days. as a matter of fact, nothing was wrong with it, but i just liked the theme of xubuntu so much that i convinced myself i had to migrate to it.
the week before pclinuxOS which was working okay, but i didn't liked blue.
Now on wednessday my brother called me, and he wanted to do a voIP conversation. I told him he had a to wait a little, because i was busy configuring mandriva (or what was it again?) saturday he called me again, and asked if i could send him my a picture i made once of his car. And whether we could discuss this through Skype. I told him that i had just installed xubuntu, and that i had to configure it, and that the pictures where still in the backup that needed to be extracted. I had to configure my mail client to work with my account again. would be done in a couple of hours.
Next day he called again, to ask me if i could send the picture, and wheteher we could discuss the matter by gizmo or skype. I told him that i just wiped my configured xubuntu from the computer and i was busy configuring fluxbuntu. And when it comes to skype or gizmo.. wait a few minutes, i have to apt-get it and configure it.
"Can't you just scan the picture with the scanner instead?" he asked. i answerred that that might be possible, if i configured the scanner again for my new installed fluxbuntu system. Or he could wait while i transfer my compressed backups to my new installation and extracted it, configured my email client, and then i could send it to him.
I'm really looking forward to the latest pardus, which i will probably install tomorrow, since the screenshots look very promissing.
My brother now uses the phone to talk to me, and we use snailmail and paper and enveloppes to send each other documents or pictures.
104 • @103 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-27 00:40:14 GMT from United States)
It wasn't funny the first time and still isn't.... Go find something constructive to do.
105 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-11-27 01:10:30 GMT from United States)
> the Mepis users are being constantly polled and Warren acts on the information he gathers from these polls
I bet Microsoft does more polling than Warren...that's irrelevant for who controls the project and does the development.
I would be very surprised that nobody has ever offered to help with the development of Mepis, given its user base.
> I ask you what you have done to contribute and that's your answer, sounds more like the words of a Troll to me.
As for changing the subject, every paragraph you wrote except for one had something to do with contributing: "could contribute"..."wanted to get involved"..."spend all his time on Mepis".
Warren's the one whining about not making money, not me.
106 • re:HP laptop compatibility issues (by Shrek on 2007-11-27 01:19:17 GMT from United States)
I have an HP dv9210us laptop. TL-50 processor, 2gb memory. I have tested several distros on this laptop and have discovered the following:
PCLinuxOS - runs perfectly. Even the wireless via ndiswrapper works without fail
Ubuntu - runs perfectly. I plugged in the RJ45 cable to install, used the alternate install disk, and loaded the bcm43xx driver from my cd.
SLED 10 (the enterprise version) worked almost perfectly. I needed to add the wireless driver via ndiswrapper. I also had to install the ALSA drivers from the ALSA homepage...
Fedora, and redhat versions I could never get loaded because the systems would sieze on bootup.
Each of the three distros that worked needed the Nvidia drivers loaded...
If you have any other questions about how I got things to work, please feel free to email me.
ps. those who complain about the buggyness of linux must like the anti-virus, anti-spam, anti-rootkit, and general continuous failure of IE7.....
107 • Should Linux Mint branch out? (by Nicholas Ng on 2007-11-27 01:36:50 GMT from Malaysia)
I think it will be good that they cover other distro as well such as Debian or Fedora and that will push the look-and-feel as well as the user-friendliness of Linux Mint into the distro.
108 • rolling upgrades (by Anonymous on 2007-11-27 01:52:37 GMT from United States)
I have used Debian from Woody to Sarge to Etch with no re-installs.
109 • KDE 4 (by RantingJoe on 2007-11-27 02:47:23 GMT from United States)
I don't get it What kind of upside down wisdom is this? "Oh, we know the latest version is not as good as the previous version, but that'll make everyone want to develop for it." Are these guys Windoze developers? We know that KDE4 is not as good as KDE 3.5.8 but that's the way we want it? Are they serious?
Get a clue guys and gals, if you release this next version and its not BETTER and more STABLE than the previous, there wont be a KDE5 because no one will be using it. What's the point of a new version?
No, I think the problem is they have bitten off more than they can chew and someone is boxing their cheeks. I'm not sure if they have noticed but more and more distros are going to that other project known as Gnome, and if they don't produce something that really wows folks like they promised 6 or 7 months ago, there wont be enough folks using KDE for much advanced development. At least that's what I see
110 • RE: 65 The Big News This Week (by ladislav on 2007-11-27 03:49:20 GMT from Taiwan)
I don't see the ad from where I am. If you can tell me the URL, I'll make sure it's blocked.
111 • Thanksgiving (by Exile on 2007-11-27 04:08:42 GMT from United States)
It's Thanksgiving here in the U.S. If you are unfamiliar with the holiday check it out on Wikipedia. I am sitting here reading all this on an open source OS, listening to classical music on an Internet radio station originating from the other side of the planet through Amarok. The software I am using to write this, Firefox, is also open source. My friends, there is much to be thankful for. I just want to say "thank you!" to anyone that has contributed time and effort to the state of open source. I appreciate it deeply.
112 • Ultumix Update. I may have been short in my first post. (by Justin Breithaupt on 2007-11-27 04:59:04 GMT from United States)
I may have been short in my first post so this one has all the details including a new FTP download link, screenshots, our logo, a better description, and I changed the website to match. I also have an rss feed mentioned on my site. Thanks for considering my distro. P.S. The PCLinuxOS people are still angry towards my OS so please refer to it as a Remaster of PCLinuxOS anywhere you post info about it even if I forget to. Thanks.
Ultumix Linux v0.0.0.4
A PCLinuxOS Remaster
FTP Download Link http://184.108.40.206:8001/Ultumix_v0.0.0.4/Ultumix_v0.0.0.4.iso
Torrent Download Link
Website URL http://www.mindblowignidea.com/Ultumix
Posted By: worldwidelab
Date: 2007-11-24 14:53
Summary: What to expect in Ultumix 2008
Ultumix 2008 is a remaster of PCLinuxOS. One of the things that bugged me about PCLinuxOS 2007 was that it did not have the legally free Mozilla plugins installed. This meant that I had to rely on konquerer in order to play some media files. I'm resolving this problem. I also plan to have the ability to install debian and .rpm packages directly from the .deb or .rpm file you download. I'm not sure if this feature will be in the final product for 2008 or not. The Vixta interface has been incorporated in version 0.0.0.1 so thats not new but I'm removing the Secret Mario Brothers icon and the Wine-Doors icon because if you install all the windows packages in Wine-Doors your Wine won't let you navigate files on your PC in most cases. Secret Mario Brothers just plays too slow on any PC. I think I will add some more non 3D reliant video games. Suggestions would be much appreciated. My uncle in Japan complained to me that he had trouble with Japanese fonts and websites so I installed all the language packs for Mozilla as well. Hopefully by the time this distro comes out we will have the respect of the Linux Community. I'm still getting complaints about the icons on the desktop but I don't really care because my customers are still having trouble finding things in the PCLinuxOS menu unless it's spelled out for them. They don't know what Office is. They think it's different than Word, Excel, and Powerpoint. Ask one of my customers what Multimedia means. These things just confuse them. They happen to love my icons I put on the desktop. This OS is designed to make Windows users happy not Linux users. If a Linux user likes my OS they can change it all they want after they install it.
113 • branching out (by acidburned on 2007-11-27 05:08:31 GMT from United States)
i think its a great idea to branch out,especialy debian based.
114 • Fedora edition (by Anonymous on 2007-11-27 05:13:42 GMT from Malaysia)
"Well, someone needs to drag Fedora kicking and screaming into the current decade when it comes to hardware support and general usability. Might as well be the Mint team!"
Fedora seems to emphasize stuff like SELinux and LVM at the expense of hardware support - particularly for notebooks (I suppose RHEL is mainly used on desktops or workstations).
I haven't been able to use Fedora on either of my machines at home because of problems with wireless, so I would definitely give Mint Fedora a try (unless Fedora 9 has better wireless support).
115 • RE: 108 • rolling upgrades (by IMQ on 2007-11-27 05:14:50 GMT from United States)
I am curious.
Are you using purely Debian repositories? Mixed? If so, any hiccup with installing, removing, or upgrading packages?
My experience with Debian started with Woody. I didn't know enough to stick. Then I tried Sarge and finally found Etch is quite usable, even its packages seems out-dated as compared to the current crops major distros. In fact, when Etch came out, I had it installed on almost all of my machines, both desktops and laptops.
Debian is my backup distro in case something goes wrong with the distro I currently logging in (at the moment, Gutsy, a younger cousin of Debian).
116 • WOW and WOWOW (by Robert on 2007-11-27 07:25:30 GMT from United Kingdom)
I cant belive that the comments end-up on the subject like politics and stuff like that!!? :)
I wanna share with you my wonderfull expiriance with Linux Mint, yes people, I have listen to you and setup Linux Mint, like yesterday evening. Well my first impression is this: Looks nice, but still very instable and Im gonna tell you why.
So I've installed the lates from linuxmint.com and its based on Ubuntu 7.10 as I can see (or im wrong), anyway like I said, I set it up and reboot the system. The GDM started and ask me 2 questions, one: If i want to setup root account which there where saying its not a good idea, and some fortune crap, so normaly I did setup the root account with a password and no fortune.
After this, I loged into my normal user, from the first start the "refresh" rate of my monitor was screwy, I had to set that up again, no biggy, was done in 2 sec. After this I wanted to set the graphical desktop with compiz, so ok I went to the Settings menu at Appearance at Visual Effects. I did ask me for my root pass to be able to setup some nvidia driver, thats not big deal too, but it didnt accepted my root account password, which was really weird?!. So I started a terminal and tried with "sudo passwd root", and asked me for my user sudo passwd, which wasnt never set, thats is weird, anyway, I've loged out from my user account, and login with root account in Gnome desktop, this part worked and I tried again the compiz desktop or Visual Effects, it didnt work again :( bummer :(. So I've tried "Envy" a Mint app, and I was surprised to see that it get the proper driver for my nvidia card with everything that he needs and set it up nicely. THX GOD!
At this point I started to be happy, until I wanted to watch a movie, so I went to one of my partitions where I had American Dad and just simple double-clicked, it started Totum as I remember or something like that, something that belongs in Gnome desktop and started normaly. I wanted to see it in fullscreen so I did that too, went again my problems started again, the refresh rate of my screen got reseted again, and half on my screen was black and half with the cartoon, Damn shit!
I went to package manager and got Kaffeine, which for my own surprise went like a charm, so that is a KDE app and the Gnome app in Gnome didnt really work, also I got gnome-compiz-settings-manager or something similar to that, which works like crap, if I set it to start up in system tray, but it doesnt, also if I wanna set something Im waiting for the Preference for about 5-10 mins to open, with 2GB DDR2, thats too much.
So thats my story until this point!
I have to do something wrong coz this shit happens only to me?! :(
117 • RE:104 and RE:93 (by Dopher on 2007-11-27 08:57:16 GMT from Belgium)
RE:104 It wasn't me posting comment 103. Though i posted that last week (because i was trying to make a point there) . With post 103 someone from canada just copied and pasted that and even used the name Dopher. (but its nice to have some luny fans then)
anyway, back to real comments.
I agree, Debian stable is a great distro for the non-distro hoppers. Decent releasecycle, lots of software available. The problem with most people is that they want too much. Seeying a nice feature, and not easily available in their current distro, or even the change of a version number from a certain application, already makes them think about changing their distro. Because they might get behind.
I think you just have to look in a more realistic way at your computing habbits. What do i need? is that compiz fusion so great/usefull for me on the long term, or will i disable it already after a day.
The thing is, computing is so much better if you have your data ready, and your system plus devices configured so if you gonna sit behind it, you can directly use all it's features. If you migrate every 3 or 4 months, you will be "out-of-order" for at least 1 or 2 weeks. Because that scanner is not configured yet, or you haven't extracted a certain backupfile yet, or you can't find info, because you have not restored, or even you have lost, your IM history.
And abiword 2.4.5 will still work, even if though they have released 2.4.6.
So, try a more individualistic approach. If a certain app/theme/distro is working for you. that's great. Use that instead of what everyone else is using. Doesn't mean one shouldn't try something new now and then.
118 • @166 (by kanishka on 2007-11-27 09:28:23 GMT from Italy)
Sorry to hear about such a bad experience with Mint... I never had any issue with it in both my 2 PCs, a new desktop and a 4-yrs old laptop, since Mint 2.2... :(
119 • @116 (by kanishka on 2007-11-27 09:29:18 GMT from Italy)
sorry, wrong post number, it's 116 not 166 obviously ;)
120 • @ladislav re:LinuxMint 4.0 (by JustInterested on 2007-11-27 09:57:03 GMT from Australia)
Ladislav - With LinuxMint 4.0 did you have any issues with apic? Did you use the same PC as you mentioned in last week's DWW (or the week before) i.e. the PC with the Gigabyte GA-M55S-S3 motherboard? I'm typing this from LinuxMint 4.0 ("live") but I needed to use the noapic boot option for it to run - I have the Gigabyte GA-M55S-S3 as well which is why I'm asking.
I have a very similar setup to the PC specs you gave - I have an AMD 5200+ X2 and a Nvidia 7300GS, 320G SATA, 4G (800) RAM. The only distro which I have used which doesn't seem to have this issue is Studio64 (which I have installed) along with XP Pro. Can anyone shed any light on this issue (i.e. MP-BIOS bug: 8254 timer not connected to IO-APIC)? I've read about it in lots of places but no-one seems to know hwo to resolve it, apart from using NOAPIC - whihc seems to cause USB issues for me.
121 • RE 102 Very superficial test of latest Paldo liveCD (by dbrion on 2007-11-27 10:01:00 GMT from France)
"Has anyone seriously checked out paldo?
I'm curious about others opinion about it?
How does it rate against your top distros?
I very quicly tested Paldo liveCd, with qemu:
there were nice apps, developpement oriented (I believe they made me discover the existence of Anjuta, last year).
There was a big improvement w/r to the precedent version :
applications are no more compiled (I could detect it with another "k"onsole ?gonsole under gnome?, and top running). This was slow and may be somewhat repetitive on a live CD!!!).
As it was Swiss, I had to use the US keymqp... the Swiss one is too neqr the Frnch one, which leads to typos...
I thought it was , as far as I qemulated it (not for HW recognition!!), a nice distro, but had no time to go further...
122 • @120 - Try this! (by Robert on 2007-11-27 10:08:52 GMT from United Kingdom)
Try to boot the Mint/Ubuntu live cd with this: noapic, nousb acpi=off, install the system with one of those distro's and reboot. Try after rebooting setting removeing the nousb/noapic and acpi=off lines and see what happenes. If still the same leave them there and try to rebuild the kernel with exacly what you need on that PC, for me usually works this idea also makes the kernel faster, for example: You can rebuild the kernel like this:
Example: Processor type and features ---> Processor family (AMD-Opteron/Athlon64) ---> and
Subarchitecture Type (Support for ScaleMP vSMP)
Power management options ---> Default CPUFreq governor (performance) --->
This are only examples which can make the kernel be a little bit faster and more stable, also there other setting that can be done, Im not very good with all the kernel configuration, but Im doing it on my server and PC and it works perfectly, and I own a dual-core P(D) at 3.2Ghz and an AMD Athlon64 3000+ both of them work with this small example very very well.
I hope it helps you a lot, and if not the ignore this comment :P
123 • #116 (by dooooo on 2007-11-27 11:41:21 GMT from Jordan)
sudo pass = user pass
124 • RE 109 : la complainte de KDE4 (by dbrion on 2007-11-27 14:48:06 GMT from France)
" don't get it What kind of upside down wisdom is this? "Oh, we know the latest version is not as good as the previous version, but that'll make everyone want to develop for it." Are these guys Windoze developers? We know that KDE4 is not as good as KDE 3.5.8 but that's the way we want it? Are they serious?
To day, a prototype cannot be as good as an existing soft; if one is curious, it is not a reason to hide it (and it would be frustrating).
As I qemulated it, I found some nice features (and I hope that some day/year/?century? it will be even better) :
a) it was not that memory greedy (I allocated ca 300 M; I hope that it is not linked with some missing functionalities such as kuiviewers'help missing)
b) Suze has nice language qnd keymqp recognition;
- you speak of "upside down wisdom" . What about pple cloning a distr, ridiculously simply removing every language (thanks for the constuctive work...) except usEnglish, claiming that they will add British English (for linguistic diversity!!!) and asking for VOLUNTEERS (sorry for the fonts I *freely* copied) to ... retranslate in other languages???
- You also noticed that more and more distr switch to Gnome : I was advised to use KDE in 2004, after I bought some RAM (IceWM was not that bad) as Gnome was *at this time* buggier => I am glad Gnome made progresses, and that the users pressure and despair was not that terrific. I supose it might be the reciprocal way for KDE (today, both seem a little superior and less buggy than IE) ....
125 • @sergeant (by Max on 2007-11-27 15:18:05 GMT from Australia)
Man are you really from Kazakhstan?
I was watching the "long way round", and man, Kazakhstan looks really nice.
I was wondering how internet access would be like there and stuff. I also wondered if there was a linux scene there at all... But here you are...
I've always wanted to go to Mongolia, but now I've also added Kazakhstan to my list...
126 • @Ladislav (by Max on 2007-11-27 15:30:46 GMT from Australia)
I went back to your August 13th issue to see how Kazakhstan and Mongolia fared in DW. Kazakhstan does pretty well, but Mongolia is not even mentioned... Do the distrowatch logs say anything about Mongolia?
127 • #81 (by RC on 2007-11-27 15:31:02 GMT from United States)
"Should I go Intl64 or AMD64 for my hardware upgrade?"
Personally I only purchase AMD chips. The reason is that not only do they produce a quality product, but they are the only real competition that Intel has. If they don't survive, the cost of our PC's are going to skyrocket again.
128 • Elive (by Glenn on 2007-11-27 15:49:18 GMT from Canada)
I gave Elive a try first on Virtualbox and I was pleasantly surprised to see the quality of work that must have gone into the mastering of the distro. Not being used to Enlightenment it took me a few moments to figure how to navigate the system. Simple right mouse button, left mouse buttom, and the Elive control center gave me all I wanted and more.
I was impressed enough to try to install in a partition on my Thinkpad T60 to verify its hardware recognition. There was no problem installing it. The installation is smooth and one thing I liked was the option to select my screen resolution and whether I wished to use the proprietary video card driver. Setting up my wireless was very easy and setting the 3d effects again was easy.
There is a tool to configure your system's behavior ELIVE control and it is really good. I know this is a development release but it certainly is very polished. Everything I tried so far worked. The performance is quite accecpabIe and in fact the first task on your first boot is Elive will optimize your settings for you, either automatically or you can do it yourself. That is a nice touch .
I find that the repositories are somewhat limited so I'll add in the ones I need and hope it doesn't break. I need to add some of my special apps and I plan to continue testing. I encouraged by what i see so I will also do an install on one of my AMD64 systems that has SLI and HD2600 Radeon cards.
I think that anybody who wants to experiment with an Enlightenment based distro will not be disappointed in Elive, even in its present development state.
Hardware detection is good, sound and video are really very good I am favourably impressed and hope this Distro will find its niche.
129 • Interview with a Source Mage developer (by didjital magick on 2007-11-27 17:23:07 GMT from Finland)
Mage Power has interviewed Eric Sandall, one of the leading developers of
Source Mage GNU/Linux (SMGL). In the interview Sandall fills in some details
from the very early days of SMGL.
Apparently Sandall already contributed to the original Sorcerer GNU/Linux
(SGL) that later became Source Mage GNU/Linux. Then some SGL developers
forked the it to found a new distro, Lunar Penguin (later renamed to Lunar
Linux). The lead developer of SGL, Kyle Sallee, didn't like that his distro
was forked and so he removed all of the SGL files from the Internet. Some
other SGL developers, Sandall among them, thought that SGL was dead but they
had access to all the necessary files, and so they renamed the distro to
Source Mage GNU/Linux and continued to develop it from where Sallee had left
it. (Later on, Sallee rewrote Sorcerer and published it under a more
restrictive license to discourage forking, and he also dropped "GNU/Linux"
from the name of his distro.)
In this interview Sandall also tells what advantages he thinks Source Mage
has over other source based Linux distributions.
Some time ago Mage Power offered also an interview with another Source Mage
developer, Jaka Kranjc.
There hasn't been a new release of Source Mage GNU/Linux for a while
(version 0.9.6 was released in 15th March 2006) but the distro itself is
doing just fine and I've been using it without any major problems for almost
a year now. The modular Xorg is currently in a separate grimoire but I've
read that they're working to integrate it into the "test" grimoire before
the end of this year. I've also read that they're working to get a new
release out, possibly near the end of 2007 or in early 2008. Personally, I
think it would make sense to fully integrate the new Xorg before making the
release, even though some of us are anxious to see a new release of Source
Mage GNU/Linux as soon as possible. :-)
130 • @129 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-27 18:13:05 GMT from United States)
I never understood Source Mage.. I know using weird words like "grimoire" to describe stuff is kool and all but all the mumbojumbo seems to detract from the original intention of the distro. Seriously how many people who have tried it actually still use it on a day to day basis? Seriously, I'd like to know....
131 • Re: 130 (by didjital magick on 2007-11-27 19:31:02 GMT from Finland)
Apparently the guy who first wrote Sorcerer GNU/Linux, Kyle Sallee, liked
"Lord of the Rings" and games like nethack and wesnoth. ;-) I don't know.
But using this kind of magic-themed names gives Source Mage a distict
identity and personality, so you don't confuse it with other distros. It's
definitely *not* Yet Another Distro, like so many other distros.
But you don't have to like fantasy fiction to understand SMGL. I have no
idea how many people use SMGL but, to me, much more important is that it's
easy to use (if you have the basic command line skills), very up-to-date,
and reliable. And, because it's a source distro, it offers better control
over your system than binary distros. The obvious downside is that compiling
takes time but, IMO, this is a small prize to pay for the extra control.
Source Mage GNU/Linux is an excellent distro for control freaks like me.
Seriously, don't take it too seriously. :-)
132 • #127 (by dooooo on 2007-11-27 20:12:06 GMT from Jordan)
Thank you .
I just browsed AMD's site and I have to say I'm impressed .
I'll probably go with Athlon 64 X2 6400+ . A guy at a hardware store told me IIRC that 6400 is available but they are getting 7000 soon (but in their site I didn't find a model with the name Athlon 64 X2 7000 or anything close)!
133 • #132 (by dooooo on 2007-11-27 20:30:34 GMT from Jordan)
I just googled (AMD 7000) and got results like :
AMD Phenom GP 7000 vs Athlon 64 X2 6400+
AMD 2Ghz Phenom GP-7000 better than Athlon X2 3,2 Ghz ?
134 • Mint (by Caraibes on 2007-11-27 20:36:59 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Just a word to comment that after reading this week's DWW, I felt I had to try Mint 4.0. I only tried it as a live-cd so far, but it looks impressive. Very polished. Looks like a great tool to perform a fast install, when at a friend's place, for example.
Clem is gaining ground, as much as I sometimes made fun of the Mint project over the last year, he seems to do a good job.
135 • RE: 134 • Mint (by Béranger on 2007-11-27 20:48:53 GMT from Romania)
Mint, you say? I have tried it, and I have installed it.
-- Of course I could make it have 2 panels, but I couldn't get rid of the Novell-screwed GNOME start menu and Control Center!
-- I simply can't find things in that screwed GNOME start menu, I am waisting minutes instead of seconds just to find things. No, the search feature is not necessarily useful.
-- I couldn't, couldn't, couldn't disable the Compiz effects! Linux Mint has gazillions of nice and useful customizations, but I couldn't find any way to get rid of the crappy window effects. This is very stressing.
-- BTW, just like in Mandriva 2008 and Fedora 8, the Power History in GNOME 2.20 can't assess the consumption of my Acer laptop (it's shown as close to zero), whereas RHEL5 clones can show it (say, around 16-18 W), and they have GNOME 2.16. I wasn't expecting Ubuntu to fix this regression, no matter the bug is in GNOME, in HAL, in the kernel, or wherever it is...
-- Overall, it's extremely polished, but given the screwed GNOME start menu that I can't change, and also the lack of a GUI tool to disable Compiz (or maybe I couldn't find it in the menu; notice that even RHEL5 has one!), I hereby declare Linux Mint 4.0 as unusable for serious, professional usage.
136 • Distro differences (by Jerry on 2007-11-27 21:43:34 GMT from United States)
This post may read a bit like a technical "support" query, but it really is not that. It is more of an observation about different distros I have tried, and a question as to why some just don't work and some partiallly work and some really work well.
Mind if I just focus on wifi connecting? There are many other examples of "why this distro does and another doesn't work," but I want to ask about that one: wireless connections.. why can I install one distro that detects my router on the pc in the house and my broadcom card in the laptop and goes right on the internet with no problem and no configuration, but another distro on a swapped out hard drive can't even be configured to make it work?
It seems strange that after all these years, and with the same pool of information, some BIG popular distributions are lacking and some are not lacking. Is it just a matter of focus by the developers on certain hardware, ignoring other hardware? Linksys and Belkin have been around for a long time. ??
137 • Re:135, Mint (by Caraibes on 2007-11-27 22:00:00 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Well, I am installing it right now on my (very) old Toshiba SatellitePro 4300 (celeron 496Mhz, 192megs of ram...)...
I wanted to get rid of Xubuntu Dapper anyway, so I plan to use Mint for a while there, with FLUXBOX ! (just like I did with Xubuntu Dapper anyway...)
It's a test, worst comes to worst, I'll download a Xubuntu 7.10 alternate install...
On my old Toshiba laptop, Compiz won't run anyway, I'll post feedback tomorrow... The install lasts forever, because of the old hardware specs...
138 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-11-27 22:12:05 GMT from United States)
137: Just curious, wouldn't Fluxbuntu be a better choice. Xubuntu is still very heavy in my experience, even if you use Fluxbox as the WM. I'd be very surprised if you got good results with Mint even using Fluxbox. I'll wait for your update.
136: These cards have proprietary drivers. Distros that are free software only such as Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, etc. will not work out of the box. Other distros call themselves pragmatic (and free software distros naive) and include proprietary drivers.
As to your specific case, it is hard to say, because proprietary drivers are poorly written in many cases, so there are a lot of fixes that need to be implemented. Madwifi on Debian, for example, has some type of conflict with the Network Manager package, and it is necessary to set it up manually. Broadcom 1390 with Fedora 7 just never worked for me no matter how many guides I followed. If the drivers were open this would never be an issue.
139 • antiX (by anticapitalista on 2007-11-27 23:26:57 GMT from Greece)
#137, give antiX a try instead of Xubuntu and/or fluxbuntu.
140 • antiX (by anticapitalista on 2007-11-27 23:28:26 GMT from Greece)
I meant to ad that install of antiX will not last forever. Maybe on your box, 20 minutes.
141 • RE: 126 Mongolia, Kazakhstan (by ladislav on 2007-11-27 23:54:53 GMT from Taiwan)
Yes, DistroWatch gets visitors from those countries too - so far this month there were 227 visits from Mongolia and 922 from Kazakhstan. Of those 18 came from unique IP addresses in Mongolia and 263 from unique IP addresses in Kazakhstan. More details here:
As far as exotic places are concerned, we've had one visit from Antarctica so far this year. And in 2006 we had a grand total of 13 visits from North Korea, although none so far in 2007.
142 • Mint Getting Stretched Too Thin? (by ROC on 2007-11-28 02:01:21 GMT from United States)
I was a big fan of Mint Linux with version 3.0 for some months. I put it on an old AMD 800 Mhz desktop as a dual boot option (with Win98) for my wife, and once I got it set up for her (had to have MS Comic Sans font so her 1st-graders would get her teaching materials with a's and g's printed the way she teaches them to write those letters ;-) she hardly ever booted back to Windoze.
I moved the HD over to an IBM NetVista with 1.8Ghz Intel, and she liked the speedup, but it was a bit trickier with some of the hardware changes such as Intel 9xx video, and, very strangely, the IDE drive partitions/CDROM all show up as /dev/sdX instead of /dev/hdX - what's with the SCSI device types? I seem to be seeing that with some newer hardware from Dell and IBM (I know - still old by current standards, but hey! Linux prolongs life ... ;-).
But then they slipped through a set of updates a month ago or so, and the NetVista started locking up every few hours. I backed off from the "low-latency" kernel that came through with those updates, but no help. So instead of trying to figure out how to back out a complete set of updates, I decided to give Mint 4.0 a shot since it "looked good", and was just "released" ... appearances are deceiving.
Now it has a major issue with the video for the Intel 9xx such that we have to boot up in "recovery" mode, then re-run the LCD monitor auto-adjust feature each time, and mess with the resolution (can't get it up to the full 1280x1024 it used to do with Mint 3.0 - just 1280x960, and looks a tad "off"), turn the monitor off, then back on, etc. Very disappoointing. Not sure where to start troubleshooting/how to describe the issues on the Mint fora - easier to start trying other distros... Windoze one-size-fits-all is starting to look attractive to her again - Arghh!
143 • Elive 128 (by Landor on 2007-11-28 02:08:32 GMT from Canada)
I took a look at it today. I have to say I do miss the gold of the last release (was it goldish?) It gave it quite the asthetic hue. Though I never tried it last time, just from screenshots I'm basing it on. Anyway, it seems fairly decent for an ongoing development distro. For me I'm not into eye-candy. My son seems to be steering towards that as of late though and has considered putting Yellow Dog on his PS3 for Enlightenment alone where I said he could just throw it on his Gentoo install already.
He tried the cd as well today and enjoyed it. He likes the effects on the desktop and the whole "modern" feel of enlightenment. I'll stick to a slim KDE and MC/TERMINAL hogging most of my desktop it seems :)
All in all it's nice so far for those looking for that kind've WM.
Keep your stick on the ice...
144 • Stop please (by Max on 2007-11-28 02:14:54 GMT from Australia)
Can you stop with the stick on the ice thing? Its getting extremely annoying... PLEASE
145 • @144 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-28 02:19:40 GMT from United States)
146 • 131 • Re: 130 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-28 02:29:08 GMT from United States)
"Source Mage GNU/Linux is an excellent distro for control freaks like me."
Sounds like my kinda distro... (No Gentoo type er..um... baggage?)
"Seriously, don't take it too seriously. :-)"
(Hey it's better than the stick) My faith is restored, LoL!!!
Love, peace and chicken grease!!!!
147 • 142 • Mint Getting Stretched Too Thin? (by Anonymous on 2007-11-28 02:38:45 GMT from United States)
142 • Mint Getting Stretched Too Thin?
Sounds like a lot of trouble to go though just for a little eye candy and so you don't have to install codecs and stuff manually. And now the Debian and Fedora distractions?! I don't see this turning out to be the best decision for the Mint gang but I sure hope I'm wrong. Maybe they'll be enamored by one of the test bases enough to steer all of there focus toward it. Only time will tell.
Love, Peace and Hair grease from the anonymous Distro theaf!!!
148 • Mint/Thin (by ROC on 2007-11-28 02:56:26 GMT from United States)
Hard to tell in advance how these things will go, and one of my points is that Mint 3.0 before the last set of updates was just right for my wife's needs - "if ain't broke, don't fix it" is too true with Linux, too.
It was/is a lot of trouble, but when it seems like you are "almost there", and a totally new install of something much different seems like even more trouble...
Pax back at ya ;-)
149 • Mint/Thin (by ROC on 2007-11-28 03:23:25 GMT from United States)
One more X tweak, and the image is beautiful now:
I changed the xorg.conf "VertRefresh" from 43-60 to 43-75, and Walla! (Voila?) - now I can get the full 1280x1024 the LCD 17-inch screen is natively set for (heck - even shows a 1440x900 option, but don't think I wanna try that with this monitor ;-).
Huge improvement; even the wife thinks so, so I'm saved, and just maybe so is Mint 4.0. Gotta see how it behaves after power recycle, and see if we still need to start in recovery mode...
Now to see if I can get a VMware Player kernel to compile so we can play the old Windows 3.1 version of Hasbro Scrabble under a Win95 vm again ... almost easier to run Linux in VMware under Windoze.
Why does it have to be so difficult?
150 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-11-28 03:48:01 GMT from United States)
> Why does it have to be so difficult?
Good question. Why do hardware companies hate their customers?
151 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-11-28 04:24:37 GMT from United States)
"Why do hardware companies hate their customers?"
Lmao. That remindes me, how are the Radeon drivers coming along for their latest cards? I thought I glanced at something on the subject recently but I have'nt been able to find it again. I'm thinking about getting a new card soon, anyone want to buy a slightly used MX 4000, LoL... Or should I go nVidia again, I never know what to go for on the high end.
Anyway, back to the Dungeon...
152 • Ultumix FTP and Torrent issue. (it's back up now) (by Justin Breithaupt at 2007-11-28 05:47:29 GMT from United States)
I decided to set up my FTP server for the first time yesterday and little did I know it had bugs and needed to be upgraded. It's the same server that has my torrent on it. The FTP server crashed my KDE session so a whole lot of people have been wondering where my server ran off to? Well It should be back up and running now. I checked it to make sure. I don't know if the FTP will be ok but the torrent is as good as it was before. At least I get to test this server with the beta 0.0.0.4 before the final pre release. Hopefully you guys will try to bog down my FTP server again and crash it. This will let me know if the updates did any good.
153 • Is Linux Mint about to create another Fork? (by Kevan Harding on 2007-11-28 05:47:57 GMT from United Kingdom)
Please don't. Stay inside the Ubuntu arena and contribute to further establishing it as a first class package.
154 • LINUX MINT AND ARCH MY FAVORITE DISTROS (by LYCAN at 2007-11-28 06:56:26 GMT from United States)
I've been distro hopping since I started using Linux. The only distro(s) I've been able to last longest using without interfering with my life has been Arch and Ubuntu and now Linux Mint..
I took out of my list recently for some reasons:
SO Linux Mint 4.0 which I'm currently running.
155 • Mint feedback! (by Robert on 2007-11-28 07:41:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
So like I wrote in 116 or something like that, i've been using Mint for like 2 days already, I have set it up pretty ok now and everything works perfectly, still crash once, need it to reboot the comp, because of compiz zoom efect or something like that, but i disabled that effect and didnt happen again.
Also im rebuilding the kernel with the lates 220.127.116.11, but my question is there is something special need it to be done for Ubuntu/Mint? I know CentOS/Fedora/Redhat/Slackware how too, but Debian based or Ubuntu based I really dont, if someone has some indication I will take them anytime.
So, i just like to give a quick review of Mint: "Excelent until this point, I would say even better then Ubuntu aspecialy when we talk about the looks too, but its a same that Mint guys didnt do a 64Bit version :("
Thank you people, bye!
156 • Correction at @155 (by Robert on 2007-11-28 07:42:44 GMT from United Kingdom)
" Its a shame that Mint guys didnt do a 64Bit version :( "
157 • @155 (by kanishka on 2007-11-28 08:41:24 GMT from Italy)
A 64-bit Mint edition is planned for the future, but I think that brainstorming just started
158 • Re #129: Source Mage and Lunar (by DG on 2007-11-28 08:47:27 GMT from Netherlands)
Apparently Sandall already contributed to the original Sorcerer GNU/Linux
(SGL) that later became Source Mage GNU/Linux. Then some SGL developers
forked the it to found a new distro, Lunar Penguin (later renamed to Lunar
Linux). The lead developer of SGL, Kyle Sallee, didn't like that his distro
was forked and so he removed all of the SGL files from the Internet. Some
other SGL developers, Sandall among them, thought that SGL was dead but they
had access to all the necessary files, and so they renamed the distro to
Source Mage GNU/Linux and continued to develop it
I misread this the first time to mean that Lunar Linux was removed, but I know for a fact that it is alive and well. It's a source based distro, with the package management tools written in bash, so it's easy to add or update packages on your box if the central repository doesn't have what you need. You can then submit your updates for inclusion in the central repository or moonbase. It's not a distro for newbies, initially intended for servers, but it's relatively easy to download and install the usual desktop environments. Lunar is not looking for world domination and market share: the devs are doing it for the fun. They hang out on the #lunar irc channel, and are very good at helping with Lunar specific questions, but don't expect answers to things that you can already find on the web. It's source based, with rolling updates, and many of the packages are on the bleading edge, as can be seen from the DW summary page:
Advantages: it's source based, you start with a minimal system and build just what you need.
Disadvantages: it's source based, so it takes time to compile everything
159 • Misc : other advantages of source based + nice blilingual feature of (by dbrion on 2007-11-28 10:01:48 GMT from France)
a) Antix (137,139) seems to be linguistically messed, but one can switch language at any moment (typically, I started with american English and switched to French without even desktop restarting (Austrumi restarts its desktop), and is very RAM sober (I measured it with top,while emulating the CD, but forgot the number: it is anyway much below the 64M Austrumi needs, and rather like DSL). The only flaw I saw is that they do not ship gcc...
b) @158 Another advantage of source based linuxen (apart from the mere sense of Open Source) might be that you can put an application where you want (unless life has been made *too* easy for the user), thus having more than one (or two, with Mandriva and likewise other distrs) version : you can then test the latest, greatest and likewise buggiest version(s), and do not break the working one(s). This is the way applications are added in the Unix word, and on big PCs, with many users at the same time... some of them do not need untested/ half tested software. => one has very old distrs, but the favourite application remain brand new and tested... the less favourite keeping on working for years..
160 • Another mini review of Mint (by KimTjik on 2007-11-28 10:47:55 GMT from Sweden)
This is also a so called mini-review of Mint. Specification of computer: VIA chipset AMD K8 Sempron CPU and ATI X800PRO GPU; hence the scenario is different from the review (it's probably not a coincidence that we see few reviews made on systems with ATI GPUs).
I decided to give Mint a go, because some boys asked me to help them install Linux (they already had Linux, but it was time for some upgrading). They get two radically different systems on the computer: Mint and Arch (yes I like Arch and have started to use it when someone need a working Linux system on low-end/older i686 computer).
Boys usually like games, and they had a list of desirable ones. Thus I opted for the proprietary drivers in Mint with the impression that it would be quite easy to get it working; OK ATI proprietary drivers have never been easy in the real sense. The automatic set-up opted for some odd 1600x1200 screen resolution while the monitor is a simple Dell E771p (CTR max 1280x1024). So back to basics and editing of “xorg.conf”. I gave up after some time trying to solve it, but eventually rolled back to open-source ATI driver (if I would have had a lot of time I'm sure it could have been solved).
Next up Arch. What I appreciate the most with Arch is that you have total control, and you start with a basic system and easily with pacman continue the build. Since neither Xorg neither a desktop environment is installed from scratch you've got a far better chance making sure that every part of the system works as expected. ATI proprietary drivers give incredibly better performance nowadays, but as we all know: it's usually painstaking to get them working. On Arch I had a pretty smooth ride actually, getting these drivers to work before installing Gnome. No more issues with the screen resolution. The only annoyance I had was the game “Frets on fire”, which works like a charm, but don't attempt to change screen resolution (default was perfect anyway) because that somehow damaged the OpenGL output in all 3D games (flashing colours all over the screen). I've no clue to why this would happen, but it took some extra time getting everything back in it's order again.
My impressions of Mint: besides the proprietary driver issue which I normally don't blame anyone for, because it's such a tricky business, I've some few observations:
the installation procedure has a very polished and logical layout
you get the option to enable “su”, but what bothers me is that “sudo” still is set as default for system administration (I don't like that: if I have a system which shouldn't screw up and I have the “su” option presented I expect “su” to be default until I myself as the administrator decides to use “sudo”)
the desktop is nice and fairly responsive, but you have to like the stile of menus, because that's what you get to live with
for me Mint is booting way to slow
something I will test on this 4.0 release is whether booting with “fail safe” automatically gives you administration access (I helped a guy with a corrupted FSReiser file-system and was chocked that I could do whatever I wanted to without a single password; good for him I only was interested in fixing the file-system, which by the way worked)
In the end of the day the boys have a well working Mint 4.0 driven by open-source ATI drivers, and a much faster Arch on proprietary drivers.
161 • Ubuntu Forums Membership now 440k (by Going-----> UP Fast on 2007-11-28 11:54:01 GMT from Australia)
Ubuntu Forums Statistics
Growing by 1k per day (at present)
By end of Jan 2008, Ubuntu Forums membership should reach 500k!
162 • @161 - whats your point?! (by Robert on 2007-11-28 12:05:21 GMT from United Kingdom)
Really whats the point of that? I dont find anything interesting the statistics of ubuntu forum, does anyone else do find it useful?
163 • feedback on Mint on a "dinosaur" (by Caraibes on 2007-11-28 12:17:50 GMT from Dominican Republic)
This is some follow up on yesterday's post.
I installed Mint 4.0 on my Toshiba SatellitePro 4300 laptop (celeron 496Mhz, 192megs of ram). The install took of course a while. It booted once, but not twice... Seems like some hardware proved to be a problem, maybe the old wifi pcmcia card...
Anyway I read Anticapitalista's post, and will download Antix later on today (when I have time...). Right now, just as a test, I am installing Mandriva 2008 Free (the 3 cd's set), since I have it available, and it has proven a very versatile distro so far. Of course, the install is taking a really long time on my dinosaur laptop... It is a test anyway...
164 • Just a request.. (by Jerry on 2007-11-28 12:33:20 GMT from United States)
..maybe some knowledgeable person here can point me to a list of distros that include the ability to connect to a Belkin router via wifi that is attached to a pc with Linksys ethernet card. The laptop has a Broadcom 43xx card.
My googling comes up with nothing much. I know that a lot of you have very good knowledge about the linux distros. :)
165 • 164 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-28 13:30:11 GMT from United States)
In my experience, the new Ubuntu has excellent support for Broadcom wireless cards. Upon installation, you should get a popup window asking if you want to install the driver.
Mepis also does a good job with Broadcom wireless cards. It should automatically detect and set up your wireless card, and it should work from the live cd. I'm sure there are others as well, but these are the two I've found to work with Broadcom 43xx with no problems or even effort on my part.
Broadcom == pure evil, so it is possible that you might still have problems, but a post in the Ubuntu or Mepis forums is likely to point you in the right direction.
166 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-11-28 13:32:42 GMT from United States)
As for a Belkin router or Linksys ethernet card, that should work without doing anything.
I should add as well that Ubuntu Gutsy will have to download the firmware, so you need a wired connection after installation to get wireless going. Intelligent, isn't it?
167 • post 166 (by Jerry on 2007-11-28 13:46:12 GMT from United States)
I could not get Xubuntu to set up a wireless connection. It did not offer any downloads, which I could have done by connecting the machine to the back of the router or even directly to the ethernet card on the pc.
Is it not possible with my hardware to just install a distro and have it work for wifi? What about Mint?
Does anyone know?
168 • #167 (by RC on 2007-11-28 14:49:21 GMT from United States)
The Mepis worked perfectly on mine. I was on the net in under a minute after setup. All I had to to was put in my ssid name and the password. Give it a try. One caution though DO NOT change the name of the computer in the setup or after installation. I wound up installing three times because of that foolish mistake. A veteran could probably fixed it somehow, but I am CLI ignorant and had to re-install each time.
169 • RC post 168 (by Jerry on 2007-11-28 14:59:24 GMT from United States)
Thank you for the Mepis idea! I have never tried Mepis!
I will google "ssid" because I need to know more about that... I was writing in "linksys" before I had to replace the router to a Belkin. So..
Thanks again.. great idea!! Oh, I said that. :)
170 • #169 (by RC on 2007-11-28 15:02:36 GMT from United States)
The ssid is the name you have give your wireless network.
171 • #170 (by RC on 2007-11-28 15:04:04 GMT from United States)
Whoops...typing too fast and no proof-reading. I meant "given" your wireless network....sorry.
172 • Mint/Thin - X follow-up (by ROC on 2007-11-28 15:10:06 GMT from United States)
re #149 - hoping this is final word:
Really boogered xorg.conf from initial installation which seems to have been confused by Intel video - no module section at all (finally copied it from the Mint 3.0 installation - looking good so far with a single power cycle/non-recovery boot...). Maybe a more 'standard' Nvidia video would have resolved most of my problems.
173 • #172 (by RC on 2007-11-28 15:17:20 GMT from United States)
I really like Mint...but underneath it is still Ubuntu. I have yet to have good luck with Ubuntu. I had to replace Mint on the PC in the house because it couldn't keep a wireless connection. Showed a very weak signal and kept dropping it. I replaced it with PCLinuxOs and have not had a single problem since. Signal strength is high and not a single dropped connection. That is why I would love to see Mint do a Fedora version.
174 • Re 143 Elive substance (by dbrion on 2007-11-28 15:35:03 GMT from France)
"I have to say I do miss the gold of the last release (was it goldish?) "
Yes, it is, from the beginning : one can choose the language, and one is given infinite time to choose one's language, which is fine;
there are a lot of languages supported (Kazakh, Malagasy), which is very sympathetic (languages last longer than expensive fancy hardware).
REVEWOH (here is the less golden side)
From the beginning, Arabic (and I fear Farsi, too) are written in the esrever yaw (Arabic is usually written from right to left; writing it the Western way is quite dreiw; I was told by a former Iranian citizen it is the same thing with Farsi). As I know they have commercial clains, how could you buy , say, tinned peaches, if the labels were palindromic?
It is somewhat ironical, as I know elive is Debian-based, that Debian offers a start up menu where one chose a language, and that this menu supports Arabic correctly : cf
Why, oh why do pple feel obliged to break interesting and long-lasting features of their base distr?
175 • Wireless and open-source (by Anonymous on 2007-11-28 16:22:10 GMT from Malaysia)
"proprietary drivers are poorly written in many cases, so there are a lot of fixes that need to be implemented. Madwifi on Debian, for example, has some type of conflict with the Network Manager package, and it is necessary to set it up manually. Broadcom 1390 with Fedora 7 just never worked for me no matter how many guides I followed. If the drivers were open this would never be an issue."
I had variable results with ipw2200 and rt2500, both of which apparently have open-source drivers. Ubuntu and Mandriva work with both chipsets, Suse works with ipw2200, but Fedora has problems with both chipsets (hardware recognized and drivers installed but Network Manager can't connect). Some distros evidently have problems with open-source drivers too.
176 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-11-28 16:30:47 GMT from Malaysia)
"I replaced it with PCLinuxOs and have not had a single problem since. Signal strength is high and not a single dropped connection. That is why I would love to see Mint do a Fedora version."
Sorry, I don't quite follow your logic. Why should a Fedora version of Mint have similar functionality as PCLOS (which is Mandriva-based) when hardware support on Fedora seems to be lagging behind the other "major" distros?
177 • #176 (by RC on 2007-11-28 16:57:56 GMT from United States)
I was hoping that Mint could catch Fedora up in the areas that it is weak in. The core is solid if I understand what I read correctly. It just needs to be "newby-fied" to make it easier to use and wireless & laptop ready.
178 • 175 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-28 17:26:30 GMT from United States)
I haven't tried Fedora 8, but I and many others had trouble with NetworkManager in Fedora 7, so it is possible that this is a Fedora Network Manager problem rather than a wireless problem.
179 • Mepis didn't work either (by Jerry on 2007-11-28 18:20:59 GMT from United States)
I installed Mepis and the networking is just the same as the others.
Maybe I am not configuring right. .. I have to learn more.
180 • Antix... (by Caraibes on 2007-11-28 18:51:40 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Ok, guys, here's some more feedback.
On my dinosaur laptop (496Mhz Celeron, 192 megs of ram), Mandriva Free took the whole morning to install, and wouldn't boot in IceWM even after 10mn...
So I wiped it in favor of Antix M7... Installing it right now... Will post feedback later...
181 • Great distros; here are my favorites (by Brian Masinick on 2007-11-28 18:56:45 GMT from United States)
There are so many really good distributions out there that it is difficult to choose. Without slighting ANY of them, here are my favorites and why:
1. For a stable desktop environment, I have chosen SimplyMEPIS. I have the 6.0, 6.5.02, and 7.0 Beta release installed on two desktop systems and all three of them are rock solid. I keep them available and do not mess around with them much other than keeping security updates and bug fixes updated. These have all been great for me.
2. sidux - I use a Debian system as my experimental system and I have found by including the sidux repositories I can make even a highly experimental test system reliable enough to use on a daily basis - so much so that I can make it my primary system and have SimplyMEPIS available as a fall back option. Very impressed with it.
3. On my faster hardware, I like experimenting with several of the Ubuntu derivatives. I tend to use Kubuntu and UbuntuCE the most.
4. I use PCLinuxOS 2007 as a Live CD when I use my laptop and I also use it when I let my children use my system. PCLinuxOS has all the setups needed to run the on-line games that my kids like to use, so I like it in that respect and also for the good wireless support. I am less impressed with it in its performance on my older hardware, though the derivative projects that use lighter window managers do help this somewhat. Package updates with PCLinuxOS are notably slower than they are with any of my Debian based systems- MEPIS, Debian, sidux, and *Ubuntu*, so that is the only reason I am less enthusiastic about this than the other systems.
5. I am also quite favorably impressed, as are many others, with the Mint project and its derivative efforts. Given my somewhat different interests, I have reviewed it a few times but not otherwise used it a lot. No criticisms of it at all from me, mainly my inertia with other efforts keeps me on other distros.
I find Mandriva, PCLinuxOS, Red Hat, and SUSE based systems, all RPM based, to be noticeably slower to upgrade than other systems, especially Debian based systems. These distros are nicely done, but I can really tell the performance difference on an aging Dell Dimension 4100; a little less so on a somewhat newer HP D5305. In a recent experiment, I upgraded well over 800 packages on both a Debian system and later that same night on a PCLinuxOS system. The download times between the two upgrades were comparable, but the configuration and installation times once the packages were downloaded took more than twice as long on the RPM based PCLinuxOS system, so the difference is readily apparent. PCLinuxOS was my most recent target, but less than a month ago I updated a Fedora 7 desktop and it took several hours to complete - unheard of on a Debian system, regardless of how many packages are being changed. My evidence, at least to me, is quite convincing, not only of the Debian packaging reliability, but of significantly superior packaging performance as well.
182 • @180 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-28 20:07:34 GMT from Germany)
Please try SAM-Linux or PCFluxboxOS on this dinosaur. It's a very interesting testing-row. Sorry for my bad english.
183 • Mepis (by Roadblock at 2007-11-28 21:20:04 GMT from United States)
I have been a very happy Mepis user since version 3.4. I have tried many other distros since my conversion to Linux back in September of 2005. NONE of them came close to Mepis for ease & speed of installation and setup. Sidux and Kanotix come closest for me, on my system. PCLinux is a fine distro as well (v0.91 was my first HD install), but it's package management is slower and not as robust as a Debian based distro. I like Ubuntu as well, but prefer the KDE desktop. (Kubuntu just doesn't come close to the other KDE based distros I listed above for ease and speed of installation & setup) I keep Mepis (currently 7.0 RC1) as my base distro, with an install of Sidux 2007_4 and a third partition for testing other new distros.
All that said, It is regretful that anyone from the Mepis community would find it necessary to send nasty emails to Distrowatch. While I have never fully understood how the distro rankings work here, I was well aware that this wasn't the true popularity scale for Linux distros. Please don't judge Mepis, Warren, or the Mepis Community by a handful of people. The Mepis Lovers website is full of friendly, helpful folks from all over the world. Every distro and website has it's problems and problem people. That is the great thing about Linux and OS, freedom and choice. If it works for you, don't fix it. In that respect, the rankings are useless anyway. If distro xx works best for you, what does it matter where it lands on the Distrowatch rankings? Do your best to support that Distro to make sure it is maintained & developed. Your choice depends on your own individual tastes and what works best your particular hardware setup.
If Distrowatch or any other website is guilty of F.U.D. and/or misleading information, try to correct it. You don't have to get nasty or childish. Those attempts are unlikely to get results anyway. Trolls are never successful and just slow down the process.
Thanks to Ladislav for this excellent site. Many, many thanks to Warren and the Mepis community for all your efforts as well. :=)
Waiting anxiously for Mepis 7.0 final,
184 • Sabayon next.. (by Jerry on 2007-11-28 21:39:33 GMT from United States)
Time to see if this Big Guy distro will do it for me in the networking department. :)
I will post back about how it came out..
185 • #184 (by RC on 2007-11-28 21:43:46 GMT from United States)
I am really amazed that Mepis didn't work for you, but I hope Sabayon makes it happen.
186 • re 181 (by AH1 on 2007-11-28 21:44:14 GMT from United States)
I put a little comment in the last DWW about Sidux. I've only had it a week, I am still quite impressed with it. You are right about the speed, the install time is good too (from beginning to working installed system in roughly 5 minutes in my case). Not one crash/freeze/glitch/configuration error (unlike Mandriva 08 and (K)Ubuntu on my system), installed the Nvidia driver, compiz, and flash (a little more to it since I got the 64bit version). For someone new it would be better if a person were able to use synaptic safely all the time, but for someone that knows what they are doing, apt-get is not difficult, not hard to learn. Upgraded a few things, removed a few others, no problems. Adding/removing/updating packages on this is much faster than Mandriva (again on my system), and a little faster than PCLOS (my system is almost new/fast so I don't notice a whole lot there, yet). I like PCLOS a lot, but I think this will be my main one for now. Look forward to final of the new Mepis as well.
187 • re 184 (by AH1 on 2007-11-28 21:47:38 GMT from United States)
I tried Sabayon 3.4e back a while ago, it also installed well. Set up Compiz/graphics automatically. No problems. I just prefer something .rpm/.deb for what I do.
188 • Mepis Future? (by Nobody Important on 2007-11-28 22:06:24 GMT from United States)
Back in the 2003 versions of Mepis, I was so impressed that I sent $20 to Warren. I've distro-hopped all over the place since and use another fan-boy RPM distro (guess) right now. Debian was my first Linux "joy" back at the Potato stage. I am writing because I have a real fear that Mepis is going to fade away. If Warren is forced to get a "real job" and he is the originator and lead/head/?only? developer of this project, then how is there any way that Mepis is going to be as good as it has been? How is it supposed to survive? Does anybody have any thoughts on this? I am impressed with Ubuntu but it is OK. I also like Mint, but I like the idea of using the faster "mother" distro that does things the "mother" distro "DEBIAN WAY". I am looking at Sidux very seriously and will explore it when I get some time but it bothers me that Mepis, a very good Debian-based (UnUbuntu) distro is headed in a downward spiral. I suspected something was awry since it's been taking so long for 7.0 final to be released. Any thoughts out there on the future of Mepis? I am writing this on XP because I can't get power-management and suspend to disk/ram working on my T22 wireless laptop. My T22 also seems to run much warmer on Linux and I am not willing to burn up my CPU/motherboard. Hope speedstep support improves for laptops. Laptops are surpassing desktop sales and usage and I have been waiting for better laptop support for over 3 years now. Sorry for the long post. I am done. Thank you for Distrowatch!
189 • Shift Linux - why bother? (by Fractalguy on 2007-11-28 22:40:33 GMT from United States)
Shift Linux - why bother? The link to the download goes to something called 3.htm (for the fluxbox version) and proceeds to download this, naming it 3.htm. Good grief, please name it ShiftLinux-Flux-0.5.iso and give us a link to it. And the md5sum? Sure, how about putting it in a file so we don't have to nano ShiftLinux-Flux-0.5.iso.md5 ourselves, inserting
Come on, do try to keep up. :)
Well, after renaming mine and checking it with my home made md5 file, it checks OK. Maybe I'll burn a copy.
Yes, Distrowatch needs some help in pre-checking these for some minimal standards before mentioning them on this esteemed web site.
190 • Mepis rc1 (by adrian jones on 2007-11-28 22:55:18 GMT from United Kingdom)
Ref Comment 188
Hello just thought i would reply to your comment,Mepis is still alive and kicking check out mepislovers.org.
Yes Warren has had to get a job,but that doesn`t spell the end of the distribution.
Warren is also going to open up the distribution to the community a lot more to offload some of the workload.
Why this means the road to final release has been a slow one,it has been a very steady and stable one also.
Mepis 7.0 final will be released at some point soon maybe in a few weeks and i for one am looking forward to it very much.
I think mepis in 2008 will go from strength to strength and everyone who uses it will feel more part of this distro than they have before.
Mepis is very much still alive and kicking.
191 • Linux Mint working with different distros (by epidenimus on 2007-11-28 23:46:36 GMT from United States)
Ubuntu is an outstanding base, but it is lacking. One of its greatest strengths is in the vast software available in repositories. Linux Mint takes all of its advantages and makes it all look, feel, and operate better.
For example, I prefer Thunderbird over Evolution, yet Ubuntu nearly hardwires Evolution into its core much like M$ wires in Internet Explorer. Then I still have to find fonts, codecs, and media players to make Ubuntu functional. Linux Mint comes with all of this working out-of-the-box and allows me to fix only a few bugs and focus on making the system I want. It is fantastic!
The limitations and big bugs of Ubuntu are hurting the entire Linux community. For example: I started with Ubuntu on a desktop and when I upgraded my main machine to a laptop (with an ATI video card), you can bet that I took it out of the box, wiped the hard drive clean and Installed Edgy Eft on it. Since Feisty Fawn, I can't even get Ubuntu's live CD to run on the same machine without hacking the heck out of it. This non-operability extends of course to all Ubuntu derivatives--including Mint--and therefore limits them.
I guess I just don't see what Mint can really do with other distros, being that their handicaps are within their own coding (somewhere...). Ubuntu is to Debian as Mint is to Ubuntu. How could shirking Ubuntu's strides produce a better product?
Fedora could benefit from adding some non-free codecs and software to it. But it's other handicap is in package management, with Yukake or whatever.
I guess I see package management as the major hindering to Linux desktop propagation in general. And it's the one thing that Ubuntu--and even moreso, Mint--really has nailed. Abandon that and what do you have? More perfume on a pig?
192 • 184 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-29 01:15:51 GMT from United States)
At this point, you might consider the possibility that (a) there is something wrong with your wireless card, or (b) you have not set up the wireless network properly. Broadcom 43xx is bad, but it shouldn't be this bad.
193 • @ 161 stupid forum statistics (by mikkh on 2007-11-29 01:18:56 GMT from United Kingdom)
Doh and double doh !
So a high forum membership is good huh?
It's not a sign of how good the distro is - just the opposite in fact
It means there are lots and LOTS of people with problems.
People join forums because they need help, so I count a high forum membership as a sign of failure - not success
194 • post 192 (by Jerry on 2007-11-29 01:25:32 GMT from United States)
No.. the cards and routers work fine in Vista.
I'll post back about Sabayon.
195 • AntiX (by Anonymous on 2007-11-29 02:26:34 GMT from United States)
Just tested AntiX. Running Abiword, the total memory usage is 37 MB. That's awesome!!! Especially considering that it's nice looking and configured usefully.
196 • A few comments (by Dark Phoenix on 2007-11-29 04:51:16 GMT from Canada)
First of all, when did it become popular to bash any packaging system that isn't dpkg/apt? Do the bashers not realize how much of a major PITA it is to make Debian packages? There is a reason the LSB uses a subset of rpm, you know.
Secondly, KDE4. Backwards because it doesn't have as many features VISIBLE TO THE USER? This isn't Windows, you know; people don't concentrate on the GUI and neglect the rest here. KDE4's entire base has been rewritten; you might not see that in fancy interfaces, but I imagine you can see it in performance. It's being released now in hopes that developers currently using KDE3 will switch to it and start porting their programs, thereby giving people reasons to run KDE4 again. And seriously, rewriting the backend is much harder than rewriting the front.
Third, Fedora's hardware detection is a decade behind? According to what? My hardware always gets detected perfectly, and I still find the rpm system to work way better than the dpkg system when it comes to installing and writing packages. I left Debian/Ubuntu and don't intend to go back; Fedora and Mandriva/PCLinuxOS run much better.
197 • New 'Intel" [experimental] driver causes serious (by Linux Regression on 2007-11-29 06:15:04 GMT from Australia)
The following distros (or distro editions) have display issues on the hardware below: Pardus 2007 and 2007.3, Fedora 7 (finally fixed in Fedora 8), Sidux, Mandriva 2008 and Mint 4.0 (Light).
Hardware: Acer Aspire 1640 series notebook
Processor: Intel Pentium M 760 / 2 GHz
Chipset Type: Mobile Intel 915GM Express
Display Type: 15.4" TFT active matrix
Max Resolution: 1280 x 800 ( WXGA )
Widescreen Display: Yes
Colour support: 24-bit (16.7 million colours)
Pardus 2007.3 and Mint 4 live CDs are the latest culprits that suffer from garbled desktop and the oversized font syndrome. Pretty disappointing to see Mint 4.0 with very serious display issues as the Mint 2.0 version was perfect in recognising this very same hardware. Also, Ubuntu 7.10, on which Mint 4.0 is based, worked quite OK, except for small issue caused by the default "normal" setting of desktop/windows effects option (turning it off was the fix).
If I feel up to it, I might put some bug reports in for Pardus and Mint.
198 • Q 191 :Radically simple questions about the Package Managt Huge Issues (by dbrion on 2007-11-29 07:39:19 GMT from France)
"I guess I see package management as the major hindering to Linux desktop propagation in general"
Is there any different info in rpms than in debs?
If yes, how can alien / smart manage *both*?
If, at a given time, one format management is slow/buggy, does it mean that it is essentiallly, forever buggy/slow?
Can you prove that every rpm package management is buggy?
If it is just slow, this can be fixed by some rewriting or just with time, as there is sometimes HW technological progress?
Do you think that ordinary users, *once satisfied*, intensively need package management?
199 • Opera reload (by welkiner on 2007-11-29 10:44:32 GMT from United States)
Why does Opera always move back to the top of the page after reloading the Comments page. It doesn't do that on the main page, or any other page that I know of.
200 • follow-up on Antix (by Caraibes on 2007-11-29 10:52:02 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Antix is very nice on my dinosaur laptop ! Good choice of app, very small memory footprint. Easy install, I am impressed !
Yet, there's the wifi problem, and that dumb RTL8180 wifi pcmcia card only works in Ubuntu usually...
Anyway, I am currently downloading the alternate Xubuntu to use with Fluxbox on this very old laptop...
It is fun to experiment... I might try Tinyflux as a live-cd, to see if it works fine with my wifi card...
201 • What's putting people off? (by KimTjik on 2007-11-29 11:52:39 GMT from Sweden)
Object for discussion: Fedora.
I'm puzzled by seeing so many posts in this section of DW giving Fedora bad critique. That's also the reason behind my choice of subject. Some claim bad hardware detection, which doesn't make any sense at all to me. I don't say Fedora is perfect, but if there's one distro in its category that has had the best success rate of detecting hardware on the by now maybe 20+ computers I've ran tests on (all kinds of combinations of Intel, AMD, VIA, ATI, Nvidia and so on) it is Fedora. No distro is perfect in this department, but to generalize in terms of "bad hardware detection" you got to specify more precisely what actual issue you're dealing with. I've experienced hardware issues when using Knoppix, Puppy, Ubuntu, PCLinuxOS, Mint, BLAG, Sabayon, OpenSuse, Frugalware and... let's stop here. Conclusion? There's no reason to generally criticize a distribution based on some personal experience.
What might put off people, even though I don't view these points as valid:
- Fedora (RedHat) keeps true to its principle about free software
- Fedora doesn't flirt with desktop users
- Fedora has the courage to pioneer new solutions (potentially not hassle free)
- Fedora focus on some aspects of computing which is over the top for most home desktop users (like virtualization by Xen)
What RedHat and Fedora does will in the end gain all distributions of Linux. We might have our favorite distributions, and some have nice inventive features, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they help or drive the development of Linux in its entirety.
Package management in Fedora is slower, but I agree with dbrion on this. The default update service with its GUI front-end does start up slow, but does it work? Has it failed? In my experience it's very reliable and that's what counts (bear in mind Fedoras (RedHats) main objective). Some other GUI front-ends for easy searching of packages like Yumex work well, yes they also start up slow, but they are reliable. In Yumex for example you can skip a mirror which seems to work slow and get on to another one which is faster (there's a button in Yumex for this, so no difficult tweaking is needed).
You don't judge a playstation for not being a good office system, just like you shouldn't judge Fedora on the wrong premises.
Epilog with an up-date concerning Mint 4.0:
Has anyone else experienced flaky window behavior? I don't no if it's because of poor package quality or what, but games like Wesnoth doesn't work with full screen "on" (it keeps on running in a windows with panels appearing and disappearing all the time), Torcs when closed still stays on the desktop, not running, but like a "wallpaper", and some other non-game applications does the same. OK, now the system isn't with me anymore - the boys got it yesterday and Arch will run the main show for them - so I don't have the possibility to make any bug reports.
In both Arch and Mint I did configure Dansguardian, both with a transparent proxy and without ("Public Fox" is a good add-on for Firefox when tightening up security using a non-transparent proxy, or just to avoid Firefox getting messed up). I didn't know about Dansguardian until some concerned parents made me search for a solution. I have to admit that it works better than I ever would expect (oh yeh, I had to for testing purposes play the role of a pervert trying to find dirty material on the Internet, but fortunately I totally failed!).
202 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-11-29 13:39:42 GMT from United States)
> Fedora has the courage to pioneer new solutions (potentially not hassle free)
So having an OS that doesn't work is not a valid criticism? Like when you use Fedora for a couple of weeks and then all of a sudden try something new, as you are migrating to it, and find out that this is cutting edge, and will work in maybe three months, after you file a bug report and maybe someone is interested in fixing it?
> you shouldn't judge Fedora on the wrong premises
True, but they don't clearly state that Fedora is only suitable for finding bugs, rather than doing work. They present it as a distro that can be used as an everyday system. If you want to actually get work done, you better not use Fedora, because it will eventually fail you. If you only play with your machine, Fedora is fine, because it doesn't matter if you have to reinstall or install a different distro.
And yes, package management is still not anywhere near as good with Fedora as with most of the big distros.
This is kind of a sore spot with me because I had been moving to Fedora 7, and got educated about the meaning of living on the edge with my OS. I lost a couple of days before I had everything back working on my distro of choice. It doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy when Fedora devs and users respond to legitimate criticism by saying my concerns are only because I don't know how to judge a distro.
It has problems. The Fedora community should recognize them.
203 • RE: 201 --About Fedora's hardware detection (by IMQ on 2007-11-29 13:50:16 GMT from United States)
Fedora has not been a choice for me on one of my computers with RT2500-based PCI wireless card, the only way to connect to the internet. It completely failed to detect the card, even with the recent Fedora 8.
The following distros detected the card:
- PCLinuxOS 0.93 and later
- Ubuntu 6.06 and later
- Pardus 2007 and later (a relative new distro)
- Mandriva 2006 (I think, definitely 2007 and 2008)
- Sidux (not sure when it first detected the card)
- Kuliax 6.0 (a Debian-Etch based, I think)
- Dream Linux 2.2
- Parsix 0.90r0 and later
- openSUSE 10.3
Of these, PCLinuxOS and Mandriva were the first to make it easy to configure the wireless settings via their own control center. The others were initially configured by running the script manually to set WPA and obtaining IP address.
Also, the many other distros based on these also detected and support the card.
Why Fedora does not support this card is beyond me since other big players (Ubuntu, Mandriva, openSUSE) all support it now? I don't know, but it keeps me from considering Fedora as an option for this PC.
Right now, I have Fedora 8 on one PC with an on-board Ethernet port and it seem to be working fine overall. YUM is still slow although it feels faster than before.
Anyway, that was my experience with Fedora so far.
204 • RE 202 (by KimTjik on 2007-11-29 14:14:43 GMT from Sweden)
I didn't say Fedora is perfect. It isn't. No Linux distribution is prefect. One of the most popular distribution hasn't been able to run on some of my systems for years, still many view it as a top distribution. If that's the case, and if bug reports don't seem to change anything in such a distribution, why then should we single out Fedora and make them look like the bad boy among distributions? Who's experience can serve as ultimately objective, a measurement of good and bad? Am I the user who don't accept "legitimate criticism", and have developers directly told you that your concern isn't worth their attention?
The only annoyance (which I wasn't so dependent on anyway) in many years was the new firewire-stack, which didn't work well with some video-cameras. What proves do you have that the developers don't care about bugs? Do you know for sure what load of work they have, thus being able to judge whether they do their utmost or not? It's easy for us as users to complain since we're not the ones who have to fix it (but a user could very well contribute to the solution).
"If you want to actually get work done, you better not use Fedora, because it will eventually fail you."
Difficult for me to comment, besides referring to my own experience. No Fedora system has ever failed me, or been in need of a fresh install. And yes, I use Fedora as my working desktop system in a otherwise Microsoft oriented working environment (I'm sure my employer would kick me out if I would have lost working hours because I chose to have a system that "eventually fail".
So do you see my point: you find issues, unsolved bugs and misunderstandings on forums in all distributions. Still many of them deserves respect for helping Linux as a whole to improve. If you don't like, or you simply find a particular distribution difficult to administrate, why not chose another? Just because something doesn't get fixed when we expect it, doesn't necessarily mean that developers don't recognize them (you write community, but that makes the whole issue a lot more complicated, since a community consists of all kinds of users, knowledgeable or novices, and some are nice and others annoying).
205 • A quick question on GNOME Desktop (by IMQ on 2007-11-29 14:32:13 GMT from United States)
Does anyone know if there is a way to configure the GNOME desktop so that when right-click button or middle-click the mousewheel will give access to the menu listing?
For example, KDE can be configured so that when I press the mousewheel, I can access the K-menu listing.
Or similar, in XFCE or Fluxbox, I can right-click the mouse button to access the menu listing?
This is one of the things I don't like about GNOME. Also, there is no easy way to edit the menu like in KDE.
206 • Comments (by Guilherme on 2007-11-29 14:40:02 GMT from Brazil)
Well, the Mint is an excellent distribution and managed to improve the Ubuntu also excellent. I think this is a good way and I see no reason to change. This is what I think.
207 • antiX (by anticapitalista on 2007-11-29 14:58:59 GMT from Greece)
#200 • follow-up on Antix by Caraibes
Have you tried getting it to work with ndiswrapper?
208 • Re:207 (by Caraibes on 2007-11-29 16:04:08 GMT from Dominican Republic)
-"Have you tried getting it to work with ndiswrapper?"
-No, because I don't even have the Windows drivers (I don't have Windows on that laptop)... But maybe I should...
I was quite happy with Antix, as it proves a great distro for older hardware... The RTL8180 wifi pcmcia card is (as usual) the problem... For some reason, it only worked well in Ubuntu Dapper...
209 • antiX (by anticapitalista on 2007-11-29 16:11:58 GMT from Greece)
"I was quite happy with Antix, as it proves a great distro for older hardware... The RTL8180 wifi pcmcia card is (as usual) the problem... For some reason, it only worked well in Ubuntu Dapper..."
I think the antiX Spartacus might just work with that wifi card out-of-the-box as it is based on Ubuntu Dapper.
Glad you like antiX.
210 • Fedora (by Anonymous on 2007-11-29 17:37:00 GMT from Malaysia)
Several references to desktop systems/users in both your posts made me wonder whether any of the "the by now maybe 20+ computers" you set up with Fedora were notebooks.
#210: "Fedora doesn't flirt with desktop users .... "
#204: "I use Fedora as my working desktop system"
My only issue with Fedora is that Network Manager doesn't work on an Acer Aspire 1694 with ipw 2200 or with an RT2500 USB adapter on a Dell Optiplex. Network Manager didn't work in Fedora 7 either - there are several threads on this topic on the Fedora forums - which seems to suggest that wireless support and notebook users are not a priority for Fedora. On the plus side, Fedora 8 finally boots into a graphical desktop with the open-source ati driver on the Acer notebook (which is an improvement on vesa with Fedora 7). Fedora seems to focus on "some aspects of computing which is over the top for most home desktop users" (SELinux and LVM, for example) and is therefore likely to remain primarily a testing ground for RHEL (and workstations) rather than a distro for home users or "hobbyists".
211 • 210: Typo (by Anonymous on 2007-11-29 17:40:31 GMT from Malaysia)
It should have been
#201: "Fedora doesn't flirt with desktop users .... "
212 • Re:209 and 210 (by Caraibes on 2007-11-29 17:55:57 GMT from Dominican Republic)
To Anticapitalista, thank for the tip, I shall download Antix Spartacus later on and try it. I will post my feedback here...
Now to address the issue of Fedora, I have had Fedora (and Fedora based Blag) on my main desktop for a long while, that would be FC3, FC5, FC6, F7 and now F8. I have always been very satisfied. Everything worked better than with the other distros (on that particular hardware). I never had any instability issues. I am mostly a SOHO user, but I have been trying most distros since about 3 years now.
I am a happy Fedora user, but I also enjoy other distros, such as Debian, *Buntu, Mandriva.
213 • Desktop or notebook (by KimTjik on 2007-11-29 20:05:46 GMT from Sweden)
When it comes to notebooks I'm not a good source. The now old notebook I own runs Slackware. I recognize that some notebook users are struggling with wire-less support in Fedora. So to the several "anonymous" (why this anonymity when you might post without giving out any Email address? It's so easy when I see the "stick guy" and "dbrion" and others, but anonymous is a whole bunch of folks) are addressing a problem I know very little about. All of you might be right in the conclusion that Fedora isn't a great choice at the moment for notebooks.
To explain why I'm not interested in notebooks:
- I want computer free zones
- I don't like the idea of being connected all the time, just like I sometimes decide to leave the cellphone at home or shut it down
- For wireless the same reasons as above
- I'm fiddling with computer hardware a lot, and in this aspect notebooks aren't very fun
I'm not against notebooks, it's just me avoiding additional stress. Too many are getting stressed nowadays by not being able to be "disconnected" a single day.
So what would you notbook users say: what distributions are most hassle free?
214 • RE: #33 Upgrades of Long Term Releases (by Eddie Wilson on 2007-11-29 20:08:03 GMT from United States)
Just a note. In Ubuntu one long term release can be upgraded to the next long term release.
Thank You, Eddie
215 • notebook users - #213 (by ray carter at 2007-11-29 20:12:17 GMT from United States)
When I tried Ubuntu 7.04 on my Gateway M305 laptop, the display and the DLink WNA2330 wireless card both worked with no additional fussing. I've not tried Fedora on it recently, but I will when the next Linux Pro issue comes - I understand the DVD next month will be Fedora 8. I did recently try OpenSuSE 10.3. The display was all right, but mad-wifi for the dlink card was not installed by default and I could not find it on the distribution DVD. I don't plan to hardwire the laptop to get wireless working when there are distros, like Ubuntu, that do that. Sabayon also worked flawlessly. It's a shame that SuSE has fallen so far - I recall when it was a premium distro with unparalleled hardware detection and setup.
216 • post 213 "KimTjik" (by Anonymous on 2007-11-29 20:28:24 GMT from United States)
Comment deleted (offensive).
217 • #216 (by RC on 2007-11-29 20:32:31 GMT from United States)
Gee...that added a lot to the conversation...very productive. Other than disagreeing, his answers seemed respectful and well thought out. What is the problem?
218 • #25: earphones (by Susan (srlinuxx) on 2007-11-29 22:08:49 GMT from United States)
I knew that it shut the internal speakers off when plugging in external speakers, which use the same jack, but I just went back and double checked the earphones and Yes, it works as it should shutting off the internal speakers here. I have Altec Lansing MCP51 sound (nvidia) and it uses the hda_intel module (or snd_hda_intel).
219 • Re:213 (by Caraibes on 2007-11-29 22:09:54 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Indeed, Kim, I am also a "desktop guy", as I usually get to "canibalize" a lot of (old) hardware, so my experience with Fedora has always been on a desktop PC.
I own 2 (older) laptops, a Mac iBook G3 (ppc), that dual-boots OSX 10.2 and Ubuntu Dapper ppc... I am not totally satisfied, but ppc is dying in the Linux world.
My other "dinosaur" laptop is the Toshiba SatellitePro 4300 (Celeron 496Mhz, 192 megs of ram). I have a RTL8180 pcmcia wifi card, and I happen to be installing Xubuntu Gutsy right now, as I am looking for a good distro for that laptop...
Antix is great, I think it is the best "small" distro now. Wolvix is really good too, but in english only. Neither work with mi wifi card. I'll try Antix Spartacus as a live-cd tomorrow...
For laptops, usually Ubuntu seems to be the best... That is because of wifi drivers.
For desktops, Debian, Fedora, Mandriva... Ubuntu as well...
RHEL clones... Read Béranger's blog... It's a whole story...
220 • Small distros (by anticapitalista on 2007-11-29 22:54:00 GMT from Greece)
There are now a lot of very good small distros out there based on 'mother' distros, as well as the known Puppy and DSL.
tinyflux and tinyme-PCLOS
are some of my favourites (in that order)
I think we are seeing a revival (if that is the right word) of small to medium distros that aim at PII/PIII/K5/K6 128-256 RAM boxes.
Of course Puppy and DSL can run very well on much less, but I think there is a 'need' for a full-blown installed desktop/laptop experience at a level higher.
The distros I mention above all have easy installation, a good set of default apps and a good to excellent upgrade path. (IMO this is what Puppy and DSL lack, though both are excellent distros in their own right)
It would be nice for distrowatch to do (another?) comparisons of these light-mid range distros. I think users would find it very useful.
221 • Linux Mint (by Gabor on 2007-11-30 00:12:06 GMT from Canada)
I personally think, that the Linux Mint is a very successful distro and even the packages are quite decent. The only reason why I would not even use Mint is that it does not have a separate ROOT account, what is a big security risk.
Linux without a root account is like a bike without a wheel.
222 • RE: 214 (by caterpillar on 2007-11-30 00:13:28 GMT from United States)
"In Ubuntu one long term release can be upgraded to the next long term release."
Maybe it can, maybe it can't. We don't know that yet.
223 • @213 (by [soŋtsɛ kampo] on 2007-11-30 00:38:13 GMT from Malaysia)
"So what would you notbook users say: what distributions are most hassle free?"
I have Mandriva 2007.1, Suse 10.3 and Ubuntu 7.10 on an Acer Aspire 1694 (Pentium M, ATI X700) and haven't had any problems with the basics (graphics, sound and wireless). Mandriva One 2008 defaults to fglrx and has some issues with X. Haven't tried 2008 Free yet.
224 • RE: 221 • Linux Mint (by IMQ on 2007-11-30 01:44:26 GMT from United States)
You can enable the root account, if that is really the only reason holding you back.
Also, if my understanding is correct, only the first user account created during the initial installation can run as sudoer.
I too prefer to have a regular user account and the usual root account, but I haven't found a compelling reason to a *must* have root account.
225 • Root (by welkiner on 2007-11-30 03:21:42 GMT from United States)
Since every distro that I'm aware of has su, sudo, or sudo su, I don't understand the need for a seperate root account to log in to. Back in the mid nineties, I remember on more than one occasion, suddenly realizing that I had been logged in as root for days. Never said I was the sharpest tool in the shed.
After I switched to Mepis, I never had that problem anymore. That red screen was a dead give away!
After a couple years of Mepis I refused to even try Ubuntu, because I was not about to use Linux without a root account. I do have my self respect!
When the Dapper came out I finally bit the bullet and tried it... after much research (for me) on the security of Ubuntu's rendition of sudo.
Less then a year later I discovered Mint Barbara and I've been a happy camper every since, right up to Daryna!
Typically, on a server or a system log in for administration, I will log in as root, accomplish my task and get out.
I know that there must be some reason that I might need to log into my home desktop or laptop as root, but for the life of me, right now, I can't imagine what it is.
...And if that occasion ever arises, with Mint Assistant, it takes about 5 mouse clicks to set it up.
In many situations, I really do think that sudo is safer than a root account.
Keep one hand on the stick and the other one on the throttle,
226 • RE 213 Anonymity and some nice aspects of laptops (by dbrion on 2007-11-30 10:14:12 GMT from France)
"why this anonymity when you might post without giving out any Email address?"
Pple can post anonymously if they do not want their colleagues/friends/pupils to recognise them (I thought of this after reading 30% of the anonympous posts there); it is sometimes necessary to be anonymous (proof-checkers must be anonymous, else they would be badly ennoyed by the writers/writers hierarchy....)
I agree that desktops are more funny than laptops for pple who like hardware, but, it takes time, and, if oone grows old, one should not play too much with HW, even if it is tempting....
Wireless links are interesting , as one has less wiring mess up, but it seems very unstable to-day...
227 • mint--keep it simple (by jim on 2007-11-30 10:50:03 GMT from United States)
as one new to linux it seems way too much energy is spent on countless variatons vs really ensuring easy and stable integration with key apps and out of the box user needs.
so for me making ubuntu more user friendly is 1000 times more important than making mint based on debian or fedora.
228 • 227 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-30 12:45:00 GMT from United States)
This is a common view, to be sure, but I believe it represents a misunderstanding. Microsoft tries many variations of Windows, but it's all kept inside a building in Redmond, WA. Free software is developed openly. Eventually most innovations make it to the small number of popular distros, but you must experiment in order to get those innovations. There is no way to know what you will get until you put out different versions of Mint.
Additionally, there are many variations of computing. Hence there will be a need for customization of the OS. That is one harmful aspect of Microsoft's monopoly. Every Windows box is exactly the same as the next. There is no version to match AntiX. There are no versions for those of different faiths. There is no version for those who want only free software. There is no version for those wanting specific proprietary driver support. There is no version to match Scientific Linux or ParallelKnoppix.
I would argue there are too few Linux distros rather than too many. It is commonly said that "Linux developers should spend their time improving existing distros rather than making new ones." Yet that type of substitution is not possible. Making new distros, though, does make the existing distros better.
229 • @50 ; HP laptops (by William Barath on 2007-11-30 15:24:51 GMT from Canada)
I have no idea what you are talking about. HP has been very friendly to the linux camp for a very long time.
For this reason I purchased a business model HP laptop, the nx6125, expecting it to work well. I admit that I had some issues, but it was only because I am an AMD fan and chose an AMD/ATI based model that I had any real difficulty.
The wireless was supported by the kernel at the time I bought it, the cardreader (albeit I took a year to find out how to activate it) the real issues have been with the CPU's throttling features, the BIOS, and the "X300" mobility PCI-E 3D from ATI which has unfortunately not been reverse-engineered by the DRI folks and comes with some of the most average (read: "unstable") drivers ATI has ever perpetrated against the public.
My suggestion is to get an Intel-based laptop, preferably with Intel IGP, because the 3D performance is decent and stability is top-notch. The only real drawback to HP is the pricetag. :-/
230 • @228 (by [soŋtsɛŋ kampo] on 2007-11-30 16:02:29 GMT from Malaysia)
"Eventually most innovations make it to the small number of popular distros, but you must experiment in order to get those innovations... Making new distros, though, does make the existing distros better."
This is generally true except that some distros seem to consist of bits and pieces of other distros (e.g., PCLOS), a change of desktop environment (most of the *buntu family), addition or removal of non-free software (Mint/gNewSense) .... which doesn't result in significant innovations that "make the existing distros better".
231 • #230 (by RC on 2007-11-30 16:20:45 GMT from United States)
I would have to strongly disagree. PCLOS and Mint are much more stable and user friendly in my experience than their "parent" distro's. If the parent distro would follow the lead of their "child" distro's then they would become redundant and fade away. Ubuntu obviously is not....not sure about Mandriva. These distro's fix bugs and add packages that are of great benefit to those that use them and make a better distro than the parent that spawned them.
232 • @231 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-30 16:33:37 GMT from Malaysia)
"(PCLOS and Mint) fix bugs and add packages that are of great benefit to those that use them and make a better distro than the parent that spawned them."
Can you give some examples of bugs that were fixed by PCLOS and Mint devs?
233 • #232 (by RC on 2007-11-30 16:54:37 GMT from United States)
No, what I can tell you is the they run stably and reliably on my equipment and the parent distro's don't.
234 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-11-30 17:31:37 GMT from United States)
I think this gets to one of the points I made. You may feel more comfortable with PCLinuxOS than with Mandriva, so that is what you should use. It would be inefficient for all of the thousands of PCLOS users to start with Mandriva and customize it to look like PCLOS.
235 • KDE4 or any app or project and unjustified expectations. (by Landor on 2007-11-30 18:09:16 GMT from Canada)
There's been a bit of talk this week regarding KDE4, it's usage, future or present, and it's current functionality. One thing people have to remember that with anything there are bumps in the road. Ever had everything going right for you and then life threw you a curve? Same scenario. That's what the term development means. I myself have been involved in numerous projects, though not computer related that we had to rethink our time line because of outside and internal factors forever changing, it's what makes life what it is. So in a sense harshly judging something known as a development stage is not appropriate at best.
Another thing to look at, especially when in regard to new developments is the community. How many distributions have we seen released that haven't even adopted the 3.5.8 version yet? It's been said here time and time again, if it works why changed it, and if it doesn't, why use it?
That's one of the biggest problems I find in "distro-hopping" and short release cycles. Everyone has unwarranted expectations on the developers. If I release a product after a month or less of building and testing is there going to be issues? Sure there are. But the community will jump up and say, what a crappy distro, that's garbage, what are they doing over there. It's simple what they're doing, taking ideas, and distributing the test bed out to the community. Maybe that is wrong, but for a community that seems bent on innovation and surpassing other operating systems it's the most likely outcome.
For anyone who actually wants something to work perfectly for what they need it to do, find a distribution or app with a very long release cycle and stick with it instead of changing even every 6 months to a year at the least. You're putting undue and unjustified expectations on the apps and distros, as well as the developers by being overly critical if you choose otherwise.
Keep your stick on the ice...
236 • @234 (by Anonymous on 2007-11-30 18:13:12 GMT from France)
Come on, you know that he's saying something else. He said reliable and stable, not comfortable. He never talked about looks. Let's not twist other people's words.
237 • Re:220, Small distros (by Caraibes on 2007-11-30 18:23:00 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Indeed, Anticapitalista, I totally agree on your vision of small distros, and I am very happy to count with AntiX in the top selection.
This morning I installed AntiX Spartacus... No success with wifi... I can see the big progress you made with AntiX M7, which is really good.
Anyway, I also booted TinyFlux, to make sure, but no wifi as well...
So I installed Xubuntu Gutsy 7.10... Wifi wouldn't let the PC boot after being set up (just like Mint)...
And now, I am back to Xubuntu Dapper 6.06.1, wifi worked at once, like a charm...
-Amazing, no ?
Dapper is the only distro that can handle the RTL8180 wifi card !!!
What I plan to do from the Xubuntu Dapper base, is to install Fluxbox, and basically the same choice of apps as AntiX M7...
238 • @60 - KDE/Gnome etc. menu structures (by Andy Bovett on 2007-11-30 23:12:26 GMT from United Kingdom)
I think you're missing the point - the menu structure is a function of the distro, not the desktop environment. KDE does not impose a particular structure, and you will find that (for example) Ubuntu (Gnome) and Kubuntu (KDE) have very similar menu structures.
239 • Re 144 • Stop please (by Ultra on 2007-11-30 23:12:27 GMT from Canada)
Relax dude....and keep your stick on the ice...
> Can you stop with the stick on the ice thing? Its getting extremely annoying... PLEASE
240 • November donation (by ladislav on 2007-11-30 23:55:30 GMT from Taiwan)
It's a new month again (at least here in Taiwan). Any suggestions for a donation?
241 • @234 (by RC on 2007-12-01 00:15:22 GMT from United States)
As @236 pointed out, I was not referring to looks at all. I was referring to the stability and usability of the distro.
242 • RE: 115 (by Anonymous on 2007-12-01 00:20:44 GMT from United States)
I use only Debian repositories.
I have used Debian long before Woody, but only rolled it up since Woody.
Debian just works.
Etch has been the first to be extreemly solid with it's initial release.
I don't recall Etch ever crashing yet.
Some apps do crash, but the overall OS does not.
I currently run Debian on a P2-333 with Windowmaker on Xorg.
I don't beleve in desktop managers. Too many un-needed extra daemons.
Desktop managers seem to slow down good computers like some other commercial operating systems. Simple window managers are much quicker.
The Apt upgrade process is not bad, not totally easy either.
If you follow the Debian Wiki's instructions it basically works.
No major down time, but my machine is not a Server; it's a Workstation.
Now I only use Aptitude since it marks sub packages for better cleanup.
I only wish that Aptitude would offer Purge instead of Delete on Auto removal.
Anyways, Debian for me is Rock Solid and works.
243 • Antix (by RC on 2007-12-01 00:22:08 GMT from United States)
A buddy of mine came over earlier this week with his old laptop wanting to find a linux version to install on it. We had tried Puppy some time ago, but it was confusing for him and didn't do everything he wanted. We tried numerous versions and either they wouldn't work with his wifi or he had a problem using them. I downloaded and burned the lated Antix and as soon as it booted up he fell in love with it. I was very impressed with the look as well. Not a all like DSL or some of the other "plain jane" small distro's. The wifi came up with the ssid and password. We installed it and he was a very happy camper. Great small distro,
244 • Donations (by pepa on 2007-12-01 01:43:54 GMT from Canada)
After reading through alI the comments, I thought AntiX, but then I looked at previous donations, and noticed that Mepis had never received a donation..! So either of these I'd like to propose for a DistroWatch Donation!
245 • 236, 241 (by Anonymous on 2007-12-01 02:01:00 GMT from United States)
So? I was talking about looks, and if you guys use just a little bit of imagination, you can see that what I said also applies in other areas.
246 • RE: 238 (by IMQ on 2007-12-01 02:25:47 GMT from United States)
I believe someone already pointed out to me that the heavily nested menu is found, it seems, in Mandriva only.
Although I hadn't checked all other distros, I agreed that Mandriva was the one that gave me that impression that the menu structure is not very efficient.
After reading that comment I did a quick check on Debian and another distro as well as Mandriva to confirm it.
247 • Debian Menu System Structure (by RandyPenguin on 2007-12-01 03:02:34 GMT from United States)
''The menu package was inspired by the install-fvwm2-menu program from the old fvwm2 package. However, menu tries to provide a more general interface for menu building. With the update-menus command from this package, no package needs to be modified for every X window manager again, and it provides a unified interface for both text- and X-oriented programs.''
May 13, 2006
* Re: Bug#361418: [Proposal] new Debian menu structure, Bill Allombert,
The menu structure define the list of sections and subsections of
the Debian menu system (which are displayed in window-managers menus).
The official list is part of the Debian menu subpolicy. This list is a
bit outdated, so we are proposing an update.''
248 • #247 Menu Structure (by RandyPenguin on 2007-12-01 03:09:11 GMT from United States)
Oh and the The Debian Menu sub-policy
If you have a package which doesn't fit within the existing menu hierarchy, please bring it up on the debian-devel mailing list. If you have other proposals for changing the menu hierarchy, or making other changes to menu policy, please bring it up on debian-policy.
2.1 Preferred menu structure
Here is the authoritative list of Debian's menu structure. Please do not put your packages into any other sections without asking for permission first!
interactive database programs
text editors, word processors
educational and training programs
wine, dosemu, etc.
anything relating to ham radio
math related programs
network programs that don't fit elsewhere
simple apps, like clocks, that perform only one task
text oriented tools other than editors
bash, ksh, zsh, etc.
sound players and editors
system administration and monitoring tools
games and recreations
walk around virtual space, zork, MOO's, etc
any game where reflexes count
games played on a board
games involving a deck of cards
tests of ingenuity and logic
Simulations of the real world (Flight Simulators, for example)
games derived from "real world" sports
games involving long term strategic thinking
games involving falling blocks
amusements, eye-candy, etc.
programs that provide user documentation
programs that affect the whole screen
programs to lock the screen
things that fill the root window
X window managers
window manager modules
xterm and its brethren
249 • RE: 240 December Donation (by Landor on 2007-12-01 05:57:30 GMT from Canada)
I honestly think MEPIS warrants a donation. Given his reasoning behind some of the delays. What the man has done in the past for many users. It would be a nice gesture, especially at this time of the year when so few have done it.
Keep your stick on the ice...
250 • donation (by kanishka on 2007-12-01 09:27:12 GMT from Italy)
I support the MEPIS donation idea
251 • donation (by glenn on 2007-12-01 09:52:44 GMT from Canada)
I agree with the Mepis donation also. This distro has been around since about 2002 and is really a fine piece of work. It would be nice to see that project get a bit of a boost.
252 • Donations (RE 240) and Pardus (by dbrion on 2007-12-01 10:08:05 GMT from France)
I agree with Mepis, too : it can make old PCs owners happy, and, in the long term, virtualization amateurs can be very satisfied with a tiny RAM footprint and great linguistic efforts (they go much farther than adding British English to american English!!!).
Pardus has already institutional support AFAIK; I noticed Pardus in 2004/2005, as I was trying to catch an old PC (which died before I could buy it...) and to put an OS inside it. Pardus claimed to be light weighted, but was monolingual...and I do not know Turkish...
This year, Pardus has been descived as having great potentials (cf rglk, here, some months earlier) and has French (thanks to Canadian translators, meseems). and Catalan recognition. This is a nice feature of adding (not radically stupidly removing from one's base distr, and asking for VOlunteers to fix it,
adding) obviously interesting features.
What is ironical is that it was claimed, one year ago, they would not add French! They seem modest and not too much PR oriented...
The live CDROM is disappointing, as the starting menus are complicated and there is an unnecessary, short timeout (elive does not). One has no time to understand it/ show it to other ppple/ admire it....
The installation CD is very straightforward (these menu blunders occur just once!) , at least when emulated: default options (one partition for everything is simple and one does not regret having to short a /home and too long a /usr, say -lvm would add a soft layer and delays!!-
What I found very interesting is that , unlike many binary linuxen, one does not need to hunt for header packages (dev. packages in RH, Cygwin and Mandriva'"s terminology) to be able to compile softs who are not shipped (one one CD... Mandriva has 3 CDs!) => I could compile my fav. apps without any trouble and extra work, and try other less favourite (just being debugged ) ones...
253 • donation (by RandyPenguin on 2007-12-01 10:43:53 GMT from United States)
MEPIS 3.4-3 was my first x86 distribution. It took me almost 4 weeks to download on dial-up due to corruptions.
It was disappointing to see W take the *untu route, fortunately he saw the error of his ways and the new release is turning out to be a best of breed that will likely be a sharp competitor for some time. It is one of the most important if not the most important Debian distribution ( aside from proper and sid(ux ) in existence. It would be a travesty if this distro did anything other than thrive. I will pledge a contribution to this project as well as Debian proper, sidux and KDE(4).
254 • Caixa Mágica (by RandyPenguin on 2007-12-01 11:11:11 GMT from United States)
"The most interesting change is the fact that this release is no longer based on openSUSE ... but on Mandriva Linux 2008. ...packages are now managed with APT and Synaptic ...Mandriva Control Centre is used for general system configuration. ...includes the proprietary ATI and NVIDIA graphics drivers and supports popular media codecs.
Wow, what a new and innovative idea guys. Keep up the good work
making every distro Radically Simple (or in *ubu's case Simply Radical).
Oh wait, it's based off of '08, so maybe this one really will be Radically Simpler!?
255 • HOW MANY LINUX DISTROS ARE THERE...REALLY!!?? (by Canadian Tire on 2007-12-01 12:30:43 GMT from Canada)
There should be some sort of categorization, like here are the 10 REAL distros to start with, next level is the 40 children that have some sort of innovation that warrants them being 2nd tier distros, and finally here are the 600 3rd tier distros that are just basically knockoffs of first and second tier distros with different themes or menu layouts.
The discussions in the reader comment section would kind of change don't you think? Maybe some more productive discussions on what level a distro belongs, rather than who has the highest page rankings. Maybe it would encourage more innovation to get into the elite 1st tier rather than (possibly) developing strategies to get the most page hits.
256 • Small distros, donations... etc... (by Caraibes on 2007-12-01 13:13:47 GMT from Dominican Republic)
As of the donation... I would say AntiX sounds good... Mepis isn't a bad idea either... Both have their place in the Linux world...
As of my follow-up on my good ol'Toshiba SatellitePro 4300 laptop (celeron 496Mhz, 192 megs of ram, and that darn RTL8180 wifi card), well, I am back to Xubuntu Dapper, and as old and outdated a it might be, the *Buntu Dapper is the only one who can deal with mi RTL8180 wifi card !!!
Yes, it sucks to use Dapper because Firefox is still at 1.5.0.x, Gaim is still Gaim 1.5.x... But the idea of a laptop is to be able to move... Otherwise I just use my (many) desktops...
Too bad, as I really enjoyed AntiX M7... Another laptop or desktop, maybe...
257 • Guadalinex a example (by Luis Medina on 2007-12-01 14:54:26 GMT from Mexico)
I remember when guadalinex come out and was very weel designer gui distribution, but some basics missed like ubs and 3d efects. Now based on ubuntu 7.10 a lot of thinks change. The mos important about guadalinex proyect its the localization and implementarion on his region and many goberments muts see this benefits for community.
258 • Donation (by octathlon on 2007-12-01 17:08:02 GMT from United States)
Mepis gets my vote, too. I put it at the top of the Debian-based + KDE distros.
259 • Sabayon did it (wifi) (by Jerry on 2007-12-01 18:24:56 GMT from United States)
The new Sabayon is not installed and running and I am ON THE INTERNET VIA WIFI! (sorry about the caps :)).
What a relieve. It's doing its thing.. I did have to use "915resolution 58 1280 800" in a terminal to get the display correct, but that's about it; everything seems to be fine and working well enough to leave the Vista hard drive out.
Thanks all who suggested various distros. It was nice of you to respond in here even though it's a "comments" area and not a support forum.
260 • Crazy typos in my post 259 (by Jerry on 2007-12-01 18:26:50 GMT from United States)
"The new Sabayon is now installed and running ..."
"What a relief.." :)
261 • #255 - HOW MANY LINUX DISTROS ARE THERE REALLY (by Anonymous on 2007-12-01 19:13:41 GMT from Switzerland)
You're asking how the are all related. This question is well answered at Wikipedia:
The diagram on the right near the top shows the relationships pretty neatly.
262 • ASPLinux 12 DVD corrupted download (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-12-02 04:04:21 GMT from Italy)
I downloaded it with wget, but the md5sums don't match.
Does anybody know about a torrent?
263 • #261 (by welkiner on 2007-12-02 04:14:42 GMT from United States)
For some reason the link that you gave, left the time off of the timeline.
Here's a link of the same thing (with dates) and it works better (.png)
264 • Ultumix v0.0.1.0 2008 Final Pre Release and Possibly the Final Release (by Justin Breithaupt at 2007-12-02 06:41:32 GMT from United States)
Welcome to Ultumix Linux OS. The OS designed for Windows users by previous Windows Users.
Go to www.mindblowingidea.com/Ultumix to get the latest copy via Torrent (recommended) or FTP. If you want to know more about Ultumix Linux Click the FTP link and open the .pdf in your browser or read the summery on the www.mindblowingidea.com/Ultumix web page. We also will have a video demo up on our site shortly. :) Ultumix v0.0.1.0 is very stable. I haven't had any problems with it yet. Please let me know about any issues you may have in the SF.net forum. Moderators are needed for the IRC chat. Ultumix Linux is a remaster of PCLinuxOS and the source code can all be found in the PCLinuxOS repositories and in the SF.net packman project.
265 • Re~: 264 Ultumix (by davecs on 2007-12-02 11:53:52 GMT from United Kingdom)
Presumably it uses the PCLinuxOS repositories as well.
The reason that there hasn't been an updated ISO from PCLinuxOS is the level of work required to get hardware working with new kernels, udev, and that scripts need reworking. This is probably why someone reported that certain wireless hardware didn't work in Fedora (last weeks distrowatch) but does in PCLOS. It's because Fedora is probably using the new kernel.
Anyone who has worked with Texstar knows that the new ISO won't come out until he is 100% happy with it.
That is what worries me about Ultumix. Under GPL of course Justin can publish an alternate iso. But then you have to consider why Texstar hasn't been able to publish an updated one yet.
266 • Re: 264 source code Ultumix Linux (by jack on 2007-12-02 14:57:08 GMT from Canada)
"...the source code can all be found in the PCLinuxOS repositories and in the SF.net packman project.""
Wasn't this one of the problems that Mepis had?
That one cannot use the source code that is available from the mother distro?
(otherwise everyone just refers to Debian!)
I am a newbie so probably (almost certainly) misunderstand
267 • RE 266 Origins of source code (by dbrion1 on 2007-12-02 15:21:05 GMT from France)
"(otherwise everyone just refers to Debian!)
I agree that Debian is a good source code source, but I had recently the occasion of browse the directories of 2 source based dists, t2 and an arm-oriented one (if I link to it, as there was here a war with a reviewer daring to work with a Mac -thoug x86 CPU-, it would be a terrible war !!!): I am not connectd to Internet (too many lawsuits to day, like MS big Sheitan last millenary...) and wget works iunder Cygwin and sometimes even MS natively in cybercafés....
Any way :
80/90 % of the sources come frome ... the original manufacturer... SourceForge or many others.
A great majority cof the rest comes from Debian, where they are carefully taken care of...
The rest comes, either from RH, else from Gentoo.
I know tha
268 • RE 266 Origins of source code (by dbrion1 on 2007-12-02 15:21:06 GMT from France)
"(otherwise everyone just refers to Debian!)
I agree that Debian is a good source code source, but I had recently the occasion of browse the directories of 2 source based dists, t2 and an arm-oriented one (if I link to it, as there was here a war with a reviewer daring to work with a Mac -thoug x86 CPU-, it would be a terrible war !!!): I am not connectd to Internet (too many lawsuits to day, like MS big Sheitan last millenary...) and wget works iunder Cygwin and sometimes even MS natively in cybercafés....
Any way :
80/90 % of the sources come frome ... the original manufacturer... SourceForge or many others.
A great majority cof the rest comes from Debian, where they are carefully taken care of...
The rest comes, either from RH, else from Gentoo.
I know tha
269 • Suite of 267 (268 is redundant) (by dbrion on 2007-12-02 15:23:54 GMT from France)
I know that it is based on only 2 source distrs, one of which is not even politically correct here (there is no salvation apart from Holy Intel, Sacred AMD...., of course, and even Macs are evil) but where does Debian's source come from...?
270 • 264 (by Anonymous on 2007-12-02 20:24:03 GMT from United States)
Post 266 is correct. You cannot simply point someone to another website to get the source. You have to be willing to provide it to them yourself. This can be done on a DVD with a charge to cover your costs, but you have to offer the source yourself if you distribute the code.
271 • RE:222 Long Term Support Upgrade (by Eddie Wilson on 2007-12-02 21:14:56 GMT from United States)
caterpillar, Well thats the plan anyway. I don't really know how any distro that is listed as Long Term Support can do it any other way. How well it works? We'll have to wait and see.
272 • Linux Mint 4.0 (by Anonymous on 2007-12-03 05:27:51 GMT from United States)
I tried Mint 3 after DWW provided a rosy review about its multimedia capabilities. It was a waste of bandwidth and media. After another rosy DWW review my hopes were raised again that multimedia would work out of the box. Tried to play movies from http://americafree.tv. No players (Mplayer or Totem) were able to play the default Quicktime 7 movies. Tried americafree.tv's vlc (.sdp mimetype) page. Again, a no go because vlc (videolan client) is not installed. [I installed vlc using synaptic. No problems, there. And, it was fast.] Unfortunately, nothing happens when using VLC media player to open a .sdp network stream. It turns out the installed version of vlc is a stripped down version and does not provide a RTP/RSTP option under Demuxer or advanced configuration controls/options to enable tunneling RTP and RSTP over HTTP. If the controls exist they are well hidden.
What multimedia did the reviewer actually try? How about testing additional "real world" content such as .mov, .rm, .mp3, and .rsp mimetypes in the next review?
273 • Distrowatch is misleading prospective Linux users (by Jim on 2007-12-03 09:32:04 GMT from United States)
So when is there going to be an end to the page hit ranking scam that distrowatch is pulling on its visitors?
Everyone that uses Linux of any flavor knows the stats are a joke and are clearly being gamed, so why continue providing visitors (new to Linux) with these false and misleading stats? How is it going to help the community to mislead new users about the popularity of certain distributions?
If you are going to continue with this crap, please put the page hit ranking stats on a page of its own, with a clear message to people viewing them that that they are absolutely worthless stats.
Number of Comments: 273
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|• Issue 840 (2019-11-11): Fedora 31, monitoring user activity, Fedora working to improve Python performance, FreeBSD gets faster networking|
|• Issue 839 (2019-11-04): MX 19, manipulating PDFs, Ubuntu plans features for 20.04, Fedora 29 nears EOL, Netrunner drops Manjaro-based edition|
|• Issue 838 (2019-10-28): Xubuntu 19.10, how init and service managers work together, DragonFly BSD provides emergency mode for HAMMER, Xfce team plans 4.16|
|• Issue 837 (2019-10-21): CentOS 8.0-1905, Trident finds a new base, Debian plans firewall changes, 15 years of Fedora, how to merge directories|
|• Issue 836 (2019-10-14): Archman 2019.09, Haiku improves ARM support, Project Trident shifting base OS, Unix turns 50|
|• Issue 835 (2019-10-07): Isotop, Mazon OS and, KduxOS, examples of using the find command, Mint's System Reports becomes proactive, Solus updates its desktops|
|• Issue 834 (2019-09-30): FreedomBox "Buster", CentOS gains a rolling release, Librem 5 phones shipping, Redcore updates its package manager|
|• Issue 833 (2019-09-23): Redcore Linux 1908, why Linux distros are free, Ubuntu making list of 32-bit software to keep, Richard M Stallman steps down from FSF leadership|
|• Issue 832 (2019-09-16): BlackWeb 1.2, checking for Wayland session and applications, Fedora to use nftables in firewalld, OpenBSD disables DoH in Firefox|
|• Issue 831 (2019-09-09): Adélie Linux 1.0 beta, using ffmpeg, awk and renice, Mint and elementary improvements, PureOS and Manjaro updates|
|• Issue 930 (2019-09-02): deepin 15.11, working with AppArmor profiles, elementary OS gets new greeter, exFAT support coming to Linux kernel|
|• Issue 829 (2019-08-26): EndeavourOS 2019.07.15, Drauger OS 7.4.1, finding the licenses of kernel modules, NetBSD gets Wayland application, GhostBSD changes base repo|
|• Issue 828 (2019-08-19): AcademiX 2.2, concerns with non-free firmware, UBports working on Unity8, Fedora unveils new EPEL channel, FreeBSD phasing out GCC|
|• Issue 827 (2019-08-12): Q4OS, finding files on the disk, Ubuntu works on ZFS, Haiku improves performance, OSDisc shutting down|
|• Issue 826 (2019-08-05): Quick looks at Resilient, PrimeOS, and BlueLight, flagship distros for desktops,Manjaro introduces new package manager|
|• Issue 825 (2019-07-29): Endless OS 3.6, UBports 16.04, gNewSense maintainer stepping down, Fedora developrs discuss optimizations, Project Trident launches stable branch|
|• Issue 824 (2019-07-22): Hexagon OS 1.0, Mageia publishes updated media, Fedora unveils Fedora CoreOS, managing disk usage with quotas|
|• Issue 823 (2019-07-15): Debian 10, finding 32-bit packages on a 64-bit system, Will Cooke discusses Ubuntu's desktop, IBM finalizes purchase of Red Hat|
|• Issue 822 (2019-07-08): Mageia 7, running development branches of distros, Mint team considers Snap, UBports to address Google account access|
|• Issue 821 (2019-07-01): OpenMandriva 4.0, Ubuntu's plan for 32-bit packages, Fedora Workstation improvements, DragonFly BSD's smaller kernel memory|
|• Issue 820 (2019-06-24): Clear Linux and Guix System 1.0.1, running Android applications using Anbox, Zorin partners with Star Labs, Red Hat explains networking bug, Ubuntu considers no longer updating 32-bit packages|
|• Issue 819 (2019-06-17): OS108 and Venom, renaming multiple files, checking live USB integrity, working with Fedora's Modularity, Ubuntu replacing Chromium package with snap|
|• Issue 818 (2019-06-10): openSUSE 15.1, improving boot times, FreeBSD's status report, DragonFly BSD reduces install media size|
|• Issue 817 (2019-06-03): Manjaro 18.0.4, Ubuntu Security Podcast, new Linux laptops from Dell and System76, Entroware Apollo|
|• Issue 816 (2019-05-27): Red Hat Enterprise Linux 8.0, creating firewall rules, Antergos shuts down, Matthew Miller answers questions about Fedora|
|• Issue 815 (2019-05-20): Sabayon 19.03, Clear Linux's developer features, Red Hat explains MDS flaws, an overview of mobile distro options|
|• Issue 814 (2019-05-13): Fedora 30, distributions publish Firefox fixes, CentOS publishes roadmap to 8.0, Debian plans to use Wayland by default|
|• Issue 813 (2019-05-06): ROSA R11, MX seeks help with systemd-shim, FreeBSD tests unified package management, interview with Gael Duval|
|• Issue 812 (2019-04-29): Ubuntu MATE 19.04, setting up a SOCKS web proxy, Scientific Linux discontinued, Red Hat takes over Java LTS support|
|• Issue 811 (2019-04-22): Alpine 3.9.2, rsync examples, Ubuntu working on ZFS support, Debian elects new Project Leader, Obarun releases S6 tools|
|• Issue 810 (2019-04-15): SolydXK 201902, Bedrock Linux 0.7.2, Fedora phasing out Python 2, NetBSD gets virtual machine monitor|
|• Issue 809 (2019-04-08): PCLinuxOS 2019.02, installing Falkon and problems with portable packages, Mint offers daily build previews, Ubuntu speeds up Snap packages|
|• Issue 808 (2019-04-01): Solus 4.0, security benefits and drawbacks to using a live distro, Gentoo gets GNOME ports working without systemd, Redox OS update|
|• Issue 807 (2019-03-25): Pardus 17.5, finding out which user changed a file, new Budgie features, a tool for browsing FreeBSD's sysctl values|
|• Issue 806 (2019-03-18): Kubuntu vs KDE neon, Nitrux's znx, notes on Debian's election, SUSE becomes an independent entity|
|• Issue 805 (2019-03-11): EasyOS 1.0, managing background services, Devuan team debates machine ID file, Ubuntu Studio works to remain an Ubuntu Community Edition|
|• Issue 804 (2019-03-04): Condres OS 19.02, securely erasing hard drives, new UBports devices coming in 2019, Devuan to host first conference|
|• Issue 803 (2019-02-25): Septor 2019, preventing windows from stealing focus, NetBSD and Nitrux experiment with virtual machines, pfSense upgrading to FreeBSD 12 base|
|• Issue 802 (2019-02-18): Slontoo 18.07.1, NetBSD tests newer compiler, Fedora packaging Deepin desktop, changes in Ubuntu Studio|
|• Issue 801 (2019-02-11): Project Trident 18.12, the meaning of status symbols in top, FreeBSD Foundation lists ongoing projects, Plasma Mobile team answers questions|
|• Issue 800 (2019-02-04): FreeNAS 11.2, using Ubuntu Studio software as an add-on, Nitrux developing znx, matching operating systems to file systems|
|• Issue 799 (2019-01-28): KaOS 2018.12, Linux Basics For Hackers, Debian 10 enters freeze, Ubuntu publishes new version for IoT devices|
|• Issue 798 (2019-01-21): Sculpt OS 18.09, picking a location for swap space, Solus team plans ahead, Fedora trying to get a better user count|
|• Issue 797 (2019-01-14): Reborn OS 2018.11.28, TinyPaw-Linux 1.3, dealing with processes which make the desktop unresponsive, Debian testing Secure Boot support|
|• Issue 796 (2019-01-07): FreeBSD 12.0, Peppermint releases ISO update, picking the best distro of 2018, roundtable interview with Debian, Fedora and elementary developers|
|• Issue 795 (2018-12-24): Running a Pinebook, interview with Bedrock founder, Alpine being ported to RISC-V, Librem 5 dev-kits shipped|
|• Issue 794 (2018-12-17): Void 20181111, avoiding software bloat, improvements to HAMMER2, getting application overview in GNOME Shell|
|• Issue 793 (2018-12-10): openSUSE Tumbleweed, finding non-free packages, Debian migrates to usrmerge, Hyperbola gets FSF approval|
|• Issue 792 (2018-1203): GhostBSD 18.10, when to use swap space, DragonFly BSD's wireless support, Fedora planning to pause development schedule|
|• Issue 791 (2018-11-26): Haiku R1 Beta1, default passwords on live media, Slax and Kodachi update their media, dual booting DragonFly BSD on EFI|
|• Issue 790 (2018-11-19): NetBSD 8.0, Bash tips and short-cuts, Fedora's networking benchmarked with FreeBSD, Ubuntu 18.04 to get ten years of support|
|• Issue 789 (2018-11-12): Fedora 29 Workstation and Silverblue, Haiku recovering from server outage, Fedora turns 15, Debian publishes updated media|
|• Issue 788 (2018-11-05): Clu Linux Live 6.0, examining RAM consumpion, finding support for older CPUs, more Steam support for running Windows games on Linux, update from Solus team|
|• Full list of all issues|
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Funtoo Linux is a Gentoo-based distribution developed by Daniel Robbins (the founder and former project leader of Gentoo Linux) and a core team of developers, built around a basic vision of improving the core technologies in Gentoo Linux. Funtoo Linux features native UTF-8 support enabled by default, a git-based, distributed Portage tree and Funtoo overlay, an enhanced Portage with more compact mini-manifest tree, automated imports of new Gentoo changes every 12 hours, GPT/GUID boot support and streamlined boot configuration, enhanced network configuration, up-to-date stable and current Funtoo stages - all built using Funtoo's Metro build tool.