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1 • No subject (by Hafiz Shafruddin on 2007-08-13 09:38:10 GMT from India)
It's nice to see my country, Malaysia is ranked 8th since we are not so into linux yet.
2 • No subject (by Joaquim Gil on 2007-08-13 10:22:24 GMT from Portugal)
SmoothWall Express 3.0 RC1 - Sounds good they are finishing - at last - a new release. Looking forward to compare the final release with IPCop!
3 • openSUSE 10.3 Live CDs (by Anonymous on 2007-08-13 10:23:19 GMT from Germany)
> lacking the ability to be installed on a hard disk
That's wrong, the live installer is contained on the CD but just (not yet) advertized prominently - look within YaST Control Center. I tried with the KDE CD and it installed successfully.
4 • openSUSE 10.3 Beta 1 Boot Time Improvements (by apokryphos on 2007-08-13 10:24:55 GMT from United Kingdom)
Take a look at Sneak Peeks at openSUSE 10.3: Greatly Improved Boot Time for some additional information and bootcharts.
5 • openSUSE 10.3 Beta 1 Boot Time Improvements (by apokryphos on 2007-08-13 10:25:35 GMT from United Kingdom)
Woops, the link didn't go through, it's: http://news.opensuse.org/?p=104
6 • Worrying Trend (by Original on 2007-08-13 10:25:39 GMT from India)
Ladislav, coincidently that thought struck me yesterday about the worrying Linux non-development trend.
I am a novice linux user. Installed Fedora, OpenSUSE, Ubuntu coz of their easy-to-use installers.
Which brings me to thought that still Microsoft Windows will be around for a long time and I think since Bill Gates had this fore-vision, he could command the world.
But if there's will power, there still will be Linux distros almost everywhere. Now is the highest time when all the major distros shud collaborate and compete.
I think I am not the only one to think that no one will keep testing every new development release of any Linux distro forever.
Also, can this also be a high time for advocating around the world to stop making new distros and just concentrate on present set of 200 distros???
Sure innovation matters, but so do a large number of community members. Every Linux distro is after all free as in free speech.....
7 • SCO vs. Novell? (by Andrew Hutchings on 2007-08-13 10:37:14 GMT from United Kingdom)
All this OpenSUSE coverage but nothing of the collapse of SCO's court cases in today's weekly. How odd!
8 • RE: 7 SCO vs. Novell? (by ladislav on 2007-08-13 10:43:19 GMT from Taiwan)
It isn't odd. What does a silly claim by SCO have to do with DistroWatch? If you are really interested in these kind of stories, there are specialist web site that deal with them:
http://www.groklaw.net/
http://lwn.net/
As for me, I've had a filter on anything related to SCO in my RSS feed reader for several years ;-)
9 • Worrying trend (by Chris on 2007-08-13 10:46:04 GMT from Canada)
I've just jumped on board the linux train about a month ago. It just maybe that, as the previous person mentioned, there are too many distros out there! Too many to choose from! If we concentrate on just a few of them, much more can be accomplished. However the favorites and most popular will always sit in the top 20 while the others will just fall by the wayside.
I'm partial to Knoppix and considering Fedora but in the future, if I have the time, I will be fitting in some test time.
10 • Has the number of active distributions already peaked? (by areuareu on 2007-08-13 10:49:25 GMT from France)
during the first seven months of this year, 256 distributions, old and new, have issued a
release. 768 distributions have issued a release within the last 36 months and can still be
considered active. This very high level of activity may mask the fact that the actual number
of active distributions is slightly shrinking.
Let me explain: some distributions issue releases very often (several rc or test releases a
month), some on a semester basis, some on a yearly basis, an some "when ready", but, on a
statistical point of view, the percentage of distributions issuing releases after 24 months
of inactivity is close to zero.
The percentage of distributions issuing a release after 12 months of inactivity, I mean
complete inactivity, no security update, no test, no rc, is very low, probably well below
20%.
What does that mean? It means that the 31 'active' distributions with a last date of release
in the second semester of 2004 and most of the 221 distributions last issued in 2005 won't
probably survive. To replace these distributions, we would need close to 7 new distributions
a month til december, an close to 12 a month from january to december 2008. We shall
probably be far from these numbers, especially in 2008, unless some new concept triggers a
wave of creations comparable to the the Knoppix wave.
In wich area could we need new distributions? mostly in the localisation area. Only one
third of the U.N. members currently issues localised distributions. There are no live CDs in
a very high number of languages, especially in Africa and Asia. On that front, the activity
is very disappointing.
This consolidation might be seen as a good thing, by those who think that the overall number
of distributions is far too high. It may be seen as a bad thing as it may denote a loss of
impetus from the community. It certainly is a reality check: the creators of these
disappearing distributions may or may not have programmed that early death. In both cases,
they did not find the necessary "customer base" for the projet to survive.
11 • Testing, 123, Testing (by Landor on 2007-08-13 11:03:21 GMT from Canada)
I'm always poking around with distributions. Some for days, some for a few short minutes. I'm always interested in taking the development releases out for a drive too.
As I said last week, I was totally impressed with the recent release of OpenSUSE. My son is actually still test driving it and just loved the install interface. I was just as impressed.
I'll always have a special place for an RH or SUSE product, but with so many releases and alpha's and beta's to try out, who can resist tastin' a new flavour to see what all the hub-bub is about.
On another note:
Ladislav did you find the Nepal and Iraq increases shocking? What a majory increase. There is some very large growth and interest in Linux as an alternative in Asia for sure.
Last week, I forget the exact wording of the comment, someone said that if someone wants something to work they pay the money, they get it, in relation to a Commercial OS I do believe and how people would rather pay money for a Commercial OS that everything on their systems works instantly for than Open Source softare that is for free but they might have to tweak and such to get to work on their computer. Your recent stats have shown that in other countries this is not the case and maybe more people in some of the larger first world countries should adopt a similar lifestyle. Meaning paying for the shortest route from a - b is not always the most advantageous, money doesn't grow on trees, it's made from human sweat :)
Thank you for the look at the stats.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
12 • Thanks for the statistic and year comparison. (by Chyryll Zariss on 2007-08-13 11:07:34 GMT from Malaysia)
Glad to see my country ranked at 7th. Agreed with Hafiz, users of Linux are very low here. But we'll try our best to promote to ppl.
13 • India ranked third.. (by Sathya on 2007-08-13 11:12:22 GMT from India)
Good to see my country ranked third there, Free software interest has grown bigtime here with the work of the GLUGs. I'm giving away atleast one gnu/linux cd/dvd per day, the enthusiasm from my friends at college is just amazing.
It seems people feel cool that they are using linux !! ;^)
14 • testing distros (by Joe P on 2007-08-13 11:25:57 GMT from United States)
Aside from the lack of time to test the overwhelming number of new test releases, there are many people trying Linux because of the availability of live CDs. Many of us don't know what to report if the live CD doesn't boot on our hardware but most do. Perhaps there is a shortage of people with enough technical knowledge to properly evaluate test releases.
15 • development releases (by Caraibes on 2007-08-13 11:35:50 GMT from Dominican Republic)
About testing the development releases, I am guilty as charged, as I must be honest here : I only use final products. This is because I use my PC for working, so I can't really afford to risk anything. About 3 years of using Linux full time, and I stabilized myself to use Fedora on my main box, upgrading only once every 6 months to the new stable version. On my other PC's I use Debian Stable. On my older laptop, only *buntu Dapper worked with my obsolete wifi card, so I kept it with Fluxbox... On my iBook (old Mac laptop), I dual-boot Feisty & OSX, but I haven't yet found the right setup...
So I am not a good example for the community. I am one of those who enjoys stability and "entreprise-like" releases... Not completely obsolete like a RHEL clone, but almost...
16 • Re: Development (by DistRogue on 2007-08-13 12:29:55 GMT from Spain)
The releases I'm looking forward to the most are KDE 4 and Linux 2.6.23. I tried out the second RC of the kernel, and the CFS really made a difference. KDE 4 should be a welcome improvement as far as speed as well, with Qt 4- assuming you resist the temptation to try out all the new stuff like Plasma Widgets...
Biggest surprise for KDE 4: None of the new stuff starts with a K! 0.o
17 • I do test but not many (by davemc on 2007-08-13 12:48:34 GMT from United States)
I am a beta tester for Sabayon. That keeps my free time locked up, for the most part. If you have ever used Sabayon, you'll know what im talking about. Basicly, that is one featurefull packed distro, and so there is loads of stuff to test on it from livedvd to install to post install basic and advanced application functionality. Both GNOME and KDE fully tailored Sabayon style. It really is alot to do, although its lots of fun too and my goodness have I learned about Linux doing that!
18 • wore out tester (by A.C. on 2007-08-13 12:59:53 GMT from United States)
one, two, three...seven spindles (100 ea) of live-cds, alphas, betas, rc-s, and finals three years of distro-hopping. i am tired of testing.
just run debian sid like me and you get the constant state of beta testing without downloading any more iso-s. also, you do not have to constantly customize and search for the software you use on a daily basis which is not included in the package list of your latest install.
yes, i have bugzilla accounts; and yes i have reported bugs.
i still track some live-cds and the major distros...but no more "alpha release 7"s as a rule. the latest suse is an exception, and it looks like 10.3 is going to be a quality release ***if*** they can iron out the last of their package management bugs.
i keep the latest 'gold' releases on hand, for sharing with noobs, etc., because ubuntu is not necessarily the best fit for each and every situation.
19 • Development Releases (by Bob Ewart on 2007-08-13 13:02:35 GMT from United States)
I love large hard files. This system has openSUSE 10.1, 10.2, 10.3 beta 1, Kubuntu and Windows. I've been using linux for some time starting with Caldera and switching to SuSE when Caldera went down. I usually download the openSUSE betas, but this time I did download most of the alphas. I'm running on beta 1 now and it's been solid so far. I have occasionally used bugzilla, at least to add comments to existing bugs.
Thanks for DistroWatch Weekly, It really makes my Monday mornings.
20 • Testing (by Sokraates on 2007-08-13 13:05:53 GMT from Austria)
I use Ubuntu at home and also test the development releases. Before, I had a separate partition on my desktop where I updated the development version almost daily and triaged it. Now I almost exclusively work on a laptop with a much smaller disk, so there's no room for a permanent testing partition (my personal files take up lots of space). Also I no longer have the time to truly test the development version daily.
But I still download the milestones once they are released and test them on weekends. It's rather comfortable, using the live-CDs, though it's just not the same intensity compared to installing a development version, working with it for a prolonged period of time and actually fixing some of the bugs one encounters.
21 • Maybe a few get disheartened when their torrent downloads... (by ChiJoan on 2007-08-13 13:07:12 GMT from United States)
...fail to burn after waiting for days to test. Or they burn and won't boot up. I've tended to wait on LinuxFormat for their great DVDs and Mag, or some of the knock-off Linux mags with DVDs. Don't forget the cost of CDs are up, too. Not only that, I noticed the Linux and other computer books are shrinking at my local Barnes and Noble bookstore.
Also I hope the quality goes up with Ubuntu...with Mandriva, Xandros and maybe others if you change video cards the Xserver doesn't crash, it autodetects, or offers you a choice to re-check like Linspire. People make small changes or add hardware and the distro should be able to adapt. It's a shame, as I really like the brown, and will keep trying.
Thanks for keeping an eye on Linux,
ChiJoan
22 • testing (by CeVO on 2007-08-13 13:08:08 GMT from Spain)
I am a Linux user, meaning I use it for daily work. Every now and then I pick up a stable release of a distro I haven't seen before and give it a spin. Being a MEPIS user, I do get all MEPIS alpha and beta releases. I also got the MEPIS KDE4 preview, which, although quite unstable at this stage, surprised me for its speed and clean looks.
Distro testing is a hobby. As much as I enjoy using Linux, I have no time for hopping around and giving every new release of every distro a spin. A day only has 24 hours....
23 • re 8, 9 (by Simon on 2007-08-13 13:13:32 GMT from United Kingdom)
Firstly, I think Ladislav's point was about problems with less people testing alpha/beta releases nowadays, rather than the number of distros.
But anyway, I don't see the number of distros as a problem. There are only a few big ones that most newbies will get pointed towards so it is not so confusing. And some of those big distros, such as the ubuntus were new not so long ago. New distros can bring new ideas and new users as the ubuntu family have (personally, I'm not as ubuntu user, but I can see what they have brought to the distro world). Frankly, if people didin't want all these distros then the unwanted distros would die (and they do) so it's a simple case of survival of the fittest. The use of free software licenses makes it relatively easy for advances in one distro to quickly be shared.
Having said that, I would like to see more cooperation in some areas, such as apackage management. The use of different package managers in rpm based distros seems daft, it would be good to see suse, red hat and mandrake cooperate more on this - there is joint work now going in to rpm but I mean really at the higher level such as yast/libzypp/yum/pirut etc. Distros that use debs generally have apt available and as a result their package management rocks.
24 • No subject (by anon on 2007-08-13 13:20:18 GMT from United States)
"the first test build of Fedora 7 and the fourth alpha of Ubuntu 7.10"
Of course you get the ubuntu version right, yet you mess up the Fedora version. It's 8 not 7.
25 • openSuSe 10.3 beta1 (by asasega on 2007-08-13 13:27:09 GMT from Romania)
please put back the smmpd package in the 1CD media, in alpha7 it was present in beta1 not anymore(some ppl have dsl connections, and it's not a big package)
i try a lot of alpha's and beta's but i'm not brave enough to post my bug findings:(
26 • RE: 4 • openSUSE 10.3 Beta 1 Boot (by DeniZen on 2007-08-13 13:28:30 GMT from United Kingdom)
My colleague has the KDE 1 CD version of 10.3 Beta1 installed, so I had a quick poke about with it yesterday.
Looks very polished and complete, and more importantly it looks like OpenSUSE have been listening to people.
Boot time on his aging Athlon XP 2600 /512 is 35 seconds. Mmm? Yep .. that is Suse booting there like it was ..dunno .. err ..Zenwalk or somethin' .. !
KDE desktop loading is exrtremely quick after KDM login too.
Interface looks very smooth and the ugly fonts are most definitely gone. (yeah yeah Den, whats with that fonts talk again .. ;) )
System seems genuinely snappy.
All this on the "relatively 'old' " box its being tested on.
Very early days, but it looks like the Green Lizard might be back, with a contender
I might try it on my Laptop when the release gets nearer.
27 • opensuse beta (by Anonymous on 2007-08-13 13:33:18 GMT from United States)
I can't believe it, the previous release of opensuse was such a slow boot, and the new beta boots faster than Arch! Faster than gentoo! It's just lightning fast. I don't like how they remove convenient tools from kde, like mouse acceleration. And the menus within menus that you keep clicking through is annoying. All of the kde innovations are bad and not good imo, I prefer straight up kde with all of the configuration options they give you.
28 • Have to agree with Poster #22. (by Askrates on 2007-08-13 13:35:21 GMT from Japan)
I am also a fan of ubuntu, but the status of their Xserver is pretty horrible. The current version (Feisty) shipped with a bug making it unable to start X on *any* newer ATI laptop card, and this bug still exists in Gutsy many months later. Mandrake, Pclinuxos, Fedora, Suse all seem to have more stable Xservers than Ubuntu.
It is a pity really...
29 • testing (by voislav on 2007-08-13 13:44:58 GMT from Canada)
The problem as I see it is that the userbase for Linux has grown a lot. Unfortunatelly, the number of tecnically skilled users hasn't increased that much (those guys already used Linux to begin with) and those are the people most likely to do testing. So you end up spreading your testing pool over increased number of distros.
Also, as is case with me and probably quite a few other people, the jobs and family means that there is less time for play. The last betas I tested were the ones for MEPIS 6.5, but I am planning to give Mandriva 08 a shot.
It's a very good point though, because without testing there is not much point in developing the distro. I think that the solution is the Linux Standard Base (LSB) which would reduce the amount of testing neccesary, because it many of the critical problems would become cross-distro, especially hardware.
30 • ubuntu doesn't have lvm on installer... (by superbnerb on 2007-08-13 13:50:36 GMT from Canada)
Hi all,
I'm distro hopping again. Again i think the grass is always greener, only to find out it's more brown and burnt than the one i'm trying to escape from.
I'm moving from a conary based distro - called foresight, to another distro. I hadn't ever given ubuntu the time of day, because it's too big and based on debian, however I thought i'd see what the world loved about the people's distro. Plopped the DVD in, only to realize that the installer doesn't have LVM! built in. I've seen a howto on how to fix it, but what a pain in the backside. Now, why did the people's distro NOT include something that even the most obscure and junkiest of distros have and take for granted?
I should never ever have even thought of moving from a conary based system. IF Foresight didn't do everything that i needed it to, i should have created my own.
I also forgot how annoying it is to upload all the good stuff into fedora, also. why doesn't livna just come out with a release and blow fedora away, similar to how the people's distro did to debian.
31 • SCO Loses (by My Linux Page on 2007-08-13 14:02:50 GMT from United States)
Court Rules: Novell owns UNIX. Judge Dale Kimball has issued a ruling on SCO v. Novell. The court concludes that Novell is the owner of the UNIX and UnixWare Copyrights. Nice try SCO but with all the FUDD you spread all I can say is: rest in peace.
32 • No subject (by Draca on 2007-08-13 14:05:51 GMT from United States)
I find the whole "too many distributions" argument strange. I agree that superficially it seems as if there are too many, but the reality is that a great percentage of the distributions are either localizations or specializations. For instance, who else but a Japanese person would want to use Berry Linux? Why would the vast majority of Linux users, including newcomers, be interested in IPCop or some other specialty distribution?
When you eliminate the localized and specialized distributions, there are not that many distributions left for English-speaking, desktop users. On the other hand, for people who speak a particular non-English language living in a non-anglophone culture, how few are the distributions available for them! For some people, a language pack in a major distribution (say, Fedora, openSUSE, or Ubuntu) is not sufficient for their needs.
In other words, the qualitative response to the number of distributions really depends on a person's perspective.
33 • DragonFly Bsd (by Fred&Jeri on 2007-08-13 14:05:54 GMT from United States)
Does Dragonfly Bsd still boot to a command prompt, or have they
finally put in a gui like KDE or something.?
34 • 27 • opensuse beta (by Anonymous on 2007-08-13 14:12:34 GMT from Australia)
>I can't believe it, the previous release of opensuse was such a slow boot, and the new beta boots faster than Arch! <
Well, It is much faster than XP and if you don't boot too often, it should not be such a big deal. IMO, 10.2 is a very good edition and has about 16 mths of official update support left.
>Faster than gentoo! It's just lightning fast.<
How fast is it after you boot?
I downloaded an Live CD Alpha 7 to try out but I could not get it to setup my screen resolution (1200 x 80 @60 hz notebook with 915GM Intel chipset). All I got was massive fonts and sax2 in console mode was doing the same. So I will wait until RC editions before I try again.
>And the menus within menus that you keep clicking through is annoying. All of the kde innovations are bad and not good imo, I prefer straight up kde with all of the configuration options they give you.<
I don't know if it has changed in 10.3, but in 10.2 you can EASILY REVERT to classic KDE menu by right-clicking on the start menu button (the lizard) and selecting it as your preferred option menu style. On the other hand, many like the new menu style. Like you, I don't like the new menu style much and was also at first stumped at how to back to classic mode. Try this tip and see if it works.
Cheers
35 • 30 (by Anonymous on 2007-08-13 14:14:39 GMT from United States)
>> I hadn't ever given ubuntu the time of day, because it's too big and based on debian
Too big??? Based on Debian???
???
>> I also forgot how annoying it is to upload all the good stuff into fedora
Then I guess you should be using a proprietary distro like Freespire, shouldn't you? If you find free software to be inferior, you should not use a free software distro like Fedora.
I read comments about how there are too many distros, then comments about how the existing ones don't do what they want!
36 • Re 34---I ate one zero above (by Anonymous on 2007-08-13 14:14:47 GMT from Australia)
It should read ....1200 x 800 @60hz
37 • Testing, Testing, Testing (by ClearlyAbstrkt on 2007-08-13 14:16:02 GMT from United States)
I'm currently testing Ubuntu Gutsy, as Ubuntu is my distro of choice. I also like to see what's happening with Fedora, but I don't test for them. Not enough time, and I'd rather focus on doing one thing right. I usually throw an install of the latest development release of Gutsy on my VMware and run it through hell, and then burn the LiveCD and try it on my various computers.
I think that users who are technically inclined enough and have some spare time should be encouraged to help test their new distro. It's for everyone's benefit.
38 • Testing (by parkash on 2007-08-13 14:19:21 GMT from Germany)
Hmm... I guess I also tested beta versions a lot more in the past than I do now... Partly because of the time which I need for that... Nevertheless, I'll certainly try to test more again :D
Thanks for bringing that up Ladislav.
Cheers :D
39 • Re 23..Try SMART Package Manager (by SMART Fan on 2007-08-13 14:32:35 GMT from Australia)
Works great in openSuse and Fedora for me. It can support deb, rpm, urpmi and is designed to work across all the major distros and their various repos and packages. Be SMART and give it a go!
Cheers
40 • testing-success (by mark on 2007-08-13 14:42:17 GMT from United States)
I think that the success of linux (just working) is most of your
answer. For me thats important and why I dont dip my toe
as much. But I do have two spindles (only 50s) of distros
many are dvd (think green). I have gutsy-a4 on an old 9gig hd.
But spending most of my time with fawn or centos5. For myself
its about the apps, as I used to switch so I could try something.
These days seems like the only thing new is kde or gnome.
just my 2 cents.
41 • Testing, 1, 2, 3 (by Anonymous on 2007-08-13 14:43:49 GMT from United States)
I'd love to do beta testing, but it seems the developers don't like it when you find a bug. Check out the forums on some of the distro sites and you'll see many a tester flamed or told to RTFM.
42 • Testing, testing, 1 2 3 (by Jesse on 2007-08-13 14:51:10 GMT from Canada)
I only use the stable releases of Linux distros. I use my computer for work and I don't want to spend a lot of time debugging and trouble shooting my own computer. I mostly use Fedora and their stable releases are cutting edge enough for me.
I do have a bugzilla account with Red Hat (and a few other places)
and I report bugs as I find them.
43 • re 35 (by superbnerb on 2007-08-13 14:53:29 GMT from Canada)
How many hits a day does ubuntu get? according to distrowatch it's over 2600. It's number one with a bullet on their list. According to free wordtracker searches are over 3500.... so if linux itself is getting 6800 searches, then over half is for ubutntu.
That consitutes a big percentage, hence about my comment that it is a big distro. big as in popular. the people's distro.
<>
When did i say it was inferior? I said that if i wanted to listen to an online album or last.fm channel, i have to get a mp3 plug-in. that to me is annoying. I didn't ask for mp3 to be the most popular choice for music compression, but here we are. Until we all realize ogg is the way to go, and we start buying ogg (instead of stealing from the artists) then we have to use mp3's and convert them to ogg's.
Same goes for the flash plug-in. super annoying to have to download it and have it not be part of the distro's base.
nvidia drivers... need i go on. please save the gpl speech for someone who cares, because right now, i can't get 3D effects from a computer that I paid over 1200 on an OS i chose, natively... no gpl will heal these wounds. Nvidia has a linux version of the driver... isn't that enough to add it to the distro's base? why must it be gpl in order to be on? IF it's illegal to have on my system, why would the "pusher" nvidia be able to sell it to me?
To quote marilyn manson, i don't like the drugs, but the drugs they like me. Sometimes you need properietary software to make the open source stuff work.
44 • Why do we use Linux as home users? (by Sandman on 2007-08-13 15:03:31 GMT from Pakistan)
Please spend few minutes & answer the few questions regarding the above question on my blog page
http://saleem-khan.blogspot.com
Thanks,
Sandman
45 • re 30 (by Anonymous on 2007-08-13 15:23:30 GMT from Canada)
It doesn't have RAID either. The alternate install CD supports both, as it just uses the Debian installer.
I think the live devs dropped RAID and LVM as it introduced bugs into their new installer, and they had to get it out the door quickly. IIRC, it should have been re-introduced by now.
46 • Testing ? (by dbrion on 2007-08-13 15:32:26 GMT from France)
" did you download and install any of the above-mentioned development releases during the past week? "
I downloaded without any traffic-jam Mandiva'2008.0 beta-1?
"If so, did you do it merely out of curiosity or did you put it through rigorous testing in order to file bug reports?"
Neither :
*curiosity for a > 3G download would have been utterly silly,
* and I am a very poor tester for big distributions (for very small ones, and for my fav. applications, it is another problem: pple are happy when I report (with proofs) bugs, even unformally)
That was for (successfully) installing (+automatically testing vs known solutions) my fav. applications, and a cross compilation chain (which can be very messy : damaging a finite binary distr would have been a crime....).
" Have you ever opened a Bugzilla account at your favourite project? If not, why not? Is this a case of "too many releases, too little time"? Please discuss below"
For Mandriva 2008.0, I was very pleasantly surprised : Mandriva 2007.0's beta could not even start and Mandriva is said to be dead (since years, in DW forum...); for a zombie distr, I did not notice any flaw.....(except for 2 very minor broken packages, every one can notice).
=> Why should I NObug report? in a formal way.....
47 • Re: 1, 12 (by kirios on 2007-08-13 15:38:17 GMT from Malaysia)
Chyryll Zariss from Malaysia wrote:
"Glad to see my country ranked at 7th. Agreed with Hafiz, users of Linux are very low here. But we'll try our best to promote to ppl."
Most PC users start with Windows because it happens to be pre-installed on their first PC. The cost of proprietary software doesn't influence their choice of OS as pirated software accounts for around 60% of software in use and programs like Microsoft Office or Adobe Photoshop can be obtained for the equivalent of 3 or 4 US dollars each. The fact that Linux is open source is unlikely to convince more than a handful of these users to switch.
48 • @43 (by Adam Williamson on 2007-08-13 15:48:51 GMT from Canada)
"How many hits a day does ubuntu get? according to distrowatch it's over 2600. It's number one with a bullet on their list. According to free wordtracker searches are over 3500.... so if linux itself is getting 6800 searches, then over half is for ubutntu."
Wow. You failed statistics hard, didn't you? :)
49 • RE: 8 SCO vs. Novell? (by Andrew Hutchings on 2007-08-13 15:49:26 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi Ladislav,
I simply meant remembering back all those years I think Distrowatch covered the start of it all, it would be cool to cover the end of it all as well.
But as you say, most technical publications have covered it anyway :)
50 • Testing and Number of Distros (by Sultan Khan on 2007-08-13 16:05:03 GMT from Canada)
1. I agree with Ladislav on the issue of a shrinking number of testers. In 2002-2003, I only used beta/alpha versions of semi-popular distros and did report a couple bugs when I felt like. In 2004-2005, I used alpha and beta versions of progeny debian and reported occasional bugs. But by 2006, I got tired of buggy systems and used M$ WINDOW$. I then got a virus and made an iBook I got in '05 my main computer and put a variety of stable releases of popular distros. I watched the stable releases gut buggier and buggier. For a while, Ubuntu provided hope but even that's become buggy now. Now i just use Macs (I got an intel imac too for the performance) and leave my ubuntu pc to collecting dust.
2. The number of distros must go down!!! For a while they helped but now there are too many!!! over 600 distros is waaaaaay to much. I think DW should remove all distros not in the top 100. Any new distros can be included for 6 months and if they don't make it to the top 100, they should be removed. The passionate devs who have time to make their own distros would be much more useful fixing up the popular distros.
Those are my 2 cents.
51 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-08-13 16:42:17 GMT from United States)
>> please save the gpl speech for someone who cares, because right now, i can't get 3D effects from a computer that I paid over 1200 on an OS i chose, natively... no gpl will heal these wounds.
Some people just don't get it, do they?
There are distros out there that come with that stuff...but not Fedora. The Fedora project believes free software is good enough. It's not hard to add proprietary software, but it's not there by default. If you don't like Fedora's approach, use something else. You're the one giving speeches, not me. You don't think GPL is important, so you should be using Mepis or Freespire or Linspire or some similar distribution.
The proprietary religious nuts constantly spread their nonsense here. Some of us like GPL software. Leave us alone. Why does every distro have to be done the way YOU like it? Why should every distro treat the GPL as unimportant?
>> When did i say it was inferior?
When you said it doesn't come with all the proprietary software you personally want to use.
52 • Re 51 and 48. (by superbnerb on 2007-08-13 16:53:37 GMT from Canada)
Yeah i screwed up, 48. I know you never have, but thanks for being productive and adding something relevant to the proceedings.
As for 51, first, why be anonymous? but your name out there like a man. Second, Why does every distro have to be done the way YOU want it?
Come on man, are you serious? You choose gpl'd free software only distros... that's the way YOU want it? so guys like me aren't allowed to pick what we want because gpl doesn't meet our needs? give me a break.
I choose to use my computer to the best of it's ability. That, for now, means proprietary nvidia drivers, Flash plugins and mp3's (until i can get them into ogg).
If there was a open source gpl'd version of a nvidia driver that could handle compiz and/or beryl consistently on my computer, i would use it. But there isn't.
I'm fiddled around with too many ndiswrapper sessions and swearing sessions 'for the good of the license' to not know what i like, and that is for my laptop to work out of the box.
Foresight 2.0 is coming out soon, hopefully my little tiny beefs will be gone by the time it rolls out.
53 • testing distros (by DG on 2007-08-13 17:11:36 GMT from Netherlands)
I'm currently installing Lunar Linux 1.6.2-beta1 and will provide feedback as
appropriate. As a non-power user this is one way that I can contribute back
to the community. If everyone who tried a distro provided just one piece of
constructive criticism then the whole Linux community would benefit.
[I also act as spam-killer on their wiki pages. Even non-geeks can help!]
54 • U bet your ass (by Eric on 2007-08-13 17:26:32 GMT from Canada)
HAHA, you bet your ass I've been testing!!!:P I've been downloading and testing development sidux releases like hell and have done a current journaling filesystem benchmark for jfs, ext3, reiser3 and xfs, wigh XFS of COURSE being the clear winner:P
Here are the results of my testing of sidux Gaia Pre2 on a fully dist-upgraded 2.6.22.2 kernel system:)
http://sidux.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-5275.html
55 • Number of Distros (by Anonymous on 2007-08-13 17:27:04 GMT from United States)
Why do people think there are too many distros? How many is too many? Are there too many automobile manufacturers and/or models? Too many brands of washing machines? Too many TV channels? I think it's crazy to say there are too many distros. That's like saying there are too many letters in the alphabet.
56 • #55 - number of distros (by ray carter at 2007-08-13 17:34:11 GMT from United States)
Too many auto makers and models? Yes. If you've noticed, several have disappeared in the past few years - Oldsmobile and Plymouth come to mind. Like the Linux world there are too many that are simply the same model marketed with several names - could be much more efficient if there was some consolidation. Too many brands of washing machines? Well, there aren't all that many - only three or four of which I'm aware. But again, the cross branding is costly. Too many TV channels? Absolutely. We get by quite well with six, and that is overkill - no one can reasonably keep track of 100 channels. Too many letters in the alphabet? Yes - several of the lesser used ones we could easily get along without.
57 • No subject (by Anonymous at 2007-08-13 17:42:08 GMT from United States)
The problem with the beta testing is that when we go to all the trouble finding the problem all you get is static for it.
If the bug has been there for more than the current release, they really don't want to hear from you again.
I'm not going to tie up my dual core machine for a beta (that I know won't work). They don't seem to want to deal with a P2 or K6-2 machine with 256mb memory any more (my test machine). Even though all the hard ware is all suported with linux but the dual core does not (so you can blame the drivers). You would think you would want the testers that have pre checked their hardware for linux. Blaming bad drivers on the apps when the same apps works in another distro gets old too.
One thing they could do is include the FAQ in a text file and explain the problem when X crashes and drops you to the limited command line shell. Boot loops and black screens with no explanation are unexceptable. 20 minute boots with no status bars to let you know they are still going are almost as bad (make a status bar in 640 X 480 or text if you have to). Also, for your testers benefit use the verbose mode for errors and let us know about long running tasks.
If a start splash screen option is supported, list it in the F1 help.
I'm tired of having to go to other distros sites to find options that solve my problem. If a parameter does not work either translate it or tell me in a F6 screen or something. Don't just ignore it.
If I go to the trouble to give you the screen size and refresh rate, don't waste boot time recalulating it and changing it anyway. My video card may support it but my monitor may not properly. For that matter I put the options in for a reason, if anything save the boot time, give me something for taking the trouble of putting them in.
Make a note of what I put in for next time so I don't have to answer the same 20 questions again (or ask to put one on the hard drive, I'll let you).
Make a install routine that doesn't require a week of research and don't assume that you are the only linux on the machine. Don't trash the grub config first then screw up the boot loader and reference a non available boot floppy to fix it. Bring up a FAQ with how to find the text file with the grub config (from the old install or pick others to add to grub from a list) and tell me how to plug in your line that is needed for yours if need be. Let us know what is not suported or not detected before install. Stop blaming the package creators or wait for them, be a bit more proactive. Detect and let us know that NTFS won't work with GRUB.
Upgrades, put a option on the initial splash screen of the live CD for it. It shouldn't be too hard to detect for your old version on start up during install. For that matter fix your install from splash screen option. Too many distros do not install properly from there any more. Also, when you have a graphical installer from KDE/Gnome you shouldn't have to re-detect everything again and not have to redo all the manual settings again after the HD install.
I get mad when I manually put in the network settings in the live CD and get it working for the HD install and the HD install can't use it because it trashed all the manual settings. I'm tired of having to go through all the packages in symantic to put all my applications back in after a new install for every small version. Maybe the upgrade/install should look for packages that were installed/removed in the old version. Better yet leave them alone or upgrade them through the net after getting a new symantic package list through the net (that is if it is still working).
58 • Suse - Beta Testing (by Anonymous on 2007-08-13 17:50:32 GMT from United States)
Unfortunatly in my house SUSE is the only distro (since 8) that has refused to work on ANY of my 6 machines in the house.
It is also the only one that will still boot loop on my K6-2 machines from a black screen with no message. I have 3 different motherboard brands of them and they all do it. Other distros have fixed the problem but not SUSE.
But, I have seen 10.2 run and the boot was slow and it seemed to run slow. I will give 10.3 a try in a week or so after I get my Semperon machine fixed.
59 • RE 54 : File system race : the winner is not that clear... (by dbrion on 2007-08-13 18:26:20 GMT from France)
"current journaling filesystem benchmark for jfs, ext3, reiser3 and xfs, wigh XFS of COURSE being the clear winner:P
"
When I look at these interesting figure, I see that xfs is slightly better than the 3 others (20%) every operation confonded. Does 5km/h instead of six make a clear difference.
When I look at the details, xfs can be 6 to 8 time SLOWER with deletions (ie 5km/h vs 40 km/h)...
I agree that deletions are rare, but someone who makes many tests (compiling in seperate directories, say)can suffer more, or at least be very surprised by xfs's behavior when removing files....
Reasoning in terms of winner is a gross oversimplification, which breaks the value of the detailed tests....
60 • Marketing beta testing (by Davey on 2007-08-13 18:29:55 GMT from United States)
I think one reason for any dropoff in beta testing is that the environment is often unfriendly or even hostile toward inexperienced testers. I've seen very rude responses to people who report a bug that's already on the list, and toward people with machines deemed irrelevant.
Few distros offer any kind of documentation, tutorials, or FAQs for enthusiastic newbies who want to contribute but don't know the territory. If distros find themselves needed more testers they may need to do some marketing to attract them and create a comfortable environment where they can learn how it all works. OTOH, if they only want hackers doing the testing they should expect that attrition will drive their numbers toward zero.
This wouldn't have to require every distro to reinvent the wheel. Since most distros use bugzilla, a generic set of instructions would get people started. Each distro's special needs could be done as a small supplement. The tech side of Linux is highly developed.. The next frontier will be improving communications with the user/participant community -- which means, first of all, seeing that community as a major asset to the distro. Time to get going on it, 'cause there's a long way to go before this aspect catches up to Linux's technical excellence.
61 • @43 (by john frey on 2007-08-13 19:44:51 GMT from Canada)
"I didn't ask for mp3 to be the most popular choice for music compression, but here we are. Until we all realize ogg is the way to go, and we start buying ogg (instead of stealing from the artists) then we have to use mp3's and convert them to ogg's."
I don't buy CD's and don't listen to a lot of music but the last time I owned a music CD it had .wav files, not mp3. Surely the studios are not releasing all mp3 audio for gods sake. That would be pathetic given the capabilities of todays sound systems.
So why are you using mp3 and speechifying about stealing form artists? If you own the media you can rip to the format of your choice. You don't need mp3 unless you are getting your content from file sharing already. So save the holier than thou speech about proprietary codecs and stealing from artists.
62 • Alpha, Beta, RC and I... (by KimTjik on 2007-08-13 19:55:39 GMT from Sweden)
As many others have pointed out, time is the enemy. Having a family and lot of other responsibilities, testing Linux releases isn't one of my first priorities. In the same time I wish I could do more out of pure gratitude. Fedora has proven to work best for me on a variety of hardware, so if I get time I would probably choose to "support" it by being a more active tester. However I doubt that my limited knowledge would be of great help and secondly Fedora is comparably huge and therefore time consuming (more testers or maybe more vocal ones could maybe have helped Fedora 7 to avoid the disastrous fire-wire stack, which still isn't solved properly; on the other hand issues like these are finally in the hands of the main developers).
I haven't used Vector for a while now, but not too long ago I still used to download and run the Beta and RC releases (it's comparably small and extremely fast to install). What you test is probably to some part decided by what did work for you in the very start of using Linux. I could never for example get stable releases of Ubuntu and most Ubuntu-based distros to work on my main system, so logically I lost interest in testing test releases. Vector and Fedora worked so I found it more promising to keep on testing them. As someone pointed out: when the same issue repeat itself from release to release it becomes less encouraging to be a tester (... but with smaller and newer distributions I'm more patient, as long as the community attitude is open-minded and honest).
A person here mentioned Linux Standard Base, which would be a sweat solution. Still Linux continuous to be very organic, evolving in many directions, so even though I wished there would be some standard solutions, I accept its current state, even though occasionally barking about it.
63 • Where are the hardball questions for Suse? (by Anonymous on 2007-08-13 20:02:04 GMT from United States)
Hmmm, I'm not going to touch OpenSuse until I understand the relationship with M$, and there was not one mention of that...
64 • @57 (by john frey on 2007-08-13 20:08:58 GMT from Canada)
"If the bug has been there for more than the current release, they really don't want to hear from you again."
Yes that's why you are directed to search existing bug reports before filing. Multiple reports on the same bug should be together not scattered throughout, it just clutters the list. Bugzilla is easy to search so there is no excuse for duplicating reports.
"Boot loops and black screens with no explanation are unexceptable. 20 minute boots with no status bars to let you know they are still going are almost as bad "
In the 1st sentence you describe a bug. File a bug report. The 2nd sentence is also a bug. Status bars are unnecessary because you can hit the escape key and see where the boot process is hanging. In fact what would you report with a status bar? The boot process hangs about 2/5 of the way through the boot process?
There are certainly some nuggets of wisdom in your rant. For instance, what happens to the config files you set up when you installed from the live CD? There's an area that could use work for sure.
65 • Freespire 2.0 (by Nenita Domingo on 2007-08-13 20:21:47 GMT from United States)
I downloaded and burned the iso to cd to try out this distribution as I have done with many other linux distros. I am a newbie moving from Win Xp to linux desktop. When I loaded Freespire 2.0 as a live cd to try it out, it completely destroyed my only copy of XP, and now I am not able to boot either XP or Freespire. I later learned that Freespire does not load as a live cd, but rather loads as an installation, but never tells you, does not ask how to partition your hard drive, or anything.
I can reinstall XP but I have lost all of my XP files and program. I would advise anyone contemplating Freespire 2.0 to avoid this distribution as it will destroy your hard drive and is not very good anyway. I think I will stick with UBuntu.
66 • Asian Linux interest (by Bill Lee on 2007-08-13 20:29:58 GMT from Canada)
While you have the countries (suffixes and IP) listed, what are their interests.
Multilingual Distrowatch provides access to a bunch of non-"English" versions.
I just downloaded the new Puppy 2.16 JP (Japanese) version last week as a quick and dirty Kanji system. PUD for PinYin Chinese.
How many distros have CJK-apability? What about other non-Western alphabets such as Thai, Indian sub-continent and others?
Are these new systems getting tested as often? Living in Taiwan, does Mr. Bodnar have a 'mainstream' Linux distro set up for Chinese, Big-5, GuoBiao-1395 etc?
67 • opensuse, mandriva, fedora (by Michael Dotson on 2007-08-13 21:07:34 GMT from United States)
The Beta's and Alpha's of suse, mandriva and fedora captured little of my attention. I have tried them all in the past, and I simply do not like the package management systems they use. I did install Wolvix 1.10, Mint 3.0, and Mepis 6.5 as working units to my computer. Freespire 2.00 lasted one day on my machine, and Saybayon 3.4e never got installed despite trying for 3 hours. Wolvix just works on everything for multimedia, and borrowing a few plugins(namely divx) for firefox from wolvix made both Mint and Mepis its equal for mulimedia. All I need now is that one fluxbox system, so maybe I will try March Linux. Yes, when the next final for suse, fedora, and mandriva comes out I will try them, but until they become as easy to handle as apt-get with synaptic as a front end I doubt they will last more than a day or two.
68 • Re: 65 Freespire (by octathlon on 2007-08-13 21:08:08 GMT from United States)
That's inexcusable behavior for a live CD. I saw this article that has a few more details about it:
http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2007-08-13-001-26-RV-DB
This is the first time I've heard of a live CD touching the hard drive in the default mode (unless the user pays close attention and avoids the trap by choosing a different option at boot). Not good!
69 • @62 (by Adam Williamson on 2007-08-13 22:02:46 GMT from Canada)
Don't worry about your knowledge. Two of the most important parts of testing betas require barely any. There's two main things that the relatively small group of people who run each distro's development release constantly can't do: test every app, and test all pieces of hardware.
You very likely use at least one or two applications that not many other people do, and have one or two pieces of hardware that no-one in the regular testers group does. So by running a beta of a distribution and simply checking that it detects your hardware okay and all your regular applications run as they should, you're doing something very valuable for the distributor. No need to do anything more involved than that.
70 • Re: 63 (by BhaKi on 2007-08-13 22:11:18 GMT from India)
I've heard that the Novell-M$ deal has nothing to do with openSUSE project. It seems to contain terms that concern only SUSE Enterprise Linux.
71 • more on testing (by Joe P on 2007-08-13 22:20:36 GMT from United States)
Distros would probably have much better luck in getting testers if they were better at producing change logs, explaining which features are new and untested, and soliciting comments/input for the changes. The distros with active user forums probably get better testing of their alpha and beta releases. If the changes actually address user needs (like better wifi support, WPA, installers, specifically listed hardware support) the user is more likely to jump on and test.
72 • What I'm testing now: sidux, etc. (by Fractalguy on 2007-08-13 22:24:57 GMT from United States)
re did you download and install any of the above-mentioned development releases?
Yes, these are the latest for me:
sidux-2007-03-200708051825-gaia_pre3-kde-lite
LinuxMint-3.0-XFCE.iso
Fedora-7-KDE-Live-i686.iso
Fedora-7-Live-i686.iso
Too many distros? I like this remark: # 55 "That's like saying there are too many letters in the alphabet." Hehe, that IS a good one. The 256 codes in ASCII are not enough, so now we have 256 squared!
Expect the number of Linux distros to do the same, IMO. The ease of "create your own live CDs" and the ease to custumize in general should make the number grow into the many thousands. Is that too many? Only if you think you have to try them all! Oh, and I'm sure Microsoft thinks it is too many also. After all, playing whack a mole to kill all of them must be getting on their nerves. (Oh - and so many chairs to throw. Oh my dearest! Think of the broken windows.)
After remarks here last week like: 129 . Re 128 (JF) "F7-Gnome Live CD is almost perfect and PCLOS does not even come close." My testing leads me to a remark about Fedora live CDs. To me these are not good general live CDs, and must have been just to show their desktop. The main reason I say this is the inability to do many common things and not load common aps I needed in live mode. I spent time using both and there is just no comparison to, for example, PCLos or Debian based live CDs. I expected a lot more. In Gnome "Openfolder" crashed several times, even crashed taking desktop icons with it. I could then only access thumb drives with CLI. There is no way would I demo this for a newbie from the XP world.
Xfce is considered a light desktop and so we might have lower expectations of such distros as it. So I booted up LinuxMint-3.0-XFCE for about a day. My notes show it came up in 1280x1024 not 1024x768 like Suse-one did. It also comes with OpenOffice 2.2.0, Firefox 2.0.0.6, Exaile 0.2.10, Evince 0.5.2, Gimp 2.2.13, Pidgin 2.1.0. Those might be too "bloated", fine. But I found it ran lively and didn't even start into my swap after a day's use and app loading.
For app loading there is Linux Mint Software Portal, http://www.linuxmint.com/software/, so I say "who needs CNR". :) Well, the selection in the portal is a little limited (got geany, kompozer, opera), so I used synaptic or apt to get links2, and wesnoth. All this in live mode. I continued browsing, web dev, coding and even playing a new game. This was not easily doable with the big name distros, IMO.
Mint is a very nice distro. But for me, now, I'm using Sidux on my HD. More my speed when I'm not hopping - make that "floating" - on live CDs.
So do we have too many distros? No, hell no! If we were limited to the big four, I for one would be very disappointed. Do I do testing and report it? Sure, and most of my "complaints" are user error or ignorance. But I figure since I've been doing this for almost 4 years and if I screw up, it just might be something more the distro could do. Perhaps. Or not. :)
I like to hang out on the chats while testing. This often settles issues within a few minutes. The chats are great. I have seen others pop in, ask a Q, get an A, exit; often all in less then 2 minutes. And that goes for Puppy, PCLos, Mint, Elive, Sidux, Knoppix and even busy Ubuntu. I've seen real bugs debugged live before my eyes with the dev saying he was putting in the change for next release. Many devs hang out or are only a ping away.
But don't get me started... :)
73 • distrowatch questions (by Jose Benitez on 2007-08-13 22:28:32 GMT from Puerto Rico)
Hi, I'm from Puerto Rico. I've been using Suse Linux for three years. Suse is my favorite distro and very happy with it. I got rid of MS Windows two years ago. Right
now, I've got OpenSuse 10.2 and Ubuntu 7.04 installed on a Compaq Presario v5115US ( AMD Turion 64 Mobile Processor Ml-32 with powernow ( 1.8GHz, 512KB L2 cache, up to 1600MHz system bus), 1024MB RAM, 80GB HD, DVD+-R/RW and CD-RW combo drive with double layer support, ATI Radeon XPRESS 200M). The only reason I,ve got Ubuntu is because I want get familiar and used to it in order to help those people using Ubuntu for the first time understand linux. I am loyal user of SUSE. I've tried Sabayon, Mint, Puppy, Mandriva, Fedora, Freespire, SimplyMepis, Wolvix, PCLinuxOS, Yoper and ZenWalk. Puppy Linux 2.17 is awesome for small distro. Pardus and Wolvix play almost all multimedia directly from a Live-CD. Sabayon Linux 3.4e is beautiful and an almost complete distro like Fedora, SUSE, Fedora and Ubuntu. PCLinuxOS 2007 and Mandriva 2007 are easy and convenient. Fedore 8 has become very pretty and easy, too. Ubuntu is very easy, too, and very fast.
What I like about SUSE are the Packman and Guru third-party repositories; all software are update. Besides SUSE, For now, I stay with Ubuntu. I want Three distros on my laptop but it's been diffucult for to choose one apart from suse and Ubuntu. As a lightmeighted Live-CD distro I choose Puppy Linux. As a multipurpose Live-CD distro I choose Pardus. Mandriva is been in my mind for quite long but I think I will wait for Mandriva 2008.
74 • Where's KDE going? (by BhaKi on 2007-08-13 22:35:55 GMT from India)
Can someone explain to me why of late distro-makers are trying to force GNOME into people's throats? I'm using Fedora 7 and I have noticed that the "start new session" functionality of KDE doesn't integrate at all with GDM. In earlier days, when i used openSUSE-10.1 (with KDM), i used to work seamlessly with multiple sessions. For that and many other reasons, I feel that KDM is a more advanced login manager than GDM. When i tried to replace GDM with KDM on Fedora 7 (using methods mentioned on fedorawiki), my X server is giving non-deterministic problems.
I'm desperately looking for a major distro with focus on KDE.
75 • re 72 • What I'm testing now (by Fractalguy on 2007-08-13 23:20:43 GMT from United States)
"1024x768 like Suse-one did." I'm very so sorry, I ment "like Mandravia". Please excuse me, it was not Suse-one. Both of the Mandravia One (KDE and Gnome) only gave me 1024x768. Ugly.
And re 68 • Re: 65 Freespire (by octathlon) Wow, what an article you referenced. One wonders what Linspire for pay does. Hmmm. I guess I could try, since I have one: Linspire Five-O, never been opened. Hmmm. Nope, too risky. I'll wait for someone else to report in. Thanks.
76 • No subject (by BhaKi on 2007-08-13 23:30:08 GMT from India)
Show me a link where i can find the OFFICIAL (because i hate reverse-engineering and relying on unreliable documentation) specification of the layout a .mp3 file, i would be pleased to give you a completely FREE mp3 codec for your OS. Trust me, you can't find such info because the .mp3 format is, by definition, a secret format. It is such a secret that you can have the official specification if and only if you pay money to the Motion Pictures Group directly or indirectly. Now you would ask me - "If it is such a secret, how come M$-shit and Real-shit be able to play it?". It is because part of the money you pay to M$, Real, etc goes to Motion Pictures Group (directly or indirectly). So for gods sake, stop pestering distro-makers for mp3 codecs. Instead, do the following:
* If someone gives you an mp3 file, politely say to him/her - "Neither me nor the guy who codes multimedia applications for me knows this format. So tell me about this format or atleast give me a link where i can know about this format. If you can't do that, please give me the file in a format like .ogg about which both of us can freely know."
* When you distribute music, make sure that it is in a form that both you and your recipients can understand freely.
* When you give music to others in .mp3 format, keep a feeling in mind that you are encrypting your music (encrypting with money not keys).
Oh my god! what a funny situation the world is in! A secret layout has become an industry-standard layout !!!
YOU and PEOPLE LIKE YOU are responsible for this funny situation.
For your information, the definition of .ogg format is available at http://xiph.org/vorbis/doc/
77 • Re 67 (by Smart Fan on 2007-08-14 00:21:44 GMT from Australia)
67 • opensuse, mandriva, fedora (by Michael Dotson on 2007-08-13 21:07:34 GMT from United States)
Yes, when the next final for suse, fedora, and mandriva comes out I will try them, but until they become as easy to handle as apt-get with synaptic as a front end I doubt they will last more than a day or two.
=====================
SMART is there and your excuses are pretty lame, IMO. Its a better package manager than synaptic - resolves dependencies much more accurately.
http://susewiki.org/index.php?title=SMART_Package_Manager
HOWTO: How to install Smart Package Manager for FC3
http://fedoranews.org/blog/?p=573
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Package_Manager
The Smart Package Manager project has the ambitious objective of creating smart and portable algorithms for solving adequately the problem of managing software upgrading and installation. This tool works in all major distributions, and will bring notable advantages over native tools currently in use (APT, APT-RPM, YUM, URPMI, etc).
Notice that this project is not a magical bridge between every distribution in the planet. Instead, this is a software offering better package management for these distributions, even when working with their own packages. Using multiple package managers at the same time (like rpm and dpkg) is possible, even though not the software goal at this moment.
http://labix.org/smart
Author: Gustavo Niemeyer
Credits
*
Conectiva Inc. - Funded the creation of Smart, and its development up to August of 2005.
*
Canonical Ltd. - Is funding Smart development since September of 2005.
*
Wanderlei Cavassin - Conectiva's research & development coordinator, who belived the project was viable and encouraged the author to work on it.
*
Ednilson Miura & Herton Ronaldo Krzesinski - Conectiva employees, helped setting up many distributions for tests whenever necessary.
*
Andreas Hasenack - Conectiva employee, helped as being the first brave pre-alpha tester, and contributed with many ideas, discussions, etc.
*
Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo - Conectiva board member, helped with the "channel of mirrors" idea and by encouraging the author to build a generic channel.
*
Others @ Conectiva - Many other people in Conectiva helped with ideas and alpha-testing in general during the pre-release period of Smart development.
*
Guilerme Manika & Ruda Moura - Ancient Conectiva employees, now board members of the Haxent company, helped by testing Smart extensively in Fedora, reporting many bugs and suggesting changes. Also the original authors of the FAQ.
*
APT-RPM & Debian - Experience on packaging and ideas for a better framework were developed while the author of Smart worked as the APT-RPM maintainer.
*
Jeff Johnson - Contributed as being the RPM maintainer itself, and in many discussions regarding packaging theory in general.
*
Seth Vidal - YUM author, and member of the Duke University, contributed to Smart with the development of the XML MetaData repository format and discussions about it.
*
Michael Vogt - Currently the maintainer of the Synaptic, used to co-maintain it with the author of Smart. Many of his ideas ended up being adopted in Smart as a consequence.
*
Sebastian Heinlein - Author of the package icons for Synaptic, that were mercilessly stolen to be used in Smart's graphic interface.
*
TaQ/PiterPunk at #slackware-br - These guys helped Smart development by explaining details of Slackware practices regarding packaging.
*
Matt Zimmerman - Debian/Ubuntu developer and co-maintainer of the APT software, helped by shining some light regarding details of the DPKG pre-depends ordering expectations.
*
Mauricio Teixeira - FAQ maintenance, YaST2 channel maintainer, "tracker cleaner" ;), general suggestions and code contributions.
*
Jonathan Rocker - Documentation help.
78 • Beta Testing Distros (by UZ64 on 2007-08-14 01:23:26 GMT from United States)
I used to "test" distros much more than I do now, but that was mostly because the world of Linux was new to me and I was trying to learn the differences between distros to settle on one. Every once in a while, I might have posted a bug report on the forums, but more often, I was searching for answers to my own questions (which were often known bugs). These days, I've got an external 120GB drive dedicated to different distros/operating systems/live CDs, and tend to keep it up to date with the latest stable releases. Lately, there haven't been too many things new in distros to impress me to the point of thinking, "I gotta try this out..."
Currently running the latest Zenwalk, and have been running this distro for years. I have tried the very latest Fedora and Debian Etch, and actually can't even remember the last testing distro I tried (aside from a Fedora 8 alpha LiveCD that refused to run on my system whatsoever, likely due to my limited RAM and all the development/bug testing tools). I knew these were specifically problems relating to the development build and the tools included, so I didn't feel the need to bug Fedora. Since then, I have tried the "final" versions of the live CDs and have had no problems with them, as expected.
79 • Beta Testing Distros (by Zaine Ridling on 2007-08-14 01:51:25 GMT from United States)
I try to download at least one or two test distros a month, but as you say, I often don't have time to spend with it, more than a day or two. While I've done bugzilla reports on specific software, I haven't done any on the distros. GNU/Linux has become my main machine, and thus my work/productivity system, too. Loading a second computer with various test distros is fun, but with some, it takes too much after-installation tinkering to get everything to work.
The most attractive distros to me are the ones that are graphically fast (offering an Xfce version), and allow me to build a custom setup after installation. FAST INSTALL GOOD; DOWNLOADING EXTRAS AFTER INSTALL GOOD; SLOW, BLOATED DISTROS ARE ALWAYS BAD NEWS. If I wanted that, I'd go back to Microsoft. Zenwalk is the best I've come across, next to SLED 10-SP1, but SLED 10 is way slow.
80 • Release of distros last week (by dick on 2007-08-14 04:12:56 GMT from United States)
Wolvix Hunter 1.1.0 and Wolvix Cub 1.1.0 were both released last week and for some reason you did not mention them. I have the Hunter installed and am finding it works very well indeed. Very pleased with it.
Now I am waiting for the Mini version of Sabayon 3.4 as that is my other potential final version of Linux right now. We shall see how they compare.
81 • RE: 80 Release of distros last week (by ladislav on 2007-08-14 04:18:28 GMT from Taiwan)
Wolvix 1.1.0 was released on August 4th, you must have missed it:
http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=04392
82 • RE: 50 : Testing and Number of Distros (by Sandman on 2007-08-14 06:54:01 GMT from Pakistan)
I agree with your quote " I think DW should remove all distros not in the top 100"
Ladislav need to check which distro enlisted on distrowatch is actually active and if not should remove it and give space to new awaiting & more deserving distros. e.g trying to access easys GNU/Linux from main distrowatch page http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=easys ,the link to easys GNU/Linux i.e http://easys.gnulinux.de goes to this link https://de.lincomp.eu/, so easys people are dead and they are using distrowatch page to be directed to their commerical? page lincomp .
where is the easys GNU/Linux gone? dead? do they have the right to stay on distrowatch? Ladislav is the better judge.
83 • Re: 50, 82 (by Anonymous on 2007-08-14 07:45:37 GMT from Malaysia)
Sultan Khan wrote
I think DW should remove all distros not in the top 100. Any new distros can be included for 6 months and if they don't make it to the top 100, they should be removed. The passionate devs who have time to make their own distros would be much more useful fixing up the popular distros.
Sandman wrote
I agree with your quote " I think DW should remove all distros not in the top 100"
Distrowatch is unique because Ladislav maintains a record of ALL active distros. This can be useful for anyone who is interested in an obscure distro for some reason (for example #182 Red Flag). For other users, there is a Page Hit Ranking of the top 100 distros on the homepage as well as a link to Major Distributions: http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major.
84 • Qu 82 Why 100? and 33 : Is command prompt booting a flaw? (by dbrion on 2007-08-14 08:30:54 GMT from France)
I thint DW should keep the 77 most popular distrs, for astrological reasons and because popularity has a huge interest... Now, have you any _rational_ reason to remove distributions from DW data base (some of them are very used for professionnal reasons, though highly unpopular [not sexy enough, I suppose]) ?
"Does Dragonfly Bsd still boot to a command prompt, or have they
finally put in a gui like KDE or something.?"
I have a friend who has a 6 years old PC: at this age, it is an insult giving it to a poor, throwing it into a bin would pollute. I installed a linux +KDE, for him to compile and test huge programs he happily develops under Windows on a new singing, video-playing (why put Linux on such a gem: XP does the good fancy job!! ) laptop....
Sometimes, he needs all the memory KDE uses (else, it goes into swap and is sloww; it would be the same thing with _any_desktop) =>
starting in two phases,
* one on a CLI (and hitting startx doesnot hurt his little fingers), and,
*if _and_only_if_ one doesnot have to use too many ressources, one starts the desktop.... is an advantage in this case...
85 • I find the testing question a stupid one (by Nobody in Particular on 2007-08-14 08:38:39 GMT from United States)
If the Linux community can't get it threw their thick heads that the majority of the world just want to use their hardware and not have to maintain it.
Plug n Play/Work/or both.
Sure there is a lot of "Home Mechanics" that will do easy stuff even in the Windows World. However, for the most part life is too short and so is each day. REAL people have jobs, a life, friends, chores, and their share of lifes problems to have to worry about what needs to work. The other problem that seems to burnout people with Linux is that every release seems like a brand new release with all the Headaches that come with brand new releases. For once it would be nice not to have to worry about something that was working in the prior release not working in the new release.
Then comes the suggestions, unless you are contributing in a big way chances are your "suggestions" especially GUI suggestions fall on deaf ears.
While a lot of people in the Linux community still heckles the new user for not learning the "command line" way of things truly don't understand all these new users that are attracted to Linux and WHY they are attracted to Linux.
Fact is, it has been the free as in "no money" and the mass improvement to Linux's Graphical User Interface.
Freedom is Never Free. There is always a price to pay. A lot of people, knowledgable enough or not to help, find that time is lot more precious than money and thus would spend the money to make sure that it is done. Problem is that most of these people willing to do this want their computer to work seamlessly without effort and without any fuss about how to do it.
Basically, Point and click.
I'm one of those branded Evil by the Linux Community because I don't contribute. I just use Linux.
Got to much to worry about and to little time to enjoy life to worry about what mistakes some developer made.
What really gets me is just about every Linux distro has at least one major absolutely obvious blunder that has to be pointed out by the community. Come on, I mean us little people with no where near the capability of the supposedly few active developers who have the knowledge and they didn't catch it?
There will always be bugs in software, every developer knows that. Some of these bugs linger for years. I think it would be a ignorant to think that developers don't know what bugs exist and what don't. Most of the time, developers try to make a deadline. Most of the time they don't, so they just release it as stable and hope for the best. If there are any major issues distro maintainers just release a security/patch/upgrade to fix it or better yet reissue the old working code as a new version number perhaps optimising it just a bit for speed just enough to justify the number version change.
Why bring up the dirt about Linux. Yes people your/our OS run by the Power of Linux is still vunerable to the same problems that face the all companies open or closed because it aint perfect and it still run by Humans. Problem is that demand has been greater for Linux and the Open source model challenged. Can the Open Source model truly work in the most demanding and very large market segment - The Destop Market.
Fact is people just want to use their computer and not deal with the headaches that come with trying to get it to work in the first place. Matter of Fact, look at game consoles, still behind the wonder of the Modern PC world in gaming wowness yet more popular now than ever even more than PC gaming. Why? Is it because of the power the game machines posses? No. Is it the ratio of cost per performance is better with a game console? Maybe. Is it the fact that all you have to do is pop a damn disc in the machine and you play the game without have to See other crap around you (in other words - true Plug and Play).
But again this rambling will fall on deaf ears. Still don't see that all this mumbo about open source is just redistributing the same bull crap we face in the close source.
Don't believe it. Imaging how hardware developers feel about the Open Source Community forcing their crap down their throats. There are legit reasons that hardware companies don't open source their stuff. Sort of like how we are treated on this side of the fence with the RIAA and MPAA at times. Same tactics just not against us. Of course as good little humans we are when it doesn't affect us its ok to do it to the big guys. No wonder we don't get any love from companies because quite frankly we don't give love back either. FSF is just the RIAA MPAA to Hardware creaters and perhaps some users which is why Linux today still struggles with hardware support specially newly release hardware. A lot of people in the Business world don't like the GPL and often view it in the same way many of us in the United States view our own DMCA laws.
Bascally the whole Open Source Model seems to have mutated into some You do it to us so we are doing it to you thing"
Seems a bit hypocritical to me
People don't like to be told what to do - even people who make the Hardware.
Shareware model worked for me. It wasn't necessarily the money to pay for software that killed me it was buying before using then have to deal with the crap of trying to get my money back which no matter what kind of rights we have as citizens is a pain in the neck to get back plus the Shareware model prevents free loading. Problem with the Shareware model for software developers is that it better work and work well and there is no excuse. With Linux Distros there is over 90% of them that give you that "use at your own risk warning"
How about this Open source community. Instead of forcing hardware makers to do Open source why don't you get of your duffs and build your own open source hardware? Oh, wait? What is it? Lack of Funds? Not enough Mark Shuttleworths to go around. Or is the truth really that the Technical Software wizards truly know why a lot of Hardware Makers don't open their software and hardware that is why they don't try it.
I actually am disappointed with Mark Shuttleworth? He supposedly has all this money why is he spending it on fruitless backwards engineering Nvidia drivers when he has the money to start his own Open Source Graphic Card company specifically aim at the Open Source community which by the way probably could work on close systems like Windows and Apple too. Anybody ever ask him that question. Seems to me the latter would be more efficient and faster but perhaps could cost more to startup.
Why does it Seem that Distro Beta Testing seems to have dwindled or not supported very much?
When the Linux Community can stop asking these silly questions will be the true time to say it is the Year of Linux.
Meantime People like me will keep on using the Linux Distro that is the most efficient user friendly we can find out-of-box that gets the job done. If developers break it. It is their fault not mine. If they don't fix it. I just have to find some other Distro to use.
86 • Qu 85 Do new shoes work out of the Holy box? (by dbrion on 2007-08-14 09:18:25 GMT from France)
And one accepts to pay for them, and to suffer!, but one does not accept to type 2 or 3 lines for free software....
And one types tens of utterly unconvincing lines to say cliclicking should be the future...
87 • Upcoming mandriva (by glyj on 2007-08-14 09:24:54 GMT from New Caledonia)
I think many interesting things are about to come in the new mandriva, as we can see in the technical specs :
http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Development/Ideas/Technical_specs_2008
beta cassini actually, has limitations : i586 only, free software only (but cooker mirrors are available...) and several things not implemented yet.
88 • Nobody in Particular (by Dubigrasu on 2007-08-14 09:36:21 GMT from Romania)
Well...he has some valid points, I think...and yes, clicking over typing is the future at least for the simple Linux user, after all, not everyone is a dev or similar...Should Linux be only for geeks? Even if we don't agree with everything he said we don't have to dismiss his post...We have KDE and GNOME and not only plain terminal for a reason
89 • @85 sad but true.... (by glyj on 2007-08-14 09:38:48 GMT from New Caledonia)
I often meet people who don't like much Mandriva, because it's a point and click dristro, you don't have anything to do, as they say.
It's exactly what I want from my distro :
Launch the CD >> install & configure hardware >> configure remote software repositories >> add some apps.
When it's done in about 1 or 2 hours, I only USE it. All the installation work has only one goal : USING the distro. Mandriva, for me, is perfect for that.
As a workstation, to preserve stability, I'm now very selective before installing updates (only few apps during the life of the release on my HD).
regards,
glyj
90 • 2007 Desktop Linux Market survey (by Anonymous on 2007-08-14 10:22:42 GMT from Australia)
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7943272425.html
91 • 2006 Desktop Linux Market survey - Results (by Miracle in the air on 2007-08-14 10:52:07 GMT from Australia)
http://www.desktoplinux.com/cgi-bin/survey/survey.cgi?view=archive&id=0821200617613
Predicting this year's top ten used distros and their percentages wouldbe a good punt.
2006
1. Ubuntu (including Kubuntu, Edubuntu) 29.2 %
2. Debian 12.2 %
3. openSUSE 10.1 %
4. Gentoo 9.6 %
5. Fedora 7 %
6. Mandriva (including Mandrake, Lycoris, Connectiva) 4.8 %
7. Slackware (or SLAX liveCD) 4.6 %
8. Knoppix LiveCD 2.9 %
9 .Novell SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop (SLED) 2.9 %
10. Red Hat 2.2 %
PCLinuxOS 2 %
SimplyMEPIS 1.5 %
Me predicts that the voting machine will push these last two well up to the top!
:-)
92 • Linux distributions number shrink and grow like evolution (by hobbitland on 2007-08-14 11:29:39 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi, I think Linux distributions are similar to evolution on earth. Many distributions are fine for some genetic varirations.
The number of distributions can go down just like the number of species of animals on earth. When someone invents a new idea like Knoppix for livecd there is a suddenly surge in the number of distros just like sudden genetic changes leading to mutants.
Some mutants distros will die while others will take over the dominate distro (species). Its all about natural selection. The number of users of a distro is like the population of a species. They determine whether a distro suceeds or folks (mutants).
The problem with have is that the world is dominated by Windows clones. There is no genetic differences and so they catch viruses easily.
We just have to wait and see when the next new thing comes up.
93 • re: 56 Number of Distros (by Anonymous on 2007-08-14 14:43:14 GMT from United States)
What's next, everyone wear the same clothes? Only one race of people allowed? Hail Carter!
94 • post 89 (by Geoff on 2007-08-14 15:00:25 GMT from United States)
"point and click"
har.. I remember when, if one were to be so brash as to suggest such a thing in a Linux Usenet group, one could find one's self set upon by Linux zealots, and quite seriously. CLI was the beloved tool for building and using your distro.. gui was (*gasp*) Micro$oft crap.
Heh.. you've come a long way, baby.
95 • @61: John Frey (by superbnerb on 2007-08-14 17:16:08 GMT from Canada)
mp3's are bought from itunes or other online stores. wav files exist on CD's but when the mood strikes, on buys the songs from itunes instead of stealing. So bear with the speech about stealing a bit longer friend.
So if a guy has a collection of MP3's, bought from an online store, this guy only gets a choice of mp3 or someother lame crap. Only one store offers ogg, but they don't have any music worth caring about.
either way, good discussion had by all. i still am under the assumption that conary is the way to go.
96 • Testing Development Releases (by Michael Bear on 2007-08-14 18:47:13 GMT from United States)
Yes, I downloaded the Gnome version of Suse 10.3 Beta 1 to try it out [I' not really a 'tester']. I've always liked Suse.
M. Bear
97 • Sidux 2007-03 (by vzduch on 2007-08-14 19:08:17 GMT from Germany)
Looks like Sidux 2007-03 is just out... at least it's in the topic of their IRC channel. Please keep an eye on DW so you don't miss the official announcement. :)
As for testing, I usually don't do it - shame on me! ;) I don't even know if I'm going to stick with Sidux, still contemplating to either go to Fedora for a second try or wait for openSUSE 10.3 to return to the lizard. If it's as fast as it boots, we can expect one hell of a distro!
98 • Re: Sidux 2007-03 (by vzduch on 2007-08-14 19:11:49 GMT from Germany)
Ah, there we have it :) ... it's just not yet on my favourite DW mirror.
99 • Removing distros? Bad idea... (by UZ64 on 2007-08-14 19:14:46 GMT from United States)
I agree that there are far too many distros out there, but have to question why people would want to remove any completely from the database... unless they've been discontinued. It would make more sense to remove some from the *main list,* but still keep them easily accessible for those who want to go exploring something the majority of people wouldn't want to bother with (especially firewalls and other specialty distros, server distros, heavily experimental advanced command line distros, etc.).
Maybe come up with some rating system, where a user can rate a distro either excellent, good, neutral, bad, terrible, etc.? As a distro gets enough "bad" and "terrible" reviews, it gets moved off the main list, and can get a chance to revive itself by coming out with a new version and awaiting more (hopefully more positive) votes. Only problem is, it might be difficult to set up.
The distro lists could also be made easier to navigate by simple organizing them into categories such as "Home / Desktop, Servers, System Tools (ie. Parted Magic), Firewalls, International Languages, Old Machines, Live CDs, etc. That way, you wouldn't have to sort through all the crap you don't care about. The only problem is that many distros have a standard desktop installation CD, a live version, a server installation CD, etc., so that would likely complicate things. Still though... I think the distros need more organization, instead of completely removing the ones the majority of people likely won't use.
100 • re: 99 Removing Distros (by Anonymous on 2007-08-14 20:29:09 GMT from United States)
I agree that removing distros is bad. A while back someone had a great suggestion though. Color code the distros based on the frequency of updates. This way you could see at a glance if a distro is under heavy development or just some guy/gal with a hobby doing bi-annual updates. That's not to say that the bi-annual update distro can't also be number one! :-)
101 • @NIP (by Anonymous on 2007-08-14 22:56:18 GMT from France)
"There are legit reasons that hardware companies don't open source their stuff."
That's one of your points, but I'm new to both hardware and OSS worlds, could you expand on that, or point to good ressources?
Thanks in advance.
105 • RE: Freespire destroying XP (by ezsit on 2007-08-15 02:40:36 GMT from United States)
To the person who could not read the boot choices upon booting a Freespire CD -- READ THE BOOT CHOICES AND MAKE THE CORRECT DECISION. Yes, the first choice is boot to installation routine. Maybe this is a poor choice, maybe not. However, at no point in time is the user NOT aware of what the system is about to do.
" downloaded and burned the iso to cd to try out this distribution as I have done with many other linux distros. I am a newbie moving from Win Xp to linux desktop. When I loaded Freespire 2.0 as a live cd to try it out, it completely destroyed my only copy of XP, and now I am not able to boot either XP or Freespire. I later learned that Freespire does not load as a live cd, but rather loads as an installation, but never tells you, does not ask how to partition your hard drive, or anything.
I can reinstall XP but I have lost all of my XP files and program. I would advise anyone contemplating Freespire 2.0 to avoid this distribution as it will destroy your hard drive and is not very good anyway. I think I will stick with UBuntu."
106 • Beta releases (by Osman Breskens on 2007-08-15 12:31:07 GMT from Switzerland)
I haven't tried any of the beta releases mentioned - but I have tried the largely ignored -rc1 release of Ark Linux 2007.1, it's more fun to report bugs and suggest features to people who actually listen to what you have to say, and who give you a reason for denying a request instead of just saying RESOLVED:WONTFIX or the likes.
I can't wait for Ark Linux 2007.1 final, the -rc is great.
107 • Monitor drivers (by Anonymous on 2007-08-15 12:42:18 GMT from Germany)
i can not find a monitor driver for a new flat monitor. the driver wasnt in the xorg driver collection. so how to setup it right? or the drivers of nvidia and ati will do it ok automatic?
108 • RE: 106 Beta releases (by ladislav on 2007-08-15 12:45:50 GMT from Taiwan)
Well, it looks like you don't have to wait any longer:
ftp://ftp.oregonstate.edu/pub/arklinux/2007.1/iso/
109 • Open Solaris is Novell IP, Stolen by SCO, then sold to Sun. (by Distrowatch Reader on 2007-08-15 13:30:19 GMT from United States)
When are you Distrowatch going to remove all OpenSolaris Offerings.
Novell not Sco, not Sun, own's the UNIX IP in Open Solaris.
110 • Partial answ to 74 (KDE direction) (by dbrion on 2007-08-15 15:31:10 GMT from France)
"74 • Where's KDE going? (by BhaKi on 2007-08-13 22:35:55 GMT from India)
Can someone explain to me why of late distro-makers are trying to force GNOME into people's throats? I'm using Fedora 7 and I have noticed that the "start new session" functionality of KDE doesn't integrate at all with GDM. In earlier days, when i used openSUSE-10.1 (with KDM), i used to work seamlessly with multiple sessions. For that and many other reasons, I feel that KDM is a more advanced login manager than GDM. When i tried to replace GDM with KDM on Fedora 7 (using methods mentioned on fedorawiki), my X server is giving non-deterministic problems.
I'm desperately looking for a major distro with focus on KDE.
"
Perhaps it is because KDE will have a major update :
as this can lead to major regressions (or users being unhappy because they must change their habits),
a conservative (and wise IMHO) way is to offer GNome, and to concentrate on new devloppments.
{Nota : in 2004, when I asked which desktop I had to put after adding some RAM, I was answered KDE, as Gnome seemed more buggy; in 2005, Gnome seemed less buggy and people used Gnome =>
I have no opinion about which of these 2 desktops is "the best" |if "the best" can be defined], once debugged and users getting accustomed to}
111 • Suse was... pretty but Yast make any task to tedious (by Luis Medina on 2007-08-16 15:52:57 GMT from Mexico)
Suse has a good view and use on the all-day work but when do you need to config, install or something like that Yast make any task tedios, and allways need to do the same en tasks that install a tiny package take too many time... just to re-config all whit the same confg... I hate that...
112 • RE #64 reply of #57 (by Anonymous on 2007-08-16 16:08:01 GMT from United States)
Why should I have to dig back 3 releases to find when it was originally reported and still not fixed. You don't expect anyone to go back that far before you even install the system. As was keenly mentioned in the next post #65 and #105, the bug leaves your machine a blinking black box that can't get a command prompt let alone to the net to dig down to find the unfixed bug/feature. This stuff needs to get documented on the livecd. I'm sure linspire was one of the distros that #57 was thinking about when he was typing. It did not sound like a rant to me.
90% of black screens that I have got are from a unsuported video modes. When it gets hung you can't switch to verbose mode to read the messages. Some even drop out of verbose mode and go back to graphical even if you put it on the command line at start up.
113 • Re:
74 • Where's KDE going? (by Ariszló on 2007-08-16 21:21:58 GMT from Hungary)
BhaKi wrote: I'm desperately looking for a major distro with focus on KDE.
Kubuntu, Mepis, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS, Slackware, Arch, etc. Debian also has an installation cd for KDE users: debian-40r0-i386-kde-CD-1.iso.
114 • RE: "which distro is the best?" (by mick clark on 2007-08-16 21:44:01 GMT from United States)
Whenever someone asks this question, the answer always begins with," well it depends on what you want to do with it" or "well it depends on how experienced a user you are" or something like that. Well here is the answer without all the qualifiers. If you want an operating system that that you can just install on your machine and run almost all your stuff without ever bringing up a console and have it recognize your system, internet connection , display, printer ,etc. One that is easy, graphical, intuitive, clean and configurable by almost anyone,(even I can do it), then Linux Mint 3.0 is the one for you. I only say this after having downloaded and installed almost all of the Distrowatch top 100. And I'm talking HD installs. Now all of the good ones have their following and certainly all of the top 10 at least are wonderful compared to some of the competition but this version of Mint doesn't seem to have any bugs or glitches that would confound the average user, and that is critical if someone is trying to switch over. As a Linux only user, I'd say that Mint is hard to beat.
115 • Re 113...major distro with focus on KDE. (by Anonymous on 2007-08-17 01:01:04 GMT from Australia)
>Kubuntu, Mepis, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS, Slackware, Arch, etc. Debian<
Of the above list only Mandriva is "Major" and has a focus on KDE, IMHO. Debian is Major but they do not focus on KDE.
My recommendation would be OpenSuse and Mandriva as the two major distros that put out great KDE editions.
I would recommend openSuse 10.2 with SMART package manager. Install smart and smart-gui rpms from the DVD or opensuse oss repos and the smart addons rpm (to autmatically configure all the best repos for a great linux experience) from the guru repo and you should have no problems.
Opensuse 10.2 had a few minor bugs that might hinder correct screen resolution at setup (eg some sytems that use 915 resolution) but all mine were fixed after updating.
After trying all the major and many non-major (though they might claim they are major), I am back to openSuse 10.2 and will stick with it till support runs out at the end of next year! It has the best power management (using kpowersave) support for my notebook and great repos and documentation. All the other distros make my cpu run hot when on AC and under resonable load but openSuse 10.2 does not.
116 • Re 111...Be SMART and use SMART package manager (by Smart Fan on 2007-08-17 01:12:53 GMT from Australia)
>111 • Suse was... pretty but Yast make any task to tedious (by Luis Medina on 2007-08-16 15:52:57 GMT from Mexico)
Suse has a good view and use on the all-day work but when do you need to config, install or something like that Yast make any task tedios, and allways need to do the same en tasks that install a tiny package take too many time... just to re-config all whit the same confg... I hate that...<
And you shall have no reason to complain!
Its a VERY SIMPLE solution.
117 • 114 • RE: "which distro is the best?" (by mick clark) (by Fractalguy on 2007-08-17 05:51:45 GMT from United States)
"Linux Mint 3.0 is the one for you."
Having burned and run at least 80 distros including Mint's latest Gnome, Xfce and KDE releases, I have to agree. All three are easy to use, with a consistant look and feel. Their Linux Mint Software Portal (http://www.linuxmint.com/software/) is about as easy to use as I've seen for adding popular software.
118 • Stop to beta testing (by Giorgio Beltrammi on 2007-08-17 07:30:42 GMT from Italy)
It's incredible!
I am the only italian that posted on Distrowatch this week.
In the past year i downloaded many beta version of many distros, but in this last six months, my only downloads are for stable liveCD versions of any Linux/BSD distros available.
Timeless to test and other activities in my life (like update my blog about the news from Distrowatch) are the main reasons.
Bye from Italy
119 • Nothing new but... (by KimTjik on 2007-08-17 09:28:16 GMT from Sweden)
I've set up and worked with Arch "Don't panic" for some days now and what can I say but, it's a great and quite wonderful distribution. Arch gives "simple" a new meaning, and frankly some of its configurations are so KISS; I know some think that anything except GUI can't be simple, but if you don't Arch is for you.
Reading the Wiki before installation and configuration is necessary. I for example hastily started to use "adduser" with options and lost some minutes getting it right until I noticed that Arch has a script running if "adduser" is written without any extra options. My bad, I should have checked the guide first. The package system "pacman" is surprisingly fast, and with such an easy repository to search in and how some packages have been put together in one (if you want one of them you want the others as well), it doesn't take long before your system has what you want. I was very pleased with Fedora 7 and I'm just as pleased with this release of Arch!
Linux Mint 3.0: I used it to save some time when a person asked me to install Linux on his computer; saving time meaning not having to spend a single minute on codecs stuff (I don't mind doing it myself, because there's not an awful lot of extra codecs needed anyway). The system boots pretty slow. My overall impression is that the whole package was better than average. All the GUI configuration menus was confusing though (I suppose you get used to it). I commend them for supporting different file systems for installation. I checked the forum and they seem to be positive and open-minded about other distros as well - good. What I found strange was that the network configuration wouldn't work until the service was stopped and started several times, but I've no clue to why. Mint isn't my distro of choice, nevertheless I do understand why it's well regarded by many.
120 • Development Installs (by FlatlinerUK on 2007-08-17 11:02:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
Yes, I have installed every alpha of openSUSE 10.3 and will be installing beta2 (missed beta 1 due to work / time commitments) this weekend.
None of my Linux installs last too long, other than the one on my laptop (openSUSE 10.2). I only update that when openSUSE release a new stable release (eagerly awaiting 10.3 in Oct). My development machine (an old AMD Athlon PC) gets the constant updates and currently has installs of openSUSE, Debian, Vector Linux, Solaris & PC-BSD (on three HD's), although only openSUSE really gets updated regularly
121 • Wrong weekend (by FlatlinerUK on 2007-08-17 11:04:20 GMT from United Kingdom)
Sorry, Beta 2 to be installed next weekend (b2 release date mixed up with b1).
122 • Re "Which distro is best?" (by Tim on 2007-08-17 14:02:07 GMT from Canada)
Most people who have seen my posts here before would probably label me a "PCLinuxOS Fan-Boy", because I've always had such great things to say about it.
The truth is I've tried a lot of distro's and think there are many that are easy to use and install, and even as I type am downloading Mint 3.0 KDE to try. One of the reasons I brag up PCLinuxOS is that of all I've tried it's the only one that "just works" on just about every system I've ever tried it on, where so many others won't work on anything I own. Ease of installation, a pretty complete finished product, and simple to install new software to using Synaptic are just a few of the many reasons I choose PCLinuxOS, but a lot also has to do with how easy setting up wireless internet on this operating system is. My hardware isn't brand new technology, but is far from old too, and one of the determining factors of if a new OS I'm trying remains on for more than an hour or two is if I can get my WIFI working. I tried Vector a couple of weeks ago at the urging of someone on Distrowatch, and thought it was fantastic, ... but never could get on the net with it.
In fact I haven't been able to get wireless to work for me on anything but PCLinuxOS (which has always been very simple to connect with even in the older 093a version) so I guess my question would be this. I realize my Linux knowledge has a lot to do with why I can't get WIFI to work with other distro's, and I know it has a lot to do with why I don't know how to install new software etc. on some of the more basic distro's, but if PCLinuxOS can make things easy for people like me to use and get all my stuff working, why does it have to seem so impossible on everything else?
I look forward to trying Mint when the download finishes, but somehow even as it downloads have reservations as far as if I'll ever get connected to the net with that either.
123 • Caitlyn Martin
The Year Of The Small Distro (by alisou on 2007-08-17 18:02:02 GMT from Canada)
Hi all,
Here, an good article from Caitlyn Martin:
http://www.oreillynet.com/linux/blog/2007/08/the_year_of_the_small_distro.html
124 • RE: 123 (by Landor on 2007-08-17 20:58:11 GMT from Canada)
I read her article and found it biased towards Slackware and it's forks heavily. I was also shocked that for the amount of distributions and smaller ones she talks about or has tried, including Puppy, she never tried PClinux?
Her one comment explained something to me, in great detail:
"@devnet: I didn't mention PCLOS because I haven't tried it and Todd Robinson didn't mention it. There is no way I can try every distro out there, even fashionable ones. "
Was it Todd Robinson outlining what her article and testing was to be about?
She also mentioned very specific criteria regarding what distros she picked. Although I may have missed it, never once did I see her mention what it was. Could it have been a simple thing: Slackware based?
Finally, she talked about 1 and 2 man delevopment teams, which to me seemed in a praising manner to a degree. Then she made the ludicrous comment of:
"The last thing we need is more poorly done distros out of somebody's garage."
I can atest to the fact that the majority of grassroots software "that was not created by a big coporation first, and even what some of the big corporations are based on" were started as "poorly done software out of somebody's garage"
I think that any one person working solely on "any" software project should be applauded for their effort to see it through.
I personally found all of her article biased and extremely insulting, especially the latter. Now I remember why I stopped going to O'Reilly and reading there.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
125 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-08-18 00:22:33 GMT from Canada)
Re #123/124
Caltlyn is very Biased ~ in her case ESP towards Vector linux (Slackware variant)
Many users have pet ideas - in her case, she decries those NOT liked, claims no time to "roll her own"
Yet finds ample time for blogging, then in next breath, paints other eforts as a waste of time
There are excellent How-to (templates) offfered by several distributions now, Knoppix the best known
& Yes - it is soon noted she can often be very irritating with her boastful claims of expertise - since she's in an offshoot of the I.T. profession
To her - few others are qualifed to assess
Those excesses have a name
126 • Test drive Linux Mint, Sidux 2007-03, etc. (by IMQ on 2007-08-18 02:06:55 GMT from United States)
Linux Mint 3.0 KDE:
Has anyone have problem with Mint 3.0 KDE installer?
It failed in install on 3 machines, all at the same step: partitioning. I burned 2 copies at 4x.
I have successfully installed Mint 3.0 XFCE on 1 machine. Haven't tried the 3.0 GNOME yet.
Just curious if anyone else experience the same problem.
ArkLinux 2007.1
I also test-drove the copy of ArkLinux 2007.1 (as pointed out somewhere earlier) on one machine. The installation process is practically unchanged since many years ago. At least it installed. I did a quick look around and tried to do apt-get upgrade but the server appear to be busy.
Kynaptic still crashed when I tried it. Not sure why.
I also download and tested the live cd. It seemed to run five.
Sidux 2007-03
I was surprised with the new Sidux background and liked it alot. Got it installed on test machine. Even managed to install the latest official nVidia driver.
OK. Back to more testing...
127 • RE: 126 --Oops! Typo (by IMQ on 2007-08-18 02:09:39 GMT from United States)
Should read: I also download and tested the live cd. It seemed to run fine.
128 • Re: 126 • Test drive Linux Mint... (by awong on 2007-08-18 05:43:45 GMT from Canada)
I have also tested a number of the popular Linux distros. After my tests, I have decided to dual boot Linux Mint 3.0 Gnome (with Windoze XP) on two different systems and am very happy with the functioning of both systems.
The Mint KDE 3.0 version has a bug in the installer but there is a workaround that you can use (see the Linux Mint website for more info). It's a Ubuntu bug but it should have been caught before the final release.
The only system that I couldn't get any Mint 3.0 version to automatically boot up with using the livecd (without using a workaround) is the Dell Inspiron 1720 notebook (it does boot up cleanly using the PCLOS 2007 livecd). Neither Mint nor PCLOS could detect the native resolution of the notebook, most likely because it is rather new.
129 • RE: 128 (by IMQ on 2007-08-18 06:06:51 GMT from United States)
You said neither Mint nor PCLOS could detect the native resolution but can you correct it manually via xorg.conf?
Just curious.
Thanks for the tip on Mint 3.0 KDE bug.
I was going to look up the forum to see if anyone reported same problem but I hadn't got a chance to get around to...
130 • Linspire 6 (by Tk Taurus on 2007-08-18 06:53:34 GMT from Chile)
Dear Sirs : ¿ You haven't comments about Linspire 6. ? Thanks you.
131 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-08-18 07:28:37 GMT from Canada)
I await user reports of the new alternatives to Gentoo's famous Portage (Paludis & Pkgcore_ )
Pkgcore will still use Python & be less of a leap
Sabayon is unknown to me (may test the minimal "staged" install)
Just to see what differences exist to that fork
The majority of Distros successfully use a graphical installer -
Gentoo failed miserably in it's attempts (the LiveCD -versions)
As a liveCD it is fine, albeit large :
As an installer, either text based or GUI - many bugs exist.
The few developers who reply to gripes - say "use the rock-solid stage3 method"
Must admit , seems ironic - the only attempts of a sources-based powerhouse
at any automated GUI utility -is an embarassment ?
But that is what comes of attempts to appease new users
addicted to ease, admittedly less pains, of spoon feeding
Makes one wonder - why then pick Gentoo > it's well known the neeed to use
the CLI to configure all: No wizardy, just very exact documentations
Especially in light - it only takes about 30 mIns to stage3 install
(After that method has been used 2-3 times in example, new hard drive or shuffling partitions)
Either way - install once, then never any such thing as "versions"
(also no more installs if careful)
I DO think the transition to modularised X-org or KDE could have been less painful
Perhaps a symptom of "lack of" foresight & now no guidance from D. Robbins
However, just like the varied opinions here - it is impossible to fill everyones needs
132 • Wubi is an unofficial Ubuntu installer for Windows users (by Robert on 2007-08-18 07:57:20 GMT from United States)
HAs anyone hear tryed out either
instluxNETOpenSuSE10_3
or this
Wubi is an unofficial Ubuntu installer for Windows users that will bring
you into the Linux world with a few clicks. Wubi allows you to install and
uninstall Ubuntu as any other application.
Just a bit of text from its readme file
also their is a debian installer for windows too
The Wubi looks to be the best one made you don't need to change the harddrive setup at all.. YA for linux, know all they need to do is get wine to run all of the pc windows games , that you know you need to play under linux
133 • Hope thats not bad luck for linux that number 13 ... (by wow that last post has 13 inIT at 2007-08-18 08:04:09 GMT from United States)
Hope thats not bad luck for linux that number 13 ...with all the bad stuff happening lately.....
its almost like its a friday the 13 ... ok.. I am mocking the 13 think just a litttle ... watchout for that black cat. and other stuff of that nature linux....
134 • more simple info on Wubi (by Robert on 2007-08-18 09:36:25 GMT from United States)
Wubi is an unofficial Ubuntu installer for Windows users that will bring you into the Linux world with a single click. Wubi allows you to install and uninstall Ubuntu as any other application. If you heard about Linux and Ubuntu, if you wanted to try them but you were afraid, this is for you.
Wubi is Safe
It does not require you to modify the partitions of your PC, or to use a different bootloader.
Wubi is Simple
Just run the installer, no need to burn a CD.
Wubi is Discrete
Wubi keeps most of the files in one folder, and If you do not like, you can simply uninstall it.
Wubi is Free
Wubi (like Ubuntu) is free as in beer and as in freedom. You will get this part later on, the important thing now is that it cost absolutely nothing, it is our gift to you...
135 • Who reads comments, do the makers of distrowatch read them ? (by Rob on 2007-08-18 09:38:43 GMT from United States)
Who reads comments, do the makers of distrowatch read them
I was just wondering this ?
136 • RE: 135 Who reads comments, do the makers of distrowatch read them? (by ladislav on 2007-08-18 09:46:34 GMT from Taiwan)
Yes. Why are you asking?
137 • RE: 131 (by Landor on 2007-08-18 11:00:25 GMT from Canada)
I too found the GUI for Gentoo install totally terrible. I didn't complain though, after two unsuccessful tries I did what comes natural, and what I expected with Gentoo anyway, the CLI. The whole install took me about 25 minutes for the Stage 3. Then it was onto the desktop which as you know is a different story. Thank God I like a lean system :)
I did like the split builds for KDE. I like the fact that you can install specific pieces from KDE without getting all the other programs bound in the monolithic category.
My son is always trying to improve his typing. He doesn't run his build of Gentoo. I think he's running PCLinuxOS right now, that and Vector. He likes Ktouch and you have to get Ktouch in the Edutainment Package? I smiled when I got him to reboot his computer into his Gentoo partition and he installed Ktouch as a single build. Needless to say he's been using Gentoo a bit more.
Speaking of Vector, I like their light stance and speed for a binary. They have a long way to go for fixing quite a few things. Package management is terrible, duplicates all over the place in the list of available packages and when you install a program it will show up marked as installed for the first entry and blank for the second. Not to mention how few programs any slackware system truly has in their repositories.
A few other minor annoyances like mnt directories created with the install that I can't understand why, other than for someone to select that directory as a mount point for some dev. The same in the Media directory. There's a readme in both regarding what these directories are for. I would think that the directories being made beforehand is basically confusing, and redundant. If a person had the ability to mount a dev in the first place I would sure hope to believe they knew how to use mkdir too :)
My son likes Vector though and I do for the speed of it. Quick boot, very responsive all around on the dektop for a binary based distro. He's been asking how we could throw APT and Synaptic into it, so we're both fiddling with that off and on. We'll see if we can throw .deb's at it with 0-few flaws.
If not there's always emerge I told him. There's a few how-to's kicking around for it on Slackware, I'm sure it would work with a fork, maybe a bit of tweaking.
Keep your stick on the ice...
Landor
138 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-08-18 13:44:54 GMT from Canada)
We appear to be nearly in synch Re Gentoo
My first go-around was for curiosity & a 2nd Gentoo on same box
The first generation of the LiveCD installer had been balley-hooedd, so tried it
A PITA, but did eventualy succeed.
(Some binaries on CD did NOT copy
Then when a replacement of genkernel (I boot from floppy > so too big plus extraneous drivers)
was compiled, noted oddities RE the modules
A bit of diggin- & decided -it wasn't needed so why waste more time ?
Second time, was as a test for (maybe another persons) boxen - but 1st on mine mine as test-bed
The old flaws were now reported all over the forum - & the new version installer touted
WRONG - if anything it was worse - at least the first one did install !
The text method never saved a CFG - never even started an install
The GUI method wiped a (always PRE partitioned & formatted setup)
Since I boot from floppy that was not a disaster, BUT there is dedicated data partitions
It re-affirmed - Never trust anything automated - unless every byte is known/tested beforehand !
If that much trouble on totallly compatible hardware and very comfortable with System,
imagine what a new to Gentoo or any distro might feel ?
As for Vector - we diverge on the sizing of default Apps installed
I also cannot understand the "bloat" mentioned RE SuSe or Slackware
Those exmples allow a bare-bones, up to nearly everything approach
SuSE is HUGE - their concept - many things are patched to fit into the SuSe way.
So the multiple CDs/one DVD contain almost anything ever wanted
Few downloads are needed
Slackware has own good sized repositories, as well as many other compatible resources
For small daily things, Web/mail/letters - any small liveCD meets most needs and is portable
For a main box - that can vary so much there is no "average user"
Average notions yes - and noted where - on a site mostly dedicated to home users
that "test" for so short a time nothing is really known of system esoterics.
Run a system hard & do own development or research at leat 6 months, then speak up
Caitlyn - are you monitoring ?
If truly a security PRO - What are you doing using a non-hardended desktop distro for
Anyone else wonder if she uses rootkit sniffers/honeypots or SEL !
"Credentials" _ As a programmer -
By definition, may be someone who sets up their TV remote/microwave/oven
A "coder" may dabble with E.G. C/c++/Perl etc, yet know little of kernel queuing or user sysalls
API - ABI - DMA intercepts
Opps now I'm ranting - must be rememberances of some distros odd install scripts
As Landor mentioned about automated install directories * or often propreitary GPU & many driver mis-handlings
That begs a question, don't those variants ever heed LSB/FSH, How many shapes does a (workable) wheel have
Sorry, & please all, don't be alarmed
Bad memories don't mix well with running out of smokes
139 • dbrion (by RE 134 Thanks on 2007-08-18 14:41:28 GMT from France)
Thanks for copying and pasting the content of the site you were linking to
Thanks for ungrounded propaganda for a beta version (you "forgot" to mention)
T5hanks for writing this stuff is free
BTW Where are the sources?
Hourrah, cornes au cul, vive le Père Ubu (A Jarry, La Chanson du Décervelage, ca.1895)
140 • Best boot manager for multi-distro HD ?? (by Dr. David Johnson at 2007-08-18 16:37:06 GMT from United States)
Hi, I've used drive bays to boot different OSs for testing.
But do people use a "universal" or good boot manager for
this kind of thing?
Yes I know there are various options, but I'd like to know
which are reliable, and support booting just about any OS
from easy menu... and which can be used without getting
overwritten or otherwise "hosed" by installing yet another
OS on your hard drive.
Dr. David
141 • Re: 129 • RE: 128 (by IMQ on 2007-08-18 06:06:51 GMT from United States) (by awong on 2007-08-18 17:26:36 GMT from Canada)
I haven't installed Linux on the notebook (yet) so I haven't played manually with the xorg.conf file. My Dell Inspiron has a MediaDirect partition that can mess up installations if I want to keep it using dual/multi-booting, so if I attempt an install I need to do some more research.
142 • Question about the new Mepis (by Caraibes on 2007-08-18 21:29:27 GMT from Dominican Republic)
The statement from Warren says :
"Debian Etch users are welcome to get their updated applications from the MEPIS pools."
-Does that mean that my various Debian Etch PC's could add the Mepis repo to the sources.list, and apt-get stuff from there ?
-Would that be a good/wise idea ?
143 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-08-19 00:52:21 GMT from Canada)
RE #140
Ther are many dedicated boot Mgrs - some have options to boot media not supported by older BIOS (Cd, USB etc)
Bootloaders will be overwrite existing MBR tables
They also fail to locate the bootable O/Sys if drives ir partitions are relocated
Of the Linux "standard" variety , Grubo or Lilo - Grub is more flexible
if edited, can use without re-running it's' install mehod as does Lilo.
Best bet - please use Google - for any generic Linux help
DWW is for review comments of current choices ( & opinions,
new user or dejaded grumps like me)
Happy hunting, good people
144 • Nice Job (by Dan Putman on 2007-08-19 13:07:23 GMT from United States)
Hi Jim,
Your voice came across very well. It was fourteen and a half munutes. Most of it was Greek to me but the audio quality was excellent and the topics were presented smoothly.
Dad
145 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-08-19 15:35:23 GMT from France)
"clicking over typing is the future at least for the simple Linux user, after all, not everyone is a dev or similar...Should Linux be only for geeks?"
What a manichean distinction ! I suppose this text was elaboratyed by pointing and clicking....
There are other promising users interfaces :
* accelerometer (and gyroscopes, I hope) : they are used in modern Playstations, meseems, and getting mass producted..... => no future?
* speech recognition/synthesis (useful for blinds) and it would be pleasant to dictate a text (
146 • 145 was the beginning of ans 88 (by dbrion on 2007-08-19 15:41:18 GMT from France)
dictate a text (and twice fastest) => no future? no use
" the simple Linux user, " : is he called Joe? (or in an exceptional case, Jane).... Does he need THE Out of the Holy Box experience (you know, a linux which fids the power switch : as 10% of the pple I know cannot find the power switch of a PC -it is hidden fgor obvious reasons-, a free robot would be very useful for that simple task).
What other marketing invented "notions" (to remain very kind) does The Simple Linux User need?
147 • 72 • What I'm testing now: sidux, etc. (by Fractalguy) (by Fractalguy on 2007-08-19 17:47:21 GMT from United States)
The latest for me is arklinux-live-2007-1. Well - another coaster, I'm afraid. Just like Fedora live CDs I mentioned in #72. Face it, Kpackage is useless if it doesn't point to a repository with some new applications. Kpackage shows only applications already installed. /me shrugs
These KDE live cds seem to only have the basic KDE stuff you can get from KDE.org. Just try to get your email from yahoo or gmail using Konq - not possible as given. And I see no way to add Firefox using Kpackage. I'm not going to install, but I would surely hope there is a better application adder than in the live cd.
I'm about to burn Mutagenix 2.6.18.6-2 suspecting no better than the above. There is just one problem, all links to md5sums show sums for mutagenix_kde-2.6.18.6-i486-1.iso. Therefore I can't pre-check for errors. :( I'll try burning it anyway, the three coaster set will go nicely on the coffee table.
I still say, if you want a very nice up to date KDE, take a look at sidux-2007-03.1-gaia.
148 • Re: 147 • What I'm testing now... (by Ariszló on 2007-08-19 22:47:25 GMT from Hungary)
Fractalguy wrote: The latest for me is arklinux-live-2007-1. Well - another coaster, I'm afraid. [...] Face it, Kpackage is useless if it doesn't point to a repository with some new applications.
Ark uses Kynaptic, not KPackage to upgrade and install packages (including Firefox) from the repository:
http://www.arklinux.org/~poprocks/docs/c4-kynaptic.html
149 • ArkLinux and Kynaptic (by IMQ on 2007-08-20 01:23:42 GMT from United States)
I played with ArkLinux a little more yesterday and noticed a couple things unchanged since the last time I tested it (maybe a year or so ago):
1. I can't not close the root konsole when clickin on the [x] on the top right corner
2. Kynaptic crashed when I clicked on the group category on the left panel.
I haven't played around long enough to see what others little quirks it has.
Overall, I don't see much change from few years back. Maybe it got better underneath the surface, but surface is where most of point-and-click users will interact with ArkLinux desktop. The repeated crashing of Kynaptic did not leave the impression that it is stable enough for point-and-click users.
By the way, there is no way to log back in once the user logs out. The only choice is reboot. Unless the password is set for arklinux user. ArkLinux is currently a single user mode with both root and arklinux accounts disabled. The accounts can be enabled by setting the password for arklinux and root.
150 • 148 • Re: 147 • What I'm testing now (by Fractalguy on 2007-08-20 02:51:18 GMT from United States)
Sorry for the Kynaptic goof. I found the distro so unusable that I could not make my live notes on the net, so I forgot the exact name of the application. Anyway, it flunked. I did not see Firefox listed. And all apps listed were already marked green, meaning already installed. Anyway, I think I'll take another look at arklinux-live-2007-1 before turning in. ((Can hardly wait for the new DWW.))
And not a surprise to me, Mutagenix would not even boot - kernel panics. Since there is no md5sum, I can't tell if it is my fault or not. Look guys, put out a notice of a new release and many of us distro hos (new title I read of yesterday) are very ready to take a look. But help us with that little md5sum file, please! Many times I stay exploring in the distro for several days - usually until a fatal crash occurs. I like live cds, they have that feeling of invulnarability for the OS since it is read only. And when they crash, well it is all part of the thrill. It serves to remind one of the good old days of Windows. :) And unlike my hard disks, it won't become totally trashed on upgrade. A fresh clean start is only a reboot away.
Right now I'm running off my 3 1/2 year old PCLOS install on a ten year old 6GB HD. And it is still usable. Not quite as fast as the latest, but then - here I am. Feels like home. :)
151 • ArkLinux and Kynaptic (by Fractalguy on 2007-08-20 03:47:31 GMT from United States)
Well, I'm back from taking another look at ArkLinux: Here are my quick notes. I posted a screen shot of Kynaptic here...
http://www.geocities.com/e_8013/Kynaptic.png
There were issues right from the get-go like a kded crash - signal 11, what ever that is. Lots of complaints about it in general:
http://www.google.com/search?query=kded&hl=en
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=397235
The Internet was not connected which explains why Kynaptic was broken. I'm on a cable modem and just about every distro has either auto-connect or simple walk through to get connected.
My screen size was 1024x768 even though I put in the standard cheat code for 1280x1024. And when I went for reboot, it just froze. I think I'll check out installing sidux-gaia. :)
152 • DBRION (by Dubigrasu on 2007-08-20 06:24:16 GMT from Romania)
What's the matter with you? You know, there's no need to be rude to prove a point.Just because you disagree with me or others is not necessary to resort to insults.I've seen this in many of your posts.And every time you disagree with someone (and that seems to be a rule for you), you respond with cascades of often pointless and sometimes delirious unrelated arguments which demonstrates nothing.Ok...ok now I am rude but..."accelerometer (and gyroscopes, I hope)"? Are you for real? Those guys from KDE and Gnome teams are soooo lame man! Why don't you teach them what to do? I am not saying that those things aren't real, but what's the connection with what I said? I was simply saying that for a simple Linux user (and please,please don't translate this again in to a simple minded user) a point and click interface is more useful at least for the beginning,( a former windows user for example). I love the power which the command line gives to you, but for simple tasks I use (like everybody) the mouse.So, what in the world this has to do with accelerometers and gyroscopes man ?!
You have strong opinions? Fine! But you don't have to resort to strong language or to suggest that we are simple minded or "unconvincing"! Lose the arrogance man!
And... "manichean"??? Give me a break!
P.S. I am now preparing for your devastating reply!
153 • Rudenes, "procés d'intention" and posts about linux future (by dbrion on 2007-08-20 06:49:05 GMT from France)
Is it being rude/arrogant (etc, etc) that saying that innovative users interfaces
* exist (Playstation have obviously accelerometers, this is not an insult for kde, xfce, etc, etc, etc) or
* should exist
( when one posts about future, is it a pointless answer?)
and might be more useful than the dichotomy CLI/ GUI ?
Or the nuances you added to make your 1rst post less bad?
Restricting to a pointless dichotomy and whining , when someone answers some other things exist (or _should_ exist), is a proof of open mindedness... (and gives hope in GNU linux future)
If I had wanted to be rude, I should have asked "are you an astrolog, man, to post about GNUlinux bright future?"
154 • I give up dbrion (by Dubigrasu on 2007-08-20 07:23:06 GMT from Romania)
Well, you did not disappoint me.I did not added nuances, I was merely expanded the idea, maybe you did not understand for the first time, and again will you give me a break with your accelerometers and gyroscopes? It amazes me how you manage to twist and distort other people posts.You are not insulting KDE etc...you insulting us.But is useless to argue with you There are to many things that you understand wrong in your special way and don't know which to begin with. And this is not the place to start such a debate.I am already sorry for starting this and apologize to everybody. But if you wanna play the game dbrion...you have my email, I will not respond here.
And yes, you are arrogant...
155 • "break with your accelerometers and gyroscopes" (by dbrion on 2007-08-20 07:43:58 GMT from France)
It is not an insult knowing playstations have cheap accelerometers and gyroscopes have prices getting lower.... which might lead to useful/interesting 3D applications...
Turning this into derision gives a revelative hint about innovation abilities in th GNUlinux world....
". how you manage to twist and distort other people posts" ? well, well.....
"
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| • Issue 1038 (2023-09-25): Mageia 9, trouble-shooting launchers, running desktop Linux in the cloud, New documentation for Nix, Linux phasing out ReiserFS, GNU celebrates 40 years |
| • Issue 1037 (2023-09-18): Bodhi Linux 7.0.0, finding specific distros and unified package managemnt, Zevenet replaced by two new forks, openSUSE introduces Slowroll branch, Fedora considering dropping Plasma X11 session |
| • Issue 1036 (2023-09-11): SDesk 2023.08.12, hiding command line passwords, openSUSE shares contributor survery results, Ubuntu plans seamless disk encryption, GNOME 45 to break extension compatibility |
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| • Issue 995 (2022-11-21): Fedora 37, swap files vs swap partitions, Unity running on Arch, UBports seeks testers, Murena adds support for more devices |
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| • Issue 993 (2022-11-07): Static Linux, working with just a kernel, Mint streamlines Flatpak management, updates coming to elementary OS |
| • Issue 992 (2022-10-31): Lubuntu 22.10, setting permissions on home directories, Linux may drop i486, Fedora delays next version for OpenSSL bug |
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| • Issue 990 (2022-10-17): ravynOS 0.4.0, Lion Linux 3.0, accessing low numbered network ports, Pop!_OS makes progress on COSMIC, Murena launches new phone |
| • Issue 989 (2022-10-10): Ubuntu Unity, kernel bug causes issues with Intel cards, Canonical offers free Ubuntu Pro subscriptions, customizing the command line prompt |
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| • Issue 987 (2022-09-26): openSUSE's MicroOS, converting people to using Linux, pfSense updates base system and PHP, Python 2 dropped from Arch |
| • Issue 986 (2022-09-19): Porteus 5.0, remotely wiping a hard drive, a new software centre for Ubuntu, Proxmox offers offline updates |
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GNU/Linux Kinneret
GNU/Linux Kinneret was an operating system and a variety of applications supplied in a single package that was easy to operate and use (CD). The system does not mandate installation and/or complicated setup, and includes automatic hardware recognition, a wizard that facilitates easy connection to the Internet, as well as a rich and high-quality range of applications with maximum Hebrew support (with more languages to be supported later on).
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