DistroWatch Weekly |
DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 211, 16 July 2007 |
Welcome to this year's 29th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! As you might know Ladislav is taking a much needed vacation and we hope he is having a wonderful and relaxing time. I'm Susan Linton and some of you may remember me from when I filled in for Ladislav last summer. Perhaps some others might know me from my website or articles published here and there. Although I can't adequately fill Ladislav's shoes, I will be writing this and next week's DistroWatch Weekly. So here we go. Happy reading!
Content:
Join us at irc.freenode.net #distrowatch
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Featured Story |
Mini-Reviews: CentOS 5.0 LiveCD, Berry 0.82, and AntiX "Spartacus"
The CentOS team released a liveCD based on version 5.0 on July 10. It's a 679MB download and was created so that a prospective user can test it on their hardware. It comes with enough applications that it could be used as a portable workstation as well.
After descending into the labrynth they call a boot menu, I gave up and just hit enter at the boot screen. The boot process locked up when trying to start the graphics on my Hewlett-Packard dv6105 laptop with NVIDIA Go 6150 graphics. I had a bit better luck on my desktop with an NVIDIA 6800 as the system didn't fully lock up. I was able to ctrl+alt+F2 and edit the xorg.conf file to start X. Afterwards, CentOS looked fairly attractive with a professional quality background and tidy desktop and menus.
The CentOS 5.0 liveCD ships with GNOME 2.16 and IceWM. In the menus one finds ample applications for basic tasks. For example for internet and communications we have Firefox and Thunderbird 1.5.0.10, gFTP, Gaim, Ekiga, and XChat. For graphics they have included gThumb, Xsane, and The GIMP. Server applications include php 5.16, MySQL 5.0, and Apache 2.2. Office tasks can be handled by OpenOffice.org 2.0 and Scribus. Multimedia apps are CDPlayer, K3b, Totem, and Sound Juicer. Some system tools include Baobab, Network Tools, NmapFE, QTParted, and Traceroute. Under the hood we have Linux 2.6.18-8, Xorg 7.1.1, and no GCC.
CentOS also ships with AIGLX and Compiz for those with graphics chips that are supported. NVIDIA owners won't be able to use it as neither the kernel source nor headers are included, and most of the booted system is read-only, precluding any hope of installing the NVIDIA 3D graphic drivers.
Hardware detection hit a sour note with me with its poor graphics detection and configuration. I found their boot menu very confusing even for an old Linux user like myself. There's no install option (that I could find) and given my luck with Anaconda, the installer is the main thing I'd like to test. Otherwise, it was fast performing and stable while providing a decent starter application stack to test. Some of the applications are quite long in the tooth, but the server apps are newer versions. All in all, I wasn't really impressed. For the Red Hat, Fedora, or CentOS fan, it might make a nice portable system. As far as newcomers, this liveCD will not likely result in new CentOS users.
CentOS 5.0 LiveCD Desktop (full image size: 173kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
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Berry Linux is an installable liveCD based on Fedora. I've looked at Berry Linux several times in the past and always liked it. Berry .82 is no exception. Since I hadn't tested it in a while I couldn't resist looking at the latest released on July 10. Although I still like it, it doesn't seem to be evolving very much. This could be an advantage to true fans, but I believe they have gotten their money's worth out of that kitty cat wallpaper.
The fruity start sequence is still there as well. There are lots of boot options such as English, Rasp, or Vaio. Most of my hardware was detected properly and working including sound, but excluding my winnic. They include the NVIDIA 3D graphics drivers, but for some reason, I was still logged into a 1024x768 desktop. Thinking I could easily adjust that in the xorg.conf file and restart X backfired on me. Silly me clicked on "Logout" in the menu which proceeded to shut the computer completely down. Deeper in the menu is the "Restart or Change Desktop" option that I should have used. So, upon restart I used the cheatcode screen=1280x800 and was given just that. Then I was able to use Ndiswrapper, wpa_supplicant, and dhclient to bring up my internet connection. Inserting removable media results in an error, but are mountable at the commandline.
Berry comes with a limited control panel containing only options for changing the computer name and some simple networking details such as ip or nameserver. The main desktop is KDE 3.5.7, although not all the usual KDE applications are included. In the menus we find Firefox and Thunderbird 1.5.0.11, Gaim, Sylpheed, OpenOffice.org 2.2.1, Planmaker, and Textmaker. In Graphics we find DigiKam, Inkscape, KPDF, Showfoto, and The GIMP. There are a few games such as Miss Driller, Pacman on SNES, and Winemine. Multimedia applications include Audacious, K3b, Kaffine, MPlayer, TVTime, and Xine. I was able to play video files at will. The browser comes with most expected plugins such as flash and multimedia support. Also included in Berry is Wine and Beryl. I wasn't able to figure out how to actually use Beryl without Googling to remind myself of the files I'd need to manually edit, but surely the option was there... somewhere. Berry also ships with the Rasp desktop environment, which looks like a Windows 98 flashback. Under the hood we find Linux 2.6.21.6, Xorg 7.2, and GCC 4.1.2.
All in all, Berry is very much as I remembered. It's stable and has fairly good performance. I did experience a bit of menu hesitation when using the liveCD, but nothing more serious. Hardware detection was good enough and the software selection was adequate. Overall, it remains a solid and respectable Linux distribution choice.
Berry 0.82 LiveCD Desktop (full image size: 224kB, screen resolution: 1280x800 pixels)
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AntiX is an installable liveCD based on SimplyMepis geared toward older computers of lesser resources. The developers released "Spartacus" this past week, just little over month since their last. They have done a lot of work in this month. Although I was quite taken with AntiX, I expressed a few issues I had with "antics" and the developers have addressed most them. However, those issues aside, this release finds AntiX improved on many levels.
The most noticeable improvement is in the appearance of AntiX. With an updated background, hipper theme, and more complete menu, AntiX seems less like a distro for older computers than a major contender. The default background is a bit lighter in color than the previous making the desktop easier to use, and it has a much nicer bubble-like logo. In fact, AntiX ships with several background choices. The theme is updated to feature a much nicer 3D windec. The menu is more complete with most applications available listed, but its appearance is much more attractive as well. It has 3D highlighting of items and features translucency and rounded corners. Even the terminal emulators now feature pseudo-transparency to blend with the background of desktop. AntiX is looking great.
Being an off-spring of SimplyMepis, AntiX has superior hardware detection for the basic things. My sound worked at login, as did my touchpad and add-on usb mouse. My graphics were detected properly and I was taken to my desired 1280x800 resolution. But even more appreciated was the fact that my internet connection worked out of the box. This is inherited from SimplyMepis as well and to date they are the only two distros to enable my HP dv6105's winnic out-of-the-box. No fussing around at the commandline for that. However, cpu scaling is still not automagic. I still had to load the modules and set the profile myself. In addition, I'm still having to monitor battery life through the /proc file. Suspend/resume work from the commandline as well. None are a big deal. When installed I can set up the cpufreq to be enabled at boot and add battery monitoring to Conky. The important things are that support is available in the kernel and the tools are included.
But even if some application or utility wasn't included, it would probably be available through Synaptic. SimplyMepis repositories are already set up for the user. Also included are some of the Mepis tools such as the harddrive installer and user, X, and net configuration wizards. In that same area one finds lots of networking and system tools.
AntiX comes with lots of great software. The primary desktop is Fluxbox and it ships with applications to accommodate about any machine. From Firefox, through Dillo, to Links there are about five browsers available. It includes Sylpheed for email, Abiword for word processing, Gnumeric for spreadsheets, and The GIMP for image manipulation. Multimedia can be enjoyed through XMMS, Audacity, and Xine. There are CD/DVD creation tools too. There is Irssi, XChat, Gaim, Pan, gtk-gnutella, and Mutt. It even comes with a few games and much more. The undercarriage has remained the same with Linux-2.6.15-27, Xorg 7.1.1, and GCC 4.0.3.
AntiX now has their very own webpage for announcements and important information, including user and password. Opening any of the browsers takes one to their forum. Helpful Tips appear on the desktop at login.
I just really like this mini-Mepis. It looks great and works really well. It comes with a well-rounded suite of applications and it did exceptionally well on my hardware. Two thumbs and two big toes up!
AntiX 6.5 "Spartacus" LiveCD (full image size: 208kB, screen resolution: 1280x800 pixels)
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Miscellaneous News |
Mandriva 2008 details, Gobuntu announced, Sabayon tidbits, Debian Menu, Fedora 8 Features, and CUPS
The Mandriva Wiki has been updated with the latest information on the upcoming 2008 release. Not only will Mandriva 2008 ship with the latest GNOME in the 2.20 development tree and KDE 3.5.7, but also a preview of KDE 4. They are planning on using Linux 2.6.22 for their kernel-base, Xorg 7.3 with RandR 1.2, and GCC 4.2.0. Other tidbits include OpenOffice.org 2.20, Compiz Fusion, IcedTea, and complete XDG menu migration. We can expect beta releases to start appearing by the end of the month with final being planned for September 27, 2007.
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Mark Shuttleworth announced a new project on his blog that will produce an all open sourced version of Ubuntu in the ilk of gNewsense. The first priority will be drivers and hardware support, but he is hoping to rally developers for all aspects of distribution production. Of course the announcement soon brought the freedom vs. functionality argument that could have been the precursor to Mr. Shuttleworth's next challenge. After the Gobuntu news, he then announced a project to create a high-end laptop that will run free software perfectly including suspend and hibernate. Softpedia ran a nice story on how to install Gobuntu.
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There have been quite a few exciting developments in the Sabayon camp this past week. First is the announcement that Sabayon Linux 3.4 should be released within the week now featuring Linux Kernel 2.6.22. I'm sure I'm not the only one looking forward to that. In other news, they are now including a Sabayon Linux Core Install Method. This will allow users to install a very minimalistic system. As they put it, "Just you, our super fast and stable kernel, and a VT." They have also updated their screenshot gallery with lots of 3.4 screenshots. And in related news, Wine-Doors, a package management tool for windows software on Linux systems, has discreetly announced a partnership with Sabayon Linux. No word from Sabayon yet if and when it will appear in the distro, but community reactions are overwhelmingly enthusiastic.
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The Fedora Project has been taking suggestions over the last six weeks for the upcoming Fedora 8. The list is beginning to come together and look exciting. Joining OpenSUSE and Mandriva, Fedora plans to include KDE 4 in its next release, with the goal being not as an aside, but as the only KDE desktop. There are currently some test packages in Rawhide for those brave early testers. Another interesting development is improved laptop support. Their main concentration is on making suspend/resume "just work" out-of-the-box for every laptop possible. Developers are also planning to use Pulseaudio as the default sound server. There are packages available currently for this as well, but there are still issues. Another development in discussion is the idea of using the YUM plugin Presto to download deltarpms by default to decrease package download size. Some other areas of improvement include the Startup process, Network Manager, and the elimination of XFS. See the full Feature List for more details.
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Debian developers have been revamping the Debian menu system lately. Software developers are now trying to update their programs to correspond accordingly. Some of the changes include the removal of Apps > Tools, Games > Sports, and Screen > Root-window. Some of the new sections are Applications > File Management, Applications > Science > Science/Astronomy, Applications > Video, and Games > Tools. Several sections have been renamed or split as well. You can review this debian mailing list post for more specifics.
In other Debian news, the Debian GNU/kFreeBSD porters are pleased to announce that there is now a Debian GNU/kFreeBSD amd64 machine available to the Debian developers. See that announcement for more details. Developer accounts are now being reviewed for "inactive" status. If you are a developer, please see this post for more information.
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OpenSUSE developers recently took a survey to find out how much some proprietary applications are used. As a result, ARCAD will be removed completely and Planmaker, SEPsesam, TextMaker, TeXlive, and Moneyplex will likely be removed. Andreas' response to the survey results sparked lots of discussion on the subject of TeXlive. The (tentative) final deposition was that TeXlive would remain in the DVD9 box set and in the ftp tree, removed from the 1 CD images, and determinant on space in the 5 CD/DVD5 format. On another topic Andreas asked, "What's the point of still creating the 5 CDs / DVD5 if we now have the 1 CD GNOME/KDE images?" Yikes.
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Another development in the Free and Open Source Software world that gave me a moment of pause was the announcement that Apple Inc. had purchased CUPS (Common UNIX Printing System). We are assured that the lead developer, Michael R. Sweet, now in the employ of Apple, will continue to develop, update, and provide code to the community under the existing GPL2/LGPL2 licensing terms. The frequently asked questions page was updated with some further information as well. Perhaps this is the time for a fork.
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Released Last Week |
antiX MEPIS 6.5
Warren Woodford has announced the release of antiX MEPIS 6.5, a light-weight MEPIS derivative designed for older computers: "MEPIS has announced the 'Spartacus' release of antiX, a lightweight derivative of MEPIS. AntiX is built and maintained by MEPIS a community member, as a free version of MEPIS for very old 32-bit PC hardware. AntiX is built using the MEPIS Linux 6.5 core including the MEPIS 2.6.15 kernel and utilities, but mostly it has a different set of default user applications: Fluxbox and IceWM, AbiWord, Gnumeric, Leafpad, Scite, Nano, GIMP, Firefox 2, Sylpheed-claws, Dillo.... AntiX is designed to work on computers with as little as 64 MB RAM and Pentium II or equivalent AMD processors." For more information please read the press release and visit the project's web page.
Berry Linux 0.82
Yuichiro Nakada has announced the release of Berry Linux 0.82, a desktop live CD based on Fedora: "Berry Linux 0.82 released." This is the first Berry release based on the new Fedora 7, with corresponding package updates. The distribution uses kernel 2.6.21.6 with SMP, ndev/udev and bootsplash patches, while glibc has been updated to version 2.6, GCC to version 4.1.2 and Busybox to version 1.5.1. The desktop is powered by X.Org 7.2 with optional Beryl 3D desktop features and KDE 3.5.7. Other notable package upgrade include K3b 1.0.1, Digikam 0.9.1, OpenOffice.org 2.2.1, Flash Player 9.0.31, ATI driver 8.33.6, Samba 3.0.25, WINE 0.9.39, NDISwrapper 1.47 and MadWiFi 0.9.3.1. See the complete Berry changelog for more details.
CentOS 5.0 Live CD
Johnny Hughes has announced the availability of CentOS 5 Live CD for i386 processors: "The CentOS Development team is pleased to announce the availability of the CentOS 5 i386 Live CD. This CD is based on our CentOS 5.0 i386 distribution. It can be used as a Workstation, with the following software: OpenOffice.org 2.0.4, Firefox 1.5.0.10, Thunderbird 1.5.0.10, Gaim 2.0.0, Scribus 1.3.3, XChat 2.6.6, K3b 0.12.17 and GIMP 2.2.13. It can also be used as a rescue CD with the following tools: full set of LVM and RAID command line tools; QTParted; Nmap and NMapFE; graphical traceroute; Samba 3.0.23c with CIFS kernel support to connect to Windows file shares; system log viewer; GUI hardware device manager." For more details please read the full release announcement.
EnGarde Secure Linux 3.0.15
Guardian Digital has announced the release of EnGarde Secure Linux 3.0.15: "Guardian Digital is happy to announce the release of EnGarde Secure Community 3.0.15. This release includes many updated packages and bug fixes, some feature enhancements to Guardian Digital WebTool and the SELinux policy, and a few new features. What's new? Due to popular demand, we've made mod_proxy for Apache available via the 'libapache-mod_proxy' package; we addressed a bug in the Snort graph generation subsystem which would cause high CPU load; three new instructional documents were written by Ryan W. Maple and added to the EnGarde Secure Linux Wiki; several new packages such as Dovecot, MySQL++, pptpd, rkhunter...." Please read the release notes to learn more about the latest version.
Endian Firewall 2.1.2
A bugfix release of the Red Hat-based Endian Firewall is now available, with several minor yet significant new features: "The 2.1.2 is built up from the 2.1.1 version, fixing the SATA support system and allowing for a wizard after installation that asks to set up the passwords (root and administrator). In addition, this new release enables the possibility of restoring a backup directly after installation, and of blocking incoming connections coming through the VPN. Moreover, the Endian Firewall Community now includes a 1:1 NAT (for ALL port-forwarding protocol types) and provides added support for EFW as a XEN domU instance. Kernel, glibc, clamav and havp have all been upgraded, and the proxy authentication can now be bypassed for specific ip/mac addresses." More details in the release notes.
Pardus Linux 2007.2
The Pardus developers from Turkey have announced the availability of Pardus Linux 2007.2: "Pardus 2007.2 Caracal caracal released! It is possible to install Pardus 2007.2 in French, Italian and Catalan besides Turkish, English, Spanish, German, Dutch and Brazilian Portuguese. Pardus 2007.2 now introduces KDE 3.5.7 for better stability, translations and eye candy for Pardus users. Network manager application now comes bundled with PEAP-MSCHAPv2 support. Now Pardus clients can authenticate with wireless devices using this protocol, benefiting from strong encryption possibilities." Read the release announcement and release notes for further details.
Bluewhite64 Linux 12.0
Linux, a complete pure 64-bit GNU/Linux distribution that can be deployed on a single or multi core 64-bit AMD64 Athlon, Opteron, Sempron, Turion and Intel EM64T based servers and desktop computers, now reaches version 12.0: "Bluewhite64 Linux 12.0 includes the Linux 2.6.21.5 kernel with the IA32-emulation enabled, the testing Linux 2.6.22 kernel in the testing/ directory with support for IDE, SATA, SCSI and RAID controllers, Ext2, Ext3, ReiserFS, XFS and IBM's SGI filesystems, SCSI and ATA RAID volume, Software RAID, LVM2 (the Logical Volume Manager), KVM (Kernel-based Virtual Machine) and encrypted file systems." Find more on the news page.
BeleniX 0.6.1
A bugfix release of the OpenSolaris Live CD BeleniX is available: "This is primarily a bugfix release fixing some of the bigger bugs in 0.6 though there remains some more to fix in 0.6.2. Here is a list of the changes that have gone in: Upgraded to OpenSolaris Build 67; Upgraded GIMP to 2.2.16; New revamped ddcxinfo utility that can uses Xorg to probe the Monitor and extract EDID information from the logfile. So ddcxinfo now works again; A solution to the Math library SSE2 issue that haunted earlier BeleniX releases has been put in place..." Read the rest of the release announcement for more information.
Helix 1.9
Helix is a KNOPPIX-based live CD with a large collection of tools dedicated to incident response and forensics. Drew Fahey has announced the availability of version 1.9: "Version 1.9 has been officially released. This is not a large update due to work going on for version 2.0 but many of the tools have been updated. NTFS-3g has been update to 1.710, Sleuthkit 2.09, Autopsy 2.08, Scalpel 1.60 to carve data, EnCase Linen 6.01, AFFlib 2.3.0 and libewf-20070512 for image acquisition. The Kernel was also updated to 2.6.18.7. In addition several tools on the Live Windows side have been updated/added: WFT 3.01 and Nigilant32." Read the announcement and changelog for more information.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
Summary of expected upcoming releases
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DistroWatch.com News |
DistroWatch database summary
And this concludes the latest issue of DistroWatch Weekly. Please remember that the opinions expressed in this week's DistroWatch Weekly are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of DistroWatch.com or its owner, Ladislav Bodnar. The next installment will be published on Monday, 23 July 2007. Until then,
Susan Linton
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Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • AntiX (by proog on 2007-07-16 10:03:28 GMT from Denmark)
That AntiX sure sounds pretty nice. I'm having a hard time finding proper distros that work on my old laptop - maybe this could be the right one to replace the current Damn Small install I have on it.
2 • FreeNAS (by Joaquim Gil on 2007-07-16 10:28:05 GMT from Portugal)
FreeNAS. What a nice distro! I'm using it for quite some time now and I'm very happy with it.
Running smooth with two 330GB IDE HDDs on a PII @ 333MHz with ONLY 64Mb of RAM for 6 non-stop months! No glitches, no problems.
Let's hope that v0.685b will get final real soon!
3 • Now look here, Susan (by Singed on 2007-07-16 10:32:11 GMT from United Kingdom)
I'd be the last to denigrate your prose, nor behave in any sexist way, but you've got to understand that the readership here is 99% male. So, if you plan any more stand-ins for Ladislav, we expect some beachware pics!! As for AntiX, I found it more disappointing than the usual MEPIS breeze over set up, particularly network settings. Although everything works fairly well, I expected the drab desktop artwork to have been replaced now that there is a S African connection.
4 • SLAX v6.0.0 RC4 ISO (by Peter on 2007-07-16 11:17:56 GMT from Australia)
Couldn't help myself but give it a test run. Works great on my acer 1644wlmi notebook. Perfect setup and detection of dispaly graphics using the new intel driver for the 910/915 Intel graphics chipset.
It is just a live cd and also loads perfectly into memory, thus freeing up cd/dvd for burning etc (great rescue tool).
The Laptop power module does not load and thus no battery/cpu frequency power control. If this feature (plus net applet or knetworkmanager) could be enabled, it would be a great little distro.
Nice work!
If you are a Bigpond ADSL/CABLE subscriber, you can get it here: http://files.bigpond.com/library/index.php?go=details&id=29594
5 • Beach Wear (by Jimbo on 2007-07-16 11:24:42 GMT from United Kingdom)
Lol, Beachwear FTW
6 • Beachware pics (by Bryan on 2007-07-16 11:25:52 GMT from United States)
#3 - Did you mean that you wanted pictures of Ladislav on the beach?
7 • antix (by riklaunim on 2007-07-16 11:46:45 GMT from Poland)
AntiX iso is few megs bigger than Zenwalk. For me Antix is a compleate disaster - It doesn't look nice, it's not user friendly and usable (a lot of simple Xsomething apps) For example puppy is designed for very old hardware and it has much more applications and config tools, helpers than antix. Zenwalk is system that can be used daily as a desktop for normal user and it looks like a modern desktop. And I didn't saw all those GTK+ apps in menus.
8 • Linspire? (by Bry on 2007-07-16 12:21:10 GMT from China)
I don't know if it's been reported yet but I'm downloading Linspire 6.0 right now (I also don't know if it's a members-only download or a free one). CNR isn't live yet, though, so it probably won't be the complete Linspire experience.
Oh, and before anyone offers a caustic retort (and that's kinda redundant, I know) , I myself was disappointed with their "covenant" with everybody-here-knows-who. However, I still want to see what's up with their latest offering.
9 • Gobuntu? (by Matti on 2007-07-16 12:53:49 GMT from Finland)
We already have Debian, so what do we need Gobuntu for? Here's a cartoon about Shuttleworth's Gobuntu plans -- it's satirical but there might be something in it: http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/taking-freedom-further
BTW, I just realized it's been almost three months since the Ubuntu Feisty release and it seems that Debian Lenny (the development version for the next stable Debian release) has pretty much caught up with Feisty and even surpassed it in several areas. OpenOffice is still newer in Feisty but applications like Amarok, Cups, K3b, Kde, Koffice, Pidgin, Samba, Xfce, Xine and Xorg are newer versions in Lenny. :-D
10 • CUPS contradiction (by h3rman on 2007-07-16 12:57:56 GMT from Europe)
"... Apple Inc. had purchased CUPS (Common UNIX Printing System). We are assured that the lead developer, Michael R. Sweet, now in the employ of Apple, will continue to develop, update, and provide code to the community under the existing GPL2/LGPL2 licensing terms. The frequently asked questions page was updated with some further information as well. Perhaps this is the time for a fork."
Isn't this a contradiction? If you're assured he will continue to license new code under GPL, what need, time, or opportunity is there for a fork? (And what, other than oblivion, will relicensing provide him? Xfree86 and Open Sound System are not exactly success stories! :) )
11 • Beachware (by parkash on 2007-07-16 12:58:35 GMT from Germany)
@6 : I certainly hope not :p @3 : What a funny comment :)
12 • #10 (by srlinuxx on 2007-07-16 13:23:01 GMT from United States)
Yeah, but I guess I was implying that he says that /now/.
13 • Follow-up on Pardus (by Caraibes on 2007-07-16 13:41:50 GMT from Dominican Republic)
After spending the weekend with Pardus, I can say it's a good and promising distro, but it can absolutely not measure against Fedora.
My main issue with Pardus is the lack of internationalization for OOo & Firefox... I always set a Spanish user & a French user in my systems. As far as the KDE apps are concerned, that wasn't a problem, but FF & OOo remained in the original install language.
I will still closely monitor the development of Pardus.
14 • Beachware.cpp (by terlmann on 2007-07-16 13:45:36 GMT from United States)
int bool married () int char age () int bool beachware (int married , int age) [ beachware = no if married = yes break ; //NO if married = no & age > 25 break ; //UGH else beachware = yes ; ]
Not my work ;-) I wanna hear more about Pardus 2007.2 !!
15 • CentOS server CD (by Jason on 2007-07-16 13:46:14 GMT from United States)
I'm not sure what I'm going to use a CentOS Live CD for in an enterprise environment, but what I really could use is a CentOS 5 server CD.
16 • Sabayon Linux (by wolfden on 2007-07-16 13:46:26 GMT from United States)
Just dropping a quick note that Sabayon Linux 3.4 is really slick and the new installer makes it even better yet. Public release is coming up and you don't want to miss out on this one.
Also Sabayon Linux has released their Business Edition and more details can be found at http://www.sabayonlinux.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8554 take a look at this wonderful addition to Sabayon Linux.
17 • Pardus Linux (by terlmann on 2007-07-16 13:48:36 GMT from United States)
RE : 13 Pardus is fast. wayy fast. And its only getting better.
18 • Sabayon Software Installation (by Anonymous on 2007-07-16 14:25:06 GMT from United States)
I tried Sabayon. It looks good and all that, but there are two problems.
(i) Booting is sooooo slow. (ii) It has Gentoo-style software installation. There are no alternatives? Despite all the press, software installation is complicated, along the lines of Linux in 1996. If there is no better way to install software, I don't see Sabayon going anywhere.
19 • Thanks Susan (by Anonymous on 2007-07-16 14:28:28 GMT from Portugal)
Your nice Distrowatch Weekly report is greatly appreciated!
20 • "just works" (by Anonymous on 2007-07-16 14:42:15 GMT from United States)
Do people realize how stupid this "just works" phrase sounds? I'd rather have something that "works" or "works well". The Fedora 8 blurb used the "just works" phrase in case you missed it.
21 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-07-16 14:54:55 GMT from United States)
@ other anonymous guy
Booting is only as fast as the kernel you configured and the services set to start at boot. If you don't know how to configure your own kernel, then don't complain about one thats configured to work on any hardware.
By Gentoo-style installation i assume you mean compiling from source, if you actually know gentoo, then you should know of the Binhost alternative, where you can install via binary packages. It's far from complicated, its not that difficult to type "emerge mozilla-firefox" or point-and-click a GUI like Portato.
Sabayon has its own binary package management system in the works that should appear before the end of the year. Giving the users the power to choose whether to compile source or install generic, or possibly even optimized binaries.
22 • Susan at the beach! (by Jeff on 2007-07-16 15:01:56 GMT from United States)
http://www.dragonseye.com/gallery/d/3616-5/101_0178.jpg
23 • Reviews and CUPS (by Jesse on 2007-07-16 15:09:25 GMT from Canada)
I really liked the reviews of the liveCDs. It's nice to know what liveCDs out there will work as demos for friends and family.
As for the comment about CUPS and Apple, why would the project be forked? From what I can tell, development is continuing as before. If ther is a change in development which is not beneficial to the community or there is a license change I could see the problem. But I'm curious as to why Ms. Linton thinks now is the time to fork?
24 • Misc Readership and install/live CDs (by Anonymous on 2007-07-16 15:12:48 GMT from France)
a)"you've got to understand that the readership here is 99% male. " How do you know that? Perhaps women look at the Linux world and laugh...
b) Centos and Pardus nice feature: Both have live CDs which have only ONE function (demo on real hardware). The install CDs come apart. This is much smarter than havin a CD with a huge INSTALL me button, à la Fedora: [ one cannot do anything with such CDs if the distr is not that tempting or if one already has >=1 satisfying OSes: If I give such a CD to friends, how long will they remain in friendly terms?}
25 • @6 (by Adam Williamson on 2007-07-16 15:27:38 GMT from Canada)
Would that be so wrong? :)
26 • Qu 13 (by dbrion on 2007-07-16 15:43:39 GMT from France)
Your "main issue with Pardus is the lack of internationalization for OOo & Firefox... " L'avez vous signalé dans les forums de Pardus?(disons en Espagnol et en Français)
Je suis presque sûr que des Turcs habitant en Allemagne pourraient être heureux d'avoir un correcteur orthographique en Allemand et un autre en Turc (ordre alph.). Peut-être qu'un lien sur un "how-to" suffirait. Il peut s'agir d'un oubli , mais ça permettrait d'offrir davantage d'amateurs à Pardus....
27 • Sabayon Linux (by Lester Hinton on 2007-07-16 16:04:44 GMT from United States)
I am fairly new to Linux, 6 months or longer have tried a lot of the top 10 distros. I have to say for me Sabayon Linux is my no.1 choice. It the only one that I have got Beryl setup easy and work with my ATI AIW 9700. I have found the Gentoo Portage as easy to use, as any other. But I like PCLinuxOS 2007 Control Center the best of all, to setup your devices. I like all of distros, and the variety. Its more exciting then anything Microsoft is doing. A big thank you to all developers, I appreciate your hard work.
28 • RE #2 FreeNAS (by Anonymous on 2007-07-16 16:05:28 GMT from United States)
Tried it but the documentation was lacking. If there was decent deployment and support/user documentation I would have gone live with it. I can see many uses for it. The installer did not tell you what it was up to or if it was hung up or why.
29 • Pardus & other languages (by Caraibes on 2007-07-16 16:09:43 GMT from Dominican Republic)
I did indeed post many times about this issue (lack of internationalization for FF & OOo) in the Pardus World Forums & also in the Pardus-fr forums.
I also contacted the devs thru their IRC channels.
It all boils down to get the guy in charge to put those packages in Pisi.
So far, no one is paying any attention to this issue, but it mught grow larger, as I am sure I am not the one using the Spanish version, nor the French version.
We need a spellcheck in OOo.
As of now I am using Pardus to surf the web, and Fedora for "real work"...
30 • No subject (by anonymous on 2007-07-16 16:17:55 GMT from United States)
Just works is an apposite comment for Fedora. It barely just works: no DVD playing, no Java, no Flash, no codecs, just that pristine computing experience circa 1997 or so.
Yes, I agree that "just works" is a stupid accolade now that I think about it.
31 • Sabayon @18 (by hman on 2007-07-16 16:39:45 GMT from United States)
`I completly agree with #18
32 • 21 (by Anonymous on 2007-07-16 16:54:26 GMT from United States)
> If you don't know how to configure your own kernel, then don't complain about one thats configured to work on any hardware.
Excuse me? I can use any other distribution and boot up at least three times faster.
Package installation is not easy. Just try reading the instructions. You're claiming it's easy if you are familiar with Gentoo installation. Obviously if you know what you're doing it's easy. That doesn't fix the fact that there is a significant learning curve. It also doesn't fix the fact that few Linux users will take the time to learn how to use it. In the age of Synaptic and Yum, the Sabayon installation is a nonstarter.
33 • Antix slooooooooooow, get puppy!! (by Anonymous on 2007-07-16 17:00:51 GMT from Spain)
Well I've tried out antix last development iso, and it was really really slow.
I've installed lots of these suppose to be lighter distros geared to older hardware, and the only thing they do is put on some gtk light apps or older (dsl), but I don't see any performance gain. Actually debian etch is faster.
The only fast distro for my computer (pentium 3,1Ghz,128 ram) is puppy linux, faster than win98, and not only with the default (and not very pretty) window manager. I can run kde pretty smooth, check out minikde http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?search_id=752151207&t=11811, and run current kde apps perfectly fine. And you can always convert slackware packages to pets.
I thing puppy is very underestimated.
34 • Apple Inc. buys Common UNIX Printing System (CUPS) (by Greg on 2007-07-16 17:12:54 GMT from Canada)
In response to: "Another development in the Free and Open Source Software world that gave me a moment of pause was the announcement that Apple Inc. had purchased CUPS (Common UNIX Printing System). We are assured that the lead developer, Michael R. Sweet, now in the employ of Apple, will continue to develop, update, and provide code to the community under the existing GPL2/LGPL2 licensing terms. The frequently asked questions page was updated with some further information as well. Perhaps this is the time for a fork."
Perhaps, just maybe, we will need to wait and see more before suggesting that people fork the project. This is not Microsoft spreading 'Fear Uncertainty and Doubt'. We don't know what this is. Apple could be trying to ensure that CUPS is taken care of; after all, they use it too.
-omit nospam in my email address
35 • Re: 33 "Actually Debian Etch is faster" (by GL on 2007-07-16 17:13:03 GMT from United States)
I agree! I'm in the Bronze Age of Computing with a 500mhz P3/256mb RAM laptop. I enjoyed PCLInuxOS 2007 with KDE, but found it a little slow. I tried the various "distro lites" and found them quick, but xfce lacks the little things that I enjoyed in KDE and "window managers" are useless. I've taken the time to install/learn/tweak Debian Etch with KDE and now have a quick, stable and very powerful system! Not to mention access to 18,000 apps via Synaptic! I solved a couple of problems by tapping into the "unstable" or "experimental" repositories to download newer packages. All in all, great stuff!
36 • Re:30, Fedora (by Caraibes on 2007-07-16 17:13:56 GMT from Dominican Republic)
FYI, Fedora is (one of...) the very best distro out there.
You just have to add the livna repos, and off you go with all those proprietary apps you are craving for !
Fedora has been my best experience in the Linux world so far.
You could read some infos here :
http://fedorasolved.org/
http://howtoforge.com/the_perfect_desktop_fedora7
http://www.mjmwired.net/resources/mjm-fedora-f7.html
37 • Re: 32 (by averageJoe on 2007-07-16 17:16:20 GMT from United States)
Think of this: we take time to learn how to ride a bike, how to drive a car, but we don't have time to learn how to use an OS that will take you everywhere in the world(in a sense of information highway), if we agree teenager should take time with driving lesson otherwise it's dangerous to themselves as well as others, somehow I think computer new user is the same. I know I know, automatic is easier than stick shift.
38 • re:9 (by Anonymous on 2007-07-16 17:57:22 GMT from United States)
Haha that is funny comic! Especially the end where it's like use launchpad, which is not open source. hehe
One thing I have to say is that Debian I think is not recognized by foss as gnewssense is because Debian asks you if you want to enable nonfree repos during the install. There might be other reasons, but whatever Debian doesn't make the foss cut.
39 • gobuntu/debian (by Spike on 2007-07-16 19:03:09 GMT from United States)
debian doesn't remove firmware from the kernel, among other things, gobuntu will. also, debian is not a fully free version of ubuntu now is it? Stop whining.
40 • RE: 30 and 36 (by KimTjik on 2007-07-16 19:10:37 GMT from Sweden)
It would have been nice to have the same computer experience back in 1997, but I didn't! ;) More seriously, I do understand your point. It probably all depends on what features you view as valuable and expect to be included in the default package. Nevertheless I nowadays tend to see this as positive because:
- it's difficult or even impossible for "the other side" to touch RedHat as long as they maintain these strict policies - RedHat and Fedora might unbothered continue to deliver innovations which can be used by the whole community - and Fedora is a good base for developing customized distros with all the features its user base wish to see
Just as Caraibes I'm impressed by how Fedora has been able to deliver something pretty wonderful. I mean the whole Fedora project was under scrutiny for not so many years ago and many doubted its ability to make a contribution. Not all might prefer Fedora 7 as their main desktop system and work-horse, like I do, but I would be surprised if anyone doubted Fedora's importance to the whole Linux sphere.
By the way: Caraibes do you happen to be the same Caraibes sometimes seen at the BLAG forum? I like BLAG and its friendly forum. Not many distros has a main developer who is so active in supporting his/hers users like Jeff.
Now something totally irrelevant: for the first time I haven't made any changes to a default Gnome desktop; I'm talking about Fedora 7. I don't know why, but for me it's so nice for the eyes. Anyone else having this experience?
41 • Fedora 8 Feature List (by Slacker on 2007-07-16 19:15:01 GMT from United States)
I wouldn't believe anything that's on the Fedora 8 feature list, because a lot of it used to be called the Fedora 7 feature list.
42 • 30 (by Anonymous on 2007-07-16 19:25:34 GMT from United States)
No kidding, what kind of crazy idiot would think free software could ever provide a good user experience? Obviously proprietary software is superior. Those screwy, impractical freaks that think Fedora is within 10 years of Vista. How dare they. I mean, it's not like there are any other distros that provide proprietary software.
43 • 37 (by Anonymous on 2007-07-16 19:29:03 GMT from United States)
My point is that Sabayon appeals in its current state to a very small subset of Linux users. It's just too far from the Linux mainstream, and in the end provides no benefit to most users. Once they have a Synaptic-like software installation procedure, they might take off.
Yes, I could spend time learning it. But why should I? Again, it's fine for some users, I just think most users will walk away.
44 • Just Barely Works? Re:#30 (by Eddie Wilson on 2007-07-16 19:48:11 GMT from United States)
Hey you can think our great USA leadership for those problems. Those problems haunt all distros used in the good old USA.
45 • @41: Fedora 8 feature list (by Rahul Sundaram on 2007-07-16 20:16:42 GMT from India)
There is exactly one feature in Fedora 8 features list which has been moved there from Fedora 7 which is codec buddy. Everything else is new. Fedora has a time based release schedule which means that the release itself is more important than any particular feature and features get rescheduled if necessary. The feature list does have a clear disclaimer on this.
If you want to understand the process better see the feature policy at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy
46 • Fedora & Blag (by Caraibes on 2007-07-16 20:35:44 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Yes, Kim,
I am the same Caraibes from Blag. I really enjoyed the spirit at Blag. Very friendly and interesting. I just moved on to Fedora itself, as I got comfortable doing so, but I still browse the Blag forums, and highly regard the Blag community.
I have been participating in various Linux forums... It helps me learn a lot !
47 • RE: 42 Vista is developed the other way around (by KimTjik on 2007-07-16 21:01:24 GMT from Sweden)
If I understand you correct the user experience you refer to has mainly to do with the following:
- multimedia support for restricted formats and proprietary drivers for as an example graphic-cards, sound-cards etc
Concerning restricted formats we can take mp3 as an example. Didn't a federal jury in San Diego order Microsoft to pay something like $ 1.5 billion to Alcatel-Lucent for illegal use of the mp3 format? We can think whatever we like about the basis for such a lawsuit, but the bigger Linux players act wise in distancing themselves from such formats. Hopefully the whole industry will choose open formats of better quality for compression, like Ogg Vorbis. RedHat (Fedora) can't afford the risk of getting into unnecessary troubles like this. Restricted formats for DVD is an area which haunts not just Linux; in this case I would even hope that Microsoft got pissed enough to clean up the mess created by the entertainment industry (Microsoft are strong enough, but sadly the situation still plays into their hands).
I've never got any propriety drivers included with Microsoft software. Have you? Hardware manufacturers though do directly as the original producer or with licenses to redistribute them. So how come that RedHat (Fedora), or any other big Linux player, would do that without any legal rights? Livna repository includes binaries, and AMD/ATI or Nvidia for example don't seem to bother. That way we're all on safe territory.
Then I really doubt that proprietary drivers always are the best, because that would indicate that the manufacturer always have the best brains of the world employed. They don't, but since many are reluctant to publish open data-sheets, the proprietary drivers are what we have to be content with. Hence I can understand the strive - even though I'm not that strict - to exclusively use open source alternatives. The ideal situation would be if all hardware were released with open data-sheets.
So what about Vista? You can't even compare them based on such a criteria. Fedora is a totally different creature with features you won't find in Vista. Nevertheless if we anyway focus on the features of importance for you, remember then that this is ruffly how Vista's hardware support become developed (a lot of the technical documentation is available): - Microsoft publish huge documents with demands of how hardware should function to support Vista - Hardware developers scratch their heads and wonder how they possibly could achieve that, so they ask: "how do we do that?" - Microsoft answers: "we don't know so that's up to you to figure out; but remember that we controls 95 % of the desktop market so you better get moving or you'll find yourself out of business"
Imagine if RedHat would be able to get stuff fixed that way? Now they don't, but my impression is that more and more manufacturers get interested in at least passively support Linux.
I'm probably wrong about a lot of things, but that's at least how I understand the current situation.
48 • CUPS (by john frey on 2007-07-16 22:18:01 GMT from Canada)
I think CUPS is long overdue for a fork. For all the naysayers Apple is a proprietary software company, now owning the rights to the CUPS name, logos, whatever. While they might try to improve the code they are free at any time to demand licencing fees for the name or worse, introduce a proprietary layer to improved functionality. A fork is exactly what's needed to include this software in Free Software distros. Think Mozilla and Seamonkey.
Secondly, and why CUPS is overdue for a fork, is the buggy unreliable nature of the software. People have been complaining for years and it gets a little better but it's never as good as it should be. I sure wish someone would come along and kickstart the development of CUPS like Xorg did to the XFree86 code.
49 • 47 (by Anonymous on 2007-07-16 22:48:23 GMT from United States)
I think you're right about most of what you said. There are also other reasons as well.
Suppose there is a security vulnerability in a piece of proprietary software. When that software is installed by default, the reputation of the distro is on the line, even though they don't have any control over the software. And then how do they fix the problem? Do they remove everyone's drivers if the manufacturer doesn't release a patch?
It also makes it more difficult to control the release times of your distro, as you are waiting for someone else to finish their job, and there's no way to modify the software if it doesn't work. And what if nVidia decided tomorrow to stop allowing redistribution of their drivers, after getting paid by Microsoft? Wouldn't it be better to have a free driver ready and fully developed?
What it comes down to is that a distro needs control of what goes into their software. That's important.
It's all a matter of these proprietary software nuts jamming their religion down our throats. Sorry guys, I don't buy into that philosophy. Leave me alone please. You're so 1994.
50 • antix and other light distros (by Bob Hunter on 2007-07-17 00:27:40 GMT from United States)
I have a 400MHz system that I use for testing light distros. Right now it is running Debian Etch Xfce, Antix, Sam and BeaFanatix.
Of these, BeaFanatiX is the fastest with Debian Etch Xfce a close second. Antix is slow and Sam is REALLY slow.
51 • Puppy (by JAG on 2007-07-17 00:42:01 GMT from United States)
Puppy 2.17beta available !!!
52 • Puppy (by JAG on 2007-07-17 00:42:53 GMT from United States)
http://www.puppylinux.com/news/index.php
53 • antix slow (by srlinuxx on 2007-07-17 03:07:36 GMT from United States)
The comments of antix being slow is disappointing. I tested antics on a p3 667 and it wasn't significantly slower than on my modern 2.4 GHz machines. I wanted to test it on this old pentium 166, but no floppy boot image and that smart boot loader deal wouldn't work either.
As with all distros, there are so many variables in each person's experience.
54 • Hardware (by Anonymous on 2007-07-17 05:45:01 GMT from Denmark)
This could be very usefull for all of us - to all of us ! http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/89941/index.html The story of: http://hardware4linux.info/ This is really what comunity is all about ! And we can all participate ! Some of the hardware problems for some of us can be solved - if just someone out there knows. After all Distrowatch knows of 359 active distributins - and too many users to count. Let us all go - use it.
55 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-07-17 06:48:37 GMT from United States)
"...We are assured that the lead developer, Michael R. Sweet, now in the employ of Apple, will continue to develop, update, and provide code to the community under the existing GPL2/LGPL2 licensing terms. The frequently asked questions page was updated with some further information as well. Perhaps this is the time for a fork."
Let's give Apple the benefit of the doubt, we might actually get decent print capabilities out of the deal. Don't fork until necessary.
56 • JUXLALA a Linux for pre-school children (by JJ on 2007-07-17 08:05:30 GMT from Germany)
Heard about JUXLALA ? A Knoppix derivative that targets to pre-school children (3 till 7) Hardware requirements are very low, ideal for an old PC in children room http://www.jux-net.info/juxlala/index.html Include the great package Gcompris and a real desktop for children Its free, but the applications should be in German (Austrian project)
JJ
57 • OBSERVATION: Distro Downloads from Bigpond (by Anonymous on 2007-07-17 10:47:59 GMT from Australia)
[Bigpond is Australia's largets ISP (20-35%?) and provides a free (metered - non-chargeable) download server to its Cable and ADSL subscribers.]
Date.....................File..............................Size................ Downloads
june 07.........ubuntustudio-7.04-alternate-i386.........909,676,544 bytes........99
17-05-07.......edubuntu-7.04-server-i386..........726,327,296 bytes...............25 04-5-07.........Edubuntu v7.04 Desktop i386 ...............728,821,760............43 23-4-07........Edubuntu v7.04 i386 DVD ............4,653,002,752.................126 Edubuntu st = 194 [14-7-07]
23-4-07.........Xubuntu v7.04 Alternate AMD64 ......672,507,904...................18 23-4-07.........Xubuntu v7.04 Alternate i386 ........719,298,560.................101 23-4-07.........Xubuntu v7.04 Desktop i386 ..........592,488,448.................185 23-4-07.........Xubuntu v7.04 Desktop AMD64 .........596,207,616..................18 xubu st =322 [14-7-07]
14-06-07........kubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386...........728,449,024.................35 21-4-07.........Kubuntu v7.04 Alternate AMD64 ........730,697,728.................19
23-4-07.........Kubuntu v7.04 for AMD64 DVD ...........4,686,751,744..............76 21-4-07.........Kubuntu v7.04 Desktop AMD64 ...........732,901,376................36
22-4-07.........Kubuntu v7.04 i386 DVD ...............4,617,809,920..............378 20-4-07.........Kubuntu v7.04 Desktop i386 ............727,867,392................320 kubuntu st = 864 [14-7-07]
19-4-07.........Ubuntu v7.04 Server AMD64 ..............503,633,920................25 19-4-07.........Ubuntu v7.04 Server i386 ...............516,335,616...............184
19-4-07.........Ubuntu v7.04 Alternate AMD64 ...........732,018,688................56 19-4-07.........Ubuntu v7.04 Alternate i386 ............730,056,704...............206
23-4-07.........Ubuntu v7.04 AMD64 DVD .................4,255,887,360.............134 19-4-07.........Ubuntu v7.04 Desktop AMD64 .............733,171,712...............127
19-4-07.........Ubuntu v7.04 Desktop i386 ...............731,797,504..............852 20-4-07.........Ubuntu v7.04 i386 DVD ...................4,263,823,360............673 ubuntu st= 2257 [14-7-07]
No1 Ubuntu - total for all Ubu variants = 3736 [14-7-07]
openSuse 10.2 is No2 with approx 1500 Downloads (17/6/07) (bear in mind though it has been out for 6 mths +)
Fedora 7 is No3 with approx 1009 Downloads (17/6/07)
Debian is No4 with 519 downloads (17/6/07)
Mandriva is No5 with 453 (17/6/07)
Others:
Knoppix (last version (5.1.1) expired with 500 +)
Centos5 - 432 (17/6/07)
Gentoo 300 + (17/6/07)
Open BSD 210 (17/6/07)
Open Solaris = 194 (17/6/07)
Slackware 12.0^ 150 (17/6/07 - 10 days old only and verison 11.0 = 443 on 20-6-07)
[...]
Others from DW's "Top Ten Distros"
PCLinuxOS 2007 = 147 (17/6/07) - 200% increase on last version's 50 downloads.
MEpis 6.5 - 80+ (expired on 04 Jul 07)
58 • Re 57 - (17/6/07) should read (17/7/07) (by Anonymous on 2007-07-17 10:52:32 GMT from Australia)
sorry about that.
59 • linuxpowertop.org (by Anonymous on 2007-07-17 11:49:45 GMT from Australia)
About PowerTOP PowerTOP is a Linux tool that finds the software component(s) that make your laptop use more power than necessary while it is idle. As of Linux kernel version 2.6.21, the kernel no longer has a fixed 1000Hz timer tick. This will (in theory) give a huge power savings because the CPU stays in low power mode for longer periods of time during system idle.
However... there are many things that can ruin the party, both inside the kernel and in userspace. PowerTOP combines various sources of information from the kernel into one convenient screen so that you can see how well your system is doing, and which components are the biggest problem. Requirements For PowerTOP to work best, use a Linux kernel with the tickless idle (NO_HZ) feature enabled (version 2.6.21 or later). Currently, only 32-bit kernels have support for tickless idle; 64-bit kernels are expected to gain this feature in version 2.6.23.
PowerTOP works best on a laptop computer, or at least a computer with an Intel mobile processor (certain small non-laptop devices also contain a mobile processor). When using PowerTOP on a laptop, do so when running on battery.
[...]
http://www.linuxpowertop.org/powertop.php
60 • Re 59...From the same site- Tips & Tricks (by Anonymous on 2007-07-17 12:00:58 GMT from Australia)
Use a recent distribution Linux is a fast moving project, with very fast evolving components. If you're using an older distribution, older than 4 to 6 months (and anything with "Enterprise" in the name is by definition old), please consider going to a newer distribution. Reporting issues on older distributions is going to be frustrating to a lot of people, since the issue is likely to have been fixed more than 6 months ago... Please be considerate of the developers of projects and use a recent codebase and avoid bugging them about issues they solved long ago. Known issues, tips and tricks
[...]
I wonder what the people who say that our distro "will be out when its out" think of the above advice?
http://www.linuxpowertop.org/known.php
61 • RE 59, 60 Thanks for the links (by dbrion on 2007-07-17 12:15:43 GMT from France)
FYI powertop has an interesting paper in gnulinuxmagazine/France in jul./aug. 2007, p32 (www.gnulinuxmag.com, cellulotic only); this is a very technical (and oriented towards exotic CPs, sometimes) newspaper one can find in every railway station...
Have a nice winter....
62 • antiX (by macondo on 2007-07-17 13:16:34 GMT from Panama)
antiX is fast on my PII 266 with 128 MB RAM, got rid of fluxbox, left icewm, purged thing i don't use, and left it lean and mean. I was disappointed no mention of 'anticapitalista' the main force behind antiX was made :(
63 • RE 57-58 Thanks for your observations of BigPound downloads.... (by dbrion on 2007-07-17 16:46:31 GMT from France)
Except for UBUlinux, I think that Debian an gentoo might be underrepresented, as they may automagically upgrade themselves (thus making full downloads less useful)....
I noticed that your UBUlinux data could very likely be decoded automatically. As the weather is hot, artisanal reading and mental calculation could lead to errors => your download numbers can be read with a statistical software such as R (htpp://www.r-project.org) , the number of downloads per day can then be computed, and one can then try other treatments. For the UBU family, there is a great difference between 32 and 64 bits, the 64 bits having a low number of downloads... (the script below is very naive, even if the wild Internet doesnot eat characters, but I hope it can work with other series)
demain = function(annee,mois, jour) { nbj = rep(31,12) nbj [2] = 28 ; nbj[4]= 30; nbj[6]= 30; nbj[9]= 30; nbj[11]= 30; nbjr = nbj[mois] if (((annee %% 4) == 0) && (mois == 2)) nbjr = 29 jj = jour + 1 if (jj > nbjr) { jj = 1 mois = mois + 1 if (mois > 12) { mois = 1; annee = annee + 1} } return(list(jour=jj, mois=mois, annee=annee)) } # tests # str(demain(2002,04,21)) # str(demain(2002,02,28)) # str(demain(2002,12,31)) # str(demain(2004,02,29)) # # Bigpund foundation 2000 01 01 ? debut.jour=01 debut.mois=01 debut.year=2000 START = list(jour=debut.jour, mois= debut.mois, annee = debut.year) # DW date = 2007 07 14 DW.jour=14 DW.mois=07 DW.year= 2007 compteur = 0 while ((START$jour != DW.jour) || (START$mois != DW.mois) || (START$annee != DW.year)) { START = demain(START$annee, START$mois, START$jour) compteur = compteur + 1 #str(START) } str(compteur) ############################## ### fichier = "../dwww160707.txt" # may be an url, too... ###### lu= gsub('^[ ]*','', tolower(readLines(fichier))) lu = lu[ grep('ubu', lu, ignore.case = T)]
lu = gsub('..+','@',lu) lu = gsub('-i386', ' i386', gsub('[ ]*$','',gsub( ' for amd','amd',gsub('@ubu','@gnome@ubu',lu[ grep('@',lu)])))) lu = gsub('xubu', 'x@ubu', gsub('edubu', 'edu@ubu',gsub('kubu', 'k@ubu', lu))) index = ( 1 : length(lu)) %in% grep('dvd',lu) lu = paste(lu, ifelse(index, '@ãVD','@CD'), sep='') index = ( 1 : length(lu)) %in% grep('i386',lu) lu = paste(lu, ifelse(index, '@32','@64'), sep='')
lu = gsub('dvd[ ]*','',gsub('[ ]*amd64[ ]*','', gsub('[ ]*i386[ ]*','',lu)))
lu=gsub('june','15_06', lu) writeLines(gsub('_*bytes','',gsub(',','', gsub(' ','_',gsub('-', '_', lu)))), 'gidouille.UBU') tab=read.table('gidouille.UBU', header=F, sep='@', col.names=c('DT','Desk', 'Name', 'Size','Ndown', 'CD', 'Nbits'))
tab
DT=tab$DT tab$nbjr=NA for (jarry in (1: nrow(tab))) { aux = strsplit(as.character (tab$DT[jarry]), '_') [[1]] START = list(jour= as.integer(aux[1]), mois= as.integer(aux[2]), annee= 2000 + as.integer(aux[3])) compteur = 0 while ((START$jour != DW.jour) || (START$mois != DW.mois) || (START$annee != DW.year)) { START = demain(START$annee, START$mois, START$jour) compteur = compteur + 1 } tab$nbjr[jarry] = compteur } tab$rates=tab$Ndown/tab$nbjr
# here, tab can be sorted, or more sophisticated treatments applied # ex print (tab[order(tab$rates),3:9]) # difference betw. 64 and 32 bits UBUlinuxen downloads
print(summary(tab$rates[tab$Nbits==32]))
summary(tab$rates[tab$Nbits == 64])
64 • re: 56 JUXLALA (by Anonymous on 2007-07-17 17:39:35 GMT from United States)
Looks interesting. Also check out EDUnix. It's on the waiting list and has similar features. However, I don't think you need a special desktop for kids. My 5 yr. old figured out KDE and Gnome on his own.
65 • suggestion for donation (by Anonymous on 2007-07-17 17:52:53 GMT from Germany)
I would like to suggest FreeNAS for the next dw-donation. Time to donate to a BSD-based OS? The developers just released 0.685b1 as bugfix update to 0.685b List of changes: http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?group_id=151951&release_id=523100
66 • RE #50 light distros (by Anonymous on 2007-07-17 22:29:25 GMT from United States)
I noticed that SAM was slow here too on about the same system even with 192mb of memory. gnewsense didn't always work with my hardware (black scrren) even between versions. Antix was going to be the next to try.
67 • Powertop (by Geoff on 2007-07-18 11:37:55 GMT from United States)
Will Powertop make my laptop run cooler? I seldom use it on battery, so the power saving benefit is not what I'm looking for. This machine typically overheats when running Vectorlinux (hard disk: 155 F, CPU core: 179 F).
68 • TiddlyWiki on Dsl (by Fractalguy on 2007-07-18 12:05:21 GMT from United States)
I'm playing with DSL-4.0_alpha and find it pretty nice.. Very snappy booted with toram option and the JWM has a familar look for those coming from Windows. I can switch between JWM and Fluxbox without exiting my session although all program are terminated (but no user data is lost). DSL brought up my 1280x1024 screen - unlike some other liveCDs I've looked at lately (Zenwalk 4.6 gave me only 1024x768). If dsl can do it, any should be able!
I'm listening to a CD. And while that should not be a big deal, Berry-0.82 failed to give me audio.
The Internet is connected just fine (unlike with Pardus-Calisan-2007.2). In fact, I'm posting this from DSL! This alpha release seems better than some other final releases.
Also took a look at Helix V1.9-07-13-2007 and note that this forensic distro even has xmms.
I've started using TiddlyWiki to keep track of my liveCD explorations. It is stored on a thumb drive where I can get to it while reviewing a distro. If I can't get to my thumb files, that gets a big note when I get back to my home system. :)
69 • RE 67 Will Powertop make my laptop run cooler" (by dbrion on 2007-07-18 14:08:42 GMT from France)
I hope this is not an ironical question. Any way, the answer is NO for many reasons (correct me if I am wrong): a) Power Top is a dignostic tool, and can give hints to fix a configuration; in GNUlinuxmagazinefrance, jul/aug 07(abr GLMF), pp32-34, it is also used to compare different softs, for the same task (say,reading a DVD) and chosing the less consuming. Powertop gives the more accurate diagnostics when running on battery... As Vector seems a 'one app per task' distr, your choice is very limited.... b) Powertop needs a >= 2.6.21 kernel, and a >= 2.5.5 glibc as was hinted in post 57. Has Vector any of these things? (75% of glmf paper is about installation/upgrades )..
BTW there are other causes of indue heating; * bad fans (on a big desktop , with screws one can see, it is easily fixed), * bad weather (going to Patagonia in summer or air conditioning can fix it), and (I fear it is not an exhaustive list) * bad DSDT tables (with reading GLMF, mar 2006, pp31, my laptop was transformed from a hot roaring monster into a quiet computing laptop : explaination can be found at http://acpi.sourceforge.net/dsdt/index.php and lists of laptops with nonstandard ACPI tables can be found, with corrections. I know Mandriva and Suze work much on these issues, but it is very expensive to test the fixes they do with many types of laptops)...
70 • Powertop (by Geoff on 2007-07-18 14:21:45 GMT from United States)
Thank you for that informative post, dbrion. I admit that I should have studied that Powertop page more carefully; I thought it was a tweaking tool as well as diagnostic. *red face* :)
Anyway, I think I can do a few things to cool this notebook computer down a bit, one is to get a cooling pad with fans to set the machine on.
71 • No subject (by Geoff on 2007-07-18 14:24:13 GMT from United States)
"PowerTOP is a Linux tool that finds the software component(s) that make your laptop use more power than necessary while it is idle."
The very first sentence on the Powertop page.
72 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-07-18 14:26:51 GMT from France)
<< DSL brought up my 1280x1024 screen - unlike some other liveCDs I've looked at lately (Zenwalk 4.6 gave me only 1024x768). If dsl can do it, any should be able! >> Well, DSL is based on Knoppix, acclaimed for superior hardware recognition.
73 • Knoppix (by alter ekko on 2007-07-18 22:11:47 GMT from Norway)
Re 72 Knoppix used to be an outstanding distro.
But it seems to me that it no longer tries to use the more advanced features of modern computers. I have never got a 1280x1024 LCD monitor to work with more than 1024x768 on the four pc-s the monitor have been connected to.
On laptops it is even more retarded. A 2005 laptop with 1280x768 screen always booted with 1024X768. Then desktop programs (pictures etc) got stretched rather unusably. Mandrivabased distros got it right already Autumn 2005.
A new 2007 laptop w. Intel graphics 1280x800 gets the same Knoppix screen treatment. Knoppix doesn't see my Intel Wlan either. Tiny distros like recent versions of Puppy linux and MCNLive do everything right: X screen, lan, wlan, sound, video. (So do Mandriva linux, PClinuxOS, Ubuntu and some more.)
Earlier Knoppix versions could sometimes be used with a Philips USB Wlan netcard (on desktop computers) that needed Ndiswrapper software. But then a new version came (I don't remember when) that did not work and it has been that way since then.
But perhaps the Knoppix developers have relabeled Knopp as more of a rescue boot cd than one for general use? And as such a tool it is ok. (It just used to be better...)
74 • RE: #18 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-07-19 01:28:10 GMT from Italy)
I agree with you. I like Sabayon because of "sentimental" reasons, but I end up by not using it. If it were based on Debian that would be a different story.
75 • why Is NetSecL2.1 full of malwares? (by Anonymous on 2007-07-19 02:06:54 GMT from Germany)
Am an aspiring linux user but this NetSecL2.1 downloaded from ftp://bo.mirror.garr.it 2 days ago were full of malwares specific to linux as described in virus encyclopedia.Why? Tried to run it/or to install it under vmplayer,but fails,only to find out has malwares (97detected). Its name suggests secure linux w/c prompts me to try but......
Thanks
76 • re 73, screen support on some liveCDs (by Fractalguy on 2007-07-19 02:36:16 GMT from United States)
I've had issues with a number of distros that do not provide drivers on their CD. I'm always looking for liveCDs that support older hardware. Mine of course will be my first samples, I have a 5 year old nVidia GeForce 4 MX 440-SE with a nearly new thin panel monitor, 1280x1024.
I just checked from my set of CDs some you mentioned. Here are my results. Mandravia based all only go to 1024x768: Mandrivia 2007 spring one (2007-04-11), PCLos 2007, and MCNLive-Leuven all give me only 1024x768. PCLos can give better but only with a hand holding session on the live chat forum since it involves installing drivers live and re-logging in. Not a simple operation for me to hand off to someone. I've only done it once and that was enough. I'll do it for a HD install but not for a day or two liveCD session.
Puppy-2.16-seamonkey-fulldrivers has a very confusing path to follow to get the graphics up and get onto the Internet. Older Puppies I have tried were doable. I did get them up, but since the new monitor - no. I get to a test that looks like it will work (works in the test) and click OK - then it goes to black and halts. I accepted lower resolution and tried to get on the net only to get lost in that maze. Sorry, I didn't set up the modem and router so I don't know the answers to the questions presented. The modem and router are never turned off, always there. And when most distros I try just go on the net without fuss, I say why?
I'm posting this from KNOPPIX 5.1.1 CD and had no trouble getting 1280x1024. Never had trouble with my old monitor either. Elive never gave me 1280x1024, even with help from their live chat. The best I got to work was 1154x864.
The best luck I have is with debian based distros: Ubuntu, Knoppix, Sidux, Mint, DSL, etc. It is really a choice the distro makes, the drivers, and I can see when they are going after the latest board support, I might get left out. (About half of the PCLos releases did support my video, those that included my nVidia drivers.)
There is something about the debians that work for me, and I don't think it is they all have the hottest nVidia drivers. There must be a "Free" driver they call on for my card and it does the job: higher resolutions while skipping the tumbling cubes 3D stuff.
I'm going to go through my CD stack and see what correlates if anything.
77 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-07-19 03:47:57 GMT from United States)
>> There is something about the debians that work for me, and I don't think it is they all have the hottest nVidia drivers. There must be a "Free" driver they call on for my card and it does the job: higher resolutions while skipping the tumbling cubes 3D stuff.
They use the nv driver. If you don't need 3D, in my experience, nv is better than the proprietary driver - there's no hassle. If you want a free driver for 3D go with Intel or maybe the ATI 8500-9250 (I've never used ATI in my life). I hate that 3D eye candy stuff, so I use the nv driver with nvidia in all my computers, along with Debian or Ubuntu, and I'm very happy.
You're also right about Debian derivatives, sort of. Debian, Ubuntu, and several others support old hardware. I have found that Mepis chokes on old nvidia cards, as does PCLinuxOS and Mandriva. They seem to be targeting newer hardware (as you said) and thus do not properly support the old stuff.
{Off topic: I noticed that the Debian Etch installer requires only 32 MB of RAM. Compare that to the other popular, full featured distros out there.}
78 • Another good read (and topic for discussion) (by Anonymous on 2007-07-19 06:51:01 GMT from Australia)
Where is the Linux kernel going? Jun. 20, 2007
MOUNTAIN VIEW, CALIF. -- Last week, at the Linux Foundation Collaboration Summit held at the Googleplex, some of Linux's top kernel developers discussed the state of the Linux kernel today, and where it might be going.
Among the kernel developers present were Andrew Morton, James Bottomley, Chris Wright, Ted T'so, and Greg Kroah-Hartman. About the only top Linux kernel developer who wasn't present was Linus Torvalds, the originator of the kernel.
In a panel discussion chaired by Jon Corbett, a Linux developer himself and editor of LWN.net, the group took on many contentious issues.
[......]
http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS8296942554.html
79 • Re 78 --- another excerpt (by Anonymous on 2007-07-19 07:05:38 GMT from Australia)
Still, "We need to work on regressions more," Morton allowed, conceding that "2.6.21 was perhaps a bit more buggy that it should be."
Much of the work on the soon-to-arrive 2.6.22 kernel is being devoted to stabilizing these new features. Bottomley observed that the Linux kernel developers must deal with the "tension between new features and stabilizing those features." He urged users to remember that, "If you're running Fedora Core 7, then you're helping us to stabilize and test the kernel."
http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS8296942554.html
NB: Fedora 8 is again at the forefront of kernel testing by using 2.6.23 version when all the rest of the majors are using 2.6.22. FOR THIS, THEY DESERVE, AND SHOULD BE SHOWN, MORE RESPECT AMONGST THE LINUX COMMUNITY, IMHO.
80 • re 76, screen support on some liveCDs (by Alter Ekko on 2007-07-19 15:05:41 GMT from Norway)
Thanks to Fractalguy for sharing your experiences. What I have learned from several years of using linux - more like spices (or a hobby) in my mainly Windows diet, I must confess, is this:
It is NEVER possible to predict how well or bad a distro will work on a computer without actually trying it. I have a thick loose leaf book filled with yellow sticker notes from using 100-150 distros on five different computers that have been my "main" machines throught the last years.
( I cannot throw away anything so I keep them around. And there even more in the cellar. Somethimes it is interesting to get a P166 om the internet; that's easy both with Windows XP or, say, DSL. Or even an "antique" 386/20MHz, a 486, P100 and so on.)
It is very rare that ONE single distro have been working on all of the more recent computers. Often on one computer everything "just works" while the same distro refuses to even boot on another computer. (So when someone in this forum or elsewhere says that a favorite distro can do eveything I always know that they have not tried linux much.)
Therefore: I am not surprised that you have been lucky with KNOPPIX 5.1.1 CD and 1280x1024 and I have not. And likewise that MCNLive and Puppy linux get the screen right here and not in your case. (I'm using the latest MCNLive, Delft and Toronto. Perfect on my HP Pavillion 2000, but not booting on an older computer...) Puppy 2.16 suggests the correct X her without any tweaking...
The linux world is interesting but often somewhat puzzling...
81 • re: 79 (by Anonymous on 2007-07-19 16:44:30 GMT from United States)
Fedora 8 is in alpha, it's not into testing, and I don't know why Fedora should be applauded for jumping to the next kernel before the previous version has been thoroughly debugged.
I like this quote that you took from the article: "If you're running Fedora Core 7, then you're helping us to stabilize and test the kernel."
It's so terrible isn't it!? It's like saying Fedora users are beta testers, and on top of that the author of that article reinforces our perception of his ignorance by not dropping "Core" from the title, as it is no longer part of the name.
The testing and stabilizing is part of the beta and RC testing before the release, I don't perceive users of Fedora stable as beta testers of the kernel or anything. It kind of ties in with the misconception that Fedora is just beta testing for Red Hat.
82 • re:81, about Fedora (by Caraibes on 2007-07-19 18:43:19 GMT from Dominican Republic)
I would not have wrote that people need to applaud us !!!
Hiwever, I just want to say, as a Fedora user, that as much as you think we are all a bunch of beta-testers, Fedora has been the best experience for me in the Linux world, and I had various opportunities to use other (good) distros also...
For me, Fedora is simply the very best for my desktop, but i fully understand that various distros fits various hardwares, so this is just my own personal experience. I never ran into a bug... I had some issues with K3b in FC3, FC5 & FC6 for blanking CD-RW's, but it's fixed in F7...
Fedora is "el numero uno", but I also highly regards Debian, *buntu, Mandriva/PCLOS...
(couldn't deal with Pardus after all... not ready for prime time...)
83 • fedora (by Anonymous on 2007-07-19 18:53:39 GMT from United States)
Well, fedora sure isn't ready for prime time on my two machines. I can't get 7 to see my broadcom wireless card on my Acer laptop or my ethernet card on my Gateway pc.
Not to complain, I do try a lot of distros. "Out of the box," to me, is a good label for Vectorlinux SOHO 5.8.
But I've noticed not for everybody.
I do think Fedora is RedHat's little beta boy out there in the distro world, no matter what they say.
84 • elive is free (by sartrer on 2007-07-19 20:02:49 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi all. As most of you, I am surprised with this turn in Elive's life and the bad way its creator is telling us... you have to pay now. He has all the right to sell, but he must be more honest with the community.
I wonder (and ask!) what the developers of Elive are thinking... I guess all of them gave so much of their knowledge and time to make Elive what it is now. Do they have to pay the bills too?...
At the moment I am not upset but dissapointed. Lack of transparency is not good...
http://edevelop.org/node/3584?from=0&comments_per_page=30
85 • elive (by Jeff on 2007-07-19 21:37:09 GMT from United States)
There are many distros, sartrer . :)
86 • @77 (by Adam Williamson on 2007-07-20 00:16:12 GMT from Canada)
Mandriva's logic for NVIDIA cards is as follows:
Riva TNT and earlier are automatically set up with nv.
TNT2 through GeForce 2 (except 2MX) give the user a choice between nvidia71xx and nv, where a repository containing nvidia71xx is available. Otherwise, nv is used.
GeForce 3 through GeForce 4 (plus 2MX) give the user a choice between nvidia96xx and nv, where a repository containing nvidia96xx is available. Otherwise, nv is used.
GeForce FX through 8800 give the user a choice between nvidia97xx and nv, where a repository containing nvidia97xx is available. Otherwise, nv is used.
So in all cases you get either nv or a choice between nv and the appropriate proprietary driver for the card in question. I can't see how this could be improved...
87 • Is Linux a real desktop OS? (by Anonymous on 2007-07-20 03:24:32 GMT from Australia)
After distrohopping for a number of years, I've been thinking about the difference between Linux and Windows/Mac. It seems to me that Linux is more of an "OS tool" with which one can use open source software - rather than being a dedicated desktop OS for the masses. In fact, if one were to be unkind, one could go so far as describe Linux as a glorified GUI frontend for open source apps.
OSNews has a similar discussion about the nature of Linux:
http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=18293&limit=no&threshold=-1
Comments in this article note that the OS is released in short cycles and is tied to open source applications. So in order to upgrade an app it is recommended to upgrade the entire OS. This makes it unsuitable as an enterprise-class OS.
In contrast, Windows or Mac OS releases last longer (i.e., are upgraded less often), are more robust (more work goes into them), and they are upgraded separately from their respective applications.
Perhaps this difference is why Linux is not catching on as a desktop OS.
88 • re 80 • re 76, screen support on some liveCDs (by Alter Ekko) (by Fractalguy on 2007-07-20 03:45:08 GMT from United States)
You may have seen the stupid Alexander Wolfe article (don't click on it again, it is a troll): Too Many Linux Distros Makes For Open-Source Mess referenced and debunked in Are There Really Too Many Linux Distros? http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2007/07/are_there_reall.html It is like whack-a-mole, everybody from slash-dot to lxer to zdnet is responding.
Looks like we need many distros to cover the desktop needs since including all drivers in the kernel can result in conflicts. I commented on this on my web page and here.
Consider, when each OEM issue of Windows has special drivers and stuff included - like the restore CD for an e-machine I once had - one could say each of these is a new "Windows distro". Same diff here with Linux only here we have more flexability since the distro is not really totally machine dependent. So demo-ing Linux to a WinNoob will certainly require a stack of maybe 6 CDs, sort of like selling paint colors using chip samples.
Here is what I'd like to see: a live CD that on booting shows the hardware, network, printers etc AND recommends distros supporting that set "right out of the box". It might be KNOPPIX based for a start. And if a distro wants to be included they can do some of the leg work on this. What would it take? a small data base matrix linking hardware and drivers through to the distros. Such a project would be like-unto distrowatch in complexity. :)
89 • No subject (by Hardware on 2007-07-20 05:51:38 GMT from Denmark)
Or take it a step further. The missing drivers could be uplloaded or updated more or less automatic in the same way as we do with our software today. The LSB printer project is alredy headed in that direction: http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/News Hardware in general as mentioned in #54
90 • @87 (by Adam Williamson on 2007-07-20 07:52:01 GMT from Canada)
Wow. That's wrong in so many ways I just don't even know where to start.
91 • RE 84 "I wonder (and ask!) what the developers of Elive are thinking." (by dbrion on 2007-07-20 09:32:36 GMT from France)
s/developers are/developer is/ In fact, it is very likely. As one cannot be full time intelligent, one could be sometimes indulgent with little distrs... Except for writing Arabic the yaw gnorw in the starting menu (as does/did edUBU, at least in nov 2006) I did not see many flaws with a previous version I VMplayed (used for compiling... most of the headers were present for R and Grass). AFAIK, one cannot freely download (correct me if I am wrong) every kind of PC and graphical stuff. The idea of selling (at the price one wants) a distr which might be interesting for flashy-trendy graphical effects is not that bad, IMO..
92 • @87 and 90 (by davecs on 2007-07-20 12:50:41 GMT from United Kingdom)
Another useful aspect to open source coding is that when a new package is released, or a package is upgraded, that other packages can be tweaked to maximise compatibility. Try that with closed source code coming from a number of different companies.
DLL hell, anyone?
93 • RE 92 "useful aspect to open source coding" (by dbrion on 2007-07-20 14:20:10 GMT from France)
This would be useful if: * there were no regressions (see @78 link: kernel developper agree this sometimes happens....) * the new package were useful, or the upgrade were pertinent.
" DLL hell, anyone?" One can happily live with many versions of a given DLL (say cygwin's ones, to speak of closed source....)
BTW Are there Linuxen which can cope with different existing versions (say, of gcc?) . I know users can do it (this began in the 90s, with systyrans not upgrading the applications at all ... and led to GoboLinux in a rigorous way... ) But are there other linuxen ? (ex : Octave seems to be easily compiled with gcc-3.4.6 and g77, but not with gcc4.2 and g77 => an ordinary user should have 2 or 3 gccs + fortran compilers to have octave and R working and to port them to un-upgraded (Linux or Windows) platforms? Do PCLOSS or UBUlinux, say, provide a comfortable mechanism for this?)
94 • Re: 87 "Windows is upgraded less often" (by GL on 2007-07-20 14:21:11 GMT from United States)
...if you don't consider service packs and security fixes "upgrades." If you do, Windows is "upgraded" on a weekly basis!
95 • 94 (by Geoff on 2007-07-20 21:08:28 GMT from United States)
Service Packs are not weekly, as you know. There were only 2 for XP in all the years it's been out.
Securityl "fixes" are largely responses to virus writers and other vandals with code knowledge, etc. Linux has those, too. We're always downloading and installing megabytes of vulnerability patches for our linux distros, who do you think you're kidding?
96 • Linux Format needs to offer PDF only subscription. (by Brian on 2007-07-20 23:35:21 GMT from United States)
I agree with some of the other comments on here. LXF is too expensive. I am not renewing any more. I won't even buy it on newsstand. In fact, just as a method of protest, I go to the book store, bring my notepad and make notes from the articles. I have written the editor and told him this several times too.
Linux is about freedom, being creative and thinking outside the box. The fact that Linux Format does not offer a DVD-less version is just plain stupid and not offering a PDF only subscription is insane! I would pay $30 a year for that! I cannot justify paying $200 a year any more! If I won't pay that much money for 1 lousy copy of Windows XP, why would I pay that for Linux Format every year, over and over?
They have to create digital version for the magazine process as it is...for them to convert that already existing material to PDF for download would cost them almost nothing. With PDF only, I could easily archive them, there would be no clutter or jme having to store them in boxes or throw them out. I would not have useless, dust collecting DVDs laying around. I mean really...how many distros do you actually need? I toy with one or two and that is enough for most people that have real jobs and real lives to live.
Linux moves forward. Linux Format clings to the George Bush mentality of "Stay the Course". Sorry linux Format. I have moved on.
97 • # 87, # 90 Linux vs Windows/Mac (by Anonymous on 2007-07-21 02:05:24 GMT from Australia)
I'm just trying to clarify the fundamental difference between Linux and Windows/Mac. I think this is it:
Linux is tied to applications - but is more hardware independent - so that when new versions of the OS come out they include or require new versions of Open Source applications as well.
In contrast, Windows and Mac are independent of applications - but are tied to hardware. So when a new version of the OS is released people usually have to upgrade their hardware rather than their applications.
This need for hardware upgrading has produced a glut of old computers which are pretty much useless. Enter the Linux OS - that is more hardware independent and carries its own applications. So in a sense, the consumerist world of Windows and Mac have produced the very environment to allow Linux to prosper. If hardware wasn't upgraded so much Linux would still be nowhere.
The question is: how will all this unfold in the future? Will Windows/Mac still lead, or will Linux catch up and become equal or even take over the lead?
98 • Re: Caraibes & KimTjik post 4 PARDUS (by torontix on 2007-07-21 16:00:13 GMT from Canada)
Hey pals, i truly appreciate your comments about PARDUS. I have been following and reading your postings since sometime. Months ago, your analysis about this unique distro encouraged me to give it a try--- and the rest is history, as i'm now in love with PARDUS!!
As for Fedora, yes it might be a true international distro, but i personally am not that much impressed about it, as PARDUS is much lighter, polished, user-friendlier, and spectacularly beautiful --- despite its being a much a younger project than Fedora.
Comrade Caraibes and KimTjik-- please keep posting your views to enlighten people like me, who are only simple Linux users. Similarly, please keep writing and pressing those stubborn (LOL)Turkish developers of PARDUS to clear this great distro of all nuisances so that it becomes a truly international distro, joining the first 10 best distros on the list.
P.S. I wonder if PARDUS people ever visit Distrowatch to read our comments about their underestimated distro???
99 • Re:98 (by Caraibes on 2007-07-21 17:21:21 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Thanks for your post, Torontix...
Indeed, Pardus has some great potential, but the devs are just too slow to address issues, or to answer anything in the world-forums...
I just gave up on this release, and will try it again when they have a newer one...
In the mean time, I still have F7 as my primary OS, and wiped Pardus to install PCLOS 2007 on my second partition... I must admit that Mandriva & PCLOS devs have done an outstanding job... It is a good release !
100 • PCLinuxOS (by Jerry on 2007-07-21 18:45:40 GMT from United States)
Is it ok to state a problem in here that I cannot resolve in the PCLinuxOS forums? I have been attempting to install the 2007 version of PCLinuxOS on my laptop and only get a blank/black screen at a point in the installation process when it's supposed to be detecting hardware.
On my old pc this was aleviated by installing in "console" mode and then editing the xorg.conf file with vim to show my nVidia 5200 FX graphics card. That worked and I've been running 2007 for several weeks on the pc with no problems at all; I really like the way PCLinuxOS is set up, etc.
But I cannot get to the xorg.conf file on this laptop. I just get a blank/black screen. Does anybody know a tweak/trick I can do to cause the installation to finish and allow me to go into the configuration files with an editor?
101 • Re:100 (by Caraibes on 2007-07-21 20:26:06 GMT from Dominican Republic)
You might want to try either Mandriva One, or any of the *buntu's... While I am in the *buntu section, let's englobe Mepis & Mint... Usually those have all drivers ready...
102 • re 100 • PCLinuxOS (by Jerry) (by Fractalguy on 2007-07-21 21:18:44 GMT from United States)
To get your drivers correct on the liveCD you are installing from, I suggest running synaptic, search for nVidia and find a few drivers. Select the one for your card. Note the name of the driver. Log out and log in again - do not reboot. This should get your nVidia going on the live CD.
Now you should get through the installation.
After rebooting to the HD, you may have to repeat this, logging into text mode (mode 2, I think) and there you can run apt-get, installing the same driver if it isn't present. You should be able to edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf also. Reboot again and hope. :)
It is very possible I don't have this right. I haven't done it here on my desktop, prefering to stay with my old PCLos p93 installation. On my test drive I did set up PCLos T3 and I didn't have as much trouble as you are having.
Good luck!
103 • re 100, 102 (by davecs on 2007-07-21 22:41:21 GMT from United Kingdom)
I also have a laptop that boots to a blank screen in PCLinuxOS. The video system is an ATi Radeon Mobility X700. There is a setting in the control centre that sets "Enable Duplicate Display on External Screen" on similar. When I uncheck this it works fine.
The key here is that when the screen goes black, I press CTRL-ALT-F1 and get a text screen, log in as root, and type the command "video". It's possible now to change my settings through a "curses" type interface. I am able to go through the settings and uncheck this setting. It also defaults to 16 colours, and I find that I need 24 to run Beryl and Compiz correctly. There is a further setting to Use EXA. This will be OK with the live CD, but some forthcoming changes in the xorg ati drivers will prevent this setting working with Beryl/Compiz, so make sure this is unchecked also.
Next I press CTRL-ALT-F7 to return to the "Black" screen, and then "CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE" to restart X at which point everything works.
Now of course there are alternate settings on the PCLOS live CD to use vesa or fbdev. These provide access to a GUI though at restricted resolution, and from there you can sort out almost everything in PCC.
One thing though, you won't get help with a "black screen" question on an FX5200 card if no-one else has ever had that problem... in my experience the xorg nv driver is selected on install, and, apart from 3D, works perfectly. The only problems I have experienced are with a Digital Monitor connection, some cheaper cards have the socket but aren't really up to the job.
104 • If people love PCLOS so much because of its control center ->>> (by Jack Da Ripper on 2007-07-22 06:16:44 GMT from Australia)
they SHOULD try the REAL THING - MANDRIVA CONTROL CENTER!!! I did and I am never going back to any Claytons "distros" again. :-)
JDR
PS: I read somewhere that the rippers want to build from scratch. I say, YES - GO FOR IT!!!
105 • PCLinuxOS on my laptop (by Jerry on 2007-07-22 11:03:17 GMT from United States)
Thanks for your response, Caraibes, but I've had many distros over the years and PCLinuxOS is the best for me. What I'm doing now, after permenently installing it on my pc, is working through some hassles getting it installed on my laptop, tlhen I'll be happy.
Fractalguy, the nVidia card is on the pc, not the laptop. The laptop has intel 945 graphics. I'll do a search for those drivers, but I have to admit I have no idea how to use synaptic in a machine with no operating system. Is there something I'm missing in your post? Am I supposed to get the drivers onto a CD using my pc and then use that CD somehow in the installation process on the laptop? I've never heard of such a thing being done on a machine with no OS.
106 • RE 70 Heating issues (by dbrion on 2007-07-22 13:33:56 GMT from France)
Geoff I m very sorry for being perhaps somewhat harsh: I was confused with Fahrenheits and with #90 C temperatures...
I tried on my laptop: when 'idle' (but many services + kde + konsoles opened) I get 40C; this is the regime where powertop could be interesting... when compiling for more than 20 minutes (R, Octave, gcc-2.4.1,...), it never goes beyond 64 C. -18 months ago, it was hotter and noisier, while it remained cool and quiet under XP: I thought of an Ute or Cheyenne distribution [ there is Pioneer Linux ] and feared smoke signals : perhaps it might be a way to communicate when there is a blank screen...)..
The DSDT table was incorporated into the initrd file, once corrected (18 months ago, my laptop overheated)... [this leads me not to change a Linux version too often]
The script I used to monitor the temperature was the following (from memory) ## LAG=60 # 1 sample every minute >tempe$LAG # thermal history file while [ 1 == 1] ; do a=`cat /proc/acpi/thermalzone/THRM/temperature b=`date` echo $a $b # to the screen echo $a $b >> tempe$LAG sleep $LAG done
Have a nice summer
107 • Overheating Vectorlinux (by Geoff on 2007-07-22 13:58:53 GMT from United States)
dbrion, thank you (again) for taking an interest in my query up there about that overheating issue in Vectorlinux on our laptop (three of us share this new Acer).
We decided to toss Vector and go with the distro that's been so reliable and fun to use on our old Gateway pc, PCLinuxOS. Trouble is, we can't get the installation past the graphics detection phase, so we're looking for a way to just get the live CD to work as a starting point.
The pclinuxos forums have not been able to hit on the problem, unfortunately, and we think that it might be something simple that is being overlooked. The CD is good and the md5sum checks out, etc. So it's not that.
108 • distr for laptops (by dbrion on 2007-07-22 15:05:30 GMT from France)
Perhaps the quickest way of getting a distr which has the great features one appeciateson a desktop would be to look to parent (father or sons) distributions, and see if they can support a screen. In the PCLOSS case, one doesnot know (of course) whence it was almost entirely copied, but there is an interesting unparasitic son, SAM linux (which acknowledges her origins!!!).. Else, Potemkining (Microsoft Windows XP + Vmplayer + any distr) can solve almost any screen problem, unless it becomes a religious concern (there is no Truth except in PCLOSS)...
109 • No subject (by Geoff on 2007-07-22 15:49:22 GMT from United States)
I'm not sure what "parsitic son" and "unparasitic son" wrt distros. I know how most are derived or forked or amalgamations of some older distros; Mandrake came from Redhat 5.1 and PCLinuxOS came from Mandrake/Mandriva and Vector came from Slackware, etc. All have the Linux kernel.
Anyway, that's a side issue. I'm trying to see a way to get PCLinuxOS on our Acer laptop to work. Vector was fine until we discovered the heating problem. Maybe that's something that needs to be dealt with as an issue unto itself, but meanwhile we do want just one distro for both of these computers: PCLinuxOS 2007.
110 • RE: 46 and RE: 98 (by Anonymous on 2007-07-22 16:00:25 GMT from Sweden)
Interesting to know that you're the same Caraibes, I mean it makes the huge anonymous Internet a bit smaller.
Pardus: As Caraibes wrote it has a lot of potential. If I remember right dbrion made a post some time ago about how such distros first of all will pay attention to its own, in this case Turkish users. That's a logical approach which can be seen by on their home page. Three objects are listed as "Pardus Aims" and the first is the following:
"To provide full Turkish support by making the character structure compatible to Turkish (UTF-8 compatibility) and by making all the messages and documents visible to users into Turkish."
I understand that and accept that it for some time will be the dominant aim. Since it has gained some momentum it will now be interesting to see how it can live up the second object:
"To ensure that it is an operating system which can be installed and used more easily than the existing Linux distributions and other competitive operating systems."
That's something that doesn't have anything to do with language support, but more about a clean and correctly configured distro which works on a wide range of hardware. Especially in view of the third and last object:
"Designing its in a modular configuration which can achieve the required flexibility and high performance with a task-based and human-focused approach rather than a tool-based and technology-based one."
How the team behind the Pardus project deals with the issues encountered will prove if Pardus will become more than promising. I suppose they got to have a more active response to issues posted in English, because a big base of hardware configurations is always needed. As it is now you sometimes randomly come across an explanation from a developer of how certain configuration commands should be used, which is a bit frustrating, because no wiki no documentation do cover those aspects in a language that I understand (in view of this we probably have to be thankful for PCLinuxOS not being maintained by a swahili only speaking Texstar).
I still have Pardus running on one machine - to keep an eye on how it develops - but I realize that it has it's limitations. On the other hand it probably already works better than many on most hardware (like it does on the system I'm referring to). All in all Pardus is a good distro (some traditionalist of Unix security might and have proven to get upset over some security aspects in Pardus; but I personally think that's up to the user to decide whether he/she likes it or not), and if the team shows humbleness to accept (bug reports does indicate that that's the case) certain flaws and cut off the ruff edges, it could certainly become a real contender.
On the other hand I've got no success running Ubuntu on several of my computers, so I think we should be just as forgiving when talking about Pardus. One of the few distros which works on a whole range of my computers are Fedora, no matter if it's Intel, AMD/ATI or Nvidia based or a mix of those, but then I also realize that Fedora probably have a bigger and more experienced organization with more resources.
111 • About post 110 (by KimTjik on 2007-07-22 16:01:49 GMT from Sweden)
Just for clarity: it was written by me (I did push the button to hastily).
112 • 105 • PCLinuxOS on my laptop (by Jerry) (by Fractalguy on 2007-07-22 19:39:51 GMT from United States)
"I have no idea how to use synaptic in a machine with no operating system. "
Jerry, sorry for any confusion. I'm thinking when you try to install the OS, you are using the live CD. At that point, you do have use of synaptic and can try installing drivers in the live session. When you find one that works, note which one it is. Checking the driver installation involves exiting X and logging in again.
Now if the install finishes (you are still in live CD mode) the OS should be on the HD. You can check if it is, look at the files on the HD. I did this whentrying to get KNOPPIX loaded on a partition. The whole thing was there, viewable from KNOPPIX live. But it would not boot. Anyway, I figure you can check it out from the live session to some extent. If the OS is not installed, then it is some other problem. GRUB, etc. :/
Now you boot into the HD but in mode 2 in need be (text only) and there you can use apt-get to load the driver you found from the live session. You can even edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf to reflect the changes.
Someone with more expertise than I can verify/clarify my idea, I'm happy to learn here. In fact video driver issues and Internet connection are two of my many area for growth. I'm goping by stuff I learned on live chats on Elive and PCLos. It would be useful to have detailed instructions on how to do this if there is anything useful.
What-ever, I'm not going back to the legacy OS. :)
113 • RE: 98 RE: 99 Pardus developers (by chris on 2007-07-22 20:31:07 GMT from United States)
I submitted a bug report about a hang at the last install screen of the Pardus 2007.2 RC. An e-mail was sent to me by : "Firstly, sorry for the late answer Your last problem about hung in GoodBye screen is fixed in repository and your computer won't hung with Pardus 2007.2 (when we release it )"
114 • Correction to my 113. (by chris on 2007-07-22 20:36:49 GMT from United States)
The second line should read: An e-mail was sent to me by gokmen@pardus.org.tr
115 • Bye bye Linspire (by Fractalguy on 2007-07-22 20:44:39 GMT from United States)
I actually installed and ran Lindows for a few weeks 3 years ago. And I have a nicely boxed Linspire Five-O. But I don't use it and will not pass it on to others. No point in spreading the Linspire/Microsoft OS any further. Read some of why on Groklaw.
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2007072014373817
"We can read the Linspire-Microsoft patent agreement now, ... (more details omitted here) ... "Here's what you can still do: just sit there and don't make any sudden moves. Pretend you are using Microsoft software instead of GPL'd software. Don't think. Don't modify. Don't share. Don't explore. Don't improve. Don't innovate. Don't distribute. Don't sublicense. Don't do 'unauthorized' things. Don't do nuttin' or you might get sued. What was Linspire thinking?"
116 • Graphic Cards in LINUX (by RadOH on 2007-07-23 01:24:49 GMT from United States)
PCLOS is my choice, because it does and I can. Now any Distro I try or install, I always use video safe mode, WHY? Its the only real way to set up a custom install with all the different hardware thats out here and I've found the best way to stop any problems before they start. The reason is control, get it to load, get it to install, and solve any setup problems if any after you have setup and installed the correct drivers made for the release or make them yourself. Thats what a M$ free Linux OS is all about. And if you don't know how, READ, its all there in the forums. Almost any forum. sound is another problem, same thing. But thats our choice.
117 • Re 110 Pardus multi-language (by dbrion on 2007-07-23 06:24:03 GMT from France)
As there are many bilingual Turks, it might be an interesting feature, as Caraibes wrote: once it is done for two languages, I do not see the difficulty of getting it done in its full generality.
I noticed that , last year, Pardus was meant only for Turkish: now, it gets support in Catalan (language written in a rich part of Spain and sometyime spoken in South France, but considered as a minor language (cf DWW in july 2007) in Asia or america.) I suppose that developpers have no time to answer immediately, but, if one explains it is a need of the Turkish emigrated communauty, a bilingual Pardus wo not be inconsistent with their claim...
118 • Re 109 : Definition (and example ) of parasitic GNU/linux distrs... (by dbrion on 2007-07-23 06:38:21 GMT from France)
"I'm not sure what "parsitic son" and "unparasitic son" wrt distros" Maintenant, je suis sûr que vous faites l'idiot. Au cas où, vous pouvez relire avec profit, il y a 2 semaines: * les dénégations embarassées, voire insultantes de OPardus une fois qu'on a pu constater que, malgé des efforts d'effacement (liés selon god/Texstar à une économie de place bien dérisoire), il s'agit d'une copie non reconnue mais à 99% de "Mandriva! Duh! I "(comme l'écrit si élégamment devnet dans DWWhttp://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070716&mode=15, poste 64).
* une fois que cette méthode de "développement" a été indéfendable, les explications boiteuses (ce sont des demi-mensonges, bien évidemment).
Le fait de copier donne-t-il le droit de: * prendre des versions non corrigées (les corrections ayant lieu sur la distribution initiale pour des raisons de sécurité)? * mentir aux utilisateurs?
119 • cor 118 (by dbrion on 2007-07-23 06:40:15 GMT from France)
s/de OPardus/du gang des bricoleurs de PCLOSS/
Number of Comments: 119
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Morphix was a derivative of Knoppix, another live CD distribution. Morphix was modular; this means that it consists of a number of parts which together form a working distribution. What does this mean to a normal user? Well, that's the good part: it doesn't even know about the modules. They are invisible to it, save the startup-output on the console. So, if you don't care about how it works, just grab one of the combined ISOs and boot it! There are different pre-made cd images with a whole range of (currently GUI-centered) software. It has an easy-to-use installer, if you wish to install it to your harddisk, but it doesn't need to be installed. It doesn't touch the rest of your system without specifically asking you.
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