DistroWatch Weekly |
DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 189, 12 February 2007 |
Welcome to this year's 7th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! It was a fairly quiet week, with only Mandriva's new beta release and Linspire's announcement about its partnership with Ubuntu making major headlines. In this week's issue, we have the honour to bring you a rare interview with a female entrepreneur and Linux enthusiast: Dianne Ursini from Pioneer Linux. The news section then starts with a sad news of Florent Villard (Warly) leaving his employer (Mandriva) of eight years, before it continues with an observation about the Linspire announcement, comment on the Fedora release notes issue, update on the second release candidate of Debian Installer, and information about the status of Ulteo. Finally, don't miss several interesting links, such as the story of the RPM package manager and an interview with "Jaromil", the founder and developer of the dyne:bolic multimedia live CD. Happy reading!
Content:
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Interview |
Interview with Dianne Ursini, Pioneer Linux
Pioneer Linux from Technalign is a relatively new arrival on the Linux distribution scene. Based on Kubuntu, it includes Automatix for easy installation of some useful, non-free applications, such as media codecs, browser plugins and device drivers. While a community edition is available for free download from the project's web site, the main value of this commercial distribution is its extensive network of partners and retailers in much of North America which makes it easy for anyone to get a boxed copy of Pioneer Linux or even a complete computer system with Pioneer pre-installed.
We spoke to Dianne Ursini, the founder and CEO of Technalign, about her courage and dedication to pursue a Linux-based enterprise, the Pioneer Linux distribution, and other topics.
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DW: Dianne, thank you very much for taking time off your schedule to answer our questions. Can you please introduce yourself to the readers? How old are you? Where do you live? What do you do for living?
DU: I'm Dianne Ursini and CEO of Technalign, Inc. I have been in IT since 1971 starting part-time as a computer operator at 16 on mainframes. So I don't have to answer my age, you can always calculate it :) Actually my mother got me into computers and was a computer operator starting in the 1960s. I live in the Rocky Mountains in Surface Creek, Colorado, on the incline of the Grand Mesa around 7,200 feet above sea level. The company location is in Cedaredge, around 6,200 feet above sea level.
DW: It's not often that DistroWatch has the honour to interview a woman, let alone a female entrepreneur who has based her business on Linux. Can you tell us about the beginnings of your love affair with the open source operating system? What made you choose this line of business?
DU: I came into open source because of my son Preston. He also has been into computers since a very young age. For a long time Preston had been telling me that Linux was the best operating system in the world and was running on it some of the computers we had around. Of course, I didn't pay much attention to Linux or him in the beginning and it actually took a bit of coaxing to get me to look at it, but once I did the rest is Technalign history.
I see Linux as an excellent alternative to Windows. Linux has really grown to be the stable environment with the functionality both companies and individuals are looking for.
DW: Do you use Linux as the main operating system on your desktop?
DU: I haven't used Windows much since around 2003. Actually, working on or using a Windows system is somewhat alien to me now. Using CrossOver Office in the beginning, I ran several applications and that made the transition easy. Of course WINE would work well for some applications as well. Technalign has only two Windows systems in house, one for the shipping department and the other for testing. My personal computer at home runs Pioneer Linux, of course.
Pioneer Linux uses KDE as its default desktop. (full image size: 452kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
DW: Can you introduce your team to us? How many people work on Pioneer Linux and what are their main responsibilities?
DU: We have three developers who work on Pioneer Linux as well as other applications such as HIATLANTIS, our Customer Relationship Management system. There are also sales people who work with partners and people who call in.
We are working with Automatix as well and will have an edition that will contain most of the demanded applications on a second CD or DVD. This will be able to be used by the Ubuntu and Kubuntu communities as well. The team is currently evaluating an effort to develop a Linux-based Flare phone with Canonical as part of our consumer electronics and Flare line of products. The Flare Phone will be at the high-end of the cellular phone market.
DW: Pioneer Linux is a commercial distribution - you give away free CD images for non-commercial use, but any commercial activity requires a license. How successful has Technalign been so far in selling Pioneer Linux licenses?
DU: Technalign started its Pioneer distribution in November 2006, replacing the Frontier line we carried previously. Pioneer has been accepted more for people to transition off of Windows than our previous products. We have over 800 partners and retailers in the United States and Canada, with one coming on in Italy. The majority of these are moving to Pioneer because of the ease of use over our Frontier line of products previously offered.
We have been successful selling boxed products within our partner and distribution network. I must admit our success has started to climb after a long haul with our previous product. Part of the success is the people at Technalign and our great partner network.
DW: Do you also sell support?
DU: This is a tricky question. We sell support only when and if a Technalign partner is not in the area of a company or individual seeking it. Our distributor, Big Boy Distribution, also provides support for people purchasing products online as well as our partners purchasing products from them directly. Technalign does not sell products directly to the end-user and supports its partner network and lends assistance to the Pioneer community.
Also, we are starting to list jobs available for people with Linux and Windows experience as some of our partners have requested.
DW: Forgive me for being somewhat sceptical, but the Linux distribution market is very crowded at the moment. What makes you believe that your business model of selling a Linux distribution will be profitable? Many have tried this and failed miserably....
DU: We've been doing this since 2002 and have created an extraordinary group of retailers and partners, even while Microsoft continues to combat our efforts in these partner locations. We believe a product such as Pioneer Linux, the relationship with Canonical, and a strong partner network will make Technalign successful. Our partner network is a plus for Technalign, and allows an individual to walk into a computer store to pick up a copy of a boxed product of Pioneer Linux and receive support as well as conversions, if required, from Windows to Linux.
Along with this, we continuously are in telephone contact with all of our partners and potential partners. Our representatives not only embrace Linux, but they also use Pioneer on their home computers and are level 1 support to the partners. Our business model is what makes us stand out in the crowd.
DW: Do you or your partners sell complete computer systems with Pioneer Linux pre-installed? If so, where can I buy such a computer?
DU: We currently have three OEMs that configure and sell systems. Britt Systems, Henson Business Products, and Gig-A-Byte computers. We are always looking for OEMs, but not all those that request being an OEM do become official OEMs. You can find our OEMs on the OEM page.
DW: Can you name a few of your partners/retailers? Any big or familiar names among them?
DU: Our partners are usually solutions providers, on-site repair companies or retailers. We will only sell to those companies that provide support to an end-user. As a matter of fact, even our distributors, Big Boy Distribution and Software 2 U Express, provide support to partners and individuals. If I can clarify, you won't find us anywhere that doesn't provide support to its customers. A few partners that come to mind are Skunk-a-Riffic in Fairfield, Ohio and Mr. B's in Indiana. However, all of them are excellent in assisting people with boxed copies of Pioneer Linux. If someone can't find a partner, they can always call us toll free at 877-884-5010 or email msr@technalign.com.
DW: Pioneer Linux is based on Ubuntu. How does your distribution compare to its more famous parent? In other words, what makes Pioneer Linux a better choice than Ubuntu to somebody who is interested in switching to Linux?
DU: We are actually based on Kubuntu. We have kept much of the Kubuntu logos and names in the distribution because we believe they should get credit for the base of Pioneer. Many other derivatives are based on Kubuntu or Ubuntu, however, you won't see the names in the distributions.
We have taken the base and have added what people were looking for, such as Automatix and other functions. We also package Pioneer in boxed sets so people can actually get support from a retailer or solutions provider.
Automatix allows painless installation of many popular applications on Pioneer Linux. (full image size: 61kB, screen resolution: 706x527 pixels)
DW: Many distributions that were previously based on Debian have moved to "re-base" themselves on Ubuntu instead - we saw this with MEPIS last year, then KANOTIX which has also been contemplating the move recently, and last week it was Linspire/Freespire which announced a partnership with Canonical. What do you think makes Ubuntu such an attractive base for creating custom distributions? Why did you choose Ubuntu and not, say, Fedora?
DU: Some of the main differences appear in the support and commitment made by Canonical to its community and partners. Ubuntu Dapper and Edgy have brought quite a bit to the table. Fedora has issues with speed that affects the yum package management system. It appears that yum drags down the applications it calls and then there is Pirut. A major issue is also accessing RPMs. On the other hand Adept and/or Synaptic make the issue of installing an application simple. Remember, this is a Windows world, although changing, the simpler an application is, the more people will see the benefit and move from Windows.
DW: Pioneer Linux comes in a number of different editions, which I find a little confusing at times. Could you list all the different editions and explain the purpose of each?
DU: In the free community there are several editions available, including Pioneer Basic (which replaced Pioneer Free) that is our desktop, and MigrationSERVER which is an excellent replacement for Microsoft Personal Server. We also have Pioneer Stage Coach coming, which will be a complete workstation and server. Of course a 64-bit workstation is also available, and we plan on 64-bit servers and Stage Coach. Being a Christian, we have provided a Christian edition as well.
In the commercial distributions we break down the products as follows: Pioneer OEM for a new computer or one getting a hardware upgrade. Pioneer Basic which is the same as the OEM which comes with quick start guide and a small manual. Pioneer OEM for a 64-bit system as with the 32-bit OEM and Pioneer Basic 64-bit. Of course, MigrationSERVER is our server offering. Stage Coach is coming soon as well, our combined workstation and server offering.
DW: About the bucking horse, the logo of Pioneer Linux. One of the DistroWatch readers has pointed out in the forum that the image is actually an official, copyrighted logo of the State of Wyoming. Are you aware of this? What does the image represent?
DU: It isn't a copy of the State of Wyoming's logo and only similar because it has a bucking horse. We actually did look at moving the company to Cheyenne, Wyoming at one time. The logo represents the spirit of everyone involved with Linux today. Being on the western slope of Colorado in the Rocky Mountains, we see the impact the pioneers had on the area and the beauty of the region. Running Linux today, as pioneers years ago blazed the way, makes people pioneers in technology, regardless of the distribution they run.
Working with the State of Colorado and beginning to attract other Linux technology companies to the western slope of Colorado maintains the pioneer spirit as well. A Linux incubator will be started soon to assist start-up technology companies. So in effect I believe the pioneer spirit lives in all of us today and each of us are pioneers in the industry. You can visit the incubator pages, which will be formally announced in the next few weeks.
DW: Dianne, thank you very much for your answers and all the best with your company and products!
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Miscellaneous News |
Warly leaves Mandriva, Linspire switches to Ubuntu, Fedora delivers release notes, Debian prepares for D-I RC2, Ulteo and dyne:bolic updates
First, let's get the bad news out of the way. Florent Villard (pictured on the right), a highly experienced Mandriva developer better known as "Warly", has decided to quit his job: "I joined Mandriva in 1999. I was there during the Internet boost, I was there during Chapter 11, and I will be there till the end of next week... It is now time for me to change, to search and learn new things." Warly doesn't give a clear reason for his decision and neither does he hint at his future plans, but many Mandriva users will surely miss him. Read Bye Bye Mandriva for Warly's last blog post as a Mandriva employee.
While on the subject of Mandriva, Adam Williamson has emailed us an important piece of information regarding the Mandriva Linux 2007.1 beta live CDs which started appearing on the mirrors last Friday: "Could you amend your story to tell people that the One ISOs for beta 1 currently on the mirrors should not be used? The Free DVD ISO, code-named 'loolapop', is fine, but the One ISOs, code-named 'doctor', are not the final version, have known issues and shouldn't be used. We will be pushing the final version of the One ISOs out to the mirrors over the weekend or on Monday, prior to the official announcement of the beta."
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Last week's announcement about the technology partnership between Linspire and Canonical was widely reported on many Linux news sites as a major event on the Linux distribution scene. According to the press release, the future versions of both Freespire and Linspire will now be based on Ubuntu instead of Debian and, as announced earlier, Linspire's CNR software repository will also be available to the users of Ubuntu. However, while Linspire's PR department is understandably excited about the deal, the truth is that it will only affect a relatively small percentage of Linux users - the ones who are currently running Freespire and Linspire on their desktops and who wish to remain with these distributions in the future. The remainder of the Linux user base, including the vast majority of Ubuntu users, will barely notice this "partnership" as Ubuntu will continue developing their distribution in the same way as before.
So what's the big deal? Is the fact that Freespire's base is being switched from Debian to Ubuntu really such a huge event as many news sites would like us to believe? Or am I the only one who fails to see the excitement?
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The critical comment in last week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly about the Fedora development team not producing any release notes with their Fedora 7 Test 1 release didn't go down well with some readers. The good news is, however, that the project's developers acknowledged the lack of release notes as a problem and promptly started an internal discussion about the issue. Rahul Sundaram: "Of course with our level of resources doing full fledged releases notes and translation for a test 1 release of a fast moving distribution like Fedora is not easily done. ... However a single page overview or some notes within the announcements itself wouldn't take much time." And the outcome? By the end of last week, the release notes, summarising the main features of Test 1 and containing relevant links, appeared on the project's web site.
Don't say that DistroWatch doesn't have a positive influence on Linux distributions ;-)
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Many Linux users have undoubtedly had a love and hate affair with the RPM package manager over the years. Worshipped as a revolutionary tool back in the years when Slackware was the dominant distribution, it didn't take long before the words "RPM" and "dependency hell" started appearing regularly in the same sentence. In more recent years -- largely thanks to the introduction of many advanced front-ends to RPM -- the utility has once again become accepted by the Linux-using population. But how did RPM start and where is it heading? If you are curious and want to learn more about the venerable package management tool, read Matt Frye's The Story of RPM, as published last week by Red Hat Magazine.
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The second release candidate of the Debian Installer (D-I) for Etch seems to be just around the corner: "We are currently waiting for the 2.6.18-4 kernel to migrate to testing before we can start to also migrate D-I components, and build, upload and release D-I RC2." In the meantime, interested testers are invited to download the daily build images from the project's web site and submit installation reports in the usual format. For more information please read Frans Pop's D-I RC2 -- Call for testing mailing list post.
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Ulteo, a Linux distribution created by the founder of Mandrake Linux Gaël Duval, has sent out an email update highlighting the status of the project: "Since the first public alpha release, the development of Ulteo has improved dramatically: the new UGD daemon is almost ready and can now fetch settings information from a dedicated Ulteo user account page; AppRun is going to be introduced and will provide a way to run many additional applications that are not present in Ulteo base installation; Ulteo now supports language layers for several languages, so you can get Ulteo in your language." The announcement, published during the Southern California Linux Expo in Los Angeles last week, promises a new Ulteo alpha/beta release "in the coming weeks."
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Finally, a link to an interview with Denis "Jaromil" Rojo of the dyne:bolic fame: Denis 'Jaromil' Rojo is an artist and a FOSS hacker. He's popularly known for dyne:bolic, a Live CD distribution that contains several applications for audio and video manipulation. As a programmer, he is an author of several free software applications that present new possibilities for online radios. As a media activist, Jaromil is the author of MuSE - a network audio streaming engine, FreeJ - a tool for real-time video manipulation, and hasciicam, which captures feeds from a TV tuner card and renders them in ASCII. He's also a very strong supporter of the Free Software movement and the founder of Dyne.org, which he calls a free software foundry for digital artisans." Read the full interview with Jaromil at Packt Publishing.
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Released Last Week |
BeleniX 0.5.1 DVD
The BeleniX project has released a DVD edition of its OpenSolaris-based live operating system - complete with Java Development Kit, OpenOffice.org, NetBeans and other extra applications: "A DVD release of BeleniX 0.5.1 is now available! This DVD release includes all of the 0.5.1 live CD and adds Java Development Kit 1.6, OpenOffice.org 2.1, NetBeans 5.5 with Visual Web Pack, C/C++ Pack, Profiler and Glassfish AppServer 9, all of the OpenSolaris Developer and Administration documents available from the OpenSolaris Documentation community and desktop shortcuts for all these." Here is the brief release announcement.
EnGarde Secure Linux 3.0.12
A new stable version of EnGarde Secure Linux has been released: "Guardian Digital is happy to announce the release of EnGarde Secure Community 3.0.12. What's New? A new SELinux policy boolean: httpd_write_content_dir; updated PCI tables and hardware detection system, which allows for much better detection of more recent hardware; several reliability improvements to the Guardian Digital Secure Network Update Agent; new Samba packages; PHP packages rebuilt with --enable-mbstring; several new packages such as libsemanage, Openswan, and Subversion were added; the latest stable versions of MySQL (5.0.33), Apache (2.2.4), BIND (9.3.4)...." More details in the release announcement.
Ubuntu Christian Edition 2.1
Jereme Hancock has announced the availability of Ubuntu Christian Edition 2.1: "We are pleased to announce the release of Ubuntu CE v2.1 (Edgy). The main focus of this release was to enhance the DansGuardian GUI. There have been many user requests for a more polished DansGuardian GUI with the ability to easily disable the filtering. With this release we have accomplished just that. There have also been some new program additions. This release includes the BibleMemorizer program which uses the Sword modules that come with GnomeSword." Read the rest of the release announcement for further details.
FreeSBIE 2.0.1
Matteo Riondato has announced the release of a bug-fix version of FreeSBIE 2: "You may remember that FreeSBIE 2.0 was released on January 15th. It turned out it had some annoying bugs, one of which was especially serious, as it prevented USB mice from working. This fact led us, the FreeSBIE staff, to develop a bug-fix release, 2.0.1. All the bugs that have been pointed out were solved and this release has been more thoroughly tested, to offer a better FreeSBIE experience to our users. FreeSBIE 2.0.1-RELEASE (code name Black Mamba) is based on FreeBSD 6.2-RELEASE, both in terms of sources and packages. It contains more than 450 pieces and 1.3 GB of software, all in a single CD-ROM." Here is the full release announcement.
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Development and unannounced releases
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Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
Summary of expected upcoming releases
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DistroWatch.com News |
RSS feed for DistroWatch Weekly
Several readers have recently asked for an RSS feed exclusively linking to DistroWatch Weekly issues. The good news is that one of our readers, Iain Cheyne, has done the work and you can now subscribe to the DistroWatch Weekly RSS feed. Here is the link: http://feed43.com/distrowatch-weekly.xml.
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New distributions added to waiting list
- Aegis Linux. Aegis Linux is a PCLinuxOS-based distribution focusing on the small to medium size business user, or the professional who wants a desktop or server that is reliable, easy to use, secure, and open. Two Aegis Linux editions are planned: Aegis Desktop and Aegis Server.
- Clonezilla Live. Clonezilla Live is a Debian-based specialist live CD with software that enables users to clone the content of hard disks.
- Vyatta is a Linux-based router and firewall offering a free community edition and two commercial editions with support.
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DistroWatch database summary
And this concludes our latest issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 19 February 2007. Until then,
Ladislav Bodnar
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Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Where are the SLES/SLED clones? (by U23 on 2007-02-12 09:16:23 GMT from United States)
I'm really surprised that it's been 7 months since SLES/SLED 10 was released and there aren't any clones with free updates yet (like CentOS for RHEL). Or do any exist and I've missed them? I doubt I'm the only person who would want a distro like that.
2 • SLES/SLED clones (by Marcel on 2007-02-12 10:46:43 GMT from Netherlands)
It would be nice to see a OpenSuse based distro as well. Completely configured with all the multimedia-codecs and dvd-support. It always takes a lot of time to configure this. I am sure there is a market for it.
3 • Pioneer Linux Basic free CD images (by lakkilinux on 2007-02-12 10:56:21 GMT from Pakistan)
Hi Ladislav Bodnar,
Read this in interview with Dianne Ursini ,CEO of Technalign, Inc that " DW: Pioneer Linux is a commercial distribution - you give away free CD images for non-commercial use" how can I contact Technalign for a free cd as I am on dial up and downloading a distro image is difficult for me.
thanks
4 • OpenSUSE (by Johannes Eva on 2007-02-12 11:16:50 GMT from Spain)
It's a indeed very sad that no "revolution" seems to be preparing in the Linux / Open Source world. Where are the perescients, visionnaries, genius? (If you don't see what I mean, just try Microsoft Office 2007 and ask yourself if we will see such type of great changes in the next years in the Open Source world...) No new version of OpenSUSE in view? Only 10.3 ???
5 • Consolidation in the Linux business (by Mark South on 2007-02-12 11:21:09 GMT from Switzerland)
Ladislav, the announcement about Canonical and Freespire may not be interesting, but it is significant, in that it indicates that the long-expected consolidation of the commercial Linux market is getting underway. This is interesting if one has an interest in a second-tier Linux distro because there is a good chance that someone is eyeing it for its technology...there are whispers about some of those distros already, but we'll have to wait and see.
Best wishes to the DWW team and the loyal readership :-) Mark
6 • Buntuspire (by Caraibes on 2007-02-12 11:32:00 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Well, that *Buntu & *Spire deal means a lot for new users, or even new installs :
-1 at first, when *Buntu started, Warty, Hoary, Breezy... One had to read the unofficial Ubuntu guide to tweak the system for the codecs, and all the non-free goodies...
-2 Then came Automatix, which made new installs faster and easier...
-3 Now there's gonna be that CNR thing, which might be just the easier tool around to perform the easiest and fastest install at all !
-4 And, now that I think of it, I don't really plan to use *Spire, but I'll be happy to use either *Buntu or Fedora, and take advantage of that CNR stuff to get all the non-free goodies...
Conclusion, if CNR is a RELIABLE tool, well done and documented, who kind of supersize Automatix, that sounds good to me, and yes, it is a major news for the Linux Comunity at large...
PS : A personal message to Kevin Carmony : -why not include Slackware, CentOS and Mandriva in the list of CNR compatible distros ??????
7 • #5 - consolidation (by rjm on 2007-02-12 12:03:54 GMT from United States)
i'm in agreement here. how many other distro's are now based on ubuntu? consolidation is a way to mainstream markets and a way to get more converts.
thanks again for another monday morning.
8 • ..SLES/SLED clones (by pp on 2007-02-12 12:29:37 GMT from United Kingdom)
I agree with #1 and #2. I've been looking for clones. Another SUSE fork that I'd love to see would be a stripped down 1-cd openSUSE with multimedia+codecs. I know SUPER and SLICK were projects that tried to make smaller, faster SUSE, but apparently the projects are more or less dead..
9 • SLES/SLED clones (by ruisim on 2007-02-12 12:43:56 GMT from Portugal)
it exists in www.caixamagica.pt (http://comunidade.caixamagica.pt/index.php?article=3205&visual=1)
10 • RE: A personal message to Kevin Carmony (by Béranger on 2007-02-12 13:17:08 GMT from Romania)
> why not include Slackware, CentOS and Mandriva in the list of CNR compatible distros ??????
A Slackware user who uses CNR is not a Slackware user anymore.
11 • RE #5: Consolidation in the Linux business (by Anonymous on 2007-02-12 13:23:25 GMT from Germany)
>>Consolidation in the Linux business (by Mark South on 2007-02-12 11:21:09 GMT from Switzerland) Ladislav, the announcement about Canonical and Freespire may not be interesting, but it is significant, in that it indicates that the long-expected consolidation of the commercial Linux market is getting underway.<<
In how far is the move of former Debian-based distributions to being Ubuntu-based -- Ubuntu, BTW, is just another Debian-based distribution -- increasing consolidation? I really don't get this idea but it is all over the place. Consider this:
There are 3 distributions, A, B, and C. At T1, B and C are based on A. At T2, B is based on A and C is based on B. How is this increasing consolidation?
Thus i agree with the site maintainer, i fail to see the significance of the moves of Mepis, Linspire, etc. besides making them redundant.
12 • Re: #3 (by linbetwin on 2007-02-12 14:14:54 GMT from Romania)
@ lakkilinux: From what I can understand, Technalign provides ISO images for free download. They do not send free CDs, If you want CDs to be sent free of charge to you, try http://shipit.ubuntu.com/. I hope this helps
13 • Caixamagica? (by SCD on 2007-02-12 14:23:41 GMT from Portugal)
Ruisim, with all due respect, rpm compatibility with a 3 year-old product (suse 9.2) is not what people are looking for. Caixamagica is not compatible with the opensuse codebase.
14 • Consolidation (by ex-man on 2007-02-12 14:29:36 GMT from United States)
Consolidation means one of the distros disappears. Consolidation is one of those big words journalists like to use to spice up their stories. I think that some people thought CNR would replace Ubuntu's repositories. If anything, it's more duplication, because there is now an additional way to install software on Ubuntu. Wouldn't it be useful to think before writing?
15 • Re #5 (by whitt madden on 2007-02-12 14:36:18 GMT from United States)
I think that for one, this consolidation means that linux may be easier to support in the eyes of the vendors, if the majority uses the same install base. I think the vendor is the key to getting these companies to support linux. Whether a person likes Ubuntu or not, they are obviously doing something right, and their userbase and community shows it. Plus CNR is a great tool for home users who want something, they can just click and install, without having to read through wiki pages, and copy and paste. I think if more weight was put behind CNR, it could be considered a defacto standard for install apps in linux.
16 • Warly's departure (by Anonymous on 2007-02-12 14:38:22 GMT from France)
I'm really sad of his departure. Well, good luck to him and thanks for the hard work!
17 • No subject (by spliff on 2007-02-12 14:38:54 GMT from United States)
Thanks distrowatch for influencing Fedora to make release notes explaining the obvious. :/
18 • Debian installer (by Theodore Dreiser on 2007-02-12 15:24:52 GMT from United States)
I have'nt messed with debian in about a year, so tell me, does it still have that cryptic,antiquated installer that shows utter disdain for any new Linux user coming over from Windows ?
19 • OpenSUSE Fork (by justin whitaker on 2007-02-12 15:25:29 GMT from United States)
I would be interested in getting a fork off the ground. The idea that you guys are talking about, a 1 CD, fully multimedia stacked distro would be rocking....maybe an installable LiveCD as well?
20 • Partnership between Linspire and Canonical (by S3Indiana on 2007-02-12 15:31:18 GMT from United States)
This is significant, along with the availability of CNR for more and more distributions (BTW yes Mandriva's on the list - http://forum.cnr.com/showthread.php?p=68#post68), in that Linux will be usable for a wider audience. Just returned from SCALE (http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale5x/) and many are convinced that this is a great direction for all concerned. Ultimate goal is to have Linux preinstalled on machines, providing a software delivery system that the end-user will interact with (sorry the majority of the world won't feel comfortable with apt). Moving on to the partnership there are millions of people running ubuntu (of which I'm thankful for the viral nature being provided by Canonical through distributing CD's), but realistically the vast majority don't care what OS they're running (or even know it's ubuntu). Providing these users with a software delivery and management application that also allows access to commercial products (think proprietary codecs, commercial versions of products like Sun's StarOffice or emulation/virtualization opportunities like CrossOver Office, Cedega and Parallels) requiring e-commerce to compete the transaction. To meet the ultimate goal, the Tier 1 OEM's need to be convinced there's a market, and the viral nature of distributing CD's, capability of installing any software (open source or commercial) through the same tool and the move of major vendors (think Adobe, Intuit, etc.) into that community (they won't have to develop and negotiate licensing agreements with multiple Linux distributions) creating that market making Linux a viable alternative for preinstalling on millions of machines. Sorry you didn't comprehend the other side of the partnership...
21 • RE: Debian installer (by happy-go-lucky on 2007-02-12 16:07:20 GMT from Finland)
Friend, you've been obviously living under a rock for the past few years. ;-)
Let me guide you to the light of day. Here is a screenshot tour that should give you the idea of the current Debian-Installer:
http://www.debianadmin.com/debian-etch-beta3-graphical-mode-installation-with-screenshots.html
22 • Warly's departure (by tzerkit on 2007-02-12 16:11:49 GMT from United States)
If anyone needed any more of an indication that Mandriva is on the downslope, Warly's leaving should be it. I've been a loyal purchaser & user since mandrake 9.2. and club member ever since. I've put my money where my mouth is but with this announcement and the horrendous support of late I think it's time to move on. Sad...
23 • Pioneer Linux (by rdp on 2007-02-12 16:15:17 GMT from United States)
"DW: Pioneer Linux is a commercial distribution - you give away free CD images for non-commercial use, but any commercial activity requires a license."
Since the free version of Pioneer is licensed under the GPL (according to their website), why is a license required for commercial use? I don't think the GPL differentiates between commercial vs non-commercial use.
24 • ridiculous (by neighborlee on 2007-02-12 16:29:01 GMT from United States)
if you thinnk freespire and linspire are the only ones gaining from the new merger, then you haven't been paying much attention ;)
CNR, clearly the most efficient and easiest way to add software, look at reviews, create aisles, get needed codecs , see developers and what they are working on and what components..and if you wish proprietary software is a landmark decision for the major distros. You dont think that opensuse, fedora, debian and ubuntu coming onboard is a major acceptance of an obvoiusly helpful technology to give linux more traction in the market ???
I guess you have to be a l33t minded person to not get the fact that linux has LONG since needed something to unite the 100+ some factions into one, so that vendors not only see that they can write once and not have to support 1000 times, but can also see that linux isn't some joke but a serious free OSS system that cares about its users, not just their geeky status in the community.
so yes get off your high horse and realize there is something more at work here than just a merger...if linux doesn't get standardization for installing software , and a boat load of other things, its going to remain a joke amoung the professional community and that means we would continue to have shabby vendor support, thus keeping its userbase ( except those most elite that really do love the CLI and 'tinkering' ) in the dark with a market dominated by companies that know what 'most' people want, and deliver it.
cu around nl
25 • Re: #15 (by smallfish on 2007-02-12 16:34:36 GMT from Germany)
CNR is a great tool for home users who want something, they can just click and install, without having to read through wiki pages, and copy and paste. I think if more weight was put behind CNR, it could be considered a defacto standard for install apps in linux.
AFAIK, this CNR is just an additional frontend to the existing package management systems. It uses the supported native package managers and each distro's own package archives for doing the actual installation. CNR doesn't add any new technology for packaging software or making the existing packages installable between different distros or different package managers. But, perhaps more importantly, CNR is an online web store where people can purchase commercial closed-source and license-restricted software products legally.
IMHO, the current package manager frontends are quite easy to use and the proper place for such web stores would be among other online web stores -- in the Internet. If distros don't guide their users to any particular web store, this will encourage healthy competition which usually brings the prices down and makes the products more affordable to customers. I certainly won't endorse the idea that we should make CNR a defacto standard for installing apps in Linux -- this would give the CNR web store almost a monopoly-like status in selling Linux-compatible commercial products.
In fact, I don't quite understand why Ubuntu wants to integrate their package management system with a client technology for the kind of web store that sells closed-source products. I thought Ubuntu had a philosophy of supporting open source software??? And if Ubuntu wants to encourage their users to buy closed-source products, then surely they could open their own web store for this purpose.
26 • Re: Pioneer Linux (by Ariszló on 2007-02-12 16:36:15 GMT from Hungary)
Non-commercial use: no support. Commercial use: yes support. GPL allows both.
27 • 20, 15 (by Anonymous on 2007-02-12 16:37:12 GMT from United States)
> Whether a person likes Ubuntu or not, they are obviously doing something right, and their userbase and community shows it.
Hmmm...you didn't provide a definition of "doing something right". I assume you mean that a lot of people use Ubuntu, so this in some sense "proves" that Ubuntu is the best distro.
Ubuntu is a customized version of Debian. They don't do the programming for basically anything that's open source. Ubuntu's large number of users means Debian is doing something right (by your metric), and it means the community of open source developers is doing something right (by your metric), and it means Ubuntu is good at providing the final 0.1% of polish. Ubuntu appeals to new users migrating from Windows. However, those users are not more valuable than the guy who has used Linux since 1995, even though a new user increases Linux's market share.
(a) Only a moron cannot install codecs. It's VERY simple. (b) If you are selling preinstalled Linux, the codecs will be preinstalled as well. I should rejoice that we have an easier way to install proprietary stuff on Linux? If you care about availability of free software (that's what this is all about, right, or are you only interested in a lower-priced Windows clone) this announcement means nothing.
I recommend that you not make blanket statements about how we should all rejoice at everything Kevin Carmony does. He's making it easier for morons to install proprietary items in Linux. Big deal. Availability of free software is what matters to me, not a large number of non-Microsoft computer users.
28 • Re: 23 • Pioneer Linux (by hughesjr on 2007-02-12 16:44:38 GMT from United States)
"All Pioneer products come in two flavors - Free for download and also with full support. Both versions are live CDs and allow you to learn and play before you install. The difference between the two products is free does not come with support and is only supported by the community via the forums and knowledge base. The paid version comes with 3 years of upgrade protection as well as installation assistance and basic support services via a Technalign support representative. The free version is licensed under the GPL, and Technalign hopes one day to become become the Pioneers of Free and Open Source software. The free versions are NOT to be sold for profit and only to be given away."
SO ... the real distinction is selling "Pioneer Linux" and if you want support. I imagine that you could "Rebuild it" and sell that ... calling it something else. You could also install and use the "Free Version" as you saw fit for your own use.
(at least that is how I read it)
29 • kilgoretrout (by Re: 27 on 2007-02-12 16:53:22 GMT from United States)
I respect your philosophical position re free software but I disagree with the contention that the number of non-MS users doesn't matter. I think it matters very much. When the number of linux users goes up, hardare support will also go up along with increased pressure for open source drivers. Until you have the numbers, no one will pay attention to you. As long as were stuck at 2 to 3% of desktop users, the amount of pressure we can put on nvidia, ati, wifi card manufacturers, etc, for open source drivers is limited.
30 • debianinstaller (by Anonymous on 2007-02-12 16:55:12 GMT from Germany)
debianinstaller makes during install a list of installed os's in grub. i want to know how i can renew automatic with one command this list after install new os s??? or only the installcd can do this in this comfortable way?? i would like to use it after install too.
31 • 29 (by Anonymous on 2007-02-12 17:08:54 GMT from United States)
I fully understand that argument. Eric Raymond has a lot of influence. The problem is that the number of non-MS users doesn't mean anything, the number of Linux users doesn't mean anything, it's the number of free software users who will *only* use free software that means something as far as getting open drivers. Not one of the "Kevin Carmony types" falls into that classification.
Alternatively, think of it like this. Windows has many users, but there are not many open drivers for Windows. The choice of OS doesn't make any difference, it's a matter of whether users demand open drivers AND are willing to put that into action. Demanding open drivers with no punishment is meaningless. These demands could also be made by Windows users.
I'm not opposed to proprietary software on Linux. An increase in the number of Linux users will lead to more Linux drivers and codecs. It just doesn't help those of us who want the convenience and capabilities of free software. Proprietary Linux will cause the price of Windows to fall, but that's about it.
32 • 30 (by Anonymous on 2007-02-12 17:11:46 GMT from United States)
I believe you want the Debian rescue mode. If Etch is installed on your system, insert the CD, type rescuegui at the prompt, and eventually you should have the opportunity reinstall grub. It will list all OSes. I don't know if it's possible to reinstall Debian in rescue mode, but if it asks, don't install anything.
33 • Caixamagica? (by Ruisim on 2007-02-12 17:26:23 GMT from Portugal)
SCD, the CM11(current) is suse 10.1 compare packages and see http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=novell(sled10) http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=suse(10.1) http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=caixamagica (11)
34 • I'm thinking before writing (by Randall Cooper on 2007-02-12 17:32:17 GMT from Italy)
I'm thinking that it is unnecessary to insult another poster because of their thoughts. I'm thinking that the term consolidation could mean that distributions are consolidating in terms of the base distro upon which they will be based. I'm thinking that CNR is not necessarily a duplication of the Ubuntu repositories (it may augment the number of programs offered, it may provide more current versions of programs that are offered by Ubuntu, etc.). I'm thinking that for those (K)Ubuntu users (Linspire is KDE based) who find installation of multimedia programs difficult, the CNR installation process may be easier to use than Adept.
35 • Ubuntu-CNR (by Sam Avery-Quinn on 2007-02-12 17:32:22 GMT from United States)
I think for most of us there's a loud resounding yawn about Linspire basing its flagging linux product(s) on Ubuntu rather than Debian. I'm almost wondering if a Debian derivative distro moving from Debian repositories to Ubuntu repositories is a hallmark of a dying distro (ala Mepis.. when is that new flashy version coming down the pipeline anyway?).
For linux package management on the desktop in general, however, I agree with above posts that if CNR doesn't prove buggy as it supports in the future (???) non-debian platforms, it could provide a good, unified, avenue for easy software installation (even easier than synaptic) -- especially for RPM-based distros.
36 • Re #15 (by reyfer on 2007-02-12 17:39:47 GMT from Venezuela)
"Plus CNR is a great tool for home users who want something, they can just click and install, without having to read through wiki pages, and copy and paste."
From that statement, I take it you have never tried a Debian based distro, right? Ever heard of Synaptic?
37 • Distros *bashing* (by IMQ on 2007-02-12 17:43:33 GMT from United States)
I never failed to amaze me that people continue the distro-bashing. Every week it seems.
We already know that there is no such thing as perfect *whatsoever* because perfection is *subjective*. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
So, instead of distro-bashing, could we be civilized and stop this nonsense activity from this day forward?
Can we do that and focus the discussion purely on the technicality and useability, creativity, innovation, etc. of the distros themselves?
38 • RE 36 (by abc on 2007-02-12 17:56:34 GMT from United States)
#36: You overestimate the competency of novice users.
39 • RE: Ubuntu and Pioneer (by Joe on 2007-02-12 17:59:26 GMT from Netherlands)
I read that Pioneer is teaming up with Automatix. That's the same Automatix that was written for Ubuntu and then shunned by the developers because it causes problems during upgrade. CNR will help Joe Sixpack install software, but anyone who bothers to RTFM will surely know that apt-get is a simple and effective way to install software.
What I find so interesting is that it's the Debian documentation that the Ubuntu users should read because the Ubuntu documentation is mostly about how to use a browser and how to e-mail. Really basic stuff that is pretty self explanitory.
40 • Re: Randall Cooper (by ex-man on 2007-02-12 18:05:16 GMT from United States)
I wrote post 14. I apologize if anyone thought I was criticizing posters to this website. I was criticizing the journalists for popular news outlets who write without knowing what they are talking about, or more accurately, parrot a bunch of hype.
It is useful to have a variety of views expressed here and it is inappropriate to insult someone for having a different opinion. It is equally important, and this is what I'm getting at, for major news outlets to report things accurately. We can leave insults for the trolls who write that Windows is perfect and Linux requires compiling software before installing.
41 • 37 (by ex-man on 2007-02-12 18:11:08 GMT from United States)
IMQ: I wish we could live in that kind of world. I wish we could live in a world where Ubuntu users would build up their distro by comparing it with Windows rather than simply asserting "Ubuntu is superior for everything" compared against all other Linux distros. I also wish we could live in a world without the ---- Ubuntu t-shirts. What we see here is just an extension of the rest of the Linux world.
42 • clicking and cloning (by dbrion on 2007-02-12 18:15:45 GMT from France)
Suupose a tax collector wants to install Linux for himself and all of his colleagues ( I choose a tax collector because they can manage a lot of money, and they can touch lots of pple, which is interesting for spreading) on some objective basis. Once he has a good Linux for his professional tasks ( I do not think he needs musics and 3D eye candy), he will have to reproduce it and , say, 50 other Pcs. If mouse clicks are not converted into some kind of bash scripts, it will be a "creative and innovating" task. I feel IMvHO that clonezilla can be another interesting solution. It might also interest individuals : instead of (clicking / custing and patting/ compiling things) one has not the time/taste to understand (which gives its full meaning to Open Source), one could take disk images with as little manual work as possible.
43 • RE: 27 (by Nybronx on 2007-02-12 18:29:18 GMT from United States)
Well this "moron" appreciates an easier way of doing anything that would just work when I wanted it to. If CNR (IMHO is just ok--prefer synaptic) is going to do that AMEN brother. I have installed Vista for some family members OMG what a joke. I can safely say that it is now easier to install any number of lnux distros, and get all the eye candy-bells-whistles than this piece of cxxp. Adoption of CNR is a time saver. Which I would think is a plus for some, I certainly find it so. The more "morons" that move away form M$ the better. The availability of free software is safe in the NIX community. I see that all over this Internet thingie. And that makes me happy--PCLOS RULES
44 • re: post #39 (by neighboree on 2007-02-12 18:30:09 GMT from United States)
your RTFM comment is irrelevant, rude and not wanted in a civil community that knows full well that without a consistency, easy to use, attractive 'one click' UI for installling apps ( one that does not require the CLI btw), that linux is doomed to be a geek OS and vendors wont pay us much attention nor should they..if that is fine with you then great, but dont push this RTFM nonsense on users that are proud to us a free OS that has amazing OSS and is aiming to make this easier for new people, yet retain advanced features for those who want them. If you dont like the idea of helping new people then that is your problem, but dont go trying to spawn your evil RTFM rhetoric around here and not expect to be called on it.
cu around nl
45 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-02-12 18:33:12 GMT from United States)
"One of the DistroWatch readers has pointed out in the forum that the image is actually an official, copyrighted logo of the State of Wyoming."
That reader must be an idiot or blind, since the Pioneer logo obviously isn't the same as http://soswy.state.wy.us/bucking/bh&r.gif
46 • *spire (by Dean Linkous on 2007-02-12 18:36:45 GMT from United States)
So what's the big deal? Is the fact that Freespire's base is being switched from Debian to Ubuntu really such a huge event as many news sites would like us to believe? Or am I the only one who fails to see the excitement?
EVERYTHING *spire does is the epitome of excitement. Anything they do is newsworthy and to be trumpted to the highest of the heavens. Especially if your site gets a little funding from the *spire boys.
If someone does not have the skills needed to operate synaptic then please have them step away from the computer - in the interest of everyones safety. :)
47 • "Basic Stuff" vs Synaptic vs apt-get (by Sam Avery-Quinn on 2007-02-12 18:58:54 GMT from United States)
I'm not sure the majority of computer users out there, chained to Windows, would ever consider command-line interface apt-get and apt-cache "a simple and effective way to install software." For experienced users, or users who would take time to read the manual, yes, apt-get is relatively easy. But in a market where Microsoft is redesigning user interfaces to "simplify" the user's experience, a command line interface can't grow market share for an OS.
I think in a market where users will be most attracted to an OS that just works for them, we should be aware many new desktop linux users will be wanting their linux distro to just work. They'll be transitioning from OSes where software installs with a single click and a wizard. No dependency hell, no missing libraries, no apt-cache search such-and-such. Either the install works or it doesn't. That's what they're leaving behind. There's quite a number of missing steps on the linux ladder between that one click installation and synaptic and apt-get.
If CNR provides nothing better than a wiki-ized version of synaptic, a kind of download.com for Linux, I think that would be a significant achievement.
48 • 47 (by Anonymous on 2007-02-12 19:06:28 GMT from United States)
WTF? Have you used a Linux distro since 2000? Command line? Huh?
We have synaptic, yum, yast, ... and if you use Debian-based distros like Ubuntu, you don't have those problems.
WTF?!!?
49 • Re: 48 (by Sam Avery-Quinn on 2007-02-12 19:28:49 GMT from United States)
If you think Yast (loved it in suse 10.1) yum and synaptic provide problem free and easy installation for a new linux user or the majority of computer users in the world, I can see why linux has such a small market share.
Don't believe me? Try it out. Find a friend at work or school who confesses to using their computer to "only check email, surf the web, write a letter, and play iTunes." Set them free on synaptic and wait for the questions to start peppering you. Or better yet, give them openSuse 10.1 and tell them to try installing anything. I bet you'll find what you take for granted as "easy" really isn't so easy for the average user.
50 • 49 (by Anonymous on 2007-02-12 19:56:52 GMT from United States)
It's definitely NOT command line.
I don't know or care about opensuse. It has a graphical package manager.
Take a new computer user and turn them loose on Windows and wait for the questions. When I went from Windows to Ubuntu, I figured out Synaptic by myself with no difficulty. Synaptic might be imperfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than the package manager that doesn't come with Windows. Windows is the equivalent of downloading a file and running gdebi, just more complicated because you can mess up your system because Windows doesn't automatically check if dependencies are satisfied.
And as for your example of playing iTunes, try to get them running gnome in Windows. iTunes doesn't exist for Linux. It won't exist when using CNR. Everything else you mention is installed by default in Ubuntu, so it is once again easier than Windows.
CNR might be made easier, but your original post was crazy. Saying we have dependency problems and have to use the command line is FUD that we don't need. That type of blatant lie in an attempt to boost CNR's status is not something we need, and not something I will let you say without a challenge. Could software installation be easier? Obviously. But that doesn't give you the right to post a bunch of lies that have the potential to confuse new users.
51 • RE 48, 50: The mouses' brains.... (by dbrion on 2007-02-12 20:16:25 GMT from France)
"running gnome in Windows" : See "http://cygnome.sourceforge.net/" for the inexistence of gnome on MICROSOFT WINDOWS. (I knew for KDE, and I did some googling with a *keyboard* : is this outfashioned CLI?). I switched to Linux in 2001 a(before, it would have been a waste of time) . The computer I used was a distant connection, the terminal supporting X. I was not foolish enough to use another thing than CLI. By the way, it led to reproducible results.... I often noticed that mouse cliclickling led to reproducible bugs, hard to correct (no video recordings....). I still *feel* the freedom of prefairing well designed character installers... If you want to install linux for many computers, the only solution is with images * as for MS WINDOWS*
52 • BREAKING NEWS (by linbetwin on 2007-02-12 20:21:08 GMT from Romania)
After the news last week that Freespire and Linspire are going to be based on Ubuntu, Mark Shuttleweary announced today that Ubuntu will no longer drink from the Debian well. "We built our distribution on Debian because it was the best distro back then and Ubuntu has become simply the best distribution in the world. But now that Freespire is going to be based on the best distribution in the world, we're not going to let them steal the spotlight. Ubuntu is going to be based on Freespire and we're going to let them do the hard work." Mr. Worthashot also said that, since Ubuntu is going to become just a brown remaster of Freespire, Canonical will let the developers it poached from Debian go back to getting Etch ready for release next January. This incensing remark started a furious debate within the Debian community. Some members have even proposed basing Debian on DSL in order to have more frequent and better managed releases.
The Gentoo project also announced that their distribution will be based on Ubuntu: "We'll just take their source packages and slap them onto a LiveCD. You put it in the drive, you let 'er rip for 3-4 days, you spend a couple more days compiling codecs and all the goodies and you'll get an Ubuntu install by the time we release the new version." This attracted the attention of the Fedora developers, who invited their Gentoo colleagues to base their distribution on Fedora, provided they write release notes for test releases.
In related news, Mandriva has decided to reduce operating costs by basing their distribution on either PCLinuxOS or Ulteo, whichever realeases first.
http://ricaradu.blogspot.com/
53 • re 52 Breaking News (by Anonymous on 2007-02-12 20:47:36 GMT from Canada)
Maybe Debian should just base itself on Ubuntu and skip ahead in its development cycle. This would also automatically put all Debian-based distros on the same footing.
54 • Re:28 • Pioneer Linux (by rdp on 2007-02-12 20:55:47 GMT from United States)
"SO ... the real distinction is selling "Pioneer Linux" and if you want support. I imagine that you could "Rebuild it" and sell that ... calling it something else. You could also install and use the "Free Version" as you saw fit for your own use."
If Pioneer Linux is indeed licensed under the GPL, I can resell Pioneer Linux as is, if I choose. There is no need to rebuild. The GPL gives me the freedom to use, sell, modify, distribute, etc. as long as I make the source code available.
55 • CNR, consolidation, etc.... (by John on 2007-02-12 21:10:53 GMT from United States)
I am just tired of the Linux 'Wars!' Whether we agree with any given distro, their reasons for exsisting, the way they do their business, or the systems that they use....... Everyone is involved with Linux because there is freedom and a vibrant community! I believe anyone would be hard pressed to find anyone within the Linux 'world' that would like to see anything but freedom. And freedom means building your system to the best of your vision to meet the desires and requirements of your individual community. If CNR offers what your given community wants, then good job! If your users prefer Synaptic or YUM or Portage or whatever, then give them the best you can! And as far as distro bases..... If the distro you are currently based on is not working for the vision your community has then either work to help it change or change your base. But do the best you can for your community. And stay true to your vision! The Linux community as a whole will do just fine. The only thing that can break the Linux community is inflexability and infighting not CNR or what distro base you use, or even compromise on the non-essentials of the freedom that Linux is about.
56 • RE: 54 (by h3rman on 2007-02-12 23:09:07 GMT from Netherlands)
>"If Pioneer Linux is indeed licensed under the GPL, I can resell Pioneer Linux as is, if I choose. There is no need to rebuild. The GPL gives me the freedom to use, sell, modify, distribute, etc. as long as I make the source code available."
You don't understand the GPL, I think. You can't just resell a Linux distribution without removing trademarks and stuff like that. One of the reasons you would have to rebuild. Have a good time. ;)
57 • Who's based on what? (by Sid Webb on 2007-02-12 23:58:22 GMT from United States)
This whole mess of A is based on B and C is Based on ??? is confusing and stupid. Who the hell is the source, if everyone is based on someone else? Is there a distro out there that is NOT based on someone else?
This sounds like Abbot and Costello's famous "Who's on First?" routine.
58 • RE:57 (by JAG on 2007-02-13 00:03:18 GMT from United States)
Let me help you out. B & C are both ultimately based on A (probably Debian).
59 • RE: Pioneer Linux Basic free CD images (by Michael on 2007-02-13 00:37:37 GMT from United States)
lakkilinux,
http://forums.tapioneer.com/index.php
Drop us a post and I am sure we can mail you a CD (even If I have to do it myself).
60 • Linspire based on Ubuntu (by rexbinary on 2007-02-13 01:53:25 GMT from United States)
So one of the few versions of Linux that has actually been preinstalled on retail computers, and has licenced software such as a DVD player that no other distros I know of have, is now based on one of the most popular Linux distros available, Ubuntu.
Yes I think that could easily be considered a 'big deal'. :)
61 • Re: [27] What's great about CNR... (by Bryan on 2007-02-13 02:16:51 GMT from China)
... is that it's a way to acquire commercial Linux software using only one interface. How many commercial Linux software is available through apt-get, hmmm?
Additionally, CNR can be an avenue to acquire codecs legally, and again, using a single interface. How many Linux users (especially from the US) do you think have installed libdvd and other proprietary codecs legally?
62 • Re: 56 (by rdp on 2007-02-13 03:49:19 GMT from United States)
h3rman,
I think you are incorrect. Reread the GPL and you will see that software licensed under the GPL can be redistributed with or without change for free or profit. Freedom, not free beer.
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
63 • Re:61 (by lunixfanboy on 2007-02-13 04:36:38 GMT from United States)
And just WHO is going to package these commercial items for the various distros that every seems to think will jump feet first onto the CNR bandwagon? According to all the pretty pictures that Carmony brought with him, CNR sits on TOP of the native package management software your distro of choice uses, so to get a product XYZ for Fedora, there would have to be an XYZ.rpm, and for Ubuntu an XYZ.deb. Since CNR is merely a clearing house for things, and currently is .deb only (when they start mirroring the official repos of the various other distros they will have .rpms) WHO does the packaging for folks if NOT the commercial people, and so...
64 • Re: 62 (by Ariszló on 2007-02-13 07:07:16 GMT from Hungary)
Yes, but GPL'd software may be bundled with proprietary artwork, including logos, wallpapers, etc. and you may only redistribute the GPL'd components, so you need to at least remaster the isos.
65 • Re 55 I am just tired of the Linux 'Wars! (by Bartje on 2007-02-13 08:26:12 GMT from Netherlands)
I agree !! I'm just a "noob" running linux and XP for about 2 years now. I like Linux but I get a little bit frustrated and confused by the distro bashing and sometimes negative oppinions on a certain distro. If we want that Linux will get more users than this is not the way to do it. I am still not sure if I want to use only Linux because of this IMO negative attitude.
66 • Re: 65 (by h3rman on 2007-02-13 11:55:35 GMT from Netherlands)
>"I agree !! I'm just a "noob" running linux and XP for about 2 years now. I like Linux but I get a little bit frustrated and confused by the distro bashing and sometimes negative oppinions on a certain distro."
I can imagine that. But nobody forces you to be on forums and the like where people bash other distros. You can use Linux/FLOSS for years without having to discuss the fact that you use that and what distro, etc. The occasional problem that a Linux user list or forum will solve for you, if you post a question somewhere, will be highly unlikely to end up in a distro bashing event. At least, not if you avoid the wrong places.
Apart form that, constructive criticism and free speech is a good thing in itself. There's nothing wrong with debate. If a certain distribution messed things up, I don't see what's wrong criticising that. If people dislike the MS/Novell deal, it's their right to state they will avoid Suse. If they think Ubuntu is leaning too far in the blob direction, they can criticise it. And if Fedora is perceived as hypocritical for shipping "crippled" (i.e., no proprietary codecs whatsoever) multimedia apps but then coming up with the Codec Buddy, it is legitimate to claim and argue that.
And you are free to ignore these comments, or to react to them, or to not visit the places where such opinions are voiced in the first place. For some people, it's religion. For others, it's entertainment. Either way, a distro (what it comes down to) is just a collection of software, a few icons and logo's, and the way it's packaged. That's all. Pick one you like and enjoy it.
67 • Distro Bashing (by Joe on 2007-02-13 14:36:52 GMT from Netherlands)
I wrote #39, and I want to apologize for the RTFM comment. I agree that whatever service makes the user base of a distribution happy is good.
That reaction comes from people answering the same questions over and over. If people would take the time and read a little before asking their questions, it would make life easier for everyone.
The fact that there are hundreds of distributions is proof that different goals appeal to different people. It makes little difference which distro someone runs, as long as the user base increases it is good for the entire community.
Choose whichever version of Linux or BSD you thinks is best for you.
68 • Re: 64 Pioneer Linux (by rdp on 2007-02-13 14:41:12 GMT from United States)
You are absolutely correct. Based on the language on their website, I am assuming Pioneer (as a whole) is released under the GPL. I have not downloaded the distribution and reviewed the licensing. However, I have requested how I may obtain the GPL'd portion of their source code, and never received a response.
69 • Distrowatch (by Max on 2007-02-13 15:09:42 GMT from Australia)
I don't wanna sound like a dickhead, but is this newsletter getting really boring or is it just me? I can't really remember the last time I had a good time reading this thing.... The last 3 months or so have just gone downhill... Again, I am not being a dick, I just feel sad I come here every week and it's all always so boring... Or maybe I am the one that has changed... Does anyone feel like that? I remember the time when I looked forward to reading and commenting here, now I just don't really care....
70 • CNR (by octathlon on 2007-02-13 15:20:20 GMT from United States)
At first I also questioned what would be the advantage of CNR over Synaptic, but after learning more about it, it's not a question of just being easier to use. It offers several other positive improvements. Already mentioned were getting proprietary codecs legally and purchasing commercial software easily. That will attract vendors to create software for Linux, having a central place to advertise and sell it. For example, more commercial games for Linux would be a big plus.
Other improvements: being able to browse through available software by category or search while seeing descriptions, screenshots, user reviews, etc. all in one place; forums for the various applications; seeing who worked on what projects and links to other projects they are associated with;
But I think the biggest advantage it will have is making a unified "image" of Linux to the potential users and vendors out there, that no matter which (major) distro they use, they have this centralized resource and community, making it easy for everyone. Windows and Mac people can go there to easily get an idea of what Linux is about, looking at what all is out there and whetting their appetite for Linux.
If Linspire had kept CNR just for itself, it would not have been anything important, but by including all these other distros under CNR, it will do a lot for Linux as a whole. IMHO, that is -- we'll see what happens.
71 • CNR isn't a bad idea (by Tim on 2007-02-13 15:54:44 GMT from Canada)
I just want to make a quick comment stating that if it wasn't for CNR I may not be using Linux today. A couple of years ago I bought my first Linux in years (Linspire 5.0) and absolutely fell in love with it after using Microsoft Windows in many different versions from 3.1 to Xp ever since I began playing with computers. Several years before I had bought and tried Mandrake 8.1 "power pack edition" and to be honest was very disapointed in how difficult it was right from the get go. After my initial introduction to Linux, and all the trouble getting my hardware to work with it I was back to Windows 98 pretty quick. Needless to say Linux has come a long way since then, and I've tried a bunch of top rated distro's since my Linspire days finally settling on PCLinuxOS 093a "Big Daddy" version as the best I've found. I suppose what I'm getting at here is that when I originally tried Linux there was no CNR, no Synaptic, ... nothing to make Linux easy enough for most of us who were new to it that made switching from Windows an option because most of us didn't and still don't have a clue how to ad programs or software without the ease simplicity of CNR and those programs other distros have since offered such as the Synaptic here on my PCLinuxOS. To my way of thinking if offering CNR on Ubuntu or any other Distro helps make switching or migrating to Linux attractive, then why not do it? I also believe we're going to see a better Linspire and Ubuntu too when forces combine, since these are both pretty good to start with, but it will now take a lot to pry me away from my current PCLinuxOS.
72 • 68 (by ex-man on 2007-02-13 16:16:00 GMT from United States)
> However, I have requested how I may obtain the GPL'd portion of their source code, and never received a response.
Apparently you could get it from the Kubuntu distribution. However, they are required (no debate on that point) to provide it to you. They can talk with Mepis if they have any questions.
73 • RE: *spire (by Dean Linkous) (by S3Indiana on 2007-02-13 16:38:36 GMT from United States)
"If someone does not have the skills needed to operate synaptic then please have them step away from the computer - in the interest of everyones safety. :)"
Issues not necessarily the simplicity of using a tool like Synaptic, but access to a wider variety of software. Pls. explain how someone can install Sun StarOffice, Crossover Office, Cedega, Pixel Image Editor (and hopefully products from Adobe, Intuit and others) through that tool that does not provide access to an e-commerce transaction engine??? Goals to make the experience as transparent as possible while provide the greatest level of content to support the decision on which product to choose (it's realistically about choice).
"And just WHO is going to package these commercial items for the various distros that every seems to think will jump feet first onto the CNR bandwagon? According to all the pretty pictures that Carmony brought with him, CNR sits on TOP of the native package management software your distro of choice uses, so to get a product XYZ for Fedora, there would have to be an XYZ.rpm, and for Ubuntu an XYZ.deb. Since CNR is merely a clearing house for things, and currently is .deb only (when they start mirroring the official repos of the various other distros they will have .rpms) WHO does the packaging for folks if NOT the commercial people, and so..."
That's done during the negotiations between the publisher and CNR.com, but one of the two will provide the package that will function on the supported distribution (IOW one of the reasons the package has a cost associated). For the packages found in the distributions repository this won't be required (it'll work as well in CNR.com as in apt or your .rpm tool of choice)...
74 • 69 (by douglas on 2007-02-13 17:42:25 GMT from Germany)
Yes, I think you are right. I did not ever read this issue but for the titles. The readers still can write some interesting stuff though. Hope it picks up. Anyone can get burned out for a time.
75 • No subject (by voislav on 2007-02-13 18:39:28 GMT from Canada)
I think that the goal of CNR is not to provide easy interface for installing software, it's there to SELL software. Ultimately, the likes of Linspire and Ubuntu are in this to make money, not for the goodness of their hearts. Ubuntu had no model for selling commercial software for their platform, so they joined up with someone who did. Cudos to them, rather than wasting time and money to develop their own interface they adopted a tried and tested solution.
What's been the Achilles heel of commercial Linux distros so far is lack of proffesional grade software, or even the buissines model to make profit from proffesional grade software. This provides a low cost distribution channel and now we might see the likes of Corel and Adobe putting out Linux versions of their software.
I know that some people think that you can find a free alternative to any program, but let's get serious. This might be true for casual home user, but there just isn't any proffesional grade software for free. There will always be a place for community projects like Debian, for that 0.5% of the population that can do any task faster in the CLI than in the GUI, but for the great unwashed CNR is the way to go.
76 • Re: 53 (by Anonymous on 2007-02-13 18:54:40 GMT from Canada)
lol.
But who would Ubuntu base itself on? If it remained on Debian, it would be based on itself.
77 • RE: 69, 74 (by ladislav on 2007-02-13 19:41:25 GMT from Taiwan)
I am open to criticism, but you guys are not very helpful. If you are going to criticise, please at least provide some suggestions about what should be improved. What would you like to see here? What exactly has gone "downhill" during the past three months? What did you enjoy reading before that you no longer find here? Any other ideas?
It takes more than a day to put this together, but if you no longer enjoy it, I might as well stop doing it and put my time into something else....
Any other comments?
78 • Ubuntu decisions (by linbetwin on 2007-02-13 19:45:19 GMT from Romania)
There will be no proprietary drivers for graphics cards by default in Feisty, but the installation of said drivers and 3D desktop eye-candy will be made much easier.
PowerPC releases will be unofficial from now on, but previous releases of the PPC version will be supported as promised.
79 • RE: 77 (by Anonymous on 2007-02-13 20:09:37 GMT from Canada)
IMO, there has just been allot of slow news weeks in the past couple months. I think that once we get further into the spring release cycle, things will pick up like the usually do.
80 • XANDROS (by Anonymous on 2007-02-13 21:02:00 GMT from United States)
What happened to Xandros no more giving back to the community . is that ok with the GPL?
81 • 77 • RE: 69, 74, gone "downhill" (by Fractalguy on 2007-02-13 21:20:26 GMT from United States)
I say don't worry about the downhill talk. If anything, it might have been that some Microsoft fan-boys showed up. That seemed to change the tone here.
You know, think about it: Distrowatch is to distros like Amazon is to books, videos, etc. Amazon marketing has been said to provide for the Long Tail for books, music, etc. because they don't have to keep very slow/rare items in stock. But these slow/rare items are listed even if the expected sales are only a dozen per year. Distrowatch doesn't have to "stock" these distros, just review them, put their data in the data base and then POINT to their download site. Just as simple or simpler than the Amazon model.
And that is the real service here, the Long Tail describes the need to sell or buy the rare items and fill needs of special niches. So it might be useful to extend the distro coverage to the full 500 or so distros, provided the distro author gives the needed info. This, since there is really no other source of info where someone can go and find just the right OS for his very particular need. After the Red Hat, SuSE distribution peak, the Long Tail is really all the rest. And in the Long Tail theory, these can out weigh the top two or three. (I'm thinking about the desktop.)
The niche examples are many. What strikes me is how, when I first saw DSL in the 50 MB distro space, I thought that could be good but it sure isn't easy to use. Well, it is a lot easier now. Easier for someone like me that can't figure how the get Internet connection with some light distros that have far too many questions to answer. This being important for a light walk around live CD where the machine you might be using has unknown parameters and its user is a Windows noob who says "someone set it up, I don't know" . I point out that many live CDs do just connect when the box has been previously connected.
Keep up the good work! I've been here for 3+ years. Cheers.
82 • 77 (by ex-man on 2007-02-13 21:20:42 GMT from United States)
Ladislav,
I think these guys are just a couple of pimple-faced teenage losers. I kind of assumed the posts were trolls. I like the job you are doing putting together the news *and* giving good commentary. If there is not as much news this week, such as no Novell/Microsoft partnership, that's kind of out of your control. At least when you criticized Fedora, you gave some reasons.
83 • Really enjoy reading DW (by Bill Savoie on 2007-02-13 21:37:00 GMT from United States)
#77 I love reading Distro Watch. For the most part people who know something new about the world of Linux get a chance to post back here in the Comments section. There are also a few who just seem to need the attention, and they post over and over. But it is easy to just ignore them and skip on to the next post. I finally tried PClinuxOS and I love it! Never would have tried it, except people kept saying how good it was. I hope Kanotix can get back to a regular release process. I loved Feather, but it just stopped putting out new CDs. I love live CDs that will allow you to install. Thanks Ladislav, you are an original doing what we all would love to be doing. Don't give up Linux for psychology! People are just doing the best they can. When their truck starts running and their dog returns and they quit drinking too much, their lives will get better. Until then don't get sucked into everything they put out. We still love you..
84 • RE: #77 (by Béranger on 2007-02-13 22:00:36 GMT from Romania)
> What exactly has gone "downhill" during the past three months?
Nothing, actually. > What did you enjoy reading before that you no longer find here?
I don't think they mean it. Some people get bored too easy.
DWW and DW as a whole can't be replaced, and they're just as good as they can be.
I might not agree with some of your opinions, yet I don't see any "downhill". People are free to watch the shopping channel if they don't like DWW.
85 • Ladislav (by Caraibes on 2007-02-13 23:31:29 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Ladislav, you are doing a good work !
I enjoy reading your DWW, and I don't have to agree with every single article...
Keep up the good work. I enjoyed the piece on Jaromil.
86 • re 76 (by Anonymous on 2007-02-14 04:10:40 GMT from Japan)
Ubuntu the OS can be based on the spirit of humanity towards others, ie "Ubuntu" the word. (The vast number of recursive acronyms in open source product names make this OK).
87 • Suggestion for a DWW feature (by rglk on 2007-02-14 04:13:10 GMT from United States)
Ladislav,
Here's something I'd like to see in DWW: informative little Linux Tech Notes that explain interesting new trends in Linux development, and in particular explicate cryptic references in the short distro release announcements that I'm constantly stumbling over.
E.g. I'm not at all clear about the following:
* More and more distros are replacing hotplug with udev. What's the innovation? * What's dbus, hal, etc? * What's unionfs and aufs? * What is Beryl? * Just when I'd learned the ropes of how to configure the initial ramdisk in the early part of the boot sequence (e.g. using mkinitrd), I learn that this is being replaced with mkinitcpio. E.g. Arch did it and so did Debian. What exactly is the change? * New file systems are being developed all the time. What are they all about? Which of these are likely to catch on? Is reiserfs 4 going anywhere? * Where are package managers going? It appears that Mandriva's current version of rpm is a far cry from their rpm of five years ago. How is it different? In what ways did they improve it and how does it match up to Debian's? * A quick review for the layman of Solaris 10's zones would be interesting. After all, that functionality is now available in the hybrid distros Belenix and Nexenta. * More and more OS emulators are popping up that can be run within Linux, aside from the older standbies Vmware, Qemu, Parallels, etc. What's going on in that world?
And so on ...
I.e. if you could pick through the News and Updates announcements and perhaps explain some of the items mentioned there that puzzle folks who don't read two or three Linux tech magazines.
Thanks.
Robert
88 • RE: 87 • Suggestion for a DWW feature (by IMQ on 2007-02-14 06:01:55 GMT from United States)
Excellent ideas!
Ladislav,
Is it doable? Or are you overloaded already?
Thanks for great job you are doing with DW.
89 • re 77, 88,89 (by dbrion on 2007-02-14 07:52:14 GMT from France)
The idea of putting little tech notes (or recommended IT links) is a good idea, d'autant plus que a majority of DWW readers are Windows users (# 60% from DWW stats) or use Windows to read DWW (no IT connections for their PC). I noticed that DWW bored *me* more this year than last year , perhaps because I have learned more and need it less. Another reason is that , if I browse on the right side the contents of 2005 or 2006, I find some answers to qustions I asked myself. It does not mean I hope DWW will answer all my questions every week.. If there was not DWW and emulators (qemu had a new version last week, mouse moves inside an emulated desktop seemed less unpleasant, VirtualBox got free last month and has been already shipped wit MCN vitrtualcity and SaxenOS) it would be very difficult to know there are Linuxes+sophisticated FreeOSS and to get intersted in their contents.
90 • The direction of DWW post 69 (by Douglas on 2007-02-14 09:55:07 GMT from Germany)
Sorry for being vague. I am sick but I do mean what I agreed with, no troll here and I am 40, love Linux and am a Doctor. I loved to read this in the past. I also think calling someone pimple faced is way out of line but Ladislav's post was right on and fair ever if he were upset. I was not out to hurt but to hopefully bring back what I was missing. If 2 of us state the same thing then there is a good chance that MANY more are feeling it too.
I was about to write a big description of what is wrong from MY point of view but post 87 is all over it and right on. I will try and add more here.
There has been a big positive debate and opening up of 3d desktops. It seems that there are 3 types. Are they good? Are they useful? Where are they going? How does this compare to Vista? (I have not used Windows since 95, should I go back? ;-) )
What is the future of each distro? Where are they going? What is new? What are the advantages and disadvantages of each distro? Which distro is better and for what? I think the top 10 on the list are important but the "bottom 20" are often more cutting edge, "out there", interesting and trend setting.
Questions: What is new in the kernel? What is this virtualization stuff? As a desktop user should I even care? Why do different distros use different kernels? What does it all mean to me the end user?
Where are the drives at in their production? Where are they going? What is up? What no nvidia in Ubuntu now? Why? :-)
What are the new trends in packages like open office, gimp, blender 3d, firefox etc, What do the makers think? Might be off topic but at the same time distros are often about picking the right combination of programs and compiling them in a way that works of a particular set of hardware and needs. Also what is the difference in settings and compilations of Ubuntu VS Puppy VS Damm Small? Why are they different and how? I am not a techie so what I want is all this in layman's turms.
I almost forgot what is BSD? Why should I use it or not? Is it faster? Better? What is it?
I think in the end, what I want to know is facts and opinions about distros than would help me decide what if fun and or useful to use or try out. What is different? What is new? Where is it all going and why? What tips can you give me to help me have a better Linux experience.
In the end it is important to say that DWW has been and hopefully will always be a great piece of work. As a Doctor people expect me to get it right EVERY TIME but guess what? I don't. Don't let my complaint get to you to much and keep up the great work.
Douglas
91 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-02-14 13:07:35 GMT from France)
"I almost forgot what is BSD? Why should I use it or not? Is it faster? Better? What is it?"
You are a little unfair towards DWW. 2 weeks ago, there was an interview of the builder of Freesbie, and there are often news of the Free BSD word. **** Why do I use it? I use PCBSD under qemu because I want to change from Linux and Windows, both of these systems being good for me... As Linux is said to increase, I think some year it will interst virus manufacturers and I shall be happy to have a free rescue OS. (I do not accept credos such as "Linux is a safe system", unless it is proven, on a logical (not 3(0[0]) years of experience or "I make great s[hr]inking bucks by reapairing virus bitten Winblows systems") basis) **** Is it better/faster?...
The fact that I use qemu makes any conclusion concerning speed, 3D gadgets and hardware recognition irrelevant . However : it is easy to install, and the install phase is so well organised that one can run errands , cut lawns, etc... without babysitting ones computer.
there is a good KDE, lots of compilers and as far as now I could install all the softs I wanted... The configuration and compilation scripts are ready if I want a *real* install (not a virtual one).
there is a man (it differs in this aspect from Solaris...) , as in Cygwin... There is a good (> 700 p) book, well structured enough to skip what is not intersting. I found this book with DWW links...
92 • Cor 91 (by dbrion on 2007-02-14 13:08:51 GMT from France)
Subject was RE 90
93 • Linspire and Canonical Partnership (by Warlock on 2007-02-14 17:31:04 GMT from United States)
Hmmm seems you really dont understand. Linspire and Freespire will now follow the Ubuntu release schedule. This is a great boon to all the *spire users. Add the opening of CNR.com to multiple distros and you will see that this could be "our" (Linux's) time to pull new users in with easy drivers AND software installs.
The positives clearly show here.
Erick
94 • Re #91 Virtualization software (by rglk on 2007-02-14 17:52:46 GMT from United States)
I'm not sure I understand your setup. Am I correct that you're running PCBSD as your principal OS, have qemu installed in PCBSD and run (i.e. emulate) Windows and various Linux distros within qemu? How well does that work? What are the principal advantages of running OS's in this fashion? Why did you pick qemu over Vmware or Parallels or VirtualBox etc. What are the hardware requirements (RAM, disk space etc.) of these emulators and how fast do they run?
My experience with the free VmPlayer hasn't been all that positive (that was soon after the free VmPlayer came out). It's impressive that this can be done but I'd rather install different OS's on different HDD partitions and multiboot if I want to explore them.
Robert
95 • RE 94 (by dbrion on 2007-02-14 18:54:39 GMT from France)
PCBSD is my favourite virtual OS, the main OS being Mandriva 2006 (th fact that it is favorite is linked whith .its being new).
****Under Linux as a base OS, I use qemu (it is very easy to compile and to use as CLI): for CPU ratii, i think it is about 1/10; for IOs, it introduces random delays. The RAM requirements of qemu are modests ( 10 Mo for qemu + the RAM requirements of the emulated OS (+ of course the RAM requirements of the base OS + the RAM requirements of additional processes in the base OS (if I compile/run some programs)) The disks requirements : I use external disks (USB 2.0 on week ends, USB 1.... (yes: it is 40 times slower...) on week) because my internal disks (on laptops, with different ages) are full with data, and I know I am rather clumsy with rats and I make many mispellings with keyboards, so I prefear protecting an installed dual-boot... USB disks can be made in a cheap way with ATA/DATA internal disks and universal adapters, which can also be used with broken PCs (to try to rescue a disk). I chose qemu because sometimes I change my Linux kernel, and *unaccelerated* qemu can be compiled without the kernel sources (in a slow user mode). I did not chooseVMplayer nor VirtualBox nor *accelerated qemu because they must be compiled with a given kernel, and I do not know what will happen if I change Mandriva 2006.... I thus emulate legal Windows 98 (to test cross compiled stuff) and PCBSD (as a candidate for a triboot when one of my laptops breaks or when laptops or US$ go cheap...)
*****Under Windows I used VMplayer because it is fast enough and old enoug (the CPU ratii seems 1/ (2 or 3) , the I/O delays remain erratic): the emulated systems are (for work, on a USB1*) Mandriva 2007 and WhiteBox Liberation, for fun Suze , Fedora and KateOS and ZenWalk (I installed other, then dropped them)+ many liveCDs . VirtualBox seems as fast as VMplayer, has a better (at lest 4 times shorter)doc, a really intuitive interface { I make a difference between gadgets and really useful GUIs}, but seems a little young _I knew it from DW announces of MCM 2 weeksago_: I had neither the disk space nor the time to install anything, and used it as far as now to test many live Cds.... Undes WiDOWS + VMware, I use NTFS disks to install virtual Linuxes, which leads to very sputrious I/Os during install, after it is acceptable...
My using virtualisation is linked with the fact that I am conscious I can make mistakes, or new distrs could bite my real disks. At work, it is also linked with the fact I use only Windows XP on my desktop (I can connect with very distant Linuxes, but I never saw a > 50 km USB link : it might be very expensive.....). The CPU ratii can be at best of 3 or 2 (at leat I think), but it is not that ennoying for running scripts or with modern CPs. The IOs times are more annoying, often they are slow to very slow, but live Cds can be accelerated (reading a disk image is faster than a CD, and the 'suspend session' option bypasses the booting sequence.) I hope I ve not been too long and annoying, but I think it might be an intersting solution to test install
96 • RE 94 (by dbrion on 2007-02-14 18:54:43 GMT from France)
PCBSD is my favourite virtual OS, the main OS being Mandriva 2006 (th fact that it is favorite is linked whith .its being new).
****Under Linux as a base OS, I use qemu (it is very easy to compile and to use as CLI): for CPU ratii, i think it is about 1/10; for IOs, it introduces random delays. The RAM requirements of qemu are modests ( 10 Mo for qemu + the RAM requirements of the emulated OS (+ of course the RAM requirements of the base OS + the RAM requirements of additional processes in the base OS (if I compile/run some programs)) The disks requirements : I use external disks (USB 2.0 on week ends, USB 1.... (yes: it is 40 times slower...) on week) because my internal disks (on laptops, with different ages) are full with data, and I know I am rather clumsy with rats and I make many mispellings with keyboards, so I prefear protecting an installed dual-boot... USB disks can be made in a cheap way with ATA/DATA internal disks and universal adapters, which can also be used with broken PCs (to try to rescue a disk). I chose qemu because sometimes I change my Linux kernel, and *unaccelerated* qemu can be compiled without the kernel sources (in a slow user mode). I did not chooseVMplayer nor VirtualBox nor *accelerated qemu because they must be compiled with a given kernel, and I do not know what will happen if I change Mandriva 2006.... I thus emulate legal Windows 98 (to test cross compiled stuff) and PCBSD (as a candidate for a triboot when one of my laptops breaks or when laptops or US$ go cheap...)
*****Under Windows I used VMplayer because it is fast enough and old enoug (the CPU ratii seems 1/ (2 or 3) , the I/O delays remain erratic): the emulated systems are (for work, on a USB1*) Mandriva 2007 and WhiteBox Liberation, for fun Suze , Fedora and KateOS and ZenWalk (I installed other, then dropped them)+ many liveCDs . VirtualBox seems as fast as VMplayer, has a better (at lest 4 time s shorter)doc, a really intuitive interface { I make a difference between gadgets and really useful GUIs}, but seems a little young _I knew it from DW announces of MCM 2 weeksago_: I had neither the disk space nor the time to install anything, and used it as far as now to test many live Cds.... Undes WiDOWS + VMware, I use NTFS disks to install virtual Linuxes, which leads to very sputrious I/Os during install, after it is acceptable...
My using virtualisation is linked with the fact that I am conscious I can make mistakes, or new distrs could bite my real disks. At work, it is also linked with the fact I use only Windows XP on my desktop (I can connect with very distant Linuxes, but I never saw a > 50 km USB link : it might be very expensive.....). The CPU ratii can be at best of 3 or 2 (at leat I think), but it is not that ennoying for running scripts or with modern CPs. The IOs times are more annoying, often they are slow to very slow, but live Cds can be accelerated (reading a disk image is faster than a CD, and the 'suspend session' option bypasses the booting sequence.) I hope I ve not been too long and annoying, but I think it might be an intersting solution to test install.
97 • who's on first? and a suggestion (by Anonymous on 2007-02-14 20:17:53 GMT from Germany)
Actually, aren't all distros actually based on the kernel (cf Nexenta with Solaris kernel and GNU packages, which isn't Linux)?
Distrowatch suggestion: I find the daily news briefs a bit cryptic at times if the distro is new to me. Perhaps the vendors could provide a distro summary before launching into lists of library updates, etc. The info is probably already in the DW database. I first want to know: what type of distro (desktop, server, live, etc) country of origin if it has a base distro (eg Debian, Fedora, etc)
98 • elive continues to improve (by eric on 2007-02-15 04:56:05 GMT from United States)
Another development release has arrived for Elive this week. It brings more package updates and bug fixes. However work continues on this wonderful distro and soon users will see elive using an updated Enlightenment 17 desktop as defualt. Elive continues to impress me with its media support, clean beautiful desktop, bloatfree speed, and quality default selection of programs all contained on one 700MB cd! Great job Elive, your continued improvment makes this distro my top choice. I suggest everyone take a look at this unique and wonderful distro.
99 • Some Thoughts (by Max on 2007-02-15 07:03:44 GMT from Australia)
As I said, I wasn't trying to start a troll, and I'm also not a Windows fanboy... I love Linux and my distro of choice is Gentoo. I have been reading Distrowatch since mid-2004 and I also hugely respect Ladislav's work...
However, Ive just been felling like there's nothing really to look forward to here anymore. I feel most stories are boring and, like the other reader, I just mostly read the headlines... (I also feel Ladislav has been letting his opinion "surface" a lot more than he used too, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, although it annoys me sometimes...)
Also I'm not sure I can really tell you where/how to improve as I am no news expert, I just felt like I had to express my feelings and ask if anyone else was feeling the same... Don't get me wrong though, I still think the website is great and I myself would probably never do as a good job as Ladislav does here with all those distros out there... Its just the weekly news part that I feel have become a letdown...
One thing I remember I enjoyed though was reading Robert Storey's pieces... These days I satisfy my linux-news hunger through other websites, mostly slashdot, osnews, the register and others... Maybe distrowatch focuses too much on distros and distro-inner-workings and not enough on other-things-linux? Or maybe you are doing the right thing as this is a distro-centric website as oppposed to a linux-centric one, and maybe I am the one who just simply lost interest....
OK, for some ideas, how about some pieces on new linux technologies, such as ubuntu upstart vs initng vs the-old-init. Or something on the new kernel KVM thing, and what it could mean to the average user. BTW, does anyone know what is happening to X.Org 7.2? Its long overdue, and maybe someone could have a chat with the developers and see what's taking so long. It could even become a nice piece about the future of X.Org with 7.3 etc... Or how about some weekly polls to go together with the news? Or even better, maybe 2 or 3 polls on the same subject, to get a nice picture on a particular subject... How about a poll asking users about their experience playing multimedia files in linux? Maybe something like:
What has your experience been like playing multimedia files on your main/chosen/everyday distro? 1. I can play all my media files out-of-the-box 2. I can play all my media files after some hacking 3. I can play most of my media files out-of-the-box 4. I can play most of my media files after some hacking 5. I can only play some of my media files (either out-of-the-box or after some hacking) 6. I can only play a few media files (either out-of-the-box or after some hacking) 7. I just feel like nothing works 8. I didn't choose my distro because of its multimedia capabilities, so I'm not worried
How do you react when you can't play your multimedia files in linux? 1. I try googling for answers and workarounds 2. I visit my favorite forum 3. I call a friend who cames to help me out 4. I call or email my distro support 5. I just curse and give up 6. I start dreaming of a better future 7. It makes me doubt my faith in linux 8. I boot back to Windows so I can view the file
If you only had ten distros to chose from, and you were to pick a distro solely due to its multimedia playing capabilities, which one would it be? 0. Fedora 1. Knoppix 2. Linspire / Freespire 3. Mandriva 4. Mepis 5. PCLinuxOS 6. Sabayon 7. Suse / OpenSuse 8. Ubuntu 9. Xandros
Thanks for reading and although I'm bored, I still thing Ladislav is doing a hell of a job keeping up with all the distros out there...
Peace and long live linux and distrowatch...
100 • What a wonderful day!!!! (by Werewolf on 2007-02-15 09:40:42 GMT from Romania)
Beta releases of PCLOS and Frugalware hit the mirrors !!!!!! The releases are just around the corner ...... :)
101 • RSS Feeds (by melic on 2007-02-15 10:58:45 GMT from United Kingdom)
Thanks to Iain Cheyne for the RSS, I find them very useful.
102 • Re: 96 (by johncoom on 2007-02-16 05:20:39 GMT from Australia)
I hope you enjoyed writing & copy + pasting all that. stuff ? I sort of speed read through it all - was it worth the time + effort Well not for me - I hope Ladislav got more out of it than I did ? :-(
103 • Re: 80 • XANDROS (by Anonymous on 2007-02-16 07:03:04 GMT from Hungary)
Anonymous aks: What happened to Xandros no more giving back to the community.
I don't know but its DistroWatch page has not been updated lately. There is a free (as in free beer) download of Xandros 4.1 Trial: http://www.xandros.com/products/home/home_edition.html
104 • Xandros (by Ariszló on 2007-02-16 10:06:17 GMT from Hungary)
It has just been updated: http://distrowatch.com/xandros
105 • RE: 99 (by Caraibes on 2007-02-16 11:39:27 GMT from Dominican Republic)
What has your experience been like playing multimedia files on your main/chosen/everyday distro? 2. I can play all my media files after some hacking
How do you react when you can't play your multimedia files in linux? 1. I try googling for answers and workarounds & 2. I visit my favorite forum
If you only had ten distros to chose from, and you were to pick a distro solely due to its multimedia playing capabilities, which one would it be? 2. Linspire / Freespire 4. Mepis 5. PCLinuxOS
106 • DW (by octathlon on 2007-02-16 14:47:22 GMT from United States)
Some of these suggestions I'm reading sound like generic things that are covered on various Linux sites, whereas this site is called Distrowatch because it's specifically about tracking and comparing *distros*.
So even though I'm not bored here, my suggestions for *related* topics for articles to cover would be things like:
- Specialty distros. What distros are out there to fill certain niches like - audio/sound studio, video editing, or multimedia in general; distros just to set up a box for MythTV or other TiVo-like system; scientific distros; completely accessible distros for visually impaired or other disabilties; distros for children; distros for running a small business, etc. etc.
- Comparision of desktop environments beyond just KDE/Gnome; which distros have what, and why would we want to try them.
- Linux vs. BSD - File systems comparison - Virtualization
All of those topics from the viewpoint of choosing the best distro(s) for one's needs.
107 • revamp the site? (by ray carter at 2007-02-16 16:12:00 GMT from United States)
Here's my two cents worth: I too, would like to see a very brief summary of what makes the distro unique - or it's defining characteristics in each announcement - there are a lot of distros I don't track regularly and it would help me sort out if it might be worth a look for me.
How about separating the announcements into two groups? The actual new releases in one group and the latest alpha, beta, test versions in another? Generally I don't care about the alpha, beta releases, but I can certainly understand why folks would - might make it easier for everyone.
FWIW - I remember a couple of years ago when there was an informative article in each weekly. One I remember very fondly was about using rsync to fetch iso images. Ladislav would certainly not need to author an article each week - I would imaging there would be plenty of folks willing to send in short pieces.
Overall, the site and the weekly are great, but there's usually room for improvement.
108 • I did not enjoy pasting and cutting all that stuff (by RE 102 on 2007-02-16 16:21:07 GMT from France)
There was just a problem with my mouse....
BYTW, I answered, as much as I could (and as fast as I could) to a sensible question. The details can be filtered, anyway (I give anything I know, and pple if intersted by the subject, can filter).... Do you object??
109 • Re #95 Virtualization software (by rglk on 2007-02-16 18:15:07 GMT from United States)
dbrion, sorry, I didn't thank you earlier for all the effort you put out trying to answer my questions (in #94). I found your reply to be quite useful.
Running virtual machines under Linux or Windows is a topic in which there seems to be a lot of interest, and more and more virtualization software is being released (VMware, qemu, Xen, Parallels, KVM, VirtualBox, etc.).
My sense is that VMware still is the champ. When the free VMware Player was released about a year ago I downloaded a dozen different virtual appliances (mostly Linux OS's) and played with them for a while. It's impressive what VMware can do. However, there was still something cumbersome and unsatisfactory about this way of test running distros, and I soon lost interest in it. Perhaps it had to do with the fact that the images provided for free often were somewhat limited or out of date, and I hadn't bought VMware Workstation ($189) to make my own images.
qemu seems to be more limited than VMware and often times slower. Also, I don't think you can run Windows XP under it, with Linux as a host OS. In the Xandros forum, I've heard very good things about Parallels which can be purchased for $50. They offer a 15-day free trial that can be extended for another 15 days, so I heard. VirtualBox can be explored from the new MCNLive "VirtualCity" live CD. I know nothing about Xen but it seems to be included in quite a few recent distro releases. Re KVM - that seems to be part of the most recent Linux kernel v. 2.16.20.
In any case, I would welcome it if Ladislav were to include a review of current virtualization software in an upcoming edition of DWW. After all, this is an expedient way of test running and comparing Linux distros.
Robert
110 • XANDROS Re 103, 104 (by Anonymous on 2007-02-17 05:13:04 GMT from United States)
Free trial or 30 Days demo is not giving back, they are making money with the work of others. and the only thing that they can give is a demo bah!
111 • RE 109 : cheap VMplayer images and comparisons (by dbrion on 2007-02-17 10:38:24 GMT from France)
"Perhaps it had to do with the fact that the images provided for free often were somewhat limited or out of date," : you can find images at "http://www.easyvmx.com/" and use them to install and test OSes. The main pb with free VMplayer is the absence of centralized, easy to read, doc.
The point of comparison can be very annoying ; as PC simulators introduces distorsions in timings, it is unfair (and VMware does not encourage it (Eula 3..x)) to draw comparative conclusions; it would be very unwise to use on of these softs as a way to fine tune a Linux. At least one should tell one's brain not to care about timings ( this instruction is linked with OLPC images)... I see them as a mean to train oneself before installing a Linux on someone's friend, as a way of testing for presence (and preparing compilation shells) of my favorite softs. It can also be used as sandboxes, pedagogic tools or, combined with GIMP in the host machine) as mean to make screenshots of the install phase before the guest HD is recognised and formatted (to have nice install instructions / doc). OLPC used virtualisation before their hardware was avalaible, and told that timings would be much better with real hardware ...
VirtualBox seems to work also for installing Linuxes ( I tested it with Mandriva2006 and Opensuze 10.2).
112 • Playing "Where is Feisty" (by Fractalguy on 2007-02-18 17:35:47 GMT from United States)
The download links for herd4 sometimes don't lead to real download sites. For example I click on the kubuntu (Download Mirrors) and get http://www.kubuntu.org/download.php
Download Kubuntu 6.10 (Edgy) and Download Kubuntu 6.06.1 LTS (Dapper)
while the real location is here http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/feisty/herd-4/
Now when I look for xubuntu I get lost back at the main ubuntu site.
For edubuntu it leads to http://www.edubuntu.org/PreviewReleaseFeedback/ Page not found.
Perhaps a more direct link would be more useful than linking to distrowatch's http://distrowatch.com/kubuntu etc. where hte best I can do is click Download Mirrors or some such.
I also note that ubuntu is not consistant in the download addresses across their sub-distros. Todate, I have been able to locate them sooner or later, but this time not so well.
Thanks for the updates.
113 • Playing "Where is Feisty" (by Fractalguy on 2007-02-18 18:03:18 GMT from United States)
Find all four - win 200 points :)
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/feisty/herd-4/ http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/feisty/herd-4/ http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/feisty/herd-4/ http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/feisty/herd-4/
So in the end there is a pattern, but not easily seen from outside.
114 • re:99 (by deniros on 2007-02-19 01:09:16 GMT from Belgium)
"If you only had ten distros to chose from, and you were to pick a distro solely due to its multimedia playing capabilities, which one would it be?"
i would pick number 11 : vector linux vector linux plays almost everything out of the box
115 • Re:Interview with Dianne Ursini, Pioneer Linux (by cobra7 on 2007-02-19 02:25:58 GMT from United States)
I have read DW for a long time now going back to 2002 and 2003.
So now I read about TA going with unbuntu and it's own tapioneer,
So what happened to Warren and MEPIS
or how about Mandrake?
or appgen..............
you might get the picture. TA seems to just jump from one "buckboard" to another as long as she thinks she can get a buck out of it.
I like MEPIS, always did, and Warren should have known about TA from the old mandrake days.
Anything that TA trys to get it's claws in, I go the other way including mandrake and mepis. There is plenty of support fo newbies or anyone else for that matter. One has to question trying to box something and then sell for a profit when they dont do anything to increase the value of the product.
speaking from the past use of mandrake, I can say that TA takes the money and runs.
Number of Comments: 115
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