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1 • Boot time stats (by d00m3d on 2007-01-15 11:26:15 GMT from China)
There are numerous factors that contribute to the length of boot time, not just merely the init script the or Mudur routine.
I am in little doubt to rationale behind to compare the boot time of various distros.
2 • Brendan Scott - The Dark Horse of Open Source (by Béranger on 2007-01-15 11:28:31 GMT from Romania)
1. "BSD - The Dark Horse of Open Source, the paper attempts to correct some common misunderstandings about the implications.." BS! I don't buy any of these droppings! http://beranger.org/index.php?article=2264
2. Should DesktopBSD 1.6-RC be released that soon, it would most likely be a buggy one.
3. Pardus: very nice and promising. Very nice the new config. center (TASMA)! As I am not a KDE fan, and I find KDE Control Center as terribly cluttered, the new attempt by Pardus to simplify it is very welcomed! It looks clean and neat, and PiSI too! (I have to try Pardus one of these days.)
However, having the init scripts being Python-based, this is a stupid increase of the risk you won't be able to boot! Say you screw Python due to an upgrade. Kaputt the init! (Bourne shell is unlikley to be screwed.)
The enhanced Kickoff (à la SuSE) is the default option? (Ugly.)
3 • The enhanced Kickoff (à la SuSE) (by Ariszló on 2007-01-15 11:52:42 GMT from Hungary)
Béranger wrote about Pardus: The enhanced Kickoff (à la SuSE) is the default option? (Ugly.)
I don't like it either. Unfortunately, it seems it will be the default kickoff menu of KDE 4:
http://linuxhelp.blogspot.com/2007/01/sneek-preview-of-expected-features-in.html
http://plasma.kde.org/wiki/index.php/RaptorMenu
4 • Pardus, once again: REPOS! (by Béranger on 2007-01-15 11:53:13 GMT from Romania)
I can't find a repository holding the "fairly long list of packages (1,577 at the time of writing) available for easy installation on the Pardus Linux mirrors".
Should I download the CD (which one?) to find out WHERE THE HECK are the repositories?!
Some time ago, someone pointed me to the wrong place: "binary packages are linked on this page as well as the sources: http://www.pardus.org.tr/eng/projects/paketler/index.html".
However, URL for binary packages contains very outdated packages, from 2005! (E.g. GIMP 2.3.4!)
Can't I just have a f***ng URL where I can see what packages are available in Pardus?
Têtes de Turcs !!!
5 • RE: The enhanced Kickoff (à la (by Béranger on 2007-01-15 11:57:35 GMT from Romania)
Ariszló, the article about the "sneek preview" is _not_ an official point of view!
Is the Raptor Menu [http://plasma.kde.org/wiki/index.php/RaptorMenu] really _this_ "Novell-enhanced" menu?!
-- I can't see no screenshots/mockups?!
-- I can't see any reference to Novell.
-- Generally speaking, where is the much acclaimed "the KDE project is better managed than the GNOME project, which is a mess"?!
I am a GNOME fan, and I know the GNOME project is a mess. Once I started to use a little bit KDE, and tried to get informed on the upcoming KDE4, I can see that KDE is a bigger mess than GNOME!
6 • Re: The enhanced Kickoff (by Ariszló on 2007-01-15 12:04:14 GMT from Hungary)
At http://linuxhelp.blogspot.com/2007/01/sneek-preview-of-expected-features-in.html , the "Sneak preview of the start menu in KDE 4.0" shows five tabs:
http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/938/4204/1600/471459/menu.png
And according to the PlasmaWikie, "There will be 5 basic areas of the Menu: The header, The footer, The categories pane, The elements pane and a shortstart bar."
http://plasma.kde.org/wiki/index.php/RaptorMenu
7 • RE: 4 Pardus Repositories (by ladislav on 2007-01-15 12:04:22 GMT from Taiwan)
Here you go:
http://paketler.pardus.org.tr/pardus-2007/
8 • Boot Time (by John Kilgour on 2007-01-15 12:08:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
I was interested in the table of boot times. On my Athlon XP 2200 with 512MB ram SuSE 10.0 to KDE screen takes 46 sec to login plus a further 16 secs to KDE desktop - total 62 sec. Windose XP home takes 82 sec. Linux is NOT slow.
9 • RE: RE: 4 Pardus Repositories (by Béranger on 2007-01-15 12:29:17 GMT from Romania)
Thx, Ladislav!
But how can one find a link to the shown "paketler" repository from the main page??? www.pardus.org.tr
10 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-01-15 12:38:34 GMT from United States)
beranger wrote: The enhanced Kickoff (à la SuSE) is the default option? (Ugly.)
No, its not! You are able to choce your kicker menu at startup in Kaptan, and even if it for some reason went wrong at startup, its easy to change that just by rightclicking the menu and voila, you have an option to change to default kicker menu.
And...
I tried and wrote a review of Pardus a week ago and found it a very polished distro with a very nice package system, but the lack of packages is the biggest disapointment.
11 • RE: 9 Pardus Repositories (by ladislav on 2007-01-15 12:39:00 GMT from Taiwan)
I don't know. Maybe they want to keep it secret, so that only those who install Pardus and check the default repository in PiSi will find it.
12 • Boot Time (by Ken Yap on 2007-01-15 12:39:21 GMT from Australia)
I would argue that any time > 0 seconds is too long whatever the OS. We should be striving towards the ideal of a computer that is ready to use when we want it (without any penalties in standby power consumption, etc.) Sure, it's idealistic, but it's a goal to keep in mind. It's a bit sad that as our computers do more and more, they actually are slower to boot than some systems that have been made in the past.
13 • RE: the lack of packages is the biggest disapointment (by Béranger on 2007-01-15 12:51:08 GMT from Romania)
> the lack of packages is the biggest disapointment.
It lools like the only Gtk+/Gtk# apps are GIMP and Beagle.
Even a KDE-centric distro can have some more Gtk+ apps: take Slackware, who has Gxine out of the box (please, don't ask me why I found gxine to be fabulous).
With a minimum of libgnome support, apps like Abiword, Gnumeric and Planner could be added too. See Zenwalk, which supports them even _without_ installing the "g" set (GNOME).
What's funny with the Qt-written package manager in Pardus is that even Mandriva (still mostly KDE, even if I'm using it in GNOME) has Rpmdrake 2007 written in PerlGtk! (Yes, Gtk+, not Qt.) It seems that Pardus is more successful in its "KDE-centricity" ;-)
xorg-app-7.2_rc3 looks risky. Is it really working?! DRI, stuff?!
14 • RE: #3 (by 1c3d0g on 2007-01-15 12:54:51 GMT from Aruba)
The enhanced KDE menu can be reverted back to the default old-style menu if you don't like it. Plus, some people *do* think it's useable. It's all about choice.
15 • SME server (by mcp_dk on 2007-01-15 13:51:28 GMT from Germany)
I am very dissappointed that the SME server went through a major update to first 7.0 and this week to 7.1 with no or very little attention despite that this distro is higly specielazid and have very little competition (if any. Only clarkconnect provides a somewhat similar product)
Is this distro just too small for anyone to care?
16 • No mention of Debian's upcoming Etch release? (by Syntaxis on 2007-01-15 13:52:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
Any particular reason you've omitted mention of Debian in the "expected upcoming releases" section?
17 • Pardus "survival"? (by herman on 2007-01-15 13:57:05 GMT from Europe)
As always, with Pardus being a rather niche distribution, there is a danger that the project gets abandoned at some stage, so growth in user numbers is essential for the project's long-term survival.
As far as I have heard, Pardus is backed (financially, CMIIW) by the Turkish government, which supposedly wants to use it in the future as a "national" operating system (for public services, perhaps army, police etc.), to be more independent from corporate (and/or US) software vendors. Since it's gone public that the NSA put stuff in WinVista and we can't read the code, rightfully so: the Turkish government is smart, unlike many other gov.s.
So from this perspective, Pardus has nothing to worry about.
As for the users, all I know is, Pardus has been received very enthousiastically in the Netherlands ~ it even has quite a few genuine "fanboys" already. ^^
One of the more simple reasons for this is that it 'ships' with a lot of multimedia codecs. But the general desktop polish, package management, and other things must contribute to that too, obviously.
You might argue, let the Turkish government just select a well-established existing Linux distribution! I guess people are like that, always reinventing the wheel.;)
18 • RE: 15 SME server (by ladislav on 2007-01-15 14:13:43 GMT from Taiwan)
Is this distro just too small for anyone to care?
Why wait for other people make a splash? You are the community too! If you want to hear more about SME Server, go ahead and write an article, review, overview or whatever, then publish it on Digg, send links to DW, NewsForge, etc. Simple as that!
19 • RE: 16 No mention of Debian's upcoming Etch release? (by ladislav on 2007-01-15 14:20:00 GMT from Taiwan)
Oh, that's another one that comes up all the time.
The upcoming releases list only lists those distributions that have announced a probably release date and that release date should preferably be in the future. Since we don't know when Debian 4.0 will be released, it doesn't appear on the list of upcoming releases.
20 • Mandriva Linux 2007.1 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-01-15 15:00:48 GMT from Italy)
It is not like me, but in this case I am a bit lost.
Kernel 2.6.17? Why such an old kernel?
GNOME 2.17??? For years I have always known that odd version numbers indicate development status.
Can anybody help, please?
21 • RE: 15 • SME server (by Béranger on 2007-01-15 15:18:00 GMT from Romania)
Q: How is it _much_ better than CentOS-4.4.ServerCD?
Q: Should you care about SME, this makes at least _one_ person to care about it. When comes to http://tinysofa.org/, there are exactly _zero_ people talking about it!
There isn't any review on the Web about TinySofa! There isn't any public explanation about how comes their web page only points now to the Classic 2.0 "Ceara" server (~362 MB, e.g. here: ftp://ftp.campus.skelleftea.se/pub/mirror/tinysofa.org/tinysofa/releases/classic-2.0/iso/), whereas "the other sofa", Server 2.0 "Odin" (larger, 684 MB, e.g. ftp://ftp.campus.skelleftea.se/pub/mirror/tinysofa.org/tinysofa/releases/server-2.0/iso/) still exists!
There is also a prerelease "Comfortable" (222 MB) here: ftp://ftp.campus.skelleftea.se/pub/mirror/tinysofa.org/tinysofa/prereleases/Comfortable.i386.iso
Anybody with free low-spec servers to test TinySofa "Ceara", "Odin" and "Comfortable"?
AFAIK, "Odin" features SELinux, Mono 1.1.4, PHP 5.0.3, Ruby 1.8.2, etc, whereas the "classic" server "Ceara" has grsecurity, and even SmartPM as an extra to APT.
22 • RE: 20 • Mandriva Linux 2007.1 (by Béranger on 2007-01-15 15:19:27 GMT from Romania)
Mandriva Linux 2007.1 is a DEVELOPMENT release, hence GNOME DEVELOPMENT version.
2.6.17 is a perfectly good kernel, thank you.
23 • RE: 22 Mandriva Linux 2007.1 (by ladislav on 2007-01-15 15:23:59 GMT from Taiwan)
Mandriva Linux 2007.1 is a DEVELOPMENT release
No, it's not. It will be a stable point release of 2007 and it will come in all the usual editions, such as Free, Discovery, PowerPack, etc.
24 • RE: 23 • RE: 22 Mandriva Linux 2007.1 (by Béranger on 2007-01-15 15:26:58 GMT from Romania)
Sorry: "2007.1 Alpha 1 is a DEVELOPMENT etc."
25 • No 12 Ken Yap (by Soggy on 2007-01-15 15:31:26 GMT from United Kingdom)
Progress, progress! Twenty five years ago we all had instant OS at switch-on with our embedded 8-bit systems. Then greedy b*st*rds like Gates came along and sold the OS separately. All downhill after that until Linus showed up. Puppy Linux has to be one of the fastest on all yardsticks.
26 • RE: # 23 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-01-15 15:42:29 GMT from Italy)
Ladislav wrote:
"No, it's not. It will be a stable point release of 2007 and it will come in all the usual editions, such as Free, Discovery, PowerPack, etc."
Thanks. I was going to reply the same to Beranger.
And so what about GNOME 2.17?
27 • Anonymous (by Topka Ull on 2007-01-15 15:51:50 GMT from United States)
(Comment deleted)
28 • Boot performances (by dbrion on 2007-01-15 16:13:28 GMT from France)
Thanks for the link to the article about murdur : this (and the subsequent links) led me to understand the (absence of) magics in tracing the boot process even when the disk is writeonly...
At least five methods of improving boot performances are quoted: if it gets widely spread, perhaps 4(0[0]) other methods will be distributed... (this seems to be the point with kde, gnome and their little brethren)... Except for exiting from a very deep hibernation, I do not see much interest with systems without _unscheduled_ stops (the rest is a matter of organisation)...
Comparison of boating times may be senseless if accomplished on different platforms, with different file systems, or with parts of hardware unplugged (IT : it can vary fom 10 mn to 2 hrs on a very old HP UX box used as a terminal; it is not unpleasant once one can organize oneself) :
on dual boot laptop, Mandriva 2006 (with a 2.6.17 kernel; it is a satifactory fix to an early purchase...) takes one minute less to boot than a Windows XP home, but MS Windows XP filesystem was fat32 (for dual boating...)....
On a 3 years older desktop, MICROSOFT Windows XP boots faster than the former linux, but her file system is NTFS...
Unless boot process uses many "sleeps" (and the criticism of this method is convincing) to synchronize, I fear performance are not that reprodicible..
BYTW [RE 2] I do not think Python is more likely than Perl to have future bugs: Mandriva Control Center is somewhat based on Perl, and nobody suffered AFAIK. Anyway, having two (or more) different technologies seems more failure resistent.....
I am not that anxious about Pardux future : after its nice aspects will have been tested by many ppl in the NL, Germany, (no French support)... I could bet she will be used by public services (who funded her) in Turkey : (I doubt they are that interested in multimedia codecs, that looks like 'le chant des sirènes').
29 • 28 • Boot performances (by Béranger on 2007-01-15 16:19:25 GMT from Romania)
> I do not think Python is more likely than Perl to have future bugs: Mandriva Control Center is somewhat based on Perl, and nobody suffered AFAIK.
I don't care about Python versus Perl in the Control Center.
I do care about Python versus /bin/sh during the SysV init!!!
30 • 2007 - the Year of the BSD Desktop! (by Wild Bill Hiccup on 2007-01-15 16:19:59 GMT from United States)
Great news that FreeBSD 6.2 is finally out! This gives an excellent base for PC-BSD and DesktopBSD to release updates of their 'regular user-oriented' operating systems on. PC-BSD in particular seems to be making very rapid progress, since the recent 1.3 release demonstrated a huge improvement over previous versions, easily justifying their corporate backing.
With FreeBSD 7.0 due out in the latter part of the year, there are certainly exciting times ahead in the BSD world - perhaps 2007 will come to be known as 'the year of the BSD desktop'?
31 • PS3 Debian Live CD (by Ciego on 2007-01-15 16:38:51 GMT from United States)
Just thought that I would point out the fact that Debian is not the first PS3 Live CD released. Gentoo Live CD for the PS3 has been out for several weeks now.
32 • RE 29 (by dbrion on 2007-01-15 16:39:36 GMT from France)
Both could lead to data loss and can be avoided by NOT updating once one is satisfied with ones system(S). I am very satisfied of K 2.6.17 , as you (# 22) .
33 • RE: 22 (by Synergy6 on 2007-01-15 16:40:20 GMT from United Kingdom)
I think #20 was referring to the ambiguity in treatment between two of the most important packages in a distro (kernel and IDE). I.e., one being relatively bleeding edge (Gnome 2.17) and the other being older than stable (Linux 2.17). Perhaps 2.16 and 2.6.18.6, or 2.17 and 2.6.20, would be more "in line", if nothing else.
Just out of interest, what is the advantage of 2.6.17 over 2.6.18.6?
34 • pardus will be intergalactic distro (by mk on 2007-01-15 16:51:17 GMT from Turkey)
I'm Pardus that since first version's release day
I can see their developing day to day.
firstly their mission was develop for "national linux [turkish] distro" but
they can't developinf just for national distro, they can just develop international distro and best easiliest quality format.
please use that ftp://ftp.surfnet.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/pardus/kurulan/2007/Pardus-Kurulan-2007.iso
PARDUS be different,join us
35 • Boot Time (by Dave on 2007-01-15 16:55:26 GMT from Canada)
Thanks #12 Ken and #25 Soggy. Right on! Thanks for saying it better than I would have.
36 • RE: 34 • pardus will be intergalactic distro (by Béranger on 2007-01-15 17:02:20 GMT from Romania)
> 34 • pardus will be intergalactic distro
Yeah, minus:
-- it will be illegal to be localized in Kurdish or to contain the string "Kurdish People";
-- it will be illegal to contain any text (not even a man page) that could be considered as a "denigration of the Turkishness" (see Art 301 of the Turkish Penal Code (TCK) and ask Orhan Pamuk about that);
-- it will be illegal to contain any text (not even a man page) that would make reference to the Armenian genocide or any referral to the ~30k Armenian killings, subject to the same §301 TCK.
Quite intergalactic, duh...
37 • Re: pardus will be intergalactic distro (by meren on 2007-01-15 17:32:41 GMT from United States)
> Yeah, minus:
>
> it will be illegal to be localized in Kurdish or to contain the string
> "Kurdish People"
No. It won't. Kurdish is okay to support as any other language, there is no formal difference about Kurdish:
http://bugs.pardus.org.tr/show_bug.cgi?id=4580
> it will be illegal to contain any text (not even a man page) that could be
> considered as a "denigration of the Turkishness"
Pardus is an open source project. Why would there be any text that could be considered as "denigration of the Turkishness" in an open source project? Is there any text that denigrates any nation in Mandriva, Fedora or any other distro? Why would there be?
> it will be illegal to contain any text (not even a man page) that would
> make reference to the Armenian genocide
Again, Pardus is an open source project, what is the relation between Armenian Genocide and an open source project? Is there any open source project which contains some texts about any genocide? Why would there be?
Pardus might not become an intergalactic distro, but the reason is not going to be these "minuses" you're talking about.
Ciao.
38 • Ethically, Pardus makes me uneasy RE 36,37 (by dbrion on 2007-01-15 17:45:41 GMT from France)
See http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20061009&mode=7
post 86; I read what they thought of my mother's language...
technically, I am very satisfied with Mandriva 2006 AND Windows XP (any working kernel will be in a more than stable state within 2 yrs..). Man texts should be restricted to technical aspects...
39 • Pardus (by nx user on 2007-01-15 17:57:02 GMT from Sweden)
Tried the livecd and found it quite good which encouraged me to go a head and download the installcd. I'll install and checkout how this unexpected distro really is.
Good luck to the developers for a work that looks well done so far.
40 • Re: Ethically, Pardus makes me uneasy (by meren on 2007-01-15 17:59:50 GMT from United States)
> I read what they thought of my mother's language...
You can't say that it's Pardus's thoughts about your mother's language. It's just a user; just an individual thought. I would think that it is not wise to judge a project by referencing an idea/opinion/claim which comes from a user of it.
Ciao.
41 • RE: 37 • Re: pardus will be intergalactic distro (by Béranger on 2007-01-15 18:29:41 GMT from Romania)
> Pardus might not become an intergalactic distro, but the reason is not going to be these "minuses" you're talking about.
Living in the USA is not the same as living in the Turkey. Get informed about what freedom of the press means in Turkye! Get informed about the infamous Art. 301!
Remember the story about the Kurdish Ubuntu? You seem to have a short memory.
Pardus should headquartered outside Turkey.
42 • Pardus - great job (by Emre Sokullu on 2007-01-15 18:33:37 GMT from United States)
Sounds promising! Will definitely give it a try!
Beranger - what's the point of discussing irrelevant politic issues here? This is "ridiculeux"!
43 • Solaris 10 (by Theodore Dreiser on 2007-01-15 18:55:52 GMT from United States)
Two questions:
1. How does Solaris 10 hardware detection compare to the leading
linux distros ?
2. what would be the compelling reason to use Solaris 10 rather
than one of the top linux distros ?
44 • boot times (by anonymous on 2007-01-15 19:26:41 GMT from New Zealand)
Booting should be a thing of the past. I want better hibernation/low power suspend modes so I can resume sessions quickly and easily.
45 • RE: 37 • Re: pardus will be intergalactic distro (by laissezfaire on 2007-01-15 19:49:17 GMT from United States)
Hey Beranger: your post (#37) finally explains why you have been busy posting negative comments about Pardus all morning. It is not really about any technical issue but it is all about your political views about Turks and Turkey. Well, your personal opinions do not concern anyone here under this topic. I encourage you to go and express these views in a relevant forum.
As for Pardus: It is being developed by "The Scientific and Technological Research Council of Turkey" and it is financially supported by the Turkish Govenment. I have been using it for the last month and I find it to be quite good. It is easy to install, easy to configure, and maintain. It detected all my hardware automatically. If you want a distro that is polished and that just works, all you have to do is to go ahead and try it:
http://www.pardus.org.tr/eng/index.html (homepage in english)
http://paketler.pardus.org.tr/pardus-2007/ (list of packages)
http://worldforum.pardus-linux.nl/ (Pardus Word Forum in English, Dutch and Turkish)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PISI (Pardus in Wikipedia)
http://www.pardus-oyun.org/ (Pardus games reviews site (in Turkish)
http://www.pardus-linux.nl/ (Pardus news site from Netherlands)
http://www.pardus.it/ (Pardus news site in Italian)
46 • RE: 36 (by IMQ on 2007-01-15 19:50:26 GMT from United States)
Béranger,
Chill out, dude.
The followings are taken from Pardus web site: http://www.pardus.org.tr/eng/info.html
and I quote:
Pardus Vision
It is necessary to define the area to be covered over time by the distribution in order to make various high level preferences and determinations.
* The distribution shall become an operating system distribution in the vertical markets with differing versions, in various use styles and areas, preferred, used and deployed in every sections of the society.
* Although a non-profit organization, a sustainable organization shall be created which can stand by means of the business models to be created and used, and with its own resources.
* The developers shall make original contributions to the Linux and open source society on a global scale by brining applicable and innovation solutions to the existing technological problems.
Pardus Aims
* To provide full Turkish support by making the character structure compatible to Turkish (UTF-8 compatibility) and by making all the messages and documents visible to users into Turkish.
* To ensure that it is an operating system which can be installed and used more easily than the existing Linux distributions and other competitive operating systems.
* Designing its in a modular configuration which can achieve the required flexibility and high performance with a task-based and human-focused approach rather than a tool-based and technology-based one.
End quote.
I don't see any of the stuff you mentioned in Pardus's vision and aims statements.
47 • RE: #8 (by Tazix on 2007-01-15 19:56:15 GMT from United States)
Huh?
You must have something seriously wrong with your XP installation... or you are loading a bunch of garbage at startup.
On a rig not much better than yours, I boot a fresh, full (uses about 120MB at desktop idle), install of XP in around 24 seconds, and after I optimize by turning unecessary services off, and running bootvis, it boots in about 18 seconds (and uses just under 100MB).
Try nLite.
http://www.nliteos.com
Slipstream all the service packs and hotfixes, eliminate garbage you don't want, and tweak a bunch of stuff. My latest nLite compilation runs only 16 processes and sits at around 70MB of RAM at desktop idle (With nvidia drivers, audio drivers and chipset drivers loaded). I haven't timed the boot, but it's comperable to the 18 seconds I mentioned, without running bootvis.
I haven't timed Xubuntu's boot either (Same machine... nicklocked seperate hard drive)... but it's definitely much longer than XP.
The point is... XP has a lot of room for tweaking (Not that I'm an MS fan). Heck, I'm basically running it in a 98SE footprint... which is awesome.
48 • RE:36 (by Synergy6 on 2007-01-15 19:57:14 GMT from United Kingdom)
>Yeah, minus:
>-- it will be illegal to be localized in Kurdish or to contain the string >"Kurdish People";
>-- it will be illegal to contain any text (not even a man page) that could be >considered as a "denigration of the Turkishness" (see Art 301 of the >Turkish Penal Code (TCK) and ask Orhan Pamuk about that);
>-- it will be illegal to contain any text (not even a man page) that would >make reference to the Armenian genocide or any referral to the ~30k >Armenian killings, subject to the same §301 TCK.
How many man pages contain references to "genocide"? Criticism which is in some *teeny-weeny* bit relevant (or logical) would be useful. Otherwise, for the purpose of this site and discussion, the points given are irrelevant. Unless we should decry Swiss distros, because they won't allow mentions of Belgian chocolates in their man pages...
Synergy6
49 • Pardus (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-01-15 20:04:50 GMT from Italy)
Politics and Linux? No thanks. The only reason why I don't see myself using Pardus is that I use only distros based on something with a huge repo (basically Debian and SUSE, Mandriva and Fedora also worth considering)
50 • RE 37 Thanks for the political aspect -I cross googled- (by dbrion on 2007-01-15 20:17:03 GMT from France)
but claiming it might be part of a -technical- man is "intergalactically astonishing"...
The -scientifical- aspect was very interesting and it is a good thing DWW linked to the article .
The -practical- aspect (slightly faster? boot times, nice KDE, just working with ones hardware) can be achieved better (without ethical reserves : does Pardus Lx fight paludism and support Freedom keyboards: Gates does) by Windows, and, now slightly better, by Mandriva 2006 (and I tried FC, Suze and live-CDs; in 2006, all of them had nice hardware detection *for me*, but I kept Mandriva and Windows, out of biodiversity) .
Boot times are interesting if one emulates or, perhaps, as a starting point for hibernation managing. Now, it seems somewhat marginal . "une conquête de l'inutile"...
51 • 43 (by lmf on 2007-01-15 20:27:51 GMT from United States)
I have the same questions as #43. Also, I have heard it is hard to get Solaris working properly. Is it as easy as a typical Linux distro to set up in a dual-boot environment? What is the software installation situation? Is it simple as with Debian?
A link to a good review article or introductory Solaris site would be nice. I wasn't particularly impressed with what's on Sun's site.
52 • Gentoo LiveCD for PS3 (by brewin on 2007-01-15 20:46:19 GMT from United States)
> "Takeshi Yaegashi has announced the release of what appears to be the first Linux live CD designed for the Sony PlayStation 3"
No, there has been a Gentoo LiveCD for a while.
http://overlays.gentoo.org/proj/cell/wiki/InstallGentooOnPS3
53 • Re 56 "politics does not belong here" (by dbrion on 2007-01-16 00:02:40 GMT from France)
When a Linux distr is technically equivalent to ~30 others (it boots faster?? maintenance is easier?) , esthetically superior (it is a matter of taste, anyway), what remains serious?
When I read all the concerned whining after Novell and Microsoft marriage (and, AFAIK, MS did not put anyone in prison because he did speak an unofficial language, as did [friend of Mussolini] Franco do 33 yrs ago in Catalunya..) , I think of politics... By googling "Ubuntu Kurdish", for example, I think it would not be a matter of pieces of chocolate or of patatoes , but a matter of _freedom_ (as in not in jail for linguistic specificities) if Pardus Lx was married with the Turkish government and it must be recalled....
Anyway, it would be a good idea to have a man with chocolate ("man" learns how to do things....).
If linux loovers are so childish, there remains (sorts_of)BSD: Frenzy BSD seemed appealing to me as a live CD (everything I qemulated worked) and the fact that xx_BSD_based_liveCDs can be really living is more than promising : 2 yrs ago, 1/10 of Linux liveCDs worked OOTB, now it is 9/10. After, one can try real dual (multi) boat installations and xxxBSD will be perhaps able to maintain biodiversity / Windows (if one OS breaks, the other may rescue the data, even without CDROM player).
RE 51,43 : I hope it is just a matter of time (I could not start Belenix )
54 • Mandriva joins the list of DistroWatch page hit ranking cheaters (by ladislav on 2007-01-16 01:02:05 GMT from Taiwan)
When I woke up this morning and checked the page hit stats for yesterday, I noticed an unusually high number of clicks on the Mandriva page - a total of over 8,000 unique hits. So I went to investigate and what do I find? Some clever Mandriva web master embedded an invisible iframe into http://start.mandriva.com/ which transparently loads the Mandriva page on DistroWatch and registers a hit! Check the source code of that page - you'll find the iframe right at the bottom of the page!
Man, I can't believe how clueless some people can be! This is the worst kind of manipulating the page hit ranking because these iframes give no credit to DistroWatch and don't send people to visit DistroWatch, but generate a huge amount of unnecessary traffic for the DistroWatch server. When Freespire tried something similar not long ago, at least they sent people directly to DistroWatch, so the visitors had a chance to see this site. But what Mandriva has done now is almost like a DDoS attack, with no benefit to DistroWatch at all!
Anyway, the start.mandriva.com referrer is now blocked on the web server level and I also reset the Mandriva's page hit counter from yesterday to 0 (the front-page page hit ranking table will only reflect this change tomorrow though).
What a way to start a day! There are new releases of ZenLive, Arch Linux, IPCop, Devil-Linux, Kurumin Linux and FreeSBIE and I have to waste time with this! Incroyable!
55 • Pardus (by Pumpino on 2007-01-16 01:12:20 GMT from Australia)
Thanks heaps for the Pardus review, Ladislav. I'm very happy with both OpenSUSE and Kubuntu but have been a little itchy to discover another distro that meets my needs lately. I tried Arch but couldn't get X working and don't want to waste time on a distro that makes it that hard. After reading your review of Pardus, I've read the two reviews linked on DistroWatch on the Pardus page, and it sounds very promising indeed. I was very impressed to find the latest packages for Firefox, Thunderbird, Kaffeine, K3b and the 2.6.18.6 kernel available in the packages link you posted. I downloaded the ISO and will install it after work today!
56 • RE: 20 (by johncoom on 2007-01-16 01:37:24 GMT from Australia)
Anonymous Penguin from Italy wrote:
"It is not like me, but in this case I am a bit lost.
Kernel 2.6.17? Why such an old kernel?
GNOME 2.17??? For years I have always known that odd version numbers indicate development status.
Can anybody help, please?"
Re: your comment on the odd version numbers
This ONLY applies to the Kernel - not things like KDE or Gnome or apps
Where the pattern is Kernel X.Y.Z it is ONLY if Y is an odd # (not X or Z)
Does that help you ?.
57 • Version numbers (by Pumpino on 2007-01-16 01:47:34 GMT from Australia)
Odd version number for Gnome ARE development versions. Gnome 2.17 is the beta of what will become 2.18 stable!
58 • Mandriva cheats (by towsonu2003 on 2007-01-16 01:59:53 GMT from United States)
They have a tendency to do weird stuff...
Did you inform their PR yet?
http://www.mandriva.com/en/company/contact/community
http://www.mandriva.com/en/company/contact/website
don't forget to post the reply as a distrowatch news item...
PS. This is the source we should be looking at, right?
59 • RE: 54 Mandriva joins the list of DistroWatch page hit ranking cheaters (by ladislav on 2007-01-16 02:12:25 GMT from Taiwan)
Well, it looks like the Mandriva web masters are still awake. Somebody must have alerted them about my post and they have now removed the iframe code.
60 • Mandriva crazy (by Bill Savoie on 2007-01-16 02:35:57 GMT from United States)
Thanks Ladislav. They can fool some of the people, but you are awake! Thank you for exposing the games people play, when they care too much about winning at all costs. So serious they are with self importance. They miss the interconnected web of which we are all apart. Your current attention may now allow them a chance to change. Still with this unethical direction exposed, it might be good to look deep into the source code they ship out. Ethics is the last step on the path of spiritual growth. Until they discover we are all one, they try to cheat. No inner peace from that path.
61 • RE: # 56 & 57 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-01-16 02:37:22 GMT from Italy)
Thanks both. However Pumpino does convince me. johncoom does not. What you write about the kernel no longer applies, since a long time.
62 • #'s 43 & 51Solaris (by warpengi on 2007-01-16 02:45:36 GMT from Canada)
Well to answer your questions why don't you order and try the media kit? I did. It's free. One thing I'm really interested in is trying Zones. I like to mess with virtualization and this seems like a neat way to do it.
63 • 61 (by warpengi on 2007-01-16 02:58:46 GMT from Canada)
You're right. Since kernel 2.6 there is no separate development branch of the kernel tree. There was 2.3 version of the Linux kernel that became 2.4 when it was released as stable and I presume a 2.1 that was released as 2.2. That no longer happens. The current development kernel is (I think) 2.6.20 and when it is stable will become the stable release 2.6.20. The current stable release is 2.6.19 and 2.6.17 is not very old.
64 • RE: 57 • Version numbers (by johncoom on 2007-01-16 04:02:47 GMT from Australia)
Pumpino thanks for pointing that out - I stand corrected re: Gnome vers #
But with KDE this is not the case that odd number are development
versions - I am using KDE 3.5.5 - just thought it was the same for Gnome
65 • RE: 61 + 63 (by johncoom on 2007-01-16 04:14:31 GMT from Australia)
There you go guys you know more than me (or I'd read about and forgot it)
I must be getting old :-(
66 • Version numbers (by Pumpino on 2007-01-16 04:58:56 GMT from Australia)
Yeah, I use KDE 3.5.5 as well. Different packages do it differently, unfortunately. The reason I know Gnome 2.17 is beta is that Ubuntu always includes the beta version in its Herd releases prior to the next release of Ubuntu, by which time Gnome has become stable (and renamed 2.18).
As for Mandriva using a 2.6.17 kernel, I too find it strange. Given that by the time it's released, 2.6.20 will well and truly be stable, why not base their beta releases on 2.6.20-rc5 like Ubuntu is doing? That way, by the time it's released, the main part of the OS isn't so old!
67 • Mandrivas kernels and numerology (by dbrion on 2007-01-16 05:24:53 GMT from France)
I use a Mandriva 2006 with a k2.6.17 kernel (the native 2.6.12 kernel did not work with a PCMCIA / USB card : this hardware was sufficiently regognised to have a black screen ; the 2.6.14 kernel i donloaded from cooker (and installed using urpmi ) fixed that; I added a 6.17 to get newer hardware , but it did not work... but did no harm....
Each time, lilo was correctly updated....
68 • Re #43 & 51 Solaris 10 (by rglk on 2007-01-16 05:54:29 GMT from United States)
Theodore Dreiser had two questions:
1. How does Solaris 10 hardware detection compare to the leading
linux distros ?
2. what would be the compelling reason to use Solaris 10 rather
than one of the top linux distros ?
I'm very far from being an expert on Solaris 10 but I've followed the development of this OS ever since Sun opened the source and created OpenSolaris, and I'm particularly interested in OpenSolaris distros such as Belenix and Nexenta that use the Solaris 10 kernel and the GNU/Linux userland. Solaris 10 is without a doubt the technically most advanced and potentially most secure *nix OS but Sun's principal technical innovations aren't particularly relevant when you run Solaris 10 as a desktop OS.
Re 1: Doesn't compare at all.
Re 2: No compelling reason.
Re multibooting Solaris 10 with other OS's including Linux: If I remember correctly it can be done but you can't access the file systems of the other OS's from within Solaris 10. Also disk partitioning in Solaris 10 is not very accommodating of other OS's. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Don't get me wrong: Solaris 10 and Belenix and Nexenta are worth keeping an eye on; they may eventually get to be preferable to Linux distros but they're not there as yet or may never get there. I was all gung-ho on making the switch but then decided to stick with Linux. The benefits of running Solaris 10 or just its kernel just weren't worth the difficulties and frustration. For now I'm very happy with Arch Linux.
Robert
69 • Dont try to marr the beauty (by sonsuz on 2007-01-16 07:05:12 GMT from Turkey)
Pardus is doing a great job, They have the guts to change most of the things taht other distros couldndt. They changed the entire init system, packaging system, configuration management system, Pardus also has very polished visuals and theme and also a fast growing software repository. It is GPL and eager to collaborate with other distros.
Please post irrelevant political messages to somewhere else.
70 • 21/20 • RE: • SME server (by mcp_dk on 2007-01-16 08:20:58 GMT from Germany)
@Beranger
I don't know if SME is _MUCH_ better than CentOS serverinstall, and i don't think i claimed anywhere that i was _MUCH_ better. SME is based on CentOS but is very different in the administration and in the templatesystem. What i wrote is that SME is unique (in my opinion). Tinysofa seems like an interesting distro but why you brought that into this other than you feel that it is overlooked too i don't know.
@Ladislav.
Thanks for pointing that out. Sometimes i forget that i have as much obligation and opportunity to voice my opinion as anyone else.
71 • Pardus (by Pumpino on 2007-01-16 10:16:06 GMT from Australia)
I've given Pardus a good spin. It's quite responsive but there are a couple of things I don't like about it. One is that some packages are not available. For example, Acrobat Reader, gFTP and Fortune.
The other is a design flaw in the package manager. Packages are grouped according to available updates, installed packages and new packages available. If you don't know whether or not a package is installed or whether it's available in the repo, you actually have to search twice for it - once under each tab. This is not a good thing. Synaptic doesn't have such a flaw. Neither does Smart, for that matter. Finally, I couldn't get my standard video card and monitor to display a resolution higher than 800x600.
I'm glad I tried it, but I'll be sticking with Kubuntu and OpenSUSE. :)
72 • Free Solaris 10 DVD (by Luiz on 2007-01-16 11:24:24 GMT from Brazil)
I checked the address of the page which have the form to be filled in order to receive the free DVD with Solaris 10, and I found it a little bit strange.
The main URL address is from www2.sun.de, which is not the main site from Sun. If one try http://www.sun.de, you will be redirected to http://de.sun.com. If one try www2.sun.de instead, you'll get a page with German speaking, closer to Sun's typical pages. I couldn't figure out what it is written, but it seems to be reminding that the page was moved to somewhere. But *very* strange is that the IP from www2.sun.de (212.125.100.87, as nslookup tells me) seems not to be from Sun (I checked http://www.ripe.net/whois).
Maybe I am quite paranoid, but can somebody tell me for sure if it is safe to fill the form and send it? Or maybe I did something wrong?
Tks.
73 • RE: 72 • Free Solaris 10 DVD (by Béranger on 2007-01-16 14:25:19 GMT from Romania)
Go to http://developers.sun.com/sunstudio/downloads/ and click the orange button.
OR:
Go to http://www.sun.com/solaris/freemedia
You will reach the German-based page http://www2.sun.de/dc/forms/reg_us_2211_391.jsp, so it's an original one.
74 • RE: some packages are not available. (by Béranger on 2007-01-16 14:30:21 GMT from Romania)
> For example, Acrobat Reader, gFTP and Fortune.
Acroread can be installed in any distro using the "upstream" installer:
http://ardownload.adobe.com/pub/adobe/reader/unix/7x/7.0.9/enu/AdobeReader_enu-7.0.9-1.i386.tar.gz
gFTP is GTK+-based, and GIMP seems to be the only the only GTK app provided by Pardus.
Fortunes? Got Slack? :-))
75 • Re: some packages are not available. (by Ariszló on 2007-01-16 15:07:47 GMT from Hungary)
You can do without gFTP if you have Konqueror.
76 • SABAYON (by Frank on 2007-01-16 15:16:22 GMT from United States)
.......I wish Sabayon was base on debian
77 • The Dark Horse, Package Number, Solaris (by Justin Whitaker on 2007-01-16 15:27:42 GMT from United States)
1. In my recent test of PC-BSD, I am very much intrigued by the whole BSD thing. The license seems pretty clear to me, which makes me wonder why all the fuss?
I agree with Beranger, but probably would not have added a personal attack on Scott's critique. I think the writing speaks for itself, without the added denigration. There are many, many bad lawyers, and judging from the flawed reasoning exhibited in this piece, Scott may be among them.
2. Since when does the number of packages equate with quality? That smacks to me of the sort of machismo that relishes comparisons of member size.
The number of packages does not matter: what matters is, are the packages in the repository the ones you need? PCLinuxOS is a perfect example of this, Puppy Linux, Slax are others.
Give me 2000 guaranteed to work applications that I absolutely have to have, as opposed to 15000 applications that people have compiled but not checked. Quality v. Quantity, and all that.
These sort of dire predictions "there aren't enough packages, it's going to die" are just silly.
3. Thanks for the Solaris links!
78 • RE: # 76 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-01-16 16:36:29 GMT from Italy)
"I wish Sabayon was base on debian"
Me too, very much so.
Fabio, if you read this, what do you think?
79 • politics vs. open source (by pfpearson on 2007-01-16 16:58:43 GMT from United States)
While I don't care to discuss politics in the abstract here, I believe Béranger's comment has some validity: the Turkish government has shown a strong hand over what is considered "acceptable" speech. Please recall the two definitions of freedom in the OSS world: (1) free as in beer, and (2) free as in speech. It sounds like "free as in speech" is in question if the Turkish government is controlling the software.
This is not a criticism of Turkey, or a statement comparing Turkey (either favorably or not) to any other government. I'm merely showing that Béranger has a valid point (the correctness of the point may be debated).
80 • Re: 54; How about a hall of shame for dww cheats? (by kilgoretrout on 2007-01-16 17:05:00 GMT from United States)
It's obvious that some cheating/gaming the system has gone on for some time when it comes to DWW page hit rankings, but this one from mandriva takes the cake. You reference others that you've caught. How about making a DWW "Hall of Shame" listing the other cheaters and a brief description of their particular cheat. It might even make for a nice article.
81 • No subject (by mk on 2007-01-16 17:05:39 GMT from Turkey)
linux and OUR distros won't be a partical of political and stupid things?
these are free and cool ,
hastır La vista that means of english . fcuk off vista ;)
have open Days ;)
82 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2007-01-16 17:49:22 GMT from Turkey)
It seems to be a little bit confused people thinking about package management systems. Using RPM does not simply make your system available to install every RPM package you find... SuSe, Redhat or Mandriva RPM's are far away from each other. Every of them are optimized for their host distro so basicly Mandriva is using Mandriva repos either...
83 • RE 79 the weakness of your argumentation lies in the unknown link (by dbrion on 2007-01-16 17:52:40 GMT from France)
between Pardus and the T. govnt...
From the link given by 47 (sorry to _add_ more lines I did not write)
(
<<
Why Pardus?
The following observations are revealed when we examine the place of the operating systems in the area of information technology in our country, the sectors they indirectly affect and their relations with the development motion in general:
An operating system is required on which critical applications can work for the purpose of national defense, security and savings, which supports an open and standard data structure, whose source code is open as to allow for security monitoring and which can be deployed without suffering any financial burden.
>>
)
,It seems that Pardus has some kind of contract with the Turkish government, leading to some kind of loyalty, of course.
However, _noone_ can know how far this loyalty would go if the Turkish govnmt decided to 'control the software'. That is a matter of ones opinions (mine has been done 3 months ago), not of cross exploring... "I cannot prove something which may happen in the future (but I stay defiant)"..
Sorry, (RE 69) but this has nothing to do with esthetics ( this is another point)
From the knowledge /scientifical point of view I maintain I learnt something from their article and her links...
84 • fooling everywhere (by romain on 2007-01-16 18:26:15 GMT from France)
If this may stop any rumor of supposed evilness from the corporate (or Mandriva) side, the iframe code was added yesterday by an intern that obviously thought it was worth it to fool the ranks that way and that it mattered, btw (the justification being taken from http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20061113#phr ; I'm not sure that's was the best idea).
I cannot pass all my interns through an ethics filter before putting them to work. No need to say this guy's got some bashing here. We're still keeping him, there's some work for him left, in a less critical environment.
Still, I am not sure this is a real big issue, we will just start over from the ground, if that's the price...
Btw, you are welcome to check our code (be it the distribution, the tools or the web), and even contribute! That's not just a commercial product, there's something behind it. :-)
85 • 78 (by Anonymous on 2007-01-16 18:28:33 GMT from United States)
> The number of packages does not matter: what matters is, are the packages in the repository the ones you need? PCLinuxOS is a perfect example of this, Puppy Linux, Slax are others.
Perhaps for you these distros have the packages you need. They do not have my packages. And some of the packages are rather old and should not count.
The number of packages does matter if you are trying to convey information in a form suitable for a general audience. Debian is probably a superset of the packages in PCLinuxOS.
I agree in principle with your statement, but as a practical matter a user is more likely to have a specific package available in Debian than in PCLinuxOS. Additionally, you don't know in advance which packages you will need. There is a greater probability Debian will have those packages than will a different distro.
86 • 84 (by lmf on 2007-01-16 18:32:19 GMT from United States)
If you promise to break the intern's arm, we'll call it even. (Just kidding)
87 • Pardus (by Behçet on 2007-01-16 18:50:23 GMT from Turkey)
As I am being a Türk, living in Türkiye and using linux, I did not install/use PARDUS. But in my opinion PARDUS is not a distro for goverment (as mentioned
above). Goverment may use a variance of PARDUS isn't this normal?
In their maillist, PARDUS developers explained that if anyone wants to see Kürtçe (Kurdish) PARDUS, as usual, as like as other translations, %80 of Kürtçe
translation must be produced. Then they will immediately include Kürtçe in their distro. I think this is very clear.
There is racism in Türkiye, could you please tell me which land (have nations living togather) does not have racist people? This is same as nazis in
germany, same as white-black problem in u.s., spain, portugal etc. Sometimes racist ideas being goverment, sometimes not isn't this normal?
There is different things about being a Türk enemy, that I never understand.
88 • Re. 75 (by Pumpino on 2007-01-16 20:40:43 GMT from Australia)
How does one use Konqueror like gFTP? Thanks.
89 • #85 (by Justin Whitaker on 2007-01-16 21:36:28 GMT from United States)
PCLinuxOS is rpm based, not .deb based...actually, it's mostly rolled by Texstar now, although you can run some Mandriva or Fedora rpms on it. The applications in the repository are mostly old, that is true...
But your get to the heart of the question: what does one actually need? We could probably hash that out in 10 minutes or so, at least in general:
Some type of office suite (Open Office, Abiword+Gnumeric)
A decent media player (Amarok, Banshee, Mplayer, VLC)
LAMP
WINE
Drivers
Firefox+Flash/Java plugins
Bit Torrent/FTP/P2P
GIMP
Something like Picassa (Gwenview, LPhoto, Digikam)
That would cover something like 80% of desktop users. Now, we could debate which ones all day...it really doesn't matter. The point that I am getting at is that for the average user, these packages and their dependencies are nowhere near the 10000+ level.
So pointing out that Pardus has only X many packages and therefore sucks because older projects like Debian, FreeBSD, Gentoo have > 10,000 is illogical if they have the right packages.
As for the Politics of it....who cares? Does it serve the Turkish market? Can we in the West get some benefit from it?
All good then.
90 • #87 we don't all fit (by Bill Savoie on 2007-01-16 22:27:34 GMT from United States)
Yes everywhere there is poor understanding. Here in Alabama I am a Buddhist going to a workshop (Feb 8) with Shaikh Kabir Helminski is his wife Camille, They are the founders of the Threshold Society; an educational foundation rooted in the Mevlevi Sufi tradition. Kabir began his Mevlevi training as a student of the late Shaikh Suleyman Loras, he was then subsequently appointed a Shaikh by the late Dr. Celaleddin Celebi of Istanbul, Turkey, head of the Mevlevi Tariqa (Order) and twenty-first generation descendant of Mevlana Jalaluddm Rumi. Under Kabir's direction The Mevlevi Order is working to apply traditional Sufi principles to the conditions of contemporary life. So we are all interconnected by more than LInux.
91 • Re: #88 - Konqueror as an FTP client (by Ariszló on 2007-01-16 23:40:38 GMT from Hungary)
Pumpino asks: How does one use Konqueror like gFTP? Thanks.
You use it differently. Launch Konqueror in browser mode (globe with gears) and type the url of the ftp site in the title bar. Then launch another instance of Konqueror in file management mode (home icon) and drag and drop files and folders between the two windows.
If you have R&W access to the ftp site then you may even create new files or edit old ones there, just like on your own machine.
Why use two different apps for local and remote file management if one is enough?
92 • Re: #76, #78, wish SABAYON was....... (by Flying Penguin on 2007-01-17 00:29:54 GMT from Canada)
NO --- unlike #76, #78 -- i rather wish SABAYON was based on Slackware. And i hope Fabio reads this ;-)
93 • LINUX MINT (by Lycan at 2007-01-17 00:36:15 GMT from United States)
my comment goes to my favorite NEW DISTRo..
I tried it today at my workstation and also my 1st day at work and I loved it.. Running there.. and will install it in my home pc
94 • Re:85 + 89 old RPM's (by Anonymous on 2007-01-17 06:18:05 GMT from Australia)
There's a reason why they are old (and they are not that old in reality)
The last versions repository has been Frozen for several months !
Why would the developer (and his very few dev's) have done that ?
No road map exists for another good reason, as that often = slack work
Which ALWAYS seems to happen when distro's have dead lines to meet
You got the Hint yet - DO NOT ASK WHEN - it will be ready when its ready
IMHO this is the way all distro's should be produced, not to artificial dead lines
95 • RE: 93 • LINUX MINT (by Anonymous on 2007-01-17 07:08:13 GMT from Romania)
> my favorite NEW DISTRo..
> ...and I loved it..
Linux Mint is just an Ubuntu, only stripped down to meet the ideological FSF's requests. If you liked it, you actually liked Ubuntu.
Oh, or was it about politics?
96 • Re: 95 (by Anonymous on 2007-01-17 08:34:44 GMT from Germany)
Actually, the opposite is true. Mint includes/assists users in using codecs and drivers that the fsf frowns upon.
It is a great idea, but *buntus are not ready for me yet.
97 • Dream Linux is a dream come true! (by Linuxman on 2007-01-17 11:39:03 GMT from Poland)
Hi Everyone! After trying a "lot" of live distros and not really finding the "right" fit, Dreamlinux finally came along and made my Linux dreams a reality. It has excellent hardware detection and a goregous XFCE desktop which is really fast! The "dream team" from Brazil proves that one doesn't need KDE to desgin a killer desktop that is both functional and looks great. I love the Mac OSX- like look of this distro and it trouble-free hardware detection.
The only "criticism" of the this distro is why didn't they include the newest version of Open Office 2.10 and Firefox 2???
I would strongly urge everyone to try this great looking and stable distro!
98 • Dream Linux - nice job! (by Tervel on 2007-01-17 20:38:02 GMT from Austria)
I installed Dreamlinux yesterday and i have to say that I'm pretty impressed.Fast(on Amd 1 Ghz, 512 Ram), nice look (XFCE), good selection of software.I'm not used to work with Thunar, but it is not bad.
About the hardware detection - I had Matrox G450 Dual inside, it was not detected properly.After I spent some time looking for sotuion in forums, I tryed to install the Matrox driver for Linux - i was not lucky. I booted Ubuntu 5.10 live cd - Matrox card was detected properly.I changed the video card(Savage3 instead Matrox) - and DreamLinux had no problems at all.
Dreamlinux uses the Debian repositories, has a Kanotix kernel , Knoppix hardware detection and Morphix hdd installer (it installed amazingly fast!).Till now no crashes.Very user friendly and intuitive Control center.The Makedistro Tool looks good I'm gonna test it soon.Overall very polished, user friendly interface with the power of Debian behind.Take a look, i think you'll like it.
99 • Dream Linux (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-01-17 21:17:46 GMT from Italy)
It might be the best thing after sliced salami, but until it fails to install GRUB to the root partition it is absolutely worthless for me. Nothing on earth will ever convince me to touch the MBR.
Actually there are a few distros which fail when it comes to installing GRUB/LILO to the root partition, but none among the top ones.
100 • Dreamlinux, Archlinux & Other (by Ricardo / RR_Fang on 2007-01-17 21:58:39 GMT from Brazil)
I have to admit too, Dreamlinux is a great distro... Not all that stable, Synaptic may give some trouble on this new release, but it's surely well polished, nice looking, and pretty fast. I had some problems with it in the past, but i like it very much... And as it has Portuguese support by default, it is great for an average user in Brasil, i always end up suggesting it for most people i know.
I'm currently using Archlinux on my computer, finally managed to install and customize it, and found it to be almost perfect/ideal for me... It just lacks some Portuguese support (i do not need translated programs, only the dictionary for office apps), but not a major problem for me at this moment.
Also testing FreeBSD on a VM (looks to be very stable, but it's a bit different from Linux, i am learning a lot while trying to set it up from a minimum install) and ordered a free Solaris 10 DVD some days ago (once again, want to learn a little about it, and see how it differs, even on trial and error). I still like to check out new and different stuff, and i may think about writing reviews in portuguese, but thanks to Arch, my distro hopping days are almost a fact in the past :-P
101 • NEW kernels of Mandriva linux 2007.0 (by dbrion on 2007-01-18 13:08:20 GMT from France)
>
If it works , why not ? (C'est dans les vieux tonneaux qu'on fait le meilleur vin). In the less cool case (no IT connection) you can google "Mandriva cooker download" from a cybercafé, get, say
"kernel-linus-2.6.18.2-1mdv-1-1mdv2007.0.i586.rpm" and bring it at home (sorry one cannot download a nice teeshirt and a US BK)
From a root konsole, type
urpmi kernel-linus-2.6.18.2-1mdv-1-1mdv2007.0.i586.rpm
wait a moment and restart (lilo will be updated)
At the next reboot, you will have choice betw the 'old' kernel and the new one; you PC will get a nice golden color, but it might fade....
<>
It is more complicated (dependencies) : if you like Gnome, it might lead to suicide.. Else, why upgrade?
102 • 101 was RE 20... (by dbrion on 2007-01-18 13:33:17 GMT from France)
This was tested on an image with 368 M RAM (and KDE working, her memry ?greediness ? being not a bottleneck in this case)..
At line 8, change you (PC) to youR (PC)....
103 • Re #102 (by linbetwin on 2007-01-18 15:00:01 GMT from Romania)
And at line 6, change "linus" to "linux". ;)
104 • re 103 : And at line 6, change "linus" to "linux". ;) (by dbrion on 2007-01-18 15:32:39 GMT from France)
No : else I should have rename the files in an UsB device to be able to cust and pat. (I do not contest Mandrivas naming 'policy?' details, as long as it works; I doubt IE would make a joke...)
By the way, I noticed all the GNU/Linux new live CDs were living this year, and that cut'n paste was supported (it is a way of bypassing unpleasant localisation pbs when trying some bash....).
I was surprised by VMplaying or qemulating xxBSD live CDs as they were, they seemed to be well alive, too and many have more compilers (gcc, gfortran for Olive) than registered; anyway, they still have got little pbs (localisation, no automount, no cutting and pasting betw. konsoles ) which may be fixed, on my side, by reading > 700 pages { the presence of a compiler on a live CD is of little matter on the beginning, but , as live CDs can be used to incit to install, it seems interesting to verify they exist).
105 • re: #99 (by ray carter at 2007-01-18 16:35:45 GMT from United States)
So how do you boot anything if nothing has ever touched your MBR??
106 • RE: # 105 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-01-18 17:43:02 GMT from Italy)
"So how do you boot anything if nothing has ever touched your MBR??"
Acronis OS Selector.
I know, it will give FLOSS purists the creeps, but I am a pragmatist.
107 • Kanotix, Sidux (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-01-18 18:05:29 GMT from Italy)
It is not official yet, but Kano has made up his mind: the next Kanotix will be Etch based. If you understand German you can read it in the forum.
Also, somebody wrote that Kano is satisfying the wishes of the users who remained loyal to him, as there was hardly any support for the other option: an Ubuntu base.
It is going to be hard, because every other developer/coworker left for Sidux.
Of course people can do what they want, but that left a bitter taste in my mouth: Debian Sid had become for some people worse than a fundamentalist religion, and when Kano announced a change of direction there was much talk of "rats leaving the sinking ship"
On the the other hand it was good that they split, as the "Sid Fundamentalists" had become incredibly arrogant, badly abusing anybody who dared to have a different opinion, thus making the forum very unpleasant.
108 • 105 (by Anonymous on 2007-01-18 18:12:18 GMT from United States)
How the hell does acronis make you a pragmatist? I hear that term misused so many times, but this probably takes the cake.
109 • RE: # 108 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-01-18 18:31:46 GMT from Italy)
It isn't that difficult to understand: I use proprietary applications when a see it fit.
Thus: pragmatist vs, purist.
110 • Re: Kanotix, Sidux (by Anonymous on 2007-01-18 19:18:44 GMT from United States)
I hope both Kanotix and Sidux get releases out soon.
The other releases that I am anxiously awaiting are Etch and PCLinuxOS .94.
111 • 109 (by Anonymous on 2007-01-18 20:44:39 GMT from United States)
pragmatic: practical as opposed to idealistic
proprietary != practical
Why not just say you use proprietary software? Not everyone agrees with that terminology. I use grub, should I say that makes me intelligent, implying anyone not using grub is stupid? It certainly doesn't seem very practical to me to use acronis.
112 • Kanotix, Sidux Part II (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-01-18 22:24:19 GMT from Italy)
http://sidux.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-961.html
That poem moved me to tears.
Please note: I am *not* ockham23, I have no clue who he is, but I want to thank him/her.
113 • RE: 88 --How does one use Konqueror like gFTP? (by IMQ on 2007-01-19 13:36:31 GMT from United States)
If you want to use konqueror as your ftp, do the following:
1. Open konqueror
2. Right-click on the any of the icon, for example the 'Home' icon. Then choose 'Configure Toolbars...' option
3. Scroll down the 'Available options' from the left panel and select 'Split View Left/Right' and drag it to the right panel.
4. Click OK.
You should see the new icon on the toolbar. Now click on the new icon and you now have two panels. You can then use one panel as you local and the other for connecting to a ftp site. To switch between panel, just click anywhere in that panel you want. To connect to a ftp site, enter the link in the location and hit 'Enter'.
I am not saying that it works like gFTP, but you can connect, brown, and download files from a ftp server. Basically konqueror is the browser for both local and remote locations.
114 • RE: 113 (by IMQ on 2007-01-19 13:38:25 GMT from United States)
Ooop! Got a typo.
It should be "you can connect, browse..."
115 • Berry Linux 0.78 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-01-19 14:49:11 GMT from Italy)
Can't be downloaded. 403 Forbidden
116 • Pardus and politics (by Erhan on 2007-01-19 22:19:17 GMT from Turkey)
I've been using linux for some time and haven't seen such a sad discussion about any other distro before. Please save any kind of political arguments to related forums.
As for Pardus Linux, I've been using it since the release of Pardus 2007, and I can easily say that I am more than satisfied. The project goal was to create a linux distro which satisfies the basic computing needs of an average user right out of the box and, IMHO, the Pardus team has done a terrific job regarding this issue. If you want a distro that just works and are free of political prejudice, then give Pardus a try.
117 • pragmatism (RE 111) (by dbrion on 2007-01-20 16:01:37 GMT from France)
IMHO, I think it comes from pragma, the fact in Greek. When I hear engineers saying 'let us be pragmatics', I am horrified, as they can only refer to _present_ facts ( and they are asked for a _future_ design).
For example, one can say 'I am more satisfied with (alph. order) "Mandriva, Pardus _or_ MICROSOFT WINDOWS XP)" (the latter being the most probable, it is a fact to_day; sorry for the > 30 linuxes I forgot ...for clarity...). ALL these claims are purely pragmatic. What will they mean to_morrow?
A bet on technical/scientifical/political/legal evolution can lead to a lang-lasting (perhaps conservative) choice, without affective/nationalist noise (softs are seldom choosen out of (dis)like...).
118 • re: 106 (by ray carter at 2007-01-20 16:17:28 GMT from United States)
According to what I read at the Acronis web site, it installs itself in the MBR - so you have indeed allowed something to write to your MBR - I guess what you meant to say was that you only allow Acronis to write your MBR. Frankly, I don't see a big advantage to that over GRUB (or Lilo, if you prefer).
119 • RE: # 118 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-01-20 19:11:41 GMT from Italy)
Basically what I meant in my original post was that I want only one boot manager to own the MBR. The advantages over GRUB are flexibility, ease of use and a lot of extra features (like recovery of lost partitions)
120 • what one is the best (by logan on 2007-01-21 07:24:11 GMT from United States)
What is the best program of linux to run on an older amd processer, to were it runs smoothly, if you know plz email me the name of the program. thank you very much
121 • what is the best.... (by Winfried on 2007-01-21 15:09:52 GMT from Germany)
That is the question of all qestions. When I asked that question once the answer I got was: "It depends" From my experience I can recommend:
1. SUSE 9.3 ( it is my favourite, because it is fast and slimmer than the newer versions)
2. Puppy Linux
3. DSL Linux
4. PC Linux OS
You will find all the links here on distrowatch and download the iso files.
Try the live version first and find out whether you like it or not.
All the best
122 • what is the best (by logan on 2007-01-21 17:11:45 GMT from United States)
would all of them work with an older Amd processer and still be up to date with the new software and everything respond if you know thank you
123 • RE: # 122 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-01-21 17:21:09 GMT from Italy)
"would all of them work with an older Amd processer and still be up to date with the new software and everything respond if you know thank you"
I believe Debian Etch+Xfce4 should satisfy those criteria.
124 • what is the best (by logan on 2007-01-21 17:38:39 GMT from United States)
how much ram would you suggest that would work all these program if you know thank you
125 • what is this (by logan on 2007-01-21 17:40:47 GMT from United States)
Debian Etch+Xfce4
126 • RE: # 124 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-01-21 17:50:05 GMT from Italy)
My suggested configuration should work with 128 MB, maybe less.
However if you can at all increase the RAM, that will be the best investment ever for your Linux based system.
127 • will this work for any linux (by logan on 2007-01-21 17:54:04 GMT from United States)
i have a Dell computer 550 Processer and128mb of ram will this work with any of linux programs and if i have to update ram how much will i need thank you
128 • RE: # 125 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-01-21 17:55:20 GMT from Italy)
Debian is one of the main Linux distributions.
Etch is the next stable release, it can be used already.
Xfce4 is a desktop environment, very nice and yet it doesn't need many resources.
129 • RE: # 127 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-01-21 17:58:53 GMT from Italy)
"if i have to update ram how much will i need"
The more the better, but 256 MB should be fine.
130 • would this work (by logan on 2007-01-21 18:15:33 GMT from United States)
would a 550 processer be high enought for linux. Do you know what is better the program you suggested or pc linuxOS, if you know thank you
131 • RE: # 130 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-01-21 18:54:15 GMT from Italy)
You mean a 550 MHz processor, right? It should be fine.
PCLinuxOS needs more resources, but it could work, especially if you increase the RAM as suggested.
132 • New PClinuxOS first impressions (by mikkh on 2007-01-21 22:28:02 GMT from United Kingdom)
In a word.... Superb
If this is a test release, can't wait to see the finished article
And for anyone who missed getting Berry before it disappeared. It contained an IE logo for Firefox (for some obscure reason) so I suspect the M$ gestapo are the reason for it being pulled
133 • RE: # 132 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2007-01-22 00:38:22 GMT from Italy)
"And for anyone who missed getting Berry before it disappeared. It contained an IE logo for Firefox (for some obscure reason) so I suspect the M$ gestapo are the reason for it being pulled"
Very intriguing...
134 • what is the minnimum req. (by logan on 2007-01-22 04:13:46 GMT from United States)
what is the min req for pc linuxos
do you know
135 • what is the minnimum req. (by logan on 2007-01-22 04:14:29 GMT from United States)
as far as ram is concerned
136 • Re: 134 + 135 (by johncoom on 2007-01-22 05:41:41 GMT from Australia)
PCLinuxOS all Full versions = 256 MB physical RAM
Click link above for my name - at the WiKi click HomePage to find other info
137 • so lemme get this straight, pc linux takes (by logan on 2007-01-22 08:10:57 GMT from United States)
about 7-10 gigs with all programs and what ever you install so if you want to be on the safe side your gona want like a 20-50 gig hd to allow for other programs and to keep up to date. PClinuxos will work with a 550 processer though and a minimum of 256 ram.
if i upgrade my ram to 256 it will think that its 512. correct is this a good idea to use this version of linux or not.
138 • RE 127/137 (by dbrion on 2007-01-22 08:40:30 GMT from France)
"if i upgrade my ram to 256 it will think that its 512". I think you are right, if you want to have one system; however, if you want to test more than one system (or if you think softs will be more and more memory greedy, or if you want to look at live CDs) you coukd try 768M/1 G . All the tests I make with qemu (can be easily installed by compiling) used _at most_ 256 Mo, and that was enough.
qemu takes about 20M, the rest is for the underlying system...
Neither qemu (simulates a CPU #10 times slower) nor VMplayer can give an idea of the smoothness of the _real_ system, but one can think 'it will be better when installed', except for live CDs (can start from an iso image, which is faster).
Number of Comments: 138
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