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1 • The only distro I want for Christmas (by follerec on 2006-12-11 10:05:39 GMT from Philippines) |
The only distro I want for Christmas is CentOS 5.x. I hope RHEL5 reaches stable soon.
2 • No subject (by Saga on 2006-12-11 10:12:32 GMT from United Kingdom)
Happy Christmas, Ladislav! You deserve a nice break. Thanks for another year of delightful distro commentary.
3 • Debian RC bug count (by Jonth on 2006-12-11 10:38:19 GMT from United Kingdom)
Your statement that the Debian RC bug count was >600 is incorrect. This figure refers to the unstable distribution. If you check http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ you should be able to see that the RC bug count for Etch (as of 11-Dec-06, 8:25) is 116, and is therefore pretty close to a hard freeze now (I think 100 RC bugs is the target to freeze the repository). It's still going to be late, but not that late.
If I was a betting man, I'd say Etch will be released towards the end of February.
4 • Debian Etch delays (by d00m3d on 2006-12-11 10:53:49 GMT from China)
Despite I am reluctant to say, Debian users used to see delays in new releases. I just wonder who and under what criteria that Dunc-Tank decided to pay the two big-money release managers?
5 • Debian Etch in progress (by sampo on 2006-12-11 11:29:44 GMT from Finland)
It looks like Debian 4.0 has just entered hard freeze today. I find this very good news even though I only use Debian Testing & Unstable. The longer the Stable release is delayed, the slower the progress in Testing/Unstable becomes.
Get this Debian 4.0 release out ASAP, so we can all go back to the normal routine of daily updates in Testing/Unstable.
6 • Firefox (by Abdulmajed Dakkak on 2006-12-11 11:45:22 GMT from United States)
The good thing is that the user could start over with a default firefox if he deleted his firefox directory. I cannot say the same thing for IE, however.
7 • Firefox extensions (by Caraibes on 2006-12-11 12:31:58 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Those are my regulars in Firefox extensions :
I also install a compact theme...
No problem whatsoever.
However, now that I think of it, I have Epiphany (with Adblock) on my Xubuntu laptop, and it is faster and more stable...
8 • SUSE 10.2 (by Peter Jones on 2006-12-11 12:46:21 GMT from United Kingdom)
Many thanks for the articles on multimedia for SUSE 10.2. The sticking point for me with Linux has always been multimedia, which I why I now use Ubuntu, becuase the Wiki gets you up and running with really good documentation. However the SUSE guide looks really good and I will certainly give it a go. Thanks for creating one of my top ten websites! Have a great Christmas.
9 • Debian (by Mike on 2006-12-11 12:50:27 GMT from United Kingdom)
Has Debian really been replaced now by Ubuntu ?
10 • 9 (by AC on 2006-12-11 12:59:26 GMT from United States)
How can Ubuntu replace Debian upon which it depends. That's absurd.
11 • Ulteo (by JJ on 2006-12-11 13:13:45 GMT from Germany)
“Very"quick Ulteo test:
- Live or Install in Kubuntu Style
- No way actually to update or install (synaptic or other are missing, not working) extra applications.
- The new “Connected Desktop” (sort of personal vitual deskop available from any machine with any OS) is actually not switched for public. Only for Beta registered users. It looks like it would be later a “pay for use” service :-(
So, what? …if you are waiting for a revolution, just wait for the next release ;-)
JJ from Berlin
12 • Firefox extensions (by Jesse on 2006-12-11 14:15:00 GMT from Canada)
Why in the world would someone install a few hundred
FireFox extensions? Of course it's going to make the browser
unuseable. FF is, I think, a good, solid browser, but installing a
pile of stuff on top of it is asking for trouble.
What would happen if you installed 200 plug-ins on IE? Or
a few hundred widgets in Opera? I wonder (thoguh not enough
to try it myself) how long it would take to load KDE with over
a hundred applets on the tool bar?
13 • Debian sid (by mann on 2006-12-11 14:24:52 GMT from Zimbabwe)
Waiting for Sidux . . .
14 • Happy holiday Ladislav (by Troy W. Banther on 2006-12-11 14:28:03 GMT from United States)
Happy holiday Ladislav. Thanks for a good year of Distrowatch!
15 • SUSE K Menu (by Ariszló on 2006-12-11 14:31:51 GMT from Hungary)
I prefer the standard K Menu. Hate using the scroll bar.
16 • Firefox (by Raul on 2006-12-11 14:33:48 GMT from India)
I agree with Jesse. Its absolutely ridiculous.
17 • Firefox (by Abel on 2006-12-11 14:47:06 GMT from United States)
That firefox looks a lot like IE... after you surf and install things that people "suggest" you install.
I can think of several:
and the list goes on.
I need 2... fasterfox and gmail checker... that's it. :-)
18 • Novell Marketing (by Anonymous on 2006-12-11 15:02:46 GMT from United States)
Marketing has always been Novells weakness. Thats what killed NetWare, which I always thought was far superior to Windows Server products. That also worried me when Novell acqired Suse, since I could see them doing to Suse what they did to NetWare. So it doesn't surprise me that they made no press release for OpenSUSE 10.2. Hopefully OpenSUSE will live on even if Novell kills the commercial SUSE.
19 • OpenSuSe 10.2 (by Gurito on 2006-12-11 15:20:55 GMT from Germany)
Two days ago I installed the new OpenSuSe...
Pretty dissappointed with the Gnome Menu --it looks great, but it's so slow to use. I found many troubles to install nvidia drivers --I know, non-oss, but using nv drivers is just too slow and crappy--, and when I did it, my touchpad stopped working. And, as always, Yast2 is terrible when trying to get new software. It solved dependencies, easy to add extra repositories, but so darn slow!
Anyway, that's just my humble opinion.
20 • No subject (by piper on 2006-12-11 15:38:18 GMT from United States)
"We are not a "Kanotix fork" at all. Actually, sidux is built from scratch using 100% pure Debian Sid, with completely new developed mastering scripts and all extra sidux-packages made Debian conform. We even strive very hard to keep all our code distro-neutral, so that every other Debian based distro could use it later on. We went even further by not using "sidux", but neutral terms for package names. We don't use "Knoppix technology" at all, and just very view GPLed code from Kanotix is used.
So, sidux is bleeding edge pure Debian (Sid), + newest vanilla kernel with needed patches, + working live-CD, + hdd-installer, + own scripts and packages (which are contributed to the Debian community), + artwork, + support & community, +++ ..."
21 • More openSUSE documentation (by Lim X.B on 2006-12-11 16:00:22 GMT from Singapore)
For those who need more help in getting started with openSUSE, visit http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation
For those who have tried openSUSE 10.2 and found any bugs, report it here http://en.opensuse.org/Report_a_Bug
22 • RE: "We are not a "Kanotix fork" at all. (by Béranger on 2006-12-11 16:02:20 GMT from Romania)
> sidux is bleeding edge pure Debian (Sid), + newest vanilla kernel with needed patches, + working live-CD, + hdd-installer, + own scripts and packages (which are contributed to the Debian community), + artwork, + support & community, +++ ..."
So, is Sidux going to be "a better *buntu"? What's new in that, except for not being backed by a billionaire?
23 • Re: # 12, 16, 17, 19 (by linbetwin on 2006-12-11 16:07:19 GMT from Romania)
To # 12, 16: I am sure the guy installed 200 extensions just to see what happens. I once tried to open all programs on a Vista Ultimate Beta 2, to see how fast it can eat my 1GB of RAM. Guess what, the slowdown was barely noticeable. BTW, judging from the screenshot, that Firefox is running under Vista.
Re: # 17: Remember that screenshot of IE7 laden with toolbars? Maybe that inspired this guy to install 200 extensions in FF.
Re: # 19: AFAIK, openSUSE 10.2 ships with a development release of xorg 7.2. NVIDIA hasn't released drivers for this version of xorg yet. I just found that out today and I wonder why am I still downloading 10.2 at this very moment. Oh well...
24 • 22 (by AC on 2006-12-11 16:07:36 GMT from United States)
So, is Sidux going to be "a better *buntu"? What's new in that, except for not being backed by a billionaire?
Full compatibility with Debian's repositories is a real plus to some, I am sure. And if it is released more often, it will be more current that Ubuntu. Plus, if it's not backed by a company that talks about freedom but doesn't really believe in it, that might be important to some.
25 • openSUSE, Utteo, Pioneer, etc. (by IMQ on 2006-12-11 16:30:01 GMT from United States)
In the past two weeks or so, I have tried out many of the newly announced distros. And my impression/opinions are:
Debian Etch - I tried the weekly-build dated 11-25-2006. I tested out the graphical installer. Basically, it had the same steps as the text mode. All went OK. I then added the multimedia enhancement repos found on apt-get.org. Debian wireless support for my card, Linksys rt2500-based, is not there while Ubuntu/Kubuntu has had them for couple releases now. Overall, Etch looks very promising.
Pardus 2007 RC - tried both the live CD and the install CD. The live CD was tested OK on 1 machine. The install CD was tested on a different machine that has internet capability via Ethernet card. After successful installation, the system rebooted into Turkish desktop. I changed the keyboard layout, then logged out then logged in. No luck. Reboot. No luck. So I stopped the testing. There was no forums on the homepage to post question so I stopped further testing the distro.
Ulteo - Downloaded and tried out the alpha release. From what I could see, there wasn't much differences between it and Kubuntu. I didn't try the hd-install option since, updating is not available after the initial installation. Maybe I misread. Just have to wait and see what new features will be added to differentiate it from Kubuntu.
Xpress Linux - If it was better than Kubuntu, my short time testing it did not reveal it. At least the general look-and-feel was about the same. I didn't have both Kubuntu and Xpress Linux on side-by-side comparison. Another word, nothing stood out.
VLOS - I tried out release 220.127.116.11 CD set. It installed OK on a nVidia and Intel based video card but having problem with ATI. On the ATI, after reboot, I got the "Unsecure Session" login screen. This also happened with the recently releases 1.3.1 RC1. I also tried to installed with no 3D and no nVidia/ATI option. Same problem. Just strange. On the machine with Intel integrated video card, it installed OK. However, it also had strange problem: I couldn't run as root in the console terminal or on anything that require root. It failed to accept the password. Yet I have no problem logging in as root using the same password! Another strange problem was mounting partition. While logging as root, I edited the fstab to add a mount point for one of the partition. Then I created a mount point under /mnt directory. However, when I tried to mount it, it system reported it was already mounted or busy. Huh?
openSUSE - installed on 2 machines. Both installed went OK. Both PCs have rt2500-based wireless PCI card. Both cards were detected during the installation process. The wireless values (essid, wpa passphrase, etc.) were enter and save. Yet I could not get internet access. A disappointment indeed. Since I just installed these last night, I haven't have time check thing out. However, it had a solid look-and-feel with just a few minute I have playing with it. I don't like the new openSUSE KDE menu. Too slow for me so I switched back the regular KDE menu.
Pioneer Linux - I didn't try this one since I didn't see anything described on their homepage compelling to download and tested. Of course with the exception of trial-ware on Cross-Over.
I hope we get back to distros discussion this week instead of "religious" debate on GNU/Linux last week.
26 • Novell did post a press release (by Rob Williams on 2006-12-11 16:36:04 GMT from Canada)
... in both the US and Canada, possibly others.
27 • Ulteo (by Brandon on 2006-12-11 16:38:37 GMT from United States)
I read that Ulteo is going to offer some versions of theier OS that you have to pay for, I wonder if they are going to follow Mandrivia in that respect?
28 • No subject (by yu tilde at 2006-12-11 16:58:04 GMT from United States)
"So, is Sidux going to be "a better *buntu"? What's new in that, except for not being backed by a billionaire?"
a african word for "can't install debian"
freespire is better than any of the tu's (ubuntu should not be in the same class as debian !!!)
29 • When Vista (by Ted Newgent on 2006-12-11 17:13:42 GMT from United States)
goes on sale Jan.30, inside the box there will be also a free cd of
OpenBalmerLiniux 10.2 for your enjoyment.
30 • Ulteo liveHD (by Ariszló on 2006-12-11 17:21:26 GMT from Hungary)
Ulteo has next to nothing in the traditional directories. Almost everything is on the "liveHD", which is a file in /boot/yuch:
31 • Firefox (by Anonymous on 2006-12-11 17:40:37 GMT from Canada)
I think if you have 200 addons or extensions in most programs, they also will take a long time to start, eats up a lot of memory and become barely usable. The point I see is that Firefox does not crash! What a fine piece of quality software!
32 • #3 • Debian RC bug count - by Jonth (by Gary on 2006-12-11 17:51:11 GMT from United States)
Where on earth in this entire page did you read that the Debian RC bug count was > 600? Unless this page was edited before I read it. I certainly couldn't find that statement. Perhaps it was taken out after the update?
33 • Firefox (by RompeRatones on 2006-12-11 17:51:35 GMT from Argentina)
I use konqueror and then firefox as my fallback browser, so i only use 2 extensions, adblock and videodownloader
34 • Firefox extensions? (by Pinguinus on 2006-12-11 17:58:55 GMT from Finland)
I tend to check and test new interesting Firefox extensions now and then. Although I remove most of them immediately after testing, I just checked and noticed that I have 17 extensions installed even now (plus a couple of extra themes), like:
- tab mix plus
- wapURL (or tinyURL)
- session saver
- several add-ons related to web development like web developer toolbar, CSS tools etc.
Some add-ons that I have tried have had slight compatibility problems with each other but nothing too difficult to solve so far.
Who has more of 'em? :P
35 • sidux - will it freeze sid repos? (by JeffS on 2006-12-11 18:05:54 GMT from United States)
That's the rub with running a distro based on Debian testing or Sid repos - the volatility of the repos.
If you're not very careful, over time from original install it becomes very very easy to hose your installation if you update frequently or simply install new packages.
That is part of the value proposition of Ubuntu - it freezes the Sid repos every six months, only putting in security/bug fix patches (not brand new versions), thus providing stability to the Ubuntu-ized repos, and making it safe for users.
That was always the problem I had with Kanotix (based on sid). It always started out fantastic (great hd detection, fast, full featured, etc). But over time I would always, always have problems when doing updates and/or installing new packages via apt-get.
Thus I'm wondering if sidux is going to strive to alleviate the problem of living in the Sid repos, by freezing their own version of the repos, or some other technique (apt tweaks, safety scripts, or something).
36 • PUD is nice (by sodix on 2006-12-11 18:17:47 GMT from Qatar)
I am typing this from PUD Gnu/Linux, and it's very nice.
Now I have to find out how to install it :)
All the best..
37 • Firefox Extensions (by Anonymous on 2006-12-11 18:42:58 GMT from Canada)
As a programmer I have over 30 extensions installed. Firefox does take longer to start with more extensions (about 10s) but I do not notice any slugguish in browsing.
38 • re:26 Novell Press Release (by Anonymous on 2006-12-11 18:44:06 GMT from United States)
Yes, they did a press release...4 days late. Makes you wonder if they saw the critique here and then threw one together.
39 • opensuse package management (by lmf on 2006-12-11 19:27:27 GMT from United States)
Just curious about package management in the new suse. Is it fixed? I tried opensuse 10.1, and the messed up software manager and lack of documentation made suse look like an amateur OS. From what I read, there is some documentation available this time.
38: Yet another example of the lack of leadership at Novell. Ron Hovsepian has no business being CEO of a lemonade stand.
40 • Sidux is NOT a fork of Kanotix (by craigevil on 2006-12-11 19:51:28 GMT from United States)
Actually, sidux is built from scratch using 100% pure Debian Sid, with completely new developed mastering scripts and all extra sidux-packages made to work with a "pure" Debian system. We strive very hard to keep all our code distro-neutral, so that every other Debian based distro could use it later on. We went even further by not using "sidux", but neutral terms for package names. We don't use "Knoppix technology" at all, and just a little of the GPLed code from Kanotix is used.
So, sidux is bleeding edge pure Debian (Sid), + newest vanilla kernel with needed patches, + working live-CD, + hdd-installer, + own scripts and packages (which are contributed to the Debian community), + artwork, + support & community( IRC and forum).
Basically Sidux will be Debian Sid that is up to date and "stable" enough to run on your home pc with few to no problems.
41 • 35 • sidux - will it freeze sid repos? (by Chris Hildebrandt on 2006-12-11 19:56:05 GMT from Austria)
No, definitely not. Freezing, restricting and reducing are exactly the opposite of sidux' philosophy. Instead, sidux is providing it's user base with a fine grained warning and scripting system, enabling them to use ALL of Debian Sid as it developes from day to day.
We understand Sidux as making Sid stable. So, instead of dog-brown reduction you get the freedom of the universe - with friends taking care of you.
42 • Sidux (re: comment #35) (by eco2geek on 2006-12-11 20:01:34 GMT from United States)
No, Sidux isn't setting up its own repos in order to "freeze" Debian. (It will have its own packages, for artwork, scripts that add user convenience, etc.) It is *not* setting up its own repos in order to have a subset of packages that only run on Sidux, the way that Ubuntu does.
It gets its packages from the normal Sid repos. It's meant to be dist-upgraded from the normal Sid repositories. And the devs will work to help users through the inevitable Sid bumps (just like they did with Kanotix).
P.S. Be nice, Béranger.
43 • # 35 (by high-on-caffeine on 2006-12-11 20:53:59 GMT from Germany)
Debian testing and unstable are moving targets but if you enable them both in sources.list and pin testing as the default distribution in your apt preferences, you can easily get any missing dependencies from unstable whenever testing breaks. Aptitude has a smart mechanism for resolving the conflicting dependencies in such situations.
There are risks involved in tracking the development branches in debian but there are also risks in running the stable releases of ubuntu, especially if you install unsupported packages. Did you know that ubuntu only supports the main and restricted repositories? Taking care of universe and multiverse (that's about 2/3 of ubuntu's packages) is left for volunteers. Ubuntu tries to make sure that the packages in main and restricted don't have dependency conflicts or other show-stopping bugs but freezing the packages in universe and multiverse doesn't really make them any more reliable than they were in debian unstable.
44 • openSUSE (by K9Kool on 2006-12-11 21:31:49 GMT from United States)
Installed several times over weekend on my AMD 64 laptop with GNOME and KDE. Works like a champ! I have all multimedia functions except I can't play mid files through browser yet. I had wireless, and all desktop effects installed and working on KDE with a non supported NVIDIA card in about 30 minutes. Finding more resources and docs for 10.2 than on any distro I have worked with including my fav PCLinuxOS. Oh and it is all very fast also.
45 • RE: 41 & 42 sidux (by JeffS on 2006-12-11 21:57:42 GMT from United States)
Well, if sidux can easily avoid getting one's system borked while living in the sid repos (via scripts, warnings, default settings, whatever), and provide a long term, stable system, then sidux sounds like it could be a very worthwhile new distribution indeed.
Actually, it wouldn't really be a new distribution, since it's reportedly 100% Debian Sid, with the extra scripts, hd detection, live CD, etc.
If sidux can deliver on it's promise to make living in the Sid repos manageable, I will definitely check it out.
I also hope it can be low resource, lean/mean machine like pure Debian tends to be (and Kanotix managed to be ), and not be a bloated hog like Ubuntu has become.
However, it will be hard to get me to leave PCLinuxOS or Slackware (my current favs). ;-)
46 • openSUSE 10.2 (by no_name on 2006-12-12 01:38:50 GMT from United States)
I tried 10.2 two days ago...
It installs nicely but only if you have DHCP. When I tried to set static IP it failed miserably (by the way - what an ugly way to test connection - 2 pages prevnext jumps in the wizard). Well... at least you _can_ test... =)
After install (as DHCP) I tried to switch to static IP from Yast. It didn't work either.
The only fix that worked for me was diving into /etc/...
I don't recall anything like this in 9.3.
Comparing to 9.3 I found this one... mmm... how to say... "not so smooth".
47 • Firefox (by Anonymous on 2006-12-12 03:05:16 GMT from United States)
IE with yahoo and Google tool bar. Run a few manditory IE updates you get the same result as the 200 toolbars in firefox.
Not to be outdone at no extra charge you get a memory leak that makes you reboot every 4 hours or so (limited resources).
48 • #29 (by ray carter at 2006-12-12 06:19:40 GMT from United States)
I'm not familiar with that Linux distro and I don't see it listed on the distrowatch page - could you give me a link?
49 • RE: openSUSE menu, Novell press release (by ladislav on 2006-12-12 07:19:43 GMT from Taiwan)
RE 15, 25: I don't really like the new openSUSE menu either. My first impression was - wow, this is nice, very different. But when I started using it, I found that it slowed me down. In normal KDE menu, you don't need to click to reveal submenus and you always know in which level you are. But in openSUSE 10.2 you have to click to see the next level, which seems like a waste of a click. And when you want to go up, you need to click again - on that thin vertical bar on the left. Maybe there is a way to adjust this behaviour, but I found the default behaviour a pain from the usability point of view. There are some good ideas, but they really have to re-think some of the concepts.
The scrollbar itself is not such a big issue, since you can adjust the size of the menu by dragging the top right corner to wherever you want it.
RE 26: Yes, Novell eventually did post a press release about openSUSE 10.2 and it even mentioned DistroWatch! That's another reason why I won't remove the page hit ranking table from the main page - although you and are don't take it too seriously, there are others who do. It gives DistroWatch extra exposure, which can't be bad ;-)
50 • 24 (by Misty on 2006-12-12 07:35:25 GMT from United States)
"Plus, if it's not backed by a company that talks about freedom but doesn't really believe in it, that might be important to some."
When did Canonical show they didn't? Please link us to one shred of proof. Just one shred of proof that Canonical isn't keeping their promise of freedom. Just one, people, that's all I ask. So far I have never seen any.
51 • SabayonLinux (by Misty on 2006-12-12 07:38:18 GMT from United States)
So, can anyone tell me if their install/ hardware-detection has improved? Last I heard, that was their weakness, but they've been developing rapidly since. Unfortunately, I don't have a spare machine to try it out myself.
Happy holidays, folks.
52 • 50 (by AC on 2006-12-12 08:02:08 GMT from United States)
Launchpad and Rosetta, the programs Canonical actively develops, are non-free.
53 • 51 (by no_name on 2006-12-12 10:35:44 GMT from United States)
I think it's a big improvement over the prev. version (IMHO).
I tried SabayonLinux 3.1 (as live-DVD) and it didn't work on my comp. because of h/w detection (I was getting a black screen).
But 3.2 (also live-DVD) detects everything and works great out of the box, all though I've managed to hang it one time... =)
I ran it on Intel P4 1.5GHz/512MB/ATI Radeon 9800Pro.
And I was really amazed by the beauty of SL3.2
It's a very nice distro especially for demonstration of Linux powers for non-believers ;)
P.S. To be honest I couldn't run it on one of the "Vista-compatible" laptops with 2GB RAM and some Intel video card with shared mem. I suspect conspiracy... ;-)
54 • RE: 50 (by Béranger on 2006-12-12 11:08:21 GMT from Romania)
> Just one shred of proof that Canonical isn't keeping their promise of freedom. Just one, people, that's all I ask. So far I have never seen any.
Launchpad is closed source. "Free as in free sex" is not like "free as in free speech".
55 • OpenSuse's new start menu (by Herman on 2006-12-12 13:21:31 GMT from Europe)
I don't dislike OpenSuse's new Gnome start menu for being more the Windows way ("other programs", relatively big menu field, that kind of stuff). That would be childish, and maybe the Suse people, erroneously, figured that's what people want (can't imagine).
It's just that the relatively standard Gnome menu I'm now looking at (FC5) is so nice, easy and simple, in what way is Suse improving this even a tiny bit?
People want to click as few times as possible. Gnome has been doing the right thing.
It's up to Suse, which I don't use anymore, but I really hope this menu won't make it into Gnome itself as a standard. After all, OpenSuse still is an influential distribution. Or ask people in the graphical installer, what kind of menu do you want to use.
56 • opensuse, ulteo (by freakout on 2006-12-12 13:31:27 GMT from Croatia)
im glad that opensuse is still extremly popular, despite nerdlike comments like 29.
57 • Sabayon 3.2a mini Live CD (by Fotograf on 2006-12-12 17:30:06 GMT from Canada)
can''t find the md5sum of that 696.6 Mb Live CD....
who can help ?
58 • #57 - Sabayon checksum... (by eco2geek on 2006-12-12 17:44:59 GMT from United States)
...A link to the MD5 is in the forum post announcing the release.
59 • I'm really enjoying a *real* discussion about distros (by P. Pearson on 2006-12-12 18:09:06 GMT from United States)
I'm learning a lot this week - not only from Ladislav's writing, but from the comments. This feels so much better than the bickering of the last few weeks.
I just may have to find some time to play with some of the newer Distros.
60 • Re: 59 (by Anonymous on 2006-12-12 20:30:59 GMT from United States)
Agreed! Last week I posted a comment onn how DW needs "a new forum to discuss distros". Maybe I spoke too soon.
Anyway, I loaded Blag 50003 last week. It was a quick and painless install, it has a fine set of apps, it runs quick on my old Pentium 600. Nice.
As a Debian user (at home) and a RedHat/CentOS user (at work), Blag has the strengths of both worlds for me.
Blag comes with gnome desktop which I do not care for, but installing KDE was a simple task, thanks to the use of 'apt'. A single command (apt-get install kdebase) did all the hard work. Now I have Blag with KDE.
61 • 52 (by Misty on 2006-12-12 20:57:36 GMT from United States)
Launchpad and Rosetta are non-free, but so is a lot of stuff included in other distroes. If you want it purely free, you should be using Debian... with no non-free codecs or anything. Canonical, on Ubuntu's home page, promised that it is free and will remain free; they didn't promise everything they put their name on would be free, like Debian did. If you expect them to go completely free, shouldn't you demand the same of all other distroes? I'm a Debian-user myself, but even I don't go that far.
62 • 61 (by AC on 2006-12-12 22:39:54 GMT from United States)
I wasn't singling out Canonical for any reason save that the original remark concerned why someone might prefer Sidux to Ubuntu. Apparently, that context got lost.
However, I do note that their homepage no longer makes reference to the Ubuntu Manifesto, with its talk about software freedom. Now, the focus is solely of free beer. Interesting that.
63 • Debian (by Darkman on 2006-12-13 03:16:21 GMT from United States)
I installed Etch this weekend using a "daily built" netinstall iso. Easy as falling in love. It hasn't always been like this, but this ain't your father's Debian. Despite the Ubuntu fork, I think Debian will do just fine. And you never need worry about their intentions. You know who they are, what they stand for and they don't change.
64 • RE: 60 (by IMQ on 2006-12-13 04:17:50 GMT from United States)
Like you, I also tried out BLAG 50003 CD on the test PC. And KDE was installed as well as I was browsing Synaptic and wanted to install K3b.
Very nice single-CD Fedora-based distro.
Just downloaded and install SabayonLinux 3.2a MiniEdition. So far so good though KDE keyboard response is not snappy. I am in the middle of installing OpenOffice.org 2.0.4 at this moment. It's been over 5 hrs compiling already and it not yet done. One of the main reason I don't use Gentoo-based as my main distro. Just something to play with.
65 • Sabayon 3.2a MiniCD (by Andrew on 2006-12-13 05:38:44 GMT from New Zealand)
Just tried Sabayon 3,2a MiniCD on a laptop with wireless - IPW3945. The wireless card would not work no matter what I tried. The DVD version also gave me problems with my video card and wireless. I think Sabayon still has H/W detection problems. I will try Debian Etch next.
66 • Sidux (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-12-13 08:41:21 GMT from Italy)
From their frontpage:
"On 24th of November 2006 sidux was formed by a group of people who strive to do the impossible: making Debian Sid (aka "Unstable") stable. "
Well, I am happy they are acknowledging it now (that theirs is an almost impossible task), after ferociously attacking in the Kanotix forum everybody who dared to question the wisdom of using Sid.
"sidux is multilingual - people from all over the world meet here and talk in their native, but also secondary languages. We believe in the power of shared and open communication and therefore don't split the community by countries or languages, but concentrate them. Many people here do speak several languages and are using them when helping you."
This on the other hand is a good and valid point. Kudos.
67 • Re: # 61 (by linbetwin on 2006-12-13 09:10:14 GMT from Romania)
Leaving Xandros, Linspire and other commercial distributions aside, the only non-free stuff in Linux distros are proprietary drivers, problematic codecs and other packages under under various restrictive licenses. These are not packages created by these distributions, but users expect them to be available or even installed by default.
Canonical, OTOH, has created Launchpad and Rosetta. How soon before we see them develop some proprietary killer app for Ubuntu?
68 • Re #32 • #3 • Debian RC bug count (by Jonth on 2006-12-13 11:48:52 GMT from United Kingdom)
yes, the page was updated. The original version of the page referred to http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/12/msg00003.html, and I think Ladislav had just read the headline number, not the number for the next release.
Ladislav, please confirm that I'm not insane!
69 • RE: 68 Debian RC bug count (by ladislav on 2006-12-13 11:58:00 GMT from Taiwan)
Yes, I updated the story after reading your post. Thank you for pointing out my mistake :-)
70 • RE: # 5 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-12-13 14:02:54 GMT from Italy)
"Get this Debian 4.0 release out ASAP, so we can all go back to the normal routine of daily updates in Testing/Unstable."
Or maybe even use it (stable) for a while...
Or is that asking too much? :)
71 • Symphony is back! (by Ariszló on 2006-12-13 16:43:32 GMT from Hungary)
Symphony OS is back online:
72 • this weekly (by guy on 2006-12-13 18:58:52 GMT from United States)
sorry but this weekly article is a little weak. i understand that there can only be content if there is lots o news to report but this one feel short.
73 • RE: # 70 (by sampo on 2006-12-13 22:27:47 GMT from Finland)
Good point. Etch will make a nice, up-to-date desktop system for a while ... at least until Lenny starts introducing new features.
Sarge was already somewhat outdated when it was released, so it takes some extra effort getting used to the idea that a stable Debian release is not actually that far from the cutting edge. ;-)
74 • RE: # 73 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-12-14 01:01:56 GMT from Italy)
"Sarge was already somewhat outdated when it was released, so it takes some extra effort getting used to the idea that a stable Debian release is not actually that far from the cutting edge. ;-) "
Indeed. It felt as if Sarge would never release.
75 • Ubuntu's "Freedom" (by Anonymous on 2006-12-14 04:22:01 GMT from United States)
@#50 - http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7895189911.html
Note: non-free drivers on by default in the next release... What is so free about NOT offering a choice?
76 • Ulteo (by Andrew on 2006-12-14 04:33:21 GMT from New Zealand)
Ulteo is just a remaster of Kubuntu - nothing too different. The real distro's to watch are Elive and Sabayon when they both get H/W detection upto speed.
77 • RE: # 75 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-12-14 10:24:02 GMT from Italy)
For the first time ever I find myself agreeing with Ubuntu.
Offer Nvidia and ATI drivers? Why not? Especially considering their target audience.
SUSE used to offer Nvidia drivers in the distribution. Later it could be downloaded as a YaST update, now nothing.
Worse even: they decided to ship 10.2 with a beta Xorg. So if you happen to have an ATI card, tough luck. The best you can get is framebuffer!!!
Those are the kind of issues which *really* annoy me, not endless, useless discussion about non-free software, agreements with Microsoft...
When I give a Linux distro to my next door neighbours all they care about is that the OS works without problems out of the box.
78 • 75 & 77 (by Pepsi on 2006-12-14 12:45:35 GMT from Germany)
It looks like the Linux kernel developers might ban the loading of binary-only modules. That would solve this controversial topic once and for all. If you really want to use Linux, you need to buy Linux-friendly hardware. No ifs or buts or maybes about it.
79 • RE: 78 (by ladislav on 2006-12-14 12:56:26 GMT from Taiwan)
It's just an idea at this stage and it doesn't look like it has the support of the most important man. Linus Torvalds: "I'm personally not going to merge that particular code unless you can convince the people you work for to merge it first."
80 • RE: # 78 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-12-14 13:38:31 GMT from Italy)
"If you really want to use Linux, you need to buy Linux-friendly hardware. No ifs or buts or maybes about it. "
That would kill, once and forever, the chance of Linux getting any meaningful desktop share. People don't buy (except maybe for a minuscule percentage), and never will, hardware with Linux compatibility in mind. They have in mind either Windows (by far the largest majority) or OS X. Personally this year I became a fun of the latter. Yesterday a friend showed me what he had created with Final Cut, and in case I still had doubts about OS X, now they have gone forever.
81 • RE 78 What for do you want to use Linux? (by dbrion on 2006-12-14 15:27:13 GMT from France)
If you want to use Linux for computing, or normal desktop work, any computer will suffice. I know windows fans who are happy with a 2003 Whitebox, which was never updated.
They only suffer twice a year, with USB mountings (it is unfrequent enough not to upgrade).... They use it for web | mail browsing, text editing and for scientifical work.... They do not use it to have their friends jaws dropping in front of a 3D Sabayon desktop (perhaps they go _beyond_ a deskdop). It is a little more difficult with laptops, as power consumption is favorable to Windows (unless some tuning of the ACPI ???). As nobody is willing to carry a laptop in the tube | train ( laptops are also called 'steel me'), some unexpensive light ways to listen to music | watch DVDs exist.
Advantages of both systems (Windows -which is sold with the PC-- and Linux) may be combined by dualbooting : if some _additional_ hardware is not recognized by Linux (I think of PCMCIA with Mandriva 2006 (perhaps others), one can wait till it gets supported. If there is a virus (it happens sometimes with Windows, as it is more used : I do not hope Linux will be dominant for this reason), one can use clamav -for ex.)- on Linux to clean the Windows portition.
Is listening a CD / watchin films part of normal desktop work?
82 • Non-free (by lmf on 2006-12-14 20:46:27 GMT from United States)
The problem with Ubuntu is that you get the proprietary drivers whether you want them or not.
"i feel free when my hardware works, and i feel extremly pissed when it doesn't."
And your point is what, exactly? What does that have to do with my not being able to install Ubuntu without proprietary drivers?
Mark Shuttleworth is a dictator saying "Proprietary is superior because it will give us greater market share, so EVERYONE gets proprietary drivers no matter what." That's the problem, especially given that it is beyond trivial to give the option to not install them.
83 • Patch withdrawn • 79, 79 (by Ariszló on 2006-12-15 00:41:34 GMT from Hungary)
84 • No subject (by DamentZ on 2006-12-15 01:19:00 GMT from United States)
Sidux will almost be versionless as the repository it uses is always changing, ever evolving. That is the advantage.
85 • RE:82 (by Tazix on 2006-12-15 17:28:26 GMT from United States)
Ok... I can agree that FORCING proprietary drivers and codecs is bad... if you can agree that FORCING the "free" drivers and codecs is just as bad.
Average users, especially ones new to Linux, want a functional box. Not a bunch of post-install work to get their box functional. Period. They also don't want an overly complex install.
So there needs to be an easy way, durring install, that gives the user a choice of exactly what they want, with clear explanations (and legality disclaimers), without being overwhelming (hundreds of choices).
If a user wants proprietary drivers, 3D support, non-free codecs, dvd decryption, etc. they should be able to choose to install those things.
If a user wants to be a "purist", they should be able to choose that route as well.
Even though I've been working with linux avidly for the last 2 years, I still find it a PITA to get whatever distro I'm trying out, to be satisfactory in the functional area. (jumping through the same hoops over and over). Even Automatix for the *buntu's is somewhat of a PITA to install, having to edit the sources.list, importing the gpg keys, etc.
Granted... I can get just about any distro working as functional as I want, relatively quickly... but that still doesn't discount that it's an unwanted duty... and a turn off to newbies.
86 • SabayonLinux hardware detection (by Peter Jones on 2006-12-15 22:16:38 GMT from United Kingdom)
I agree about Sabayon Linux. I have an Nvidia 6200 graphics card, and the resolution I got when boot SabayonLinux wa about 400 *200!!.. On the plus side I posted a question on the forum and got a quick reply which I will be trying this week. I know people complain about non free drivers, but most people want to load an operating system and not have all the hassle of installing codecs and the like. Until linux developers realise this Linux well remain non mainstream which is a great pity.
I love Ubuntu, because the Wiki tells you exactly what to do and it works first time!!
87 • @75, 82 (by Wrawrat on 2006-12-16 00:41:37 GMT from Canada)
How is that different from ALL distributions? After all, distributors are making tons decisions for you. They decide what is going on your HD as a part of the core system and they provide their own default configuration.
An expert installation of Debian manages to install packages that I *don't* want (stuff related to modem and floppy drives comes to mind). Even Gentoo does it: by using Python, it forces me to install libraries that I don't really want.
Unless Ubuntu doesn't provide any option from uninstalling these drivers, it's pretty much a storm in a teacup...
Now, the FSF might argue that including proprietary software is "immoral", but it's merely a question of opinion and values.
88 • 86 (by Pepsi on 2006-12-16 00:58:13 GMT from Germany)
There's some good news for all Linux desktop fans: X.org version 7.3 will have greatly improved generic auto-configuration, which will hopefully make all distro-specific X.org configuration tools obsolete.
Linux on the desktop doesn't need binary drivers for anything else except for some resource-hungry games and useless 3D effects.
Personally I would see it as a great pity if Linux became mainstream and caught viruses and malware like Windows.
89 • RE 25 25 • openSUSE, Utteo, Pioneer, etc. (by IMQ on 2006-12-11 16:30:01 GMT fro (by dbrion on 2006-12-16 16:16:20 GMT from France)
I admire your courage testing and installing many Linuxes; you seem to be frustrated with Pardus, but it is consistent with their claim in "http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20061009&mode=1" post #86 "
I just wonder whether US English became an unimportant language ("an obvious ambition to reach abroad now) does not need to have an installation language for French, Arabic and most importantly Kurdish") and what became of their export ambition?
As far as your keyboard sufferings are concerned, you can now imagine what happens with French people (who have a Freedom AZERTY keyboard, sometimes glued to a laptop...) : 2/3 of Lx distrs only support AZERTY, which is a major drqzbqck during install and annoyous for live-CDs (some are interesting). The advantage is that one can concentrate on major long living distrs (and ignore some promising new ones).
90 • RE: What's New in Pardus 2007
RE: 89 (by IMQ on 2006-12-16 20:16:26 GMT from United States)
I was curious about Pardus because they are independently developed distro with some unique ways of doing things like their package management. And I downloaded and tested Pardus because of the following claim on their homepage:
What's New in Pardus 2007
Multilingual installer // It is possible to install Pardus in Turkish, English, Spanish, German or Dutch...
To me, when a distro makes claim of support of certain language, it means, at the minimum, the user can navigate the system using the same language chosen during the installation process.
I am a regular visitor at DistroWatch and have seen many announcements of distros of interest. However, I did not try many of them mainly because English support was not available. So I missed out those experience. :(
I may be considered a distros junkie, but I like to think it is an education experience to see how Linux distros are being built wordwide. :)
91 • unique ways (RE 90) (by dbrion on 2006-12-17 16:06:08 GMT from France)
Normally, at least 90% of distrs have good English support (or you just have to wait a little, as was the case for Alixe [at the beginning only French speaking, with QWERTY keyboard, as in Quebec] : it now supports English and, for people living in Belgium or France (perhaps Rumania), Freedom keyboards).
Looking for "unique package management" is somehow dangerous : if a distro misses something you want, and is too original, what will happen?
=> this led me back to the traditionnal , slow(configuring, making and installing [outside the distros directories, not to break anything]) way of managing packages... Open Sources were meant for that, AFAIK... The only drawback is that one does not know which distr is running, and nobody can fix it (it may be also the case with continuously updated distrs, this would be an advantage if there were never mistakes, but only progresses)
Normally, one can fix distros without native language/keyboard once they are installed: I did it once, it was highly unpleasant, and I decided _not_ to install distrs which do not support my keyboard and my language (it is too dangerous during install, and too tedious after). As far as I remember, DOS and Windows supported any language| key board from the beginning and good (GPL licenced) Windows applications (such as R, Scilab, MinGW) can be put where you want to...
What stroke me in Pardus in Oct. 2006 was their unique (or outdated?) hierarchy of languages. I am surprised they are not consistent with their claim of English support ....
I was more pleasantly surprised with Edubuntu yesterday: as a live CD, it has good language support: normally, there are more intellectual matters in some live CDs than I can learn in the next years.
92 • No subject (by spill on 2006-12-18 09:20:48 GMT from Singapore)
Vector linux 5.8 is out. have to test during festive season.!
Number of Comments: 92
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