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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • It's good to know some things never change! (by Mark South at 2006-09-25 11:11:05 GMT from Switzerland)
This is the most reassuring Distrowatch Weekly I've read this year. The Debian Project people are fighting amongst themselves, a random sample of commercial distros are making themselves unpopular with limited offers and trials, Ubuntu is coming in for criticism, forthcoming releases of Fedora, Mandriva, and Suse are going to save the planet. Meanwhile, amongst all this chaos, a whole bunch of the readership are happily using Linux. Sometimes whatever distro fell to hand first in tjhe morning - gotta love the liveCDs!
Thanks Ladislav. Keep it up. I'm still nominating Zenwalk for a Distrowatch award: small, neat, cool, good looking, works. Pick all of them!
2 • No subject (by i think on 2006-09-25 11:40:56 GMT from Estonia)
that in china they prefer chinese language, so distrowatch is not for them. secondly not a big percentage of them have computer and internet, so this "per capita" is not coming high.
3 • Sabayon as a limus test of users desire for 'easy linux'....... (by REMF on 2006-09-25 11:42:45 GMT from United Kingdom)
I am a big SUSE fan, been using it since 9.1 and use 10.1 on my work laptop exclusively.
however i am no hacker, and am not able to add new codecs and install new drivers due to my newb'ness, nor do i have any intention of learning as i have a life to live.
while i appreciate and sympathise with the reason why big commercial distro's don't ship with drivers and codecs, at the end of the day I downloaded Sabayon and found it to be marvellous, 3D just worked, XGL just worked, DVD's just worked, Xvid/Mastroska videos just worked, and MP3's too!
so i am a hypocrite, i support SUSE's stance on non-free drivers, and understand their position with licensed codecs, and yet i still use Sabayon......... if my hypocrisy reflects a common attitude then the big commercial distro's may have a problem.
that said, Sabayon is more flakey and less organised than SUSE (likewise for fedora/mandriva etc), but if they sorted that out and continued to ship drivers and codecs with their distro why then should i continue to use SUSE?
I welcome the release of Sabayon because it will demonstrate one way or the other just how high-minded the GNU/linux community is willing to be.
regards
4 • Sabayon as a litmus test of users desire for 'easy linux'....... (by REMF on 2006-09-25 11:46:39 GMT from United Kingdom)
edit, should read:
Sabayon as a litmus test of users desire for 'easy linux'.......
5 • Xgl/Compiz graphical manager (by Pedro Rodrigues on 2006-09-25 12:00:08 GMT from Portugal)
I don't understand why is the OpenSuse the firt distribution to have the "Compiz Settings Manager" because i have this tool on Ubuntu at least for 3 weeks ( the binaries - cwgd) . The "Compiz Settings Manager" is a open-source tool and is available for any kind of distribution, so i think that is not correct to say that OpenSuse is the first distribution to have it.
In conclusion i think that we have to be more carefull when we write this things, because there are lots of people reading it.
Best Regards,
Pedro Rodrigues ( Portugal)
6 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-09-25 12:18:05 GMT from Belgium)
Ladislav,
the link at the end of the Sabayon section of this newsletter http://distrowatch.com/www.sabayonlinux.org/ should be either http://distrowatch.com/sabayon/ or http://www.sabayonlinux.org/
Thanks for making my monday afternoons all these years!
Greetz,
Tist Verdonck
7 • Shipit (by Eric on 2006-09-25 12:18:35 GMT from Netherlands)
Pitty to hear that the Ubuntu Edgy release will not be availble via shipit for people requesting only a few cd's. But you can't complain about things you get for free. I still hope they change their minds, though.
Eric
8 • usefulness (by wouter on 2006-09-25 12:24:21 GMT from Finland)
How many people 'work' for the Debian project? I guess more than one thousand... How and why would employing two developers for one month make such a big difference?
If there are unpleasant chores that nobody wants to do, perhaps a Debian derivative such as Ubuntu could hire somebody to fix or improve whatever needs to be fixed or improved. That way, no over-sensitive Debian developers would feel like the world is going to end.
Don't get me wrong, I like Debian, but I've always felt there's at least as much BS and fighting going on than any real work getting done. It's often more purely about ideology than about software, and there's got to be a sanity limit -- if you still want to be a software project, that is.
PS: I'm not the Debian developer (who has the same first name).
9 • Flurry of activity in Kurumin (by Alex on 2006-09-25 12:40:50 GMT from Canada)
Great thing to know that one of the best distros around is alive and kicking. I wish Morimoto and his team the best of success with version 7, here's hoping that Debian will deliver etch in time...
10 • No subject (by RedBoar on 2006-09-25 12:42:04 GMT from United States)
"It is not clear why the SabayonLinux developers dropped the native Gentoo installer..."
It's clear to me, the Gentoo installer is a mess and never worked for me.
I concur with REMF, although no distro is perfect and obviously after reading this review it seems programmers were kind of snubbed on a good editor, it's great that a distro is clearly designed with newbies in mind who as I've said before don't find it thrilling to mess around in a console for hours in order to get their machine to do what it wants. Let's all face it, MS will be king of the desktop for a long time to come, as the first reviewer here points out. Too many people in the community get their jollies from infighting and petty wars in regard to what a GNU/Linux installation should do (and be able to do) once you put it on YOUR computer.
11 • Debian's democracy is based on equality (by Anselm on 2006-09-25 12:45:13 GMT from Germany)
Heated debates on mailing lists are not really that uncommon inside Debian (or in other big non-profit projects that are run by volunteers). Debian has over a thousand developers and it is practically impossible to steer such a huge volunteer project democratically, giving each of those developers equal freedom of speech, without occasional tensions and heated discussions inside the project.
Also, the strong commitment to the ideals of free software among Debian developers is likely to make these discussions very emotional but, at the same time, this very commitment is also likely to attract skilled developers to Debian and to ensure that they devote themselves 100% to this volunteer work. (Have you ever stopped wondering why Debian has attracted so many developers?) And strong devotion to development work tends to help in producing high quality code. So there's a positive side in all this arguing, although reporters usually only like to tell us about the negative side.
My opinion is that the ”Dunc-Tank” fund-raising experiment is a positive idea, as long as it is clearly separated from the official Debian project and as long as it is restricted to supporting specific limited-time tasks, like the one month assignment of two Debian release managers to make sure that Debian 4.0 (codenamed ”etch”) will be released on time. But paying some developers a regular salary in a non-profit volunteer project would be asking for trouble – it would introduce an element of inequality among developers and, therefore, it would be against the very spirit of Debian.
I can warmly recommend people to read Debian developer Martin F. Krafft's well-balanced opinion about this whole ”Dunc-Tank” discussion: http://blog.madduck.net/debian/2006.09.22_motivation
12 • Sabayon hw support (by Ariszló on 2006-09-25 12:46:21 GMT from Hungary)
It is more or less OK here. It properly detects my nVidia graphics card but I am not very happy with the screen resolution it offers.
13 • Complexitiy of Linux (by Gasper on 2006-09-25 12:47:27 GMT from Slovenia)
My uncle who is an art teacher on college tried Ubuntu linux.
He got hooked up imediately, with Automatix he had working system in an hour.
He wanted to check Cinelerra and all good video programs under Linux.
He is too sick of windows....
First he encounterd problem with firewire, he couldn't find a solution how to fix it. We browsed ubuntu forums for some time but without luck.
As it seems firewire drivers are running under root account, and there should be a fix but it's not.
Then, Cinerella, State of the art Video editing sw is not avaiable in repository... We found on some other site and managed to get it working, somehow... but firewire still didn't work
We tried Suse - firewire worked, but we couldn't find cinerella.
It is so bad.....
I thought that ubuntu is fixing problems via liveupdate,
and I also hoped that Linux state of the art gems are easier to set up.
Every serious distro should have state of the art programs ready for install.
Also fixing distro. errors could have been enabled via liveupdate.
How can one use linux for work without becoming a hacker....
I can't just say to my friend, hey compile that program....
And how can more ppl. use linux?
14 • Mon Sep 25-06 (by Mojo on 2006-09-25 12:48:19 GMT from United States)
i looked at distrowatch's specs of LinuxXP to read the packagelist, the default desktop and national origon & lauguages supported...
SabayonLinux 3.0 sounds nice, i have an extra disk partition for testing distros, i keep trusty ol' Slackware as my main distro for work & play, so i may download it if it is also available as a CD-R ISO as i dont have a DVD burner (yet)...
another great weekly article at distrowatch, thanks :)
15 • China/Russia/India (by Anonymous on 2006-09-25 12:57:52 GMT from United Kingdom)
Was very suprised to see such low numbers for these three countries. I think DW should try and find people to translate into their languages as they account for over 2,550,000,000 people between them!
16 • i hope debian will soon die.... (by fukodlak on 2006-09-25 13:00:13 GMT from Croatia)
they're fighting with whole world and among themselves. i hope the project will die and than developers will join other, more organized and useful projects.
17 • Xgl/Compiz (by Chris Hildebrandt on 2006-09-25 13:11:17 GMT from Austria)
Xgl/Compiz is just a media hype, it provides features you will actually never need or want. It's a funny game, perfect to impress people - but I can not see any serious reason where it would make me more productive.
Let me add, Xgl/Compiz is possible to test in KANOTIX directly from the newest RC-version not just after after HD-install - you can even install and test it on the fly from live CD mode (thanks to Kano)! Preview at http://kanotixguide.org/images/f9.png. Download the installer at
http://kanotix.com/files/install-compiz.sh.
Run the script to install, it works with newer nvidia and i810 graphics drivers (should be installed before, which is also possible with KANOTIX in live-mode). A clean uninstall is provided with -u switch, too. Do all that on your own risk, and never test on production installations of Debian Sid/KANOTIX you depend on!
Greetings,
Chris Hildebrandt (slam)
18 • RE: 16 • i hope debian will soon die.... (by kojak on 2006-09-25 13:23:55 GMT from Germany)
I hope that it will not die! This would cripple at least 1/4 of the distros and would give many sys-admins a real headache.
Debian is a great project and- let's face it - you cannot stop infighting in ANY distro.
19 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-09-25 13:37:41 GMT from Iran, Islamic Republic of)
That Berry Linux 0.74 wallpaper is cute but not for me! As for debian, I hope they resolve their issues before things get worse and people leave. Shipit is doing the right thing by sticking with the LTS version. Does anyone know if replacing init will make booting faster?
20 • RE: i hope debian will soon die.... (by Garret on 2006-09-25 13:50:00 GMT from United States)
This is probably the single most uninformed remark I've ever heard on this website. Debian is the base for a huge amount of existing distros, and is an outstanding example of a long and thriving Open Source Linux project. It of course has it's issues, like just about everythig in the world does, but in general the project is stellar and a bright light in the Open Source world.
21 • Linux XP (by rec9140 on 2006-09-25 13:56:05 GMT from United States)
I have looked at the site after the mention here and until today couldn't figure out what the need for the Serial Keys was for either. I have the ISO sitting on my disk ready to try via VMPlayer and that probably would snafu their 99 boot limitation since I can boot it once, and then suspend it in VMPlayer and restart from that point on. I may give it a whirl to see what all the fuss is about, but since its GNOME based, thats 2.5 strikes right there. (I just don't care for GNOME and wish it would just go away, KDE should be the default for any distro, but thats just my personal nit and opinion.)
Linux XP needs to make a better effort to get its info out that a CD KEY is REQUIRED to make functions work and to continue use after x boots or y days rather than hiding it.
22 • The "purity" of open source (by utabintarbo at 2006-09-25 14:10:10 GMT from United States)
I am once again saddened to see the reaction of an open source project's (Debian) developers to the very suggestion that someone actually make a dollar or two writing software. This holier-than-thou attitude of the corrupting influence of "filthy lucre" ignores the incovenient truth that the very existence of the OSS movement is a product of the general prosperity brought about by the concept that each person's time is worth money if someone is willing to pay for it. Are these guys that ignorant of history?
23 • Country Stats... (by Anto on 2006-09-25 14:11:25 GMT from Belgium)
I know it is or it sounds complicated, but it is still early to assume that PC technology penetration/PC availability/(call it what you like) is available all over the world in the same way and in the same level. So, in my opinion, an index simply based on the number of visits and total population size does not make sense. A combination of a "technology level factor" although hard (but not impossible) to establish could provide better service to the readers. Such a factor could be measured by matching the distribution of the internet contacts over the territory (per square 100 km for instance) and then "normalized" against population density over the area. Values could then be averaged for the country. We have the means to do that! Keep up with the good work, I also read you on Linux Format.
Ciao
Antonio
(Ubuntu, Opensuse, Xubuntu, Damn Small Linux and Puppy Linux user)
24 • What I've Learned from using Linux (by Lazy on 2006-09-25 14:19:10 GMT from Singapore)
2 years ago, I come across Linux almost by accident and have been using it ever since. The thing that I've learned from using Linux is not computer hacking but the fact that there are many people in this world and most have their own (strong) views and belief.
Don't believe, just say KDE is better then GNOME or VI is better then Emacs and see all hell break lost ;-)
I like to use Debian/Gentoo... but they are too difficult for a newbie like me.
I like to use Mepis/Libranet ... but they are maintained only by a selected few ... what if they lost their interest and stopped hacking?
I like to use openSUSE/Fedora ... but I would prefer to stay away from big corporations...
I like ..... who cares what I like!!
I'll just choose what is comfortable for me (that my limited knowledge can handle) and my hardware (is compatible).
So, just be happy that there's so much to choose from and use whatever suits you best and forget about who is fighting with who.
25 • ShipIt mystery (by boingboing on 2006-09-25 14:25:25 GMT from Finland)
Hey, it's great to see that so many Finns have visited DistroWatch! :)
I wonder why Ubuntu has decided not to offer their latest product from ShipIt (only the old release)? They don't seem to give any explanation for this change of policy. Do they think that Edgy Eft will be a bad release? And if so, why not just skip the whole release and concentrate on making the next release better? Or is Mark Shuttleworth suddenly running out of cash? That seems an unlikely option. Why don't they tell people what's going on?
26 • Debian (by Anonymous on 2006-09-25 14:50:03 GMT from United States)
Money in and of itself does not corrupt, it is the source and amount of the money which corrupts. The arguments presented over this pitiful amount show that for this distro, it is not money, but ego which corrupts.
27 • RE: # 24 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-09-25 15:01:55 GMT from Italy)
"I like to use Mepis/Libranet ... but they are maintained only by a selected few ... what if they lost their interest and stopped hacking?"
That happened already to Libranet. their final release (3.0) was on 2005/04/18.
Nobody can pick up the pieces because Libranet had some proprietary bits and Tal Danzig never donated them to the open source community.
Besides there is no way you can get LN 3.0, except for asking for a copy to some former, friendly Libranet user.
There isn't much point either, as LN 3.0 is beginning to feel really old.
Go with Debian Etch, it isn't that difficult. Else go with Kanotix, very user friendly and 100% Debian compatible.
28 • Linux XP (by newbie on 2006-09-25 15:04:43 GMT from Finland)
I'm a newbie in Linux, but I tried that Linux XP. Never understood it was to buy an activation key until I tried to update it. It was needing Pack 1 seriously, but yes it downloaded it, but did not install it. And very often they were saying in front of your eyes "not activated". Then when trying to install some new packages, it gave you forbidden url. Based on FC 3 as it may be, why not then use FC 5 for free. There were no flashplayer and no way to go to installing it from Linux XP, forbidden url.
Maybe it is not fully ready yet, but I wonder how it could be the first Linux for windows users. If you did find it good, please let me know.
29 • Timing (by Jesse on 2006-09-25 15:07:31 GMT from Canada)
Frankly, I don't see what the big deal is in regards to Debian people getting paid for the work they're doing. DW donates money to volenteer projects all the time to help out and no
one complains. If Dunc-Tank wants to throw a few dollars at
some key Debian people, power to them.
My question is: Why is it so important to get Debian 4.0
out the door in December? So the developers can have
x-mas off? (They're volenteers.) To compete with Vista?
(They're two different markets.) Just so the Debian
team can claim they released on time? (Vainity.)
30 • Generally speaking... (by IMQ on 2006-09-25 15:08:44 GMT from United States)
All the distros that required activation/serial/etc. is a big NO in my book. However, I do have the curiosity to download and spin-test the distros IF they appear to be interesting from the description of what can do. But they will not be staying long on any of my PC/laptops.
Instead I choose to support distros, either buying a copy or sending in donation, which I find useful for my needs. These distros have no limitations: install on as many PC/laptop, give away to friends, co-workers, etc.. In another word, no limitations usually found in a commercial distros.
Luckily, there are a few that I like and that give me the option to stay with Linux if one of these distros happens to stop development.
Heck, one of these day I might build my own distro. Just for kick!
:D
31 • Join the Elive Revolution! (by Johnny Dollar on 2006-09-25 15:14:43 GMT from United States)
I would just like to put in a plug for Elive. I've been using the 0.5 beta for several weeks and it's great: fast, good-looking and intuitive. Desktop environments are highly personal matters, but for me Enlightenment 17 kicks the crap out of Gnome and KDE. IMHO the former is constantly stripping out functionality and the latter is cluttered and garish.
The utopia of powerful AND easy-to-use computing is possible and closer than you think. Elive has its flaws -- all software does -- but it has the greatest potential of any mainstream distro, potential that will be realized when Rasterman finishes E17.
Animated backgrounds anyone? :^)
32 • re: 17 - xgl et al (by ray carter at 2006-09-25 15:16:48 GMT from United States)
"Xgl/Compiz is just a media hype, it provides features you will actually never need or want. It's a funny game, perfect to impress people - but I can not see any serious reason where it would make me more productive."
Pretty much the same arguments about windowing operating systems when they first appeared. I don't see any particular big deal right now, but it is entirely possible that five years down the road we won't be able to see how we got along without it.
33 • No subject (by Henrik on 2006-09-25 15:24:12 GMT from Sweden)
finally a devoted disscusion about the boot up procces is on the rise. leets have an end to boots/startups that takes forever. i have been using Linux for around 7 years (my first beeing Slackware), and first now/recent year i see linux beeing ready for desktops (i then mean for people that will give it some time)
Henrik
34 • volunteer/money (by neighborlee on 2006-09-25 15:58:50 GMT from United States)
hi all.
It is amusing to see the discord , yet again in the linux community. Did no one learn from the teachings of Jesus and other great philosphers and teachers of earths history ? You dont have to go 'very far' to realize that EGO gets in the way more often than not in our blique past, and know that we really should reconsider our feelings on such matters to take our species into a new era. If we really are working 'together' towards a common goal, does it really matter who gets paid and who does not. If someone is 'willing' to work for free that is 'their cause' and their right to act on it. If someone must have pay for whatever reason and they are 'needed' in the overall act of accomplishment then I guess thats just how things work out isn't it. Dont let ego blind you to the goal in which you have your own distinct part. Linux deserves better than this nonsense. I also would like to encapsulate my point by saying does it really matter if debian is not released quite on time , and if so to whom and why ? ;-) ( If there was some important news on which this was based to pay some new developer to get etch out sooner then I missed it )
cheers
neighborlee()
35 • Join the Xubuntu Revolution! (by mouse on the wall on 2006-09-25 16:01:20 GMT from Canada)
"Join the Elive Revolution!" Allow me to suggest xfce! e17 is kool, xfce is functional:both are fast. Zenwalk if you prefer slack...2 cnts
36 • This week... (by Pelle on 2006-09-25 16:26:26 GMT from Norway)
Hi all, I think the fighting in debian is anoying, and that it itself brings bad press... What if they actually did code, and stopped fighting? Then again, I understand why there are som difficulties.. Why should 2 of over 1000 get money, when everbody works on the same project? Maybe this is the right time for Ubuntu to "help" their legacy and pay som developers to make etch release in december? Its only fair, since ubuntu depends on debian (sid)..
When on the topic of ubuntu... first they say something, then they back out of it. Regular releases -> 6.06 beeing late, free cds -> users have to pay for shipit. And maybe "ubuntu will always be free, and have free updates" -> ubuntu going commersial, with pay-for-updates ala RedHat?
Anyway, whats wrong with Suse? I downloaded the lates release (10.1) and installed it, and had alot of problems updateing it. I found information on the internet, but wouldn't it be better to release updated media, with the zmd/libzypp error corrected?
Ok, Im not angry, just had to let out some opinions... all in all, I love OpenSource software, and I think the quality of Linux, the kernel, the GNU tools, Xorg, Gnome, KDE, Firewall and other important software is getting great man :) Thank you "developers" and keep up the good work Ladislav
37 • Elive -- pay to obtain? (by Henry Nettles on 2006-09-25 16:28:02 GMT from United States)
I am surprised that no one else mentioned the necessity for a payment in order to download the new version of Elive. From reading the comments by the developer, I would guess that Elive won't be around much longer.
38 • Sabayon (by Tom on 2006-09-25 16:34:18 GMT from United States)
I must admit that I was very impressed with Sabayon, I used it to boot the lab computers at my school into linux for my weekly linux seminar last week, and many of the students were greatly impressed, although to my dismay, the absance of Vim will mean that I will need to use a different live CD/DVD in the future when I am teaching config files etc.
39 • debian, shipit... (by orzeuek on 2006-09-25 16:34:30 GMT from Poland)
Firsty, I'm sad with what's going around Debian these days. Thanks to using Ubuntu since 2004 I was convinced to linux and the Debian philosophy and .DEB packages (I was earlier struggling with Mandrake and RPM dependencies). Anyone remembers people said the word "Ubuntu" is "I can't install Debian" ? :))
Money and true happiness don't come together - so it was just a matter of time and I hope they will deal with it the "mature" way and get along.
As for Ubuntu not shipping Edgy CDs - for me it is fully understandable. Dapper is LTS for a couple of years - the main focus is on it and for at least a year Dapper should be the press-friendly one - like Ubuntu saying "Hey, we stand strong with this release, so we are not afraid with being old-school compared to Edgy".
But the better explanation is that Edgy will be edgy'ier... All the new upstarts, teardowns, dbus'es.. I expect even after the official release some MAJOR software updates will happen every week, so a Ship-It Edgy CD would be a little already outdated when the postman will bring it a few weeks after requeting it.
Mr. Shuttleworth got his head on its place and knows what to do, I can only admire him.
Greetings from Poland.
40 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-09-25 16:36:09 GMT from China)
I think OpenSUSE is very poor, the buggiest linux distribution. Amost everyone finds lots of bugs, problems within five minutes after installation. OpenSUSE does not have lots of essential packages and it is very slow compared with other linux distribution. OpenSUSE should change its project manager in order to improve its products quality. The recent project management and its project manager are too poor, bad and incapable.
If Fedora were not so ugly and adoptted polished KDE as default, it would be the best, and most secure linux distribution.
41 • Debian - releasing a product on time is VERY important (by Andrew on 2006-09-25 16:38:04 GMT from Canada)
I think the developers should get the pay. In the Linux world if something is late they don't care, but When you move into the real world being on time is almost as important as the product.
Ubuntu should not be paying to solve Debian problems, the fact that they release all they're patches back to the Debian project is already a plus. I think xfce, and e17 are great projects but do we real need D.E. being pushed at companies, I think we should fix tweak gnome and kde and push that.
42 • Debian - thoughts on punctuality (by Debian User on 2006-09-25 18:21:36 GMT from Poland)
Imho it always comes to this:
What do we need? Which distro suits best our needs?
Debian is often outdated, however - it's VERY stable and secure.
Do we always need the latest/freshest software? I'm running a small business - do I really need all the newest packages? Or do I care about security updates and reliability most?
Criticising Debian for it's long release cycle is simply judging the wrong distro for you. For me - it's reliability is a good thing (I install it once and don't care about maintanance).
Punctuality - so OK, Sarge was too much (I started working with it's stable release), but still - if Debian dies, so does half of the Linux market.
43 • Re: Country Stats... (by Andrei on 2006-09-25 18:41:11 GMT from Romania)
Your method sounds way to complicated, although it is true that the actual population is completely irrelevant for a web statistic. If it's possible to get the number of allocated IPs (from IANA?) and use that for calculating the Index it would be much more precise.
44 • Ubuntu (by David on 2006-09-25 18:51:05 GMT from Germany)
Perhaps I'm being too paranoid... But I think Ubuntu is onto something. I mean, I beleive that they're developing something big and Ubuntu is just the test field. With this release, Edgy, they start to charge a little amount per-cd and... who knows? Perhaps Pinky and The Brain are finally going to conquer the World! haha.
No, seriously, I've never bought the idea of Ubuntu being so free... Because, I mean, Mr. Shuttleworth has invested a good amount of money hasn't he?
45 • Re: 16 • i hope debian will soon die.... (by Anonymous on 2006-09-25 18:59:41 GMT from Spain)
Debian was one of the first distros, and it continues to be great for server and for desktop. A lot of other distros depend on it, and it has by far the best package manager. And it's completely open and free, very few can say it. They are very concerned with it continuing to be, and don't want to become even remotely commercial, that's why they're afraid of this idea.
Kudos to all the great people making Debian possible, keep the good work, and for those who say things like #16... remember that Linux won't be what it is without Debian.
46 • 41 (by AC on 2006-09-25 19:07:04 GMT from United States)
"the fact that they (Ubuntu) release all they're patches back to the Debian project is already a plus"
The GPL requires them to do that. And they don't do a particularly good job making those patches easy to integrate back into Debian, which is something the GPL doesn't require.
47 • Why are so much Debian Based Distros? (by Lito Steel on 2006-09-25 19:34:01 GMT from Mexico)
I think that's an error, all of you have said "If Debian dies, half linux Dies". This is something to worry about. And that's the problem of "Debian based" distros proliferation. It's the same thing if they used "Fedora based" or as actually is ocurring "Ubuntu based", when Ubuntu is a "Debian based" distro...
So many "XXXX based" distros. Developers can start form scratch, cannot they?
Maybe is time to standarize Linux. e.g. Package Management, Code Management, Administration Tools, User Tools, etc.
Just my 5 cents!!
48 • SabayonLinux (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-09-25 19:36:45 GMT from Italy)
The Gentoo installer was dropped because of grave bugs (it used to destroy logical partitions) and because of harsh criticism. The Gentoo developers wouldn't listen to Fabio Erculiani's suggestions. I personally urged Fabio to "borrow" a different installer.
The new Anaconda installer takes ages (on very fast hardware), but at least it doesn't destroy your partitions.
49 • Debian, money, Xfce, and love for Linux.... (by Caraibes on 2006-09-25 19:40:52 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Just a word about Linux XP... I am a regular DW reader, and I don't remember having clicked...
-Did I ?..... -Don't remember....
I don't have any interest whatsoever in anything named XP (shame on me, my cpu is an Athlon XP ;) )
About Debian, I hope they'll fix their disagreement... If a bit of money has to be paid, what the hell, I know it is not ethical, but no one's perfect... There can't be Talibans anymore... It is normal for a numerous group of people to have fights here and there, they just have to overcome it.
E17, Xfce, Fluxbox... yes, I am having fun this week switching between those desktops on my Blag main PC... Since I enjoy Zenwalk, I gave Blag a Zenwalk look, and it works well... Keep in mind Blag is based on Fedora, so FC users could do it too.... On another Blag box, I use mostly Fluxbox, because it's faster... However, so far, when in need of a "real" WM, I go back to Gnome ;)
A word about Edgy Eft... No free-cd's, it seems that the release is just a beta for Edgy+1... I hate to say it, but I have the feeling Fedora is a stronger base than Ubuntu (better hardware recognition)... Anyway, I am one of those who thinks Canonical should spead some money into Debian, to help its foundation...
Too bad Elive is charging for the download, I was gonna try it, but I can't pay for various real reasons...
Now, my best regards to the DWW readers, to Ladislav, and to all of you out there who participate at creating all these distros, that I always enjoy using !
50 • Sigh... (by 1c3d0g on 2006-09-25 19:48:25 GMT from Aruba)
#25: why should they let you know? Mark always said that Edgy Eft will be more of an "experimental" release, so maybe they don't want to let newbies think that particular release is representative of the whole distro. Who knows? I don't think any of us are in the position to demand anything. :-/
Anyway, it's no surprise Debian can't keep its act together. They want to take on this entire planet yet their own developers can't even stand each other. How pathetic. That's why I'll *never* contiminate my PC's with Debian.
51 • Correction: Novell SLED 10 shipped with a GUI for Xgl/Compiz 3D effects (by rexbinary on 2006-09-25 19:58:43 GMT from United States)
Novell's SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop shipped with a very nice GUI for Xgl/Compiz 3D effects back in the month of July of this year.
The images of the one being included with openSUSE have exceeded the host's bandwidth, so I cannot verify it's the same, but I'm sure it is.
Novell/SUSE has been shipping a GUI for months before anyone else, makes sense since it came from their camp.
52 • Re:16 • i hope debian will soon die.... (by fukodlak from Croatia, hm hm) (by LinuxUser on 2006-09-25 20:00:43 GMT from United States)
I hope no!! Debian and IMO Slackware are "bibble" for all other distros.
53 • RE: #47 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-09-25 20:22:11 GMT from Italy)
The reason why so many distros are Debian based is because nothing comes even close to Debian. Debian is a *huge* metadistro, supporting a dozen architectures, each with up to 20,000 apps.
Besides Debian is extremely flexible, you can make it what you want, and has very powerful tools like dpkg, apt, aptitude, debconf...
You can install either binaries or source, very easily.
All that free in both meanings of the word.
Can you see why now?
54 • sabayon (by gentoo fan on 2006-09-25 20:40:19 GMT from United States)
ya i really want to try sabayon but i need that mini cd to come out since i dont have dvd drive. sigh hope this average age system has enough juice in it to use it (have used xgl well before though...)
55 • I agree (by SimoneDice on 2006-09-25 20:49:37 GMT from United States)
I completely agree that openSuse is very bugy and Fedora would be the best if it weren't so ugly.
I really have to state that if Fedora and Ubuntu weren't so ugly and had a really easy to use program to configur the user interface and boot up graphics to how the user likes it, then there wouldn't be much stopping Fedora, and for the most part Ubuntu, from being the only 2 really used linux distrobutions.
56 • Linux XP (by Sultan Khan on 2006-09-25 20:56:37 GMT from Canada)
I think linux xp is a trashy menace to the linux community. It gives linux a bad name by making it cost $40 and if you don't pay up it will torture you until you pay or delete it by force.I tried it oce and it didn't work so i triumphantly shredded the disc using a heavy duty shredder. We should boycott this trash and inform the GPL police. I think they will find some violations.
57 • RE: 50 (by boingboing on 2006-09-25 20:59:43 GMT from Finland)
So you're thinking that ShipIt will from now on only ship the LTS releases because they're better for newbies than the in-between releases? Do you seriously expect newbies to choose Ubuntu if it has obsolete software??? No way!
58 • re:#56 (by pedcol on 2006-09-25 21:12:49 GMT from United States)
Hey! According to it's website it's the fastest selling distro in Russia. I think they ship it as an add-on with Vodka.
59 • Ulteo (by linbetwin on 2006-09-25 21:23:32 GMT from Romania)
http://beranger.org/index.php?article=1633&from=rss
Finally, some... not so exciting news about Ulteo.
60 • Sigh again... (by 1c3d0g on 2006-09-25 21:39:51 GMT from Aruba)
#57: Learn to read. I said "maybe", and "who knows" (what the real motive is). I just offered a POSSIBLE explanation, I didn't claim *that* was the reason. Don't put words in my mouth, mkay? Thanks.
61 • Linspire HQ (by PePa on 2006-09-25 21:43:23 GMT from Canada)
It does look much smaller than their former head quarters, which didn't look too shabby: http://www.linspire.com/lindows_about_contact.php#directions
62 • Fedora's new init system (by mooseman on 2006-09-25 21:48:57 GMT from New Zealand)
I agree with Fedora getting a new init system, but I would very much like them to use Ubuntu's "upstart".
( I am a Fedora user, but I can still see when another distro has a good bit of software that is worth using ... )
I'm starting to **really** dislike it when distros just keep re-inventing the wheel - the "not-invented-here" syndrome.
Come on Fedora - hoping you'll "see the light" and use Upstart...
63 • Re: 59 • Ulteo (by Ariszló on 2006-09-25 21:49:11 GMT from Hungary)
Not a very goo idea to compete with Google's YouOS. Perhaps, it won't. Quoting from http://www.ulteo.com/main/download.php :
Ulteo OS download
Soon to be released (ETA: October - November 2006).
The Ulteo operating system will be available for download as soon as possible. The first releases are going to be beta releases.
The Ulteo OS will be available full-featured for FREE download.
64 • Dust in the Wind (by william johnson on 2006-09-25 22:16:51 GMT from United States)
Funny, when you are using PCLinuxOS .93A "big daddy" , all these
complaints seem SO SUPERFLUOUS.
65 • ELive (by tom on 2006-09-25 22:34:24 GMT from United States)
No, you do not have to pay to download.
Donation however is encouraged.
IMO:
Just a comment about Linux being "free". Yes it is true, but are you willing to contribute to the cause?
By that I only mean to point out that many of the applications in the open source community are written and maintained by developers.
If you like this service consider donating 25-50 $ yearly to your favorite developer, application, distro (Debian, Ubuntu, Zenwalk, Arch, Slackware, Gentoo...), whatever. This will keep the Linux community going and is certainly a small investment in return for the service. Think of like contributing to NPR or PBS.
66 • Nothing is free (by Andrew on 2006-09-25 22:47:04 GMT from Canada)
I don't see anything wrong with paying any Linux developer. There time IS worth money, so if they charge I open my wallet, Suse released a nice distro if it supported my laptop better, and I had a way to pay using paypal I would pay the 50.
67 • Donations (by Caraibes on 2006-09-25 23:15:06 GMT from Dominican Republic)
You guys, don't misunderstand me... I am all for donations, and I should donate to at the very least : Blag, Zenwalk, Puppy, Streamtuner, aMsn, Gaim, TVtime...
I am just not in the position right now, so I try to contribute by other means (answering questions in forums/IRC, writing how-to's in wiki...)
I understand the Elive people, I too would enjoy making a couple of bucks out of my hard work... This is not a critic... I am just saying I can't test-drive the distro...
However reading about Elive made me enthusiastic again about E17, so I am right now in Blag/Enlightenment...
68 • 65 (by AC on 2006-09-25 23:32:06 GMT from United States)
https://www.fsf.org/associate/support_freedom
http://www.spi-inc.org/donations
http://www.gnome.org/friends/
69 • No subject (by JAG on 2006-09-25 23:53:42 GMT from United States)
RE: 13 Have you tried PuppyLinux?
RE: 26 Money just amplifies what's already there.
RE: Debian...They should just release the OS when it's ready!
70 • archlinux init (by Anonymous on 2006-09-26 00:00:16 GMT from Canada)
Fedora developers should look at the way init and services/deamons works on Archlinux ! They will be very impressed !
71 • Why not IPOD Linux project (by Andrew on 2006-09-26 00:25:32 GMT from Canada)
I like slackware, and xfce but I think we should give money to the ipod project the installer is great and its based on qt4 so it runs in, Linux, Windows, and OS X. they also look the same. I love watching The Office (us version) on my nano
72 • Please don't force your students to use Vim (by gnobuddy on 2006-09-26 00:32:11 GMT from United States)
Sabayon (by Tom on 2006-09-25 16:34:18 GMT from United States)
I must admit that I was very impressed with Sabayon, I used it to boot the lab computers at my school into linux for my weekly linux seminar last week, and many of the students were greatly impressed, although to my dismay, the absance of Vim will mean that I will need to use a different live CD/DVD in the future when I am teaching config files etc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm glad you're teaching your students Linux, but please don't force them to use this ancient, horrible, unfriendly editor (Vim). They will be wasting precious effort fighting the editor rather than learning the much more important concepts you're teaching.
Just about the only console-based text editor I've found on Linux that actually makes sense is mcedit, part of the Midnight Commander or "mc" package. If you gather ten or twenty of your students, have them try to do a task first with Vim, then with mcedit, and ask them how they fared and which they preferred, I think you will know why using Vim to teach config file editing is a bad, bad, bad, bad idea.
-Gnobuddy
73 • Statistics (by Roman on 2006-09-26 00:36:56 GMT from Israel)
Hi, Ladislav
Thanks for your work on the site.
As you were reviewing figures in your Statistics portion of DWW, you correctly qualified your comments by pointing out that it should be viewed with regard to "availability and ... affordability of ... Internet connections" in regions in question. However there is another thing that I think you could mention as well, and this is the level of English of computer users in various countries. I know for sure (and think that you do as well) about the situation in Russia in this respect. Many people interested in Linux at best have only basic level of English, and so distrowatch.com can be of little use to them. And I am also of opinion that this applies to China and India as well.
74 • Donations (by Paul on 2006-09-26 00:55:36 GMT from United States)
I, too, was surprised to be confronted by a donation demand for elive. Not that it was a bad thing, just surprising.
I'm pretty culturally ignorant, but...
I was blown away by the readership from countries whose native language was not one of the chosen 7 available translations of Distrowatch. I have tried to make sense of a few Russian sites and it's a lot of work for me. Perhaps countries should get bonus points if their native language is not on the list of 7.
75 • RE: 2, 73 Statistics (by ladislav on 2006-09-26 01:05:44 GMT from Taiwan)
It's difficult to quantify the effect of localisation on visitors from non-English speaking countries. As you can see from the results, the top few countries are all non-English speaking, while countries where English is used as a primary language are further behind - Canada is 7th, USA 11th, Australia 14th, New Zealand 17th, UK 24th and South Africa, where English is widely spoken and understood, is only 71st. This would indicate that the primary language of the web site is not as important a factor for the visitors as some of you seem to believe.
As for Asia, some people suggested stronger localisation for Asian languages. Again, I am not convinced that translating these pages into Chinese would bring in more visitors from China. Firstly, Chinese is already supported on the site - in fact, of all the language localisations on DistroWatch, simplified Chinese is the most complete (thanks to tireless work of Dr Zhu in Beijing). While all the news is still in English, Chinese visitors can see the navigation interface completely in Chinese and all distribution descriptions have also been translated into Chinese.
Secondly, if a stronger Chinese localisation was such an important factor, how do you explain the fact that we get more visitors from Taiwan (population 22 million) than from China (population 1.3 billion)? As anyone who has been to Taiwan can confirm, English is not widely spoken in this country, although from my experience, many people can understand written English rather well. I've never been to China itself, but I suspect that the situation there is similar.
In a word, I'd like to continue improving the site's localisation into various languages, but I don't believe that this alone will draw more visitors from China, India, Russia and other countries with low visitor figures.
76 • RE: 74 (by ladislav on 2006-09-26 01:27:33 GMT from Taiwan)
DistroWatch is partially localised into 38 languages (not just 7). It would be awkward to display all 38 of them in the navigation bar, but the links do show up whenever they are relevant - depending on the visitor's country of origin. The page also automatically loads the language indicated as the visitors preferred language in his/her browser setting.
The available languages (with credits for the translation - it's all volunteer work) can be seen on the About page:
http://distrowatch.com/about
77 • 75 Statistics (by Paul on 2006-09-26 01:29:18 GMT from United States)
Ladislav, the navigation localization is a very nice feature. I learn a lot about navigating non-english sites by using familiar ones like Distrowatch and their translation features as a Rosetta stone to help me make sense navigating others.
The English content is what is fascinating. I suspect hits come daily from people who neither read, write, nor speak English well enough to understand the Distrowatch content. But maybe they don't need to in order to get what they want. Maybe it's something else.
78 • 72 Vim (by AC on 2006-09-26 02:00:28 GMT from United States)
Have you looked into nano, the free pico clone, as an editor for students. I highly recommend it to beginners.
However, some vi clone is essential to a well rounded Unix education. It is the only editor guaranteed by POSIX. I happen to prefer the more lightweight nvi from Berkeley and I prefer Emacs for most things, but some vi is worth knowing.
79 • No subject (by fukodlak on 2006-09-26 03:29:03 GMT from Croatia)
ok i was a little rough on my first comment, i don't realy want debian to die. but i want their way of thinking to become extinct. some other comments described that perfectly. and i would gladly see debian developers joining other projects 'cause you say debian is base to many distributions, but there are many other distributions based on fedora or something else. debian is maybe great but it's not irreplaceable. not even close.
that money issue should not be an issue at all, and i go crazy every time i see debian developers talking against ubuntu or gentoo and things like that. according to them ubuntu sucks and ubuntu ships free cd's over the world...what could be better than that?
like someone said, it's a huge ego problem, and if these guys think that they're on the path to higher cause 'cause they're making open source system...a symptom of insanity.
80 • nano (by towsonu2003 on 2006-09-26 05:13:46 GMT from United States)
without nano, I'd be miserable when X fails or when I break it. And yes, I use Ubuntu :)
81 • RE: i hope debian will soon die... (by towsonu2003 on 2006-09-26 05:29:49 GMT from United States)
"i want their way of thinking to become extinct."
I keep thinking you don't think twice before you write. In one sentence, you want an ideology of pure opensource extinct. That's just weird to read in distrowatch...
82 • Re: 64 - Kid-Safe 0.25-beta (by Dedicated Kidsafe on 2006-09-26 05:35:28 GMT from Australia)
Kid Safe is a remaster re-built on top of PCLinuxOS p93a-MiniMe
was posted today at LinuxTracker for those who are interested ?
here http://linuxtracker.org/torrents-details.php?id=2927
Very nice spin off from its parent PCLinoxOS p93a-MiniMe distro
For info also see http://bellsouthpwp2.net/w/i/wizard_rb/kid-safe/
83 • LinuxXP (by dan on 2006-09-26 07:32:09 GMT from United Kingdom)
I downloaded LinuxXP and installed it in a VM and my first imprssions were indeed that it was crippleware - you can't install any new programs easily, only openoffice without registering. My second impressions was the hole thing is treading a very fine line; the name, default inclusion of amule and HP printer settings manager all seem to have potentail licenseing issues.
84 • Opinion (by Max on 2006-09-26 09:37:55 GMT from Brazil)
Hi Ladislav. I always appreciate the work you are doing but I think you are going a bit over the board with your statistics.
I understand your line of thought when you ranked the countries by the index you created but I think your method is HUGELY flawed and misleading.
You cannot seriously rank "linux interest" with that index. How can you compare Luxembourg and China by a mere population index?
You are saying 1,000,000 million linux users in China are less representative then 385 in Luxembourg? (Do the math -> 1.3bi vs 500.000).
I think that ranking doesn't even serve illustrative purposes, I'm sorry...
You say "it seems that interest in Linux and open source software in those countries is far lower than the big international Linux companies would like us to believe." So Red Hat should concentrate on selling Linux to 385 people in Luxembourg and forget about the 1,000,000 in China?
Maybe you could have left the index information there, but you could not have it ranked by that index.
With all the respect I have for you, that list looks a bit naive at best...
I think you are giving people the wrong idea...
Sincerely
Max
85 • RE: #79 (by Anselm on 2006-09-26 10:00:36 GMT from Germany)
i go crazy every time i see debian developers talking against ubuntu or gentoo and things like that. according to them ubuntu sucks
Maybe you could provide us with links to some of those statements so that we can see in what context Debian developers have said something like that? I know that some Debian developers have criticized the quality of the patches that Ubuntu devs send them but that's about as far as it goes, and I've never read about Debian developers talking against Gentoo.
like someone said, it's a huge ego problem, and if these guys think that they're on the path to higher cause 'cause they're making open source system...a symptom of insanity.
You know what, I think you (and all the journalists who are so fond of reporting the debates on the Debian mailing lists) are taking these occasional quarrels far too seriously. Most of the Debian developers have a very well-developed sense of humour and they can also make fun of themselves. When Anthony Towns was elected the Debian Project Leader, some of his fellow developers sent him the following video and likened the task of leading Debian to herding cats. Then several other developers wished him good luck in herding a thousand cats. ;-)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7635587316493151891
I also think you're wrong in connecting the mailing list debates to big egos. I think it's more to do with their love for Debian as a non-profit volunteer project and their passion for producing quality code. And that can't be all bad, can it?
It's precisely that love and passion that can sometimes lead to overstatements (like the suggestion to recall the DPL). Developers are not exactly known for their social and diplomatic skills and sometimes their love for Debian can lead to rash and unadvised expressions.
It is too easy for journalists and their reading audiences to misunderstand those passionate overstatements. Then you end up thinking that Debian developers spend all their time quarrelling instead of producing code, although there's actually no evidence at all that the developers would produce less code just because they love Debian too much. Journalists should also understand that these occasional tensions simply are an unavoidable aspect of all democratic decision-making processes. Real demcracy, where everyone has the freedom to express their opinions, cannot exist without such tensions.
Instead of reporting ad nauseam the details of the mailing list debates, journalists should perhaps sometimes take a look at the code that has actually been produced in Debian since the last stable release. Then it should become obvious that Debian has made amazing progress and it looks like the next stable Debian release 4.0 (codenamed "etch") is going to be their best release so far. It's the results that make it all worth while.
86 • RE: 84 Opinion (by ladislav on 2006-09-26 10:48:46 GMT from Taiwan)
Maybe you could have left the index information there, but you could not have it ranked by that index.
I've done that too. But then I started receiving many more complaints than this time around. With all the big, rich countries on top (38% of all visitors on DistroWatch live in the USA, only 1% in China), where would fun be in that?
So Red Hat should concentrate on selling Linux to 385 people in Luxembourg and forget about the 1,000,000 in China?
I am not saying that you don't have an valid point, but you are picking two extreme examples to show how completely out of line my analysis is. Sure, you can look at it your way and ignore Luxembourg, because China is so much bigger. But then you are forgetting that it will require a lot more resources, man power and effort to sell 1,000 Linux licenses in China that it will take to sell the same amount in Luxembourg.
As my former boss used to say, China only looks like a big market. In actual reality, it's very small. I think the figures above illustrate this fact.
Anyway, we can argue forever whose analysis is more naive and flawed, but I think that the above figures do give a certain perspective into the markets in China and other big, low-income countries. If you disagree, you are welcome to disregard the data. Just remember that China has been the world's most populous country for centuries, yet the biggest companies in the world are big and rich because they sell their products in America and Europe, not in China or India. It might not be so for ever, but I doubt that things will change in the foreseeable future.
87 • Paying For Linux (by TJinPgh on 2006-09-26 11:18:08 GMT from United States)
A lot of comments on Linux charging or being paid for things this week.
ELive: The only real problem I have with their donation system is that they ask you to assess what their distrobution is worth before you've had a chance to try it. How would we know? Are they suggesting we d/l the betas first to "try before we by?" Ok, but, as a general rule, I try to avoid betas. If they don't intend to charge a set fee for the product, I'd rather d/l it first, then donate if I feel the product has an actual future.
LinuxXP: I have no real problem with their system. One of my big complaints about that OTHER XP is that whenever they come out with a new version of an OS, they don't offer a trial version to see if people actually want to use it. Of course, that other XP doesn't care. LinuxXP should have done a better job of letting people know using it beyond an initial boot up (assuming you want updates) will cost you money. And, I think updates should have been included for a few days. Other than that, if the product is worth $40, I don't have a problem paying $40. We've paid a heck of a lot more than that for the junk coming out of that other XP's store room.
Debian: Sooner or later, people actually expect their time to be worth something. Sad, but true. (yes, that was sarcasm). It's unlikely that even 1% of those who complain about it would do any part of their job for free, yet we expect them to dedicate their entire lives for it. When you consider how many distros are BASED on their work, each of 'em kicking in a couple of bucks here and there isn't unreasonable.
88 • Slackware 11 packages in Slackware Current (by Ariszló on 2006-09-26 13:06:48 GMT from Hungary)
The version numbers of these packages indicate that Slackware 11 is imminent:
aaa_base-11.0.0-noarch-2.tgz
etc-11.0-noarch-1.tgz
pkgtools-11.0.0-i486-4.tgz
http://www.slackware.com/changelog/current.php?cpu=i386
89 • RE: #79 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-09-26 13:31:54 GMT from Italy)
"i go crazy every time i see debian developers talking against ubuntu or gentoo and things like that. according to them ubuntu sucks and ubuntu ships free cd's over the world...what could be better than that?"
It drives *me* mad when paranoid Ubuntu or Gentoo zealots start spreading fud about something they can't even begin to understand.
I had to intervene personally in the Gentoo forum because of that, although I must admit that many Gentoo users were standing for Debian even better than me.
But nothing could be worse than Ubuntu zealots saying "Debian must die"
Unfortunately I have read it quite a few times.
That is exactly like somebody wishing their parents to die, while they are still being fed by their parents.
This sort of stupidity can only come from people who until yesterday knew nothing but winbloze.
90 • Sabayon (by Nate on 2006-09-26 15:37:11 GMT from United States)
I've spent the last month or so with a dual boot of the RC of Sabayon and KateOS 3.0. They are nicely complimentary distros. Sabayon is attractive and really does have everything, but it's a bit slow to get underway and is a little too sprawling. I tend to dither while I'm booted into it and spend my time poking around rather than working. It's great fun, but bad for my productivity. KateOS is also a very attractive distro, but it's much more nimble and pared down, especially as its installer allowed me to put together a pretty minimal system. It feels complete, but has a lot less in it. Kate encourages me to buckle down and get things done. I'm very happy with this pairing, and will be even happier once I upgrade the Sabyon install.
91 • RE: #59 Ulteo (by newbie on 2006-09-26 16:01:24 GMT from Finland)
In Ulteo Forum Gael gives some more information about "connected desktop":
"while what is in the Linux Format article is mostly true as far as I've read it, there is a little detail which makes all the difference. What the article calls "Ulteo" is in fact only one part of the Ulteo concept.
This part of Ulteo is called the "connected desktop", and I think you can guess how it can certainly be useful for several things. Even for starting to convert Windows users to Linux.
Anyway, yes, the connected desktop is one brick of Ulteo, because Ulteo is of course a full OS which will have a particular feature (and several ones to come)."
92 • Linux XP (by Jay S. on 2006-09-26 17:48:04 GMT from United States)
Concerning screenshots from the Linux XP site: The primary thing that stood out to me is that not one of them showed the "Start" menu open. Instead of functionality most of them showcase redundant application windows.
93 • Mandriva 2007 released ...or not yet (by linbetwin on 2006-09-26 20:47:06 GMT from Romania)
This site [http://www.linuxlookup.com/2006/sep/26/mandriva_linux_2007_released] claims Mandriva Linux 2007 has been released, but the mandriva.com page it links to [http://www.mandriva.com/linux/2007] only says to check back in a few days. Hmmm...
94 • Mandriva 2007: the Prices were released! (by Béranger on 2006-09-26 21:56:23 GMT from Romania)
http://beranger.org/index.php?article=1647
95 • Elive revisted (by Larry on 2006-09-26 23:15:25 GMT from United States)
Elive can be had at no cost. It's a slower option to download but that's no big deal. I have a hunch that once Ubuntu weds a mature E17 the Linux world is going to change forever. It's robust and doesn't have that Windoze feel like Kd and Gn. If anything it's more like a Mac on steroids.
96 • Paid Debian.. how about a trust.. (by Anthony on 2006-09-27 04:21:17 GMT from New Zealand)
I personaly think debian developers should be paid to some extent. No pay no PC.. no net.. no food.. developer dies due to lack of funding..
I think its time that a trust is setup for the debian project.
5%+ pa
500,000 = 25,000pa 10 developers would recive 2500pa
This in turn would need a finance team to manage the funds in a trust.
Trust should be units based with the option to reinvest.
Sure 500k isnt much for this type of thing but it could be used to pay for the 100pm connections of lead developers.
97 • Free alternative to Elive (by Ariszló on 2006-09-27 05:58:36 GMT from Hungary)
It is called Olive:
http://isteve.depressant.org/olive/
98 • BLAG50002 (mendoza) has been released. (by Caraibes on 2006-09-27 11:37:47 GMT from Dominican Republic)
BLAG50002 (mendoza) has been released.
http://forums.blagblagblag.org/viewtopic.php?p=16634#16634
99 • Elive (by tom on 2006-09-27 13:34:57 GMT from United States)
# 95. Look Up....
Yes Elive is available at no cost.
# 97 Thank you. Downloading Olive now. The torrent is reasonably fast.
AUSTRUMI
Is also free and also nice.
http://cyti.latgola.lv/ruuni/index_en.html
100 • Linux XP (by dn2010 on 2006-09-27 14:27:57 GMT from Russian Federation)
Linux XP team is famous for their anti-GPL speeches, their distro is Fedora with unuseful "perdelka"s and only answer for "I'm novice and I have troubles with Linux XP" I have ever seen in forums is "Install another distro, please".
101 • Elive, Olive & Austrumi (by Ariszló on 2006-09-27 15:56:07 GMT from Hungary)
Tom wrote: Austrumi is also free and also nice.
Yes, it looks nice:
http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=645&slide=2&title=austrumi+1.2.0+screenshots
102 • Sabayon (by tom on 2006-09-27 19:51:42 GMT from United States)
Sabayon mini. Now you're talking. The DVD is just too big....
Hard to call 690 Mb a mini...
Jr perhaps?
Anyone try it yet?
103 • Linux XP (by Anonymous on 2006-09-28 00:01:50 GMT from Germany)
"The king is dead, long live the king!" ;-)
Well, I don't think that it'll last, but Linux XP finally topped out Ubuntu's H.P.D.-count regarding the last 7 days. As of now, Linux XP is #1 with 2515, followed by Ubuntu with 2452.
104 • 103 Linux XP (by AC on 2006-09-28 02:40:11 GMT from United States)
And does anyone don't manipulation?
105 • RE: 85 & 89 (by kilgoretrout on 2006-09-28 03:04:46 GMT from United States)
I completely agree with your take on the Debian situation and some of the negative comments that have been posted on that subject. Finally, some sanity.
Personally, I am content to let the debian devleopers sort out their funding issues for themselves. I an not a debian developer nor am I otherwise involved with debian. I don't even particularly like debian. Nevertheless, I value the good work that debian does in maintaining a truly community distro and am puzzled by the disparaging remarks of others.
106 • 104 (by AC on 2006-09-28 03:27:51 GMT from United States)
don't=doubt
107 • Puppy XP community edition (by Lobster (Official Cructacean) on 2006-09-28 07:08:24 GMT from United Kingdom)
Well done to Linux XP for offering the security blanket that many consumers need. "Please charge us money so we know it is good." Ker ching [cash registers]
I nearly downloaded it. After all all those people downloading . . . must be something good? Then I read the comments from you distrowatch guys and decided to leave well alone (that is my choice).
Looking at their screen shot I realized my distro of choice already is very similar to XP (and like most distros can be made more so for free)
However they have given me an idea for the name for our next community edition of Puppy Linux
We are going to call it Puppy XP community edition - should create some interest from the kennels :)
108 • 107 (by AC on 2006-09-28 12:56:25 GMT from United States)
Am I the only one really irritated by the Puppy spam? That's not a rhetorical question. If no one else is irritated then I'm probably just a crabby person and I'll keep further irritation to myself.
109 • Puppy XP (by Ariszló on 2006-09-28 13:39:33 GMT from Hungary)
AC wrote: Am I the only one really irritated by the Puppy spam?
I only get irritated when there are too many uninformative posts about a distro like my posts about Paldo or Olive (!=OliveBSD). As for the Puppy posts, I find most of them more or less informative. 107 was even funny. :-)
110 • Puppy spam (by Caraibes on 2006-09-28 14:01:14 GMT from Dominican Republic)
I can't get irritated with Puppy, it is my USB pendrive distro, and the live-cd is always on my toolbox !
And usually Lobster finds a way to make a relevant comment on the week's actuality !
Plus, we all spam a bit, because most of us have a "sweetheart-distro", no big deal, it's part of the ambience...
111 • a rhetorical answer (by Lobster Spam on 2006-09-28 15:59:54 GMT from United Kingdom)
"Am I the only one really irritated by the Puppy spam?"
No I am irritated by it too crabby . . . here is a link to the promised PuppyXP with the new slogan "A better Vista"
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PuppyXP
enjoy the luncheon meat (aka spam) and be kind to the fish
112 • Edgy goes beta (by linbetwin on 2006-09-28 19:06:36 GMT from Romania)
Here's some Ubuntu spamming, too: the Edgy Eft beta has been released.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/Beta
Y'all should switch, people! After all, even Bill Clinton says all you need is ubuntu =))
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/5388182.stm
113 • ;-) spamming on Blag ;-) (by Caraibes on 2006-09-28 21:05:12 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Hey, guys,
Since we are all spamming about our our "sweetheart-distro", let me contribute once again to this trend :
Blag 50002 is a great release !!! It wasn't advertised in Distrowatch, because Jebba was busy enough making a great distro ! And yes, Blag needs a bit of PR & marketing... But the distro is just great ! See it here :
http://forums.blagblagblag.org/viewtopic.php?t=2622
;-) That was the spam of the day !!! ;-)
114 • No subject (by Akuna on 2006-09-28 21:38:18 GMT from France)
108 --- I'm probably just a crabby person ---
Well, now that you mention it... ;-)
115 • Waiting for the waiting list (by Ariszló on 2006-09-28 21:47:01 GMT from Hungary)
Even getting to the waiting list is not that easy. Ichthux was submitted a month ago but it is still not there:
http://www.ichthux.com/en/node/21
Ichthux is like Ubunte CE but based on Kubuntu. In fact, it has been around longer than UCE.
116 • #107 (by 1c3d0g on 2006-09-28 21:57:01 GMT from Aruba)
We get it. Now go away. >:|
117 • New Distro Linux, WENDYX (by Enrique Herrera Noya on 2006-09-28 23:31:18 GMT from Chile)
WENDYX Linux , is in spanish (es_CL)
url://www.decurauma.cl/wendyx
118 • Kanotix 2006-01-rc3 is a great live CD (by Bill Savoie on 2006-09-29 00:45:24 GMT from United States)
Finding KANOTIX releasing a new RC3 I just had to try it out. This is a wonderful distribution! It is getting so easy to install Debian, and then so easy to use apt-get, and as far as I can tell Everything works! I like Mepis too, but I find myself installing vim. With KANOTIX all I need to do is install the Ada programming language. Thanks guys..
119 • RE: # 118 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-09-29 00:57:41 GMT from Italy)
I second that. You get Debian up and running in 15/20 minutes, everything works out of the box and with many extra tools (mainly scripts)
My weekly spam allowance :)
120 • installing Debian (by AC on 2006-09-29 04:34:27 GMT from United States)
"It is getting so easy to install Debian"
That's very true. Etch beta3 installs easily. Not sure how that applies to Kanotix. The Kanotix installer is kludgey and limiting. Great live CD though.
121 • Questions about Debian Etch (by linbetwin on 2006-09-29 06:50:43 GMT from Romania)
I want to try Etch. Tried a netinstall of Sarge a few months ago but it didn't recognize my USB-connected cable modem.
Anyway, now I'm thinking of trying the CD/DVD. Is it at beta 3, or does that apply only to the installer? Do I download a beta, or a daily build? How many of the CDs do I need for a default install? Thanks.
122 • 121 Installing Etch (by AC on 2006-09-29 08:01:28 GMT from United States)
http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/
While floppy install is unavailable (though the are working on bringing it back) you can still bootstrap a whole Debian system from the netinstall mini CD if you have a fast connection.
beta3 refers to the installer, but you can download a complete set of Etch from that installer release and it's pretty smooth. Daily builds will use the same installer.
The "default install" of Debian in pretty sparse (most obviously, no X. It's just a minimal Unix system plus Debian specific tools that are text based) and fits on the first CD (not the netinstall however), but tasksel runs during the install and if you choose "Desktop Environment", gives you a fairly complete GNOME based set up. I believe all of those packages are on the first 3 CDs. But if you have a fast connection, you can just install everything from the repositories. If you want KDE or something else, I can't say which CDs you'll need.
Incidentally, the reason a basic GNOME desktop takes 3 CDs, while eg Ubuntu fits on one, is that packages are on the CDs in order of popularity and since Debian is also widely used as a server OS, those first disks have things like Apache too.
123 • RE: #122 (by linbetwin on 2006-09-29 08:56:57 GMT from Romania)
Thanks, AC. I'll give etch a try as soon as I have some time on my hands.
124 • xubuntu new release? (by jan coeli on 2006-09-29 11:44:10 GMT from United States)
noticed updating of both ubuntu & kubuntu in different fashion but have not lately seen much on xfce front -- is any new release or feature upgrade in works for xubuntu?
visiting your site always a pleasure...
rgds,
K
125 • RE: #120 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-09-29 12:17:35 GMT from Italy)
"The Kanotix installer is kludgey and limiting."
I could agree with "limiting" (it is after all a few clicks install), but to a KDE user like me it gives an almost ideal setting. And surely it is a lot less intimidating for a newbie.
But kludgy?
Definition of kludgy from Dictionary.com:
1. A system, especially a computer system, that is constituted of poorly matched elements or of elements originally intended for other applications.
2. A clumsy or inelegant solution to a problem.
So " kludgy" sounds like a very subjective opinion.
126 • 125 (by AC on 2006-09-29 19:34:13 GMT from United States)
By "limiting", I don't just mean the choice of packages. If it were all GNOME, I'd have the same complaint. Still, your point about not intimidating newcomers is well taken. And not everyone, e.g. wants to be able to have a separate /boot, /usr/and /usr/local mounted read-only and separate /tmp and /var mounted noexec and nosuid. Does Kanotix installer even support a separate /home? It's been awhile. But this is one example of the sort of thing I find limiting.
As for kludges: yes, there's a subjective element to such a judgement. The installer grew out of a series of hacks for doing something Knoppix wasn't originally meant to do: be intalled to a hard drive. Originally, you ran a bunch oof commands to copy over the loopback filesystem and fix things to make things like user accounts behave more like a normal install, but the script automated it and get a KDE front-end. Which makes little sense because being able to click yes or no or check a radio buttons to dialogues with ugly monospace fonts isn't all that attractive or graphical. maybe kludgey is subjective, but I don't think it's baseless.
127 • Kanotix Installer - Perfect for my needs. (by Bill Savoie on 2006-09-29 20:12:51 GMT from United States)
I work in a classified lab. I don't have admin access to the windows XP I am required to use. Where I work, Linux is a dirty word. Linux can't be connected to the net. I have two old computers which I have a local network between them. I can't use a net install. I can't use the 'normal' install. In 20 minutes I can download kanoitx, in 5 more minutes I can burn a CD. I write 'unclassified' on the CD in case there is an audit. I follow all the rules, because I don't want to look for another job. In this culture, if you are a software programmer, you are either web programming or working for the government. In short, Kanotix gets me to debian, to where I want to spend my time. I have limits all around me, but kanotix isn't one of them.
128 • RE: # 126 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-09-29 20:16:35 GMT from Italy)
"Does Kanotix installer even support a separate /home? It's been awhile."
No it doesn't. But personally I don't care, because my installs are always / and swap. It used to be the SUSE default, and if I remember correctly also the Libranet default. It suits my love for simple schemes.
"But this is one example of the sort of thing I find limiting."
Yes, I could imagine that, and I even said that I agree. But it depends on your needs. If you want a KDE desktop Kanotix is really good. For every other need the Debian installer is better (more flexible)
As to kludgy I believe you should try the latest Kanotix. It is a *long* way since the Knoppix installer you remember. I believe you'd be surprised. Kanotix allows you even to upgrade an existing install (maybe even of an existing Debian or Debian compatible one).
129 • UHU-Linux (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-09-29 21:19:43 GMT from Italy)
UHU-Linux must be in extremely high demand. I have been trying the whole day to download the torrent but it is absolutely impossible.
That is poor organization, IMHO. Give torrents downloads high priority and low priority to ftp/http downloads, if you don't have enough bandwidth.
130 • Kanotix (by AC on 2006-09-29 23:24:18 GMT from United States)
Just to be clear, I am not knocking Kanotix. I use Kanotix. I like Kanotix. (And I used the installer last year with 2005.4) And sometimes limits are ok and kludges are just what is needed. My only point: it ain't Debian. It doesn't install Debian. And Debian's own installer is quite good, far superior in most respects and a lot easier than it used to be.
131 • Re:UHU-Linux (by Ariszló on 2006-09-30 08:44:58 GMT from Hungary)
Try this: ftp://ftp3.uhulinux.hu/uhu/2.0/uhu-linux-2.0-cd.iso.torrent
132 • RE: #131 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-09-30 09:50:14 GMT from Italy)
Thanks Ariszló !
That did the trick. Downloading very fast now.
133 • Stats are being played with by the russian distro Linux XP ----Debian forever (by distrowatch reader on 2006-10-01 12:35:31 GMT from United States)
In the 30 day window of Distrowatches stats ????
Linux xp is rated higher than Gentoo or Kubunto!!!
The only Distro I would pay for is Xandros.
134 • Firefox trademark issues (by Diego on 2006-10-02 06:58:54 GMT from United States)
Has anybody read this?
http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3634591
Can there be a compromise between Debian and Firefox?
135 • No subject (by angels on 2006-10-02 10:06:24 GMT from Philippines)
what is the boot loader for Kubuntu 6.06 LTS?
136 • Re: #135 (by linbetwin on 2006-10-02 10:17:23 GMT from Romania)
The default boot loader for all *buntus is GRUB, but you can find LILO in the repositories.
Number of Comments: 136
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