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1 • DSL-N (by d00m3d on 2006-05-08 08:12:11 GMT from Victoria, Hong Kong)
The Damn Small Linux (NOT) is now getting big, it is not so small any more! It may be better to choose another name...
2 • Distrowatch news (by Nelson Lobo on 2006-05-08 08:26:05 GMT from Pune, India)
The weekly news service of distrowatch is just great. Keep it up.
3 • The COPE Act - sounds pretty nasty (by latte on 2006-05-08 08:46:07 GMT from Wellington, New Zealand)
Hmm... looks like big business is on the prowl again - if it's not patents, it's something like this. I'm in New Zealand, but I fully support Robert Storey's efforts to sink this proposed Act.
I wonder how long it will be before someone clever gets "mesh networking" going at broadband speeds. Then maybe we can **completely bypass** the bozos in the telecomms and cable-TV business who like to push this kind of stuff.
- latte
4 • DSL-N (by Golden on 2006-05-08 08:49:38 GMT from Winchester, United Kingdom)
Agree with d00m3d. DSL-N falls between the two camps. Bigger, but still not enough to satisfy the clamour for more. And not small enough to meet the original 50Mb criterion. Maybe if a new hyper-compression algorithm could be devised? Otherwise, the approach by Puppy has more to commend it, provided Barry Kauler can molify all the calls for more and keep the resources inventory within manageable limits. His all-new Puppy2 should prove a major innovation when it arrives and will encompass even older hardware within its ambit, making further savings to lanfill.
5 • Another fine issue (by warpengi on 2006-05-08 08:50:33 GMT from Calgary, Canada)
of DWW. Last week seemed a little ho-hum but this week has much of interest.
The one thing that really sticks out for me is the virtual appliancesfor VMWare and Xen. What a fascinating and really really good idea. Now I have to go install Xen on my web server and try out the Tomcat appliance.
Bye
6 • DSL-N (by Golden on 2006-05-08 08:52:22 GMT from Winchester, United Kingdom)
..or even landfill ! Must replace this keyboard.
7 • DSL-N (by Soloact on 2006-05-08 08:56:46 GMT from Redding, United States)
They could change it to Durn Small Linux, if it's larger than the 50 MB CDRs, but still fits on the small 180/210 CDRs. Still small media, and a lot of extra headroom to work with.
8 • Takeover (by klhrevolutionist on 2006-05-08 09:28:39 GMT from Jackson, United States)
Thanks for mentioning the ever increasing police state measures being put into place here in the United States. Hopefully others pick-up on this and post it on there blogs, wiki's, webpages, etc...
As for damn small linux, puppy runs circles around that distro in almost every aspect.
9 • Re :: 3 • The COPE Act - sounds pretty nasty (by ShakaZ on 2006-05-08 10:32:42 GMT from Bruxelles, Belgium)
Ever heard about Wifi??? It's already at 54Mbps and higher, while broadband connections typically are ranging in the 1 to 10Mbps. There already exist several free or humanitarian projects to create mesh networks, in developping countries and in big cities all around the world. If there's enough interest in such a system the population can drive the goverment to connect their open network to the internet...
10 • Little request (by Massimo on 2006-05-08 10:55:52 GMT from Torino, Italy)
Hi Ladislav,
thanks for your fine site!
One little request: it would be nice in "Summary of expected upcoming releases" list to have the final releases in evidence (e.g. in bold)
Ciao!
11 • Ever heard of Wifi? (by ozonehole on 2006-05-08 10:59:41 GMT from Taipei, Taiwan)
There already exist several free or humanitarian projects to create mesh networks, in developping countries and in big cities all around the world.
Yes, the city of Philadelphia tried to set up a community Wifi service and the telecoms jumped right in and lobbied for a state law to make it illegal because "it unfairly competes with private businesses." Don't be surprised if Bush pushes for a federal law to make community-owned Wifi illegal in every state.
Indeed, we need a "humanitarian project for a developing country" - the USA.
12 • DSL and Puppy (by Mark South on 2006-05-08 11:08:45 GMT from Langnau, Switzerland)
First, thanks Ladislav for continuing to produce Distrowatch Weekly for our enjoyment and stimulation. I say this even though sometimes it makes for horrifying reading, as it does this week because of the piece on COPE. The optimistic view is that this is another reminder that freedom is something that must be fought for every single day.
Regarding the DSL interview, it's important to understand that while DSL and Puppy have very different objectives and therefore use very different approaches, they are both good for reviving old hardware and as a base for turnkey solutions built round liveCDs. It's a shame that the DSL team made disparaging comments about Puppy based on what is clearly very out of date information gleaned from a very early version.
Regarding Debian, why is it necessarily a good thing to have frequent releases? Plenty of distros have rapid release cycles and they all suffer the same disadvantages. Diversity means that it's a good thing to have some distros on a slow and careful release cycle, especially if that means that the results are stable, thoroughly tested, and free of bugs.
13 • Small is beautiful (by Lobster on 2006-05-08 11:14:44 GMT from Rochdale, United Kingdom)
A great interview with DSL innovaters. As publicity officer for Puppy, I have a slightly different understanding. DSL uses the excellent Knoppix/Debian recognition engine. Puppy is not based on any other distro and its recognition is not as good as DSL's but if it works and it usually does, it is fast, fun and consistent. Though we look like Windows using JWM - a WM manager which we actively support and use, we can also use Enlightenment, KDE, fluxbox (the DSL default), Xfce and one or two others. We also are developing an XDG menu system that will mean the menu will be the same across these divergent eye candy. Puppy runs in ram - so on laptops HD access is a rare event. Laptop batteries last longer. Puppy boots up faster from CD then other distros do from HD. As for DSL-N . . . Basically you run Puppy, add software (usually you do not need to) and then create your own ISO. Maybe we will do one called Puppy-Y . . .
:)
Our latest Puppy Alpha7 for Puppy2 has Inkscape built in + Mozilla, Abiword (with all the trimmings), Gnumeric, Gaim etc etc
Today the second Beta for PuppyCE (1.09) our community edition will be released and announced here:
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/LatestNews
You can download the latest Puppy "Singer" (1.08r1) here.
http://www.puppylinux.org
Compare it to DSL-N and make your own mind up. Also try Austrumi which is also excellent - if a little Latvian . . . You may find as our friends at DSL say, 'Small is boootyful'
14 • Older hardware (by Caraibes on 2006-05-08 11:29:39 GMT from Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic)
Hi Folks !
I enjoyed reading the interview of the DSL guys. I do share and support their vision about "small is beautifull" !
Please, go on making stuff for older hardware.
Since I am a bit of a distro hopper, I try stuff here and there, and it's fun ! I am very much in favor of the DSL-N project, as it will make it more usable for me. I don't think the name has any relevance, and as of me, I don't care if it grows fatter than 70mb or 80mb... I will have it anyway on a regular cd-r and a 256 pendrive...
I am very happy to use both Puppy and DSL, and it is good that they are completely different, because that is the point of diversity.
On the same subject, I have been trying Dyne:Bolic 1.4.1 yesterday, and while the project leader, Jaromil, seems like a great guy, the live-cd had a couple of bugs (what I mean is that it doesn't work well on my hardware, no offense, Jaromil...)... However, I will follow the Dyne:2 project as I enjoyed his approach of things. He too makes stuff for older hardware...
While reading the COPE article, I realised that the internet and Open source movement is just too much freedom for the people, in the eyes of those who are ruling today's world. In Europe they had that DADVSI law, in the US they want COPE, in China you can't access Wikipedia nor IRC... In Cuba you just can't get online... It should be a good brainstorm for DW readers to think about a way to make the complete internet access independent from multinationals/government/dictature... Of course I have no clue about it...
Anyway, good read with my monday morning coffee, and I will follow the comments during the whole week (it is usually interesting and informative).
(FYI, I am writing these lines from Zenwalk 2.4)
15 • DWW back issues (by Jeremias Grym on 2006-05-08 11:52:05 GMT from Stockholm, Sweden)
It should be easier to browse through all old issues of DWW, not just the latest 50 or so. Sometimes it's useful or just entertaining to look back.
16 • Alternative for DSL / Puppy (by Marcel on 2006-05-08 12:01:58 GMT from Amsterdam, Netherlands)
Are you looking for a great alternative for DSL of Puppy? Not scared of larger ISO's that deliver a distro that runs great on old hardware? Try STX! Take a look at the website: http://stibs.cc/stx/
Give it a try. You will not be disappointed!
17 • Robert Storey (by Leo on 2006-05-08 12:06:33 GMT from Winston Salem, United States)
Hey Robert
Great read, but America is a Continent
Cheers!
Leo
18 • Websites on Google originating in America (by Steffen on 2006-05-08 13:33:50 GMT from Dublin, Ireland)
Although I take the point that a lot of internet content originate in America, I have to say that using Google as a proxy indicator for this gives a result that is quite far fetched from reality. The reason is that Google is specifically English language and American oriented. For example, surfing the net in Norway I would use a local engine rather than Google, as they would have much better phone number lookup, maps actually covering the country, news stories from local newspapers, and actually a lot more content. By some estimates, only 60% of Norwegian websites have been indexed by Google.
19 • WWW (by Oddball on 2006-05-08 13:43:51 GMT from Winchester, United Kingdom)
"Not everyone realizes that the USA invented the Internet."
Funny?! I thought it was down to Tim Berners-Lee?
Fairly safe to assume that inventions claimed by our transatlantic bretheren originated in the aulde countrie.
20 • DSL & Puppy (by william johnson on 2006-05-08 13:44:49 GMT from Wilmington, United States)
OK, i can understand if you live in one of the 95 countries
where the per capita income is (good god !!) less than
$5000 a year that you probably can't afford a decent computer
and need to use Puppy or DSL.
But anybody living in the USA that can't afford a 2ghz
computer as cheap as they are, needs to look at themselves
in the mirror and ask" why am i a failure"
Certainly if you are one of the 40% of wage earners WHO PAY
NO FEDERAL INCOME TAX,you should be able to scam up
$300 for a decent computer so you can run a 600 to 700mb
linux distro.
21 • 19 Tim Berners-Lee (by AC on 2006-05-08 13:47:04 GMT from , United States)
The Internet is not synonymous with the World Wide Wide. The web is just one small part of it.
22 • They won. (by crawancon on 2006-05-08 14:05:02 GMT from Clearwater, United States)
I, like many others, have given up.
I admit defeat.
The amount of B.S. the bush administration has saturated the mainstream media with is far too much for the common person to sift through and obtain intelligible data. The common worker class has no time to research, keep up, etc with what is really happening in america or around the world. They rely on what mainstream media tells them to rely on.
Their plan to keep americans ignorant has worked.
Their plan to keep the rich, richer and the poor, poorer has worked.
Their plan to allow terrorist attacks on american soil as to perpetuate the american economy into the 21st century has also worked.
Everyone is fooled; even if told, no one cares.
Their plan has been active for quite a while and its far too late for any of it to be undone.
They are in control.
The Internet is but of secondary importance to the sanity, reality, and quality of life for humanity. The bush administration has successfully negated all three.
All we can hope for is a poor class uprising of epic proportions that removes those currently in power. Big oil executives, politicians, and anyone else who uses every one of their stinking breaths to lie, cheat and screw over humanity will leave ugly skulls.
oh, and happy monday ladslav.
:-)
23 • The COPE Act (by Urcindalo on 2006-05-08 14:42:19 GMT from Almera, Spain)
Although I'm a Spaniard living in Spain, I don't see why all the panic about that Act among our "united-statian" friends.
What if it is impossible to reach service A from ISP B, or the other way around?
History teaches freedom will always find a way. In this case, there will always be a C provider who will be net neutral, for the mere reason that most people will want that.
In a truly free market, it is people who make a company make money. If my ISP would forbid my access to this page my room-mate recently told me about, then I would change my ISP to my room-mate's (or any other one). Nothing can prevent me from doing that. Don't forget all the ISP providers are fighting for your money. What's more, don't forget new ISPs will spring like mushrooms in such a scenario, because no law can prevent the establishment of new net-neutral companies.
The only ones losing here will be the limited-access ISPs. This Act, if approved, will be their coffin.
Finally, I'd like to express my admiration for the US as a nation. It is truly a great country, and living in old Europe I can assure you how much I envy your freedom. You can't imagine how lucky you are. I lived over there for two years and I'm looking forward to go back.
24 • 23 (by AC on 2006-05-08 15:02:15 GMT from , United States)
As an Estados-Unidosian, I thank you for your kind words and welcome your return. But please don't fail to appreciate all of the beauty your own country has to offer. Oh especially the architecture and the museums!
Unfortunately, many companies enjoy near monopoly status, particularly when it comes to broadband. And I wouldn't rule out collusion either. True free markets can be wonderful, but the reality of monopolies that the government helps create but which then want "de-regulation" is often less pleasant.
25 • 20 (by AC on 2006-05-08 15:17:37 GMT from , United States)
Don't be an ass. Some people don't like adding to landfills before its necessary, some people don't like needless power consumption, and yes, some people need to spend their money on food and medical care. For that matter, some people just like the challenge of getting old hardware that others have written off to work. If that's not your situation, there are lenty of more bloated/ful-featured distributions for you to choose from.
26 • No subject (by Michael M. on 2006-05-08 15:28:58 GMT from West Linn, United States)
While I agree that the threat to the overall concept of an agnostic network is real, I have to say that I'm disappointed in DistroWatch and Mr. Storey for publishing what has to be the phoniest and most alarmist take on this subject I've yet seen. And that is saying something, given the hyperbole that some (on all sides of the issue) have resorted to over the past few months.
Anyone who's been paying a little bit of attention knows that COPE would not permit the wholesale blocking of websites at the behest of competitors. The notion that "proprietary software companies [could pay] to block access to DistroWatch, or prevent you from downloading the latest Ubuntu or Fedora release" is ludicrous. Did Mr. Storey not follow the Congressional testimony regarding these issues? There is a very real concern on the part of lawmakers and policy makers that the Internet -- especially the WWW -- be allowed to function much as it has. Despite Mr. Storey's condescending and xenophobic attitude toward the U.S., people here aren't completely unaware of how much the Internet has done for our economy. No one is anxious to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. The real issue is how to encourage and promote the growth and development of new and existing services. Even the most ardent of net neutrality advocates recognize that in order to encourage the growth of bigger, faster, stronger networks, there has to be some potential upside to those companies that would make the necessary investment. If Mr. Storey is concerned that DistroWatch remain available to its U.S. audience, then one would think he would want to see those networks built and improved upon. Yet the path he argues we take is one that would almost guarantee that there would be no improvement to the existing networks Americans use to connect.
27 • ..stuff (by charleston on 2006-05-08 15:29:42 GMT from Horley, United Kingdom)
New name for DSL-N.
How about SSL - So Small Linux ?
Media stuff. As far as I understand deregulation of the US media in the 1990's allowed it to be taken over by the newspaper barons, who have always had a political agenda. And who then moved mainstream US media (radio, TV) as fast as possible over to the right - by things like choosing to air inflammatory stories, control over the questions asked, the slant of the story... all the way blatant bias e.g. 1 liberal vs. 3 rabid rednecks.
Of late there has been a flood of corporate & government fake news (http://www.prwatch.org/fakenews/execsummary) stories. How many US people know that much of the “news” they watch is propoganda in a 1930's sense? DoD generates and releases many thousands of “re-enacted virtual news reports” a year which get aired as plain news items. No bias, of course.
(see www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/04/06/1432239&mode=thread&tid=25 re corporation fake news and
www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/14/152202&mode=thread&tid=25 the DoD fake news story)
This is all because: with the collapse of the Soviet Union there is nothing to counterbalance the Right, who are just into a feeding frenzy. After all they are in power, they can do what they like and there is no-one to stop them :)
The final goal seems to attain a corporatist style of fascism, so to maximise profits ("Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini, 1933). All because... they can. But, is it cleaver, is it warranted?
Also see www.amconmag.com and the excellent and very worrying www.counterpunch.org
Back to Linux, it's less upsetting.
28 • Confused on Ubuntu 6.06 (by cheetahman on 2006-05-08 15:31:32 GMT from Washington, United States)
2006-05-08: Development Releases: Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu 6.06 Alpha 7
2006-04-27: Development Releases: Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Edubuntu 6.06 Beta 2
They have Beta 2 then Alpha 7
29 • RE: (by IMQ on 2006-05-08 15:41:38 GMT from Bogot, Colombia)
Me too!
They have Live Beta2 with Installer. And now the Alpha 7 with both regular installer and Live. Is the Live Alpha 7 is an improved version of "Beta2"?
It does create confusion for people who don't keep up with every inch of the the development process
30 • DSL - PCMCIA broken for older hardware (by Rob on 2006-05-08 15:58:40 GMT from Ottawa, Canada)
I liked DSL until they changed to a newer 2.4 series kernel (2.4.10 or higher) which broke PCMCIA on my old Toshiba Laptop. I had to move to another distro.
I don't think it is a DSL issue but a Kernel issue. But it would appear that the kernel developers do not want to fix it. They have moved on to teh 2.6 series kernel.
31 • Donation for Lua? (by dthacker on 2006-05-08 16:01:18 GMT from Omaha, United States)
DSL makes old computers sing again. Lua adds to the music. How about a donation for Lua? Dave
32 • DSL-N (by Marc on 2006-05-08 16:10:07 GMT from Beloeil Village, Canada)
Great DWW, thanks Lad and Robert ...
About DSL's new distro, i don,t like the name at all.
It sounds like a derivative of DSL but in fact it's a complete
new distro. I would have call it DLL for Damn Large Linux.
33 • Re:32 (by John on 2006-05-08 16:44:38 GMT from Emeryville, United States)
You would call <100MB large?
34 • Re:33 (by Marc on 2006-05-08 18:17:53 GMT from Beloeil Village, Canada)
Not that under 100 MB is large but compare to the other it much larger.
Maybe i should have said Damn Larger LInux !!!
35 • DSL (by Douglas on 2006-05-08 18:42:37 GMT from Oak Harbor, United States)
I don't know about everyone else but I like DSL not because it is small but because it is fast!! I like to run it out of my ram drive, super fast! A gig of ram is cheeper than a new computer. I am sure being small is a large part of why it is fast. I have and old system that only runs a 1.7 AMD chip but with DSL it runs faster than my friends brand new system most of the time!
If I had that shiny new system think how fast it would be running DSL!! Plus as stated, if you need other software it is very easy to install it.
Size does matter.
36 • 35 (by AC on 2006-05-08 19:41:01 GMT from , United States)
...and small is beautiful.
(quoting Michael Gancarz The UNIX Philosophy.
37 • Wrecking the Internet: Turning Gold into Lead (by Dreamcast on 2006-05-08 19:46:31 GMT from Phoenix, United States)
Distrowatch will survive. I currently spend more money on donations to free software projects than I ever spent to purchase software licenses. Should COPE Act ever become law then I will double my contributions to free software.
On a similar note, I take great pride in the fact that as a general rule I only view media with open source codecs. I have not missed a darn thing.
38 • Re:32 (by Akuna on 2006-05-08 20:02:46 GMT from Saint-Gilles, France)
Better yet: NSDSL= Not So Damn Small Linux!
39 • Debian was always committed to timely releases, but... (by Poncho Marx on 2006-05-08 20:08:35 GMT from , Canada)
Says Ladislav:
"but at least it seems that the Debian project leadership is more committed to a timely release than it used to be in the past."
Even back in 2001, Ben Collins, then Debian leader, wanted to make things move forward faster, but Debian has too much dead wood. There won't be another release in september. Don't bet an arm on it.
PM
40 • DSL (by Johannes Eva on 2006-05-08 20:15:48 GMT from Dreieich, Germany)
> Maybe i should have said Damn Larger LInux !!!
Great idea! It's a pity that humor isn't really present in the OSS world.
DSL is great.
Much greater for the average user that i am would be a fast and really complete distro. Something like ubuntu light or suse light. Or "fast suse", "fast ubuntu" maybe... it's awful that a linux box is so slow with 512 MB Ram.
41 • 39 (by AC on 2006-05-08 20:21:32 GMT from , United States)
The plan is for December, not September. Nevertheless, I wouldn't base any major deployment decisions or the like on anticipation of that plan.
42 • 40 (by AC on 2006-05-08 20:29:47 GMT from , United States)
SUSE and Ubuntu are pretty slow, but I find Debian quite spritely with only 256 MB.
Humor not present in the OSS world? Since when?
From the manpage for slay(1)
# ENVIRONMENT
SLAY_BUTTHEAD - setting SLAY_BUTTHEAD to on puts slay into Butt-head mode (which has different messages than normal mode). Setting it to off puts it into normal mode. This environment variable overrides the setting from /etc/slay_mode
# FILES
/etc/slay_mode - contains keywords describing the mode slay works in, separated by newlines:
mean turns mean mode on. In mean mode attempts to slay people without root priviledges are punished. This is the default.
nice turns mean mode off.
butthead switched slay to Butt-head messages mode.
normal switches slay to normal messages mode. This is the default.
You can only use one of mean/nice keywords and one of butthead/normal keywords.
43 • In favor of keeping DSL & Puppy as small as possible (by teobromina on 2006-05-08 20:39:00 GMT from Sabadell, Spain)
I understand the reasons of developing a bigger DSL distro (DSL-NOT), including more modern versions for kernel and apps.
But I am using DSL and Puppy as part of my personal 'tool', that incorporate both, DSL and Puppy, in the same multiboot ISO, and I need both to remain as small (but functional) as possible to fit together in a mini CD. If DSL or Puppy grow too much I will have to decide between them or find some else mini-Linux. It will be very difficult because the high performance of both. May be some other 'projects' have the same need of very small distros with GUI desktop.
So I am supporting a DSL inside the limit of 50 Mb and Puppy below 65 Mb.
About the name, some previous post has suggested DLL, that is very nice.
*JT.
44 • DLL (by AC on 2006-05-08 20:58:47 GMT from , United States)
er, it conjures up bad memories for those who have used certain "legacy" operating systems.
45 • The COPE Act (by tom on 2006-05-08 21:02:30 GMT from Helena, United States)
Ah, yeah.... that will be tough for the Gov to do because we can always make another internet around them.
46 • Ubuntu slow? Depends on your perspective... (by Nequeo on 2006-05-08 21:06:59 GMT from Sydney, Australia)
I guess 512MB RAM is the sweet-spot for current 'heavy' distros.
I've run Ubuntu side by side with DSL on an AMD64 3500+, a Pentium IV 2.4ghz and a Pentium-M 2.4ghz laptop.
All of those machines had 512MB of RAM, and I saw no significant speed-difference between DSL and Ubuntu 6.06 on any of those machines.
For Uni, I tried out Dapper on a laptop with Gnome, then with Fluxbox, and ended up sticking with Gnome. When that laptop went in for repairs, I remastered a DSL CD to include the Sun JDK and vim 6.3, and boot up the lab computers with it. The lab machines have 1GB ram. I am extremely satisfied with my DSL liveCD, but, subjectively at least, it honestly doesn't feel any faster than Ubuntu Dapper with Gnome running off a laptop with less memory.
I also freshly installed Windows XP on my desktop, as I need Access for one Uni course - and it is the one Office program that does not work with Wine. Interestingly, a clean install of Windows XP is much faster than Ubuntu. But I know from experience that in a year's time Ubuntu will still be running at the same speed (if not faster!), while Windows will be itching for a re-install.
47 • COPE (by Mojo on 2006-05-08 21:38:25 GMT from Conway, United States)
I think the Post by Michael M. might be from:
Mike McCurry
Co-chair, Hands Off the Internet coalition
www.HandsOff.org
If so, why didn't he just say it. He has also responded to other negative articles on COPE but at least you knew who he was.
48 • handsoff.org (by John on 2006-05-08 22:01:00 GMT from Emeryville, United States)
Those are some dirty, dirty hands that built that site -- typical big business propaganda.
From:
http://www.handsoff.org/hoti_docs/aboutus/principles.shtml
"Internet users should have total FREEDOM OF EQUIPMENT AND APPLICATIONS.
Consumers are permitted to access or connect to a variety of services, equipment, legal devices, and applications, so long as they don't harm the network or hamper the efforts of law enforcement officials."
49 • No subject (by Slartibartfass on 2006-05-08 22:01:03 GMT from Bingen Am Rhein, Germany)
The fact is that about 50% of the content on the Internet originates in America, even more if you're talking only about English-language content. Do a Google search on almost any topic - from "motorcycle repair" to "allergies" - and see how much of the hits are American-based web sites
thats a the fail off google not from the net they plan to index the whole net in about 2300 ac. asia is a differnt world in the web too.
and i dont think that china will go the american way so theres hope
cause the usa are not the world
50 • DSL is Fast? (by Paul on 2006-05-09 00:42:47 GMT from Saint Louis, United States)
beta2, alpha7... I just dl'd Xubuntu and it was just beta. If you've got a name like Xubuntu Dapper, what's a few liberties with the greek alphabet among friends?
Thanks for the interview with John and Robert. I use DSL everyday in Vmware Workstation. I do not experience the dramatic speed intoxications others claim. In fact, Suse 10, Kubuntu 5, and Nexenta all have crisper UI's under Vmware. Xvesa and Fluxbox can be odd at times. So can I.
I use DSL because it is tidy, launches quickly, and stays out of my way. It never nags or needs. And invisible is best. I don't need planets or penguins. I'm kinda busy.
Yes, you have to rework the fluxbox themes so you don't get laughed out of the office for wearing purple shorts. I do lots of Java development on IBM Regatta AIX boxes; and DSL runs Eclipse 3.1.2 like a champ (once you give it a few gifts). SSH, X and Vnc are all solid. It plays well with others -- not as great as Suse -- but doesn't wallow as a guest-os when the VM host gets loaded either.
It's the little details in a small distro that make them great. Like in DSL LinNeighborhood comes already config'd setuid so that mortals can mount Samba shares in $HOME/mnt with no kung foo... Ubuntu? Please, you might as well sudo -s if you expect to use LinNeighborhood without permission voodoo. Is that because they hate us, or just because it's so big there is too much to get "exactly right"?
There's lots to dis about DSL. Releases are frequent because the distro is not in the "user updatable" variety. But something is so likeable about it. It can get as big as it wants, but as soon as it outgrows the detailed attentions of John and Robert -- that's the ceiling.
51 • DSL vs. Puppy (by robert on 2006-05-09 00:49:07 GMT from Houston, United States)
Both distros provide good functionality. From my point of view this is a Apples vs. Oranges comparison. Yes they are both small distros. The differences are where you want to use them. I have two uses.
DSL
I have DSl installed on a USB thumb drive. When I go to a friends house and want to surf on his PC I boot off the DSL USB drive. I have my bookmarks and tools that I like already setup. I don't have to install anything on his PC. DSL is good at recognizing all his hardware. I hope in the long run, should I go to a library or some public location to use a PC, I plug the USB thumb drive into a USB port and I'm up and going.
Puppy
It is my short term and long term goals to Never Install An OS On A Hard Drive Again. DSL does not have Raid compiled into the Kernel nor can I use raid modules with DSL. Puppy does have raid functionality. I can run a simple server with Puppy. Puppy does have Samba available. Puppy is good for static setups. I have two PC's at home. Going through the hardware recoginition of DSL every time I boot my home PC's is annoying. Once Puppy is setup on a PC, the hardware is already recognized. Therefore it boots faster. I can run Puppy from a USB drive. My PC's are older and cannot boot USB. I boot using the CD and save info to 256 meg thumb drives.
A brief synopsis. Dynamic/DSL/Other places besides your home. Static/Puppy/ Setup once and forget about it.
Robert
52 • #13 (by JAG on 2006-05-09 00:53:47 GMT from Linden, United States)
Hey thanks Lobster...(for your announcement)
Our latest Puppy Alpha7 for Puppy2 has Inkscape built in + Mozilla, Abiword (with all the trimmings), Gnumeric, Gaim etc etc
Today the second Beta for PuppyCE (1.09) our community edition will be released and announced here:
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/LatestNews
Those are never listed in DW's following list...
Development and unannounced releases
* StartCom MultiMedia Linux 5.0.5-rc1, the release announcement
* Frenzy 1.0-beta1 the release notes
* DSL-N 0.1-rc1 the changelog
* FreeBSD 6.1-RC2, the release announcement
* dyne:bolic 2.0-rc, the release announcement
* RR64 Linux 3.0-rc1, the release announcement
* ADIOS Linux 5.0-beta, the release announcement
* SimplyMEPIS 6.0-beta2, the press release
* gnuLinEx 2006-rc1, the release announcement
* Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Xubuntu 6.06-alpha7, the release announcement
* Kaella 2.2-rc2
* R.I.P. 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2
Maybe you can talk to Ladislav...he probably has a specific E-mail address where you can send that info so as to show up on his lists.
53 • A couple of interesting links for all! (by JAG on 2006-05-09 01:08:25 GMT from Linden, United States)
Check out these benchmark tests guys/gals!
Linux versus Mac OS X and Windows XP on Intel Dual Core:
http://sekhon.berkeley.edu/macosx/intel.html
Browser speed comparisons:
http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#testresults
54 • #17#23#24 (by Geogeek on 2006-05-09 03:45:02 GMT from Los Angeles, United States)
#17; Leo,
You must be using a Spanish Dictionary. According to Dictionary.com "America; a republic on the continent of North America consisting of 50 states". You will find about the same thing in the vast majority of all English dictionaries. North America is a continent. South America is a continent. "The Americas" in English normally refers to North America, South America and all islands associated with North and South America. However, if you look up America in a Spanish dictionary you will find that the Spanish definition for America is about the same as the English definition for "the Americas". I don't know why these differences. I only know that it is a fact of life. So, when conversing Spanish I try to use the Spanish meanings and when conversing in English I try to use the English meanings.
#23 #24 If you are going to refer the citizens of the United States of America as United Statesians, then you should refer to citizens of the Federated Republic of Brazil as Federated Republicans, and citizens of the Kingdom of Spain as Kingdomites or Kingdomians or citizens of the Commonwealth of Australia as Commonwealthians. In this case most of the people of the world would simply be refered to as Republicans since most of the countries of the world are "Republics of ......". This is all only true if we are conversing in English. If you are speaking another language then this may not be true at all, but at the moment I think that we are atempting to communicate in English.
Gg
55 • Alpha-Beta-Alpha (by Ubuconfused on 2006-05-09 05:08:18 GMT from Los Angeles, United States)
Can someone please tell me what is going on with DapperDrake 6.06 Flight 6/Flight 7......
What is it with alpha 6, beta, beta 2, and now alpha 7?
Are these alpha and beta guys working in two different places? Are they talking to each other? Which Dapper Drake is what, and is the cart in front of the horse? Is Flight the same as Dapper Drake? Why do they have to make it so damn confusing. What's with DapperDrake (code name Flight 7)? Isn't Dapper Drake a code name? Why do we need 2 code names? Can someone just explain all this to an idiot like me?
Thanks,
Ubewildered
56 • 55 & 47 (by Michael M. on 2006-05-09 06:38:01 GMT from West Linn, United States)
55...I agree the code names get a bit much, but basically "DapperDrake" is the name of the eventual release, scheduled (I think) for June 1 or thereabouts. The whole "Flight" thing is just another way of indicating beta status. I don't know why they do it that way instead of RC1, etc., but basically just grab the most recent version if you want to try it out. If you prefer to use the current *stable* version, download BreezyBadger. But understand that in less than a month or so, Dapper will be the stable version.
47... I think it's funny that you think Mike McCurry would even know what Distrowatch is. The guy is too busy burning his bridges at Huffington Post to have a clue about operating systems. I've certainly no sympathy for his POV, and his screeds would be an example of the hyperbole I mentioned earlier. That doesn't change the fact that working out the future of Internet access requires a lot more nuance and balance than people like Storey and McCurry seem willing to acknowledge. (Well, in McCurry's case, he at least has the excuse that he's being paid to shill for one extreme; Storey has no such excuse, just plain ol' stupidity.)
57 • #56 #55 (by Ubuconfused on 2006-05-09 08:37:03 GMT from Los Angeles, United States)
Let me see. I think I've got it now. Dapper Drake is the code name for Ubuntu 6.06 and Flight 1-7 is the code name for Dapper Drake alpha 1-7, but then between alpha 6 and 7 there were beta 1 and 2, but they didn't have a Flight or Flight number associated with them (I guess that's why they didn't fly). Yes, it's all perfectly clear now. Don't know how I could have been so confused by something so simple and straight forward. But, then, I'm still I don't know if I should replace my beta 2 with an alpha, even though it is a 7.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world...
Those who understand binary, and those who don't!
58 • "United-statian" (by urcindalo on 2006-05-09 11:39:08 GMT from Almera, Spain)
#54. Don't be so picky. I put quotation marks around the word, so I knew what I was saying. I used that word precisely because I'm a Spaniard and, in Spanish, you are an "estadounidense". In Spanish, "americano" is anyone from "America", that is, the whole continent, from Alaska to "Tierra de Fuego" in Argentina.
Regarding why you refer to your own country as "America", maybe it has something to do with your country lacking a name?? You live in the "United States of America", i.e., a series of States (the highest independent political level) that decided to be united (thus having somethings in common), all of which are settled down in America (the continent). Did you know there were some attempts in the past to baptize the Union? Names like "Freedomia" (or something similar) were proposed, but none of them was finally chosen.
So, to me it is the lack of a name, combined with the need every person has of naming things, which finally lead everyone in the country-with-no-name to accept the name of the continent where they live as the "name" for their country. What's more, "the Americas" is an original Spanish expression (las Américas), meaning mainly two things (in Spanish): either the great extension of the continent (therefore the plural), or as an emphasis for the whole continent (and not only the part of it belonging to the Spanish-speaking contries).
59 • #58 (by Anonymous on 2006-05-09 13:01:26 GMT from So Paulo, Brazil)
" #54. Don't be so picky. I put quotation marks around the word, so I knew what I was saying. I used that word precisely because I'm a Spaniard and, in Spanish, you are an "estadounidense". In Spanish, "americano" is anyone from "America", that is, the whole continent, from Alaska to "Tierra de Fuego" in Argentina."
Mas para a potência imperialista, América do Sul e Central são apenas o seu quintal...
A escravidão como conhecíamos antes, com navios negreiros e etc, não existe mais, mas quando um país como o Brasil é comandado pelo FMI e pelos interesses do império, então não passamos de escravos "new-edition".
Por isso eles, os norte-americanos/estadunidenses se acham no direito de assassinar iraquianos e roubar seu óleo... Afinal, eles são os donos do mundo, não é mesmo?
:-)
60 • DSL & Puppy guys - headsup re Austrumi 1.2 (by Xfanboy on 2006-05-09 14:53:11 GMT from Horley, United Kingdom)
...DSL and Puppy people,
Just try Austrumi 1.2 !
I was shocked how professional, capable and smart this thing is.
This is coming to you from a beautiful Enlightenment desktop, with office apps, Firefox, editing tools for HTML, a CD burner, what else?
And top says - ram used is 39M. That includes the run-time image for this lot; the CD is out of itš tray !! No idea what else this support though; very worth a look.
Thje switch to go into English is a bit buried (lieft-click desktop, Favourite Apps, System, Languages) and there does pop up a bit of Latvian once in a while.
I can see Austrumi quicking becoming a standard. Very nice indeed.
61 • Internacional !!! (by Caraibes on 2006-05-09 16:26:50 GMT from Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic)
Mi gente,
Todos aqui sabemos que algunos de nosotros somos multilingue...
Es muy positivo, y hay que reconocer que nos da mas herramientas que los demas para navegar en la red, porque tenemos acceso a mucho mas informaciones...
Sin embargo, como Ustedes bien lo saben, aqui es un sitio en ingles, y por eso, es mejor escribir en este idioma...
...Pero, no estoy praticando lo que predico, solo porque comparto que somos todos Americanos, desde Argentina hasta Canada...
Sin embargo :
I love the american (us) culture and I feel at home with you guys, so please forgive me to write a bit in spanich... ;)"
62 • Promoting PUPPY -- Yah! (by David Park on 2006-05-09 17:44:12 GMT from Oakland, United States)
Austrumi's hardware support is very poor, and its applications seem to crash a lot.
It is good to see that all the Puppy fans are posting away in the comments, we all never miss an opportunity to promote our favorite distribution, compare these comments to how few were made by the DSL crowd a few month back when Barry was interviewed. Way to show team spirit! Our user base is smaller than DSL but we know how to get the word out! Keep this up and some day we will be the most popular Linux distribution ever!
63 • distros (by Zu on 2006-05-09 23:46:39 GMT from Polska, Poland)
I can see many ppl here are claiming a Linux distro to be as good as capable to run on an old hardware (except usb thumb, rather new toy). I can hardly understand it as hardware is really cheap these days. You can obtain e.g. used P4 with pretty amount of RAM even in my country.
What about ppl with newer 64-bit machines, not neccesarily top-edge ones? Is the only choice an overpacked "mumbo-jumbo" distro? I'd like my linux to be fast 64-bit, safe and reliable enough. I do also like the idea, to have small desktop distro equipped with basic applications. Closest to that idea seems to be *ubuntu family, however, it is for me hard to understand what for sake are there bundled "cows" like e.g. openoffice or gimp. Couldn't exist light versions of they or at least a choice during install whether I want them or not.
I don't intend to start any flame, just asking for advice.
64 • distros (by Xfanboy on 2006-05-10 00:09:27 GMT from Horley, United Kingdom)
...
try Kanotix 64 bit edition; they do a "lite" without OpenOffice; it's all KDE based (Kwrite etc)
Kanotix is an excellent liveCD. Create a persistent compressed home dir/file (the option to do this is under Kanotic button) and just boot from the current liveCD. When a new one comes out, just switch to that - no need to install, it just works.
65 • Project SOS -- Support Open Source (by ac on 2006-05-10 14:03:23 GMT from Szeged, Hungary)
For those who haven't heard of it yet, there's a new project that's supporting open source projects financially. Website:
http://www.seocompany.ca/project-support-open-source.html
They already donated money to KRename, that's where I found the link:
http://www.krename.net/
Ladislav, you might want to write about them next week...
66 • dsl, puppy, austrumi -- ELIVE (by ray carter on 2006-05-10 14:15:36 GMT from Tacoma, United States)
I've found a good lightweight solid distro to be Elive. It runs as a Live CD with an install to HD button. I've installed on several P166s with 64MB RAM - it runs quite well. Their implementation of Enlightenment is the best I've seen - highly recommended.
67 • LinuxOS.com (by Marc on 2006-05-10 15:50:40 GMT from Beloeil Village, Canada)
Why Distrowatch bothers to post any distro reviews from
LinuxOS.com. Their site is full of anti-Linux publicity !!!
Not that the review could be OK but how can we sure of that !!!
Geee !!!
68 • Re: Xfanboy (distros) (by Zu on 2006-05-10 17:16:17 GMT from Polska, Poland)
Thank's for your kind advice. I'll give it a try as soon as newer x64 Kanotix appears. The current one doesn't boot on my SATA DVD :(
To succeed with full Win>Lin transition I also need a driver for my x-fi. As for now there's no hope for that as industry-hollywood-redmond alliance wouldn't allow it. Perhaps something similar to the competition in enabling dual-boot on MacIntels would change the thing?
69 • SUSE 10.1 (by Jesper Sandström on 2006-05-10 21:21:31 GMT from Stockholm, Sweden)
For any potential readers, I'd like to announce that SUSE 10.1 final ISO images are avalible on the GWDG FTP server :) Start getting them before the humungous release hype tomorrow morning
70 • Elive and others... (by Caraibes on 2006-05-11 20:01:13 GMT from Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic)
Hi Ray Carter,
I also enjoyed Elive, as it is a fast, lightweight beautifull distro...
I am a firm believer in "Small is beautifull", whatever they might say ! No matter how inexpensive some folks think hardware is, I always give priority to recycling, or canibalizing parts to build a pc, and then run one of my favorite distros on it...
I have been using Puppy and DSL since about a year and a half... I always prefered Puppy so far, but I also enjoy DSL...
I tried Austrumi, since the last 2 releases, and also enjoyed it... I think the move to Enlightment is good...
Then I tried Elive and was really amazed ! I loved it big time ! But trouble is, just like Puppy and Dyne:Bolic 1.4.1, sound doesn´t work in my various pc´s using Via 82xxx integrated chipset. Note that it works great in DSL and Austrumi...
So far, I dual.boot Zenwalk 2.4 and winxp on my hard drive, and I run Puppy from my usb pendrive... DSL, Austrumi, Elive, Dyne:Bolic are being used as live-cd´s...
Thumbs up to all folks who have mad these distros possible !
71 • Wrecking the Internet: Turning Gold into Lead (by tom on 2006-05-11 22:59:32 GMT from Helena, United States)
This has been the response from Montana:
(This is a direct cut-and-paste)
Dear Mr. xxx:
Thank you for contacting me regarding the net neutrality issue. It is good to hear from you.
I completely agree that the Internet should remain an open and neutral medium to conduct commerce and gather information. I generally dislike Internet regulation, but I agree that the concern over large ISPs granting priority to one content provider over another has merit and should be monitored closely. Although it hasn't happened yet, the issue of large ISPs granting exclusive deals with content providers is a serious one and could have drastic effects on Montanans and Montana businesses.
As you know, there is a piece of legislation that has been introduced by Sen. Snowe and Sen. Dorgan that addresses the issue of net neutrality. While I fully support the spirit and intent of this bill, I do have some concerns with how it goes about ensuring the Internet remains a free an open forum. I feel that the FCC is in a much better position to protect consumers from abuses regarding the Internet than Congress and would like to see them monitor this situation to make sure large ISPs do not grant exclusive deals and harm consumer's interest. I also have concerns with a blanket 'equal priority' because there could be serious unintended consequences due to the increase in popularity of VoIP and related emergency communication over the Internet. There could be a day when we want to ensure emergency VoIP calls have priority over downloading music or video games.
Sen. Stevens has included language in the telecommunications overhaul of 2006 which will give the FCC the tools they need to closely monitor this issue and quickly act if any large ISPs attempt to make exclusive deals with content providers. I feel this is the best way to solve this potential problem without creating any unintended consequences. Rest assured, I am taking this matter very seriously and am working hard to ensure the Internet remains and open forum and remains an effective and useful tool for Montanans.
Thanks again for contacting me. Please do not hesitate to contact my office with any other questions or concerns that you may have. It is important to note that heightened security procedures due to the Anthrax and Ricin incidents have significantly delayed the processing and delivery of mail to my Washington , DC office. I encourage you to contact me via phone at (800) 344-1513, fax at (202) 224-8594, or through my website at http://burns.senate.gov . I apologize for any inconvenience caused by the delay in our mail process. I appreciate your patience as we continue to work through our increased security measures.
Sincerely,
Conrad Burns
United States Senator
72 • More on Oracle and GNU/Linux (by AC on 2006-05-12 08:09:49 GMT from , United States)
http://www.thestreet.com/_googlen/tech/software/10284958.html?cm_ven=GOOGLEN&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA
73 • On 15 May Puppy Linux 1.09 Community Edition will be released (by Lobster on 2006-05-12 15:24:40 GMT from Rochdale, United Kingdom)
More details
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy109
Puppy now has Inkscape and GParted built in the latest Puppy 2 Alpha7
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy2
Two programs are the first to be awarded Puppy approved coding status
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?p=49255#49255
Mark Tyler for Mtpaint
Joe for JWM (Joes Window Manager)
74 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-05-12 19:47:19 GMT from Buenos Aires, Argentina)
You Puppy folks sure know how to hijack a topic.
75 • -what do you mean ??? (by Caraibes on 2006-05-12 23:34:57 GMT from Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic)
there is no hijack, since there´s no topic... This is just a place to comment, and Puppy was mentioned in DWW.
Come on, I think it is a good place to talk about all these Linux things...
And Puppy is part of the Linux stuff, so we can write about it...
76 • NO HOPE FOR NOVELL (by Mr. Pink on 2006-05-13 00:45:53 GMT from Redmond, United States)
I just tried to install SUSE 10.1 and couldn't. I used their netinstall iso which is only 35MB. So for netinstall this CD is surprisingly lacking in identifying NICs.
0000:01:02.0 Ethernet controller: 3Com Corporation 3c905C-TX/TX-M [Tornado] (rev 78)
Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company: Unknown device 1247
Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 3
I/O ports at bc00 [size=128]
Memory at efdfff80 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=128]
Expansion ROM at e7b00000 [disabled] [size=128K]
Capabilities: [dc] Power Management version 2
Debian, Slax, Ubuntu, Gentoo, Knoppix and many other install and/or Live CDs properly identify and configure this card without problems. Not SUSE.
I even tried with USB network adapter. Same result.
I see many articles how Novell aims to position itself to directly compete with MS. Well ... Good luck.
77 • just thnking aloud (by mikkh on 2006-05-13 05:02:07 GMT from Winchester, United Kingdom)
I see QiLinux has another release, and because it doesn't even appear on the top 100 chart, a lot of people won't even bother with it.
Just like a lot of people never bothered with Conectiva, before it got swallowed alive by Mandriva - one of the best distros I've tried IMO (Conectiva, not Mandriva)
So here we have a very nice newbie friendly distro, complete with 3D graphics and running very nicely. Fellow distroholics probably notice, like I do, the lack of effort by a lot of distros in trying to add to the bog standard menu layout - I often think, yeah it's OK, but it's just default KDE or Gnome/Whatever
QiLinux has a custom entry for installing flash/java/win32codecs etc - a lot of distros could learn from that
It gets better with each release, but is destined to become another Conectiva I fear - which is a shame. because I like it a lot, and think it deserves a lot more coverage
78 • RE: 77 • just thnking aloud (by ladislav on 2006-05-13 05:24:30 GMT from Taipei, Taiwan)
If you enjoy QiLinux so much, why not write a full review? That, I think, is the best way to increase its awareness and to spread the word about it. You can publish it on a blog or submit it to DistroWatch (or OSNews, NewsForge, etc) for publication.
79 • re 78 (by mikkh on 2006-05-13 13:22:28 GMT from Winchester, United Kingdom)
OK I will. I was really, as the title said, just thinking aloud and remembering a comment I once saw posted here, about how someone never looked beyond the top 20 for new distros to try.
I think that's a very blinkered outlook, as my own top 5 distros mostly feature well down the list - or as in QiLinux's case, don't even make it to the top 100
80 • DyneII (by Caraibes on 2006-05-13 14:34:24 GMT from Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic)
I just upgraded from Dyne 1.4.1 to DyneII, and wish to state that either sound and network are working well...
It is a fun distro, rather different, but this is what I enjoy, because if I wanted mainstream, then I would stick to mainstream...
my 2 cents... writing from DyneII...
81 • Re 77: DistroWatch -> UbuntuWatch? (by rglk on 2006-05-13 18:31:46 GMT from Edgewater, United States)
I've also noted an increasing trend of the news in DW becoming dominated, both in the weekly issue and in the comments, by a handful of celebrity distros that make a lot of noise but are almost indistinguishable in their offerings. If this trend continues I can foresee the day when DW should more appropriately be called UbuntuWatch or USFMWatch. Is there anything that stands out from the homogenous mix of features that Ubuntu, SuSE, Fedora, Mandriva, Mepis, PCLinuxOS offer? It seems to me, if you've run one of them, you've run them all.
In particular, I think the readers' time is wasted with news that celebrity distro X has been incremented from v.6.3 alpha rc3 to v.6.3 alpha rc4 which was released just a week earlier. It seems to me that much of the real innovation in the Linux Desktop is happening in the lesser known distros, and with the increasing focus of DW on inconsequential news from the celebrity distros, a lot of this interesting news is falling through the cracks.
I could think of a dozen excellent smaller distros that in the past few months have come out with interesting or exciting features, and there hasn't been a peep about it in DW. Even if there is a comment or two on such a thing, it simply gets drowned in all the gossip about Ubuntu, Mandriva, SuSE et al. which generally is primed by Ladislav's choice of topics in the weekly DW issue.
If you're tired of the McDonald's fare about the usual suspects, check out the live CD's of Phaeronix, Wolvix, Austrumi, Pingwinek, Troppix, Klax, Myah, Hedinux, MCNLive, Belenix, Stux, STX, Dyne:bolic, CentOS, Mutagenix, and, among the security distros, Backtrack, NST, Helix, Pentoo. None of these distros is among the Top 40 on the DW hit list, which simply means any news about them has fallen through the cracks, and yet, they have more to offer than many of the Top 10 distros.
One exception I can think of in recent DW issues to the rule that truly excellent innovation frequently gets overlooked in the drone of chatter about the bland heavy hitters is Zenwalk. That distro deserves to be among the top ten. Of late, Zenwalk has received some attention in this forum, so consistently in fact that I finally went ahead and installed it, only to recognize what a fine and fun to use distro it is. Perhaps Austrumi is another exception, getting a bit of deserved recognition lately, amidst all the noise about DSL and Puppy.
Speaking of slackware, the entire clan of Slax and its descendents deserves more attention. Slax in its own way (e.g. with its downloadable compressed modules which can customize and extend the base OS on the live CD) is as innovative as Knoppix has been, and some of its descendents have carried the improvements even farther. I'd rather hear about that than get debates about the respective merits of the business models of Novell vs. Mandriva vs. Ubuntu or the trials and tribulations of top executives of these well-heeled corporations/foundations. Let's have some fair and balanced coverage.
Robert
82 • RE: 81 • UbuntuWatch? (by ladislav on 2006-05-13 22:53:38 GMT from Taipei, Taiwan)
Again, I can only reply the same as in post 77: if you enjoy a lesser known distribution, it's in YOUR power to spread the word. Write a review, submit a story to Linux news sites, mention it in Linux forums around the Web. If you are just going to sit and wait for somebody else to discover your favourite distribution, then don't complain that it doesn't get enough coverage! There are more than 500 of them, so it's unreasonable to expect that every small distro gets the same attention as the big ones.
On the news page, all distributions -- big and small, commercial or community -- are treated as equal and small releases are announced in the same manner as the big ones (show me another Linux news site that does the same!). But in DistroWatch Weekly, the focus is on the main distribution, simply because there is not enough news, reviews and reports about most of the small ones).
83 • re:81 (by x on 2006-05-14 00:01:05 GMT from Burlington, United States)
I have been following Distrowatch since very near the beginning. The announcements never were the main attraction for me, as I have always regarded them as mostly noise. I believe that in order to appear in that list, the distributions website must make an announcement, which is where the noise eminates.
The most important information offered at Distrowatch is contained in the individual distribution's page. At one time it was very difficult to compare distributions offerings. The addition of the BSD's are a major enhancement(my opinion). The distribution's summary and package information help in choosing the right distribution for a given individual's situation. Basing decisions on the most popular distribution will not always provide a user with a good experience.
The addition of the Weekly now provides us with an opportunity to get more in depth information about various distributions. If someone wishes to tell us about the merits or negatives about a particular distribution, there is now a method for them to relay that information to more than just the followers of a particular distribution. Write a review and submit it to any one of the previously mentioned entities. Personally, I would like to see more reviews on Distrowatch. Not just the installation and initial experience, but what is it like to install and use a particular distribution for six months. I realize that many dristributions change more frequently than that, but most changes are minor.
I have no complaints about Distrowatch, it has and continues to evolve in a positive way.
84 • Re #81-83 (by rglk on 2006-05-14 03:03:42 GMT from Edgewater, United States)
I think a less than healthy positive feedback loop may be at work in DW: the "big" or popular distros make a lot of noise, DW then goes for this news because it's easy to get, and it winds up in the weekly report which is probably the most widely read section of DW. Everybody then jumps on the bandwagon in the Comments section and only talks about U&S&F&M&M which further constrains the interest to this narrowly focussed field which increases their H.P.D.'s which then may entice Ladislav to opt for more news about them, and so the loop is closed.
E.g. DSL is a sample case of a distro that probably only reached their current position on the hit list because they started releasing micro-incremented versions every two weeks which constantly keeps them present in the "latest news and updates" section. Many other equally or more meritorious distros don't engage in such nonsense, hence they don't show up in this section as often, hence less interest is stimulated in them, hence they slip on the DW hit list and ultimate spiral into DW oblivion.
I don't understand why Ladislav goes for this posturing, does he just want to fill space? A case in point: after I posted my comment #81 a few hours ago, SimplyMEPIS 6.0 beta 3 showed up on the "latest news and updates". Read the announcement: it's about some esoteric infinitesimal tinkering leading from beta 2 (or was it beta 2.9?) to beta 3. I don't think that's newsworthy, to me that's just fill.
This kind of dynamic leads to the adsurd situation of the top 5 distros commanding roughly 10-27 times as much interest as excellent distros such as Wolvix, Yoper, dyne:bolic, STX, GoblinX, Austrumi, etc., with ratings of around 100 H.P.D., judging from the H.P.D statistics for the past 6 months. Playing this numbers game is perhaps meaningless but it does vaguely quantify the trend.
The lesser known distros I mentioned favorably in my post #81 are not my "favorite" distros, they simply are distros that stand out in one way or another, and I believe most discerning distroholics would agree on that. Yet they get lost in the noise about the top 10 or 20 distros to which in fact they may be superior. Isn't it the job of someone who watches distros for a living to watch for outstanding merit and report it to the multitudes rather than going for easily obtainable celebrity distro news?
If Ladislav were to premier a section of news on real stand-outs from the less well trodden byways of the Linux distro world and also throttle the noise from all the distros, big and small, that scream to be noticed with their miniscule incremental releases, I'd be content. Such actions would have more impact than my posting comments here which most of the time I expect to be wasted because of the forum's preoccupation with distro pop idols. E.g. I'd be surprised if comment #77 about QiLinux sees any follow-up, and that distro may well have outstanding merit.
Robert
85 • re:84 (by x on 2006-05-14 04:10:42 GMT from Burlington, United States)
Well, I do not believe Ladislav falls for anything(well almost anything). I personally do not try something because it is popular. Example: McDonalds are the most popular, most advertised and most profitable restaurants in the world. I do not consider anything they produce to be edible, but billions disagree with me.
Some distributions have zealot-like followings, we have to live with it. Remember the excitement when you first successfully installed and used a non-MS operating system? How did it feel? Did you have a desire to convince others to try it?
As to QiLinux, there have been several announcements recently. No one has reviewed it. Maybe you could devote some time and enlighten us. Promote the distributions you feel are better than the popular ones by telling the rest of us about their virtues.
86 • http://distrowatch.com/ (by ladislav on 2006-05-14 04:40:15 GMT from Taipei, Taiwan)
If Ladislav were to premier a section of news on real stand-outs from the less well trodden byways of the Linux distro world... I'd be content.
I can't do that. One country's terrorist organisation might be another country's freedom fighting group. Similarly, one person's "real stand-out" may be another person's complete piece of rubbish!
I didn't create DistroWatch to make everybody content. I created it to inform interested readers about distribution releases - good or bad, big or small, development or final. The fact that you know about Wolvix, GoblinX or AUSTRUMI is a proof that the site is fulfilling its purpose - chances are that without DistroWatch, you would not have heard of most of the 500 distributions listed here.
Oh and before I forget, just a reminder that I still haven't received your review of one of the "real stand-outs" for inclusion in the next issue of DistroWatch Weekly. You know my email address, don't you?
87 • Austrumi & Elive (by teobromina on 2006-05-14 06:27:51 GMT from Sabadell, Spain)
#60 Xfanboy
#66 ray carter
#70 Caraibes
spoke about Austrumi & Elive.
Both distros have in common Enlightement, (a very nice and fast desktop manager), though that differ absolutely in size: Austrumi=50Mb and Elive=700Mb. Both worth the wile to try them. They are fast and comprehensive for a newbee, because the selected desktop, because the modern (or last) versions of the programmes they have.
I like DSL and Puppy, but I am discovering and trying to know better on Austrumi and Elive amongh the live Linux...
*JT.
88 • Re: #85 & 86 (by rglk on 2006-05-14 06:44:07 GMT from Edgewater, United States)
x wrote:
"As to QiLinux, there have been several announcements recently. No one has reviewed it. Maybe you could devote some time and enlighten us. Promote the distributions you feel are better than the popular ones by telling the rest of us about their virtues."
I don't know anything about QiLinux. I just took it as an example because mikkh (comment #77) spoke about it in a very laudatory way, and I'm willing to give his judgment some credence. I've posted comments and micro- or mini-reviews of lesser known distros here before, with zero or little response in recent times. It's like talking into the wind; everything gets drowned out by talk about the big five.
It didn't used to be that way in DW. There used to be a real appreciation and knowledge here about the diversity of Linux distros and a willingness to explore. Ever since the arrival of the Ubuntu juggernaut and excessive coverage of it and the resulting arousal of partisans of the other half dozen biggest distros the talk here seems to revolve around nothing but that small subset of Linux distros.
It would be instructive to go through the last few issues of DW and count how many posts were concerned with distros that are not in the top 10 or 20 on the hit list and also how many responses they triggered. I'm pretty confident that that would show that coverage of anything but pop distros has become somewhat marginal in DW. Of course, much of what I'm talking about applies to the Comments section over which Ladislav has no direct control but he does control "DW Weekly" which sets the agenda for Comments to a great degree.
As things stand, I find that I read less than half of DW Weekly, less than half of the Comments and considerably less than half of the Latest News and Updates, especially when there is hardly anything new about any given update. A year ago, I used to read 100% of all of these sections. Most importantly, I'm not walking away anymore with any real "finds" from DW Weekly or Comments.
As Ladislav observed correctly, perhaps DW is fulfilling its function for me in providing links to what's new among the distros - and he's doing a fantastic job with collecting that information - but I then go to the websites myself, often way before DW actually covers the new items (e.g. items newly added to the waiting list), and check them out. If I make a real discovery (e.g. some distro with exceptionally well implemented features), more often than not that's not recognized in DW Weekly & Comments, even if I post an alert - no response.
Ladislav, I may take you up on your invitation for reviews of stand-out lesser known distros in DW Weekly!
Robert
89 • For Ladislav--- (by Caraibes on 2006-05-14 10:53:34 GMT from Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic)
Hey Mate,
You are doing an outstanding job !!!
Of course, one can always comment on some aspect of your website, or suggest something, and that is healthy.
But bottom line is Distrowatch is the leader in the WWW when it comes to Linux news...
As of me, I would never have heard about most small distros if it wasn't for my browsing of Distrowatch...
And the regulars of the DWW comments have noticed that in most of my posts, I write about these small distros that I knew here, such as Zenwalk, Puppy, GenieOS, Dyne:Bolic, Elive, Austrumi... (I don't know if PCLinuxOS qualify as a small distro...).
However, I do enjoy playing with major league distros, and I will be among the crowd downloading and installing the new Ubuntu the day it comes out...
Same thing for Slackware, the day version 11 shows up, I'll download and install...
That is because IMO Ubuntu and Slackware are worth it...
On the other hand, I don't even bother with Suse 10.1, too many cd's, too similar, just like I shouldn't have bothered with FC5, which was a waste of bandwith and a waste of blank cd's (purely personal opinion, no offense !)...
I don't even bother reading anything about Mandriva anymore neither...
I am concluing with the same "Small is beautifull" as before...
And, yes, it is fundamental to fight that "upgrade your hardware" propaganda, and let the word out that your 6 or 7 years old PC can still do an efficient job when running some Linux Distros !!!
-When is it that I'll walk in the local supermarket, where they sell "PC Mag", and the cover will be something like : "don't be fooled by the trend ! get a garage-sale PC for a cheap price and run Puppy on it !!!" ????
Anyway, lots of friendship to you all !
90 • Complaints about Distrowatch (by x on 2006-05-14 16:10:30 GMT from Burlington, United States)
No matter how close to perfection someone or something is, someone else will complain about some aspect. It is human nature to find fault and complain. Using this constructively is the key to development.
As to the 'Watchers' responding to the comments of others. Most people will very rarely respond, if at all. At the time of this post there are 89 comments, by an estimated 60 readers. I seriously doubt that 60 represents even 1% of the readers of Distrowatch. Some people are likely to post comments when they disagree with an article or other comment. A few offer additional information, but most comments have nothing to do with any of the articles.
91 • Hey Ladislav... (by JAG on 2006-05-14 16:23:20 GMT from Linden, United States)
Don't sweat it...Just keep going forward!
I've been thinking...(yeah sometimes it happens)...
maybe (a suggestion of course)...you or one of us can come up with something/someway to increase exposure of lesser known distros to help them a little...
How about also scrolling accross the top of the page somewhere the Page Hit Ranking (either vertically or horizontally) thereby at least allowing people ;who browse through without scrolling down, to notice these other distros...???
92 • A thought...(ow!...it hurts!) (by JAG on 2006-05-14 21:09:08 GMT from Linden, United States)
Or maybe...you could invert the Page Hit Ranking (100-1)...causing the curious of the top distros (as per HPD) to have to scroll through the list...increasing exposure of the little guys (other distros)...
Number of Comments: 92
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