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1 • No subject (by deeLer on 2005-07-04 11:32:28 GMT from Belgium)
just to say that the new debian 3.1 rules , and to be the first with a comment line
2 • SUSE 9.3 (by Mark W. Tomlinson on 2005-07-04 11:53:43 GMT from United States)
I did an FTP install of SUSE 9.3 on my desktop system yesterday. Haven't had much chance to work with it yet, but the installation was definitely smoother than my previous SUSE experiences.
Now, to see how my laptop likes it...
3 • Debian Security is BEST (by Ritz on 2005-07-04 12:02:20 GMT from India)
The reason Debian is getting all this bad publicity is because it is OPEN. There are a number of loopholes in all other distributions like Fedora, Enterprise Redhat, Suse and all other...only thing they dont get noticed as they are not fully open to public.
Its only a matter of time...some days before Debian solves this problem. Debian is always the most secure distro by any measure.
4 • SUSE 9.3 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-04 12:04:55 GMT from Italy)
I have downloaded the DVD iso 3 times, but the md5sum never matches the one given by SUSE. However the md5sum is always the same, I burnt it to DVD, checked with YaST and no errors were found.
Not being a SUSE user myself any longer, a single layer DVD iso makes it a lot easier giving it to friends.
5 • Mandriva 2006 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-04 12:07:24 GMT from Italy)
The first snapshot or beta of Mandriva 2006 seems to be late and nobody seems to know anything.
6 • Re: Debian Security is BEST (by Anonymous on 2005-07-04 12:21:56 GMT from Germany)
> Its only a matter of time...some days before Debian solves this problem.
In Debian timescale these "days" can easily become months or years.
7 • Re: Debian Security is BEST (by Jamster on 2005-07-04 12:30:18 GMT from United Kingdom)
> Debian is always the most secure distro by any measure.
And what do you base this argument on?
How is Debian more secure than, say, Gentoo for example? Or Slackware? Or Mepis? Or.. How are most other distributions not as open when it comes to possible security apps in holes?
appname -version, check with recent advisories, check with recent app updates done by the distribution.
Doesn't seem very obscure to me in any way.
And 'always' is kind of a contradiction considering the recend security troubles in Debian Sarge, isn't it?
Jamster, Debian user.
8 • Gentoo and security (by Paul on 2005-07-04 12:30:59 GMT from Denmark)
It is my experience that Gentoo is a very safe distribution because you (the administrator) have complete hands-on knowledge of the system (this is othen referred to as a burden by non-gentooists) and by the fact that the Gentoo Securtity Team works quite fast.
However I am still sad to see that Debian has problems. I would have liked if Debian once again gained momentum and became number one in precompiled distros.
9 • Suse93 (by G Rajesh on 2005-07-04 12:40:45 GMT from India)
Even I find the installation smoother than earlier versions. OpenOffice 2.0 is a bonus to us. Only thing I miss in Suse is support to input in indic languages especially Tamil (ta_IN), while mandriva & fedora have done this. However, the ease of use (YaST) and desktop features compensates the above. Suse should also impove their system upgrade - it takes long time and is not as smooth as fedora, mandriva or ubutnu. Am I right? Or else anyone has found this smoother? Providing updates through DeltaRPMs (now to be used by mandriva) is also an excellent feature.
10 • Fedora and security (by Rahul on 2005-07-04 12:41:26 GMT from India)
"The reason Debian is getting all this bad publicity is because it is OPEN. There are a number of loopholes in all other distributions like Fedora, Enterprise Redhat, Suse and all other...only thing they dont get noticed as they are not fully open to public."
Oh come on. Fedora security status is completely open
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/securitystatus
11 • My $0.02 (by Benjamin Woods on 2005-07-04 12:44:33 GMT from Australia)
Isn't the purpose of debian to provide a secure and stable operating system... often at the expense of newer software?
My opinion: although there was A LOT of testing and waiting for 3.1... they obviously didnt test the EXACT final product enough! i think everyone would agree 1 more week of testing couldn't have been bad... although... u could say that forever.
a difficult situation...
in the end, debian is NOT meant for a newbie... so any capable administrator will be able to fix this problem when the fix is released.
meanwhile... debian is still cool
12 • More issues with Debian (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-04 12:45:11 GMT from Italy)
1)The new implementation of apt in Sid has left many people, including myself, scratching their heads: all of a sudden you couldn't install anything from, say, marillat.free: apt was complaing about missing gpg keys. Fortunately I use Kanotix and Kano is always there to help, in no time.
2)Sid is a lot buggier than usual, and plenty of bugs are being imported to testing as well: it would seem that, after the release of Sarge, quality checks have been relaxed quite a bit.
3)I tried one of the very first Etch installers, dated 30th of June: well, what a mess. For instance the only supported filesystem was ext2! An install was impossible, anyway.
Should we all use Sarge for quite a while, at least until things go back to normal?
13 • Debian 3.1r0a, SuSE 9.3 and Ubuntu 5.04 (by hobbitland on 2005-07-04 12:47:12 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hello, I juts tried Debianpure which seems to have the same installer as Debian 3.1r0a. Seems hard to get XFREE working properly with my card.
I tried the SuSE 9.3 five ISO download. YaST is really really slow and
it needs to reboot half way during installation. Also package selection
is a bit difficult as YaST reselects package I de-selected. What pain. Anyway, despite havign five CDs it cannot handle basic MP3 msuic or MPEG1 videos. Also no "g77" on these CDs.
Then I tried Ubuntu-5.04 install version. The installer looks just like the Debian 3.1r0a installer and it installs a base system with Gnome 2.10. It works but it had no gcc. I now think Ubuntu is better than Debian 3.1r0a as you only need one CD to get a working Gnome environment.
14 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2005-07-04 12:56:28 GMT from Finland)
Agree. Ubuntu has been surprisingly smooth to install.
And upgrading and installing more tools later was a pleasure, too
15 • SUSE 9.3 (by Mike on 2005-07-04 13:06:15 GMT from United States)
I for one am not happy with Suse 9.3, not because it's not any good (it probably is) but because I can't get it to install. Ever since 9.1 I haven't been able to install Suse. It has to be how it detects your hardware because I can still install 9.1 but 9.2 and 9.3 fail everytime. Also the support from Novell has been less than acceptable. They offer install support but if you can't get it installed how can you e-mail them for support? I guess they expect you to do that from work and then try and work it out at home. I for one won't buy another one from SUSE. At least now one can try it after it's been out to see if it will at least install before handing over your money and then being saddled with a boat anchor. If Novell is serious about supporting their product they had better get on the phone or Suse will just go away as more people stop buying their product.
Mike
16 • Errr come on please! (by Michael on 2005-07-04 13:19:38 GMT from South Africa)
I tried the SuSE 9.3 five ISO download. YaST is really really slow and
it needs to reboot half way during installation. Also package selection
is a bit difficult as YaST reselects package I de-selected. What pain. Anyway, despite havign five CDs it cannot handle basic MP3 msuic or MPEG1 videos. Also no "g77" on these CDs.
Maybe if you actually ran the online update you would have seen the multimedia packs which you can download to play your multimedia.
And you also had a choice of installing the development tools. Maybe you should look at what you're doing before you want to post crap.
Cheers.
17 • RE: SUSE 9.3 (by Mike ) (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-04 13:23:44 GMT from Italy)
Personally I didn't stop using SUSE because of any issue as serious as not being able to install, but because having dual booted for years between Debian or a derivative (Kanotix or Libranet are the only ones I am willing to use) and SUSE, the latter couldn't stand a comparison with Debian.
SUSE is buggy, slow, bloated, and I liked their defaults less and less.
Debian on the other hand is flexible, you can do what you want with it and it will always bend to your will, which SUSE refuses to do.
On top of that Debian is stable, and if there are any bugs just use apt-listbugs and you are in total control.
With other words, SUSE is more suited for novices, Debian is more suited for the more advanced user.
18 • Suse 9.3 (by Eric on 2005-07-04 13:33:23 GMT from Canada)
I think Suse always gives public users very hard time in term of a free and open product. You guys can also see how hard it is to find a fast and good mirror and how long we have to wait to get the “Personal Edition”. IMHO, it's just not good enough to be a commercial product, especially we can get an even better distros like Ubuntu, PCLinuxOS, Fedora or Gentoo for FREE.
For Debian Linux, although it's “rough”as a distro, and maybe it's not good enough for everyone, but it's perfect as it is now LOL. Because it is and will always be the base to produce for other distros like Knoppix, Ubuntu, Mepis...
I just love to see how Linux distros develop and always have high expectation for them, because open source OSes are just as beautiful as art! Try them and love them... Goodbye Windows!
19 • suse 9.3 upgrade (by nitroushhh on 2005-07-04 13:45:56 GMT from Netherlands)
I thought I'd relate my experiences of upgrading from 9.2 instead of a clean install of 9.3
With windows i'd never select upgrade as i always regretted it so I'd put off trying an upgrade of suse for quite some time.
Generally speaking I was very impressed.
I always go for 'install everything' so my 9.2 had a great deal of software installed. I booted and selected upgrade and it chugged away for several hours. I had to solve a couple of dependancies to solve, mainly because I'd installed some non-suse packages. Was quite simple and then i left it to it.
When it had finished I was very impressed that the machine, at first glance, simply looked and worked exactly like my 9.2 did. Just with a nicer 3.4 kde desktop. All the packages upgraded and seemed to all be working fine. And lots of new stuff to play with. Heres a quick list of some of the things that made my latest install ready to go from the first moment.....
Internet connection setup perfectly with no questions.
Mail and news programs had all my existing data there and all connections worked.
Firefox had all my bookmarks, settings, and full cache intact.
Apache, mysql and php ran my local web applications with no setup.
Network connection profiles still there and working.
And of course my home directory was all there.
Apart from multimedia my machine was setup just like my 9.2 install had been. And media didn't take long to fix.
The desktop looks great and seems faster than 9.2 to me. And with many services and applications running it seems to use up less ram than 9.2
Although its easy it fix the multimedia side of things, I think it will annoy people who don't immediately find out how to fix it.
I like the RSS feed handler in Kontact. I'd not used RSS before and was surprised how much of my surfing was for news. You get an icon in task bar that tells you how much news you've not read. I've become a bit of a slave to it.
I've been doing real work on suse now for 3 years, i wouldn't swap it.
20 • No subject (by Fedora and Security on 2005-07-04 14:08:11 GMT from India)
Fedora...and OPEN??? ha ha ha
21 • Debian issues? (by Tsela on 2005-07-04 14:15:07 GMT from Netherlands)
Hi everyone,
although I can understand that for a server the absence of security updates for so long is really a blooper, and a bad one considering how long they took to make a release, for everything else Debian GNU/Linux rocks!
After patiently waiting for Sarge to be ready, I finally made the jump and installed it on my computer last weekend (for desktop use). It was my very first Linux install (never done it before), and I am not that knowledgeable about GNU/Linux (I am something of a power user, managing to maintain a Windows ME box for 4 years without ever having to reinstall ;) ), and yet it was a breeze! (after I managed to get a non-corrupted CD for the install - as it happens, it was the CD itself I burnt the image on which was wrong :( -).
And as for maintaining Debian after install, I don't know what people are talking about. Getting my ADSL connection to work was the biggest problem (what's with the Dutch KPN and its use of PPTP?), but I got it to work within an hour. The rest was just a question of installing the right packages (including getting my printer/scanner to work :) ). GNOME is extremely fast, and Synaptic works without a problem (Anonymous Penguin: I get the security messages too, but they are only warnings. I still can install. And I'm using unstable...).
After only a few hours of work, I've managed to get an OS with more capabilities than I ever managed to put in Windows in the last four years. And the eye candy looks better ;) . And it's rock-solid.
Debian, you've got a happy user here (I installed in dual-boot, but I haven't used the Windows partition since this weekend, except for things like checking my configuration of Thunderbird to replicate it here ;) ).
22 • No subject (by Eric on 2005-07-04 14:24:19 GMT from Canada)
Fedora...and NOT OPEN??? ha ha ha
"The Fedora Project is an OPEN SOURCE project sponsored by Red Hat and supported by the Fedora community. It is also a proving ground for new technology that may eventually make its way into Red Hat products. It is not a supported product of Red Hat, Inc."
23 • Suse and Fedora (by AQ on 2005-07-04 14:28:52 GMT from United States)
I think the suse anouncement last week was incorrect.
It was reported that the DVD ISO was 4.6 GB (roughly), however, the eval DVD on every server I've checked is 2.3 GB.
Anyone know anything about that? Am I not looking at the "pro" DVD?
I am certainly disappointed about the Fedora anouncement as I really like a six month cycle. Hopefully that extra time will be put to good use.
24 • RE: Debian issues? (by Tsela) (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-04 14:38:11 GMT from Italy)
"It was my very first Linux install (never done it before), and I am not that knowledgeable about GNU/Linux.....and yet it was a breeze! "
Congratulations! Welcome to the wonderful world of Debian!
And BTW, with my remarks I wasn't putting down Debian in any way. I was just commenting. When it comes to linux distros Debian is the mother of many of us :)
25 • RE: Suse and Fedora (by AQ) (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-04 14:43:54 GMT from Italy)
The SUSE-9.3-Eval-DVD.iso is exactly 4.2 GB.
Maybe the one you are looking at is the live DVD?
26 • debian (by Mark Kowarsky on 2005-07-04 15:01:59 GMT from Australia)
As a user of linux I have utmost respect of what Debian produces in one of the most stable, ported, secure distributions. The recent shenanigans with security and sarge once again illustrates to me that there are serious beaurocratic problems going on within Debian.
For such a large community the slowness of their releases astounds me. Compare this to FreeBSD which also provides a stable, secure operating system. Yet FreeBSD manages more frequent, up-to-date releases than debian. How do they manage to do this?
For all the good Debian provides they need to fix up any managerial problems and focus on what they do best, providing a solid, stable distribution. If they don't manage this then projects like Ubuntu will take over the lead as the faster developement and clearer goals attract users and developers faster than Debian's slow and painfull releases ever could.
Just my 2 cents
(A happy Gentoo user)
27 • Penguin (by AQ on 2005-07-04 15:10:54 GMT from United States)
Can you tell me what server you are finding that at, Anonymous Penguin. It would be appreciated.
The only one I found that was 2.3 GB was in a directory with the 9.3 pro CDs... and on more than one server.
28 • Correction (by AQ on 2005-07-04 15:22:57 GMT from United States)
The only one I found was the 2.3 GB eval-DVD in the directories with the 9.3 pro CDs... and I found the same across all mirrors. Visiting the ftps, each shows 9.3 EVal DVD at 2.39 GB.
They show the live DVD at 1.4 GB.
29 • Suse 9.3 (by Shikaeshi on 2005-07-04 15:53:27 GMT from United States)
I did an upgrade from SUSE 9.2 and the process worked flawlessly. The SUSE distro has worked the best for me on my Sony Vaio laptop. It has the most software and the best hardware detection of any Linux product available. I highly recommend this distro to anyone looking for a complete and stable linux.
30 • Suse 9.3 comment (by Ron Thomas on 2005-07-04 16:49:12 GMT from United States)
I have used SuSe on and off now for almost four years. I used to think it would eventually become the one to pick for all users alike. But since the Novell aquisition, this has slowly yet surely faded to the sidelines for me. I have used SuSe 9.3 on various computers and all with their own issues. I found myself doing the same thing as I once did with windows... re-installing becuase of weird issues arrising. BUT... everytime I have done a re-install with 9.3, it seems as though I find NEW problems. There seems to always be a problem I need to get figured out. Gets old after a while... especially when I just need to get things done in my business.
And not to mention the lagging slow bloatness about it. Even the Applications menu is slow!~ I click on the App menu and I have to sit there for about 2 whole seconds before it comes up! Now 2 seconds might not seem that long... but when you are on a roll and on the fly... that can be a PAIN IN THE A$$!!
Even Novell's tech support tries to sleeze out of helping you when you call or write them. I also have a few stories here, but no time to type it all out.
I feel Novell needs to step it up a bit! Maybe a LOT from where they are. They must think their sheet don't stink and figures they can do whatever and the crowd will still follow... well let me tell you... I had all of my family on SuSe 9.3 and friends too... and now they are all OFF of it and running either Ubuntu or Linspire. Hey... some may laugh at Linspire, but I feel they are doing great things for the Linux desktop and when you call Linspire for tech support, they actually take the time to help you out and go the extra mile!
In closing, I am very saddened by the thought that SuSe has come along way though now it seems to be taking several steps back in many ways. I have to say that I am now on the trail of debian based distro's and don't think I will be looking back onto the rpm based distro's. Slack is really the only real rpm based distro that needs recognition but it is not a newbie ready distro, so I won't be installing it to anyones desktop anytime soon.
Last word... my hopes are now actually on SYMPHONY! Check it out... it's a twist on the ole linux desktop though a good one in my opinion. Can't wait for ALPHA 4 to be released soon!
31 • RE: Penguin (by AQ) (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-04 17:45:10 GMT from Italy)
Well, this is the path in the Dutch mirror, for instance, and it is more or less the same in all mirrors:
ftp://ftp.nl.uu.net/pub/linux/suse/i386/current/iso/SUSE-9.3-Eval-DVD.iso
But you seem to be right: in the Swiss mirror it seem to be the size that you say. I don't know how to explain it, as I downloaded from that very mirror.
32 • But then again... (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-04 17:50:42 GMT from Italy)
...In another mirror (the primary one) it is 4.2 Gig:
ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/ftp.suse.com/suse/i386/current/iso/SUSE-9.3-Eval-DVD.iso
I don't really know what is going on.
33 • Suse DVD size - Was 4.2gb then replaced by a smaller 2.3gb DVD iso (by Andy on 2005-07-04 17:58:50 GMT from United Kingdom)
Don't know if anyone else noticed this, but the DVD iso image that was first released to the Mirrors was a full 4.2gb DVD iso. Then over the next 2 days all mirrors replaced this iso with a smaller 2.3gb DVD iso.
Not too sure why Suse did this? The readme on the mirrors states that the DVD is 4gb but clearly they've changed what they first made available! The 4.2gb DVD is suppose to contain both 32 and 64bit versions. However I've not had a chance to test the 2.3gb DVD iso yet, but I doubt it will contain both 32/64bit versions, it's simply not big enougth.
All those who were quick off the mark will be happy to have the 4.2gb version, but that leaves the ones who waited with what must be a less featured DVD.
Would be grateful if someone could confirm if in fact the 2.3gb DVD contains both 64/32bit OS.
34 • RE: (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-04 18:09:26 GMT from Italy)
"The 4.2gb DVD is suppose to contain both 32 and 64bit versions. However I've not had a chance to test the 2.3gb DVD iso yet, but I doubt it will contain both 32/64bit versions, it's simply not big enougth."
But still the 64bit folder was 1.6 Gig, so it doesn't add up.
I know for sure that all the SUSE mirrors have been under a tremendous stress.
35 • Suse DVD iso Size (by Andy on 2005-07-04 18:33:59 GMT from United Kingdom)
Just checked through all the mirrors. Only a handful are still running the original 4.2gb DVD iso. About 95% of them have replaced their 4.3gb iso with a much smaller 2.3gb iso. (I checked all mirrors on the day of release and the ones that offered the DVD, which is about 50% of mirrors, were running the 4.3gb iso. There not now!!
Not too sure what's going on. Really need to verify what's on the 2.3gb download. There's a huge difference in size between these 2 versions.
Also, be greatful if someone could confirm their MD5 for the 2.3gb DVD iso. Mine doesn't match any of the quoted MD5sums found on the mirrors. Someone previously mentioned they couldn't get a match after 3 download attempts, but there MD5 was always the same for all 3 downloads. Are the mirrors also quoting the wrong MD5?? This is what I have:
2bbafe7bef7fb1f0c44f5d8ca64fbb0d SUSE-9.3-Eval-DVD.iso
Cheers Andy
36 • SuSE size (by C.Skaggs on 2005-07-04 18:48:26 GMT from United States)
Can't tell you what they left out, i can only tell you the retail DVD is 8.2 gigs
i made a couple of copies for friends and it almost filled a dual layer DVD.
37 • Debian vs FreeBSD (by Anonymous on 2005-07-04 18:53:08 GMT from United States)
Apples and oranges. FreeBSD may give you access to a large set of packages via ports, but those are NOT tested or supported by the FreeBSD team. They will generally build cleanly, but beyond that, you're on your own. And breakage is not unheard of. In fact, it can happen quite often.
Only the base system, kernel and basic userland, are supported by the FreeBSD team. Add to that, unlike NetBSD, FreeBSD does not support as many arches as Debian. (Though the vancouver proposal will change that for Etch.)
38 • suse 9.3 bittorrent (by anonymous on 2005-07-04 18:55:52 GMT from Peru)
maybe this link will be usefull to check isos md5 or as another source to get from suse
http://www.interknet.net/bt/?torrent=suse93
39 • Who is the developer un-named in this piece? (by Al on 2005-07-04 19:11:12 GMT from United States)
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1833612,00.asp
Any ideas whom this might be?
40 • SuSE 9.3 (by Kadu on 2005-07-04 19:48:06 GMT from Brazil)
I've been a SuSE user since last december, first with 9.1 Personal and then 9.2 (full pro, from FTP). 9.3 did slow my (admittedly old) machine down, but otherwise it works fine and has detected even my hard-to-find USB phone handset. I agree this ditro is kinda bloated - it's supposed to be a desktop system and yet I find all types of development and server apps that I'll never use - and that may be opening the back door to hackers.
Anyway, it's my everyday system and it still is my Linux of choice. I may give ubuntu a try though if it's as light as people say. Well, Kubuntu to be exact (I hate Gnome).
41 • Suse Diffrent DVD sizes (by Andy on 2005-07-04 20:00:42 GMT from United Kingdom)
There at it again, all the mirrors that replaced their 4.3gb DVD iso with the smaller 2.3gb version have now started to re-replace with the original 4.3gb iso.
Don't know whats going on, but it looks like fun for the mirrors. Kinda like a game. now you see it now you dont!!! Think I'll wait for them to decide what's the correct one.
42 • RE: Debian issues? (by Tsela on 2005-07-04 20:32:03 GMT from Netherlands)
Anonymous Penguin: I wasn't taking your comments as attempts to put Debian down. My comment about Synaptic was just to tell that the missing PGP keys don't seem to prevent Synaptic from installing packages (I just installed MPlayer and its packages from the Marillat depository).
As for the rest, it's just me gloating a little. This weekend has been a wonderful educational time and my ego has been a bit boosted from managing to install Debian without a problem (after comments saying that even the new installer is difficult, I must say I was surprised by the easiness of it all ;) ). I did get a few post-install problems (mismanipulations of mine, causing problems with GNOME and X), but the nicest thing is that I could solve them *all*, without even having to look on Internet for the answer. Even problems make sense! So when I saw Debian was on-topic here at the moment, I couldn't prevent myself from commenting ;) .
And frankly, I should stop commenting now too, or I'm gonna begin to sound like a zealot ;) .
43 • Easy Debian Gnome (by Ariszló on 2005-07-04 20:50:51 GMT from Hungary)
Two weeks ago, Welkiner was looking for an easily installable Debian-based Gnome distribution. How about
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=parsix ?
44 • Ron (by Dark Leth at 2005-07-04 21:03:06 GMT from United States)
"Last word... my hopes are now actually on SYMPHONY! Check it out... it's a twist on the ole linux desktop though a good one in my opinion. Can't wait for ALPHA 4 to be released soon!"
Ryan is working quite hard on this distribution - Thanks for the recommendation to everyone. We in the community all hope it will be out soon.
Alex
45 • The number of disks (by William Roddy on 2005-07-04 21:23:45 GMT from United States)
This is NOT a sarcastic question. I really don't know the answer. Can anyone tell me why tell me why SuSE, Fedora, Mand*****, and some require several CDs to install a system, and distributions like KANOTIX, MEPIS, Ubuntu, KNOPPIX, PCLinuxOS, and many others, give you pretty much the same thing on one disk and, in most cases, be "live"?
Thanks.
Great issue and commentary, Ladislav.
William Roddy
46 • No subject (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-04 21:24:46 GMT from Italy)
"Don't know whats going on, but it looks like fun for the mirrors. Kinda like a game. now you see it now you dont!!!"
Amazing!
I hope these people:
http://forums.tlm-project.org/showthread.php?t=255
release the DVD torrent soon. At least I can check my iso (even if I have every reason to believe that it is OK)
47 • RE: RE: Debian issues? (by Tsela) (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-04 21:31:24 GMT from Italy)
"Anonymous Penguin: I wasn't taking your comments as attempts to put Debian down."
Yes I know, but my comments could indeed come across as criticism.
48 • RE: The number of disks (by William Roddy ) (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-04 21:43:38 GMT from Italy)
"This is NOT a sarcastic question. I really don't know the answer. Can anyone tell me why tell me why SuSE, Fedora, Mand*****, and some require several CDs to install a system, and distributions like KANOTIX, MEPIS, Ubuntu, KNOPPIX, PCLinuxOS, and many others, give you pretty much the same thing on one disk and, in most cases, be "live"?"
Well, did you notice that all the one CD distros you mention have one thing in common? They are non-commercial. But they have also large repositories (including PCLinuxOS) which you can use to install more packages if you so wish.
The commercial distros couldn't justify the amount of money they charge if they gave you only one CD.
And before somebody complains, I know, Fedora is not commercial, but it is the basis for a (very) commercial distro.
49 • suse 9.3 FTP install (by Ike Sumera on 2005-07-04 21:53:26 GMT from United States)
I just installed Suse9.3 thru FTP and am very disappointed. There is no sound but in the test sound in the control center works. I'm new to Linux and have been trying almost every new releases. I find Ubuntu, CentOS, Kanotix very good. The Foresight looks neat and the pcLinuxOS could also be in my Menu.lst. I wasted $$ on Suse6.2( my first try many years ago) and will never again.
50 • No subject (by MoKei on 2005-07-04 23:18:26 GMT from United States)
http://distrowatch.com/voltalinux seems interesting
I have to try this
51 • SUSE ISO sizes (by ladislav on 2005-07-04 23:43:39 GMT from Taiwan)
So there are two different SUSE 9.3 DVD images on the mirrors - a 4GB one and a 2GB one. What is going on?
Here is my theory of what happened. The correct size is 4GB. If you download the ISO from a mirror that carries a 2GB ISO image, you are NOT downloading the proper thing.
We know that certain file systems don't support file sizes larger than 2GB. Since SUSE has a large number of mirror sites and not all can possibly synchronise with the main server (if you've tried to download anything from ftp.suse.com during the past week then you know what I mean). So instead of mirroring the main server they might choose to mirror another SUSE mirror, simply because it's much faster. Now, if that mirror does not support file sizes larger than 2GB, they will not get the full 4GB ISO image. Thus the 2GB image gets propagated to many mirrors. Until now this wasn't a problem because we have rarely seen ISO images that large, but with the latest SUSE and the upcoming KNOPPIX 4.0, this will become an issue for mirrors running on older Linux kernels that don't support large file sizes.
In short, don't download from a mirror where the SUSE DVD image is only 2GB. Instead find another mirror with the correct size of 4GB and download from there.
52 • SUSE 9.3 ISO Images (by Anonymous Linux User on 2005-07-05 00:53:13 GMT from United States)
I downloaded the 5 CD ISO image set for SUSE 9.3
I must say this version is very nice, and is working great for me.
I tried 9.0,9.1,9.2 and for various different reasons I didn't like them.
9.1 had weird issues with mozilla not working except when it was run from the command line, 9.2 was better but I had problems that I never could resolve with openoffice.org hanging and not wanting to run unless I stopped the cups service from running which I needed to contact the network printers on our company network.
9.3 has hit the sweet spot though and will be staying on my personal workstation. So far everything is working beautifully and I'm looking forward to using it.
to everyone who is complaining about crippled multimedia performance be sure to grab all of the multimedia packs which are available on the online update for SUSE it fixes all audio and video file playback issues.
to SUSE / Novell you did a great job with 9.3 and thank you for making it available to the public like you did.
Keep up the great work!!!
53 • Re: The number of disks (by justme on 2005-07-05 00:57:54 GMT from Netherlands)
Mandriva requires just one CD/12 MB and gives you the choice to install ~ 10 000 packages.
How is this?
54 • Lycoris: Looking forward, looking back (by Robert Norton) (by gabbman at 2005-07-05 02:42:49 GMT from Canada)
As always, a nice factual chronology Robert. Very fitting eulogy about the life and death of Lycoris.
55 • site suggestion (by vampire_janus@yahoo.com on 2005-07-05 03:55:15 GMT from Philippines)
i would like to read past reviews on a certain distribution. but it seems that reviews are no longer added as news. there must be some way i could search past reviews.
56 • One CD for base+gui (by hobbitland on 2005-07-05 08:01:57 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi, what most people like is a singel CD to install as base Linux system with Gnome or KDE just like Ubuntu, Knoppix and Kanotix. Having a live edition is great as you can test it before downloading loads of CDs and wasting time installing (ie Fedora, Mandrive and SuSE).
I think Knoppix is good but its Linux 2.6 kernel releases are a bit buggy. Ubuntu seems to be better and in fact I used to be a KDE fan. I just want a base system with GUI that can be used not a 16MB or 64MB ftp install. Why do Mandriva think everybody has brandband or want to connect every machine to the net for install? We Ubuntu you first test the live edition and then choose to install. Then DL extra stuff and in fact youc an create your own 2nd CD with whtever you want (ie gcc/g77/java/games/nividia/mp3/decss/w32codecs etc) and give two CDs to your friends.
57 • RE: One CD for base+gui (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-05 08:17:28 GMT from Italy)
"I think Knoppix is good but its Linux 2.6 kernel releases are a bit buggy."
Knoppix was never meant to be installed. Kanotix is and it is great.
58 • RE: Past reviews (by ladislav on 2005-07-05 08:43:27 GMT from Taiwan)
Reviews are added to the relevant distribution pages. As an example, if you want to read past reviews of Ubuntu, just visit the Ubuntu page and scroll down to where it says "Reviews".
59 • Suse 9.3 rocks (by warpengi on 2005-07-05 08:54:37 GMT from Canada)
I installed a pre-release version of 9.3 on my laptop about 2 months ago. I found the pre-release version to be incredibly stable and it detected my wlan card and everything!!
That said I don't demand a lot out of my laptop. No multimedia or obscure applications, just a vanilla desktop (KDE) environment. The gnu command line tools are far more important for me than the gui on the laptop.
I just finished installing it on a friends computer. I am migrating him from MSWindows because he was calling me 3 or 4 times a year to reinstall after getting loaded to bursting with spyware and malware of all sorts. This guy is a hazard to himself and others on the internet. He falls for all the phishing and spyware scams and I felt it was high time to get him off the MSWindows habit and onto something safer.
I don't know what the problem is for people that are having install issues. I installed the prerelease and upgraded with no problems whatsoever on 3 different systems. I find this version of SuSE to be stable as a rock and very fast. I was running 9.2 on my laptop and KDE definitely feels faster in 9.3.
Suse still suffers from a lack of apps for my taste. Went back to Mandriva as my main desktop distro after a brief and unsatisfactory flirt with Kubuntu. I really wanted to use a Debian based distro but it was just too flaky. The desktop apps in Kubuntu are just not integrated seamlessly enough for me. I'm trying out Arch now and if everything continues like it has so far that will be my new desktop distro soon.
60 • Release cycle and SUSE 9.3 (by Olivier J at 2005-07-05 12:20:53 GMT from United States)
Hello,
Just a comment about "Mandriva has moved to a 12-month release cycle". That was indeed announced by Mandrake when the company became Mandriva. Yet, after a relabelled 10.2 out in May (or so), they have released a "KDE3.4" version in June (for club members) and will release Mandriva 2006 in august/september.
About SUSE 9.3., I'm delighted so far. I have tryed Mandriva, PCLinuxOS, Mepis, Ubuntu, Fedora Core. In my eyes, Suse is as good or better than any of those. BTW, for the guy tired of Windows Me, you could also give Windows XP a try ;-)
61 • @ Olivier J (by Tsela on 2005-07-05 13:59:32 GMT from Netherlands)
I suppose your comment about Windows ME was directed at me ;) .
Windows XP is simply not an option for me. My computer is 4 years old, and after adding a second hard drive and replacing the CD-burner with a DVD-burner, I just *don't* have the money to do any more hardware upgrades (unless the hardware breaks of course), which would be necessary if I wanted to run XP. And I've not mentioned the price of buying XP.
Moreover, I use XP at work, and I am *not impressed*. If anything, it feels *more* crippled than Windows ME (in the sense that it takes away even more freedom than Windows ME did), and the stability difference is marginal in my experience.
While through installing Debian, I suddenly got a box that feels twice as fast as it used to be, plays videos that I couldn't play under Windows because my computer was supposedly too slow (more than that, videos that I couldn't watch on Windows even when all unnecessary processes were stopped show perfectly on Debian even with a browser, email client, and bittorrent client running at the same time!!!), and *feels* free (I've never felt so much in control of my computer).
Windows XP just cannot measure up here.
BTW, I *know* you were writing tongue-in-cheek ;) . I just wanted to point out why Windows ME will be the first *and* last Windows version to have ever been present on a computer of mine (my two previous computers were an Amstrad CPC and an Amiga. I've always been Windows-free until Windows ME ;) ).
62 • Suse 9.3 cd disk 1 iso and MD5 (by ReFoRMaT on 2005-07-05 16:11:46 GMT from Canada)
I downloaded the cd disk 1 iso from several different servers (3 in all) and none of them matched the md5 hash. Either the iso is corrupt or some genius posted the wrong hash for disk 1 because it is the same on every server. Just thought you should know because it may turn out to be "news".
63 • Re: @ Olivier J (by ReFoRMaT on 2005-07-05 17:05:54 GMT from Canada)
You are absolutely right about XP, if you don't like it at work, you will like it even less at home. Micro$lop Windohs XPensive is loaded with Microspyware, the d*mn thing wants to phone home ALL THE TIME for the stupidest reasons (that's why M$ put in their own firewall, preconfigured permissions for the 'phonehomeware'). 2k is the best they ever made and will ever make, they are falling down the other side of the 'hill' now with their 'we know what's better for you so we will babysit you whether you like it or not' policy. I have tried to shut off useless phonehomeware (in increments) but something always causes the OS to start acting up even though NO DEPENDENCIES are reported in the so-called 'service' properties. XPensive is a butchered 2k with Fisher Price graphics and loads of Microspyware. I barely boot into 2k anymore. I currently use Mepis 3.3 and am about to try Suse 9.3 because Mepis does not "see" my recently acqired firewire cd re-writer. BTW, Mepis 3.3.1 doesn't "see" the drive either and pppoeconf
does not 'hold' my dsl password like it does in 3.3.
P.S. You probably already know all this stuff but is a good excuse to tell Winslaves that come here what their OS provider is really all about. >;-]
64 • The Search for the Perfect Desktop (by William Roddy on 2005-07-05 18:18:03 GMT from United States)
I'm always on the look-out for a "perfect" desktop Linux and I try most of them, as they progress. One week, one certain flavor might be best, but a week later, another flavor might fix, bugs, add features, be more up-to-date, or offer something else intriguing.
As of today -- and I emphasize "today" -- I like Debian-based distributions best. Of those, combining ease of installation, speed of installation, completeness, being Debian-compatible, offering cutting-edge apps, and putting it all together so it works, I find that KANOTIX is the one I perceive to be best.
Using a combination of all the criteria I mentioned, as of today, my list would read:
KANOTIX
Ubuntu 5.04
Fedora Core 4 (even though it's not Debian)
MEPIS
Debian
PCLinuxOS
Suse
Scientific Linux (the most stable, for free Enterprise solution)
That being said, I would not be afraid or ashamed to recommend ANY of these distributions to a Microsoft-monopoly user.
And there are others, I'm sure, that I might use, were it not for my own preferences/prejudices, that are well-qualified to be a desktop or server solution for ANYONE.
But, at this moment, if one wants a cutting-edge desktop that's configurable, full-featured right after install, is completely Debian-compatible, and has a proven track record of frequent updates, KANOTIX wins my heart.
KANOTIX seems to get far less attention that it deserves.
Your list might be different, but I'd sure enjoy seeing it. Thanks.
William
65 • Kanotix (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-05 23:32:45 GMT from Italy)
"KANOTIX seems to get far less attention that it deserves."
Very well said, William. Maybe we Kanotix users don't like to make as much noise as the users of other distros (you know who they are :)
66 • Mandriva and Lycoris (by Geert on 2005-07-06 02:28:29 GMT from United States)
I am using an old Dell dimenson with a whopping 266 Mhz processor, beefed up to 412 Mb Memory.
I tried different distributions, but they all had some major problem:
First liveCDs: Beatrix is wonderful, simple and provides everything I need except for one or two things, a distribution aimed at oldhardware should be able to run a ISA soundcard (sbawe to be precise). Ubuntu had the same problem. Knoppix just did not find the video (nvidia riva tnt 128).
Probably you linux wizards can find a way around all this, but I want to use this computer as a demonstration. Things should work. And Linux should work for me too, not for a me who has to become a geek and learn code first.
Tried to install things. Beatrix was out because he does not close right on cd. Perhaps I was too strictk on that.
Having been always a KDE fan, and I like fiddling with my desktop, I went for KUBUNTU. It is beautiful with the KDE 3.4. I learned to master apt-get, synaptec and even dpkg in order to try alsoconf to run and sndconfig and get things from the debian unstable repositories, but still no sound. also, a lot of programs crashed on me. Kate came down on me several times.
After a day, I gave up.
Went back to Mandrake. After an hour I had everything running, sound included.
But most points you make are true. It is way too bloated. once booted, it runs as fast as the others, but it takes at least 3 times longer to boot than Kubuntu and 5 times longer than windows 2000.
Why is Mandrake shipping such an ugly desktop? People love the freedom to fiddle with their screensavers (have you seen theirs? did you? nightmarish!) some more imaginative photographs for background, some more styles, add at least baghira or something fun. And splash screens. Is there nothing more stylish than the one image you deliver?
moreover give the option for a simple basic desktop without crashing programs (did anyone ever really played tuxracer, don include KDE-games until they work): some simple games, openoffice, firefox, thunderbird, the Gimp, a music player like noatun. Kaffeine is way too slow. The automatic selections are indeed impossible to fathom for beginners.
And how do you update? None of the links really work for more than a few minutes after installing them.
67 • ubuntu cds (by paul h on 2005-07-06 02:39:06 GMT from United States)
yep , i ordered 11 ubuntu 5.04 cds and expect to hand them out to my neighbors that have windows and is beyond help, use dialup, would like to use linux or just as a upgrade. i feel that ubuntu will become a major leader within 2 years. they are owned by a multi gazionallare. from 4.10 ( buggy) to 5.04 ( flawless) i feel that they will start working on hardware supported and other stuff. i have tryed 30+ distros and found the new dog to be the best pick for me.
hey it also keeps me cpu at a 5% or less load at all times which mean less noise and heat. compared to windows with a cpu load of 50%+ at ALL times and hardware on the virge of over heating.
68 • nice debian Parsix (by Fotograf at 2005-07-06 02:47:56 GMT from Canada)
2 Ariszló• Easy Debian Gnome (by Ariszló on 2005-07-04 20:50:51 GMT from Hungary)
Tnanks for the hint ! I tested that Pasix0.60 with Gnome = very reliable ! Live mode did not install NVIDIA 3D but may be after a hdd-install I will be able to apt-get glx ?
69 • Well anotehr week another great Distro Weekly! (by Scott Wilson on 2005-07-06 04:38:11 GMT from United States)
Well I have SUSE 9.3 running. Very nice! Did a FTP install on my desktop.
No real complaints, going to live with e KDE desktop till this weekend and then try some of the other window managers. I don't run cutting edge hardware (usually pickup used PC for around $50 to $0.00. So I don't have any real issues. After three days, I think SUSE has become my main desktop. I really like Debian. I will probably install sarge on a old P II 450 machine I have in the closet.
I did have a heck of the time getting the CD to burn correctly. May be I had a network hiccup on the download. (?)
For all of you that are suffering problems with Linux (insert distro here) I really suggest that you obtain a live CD version and try it on your hardware before you spend the money or time on installing the Linux (insert Distro here) If you have a factory built machine( Dell, HP, IBM, Toshiba) there might be hardwares compatibly problems.
Another great read!
70 • Kanotix vs. Knoppix (by Ed Borasky on 2005-07-06 06:09:58 GMT from United States)
I haven't tried installing Kanotix to a hard drive, so I can't comment on that. However, I *have* installed Knoppix to a hard drive. I didn't find the install itself all that difficult (of course I'm a Gentoo user :) but what you end up with on your hard drive after a Knoppix install is a cross-breed of Debian unstable, Debian testing and custom packages that defy logic when trying to sync up with the Debian repositories. Maybe it's better now than it was in the 3.6 days, but I gave up on Knoppix installs and now I just go straight to Debian when I want a Debian install on a hard drive.
So ... does a Kanotix install to a hard drive leave you with a "clean" and easily synced Debian? I've only used it as a "rescue CD"; it seems to come up quite a bit slower than Knoppix, but other than that I don't have any real preferences between the two for rescue purposes.
71 • Factory built machines? (by Ed Borasky on 2005-07-06 06:13:27 GMT from United States)
"For all of you that are suffering problems with Linux (insert distro here) I really suggest that you obtain a live CD version and try it on your hardware before you spend the money or time on installing the Linux (insert Distro here) If you have a factory built machine( Dell, HP, IBM, Toshiba) there might be hardwares compatibly problems."
Well, now, quite a few "factory-built" machines are available with Linux installed now And for the others, I haven't run across anything yet that couldn't compile and run Gentoo.
72 • Re: Suse 9.3 cd disk 1 iso and MD5 (by ReFoRMaT on 2005-07-06 06:20:37 GMT from Canada)
The disk 1iso of the 5 disk (cds) Suse 9.3 set with the bad md5 hash posted on all servers tested good in command line yast media check reporting this hash: 81cd9eb9f04d1dc4c9d7cc9eaf10081e
73 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2005-07-06 06:42:09 GMT from United States)
Ed Borasky: In my experience, KANOTIX installs more easily and leaves a better footprint when complete than KNOPPIX.
Yes, it uses "unstable" and "testing" repositories, and yes, there are some KANOTIX kernel patches and other helpful files. But, as I mentioned, it allows what has been for me the flawless use of the latest software (I also installed GNOME from the repositories and it's the latest version, too).
As for Debian compatibility, here are the repositories in the /etc/apt directory that are available after installation of KANOTIX 2005-03 (NOTE: the non-US Debian mirrors are no longer available):
# Unstable
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian-non-US/ unstable/non-US main contrib non-free
# Sources
deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian-non-US/ unstable/non-US main contrib non-free
# Testing
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian-non-US/ testing/non-US main contrib non-free
# Sources
deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian-non-US/ testing/non-US main contrib non-free
# Experimental
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ ../project/experimental main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ ../project/experimental main contrib non-free
# kpkgmanager, kio-apt
deb http://lpnotfr.free.fr/debian/ ./
deb-src http://lpnotfr.free.fr/debian/ ./
# KDE 3.4
deb http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/kde-3.4.0/ ./
deb http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/kde-3.4.1/ ./
# KDETV
deb http://dziegel.free.fr/debian/ unstable/
# Kanotix
deb http://kanotix.com/files/debian/ ./
deb-src http://kanotix.com/files/debian/ ./
Hope the information is useful to you and to others.
William
74 • THE PREVIOUS POST (by William Roddy on 2005-07-06 06:45:07 GMT from United States)
I hit the "send" button before I entered my name, etc., atop the previous post about KANOTIX. Sorry.
75 • RE: Kanotix vs. Knoppix (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-06 09:24:05 GMT from Italy)
"So ... does a Kanotix install to a hard drive leave you with a "clean" and easily synced Debian?"
In a few words, Klaus Knopper never meant his distro to be installed to HD, whilst Kano built his distro mainly for that purpose.
Kanotix has been my main distro since January, and my sole distro since a couple of months: I couldn't be more satisfied.
76 • LET'S CELEBRATE!!!!! (by AQ on 2005-07-06 11:38:27 GMT from United States)
The European parliament has rejected the software patent directive by 97%!!!
This means that our good friends mplayer, videolan client, and a host of others are going to have some freedom for some time to come, (at least until the next corrupt patent directive).
77 • Re: LET'S CELEBRATE!!!!! (by Tsela on 2005-07-06 12:06:44 GMT from Netherlands)
Since the commission has no intention of making a new draft, it will be a while before software patents come back... at the European level. On the other hand, this decision gives each country the right to introduce software patents on their own on their territory. The war is not over, but the battle we won is significant!
78 • Ubuntu (by Robert on 2005-07-06 13:12:45 GMT from United States)
Just to comment, Ubuntu is a good product, but it IS NOT Debian! It is based on Debian, but is incompatible with the Debian repositories. If you want a Debian proper system, either use the Sarge discs to install or try debianpure. 0.1 of debianpure works pretty well and I'm told 0.2 will have a lot of fixes and installation will be even smoother. I don't see the point of Ubuntu recreating repositories that have been proven and well tested already.
79 • Re: LET'S CELEBRATE!!!!! (by Ariszló on 2005-07-06 13:23:13 GMT from Hungary)
I was pessimistic but now I am happy!
80 • I stick by my comments (by Scott Wilson on 2005-07-06 13:52:00 GMT from United States)
There are a range of linux skill sets that access this page. Their are user that are using a wide range of PC's and Macs. Almost every week, there are posts from users that are having hardware issues. The very cutting edge PC, with newer video, sound,ect may not work with Linux. This is a fact. That is why I think you should try a live distro version before you try to load an Linux OS.
SUSE is the best in shrink wrapped Linux. Followed by Linspire (retail version) Gentoo has its pro and cons same with every other Distro.
I try think as a newbie, not as a Linux Guru. I think "out of the box experience", in trying to get someone to try Linux. You know the ones that think AOL is the internet, or that the Microsoft OS and Office are the only choice, because the decal on the front of the box states that is "made for Windows XP" Not every one has broadband connection, many people just buy of the shelf software. You can compile a kernel, an application or make it work on a new PC great! But can you help a newbie with out the standard RTFM responds to their question?
81 • A GREAT DAY! (by William Roddy on 2005-07-06 16:59:37 GMT from United States)
1. Congratulations to the open-source community, and most particularly, to those who campaigned so fiercely against software patents in Europe.
2. Profound thanks to the European Parliament form their judgment on this issue.
3. Ubuntu may not be pure Debian for a good reason: it wants to develop quickly. It appears that most of the rewriting of Debian elements is being done to clean and convert them to a uniform language -- python. No distro that wishes speedy development can anchor itself to Debian. On one hand, we have a well-tested distro; on the other, we have distros (and users) who are knowingly willing to take caluclated risks, in order to advance more quickly. The choice, then, is the user's.
They are also converting more quickly than most to G++-4.0. They pay great homage to Debian but do not claim to BE pure Debian, and recommend only their own repositories.
4. I think Scott Wilson has come up with a great way to think about Linux: "Think Like A Newbie" should be the slogan of every distribution that wishes to receive broad interest from the public or to compete with Microsoft-monopoly.
5. Using Scott Wilson's measuring stick, as of today -- and I repeat, as of today -- it is my opinion that KANOTIX is the best "out-of-the-box" experience.
I make all these comments with the deepest appreciation for ALL Linux and BSD developers and flavors, and with the deepest thanks to them all for providing us with such an excellent, wonderful selection of distributions from which to chose.
Each distribution is a measuring stick against the others. Since Microsoft-monopoly can only measure itself against itself, it will never recognize how small-minded it is.
82 • The Perfect Desktop (by Antonio on 2005-07-06 17:41:48 GMT from United States)
Your list might be different, but I'd sure enjoy seeing it. Thanks.
To William,
I agree with your list alot with some exceptions because I have not tried some of your distros.
Anyway, Here is my list:
Fedora Core X
where 2 < x <= 4, since I did not use Yarrow, Fedora Core 1.,
general all purpose operating system which has very useful and
free software
Slax
copy2ram, play DVD's, small compact and works on most
machines I have tried.
Kanotix,
if you have 2 drives can play most multimedia, kile + latex =
typeset beautiful documents anywhere.
SystemRescueCD,
to create partitions using qtparted
FreeSBIE,
enjoy the power of FreeBSD without installing, primes
command to print the prime numbers from starting point to
ending point.
Knoppix,
general all purpose, rescue, and games for my students
Old Mandrake X where 9.0 < X <= 10.0.
Mandrake has a special place in my heart. It won me over RedHat 8.0 and RedHat 9.0. I could not play MP3s and DVDs in RedHat whereas Mandrake with libdvdcss2 shined. I still had RedHat 9.0 Shrike on another machine and I used them both.
I have not tried Mepis, or Ubuntu so I cannot comment on them. But all I can say is that at least we agree on some.
Regards
83 • ABBOT AND COSTELLO (by William Roddy on 2005-07-06 18:27:56 GMT from United States)
(Shorted version of an e-mail I just received.)
ABBOT: Super Duper Computer Store... Can I help you?
COSTELLO: I'm thinking about buying a computer.
ABBOT: Mac?
COSTELLO: No, the name's Lou
ABBOT: Your computer?
COSTELLO: I don't own a computer. I want to buy one.
ABBOT: Mac?
COSTELLO: I told you, my name's Lou.
ABBOT: What about Windows?
COSTELLO: Why? Did I just make a noise in my pants?
ABBOT: Look, do you want to buy a computer with Windows?
COSTELLO: A computer with windows. I don't know. What'll I see when I look in these windows?
ABBOT: Wallpaper.
COSTELLO: I don't want to look at wallpaper. I want a computer and some software.
ABBOT: Software for Windows?
COSTELLO: No! On the computer! I need software, don't I? What have you got?
ABBOT: Office.
COSTELLO: Yeah, for my office. Can you recommend anything?
ABBOT: I just did.
COSTELLO: You just did what?
ABBOT: Recommend something.
COSTELLO: You recommended something?
ABBOT: Yes.
COSTELLO: For my office?
ABBOT: Yes
COSTELLO: OK, what did you recommend for my office?
ABBOT: Office.
COSTELLO: Yes, for my office!
ABBOT: I recommend Office with Windows.
COSTELLO: I already have an office and it has windows! OK, let's say I'm in my office with windows, sitting at my computer, and I want to check my money? What do I need?
ABBOT: Money.
COSTELLO: That's right. What do you have?
ABBOT: Money.
COSTELLO: I need money to track my money?
ABBOT: It comes bundled with your computer.
COSTELLO: What's bundled to my computer?
ABBOT: Money.
COSTELLO: Money comes with my computer?
ABBOT: Yes.
COSTELLO: I get a bundle of money with my computer? How much?
ABBOT: One copy.
COSTELLO: Isn't it illegal to copy money?
ABBOT: Microsoft gives a license to use Money.
COSTELLO: They give you a license to use money?
ABBOT: Why not? They own it.
84 • Re: The Search for the Perfect Desktop (by Ariszló on 2005-07-06 21:19:05 GMT from Hungary)
These are my criteria for a perfect distribution:
1. It should be optimized for my machine, which means it should be compiled with -march=ipent4 or at least -mcpu=i686. Binaries should be stripped.
2. It should be stable and reliable.
3. It should install fast
4. KDE should look KDE and Gnome should look Gnome. No distro-specific look and feel.
5. No dependency-hell (= no dependency-checking).
For me, Slackware comes closest to an ideal Linux distribution. Two years ago, my favorite distribution was Yoper V1, which was very much like Slackware but built with -march=i686. I still like Yoper V2 for its speed but it has changed a lot: it uses rpm rather than tgz and its look and feel is getting more and more branded.
Slackware and Yoper are permanently on my computers along with an ever-changing selection of other distributions.
Irrespective of the above criteria, I also like Arch Linux, Frugalware, Pingwinek and Underground Desktop.
85 • RE: Suse 9.3 rocks and Ubuntu is not Debian (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-06 22:09:09 GMT from Italy)
Warpengi wrote:
"I really wanted to use a Debian based distro but it was just too flaky. The desktop apps in Kubuntu are just not integrated seamlessly enough for me. "
As somebody else said, Ubuntu is NOT Debian. To me, a long time Debian user, Ubuntu doesn't feel like Debian in the least, and I find that it limits me a lot.
If you want to try the pure freedom of Debian, use either the Sarge installer or Kanotix (100% pure Debian Sid)
Kanotix is the living proof that a bleeding edge, featureful desktop distro, released 5 or 6 times a year is possible without forking Debian.
86 • RE: SUSE review (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-06 22:30:30 GMT from Italy)
"It has every Linux application that anyone is ever likely to want..."
Well, I don't understand how anybody can say that: I can't be the only one who wants:
1) Full multimedia support. The 4 multimedia updates are not much help. And for the first time not even apt has been able to give me what I reasonably expected: watching WMP streamings.
2)P2P support: I especially can't understand why if I want Bittornado or Bittorrent-gui I must compile them myself: I use them to download linux distros, not for warez.
And please don't tell me to use Azureus, because I hate it.
In Debian I take all the above for granted.
87 • And BTW... (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-06 22:36:20 GMT from Italy)
Fedora isn't my cup of tea, but I can easily get full multimedia and P2P support. Same with Mandriva.
88 • I stick by my comments (by Scott Wilson on 2005-07-07 01:02:28 GMT from United States)
There are a range of linux skill sets that access this page. Their are user that are using a wide range of PC's and Macs. Almost every week, there are posts from users that are having hardware issues. The very cutting edge PC, with newer video, sound,ect may not work with Linux. This is a fact. That is why I think you should try a live distro version before you try to load an Linux OS.
SUSE is the best in shrink wrapped Linux. Followed by Linspire (retail version) Gentoo has its pro and cons same with every other Distro.
I try think as a newbie, not as a Linux Guru. I think "out of the box experience", in trying to get someone to try Linux. You know the ones that think AOL is the internet, or that the Microsoft OS and Office are the only choice, because the decal on the front of the box states that is "made for Windows XP" Not every one has broadband connection, many people just buy of the shelf software. You can compile a kernel, an application or make it work on a new PC great! But can you help a newbie with out the standard RTFM responds to their question?
89 • Sorry for the double post (by Scott Wilson on 2005-07-07 01:20:01 GMT from United States)
I dont know how that happen?
If its Linux is cool ( or BSD, I thinker with FreeBSD from Time to time) no matter what flavor.
As for the best "out of the box experience" I was refering to what you can get on the retail shelves. The only Linux OS on the shelves at Comp USa and other retail stores in the Phoenix area are: SUSE 9.x, Red Hat Workststion, and a few times Linspire and FreeBSD.
I work as a Field Service Tech, I am surprise how some people will fork over $299 for XP upgrade or $399 for a full version. Or that they will buy multiple copies of the Office and OS software, when they will bypass the box of Suse that runs about $90 with a full office suite and hundreds of packages.
90 • Re: Suse 9.3 comment (by Ron Thomas) (by ReFoRMaT on 2005-07-07 05:41:30 GMT from Canada)
First I would like to say, good post.
"I found myself doing the same thing as I once did with windows... re-installing becuase of weird issues arrising. BUT... everytime I have done a re-install with 9.3, it seems as though I find NEW problems. There seems to always be a problem I need to get figured out. Gets old after a while"
Geeze, I thought I was the only one with that problem. Note to noobs, do not use repair system (trashed my Mepis partition but left others alone) or system update (screws up preconfigured scripts and symlinks, etc.). I also find, if you are not careful what you 'yast online update', you will wind up re-installing because troubleshooting becomes a frustrating and monotonous nightmare.
"I feel Novell needs to step it up a bit! Maybe a LOT from where they are. They must think their sheet don't stink and figures they can do whatever and the crowd will still follow"
Right again. I definitely get that creepy Microsux feeling when maneuvering around Suse. The 'ol 'we know what's best and we will babysit you whether you like it or not' attitude in the OS.
"I have to say that I am now on the trail of debian based distro's and don't think I will be looking back onto the rpm based distro's"
Agree again. RPM must stand for repetitive package malfunction. I have had little to no problems with Debian repositories or packages. Firefox upgrading has been flawless compared to bookmarks not working after upgrade in Suse 9.3. Come to think of it, my experience with Suse 9.1 wasn't much different, change one little thing and the whole OS starts to unravel.
91 • Puppy on the RISE (by klhrevolutionist on 2005-07-07 05:43:43 GMT from United States)
While others seem to want to fill their costly hard drives with bloated distro's. Puppy linux has got everything an everyday user would need.
And with the upcoming release of Puppy 1.0.4 coming out in as little as two weeks. I would like to see people test drive this mini cooper of the linux distro's. Reason being, most end user's will appreciate the size and speed and support! So distrowatch, help put puppy above dsl and make this the number one small distro! Thanks, any questions feel free to vist http://www.murga.org/%7Epuppy/
Thanks, klhrevolutionist
92 • RE: Re: Suse 9.3 comment (by ReFoRMaT ) (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-07 06:11:01 GMT from Italy)
"Right again. I definitely get that creepy Microsux feeling when maneuvering around Suse. The 'ol 'we know what's best and we will babysit you whether you like it or not' attitude in the OS."
I second that. I feel absolutely the same. But then newbies probably like that babysitting.
93 • Evolution of Linux distributions (by hobbitland on 2005-07-07 08:28:06 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi, I think Linux distributions are just following evolution. SuSE and
Mandrake are created from early genetic mutations of Red Hat.
Ubuntu is just a genetic mutated Debian. Knoppix is a mutation of
Debian while Kanotix is yet another mutation.
No Linux distribution (specis) will dominate. We expect more mutations
to make new distributions while some distributions will become extinct
(no users). So stubborn Linux distributions will just lose user/custoemrs.
94 • Debian (by Matt on 2005-07-07 15:25:13 GMT from United States)
The security updates for Sarge are flowing again. Nothing to see here, move along.
95 • Re: RE: Re: Suse 9.3 comment by Anonymous Penguin (by ReFoRMaT on 2005-07-07 21:33:04 GMT from Canada)
"I second that. I feel absolutely the same. But then newbies probably like that babysitting."
Which is really odd because in the setup, you are asked some really minor detail questions as opposed to a sensible 'defaults' install. Talk about contradictions! The partitioning administration and selection is awful.
96 • anti-Ubuntu FUD (by gnobian_ken00bie on 2005-07-07 23:11:58 GMT from United States)
The first thing to say is that if you don't like a distro, just don't use it. It's one thing if you're responding to an article, but shots against Ubuntu seem to flow quite spontaneously. This really confuses me. I could understand if Ubuntu were like Microsoft, where the ubiquity of the OS is being used to push everyone else around, but I've seen nothing of the sort.
Strangely, I see a mixture of complaints. On the one hand, I hear that Ubuntu is nothing special, so why not just use Debian? On the other hand, that Ubuntu is nothing like Debian. Perhaps the contradiction is only apparent and in fact, would disappear were the complaints clarified.
The one complaint that does seem clear, apart from vague and unfounded accusations of Ubuntu users pushing themselves everywhere (I certainly haven't seen that here. But I'm sure every distro has jerks in its user base.) is the big, bad monster of forking.
I haven't seen any specific examples of problems, only this vague suggestion that it's such an awful thing. Usually, the conflicts between packages for various rpm-based distros is pointed to as an example of the potential problems. Since, apart from that, I see no substantive arguments against Ubuntu, I'll focus on that.
There are a few reasons that the situation is different from the rpm situation. First of all, dpkg is a more robust system of package management. The most that I've seen happen when trying to mix repositories is a warning that a certain set of dependencies can't be resolved. And this happens immediately. not after you've tried finding this dependency, resolving that conflict, etc.
Second, both Debian and Ubuntu have larger respoitories than those other distros. So there's less need to go outside.
Third, a big source of incompatibility with rpm-based distros is the fact that each of them has their own ideas about where configuration files and the like out to be located. This isn't a problem for Debian/Ubuntu, because Debian is committed to FHS and very conscientious about maintaining consistent policy in that area. And Ubuntu shows every sign of following suit. So that sort of conflict is unlikely.
Fourth, and the reason we can expect Ubuntu to continue following Debian's lead on these matters, is that unlike what is usually called a fork, Ubuntu returns every 6 months to its Debian roots. It didn't just go its own way to become more and more incompatible as is the case with some of the rpm distros Murdock mentioned.
I have no wish to bash Debian. I have been deeply saddened to see Debian's recent stumbles. And I am hopeful that they will recover and be better than ever. This isn't just because Ubuntu depends on Debian, though any misguided Ubuntu user who takes these stumbles as a chance to bash Debian should remember that fact. And it's not just because right now, I've yet to see Ubuntu provide the stability necessary for mission critical applications. That will likely change with the enterprise release Ubuntu has mentioned from the beginning. No, I am saddened because Debian represents an ideal that I deeply admire. That a completely volunteer, non-profit project can assemble a project so ambitious and so brilliant should be gratifying to any human being. Even one who has no interest in GNU/Linux or even in computers should be proud of what the Debian project says about humanity at its best. It diminishes us all to think that such a project cannot succeed. And though still a newbie, I am studying hard so that someday I can make more contributions to that project.
I also have no wish to bash Kanotix. In fact, I'm using it right now. But I do want to point something out. Kanotix has recently been wonderfully stable, but that's in no small part because Debian has been in a freeze! The way the Debian release cycle goes, we can undoubtedly expect breakage in sid and even etch to happen a lot more often in the next few months. This isn't FUD. This is from Debian's own site. The fork and polish strategy of Ubuntu has made little contrast with sid coming up to the release of sarge, but I predict it will make a dramatic difference in a few months and for several months after.
Finally, I fail to see why people should expect complete compatibility between Debian and Ubuntu repositories. Anyone with any experience with Debian knows that using pinning to mix stable, testing, and unstable branches is a great way to hose their system if they aren't careful. Why should Ubuntu's repositories be any different? Think of it as another branch and mix at your own risk. And they're pretty darned complete in themselves, so what's the problem?
The main reason forking would be an issue, since both Debian and Ubuntu maintain their own large repositories, is with third party repositories. I ran into problems with Marillat and Ubuntu, but they were resolved. And I installed the latest WINE from Sourceforge and Xfce from OScillation - both Debian packages - on warty with no problems whatsoever. With these and a few other cases, I've seen nothing to confirm the supposed difficulties of incompatibility.
97 • Good to see the Suse issue cleared up (by AQ on 2005-07-07 23:58:19 GMT from United States)
I pulled off a download of the Suse DVD, but won't have time to try it for awhile. What exactly is this Eval DVD? Is it just 9.3 professional for different media, or is it some other thing? Is it the same as the shrinkwrapped versions?
Thanks for any help.
98 • RE: Good to see the Suse issue cleared up (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-08 02:25:38 GMT from Italy)
"What exactly is this Eval DVD?"
Well, it is almost exactly the boxed SUSE 9.3 DVD, with 2 differences:
1) It is half the size. You can install what is missing either by adding one or two source to YasT or by using APT.
2)From what I can see it contains all the updates. So in fact it is more stable than the original DVD.
You can use it both for 32 and 64bit systems.
99 • To our friends in England (by William Roddy on 2005-07-08 02:50:36 GMT from United States)
My wife and I send our deepest sympathy to, and solidarity with, all of our fellow human beings in England, after today's horrible events.
William Roddy
100 • RE: anti-Ubuntu FUD (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-08 02:51:09 GMT from Italy)
I will not go now into the merit of why Ubuntu is a fork of Debian and why that is not good for Debian. So much has already been said, in almost every forum on the internet. For instance I am a regular of OSNews. Nobody less than the Debian founder has spoken about it.
So who am I, a pretty ordinary Debian user to add anything? I only know that if I replace my repositories in Ubuntu with Debian Sid and perform a dist upgrade, that doesn't work. Which is very odd, considering that every release of Ubuntu should be a Sid snapshot.
"I also have no wish to bash Kanotix. In fact, I'm using it right now. But I do want to point something out. Kanotix has recently been wonderfully stable, but that's in no small part because Debian has been in a freeze! The way the Debian release cycle goes, we can undoubtedly expect breakage in sid and even etch to happen a lot more often in the next few months. This isn't FUD. This is from Debian's own site"
That might indeed be the case. But:
1)It is reasonable to assume that Kano, before a new release, will make sure that there are no bugs in his distro.
2)Of course people want to dist-upgrade or install more packages:
they can use apt-listbugs and/or pin their sources list either to testing or even stable: that is not as odd as it might sound.
"Anyone with any experience with Debian knows that using pinning to mix stable, testing, and unstable branches is a great way to hose their system if they aren't careful."
That is not my experience at all and, even if I am by no means an "experienced user" (whatever that means) I didn't start yesterday either. Apt is a lot smarter than people are aware of.
101 • Re:Ubuntu, Kanotix, Penguin Italiano Anonimo (by gnobian_ken00bie on 2005-07-08 04:30:42 GMT from United States)
(Please don't take offense at my playfulness with your name. I meant to lighten things and hope it doesn't backfire.)
I know that a lot has been said about Ubuntu being a fork - on both sides. People from newbies to experienced developers have taken both sides, so I don't think mere argumentums ad populum or argumentums ad verecundiam get to the point.
I've set forth my reasons for believing that ultimately it is not a bad thing, specifically addressing myself to Murdock's arguments. Of course, you aren't responsible to defend someone else's views, though if you repeat them, I do wonder how you'd answer the counters.
I don't find it the least bit odd that the changing sources/dist-upgrade from warty to sid doesn't work for one reason: Ubuntu isn't merely a sid snapshot. It includes patches but it also includes packages that had not yet made it into sid, so some are ahead of sid and some are behind. I suspect that one of the reasons that Kano changed Kanotix 2005.2 back to Xfree86 from X.org was because the same problems were encountered there, albeit to a lesser extent because the divergence from sid wasn't as great.
But if the worst that can be said of Ubuntu is that a straightforward dist-upgrade to sid isn't possible, that's hardly damning. How often would one need to do that? The Ubuntu installer is based on the sarge installer, so it's not a matter of a shortcut to pure Debian.
(Incidentally, a dist-upgrade to sid from MEPIS or Knoppix will similarly cause problems, but I didn't see the same railing against those distros.)
I have tremendous respect for Kano, but I can't even imagine he can achieve in a few months what hundreds of Debian developers couldn't do given years, a distro with "no bugs". (Even Debian stable has bugs, just not release-critical ones.) But I imagine you mean he'll try to catch any showstopper bugs. I'm sure he'll do his best, but it's a daunting task. I don't envy him it.
No doubt I came across as pompous (instead of merely pedantic, which I confess to being) in speaking of what "experienced users" know. Especially since, by my own admission, I am a newbie. Besides that, I did overstate the point by suggesting that a "hosed" system is a common occurrence with pinning. It isn't. What I should have said is that if one isn't very careful, unsatisfiable circles of dependencies and particularly, security holes can very easily enter the picture. Doing dist-upgrade then can cause major problems. Not always. Perhaps not even typically. But it does happen. Caveat Penguin.
But by the same token, it is entirely possible to use pinning to install select packages from sid. No dist-upgrade, but just a few packages. The same warnings apply. Still, I can't see why anyone should want to do that. You can more readily pin from breezy, which in some areas is more current than sid. And it's not as if Ubuntu's repositories are lacking.
102 • RE: Re:Ubuntu, Kanotix, Penguin Italiano Anonimo (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-08 05:11:25 GMT from Italy)
"(Please don't take offense at my playfulness with your name. I meant to lighten things and hope it doesn't backfire.)"
Not at all. I find it very nice :)
103 • More about Ubuntu, Kanotix, Penguin Italiano Anonimo (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-08 05:44:51 GMT from Italy)
"I have tremendous respect for Kano, but I can't even imagine he can achieve in a few months what hundreds of Debian developers couldn't do given years, a distro with "no bugs". (Even Debian stable has bugs, just not release-critical ones.) But I imagine you mean he'll try to catch any showstopper bugs. I'm sure he'll do his best, but it's a daunting task. I don't envy him it."
Well, Kano has to deal only with a handful of packages. All he has to do is to use apt-listbugs and make sure that a release is reasonably free of showstoppers, to use your own words. It has always been his aim. Knoppix breaks because, by Kaus Knopper own admission, it is not meant for HD install. I don't know why Mepis does break: it is not my cup of tea, I am afraid, but again, Warren does warn you that Mepis is not 100% Debian compatible.
"But by the same token, it is entirely possible to use pinning to install select packages from sid. No dist-upgrade, but just a few packages. The same warnings apply. Still, I can't see why anyone should want to do that."
Well, except for Kanotix, I have also a Libranet 2.8.1 system, dist-upgraded and pinned to Sarge. But I have kernel 2.6.11 from Sid and KDE 3.4.1 from pkg-kde.alioth. I might also want to pick the latest clamav, firefox and so on.
So it does make a lot of sense to me.
I guess that Ubuntu *should* be Debian made easier for newbies, even if not all newbies seem happy with the experience and, after trying, move to something else.
104 • Mandriva and Lycoris (by fab on 2005-07-08 17:50:39 GMT from Germany)
"The ugly and at times unusable default desktop. Joe will need to merge technology such as My Linux System, the Network Browser, the Control Center the btX2 font rendering technology, and the AI2 application integration framework. In addition he will need to add the beautiful Lycoris artwork and desktop theme, as well as cleaning up the awful Mandriva menu structure. (As a side note, finally integrating My Linux System and the Network Browser with KDE, rather than having them as largely separate applications, would add significantly to the functionality of the system.)"
oh...oh... most mandriva users love the desktop-layout/design of le2005 and 10.1, so why should mandriva change that? lycoris is btw ugly imho.
and the menu-structure in mandriva is way better than a default-kde menu structure! and this is not only my impression. lots of users that own a mandriva-box use it because of these things that make it special.
105 • Per il mio buon amico, il penguin italiano anonimo (by gnobian_ken00bie on 2005-07-09 00:21:48 GMT from United States)
(with apologies for the fact that my Italian is obviously not as good as your English.)
I suspect you underestimate the challenge Kano will face. For example, one of the problems with the release of sarge was how frequently packages would move from unstable to testing to only then have their bugs identified! But actually, Kanotix may help with that by bringing sid - bugs and all - to a wider audience for scrutiny.
You're quite right about Knoppix. In fact Klaus has actively discouraged hard drive installation.
As I understand it, the difficulty with dist-upgrade using MEPIS is that Warren uses a custom kernel and his hardware detection and module loading scripts are tailored specifically to it. (I may well be mistaken. And like you, I haven't found MEPIS to be my thing.)
I think I was unclear about my point concerning dist-upgrade or pinning to Debian from Ubuntu. I completely understand why one would wish to pin to sid using sarge or Libranet. But I don't see the need to do so with Ubuntu, the reason being that it will work far better to use the breezy repositories (or whatever the current development branch is at a given time) and breezy has just about anything in sid and much from alioth and upstream besides.
I've actually looked a bit into the pinning to sid from hoary thing and it appears several people report successfully running mixed systems. There are conflicts here and there and dist-upgrade doesn't work, but overall, there seems to be satisfaction with that approach. Of course, I'm more the sort to have hoary on tty7 and sid on tty8 (running in a chroot on top of the Ubuntu kernel) rather than mixing my sources that way. It works for my short attention span to do things in that manner, but to each his or her own.
The one place I disagree with your post concerns Ubuntu's raison d'etre. Contrary to the bickering of some partisans on both sides, I really don't see any need for competition between Debian and Ubuntu - save perhaps the friendliest variety. But I also don't see Ubuntu serving only as a stepping stone into Debian, a "newbie friendly" Debian.
First of all, there are other distros that do that better.
Second, with the release of sarge, the need for any such thing has been greatly reduced.
Which is to say, I doubt that anyone who finds the sarge installer so hopelessly intimidating would find Ubuntu such a marked improvement. Such a one would be better of going with perhaps Linspire, Xandros, Libranet, or MEPIS. Or an rpm-based distro.
(Personally, I don't find the sarge installer difficult at all. And I never did. I don't think pasting a GUI on top of things and limiting options is such a great improvement. More recently, as I've installed Ubuntu and Debian on very old machines, I've come to love the freedom that text installers give. Many graphical installers couldn't even get going on these old boxes.)
The only advantages of Ubuntu over sarge specific to a newbie are at best debatable. Well-chosen defaults? Well, I like them but that's really a matter of taste. Well-chosen packages? That depends. It probably will make things a bit easier at first and one can always add more, but I don't know that most newbies would be so inimidated by finding menus with both GNOME and KDE apps and they would with sarge and tasksel for desktop. I could be wrong though. Up to date? Time will tell. Woody on the desktop didn't age well, because the GNU/Linux desktop has made such improvements in the last few years. But I don't know that sarge won't age quite a bit more gracefully.
So, what is the purpose of Ubuntu? I see two things, both of which benefit newbies but aren't specifically aimed at them.
First, Ubuntu combines an uptodate desktop with volunteer and professional support and security updates. And most importantly a predictable release and support life cycle. That's very important for businesses. And that's not Debian's target market. (If it even makes sense to speak of Debian as "marketed") Is Ubuntu competing with SUSE or RedHat? No, their real aim is in emerging markets in the developing world, small businesses in countries that can't really afford RedHat, SUSE, or Windows. As I see it, appealing to developers and home enthusiasts in the US and Europe is important to Ubuntu's development, but it's not really the primary goal. And appealing to newbies will help too of course, because if it's useful for newbies, it will be more useful to these businesses in the developing world. I don't really see this as being in competition with Debian at all in the long run.
Second, Ubuntu has a distinctive attitude. Now, again this is a matter of taste. Some may be really turned off by Ubuntu's ideals - or at least their way of promoting them. But for others, experienced and newbie alike, it's refreshing. Now, I don't mean to say that all other communities are rude and aggressive or that Ubuntu is all sweetness and light. But whether from sheer idealism or careful calculation, Mark has set a tone that permeates much of the community. Let me elaborate on why I think the Ubuntu concept is brilliant...
It's one thing to encourage good manners. It's another thing to pay people to be polite. But getting volunteers to be friendly and open when they may feel impatient or bored requires a change in mindset.
The ideals of Free Software really marry equally well with elitism and with egalitarianism. And naturally, they attract both mindsets. The brilliance of the Ubuntu concept is to wed a decidedly humanitarian, egalitarian, and communitarian ideal and wed it to the ideals of Free Software, so that for those volunteers drawn to the community, thinking about one reminds them of the other. Free Software and treating people of all levels of ability and experience go hand in hand. That's the message of Ubuntu and I admire it deeply... no less than I admire the (humanistic but not necessarily humanitarian) ideals of the Debian project.
(No, I'm not a hippie.)
Anyway, I've gone on long enough. Thank you for your own thoughtful replies.
106 • GeeXboX (by Soloact on 2005-07-09 03:39:09 GMT from United States)
*sings* Oh where, oh where, has GeeXboX gone? Oh where, oh where can it be?"
These guys seemed to be advancing at a pretty good rate, but seem to have been quiet for awhile. Sad, I like GeeXboX.
107 • I've got the same feeling (by AQ on 2005-07-09 03:49:50 GMT from United States)
about my beloved systemrescuecd. Seems to be a candidate for the Distrowatch morgue. Still very useful at this point, but not a bright future.
108 • Some news on Debian spin-offs (by gnobian_ken00bie on 2005-07-09 04:19:16 GMT from United States)
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1834942,00.asp
showing that it's a bit disingenuous for Ian Murdock to claim that his criticisms of Ubuntu couldn't possibly be sour grapes because Progeny is aiming at a different market.
109 • RE: Per il mio buon amico, il penguin italiano anonimo (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-09 06:14:16 GMT from Italy)
"(with apologies for the fact that my Italian is obviously not as good as your English.)"
Actually it is almost perfect. If I can friendly suggest that you replace "penguin" with "pinguino" :)
110 • "pinguino"... grazie (by gnobian_ken00bie on 2005-07-09 06:40:46 GMT from United States)
And I wanted to share some more news that serves to assuage some of the fears of those who worry Ubuntu might just disappear if Shuttleworth jumps ship
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/39286/index.html
The news about the longer support cycle for next year's release is also positive.
111 • More about: Per il mio buon amico, il penguin italiano anonimo (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-09 06:44:24 GMT from Italy)
"The one place I disagree with your post concerns Ubuntu's raison d'etre. Contrary to the bickering of some partisans on both sides, I really don't see any need for competition between Debian and Ubuntu - save perhaps the friendliest variety. But I also don't see Ubuntu serving only as a stepping stone into Debian, a "newbie friendly" Debian."
Well, mine was only an educated guess of what, among others, could be "Ubuntu's raison d'etre"
I believe your analysis is a lot deeper and more complete (than mine): the business aim of Ubuntu is very believable.
Sorry if I don't go into many further details: in all honesty I don't have very much to add :)
112 • RE: "pinguino"... grazie (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-07-09 06:49:38 GMT from Italy)
"And I wanted to share some more news that serves to assuage some of the fears of those who worry Ubuntu might just disappear if Shuttleworth jumps ship
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/39286/index.html "
Yes, I read that at OSNews last night (it is here almost 9:00 AM)
Thanks
113 • SuSE 9.3 (by 33_hertz on 2005-07-09 18:16:14 GMT from United Kingdom)
First, let me say Distrowatch is a great resource for us. I bought the retail SuSE 9.3 box and was mightily impressed how painless an install it was on my Sony laptop. I know what you mean about the servers having a hard time because I tried to download some packages from the server via YaST this week and was unsuccessful.( I just want to put my DVD back in the case )
Oh well, I'll just have to be patient.
Thanks for a great site. :)
114 • SUSE 9.3 (by Gustav Eiffel on 2005-07-11 19:49:03 GMT from United States)
Hello:
I have used and really liked SuSE for several years. (Since 7.3 I believe).
SuSE 9.2 was an excellent vintage, possibly the best: stable, everything worked.
SuSE 9.3 has been a disappointment... and I stopped using it after 2 months of struggle, and several reinstalls.
SuSE 9.3 unlike its predecessors seems only marketing driven... and not in the best sense: the gadgets level went up, with lots of ugly screens (not a big ussue)/
The previous high level of quality of SuSE's products just does not seem to be there anymore: too many bugs, unstability, and a lot of what worked perfectly with previous versions, just does not work anymore (example: my Logitech marble USB trackball).
The detection and install of ethernet is also unstable and stopped working several times.
The support for new files systems and Hardware (llike UDF, and DVD-RAM, XFS) already available on other distros, does not seem to be there... or well supported. To me a real issue.
In conclusion, I expected 9.3 to be a newer, better of 9.2, but it is only a newer, blootier... and buggyer version of 9.2, and this is a shame.
I would suggest that the Novell marketing people get out of the way, and let the obviously very competent original SusE team work on newer, better, versions, fully tested, at least with very common hardware.
I hope the next version will be done better, will be well tested, and I will give it a shoot.
By the way: publishing a list of the test procedures would be great.
If it is good, stable, clean, sober then I will come back to SuSe Linux, else, I will continue with the alternative solution that I am using now: a bit less fancy, a bit less user's friendly, but a lot more stable, and much less buggy. And no: I will not mention it: noo need, no use, my only purpose here is only to bring in SuSe what I really loved, not to advertise another distro.
G.E
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Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
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| Archives |
| • Ussye 1118 (2025-04-21): Fedora 42, strange characters in Vim, Nitrux introduces new package tools, Fedora extends reproducibility efforts, PINE64 updates multiple devices running Debian |
| • Issue 1117 (2025-04-14): Shebang 25.0, EndeavourOS 2025.03.19, running applications from other distros on the desktop, Debian gets APT upgrade, Mint introduces OEM options for LMDE, postmarketOS packages GNOME 48 and COSMIC, Redox testing USB support |
| • Issue 1116 (2025-04-07): The Sense HAT, Android and mobile operating systems, FreeBSD improves on laptops, openSUSE publishes many new updates, Fedora appoints new Project Leader, UBports testing VoLTE |
| • Issue 1115 (2025-03-31): GrapheneOS 2025, the rise of portable package formats, MidnightBSD and openSUSE experiment with new package management features, Plank dock reborn, key infrastructure projects lose funding, postmarketOS to focus on reliability |
| • Issue 1114 (2025-03-24): Bazzite 41, checking which processes are writing to disk, Rocky unveils new Hardened branch, GNOME 48 released, generating images for the Raspberry Pi |
| • Issue 1113 (2025-03-17): MocaccinoOS 1.8.1, how to contribute to open source, Murena extends on-line installer, Garuda tests COSMIC edition, Ubuntu to replace coreutils with Rust alternatives, Chimera Linux drops RISC-V builds |
| • Issue 1112 (2025-03-10): Solus 4.7, distros which work with Secure Boot, UBports publishes bug fix, postmarketOS considers a new name, Debian running on Android |
| • Issue 1111 (2025-03-03): Orbitiny 0.01, the effect of Ubuntu Core Desktop, Gentoo offers disk images, elementary OS invites feature ideas, FreeBSD starts PinePhone Pro port, Mint warns of upcoming Firefox issue |
| • Issue 1110 (2025-02-24): iodeOS 6.0, learning to program, Arch retiring old repositories, openSUSE makes progress on reproducible builds, Fedora is getting more serious about open hardware, Tails changes its install instructions to offer better privacy, Murena's de-Googled tablet goes on sale |
| • Issue 1109 (2025-02-17): Rhino Linux 2025.1, MX Linux 23.5 with Xfce 4.20, replacing X.Org tools with Wayland tools, GhostBSD moving its base to FreeBSD -RELEASE, Redox stabilizes its ABI, UBports testing 24.04, Asahi changing its leadership, OBS in dispute with Fedora |
| • Issue 1108 (2025-02-10): Serpent OS 0.24.6, Aurora, sharing swap between distros, Peppermint tries Void base, GTK removinglegacy technologies, Red Hat plans more AI tools for Fedora, TrueNAS merges its editions |
| • Issue 1107 (2025-02-03): siduction 2024.1.0, timing tasks, Lomiri ported to postmarketOS, Alpine joins Open Collective, a new desktop for Linux called Orbitiny |
| • Issue 1106 (2025-01-27): Adelie Linux 1.0 Beta 6, Pop!_OS 24.04 Alpha 5, detecting whether a process is inside a virtual machine, drawing graphics to NetBSD terminal, Nix ported to FreeBSD, GhostBSD hosting desktop conference |
| • Issue 1105 (2025-01-20): CentOS 10 Stream, old Flatpak bundles in software centres, Haiku ports Iceweasel, Oracle shows off debugging tools, rsync vulnerability patched |
| • Issue 1104 (2025-01-13): DAT Linux 2.0, Silly things to do with a minimal computer, Budgie prepares Wayland only releases, SteamOS coming to third-party devices, Murena upgrades its base |
| • Issue 1103 (2025-01-06): elementary OS 8.0, filtering ads with Pi-hole, Debian testing its installer, Pop!_OS faces delays, Ubuntu Studio upgrades not working, Absolute discontinued |
| • Issue 1102 (2024-12-23): Best distros of 2024, changing a process name, Fedora to expand Btrfs support and releases Asahi Remix 41, openSUSE patches out security sandbox and donations from Bottles while ending support for Leap 15.5 |
| • Issue 1101 (2024-12-16): GhostBSD 24.10.1, sending attachments from the command line, openSUSE shows off GPU assignment tool, UBports publishes security update, Murena launches its first tablet, Xfce 4.20 released |
| • Issue 1100 (2024-12-09): Oreon 9.3, differences in speed, IPFire's new appliance, Fedora Asahi Remix gets new video drivers, openSUSE Leap Micro updated, Redox OS running Redox OS |
| • Issue 1099 (2024-12-02): AnduinOS 1.0.1, measuring RAM usage, SUSE continues rebranding efforts, UBports prepares for next major version, Murena offering non-NFC phone |
| • Issue 1098 (2024-11-25): Linux Lite 7.2, backing up specific folders, Murena and Fairphone partner in fair trade deal, Arch installer gets new text interface, Ubuntu security tool patched |
| • Issue 1097 (2024-11-18): Chimera Linux vs Chimera OS, choosing between AlmaLinux and Debian, Fedora elevates KDE spin to an edition, Fedora previews new installer, KDE testing its own distro, Qubes-style isolation coming to FreeBSD |
| • Issue 1096 (2024-11-11): Bazzite 40, Playtron OS Alpha 1, Tucana Linux 3.1, detecting Screen sessions, Redox imports COSMIC software centre, FreeBSD booting on the PinePhone Pro, LXQt supports Wayland window managers |
| • Issue 1095 (2024-11-04): Fedora 41 Kinoite, transferring applications between computers, openSUSE Tumbleweed receives multiple upgrades, Ubuntu testing compiler optimizations, Mint partners with Framework |
| • Issue 1094 (2024-10-28): DebLight OS 1, backing up crontab, AlmaLinux introduces Litten branch, openSUSE unveils refreshed look, Ubuntu turns 20
| | • Issue 1093 (2024-10-21): Kubuntu 24.10, atomic vs immutable distributions, Debian upgrading Perl packages, UBports adding VoLTE support, Android to gain native GNU/Linux application support |
| • Issue 1092 (2024-10-14): FunOS 24.04.1, a home directory inside a file, work starts of openSUSE Leap 16.0, improvements in Haiku, KDE neon upgrades its base |
| • Issue 1091 (2024-10-07): Redox OS 0.9.0, Unified package management vs universal package formats, Redox begins RISC-V port, Mint polishes interface, Qubes certifies new laptop |
| • Issue 1090 (2024-09-30): Rhino Linux 2024.2, commercial distros with alternative desktops, Valve seeks to improve Wayland performance, HardenedBSD parterns with Protectli, Tails merges with Tor Project, Quantum Leap partners with the FreeBSD Foundation |
| • Issue 1089 (2024-09-23): Expirion 6.0, openKylin 2.0, managing configuration files, the future of Linux development, fixing bugs in Haiku, Slackware packages dracut |
| • Issue 1088 (2024-09-16): PorteuX 1.6, migrating from Windows 10 to which Linux distro, making NetBSD immutable, AlmaLinux offers hardware certification, Mint updates old APT tools |
| • Issue 1087 (2024-09-09): COSMIC desktop, running cron jobs at variable times, UBports highlights new apps, HardenedBSD offers work around for FreeBSD change, Debian considers how to cull old packages, systemd ported to musl |
| • Issue 1086 (2024-09-02): Vanilla OS 2, command line tips for simple tasks, FreeBSD receives investment from STF, openSUSE Tumbleweed update can break network connections, Debian refreshes media |
| • Issue 1085 (2024-08-26): Nobara 40, OpenMandriva 24.07 "ROME", distros which include source code, FreeBSD publishes quarterly report, Microsoft updates breaks Linux in dual-boot environments |
| • Issue 1084 (2024-08-19): Liya 2.0, dual boot with encryption, Haiku introduces performance improvements, Gentoo dropping IA-64, Redcore merges major upgrade |
| • Issue 1083 (2024-08-12): TrueNAS 24.04.2 "SCALE", Linux distros for smartphones, Redox OS introduces web server, PipeWire exposes battery drain on Linux, Canonical updates kernel version policy |
| • Issue 1082 (2024-08-05): Linux Mint 22, taking snapshots of UFS on FreeBSD, openSUSE updates Tumbleweed and Aeon, Debian creates Tiny QA Tasks, Manjaro testing immutable images |
| • Issue 1081 (2024-07-29): SysLinuxOS 12.4, OpenBSD gain hardware acceleration, Slackware changes kernel naming, Mint publishes upgrade instructions |
| • Issue 1080 (2024-07-22): Running GNU/Linux on Android with Andronix, protecting network services, Solus dropping AppArmor and Snap, openSUSE Aeon Desktop gaining full disk encryption, SUSE asks openSUSE to change its branding |
| • Issue 1079 (2024-07-15): Ubuntu Core 24, hiding files on Linux, Fedora dropping X11 packages on Workstation, Red Hat phasing out GRUB, new OpenSSH vulnerability, FreeBSD speeds up release cycle, UBports testing new first-run wizard |
| • Issue 1078 (2024-07-08): Changing init software, server machines running desktop environments, OpenSSH vulnerability patched, Peppermint launches new edition, HardenedBSD updates ports |
| • Issue 1077 (2024-07-01): The Unity and Lomiri interfaces, different distros for different tasks, Ubuntu plans to run Wayland on NVIDIA cards, openSUSE updates Leap Micro, Debian releases refreshed media, UBports gaining contact synchronisation, FreeDOS celebrates its 30th anniversary |
| • Issue 1076 (2024-06-24): openSUSE 15.6, what makes Linux unique, SUSE Liberty Linux to support CentOS Linux 7, SLE receives 19 years of support, openSUSE testing Leap Micro edition |
| • Issue 1075 (2024-06-17): Redox OS, X11 and Wayland on the BSDs, AlmaLinux releases Pi build, Canonical announces RISC-V laptop with Ubuntu, key changes in systemd |
| • Issue 1074 (2024-06-10): Endless OS 6.0.0, distros with init diversity, Mint to filter unverified Flatpaks, Debian adds systemd-boot options, Redox adopts COSMIC desktop, OpenSSH gains new security features |
| • Issue 1073 (2024-06-03): LXQt 2.0.0, an overview of Linux desktop environments, Canonical partners with Milk-V, openSUSE introduces new features in Aeon Desktop, Fedora mirrors see rise in traffic, Wayland adds OpenBSD support |
| • Issue 1072 (2024-05-27): Manjaro 24.0, comparing init software, OpenBSD ports Plasma 6, Arch community debates mirror requirements, ThinOS to upgrade its FreeBSD core |
| • Issue 1071 (2024-05-20): Archcraft 2024.04.06, common command line mistakes, ReactOS imports WINE improvements, Haiku makes adjusting themes easier, NetBSD takes a stand against code generated by chatbots |
| • Issue 1070 (2024-05-13): Damn Small Linux 2024, hiding kernel messages during boot, Red Hat offers AI edition, new web browser for UBports, Fedora Asahi Remix 40 released, Qubes extends support for version 4.1 |
| • Issue 1069 (2024-05-06): Ubuntu 24.04, installing packages in alternative locations, systemd creates sudo alternative, Mint encourages XApps collaboration, FreeBSD publishes quarterly update |
| • Issue 1068 (2024-04-29): Fedora 40, transforming one distro into another, Debian elects new Project Leader, Red Hat extends support cycle, Emmabuntus adds accessibility features, Canonical's new security features |
| • Issue 1067 (2024-04-22): LocalSend for transferring files, detecting supported CPU architecure levels, new visual design for APT, Fedora and openSUSE working on reproducible builds, LXQt released, AlmaLinux re-adds hardware support |
| • Full list of all issues |
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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| Random Distribution | 
Linux Caixa Mágica
Caixa Mágica was a Portuguese Linux distribution for desktops and servers. The project's early versions were based on SUSE Linux and later on Mandriva Linux, but starting from version 16 Caixa Mágica was built from Ubuntu. It features the GNOME desktop environment.
Status: Discontinued
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| TUXEDO |
TUXEDO Computers - Linux Hardware in a tailor made suite
Choose from a wide range of laptops and PCs in various sizes and shapes at TUXEDOComputers.com. Every machine comes pre-installed and ready-to-run with Linux. Full 24 months of warranty and lifetime support included!
Learn more about our full service package and all benefits from buying at TUXEDO.
|
| Star Labs |
Star Labs - Laptops built for Linux.
View our range including the highly anticipated StarFighter. Available with coreboot open-source firmware and a choice of Ubuntu, elementary, Manjaro and more. Visit Star Labs for information, to buy and get support.
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