 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 89, 28 February 2005 |
Welcome to this year's 9th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! In this week's issue we will take a look at Fedora Core 4 which, despite its delay, is not doubt going to be an exciting release with many new features. Mandrakesoft and Conectiva announced a surprise merger last week, but don't expect their products to merge too, at least not in the short term. And those who are thinking about buying the recently released Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 can now sign up for a 30-day evaluation period at no cost. Many more topics are covered in this issue, so without further ado: happy reading!
Content:
- News: Fedora 4 updates, RHEL product evaluation, Mandrakesoft and Conectiva, FreeBSD vs NetBSD, Sun lays off programmers
- Looking ahead: KDE 3.4
- Released last week
- Release delays: Mandrakelinux 10.2, Fedora 4 and Debian 3.1
- Upcoming releases: Gobolinux 012, Turkix 3.0, Gentoo Linux 2005, Linspire 5.0
- New distribution additions: Mockup, Mutagenix
- New on the waiting list: AliXe, Foresight Linux, SUT-Linux
Fedora 4 updates, RHEL product evaluation, Mandrakesoft and Conectiva, FreeBSD vs NetBSD, Sun lays off programmers
 Although the release of Fedora Core 4 Test1 has been delayed yet again, the Fedora developers are not idling, on the contrary, they are busy finalising the feature list for the new version and discussing issues affecting the distribution. What can we look forward to in FC4? Many exciting new features, including GCC 4 (if ready), the usual package updates (GNOME 2.10, KDE 3.4, X.Org 6.8.2, and maybe even OpenOffice.org 2.0), Xen and virtualisation, faster boot, Java, a graphical front-end for yum, and support for Apple hardware, inclusive of the new Mac mini. On the negative side, the distribution has become too large to fit on four CDs and a decision was taken to remove some packages from Fedora Core 4. Not everybody will be pleased and the decision to leave out such long-standing open source applications such as GNOME Office (AbiWord and Gnumeric), KOffice, Exim, Sylpheed, Tux Racer, and XEmacs will surely arouse some protests in the Fedora user community. As always, it is very hard to please everybody.
* * * * *
 OSNews reports that a trial edition of Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) 4 is now available for free download. That's after registering for a Red Hat Networks account and completing a brief survey: "With the launch of Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4, we want to give you the opportunity to try the latest release of Red Hat's market-leading Linux technology. For a limited time, you can download a free 30-day subscription to the Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 product of your choice (AS, ES, WS, or Desktop)." Find out more information about these products on the RHEL Evaluation page.
* * * * *
 The widely reported announcement last week about the merger of Mandrakesoft with Conectiva came as a surprise to many. However, according to Jacques Rosenzvaig, the CEO at Conectiva, it is unlikely that users and customers of either of the two products will be affected by profound changes in the near future. Although the two Linux distribution makers have agreed on setting some common goals and share development effort, they intend to retain their distinctive brand names and qualities, and simply co-exist in a "federation" of Linux companies with a large degree of "autonomy" for each of the companies participating in the merger. Nevertheless, in order to consolidate the resources, there might be a convergence of some of the two companies' products into one, with a distinct name that will be decided upon in a month or two from now. If you understand Portuguese, you can find out more details in this news item, as posted at CIPSGA.
* * * * *
 Following several high-profile NetBSD articles, reviews and interviews, and its comparison to FreeBSD (see NetBSD vs FreeBSD: ready for prime time? and NetBSD 2.0 Rendezvous), a war of words has erupted between the two camps. Scott Long of FreeBSD has written an article entitled The case for FreeBSD, in which he accuses NetBSD advocates of making false claims when comparing the two BSDs: "The NetBSD advocates are quick to claim that NetBSD 2.0 now beats FreeBSD in both performance and features. Fortunately, that just is not true. There is a very long list of reasons why FreeBSD is an excellent operating system and an ideal choice for the enterprise and the desktop." This is a good technical overview of some of the recently introduced features and improvement in FreeBSD; definitely worth a read.
* * * * *
 Sun Microsystems has been laying off developers of both Solaris and Sun Java Desktop System (JDS). That's according to The Register and its undisclosed sources: "Sources have informed The Register that a larger number of staffers in Sun's operating platforms group have been shown the door. Many of these workers had been cranking away on new versions of Solaris and the Java Desktop System - Sun's version of Linux. With that work mostly completed, the staffers became expendable to Sun. This looks like the tail-end of a long round of layoffs, which started last year and claimed more than 3,000 jobs." Does this mean that the release of Sun JDS version 3 is imminent? And more importantly, will there be any more Solaris and JDS releases in the future?
Looking ahead: KDE 3.4
The first release candidate of KDE 3.4 was made available last week. For the impatient among us, the easiest way to try it out is by downloading Klax, a SLAX-based live CD that includes the above mentioned development version of KDE 3.4: "Klax is an i486 GNU/Linux live CD, very similar to SLAX because it's created with the same Linux Live scripts, but based on newer Slackware Linux 10.1 and containing KDE 3.4 Release Candidate 1 (which already identifies as final release)." For download links and other information please visit the Klax home page. The final release of KDE 3.4 is expected on 16 March 2005.
Klax Live CD - the latest version of the SLAX-based live CD comes with the first release candidate of KDE 3.4
(full image size: 287kB)
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| Released Last Week |
Puppy Linux 0.9.9
Puppy Linux 0.9.9 is out: "Puppy version 0.9.9 is released. There are now three live CD flavours to choose from - the live CD ISO file with Firefox, with the full Mozilla suite, and with Opera. Release notes: Puppy live CDs are now built from Puppy Unleashed, which is a collection of packages and a build script. Unleashed is a separate product and is announced below. The Mozilla flavour of Puppy is version 1.7.5 and is the full suite, including Composer HTML editor, Calendar, Addressbook, and Mail & News. The Macromedia Flash player is also included in the ISO (note, the other flavours require the Flash player to be downloaded separately). Puppy now has his very own Wiki, called DidiWiki, with inbuilt HTTP server." Find more details on the distribution's news page.
VectorLinux 5.0 SOHO Edition
The release of VectorLinux 5.0 SOHO edition is now official: "The Vector Linux crew is pleased to announce the release of VectorLinux SOHO v5.0 - a very feature-rich, full-sized Linux distribution. VL Soho 5.0 is based on the recently released Slackware 10.1. This means a very fine-tuned distro with Slackware's rock-solid base and the most up to date stable packages available. Some of the bundled applications are: KDE 3.3.2 and IceWM 1.2.13 as window managers. For a complete web experience you will find Firefox 1.0 with pre-configured MPlayer, Flash, and Java plugins, plus Gaim 1.1.2, gFTP, Kasablanca, and Sylpheed. OpenOffice 1.1.4, Abiword, Kontact, KMyMoney, GnuCash and QHAcc in the productivity department...." The release announcement.
Linux+ Live 2.04
Linux+ Live is a live DVD based on Aurox Linux. A new version was announced yesterday: "A new version of Linux+ Live, Aurox Linux based distribution with KDE and security tools has been released. This version contains some security tools (Ethereal, Ettercap, NMap, Airsnort) described in the January edition of Linux+ and Linux+ DVD magazines. Have fun!" The release announcement, together with some basic information about the product, can be found on the distribution's news page.
INSERT 1.2.18
A new version of INSERT (Inside Security Rescue Toolkit) has been released. From the changelog: "INSERT now comes with a rather simple script (usb-install) to prepare a USB stick and install onto it. It hopefully will boot on most USB-boot-capable systems since it uses GRUB as the boot loader (very flexible). INSERT should now be usable by blind people. Given the boot option 'blind' the control program for braille terminals is started instead of X. Among the updated packages are: avscan, bash_completion, bashburn, cdrecord.... Some tools were added: calcoo (desktop calculator), fsck.reiserfs and debugreiserfs...."
BioBrew Linux 3.1
BioBrew Linux is an open source Linux distribution based on Red Hat Linux and the NPACI Rocks cluster software and enhanced for bioinformaticists and life scientists. A new release, version 3.1, is out: "BioBrew 3.1 for x86 is here. BioBrew is an open source Linux cluster distribution based on the popular Rocks cluster software and enhanced for bioinformatics. BioBrew includes popular cluster software e.g. MPICH, PVM, Modules, PVFS, MyrinetGM, Sun Grid Engine, gcc, Ganglia, and Globus, *and* popular bioinformatics software e.g. the NCBI toolkit, BLAST, mpiBLAST, HMMER, ClustalW, GROMACS, PHYLIP, WISE, FASTA, MrBayes, and EMBOSS. A BioBrew DVD ISO for x86 is freely available for download at BioBrew.org, a Bioinformatics.org sponsored and hosted website." The full release announcement.
Hiweed Desktop 0.6
Hiweed Desktop 0.6 has been released. The most important changes since the last release candidate include the following: "Several bugs were fixed; the default locale (the LANG environment variable) was set to 'C' under the console and to 'zh_CN.UTF-8' under X; the system now boots into a resolution of 1024x768. The MPlayer and Win32 codecs packages were updated to new versions." Read the rest of the release announcement (in Chinese) for more details.
Lineox Enterprise Linux 4.0
Lineox Enterprise Linux 4.0 is the first distribution release built from source RPMs for the recently released Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4: "Lineox has released today Lineox Enterprise Linux 4.0. Lineox has replaced some graphics files and changed or replaced some other files mainly because of trademark issues while retaining full compatibility. This release includes also updated packages. Lineox expects to release the x86_64 version next week." More details in the release announcement.
SimplyMEPIS 3.3
SimplyMEPIS 3.3 has arrived: "MEPIS has begun shipping the SimplyMEPIS 3.3 bootable CD. SimplyMEPIS offers a Linux that is easy to install and use. It should appeal to the beginner and expert alike. ... By popular demand, the Synaptic package manager is now recommended for new users. Also new in 3.3, SimplyMEPIS has introduced a GUI based boot screen and an improved installer that supports more hard drive configurations. And it gives the user the choice of a 2.4.29 kernel and/or a 2.6.10. Also the NVIDIA or the fglrx/ATI display driver can be chosen during installation to replace the default display driver. The SimplyMEPIS bootable CD allows potential users to verify hardware compatibility, test drive applications, and determine the value of SimplyMEPIS before making a commitment to install it on their hard drive." This is the full press release.
SimplyMEPIS 3.3 - one of the best distributions for novice Linux users
(full image size: 254kB)
SAM Mini Live Linux 2005-1SE
A bug-fix update to SAM Mini Live Linux 2005-1 has been released: "Shortly after the SAM-2005-1 release, here is a bug-fix release, again with support for UnionFS. Init scripts, sound scripts, udev are updated to their newest versions available in the Cooker. The kernel is changed to 2.6.10oci. Sound cards should be detected properly now and XFce-mixer does not blow up the xsession-errors file any more because of the updated XFce and XFce plugins. Also updated GIMP, Gaim and Skype and much more." The release announcement.
Feather Linux 0.7.4
A new version of Feather Linux is out. From the changelog: "Added Rhapsody, didiwiki, xfsprogs, torsmo, gnupod and GRUB; added several Perl modules, including GTK2-Perl; replaced Thunderbird with Sylpheed; replaced zile and nvi with vim; replaced emelfm2 with emelfm; removed Ruby due to space constraints; removed XPaint due to lack of usefulness; updated several packages, including Dillo, MPlayer, ALSA and libc6; updated tmsnc to 0.2.0b; made some small changes to the hard disk install script; made some small changes to rm-dpkg; made Kismet configuration files writable from CD; added a new experimental hard disk install script (based on knoppix-installer by Fabian Franz)."
Development and unannounced releases
Shabdix 0.9 - Configuring the KDE desktop in Farsi
(full image size: 297kB)
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
More delays for Mandrakelinux 10.2
The release schedule for Mandrakelinux 10.2 has been updated. The first beta release of Mandrakelinux 10.2 for x86_64 was scheduled for yesterday (28 February), but it slipped, together with the release of Mandrakelinux 10.2 for x86. Mandrakelinux 10.2 "Community" is now expected on 1 April and Mandrakelinux 10.2 "Official" on 30 April. Read more on the schedule estimation page.
More delays for Fedora Core 4
Those of you anticipating the release of Fedora Core 4 Test1 will be once again disappointed to learn that it has been postponed, again. This time, the expected release has been re-scheduled to 14 March, and the final release to 6 June. Find out more on the Fedora Core 4 release schedule page.
Debian release update
Still on the subject of postponed releases, the developers of Debian GNU/Linux have issued a release update. A third release candidate of the Debian Installer is now scheduled for 23 March, which means that the full release of Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 "Sarge" won't happen before April, at the earliest. The details of the current status of Debian Sarge can be found in this mailing list post.
GoboLinux 012
The developers of GoboLinux have also announced a delay in the expected release of GoboLinux 0.12: "We will prepare a new beta release (012beta2) before starting to prepare release candidates. This way, GoboLinux 012 final will not be released before March (as announced initially) but in later March." More information in this mailing list message.
Turkix 3.0 Alpha
The developers of the Mandrakelinux-based Turkix project have announced plans to release an alpha version of Turkix 3.0 later this week. Unlike the previous versions, which only supported the Turkish language, version 3.0 will support many other languages: "The very first international release of Turkix, 10.0 alpha 'Bonjour' will be released next week. 'Bonjour' should be considered as an alpha work, however we are getting closer to the final stable international release - 10.0 'Divinity'." This is the announcement.
Miscellaneous release updates: Ubuntu 5.04, Gentoo 2005.0, Linspire 5.0
Several readers have commented about some missing distributions from the list of upcoming releases below. Ubuntu has a fixed 6-month release schedule, so its next release, version 5.04, is scheduled for April 2005. Gentoo Linux provides a Release Engineering page with scheduled upcoming releases; according to that page, Gentoo Linux 2005.0 will be released in February 2005 (they are running out of time) and 2005.1 is scheduled for July 2005. Finally, according to this video from the recent Desktop Linux Summit, Linspire 5.0 will be released during March 2005. The summary of expected releases has been updated to include these three distributions.
* * * * *
Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Web Site News |
New distributions database
Following the feedback and suggestions concerning our new Distribution Search Database, there will be further changes and improvements to the existing setup. A processor architecture column will be added this week. Furthermore, the package search feature will be integrated into the database, so you will be able to search for a distribution that fulfills certain criteria, and includes a certain package or a certain version of a package. A sorting feature will also be added so that you can have the results of your search displayed in your preferred order (alphabetically, by distribution name, or perhaps by architecture). If all goes well, you should be able to see a much more useful distribution database by the end of this week! As always, keep your suggestions coming!
New distributions addition
- Mockup. Mockup is a desktop operating system, based on the Morphix live CD. The project's goal is to create an Open Source operating system that is easy to use - a live CD which can be installed on a hard disk. The desktop environment is based on new and exciting technology, such as udev, hotplug and HAL for hardware detection and automatic device files creation. The whole desktop is written using Trolltech's Qt 4 with both vector and bitmap graphics, with antialiasing. Where supported by the hardware, translucency and drop shadows are also provided for interesting effects.
- Mutagenix. Mutagenix is a Linux live CD based on Slackware Linux and Linux-Live live CD build scripts. Editions available include KDE and Dropline GNOME.
New on the waiting list
- AliXe. AliXe is a French Canadian distribution, the objective of which is to promote the use of Linux in Quebec. It is a live CD based on Knoppix.
- Foresight Linux. Foresight Linux is a distribution based on Specifix Linux (and its Conary package management), which showcases the latest and greatest from the GNOME project. Some of the more innovative things are included, like beagle, howl, and the latest hal. All of this, plus some nice, clean default themes and artwork.
- SUT-Linux. SUT-Linux is a new Thai Linux distribution based on LinuxTLE.
DistroWatch database summary
- Number of Linux distributions in the database: 389
- Number of BSD distributions in the database: 9
- Number of discontinued distributions: 49
- Number of distributions on the waiting list: 92
That's all for today. See you all next week!
Ladislav Bodnar
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • MEPIS 3.3 (by Tux on 2005-02-28 10:26:40 GMT from United States)
I upgraded from MEPIS 2004.6 to 3.3 last night. This is a very nice looking distro and will now become the one I hand out to Windows users that express an interest in Linux. Excellent. :-)
2 • VectorLinux 5.0 SOHO (by amarui on 2005-02-28 10:32:52 GMT from Romania)
Great. I just instaled it. Anyone knows when the standard edition will be released? SOHO (KDE) requires too many resources.
3 • Languages and JustWorksNix (by Visible User on 2005-02-28 10:39:56 GMT from Canada)
A wish for the search features for distributions: Supported Languages information for are non-english friends. Maybe it is too much to ask.
Well we seem to be getting closer and closer to something I can install, and it just works. With sane defaults (minus lossing features or stability) more people will switch.
What is up with Simply Mepis 3.3, Mandrake >10, PCLinuxOS >p5, even Kanotix 2005.1 getting more and more unstable. It is really sad to see new users leave because they heard about an easy to use distribution, only to find out it has bugs. I can't even get a lot of new distributions to run without hanging. I have a few systems to test on even. I am very surprised when people will praise them in reviews even when they have major flaws in there non beta releases. Thankfully not all is lost. There are the old ones like slack and debian that while may take long to learn, will work when you know them. (If only they made it easy so anyone could use them.) Why does Linspire only rate 24 when it is so friendly? Man I wish Xandros was more open source; I believe people would still buy it; I could buy it too then; how is it so different then windows, just think - they don't give code back to the community - sure free beer but no code.
Sorry about the running on. I must add one more thing; it is very interesting about Red Hat offering a trial.
Thank you for the useful site.
4 • Mepis 3.3 (by Marc on 2005-02-28 11:07:29 GMT from Canada)
I m very disapointed about the new Mepis 3.3 ...
It take years to load and does not detect all my stuff.
Tell me why Mepis 2004.06 was doing all the work
and as we progress in, the distro detect less and take
more time to boot.
I switch from Mepis to Arch just because of this,
speed and hardware detect.
Arch is way fast to boot and work, and once you detected
your hardware you dont need to do that every boot.
About the language option in the distro data base i too would
like to see it as a search criteria. Even if the installation language
could be english what interest you is the final desktop choice
you have.
Thank you Lad and keep the good work !!!
5 • Fedora and others (by Andrew on 2005-02-28 11:44:46 GMT from Canada)
Dropping abiword and gnumeric from Fedora Core 4 is a bad idea. The first is a good and light alternative to OpenOffice Writer. The second is one way out of MS Excel.
I hope the Java Desktop System won't become yet another CDE : an outdated and despised desktop environment that customers use for lack of a better choice.
BSD users have always laughed at bickering linux fans. Well, it seems that they're starting to lose their composure too. Small fish arguing in a pond (BSD and linux) while orcas (Windows 9x -> 2003) wreak havoc in the ocean. It doesn't look good.
Instead of releasing Sarge, the Debian Project gives us the third release candidate of the Installer : they must be kidding. Have they decided to release Sarge the same day as Windows Longhorn ?
6 • Vector (by tdjokic on 2005-02-28 12:03:06 GMT from Yugoslavia)
@amarui: you can use IceWM insted of KDE I think...
7 • Software Freedom (by Anonymous on 2005-02-28 13:22:13 GMT from United States)
I think distros that provide (as part of the distro developed
software itself, as distinguished from those that include
proprietary drivers)
unfree software should be identified. I believe
Mepis and Xandros fall into this category.
8 • Mepis 3.3 is not all that great (by Anonymous on 2005-02-28 13:37:12 GMT from Malaysia)
hardware detection is not as excellent as it sounds
pcmcia wifi card gives me kernel panic
doesn't work properly on 15" monitors
graphic driver not smart enough to detect the exact model
...with that i think it is still not 100% ready for novice users... as they wouldn't be able to see the desktop at all unless doing some tweaking...
say, no problem for some of the lucky users... some will get confused with the menu 'All Applications'. Normally, it would be the first menu that users would normally browse (as it is on top), and that would confused 1st time users... duplicates and unsorted. It should be hidden/removed.
9 • New version dissappointments and a success (by mdl on 2005-02-28 13:54:40 GMT from United States)
Tried a couple of new versions last weekend:
Mepis 3.3: Still has issues with detection of my video card/monitor.
pclinuxos .81a: Wow...big step backwards (for me). I was impressed with earlier versions, but .81a took 30 minutes to reach a login screen as a livecd, then failed.
Kanotix 2005-01: Tried it when it first came out. Very nice and has been perfect (for me) so far. Detected all my hardware and is very stable. Kanotix is my new base system.
10 • hardware detection (by manchine on 2005-02-28 14:05:48 GMT from Poland)
Just a line on the everlasting complaints about HW detection. Most linux distros out there make a superb job in detecting non-standard devices conceived to work "flawlessly" under a certain widely used OS we all know of.
More. Reverse engeneering property drivers is a stunning task that deserves our full recognition and thankfulness.
End users must keep in mind that most manufacturers simply do not release any source code along with their win32 drivers.
The leading user-friendly distros, remarkably MEPIS, though not perfect, perform absolute miracles considering the lack of specifications about "cutting-edge" devices.
We must put pressure government attorneys to pass law enforcements on OEM's about OS compatibility.
A device made for a x86 architecture SHOULD BE EQUALY SUPPORTED under the major OS families.
Once again, my most sincere congratulations to all developers who voluntarily spend their best effort in troubleshooting every new fashionable teen headache, wether it is an i-pod or a weired wireless chipset.
To those outcrying all the time about automagical HW detection: more action, less tears. Keep it simple, keep it standard.
Manchine.
11 • Vector (by Anonymous on 2005-02-28 14:06:13 GMT from Australia)
Use vlapt to install fluxbox and never look back
12 • New Distributions (by Joe on 2005-02-28 14:11:44 GMT from Malaysia)
One of my favourite sections of Distrowatch Weekly has always been the new distributions on the waiting list section. However, of late it seems that these new distributions are just becoming monotonous, with only slight variations between them. I would love to see the new distributions trying something adventurous, something like a complete PVR for example (there were a couple of distros attempting this, but it seems like they just died quiet deaths). Anything instead of a rehash of the "same old same old". And before somebody else says it, I don't know how to build my own distro, wish I did but I don't.
Ladislav, love where the distro database search is going. Can't wait to see the final product.
Joe
13 • Mepis HW detection (by Jared from Utah at 2005-02-28 15:32:09 GMT from United States)
I think Mepis 3.3 is a GREAT improvement from 2004.6. I tested 3.3 yesterday on two older machines.
-The first was a Dell PII, 128 mb RAM - it booted and installed quickly, worked fine with my 15" monitor and graphic card.
-I then tried it on my old Compaq 1247 laptop AMD-K6 400 mhz 160 MB RAM - I couldn't even boot 2004.6 on this laptop, but with 3.3 It was able to boot from the CD, (it did take some work though) but once installed it ran wonderfully.
This just goes to show that different HW combinations react differently to each Distro. I think it's awesome how Linux in general and those putting out each distro do such a fantasic job.
Those who are complaining, I don't see you putting out the "perfect distro". Some people are just content in complaining and continually looking at the negative instead of contributing. If you can do better.... then go for it! But don't complain until you give it a try first.
JB
14 • PCLinuxOS (by relativ at 2005-02-28 15:51:37 GMT from United States)
I too was very excited about PCLinuxOS .81a... it booted, I logged in, and then no task panel, no nothing. Just a couple of icons on the desktop. A real bummer since I'm on a bandwidth-throttled satellite link to the Internet & it takes 2-3 days to download a distro. Hopefully their first release will be polished and working. Trying all the various distros over the last couple of years is starting to make me feel like a crazy person. Every time, I just return to my Slack desktop. I should just get the message and stop trying to find anything better. Slackware just works for me - and fast, too.
Next to Slackware, Ubunutu is probably the distro I'm most interested in. Still a bit buggy, but this one looks hopeful.
Ladislav, thanks for your tireless efforts in keeping all of us distro junkies good and fixed. You have made Distrowatch.com truly the center for linux information on the Internet and we are thankful.
relativ
15 • Mepis 3.3 and PcLinuxos (by Captain Ron on 2005-02-28 15:53:46 GMT from United States)
I read about these two here and thought: Great Finally a distro that would detect my my wireless card or at the least be able to get it to work with out a lot of trouble.
Boy was I wrong. Neither one of them worked. I was also disappointed in other areas too.
I am a n00b and just learning. I find it to hard to do all the things that need to be done to get one of these cards working. I do not understand the terminology that is used. I know that it is probably pretty easy or at least doable for those that are geeks. Every one assumes you know what they are talking about when giving directions on using NdisWrapper. I know that I am not the only one who is having problems.
Why can't someone find one or two cards and make them work for all of us. Then write a How To that anyone can understand.
I have found that every distro I have tried was useable except for this one thing.
Thanks, Ron
16 • KDE 3.4 Screenshot "System" Icon (by Hopefull on 2005-02-28 15:55:06 GMT from United States)
Ladislav,
The screenshot of the new KDE3.4 default desktop shows a "System" icon. Does this mean that disks and drives will be mounted in a system directory instead of mounting all of the drives on the desktop? I hope so. I really disliked their cluttering up the desktop with mounted and unmounted partitions. Especially so because of their overly long labels.
Hopefull
17 • @Jared (by Marc on 2005-02-28 16:41:04 GMT from Canada)
I did not bash Mepis, i did try 3.3 and compare to what it was
it's getting bloated with hardware detect on boot up.
I really like Mepis, it was my distro of choice, but since they
want to get the most fans out of their hardware detection,
boot time gets longer.
I also tried Mepis on a PII 300 and it was to slow to work
even after a memory upgrade to 256m/b.
So i'm not saying it does not work i just say they went in
a direction that does not meet my needs, so i switched
to Arch.
Sorry if you think "contributing" my experiences is bashing !!!
18 • Lineox 4.0 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-02-28 17:08:58 GMT from Italy)
1) Am I blind or the supposed bittorrent links are nowhere to be found?
2)Anyway, I downloaded the DVD iso image from a mirror, I burnt it to a blank DVD and I started the installation. Guess what: after a while it asks me for CD2!!! No way I can go on. What a rubbish!
19 • Help for Captain Ron with ndiswrapper (by Dave on 2005-02-28 17:26:19 GMT from United States)
http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/howto/ndiswrapper
20 • Mepis 3.3 (by Robert on 2005-02-28 17:31:49 GMT from United States)
I think Mepis 3.3 is the best Distro out there!! Yes there are some problems. But the problems I have found have been those that are the same for all of the distros that I have tried and I have tried almost all of them. A quick and easy install. With the exception of wireless support there are no hardware detection or compatibility problems at all. You get a complete desktop and with apt-get you can play dvds and cds and use thunderbird for e-mails! I have yet to find something better! Boot time is a problem for every distro. Try booting an apple or windows. I really think that the people at Mepis have done a fantastic job. I wish Mepis 3.3 could have KDE 3.4!! Work on the wireless and Windows users will come running!! Oh and buy the way the whole package is either free ot $15 for the ftp download. Try getting a complete version for less than $89.99 from the other distro out there and you will be out of luck!! Mepis Rocks!!
21 • Kanotix (by George on 2005-02-28 18:10:57 GMT from Australia)
Like the look of Kanotix very much, but cannot install to hard drive as indicated in the blurb.
Perhaps someone can help?
22 • Debian... (by Lance Lucas on 2005-02-28 18:48:03 GMT from United States)
I'm getting pretty sick of reading comments like this:
Oh and buy the way the whole package is either free ot $15 for the ftp download. Try getting a complete version for less than $89.99 from the other distro out there and you will be out of luck!! Mepis Rocks!!
It's as if these users don't even know what Debian is or what they do...and I don't quite recall paying $89.99 for the 10,000+ packages I can choose from in Sid. I wish Mepis would spend more time paying homage to its messiah, but instead, we get comments link the one above. It is ridiculous to think of how many distros would fold if Debian one day closed their doors...
23 • Re: Jared (by mdl on 2005-02-28 19:11:58 GMT from United States)
I don't know if your comments about complaining were directed at me, but I don't think mentioning a problem I experienced rises to the level of complaining.
Second, it is arrogant to make statements like "I don't see you putting out the "perfect distro"." Do you really think that only those who put out a "perfect disto" are qualified to mention a problem they had with a distro? Or even complain, if they want to? There are many ways to contribute to Linux besides producing the "perfect distro".
Many Linux users become extremely attached to their favorite distro and take offence to any remark might might not heap praise on their favorite. Mepis users seen particularly susceptible to this. Please try to fight this annoying tendency. There are many good distros (Mepis is one of them), but please take care not to become obnoxious about supporting your favorite. It doesn't do the community any good.
Finally, for clarity, I have used Mepis. I like it and would recommend giving it a try to see how you like it. However, on my very common, 3 year old hardware (which has worked fine with a dozen or so different distros) the display was not detected and set up properly. Not really a complaint.....a fact. Others do not seem to have this issue and are happy with their Mepis. Good. I was able to fix the problem and reported it, but it is still in 3.3, so I have moved on. No big deal.
24 • @Lance Lucas (by Marc on 2005-02-28 19:14:07 GMT from Canada)
Thats what i meant by the direction the took ...
25 • George re Kanotix (by mdl on 2005-02-28 19:39:28 GMT from United States)
Your email did not work, but try this helpful review that was posted here on Distrowatch:
http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=review-kanotix
26 • RE: Kanotix (by George) (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-02-28 19:40:00 GMT from Italy)
From Konsole:
# sudo kanotix-installer
27 • Distro Wars (by Jose on 2005-02-28 19:46:11 GMT from United States)
A lot of good comments out there on Mepis . Hopefully, the problems were reported to Warren so he can get them fixed. I like Mepis. It is a very well put together distro. I feel it is getting a bit bloated now , but it works very well. I have had no problems with it on the three PC's I installed it on. None were wireless, though.
Kanotix, well, it is on my everyday PC now. The newest version, 2005-01 works very well. It picked up everything and just worked. It is faster than Mepis, possibly because of less services and daemons running right after installation. Whatever the reason, it is a very well put together distro.
Vector Linux, long a favorite of mine, has disappointed as of late. There has been numerous problems reported with the use of CDROMS and DVD's. The fine crew at Vector Linux, fixed the problems and have posted a newly compiled distro with the fixes. I'll have to try it out to see if it will again run on my work box.
All in all, some very good distros out there. Distros that I would have never had found out about if not for this great site. Thanks for the hard work Ladislav!
28 • @Marc & mdl re: Mepis (by Jared at 2005-02-28 20:21:35 GMT from United States)
I do need to apologize. I was a bit rash or in a bad mood this morning.
I do appreciate your contributions in identifying and reporting some of the problems you've experienced with Mepis 3.3.
Your shared experiences will (I'm sure) help the Mepis team make the necessary improvements to make their next release much improved.
Thanks for taking the time to download and test this wonderful distro in an effort to make it better.
Jared
29 • Xandros (by 808 on 2005-02-28 20:44:01 GMT from United States)
I just recently tried Xandros OCE 3.01 and I must say it is so easy to use, especially for someone coming from Windows. I tried every distro, from ubuntu, Mepis, Suse, Yoper, and Knoppix. From all of them Xandros won me over as my hardware was detected on my pc that has a 700 Mhz Athlon and a crappy graphics card. It's so easy to install, has a nice looking customized KDE unlike others who call a background and a taskbar look spiffy, and their File manager and xandros networks is so comfortable to use. I got my brother to use it and he's loving it.
Everything mounts automatically, installed mplayer easily, and have yet to have a crash on it too.Then the crossover office is working nicely for winAps I need too. My next installation will be win4lin soon. I just find this distro quite easy for anyone coming from a windows world.
30 • @ Joe (PVR) (by Herbert U. Hübner at 2005-02-28 21:10:57 GMT from Germany)
Since a few years there is a project like this. It is partially sponsored by the German computer magazine c't (www.heise.de).
You might want to have a look at http://www.cadsoft.de/vdr/ for a description. The description page is for an older system.
Based on that certain developers have made a separate edition. There is only a homepage in German language at http://www.heise.de/ct/ftp/projekte/vdr/
The list of mirror sites for ftp are at http://www.heise.de/ftp/spiegel.shtml.
An ISO image is available for example at ftp://ftp.tu-clausthal.de/pub/mirror/ct/projekte/vdr/isos/
At least once a year c't delivers one CD-ROM with the latest stable release attached to a magazine edition.
Hope this helps a bit.
31 • lineox is a rush job (by friend at 2005-02-28 21:48:38 GMT from United States)
Try CentOS. While release 4 isn't out yet, it will be very shortly.
http://www.centos.org
32 • Kanotix is the *Law* (by Zoran Paulitsch on 2005-02-28 22:10:47 GMT from Slovenia)
I install Kanotix on HD. All works fluently. Great Linux Destro. Kano and team Thanks :).
33 • No subject (by Robert on 2005-02-28 22:58:34 GMT from United States)
Lance, I think you need to relax a little?
I have heard of Debian! A lot of distro's out there try to charge you to have a complete package. Some offer free downloads but they limit the software. Others offer everything free like Debian but I have found you have to do a lot of work to configure it to get it working. I should have said some other distros and not all charge $89.99. I have tryed and installed at least 20 or so distros all for free. Debian is great and without Debian there would be no Mepis and many other Distro's.
My point was for a very complete OS right from the start with little or no configuration Mepis is the best I have tried. I have tried Debian and for my little knowledge of Linux it was difficult to configure. For $15 I have the best O.S. I have used so far. I am no expert but I have tried Debian and many others and when you consider ease of use and set up then I think Mepis comes out on top.
The great thing about Linux is that it is always changing and evolving and I support all of it! I just get bothered by the distro's out there that do charge $89.99 or any charge over $20 to get a complete O.S. that I can use. I do not mind paying for the distro. A small fee is fine but $89.99 is not a small fee to me.
34 • Distro Prices (by Homeyzzz@gmail.com on 2005-03-01 00:03:25 GMT from United States)
The $30 I paid for Vidalinux was worth every penny, even if it won't run on my newest MSI 915G combo motherboard, SATA box. (So far no distro has)
The money I contributed to Mephis & Onebase was worth every penny.
I love linux, why not spend a few dollars on something you love? I have to spend a lot of money on MS OS's that I don't love! I think it will be a while before I spend $89 for any one distro. I sincerely hope some distro will soon change my mind.
35 • favorite distro is not your religion (by Anonymous on 2005-03-01 00:27:34 GMT from Malaysia)
sounds like kanotix is an alternative to mepis... downloadin
btw, y the arguments on which is better...
favorite disto your religion
36 • Search Criteria: Sort (by John on 2005-03-01 00:30:46 GMT from Australia)
Sort by "distrowatch ranking" (6 month), which means the most popular/better supported distos rise to the top in the search criteria
37 • Shameless pushing of Ubutu trash by this site ---- get a life (by winsnomore on 2005-03-01 03:04:34 GMT from United States)
What's up with this one month old Ubutu newsletter being
shown on 2nd spot.
I think it's being done because of Mepis. Mepis 3.3 is out and it's gaining on Ubuntu's short reign created by piles of dough.
Ladislave (I get that's the guy who runs this outfit) .. GET REAL.
THIS IS SHAME FULL.
Keep doing it and no one will believe anything on this site.
Ubuntu seems to be throwing money at you .. so let them put an ad on the site, this backdoor payment to recycle old newsletters looses for you and for them.
Regarding the technical merits of the two.
I have tried both, Ubuntu SUCKS .. Mepis is absolutely clean.
Those who say it's slow .. try Fedora/Mandrake/Suse (in order).
On my machine 2.6G P4 it's as fast as Debian and that's pretty good.
With Mepis you have a live CD , try it, if it detects your hardware install it .. if it doesn't chuck it.
Can't do that with Ubutun .. which is a tropical disease of the brain ..
Ubuntu trashed my harddisk while trying to install it. (Twice).
Ubuntu has about 10+ paid developers producing trash, can't beat one good US programmer .. go figure.
Ladislaw .. remove that offending item from this site .. ask them to write a new one .. they have the money to keep paying for useless "newsletters".
38 • Debian leads the way! (by Billy on 2005-03-01 03:47:21 GMT from United States)
By the looks of it, Mandrake and Fedora have got Debian envy. Yep, delay the release of your distribution long enough, and everyone will buzz about how stable and sophisticated your distro is! Maybe this is why Debian-based LiveCDs have gotten to be such a hot item. I hate to rain on the rpm folks' secret plan, but dude! I can see how Fedora could get much-needed 'street cred' as a 'community' distro when its 4-cd download starts giving way to independent 1-cd easy installs. But what is Mandrake going to gain when it seems like everyone prefers the free CD with plugins (PcLinuxOS) to the box distro? Maybe they really *are* trying to make their distro more "stable"..... *GASP*
39 • Reaction to "winsnomore" (by MichielioZ on 2005-03-01 03:48:00 GMT from Netherlands)
"Ladislave (I get that's the guy who runs this outfit) .. GET REAL."
-->
Ok, so I assume you have an equally populair Distro-related internet site ? If not, let Ladislave do his part, give constructive critisism if it applies. Don't just say it's "wrong", but tell him how YOU would like it...
"Can't do that with Ubutun .. which is a tropical disease of the brain ..... Ubuntu has about 10+ paid developers producing trash, can't beat one good US programmer .. go figure."
-->
If Ubuntu failed you several times then that is too bad for you, but don't bash a Distro because of it (maybe YOU did something wrong ?).
Concerning the last remark of the quote... Ubuntu is trying to make a decent Linux Distro with a few paid developers. It's something like the "American Dream", setting up your own business and trying to make it work...
If all the programmers in the world would have the same arrogant attitude as you, nobody would deliver any form of code, 'cause they'd be to busy showing off to each other...
40 • Reaction -- ?????????? What reaction (by winsnomore on 2005-03-01 04:10:08 GMT from United States)
Hey .. the point is that Ladislav is recyling OLLLLLLLLDDDDDD newletters to keep Ubuntu in the "limelite".
I fail to see what are you reacting to .. just "defending" something indefensible .. Putting out old newreleases as new ..
Mephis, it appears, has no support from "this" site, but still manages to show up in the top 1/2/3/4 .
Ubuntu has paid for it's showing .. I rest my case .. and now has to resort to cheap stunts. (oh may be not cheap, but paid for).
And Yes Ubuntu sucks for me .. THIS is ONLY distro that failed on install on my machine , I have tried at least 15+ of them on this hardware.
I have just as much right to criticise them as much you have a right to defend "their American dream" .. oh btw that team seems to be workig out of either SA or GB ..
Ubuntu is in business, this is not charity, I became their beta tester .. (may be alpha-tester) .. so the criticism is needed to keep them straight. You know what happens to dictators who read their own newspapers (or programmers who read their paid reviews).
41 • RE: Shameless pushing of Ubutu trash by this site (by ladislav on 2005-03-01 04:13:28 GMT from Taiwan)
What's up with this one month old Ubutu newsletter being shown on 2nd spot.
It might be one month old, but it was only released today.
I think it's being done because of Mepis.
And I think you need a holiday. Badly.
42 • Released Today ???????? (by winsnomore on 2005-03-01 05:30:11 GMT from United States)
Just checked Ubuntu site, the last update this news letter was on 1/28/05
They used to issue one every week and haven't done in a month.
I am quiet certain I saw #23 on this web site a few weeks ago.
This is RECYCLING ... and ladislav, I think you need to be on the job .. rather than being on a lounge chair.
Enough said about this, if you aren't doing it, then they are .. but it's not a "new" thing.
ciao ..
43 • RE: Shameless pushing of Ubutu trash by this site (by Alan Moser on 2005-03-01 05:59:30 GMT from United States)
How can you even say that Ubuntu is giving money to distrowatch. Can you prove it? NO, because Mark Shuttleworth (the guy who pays for devoplment of Ubuntu) does not belive in Marketing. The only reason why Ubuntu is so big, is because it is such a quality distro. The buzz that is flying around Ubuntu is done only by word of mouth. People get real, Mark Shuttleworth may have alot of money, but he is very frugal with how he spends his money. And there is only 4 paid programmers on Canonical payroll.
~Alan Moser
44 • RE: Released Today (by ladislav on 2005-03-01 06:01:43 GMT from Taiwan)
I am quiet certain I saw #23 on this web site a few weeks ago
You are wrong. Ubuntu Traffic #23 was published and announced on the Ubuntu-news mailing list yesterday:
http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news/2005-February/000024.html
The fact is that somebody at Ubuntu is making an effort to summarise the topics on the Ubuntu mailing list and forums and turn that into a nice weekly newsletter that could be of interest to readers of DistroWatch. Yes, they've fallen behind by about a month, but they continue publishing the newsletters anyway.
In contrast, what have YOU done? You've come here to moan about a project that you dislike and to accuse me of trying to give that project unfair exposure. That could hardly be further from he truth, especially considering that MEPIS sponsors DistroWatch, while Ubuntu does not.
If you like MEPIS so much, why don't you make an effort and publish a weekly MEPIS newsletter? That way, your favourite distribution can also be in the "limelight" every week.
45 • Mempis better then Ubuntu? (by Alan Moser on 2005-03-01 06:01:56 GMT from United States)
I will bet you anything that in the next 2 weeks Ubuntu linux takes over Mempis's spot on the Distro chart.
~Alan Moser
46 • RE: winsnomore (by RaVen at 2005-03-01 06:04:19 GMT from United States)
RECYCLING!!!!! MY GOD..THE OUTRAGE..the SHAME...get out the pitchforks this must be investigated!
Looking back on distrowatch..lets check some dates:
"Ubuntu Traffic #22 For 2005/01/21" Released on 2005-02-14
"Ubuntu Traffic #21 for 2005/01/14" Released on 2005-02-10
"Ubuntu Traffic #20 for 2005/01/07" Released on 2005-02-07
"Ubuntu Traffic #17 for 2004/12/17" Released on 2005-01-26
I'll stop there..but there are more. All of these were posted on distrowatch on the "Released" date, yet are dated quite a bit earlier..now lets look at the one distrowatch is linking too:
"Ubuntu Traffic #23 for 2005/01/28" Released on 2005-02-28
Isn't research fun?...put down your tinfoil hat, relax your hold on the pitchfork and maybe go sit down somewhere dark and unwind...have you considered cutting back on the coffee?
47 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2005-03-01 07:19:59 GMT from Malaysia)
New Board Hacked
Submitted by drlizau on Tue, 03/01/2005 - 05:36. Announcements
Our new Board has been hacked, and as a form of crisis management, I've closed the Board.
So I will allow posting again in the old forum until we have the problem sorted out.
http://www.mepis.org/node/view/5318?PHPSESSID=e640b6f41d8c3a389bdf47179155158b
*something to laugh about...
48 • Being a OS junkie and loving Distrowatch! (by Smiley on 2005-03-01 07:34:03 GMT from Sweden)
Being an OS junkie since long time back, (you know always searching for a better OS to slap on one of my dozen of machines) I am very thankful to this site. Now I can just visit ONE site once a day to be fairly updated about new distros. I love Distrowatch! Have I found what I am searching for? NO, but I am getting closer.. But as time goes by, I've added more to my demands of an OS, so what was perfect in 2000 is not any more. What is my near-perfect OS?
Depends on what machine I wanna use it.. I've got 3 fairly new ones, and a bunch of gradually older ones, ranging from 2 Ghz AMD rigs down to a 486 laptop running at 50 Mhz. So my best for the oldest would be Deli Linux, and for my best PC having 3-4 OS installed, namely: PCLinuxOS, Mepis, Ubuntu and Linspire. I have probably installes more than 100 different OS in the last 5 years, but are still searching for a better, faster, more stable and featurefilled OS. Here is where Distrowatch makes it a LOT easier for me. So stop being whiners. It does not matter who's on top for the moment. I you don't like what you see, well either don't use Distrowatch or ask a polite question like: Why is there .... Or: It looks like ... Or: I don't understand why ... Instead of accusing somebody for something you have no knowledge of. Then could you have gotten an explanation without this bashing. Have a nice day everybody!!
49 • Re: Debian (by Ed Borasky on 2005-03-01 07:37:48 GMT from United States)
"It's as if these users don't even know what Debian is or what they do...and I don't quite recall paying $89.99 for the 10,000+ packages I can choose from in Sid. I wish Mepis would spend more time paying homage to its messiah, but instead, we get comments link the one above. It is ridiculous to think of how many distros would fold if Debian one day closed their doors..."
Amen!! It's about time someone recognized the incredible resource Debian is!! When Red Hat pulled the RHEL/Fedora split, it took me about a week to decide where to go, and that was Debian. I'd probably still be using it instead of Gentoo if Debian had more of the Java-based packages in their repository. BTW, it's over 15,000 packages in "sarge" -- there are probably more in "sid". Gentoo has 8962 as of tonight. :)
50 • • RE: Shameless pushing of Ubutu trash by this site (by crusher on 2005-03-01 09:13:38 GMT from United States)
winsnomore: I understand your frustration at having your hard drive trashed (I had buffalo do that to my drive once). I don't understand your harsh personaly attack against Lasislov and distrowatch. Your frustration doesn't warrant the extremely rude and spiteful attack you made. I personally love fedora right now, cool. Just because you don't like a distro doesn't mean that you have to attack Ubuntu and their programmers. there is a huge difference between constructive criticism of a distro and blatant disrespect for all their hard work.
51 • at somebody who said that debian is difficult to configure (by meursault on 2005-03-01 09:23:54 GMT from Switzerland)
you cant say that, because its wrong. debconf is great. it has nearly all the time an explanation and it says what it thinks is the best for you!
and if somebody complains about the release of sarge, well then tell me what feature is soooo good in teh newest (insert softwarename here) that you are missing in the old one. some people really got "versionnumbersick". i agree that woody is old, but sarge wont be outdated when it comes out.
i hate debian bashers
so long
52 • How do you count Debian packages? (by Ariszló on 2005-03-01 11:25:24 GMT from Hungary)
Slackware's single kdebase-3.3.2-i486-1.tgz package is equivalent to 28 Debian packages in debian/pool/main/k/kdebase:
kappfinder_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, kate_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, kcontrol_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, kdebase-bin_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, kdebase-dev_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, kdebase-kio-plugins_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, kdepasswd_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, kdeprint_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, kdesktop_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, kdm_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, kfind_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, khelpcenter_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, kicker_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, klipper_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, kmenuedit_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, konqueror-nsplugins_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, konqueror_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, konsole_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, kpager_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, kpersonalizer_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, ksmserver_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, ksplash_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, ksysguard_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, ksysguardd_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, ktip_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, kwin_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, libkonq4-dev_3.3.2-1_i386.deb, libkonq4_3.3.2-1_i386.deb
53 • Mandrake & Conectiva (by reddazz at 2005-03-01 11:52:14 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hopefully this will provide us with a good distro. Mandrake has always been a good distro but went through a phase of making very buggy distros. Conectiva on the other hand is very innovative, so this is going to be an interesting merger.
54 • re : Mandrake & Conectiva (by Marc on 2005-03-01 12:03:49 GMT from Canada)
It will i hope, improve the quality of their graphics
and who knows maybe change to Synaptic.
55 • Some corrections (by Steven Watsky on 2005-03-01 12:43:40 GMT from Czech Republic)
First, let's all learn to spell Ladislav's name before we criticise him. It's L-A-D-I-S-L-A-V.
Second, Ubuntu does indeed spend money on marketing its product -- it has sent out, free of charge, hundreds of thousands of CDs throughout the world. It's brilliant marketing and cost Mr. Shuttlesworth tens of thousands of dollars in CD pressing, not to mention postage.
Third, this is Mr. Bodnar's site that he maintains as a service to the Open-Source community. It's not anyone's business but his what he does and does not choose to display on his pages.
Fourth, it's very hard to take seriously any comments from someone who can't spell, whose syntax is from Mars or someplace near there and rants, winsnomore. Your fractured sentences say more about you than the topic you were trying to discuss.
Fifth, when my distribution, which I won't even name because I'm not trying to plug it, was reviewed by OSNews in a round-up of live CDs and called the best, Mr. Bodnar chose to not publicise that. That's his decision. It's not anyone else's but HIS. He has a right to make those decisions because he pays the bills, not you, winsnomore. Do you hear me complaining? No. Because I have no right to complain to a Website owner because it's, once again, HIS decision, not yours.
Finally, things like a trashed hard drive are going to happen. It's free software. These things happen. Or didn't you know that?
Ladislav, thank you for the enormous effort that it must take you to maintain this Website as a service to the community. I believe winsnomore would behave a lot differently if he were on the receiving end of such drivel.
Thanks and cheers,
Steven Watsky
56 • Linux LiveCD Roundup (by Ariszló on 2005-03-01 13:26:34 GMT from Hungary)
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=9569
57 • hear hear (by Gnobian_Ken00bie on 2005-03-01 15:50:07 GMT from United States)
Hi Steven. Thanks for saying so very well what I - and I imagine many others - were thinking. Hope all's well and congrats on the good reviews for BeatrIX. (I can plug it for you.)
58 • delayed releases: Kernel (by Benjamin Vander Jagt on 2005-03-01 15:56:45 GMT from United States)
might as well add Kernel 2.6.11 to the list of delayed releases.
59 • RE: Some corrections (by Alan Moser on 2005-03-01 19:09:17 GMT from United States)
Yes, Mark Shuttleworth is spending thounsands of dollars to ship Ubuntu linux CD (I have three of them). But what Mark did not do is go out and by advertising space to tell people that their were free cds. The only way I found out about the free cds is from the Ubuntu Linux web site. So the questions is, if the people come, with out you telling them about it, is it really advertising? NO.
~Alan Moser
60 • Google's AutoLink will cost distrowatch money (by Mike Lu on 2005-03-01 20:36:21 GMT from United States)
Ladislav, you better be careful, Google's new toolbar feature may cost you advertising income. Actually, it is very ugly and I am surprised Google is doing this.
http://www.itworld.com/Tech/2987/nls_ecommercegoogle050301/
61 • RE - Some corrections (by crusher on 2005-03-01 21:04:39 GMT from United States)
Hear hear. thanks so much for all the effort you put into this site Ladislav :)
62 • expected releases (by Milen on 2005-03-01 21:08:16 GMT from Bulgaria)
You've written "# 2005-03-XX: Games Knoppix 0.3 " twice in the upcoming releases. Does this mean we get to releases with the same version or is it a typing mistake?
63 • Some corrections to your corrections, Mr. Moser (by Steven Watsky on 2005-03-01 21:47:37 GMT from Czech Republic)
Mr. Moser,
Could you please point out where in my post that I used the word "advertising" because I can't find it. Perhaps you're not aware that there is a difference between the two words and their definitions, with all due respect. I always thought that "marketing" was the identifying of a customer's needs or wants. I also mistakenly believed that "advertising" generally was defined as the purchasing of some type of media for the purpose of selling goods.
If I am wrong about this I owe you -- and the more than 1000 university students that I taught public relations to in America -- an apology. I also wanted to thank you for pointing out that Mr. Shuttlesworth would by advertising because I always thought that a person such as he would buy advertising.
Thank you very much for correcting me,
Steven Watsky
64 • Ubuntu and Advertising (Moser v. Watsky to the DEATH!) (by GWJ Mateo on 2005-03-01 22:20:36 GMT from United States)
Actually, you both are right.
Ubuntu doesn't take out banner ads, print ads, TV ads, or even take any sort of noticable marketing stance per se, so in that sense, Mr. Watsky is correct.
Shipping out burns of CDs gratis to willing distributors/
evangelists, well, that's grassroots, or viral, marketing, and so Mr. Moser is correct as well-it's marketing/advertising through world of mouth.
The brilliance of this is that its a pull strategy, rather than a push one. Mr. Moser is right, you have to dig for that disk form.
65 • RE: Ubuntu and Advertising (by Alan Moser on 2005-03-02 05:02:56 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the props, but I do belive that Mr. Watsky is more correct then me. It is marketing, and no matter how little it is, Marketing is marketing. So Mr. Watsky is correct. I found that at this website
http://www.marketingprofs.com/Faqs/showfaq.asp?ID=135&CatID=1
~Alan Moser
P.S. Just think what this distro world would be like if Mark Shuttleworth did decied to Advertise, I don't think Ladislav would not need any other sponsers of Distrowatch :P I am going to bed now...................
66 • Debating with Mr. Watsky (by Alan Moser on 2005-03-02 05:09:35 GMT from United States)
He who knows others is wise. ~Lao Tzu
If I would of relised that I was debating with a person whos distro is based off of Ubuntu, I would of shut-up along time ago.
~Alan Moser
P.S. My mom loves your distro. (I think it is the cat)
67 • Peanuts (by Anonymous on 2005-03-02 12:40:49 GMT from Germany)
ibiblio.org is always slow for downloading linux isos. cant download peanuts linux from there.
68 • mepis and ubuntu (by Anonymous on 2005-03-02 12:48:59 GMT from Germany)
it would be good when it would be able to install this distros without first booting whole xwindows system os. so we can install it on pc with less memory and processor power, direct as boot install option on livecd systems.
69 • re : mepis and ubuntu (by Marc on 2005-03-02 13:44:38 GMT from Canada)
Just try Arch Linux then !!!
Thats what it does !!!
Install the basic system and then you can pick the
language and the window manager that you want !!!
All the steps are explained on the base cd. So when
your internet connection is estlblished you can install
the rest of the software that you want.
I did it and i'm no way a linux geek.
Arch ROCKS !!!
70 • Your comments about my comment about your coomments about the cats. (by Steven Watsky on 2005-03-02 14:08:24 GMT from Czech Republic)
Alan,
Didn't mean any offense, trust me, in my reponse. I honestly get tired of people bashing free software and get extremely defensive because of all that each distro maker must go through to satisfy its users. Goodness, there are enough distros out there to simply walk away from one and go to another, if you know what I mean.
I've invested a great deal of money in bringing ours to market and get hammered constantly by people who ask such Important Things as why we capitalised the last two letters of the distro -- the IX -- as if it's not obvious. Or the patently obscene e-mail that people send me because the bittorrent server went down.
I realise that for the user, it's an important thing that they be able to download a product and use it. But it seems as if each person thinks they're the only one on the plaent and you're supposed to devote six-seven hours of your day to sorting out a problem only to never receive so much as a "thank you" when you fix it. We just passed the quarter-million mark in downloads three days ago, we maintain an excellent, IMHO, forum filled with useful information and instead of searching the forum for an answer, you get asked the same questions over and over again. Sometimes I think that the licensing debate over free software should be the other way around -- the user should have to have a license to operate the system.
And please tell you mom that they're the most extraordinary creatures I've ever been around.
Thanks and cheers,
Steven
71 • RE: Your comments about my comment about your coomments about the cats. (by Alan Moser on 2005-03-02 15:20:47 GMT from United States)
You are right about the licensing issue. I just don't under stand why people have such a problem with licensing. Take for example the Nvidia dirvers, Most distro won't include them because they a closed source, but the open source nv drivers don't even come close the to offical Nvidia drivers. If you think about it, the end user is not going to care about if the program is closed source or open source. They just want it to work, they way it should. This kinda of idealolgy of open source is good and bad, it promotes developers working to gether, but it is going to keep linux off of the desktop for a long time. I think that if we could just get over the fact that some closed source programs work better the open source, and include them in the distros, then Linux will be ready to make a push on the home desktop market.
~Alan Moser
72 • Free Software (by Gnobian_Ken00bie on 2005-03-02 16:42:53 GMT from United States)
Just my two cents: when purchasing new boxen, I go out of my way to avoid purchasing hardware that depends upon proprietary drivers or other software, e.g. I always go with VIA chipsets rather than Nvidia or Rio Karma over iPod. And when I've explained the precise issues, a lot of "end users" (I hate that term personally) have shown an eagerness to avoid the proprietary stuff whenever possible. Now, what's "possible" depends on one's needs of course. For someone who really enjoys looking online at new cars they may never buy, it may be that doing without Macromedia Flash isn't "possible". But with those caveats, I think that a lot of people do care once they're acquainted with the issues.
On a side note: discussing the issue of donating to a distro. I gave up on trying to donate as much to free software as I would have spent on proprietary versions. I mean, forking over the cost of, e.g. Adobe Photoshop, when I use the GIMP, is a laudable idea, but once you start adding it up, it becomes untenable. It also makes you appreciate free (as in beer as well as speech) software much more.
But my suggestion to the individual interested in finding a distro they can support: you may want to make a donation to the Free Software Foundation, whose tools are in just about any distribution (save embedded Linux systems). Or, if you find that most of the distros you consider are derived from Debian, donate to Software in the Public Interest. Helping Debian helps Ubuntu, Knoppix, Kanotix, Morphix, Damn Small, BeatrIX, progeny, UserLinux,... and yes, MEPIS and Xandros as well. Or if you have a preferred desktop environment or window manager or a favorite application, donate to upstream developers. We can't just wait until we find the distro that meets our exact needs before we're willing to contribute to their improvement.
73 • RE: Free Software (by Alan Moser on 2005-03-02 17:17:39 GMT from United States)
I do agree with what you are saying. I do prefer open source software to closed source software, but what i was trying to say is that if the open source software can do the same things as the closed source counter part then I will use it. But there are some cases where the open source version will never be able to out perform closed source counter-parts (ex. Nvidia drivers). I think that if linux wants to make it on the desktop we have to get over the fact the open source may not be the solution to all of our computing problems. About your hardware, the end user (or consumer), does not care what video card they have in their desktop pc, they just want it to work. And yes, I have donated alot to the open source cause (money, time, programming experence, bug testing, etc..). This attitude that the linux community has that closed source software is inferor is some thing that we have to shed if we want to be taken serously for the desktop.
~Alan Moser
74 • Correction -- my apologies (by winsnomore on 2005-03-02 18:02:07 GMT from United States)
I was mistaken in the Ubutu "newsletter" dates, I stand corrected and am sorry that I didn't check my facts before posting and my comments were wrong.
However, I do think some of the posts were way off the mark.
First, I don't think I violated anyones rights by complaining Me thinks the marketing guru's who teach others the meaning of the words fail to understand what "rights" mean, I had only questioned the credibiility of the information .. not the "right" to post or to push anything ..
Second, I was surprised what one of the posts said "
>> "Finally, things like a trashed hard drive are going to happen. It's free software. These things happen. Or didn't you know that?"
I don't believe in such postulates, and don't think trashed disks should happen by "design" with the current technology.
I wish you all the luck in convincing people that this is normal. I have installed at least 1000 OS's (win/linux/solaris .... etc. etc. etc. ) .. Ubuntu is the only on e in recent memory (5+ years) that has(had) this feature.
Someone was willing to bet that Ubuntu will be number 1.
With ny experience with this disto I would like to be surprised.
Lastly, Ubuntu does have a very active marketing orgranziation, uncoventional, but quiet savy. They push their stories, they time their "news" releases and they have active participation on "all" forums .. Sometimes their defence as well as the push is nasueating, but they surely have the right to do what ever they want to do :-))
I personal don't think this is a winning strategy, for that, you need a good product.
75 • Correction -- my apologies (by winsnomore on 2005-03-02 22:35:05 GMT from United States)
I was mistaken in the Ubutu "newsletter" dates, I stand corrected and am sorry that I didn't check my facts before posting and my comments were wrong.
However, I do think some of the posts were way off the mark.
First, I don't think I violated anyones rights by complaining Me thinks the marketing guru's who teach others the meaning of the words fail to understand what "rights" mean, I had only questioned the credibiility of the information .. not the "right" to post or to push anything ..
Second, I was surprised what one of the posts said "
>> "Finally, things like a trashed hard drive are going to happen. It's free software. These things happen. Or didn't you know that?"
I don't believe in such postulates, and don't think trashed disks should happen by "design" with the current technology.
I wish you all the luck in convincing people that this is normal. I have installed at least 1000 OS's (win/linux/solaris .... etc. etc. etc. ) .. Ubuntu is the only on e in recent memory (5+ years) that has(had) this feature.
Someone was willing to bet that Ubuntu will be number 1.
With ny experience with this disto I would like to be surprised.
Lastly, Ubuntu does have a very active marketing orgranziation, uncoventional, but quiet savy. They push their stories, they time their "news" releases and they have active participation on "all" forums .. Sometimes their defence as well as the push is nasueating, but they surely have the right to do what ever they want to do :-))
I personal don't think this is a winning strategy, for that, you need a good product.• RE: lineox is a rush job (by friend) (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-03-02 23:53:13 GMT from Italy)
Belated thanks. I am downloading CentOS now and a DVD torrent was immediately available.• RE: lineox is a rush job (by friend) (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-03-02 23:54:38 GMT from Italy)
Belated thanks. I am downloading CentOS now and a DVD torrent was immediately available.• RE: lineox is a rush job (by friend) (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-03-02 23:56:25 GMT from Italy)
Belated thanks. I am downloading CentOS now and a DVD torrent was immediately available.• RE: Correction (by Alan Moser on 2005-03-03 04:17:35 GMT from United States)
Saying that Ubuntu is a bad distro because it trashed one of your hard drives is not very fair. Did you try the cd out on other computers? Did it trash there hard drives? How do you know that the CD you burned was not a coaster? Just because it has a hiccup doesn't mean that it is bad. Now I am not mad or angry because you think that Ubuntu is bad, you can think what ever you want. But if their is a problem with Ubuntu, I would like to know, so that I can file a bug report, talk about it on the mailing list and see what turns up. About their marketing, they don't push their stories, no one from the Ubuntu staff tells the members of the Ubuntu community to go and spread the word, we just do it, because we think that it is a very good product. You say that Ubuntu needs a good product, well, look how many people have installed Ubuntu on the computer and loved it, so I do think that Ubuntu is a good product. We all have our prefrences about which distro is the best, I just think that Ubuntu is the best.
~Alan• No subject (by Free software (to Alan) on 2005-03-03 06:42:43 GMT from United States)
I quite agree that open source Nvidia drivers don't work as well as the proprietary ones. That's not a failure of open source development methods, but down to the fact that Nvidia is not forthcoming with their specs - no doubt for competitive reasons.
And I think it's a good thing that Ubuntu makes an exception for these. In most cases, it's up to the user to make the decision to find and install proprietary software - it's about choice. But not being able to get the system fully up and running to begin with would limit rather than enhance choices.
What I am saying is that when non-technical people have the issues explained to them, e.g. perhaps starting by having them actually read the outrageous terms in some EULAs, they very often DO care.
In the short run, I agree that open source software cannot address everyone's needs all of the time. I also believe that in the long run, it will do a better job. But some of the biggest obstacles are economic and political. As GNU/Linux and *BSD gain a greater presence, the pressure on, e.g. equipment manufacturers to release their specifications and for governments and businesses to move to using open formats (this is already changing, for exampe in the Commonwealth of Massachussetts), will increase. At the same time, a wider user base will accelerate development. System administrators and software developers often have different needs than desktop users, but as the desktop base grows, the feedback that gets upstream will begin shifting the emphasis to features that those users want.
I consider software developed in an open manner to be long-term more likely to be stable, secure, and innovative, but I do recognize that short-term, proprietary software can be superior. However, I also consider free (as in speech) software to be superior for other reasons. I don't subscribe to some of the absolutistic language of RMS (only because I am suspicious of absolutistic language generally) but I do consider non-free software to be A Bad Thing. It's bad for security and privacy. It's also based on a model that cannot be sustained on a large scale without enlisting governments in bad public policy - public policy that is anti-consumer, anti-privacy, anti-free speech, and anti-innovation.
As for hardware and whether users care, again I beg to differ. It's a matter of education. When people are informed, they very often do care. Of course, some - like game enthusiasts - choose Nvidia precisely because they ARE informed: on technical specs. But that's far from the indifference that you seem to attribute to most users.• Free software (to Alan) (by Gnobian_Ken00bie on 2005-03-03 06:43:55 GMT from United States)
I quite agree that open source Nvidia drivers don't work as well as the proprietary ones. That's not a failure of open source development methods, but down to the fact that Nvidia is not forthcoming with their specs - no doubt for competitive reasons.
And I think it's a good thing that Ubuntu makes an exception for these. In most cases, it's up to the user to make the decision to find and install proprietary software - it's about choice. But not being able to get the system fully up and running to begin with would limit rather than enhance choices.
What I am saying is that when non-technical people have the issues explained to them, e.g. perhaps starting by having them actually read the outrageous terms in some EULAs, they very often DO care.
In the short run, I agree that open source software cannot address everyone's needs all of the time. I also believe that in the long run, it will do a better job. But some of the biggest obstacles are economic and political. As GNU/Linux and *BSD gain a greater presence, the pressure on, e.g. equipment manufacturers to release their specifications and for governments and businesses to move to using open formats (this is already changing, for exampe in the Commonwealth of Massachussetts), will increase. At the same time, a wider user base will accelerate development. System administrators and software developers often have different needs than desktop users, but as the desktop base grows, the feedback that gets upstream will begin shifting the emphasis to features that those users want.
I consider software developed in an open manner to be long-term more likely to be stable, secure, and innovative, but I do recognize that short-term, proprietary software can be superior. However, I also consider free (as in speech) software to be superior for other reasons. I don't subscribe to some of the absolutistic language of RMS (only because I am suspicious of absolutistic language generally) but I do consider non-free software to be A Bad Thing. It's bad for security and privacy. It's also based on a model that cannot be sustained on a large scale without enlisting governments in bad public policy - public policy that is anti-consumer, anti-privacy, anti-free speech, and anti-innovation.
As for hardware and whether users care, again I beg to differ. It's a matter of education. When people are informed, they very often do care. Of course, some - like game enthusiasts - choose Nvidia precisely because they ARE informed: on technical specs. But that's far from the indifference that you seem to attribute to most users.• winsnomore (by Gnobian_Ken00bie on 2005-03-03 06:59:50 GMT from United States)
I do hope that rather than merely using this as an excuse to bash a product - a product that I note has pleased a great many users who have experienced none of your own unfortunate difficulties - that you also passed along the specific problems you had - not just that your hard drive was "trashed", but e.g. "Grub error 17", along with some information on your hardware specifications, so that other users may be spared similar problems - or be informed perhaps that with your particular specs, they may anticipate difficulties, rather than being given the blatant FUD that Ubuntu is just bad - contrary to so many others who've had a wonderful experience.
No one is saying that whatever problems you encountered happened "by design" but it seems to me to evince ridiculous naivete or else blatant disingenuousness to suggest that difficulties like this come as a complete surprise.
For my part, I've had little or no problem installing Ubuntu on a variety of boxen, old and new, including x86 and amd64 (I haven't done a Mac install though.) On the other hand, on one occasion, I even had problem with Knoppix. Now, I could share many, many success stories with Knoppix, and I consider it one of the most powerful and reliable software tools on the planet, but sometimes software and hardware just seem not to get along.
Incidentally, one of the reasons that we do find these problems is something that newbies need to understand: when you buy a machine with M$ pre-installed, the OEM has put a great deal of work into making all of he hardware and all of the software "just work". It's a trial for them sometimes - and they pass the cost of that work onto you - but when you boot the machine up, you don't even have to think about it. That and the fact that device manufacturers rush to make drivers available for Windoze are among the biggest advantages of that platform. As GNU/Linux (and *BSD) grow, the situation will no doubt improve, but whenever you DO have a success booting an operating system onto a machine that didn't have it pre-installed and whose manufacturers gave no special considertion to the makers of that OS, you should consider how much work went into ensuring the compatibility of the software side. Props to Knoppix. Props to Kudzu. And yes, props to MEPIS as well.• winsnomore (by Gnobian_Ken00bie on 2005-03-03 07:45:03 GMT from United States)
I do hope that rather than merely using this as an excuse to bash a product - a product that I note has pleased a great many users who have experienced none of your own unfortunate difficulties - that you also passed along the specific problems you had - not just that your hard drive was "trashed", but e.g. "Grub error 17", along with some information on your hardware specifications, so that other users may be spared similar problems - or be informed perhaps that with your particular specs, they may anticipate difficulties, rather than being given the blatant FUD that Ubuntu is just bad - contrary to so many others who've had a wonderful experience.
No one is saying that whatever problems you encountered happened "by design" but it seems to me to evince ridiculous naivete or else blatant disingenuousness to suggest that difficulties like this come as a complete surprise.
For my part, I've had little or no problem installing Ubuntu on a variety of boxen, old and new, including x86 and amd64 (I haven't done a Mac install though.) On the other hand, on one occasion, I even had problem with Knoppix. Now, I could share many, many success stories with Knoppix, and I consider it one of the most powerful and reliable software tools on the planet, but sometimes software and hardware just seem not to get along.
Incidentally, one of the reasons that we do find these problems is something that newbies need to understand: when you buy a machine with M$ pre-installed, the OEM has put a great deal of work into making all of he hardware and all of the software "just work". It's a trial for them sometimes - and they pass the cost of that work onto you - but when you boot the machine up, you don't even have to think about it. That and the fact that device manufacturers rush to make drivers available for Windoze are among the biggest advantages of that platform. As GNU/Linux (and *BSD) grow, the situation will no doubt improve, but whenever you DO have a success booting an operating system onto a machine that didn't have it pre-installed and whose manufacturers gave no special considertion to the makers of that OS, you should consider how much work went into ensuring the compatibility of the software side. Props to Knoppix. Props to Kudzu. And yes, props to MEPIS as well.• winsnomore (by Gnobian_Ken00bie on 2005-03-03 07:45:48 GMT from United States)
I do hope that rather than merely using this as an excuse to bash a product - a product that I note has pleased a great many users who have experienced none of your own unfortunate difficulties - that you also passed along the specific problems you had - not just that your hard drive was "trashed", but e.g. "Grub error 17", along with some information on your hardware specifications, so that other users may be spared similar problems - or be informed perhaps that with your particular specs, they may anticipate difficulties, rather than being given the blatant FUD that Ubuntu is just bad - contrary to so many others who've had a wonderful experience.
No one is saying that whatever problems you encountered happened "by design" but it seems to me to evince ridiculous naivete or else blatant disingenuousness to suggest that difficulties like this come as a complete surprise.
For my part, I've had little or no problem installing Ubuntu on a variety of boxen, old and new, including x86 and amd64 (I haven't done a Mac install though.) On the other hand, on one occasion, I even had problem with Knoppix. Now, I could share many, many success stories with Knoppix, and I consider it one of the most powerful and reliable software tools on the planet, but sometimes software and hardware just seem not to get along.
Incidentally, one of the reasons that we do find these problems is something that newbies need to understand: when you buy a machine with M$ pre-installed, the OEM has put a great deal of work into making all of he hardware and all of the software "just work". It's a trial for them sometimes - and they pass the cost of that work onto you - but when you boot the machine up, you don't even have to think about it. That and the fact that device manufacturers rush to make drivers available for Windoze are among the biggest advantages of that platform. As GNU/Linux (and *BSD) grow, the situation will no doubt improve, but whenever you DO have a success booting an operating system onto a machine that didn't have it pre-installed and whose manufacturers gave no special considertion to the makers of that OS, you should consider how much work went into ensuring the compatibility of the software side. Props to Knoppix. Props to Kudzu. And yes, props to MEPIS as well.• winsnomore (by Gnobian_Ken00bie on 2005-03-03 07:46:03 GMT from United States)
I do hope that rather than merely using this as an excuse to bash a product - a product that I note has pleased a great many users who have experienced none of your own unfortunate difficulties - that you also passed along the specific problems you had - not just that your hard drive was "trashed", but e.g. "Grub error 17", along with some information on your hardware specifications, so that other users may be spared similar problems - or be informed perhaps that with your particular specs, they may anticipate difficulties, rather than being given the blatant FUD that Ubuntu is just bad - contrary to so many others who've had a wonderful experience.
No one is saying that whatever problems you encountered happened "by design" but it seems to me to evince ridiculous naivete or else blatant disingenuousness to suggest that difficulties like this come as a complete surprise.
For my part, I've had little or no problem installing Ubuntu on a variety of boxen, old and new, including x86 and amd64 (I haven't done a Mac install though.) On the other hand, on one occasion, I even had problem with Knoppix. Now, I could share many, many success stories with Knoppix, and I consider it one of the most powerful and reliable software tools on the planet, but sometimes software and hardware just seem not to get along.
Incidentally, one of the reasons that we do find these problems is something that newbies need to understand: when you buy a machine with M$ pre-installed, the OEM has put a great deal of work into making all of he hardware and all of the software "just work". It's a trial for them sometimes - and they pass the cost of that work onto you - but when you boot the machine up, you don't even have to think about it. That and the fact that device manufacturers rush to make drivers available for Windoze are among the biggest advantages of that platform. As GNU/Linux (and *BSD) grow, the situation will no doubt improve, but whenever you DO have a success booting an operating system onto a machine that didn't have it pre-installed and whose manufacturers gave no special considertion to the makers of that OS, you should consider how much work went into ensuring the compatibility of the software side. Props to Knoppix. Props to Kudzu. And yes, props to MEPIS as well.• winsnomore (by Gnobian_Ken00bie on 2005-03-03 08:03:44 GMT from United States)
I do hope that rather than merely using this as an excuse to bash a product - a product that I note has pleased a great many users who have experienced none of your own unfortunate difficulties - that you also passed along the specific problems you had - not just that your hard drive was "trashed", but e.g. "Grub error 17", along with some information on your hardware specifications, so that other users may be spared similar problems - or be informed perhaps that with your particular specs, they may anticipate difficulties, rather than being given the blatant FUD that Ubuntu is just bad - contrary to so many others who've had a wonderful experience.
No one is saying that whatever problems you encountered happened "by design" but it seems to me to evince ridiculous naivete or else blatant disingenuousness to suggest that difficulties like this come as a complete surprise.
For my part, I've had little or no problem installing Ubuntu on a variety of boxen, old and new, including x86 and amd64 (I haven't done a Mac install though.) On the other hand, on one occasion, I even had problem with Knoppix. Now, I could share many, many success stories with Knoppix, and I consider it one of the most powerful and reliable software tools on the planet, but sometimes software and hardware just seem not to get along.
Incidentally, one of the reasons that we do find these problems is something that newbies need to understand: when you buy a machine with M$ pre-installed, the OEM has put a great deal of work into making all of he hardware and all of the software "just work". It's a trial for them sometimes - and they pass the cost of that work onto you - but when you boot the machine up, you don't even have to think about it. That and the fact that device manufacturers rush to make drivers available for Windoze are among the biggest advantages of that platform. As GNU/Linux (and *BSD) grow, the situation will no doubt improve, but whenever you DO have a success booting an operating system onto a machine that didn't have it pre-installed and whose manufacturers gave no special considertion to the makers of that OS, you should consider how much work went into ensuring the compatibility of the software side. Props to Knoppix. Props to Kudzu. And yes, props to MEPIS as well.• winsnomore (by Gnobian_Ken00bie on 2005-03-03 09:41:38 GMT from United States)
I do hope that rather than merely using this as an excuse to bash a product - a product that I note has pleased a great many users who have experienced none of your own unfortunate difficulties - that you also passed along the specific problems you had - not just that your hard drive was "trashed", but e.g. "Grub error 17", along with some information on your hardware specifications, so that other users may be spared similar problems - or be informed perhaps that with your particular specs, they may anticipate difficulties, rather than being given the blatant FUD that Ubuntu is just bad - contrary to so many others who've had a wonderful experience.
No one is saying that whatever problems you encountered happened "by design" but it seems to me to evince ridiculous naivete or else blatant disingenuousness to suggest that difficulties like this come as a complete surprise.
For my part, I've had little or no problem installing Ubuntu on a variety of boxen, old and new, including x86 and amd64 (I haven't done a Mac install though.) On the other hand, on one occasion, I even had problem with Knoppix. Now, I could share many, many success stories with Knoppix, and I consider it one of the most powerful and reliable software tools on the planet, but sometimes software and hardware just seem not to get along.
Incidentally, one of the reasons that we do find these problems is something that newbies need to understand: when you buy a machine with M$ pre-installed, the OEM has put a great deal of work into making all of he hardware and all of the software "just work". It's a trial for them sometimes - and they pass the cost of that work onto you - but when you boot the machine up, you don't even have to think about it. That and the fact that device manufacturers rush to make drivers available for Windoze are among the biggest advantages of that platform. As GNU/Linux (and *BSD) grow, the situation will no doubt improve, but whenever you DO have a success booting an operating system onto a machine that didn't have it pre-installed and whose manufacturers gave no special considertion to the makers of that OS, you should consider how much work went into ensuring the compatibility of the software side. Props to Knoppix. Props to Kudzu. And yes, props to MEPIS as well.• winsnomore (by Gnobian_Ken00bie on 2005-03-03 09:41:47 GMT from United States)
I do hope that rather than merely using this as an excuse to bash a product - a product that I note has pleased a great many users who have experienced none of your own unfortunate difficulties - that you also passed along the specific problems you had - not just that your hard drive was "trashed", but e.g. "Grub error 17", along with some information on your hardware specifications, so that other users may be spared similar problems - or be informed perhaps that with your particular specs, they may anticipate difficulties, rather than being given the blatant FUD that Ubuntu is just bad - contrary to so many others who've had a wonderful experience.
No one is saying that whatever problems you encountered happened "by design" but it seems to me to evince ridiculous naivete or else blatant disingenuousness to suggest that difficulties like this come as a complete surprise.
For my part, I've had little or no problem installing Ubuntu on a variety of boxen, old and new, including x86 and amd64 (I haven't done a Mac install though.) On the other hand, on one occasion, I even had problem with Knoppix. Now, I could share many, many success stories with Knoppix, and I consider it one of the most powerful and reliable software tools on the planet, but sometimes software and hardware just seem not to get along.
Incidentally, one of the reasons that we do find these problems is something that newbies need to understand: when you buy a machine with M$ pre-installed, the OEM has put a great deal of work into making all of he hardware and all of the software "just work". It's a trial for them sometimes - and they pass the cost of that work onto you - but when you boot the machine up, you don't even have to think about it. That and the fact that device manufacturers rush to make drivers available for Windoze are among the biggest advantages of that platform. As GNU/Linux (and *BSD) grow, the situation will no doubt improve, but whenever you DO have a success booting an operating system onto a machine that didn't have it pre-installed and whose manufacturers gave no special considertion to the makers of that OS, you should consider how much work went into ensuring the compatibility of the software side. Props to Knoppix. Props to Kudzu. And yes, props to MEPIS as well.• Re: Correction -- my apologies (by Lanx on 2005-03-03 10:21:21 GMT from Germany)
Did it ever occur to you that your crashed hard drive was not the fault of Ubuntu but bad luck? There seem to be no other users who have had similar expierences, so it is little bit unfair to blame a distribution which works for the rest.There is difference if the distribution damages ones computer hardware (like one version of Mandrake Linux to one specific CD-drive did - the issue was fixed when it was discovered) or if it happens by sheer coincidence.
> they have active participation on "all" forums
Which is a sign that for them this distribution just works.• Re: Correction -- my apologies (by Lanx on 2005-03-03 10:21:50 GMT from Germany)
Did it ever occur to you that your crashed hard drive was not the fault of Ubuntu but bad luck? There seem to be no other users who have had similar expierences, so it is little bit unfair to blame a distribution which works for the rest.There is difference if the distribution damages ones computer hardware (like one version of Mandrake Linux to one specific CD-drive did - the issue was fixed when it was discovered) or if it happens by sheer coincidence.
> they have active participation on "all" forums
Which is a sign that for them this distribution just works.• Re: Correction -- my apologies (by Lanx on 2005-03-03 10:24:12 GMT from Germany)
Did it ever occur to you that your crashed hard drive was not the fault of Ubuntu but bad luck? There seem to be no other users who have had similar expierences, so it is little bit unfair to blame a distribution which works for the rest.There is difference if the distribution damages ones computer hardware (like one version of Mandrake Linux to one specific CD-drive did - the issue was fixed when it was discovered) or if it happens by sheer coincidence.
> they have active participation on "all" forums
Which is a sign that for them this distribution just works.• Re: Correction -- my apologies (by Lanx on 2005-03-03 10:36:42 GMT from Germany)
Did it ever occur to you that your crashed hard drive was not the fault of Ubuntu but bad luck? There seem to be no other users who have had similar expierences, so it is little bit unfair to blame a distribution which works for the rest.There is difference if the distribution damages ones computer hardware (like one version of Mandrake Linux to one specific CD-drive did - the issue was fixed when it was discovered) or if it happens by sheer coincidence.
> they have active participation on "all" forums
Which is a sign that for them this distribution just works.• Re: Correction -- my apologies (by Lanx on 2005-03-03 11:02:16 GMT from Germany)
Did it ever occur to you that your crashed hard drive was not the fault of Ubuntu but bad luck? There seem to be no other users who have had similar expierences, so it is little bit unfair to blame a distribution which works for the rest.There is difference if the distribution damages ones computer hardware (like one version of Mandrake Linux to one specific CD-drive did - the issue was fixed when it was discovered) or if it happens by sheer coincidence.
> they have active participation on "all" forums
Which is a sign that for them this distribution just works.• winsnomore (by Gnobian_Ken00bie on 2005-03-03 12:31:13 GMT from United States)
I do hope that rather than merely using this as an excuse to bash a product - a product that I note has pleased a great many users who have experienced none of your own unfortunate difficulties - that you also passed along the specific problems you had - not just that your hard drive was "trashed", but e.g. "Grub error 17", along with some information on your hardware specifications, so that other users may be spared similar problems - or be informed perhaps that with your particular specs, they may anticipate difficulties, rather than being given the blatant FUD that Ubuntu is just bad - contrary to so many others who've had a wonderful experience.
No one is saying that whatever problems you encountered happened "by design" but it seems to me to evince ridiculous naivete or else blatant disingenuousness to suggest that difficulties like this come as a complete surprise.
For my part, I've had little or no problem installing Ubuntu on a variety of boxen, old and new, including x86 and amd64 (I haven't done a Mac install though.) On the other hand, on one occasion, I even had problem with Knoppix. Now, I could share many, many success stories with Knoppix, and I consider it one of the most powerful and reliable software tools on the planet, but sometimes software and hardware just seem not to get along.
Incidentally, one of the reasons that we do find these problems is something that newbies need to understand: when you buy a machine with M$ pre-installed, the OEM has put a great deal of work into making all of he hardware and all of the software "just work". It's a trial for them sometimes - and they pass the cost of that work onto you - but when you boot the machine up, you don't even have to think about it. That and the fact that device manufacturers rush to make drivers available for Windoze are among the biggest advantages of that platform. As GNU/Linux (and *BSD) grow, the situation will no doubt improve, but whenever you DO have a success booting an operating system onto a machine that didn't have it pre-installed and whose manufacturers gave no special considertion to the makers of that OS, you should consider how much work went into ensuring the compatibility of the software side. Props to Knoppix. Props to Kudzu. And yes, props to MEPIS as well.• Vector Linux (by Robert on 2005-03-03 17:36:45 GMT from United States)
I do not see anything written about Vector Linux SOHO 5.0? I just installed it. I am just recently initiated into the Linux world so let me put a disclaimer on my opinions listed here. I am in no way a "expert" but I have tried many Linux distros in the last couple of months. Does anyone know if you can format your hard drive too much because it seems I try a new distro every week!! I love Distro watch. This is the best site for a newbie like me. All of the distros that are out, reviews and info. An invaluable resource!!Thanks!!
Back to Vector Linux. I have used mostly Mepis 3.3 beta and now the released version. I liked it but it was not the most stable platform and some things about it left me wanting more. Of all of the distros I tried before Mepis was great. Easy for a Newbie while still being somewhat cutting edge.
Vector Linux installs in 15 minutes or so! Really fast install. If you can figure out a text partitioner then you can install vector pretty easy. There were a few things I had to configure and I am still looking on how to play dvds. Not familiar with Slapt-get yet. Other than that the performace of Vector is impressive. The stability and performance of Vector is impressive. It has KDE so I can tweek the look of the desktop easily.
I have not heard any comments but I think Vector Linux is great and may be the Windows replacement I have been looking for. Slackware is great but the speed of the Vector install and work the team has done is impressive. A five star rating! At least until I find the next distro! Thanks to distrowatch I have become a distro junkie. I love this site and Linux!!• winsnomore (by Gnobian_Ken00bie on 2005-03-03 18:08:40 GMT from United States)
I do hope that rather than merely using this as an excuse to bash a product - a product that I note has pleased a great many users who have experienced none of your own unfortunate difficulties - that you also passed along the specific problems you had - not just that your hard drive was "trashed", but e.g. "Grub error 17", along with some information on your hardware specifications, so that other users may be spared similar problems - or be informed perhaps that with your particular specs, they may anticipate difficulties, rather than being given the blatant FUD that Ubuntu is just bad - contrary to so many others who've had a wonderful experience.
No one is saying that whatever problems you encountered happened "by design" but it seems to me to evince ridiculous naivete or else blatant disingenuousness to suggest that difficulties like this come as a complete surprise.
For my part, I've had little or no problem installing Ubuntu on a variety of boxen, old and new, including x86 and amd64 (I haven't done a Mac install though.) On the other hand, on one occasion, I even had problem with Knoppix. Now, I could share many, many success stories with Knoppix, and I consider it one of the most powerful and reliable software tools on the planet, but sometimes software and hardware just seem not to get along.
Incidentally, one of the reasons that we do find these problems is something that newbies need to understand: when you buy a machine with M$ pre-installed, the OEM has put a great deal of work into making all of he hardware and all of the software "just work". It's a trial for them sometimes - and they pass the cost of that work onto you - but when you boot the machine up, you don't even have to think about it. That and the fact that device manufacturers rush to make drivers available for Windoze are among the biggest advantages of that platform. As GNU/Linux (and *BSD) grow, the situation will no doubt improve, but whenever you DO have a success booting an operating system onto a machine that didn't have it pre-installed and whose manufacturers gave no special considertion to the makers of that OS, you should consider how much work went into ensuring the compatibility of the software side. Props to Knoppix. Props to Kudzu. And yes, props to MEPIS as well.• winsnomore (by Gnobian_Ken00bie on 2005-03-03 18:08:52 GMT from United States)
I do hope that rather than merely using this as an excuse to bash a product - a product that I note has pleased a great many users who have experienced none of your own unfortunate difficulties - that you also passed along the specific problems you had - not just that your hard drive was "trashed", but e.g. "Grub error 17", along with some information on your hardware specifications, so that other users may be spared similar problems - or be informed perhaps that with your particular specs, they may anticipate difficulties, rather than being given the blatant FUD that Ubuntu is just bad - contrary to so many others who've had a wonderful experience.
No one is saying that whatever problems you encountered happened "by design" but it seems to me to evince ridiculous naivete or else blatant disingenuousness to suggest that difficulties like this come as a complete surprise.
For my part, I've had little or no problem installing Ubuntu on a variety of boxen, old and new, including x86 and amd64 (I haven't done a Mac install though.) On the other hand, on one occasion, I even had problem with Knoppix. Now, I could share many, many success stories with Knoppix, and I consider it one of the most powerful and reliable software tools on the planet, but sometimes software and hardware just seem not to get along.
Incidentally, one of the reasons that we do find these problems is something that newbies need to understand: when you buy a machine with M$ pre-installed, the OEM has put a great deal of work into making all of he hardware and all of the software "just work". It's a trial for them sometimes - and they pass the cost of that work onto you - but when you boot the machine up, you don't even have to think about it. That and the fact that device manufacturers rush to make drivers available for Windoze are among the biggest advantages of that platform. As GNU/Linux (and *BSD) grow, the situation will no doubt improve, but whenever you DO have a success booting an operating system onto a machine that didn't have it pre-installed and whose manufacturers gave no special considertion to the makers of that OS, you should consider how much work went into ensuring the compatibility of the software side. Props to Knoppix. Props to Kudzu. And yes, props to MEPIS as well.• winsnomore (by Gnobian_Ken00bie on 2005-03-03 18:09:01 GMT from United States)
I do hope that rather than merely using this as an excuse to bash a product - a product that I note has pleased a great many users who have experienced none of your own unfortunate difficulties - that you also passed along the specific problems you had - not just that your hard drive was "trashed", but e.g. "Grub error 17", along with some information on your hardware specifications, so that other users may be spared similar problems - or be informed perhaps that with your particular specs, they may anticipate difficulties, rather than being given the blatant FUD that Ubuntu is just bad - contrary to so many others who've had a wonderful experience.
No one is saying that whatever problems you encountered happened "by design" but it seems to me to evince ridiculous naivete or else blatant disingenuousness to suggest that difficulties like this come as a complete surprise.
For my part, I've had little or no problem installing Ubuntu on a variety of boxen, old and new, including x86 and amd64 (I haven't done a Mac install though.) On the other hand, on one occasion, I even had problem with Knoppix. Now, I could share many, many success stories with Knoppix, and I consider it one of the most powerful and reliable software tools on the planet, but sometimes software and hardware just seem not to get along.
Incidentally, one of the reasons that we do find these problems is something that newbies need to understand: when you buy a machine with M$ pre-installed, the OEM has put a great deal of work into making all of he hardware and all of the software "just work". It's a trial for them sometimes - and they pass the cost of that work onto you - but when you boot the machine up, you don't even have to think about it. That and the fact that device manufacturers rush to make drivers available for Windoze are among the biggest advantages of that platform. As GNU/Linux (and *BSD) grow, the situation will no doubt improve, but whenever you DO have a success booting an operating system onto a machine that didn't have it pre-installed and whose manufacturers gave no special considertion to the makers of that OS, you should consider how much work went into ensuring the compatibility of the software side. Props to Knoppix. Props to Kudzu. And yes, props to MEPIS as well.• winsnomore's trashed HDD (by Gnobian_Ken00bie on 2005-03-03 18:15:36 GMT from United States)
I do hope that rather than merely using this as an excuse to bash a product - a product that I note has pleased a great many users who have experienced none of your own unfortunate difficulties - that you also passed along the specific problems you had - not just that your hard drive was "trashed", but e.g. "Grub error 17", along with some information on your hardware specifications, so that other users may be spared similar problems - or be informed perhaps that with your particular specs, they may anticipate difficulties, rather than being given the blatant FUD that Ubuntu is just bad - contrary to so many others who've had a wonderful experience.
No one is saying that whatever problems you encountered happened "by design" but it seems to me to evince ridiculous naivete or else blatant disingenuousness to suggest that difficulties like this come as a complete surprise.
For my part, I've had little or no problem installing Ubuntu on a variety of boxen, old and new, including x86 and amd64 (I haven't done a Mac install though.) On the other hand, on one occasion, I even had problem with Knoppix. Now, I could share many, many success stories with Knoppix, and I consider it one of the most powerful and reliable software tools on the planet, but sometimes software and hardware just seem not to get along.
Incidentally, one of the reasons that we do find these problems is something that newbies need to understand: when you buy a machine with M$ pre-installed, the OEM has put a great deal of work into making all of he hardware and all of the software "just work". It's a trial for them sometimes - and they pass the cost of that work onto you - but when you boot the machine up, you don't even have to think about it. That and the fact that device manufacturers rush to make drivers available for Windoze are among the biggest advantages of that platform. As GNU/Linux (and *BSD) grow, the situation will no doubt improve, but whenever you DO have a success booting an operating system onto a machine that didn't have it pre-installed and whose manufacturers gave no special considertion to the makers of that OS, you should consider how much work went into ensuring the compatibility of the software side. Props to Knoppix. Props to Kudzu. And yes, props to MEPIS as well.• donation to ndiswrapper (by im_ka on 2005-03-04 17:47:05 GMT from Sweden)
nice to see a civilized discussion again.
i would like to propose the ndiswrapper project to receive a donation. they are doing a great job to get "unsupported" wlan cards working under linux. and they need money for buying hardware.
regards• donation to ndiswrapper (by im_ka on 2005-03-04 18:27:28 GMT from Sweden)
glad to see a civilized discussion.
i would like to propose the ndiswrapper project to receive a donation.
they are doing a great job making "unsupported" wlan cards work under linux, and they need money for buying cards.
regards• Useless complaining & relentless non-productive tirades (by xx on 2005-03-05 19:12:35 GMT from United States)
I have been reading Distrowatch since very close to the beginning. Ladislav Bodnar is to be thanked and congratulated for providing a well organized and constantly improving service to the international community. There is somethiing here for everyone.
Non-Unixlike o/s users
Individuals and organizations ( commercial and non-commercial ) trying to make the difficult decision to change operating systems have a place they can go without pressure to use a specific product and the ability to discover what is available. The tools are present to allow them to see what may fit their needs. There are many other benefits available.
Novices
Have a place where they can find links to sites that provide some training material, and the opportunity to find a distribution that may be more suitable than the one they are currently using . ( I actually know someone, who knew nothing about computing, that attempted to install a very early version of Debian on a relative recent P4 box. Sent him to Distrowatch, he found something more appropriate - short version is happy and intends to install Slackware soon. )
Experienced well seasoned
A place to keep up with the constantly changing Linux & Unixlike marketplace and help those of us who do not always get it right.
The one thing I am tired of seeing is the trashing of distributions. If a distribution does not work for you, let us know - politely - and inform the distribution itself so it may be fixed or you may be notified how to fix it yourself. There is at least one o/s that will not do this for you. If you believe that your favorite distribution is the greatest thing since 'sliced bread' tell us about it. ( I always enjoy the enthusiasm of satisfied customers whether paying or non-paying ) DO NOT TRASH another distribution just because you found one that fits your needs better than something else.
If you have complaints - CONTRIBUTE - there is much work to be done. Programming is only part of the work. If you cannot program, quality easy to understand instructions and other documentation are much needed and for the more adventurous testing, users always find things programmers cannot, because they do things programmers will not. The 10,000 + programs in Debian, sounds like there is need for 9000 + user guides and translations to other languages.
The nearly 500 distributions indicates that a very large number of people are needed to develope the future. Even if you have no complaints - contribute.
Linux has turned into a project that is growing and becoming a major force in global society and someday may take the lead and push technology. Contributing to any of the projects is making a contribution to the continued developement of human civilization.
Forgive me for rambling on, I very rarely comment or respond.
BE PRODUCTIVE - TURN YOUR COMPLAINTS INTO FUTURE IMPROVEMENTS.• Useless complaining & relentless non-productive tirades (by xx on 2005-03-05 19:20:30 GMT from United States)
I have been reading Distrowatch since very close to the beginning. Ladislav Bodnar is to be thanked and congratulated for providing a well organized and constantly improving service to the international community. There is somethiing here for everyone.
Non-Unixlike o/s users
Individuals and organizations ( commercial and non-commercial ) trying to make the difficult decision to change operating systems have a place they can go without pressure to use a specific product and the ability to discover what is available. The tools are present to allow them to see what may fit their needs. There are many other benefits available.
Novices
Have a place where they can find links to sites that provide some training material, and the opportunity to find a distribution that may be more suitable than the one they are currently using . ( I actually know someone, who knew nothing about computing, that attempted to install a very early version of Debian on a relative recent P4 box. Sent him to Distrowatch, he found something more appropriate - short version is happy and intends to install Slackware soon. )
Experienced well seasoned
A place to keep up with the constantly changing Linux & Unixlike marketplace and help those of us who do not always get it right.
The one thing I am tired of seeing is the trashing of distributions. If a distribution does not work for you, let us know - politely - and inform the distribution itself so it may be fixed or you may be notified how to fix it yourself. There is at least one o/s that will not do this for you. If you believe that your favorite distribution is the greatest thing since 'sliced bread' tell us about it. ( I always enjoy the enthusiasm of satisfied customers whether paying or non-paying ) DO NOT TRASH another distribution just because you found one that fits your needs better than something else.
If you have complaints - CONTRIBUTE - there is much work to be done. Programming is only part of the work. If you cannot program, quality easy to understand instructions and other documentation are much needed and for the more adventurous testing, users always find things programmers cannot, because they do things programmers will not. The 10,000 + programs in Debian, sounds like there is need for 9000 + user guides and translations to other languages.
The nearly 500 distributions indicates that a very large number of people are needed to develope the future. Even if you have no complaints - contribute.
Linux has turned into a project that is growing and becoming a major force in global society and someday may take the lead and push technology. Contributing to any of the projects is making a contribution to the continued developement of human civilization.
Forgive me for rambling on, I very rarely comment or respond.
BE PRODUCTIVE - TURN YOUR COMPLAINTS INTO FUTURE IMPROVEMENTS.• Useless complaining & relentless non-productive tirades (by xx on 2005-03-05 19:20:38 GMT from United States)
I have been reading Distrowatch since very close to the beginning. Ladislav Bodnar is to be thanked and congratulated for providing a well organized and constantly improving service to the international community. There is somethiing here for everyone.
Non-Unixlike o/s users
Individuals and organizations ( commercial and non-commercial ) trying to make the difficult decision to change operating systems have a place they can go without pressure to use a specific product and the ability to discover what is available. The tools are present to allow them to see what may fit their needs. There are many other benefits available.
Novices
Have a place where they can find links to sites that provide some training material, and the opportunity to find a distribution that may be more suitable than the one they are currently using . ( I actually know someone, who knew nothing about computing, that attempted to install a very early version of Debian on a relative recent P4 box. Sent him to Distrowatch, he found something more appropriate - short version is happy and intends to install Slackware soon. )
Experienced well seasoned
A place to keep up with the constantly changing Linux & Unixlike marketplace and help those of us who do not always get it right.
The one thing I am tired of seeing is the trashing of distributions. If a distribution does not work for you, let us know - politely - and inform the distribution itself so it may be fixed or you may be notified how to fix it yourself. There is at least one o/s that will not do this for you. If you believe that your favorite distribution is the greatest thing since 'sliced bread' tell us about it. ( I always enjoy the enthusiasm of satisfied customers whether paying or non-paying ) DO NOT TRASH another distribution just because you found one that fits your needs better than something else.
If you have complaints - CONTRIBUTE - there is much work to be done. Programming is only part of the work. If you cannot program, quality easy to understand instructions and other documentation are much needed and for the more adventurous testing, users always find things programmers cannot, because they do things programmers will not. The 10,000 + programs in Debian, sounds like there is need for 9000 + user guides and translations to other languages.
The nearly 500 distributions indicates that a very large number of people are needed to develope the future. Even if you have no complaints - contribute.
Linux has turned into a project that is growing and becoming a major force in global society and someday may take the lead and push technology. Contributing to any of the projects is making a contribution to the continued developement of human civilization.
Forgive me for rambling on, I very rarely comment or respond.
BE PRODUCTIVE - TURN YOUR COMPLAINTS INTO FUTURE IMPROVEMENTS.• A way to find the best Linux distro (by William Roddy on 2005-03-05 19:48:33 GMT from United States)
I have an idea. Let's all get together and kick the shit out of each other and the person who wins has the best distro.
No, no, on second thought let's all write essays on anything irrelevant and the one who uses the best grammar also uses the best Linux distro.
No, wait, there's a better way. Let's send a mole into all the Linux operations and see who's advertising, and the one who's not has the best distro.
No, I have a a sure-fire way. Let's ask all the people who make Linux distros what their political views are and chose our distro when we find someone who agrees with us.
Or, how about, let's judge the quality of the distro by how prompt they are with their newsletter.
I have a few questions:
1. How can any of you be so smugly definitive about anything, in such a fast-changing, ever-changing environment?
2. How can anyone "trash" a hard drive twice? Does "trash" now mean "unsuccessful installation"?
3. How did the world become such a bitch-first/condemn-now/ask-questions-later place?
4.How many of you are shills for Microsoft, sent here to cook up hate and discontent in the ranks of an otherwise impenetrable competitor?
Want to know what's wrong with Linux? I'll tell you, anyhow. It's a few recreational bitchers and a few Microsoft moles who seem determined to eliminate the most valuable asset of Linux: fun.
Some of you bloody geniuses out there, who place such high value upon your ability to see to the core of every issue, ought to use a little of your omnipotence to tone this forum down and get it back to sharing useful information, instead of allowing it sound like children in a school yard. If Linus let the conversations he has degenerate to this level, we'd all still be using Windows98.
If there were reincarnation, I would plead with the deity at hand not to send me back as a Linux developer because, aside from being a soldier, it appears to be the toughest, most thankless job in the world.
Ladislav, I know you're a fair person and I bowed to your reasoning when you didn't print my last letter. And I appreciate your kind wishes about my health. You are in a tough position. And I know this letter takes a similar tone, in that it is not precisely about a Linux distribution or distributions. Some of your kind readers have written to me, after reading my plea make this a place of sanity, instead of a place some people can go to throw out their weekly trash.
But I must say -- and this, of course, is only my opinion and may be shared by no others -- that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Your past reputation has been justly earned, by being fair and informative. You would do your readers a great service by swimming against the tide of factionalism and sensationalism that can be encouraged in the current environment.
As to my health, I'm out of hospital, not doing well, and cannot predict the ultimate outcome, though none of this (other than an occasional high-blood-pressure spike) is caused by this Web site.
P.S. I sent this on Saturday, so no one will read it anyhow.• A way to find the best Linux distro (by William Roddy on 2005-03-05 19:48:57 GMT from United States)
I have an idea. Let's all get together and kick the shit out of each other and the person who wins has the best distro.
No, no, on second thought let's all write essays on anything irrelevant and the one who uses the best grammar also uses the best Linux distro.
No, wait, there's a better way. Let's send a mole into all the Linux operations and see who's advertising, and the one who's not has the best distro.
No, I have a a sure-fire way. Let's ask all the people who make Linux distros what their political views are and chose our distro when we find someone who agrees with us.
Or, how about, let's judge the quality of the distro by how prompt they are with their newsletter.
I have a few questions:
1. How can any of you be so smugly definitive about anything, in such a fast-changing, ever-changing environment?
2. How can anyone "trash" a hard drive twice? Does "trash" now mean "unsuccessful installation"?
3. How did the world become such a bitch-first/condemn-now/ask-questions-later place?
4.How many of you are shills for Microsoft, sent here to cook up hate and discontent in the ranks of an otherwise impenetrable competitor?
Want to know what's wrong with Linux? I'll tell you, anyhow. It's a few recreational bitchers and a few Microsoft moles who seem determined to eliminate the most valuable asset of Linux: fun.
Some of you bloody geniuses out there, who place such high value upon your ability to see to the core of every issue, ought to use a little of your omnipotence to tone this forum down and get it back to sharing useful information, instead of allowing it sound like children in a school yard. If Linus let the conversations he has degenerate to this level, we'd all still be using Windows98.
If there were reincarnation, I would plead with the deity at hand not to send me back as a Linux developer because, aside from being a soldier, it appears to be the toughest, most thankless job in the world.
Ladislav, I know you're a fair person and I bowed to your reasoning when you didn't print my last letter. And I appreciate your kind wishes about my health. You are in a tough position. And I know this letter takes a similar tone, in that it is not precisely about a Linux distribution or distributions. Some of your kind readers have written to me, after reading my plea make this a place of sanity, instead of a place some people can go to throw out their weekly trash.
But I must say -- and this, of course, is only my opinion and may be shared by no others -- that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Your past reputation has been justly earned, by being fair and informative. You would do your readers a great service by swimming against the tide of factionalism and sensationalism that can be encouraged in the current environment.
As to my health, I'm out of hospital, not doing well, and cannot predict the ultimate outcome, though none of this (other than an occasional high-blood-pressure spike) is caused by this Web site.
P.S. I sent this on Saturday, so no one will read it anyhow.• A way to find the best Linux distro (by William Roddy on 2005-03-05 19:49:03 GMT from United States)
I have an idea. Let's all get together and kick the shit out of each other and the person who wins has the best distro.
No, no, on second thought let's all write essays on anything irrelevant and the one who uses the best grammar also uses the best Linux distro.
No, wait, there's a better way. Let's send a mole into all the Linux operations and see who's advertising, and the one who's not has the best distro.
No, I have a a sure-fire way. Let's ask all the people who make Linux distros what their political views are and chose our distro when we find someone who agrees with us.
Or, how about, let's judge the quality of the distro by how prompt they are with their newsletter.
I have a few questions:
1. How can any of you be so smugly definitive about anything, in such a fast-changing, ever-changing environment?
2. How can anyone "trash" a hard drive twice? Does "trash" now mean "unsuccessful installation"?
3. How did the world become such a bitch-first/condemn-now/ask-questions-later place?
4.How many of you are shills for Microsoft, sent here to cook up hate and discontent in the ranks of an otherwise impenetrable competitor?
Want to know what's wrong with Linux? I'll tell you, anyhow. It's a few recreational bitchers and a few Microsoft moles who seem determined to eliminate the most valuable asset of Linux: fun.
Some of you bloody geniuses out there, who place such high value upon your ability to see to the core of every issue, ought to use a little of your omnipotence to tone this forum down and get it back to sharing useful information, instead of allowing it sound like children in a school yard. If Linus let the conversations he has degenerate to this level, we'd all still be using Windows98.
If there were reincarnation, I would plead with the deity at hand not to send me back as a Linux developer because, aside from being a soldier, it appears to be the toughest, most thankless job in the world.
Ladislav, I know you're a fair person and I bowed to your reasoning when you didn't print my last letter. And I appreciate your kind wishes about my health. You are in a tough position. And I know this letter takes a similar tone, in that it is not precisely about a Linux distribution or distributions. Some of your kind readers have written to me, after reading my plea make this a place of sanity, instead of a place some people can go to throw out their weekly trash.
But I must say -- and this, of course, is only my opinion and may be shared by no others -- that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Your past reputation has been justly earned, by being fair and informative. You would do your readers a great service by swimming against the tide of factionalism and sensationalism that can be encouraged in the current environment.
As to my health, I'm out of hospital, not doing well, and cannot predict the ultimate outcome, though none of this (other than an occasional high-blood-pressure spike) is caused by this Web site.
P.S. I sent this on Saturday, so no one will read it anyhow.• Not a lot of comments (by Alex on 2005-03-06 07:37:52 GMT from United States)
I read this a while ago, I'm surprised there are no comments. This is unusual.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to Linspire 5 in the second half of March!
Number of Comments: 75
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
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Aurora OS
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