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1 • Complimenti per il sito! (by Fabio at 2004-11-08 10:43:18 GMT)
..e continuate così!!!!!!!
mi raccomando!
I want to congratulate with you for the site!
ciao!
Ivrea(TO)
Italy
2 • Boycott (by Eddy Nigg at 2004-11-08 11:10:48 GMT)
It takes some courage to issue a call to boycott a certain website (linuxtoday.com). More it takes, when this very website proudly presents every week the Linux distributions featured at distrowatch.com. Probably tens of thousands of visitors arrived that way at distrowatch, with linuxtoday as its referral, every month.
Linuxtoday adapted quickly with replacing the weekly distrowatch message with their own....But what about the advertisement of Microsoft? I somewhat agree with you, Ladislav, and a devoted site for Linux should not help to spread their lies. I never visited the Microsoft pages, but one thing my eyes catches strait away: The comparison of MS Business Server 2003 vs. RHEL ES 2.1. Wait a minute....RHEL 2.1 is not a new product, but MS 2003 is...So why not compare, lets say a RHEL 3.0 AS based distro with a Windows NT 4 / Windows 95? I hope you get my point...
So the "Linux Reference Center sponsored by Microsoft" can't be objective, which even my boss would know, if I had one. So why not let the Redmond based company spend some money on a Linux website? This is at least a good thing to do.....
Regards
Eddy Nigg
StartCom Linux at www.startcom.org
3 • GoblinX 1.0 (by Flavio de Oliveira at 2004-11-08 11:35:40 GMT)
Hi, thanks to include my distro at distrowatch... and also to include a screenshot of WindowMaker. I've included KDE and XFCE in GoblinX 1.0, too.
4 • Boycott - or ask for more funding...? (by Steffen at 2004-11-08 11:43:04 GMT)
In any newspaper, the editor is responsible for all content, including the advertisement. However, I believe that the editor should not restrict advertisement content, unless this is based on a general principle for the newspaper. The way I see it, there are therefore three aspects to this:
1) LinuxDesktop may ban all review of proprietary software, on the general grounds that they believe (as the FSF) that proprietary software is wrong.
2) LinuxDesktop may take down the Microsoft ad, on the grounds that it is misleading the public with its information - i.e. comparing RHEL 2.1 with MS 2003.
3) LinuxDesktop may decide that their readers should be intelligent enough to discern between right and wrong, and based on general principles of freedom of speech, they will allow MS, or any other company to advertise on their site, provided they pay for the ad, and that the ad clearly looks like an ad, not to be confused with general editorial content. And that the only principle to be applied is to check whether the ad is breaking any law - i.e. linking to child pornography, etc.
In this case, it is Linux, and the Linux users/followers who are threatening MS, not the other way around. If MS wants to fund Linux by advertising, I would encourage this!
5 • M$ unlimited resources (by Andrea at 2004-11-08 11:46:57 GMT)
I agree with you about boycotting linuxtoday.com, but I think that we should care more about boycotting MS...
Those ads seems to me just a way remember people of the MS omnipresence. They have unlimited finalcial resources, so they can do anything, perhaps even make a linux site say windows is better. I really hope in a future of true and healty competition in the OS sector, and i think that in order to achieve that we should get rid of microsoft (and minor others), which are known not to like legal competition and "normal" market shares.
Bye
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever heard about market failures? Windows is an example.
6 • @Steffen (by DebBSDJoe on 2004-11-08 12:19:25 GMT)
Quote: "LinuxDesktop may decide that their readers should be intelligent enough to discern between right and wrong, and based on general principles of freedom of speech, they will allow MS, or any other company to advertise on their site, provided they pay for the ad, and that the ad clearly looks like an ad, not to be confused with general editorial content. And that the only principle to be applied is to check whether the ad is breaking any law - i.e. linking to child pornography, etc."
If the ONLY prerequisite is that of a discerning mind WHY make child porn advertisers a pariah? Would NOT the readers/users be able to in your words "discern between right and wrong"?
by the same token i.e. your philosophical take, would NOT the forbidding, prohibition or disallowance of child porn, adult porn or racist or whatever other socially, politically, racially "offensive" advertisements, propaganda or related material be an act tantamount to DENYING folks who peddle them their "freedom of speech"? ;)
7 • RE: linuxtoday Boycott (by Dan at 2004-11-08 12:24:47 GMT)
I applaud your efforts Lad. I was very disappointed to see this FUD appear on such a popular linux site. It is especially bad, because linuxtoday is now bookmarked in firefox by default.
I can't believe that anyone could possibly argue this. There is no doubt that the articles on the site are impartital. At any given moment, they have an anti m$ article posted. But as Lad pointed out, it's about the bigger picture. The fact that this company is profiting from these ads, shows that they have no concern for the community, and are just in it for the money.
8 • A disclaimer (by Ariszló at 2004-11-08 12:46:13 GMT)
A disclaimer with large letters that the ads do not reflect LinuxToday's views might slightly improve their reputation.
9 • GoblinX (by Mike on 2004-11-08 13:10:41 GMT)
It's nice to see a distro making an effort to prettify the desktop. Most of them - even some of the biggest names - just seem to use the default look for KDE/Gnome. It's always disheartening to see that stupid KDE digital-effect clock in the corner of the screenshot.
10 • MEPIS: The Holy Grail With Poisoned Wine (by manchine on 2004-11-08 13:47:19 GMT)
"Anyone with one eye to see with could tell that Warren is an American residing in West Virginia, and as he is the one responsible for the creation of mepis - it at the very least has an American genesis. So if he chooses to reach out to help the families of military people who are themselves in no way responsible for this little war that so enrages you, shove off! It is none of your concern."
A leading Mepis user
"I say thank you from the bottom of my heart. As far as everyone else, if it wasn't for the land of the brave, we wouldn't be the home of the free."
Another Mepis user.
http://www.mepis.org/node/view/4053
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:C4FFoJxq00AJ:mepislovers.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php%3Ftopic_id%3D1224%26forum%3D8+mepis+offer+military&hl=en
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:d7a2SZykiVcJ:www.mepis.org/node/view/4053+mepis+offer+military&hl=en
Since I have decided to take on Linux in late 2002, one of the first hobbies I started to develop was a permanent seeking for the so called desktop "holy grail". I became so amazed with the possibilities open *before* me, that I felt like bringing everyone I could to this side of computing, to break hegemony of the thicky Windows.
Beginning with Mandrake 9.0, I quickly moved through many other distributions, while keeping my first choice as a productive workstation. On the most diverse machines, I have experienced/played with and learned from countless ways of packaging this GNU/Linux thing.
I have tasted all main flavours available and most of their offspring. Despite my best efforts, and usualy due to minor reasons (winmodem issues, device mount issues, apps missing issues, etc), all my attempts to devise individual or small business migrations failed. A growing sense of frustration became so unbearable that last summer I was about to give up on these missionary actions. Until I found MEPIS and was hugely impressed from the first boot on.
Of course it wouldn't be my distro of usage, considering that I can hack enough to manage Debian, Slackware or Fedora (the stuff I use more often), but it brilliantly addresses a major lack in almost all other ways of building GNU/Linux. In most cases it "just works out of the box", has a superb hardware detection capability, WAS under a process of internationalization, brings neat GUI's to let novices finetune the system with nearly no harm, is an installable live-cd... In a sum, its author desgined the solution I was asking for. No other OS on Earth is this easy to install.
The technical merits of MEPIS, from an end-user perspective, cannot be found elsewhere and are absolutely outstanding. Although some purists may disagree, this is how MEPIS works. Where other desktop approaches fail, MEPIS just hits the target (there are many third-party reviews which can confirm what I am writting).
Now the bad and outrageous news.
Being a one-man production (not creation), MEPIS has no democratic ground where strategic decisions concerning its development could be openly debated, voted about and decided. It grows according to the author's will, and against this one cannot do much more than outcry and desert, especially when such a decision is clearly imposed from top to bottom by a typical hierarchical command chain, like in the... Military.
On November the 4th, under reasons that Reasoning is not aware of, the author has announced a plan to offer MEPIS to the US Military Personnel for free, an attitude he already knew wouldn't be exactly popular. This sudden steer in MEPIS development and spreading POLICY has, of course, caused a tremendous earthquake among people who, like me, do not to want any kind of US armed forces commitment whatsoever in a supposedly worldwide project. My personal reaction on the appropriate places, mainly the "general topics" forum at mepislovers.com (not a dating site, as one would think), was immediatly followed by polite censorship, at first, and open slandering, when the thread was already a bit grown, from exactly the 2 leading "lieutenants" I was expecting. I then asked the webmaster to delete my account.
The major motivation for such an extreme overrreaction at my protest is rooted, in my opinion, deep within the non-collective nature of the project and the autocratic way some people rule the incipient "community". First of all, the mere expression of a refusal towards the establishment was implicitly labeled as an attempt to politicize MEPIS, something the author himself HAD DONE by sponsoring the US Military.
The usual philistine hypocrisy undercovered by artificial "cool friendship"...
From a simple legislative viewpoint, the GPL exists to grant the 4 main liberties we all are, more or less, familiar with. The author of MEPIS has the individual and commercial right to give away free copies of his product to whoever he wants to. He could have decided to ship an entire bulk to Laden's shelter in the Afghan mountains, or to the 100.000 Iraqi families who have lost some beloved one because of this ongoing "democratic" genocide. It would be a controversial measure, anyways, since "true" US patriots would never agree with such a "betrayal".
My point in writing this article is quite clear. To deal with Linux and FOSS conveys a certain degree of ethics which largely surpasses the trivial religious schims in technology. To openly support the US Military, whatever the motivation might be, is not the same as supplying free copies to starving African American children in some peripheral ghettos across that country.
It might be argued that Mandrakesoft is also following the same pattern by celebrating a very specific trade agreement with the French Ministry of Defence, the CIVIL institution supervising armed forces, involved in the Ivory Coast conflict since 2002.
In many places around the globe, local companies keep tight links with many sorts of political institutions, but none has ever directly sponsored the Military.
In brief: when choosing MEPIS, a user must be aware of the causes it officially supports, far beyond the undoubtful technical virtues it provides.
Anyone standing for peace, equality and social welfare wherever, shall by no means use MEPIS or SimplyMEPIS. It is a matter of conscience.
For many of us, this was the same guideline that led us towards Linux and Free Softawre.
Manchine,
Former user, supporter and portuguese translator of SimplyMEPIS.
11 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-11-08 13:54:56 GMT)
"So the 'Linux Reference Center sponsored by Microsoft' can't be objective, which even my boss would know, if I had one."
Actually, I don't think that's correct.
If you are in a network management position reporting to a VP (fairly common in the U.S., at least), chances are the VP wouldnt catch on to the idea that a Win2K3 vs RHEL 2.1 comparison isn't fair. Most VPs would be hard pressed to name the current version of any Linux distro.
The higher up you go, the less liekly you are to deal with the nuts and bolts of any situation.
12 • RE: LinuxToday.com Boycott (by SyntaxError at 2004-11-08 14:16:51 GMT)
Ladislav,
I am with you on this one.
Keep up the good work with your site 'cause I really enjoy coming here for news about Linux/BSD distro :)
Thanks a bunch!
13 • RE: MEPIS (by ladislav at 2004-11-08 14:27:08 GMT)
Guys, please keep politics out of here. There is a long thread about this one on the MEPIS forum, so continue discussing it there. All posts mentioning anything about the US army or related matters will be deleted.
14 • Manchine! (by Capricorn on 2004-11-08 15:55:55 GMT)
See you around Manchine!
What distro are you going to use? I am thinking about leaving Mepis and trying another one too. The reactions you received after your post gave me a whole new insight in people I thought I liked. I think I will give kanotix a shot.
Thanks for all the help you gave us mepis users.
15 • Default Look (by Ariszló at 2004-11-08 16:05:10 GMT)
Mike wrote: "Most of them - even some of the biggest names - just seem to use the default look for KDE/Gnome."
I like the default look of KDE/Gnome. In fact, I find it quite frustrating to be deprived of it when using a "big name" distro.
16 • Boycotting & Economics (by runner at 2004-11-08 16:07:14 GMT)
I just saw words "nothing if pure greed" and "in it for the money".
The question: Is it OK for somebody to start a company that wants to make money on Linux, with purely commercial goals, without giving anything back to the “community”. Legally of course it's OK, but should the “Linux activists” get worried?
Obviously, by supporting OSS projects, companies are collectively securing the future of OSS development, and the question really is down to free riding.
But should companies and people be allowed to free ride on Linux? Millions of individuals do free ride on Linux, but even then, they are the cumulative force that spreads Linux, and this creates network externalities that support Linux. Which scenario is better? A) 0.1% of computer users use Linux and contribute to it, nobody free rides. B) 0.1% Use and contribute, while 10 % Free rides. I think scenario B would be better for obvious reasons (say hardware support).
Now, would this apply to companies? Is there anything good coming out from companies that make money on Linux with total disregard for the “community”? Imagine a group of cigar smoking MBAs wearing T-shirts with a slogan “Linux - Free as in BEER” and laughing out loud with a nasty money-making grin. I’d be inclined to think that the same logic does apply, and that this would just be extra exposure.
May also be true that if there is a small number of "Linux hawks", ready for boycotts, a bit more money will flow towards OSS projects. Even though it's not generosity anymore, but fear of punishment. I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere a million times, but I’d be happy to hear if anyone has any interesting views on this.
17 • back to basics (by manchine on 2004-11-08 16:12:34 GMT)
Capricorn,
Thanks for your positive fedback. I would say that to leave MEPIS this way is a bitter end, since i still belive it is built the right way.
Though not a distro making expert, i have enough techical knowledge to fork MEPIS, something many fellows in several mailinglists have advised me to. GPL and Free Software exists to let us do whatever we want with it. However, i would not feel comfortable parasiting Warren's remarkable work.
I will be finetuning a pure debian (sarge) installation from scratch, and let's see what it yelds ;)
As to Kanotix, i find it quite ok and, basicaly, it ensure a great level of inmediate usability by anyone. The original Knoppix is also a masterpiece.
Check out this url and decide for yourself. I think it is the most comprehensive bootable/liveCD distro list ever published. Good luck!
http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php
Cheers,
Manchine.
18 • Linux Today (by mdl on 2004-11-08 16:53:18 GMT)
I no longer visit Linux Today and have not for a long time. I don't like the MS ads and the cluttered appearance of the site.
LXer.com is a great news site without all the garbage. Give it a try.
19 • censorship (by manchine on 2004-11-08 17:26:19 GMT)
I wonder where the hell can we debate linux-related topics...
Ladislav, did my last post about bootable/livCD distros contained any mention about the US Mi(piiiiiiiiiii)?
I thought Torquemada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torquemada) had died a few centuries ago.
20 • RE:MEPIS: The Holy Grail With Poisoned Wine (by Tyrone Miles at 2004-11-08 17:27:48 GMT)
Since when did Mepis become a non free OS? Always thought it was free (Unless you wanted to donate) to anyone who could download it?
Has this changed?
Also what is wrong with supporting the troops and families of the troops. He is not supporting the Government it's self or the US defense dept.
Remember the troops (99% of them) didn't ask to go to Iraq, it's their job and what they get paid to do. (And paid very little at that) And if he didn't point out that the people were troops they would be looked at as regular people like the rest of us. At least Warren was honest and upfront in what he was doing.
21 • sorry (by manchine on 2004-11-08 17:29:33 GMT)
Strangely Firefox was not parsing the whole page. Delete my previous post, please. Truely sorry.
22 • RE:MEPIS: The Holy Grail With Poisoned Wine (by Tyrone Miles at 2004-11-08 17:30:59 GMT)
Since when did Mepis become a non free OS? Always thought it was free (Unless you wanted to donate) to anyone who could download it?
Has this changed?
Also what is wrong with supporting the troops and families of the troops. He is not supporting the Government it's self or the US defense dept.
Remember the troops (99% of them) didn't ask to go to Iraq, it's their job and what they get paid to do. (And paid very little at that) And if he didn't point out that the people were troops they would be looked at as regular people like the rest of us. At least Warren was honest and upfront in what he was doing.
23 • no context (by manchine on 2004-11-08 17:35:59 GMT)
Tyrone Miles,
Pure politics, not linux policies (decision making), shall be discussed elsewhere. In this point i fully agree with Ladislav. If you want, we can elabortate further on that topic in a proper place. Thank you.
Regards,
Manchine.
24 • Kudos... (by Jason Mock at 2004-11-08 18:06:47 GMT)
First I just want to say, as I've never actually commented on here before, but have been visiting your site for almost a whole year now, that I really love your site and it's between you and osnews.com that I get my daily dose of updates in the linux community. The kudos goes to, and agrees with the very early comment, of having the back bone to boycott LinuxToday.com. I totally agree that accepting funding from an anti-linux compain, whether it's microsoft or not, is simply nothing more than greed. Fortunately many of us do know enough to stear clear of the adds. To many of these companies jumping into the linux pool are too interested in profits to understand the priciple that the community is based on. Especially a set of ads, based on a case study using "fixed" condititions (as Novell nicely pointed out).
25 • No subject (by mcg on 2004-11-08 18:36:51 GMT)
hi agree with you Ladislav about linuxtoday.com,but we shouldn't care much about m$ and linuxtoday.com,because it makes them populer then.I think real linux user won't visit that page anymore and won't use m$ if he has not to use because of school or studing or programer,developer etc.
as for donating to Arch Linux,great idea and it is good of you!
Mepis and Ubuntu users,please stop comparing!well Mepis Linux has 1 developer,Ubuntu has team!they're both Debian based Linux,which means Debian Gnu/Linux is Great and LINUX is WONDERFUL! (of course FreeBSD,OpenBSD,NetBSD too!)
26 • LinuxToday and all else on the bashing of linux (by EEDOK at 2004-11-08 18:51:35 GMT)
Funny how http://humorix.org/articles/1999/12/linux-bashing/">this article was written almost 5 years ago and still holds true today.. LinuxToday must be laughing at their new advertising revenue from all the people checking out what all the fuss is about.
27 • MS FUD on Slashdot too?? (by Penguin on 2004-11-08 20:13:52 GMT)
What did this text mean:
...or any other so-called "Linux" site that helps with spreading anti-Linux propaganda (no, Slashdot is not considered a Linux web site)
So have there been MS FUD ads on Slashdot too? I have never noticed any myself.
LinuxToday.com is the largest Linux news site on the Internet.
Really? I've rarely visited it. I noticed that I didn't even have it in my bookmarks though I've collected plenty of Linux bookmarks of all sorts. There are just many other good Linux & IT sites that have suited me better, I guess. Like these ones:
http://www.linux-mag.com/
http://www.newsforge.com/
http://www.linux.com/
http://www.madpenguin.org/
http://www.osnews.com/
http://lwn.net/
http://www.linuxgazette.com/
etc.
Anyway, one potentially bad thing with such boycott campaigns is that any extra publicity, even if bad one, may give some free advertising too. An example: even I got now interested in taking a look at the LinuxToday site after the boycot announcement here and even added it to my bookmarks now too... Eh, stupid me, weren't we supposed to do the opposite? =) But I promise I probably won't visit it any more than before... ;)
28 • How about a reverse (by Anonymous on 2004-11-08 21:01:48 GMT)
How about Linux ads on an offical MS site? MSDN or what every else they have.
How about links leading to some nice charts and graphs showing the studies that have been conducted in an independent nature?
How may users would contribute to posting ads in an MS based magazine? I think quite a few. Just a thought.
29 • Oops... (by Penguin on 2004-11-08 21:14:39 GMT)
Sorry, I think I made some error with my italics tags in my previous comment above, and now all the comments after it show in italics.. I'm trying to fix that now. Or if that doesn't work (this still shows in italics), could Ladislav and co. perhaps do something about it (at least that such errors wouldn't cumulate to other posts too)?
30 • re: How about a reverse (by im_ka at 2004-11-08 22:37:57 GMT)
i support the idea!
31 • Linux2day etc (by gord at 2004-11-08 22:49:28 GMT)
How about a rival site WINDOWS-YESTERDAY.COM ???
Millions-of-dollars-wasted-by-my-government-IT-ignoramii.com??
.
I just keep asking MS what package manager they are standardising on, and where my make.conf has gone.
Good clean fun, and very economical, too.
I thought linuxtoday was merely an offshoot of VOA or USA-Today, hence my squid-ing it out.
32 • @mcg (by DebBSDJoe on 2004-11-09 00:46:14 GMT)
Quote: "Mepis and Ubuntu users,please stop comparing!well Mepis Linux has 1 developer,Ubuntu has team!"
Yeah, 1 devel Vs a team indeed. But you forgot Mepis had a 2 year or so HEADSTART OVER Ubuntu. ;) And that folks like Elleo do chip in whereever and in whatever ways they can. Warren is not exactly the sole devel like some efforts out there e.g. Pollix.
They are good for n00bs with uniquely different tastes i.e. DE/gui toolkit preference. NO DE wars here but I suppose it is a case of different folks, different STROKES =0) o_0
As for the dude who dumped Mepis because of a "patriotic" or "political" or "propagandistic" act or act of whatever nature and motivation by Warren, you are entitled to what you want to believe and is FREE to use and enjoy the distro or flavour (with regards to the *BSDs) of your choosing. No one is stopping you. But if the MS ads on linuxtoday.com constitute at all a form of propaganda or is contrued as such that necessitates affirmative action in the form of a boycott by GNU/Linux or Linux users, would not your rant qualify us in proscribing you for your political lecture (i.e. the listing of your grievance against the political stance and donation of Warren's)?
I wonder since when did we start making the political convictions of a distro's founder/s, devel/s, package maintainers, or lead user/s a criterion in our "buying" (i.e. adoption) decision process? Should we all follow the dude's (manchine's) lead and do likewise? Otherwise, I cannot understand the motivations on why he needed at all to share what he shraed with us above unless it was but really a subtle attempt at subtle cognitive reorganization or subtledly put - an attempt at (subtlely though) the political brainwashing of distrowatch's readership.
Just me 2 cents. ;)
33 • Further on Ladislav's call for action (by DebBSDJoe on 2004-11-09 01:07:56 GMT)
I'll state my stand here and now. I confessed to being one who does occasionally visit linuxtoday.com but I'll heed Ladislav's call and refrain from doing so until the site drops the unsubstantiated propaganda pieces/studies/research (call it what you like) whose bases are questionable. But this is just my own decision. Others may and can choose to agree or disagree with such a position.
There has been sentiments expressing delight at linuxtoday's acceptance of MS dollars for those dubious "studies"/ads in that these $s actually helps towards promoting the cause/s of GNU/Linux but if such a stance can be accepted as sound, so must we also not bar peddlers of child porn, adult porn, racist organizations, etc from sponsoring or placing their advertisements or preaching their dark messages on Linux websites. For WHY DENY revenue if revenue (for) is so desired in that it can "help further the advance and spread of GNU/Linux?
Also would NOT if one selects to have an ABSOLUTIST as opposed to RELATIVISTIC take on FREEDOM, would NOT the refusal to carry ads, propaganda and other promotional gimicks of institutions and individuals supporting porn, inciting racial and religious hatred be DENYING these institutions and individuals their FREEDOMs of Expression, Action and Speech (by the definition of the ABSOLUTISTS that is)?
34 • Linux on windows (by Vacendak at 2004-11-09 01:18:55 GMT)
The DSL thing looks cool but I found this http://www.metropipe.net/ProductsPVPM.shtml which is a jump drive distro that also boots under windows. Just copy to your drive then stick in any windows or linux box mount the drive and click on the icon and it boots up linux this company uses DSL as the distro but what is really cool is you put any live distro that will fit on the jump drive and rename it mydsl.iso and you are booting into the distro of your choice. It also saves all your settings so if you need to check your mail you can stick it in any box and read and save your mail with ease. They say the next release will also have support for OS X
35 • Boycot pathetic ?! (by MichielioZ at 2004-11-09 02:12:01 GMT)
"Welcome children, it's time to boycot LinuxToday.com, 'cause they are EVIL and just NOT NICE to our kind of people..."
Sorry, but that's what I read, when I read the boycot.
If people want to believe LinuxToday, let them believe...
If people want to believe Distrowatch, let them believe...
Let's all just try to make linux SO GOOD, that people don't care about these things... don't make people BELIEVE, make them KNOW !
36 • Progress report (by William Roddy on 2004-11-09 06:14:40 GMT)
Last week, I spent what was, for me, an inordinate amount of time in an attempted to encourage the softening of the rhetoric in the postings that appear here. A few kind people joined the idea. However, there are those of you who have chosen to make this your own personal battleground for others to stumble upon unexpectedly, an ambush, if you will. Last week, some of these same people criticized the anonymity of others, yet use farcical noms de keyboard to disguise themselves.
Some of you billow and shake like self-righteous, self-igniting volcanoes. Others of you allow yourselves to be lured into pointless, endless debates about why one should or should not use a distribution or a Web site. And for what? Is that box of rocks you've filled with someone else's ones and zeros really so important that we need to defend it like a Medieval fortress?
Today, an old, ill man, I received the news that I will now have to sit in front of this computer for what remains of my life with constant oxygen flowing into my face, tethered by tubes dangling from me, while I try to find something of value between the asinine ravings of people who are madly in love with the view of their own words spilling down the page of this site.
I did not come to a Linux site, nor do I chose to go to any other site, to listen to amateur or professional political rants, on ANY topic. I do not come to any place to listen to my country, my hobby, and my friends be cheapened, degraded, or insulted. If I want to listen to the snarls and whines of hungry animals, I will visit a zoo.
When I am reading a site that is dedicated to one topic and I am absolutely blindsided by people who use that site to criticize things I hold dear, I feel duped, cheated, defrauded. I am being driven from DistroWatch — and that is what is happening -- not because if its essential qualities, nor the motives of its owner. I am being driven from this site for reasons more important to me than a proposed, voluntary boycott.
Having asked politely, more than once, and having been ignored — which was embarrassing enough for me -- I won't make the same request again. It falls within the realm of fairness for you to not wish to temper the discussion and guide it back to GNU/Linux, a strong array of BSD, and other open source activities. But for me, that is a mistake, and making the same mistake over and over is fool's folly. This is akin to going to ircphotos.com, hovering over the photo of a naked person, and arguing about the man who would be President!
So, since I am too old and sick to fight another war (no, not Vietman, a war before that) and since I have little enough time left to learn about Linux, I will leave this escalating battlefield while I still have a life. And I can no longer recommend it to the young people of the community, to whom I give free copies of many kinds of Linux. I don't want to be a part of suggesting they watch adults behave this way.
Now, I will cuddle up with my shiny new oxygen bottles and take another handful of live-saving medication, every cent of every treatment paid for by the very country that never seems to be excluded as a point of contention in this GNU/Linux/BSD forum. And I will go directly to a list of distribution sites, instead of taking what had once been a pleasant detour. Or I will settle in with a books. Because, old fuddy-duddy that I am, some of you have made this site no longer tolerable to me.
But before you spew your giant rainbow yawn again, let me add, I am disabled by fighting by your right to say all these things and I am appalled by some of the things you are saying, yet, if I could, I would fight and die for your right, or the right of any human on earth, to be able to say as they chose.
Having said this, I would first like to apologize to Ladislav, as I leave off reading this site for the foreseeable future. But, my friend, it's become bad for my health. And second, I would recommend that Mr. Manchine and others who would like to praise or detract him, begin a Web site of their own, and perhaps call it www.LinuxPolitics.celeb, and let the rest of those young enough not to be exhausted by all this bullshit have a place to talk about the real aspects of Linux. I am sure LinuxPolitics would find a ready audience of two or three people who would visit there. For within those few words lies the rub: people of contentious persuasions do not find ready audiences anywhere without rudely interrupting the conversations of others.
To the rest of my friends, I beg your forgiveness, and wish you health, peace, prosparity, and possibilities.
37 • Your website with Firefox (by jimcooncat on 2004-11-09 11:40:10 GMT)
Y'know, the comments section of your website doesn't wrap correctly, at least in Firefox 0.9 on Windows. A horizontal scrollbar doesn't even pop up to let me read the last word on the right of the column.
I'm sure you're not trying to do make opposing viewpoints to your articles less readable ... but that was the first impression I had. Then again, I'm paranoid (but am I paranoid enough?)
38 • Linux on windows (by DSL user on 2004-11-09 11:59:15 GMT)
To Vacendak , the metropipe stuff also relied on QEMU. In fact, I don't see any differences from the original Embedded DSL. The only thing obvious is the package size. 82MB vs 50MB in Embedded DSL, why bother?
39 • Your website with Firefox (by DSL user on 2004-11-09 12:25:51 GMT)
To jimcooncat, I used everything minor update version of firefox since pheonix 0.1->firebird 0.7->firefox 1.0rc2 on windoze and linux platform to visit distrowatch without any problems. In your case, it could be a problem of display resolutions or video ram, have you tried firefox in other machines?
The only time when I experience problem to visit distrowatch is when I am in the public library where it only has the crap IE or the museum-class Netscape communicator 4.7x.
40 • Suse and Mandrake worse than Microsoft? (by mikkh at 2004-11-09 14:58:16 GMT)
Obviously on a Linux site, this may rattle a few feathers, but glancing at the Suse advert on the home page, I was once again reminded of why I won't have either on my PC - apart from the fact both run like bloated slugs on my AMD 2600.
Suse 9.2 £50+
Upgrade £40+
Assuming the 9.1 price was similar, anyone who upgrades has now spent the equivalent of XP Pro.
And if they've been a die hard fan before then, the TCO could be approaching 1K if they've purchased every new version for the last few years!
I know M$ are just as bad offering a piffling 'loyalty bonus' for owning a previous version, but at least they gave away SP2 which is practically a new version with all the changes in it. They could easily have hyped it and called it XP 2004 and made a few more billions for Billy boy.
And what are Suse people getting? A newer kernel? security fixes? Sounds suspiciously like a SP that they're making you pay for to me.
So come on Suse/Novell, Mandrake *and* Microsoft
Try rewarding loyal customers with at least a 50% discount
41 • Re: Your website with Firefox (by Ariszló at 2004-11-09 16:07:52 GMT)
Same problem here with Konqueror running on a machine with very new video card and very old monitor.
42 • RE: Progress report (by manchine on 2004-11-09 16:46:29 GMT)
William Roddy,
Since you have explicity mentioned me in your text, i claim for the right of self defence underkining for the 1000th time that it is not my intention to bring POLITICS, but rather POLICIES, to this place of open debate. Do i have to define both concepts over and over and over again? Is it a taboo to question certain POILICY orientations concerning this or that distro? Where else can we discuss the last Microshot unfair move towards GNU/Linux or MEPIS "special offer to th US military? In a gastronomy website?
I could provide a comprehensive and, probably insultant (from your insight) comment on your text, but i prefer to keep silent and respect your condition.
You are missing the essential points about these issues.
Stay fine.
Mnchine.
43 • it won't work (by PastorEd on 2004-11-09 17:13:16 GMT)
William Roddy,
You will probably never read this. But thank you for your service to your country.
Service is often misunderstood as weakness; moral, emotional, intellectual... the charge of weakness takes on many forms.
It has been my experience that those making accusations are often the ones who are trying to shore up their own self-worth. They are under the delusion that their attacks elevate themselves while decreasing the stature of their enemies.
They have it exactly backwards.
And I am quite sure that you realize this; I just wanted to express my gratitude for the support you have given your country. I am saddened by your news of your health and your departure; I would hope that a truly supportive community would be of benefit.
Please, if you happen to read this, come over and visit us at http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum and introduce yourself. You'll find a warm welcome from Linux users all over the world.
Living and Learning,
PastorEd
44 • Fedora Core 3 (by Rex at 2004-11-09 22:20:41 GMT)
is anyone else having problems trying to get the FC3 iso's at all ?
45 • Re: Your website with Firefox (by Tobu on 2004-11-10 15:00:58 GMT)
I confirm this, with firefox 1.0 vanilia profile and a 800*600 res. When I try to scroll right to see comments, I get whiteness. Selecting it allows me to show only part of it.
46 • BOYCOTT - Take actions! (by Moral and not being moral on 2004-11-10 16:04:13 GMT)
"LinuxToday quote:.... intelligent enough to discern between right and wrong, and based on general principles of freedom of speech,"
Many of the users here have expressed that it fine to accpet money as long as the linux name exixts there. I feel that is a gross misunderstanding of the distrowatch position that was clearl explained in the beginning of this page in response to messages like that
Q: Is money the only concern?
Q: Does it matter where money comes?
Q: Does the intention justify the menas?
This exactly the kind of quostion that raises every day in other fields. It is okay to kiss a fellow female employee, when you're married? Is it okay to take her to lunch or spend time with her if you're married. It is okay in general to FOOL AROUND with anyone, as long as the other party does not know?
Well, there are people that do not care about moral. Distrowatch does. Linuxtoday doesn't. The question is precisely from where the money comes, to whose pocket it goes and does the action really do good.
LinuxToday on the surface may seem to do good, but at the sae time it si annoyncing "We're not really interessted in Linux. We write stories, just to get cash in and we don't care what the advertisements say or do".
... and this is wrapped in more political correct form "free speech, we trust intelligent persons's" blah, böah, blah. What a smoe screen. And people buy that.
Since when Free speech has been free of politics? It isn't. If you expresses that "You don't care / LinuxToday doesn't care", then really - do don't really care the Linux and the politics behind it all.
Linux is about sharing. Community that does good. There is always people and companies that are ready to take advantage and turn everything int oprofit s as they sniff there is a chance to make money.
LinuxToday is one of them.
Do we really want to support such comanies? Or should we give support to other's that really do good for linux - From their heart.
I'm inpressed and proud that DistroWatch says what it thinks needs to be corrected. We all can affect the outcome. If we don't care to boycott, we really aren't driiving Linux forward and giving a message.
Actions speak from themselves. As has always been the case. I surely hope people would see the consequences of not caring about important issues.
47 • MS already won... (by rhiamom at 2004-11-10 18:26:33 GMT)
I am afraid that whether or not we boycott LT, M$ won the minute they got LT to accept an advertisement.
If we boycott, we have lost a well-known - perhaps the best-known - source of Linux news.
If we do not boycott, misleading advertising is promoted, website integrity is compromised, and none of the revenue is returned to the Linux community.
If we fight about whether to boycott or not, M$ has succeeded in the first step of a "divide and conquer" scheme to eliminate online Linux resources.
48 • Sam Live distro - very impressed (by mikkh at 2004-11-11 02:13:39 GMT)
I've seen a lot of live distros on here, but few manage to impress me - especially the Knoppix clones.
But here's a turn up for the books, a live CD based on Mandrake but only just over 200 MB and It uses the XFCE desktop.
I like the the look, the choice of programs and the excellent layout - very well done indeed
Go download it NOW
49 • simplymepis and winmodem (by lionel on 2004-11-11 06:51:11 GMT)
hello,
i am just curious , i want to know if anybody makes run a winmodem , esspecialy intel ham 536ep. Is. there a way to do this or only the classic way using the kernel sources (this are not present on the cd) and the .tgz driver?
any answers?I have dialup connection , hard to download the kernel sources... In my contry this kind of modems are very common because of price(very cheap modem).
50 • Sante Fe Linux (by Brian at 2004-11-12 21:49:43 GMT)
Is there any reason why you have not included Sante Fe Linux? I have not yet tried it yet. I am still looking for the perfect distro and was surprised that you did not have it on my most visited website.
Cheers!
51 • Last Majour Release is Debian? (by Any Moose on 2004-11-13 18:04:07 GMT)
>" With FreeBSD 5.3 out of the door and Fedora Core 3 just
>around the corner, there is only one major release to wait for
>this year - Debian 3.1 "Sarge".
Has the NetBSD 2.0 release been pushed back till next year or has someone forgotten about the most portable OS there is? While personally I'm looking forward more to the new Debian, I would still call it majour.
52 • how to create multiboot Linux Cd's (by Deepak at 2004-11-13 20:53:59 GMT)
hello all
on a side note to the current discussions, can anyone tell me how i can burn
Puppy
System Rescue CD
Slax
Vector Linux
(all iso's total make up for some 670 MB)
onto a single bootable CD
i.e. to say i can choose which live distro to boot from??
any ideas
thnx
deepak
Number of Comments: 52
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
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