 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 49, 17 May 2004 |
Welcome to this year's 20th edition of DistroWatch Weekly. It was a very busy weekend, with many new releases and, of course, the much awaited Fedora Core 2. Also new this week - due to continued abuse, all third-party page hit counters used to generate the popular Page Hit Ranking statistics on DistroWatch have been replaced with internal ones. More on the subject below.
Content:
Red Hat, Mandrakelinux, Debian in the news
The sudden influx of articles last week claiming how Linux users hate Red Hat took me by surprise. Is this true? Do we really hate Red Hat? Do any of you wish that the company just disappeared from earth and never returned?
Like any other activity group, the Linux world too has its share of eternal moaners who would never be happy even if they were given a complete, powerful and secure operating system for free. But moaning and hate are two vastly different things! Linux users are generally considered intelligent and knowledgeable people - even the most notorious complainers will surely realise that Linux would not be where it is today if there were no Red Hat, Inc. along the way. Red Hat has not only brought Linux to the server rooms across the world, it has actively contributed towards its development by employing some of the brightest developers the world has seen. The company constantly innovates, tests new features and integrates quality applications into its products. Yes, it has made some unpopular decisions over the last 2 years, but hate? I don't think so. It sounds more like an imagination of journalists who need a catchy topic for their next "feature" article. But I might be wrong, in which please state your case in the forum below.
In the meanwhile, some shoppers had a more valid reason to hate another Linux company - MandrakeSoft. Why? It turned out that a company in charge of processing credit card payments for items in the Mandrakestore had failed to acknowledge the presence of a decimal point in figures representing prices, and charged 100 times more than the agreed price! While this would surely anger any customer, it is important to realise that the fault does not lie with MandrakeSoft itself. Don't abandon MandrakeSoft now; although we all agree that it should pay more attention to the reputation of their business partners, this event was certainly not a deliberate attempt to overcharge customers. If you like Mandrakelinux, go ahead and buy it. If anything, the company has demonstrated the ability to resolve difficulties in the past, and this time will be no different.
And while on the subject of emotions, consider this sad event: a tragic death of two Debian developers - Manuel Estrada Sainz (ranty) and Andrés García (ErConde). They were killed in a car accident while returning from a Free Software conference held at Valencia, Spain.
In the light of this tragedy, do you still feel like complaining about companies that have devoted themselves to advancing Linux to the benefit of all of us?
Don't get "DistroWatched"!
If you are a developer of a Linux distribution, let this blog entry by the developers of Cobind Desktop serve as a warning:
"One week ago today, we put Cobind up on the web. When we did that, there were less than 100 entries on the search for 'cobind' on Google and our website was dead last. This week there are over 7000.
DistroWatch started covering Cobind on that day. A week later we're holding a steady #59 in the top 100 Linux distros on DistroWatch. We averaged 7592 page views per day for the week and our bandwidth usage neared a half terabyte for the night 3/25 - 3/26. I call that getting 'distrowatched'. Michal from Cornerhost called Friday morning and we had to shut down the downloads since they were eating the pipe. The bandwidth charge for that night alone was over a grand. The nice folks at Cometway worked all weekend to get our downloads online for us."
In short, don't ever assume that people won't bother downloading your distribution, and don't even think about submitting it to DistroWatch until you have several mirrors in place (or, at the very least, until you have a BitTorrent tracker set up and operational). The number of visitors on DistroWatch has now gone well past the 50,000-per-day mark, and while this is nowhere near Slashdot or other major sites, we are dealing with files of substantial sizes. If only 1% of those 50,000 people decide to download your 650MB ISO image, they will consume 325GB of your bandwidth! And if you offer 3 ISO images and 10% of the visitors want them, the bandwidth consumption goes up, theoretically speaking, to 10.5TB!
Consider yourself warned.
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| Released Last Week |
Onebase Linux 2004-r3, OnebaseGo 1.4
This is the third revision of Onebase Linux 2004: "We are pleased to announce revision 3 of Onebase 2004. This release features a number of package updates including improved kernel driver support and hardware detection. The installer itself has been given more polish and some issues were resolved. The most noted item of this release is OLM version 2.2.1, which comes with a significant amount of improvements. Although it is available for free download, We encourage you to buy this product to support Onebase growth." The release announcements: Onebase Linux 2004-r3, OnebaseGo 1.4 and OnebaseGo 1.4 Special Edition.
OpenLab Community Edition 3.0.5
OpenLab Community Edition is a Slackware-based South African Linux distribution, with KDE and Dropline GNOME, designed for general desktop use, and especially for deployments in schools around Africa: "Today DireqLearn released the community edition of our OpenLab distribution. We create systems and software for education, and OpenLab forms the basis of a lot of our work. It is currently in use in many schools in Nigeria and Namibia, where it is the system for the largest non-Microsoft school lab roll-out in African history: over 200 schools." Read the rest of the announcement and visit the project's web site to find out more.
PLD Live CD 0.95
This is a new and improved release from the PLD Live CD project: "I've released [PLD Live CD] 0.95. The main difference between 0.94 [and 0.95] is a newer kernel (2.6.6). nForce2 and Intel8{6,7}5 now works. I've also upgraded PCI ids for sound cards and added two more fluxbox styles in pretty profile. In general, if 0.94 works for you, you don't need to download this version. It's a bugfix release for nForce2 and some owners of Intel chips." Read the full announcement on the project's web site (now also available in English).
Sorcerer 20040512
A new Sorcerer Install/Rescue ISO images has been released. What's new? "There is a new menu item on kernel menu to select before compiling a kernel. The new entry displays system information which may discover and report some of the installed hardware. It may save the SA a minute or two of exploring /proc when installing on unknown hardware. Finally, the pre-compiled Install/Rescue kernel is now linux 2.6.6. That may work to the advantage of system administrators trying to install Sorcerer on extremely new hardware if the only drivers that support it are in linux 2.6.x." Read the rest of the announcement.
LAMPPIX 1.0
LAMPPIX is a new Linux live CD based on Knoppix and Damn Small Linux. It includes a web server (XAMPP), and it allows you to burn your PHP-based web projects onto CDs and give them away. The recipient then only needs to insert the CD and reboot to view your project or web site. Find more information about LAMPPIX on the distribution's home page, and in this readme file. The inaugural LAMPPIX 1.0 was released a few days ago.
Damn Small Linux 0.7
Damn Small Linux 0.7 has been released. What's new? "myDSL, an easy way to extend Damn Small Linux; added Synaptic download script; added gRun which replaced fbrun; fixed bug passing current video mode for hard drive install; added enhancements to emelfm; created extensions to install OpenOffice, AbiWord, GCombust, Samba, Ace of Penguins, GNU utils and Firefox. This release is the result of many hours of hard work by Robert Shingledecker and his correspondence with members of the DSL forums." The full changelog.
SystemRescueCD 0.2.13
A new version of SystemRescueCD has been released. Changes: "Updated the kernel to Linux-2.4.26 (patched with SATA support); improved FrameBuffer support (should work with Dell laptops); updated the FreeDos bootdisk; updated parted to 1.6.11, QtParted to 0.4.4, ntfsprogs to 1.9.2; added aget (download manager), iftop (network administration tool), zile (tiny emacs editor clone), bonnie++ (tiny benchmark tool), added par2cmdline (Parity Archive Volume Set v2); updated DBAN bootdisk, Clam-AntiVirus, hotplug; better SCSI hardware autodetection; many minor updates."
Buffalo Linux 1.2.2
A new version of Buffalo Linux is out: "Buffalo 1.2.2 has been released. The ISO includes kernel 2.6.6, a new improved Buffalo Desktop with Opera 7.50 and links to CrossOver Office 3.0. Also included is GNOME-2.6 as a bundle package. All packages are in sync with Slackware-current as of 14 May.�[34m| Many bug fixes (and probably some new ones to keep you entertained). A 47MB upgrade from 1.2.1 is also available for download." See the changelog for more details and a complete list of changes.
clusterKNOPPIX 3.4-2004-05-10
The clusterKNOPPIX distribution has been synched with KNOPPIX and updated to version 3.4. Changes: "Upgraded to 'testing' openMosix 2.4.26-om; upgraded gomd to CVS 20040508; fixed terminalserver/VMware problem in Knopper's release; added yafray, update-cluster; added host-ap, prism54; added support for Atheros Wireless, Cisco MPI 350 wireless (madwifi/airo-mpi); upgraded chpox to 0.6b2, tyd to 1.1, kernel to 2.6.6 (vanilla kernel, no openMosix kernel); added openMosixview icon and openMosix menu; updated logo." The full changelog."
Feather Linux 0.4.2
Feather Linux 0.4.2 has been released. From the changelog: "Added customisation ability - simply place all the .deb, .tgz and .tar.gz files in an /extra directory on your CD-ROM or USB stick, create a 'deblist' file which contains the names of the .debs and the order to install them, and then boot with 'knoppix custom'; added PSS, r self-written music server to stream music over your network; updated XMMS to 1.2.10; added Gaim script; Removed knoppix-terminalserver because of unsatisfied dependencies; downgraded libpcap and tcpdump to 0.7.2 because of PPP problems..."
Linux From Scratch 5.1
The LFS project has released Linux From Scratch, version 5.1: "The Linux From Scratch community is proud to announce the release of LFS-5.1. This patch release contains many bug fixes and package upgrades since LFS-5.0. In particular, this release features the Linux kernel 2.4.26, GNU C Library (glibc) 2.3.3 and the GNU Compiler Collection (gcc) 3.3.3. The book's layout has also been improved, leading to enhanced readability and improved clarity. You can read the book online, or download to read locally." Get the full scope from the official announcement, and the changelog from the book itself. Linux From Scratch (LFS) is a project that provides readers with the steps necessary to build a custom Linux system.
YES Linux 2.0.7
A new version of YES Linux has been released: "Announcing YES Linux 2.0.7 available now! YES Corporation would like the announce the immediate availability of YES Linux. YES Linux represents the first public release of YES Linux, the next generation of YES Server. All current development is focused on getting YES Linux to feature complete status. The major change is the upgrade of PostgreSQL to 7.4.2 samba to 3.0.4 and initial configuration of PostgreSQL and phpPgAdmin. Note: YES Linux is not yet considered complete or in beta a stage. Even though it is not complete YES Linux is currently being used in production environments and is capable of running a site." The full announcement.
Development and unannounced releases
Jollix 0.3 - an innovative Gentoo-based live CD
(full image size 118kB)
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
Fedora Core 2
Although the official announcement is not expected until Tuesday, 18 May, several news sites have reported the availability of Fedora Core 2 via BitTorrent. This is from Slashdot: "You can grab [Fedora Core 2] in both the 4 CD or DVD versions." The code name of Fedora Core 2 is reportedly "Tettnang" and, since this is a major new release eagerly anticipated by many users, we have taken the liberty to publish the Fedora Core 2 Release Notes on this web site (just to give you something to read while the long download completes). Enjoy your Tettnang, which, by the way, is a town and a major hop growing area in Germany :-)
Fedora Core 2 - finally arriving this week after a long development period
(full image size 190kB)
Miracle Linux 3.0
Japan's Miracle Linux has announced the release of Miracle Linux 3.0. It will be available on 11 June 2004 as a first release based on Asianux, a product created in cooperation with China's Red Flag Linux. Asianux is not available to general public. For more details, please read the official press release and visit the Miracle Linux product page (both links in Japanese).
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| Web Site News |
Page Hit Ranking changes
The long overdue move to internal page hit counters came into effect over the last weekend. The popular statistics that appear in the right column on the main page have been subject to much controversy and abuse in the past. Last week, further attempts to rig the results, and even discredit the ranking highlighted the need to switch over from the third-party counters provided by Sitemeter.com to internal counters.
For those who are new to DistroWatch, the counters on each distribution-specific pages have been used to monitor the popularity of distributions. The idea was to create a "contest" (or an ongoing online poll, if you like) between distributions to see which distribution pages on DistroWatch are visited most often. Unfortunately, a handful of undisciplined individuals were, from time to time, caught employing various tricks to increase the counts of their (favourite) distribution; the tricks ranged from "wgeting" the counter at regular intervals to placing invisible DistroWatch counters on their own web sites. Since a third-party counter can only give us so much control, we decided to switch to using our own internal counting mechanism to record page views.
To end all kinds of abuse once and for all, the rules have been somewhat tightened. From now on, only one hit per IP address per day will be counted on each distribution-specific page. The counters will be updated daily, about 25 minutes after midnight GMT, and the new ranking will be available at about the same time on the main page. The default time span remains at 6 months, but you can select a different time span, if you wish. As always, you can view a side-by-side ranking of the top 100 distributions during all available time spans on this page.
Revising the top 10 distributions
Do you think that our list of the top 10 distributions is accurate? Originally, the list was mostly based on the page hit ranking statistics, although general trends, presence in the media, public awareness, etc were also taken into account. Having looked through the list recently, I would personally lean towards dropping Lycoris Desktop/LX from the list, and replacing it with another distribution. Lycoris Desktop/LX seems to have lost focus, the only available desktop environment of their latest stable release is KDE 2.2.2 (which was originally released in November 2001!). Also, the distribution is increasingly commercial in nature, with a lot of the original Redmond Linux enthusiasm gone from the company. There are no more public beta releases, and no more free downloads either, except for a 45-day trial edition. All in all, I feel that except for a very pretty web site, there is little exciting going on at Lycoris nowadays. What do you think? Any objections against dropping Desktop/LX from the list and replacing it with another distribution?
If we decide to drop Lycoris, what do we replace it with? Both MEPIS and PCLinuxOS have established themselves firmly in the top ten (in terms of page hits), with both projects providing solid desktop-oriented operating systems, inclusive of many applications missing from most commercial distributions (NVIDIA, Flash, Java, etc). Both of them are free to download and use, and both of them have been getting rave reviews. Another product worth considering for the top 10 would be FreeBSD - it would probably make sense to include one of the BSDs on the list to show that there are alternatives to Linux. If you have any further suggestions, please state them in the forums below.
Revising tracked packages
June traditionally means a revision of tracked packages on DistroWatch. The dynamic world of open source software means that some packages fall out of favour or stop being developed, while new ideas result in excellent new software worth tracking. The current list of existing packages earmarked for removal, and suggested packages for inclusion are available on the packages page, but here is a quick list. To be removed: gnome-core, netkit-base, netscape and wu-ftpd; to be listed: audacity, bochs, firefox, module-init-tools, xorg, yum and zero-install. Any more suggestions, please discuss below or email me directly. I cannot guarantee that all packages will make it, but the most often requested packages will be included in the tables starting next month.
New additions
- OpenLab. OpenLab is a product of South Africa's DireqLearn, an organisation with a goal to make a significant positive impact on education in Africa. OpenLab is a thin client-enabled Linux distribution based on Slackware Linux, with major development on top, designed with an educational focus, but applicable to most other areas, and especially suited for desktop use. Some features of OpenLab: fully Slackware compatible; unique desktop themes give maximum user friendliness without sacrificing compatibility; integrated thin client support, no complex setup needed; 2.6 series kernel for maximum desktop performance; many DireqLearn enhancements; unique, simple and powerful system administration interface; KDE and Dropline GNOME.
- LAMPPIX. LAMPPIX is a Linux live CD based on Knoppix and Damn Small Linux. It comes with the XAMPP web server, MySQL database, PHP and Perl scripting languages, as well as other tools to run PHP-driven web pages directly off a CD-ROM.
New on the waiting list
- Necromantux. Necromantux is a Spanish live CD based on gnuLinEx, with additional packages from LinExDebs.
- Navyn OS. Navyn OS is GNU/Linux distribution based on Gentoo Linux. It serves as a live CD, although it also includes a program for installing Navyn OS on one's hard disk.
- Mayix LiveCD!. Mayix LiveCD! is a Gentoo-based live CD with networking, web services and recovery tools. Made in Guatemala.
DistroWatch database summary
- Number of Linux distributions in the database: 289
- Number of BSD distributions in the database: 6
- Number of discontinued distributions: 31
- Number of distributions on the waiting list: 79
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| Reader Feedback |
Site bugs
Several readers have reported problems with generating RSS feeds, as well as a non-functioning news filter on the main page. Please bear with me until I fix the bugs - the recent layout and counter changes on the site have, unfortunately, introduced a few new bugs into the code.
User comments on the main page
A reader inquired whether there were any plans to introduce user comments for each news item on the main page. The answer is "no". There are many excellent forums all over the Internet (e.g. LinuxQuestions.org or LinuxForums.org, just to mention two DistroWatch sponsors ;-), specifically designed for Linux-related discussions. I feel that adding a yet-another-forum would be redundant, especially while there are other priorities (hardly a day goes by without somebody asking for a feature to categorise distributions according to various criteria). Please remember that DistroWatch was created because there was no comprehensive site comparing and monitoring the many Linux distributions out there, and to-date, the focus is still on originality. If you want new features, please suggest something fresh, something original, something that doesn't exist elsewhere, rather than something that was copied from one of the thousands of other web sites on the Internet.
I hope you enjoyed this edition of DistroWatch Weekly and see you all next Monday (or Tuesday, if things don't go according to the plan :-)
Ladislav Bodnar
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Dropping Desktop L/X (by Vince on 2004-05-18 07:18:54 GMT)
As much as it pains me to agree (D/LX was my first "full-time use" distro), it does seem that it is terribly lagging in development, and the excuse that it doesn't matter what versions of KDE etc are being used as long as it is stable is running a bit thin. Perhaps when they release their next version (which I've been told will be with KDE3) and interest in the distro has increased again, then maybe it will be a different story, though from the looks of it their next release may only come around once the rest of the linux distros are using KDE4....
2 • FC2 Torrent 4CD - issues? (by Nick on 2004-05-18 07:34:57 GMT)
I've been trying the FC2 4CD torrent since it was posted on slashdot a few days back.. no luck.. is it overloaded or what gives?
Thanks
3 • Drop Desktop L/X, replace with FreeBSD (by David Matson at 2004-05-18 07:36:37 GMT)
Good idea! Since FreeBSD is in the top10 (look at the list sorted by last 1mo...), FreeBSD would be a great choice to replace Lycoris with.
4 • Desktop L/X (by John Wayne on 2004-05-18 07:37:56 GMT)
Good idea. The once vibrant community seems to have dwindled to nothing, on top of the dated nature of the distribution. Perhaps a good replacement would be either PCLinuxOS, MEPIS, Connectiva, Ark or Java Desktop System. All of which seem more suitable for the top 10 than Desktop L/X.
5 • Agreed - replace Desktop L/X with Mepis (by Andy on 2004-05-18 09:01:29 GMT)
I agree with the previous posters, and with your suggestion that Mepis be a replacement for L/X. Although I've only been using it for 5 days, I've found it to be excellent, and it's the first distro to detect (and successfully use) my winmodem.
Yes - L/X out, and Mepis in ...... :-)
6 • Desktop L/X out, FreeBSD in. (by JLB at 2004-05-18 09:03:39 GMT)
Seems quite fair to drop Desktop L/X for reasons already stated. Adding FreeBSD to DW was a great idea. Giving FreeBSD this billing is a wonderful idea and should be promoted further.
7 • Hate RedHat? Get a life. (by JLB at 2004-05-18 09:15:11 GMT)
Or at the very least.... read up on Redhat and make your own informed decisions rather than just mimic the sorry cries of others. I can understand being disgruntled with their past decisions. I don't like the direction RedHat has taken either. Therefore I choose not to buy their product. Thats the beauty of it all. CHOICE. You cannot say with a straight face RedHat has been bad for the Linux movement all these years. Be disgruntled, voice your opposition to what they do... but outright hate? Get a life.
8 • Red Hat claims it's desktop is only for moderate use. (by Ric de France at 2004-05-18 09:35:58 GMT)
--QUOTE--
Gus Robertson, vice-president of Linux distributor Red Hat's South Asia-Pacific region, says his system's desktop is suitable for people with moderate desktop computing needs: "It's not just about the operating system," Robertson says. "What we are delivering today is a solution that's aimed at a specific area of the enterprise space. If they are a power user who wants high-end design, or project management tools, this is not the solution yet."
--END QUOTE--
Source: http://theage.com.au/articles/2004/05/17/1084646114631.html
This hardly sounds like something Red Hat would be say. I was quite surprised to hear it. My understanding was that tools were already available for the power user in the form of Gimp, Blender3D, and MrProject.
On another point raised... I don't think that Red Hat is bad for Linux. Without them I would never have tried Linux, and that would be a BAD thing!
9 • Packages + distros (by Andrew Yeomans on 2004-05-18 09:47:07 GMT)
Agree with dropping Desktop/LX unless revised real soon now. I could not even get it to install on recent hardware.
Packages: another vote for Firefox and Audacity. I'll also propose nessus (as security is important), thunderbird (rising in popularity), frozen-bubble (essentials).
It would be great if you could add more multimedia and plug-ins, even if non-free, such as Java, Quick Time, Flash, Jabber.
10 • RedHat / Fedora Core (by KaZeKaMi on 2004-05-18 09:48:36 GMT)
I've been using RedHat since 7.1, and I learned a lot from using it. I tested other popular distros (Debian and Mandrake for example), and never feel like home while using those.
However, I think these are great distros, but not for me. I really prefer Fedora Core 1 over Mandrake 10.0
Don't feed the troll, it's my choice, and I'll be a RedHat user for long time.
11 • Hate RH? (by Luk van den Borne at 2004-05-18 09:55:01 GMT)
Why would I? The road they are taking would not be mine, but why hate them for the choices thay make? It's not like they are immoral or are violating human rights or anything liek that.
A common myth about the GPL is that it is anti-capitalistic. It is claimed by MS, SCO, etc. But it is NOT true. GPL allows you to ask as much money as you want for your products (or services). Both Linux users and non-linux users should realise this. RH is just trying to make use of this RIGHT.
12 • HATE REDHAT (by Lord-Storm on 2004-05-18 10:10:10 GMT)
I think it is the aproch that they have had. I personaly dont like it. Never had and NEVER WILL. Any company that burns their desktop users and focuses on Companys only will have a sharp pain. Take STEAM for example I hate it and think its a waist of space. Sure where would linux be without redhat.... DEBIAN BASED
13 • FreeBSD among Top Ten (by Ariszlo at 2004-05-18 10:11:56 GMT)
Yes, including one of the BSD flavors among the top ten is a good idea.
14 • FreeBSD in Top 10? (by Nikolay Landjev on 2004-05-18 12:09:09 GMT)
In my personal opinion FreeBSD should not be included in the Top10 list. The main purpose for this list is to make it easy for newbies to find which distro suits them best and FreeBSD is by no means suitable for newbies. Don't get me wrong, it's a great OS -- fast, secure and everything but it would be more useful to include MEPIS, Ark or JDS.
15 • Hate RedHat? (by Elijah at 2004-05-18 12:49:52 GMT)
Of course I don't hate RedHat. That's ridiculous. They of all companies, are about as true to GPL principles as they come. They have made some less than perfect decisions (to put it lightly), but in the end, it's clear that they've put a _ton_ of work into what we _all_ use and enjoy--be it a user of Debian, SuSE, Mandrake, Gentoo, or any of your other favorite distros.
16 • Mepis! (by Oaks on 2004-05-18 12:56:58 GMT)
If you decide to drop Lycoris (and, I think you should), replace it with MEPIS. MEPIS is a solid distro that keeps me coming back for more after (as always), I've tried whatever is the latest out there.
17 • RedHat and Lycoris (by Zipslack on 2004-05-18 13:09:04 GMT)
First of all, I probably wouldn't be here without my first exposure to Redhat 5.0. That got me started, and then I later switched over to Slackware. From Slack, I decided to go with Debian (in the past year). Do I hate Redhat? No. I just don't feel as comfortable with their products (yes, I've tried them each time a new version comes out). I also don't like having to download 3 or 4 CDs just to try it out. I greatly appreciate the work that Redhat has done to make Linux a viable choice. I've been using it as my main OS for 5+ years and experimented with it for about 3-4 years before that. I don't currently use RH or Fedora, but I'm glad they are there.
On the subject of Lycoris, I have to agree that it is pretty much a dead project and shouldn't be in the top 10. Unless you got a machine with Lycoris pre-installed, it just doesn't make sense to go with their product. I wouldn't have a problem with Mepis or FreeBSD being in the top 10 in its place. My vote would be for Mepis (what can I say? I'm Debian-biased) although I prefer Kanotix or Morphix.
Keep up the good work. Distrowatch is a great resource, and I, for one, appreciate the time and effort that is put into it.
18 • put conectiva in top 10 (by nichead at 2004-05-18 13:12:17 GMT)
conectiva is the innovative and widely used linux distribution in latin america!
19 • Replace Lycoris with MEPIS & add Autopackage to package list (by Andrew on 2004-05-18 15:35:06 GMT)
Subject says it all.
20 • MEPIS in! L/X out! (by Mac on 2004-05-18 15:44:14 GMT)
Both MEPIS and PClinuxOS are definitely HOT! But development in MEPIS continues at a great pace with innovative ideas. I may have to switch my full-time system (if Libranet 3.0 doesn't come out soon :)
Also, thanks for putting the bandwidth usage into perpective for me. I had a sense, but no true idea of the issues that are involved. With, more-or-less, unlimited download opportunity, I admittedly take it for granted (I do bittorrent and rsync though).
!!!Here's another reason to contribute to your favourite distros!!!!!
21 • Top 10 Distro's (by Pete on 2004-05-18 15:58:53 GMT)
I wont make a comment specific to which one should be added in place of Lycoris, all mention are worthy contenders. HPD seems to be an accurate rating for Top 10 Distros, which HPD should be used? I personally think the 12 month periord is a litte out of date.
How about a Top 10 and a few honerable mentions? Choose a marker 12, 6, 3 or 1 month and list the diff's between the 4 catagories as honerable mentions (something like that). That way people can get an idea of the new rising stars in the OSS community.
FYI: Let the bike shed debates begin.
22 • Re: Top 10 Distro's (by Pete on 2004-05-18 16:04:55 GMT)
Forgot to mention, my cheese little formula is meant to give an idea of a Top 10 list with a list of the new rising stars.
23 • Hate Redhat? not really, just dislike their business practice - Lycoris DROP! (by Tux at 2004-05-18 16:14:38 GMT)
I dont hate redhat, they contribute good codes to the community and projects too such as fedora, however i wish they would stay firm on their business direction, but who are we to tell them how to run business.
About Lycoris, yeah, they have been pretty jump off from development phase, and also the trial download really puts me off.
24 • put Damn Small Linux in the Top 10 (by BillH on 2004-05-18 16:46:57 GMT)
Damn Small Linux holds steady in 12th place overall. Pretty impressive for a sub-50 meg. distro. Frequent releases, large and active forum area and the ability to breathe life into older hardware all qualify this distro for a place in the Top 10.
25 • Fedora Core 2 Torrent worked fine for me (by Latch on 2004-05-18 17:23:59 GMT)
Grabbed FC2 in about 4 hours on Sunday.
26 • Ark in top 10 (by CJ on 2004-05-18 17:50:03 GMT)
Ark Linux is a very newbie friendly distro that should be considered for the top 10. They still have some bugs to work out, but all in all a nice desktop.
SLAX is a pretty popular one to think about also. If nothing else, you could make reference to it in the Slackware listing as means of testing without installing to hd.
27 • FreeBSD in Top 10? (by Steve on 2004-05-18 18:49:43 GMT)
Even though it's not Linux, I believe FreeBSD to absolutely be the easiest UNIX-like free O/S for a newbie to install and use. (I succeeded with FreeBSD after failing with RedHat, Mandrake, Corel) Why? 1) You can do a network install with only two floppies, no CD or CD burner needed 2) All doc's you need are right on the Freebsd.org website.
28 • DSL for Top 10 (by Teobromina on 2004-05-18 19:07:56 GMT)
I am in favour of Damn Small {DSL} wich has inspired a lot of mini/lives, and is improoving day by day. Nowadays it is already 'a classic', or becoming soon...
In fact after I have tried since long time ago all the 'big' monsters, the only linux system that presently I have installed is Feather, which is derived of DSL, because it suits better my prefferences *it installs in less that 10 minutes and have the essencial apps. The rest I usually download are 'lives', as DSL is.
I dislike to find in the best honour places distros that are mainly commercial oriented, because they are not following the soul of the Linux, that is, to be free.
A solution is not to include in the top 10 any commercial distro, and mark very clearly in the page of Distrowatch for any commercial distro a sign like that the 'toll' you find in the roads that are not free.
*/Teobromina/*
29 • top ten? (by stan on 2004-05-18 19:32:35 GMT)
top ten shouldnt be just the distros we personaly use and fulfill our needs
Shouldnt it be the top ten most acessable to new linux users and top ten most polished.
admitedly DSL is great, and it has wow factor of being able to run off a 50mb card, but then again i personaly use Austrumi for this because its got more usefull stuff for myself like MPlayer with all the codex and it loads to ram leaving the Cd free for films. Plus GIMP and Abiword.
thats just personal. As one of the top ten golden boys of Linux i would rate MEPIS and PClinuxOS over DSL for new users as an introduction that has everything for most peoples day to day use and is complete and well polished.
To me top ten is just a starting point to show off linux to potential new users
30 • TOP ten? (by Big Moron on 2004-05-18 20:18:05 GMT)
well...
Why not make a top 5... I mean...
The, "easy" top 5!
The, "mild" top 5!
The, "hard" top 5!
maybe even
The, "live" top 5!
The, "overall" top 5!
With so many distros and so many forms and aproaches there should be more than just a simple top 10... though I bet it will make things a little hard on you guys...
31 • Top Ten plus One (by weorthe on 2004-05-18 20:22:15 GMT)
I think you should replace Lycoris with Mepis. Connectiva and Ark (mentioned above) aren't popular enough on your site, and PCLinuxOS is still in Preview, I believe. You should ALSO have a Top BSD, which would be FreeBSD of course. Would that make everybody happy?
32 • Opinions for top ten (by Joel Ebel at 2004-05-18 20:35:08 GMT)
After looking at the statistics for some time, I have some opinions regarding the top ten distributions. Much has already been said, so I may be repeating some things, but nonetheless, here are my thoughts.
First off, the top seven are clear. The order may be adjusted, but I don't think anyone can argue about what the top 7 linux distributions are.
I do believe that Fedora should be listed alone, with perhaps a mention of RHEL, but it is Fedora that is really on the list. RHEL is no longer one of these top seven. Which brings me to another question I've had for some time. If we list RHEL, why aren't Mandrake and Suse's enterprise products also listed on distrowatch?
If we continue with a statistical "top ten" model, I would also consider removing Linspire and Xandros from the top ten list. They have not been in the top ten count for some time. Perhaps these last three could be replaced with Mepis, PCLinuxOS, and DSL. However, I don't really believe these are major distributions. They are all derivatives of major distributions. FreeBSD could be considered, but it hasn't been tracked long enough to be included from a statistical point of view.
Which brings me to another idea. Perhaps we should challenging the "top ten" philosophy. In fact, the page is named major distributions. Perhaps inclusion on the list should be by criteria of some sort. Here are some criteria I propose:
1. Must be statistically popular
2. Must be mature and stable both as an OS and as an organization. This also means that there should be a waiting period before a new distro can be considered a "Major Distribution"
3. Should be independent, rather than a derivative of another major distribution. An exception to this is for example Knoppix, which is a drastic innovation built upon an independent distribution's base.
This list doesn't necessarily have to be of length 10. That way arguing over what to replace a dying distro with is not necessary. Each distro can be independently analyzed for its worth.
By this method, again, there are 7 clear major linux distributions. All the others don't clearly meet the conditions. Xandros and Linspire could again be considered despite slightly lower popularity because they do meet the other criteria. Also, FreeBSD then becomes a major OS that is worthy of mention. Perhaps I haven't investigated enough, but by my criteria, PCLinuxOS and Mepis do not meet the criteria because they are derivitave distributions. I could be mistaken about the amount of innovation they have though, since I can't say I've tried either.
In summary, I suggest dropping the idea that there must be 10 on the list, and rather consider inclusion based on criteria, perhaps based on what I mentioned above. Based on my criteria, there are clearly 7 major linux distros, and the list could easily include FreeBSD, and perhaps still Xandros and Linspire, but probably not Mepis, PCLinuxOS or DSL because they are derivative works. In addition, RHEL should be considered separately, and removed from the list of major distributions. Also, if RHEL is to be a tracked distribution, then I feel that Mandrake and Suse enterprise products should as well, unless I misunderstand some distinction between them.
Thanks for bearing with me.
Joel Ebel
Maintainer of RUNT, a distribution that is clearly not "Major"
33 • DSL too Lite (by Nick on 2004-05-18 23:01:00 GMT)
DSL is a bit too lite for me. I was kinda offended by the implementation of busybox. (meaning it was too heavily stripped) Bash will never forgive us.
34 • Top Ten Distros (by Kanwar at 2004-05-19 00:38:00 GMT)
It really depends upon what your site is projecting. Your byline says Put the "fun" back into computing -- and by this measure, the top ten should be (not necessarily in the order below):
1. MandrakeLinux
2. SuSE
3. Xandros
4. PCLinuxOS
5. MEPIS
6. ArkLinux
7. Onebase
8. Knoppix
9. Sun JDS
10. Debian
Seriously Fedora does not deserve a ranking as high as seen on your site. It is painful to download (4 CDs and what not), no "fun" to run and hardly easy to sort all the RPM dependencies unless you have apt4rpm installed.
Also, Linspire is a sham. I have tried to install the developer version 4.5 and it hasn't recognized either my sound card or my modem! And I have an AMD XP 3000+ which is a modern set of hardware. I definitely expect more from a "Grandma's" Linux!
Anyways, these are my ramblings, YMMV.
Cheers.
35 • Response to Opinions for top ten by Joel Ebel (by RAZ at 2004-05-19 00:52:10 GMT)
I think that FreeBSD is very mature and should be in da top 10 list... although Distrowatch has just started following its development recently... FreeBSD existed long before and it is certainly a great OS...
36 • Questionable observations (by slon on 2004-05-19 03:10:36 GMT)
"Linux users are generally considered intelligent and knowledgeable people".
Really? By whom? I know that linux users consider themselves to be (sometimes WAY MORE) intelligent and knowledgeable people, but it's a far cry from your statement. FOX News fans also consider themselves very smart and well informed people. Does that mean that it's true? I doubt it.
37 • RE: Opinions for top ten (by ladislav at 2004-05-19 03:32:39 GMT)
Thank you for a very interesting comment, you have made several valid points.
The main reason why the list of major distributions is set to 10 is that a fixed number will give me a solid argument why I cannot include more distributions in the list. Over the past year or so, I've received requests to include Libranet, Vector, Turbolinux, even Linare in the list of major distributions. If I didn't have a fixed number for the list, it would be hard for me to argue that I cannot include any of those :-)
For the argument that the list should perhaps include only the clear top 7, I'd be against it. As we've seen with MEPIS and PCLinuxOS, there is a number of new distributions that are extremely popular with users, and I feel that giving these projects exposure would encourage competition and give the developers further desire to create the best distro available. Otherwise none of the new distributions would be able to enter the list, which is clearly not right.
As for listing the enterprise editions of SUSE, Mandrake etc, the main problem is that (last time I looked) SUSE provides very little technical information (e.g. packages lists) about their enterprise-range products. On the other hand, RHEL's source RPMs are all up on the mirrors, so we know what's included. Also, the Red Hat page includes all of the historical Red Hat Linux releases, which might be of interest to some visitors. But overall, I agree that we should drop Red Hat from the top 10 list, since Fedora is what most ex-Red Hat users are interested in nowadays.
I've also thought about removing Linspire from the list, since there just doesn't seem to be that much interest in a commercial distro when there are so many good free ones. But I might be wrong here - maybe those who use Linspire simply don't visit DistroWatch. We'll see.... Perhaps when PCLinuxOS goes stable, we'll discuss it again and, if people here agree, we'll include it in the list in place of Linspire.
On a separate note, I like the suggestion by "Big Moron" to create a few quick "top fives" for various categories to enhance the page.
Based on what we've discussed above, it seems that most users would prefer to see MEPIS instead of Desktop/LX, but there are also quite a few votes for FreeBSD. So how about this one: we'll indeed drop Desktop/LX, replace it with MEPIS, but also add FreeBSD as a honourable extra for those seeking a good alternative to Linux. Linspire will stay for the time being, but we'll revise things again once PCLinuxOS reaches 1.0 or 1.1. I'll also create a few top fives - top 5 live CDs, top 5 firewalls, top 5 server distributions, top 5 commercial distributions, top 5 whatever...
Any more ideas?
38 • Do It ! (by JLB at 2004-05-19 04:08:51 GMT)
Sounds like a decent plan to me Ladislav ! I like the idea of the honorable mention for FreeBSD. You are right... Making it visable as a worthy alternative to Linux is great and in the right spirit. Adding some top 5's is also a great idea. ( good idea moron ) . As for dropping Linspire..... It does have its place. From personal experience, it is a fine and easy to use Distro for a lot of folks new to MS alternatives. I would not jump the gun on dropping them. Wait a while before you decide.
39 • Top TEN Distros (by jim thompson at 2004-05-19 04:53:51 GMT)
you can definately count my vote for Mepis ! just tried Ark and its lacking , thats the key word here. kind of an interesting read on what people think should be top ten contenders. ive tried a lot of distros lately including Debian Woody and Sarge . the best of the bunch was and is mepis , whitch im posting this with. it detects hardware better than pure Debian of both flavors. it has everything i need including flash etcetra. and its installer is equal to or better than Mandrake and not half as bloated whitch makes it noticably a lot faster ! it may well be a dirivitave of a major distro, but for me as a relative newbie it sets the benchmark for others to match . i offed mandrake because its so mutch better . since this site is basically dedicated to personal linux , i believe the innovation of Mepis deserves a spot in the top ten. i can recommend it to anyone its that good. configuration is a major pain to newbies like myself . i havent needed to change a thing in mepis 10 . thats quite a boast for a linux distro i think. even though i keep playing with other distros , mainly to learn linux . Mepis is a clear keeper! nuf said regards to all jim
40 • Top 10 Change. (by Chad on 2004-05-19 05:02:36 GMT)
I'm for PCLinuxOS.
41 • To: jim thompson (by Kanwar at 2004-05-19 05:08:17 GMT)
I don't mean to start a kind of flame-war here but what is Ark lacking? Its a far more slicker and user-friendly distro than MEPIS -- which is good too, IMHO, but Arklinux is definitely superior in its support for numerous applications. Heck, its almost a free alternative to the SuSE, if you ask me!
42 • Why have a top 10 at all? (by Dan on 2004-05-19 05:35:48 GMT)
It seems very arbitrary to pick 10 distros and call them the 'top'. It also gives them an artificially inflated click-popularity by driving traffic to the respective 'top' distros. It would be very interesting to see what the top click counts would be without the extra boost. How much would the top rankings go down, 20%, 40%, more?
43 • Ark Linux (by Atezun on 2004-05-19 06:15:42 GMT)
As an ark user in the past. The main thing i say is that ark is lacking a feasible installer for most people at the moment. It's install options are just plain scary and if you're like me and like windows on a seperate drive from all other OSes like Linux, UNIX, BeOS etc. Ark's installer simply does not work. When Ark releases their new installer then I'm all for including them in the top 10 but not right now. I also fell that Xandros and Linspire should not be on this list. For the simple fact that they are not freely downloadable and most new linux users in my opinion are not about to pay to jump ship from windows. The space on the list they take up should be given to more deserving distros such as PCLinuxOS and MEPIS
44 • Drop Lycoris (by Paul Messina at 2004-05-19 06:28:40 GMT)
As much as I wanted Lycoris to succeed, I have to agree that it's too outdated to remain in the top ten. I'd like to vote for FreeBSD to take it's place. It would be good to have a BSD in the top ten. As for packages, I'd like to give another vote for firefox, and I think thunderbird should be included along with it.
45 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-05-19 06:34:12 GMT)
You guys are SOOO unbelieveable - you've just lost a reader and I"m sure I'm not the only one. Bah!!
46 • best 5 (by Peter at 2004-05-19 07:01:10 GMT)
quick top 5s are a very interesting ideea. A lot of people comming here are looking for a linux distribution to try and since specific people have specific needs it pays to cater to as many of them. Maybe some come here without a specific aim, they just want linux, maybe some are on a low-band connection and just want a small thingy like DSL, maybe some don't wanna mess their "precious'" and are looking for a live one. Categories for all needs should be available. Flame is inevitable but nevertheless such a thing is needed.
best 5: "for newbie", server, desktop, small, kitchen sink, live, enterprise.
Also these top 5s could be made kernel agnostic (let BSDs in where appropriate)
47 • No subject (by Sef on 2004-05-19 07:02:32 GMT)
Being a newbie I wanted an easy to install distro with a good community.Lycoris Desktop L/X satisfied both of those wants. I appreciated that it limited my choices. I would have been overwhelmed to choose between KDE, Gnome, or others, and all of the other choices that often a total noob needs to decide, but is unsure what exactly the differences between the various items of the same packages.
As for the critisms, here is my reply:
1) KDE 3.2.2 for Lycoris is slated to be released by the end of this June. (Development Newsletter #4 at Lycoris.org.) So that will no longer be an issue.
2) As for my understanding, except for Debian, all distros are commercial to some degree. Some are very little commercialized; some are very much commercialized.
3) Free downloads are available. Desktop L/X does not stop working after 45 days. It keeps on ticking (as a timex watch.)
4) A couple of people who left have come back and the community has welcomed them back. All companies go through growing pains and that is all that was happening.
5) Focus lost? NO. Desktop L/X is meant to be stable and not cutting edge; and so it won't have the latest updates on it for a bit. I prefer it that way.
Desktop L/X deserves to stay on the top 10 list because it serves a purpose for some of us. And that is what Linux is about: choice.
48 • top choices (by Sef on 2004-05-19 07:06:52 GMT)
Why can't the top choices be broken down: newbie install, inbetween install, geek install. Could be top 5, 7, or 10 of each. BSDs could be included in these rankings.
49 • Top 10 plus honorable mentions (by Pete on 2004-05-19 07:12:32 GMT)
Back again. My orignal post for the Top 10 and then honerable mentions (perhaps on the same page). The whole idea was to expose the new distros to the community. IMHO there are several new distro's and the *BSD that people may find interesting, useful or just more to their tastes.
If most people just stuck with the Top 10 then they might not ever give a chance to the smaller distros. And who knows, with the right exposer, these rising starts just might be the next Debian, Slackware or *BSD.
50 • RE: Why have a top 10 at all? (by ladislav at 2004-05-19 08:14:17 GMT)
It would be very interesting to see what the top click counts would be without the extra boost. How much would the top rankings go down, 20%, 40%, more?
I doubt that. Several distributions that are not on the "top 10" list are in fact higher in ranking than some of those on the list - MEPIS, PCLinuxOS, Damn Small Linux, even FreeBSD (if measured over the last month) are higher in the page hit ranking than Xandros, Linspire or Desktop/LX. Desktop/LX actually dropped to number 27 in terms of page hits over the last month, despite the fact that it has been on the "top 10" list since the very beginning.
There certainly might be some "extra boost" as you call it, but I'd say it's probably around 5 - 10%, rather than 20 - 40%.
51 • one small request (by Peter on 2004-05-19 08:32:20 GMT)
to Ladislav
Please oh please, can you make the DistroWatch Weekly link from the RSS feed point to this page instead of the main page.
52 • maybe mutiple top tens? (by Garret at 2004-05-19 11:58:51 GMT)
I like Sef's comment here "Why can't the top choices be broken down: newbie install, inbetween install, geek install. Could be top 5, 7, or 10 of each. BSDs could be included in these rankings."
A pretty interesting idea, and I think one that makes alot of sense. The community is SOOO deverse, as are levels of expertise. Very often a top ten for somebody who's been using Linux for years would be nowhere close to what is would be for those new to it.
Garret
53 • Top 10s (by Mike on 2004-05-19 12:17:59 GMT)
You mention that being on the top 10 isn't a great boost to a distro's HPD. I've only ever looked at the top 10 twice - the first time I came here and just now! Maybe it should be a little more prominent. I also noted that it is not just a list but a series of short articles introducing each distro. As such, it would seem reasonable to merge Debian and Knoppix in this list (unless you want to draw special attention to the live-cd concept, which you probably do). If you need help writing articles for top 5 lists, I'm sure it would be forthcoming. May I suggest LFS for the top 10? I know no-one uses it but everyone has a partition for it! It's an important, albeit unpopular distro. And FreeBSD should definately be up there.
54 • Top 10 (by Kobold on 2004-05-19 12:42:33 GMT)
You should probably consider dropping both Xandros and Lycoris. Lindows appears to have slightly more recognition, so you might leave it in the list unless it sinks much more.
I also support the idea of including FreeBSD in top 10 list. It does deserve recognition for going on for that long.
55 • Lycoris Desktop/LX (by spaaz9 at 2004-05-19 13:52:49 GMT)
Lycoris Desktop/LX is FAR from being a dead project. I happen to know that it is being actively worked on and updated as I write this. I cut my teeth on Desktop/LX, and even after using various other distros, I always went back there.
Lycoris Desktop/LX is one of the most stable, easy to learn, and diligently maintained Linux based distrobutions out there.
Just my opinion, but I think it should stay
56 • Top 10s (by Alan Baghumian at 2004-05-19 15:11:58 GMT)
Do not forget Libranet. That's really nice debian based distro. I recommend it to all newbies who want to benefit from debian + Ease of use.
57 • Keep Lycoris Desktop/LX (by pelly at 2004-05-19 15:29:26 GMT)
It would be a mistake to remove Desktop/LX from the Top 10.
The OS is still very viable.
The point about the company becoming 'increasingly commercial' is not a valis reason to remove this platform from the Top 10.
58 • Top 10 (by Michael_Valentine on 2004-05-19 15:29:35 GMT)
Lycoris Desktop/LX should stay and deservingly so. Yes they are not the same distro they used to be, but they are still evolving with a great community. They are a mayor player in the Desktop area when it comes to useability, even if they are still using KDE 2.x.
59 • top choices - good idea (by Henrique Maia at 2004-05-19 15:37:52 GMT)
I like sef's idea: "Why can't the top choices be broken down: newbie install, inbetween install, geek install. Could be top 5, 7, or 10 of each. BSDs could be included in these rankings."
When I switched over to Linux a couple of years ago, the install issue was my major concern. For a newbie, I suppose, these kind of lists would be a great help.
As for the distro poll (?) to substitute Lycoris, I would go for MEPIS.
Many thanks,
Henrique.
60 • My View on Lycoris & the Top 10, make it Top 20! (by tim1980 at 2004-05-19 15:59:17 GMT)
I also disagree with Distrowatch removing Lycoris Desktop/lx from the top 10.
By the way, Distrowatch is still one of my Top 5 favorites web sites, & I really like the work he does over there.
What about increasing the Top 10 to Top 20, that way you can add 10 more really good OS's.
61 • Top Ten (Free vs. Non-Free) (by Moe Bergeron at 2004-05-19 16:13:02 GMT)
Why not divide the list into two categories or have two lists?
1. Free distros,
2. Commercial distros
I have shelled out for Lindows and Mandrake but now that I have grown up to Debian (through my love for Knoppix) I more than ever appreciative of the non-gratis hackers out there.
mb
62 • Top 10 (by Just a bystander on 2004-05-19 16:44:28 GMT)
You have no reason to advertise Lycoris just because it's a pay-distro. In general, business does good for Linux, but if a distro a not popular it has no place in the distrowatch.com top 10 list.
Adding FreeBSD into this list makes sense, because it informs newbies on the fact that there are *BSD's as OSS choices beside all the Linux distros.
MEPIS is a derivative of Knoppix/Debian. You have these both listed in your Top 10 page. PCLinuxOS is a derivative of MandrakeLinux, that is also listed in your Top 10. The purpose of this website is, as far as I've understood, to provide people with information on the available options. IMHO, FreeBSD has a justifiable position in your Top 10 list.
63 • Revising the top 10 distributions (by gabbman at 2004-05-19 17:32:36 GMT)
>>Also, the distribution is increasingly commercial in nature,<<
Then where does that leave Xandros, or Linspire, or SuSE for that matter, not everyone can ftp the install.
Why not just let the HPD total selected at 6mos, determine the top 10?
64 • Top Ten... (by Mick at 2004-05-19 18:06:43 GMT)
Okay, I have to confess, I'm a distro-junkie -- hangin' out at Distrowatch, seein' what's new, downloading and installing just about anything... I have found some great distro's...
1. Fedora FC2 (Okay, it's a snap judgement...)
2. Knoppix hd-install
3. PCLinux
4. SuSE
5. Debian
6. Free BSD
7. QNX 6.2.1 (comic relief)
and the 'portables',
8. SLAX
9. Mini-cd
10. Knoppix Live-CD
We just won't get into the coasters; I'm sure we all use a few...
65 • Cleaning up the top 10 (by Nick S. on 2004-05-19 22:44:53 GMT)
I don't think Live CD's should be in the main top 10. They should have their own seperate ranking and top 10. It just isn't an apples to apples comparison. Even the live CD's with a HD install option should be maintained on that list (maybe Mepis could ride on both since it is so in-between being used one way or the other). The usefulness of the info on the list is improved if you know you're looking only at stuff you can install and run as your main OS vice a list with random live-cd only distros in there.
And I'd vote for Arch linux if it were getting more hits. That one really surprises me with its quality. Don't let their version number fool you - its one great project! I guess til it gets a little more popular, I'd give it to Mepis.
66 • No subject (by TommyR at 2004-05-19 23:18:03 GMT)
I'll vote for Mepis and the other choices as well but let's not forget about Puppy linux! This is ONE FAST LiveCD that works great. Live CDs works great and are FUN. I've tried about a dozen in the past 2 months and my faves are Mepis, Puppy, Kanotix just to name a few. Naturally Knoppix works great as well.
Oh, just bought and installed Suse9.1, man does it rock!
TommyR
N.Y.
67 • No subject (by RICKY at 2004-05-19 23:45:07 GMT)
hey but i like Lycoris
if it wasn't for Lycoris i may never have heard of bzflag or possible worlds. both i've come to love. if this is about being uptodate well better drop debian too another favourite of mine and my first experience with linux
68 • Help us find what is suitable (by ROC on 2004-05-20 01:12:39 GMT)
I think Sef and Garret were onto something like what I have in mind. What would really be helpful would be some way to sort out distros by their hardware requirements, orientations in terms of desktop-vs-server; newbie-vs-guru; underlying distros (if any) such as Debian, RPMS, Slackware; kernel level; live-vs-install-vs-both; pay-vs-free; window managers; etc.
Anything that would help us distinguish between what the distros have/don't have that matters to most folks looking for the "right" one(s) by their own criteria is what is needed.
I have been looking for something to run on older machines, laptop/desktop/486/sub-200 Mhz Pentium/sub-64MB RAM/sub 1GB HDD. I have a number of these "museum pieces" that I would like to make useful to sell cheap or give to family, or poor kids that my wife teaches (or other poor teachers/aides ;-), and it is difficult sometimes to find out what would be suitable and what would not.
For instances, I liked Vector 3.2 on an old Compaq Armada 7300, but I could not get the X windows set up right on a Thinkpad 365XD, but Feather looks great on it, but I have not figured out how to set up the DHCP client (dhclient that I'm familiar with seems to be missing). Vector 4.0 SoHo has a buggy driver for the Thinkpad X20 ATI Rage Mobility video chipset, and Mandrake 9.1 worked great on the X20, but 9.2 seemed to lose a lot of 9.1's useful desktop features like keeping the last few used apps at the top of the start menu, and 9.2 did not install lame with the cd recorders that need it... and so on, and so forth.
I don't care what's "popular" - I need some way to find out what matches up with what I have to work with, and not spend a lot of time on trial and error.
FWIW,
ROC
69 • No subject (by anselm on 2004-05-20 02:15:59 GMT)
I would have to say to keep it in the top 10 list its a great os for new people.Just because it isn't cutting edge and they charge for there product is no reason to remove Lycoris d/lx from the top 10. Also the kde2 that lycoris d/lx uses is nothing like stock kde2. They have made a lot of changes to it. My 2 cents.
70 • Keep Desktop/LX in the top ten. (by pmaloney on 2004-05-20 02:32:48 GMT)
All I have to say is that their next update will be out soon, then you'll have lots of people wondering why you ever took it out.
Perhaps Lycoris should post a preliminary package list for the upcoming release......
The next release should be available in June or July as they've publicly stated, and it will be fully up to date. It will generate a lot of excitement...and I think it would be good if you kept it there for now. Lycoris is also a mature, full time software company, unlike some of the other rookies you've mentioned.
Just my opinion, but it's your site.
71 • Drop Desktop LX? (by B Gordon at 2004-05-20 02:49:17 GMT)
I can understand the idea of giving top ten status based on page hits but in terms of the quality and general fun factor of the distro Desktop LX still belongs.I've tried several state of the art distros on both my computers and none work as consistantly nor with the same level of simplicity.The KDE version is due to be addressed but to any newbee to Linux it's nothing but backround noise.I run mine with the latest version of Mozilla and Firefox along with Opera--Bzflag 10.5 runs just fine and the VIA 82XX [AC 97] sound driver works beautifully without hours of tweaking .
72 • Categories instead of Tops (by Leonardo at 2004-05-20 03:20:03 GMT)
I read most of the comments, and agree with a good part of them, i do think that Linspire, Xandros and Lycoiris should be dropped and replaced by PCLinuxOS and Mepis and maybe some other...
But on the other hand i've been thinking in something, every time i enter distrowatch i want to see whats new, but also when i have to do some specific search, im not able to do it. This is beacouse of the lack of categories or some kind of special keywords to be used in a search, i mean, as the guy right over me, if i need a distro for really old hardware, i cant go with Mandrake, but i dont necesarily know the names of the distros able to work good on old hardware.
The same for LiveCDs, if i need some LiveCD distro, i would like to know which of the list are this kind, to be able compare between them (i remember this was available until one day the page desapeared)
What im saying is that the Top 5 idea is more or less what i think several ppl would like, and this is to know to what kind of category a distro fells.
Just a field in the distro specs, where we have a category and the search function in distrowatch is able to search by this method would be really helpfull...
Some categories could be the named above... servers, live-cds, noobies, powerusers, entretainment, oldies, rescue ... etc...
Even some distros could fit more than one.
Anyway, its just a thought i been having for a long time...
73 • searching (by blahger at 2004-05-20 03:28:20 GMT)
Love the site, one thing as a n00b, being able to search for ditros by certain traits would be handy ie find distro by kernel/packages installed or iso size.
More than likely it can already be done and I've just made a tool of meself....
Anyway.....keep up the fine work :)
74 • Keep Desktop/LX (by D3M0N on 2004-05-20 03:34:46 GMT)
Keep Desktop/LX! It'd be a mistake to remove it.
75 • SOT LINUX (by Lord-Storm on 2004-05-20 04:34:03 GMT)
A new version of LBA-Linux (formerly known as SOT Linux and Best Linux) has entered a beta testing phase. This is from the release announcement: "Following the worldwide release in April of the first version of LBA-Linux, the Linux Business Alliance has this week unveiled a preview of the next generation of its popular GNU/Linux distribution. LBA-Linux R2 Beta, a test version of the as-yet-unreleased LBA-Linux R2, reveals a slew of new features and sports an enhanced, stylish design
Well I made a mistake of downloading RC1 and it cost me $33 AU after a 50% discount on fixing my partition tables. This made a nice mess of my partiton tables. Even JAMD said that there was a problem with the partition tables. Linux would work Windows 2k NO. It might just be my mother board. So many distros have had probblems with my gigabyte board but none have had any problems with IDE.. Unlike SOT.
Before install I was running windows2k PRO NTFS
76 • RE: Distro categories (by ladislav at 2004-05-20 04:44:04 GMT)
More requests for search and distro categories , as if I haven't had enough of them :-(
My question is: besides requests, can any of you offer help with implementing these features? It's easy to spend 5 minutes to write that "I want this feature or that feature", but do you realise that it would take days of coding to implement your requests? Please don't write that you want something, offer help instead. If you can't code, then learn, or wait until I find the time to code.
I do want to listen to your requests and code in all the requested features, but I just don't have the time (or money to employ a programmer).
77 • Mistake to drop Lycoris (by EricJ2 at 2004-05-20 04:59:10 GMT)
Lycoris was my first distro. I went on to try others, but ended coming back to, and purchasing Desktop/LX.
Everything just works - like it's supposed to.
I think dropping Lycoris is a major mistake. It's solid, it's stable, it works, it's well supported, and although it's commercial, it's very reasonably priced. It lets me get work done without having to worry about being on the bleeding edge. Bleeding edge is fun to play with, but when it's time to get to work, bleeding edge is not where you want to be.
Granted not having KDE3.x is a bit of a limitation, but anyone wanting a stable, reliable OS (especially a n00b) isn't going to care. If Linux is going to grow, we need more n00bs. Besides, the next update will have KDE3.x in it. Then watch out.....
78 • Lost their focus? (by EricJ2 at 2004-05-20 05:13:36 GMT)
I have to agree with Sef. Especially on Item #5.
Who in their right mind would claim that Lycoris has lost its focus?
Their focus is to produce a stable, simple to use Linux distro for the desktop, with the emphasis on stability. In that focus, they are succeeding in a tremendous way.
If I wanted to be on the bleeding edge, I'd go with Fedora because it's certainly right there on that edge. But I have much more that I need to do with my computer than screw around with an operating system. I need some stability so I can get some work done. Lycoris gives me exactly that - while at the same time letting me get away from Microsoft's upgrade treadmill and ever more intrusive DRM/Spyware/Activation. (If you thought XP was bad - just wait until Longhorn - YIKES!)
Some of the purists out there think that Linux must be free (as in beer). They're certainly entitled to their opinion. But you can't make payroll (or buy groceries) when everything is free as in beer. And no one is going to effectively compete against a behemoth like Microsoft over the long term, without some kind of corporate structure behind them. Lycoris gives the necessary freedom, while keeping the necessary cost reasonable. Thanks to Joe and the gang at Lycoris for maintaining that balance for the rest of us. I think Lycoris does a far better job of keeping the cost down than any of the other commercial distros, like Linspire, Xandros, Suse, Mandrake, etc.
Lycoris just works!
79 • No subject (by D3M0N on 2004-05-20 05:41:41 GMT)
Yes, I'll have to agree.
Ladislav - I feel that many of your arguements were incorrect. Lycoris has not lost its focus with Desktop/LX at all. They have and ALWAYS will be focused towards the Desktop Linux User. Also, the thing about them becoming more commercial. So what?! Why does that matter? Yes, Redmond Linux was not very commercial, but Lycoris as a company has evolved. What is wrong about that? Desktop/LX Update 3 was not released in 2001, it was released September 2003. Who cares if it has KDE 2.2.2? Not only is it rock solid - it's easy to use and Familiar. Yes, they do offer a 45 day trial but if you read around on the Lycoris forums you'll see that it was to help prohibit people from distributing/reselling it illegally. Yes, it was sprung on us unexpectedly, but people make mistakes. Yes, Lycoris is made up of *people*. The next version of Desktop/LX which I'm guessing will be released sometime in July, will have an extremely update to date desktop, KDE 3.2.x. Another reason not to remove is because once it's released you'll probably be adding them again. People will be interested and they are now.
Why does LInux have to be free as in beer? Lycoris is a company trying to make money. It's what the developers do for a living - not just to make money but because they LOVE what they're doing.
Also the thing about no public betas - I could be wrong but I don't remember anyone saying that there won't be any. I am an "NDAer" but right now it's just *alpha*. We haven't even seen a beta yet so just chill on that part.
I'd like to shove this in - why Desktop/LX? Why not Linspire/Lindows or Xandros? I'm not saying that because I don't like the OSes, but why Desktop/LX? I want to know. Lindows/Linspire is getting a lot of press in what I feel is in a negative way - it's all about lawsuits. I personally wouldn't want to use an OS that's company is always getting sued.
*phew* - I think I'm done. :)
80 • RE: Lost their focus? (by ladislav at 2004-05-20 05:44:03 GMT)
Who in their right mind would claim that Lycoris has lost its focus?
Lycoris, with its limited resources and manpower, tries to do to many things at the same time. GamePack, ProductivityPack, Solitaire Ace, Tablet Edition... Instead of focusing on one product, they spread their wings into what I'd call questionable products. Solitaire Ace? Has any of you bought Solitaire Ace from Lycoris? And does anybody here own a Tablet PC with Lycoris on it? Or do you know of anybody who does?
I am sorry, but this is what I call "lost focus" - several products of questionable value, while Desktop/LX is aging badly. (And please don't tell me that Update4 will be out in June or July - I believe it when I see it. There are many highly up-do-date distributions that are out now, no need to wait for another 2 months.)
Hey, at least we have a nice discussion here. Of course, you are welcome to disagree, but I still feel that Lycoris has lost focus.
81 • No subject (by D3M0N on 2004-05-20 05:48:38 GMT)
Yes, I'll have to agree.
Ladislav - I feel that many of your arguements were incorrect. Lycoris has not lost its focus with Desktop/LX at all. They have and ALWAYS will be focused towards the Desktop Linux User. Also, the thing about them becoming more commercial. So what?! Why does that matter? Yes, Redmond Linux was not very commercial, but Lycoris as a company has evolved. What is wrong about that? Desktop/LX Update 3 was not released in 2001, it was released September 2003. Who cares if it has KDE 2.2.2? Not only is it rock solid - it's easy to use and Familiar. Yes, they do offer a 45 day trial but if you read around on the Lycoris forums you'll see that it was to help prohibit people from distributing/reselling it illegally. Yes, it was sprung on us unexpectedly, but people make mistakes. Yes, Lycoris is made up of *people*. The next version of Desktop/LX which I'm guessing will be released sometime in July, will have an extremely update to date desktop, KDE 3.2.x. Another reason not to remove is because once it's released you'll probably be adding them again. People will be interested and they are now.
Why does LInux have to be free as in beer? Lycoris is a company trying to make money. It's what the developers do for a living - not just to make money but because they LOVE what they're doing.
Also the thing about no public betas - I could be wrong but I don't remember anyone saying that there won't be any. I am an "NDAer" but right now it's just *alpha*. We haven't even seen a beta yet so just chill on that part.
I'd like to shove this in - why Desktop/LX? Why not Linspire/Lindows or Xandros? I'm not saying that because I don't like the OSes, but why Desktop/LX? I want to know. Lindows/Linspire is getting a lot of press in what I feel is in a negative way - it's all about lawsuits. I personally wouldn't want to use an OS that's company is always getting sued.
*phew* - I think I'm done. :)
82 • No subject (by D3M0N on 2004-05-20 05:49:35 GMT)
Sorry ladislav - that wasn't aimed "directly" at you. :)
83 • "lost focus" (by zegenie on 2004-05-20 05:56:57 GMT)
GamePack, ProductivityPack, Solitaire Ace, Tablet Edition... Instead of focusing on one product, they spread their wings into what I'd call questionable products.
When was GamePak released? When was it updated? Do you know what development is being done on it now? Are you trying to tell that GamePak is a bad product?
ProductivityPak has been updated once, and is still a darn good deal. Nothing outdated there - *nothing*, and the quality of the software is excellent!
I know *several* people that own Solitaire Ace. It's a quality product and people buy it because it is.
I've also seen several people in the lycoris.org forums with tablet PCs, yes.
I don't get your "it's getting old" argument. Yes, Update 3, released september 2003 had KDE2.2.2 - a rather old desktop environment. Update 4 - which joe has said will be out during summer - will have KDE 3.2.x, and several other updated packages. Not only that, but it will also have the Lycoris look and feel, and other Lycoris-specific enhancements.
You know this! A quick glance at the development newsletters (four of them have been posted already) will tell you that not only is the release happening, it is being done at a quite rapid pace. KDE 3.2 was released to the NDA group a month ago, and I tell you it is evolving nicely. I firmly believe that not only will it be out in July, it may also be out before that!
So, to sum up your poorly argumented attempt at portraying Desktop/LX as "outdated software", and Lycoris as a company producing "questionable products" - your arguments holds *no grounds* whatsoever.
My post may sound offensive, but attacking something that I have firm believe in, with poor arguments tends to do that to me.
-Daniel André
84 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-05-20 06:01:36 GMT)
Desktop/LX Update 3 was not released in 2001.
I never said that. I said that KDE 2.2.2 was released in 2001.
I'd like to shove this in - why Desktop/LX?
Mainly because it has dropped so low in terms of page hit ranking. Like it or not, the page hit ranking is a barometer of interest. If you look through the ranking history, these are the positions that Desktop/LX occupied for the specified period:
2002: 8
2003: 9
Last 12 months: 14
Last 6 months: 16
Last 3 months: 19
Last 1 month: 28
Do you still believe that it belongs to the top 10? I don't think so. And before you guys mobilised the Lycoris forums to come and post here, there was not a single voice against dropping Lycoris from the top 10, but plenty of voices supporting the move.
Hey, it's not the end of the world. If your favourite football team gets relegated from the top league, it doesn't mean that it can't come back. It merely shows that it didn't perform well during the season. So instead of asking all Lycoris users to come and post here, why don't you ask them to write reviews? Ask them to tell the world why Desktop/LX is the best distro! Ask them to tell us why they love it! That would be a lot more effective than posting opninions of protests here.
85 • Top 10? (by zegenie on 2004-05-20 06:05:49 GMT)
So, basically what you're saying is that before Desktop/LX supporters came along, all the Desktop/LX non-supporters were having a blast? Yeah, I can see that.
Weren't you asking for opinions? Well, now you've got them. Several people are *against* dropping Desktop/LX from the list. Wasn't that what you were asking for?
86 • to Kanwar (by jim thompson at 2004-05-20 06:08:20 GMT)
in answer to your question of what Ark is lacking . its lacking choise of dual booting with another linux distro , its all or else if you allready have a linux partition on the drive . theres no kernel choice to speak of , SMP doesnt fit my hardware. it lacks the ability to detect a common nic or install support for same . whitch means no choice of internet access . kind of odd for linux dont you think ?
allso you stated that Ark " is slicker " and " more user friendly than Mepis " . thats your opinion , everybodys entitled to their opinion !
but i dont share that opinion or see the extra polish or friendliness .and as for its"superior in its support for numerous applications ". i would point you to the debian pool and ask this question . what does Ark or and Suse combined have that Debian doesnt ? another debatable question eh ? it seems that were from diffrent camps with diffrent views of whats good or necessary . linux is universally referred to as the OS that offers choices . ergo my statement that Ark is lacking . one of the fundimentals of linux i might add .
and to set the record straight that statement wasnt meant to mallign , but was simply a users observation and opinion . whitch im entitled to.
regards to all jim
87 • RE: lost focus (by ladislav at 2004-05-20 06:18:29 GMT)
So, to sum up your poorly argumented attempt at portraying Desktop/LX as "outdated software", and Lycoris as a company producing "questionable products" - your arguments holds *no grounds* whatsoever.
You might be right. I certainly don't claim that my opinions are always correct. I suppose it's possible that the Tablet PC is the next big thing and soon everybody will walk around carrying a nice Tablet PC powered by Lycoris OS. It's possible... Anything is possible...
Zeegenie, you are a member of the Lycoris Non-Disclosure Agreement team, so you know a lot more than I do about what's happening within the company. As such, your opinions are probably more correct than mine. However, because of the same reason, your opinions are also a lot more biased than mine.
OK, that's it. I am not going to spend any more time discussing the subject. I need to go and start coding that search feature, before I get any more search feature requests. If you want Lycoris back in top 10, ask Joe to work faster or start writing Desktop/LX reviews to keep it in the news. Have fun!
88 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-05-20 06:50:52 GMT)
Are you saying that all the rankings are purely based upon the under of page hits to distrowatch? If that is the case, one can argue that none of the top should be where they are. Statistics can be made to proof or disprove anything... Guess depends what your angle is..
89 • re RE: lost focus (by Anonymous on 2004-05-20 07:51:52 GMT)
I think we all seen what happens when you rush threw somthing instead of take your time like lycoris did
look at mandrake i keep hearing from all sorts of ppl how it buggy
90 • Reviews for Lycoris Desktop/LX should be sent to DesktopOS.com to be published (by tim1980 at 2004-05-20 08:23:33 GMT)
I agree that more people should write reviews of Lycoris Desktop/LX, If you read this and do write a review please send it to me to publish for you. i am happy to include screenshots, & help you edit it if needed...
All reviews sent & published go into DesktopOS.com reviews competition, where you can win a boxed copy of Lycoris Desktop/lx Update 4!
http://www.desktopos.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=7
Thanks,
Tim
91 • Top 10 (by Scott Ferguson at 2004-05-20 09:14:51 GMT)
Remove Lycoris (and Xandros, and RedHat) from the Top Ten??
No. This is "Distrowatch" yes? They (sic) are distros yes?
1. Keep them in the list - if only to compare commercial distros with community distros. Peer review is an important part of Open Source and the distros in question are at least partially Open Source, and, more importantly, are percieved by the public as 'Linux'. By keeping them in the Top Ten we keep them under review.
2. They are 'good' distros - they work out of the box. A 'newbie' can install them on their own, and when install they will 'just work'. Hardly hurts the reputation of Linux and Open Source does it?
To those who think RedHat sucks - I agree, it's far too fat to run on my old hardware. But I'd be remiss if I didn't recognise the inroads RedHat has made into the corporate world. If my employer considers Debian for a server it's probably because he's heard of RedHat being used successfuly.
92 • Top 10 (by vauge at 2004-05-20 11:07:44 GMT)
Categorize more.
Top 5 Load and Go
Top 5 "Live CD's"
Top 5 Source based
This could shed light on some deserving distro's that would never hit the top 10 as it stands today.
93 • Revising the top 10 distributions (by gabbman at 2004-05-20 11:36:55 GMT)
One of the things everyone has lost site of, and Ladislav actually indirectly pointed this out in his reply on the Lycoris forum, is as I see it:
Lycoris, may not be up-to-date, as per kde2.2.2, BUT they are not in a war with any other desktop o/s for Uptodateness, they are about DesktopL/X, the operating system.. The latest stable release runs a whole lot different then the first stable, even though they both use kde2.2, ... so lost focus, I THINK NOT.
I give them a lot of credit for Sticking to that game plan of making the Operating Sytem just work, and work well it does.
Now I agree with Ladislav that the slide on the HPD count reflects that they are not in the top 10 and I say then let the HPD count RULE the top 10 List.
There have been many other good ideas posted here too about catagories, IE: Live CD's really should not be compared to the Everyday Desktop Operating System. They both may encompass the linux o/s but they have different functions.
Lot's of good points have been brought out, and now Ladislav has his work cut out for him. Making the choice of the changes. I'm glad it's him not me. :) Keep up the good work.
94 • chop the hype (by Ted on 2004-05-20 15:23:16 GMT)
I think with a couple more pro-Lycoris posts we will have their entire use base represented here!
With the risk of rallying yet another small but loud user base, why is Lin/dows/spire in the top 10? All it is is a dumbed down and insecure Debian rip-off with a big marketing budget.
The company itself has made headway in getting Linux some attention, but that does not reflect the quality of the OS.
95 • Drop Linspire (by Chuck Lowrey on 2004-05-20 16:15:26 GMT)
I am all in favor of keeping Desktop/LX up there. Lycoris does a great job with this OS. Ladislav - your claims that it has lost its focus are totally unfounded. Just because YOU don't know anyone that uses it doesn't mean that OTHER people don't. It's an entry point. Look how many people graduate to other operating systems because they started out there. Look at it JUST IN THE COMMENTS above!
I LIKE the fact that they focus on other things besides just including a bunch of stuff just to include it. Ever USE ProductivityPak? It's pretty amazing. They put in lots of extra stuff like a hundred fonts or something, and no command line install. Try using a modem if you're not root over on Linspire. Try doing much of anything if you're not root on Linspire. It's insane - you have to use CNR and you HAVE to run as root to do so.
Lycoris has never lost their focus. Their CEO said once that they won't include packages just because they have a higher number, that often leads to being buggy. He is always talking about being stable.
Their community is second to none, too. I visit there and post on occasion. Yes, it's very pretty. Isn't that how you attract users? It's better looking than any other Linux out there, and I keep hearing rumors that there are some major redesigns in the look coming out next month.
Ladislav, I think you jumped the gun on this one. All the squeaky wheels screamed instantly, and over time more people are supporting Desktop/LX. Count me in there too.
96 • RedHat Hate (by wouter at 2004-05-20 17:19:23 GMT)
To many opensource people, it's not only the advance Linux has made that is important, but also how, with which values, and what of the ideology had to be left behind in the process.
The opensource philosophy is at least (or more) important than the real software, to most. And that's why companies that do contribute but (appear to) fail to live up to the 'spirit' of opensource, get flamed.
I don't hate RedHat, (I never used it either though - I just liked other distributions more), but I think it's good people are aware of overly commercial or anti-opensource initiatives, or even straight abuse of the opensource community.
Be aware, but give RedHat some credit. They really did a lot for Linux and hopefully will still, in the future.
97 • I never trusted your counter after Yoper was #1 for so long (by Distrowatch reader on 2004-05-20 17:40:55 GMT)
When yoper was #1 I tried it. I never trusted your counter again! Several distros have dropped a lot.
I come here to check on (Hopefully) new efforts in linux distributions
98 • More on Top Ten (by Teobromina on 2004-05-20 17:47:01 GMT)
Dear All:
We have not to confuss the ABILITY TO FIND what we want (kind of distros) and the POPULARITY (top ten).
After reading 'rivers' of oppinions here, I have a proposal (refinning a concept that I gave in this same forum some days ago):
------------------------------------------------
In order TOP HELP ANYBODY TO FIND a kind of distro, I suggest to associate any distro to some keywords according to the following proposal in which I have associated terms that are
***'classificatives':
-{live | (to be) installed},
-{commercial | free},
-{(complete) OS (and applications) | mini-OS (i.e. less than 210 Mb)}
-{desktop (oriented) | console},
-{easy (newbee user) | power (user)},
-{en(glish) | language-specific}
(we may add more clasifications),...
and other terms that are
***'explainatives' of the distro orientation:
{security, recovery, education, multimedia, remastering, publishing, server}
(we may add more flawors),...
Examples:
* DSL 0.7 would respond to a search on:
"live, free, mini-OS, desktop, easy, en"
* Mandrake 10 CE would be:
"installed, free, OS, desktop, easy, en"
* System Rescue CD would be:
"live, free, OS, console, power, en, recovery",
etc.
The only thing needed to maintain that is to have a table or database of the distros and a search form in the page with some unfoldable predefined tags to make more easy the search.
------------------------------------------------
About the POPULARITY:
Make it easy: This web is for ourselves that read the web, not for any other people that ignore us.
Therefore the popularity of a distro for us is not a heavently thing, but just our own interest. The top ten for us is the updated table of the hits on a link related to the distro itself. You do not need to maintain any top ten, you need just the ranking; the top ten will be different each week. The most popular distro nowadays is Mandrake, but they do not issue new distros every week, their popularity shows enough stability based on the public interest. When public abandones a distro it becomes not popular at all, no matter if you consider it is top ten. So, let ourselves to decide every week what is popular for us. If you constrain a list to a specific number you rest it degrees of liberty, that make the result less credible.
-----------------------------------------------
For avoiding any doubt: I say this appreciating very much the work done and my only aim is to help.
*/Teobromina/*
99 • No subject (by Ted on 2004-05-20 18:11:27 GMT)
I am sure it would be a lot of work to setup, but I think Teobromina's suggestion would be a fantastic resource.
100 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-05-20 23:03:48 GMT)
ladislav:
You are absolutely right about all the suggestions/requests with no help from us (yeah, raising my hand: guilty as charged). I was venting last night, and not stopping to give you credit for all that Distrowatch already offers. It's fabulous, and I think just a bit of tweaking what's already here may be a big help to us interested in searching for what is suitable for our needs/wants.
The matrices already available showing features and packages are a huge help, and I think that prompted my rant - if there was just some way to have them all side-by-side in some way to compare distros, not just versions within distros as is done now, that would fulfill a lot of what I'm looking for. That, and add a few more rows to deal with processor (although the "Processor Architecture" feature seems like it may cover that - is that minimum or absolute spec?) , memory and disk requirements, and hardware compatibility. Then some way to search across that combined matrix for matches with various criteria... how can we help you take that next step? I have some modest coding skills in Korn shell, Perl, JavaScript, HTML (REXX or COBOL anyone? ;-), but not sure how that could be used to help you.
How about some kind of feedback mechanism by which we could let others know what we have found to work in our particular experiences (this or that component works/fails to work with this distro, definite bugs, good/bad features, etc.)? I suppose, though, that it would be necessary to keep out loose generalities like "it sucks", or "Wow!" - require specifics somehow (checklists/counters?).
FWIW
ROC
101 • No subject (by Alllll on 2004-05-21 00:54:42 GMT)
I am new to Linux and trying a few distribution recently. some don't detected my soundcard and some do. even they do, they don't have players for VCD or MPEG files. On browser, I downloaded plugins and extracted them but I don't know how to install. They just don't like Windows which I open the file while downloading or just click on a .exe file and keep clicking next till finished. Finaly there are not enough manufacture support linux with driver that I cann't use USB for lan between my computer and "2wire" DSL gateway.
102 • No subject (by Alllll on 2004-05-21 01:00:06 GMT)
Did I metion the text look fuzzy one these linux.
103 • Top distros list (by Penguin on 2004-05-21 12:40:49 GMT)
How about adding all the 3 distros that you mentioned: PC Linux OS, MEPIS & FreeBSD, and making it Top 12? Or you could consider always including those distros that have been in the top 10 of the page hit ranking for 12 months or more (so preferably no new comers).
104 • No subject (by EricJ2 at 2004-05-21 15:49:38 GMT)
D3MON says Lycoris has no public betas. OK -and why is this a bad thing? Isn't that what Microsoft tries to have us all be - public beta testers - after you've paid through the nose for the priviledge? I mean if that's what you want to do, that's fine I guess. But I have enough work to do debugging my own code, I certainly shouldn't HAVE to spend my time debugging someone else's code.
105 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-05-21 22:53:31 GMT)
I have wondered for quite a while about the point Alllll makes. Why isn't there a click and install for pograms on the differing versions of linux? Most newbies have never heard of "Uvh rpm" or "apt-get," and not all distros have kynaptic like Ark (which still only gives you apps they compile to RPM).
This website is where I learned about the differences in Red Hat and Debian based distros. I still haven't figgured out the whole .tar.gz thing, which is why I only play around with SLAX instead of installing Slackware.
106 • One "Top Ten" list is enough (by BillH on 2004-05-22 09:43:30 GMT)
I think I understand the position of those who have suggested a set of "Top X" lists. It may be true that there are many deserving distros in each of the suggested catogories. Nevertheless, I think that many "Top 10" or "Top 5" lists would serve little purpose.
I think a "Top 10" list is most useful to people who are new to Linux and who would like to be pointed at the distros that are really the very best. Now I think that it would not be right to assume that all newcomers are looking for the same kind of distro. Some will want a live distro, some will want a desktop install, some may be looking for a lightweight distro and so on. If we have a "Top 10 Desktops" list, can we really say that all ten are really excellent, must-try distros? And even if we can say that, do we want to suggest to the newbies that they should try all ten? Probably not.
In my opinion, a single "Top Ten" list should represent two things. First, all the distros should be widely recognized as excellent. This means not only doing what they do really well, but also having excellent support or a very active and supportive user community. Second, the "Top Ten" list should also reflect the wide diversity of the Linux world. After all, one of the things that sets Linux apart from other systems is the ability to be customized.
In this way, any random newcomer can go to the list and reading it find a distro that does what this person needs and that will likely provide a positive experience.
This probably means that any long-time DistroWatch reader will be able to object to at least some of the distros on the list. But the list wouldn't claim to be a list of distros that are all things to all people. I'm sure that any distro A or B or C will get comments like "I tried that one a year ago and it didn't recognize my wireless card", but that isn't the point. These things always happen, even paying for an OS doesn't guarantee that it won't.
Another good point about having just one list is that it would keep down the work of keeping up the list. Ladislav has plenty to do already. (Thanks for all your hard work, Ladislav!) I'm ready to trust his judgement and I promise I won't nit-pick his decisions.
107 • Mepis, PCLOS ??????? (by s3d on 2004-05-23 05:51:57 GMT)
Personally, I`d like to know what these two one-man, fly-by-night, back bedroom distros have that any other organized commercial mainstream distro doesn`t?
PCLOS, We all know all that is is a live-cd rip off Mandrake. Even managed to borrow Mandrake`s bloat. Ever tried it? Over 2.2 min. from boot2login, over distros boot on this same system in under 45 sec.
Mepis had 3 updates to the stable 10 version just to fix problems with the installer. It has fuzzy fonts which are very hard on the eyes and the desktop lacks gloss. See the new beta? They`ve done changed the media player 3x cause they can`t make up their mind.
So why all the hype??? Because they`re in the top 10 on the HPD counter? Who cares??? Personally I never trusted the HPD since Yoper was speed boosted to the #1 position and hung in there for so long. Tried it couldn`t figure out what all the hype was about. See Yoper recently, had to switch RPM based just to try to attract a new user base.
Personally I think you all got it out against Lycoris just because of the fact that it is based off Caldera.
108 • Forum quality (by Cintra at 2004-05-23 13:50:22 GMT)
When looking at distributions, one should perhaps take forum quality into account. The activity level, new posts since last visit for example, is one indication, in which case Gentoo would, I believe, be top of the list, also for real help given.
Some other major players have disappointingly low activity, and questionable degrees of, no doubt well meant, help.
Regards
109 • Would you look at that... (by Mike on 2004-05-23 17:17:08 GMT)
Mandrake has been knocked off the 1 month HPD top spot by Fedora. Guess the new counter's working.
110 • Ferdora is my fav (by Rick at 2004-05-23 18:05:19 GMT)
I think Fedora is more interesting for those that one to test the limits. Redhat did the right thing as far as I'm concerned. It was always too conservative for me.
Cheers
111 • Drop any distro... (by Ariszlo at 2004-05-23 20:51:09 GMT)
Drop any distro that fails to install on modern hardware like Desktop/LX or does not allow you to install Linux to a partition of your choice.
112 • No subject (by Leonardo at 2004-05-23 23:08:02 GMT)
"More requests for search and distro categories , as if I haven't had enough of them :-(
My question is: besides requests, can any of you offer help with implementing these features? It's easy to spend 5 minutes to write that "I want this feature or that feature", but do you realise that it would take days of coding to implement your requests? Please don't write that you want something, offer help instead. If you can't code, then learn, or wait until I find the time to code.
I do want to listen to your requests and code in all the requested features, but I just don't have the time (or money to employ a programmer)."
Ladislav:
Ok, i cant code, but im willing to help in the issue i "requested", although mine wasnt a request, but a _suggestion_ that instead of tops it would be more useful to have categories...
I can fill some kind of data base, or whatever, with the categories for every Distro, and then send it to you if you find any real use for it...
I forgot to mention this earlier in my previous post, i really apreciate all the hard work you put into the site, and im sorry if i sounded like ... well, "a free time project abuser"...
if i dont get a reply from you to my mail (either telling me im useless --it can be a more formal rejection--, or that its ok and i can begin working on a database), i will mail you this same thing, as i will asume you didnt read the message.
(Remove the [no-al-spam!] thingy from my mail :))
Again, thanks for the hard work!
113 • FreeBSD, Why? (by Youlle on 2004-06-04 21:18:31 GMT)
why put freeBSD in top 10, is FreeBSD based on the linux kernel all of a sudden? erm... no BSD variants are called Flavours, Linux Kernel based Os's are called Distro's its called DistroWatch for a reason, also the title of the website is "DistroWatch.com : put the fun back into computing. Use Linux" no mention of BSD.
Number of Comments: 113
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