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1 • RE:"Running Android apps on a desktop Linux system" (by LinuxNeckBeard on 2016-12-05 00:40:15 GMT from United States) |
maybe a compatibility layer could be built that allows users to run android apps on a x86 linux desktop or laptop, sort of like the way wine allow users to run windows apps on linux
2 • New header (by Pikolo on 2016-12-05 01:19:41 GMT from United Kingdom)
The new header is less functional, and thus worse. It might make sense on smaller screens, but on a typical 16:9 display, it's a waste of space. I'm voting no.
3 • new header bar appearance (by mi on 2016-12-05 01:21:30 GMT from Switzerland)
I like the new top bar. The flat logo also looks good (even though I'll miss the old familiar one!); yet, it became very inconspicuous, specially close to the contrast of the background with the top-bar.
4 • new header bar appearance (by mi on 2016-12-05 01:26:09 GMT from Switzerland)
and I agree with Pikolo on the functionality. I tend to like all the information/links already well spread out for quick look/click. But I also have to admit that my taste does not goes with the most of the people. The new design does make it look more modern!
5 • Header (by Kragle von Schnitzelbank on 2016-12-05 01:41:18 GMT from United States)
No search? Not even a drop-down? Way too dumbed-down for me. Just sayin'.
6 • header bar (by a on 2016-12-05 01:42:39 GMT from France)
The current header works for me, but I don’t know if the new one will, so I voted to keep the old one. Unfortunately I’ve noticed a trend in the past few years: user interfaces and web sites are getting worse. So I’m cautious.
7 • Like the newer header bar. (by Roy on 2016-12-05 01:58:56 GMT from United States)
Newer header bar reminds me of a good magazine or newspaper. This is a good site and popular. In the words of Microsoft, "Where do you want to go from here?" The opinion poll and the comment section is an easy answer for me. Even with a large monitor some web browsers are large at the top. So the new header-bar might say lets eat desert first so to speak. And from reading comments before mine I might have that backwards.
8 • Like New Ones, Like Old Functionality (by BeGo on 2016-12-05 03:53:46 GMT from Indonesia)
Like the new design. Much more cleaner. :)
Should be shown to us where the old functionalities implemented. ;)
9 • Header design (by Romane on 2016-12-05 04:56:12 GMT from Australia)
I like the new header design, but wonder where the missing links from there will go. Use the search a lot, with its capacity to filter distributions based on various criteria, but that has gone from the new header.
Just a quick note re the ad in the section where we can make these comments. Don't mind an ad, but it pushes the title of the first input box way up high, so I usually end up reading the titles as being beneath the input box, then having to redo them when realise other way round. Perhaps the title of the first box can be pushed down somehow to live immediately above its child.
10 • new header (by peer on 2016-12-05 06:53:30 GMT from Netherlands)
During the week I always use the 'Comments' link in the header. This link has disappeared in the new header. Please put it also in the new header.
11 • Header bar (by DaveW on 2016-12-05 12:54:01 GMT from United States)
It is a cleaner and more attractive header; however, the missing links do make it more difficult to get to the needed information. Maybe they could be put into a drop-down menu? I would have to see the changes in action to really decide if I liked it.
12 • flat (by curious on 2016-12-05 13:02:30 GMT from Germany)
The new header bar is flat - no more 3d elements. That is "modern" or trendy or whatever you want to call it. But I like 3d, so I'm voting "no".
13 • Fedora 25 review (by Barnabyh on 2016-12-05 13:11:03 GMT from United Kingdom)
Thanks for the review. I like it when from time to time someone else writes a review, or guest review, and this was certainly very informative.
I might even try Fedora again, but with good old Xorg. Don't want no funny stuff ;).
14 • Fedora 25 first impressions (by Mark D on 2016-12-05 13:57:19 GMT from United Kingdom)
I've installed Fedora 25 under Qemu/KVM and it is working surprisingly quickly and smoothly for a VM. I don't understand (yet) how Wayland is different from Xorg, but it is working well for me so far.
15 • header bar (by wally olson on 2016-12-05 13:59:29 GMT from United States)
I am so sick of 'eye candy'. It has been the bane of more distros than I can count. Make it look good, BUT after first making it functional.
My desktop is not art, it's a workplace.
16 • New Design (by John on 2016-12-05 15:26:20 GMT from Canada)
As long as you don't lose any search functionality then I like the new layout. But being able to quickly find distros based on the various criteria you currently have is awesome and not something to discard
17 • Header design (by Mark A on 2016-12-05 15:39:46 GMT from United States)
I get that Distrowatch is moving towards accommodating mobile, which is the inevitable march of things these days. In making more mobile friendly design and creating ease of maintaining for both mobile and desktop for the website, I hope underlying functionality is not sacrificed. Linux and the other distros this site is devoted to are mainly for use of desktop users, not mobile. That is your audience. Please keep this in mind and proceed with caution.
18 • New header (by Jordan on 2016-12-05 15:53:13 GMT from United States)
Looks like the ad is what the site is about, then you notice "oh, yeah, it says 'distrowatch' over there on the left."
19 • Random Distribution Button (by Justin on 2016-12-05 16:29:07 GMT from United States)
I noticed that the "Random Distribution" button disappeared in the proposed new header. Will that feature still be included? More sites should have a feature like this to encourage discovery of new items. I use the button to learn about or find distributions that I've never heard of.
20 • "flat" (by Kragle on 2016-12-05 16:40:38 GMT from United States)
3D (on a 2D display) requires a little more processing than "flat". 2D is not "new" (it's very old) or "trendy", but it's likely corporate marketing departments have been told to push "flat", to save on resources. Perhaps only the affluent (and spendthrift) can afford 3D?
Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Many browsers facilitate basic font and color palette controls; some use this to improve readability or low-light visibility and reduce irritations.
And some people deliver art ...
21 • New Header Design (by LT on 2016-12-05 16:50:46 GMT from Canada)
I like the new header design, the old one was a little too big for my liking. On the old header some of the links on the right side should actually be placed in a footer bar not the header IMO. I think on the new header you should keep the Select Distribution drop down button though.
Just wondering what why you need two Sitemap links?
22 • New Design (by dragonmouth on 2016-12-05 16:56:51 GMT from United States)
New design - cleaner, prettier but much less useful. Definitely against it.
Old design - all the links that I might want to use are right there, I don't have to look for them through a maze of menus.
BTW - in the image of the new design "Site Map" link appears twice. Is that a mistake or by design?
23 • Fedora review (by John on 2016-12-05 17:31:45 GMT from United Kingdom)
I must say, reading a review of Fedora from someone who has only used Fedora since it was first created, is not really a very informative review. More of a fanboy rant. If Joshua had used other Linux distros he might discover that Fedora really isn't up to scratch, as Jesse Smith discovered in his review of a previous Fedora release.
24 • Mobile version of Distrowatch (by email@example.com on 2016-12-05 17:55:57 GMT from United States)
I just finished reading the latest edition of your weekly letter. I love the new mobile version. So much better on a mobile phone! Thank you
25 • Mobile version (by mn on 2016-12-05 18:15:10 GMT from United States)
The mobile version looks normal, but there is no way to open the comments page.
If you are changing the normal page to a modern one, have a same size black (or any other color) row as on the top and place all links to other pages on that row. Have a look at noobslab site for inspiration.
26 • Header (by Antony on 2016-12-05 18:19:03 GMT from United Kingdom)
I like the proposal for the new header - but I would definitely not like an ad to be more prominent that the DW logo itself.
27 • New Design (by Lucas on 2016-12-05 20:44:41 GMT from Brazil)
1. I am not related to DistroWatch, I do not work for them or anything. I suggested this design and sent it by email. They made the pool and now it's there.
2. There's no credit for me, and I don't want it. I did not made this header suggestion to grab any attention or for self-promotion. I made it for the linux community and I want to hear everyone's ideas on how I can make it better for new users who are used to a more modern and responsive design while trying to make the change comfortable for everyone who is used to DistroWatch as it is right now. Please do not contact me about DistroWatch, keep this discussion here! I'll keep watching it and trying to merge every opinion in my design.
The HTML version of this also contains an update for command line browsers: http://imgur.com/a/F5KG9
Of course it's just a prototype and I hated it myself. I made two versions of the markup, this one is a new, the other one keeps things exactly the same.
I'll try to make a more complete version, also adding a navigation bar below the header.
This might answer everyone's questions.
I am sorry, it was my mistake. I didn't noticed the extra "Site Map" link as I was more focused on designing the header and trying to keep DW's visual identity.
@LT Check this http://imgur.com/a/mrOL0 for the expanded search.
@Justin It can be placed in there.
@Jordan please check second image description on the album I linked above. If you load the current layout in a 1024px width screen you will have the same feeling.
@Pikolo My original idea was to 'compress' the content in the header depending on the screen width. In 1920px it can hold more content so this space will be used to make it look more like it is right now.
28 • New Design (by More Gee on 2016-12-05 21:13:50 GMT from United States)
An update to the pure HTML version for command line browsers. I'm in, now the wife can have more bandwidth and not get blamed for going over quota. That is the version we should be updating more often.
29 • New Header Bar Design (by cykodrone on 2016-12-05 22:24:21 GMT from Canada)
I like it, nice job, looks great. I'm very pleasantly surprised, honestly, I was expecting a dog's breakfast, shame on me. 8O
30 • cosign @ 2 & 18 (and others) (by mud on 2016-12-05 23:15:37 GMT from United States)
the take away i got from last week's comments was: fix what's not right (mobile and comments links, for example) and leave the rest alone... which made me happy.
the provided example this week of what you seem to want is prettier, but its useless and it focuses on an ad.
no one is here to be impressed by your 1337 design skillz... we are here for the meat of the site.
also, you may think that making your ads more visible and prominent will help, but it wont. the professionals who do use your ads already treat them as part of the resource of this site and the rest of us who dont are mostly partaking in the "free as in beer" part of freedom and not gonna buy. those of us in the "free as in speech" camp have already blocked what few scripts you are running now and wont appreciate your pretty new nested nav.
31 • @27 (by mud on 2016-12-05 23:20:26 GMT from United States)
no offense intended, Lucas... it does look great! i didnt see your comment earlier.
its great you have stepped up to try and help!
32 • Header (by Mitchell on 2016-12-06 00:26:49 GMT from United States)
Nice! Less is more. With search capabilities why do we need Everything cluttering up the space? Simple, clean and neat
33 • Enough ! Already ! (by RollMeAway on 2016-12-06 03:21:44 GMT from United States)
Numerous websites and forums exist for website design.
Please reset this one back to linux and BSD conversations!
34 • Fedora 25 (by fox on 2016-12-06 04:52:50 GMT from Canada)
Like Joshua, I was pretty impressed with how far Wayland has come, especially given the status of Mir in Ubuntu 16.10. I recently updated a Fedora 24 installation with the current version, and I couldn't find any major problems with Wayland on my Acer Aspire laptop, nor on an iMac where I installed Fedora 25 anew. One program that Joshua didn't mention that doesn't work on Wayland is gparted; it wouldn't even start up. But it runs fine on X. Hopefully this will be fixed soon. One thing I would like to see changed in Fedora Workstation is the default installation with LVM. This makes no sense to me for most potential users of Workstation, as opposed to users of Server. But overall, Fedora 25 seems like a nice upgrade over 24.
35 • Fedora 25 impressions so far (by far2fish on 2016-12-06 11:35:17 GMT from Denmark)
After rolling with Antergos for the past two years on my laptop at home, I installed Fedora 25 a few days after it's release. The primary motivation for getting back to Fedora is that I recently switched jobs, and have been using Fedora 23 on my work desktop. So it was a good moment to align my Linux usage both at home and at work. So I also reinstalled my work desktop with Fedora 25 too.
When I made the switch to a rolling release two years ago it was because I was tired of reinstalling or upgrading every 6 months, with the software tweaking and customizing that follow suit.
With the return to Fedora 25 I made sure to do all additional software installs, GUI tweaks, customizations and tweaks automated with Ansible. It took a few hours to write the playbook and perhaps half a day to improve the play, but the end result is that I can setup Fedora to my liking automatically in less than 10 minutes. In fact I haven't done anything manually post install. Ansible did everything.
Wayland has run rock solid so far. Fedora 25 supposedly also came with MP3 playback out of the box this time, butI have not tried it.
36 • New to waiting list (by joerufus on 2016-12-06 13:03:41 GMT from United States)
Surprised to see Zephyr Linux added to waiting list. Have used both Debian and Devuan for about a year and found them both excellent distributions. Very low memory usage on both the laptop and desktop. Overall just a great distro without a lot of bloat.
Wanted to thank the folks at DistroWatch for including it's users and participants with updating it current appearance. Honestly found it quite easy to navigate and the vanilla yellow is easy on the eyes. The website has a lot to offer covering many topics and bits and pieces of information. Q & A by Jessie Smith is always very informative with a lot of great insight into the Linux world of computing.
Whatever DW settles on, will be happy with their decision. As for one not complaining about what evidently was already very well thought out web site.
37 • Proposed Distrowatch layout change (by A. Nonymous on 2016-12-06 16:00:44 GMT from United States)
I strongly disagree with the proposed changes. Leave it just the way it is. This site is to provide information.You should not have to dig for it. The current layout makes the information easily accessible. Don't change it. Except for maybe the ugly "dirty yellow" color scheme. And don't bother dumbing it down to cater to mobile device users - they don't even know what F/LOSS is, and wouldn't care anyway.
P.S. - a good example to imitate is: https://archlinux.org: "Just the facts, Ma'am, just the facts".
38 • New Header Design (by sherman jerrold on 2016-12-06 20:38:49 GMT from United States)
Distrowatch is a vital and substantive source of Linux info. The current/old header has all those great text links at the top in a concise single location. I know some think it's 'new and cool' to spread things all over. However, I (and many other respondents) think keeping all the essential links in one place facilitates ease of navigation and reduces wasted time looking for or drilling down through layers and then sometimes having to redrill in another branch to find a specific topic of info. I value the great info, not a 'cool' look. AND the 'jump to bottom of comments' and 'security advisories' are very good ideas. A mobile site version is needed, even though I won't be using it. I hope you will remain focused on substance not style. Thanks.
39 • No new change (by Hello on 2016-12-06 21:01:36 GMT from United States)
I don't see a reason to change the header at all for the site, it looks nice as it is and it's stupid and mind blowing for companies to change things like logos, websites, etc. just to change them when things look good and work fine. It's unfortunate so many people like minimalism, it looks so immature and like a little kid made it (in my opinion), it's not mature looking or professional for a company or website and I don't think it makes a company or website look good at all. Maybe instead of introducing drastic change like I see you want to do like so many others with minimalism, we can have different themes so people who want the site how they want it to look can do that without a permanent change for everyone. I'd like the default look of the site and header how it looks now and if so many people like this minimalism crap (my opinion), have a option for that as a theme too with the minimalistic heading. Give people a choice instead of introducing drastic change that will alienate a lot of people.
40 • Android apps on Linux (by Blue Jay on 2016-12-07 03:36:11 GMT from United States)
There's a project called Shashlik ( www.shashlik.io ) that's aiming to allow Android apps to run natively on Linux.
There's also the efforts of VolksPC on their own Debian-based distro/software ( www.volkspc.org/unified-distribution ) that aims for seamless native Debian/Android app compatibility.
41 • open ports (by jmgomez_f on 2016-12-07 04:11:36 GMT from Philippines)
Has anyone ever checked if the live DVD or USB images have open ports before or during installations? I have noticed Rosa has a lot of open ports and even failed the ShieldsUp test at grc.com. So far it is the only Distro that I know of that has failed this test.
42 • @39 header change (by Jordan on 2016-12-07 17:53:36 GMT from United States)
Yes I agree. But to add that we distro hop, most of us. Even when the distro we're using is working fine and we're happy with it. ;)
43 • Running Android apps on a desktop Linux system (by Simon Wainscott-Plaistowe on 2016-12-08 18:45:03 GMT from New Zealand)
I was impressed by RemixOS ( www.jide.com/remixos-for-pc ) which is based on Android-x86
44 • Header (by Some Guy on 2016-12-09 05:19:33 GMT from France)
Sorry, but I'm not going to be happy until you reinstate the original DW girl in the the site header.
45 • Random distro (by Jesse on 2016-12-09 19:19:57 GMT from Canada)
@19: I have been thinking about swapping out the random button with a weekly featured distro to try to expose lesser known projects. It's not a sure thing at the moment, just an idea I'm playing with.
46 • Suggested "header" change (by eco2geek on 2016-12-09 21:13:07 GMT from United States)
My favorite part of the current "header" is the drop-down "Select Distribution" box/"Go" button combination. For some reason I like using that more than using a search box, and I'd hate to see it go away.
Also, I don't really care for the banner ad that takes up most of the space, but I do understand that you've got to pay the bills.
47 • Web interface changes ... in general. (by Greg Zeng on 2016-12-10 03:30:42 GMT from Australia)
Old-timers might prefer serif-fonts, 3D & adornments, on large desktop-only displays. As we are now having battery-powered, hand-held devices to use the Internet, the pioneering example of the Distrowatch changes are welcome.
Distrowatch audiences are very specialized upstream users of web interfaces. The principles in the design decisions here, also apply to the hundreds of Linux-BSD distributions. Perhaps the distribution reviewers might mention these remnants of the old times?
So many "alternatives" add ear & eye-candy, which might be OK for some Distribution creators, in an effort to be different from the established Distributions. My problem in my old age is the lack of easy adjustment for sight-impaired people. Installation & running of any operating system should allow very early access to clearer, simpler interface displays.
48 • fedora 25 (by k on 2016-12-11 19:43:52 GMT from United States)
thank you joshua and distrowatch for another educational and practical review, and
thank you very much fedora and wayland developers for an evolutionary leap.
Number of Comments: 48
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
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|• Issue 736 (2017-10-30): Ubuntu 17.10, "what if" security questions, Linux Mint to support Flatpak, NetBSD kernel memory protection|
|• Issue 735 (2017-10-23): ArchLabs Minimo, building software with Ravenports, WPA security patch, Parabola creates OpenRC spin|
|• Issue 734 (2017-10-16): Star 1.0.1, running the Linux-libre kernel, Ubuntu MATE experiments with snaps, Debian releases new install media, Purism reaches funding goal|
|• Issue 733 (2017-10-09): KaOS 2017.09, 32-bit prematurely obsoleted, Qubes security features, IPFire updates Apache|
|• Issue 732 (2017-10-02): ClonOS, reducing Snap package size, Ubuntu dropping 32-bit Desktop, partitioning disks for ZFS|
|• Issue 731 (2017-09-25): BackSlash Linux Olaf, W3C adding DRM to web standards, Wayland support arrives in Mir, Debian experimenting with AppArmor|
|• Issue 730 (2017-09-18): Mageia 6, running a completely free OS, HAMMER2 file system in DragonFly BSD's installer, Manjaro to ship pre-installed on laptops|
|• Issue 729 (2017-09-11): Parabola GNU/Linux-libre, running Plex Media Server on a Raspberry Pi, Tails feature roadmap, a cross-platform ports build system|
|• Issue 728 (2017-09-04): Nitrux 1.0.2, SUSE creates new community repository, remote desktop tools for GNOME on Wayland, using Void source packages|
|• Issue 727 (2017-08-28): Cucumber Linux 1.0, using Flatpak vs Snap, GNOME previews Settings panel, SUSE reaffirms commitment to Btrfs|
|• Issue 726 (2017-08-21): Redcore Linux 1706, Solus adds Snap support, KaOS getting hardened kernel, rolling releases and BSD|
|• Issue 725 (2017-08-14): openSUSE 42.3, Debian considers Flatpak for backports, changes coming to Ubuntu 17.10, the state of gaming on Linux|
|• Issue 724 (2017-08-07): SwagArch 2017.06, Myths about Unity, Mir and Ubuntu Touch, Manjaro OpenRC becomes its own distro, Debian debates future of live ISOs|
|• Issue 723 (2017-07-31): UBOS 11, transferring packages between systems, Ubuntu MATE's HUD, GNUstep releases first update in seven years|
|• Issue 722 (2017-07-24): Calculate Linux 17.6, logging sudo usage, Remix OS discontinued, interview with Chris Lamb, Debian 9.1 released|
|• Issue 721 (2017-07-17): Fedora 26, finding source based distributions, installing DragonFly BSD using Orca, Yunit packages ported to Ubuntu 16.04|
|• Issue 720 (2017-07-10): Peppermint OS 8, gathering system information with osquery, new features coming to openSUSE, Tails fixes networking bug|
|• Issue 719 (2017-07-03): Manjaro 17.0.2, tracking ISO files, Ubuntu MATE unveils new features, Qubes tests Admin API, Fedora's Atomic Host gets new life cycle|
|• Issue 718 (2017-06-26): Debian 9, support for older hardware, Debian updates live media, Ubuntu's new networking tool, openSUSE gains MP3 support|
|• Issue 717 (2017-06-19): SharkLinux, combining commands in the shell, Debian 9 flavours released, OpenBSD improving kernel security, UBports releases first OTA update|
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|• Issue 715 (2017-06-05): Devuan 1.0.0, answering questions on systemd, Linux Mint plans 18.2 beta, Yunit/Unity 8 ported to Debian|
|• Issue 714 (2017-05-29): Void, enabling Wake-on-LAN, Solus packages KDE, Debian 9 release date, Ubuntu automated bug reports|
|• Issue 713 (2017-05-22): ROSA Fresh R9, Fedora's new networking features, FreeBSD's Quarterly Report, UBports opens app store, Parsix to shut down, SELinux overview|
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|• Issue 710 (2017-05-01): TrueOS 2017-02-22, Debian ported to RISC-V, Halium to unify mobile GNU/Linux, Anbox runs Android apps on GNU/Linux, using ZFS on the root file system|
|• Issue 709 (2017-04-24): Ubuntu 17.04, Korora testing new software manager, Ubuntu migrates to Wayland, running Nix package manager on alternative distributions|
|• Issue 708 (2017-04-17): Maui Linux 17.03, Snaps run on Fedora, Void adopts Flatpak, running Android apps on GNU/Linux, Debian elects Project Leader|
|• Issue 707 (2017-04-10): PCLinuxOS 2017.03, Canonical stops Unity development, OpenBSD on a Raspberry Pi, setting up a VPN for privacy|
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|• Issue 704 (2017-03-20): ToarusOS 1.0.4, Linux Mint's security record, Debian starts Project Leader election, Ubuntu 12.04 reaches end-of-life|
|• Issue 703 (2017-03-13): SolydXK 201701, CloudReady, Solus announces new features, KDE Connect sends text messages from desktop, openSUSE's YaST module for Let's Encrypt|
|• Issue 702 (2017-03-06): Fatdog64 Linux, elementary OS bundled with new netbook, Haiku announces new features, security and the size of a distro's development team|
|• Issue 701 (2017-02-27): OBRevenge 2017.02, Mageia 6 delays, NetBSD reproducible builds, questions about swap space, trying to steam video on a Raspberry Pi|
|• Issue 700 (2017-02-20): RaspBSD, Debian replaces Icedove with Thunderbird, Fedora's licensing guidlines, tips for switching shells, finding battery charge, getting IP address and killing processes|
|• Issue 699 (2017-02-13): Clear Linux, GhostBSD network utility ported to FreeBSD, Ubuntu coming to Fairphone, elementary OS crowd funding an app store|
|• Issue 698 (2017-02-06): Solus 2017.01.01, comparing containers with portable applicatins, Tails dropping 32-bit support, Debian Stretch enters freeze|
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|• Issue 696 (2017-01-23): GoboLinux 016, remotely running desktop applications, Solus adopting Flatpak, KDE neon using Calamares, TrueOS tests OpenRC|
|• Issue 695 (2017-01-16): Zorin OS 12, Peppermint team fixes installer bug, Debian refreshes Jessie media, Ubuntu improves low graphics mode, Exciting things coming in 2017|
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|• Issue 693 (2017-01-02): Comparing small distros, fig language, video driver comparsion, Debian+PIXEL, Wayland on FreeBSD|
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|• Issue 691 (2016-12-12): SalentOS 1.0, openSUSE improves YaST, Fedora considers slower release cycle, KDE neon gets LTS branch|
|• Issue 690 (2016-12-05): Fedora 25, Ubuntu adopts rolling HWE kernel, running Android apps on GNU/Linux, Haiku working toward EFI support|
|• Issue 689 (2016-11-28): openSUSE 42.2, Fedora's upgrade path, plans for Korora 25, transitioning from PC-BSD to TrueOS, Webconverger's reproducible builds|
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|• Full list of all issues|
|Random Distribution |
Korora was born out of a desire to make Linux easier for new users, while still being useful for experts. The main goal of Korora is to provide a complete, easy-to-use system for general computing. Originally based on Gentoo Linux in 2005, Korora was re-born in 2010 as a Fedora Remix with tweaks and extras to make the system "just work" out of the box.