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1 • LXQt is also already available in OpenMandriva (by Bero on 2014-05-12 09:53:42 GMT from Germany) |
OpenMandriva Cooker already contains LXQt 0.7.0 as well.
2 • Red Hat's Market *Is* the Enterprise Market (by joncr on 2014-05-12 12:23:15 GMT from United States)
The target market for RHEL *is* the enterprise, not the desktop. The desktop is there for enterprise customers who need it, primarily for employees who need to run in-house apps. Releatively few people will use RHEL 7 as a general purpose Linux desktop, and most of those won't buy subscriptions, they will just use CentOS 7.
Assessing the success or failure of an RHEL 7 pre-release effort by anecdotal evidence among personal acquaintances is pointless and sure to be inaccurate. The way to measure it is by looking at its adoption rate after release and at Red Hat's stock price, revenue, and profits.
3 • Ubuntu taking control again (by Bill on 2014-05-12 14:30:29 GMT from United States)
Okay, so I downloaded Lubuntu 14.04 LTS and installed the Mate DE with emerald themes. I've been running it happily for a week now. Yesterday I noticed
the Update icon flashing so I took a look and it said, "Ubuntu Base,"
had an update. But after updating, I found out that Ubuntu had changed my Firefox home page to Ubuntu Google, and changed my search bar from DuckDuckGo to Ubuntu Google Search. wtf?
I knew they were spying with the Dash which I don't have on my computer, but now they reach right into my home and change my home page and search bar. Geez! If I had wanted Microsoft I would have installed it.
I guess it's time to dump Ubuntu for real and install a Debian distro like Point Linux. At least they let you own your own computer!
4 • LXQt (by Koroshiya Itchy on 2014-05-12 16:30:11 GMT from Belgium)
The availability of LXQt is great news. Now we will have a two decent GTK-based DEs (Mate and Xfce) and two decent QT-based DEs (LXQt and KDE).
In the QT side of things duplicity seems justified because LXQt is a lightweight DE whereas KDE is a full-featured heavyweight DE.
However, provided that both Mate and Xfce are lightweight, would suggesting a merge seem reasonable?
5 • @3 Ububtu...m @4 (by fernbap on 2014-05-12 18:39:09 GMT from Portugal)
I can tell about my own experience. I installed Mate on top of both Lubuntu and Xubuntu. Comparing the 2, it didn't take long for me to ditch Lubuntu + Mate and keep Xubuntu + Mate, perhaps because XFCE has much more in common with Mate than LXDE.
So far, i have done all updates and nothing of the sort happened to me, which in part explains why Xubuntu is getting so popular. I still prefer Mate, though.
"However, provided that both Mate and Xfce are lightweight, would suggesting a merge seem reasonable?"
Probably not. I think none of them has anything to offer to the other, but that is just my opinion.
It would be more likely for them to move to GTK3, but i don't see it happening in the hear future.
6 • Mate, Xfce and GTK3 (by Jeff on 2014-05-12 21:41:31 GMT from United States)
Mate and Xfce moving to GTK3 would be the ruin of both projects.
Each new release of GTK3 purposely breaks the previous ones.
Mate and Xfce would be constantly chasing a moving and elusive target.
What really needs done is forking GTK2 so the Gnome devs can play their little games without bothering everyone else.
GTK GIMP Tool Kit (it predates Gnome)
GTK3 Gnome Tool Kit
7 • wattOS (by cykodrone on 2014-05-12 22:46:47 GMT from Canada)
I dug an old P4 1.7GHz (OCed to 2GHz) out of the closet and tried the live 32-bit Openbox version, I have to say I was very impressed, it ran like a new-ish computer, a few programs opened slow-ish but that's to be expected. I think this project is doing a great service by keeping aging computers out of landfills. I am also very pleased they decided to go with a Debian base. I was so impressed I downloaded (via bit torrent) ALL their versions to give 'em a whirl. I'm dying to see how the 32-bit Mate and LXDE versions will fare on the P4.
8 • Lumina (by joe f. on 2014-05-12 23:39:29 GMT from United States)
I understand the desire for the BSD Desktop Lumina, but really, why make Fluxbox look like an oddly configured XFCE? Seems to miss the point -- at least the points that make me use it.
9 • @2 "Red Hat's Market" (by Wil on 2014-05-13 08:16:50 GMT from United States)
You're mistaking Jesse's expression of sentiment, for a prospectus. Whent it was an aside to a review. You in fact corroborate his feelings. Kudos for your support if not for your tone, LOL.
10 • Attractive features @9 (by Koroshiya Itchy on 2014-05-13 09:58:35 GMT from Belgium)
Jessie Smith does not specify very clearly which are those "attractive features" that he is missing in in RHEL7. He just mentions administrative tools and Btrfs.
By "administrative tools" I guess he refers to graphical interfaces to those tools. I have used RHEL for years in the past and I never found myself wishing more GUI administrative tools than those provided. In fact, given that the intended users of RHEL are either system administrators or professionals with good IT support in their companies, those GUIs are, for the most, irrelevant. I myself have hardly ever used them (including when working with SuSE, which comes with great GUIs for all kind of tools).
So my guess is that RetHat, as the successful business it is, knows its customers well and focus its efforts on the features that are more relevant for them. Bling-bling does not seem to be one of them.
As for Btrfs, for many, it is not still mature enough for professional use. That said, any system administrator who wants to use it, will certainly find his way to do it, be it with RHEL or with any other system based on the Linux kernel.
The ideal filesystem for RH would probably be ZFS, but, provided that is not possible for legal reasons, XFS looks to me like a sane default.
I agree with @2 that one should not judge a professional OS from a home user perspective.
Finally, the comparison with Ubuntu, with its loose quality standards, is completely out of place. With all its bling-bling, Canonical is not a profitable company. Red Hat is. So, who is doing things right?
11 • Lumina (by Barnabyh on 2014-05-13 12:55:23 GMT from Serbia)
The Lumina desktop looks like an attractive project, I'm looking forward to be running it on Slackware one day. It should not be too difficult if it's written for FreeBSD and can be adapted to work on Ubuntu too.
Seems like a happy medium between Xfce and Openbox and may be my future desktop.
12 • enterprise systems (by greg on 2014-05-13 13:57:41 GMT from Slovenia)
yeah those Enteprise editions seem to be aimed at companies still using WinXP and that don't mind using MS office 2003 or osme other old stuff. others tend to move ahead implement and use new features etc. Red hat is obviously doing it right in recognising such a segment and making profit from it.
but sitll it's not just new features that are available in newer versions of software it's also the bugfixes. i am not sure if they are at least porting all those. i mean using newer libre office gives you bigger/better MS Office compatibility. so if you are a red hat only company working with other windows companies - how do you then benefit from running old Libre office?
13 • @3, It must just be Lubuntu. (by Garon on 2014-05-13 15:03:11 GMT from United States)
Very strange that you had that problem Bill. It hasn't happened to me on any of my installs. My main system runs Ubuntu 14.04 and my search is still DuckDuckGo, and none of my home pages have changed on any of my browsers or on any of the installs I have done. Also it's strange that you have had spy problems with Dash when I don't. Of course I don't use Lubuntu so I can't say what that development group has done. Why don't you ask them and then let us know what they say about it. Also always check what your system wants to update. You should never blindly download and install something when you don't know what it is.
14 • @13 blind updates (by Kazlu on 2014-05-13 15:57:30 GMT from France)
"You should never blindly download and install something when you don't know what it is."
That would leave a lot of people, including me, ignoring updates because they don't know each and every package in their system. Very risky. I always quickly check which packages are updated to be informed, but if I don't know a package I update it anyway. You gotta trust your distro editors there, especially a stable one like it's the case here with Ubuntu, else build your own distro. Plus Bill says the updated "package" is "Ubuntu base". If details could be shown (I don't know that), the concerned package would probably be "Firefox". Not applying these updates would mean risking security of the OS.
That being said, if the update is just labeled "Ubuntu base" without the possibility to show the details, that's a problem since you cannot even know what is updated.
Very strange problem indeed, it seems your Firefox has returned to its default configuration. Anyone else saw that?
15 • MATE and Xfce (by Kazlu on 2014-05-13 16:09:09 GMT from France)
I don't think a merge is likely. They are two GTK+2 lightweight DEs, but they have a different philosophy. Xfce is designed to be modular (components are kept as independant as possible) whereas GNOME2 (and therefore MATE) was designed to be a set of interdependant tools communicating and using one another.
I tried both and they actually feel different. I found MATE well done but I missed the configurability of Xfce, espacially in the panel. Plus I found no replacement for Whisker Menu which is a game changer (I tried Mint Menu but did not like it).
I'm not saying Xfce is better than MATE. MATE is easy to use and well done, it behaves well and is fast, it has just the right tools for most everyday needs. It's just not my cup of tea. Xfce is.
16 • Ubuntu @ 13 + 14 (by Bill on 2014-05-13 19:39:51 GMT from United States)
There was another "Ubuntu Base" update this morning, and everything is okay, nothing changed in Firefox. I DID notify Canonical about it, but haven't heard back yet. I will see if I can open that Ubuntu Base update next time to see what maybe inside, not sure if I can peek there or not.
17 • @3, @16 - Ubuntu vs. firefox; upgraded packages (by eco2geek on 2014-05-14 02:49:15 GMT from United States)
There's an Ubuntu extension for Firefox named, aptly enough, "Ubuntu Firefox Modifications". (Check Firefox's extensions manager for it.) Disable it if you like. Or uninstall it.
You can google it to find out exactly what it does. There's tons of information about it online.
Ubuntu installs this extension when it installs Firefox, and upgrades it when it requires upgrading. My guess would be that you already had Google as a search provider, and the recent Firefox upgrade (to version 29) just reset it. Duck Duck Go was most likely still there.
There is no "Ubuntu Google Search". Your searches go to Google, although they are identified as coming from an Ubuntu-branded version of Firefox. All of which you can tell by looking at the URL bar after doing a search from the home page.
As far as upgrades go, the Software Updater allows you to see the descriptions of all the packages you're installing. That's why there's an arrow next to "Details of updates." Try clicking on it.
If you really want to see the names of the packages that are being installed, and find out what each package does, and you're not comfortable with the command line, use Synaptic to upgrade your computer instead, and search for the package names before you do the upgrade.
And, of course, there's the command line.
18 • The State of Enlightenment? (by RollMeAway on 2014-05-14 04:16:52 GMT from United States)
Does anyone have a clue?
After 10 yr. of development, I was excited when e17 was released.
I expected the devs to flesh it out, maybe even create a usable file manager?
Instead it is a constant stream of new releases: e17.xxx then e18.xxx now e19.xxx.
Each point release breaks all themes and addon modules, until the creators of the
theme and modules re-compile and release new version.
It seems those creators of themes and addon modules are tired of playing catch up? I know I am.
Does anyone know what the objectives of the enlightenment developers are?
Any links to their philosophy or what their goal is would be much appreciated.
19 • Ubuntu extension (by Bill on 2014-05-14 21:33:38 GMT from United States)
@17 Ubuntu extension. I took your advise and siabled the ubuntu extension. I did not realize they had added it so I thank you. While I am comfortable with synaptic, I'm still learning on the cl.
20 • Enlightening the Enlightenment Foundation (by Somewhat Reticent on 2014-05-14 21:58:19 GMT from United States)
Lemmings leap into water, geeks fix (improve!) unbroken (lousy!) things - in this case, a toolset. This aspect of human nature makes sabotage relatively easy, so easy that several organizations repeatedly apply this process to their own toolsets.
That said, the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries have the potential (and ambition*) to design an elegant & efficient UI/WM/DE toolset. They just need 3 or more years between releases to give users thereof time to actually use it ... and, of course, accumulate resistance to incompatible changes ... (perhaps macro-conversion?) ... only after, that is, completion of the documentation, the target DE's apps (re-inventing wheels yet again?), and all of the libraries' modules, of course.
Meanwhile it makes a great creativity outlet for UI/WM/DE-toolset-developer (playground), and provides excellent exercise for over-energized distro-developers.
Imagine supporting all that creativity with funding (and internal sabotage?) from, say, the Core Infrastructure Initiative, Gnomes, the Unity group ...
21 • Heavy or light? (by Col. Panek on 2014-05-14 23:47:09 GMT from United States)
You see a lot of rumors about the "heaviness" of different distros and desktops. I'm running openSUSE KDE which is supposed to be "heavy" yet I use less memory than, say, Mint Cinnamon. Has anybody done a decent comparison of the main desktops and tabulated the results? Sometimes I want all the eye candy I can get, sometimes I need a minimalist one to fit an older machine. Seldom are memory requirements given by the distros.
22 • @19 -- Have fun learning... (by eco2geek on 2014-05-15 01:13:51 GMT from United States)
...but you might want to re-think that comparison to Microsoft you made.
There's many things you could criticize Canonical for, but they produce distros that are based on free and open-source software, and give them away -- completely unlike Microsoft.
23 • @21 Memory use (by Jeff on 2014-05-15 04:10:25 GMT from United States)
This seems to be fairly recent:
One thing I found interesting, TDE (Trinity based on KDE 3.5) uses less than half as much RAM as Razor-Qt
24 • @23: Razor-Qt (by AleCon on 2014-05-15 07:55:45 GMT from Italy)
Not sure I can agree with those results: perhaps there are other factor linked to the distro in use. Anyway Razor-Qt is no more. It is going to be replaced by LXQt that look rather promising as a lightweight DE
25 • @15 Xfce and Mate (by cykodrone on 2014-05-15 08:21:00 GMT from Canada)
I agree and I hope they don't merge too, I love Xfce the way it is now and hope it only gets better, merging with Mate would probably be a step backwards. Doesn't Xfce comply with FOSS DE guidelines where as Mate doesn't so much? Mate is Gnome 2.x on life support, it had its day in the sun, time to move on.
Re: LXQt, interesting project, I hope it goes places, I for one would love a lightweight alternative to KDE.
26 • Firefox and other Extensions (by Garon on 2014-05-15 16:07:50 GMT from United States)
Sorry, I always use the command line or Synaptic when I update. I need to remember that not everyone does that. Everyone is correct about the Firefox extensions and removing them. If you have ever used Mint and some others, they also have extensions for the browsers they use. Also I automatically disable the online search functions when I install so I never really think about it anymore. At least in the future it will be opt-in instead of opt-out.
27 • @22 comparison to Microsoft (by Jeff on 2014-05-15 18:35:08 GMT from United States)
Maybe you should read the Canonical Licensing Agreement, which has developers giving their intellectual property rights to Canonical.
Open source ?
Or the first step toward proprietary ?
28 • DEs weight and speed (by Kazlu on 2014-05-15 22:13:46 GMT from France)
@21: KDE is indeed heavy compared to other DEs, meaning is uses more RAM. That does not mean it's slower than others. The link #23 posted shows than KDE uses more RAM than GNOME Shell or Unity, but on my computer is runs much faster. RAM usage becomes important only when you have little of it, on an old computer for example. Besides, KDE uses still less RAM than Firefox with a couple of open tabs :)
@21: these measurements were made with raw DEs, as provided by the devs. Most distros adapt it, tweak it and complement it with other packages. If you compare the RAM usage of, say, the Xfce editions of several distros, the results will vary a lot.
29 • @ 21 Re: memory requiremts (by cykodrone on 2014-05-15 22:44:22 GMT from Canada)
Distros not stating memory requirements is not true, they almost all do, sometimes you have to dig a little on their websites. Even this site has a search tool: http://distrowatch.com/search.php ...under Distribution Category, drop it down and select 'old computers', just make sure you wind up with the right bit version(s), 32 or 64. I personally run Debian Xfce stable 7.x 64-bit, I love it, backports and non-free enabled (no PPAs), and I'm a seasoned distro hopper/tester. Xfce is customizable, just install themes, etc, it's a blast, Greybird and Agualemon blend together well.
30 • @27 - That's something you can criticize Canonical for (by eco2geek on 2014-05-15 23:01:13 GMT from United States)
That's something you can definitely criticize Canonical for.
Now go ask Microsoft whether or not they ask their employees about who owns the license to the code they produce.
Even selling code under a proprietary license is understandable; you yourself probably wouldn't want to work for free. But don't forget Microsoft's history of anti-competitive practices, the way they spread FUD about Linux, and their robber-baron mentality. Once Canonical starts doing all that, then you'll have a valid comparison.
31 • Whats so great about Fluxbox? Vs OpenBox. Just Curious. (by JD on 2014-05-16 03:05:54 GMT from )
I am not trying to start any kind of flame war or offend anyone but I hear so much about fluxbox and see it being used alot lately. However in my own testing I am disapointed with it compared to Openbox. Am I missing something? are they both simular? just diffrent config files? Fluxbox seems harder to configure to me. but I could be wrong. anyway thanks.
32 • Spoiled desktop user (by RollMeAway on 2014-05-16 04:13:26 GMT from United States)
For many many years, I have had the ability to have an application window remember its position and size, so next time I open it, it is in the same place and same size as last time. First seen by me in my win98 days.
Of all the variety of desktops in linux, only kde3, kde4 and enlightenment have this capability. If you know of others please post.
I have tried devilspie ( and gdevilspie), an application that claims to provide this function on any desktop. Tried it on several different distros and different desktops. I cannot get it to work.
I guess the majority of users do not tire of their apps opening in a tiny box in the middle of the screen, or some even a random corner of the screen.
I would think having to resize and reposition every app a user opens would have made this capability more universal.
Does the majority of users only open one app and go full screen?
33 • @32 window position and size (by Kazlu on 2014-05-16 09:23:41 GMT from France)
Usually I use only maximized windows (not full screen) and just alt-tab between them. Very occasionally I need a couple of windows side by side, but wen my task is over I go maximized again. For the sake of experience I tried to open and close VLC several times changing position and size in Manjaro Xfce and it remembers it. Same thing for Thunar. I suppose it is a configurable option somewhere in config files and most distros you tried did not use it that way, considering a default position and size is a better behaviour. Pure assumption though.
34 • @32, Majority of users? (by Garon on 2014-05-16 12:22:43 GMT from United States)
@27, "Maybe you should read the Canonical Licensing Agreement, which has developers giving their intellectual property rights to Canonical."
Really??? At least the user doesn't have to pay for the tools that are developed by the company. (SEE ROBOLINUX) I'm not saying that RoboLinux is doing anything wrong but if you work for a company and develop for them then you will lose your intellectual properly rights. Study up a little bit on what open source and free means and how it's used, and the GPL also. There are a lot of gray areas and a lot of different ways things can be done.
@32, "I guess the majority of users do not tire of their apps opening in a tiny box in the middle of the screen, or some even a random corner of the screen."
How do you know the majority of users have this problem? I don't have this problem and it seems that Kazlu doesn't have this problem. What I like is a standard size, or default size and position and then I can change it to my liking, for the time being. I surely wouldn't want the application window to stay where I had it last, or how I had it last. That would cause a total mess on a desktop. I also like virtual desktops, multiple monitors, and side by side. Everything can be controlled by config files.
35 • @32 remembering size-location (by cykodrone on 2014-05-16 12:44:54 GMT from Canada)
I absolutely agree, you would think a simple option in 'system settings' to turn it on or off globally would be available, even in KDE you have to navigate a special right-click menu to get certain windows to behave, this has perplexed me too, it's not like I'm low on SSD space (far from it) to store the window size-location data, lol. I am by no means a code-writer but after years of experience, it doesn't look like it would be that difficult to make this option available and work, *scratching head*.
36 • @30 (by Jeff on 2014-05-16 13:48:47 GMT from United States)
If you work for Microsoft you are an employee, it is to be expected that the work which the company pays you to do for them is the property of the company.
If you are a free/open source software developer (an unpaid volunteer) working on open source software then why should a company own the work that you do ?
37 • Canonical Ltd. contributor agreements - not ownership (by Somewhat Reticent on 2014-05-16 14:49:46 GMT from United States)
Just so we're clear, Canonical Ltd changed from copyright assignment to copyright permission back in 2011. Refer to Project Harmony.
38 • @31 (by Jeff on 2014-05-16 16:40:43 GMT from United States)
The config files for Fluxbox are plain text
The config files for Openbox are XML.
When I edit plain text, I have no problem.
When I try to edit XML manually, it makes me feel like a dyslexic with a migraine.
So to change Openbox I use GUI tools, which is ironic for something that is supposed to be simpler purer (geekier ?)
39 • @36 - Canonical has employees too, you know... (by eco2geek on 2014-05-17 00:47:00 GMT from United States)
...and they write open-source software.
40 • Re: Mate, foot in mouth (by cykodrone on 2014-05-19 00:13:24 GMT from Canada)
I am posting this from the live wattOS 64-bit Mate version, I have to say, I'm pleasantly surprised at the theme customizations and one thing Xfce doesn't have out of the box...sounds, I love system sounds, I am used to aural as well as visual feedback. I'm liking Mate enough to possibly start using it.
Number of Comments: 40
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|• Issue 653 (2016-03-21): Antergos 2016.02.21, Debian prepares for election, a Unix-like OS written in Rust, watching Netflix on FreeBSD|
|• Issue 652 (2016-03-14): ReactOS 0.4.0, Debian swaps Iceweasel for Firefox, Fedora moving forward with Wayland, Verifying ISO files|
|• Issue 651 (2016-03-07): Korora 23, Linux Mint improves security, Ubuntu MATE on Raspberry Pi 3 computers, trying different file systems|
|• Issue 650 (2016-02-29): Haiku in 2016, running Android apps on GNU/Linux, 30 years of MINIX, Fedora plans Atomic Workstation|
|• Issue 649 (2016-02-22): Zorin OS 11, openSUSE launches new editions, Linux Mint website compromised, sandboxing applications using Firejail|
|• Issue 648 (2016-02-15): XStream Desktop 153, Raspbian unveils OpenGL feature, free hardware, Ikey Doherty talks desktop design|
|• Issue 647 (2016-02-08): Tails 2.0, KDE project launches Neon, Manjaro unveils ARM support, FreeBSD's quarterly report|
|• Issue 646 (2016-02-01): deepin 15, Mint plans X-Apps, FreeBSD to support boot environments, logging into the desktop as root|
|• Issue 645 (2016-01-25): Linux Mint 17.3 "Xfce", Chromixium changes its name, Ubuntu tablets coming soon, Linux vs BSD comparision|
|• Issue 644 (2016-01-18): Kwort 4.3, Sabayon tests ARM images, Slackware adopts PulseAudio, running Linux without GNU software|
|• Issue 643 (2016-01-11): Solus 1.0, Mint provide upgrade path to 17.3, Fedora developers work on stability, running the LXQt desktop|
|• Full list of all issues|
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