| DistroWatch Weekly
|DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 532, 4 November 2013
Welcome to this year's 44th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! Debian is well known as a conservative distribution and, as a result, the project tends not to make news headlines. However, there were a lot of things to talk about this past week in the Debian community, including whether Debian should change the way the distribution starts up and manages services. We cover recent Debian developments and debates in the News section below. This week Jesse Smith takes two of Debian's more famous children, Ubuntu and Kubuntu, for a spin and reports on his findings. Also in this edition of DistroWatch Weekly we cover openSUSE's new desktop features and the arrival of FreeBSD's new binary package manager. Plus we discuss ARM-powered technology and some resources people can use to combine the power of Linux with popular (and low cost) ARM devices. As usual we cover distribution releases of the past week and look forward to scheduled new releases on the horizon. We wish you all a great week and happy reading!
|Feature Story (by Jesse Smith)
Ubuntu 13.10 - meeting the Saucy Salamander
About two weeks ago Canonical released an updated version of Ubuntu. The new version, 13.10 "Saucy Salamander", was a relatively tame release as far as features go. The new Ubuntu comes with new "smart scopes" to help people find files, applications and on-line products through the Dash. This version of Ubuntu comes with a port to the 64-bit ARM architecture and there is an experimental phone/mobile version of the popular Linux distribution. Originally it was thought Ubuntu 13.10 would feature the new Mir display server, but the developers have opted for a more conservative approach and the distribution still ships with the traditional X display server. Mir, for those who are interested in trying it, can be found in the distribution's software repositories. Ubuntu 13.10 comes with a short nine months of security updates and no Windows installer (as was available in most previous versions). Apart from the aforementioned ARM and mobile ports, Ubuntu's Desktop edition can be downloaded in 32-bit and 64-bit x86 builds. I opted to try the 32-bit build, the ISO for which is 895MB in size.
Booting from the Ubuntu disc brings up a graphical interface where we are asked if we would like to try running the distribution's live environment or if would we like to jump straight into the installation process. The Ubuntu system installer is, in my opinion, one of the nicer graphical installers in the Linux community. We are walked through guided or manual partitioning, and both approaches to carving the disk are quite intuitive. The system installer supports a wide variety of file systems for our disk partitions, letting users choose between ext2/3/4, Btrfs, JFS, XFS and LVM. Once we have divided the disk, the installer copies its files in the background while we confirm our time zone, select our keyboard's layout from a disk and create a user account. While we are creating the user account we have the option of encrypting the files in our home directory. The final page of the installer is, if I'm not mistaken, new and asks us to create a Single Sign-on account for Ubuntu One and other Ubuntu-related services. We have the ability to use an existing account or skip this step entirely if we do not wish to make use of Ubuntu's on-line services. Once the installer has finished copying its files we are prompted to reboot the machine.
I tried running Ubuntu 13.10 in a VirtualBox virtual machine and on my desktop box (dual-core 2.8GHz CPU, 6GB of RAM, Radeon video card, Realtek network card). When running in the virtual environment, Ubuntu would boot to a command line prompt. From there I could sign in and manually run "startx" to access the Unity graphical interface. When running on physical hardware I was brought to a graphical login page where I could login to Unity.
Ubuntu 13.10 - Unity's Dash and Software Centre
(full image size: 523kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
The Unity environment is an attempt to merge desktop workflows with mobile-style interfaces. Launch icons sit in a vertical column on the left side of the display. In the upper-left corner of the screen is a button for opening the Unity Dash, a place reserved for searching for applications, files and on-line content. Some people find the Unity desktop, with its focus on simplicity and its unified messaging system, intuitive. Others find it hampers their ability to multi-task. I'm not here to judge the design. What I will judge is Unity's performance. Within minutes it became obvious that I would not be able to use Unity for the duration of the day, let alone an entire week. In both the virtual machine and on my physical desktop Unity was painfully slow. Clicking on a button or typing a search into the Dash resulted in a delay of several seconds prior to the system responding. I could literally watch error messages slowly float into existence on the screen and closing pop-up messages took around five seconds. Any input resulted in a long delay before the interface would respond making the desktop hard to navigate. Unity tries to make use of 3-D visual effects and, when proper 3-D support is not offered by the video card (or its hardware drivers), then performance degrades in a hurry. Early versions of Unity shipped with a 2-D option which would let users access the Unity desktop without the performance draining visual effects, but that option has been dropped.
Since I wasn't able to make practical use of the Unity desktop my time with Ubuntu 13.10 was quite limited. In an effort to test drive the underlying technology available in the Ubuntu software repositories, I turned to a popular community project which is based on Ubuntu's software repositories: Kubuntu.
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The latest release of the Kubuntu distribution is also fairly tame in terms of features, but there are some key components and additions I feel are worth mentioning. The first is there are now commercial support offerings available to Kubuntu users via EmergeOpen. This is good news, especially for companies or non-profit organizations interested in deploying large Kubuntu installations. Also new with this release is a wireless network manager built into the Kubuntu system installer. This helps users get on-line and grab up-to-date packages when a wired network connection is not available. Kubuntu also comes with a new package manager, called Muon Discover. This new package manager brings a sleek interface to software management. Also worth mentioning are a new, simplified user account manager and an updated version of the KDE desktop -- Kubuntu ships with KDE 4.11.
The ISO file I downloaded for Kubuntu was approximately 1GB in size. Booting from this media image takes us through the same steps I experienced with the Ubuntu disc. The installer has the same steps, though it features a different theme. Where the Ubuntu system installer has rich, friendly colours, Kubuntu's version of the installer looks business-like and calm. The Kubuntu installer also features an additional screen which allows us to set up a wireless network connection. This connection allows the installer to download updated software, locate language packs and attempt to guess our time zone. The first time I tried to install Kubuntu I allowed the system installer to connect to the network and this resulted in the installation proceeding very slowly. It does not appear to be possible to skip downloading software repository information or language packs and it seems I was stuck with a slow mirror on Kubuntu's launch day. After about two hours the installer appeared to lock-up during its final stage and I was unable to proceed. I forced a reboot and found the Kubuntu operating system was not able to boot to a login prompt. I went back to square one and ran through the installation process again, this time with the network cable unplugged. Kubuntu installed inside twenty minutes without any problems and, upon rebooting the computer, Kubuntu brought me quickly to a graphical login screen.
On the login screen we are given the option of logging into our user account or logging into a guest account. The guest account has no password to protect it and is wiped clean after each use. It can be nice to have an account which is not protected by a password for when friends wish to borrow the computer, but it can also be a security hole. For this reason, Kubuntu provides an easy way to disable the guest account in the distribution's System Settings panel. When I first logged into Kubuntu I found the desktop was laid out in the traditional manner with the application menu, task switcher and system tray positioned at the bottom of the display. At first the system felt a little sluggish, but I found that once desktop effects, which are enabled by default, had been turned off the system was quick to respond.
Kubuntu 13.10 - KDE System Settings panel and application menu
(full image size: 496kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
One of the first things I tried to do once I got settled in was to run the software update application to check for security updates. The first time I ran the graphical update app it didn't appear to be working and a check showed the package information database had been locked. Presumably package information was locked while the system checked for updates in the background. Later I performed another check and the update manager worked, but I was warned that one of the repositories the manager had connected to had a bad security certificate. This meant the integrity of the package repository was in question and it was risky to proceed with downloading updates. In the end I proceeded with the updates, but I was concerned for the remainder of my trial that a repository may have been compromised.
Speaking of package management, I mentioned previously Kubuntu has a new graphical software manager. This application adds a little flash to package management. The new software manager allows us to search for software, browse categories of applications and queue packages for installation. There are other nice features too. For example, the package manager lists popular software items so we can get an idea of what was useful for other people. I suspect this new Discover software manager is meant to make package management in Kubuntu a similar experience to package management in Ubuntu with a bit more flash and recommended items. For the most part I think the new approach is good. The Discover front-end allows users to find software, install items with a single click and clicking on an item brings up a detailed description of the software, including screen shots. For people who would like a more traditional form of package management, Kubuntu ships with a no-frills graphical software manager that gives the user more fine-tuned control over individual packages rather than focusing on desktop-level applications, giving the user access to over 42,000 packages. Both the new Discover software manager and the traditional package manager have the ability to detect, download and apply security updates.
Kubuntu 13.10 - the new Discover package manager
(full image size: 278kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
Kubuntu comes with a small collection of desktop applications, most of which are associated with the KDE desktop. The distribution ships with the Rekonq web browser, the KTorrent bittorrent client, the KMail e-mail application and the Quassel IRC client. The KPPP dial-up software and Network Manager are available to help us get on-line. The distribution comes with the LibreOffice productivity suite and a document viewer. Kubuntu comes with a few multimedia applications, including the Amarok music player and the Dragon video player. Depending on our choices at install time we may also have access to media codecs for most popular multimedia formats. Kubuntu also comes with the k3b disc burning software, a screen magnifier, virtual calculator, file archive manager and text editor. We are given the KInfoCenter for discovering the characteristics of our computer's hardware. There is a utility called "Additional Drivers" which will help us find third-party hardware drivers for our system. In the background the distribution runs on the Linux kernel, version 3.11.
One of the nicer features of the Kubuntu distribution is the System Settings panel. This panel is available in all distributions shipping with KDE, but I think Kubuntu throws in a few extra features that I do not recall seeing in other Linux distributions to date. One feature is the ability to turn off the guest account, another is the account management system, which appears to have received a very nice overhaul since Kubuntu 13.04. I also noticed a social media account manager in the panel which allows us to keep in touch with contacts in a way which integrates nicely into the desktop. I haven't used this feature enough to decide whether I like it or not, but I think the idea of having a multi-protocol chat & notification client built into the desktop has the potential to be useful.
Kubuntu 13.10 - running various applications
(full image size: 340kB, screen resolution 1280x1024 pixels)
I ran Kubuntu in a VirtualBox virtual machine and on my desktop box, the same one I used to test Ubuntu. Kubuntu performed fairly well in both situations. On the physical hardware Kubuntu ran quickly and I experienced no hardware related problems. Running in the VirtualBox environment I found Kubuntu ran a bit slowly while desktop visual effects and KDE's file indexing were enabled. Once these two features were disabled Kubuntu ran smoothly in the virtual environment. The distribution used approximately 200MB of RAM while sitting idle at the KDE desktop.
Looking back on my time with Kubuntu 13.10 the thing which stood out the most was that not much stood out. Apart from having some network issues which slowed things down during my first installation attempt, my time with the distribution was quite good. The installer is nicely laid out, the KDE 4.11 desktop is quite polished, providing a clean, feature-rich environment. I like that Kubuntu comes with a guest account for those odd times people wish to borrow my computer. I'm also happy to see there is an option in the KDE System Settings panel to turn off the guest account for people who see the guest account as a security concern. The new user account manager is slick and easy to use, I'm quite happy to see it included in this release. So far I'm tentatively happy with the new Discover software manager. It looks pretty and it seems to work well enough. The software manager's interface is a little busy for my taste, but otherwise I have no complaints. I think most people will take to it and those who don't can fall back on the older package manager. Overall, Kubuntu 13.10 feels like a stable, mature release that has some nice new features, but nothing ground shaking that would put off existing users. I'm actually sorry this version is not a long-term support release and will only receive security updates for nine months, the short support cycle seems to be the only weak point in an otherwise excellent desktop operating system.
|Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith)
Debian debates new init system, openSUSE shows off GNOME features, FreeBSD switches to new package manager
Members of the Debian project, one of the Linux community's largest and longest-living distributions, had a lot to talk about this past week. The first topic of interest is the idea that Debian could benefit from having a new init system. To date Debian has used a more traditional init system to get the operating system from a cold start to a running environment and some people feel Debian would benefit from using a more modern init system such as Upstart or systemd. The suggestion kicked off a heated debate on the Debian mailing lists as people chimed in with their opinions for or against each option. As a result, Debian's tech committee as been asked to vote on the decision as to which direction (if any) Debian will take in the future. While the decision is unlikely to affect desktop users directly, it will impact system administrators and package maintainers who may soon face a new approach to managing services.
Debian developers and fans will also be happy to know the venerable distribution is becoming increasingly popular, especially on web servers. A recent W3Techs report shows that Debian has over 30% of the Linux web server market with Ubuntu and CentOS close behind with a little over 25% of the market each. The Debian GNU/Linux distribution and its child, Ubuntu, both appear to becoming more popular in the web server space at the expense of traditional enterprise-oriented distributions such as Red Hat and CentOS.
In unrelated news, the Debian project is now officially hosting on-line copies of the distribution's manual pages. These pages are available for installed applications, but sometimes it is useful to be able to read a page of documentation without installing the corresponding package. This new addition to the Debian website will allow users to browse and read documentation for software without the requirement of installing anything.
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The next release of openSUSE, version 13.1, is scheduled to arrive in two weeks and the project is happily putting new features on display. This week the openSUSE News Team put the distribution's GNOME desktop deployment on display. The distribution's upcoming release is expected to ship with GNOME 3.10 which features a unified system menu, easier application menu navigation and a new Classic mode. The Classic mode replaces GNOME 3's old Fallback mode and is intended for users who miss the look and feel of the GNOME 2 interface. The openSUSE distribution typically stays on the cutting edge and this release will give many users a chance to see the latest work available from the GNOME project.
* * * * *
The FreeBSD project has been experimenting with a new binary package manager, PKG-NG, for several months now and it looks as though the modern package manager is finally ready for production. A mailing list post by Bryan Drewery states
"We are pleased to announce that official binary packages are now available for pkg, the next generation package management tool for FreeBSD. Pkg allows you to either use ports with portmaster/portupgrade or to
have binary remote packages without ports." The post goes on to say the old package tools, such as pkg_install, will be depreciated in approximately six months. Drewery also went on to provide details on how to begin using PKG-NG and, if necessary, how to switch from using the old Ports method of package management to the new style. The new PKG-NG utility is expected to simplify package management by unifying the installation, removal and upgrade procedures in one user-friendly utility.
|Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith)
ARM devices, tablets and Linux distributions
Over the past few weeks I have received a number of questions regarding running GNU/Linux distributions on tablets, tablets that will work with open source desktop environments and ARM devices which are compatible with GNU/Linux distributions. While these are technically separate topics, there is enough overlap I would like to address these questions all together.
First up, if you are interested in tinkering with an inexpensive ARM device, such as a Raspberry Pi, Beagleboard, Pandaboard or other low-end hobbyist device then you may wish to read this document maintained by the Fedora Project. The project has in-depth release notes, detailed documentation and an up-to-date list of supported ARM-based hardware. This is a good place to get started if you are looking to experiment with ARM technology or if you plan to set up a low-energy home server or low-spec desktop system. The Fedora distribution is very open and comes with a lot of great documentation which makes it a good starting point for people who like to tinker. Especially people who want to play with low-end ARM hardware.
Now if you want to run a Linux-based operating system on your tablet or smart phone then you may be interested in the mobile edition of Ubuntu. Right now only a few new Nexus devices are officially supported. The Ubuntu wiki has some great documentation on how to install the open source operating system to a mobile device. This will appeal to people who have higher-end hardware and want to run a Linux-based distribution that is geared specifically to their mobile device.
Another way to go would be to look at devices which support running KDE's Active interface. The KDE website has some documentation which lists supported devices and, in some cases, instructions are supplied for installing KDE's interface on specific devices. The documentation is a bit sparse in places, but it will give potential users an idea of which devices will work with KDE Active and, in some cases, which devices are compatible with the openSUSE distribution.
Next, for people who have purchased (or are planning to purchase) a Raspberry Pi computer, you will probably wish to visit the Raspbian website. The Raspbian distribution is a rebuild of Debian GNU/Linux with packages compiled to work with the Raspberry Pi's hardware. Installation instructions are available on the website and are fairly straight forward.
Finally, a word on ARM devices. General purpose laptop and desktop computers, even modern ones which ship with Secure Boot, are generally designed in a way that makes it easy to install an alternative operating system, such as a Linux distribution. Small consumer devices, such as tablets and mobile phones, are not always designed with such flexibility in mind. If you plan to install an ARM port of a Linux distribution on your device, do some research ahead of time to find a device that supports alternative operating systems. Otherwise you run the risk of purchasing a device that is not supported or, even worse, designed to prevent the installation of alternative software.
|Released Last Week
Clonezilla Live 2.2.0-16
Steven Shiau has released a new stable build of Clonezilla Live, a Debian-based distribution with software for disk cloning and backup tasks: "This release of Clonezilla live (2.2.0-16) includes major enhancements and bug fixes: the underlying GNU/Linux operating system has been upgraded, this release is based on the Debian 'Sid' repository as of 2013-11-29; the Linux kernel has been updated to 3.11.6; the drbl package has been updated to 2.6.8 and Clonezilla to 3.8.2; the partclone-utils package has been updated to 0.2.1; the tcplay package has been updated to 1.1; this release was built with live-build 3, so the live-boot has been updated to 3.0.1 and live-config to 3.0.23-1; the UEFI secure boot is now supported in the amd64 Ubuntu-based Clonezilla live, it's not supported in the Debian-based one because Debian does not release any signed EFI pre-bootloader 'shim'; this release uses gfxmode=auto and removes load_video and faekbios in grub.cfg...." Here is the full release announcement.
Tails 0.21, a Debian-based distribution designed for anonymous Internet browsing via the integrated Tor technology, is out and ready for download: "Tails, The Amnesic Incognito Live System, version 0.21, is out. All users must upgrade as soon as possible: this release fixes numerous security issues. Notable user-visible changes include: don't grant access to the Tor control port for the desktop user; don't allow the desktop user to directly change persistence settings; install Iceweasel 17.0.10esr with Torbrowser patches; patch Torbutton to make window resizing closer to what the design says; add a persistence preset for printing settings; support running Tails off more types of SD cards; add a KeePassX launcher to the top panel; improve the bug reporting workflow; prefer stronger ciphers when encrypting data with GnuPG; exclude the version string in GnuPG's ASCII armored output....." See the release announcement and changelog for a full list of changes and known issues.
Tails 0.21 - the default desktop environment
(full image size: 46kB, screen resolution 1280x960 pixels)
Salix 14.0.1 "Ratpoison"
George Vlahavas has announced the release of Salix OS 14.0.1 "Ratpoison" edition, a lightweight Slackware-based distribution with a rather unusual and geeky window manager that bears the name of this Salix flavour: "Salix Ratpoison 14.0.1 is ready. This is a very special release for us, as Ratpoison makes for an experience that is completely different. The aim of the Ratpoison edition is to create a system that is fully usable with the keyboard only, no mouse required. Ratpoison is a window manager for X 'with no fat library dependencies, no fancy graphics, no window decorations, and no rodent dependence'. Ratpoison uses a workflow that is similar to that of GNU screen, which is very popular in the terminal world. All interaction with the window manager is done through keystrokes. The application selection for the Ratpoison edition is rather special. The main reasoning behind selecting any of the default applications included in this release is their ability to be used completely with the keyboard." Read the rest of the release announcement for more information.
Superb Mini Server 2.0
Superb Mini Server (SMS), a Slackware-based distribution designed for servers, has been updated to version 2.0.6: "Superb Mini Server version 2.0.6 released (Linux kernel 3.4.67). This is a maintenance release focusing on server package updates, such as Postfix 2.10.2, Samba 4.1.0, OpenLDAP 2.4.37, Dovecot 2.2.6, and adding a little VPN touch up to the distribution. For this release we thought best to stay with the 3.4.67 LTS kernel. The latest LTS kernel 3.10.17 is available in the SMS repository if anyone wants to upgrade. The 64-bit live CD ships with the 3.10.17 kernel though. New packages in this release are: OpenConnect client for Cisco's AnyConnect SSL VPN, openl2tp - an L2TP client/server, PPTP point-to-point tunneling protocol client, PPTP point-to-point tunneling protocol server, and strongSwan - an open source IPsec-based VPN solution. As you may notice, we didn't follow Slackware's 'Current' tree and we stay with glibc 2.15 and GCC 4.7.2." Here is the full release announcement.
Nick Holland has announced the release of OpenBSD 5.4, a free, multi-platform UNIX-like operating system with focus on portability, standardisation, correctness, proactive security and integrated cryptography: "We are pleased to announce the official release of OpenBSD 5.4. This is our 34th release on CD-ROM (and 35th via FTP). We remain proud of OpenBSD's record of more than ten years with only two remote holes in the default install. As in our previous releases, 5.4 provides significant improvements, including new features, in nearly all areas of the system: new platform for systems based on the Cavium Octeon MIPS-compatible processors, supported machines include Portwell CAM-0100, Ubiquiti Networks EdgeRouter LITE; new platform for OMAP3/4 and AM335x systems using an ARM Cortex-A8 or Cortex-A9 CPU...." Visit the OpenBSD 5.4 release page to read the full list of changes and improvements.
Thomas Genty has announced the release of GeeXboX 3.1, a free Linux media centre distribution for embedded devices and desktop computers: "A new GeeXboX release has arrived. GeeXboX 3.1 is an upgrade that integrates XBMC 12.2 'Frodo'. Like the previous version, you can use GeeXboX to watch and record live TV. In addition to our usual x86 ISOs, this release is also available for several embedded platforms, with working full HD video and graphics acceleration for most of them. Supported platforms are: i386; x86_64, Cubox v1, v2 and Pro; Raspberry Pi; Utilite from Compulab; Cubieboard 1. New features: XBMC Media Center 12.2 frontend; PVR support for DVB Digital TV to watch and record live TV with vdr and tvheadend; support for full HD videos on Utilite, and Cubox RaspberryPi. System: Linux Kernel 3.10.9 (for x86 devices); systemd 206; BusyBox 1.21.1; Connman Network Manager 1.9; X.Org Server 1.14.1; Mesa 9.2.2; OPKG Package Manager 0.18...." Continue to the release announcement for further details and a screenshot.
OS4 OpenLinux 14.1
Roberto Dohnert has announced the release of OS4 OpenLinux 14.1, an Ubuntu-based desktop Linux distribution with a customised Xfce 4.11 as the default desktop: "Today we are pleased to announce the new releases of OS4 OpenLinux 14.1 and PC/OS Enterprise Linux 4.1.6. With these new releases we bring a few extra new features to OS4 OpenLinux. With 14.1 we have brought new enhancements to the kernel and we have updated the package lineup. We also go back to the lighter radiance themes as the default and we have the ambiance and greybird themes for those that like the darker themes. Features: Xfce 4.11; Audacious for audio and VLC for video; Pinta 1.4 for image manipulation; GNOME Office as the default office suite; Chromium as the default browser; Thunderbird as the default mail client; Dates as the default calendar application; Contact as the system address book; Arandr for multi-monitor support; FreeDOOM...." Here is the full release announcement.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
|Upcoming Releases and Announcements
Summary of expected upcoming releases
New distributions added to waiting list|
- Wax OS. Wax OS is a 64-bit only distribution which offers a friendly desktop operating system.
* * * * *
DistroWatch database summary
* * * * *
This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 11 November 2013. To contact the authors please send email to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, suggestions and corrections: news, donations, distribution submissions, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (feedback and suggestions: podcast edition)
If you've enjoyed this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly, please consider sending us a tip.
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|Linux Foundation Training
|Reader Comments • Jump to last comment
1 • Kubuntu seems to be doing KDE better than openSUSE or Mageia (by Eric Yeoh on 2013-11-04 09:44:00 GMT from Malaysia) |
Kubuntu - once considered an unwanted step child of the xBuntu universe seems to be doing good enough on the usability side. I am a great fan of openSUSE and SUSE technologies but even I cannot but enamoured with Kubuntu's KDE smoothness. I wish it all the best.
2 • Kubuntu (by kc1di on 2013-11-04 10:14:37 GMT from United States)
Nice review jesse,
One thing though you said:
"but I was warned that one of the repositories the manager had connected to had a bad security certificate."
This is do I believe to the fact that kubuntu /ubuntu and derivatives all come with Medibuntu repository enabled and medibuntu has been discontinued and is no longer available. thus should be disabled in /etc/apt/soruces.list
for those wanting to know how to do that go here http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2469
3 • tails (by stack on 2013-11-04 10:34:51 GMT from Serbia)
Tails use Iceweasel 17.x, and there is info about Firefox 17 NSA-planted exploit. Are we safe with Iceweasel 17 or I am wrong here?
4 • Debian (by César on 2013-11-04 10:42:11 GMT from Chile)
Saludos desde Santiago de Chile.
Buenas noticias sobre Debian (la distro que uso), veremos que sucede en la próxima Debian Stable, de aquí a quizás cuántos años mas. No sé si se ganará algo o no, porque la verdad, es que la distro como está ahora funciona muy bien, no necesitándose cambios "on the edge".
Cambiando de tema, en vista de que no hay manera de que me guste Gnome 3, instalé Cinnamon 1.8 en Debian Wheezy con los drivers propietarios AMD funcionando 100%, pero tomando en cuenta de que Compiz no corre en esta versión (extraño Gnome 2.**, mate no cuenta con tantos efectos), me di cuenta que existen varios plugins que le aportan funcionalidades que asemejan a esta última (por ejemplo, las ventanas gelatinosas), funciona bastante fluido y estable, veremos si mas adelante actualizan el repositorio a la versión 2.0.
Ah...los repos de Medibuntu ya no funcionan, hay que desactivarlos si es que están presentes en algún sources.list.
5 • @3 - Exploitable FF ESR versions (by Uncle Slacky on 2013-11-04 11:43:59 GMT from France)
As I understand it, it was the FF 10 ESR that was affected, and the v17 ESR is not vulnerable to the same exploit.
6 • Kubuntu (by rich52 on 2013-11-04 11:51:17 GMT from United States)
Running on my machine now. Works well. Can't say I like Discover Package manager though. It is slow. I prefer using synaptic and Muon. They are much faster for downloading and installing software. Discover Package manager is good only in that it shows one what is available. Packape updater is a bit buggy also. I usual just run Muon and look for updates there. Overall though I am satisfied with what I use and see. Keep up the good work :)
7 • Saucy Unity (by silent on 2013-11-04 12:31:11 GMT from France)
My experience with Saucy Unity was smooth with Intel G41 chipset both with compiz and XMir (except that sometimes the autohidden sidebar has only shown its shadow when I moved the mouse to the left edge). XMir can be installed in no time, so it is actually available for 13.10. My most interesting technological experience was however running Compiz on top of XMir (unity-system-compositor) in a cairo-dock session. I was really impressed by the flexibility, configurability, smoothness, beauty and elegance (that is on my hardware) of the desktop, far superior either to Unity or Gnome, despite some occasional font rendering problems. Unfortunately compiz and cairo-dock are not supported as well by other distributions as by Ubuntu.
8 • Kubuntu (by Rajesh Ganesan on 2013-11-04 12:55:44 GMT from India)
I agree totally with the review of Kubuntu. It gives the most pleasant experience possible from a distribution. Just as Eric Yeoh says, I too feel Kubuntu is getting better than openSUSE. Let's appreciate their efforts and wish them all luck!
9 • a few things that are a bit off (by greg on 2013-11-04 13:07:02 GMT from Slovenia)
i know this is more comment section but a few things written here caught my attention. first one is in Kubuntu review:
"At first the system felt a little sluggish, but I found that once desktop effects, which are enabled by default, had been turned off the system was quick to respond." NOw presuming the sytsem used is "dual-core 2.8GHz CPU, 6GB of RAM, Radeon video card, Realtek network card" that's a bit strange. with defulat effects on E450 (1.6Ghz dual core-these are like Intel's Atoms) and 1,5GB ram (+512MB reserved for GPU) the 13.10 is noticably faster than 13.04. default effects on i do not have a sluggish system bt a very responsive one. similary strange to me is that this system would have Unity lagging. :-O
second thing is tablets/phones etc. a number of them lately have Intel AtomZ CPU inside (Asus fonepad for example). but what i am not sure is if this is x86 architecture and also if one can install other OS on them. battery life on these might be a bit shorter than ARM but they are not too bad overall.
10 • Wax OS set off WOT red warning... (by ChiJoan on 2013-11-04 13:12:14 GMT from United States)
Perhaps it's a false positive like PcLinuxOS newsletter ran into with a certain Windows anti-virus program, but the website may need some looking into, this was the first time WOT gave me a warning on a link from Distrowatch, too.
For those that don't know WOT, it is an add-on for many web browsers and different operating systems to help keep us safer from dangerous websites that may have malware or worse.
Thanks for another great newsletter and start to my week...
Joan in Reno
11 • Unity without 3D Accelaration (by Dale Visser on 2013-11-04 13:32:21 GMT from United States)
I would note that the ability to run Unity in a non-3D accelerated mode has been disabled since the Ubuntu 12.10 release. This should not have been a shock to the reviewer at this point. 12.04 is still there and supported for those who actually like Unity, but don't have the graphics hardware to rum the 3D effects. I am grateful to the reviewer, though, for pointing out that KDE has a fallback mode. I wasn't aware of that, and I'm more likely to try Kubuntu in the future, now.
12 • Arch (by schultzter on 2013-11-04 13:41:29 GMT from Canada)
It really annoys me that Arch only shows up once a month - if that - in the Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases section.
It's because of Arch that I discovered systemd. When Slackware had their little squabble on the mailing-list I was curious about the fuss, so I tried Arch and never looked back.
So hopefully the debate over at Debian is civilized and constructive. Systemd is not for everyone, but it is good for some people.
13 • ubuntu Gnome (by Muhammad Azharussin Qadri on 2013-11-04 13:51:34 GMT from India)
I try both unity and gnome version of Ubuntu. In my system (RAM 4GB i3-3210 3.20GHz INTEL MOTHER BOARD-D61WW ) GNOME version is amazingly fast and responsive, I never seen very stable and fast gnome in Ubuntu. Unity is also fast compare to the last version but its hanging I found solution of it but over all very good.
14 • Ubuntu, Firefox (by Jon Wright on 2013-11-04 13:57:59 GMT from Malaysia)
> "I opted to try the 32-bit build"
> "Kubuntu - once considered an unwanted step child of the xBuntu universe seems to be doing good enough on the usability side"
Dedoimedo just trashed the latest release.
> "Tails use Iceweasel 17.x, and there is info about Firefox 17 NSA-planted exploit."
I think what you wanted to say was 'FBI-exploited vulnerability' - if you're referrring to the busting of the dodgy hidden-service in Ireland, I think. The vulnerability existed in version 17.x ESR, as used in the Windows TOR bundle, until it was patched (before afore-mentioned dodgy site operator got busted, I think). Was Iceweasel ever vulnerable?
15 • Debian (by Jon Wright on 2013-11-04 14:05:58 GMT from Malaysia)
> "Debian developers and fans will also be happy to know the venerable distribution is becoming increasingly popular, especially on web servers."
I signed up for a Debian VPS a few hours ago. It's like being reacquainted with an old buddy.
16 • KUBUNTU 13.10 - I was pleasantly surprised (by Janusz on 2013-11-04 14:13:05 GMT from Poland)
After a year of distrohopping, changing from Mepis to Sabayon to Wheezy to Kororaa to KWheezy to SolydK, back to Mint KDE, then to PCLinuxOS, I made a last, desperate attempt to find a no-problem KDE distro. As left seemingly with no other reasonable choice, I installed Kubuntu. A big surprise - no nonsense and quick, smooth installation, instant wi-fi connection, all hardware (I have almost same specs Thinkpad as Jesse's) drivers and function keys working out of the box? Who (that is a non-programmer) could ask for anything more? Kubuntu provides a solid (if not the best) kernel and system base (ia.hours of engineering work that went into power optimization - power supply stays cool even at 100% CPU use), changing the appearance themes, icons etc. the way I like it does not wreck the system, you can really run it without being an expert programmer and be happy with a nice looking, quick and responsive distro. I can honestly recommend it to all those, who are looking for a no-nonsense and dependable KDE distro.
As an off-topic remark, I do not apply any updates. I found that when I update, sooner or later my system becomes unusable. IMHO, it is not possible to check all updates for compatibility conflict - let alone be sure if I really need them. I found that all "automatic" updaters suggest to install all actual updates for everything that is in a distro's repositories, without actually checking before what is actually installed on MY system. Yes, I did go to Synaptic, selected the installed/upgradeable packages, but everytime, if I could boot up or login back to the system I thought myself very lucky (always for a short time afterwards anyway). Until there is an independent API layer in KDE, free from the ever (by ever I mean every week) changing depensency structure, using Linux on the desktop would either remain a nightmare or at best, an intensive care unit episode. I spoke to a security guru, in whose opinion Linux is safer by design, but both Linux and Windows are a no-brainer for an expert attacker.
Cheers to Jesse, Kubuntu Team and all Linux fans!
17 • @9 (by jaws222 on 2013-11-04 14:19:53 GMT from United States)
He was talking about the desktop effects with Kubuntu in the Virtualbox. Compiz never really worked under Virtualbox either.
18 • Security, #16 (by Jon Wright on 2013-11-04 14:26:49 GMT from Malaysia)
> "but both Linux and Windows are a no-brainer for an expert attacker"
The 'expert-attacker' would laugh at the 'no-brainer' evaluation surely. In the case of attacking a Linux user I think we need to remember that the availability of so-called 'expert' hackers diminishes substantially. You need to be quite a high-value target to justify that an 'expert' with those abilities.
19 • The Wax OS web site is down (by RJA on 2013-11-04 14:55:24 GMT from United States)
Firefox hangs and fails with a server-not-found error.
20 • Seriously (by Distrowatch is Dead on 2013-11-04 14:56:02 GMT from Germany)
Do tell why anyone would attempt to write a review about an environment that is widely known and documented to have issues with the hardware utilized.
This type of "review" is driving this once great site faster and faster to obscurity.
21 • @16 (by greg on 2013-11-04 14:56:37 GMT from Slovenia)
you can use security updates only.
no it doesn't update what you do not have installed. why would it?
22 • @21 - just updating (by Janusz on 2013-11-04 15:38:46 GMT from Poland)
"no it doesn't update what you do not have installed. why would it?"
Yes, please tell me why.
And check for yourself - tick the "Update all" option in the updater. Verify what packages are going to be installed. I found that if, within the update all option, I chose to update a package that was not installed on my system, the updater would install that package for me and then update it. Very logical, but hardly makes sense. I have no skills and time to go through a list of 234 updates to check them out first. I know it takes time we usually don't have to add functionality. But simply checking the installed package base first would reduce the average update crash probability from, say 87% to 35%? Just kidding. I hope to live long enough to see the day of Linux on the desktop (it is already a reality on mine).Have a nice day and let's be optimistic about the future.
23 • Ubuntu and Kubuntu's "sluggishness" (by eco2geek on 2013-11-04 15:39:38 GMT from United States)
Some questions for Jesse: What kind of video card do you have? Does it still have a proprietary driver available for it? (IIRC, ATI drops support for its older video cards.)
After you installed Ubuntu, did you try installing the proprietary driver for your Radeon video card? How about Kubuntu?
Did you try switching from using the GLX backend to "KRender" in Kubuntu to provide desktop effects?
Having an older NVIDIA card myself, I understand *buntu's sluggishness, since both Unity and KDE default to using GLX for effects. On the other hand, the problem can usually be fixed simply by installing the proprietary video drivers. (Or, in KDE's case, switching from GLX to KRender.) It is a bit odd to read reviews in which use of the distro in question is limited by the author's hardware, and it seems to be happening quite a lot lately.
24 • @ Jesse: Ubuntu - Kubuntu running slow on WHAT SPECIFIC HARDWARE (by Rev_Don on 2013-11-04 15:51:58 GMT from United States)
Once again Jessie has problems running a distro for a review, and once again he absolutely REFUSES to disclose SPECIFICALLY what hardware he is using providing only general information as in: "dual-core 2.8GHz CPU, 6GB of RAM, Radeon video card, Realtek network card".
1) What SPECIFIC motherboard are you using, or at least what SPECIFIC chipset?
2) What SPECIFIC Radeon video card or chipset?
3) What SPECIFIC dual core cpu?
"dual-core 2.8GHz CPU, 6GB of RAM, Radeon video card, Realtek network card" is way too general to be useful. There are a lot of old, outdated, and unsupported hardware that would fit these specifications that would not be able to run a currant distro. By absolutely refusing to disclose the EXACT hardware specs you essentially render your reviews invalid as there is no verifiable point of reference to base any conclusions on.
I state that you refuse to post specific/exact specs because I (and others) have requested them on more than one occasion when you run into issues during a review. This tells us that you are being overly obstinate in not revealing them. 99% of reviewers would provide this information, so why don't you? Do you have something to hide? It can't be that it would be that much work as you would only need to type that information in ONE TIME, then do a copy and paste into subsequent reviews, or place that information into a boiler plate review document LIKE EVERY OTHER LEGITIMATE REVIEWER DOES.
I fully expect to have this comment deleted as has happened more than once in the past to comments you don't like. Rest assured that I (and I hope others) will continue to hound you for SPECIFIC hardware specs for ALL reviews from now on. It's the only way to do a review with any integrity, a practice that I would assume that you would want to aspire to.
I'll close by including an example of what a PROPER System Spec should look like.
Intel E8300 dual core 2.83GHz cpu, Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P P45 chipset motherboard, Radeon HD5670 video card, 6gigs (2x2, 2x1) PC6400 G.Skill ram, Realtek 8111C LAN, RTL8191SU WiFi
Sure that takes up a bit more space in the review, but at least it legitimizes the review and provides a FULL and BALANCED review. It's you choice to do the RIGHT thing, or continue to do the WRONG thing in this regard. I challenge you to do the RIGHT thing.
25 • Video performance (by Jesse on 2013-11-04 15:57:35 GMT from Canada)
>> "What kind of video card do you have?"
I have a Radeon HD 6410D.
>> "Does it still have a proprietary driver available for it?"
It does. There are closed-source drivers available if you are willing to install them. there is a risk involved though. About half the driver updates for this card completely bork video output, other times the driver works. I wouldn't recommend going with the closed source driver if you want stability across upgrades. which brings me to....
>> "After you installed Ubuntu, did you try installing the proprietary driver for your Radeon video card? How about Kubuntu?"
No, if a desktop environment can't get by with decent performance with open source drivers then there is something wrong with the desktop. I should not have to install proprietary blobs just to navigate a simple, 2-D interface.
>> "Did you try switching from using the GLX backend to "KRender" in Kubuntu to provide desktop effects? "
Yes, there is no noticable different between the backends.
>> "It is a bit odd to read reviews in which use of the distro in question is limited by the author's hardware"
Why is that odd? All software is limited by the hardware on which it runs. Most distributions run beautifully on this equipment, a few do not. Any distribution, run on enough computers, will fail to work on a few of them. That is just a reality of working in a software/hardware diverse world.
26 • @25 - response to Jesse (by eco2geek on 2013-11-04 16:30:19 GMT from United States)
> I should not have to install proprietary blobs just to navigate a
> simple, 2-D interface.
> Why is that odd? All software is limited by the hardware on
> which it runs.
Your points are well-taken. (It's not really "2-D" vs. "3-D", it's more "depends on compositing" vs. "doesn't depend on compositing". At least with KDE you can turn the effects, and thus the need for compositing, off. Although you miss out all those nifty, uh, 3-D effects.)
Since Unity is itself a sort of plugin for Compiz, it requires video compositing in order to run properly. If your video card can't do compositing with open-source drivers well enough, it leaves you unable to properly review the distro. And since you're in the business of reviewing distros, that's a problem.
One thing *buntu does well is make proprietary driver installation easy.
(Not that I want to get into a big argument with you about it. Nor do I mean any disrespect.)
27 • FreeBSD and PKG-NG (by Blue Knight on 2013-11-04 16:50:45 GMT from France)
Err… well… a little too late.
“Note that pkg.FreeBSD.org does not have a browsable web page on it and does not have a DNS A record. This is intended as it is an SRV host. pkg(8) knows how to properly use it.” (from http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2013-October/087397.html)
28 • @26 (by jaws222 on 2013-11-04 16:59:29 GMT from United States)
I used to be a big fan of Compiz and also like Kwin for those "nifty" effects, but now I find myself moving more towards XFCE & Openbox. LXDE is also a good one as is Enlightenment. Those 4 DE's run seamlessly in Virtualbox where I test all of my distros to see what's worthy of partition space. :)
29 • @26 Video Performance (by Rev_Don on 2013-11-04 17:02:05 GMT from United States)
QUOTE by eco2geek:
"Since Unity is itself a sort of plugin for Compiz, it requires video compositing in order to run properly. If your video card can't do compositing with open-source drivers well enough, it leaves you unable to properly review the distro. And since you're in the business of reviewing distros, that's a problem."
And this just illustrates why having a COMPLETE, EXACT, and SPECIFIC list of System Specs in a review is so important. Without that information there is no way to interpret the results. A notation that the hardware the review is run on does not support compositing (or anything else) with the open source drivers and requires proprietary drivers is an absolute must in cases like this. Just one more example of why Distro Watch Reviews are to be taken with a grain of salt and not to be relied upon to tell the truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth.
30 • @29 (by jaws222 on 2013-11-04 17:06:55 GMT from United States)
"Just one more example of why Distro Watch Reviews are to be taken with a grain of salt and not to be relied upon to tell the truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth."
I pretty much take them all with a grain of salt. I've never installed a Linux OS based on any review, but rather use Virtualbox to test it out myself. I'll admit you never get the full experience in VBox, but I can usually determine enough that let's me know if I want to install it for "real"
31 • @30 Grain of Salt (by Rev_Don on 2013-11-04 17:33:09 GMT from United States)
It's not that difficult to test out a distro in VB, but for some people (myself included) with slower internet connections and/or bandwidth caps, downloading the ISO files to test can be quite taxing. That's were LEGITIMATE reviews come in handy as it allows one to narrow down the list of which ones to test. Including the COMPLETE and EXACT System Specs makes that task considerably easier, while REFUSING to do so makes it impossible. Why should people reading reviews have to waste their time and bandwidth downloading and testing a bunch of different distros because the reviewer is too lazy or obstinate to include proper system specs to legitimize their review.
32 • @31 (by jaws222 on 2013-11-04 17:49:41 GMT from United States)
Sorry, I didn't take that into consideration.
33 • DW Reviews (by Pierre on 2013-11-04 17:59:27 GMT from Germany)
"Just one more example of why Distro Watch Reviews are to be taken with a grain of salt and not to be relied upon to tell the truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth."
I don't think that Jesse or anyone else ever claimed that these reviews were the "WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth".
On the contrary Jesse always points out that the experience with the reviewed distros are very subjective ones and experiences made by others may or definitely will differ.
Although I would appreciate more precise system specs as well, I don't see any reason for the offensive way in which you express your demands.
It's just a review and you are free to interpret it the way you like and find it valuable or not. No need to be rude at all.
34 • Kubuntu 13.10 and more (by Pierre on 2013-11-04 18:20:23 GMT from Germany)
I did not try it, but read what I already experienced year ago: "I found that when I update, sooner or later my system becomes unusable." (by Janusz, #16)
I never figured out what's the reason for this, but Ubuntu has always been a little unstable and sluggish on all my (more than 6 different) systems since 2008. And I tried all releases between 2008 and 2012.
At work we are currently using Xubuntu 12.04 LTS. It's the most buggy-ish Linux based system which claims to be enterprise class I saw in years. And all we mainly do is using Firefox, Netbeans and Skype (from time to time for customer support and such).
I really don't want to pick at Ubuntu, but this honestly is my Ubuntu experience of the last 4 to 5 years.
In contrast openSUSE runs rock solid on many of my systems since release 12.1 as does Debian (even unstable/sid - siduction) and some others like SalixOS or Arch.
So even if Kubuntu 13.10 turns out to be a quite good release I refuse to grapple with it because of my bad experiences. And only 9 month of security updates does the rest.
What I am looking forward to test drive is FreeBSD 10.
I know that it lacks a few nice things Linux as in store for the user but the switch to pkgng was long overdue because it was already a nice package manager on FreeBSD 9.
It's a pity it did not run flawless on my laptop where I test drove FreeBSD 9 due to the lack of support for ATi Radeon graphics card drivers.
Hopefully this becomes fixed with FreeBSD 10 and open source drivers for Radeon graphics.
Greetings from Germany.
35 • Disappointed (by Distrowatchisdead on 2013-11-04 18:39:03 GMT from Germany)
"No, if a desktop environment can't get by with decent performance with open source drivers then there is something wrong with the desktop. I should not have to install proprietary blobs just to navigate a simple, 2-D interface."
Oh Distrowatch, how you have fallen.
36 • RE 31 (by dbrion on 2013-11-04 19:19:48 GMT from France)
" Why should people reading reviews have to waste their time and bandwidth downloading and testing a bunch of different distros because the reviewer is too lazy or obstinate to include proper system specs to legitimize their review."
Well, suppose the reviewer has always the same hardware : it would be rather boring to read, each and every time, the specifications. That would add little meaning ,if any, when package managers are shown and criticized, where some applications ergonomy is detailed -oh, this point might even interest users!- and to know there are new applications...
And people (at least, not every one) can be interested in reviews, where the reviewer subjectively explains what he did not like (any way, there are thousands of PC configurations : should one read thousands of reviews before finding one that matches one's configuration).
And not every wastes his precious time and his expensive BW downloading bunches of isos : from the shipping list, one can tell 90% are not interesting for a given individual.... distroshopping leads to very superficial views of distros but one is perfectly free to lose one's precious time downloading and trying to install...
37 • @29 @31 - Hyperbole doesn't help (by eco2geek on 2013-11-04 19:54:19 GMT from United States)
> Just one more example of why Distro Watch Reviews are to be taken with a grain
> of salt and not to be relied upon to tell the truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing
> but the truth.
> the reviewer is too lazy or obstinate
Sigh. This kind of hyperbole and ad hominem doesn't help. All reviews are subjective to one degree or another. And Jesse is neither lazy nor obstinate.
If what you want is to get Jesse to post his system's specs in his reviews, name-calling is probably not going to get you very far, "Rev".
38 • To all the review haters. (by Keith on 2013-11-04 20:03:36 GMT from United States)
The Dr. Jekyll reply: Take into consideration that distros are built to accommodate an unbelievable number of hardware configurations all over the world. You can't possibly expect the reviewer to review the same distro on a variety of different system builds. Each distro has a release announcement and typically describe the environment that will best sustain that distro.
The Mr. Hyde reply: If you don't like what the reviewer reports here, start your own website. Review and provide all the pertinent information that you think is important TO EVERY COMPUTER USER ON THE PLANET.
This is a great site for sharing information. I can't believe some of the attacks I've seen here today.
39 • Please! (by Ulf on 2013-11-04 20:18:50 GMT from Netherlands)
I agree whit some comments that distrowatch is falling very very fast below .....? Wich level?
To say that the KDE environment runs smoothly and thereby, it must be beter than distroX is really beyond everything.
Also the mention of the update problems really
And this is beter than opensuse based on what???
No specs are given, gl or no gl?, oke but where are you using gl for?
Enabeling fancy stuff on your screen Realley?
Comon, you cant take yourself seriouselly anymore.
Opensuse works out of the box, doesnt need comercial drivers to get everything, yes everything working, but ofcourse the ...tyest ubuntu spin is better, ever worked with YAST?
Iàm not a lover of opensuse but really? this is besed upon farytalles.
Its whats lying underneath that counts not the ungoing stuppid discussions about some environment / server to display some candy worth nothing on youre screen.
Iàm getting irritatted by this kind of talk.
No disrespect but this weeks review could be written by a little man whit glasses out of redmond.
It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
40 • WOT warning and Site being down (by Joseph Townsend on 2013-11-04 20:47:02 GMT from United States)
Hello users, sorry for the inconveniences that have been brought upon you; for the WOT it will be investigated within the next few minutes. Users that experienced the site being down it is true second crash in a week...the first crash was due to having a basic server and getting to much traffic we remedied that by purchasing a larger server that can handle the spikes (mainly thanks to distrowatch.com) however the second crash was a DNS issue from domain host uni.me all their sites went down.
As a permanent fix I will be taking the site down personally 1 more time today (11-04-13) to put in a 301 redirect as we went ahead and acquired http://waxos.org as added precautions with the heavier traffic when donations start coming before we further development we will be adding ssl to ensure user security as the accounts are building up.
41 • Cries for system specs (by Barnabyh on 2013-11-04 22:23:11 GMT from )
In Jessie's defence I have to say that he posted his specs here time and time again for a long time with every review to the point where it became rather boring and something the regular reader would just skip.
Maybe go back a few weeks and check his specs there if that's so important.
42 • ARM boards (by Paraquat on 2013-11-04 22:44:32 GMT from Taiwan)
Jessie, thanks for mentioning the ARM boards. You are correct that people must do a bit of research when buying one if they want to be assured that they can install their favorite OS on it.
Might be worth mentioning here that Distrowatch reviewed what I think is the best of these boards, the Odroid:
Since that review was written, the board has been upgraded considerably and now outperforms low-end Intel-based notebooks. The software side has been upgraded too, so now you no longer are restricted to just Ubuntu and Android. See: hardkernel.com for more on the hardware, and http://www.odroid.in/ for the software.
43 • @16 Re: Kubuntu Updates (by Linadian on 2013-11-04 23:31:43 GMT from Canada)
I stick with their LTS release(s), the updates for those are rock solid, been using 12.04.x for several years now, not a problem. Might stick with 12 if the 13 LTS has problems, I'm all about stability now, cutting edge means nothing to me.
44 • Site Down for last time (by Joseph Townsend on 2013-11-05 01:47:21 GMT from United States)
I know people are already going to be coming here to report site is down just confirming this was the on purpose one that I was talking about earlier for the migration. Please be patient and it will be back live in approx. 10 min. with only 1-2 comments missing. In the mean time follow us on twitter @stubbornpc thanks for the 600+ downloads today it really shows this communities support!
45 • @16 Re: Kubuntu Updates (by Linux411 on 2013-11-05 02:34:49 GMT from United States)
The update manager does not update anything that is not installed under normal circumstances. However, building programs for a distro, sometimes can end up including more dependencies with newer versions. Given that reason, if the package manager is going to update, say kopete, and the new version has a new feature like VoiP or a new chat protocol, it will now include a dependency for the new feature. Leading to the need to install something that was not originally on your system.
46 • @41 System Specs (by Rev_Don on 2013-11-05 04:59:28 GMT from United States)
You are wrong. I've gone back several months and have yet to see any sort of SPECIFIC System Specs. All he ever mentions are the overly and uninformative generic "dual-core 2.8GHz CPU, 6GB of RAM, Radeon video card, Realtek network card" which essentially tells us nothing. I've read every review for the last couple of years and I don't remember him ever being more specific than that. He's a bit more specific about his laptop, but still not nearly as specific as he should be, or as specific as 99.9% of the other reviewers on 99.9% of other sites. Without that information, there is no perspective from which to judge any of the conclusions or problems, and let's be honest here, it's rare when he doesn't run into some problem in his reviews.
Think of it this way. You wouldn't write a review of a pickup truck's towing capacity without revealing what engine or transmission the truck had as they affect the results significantly. That would be the same as saying an operating system is sluggish, especially with video effects turned on but not stating what cpu or video card you are using.
Sorry, but I must stand by my previous statements.
47 • Accuracy (by Jon Wright on 2013-11-05 05:43:28 GMT from Malaysia)
> "or as specific as 99.9% of the other reviewers on 99.9% of other sites"
If you're following 1000 reviewers or 1000 sites then that could account for your jaded outlook. There's very little worth reading - including, the last couple of years, here on DW. But let's just get on with life - it's easy enough taking a distro for a spin in a VM, easy enough to give it a try on bare metal.
48 • Ubuntu 14.04 not 13.10 anymore (by Chanath on 2013-11-05 11:54:57 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Ubuntu 13.10 was used until the 1st cdimage of Ubuntu 14.04 was released. Even though 14.04 is still new, it is quite stable, and there is now a Ubuntu Browser released too, which is faster than Firefox or Chromium.
When Ubuntu gives the "testing" distro 14.04 out, it'd sort of foolish not use it. It is new and developing. When 13.10 was out as a "testing" distro, I used it and never had a problem. 14.04 wouldn't give problems too. I have Gnome Shell installed, so both developments would be tested.
49 • Fedora & Debian Web Servers (by Sayth on 2013-11-05 11:59:22 GMT from Australia)
DW "The Debian GNU/Linux distribution and its child, Ubuntu, both appear to becoming more popular in the web server space at the expense of traditional enterprise-oriented distributions such as Red Hat and CentOS."
It would appear to me that this occurs because both ubuntu and debian offer stable long term release for desktop users as well. Allowing users to use the same system on server and desktop.
That is why the same debate in the Fedora camp keeps reappearing and reported on her in DW.
I think the short term release cycle of Fedora and its lack of stability for your wife/mother-in-law/nan stop geek users effectively sharing it like you could with ubuntu/debian.
Fedora currently only has 1 spin off distribution Korora, if there was a more stable long term option the ecosystem may grow with spin off distributions and increase the amount of contributors and developers.
But I guess fedora knows this and thus the continuing debate.
50 • Re: #25 Radeon 6410D (by silent on 2013-11-05 13:46:42 GMT from France)
According to the man pages and other Ubuntu documentation the Radeon 6410D is fully supported by the free radeon driver including 3D acceleration (although the proprietary driver is faster), and should work without creating xorg.conf. So, the graphics problems both with Unity (compiz) and KDE (kwin compositing) appears to be a yet unreported bug, or probably your card was not autodetected properly.
51 • Complainers and children (by LinuxMan on 2013-11-05 13:58:54 GMT from United States)
Wasn't going to comment this week but because of all the complainers and whiners that seem to have nothing else to do I thought I would give them something to comment on. For one thing, the good Rev needs to stop being so lazy. The statement that 99.99 percent of all reviewers give detailed specs on their systems is just good old BS. You're a distro hopper just wanting to rely on reviews to have something to do. Maybe you should stop playing games and fine something better to do with your time. Ulf, come on man. You expect people to understand that gibberish you typed? It's not worth the effort to try figure out what you are complaining about. Distrowatchisdead, wow what a clever name. I too would be embarrassed to let anyone know who I was. Well that seems to cover the most ridiculous non helpful comments this week but I'm sure there are more that I've missed. I'm sure that this comment is just as helpful but it's like if you were in a food store, and a child was crying, and it's parents would do nothing to stop it, you would finally have to say something. If you children don't like the information presented here why bother coming here and why waste everyone's time with your irrelevant, illogical comments? Have fun kids, the store's all yours.
52 • @ #49 • Fedora & Debian Web Servers (by Sayth) (by Pierre on 2013-11-05 14:13:45 GMT from Germany)
"DW: »The Debian GNU/Linux distribution and its child, Ubuntu, both appear to becoming more popular in the web server space at the expense of traditional enterprise-oriented distributions such as Red Hat and CentOS.«
It would appear to me that this occurs because both ubuntu and debian offer stable long term release for desktop users as well. Allowing users to use the same system on server and desktop." (by Sayth / DW)
First of all CentOS is a 100% Red Hat compatible and free rebranded community release of Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL), thus delivers a clean RHEL experiences but comes without any expenses.
Additionally CentOS and Red Hat have support for version 6 until 2017! This exceeds by far the LTS periods of Debian or Ubuntu.
Not to forget that Stella (and CentOS with a few additional repositories and configurations as well) perfectly demonstrates that CentOS and therefore RHEL both can perfectly be used as desktop operating systems.
Saying this I come to the conclusion that the arguments which were brought forward cannot be the real reasons. And we should not forget that it's difficult to really evaluate the market share of Linux operation systems. So it's hard to tell if the mentioned statistics of Debian's and Ubuntu's market share are true.
We should not forget either that Fedora has quite the same release cycle as Ubuntu has. So I wouldn't that call a problem or a reason for lesser spin offs. It's - at least in my opinion - due to the nature of Fedora being more a geek distro, so most of them have fun to tinker around and configure it on their own to fit their liking while most Ubuntu users are happy to find everything to be taken care of for them.
Moreover Fedora and openSUSE are a lot more universal than Ubuntu. They both are already designed to hopefully fit to any possible use case or at least, being prepared for being easily configured and made to fit.
What so ever, I have admit that Debian and Ubuntu definitely are more popular than CentOS, Red Hat or Stella as a CentOS based desktop spin.
And Fedora like openSUSE - where there is an ongoing discussion on changing the release process and cycle in general - both have to incorporate the needs and wishes of their enterprise class counterparts RHEL and SLE.
53 • Ubuntu 13.10 (by don on 2013-11-05 14:28:52 GMT from United States)
Downloaded 13.10 last week and was disappointed that it would not support Skype which I use often in my business. I find it is difficult to revert back to 12.04. I have noticed that it locks up a bit when using some programs. At least more so than my earlier Ubuntu oss.
54 • Re: # 53 (by silent on 2013-11-05 15:25:34 GMT from France)
Ubuntu supports Skype, please follow the installation guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Skype
55 • Debian and XFCE (by jaws222 on 2013-11-05 16:28:43 GMT from United States)
Smartest move ever
56 • AMD Legacy driver for old ATI cards (by fernbap on 2013-11-05 17:47:29 GMT from Portugal)
When AMD dropped support for older ATI cards, it maintained a legacy fglrx driver. A bit hard to find in their website, but all you have to do is download it and run it in order to install the fglrx driver.
The name of the package is amd-driver-installer-catalyst-13.1-legacy-linux-x86.x86_64.run
57 • re: Debian and XFCE (by Peter Besenbruch on 2013-11-05 18:18:58 GMT from United States)
Interesting. Thanks for the information. I am currently running XFCE 4.08 and 4.10 on Debian Wheezy. The two versions aren't different enough to matter, and both are refreshingly light weight and stable.
Debian has considered switching to XFCE before, back in August 2012. That change didn't last very long, and Wheezy ended up defaulting to Gnome.
XFCE development appears to move at its own pace, i.e. slowly. Part of the problem involves preparing for a transition to GTK3. Version 4.12, due out last February, will not use GTK3 as its default. What it WILL feature is some code clean-up to make the transition easier.
People use XFCE for a number of reasons. I use it, in part, because of its slow, incremental style of development. Having been burned by radical changes in both KDE and Gnome, the slow pace of XFCE development is like a breath of fresh air.
Version 4.8 is the first version I really liked. It handled task bar placement on the side of the screen better, and offered better compositing.
When Jessie goes stable, I wonder if LXDE/RazorQT will be included? Currently, neither is powerful enough for my tastes (the XFCE launchers are hard to beat), but the combined resources of each project may produce something interesting.
58 • Debian and Xfce (by Barnabyh on 2013-11-05 19:11:17 GMT from United Kingdom)
Didn't we have this before and they switched back for the Wheezy release? Feels like DejaVu.
While as an Xfce and Openbox guy I would support the move, GNOME Shell is getting better and 3.10 is a far cry from 3.0. But most importantly, as somebody still working with disabled users, GNOME still has one up on Accessibilty vs. all other environments. That's probably the biggest selling point from my perspective.
Another point is that users of Openbox and other minimal WM's should feel quite comfortable with the fact that it's (apparently) entirely possible to navigate GNOME by keyboard, but then you would probably stay with Openbox, Fluxbox, Awesome etc.
59 • Whisker Menu (by octathlon on 2013-11-05 19:32:11 GMT from United States)
I nominate the Whisker Menu project (gottcode.org) for the next Distrowatch donation. It is a valuable addition to the XFCE DE.
60 • @ 50 • Re: #25 Radeon 6410D (by silent on 2013-11-05 13:46:42 GMT from France) (by Chris M on 2013-11-05 19:49:33 GMT from United States)
For what it's worth, the radeon driver did not work well here with a freshly installed Xubuntu 13.10.
I don't believe that that's the distro's fault, but I guess it could be. This was a fresh install that defaulted to the radeon driver. The radeon graphics were washed out, and the Turks 6758 card fan was whining.
Go 4 posts from the top. I had to use the proprietary driver.
"probably your card was not autodetected properly" ...
Maybe it is the disrto's fault. But something's wrong.
61 • @55 Debian (by mandog on 2013-11-05 23:02:56 GMT from Peru)
Did you read all of the article its only till August or so while the freeze is on.
62 • @51 Re: Complainers and Children (by Rev_Don on 2013-11-06 03:58:26 GMT from United States)
First of all, I am NOT a distro hopper. I run Debian Stable as my default Linux, with CentOS as my fallback. I also utilize LinuxLite for older systems and for use as an XP replacement for others. I do like to keep up with the more common distros as I provide support locally for a considerable amount of less than knowledgeable computer user, many of whom can barely turn a computer on, let alone install or configure an OS. When they get into trouble, or need advice on what Linux distro to try I want to be able to give them up to date information. I don't have the time to test each and every distro (or even all of the major ones) and certainly don't have a fast enough internet connection to download more than a few so I rely on legitimate reviews to weed out the problem ones so I can concentrate on the most likely candidates. When a reviewer doesn't bother to do their job and include proper system specs it is pretty much a waste of time, mine, theirs, and anyone reading it. You don't have to agree with me on this, but I have every right to expect better than what we have been getting from DW this past year.
As for my slow internet connection, that is beyond my control. I don't live in a big city, or even a city at all. I live out in the country in Wisconsin's North Woods where the only fast internet has such a small bandwidth cap to make it worthless for downloading multi gigabyte ISO images (5 to 10m gigs a month TOTAL up and down doesn't go very far). Unless you want to download all of the ISO's, burn them to CD/DVD's, then mail them to me then don't give me any crap about how simple it is to test a distro in a VM or bare metal as that is simply not the case for me, and I imagine quite a few others here.
Maybe I am overstating the 99.9%, but of all of the sites and reviews of any computer hardware/software that I regularly read 100% of them do include detailed hardware (and software specs where applicable) in every review. I gave it the benefit of the doubt by lowering that to 99.9% which might be a bit optimistic, but 90% would be a safe number, or maybe I just frequent better review sites than you do.
63 • @52 Fedora Ubuntu and web servers. (by Sayth on 2013-11-06 05:13:08 GMT from Australia)
I agree that Fedora is the geek distro. I think sharing is that something we all like to do and there a many non geeks in my life that I cannot give Fedora because it might just break. What have I given them usually kubuntu because it's stable and a fairly familiar interface.
To me Fedora is like Debian unstable and Centos like Debian stable. So where is the middle ground.
In so many ways Fedora/opensuse is better than Ubuntu and yet they are sticking to geek and not allowing users in. Or at least providing a good playground like "testing" to allow geeks to craft user distro's .
64 • Typo in 43 (by Linadian on 2013-11-06 08:39:20 GMT from Canada)
Meant the 14.x LTS Kubuntu release, there is no '13'.
65 • Re: #50 (by silent on 2013-11-06 09:11:55 GMT from France)
Regarding the card fan: "With the radeon driver, power saving is disabled by default and has to be enabled manually if desired." "Controlling the fan speed directly is not possible (and would be very dangerous), but it can be lowered by setting lower power profile" https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ATI#Powersaving http://xorg.freedesktop.org/wiki/RadeonFeature/#index3h2
66 • HPD (by zykoda on 2013-11-06 17:12:14 GMT from United Kingdom)
Debian and aptosid showing sudden average HPD fluctuations!!!
67 • 62 • @51 Re: Complainers and Children (by mandog on 2013-11-06 18:36:05 GMT from Peru)
I totally agree with your statement the poster was out of order, its for distrowatch to monitor readers comments not individuals.
68 • spare the drama (by Carlos on 2013-11-06 19:22:28 GMT from Mexico)
"mail them to me then don't give me any crap "
" I have every right to expect better than what we have been getting from DW this past year."
speaking in your own terms:
Sorry, but you are entitled to nothing. You don't have _any_ right to expect content suited to your needs, unless you have directly paid for it. And no, browsing a site is not paying a dime.
If DW serves your purposes, fine. If not, you are free to read any of your 99% remaining fine and objective distro reviewers (er, adjusted to 90%).
Go cry elsewere.
69 • Spare the drama (by Rev_Don on 2013-11-06 21:11:13 GMT from United States)
Isn't it lovely how you edited one of my comments to suit your own needs. That's one of the problems with this, and numerous other sites.
DistroWatch, like many other sites are supported financially by ads. Anytime I avail myself of any of those ads I have financially supported the site and thus have a right to expect the site provide good, reliable, and honest content. Since I have done so on more than one occasion I qualify for that right.
But this is getting us no where. You have your opinion and I have mine and neither of us are going to change the others opinions so to heck with it.
70 • Complainers and children (by Stop It on 2013-11-07 02:06:44 GMT from United States)
In this one DistroWatch we see so much of what is wrong with the community. First rather than just criticizing about the specs not being included, why not ask and state your specific reason you need the specs, as you did in a later post? I am also from Northern Wisconsin, and understand your problems. Second to all those that criticize the post, why not ask why it is a problem for the person. Being courteous should never be a problem. I love Linux, but cringe at times about how people post. From trying to show off that you know more than the writer of the article to pounding anyone that disagrees with you, I just see way to much bad behavior. Try writing your own review, then reread it. Then post as a guess, as many blogs will let you. See how your best is received. It is not easy. That said, I really appreciate the DistroWatch reviews, for a host of reasons. Please keep up the good work.
71 • Reviews, hardware, details (by Fossilizing Dinosaur on 2013-11-07 07:09:27 GMT from United States)
Instead of repeating hardware details in every review, why not simply nick-name the system, and hyperlink to a separate specifications page?
72 • Probability of exact specs matching (by dbrion on 2013-11-07 07:30:49 GMT from France)
Well, there are thousands of HW configurations and there is a tiny probability of finding exact match with one's specs details. To be serious, people should read thousands of reviews befor wasting their precious time and their precious BW trying to download an *.iso (but this can be bought or one can ask a friend, if any).
OTOH, some people are interested in what is inside a given distribution (they often, somehow, manage to install : except for Fedora -may be their boaconaconda is a joke, and it should therefore be kept for historical reasons, as a rare, funny species - , installation procedures are getting easier and easier ): is the package manager (and its utilities) pleasant to use? Review which neglect HW details (as redundant, as they were already described) but focus on nice -or not- applications specific to a distribution are always pleasant to read.
73 • There is nothing to complain about... (by Chanath on 2013-11-07 13:39:17 GMT from Sri Lanka)
I am also not a distro hopper, but I download any distro I fancy to try it. But I use Ubuntu anyway. I am not very worried about Unity, and sometimes I even like it. Whether it is Unity or Gnome 3, both of them stay out of the way, and let me use the application I want. I need the computer to work/play/entertain, and it is the application that is doing what I want. But, of course, the OS underneath is very valuable, with its responsiveness, snappiness, stability etc.
With Ubuntu, I can go to the testing distro, right now it is 14.04, and that's not alpha or beta, just the daily cdimage. It can break, but it didn't with 13.04, 13.10 and I don't expect it do give me any headaches. I am writing form the update adn dist-upgraded 14.04. If there would be something seriously new at the time of the 14.04 release, I'd keep the dist-upgraded distro. Of course, I'd have a partition ready for the next testing cdimage of 14.10.
As everyone has their own favourite distro, you can use the testing distro of your favourite. I once played with Mageia's testing, but it gave so much trouble, I had to drop it. Calculate would always be new, as it is Gentoo. Well, there is nothing to complain about, just use the distro you like.
74 • GhostBSD (by Dave Postles on 2013-11-07 20:28:56 GMT from United Kingdom)
It seems that the OpenBox version is a liveDVD only with no means of installation. I tried sysinstall as root from the CLI, but that failed because it wasn't ecognized as FreeBSD. The XFCE version seems to be installing ok (so far).
75 • 65 • Re: #50 (by silent on 2013-11-06 09:11:55 GMT from France) (by Chris M on 2013-11-07 21:14:33 GMT from United States)
@65: Thanks for that. The graphics were still very washed out, and I can't remember the whining being an issue, but maybe it's always been that way, and it's nice to know you can address the fan speed.
76 • Slackware 14.1 (by jadecat09 on 2013-11-07 23:51:08 GMT from United Kingdom)
Yay! Here at last.
The GNU/Linux distribution to have.
Enjoy your life
77 • slackware (by tuxtest on 2013-11-08 00:35:06 GMT from Canada)
I Agree with you ! Alway a good new at each out of slackware version...
big big thank for this great system at Slackware team and Pat
78 • Slackware 14.1 (by Barnabyh on 2013-11-08 20:18:38 GMT from United States)
Hurrah, Slackware 14.1 is out. Oldies but Goldies, after much experimentation over the years I will stick with Slack and Debian any day. Between them depends on the scenario.
79 • Ubuntu (by Chantal on 2013-11-09 02:45:36 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Debian has .deb packages, but not compatible with Ubuntu's .deb packages. One can easily instal Ubuntu's .deb packages in Debian, while the opposite doesn't work. Debian has a lot o developers, but connected loosely, whereas Ubuntu's developers, in house or not are backed by a commercial company, whose CEO is passionate on Linux and Ubuntu.
Whatever, anyone says, without the coming of Ubuntu, Linux distorts would've never come this limelight. Ubuntu would live, even if Debian dies. The Debian vanilla distro is so old for today's standards. I don't really see any reason to use Debian stable or testing, while there is an Ubuntu testing. Ubuntu is much more up to date, than Debian and most of the other distros.
For example Slackware had come out today, but it is already old, even before it was released. And, it depends on the whims and health of the sole owner-developer. Mandriva sort of died. Mageia is struggling with it's no. 4. There was a big hullabaloo, when it came, reaching the top in Distrowatch charts, but now?
Arch and Gentoo is there, sort of always new, but how many users, use them. If not for Sabayon, and maybe Calculate, Gentoo would stay in the fringe. Same goes with Arch. It appears to be a rolling distro, but it breaks more often, when you try to update.
I had been using Ubuntu testing, as soon as the daily cdimage is released for few years now. Never had a breakage. I'm using the testing 14.04 now and it's quite interesting to use. No breakage and don't expect to get one. I'm using it for my day to day work.
Well, nothing is permanent in this world. But, the way it goes, Ubuntu would live, even if Debian dies. Your thinking may differ.
80 • @79 (by dentalfoss on 2013-11-09 06:00:01 GMT from United States)
Man I got your point. Ubuntu is the future OS, Ubuntu is Windows replacement, Ubuntu is the only working linux in this world. Arch suck, Debian suck, other linux distro suck. So everyone not using Ubuntu or using an old hardware, had 2 option. 1. Stick with ubuntu derivates like puppy or bodhi, but no you shouldn't use old kernel. If your system can't handle kernel above 3.10 your system suck, buy a new one.
2. Find other distribution, live with it and die with it. Coz you're suck.
3. Or move to BSD base, since it understand you live in the past with your old hardware. Even if you live in 2032.
81 • ubuntu/kubuntu (by walter on 2013-11-09 15:55:33 GMT from Canada)
I tried to install kubuntu on a HTPC, but ran into the network issue Jessie resolved. I thought it crashed so gave up on the install and tried ubuntu. Ubuntu immediately gave system error messages, and gave them every few minutes. I tried to install netflix, but couldn't get it to work. I abandoned ubuntu and installed Mint 15, where netflix installed and ran without problems. I wasn't terribly impressed with ubuntu. Even more so after I read that Canonical lawyers ordered a reviewer to stop mentioning Ubuntu in the review.
As for Jessie's reviews, I think they are fair. His experience are usually similar to mine, so if he has issues with a distro, I'd consider his opinion if I'm interested in trying a distro. Although stability is my main criteria these days: maybe I should try centos again, and figure out how to install programs that aren't in their repos.
82 • The Point Is Stable (by Bill on 2013-11-09 16:29:39 GMT from United States)
I've been running Point Linux 64 which is based on Debian 7 Wheezy, for over a week now and if stable is what you want, stable is what it offers.
I've been runnung Terminal, Radiotray, Firefox, Thunderbird, LibreOffice Writer, Cairo Dock, Conky, Compiz, Emerald Theme Maker, Ace Freecell, Pente, Pysol, Firestarter, Checkgmail, BitDefender Anti Virus, Audacity, Audacious, Virtualbox, Grub Customizer, Gparted, and MtPaint. And under WINE; Goldwave, Getright, and Winmx.
I have not been able to get it to crash. It is so stable that I just set it and forget it. It's so solid I actually got bored and installed Vne Linux and CentOS on other partitions just for a challenge.
Point Linux is a very good distro for a chnge - try it.
83 • @ 80 (by Chanath on 2013-11-09 18:34:18 GMT from Sri Lanka)
You don't have to get so worked up, just because I like Ubuntu. I also like Windows 8RT, which most of the Windows guys don't like.
The problem with our Linux distros is that everyone is so different from the other, and also the beauty of Linux distros. You use what you want, no one is going to pressure you. Since, 4.10, Ubuntu didn't trouble me, so why not like it? Debian is damn too old. Would you like to use a modern mobile or the " half-brick?"
I don't have to move to the BSD base, as I use an iPad too, and that's BSD. You think it doesn't have bugs? It does and plenty. Android is very good, but has its little bugs too. You can use Blackberry Playbook, with Balckberry OS--not a bad one, but eats battery very fast.
Well, Dentalfloss, what is the future? Linux, BSD, iOS, Android, Blackberry OS, or Windows? I don't know, but I like Linux, and Ubuntu. So?
84 • @83 (by mandog on 2013-11-09 19:48:11 GMT from Peru)
" I use an iPad too, and that's BSD" No its based on unix changed by apple and closed source. And remember a lot of Linux users don't use or like ubuntu.
The world does not revolve around only you!
85 • OpenMandriva (by Dave Postles on 2013-11-09 20:17:32 GMT from United Kingdom)
@79 Whilst I began Linux with OpenSuSE, Mandriva was my favourite - one of the first too to offer a usb version. I dabbled with Ubuntu for a while, but I'm not interested in a distro which collaborates with Amazon, a shitty organization IMHO. Actually, I quite like the RC of OpenMandriva and I shall give it a good run.
Debian: there are plenty of excellent distros based on Debian and Debian is extremely customisable. TAILS is based on Debian, for example.
86 • @83 (by linux user on 2013-11-09 21:20:48 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the fanboi point of view....... always good for a laugh.
87 • @ 84, 86 Ubuntu fanbois? (by Chanath on 2013-11-10 04:25:50 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Very funny! Watching the DWW rating list, Ubuntu and its clones/derivatives take most of the points. Mint for example has only one name here, while it has Cinnamon, KDE, XFCE variants, where as teh Ubuntu family has 7 direct members, and there are 15 other distros in that 100, So, the users and the developers don't like Ubuntu?
This is not the question of who likes or dislikes Ubuntu, but who actually use it, and its base. Now, this Ubuntu base is not Debian base. You cannot use the Debian repos at all. Ubuntu is a separate base by itself, as in Linux freedom, using other operating systems.
Well, if iOS is not using BSD, why not read something about it? Here in Linux too we have Unix, and with Linus's name attached to it. Even, Windows use BSD, as the BSD license is easier on the developers, open source or not.
Why should I, the user have to play around, in other words waste time, with 90s geeky world of installing Linux distros by trying to install Arch or Gentoo? Not that I can't install them. Arch takes less than an hour, while Gentoo would take the whole day. So, I use Calculate and Sabayon--I like them both and have them in my laptop. Calculate is very nice on the eye, and very good.
The thing is, I can manipulate the .deb files, while not at all good with Gentoo files. I can make my own Zorin, Pinguy, and even Solus OS with Ubuntu, and that's why I like Ubuntu; its pretty easy on a semi-geek. Anyway, on my machine, I have to decide whether to use Calculate or Ubuntu in a given day.
Mind you, Calculate will be doing very well in Russia, whereas Ubuntu would be doing very well in other parts of the world and in Russia. Most people living in the US don't know what happens in the rest of the world, and I don't know about how is in Peru. But, I know that the only two Linux distros well known to the general population, if at all they have heard about Linux, are Android and Ubunru, whereas the majority doesn't know that Android is Linux--Google is very cunning to keep it that way.
Anyway guys, without whining "I don't like Ubuntu", how about testing the 14.04? Say, tell us in January 2014, if you don't like it and why, okay? Let's see what brings tomorrow. Good day!
88 • Re: Ubuntu/ Arch (by chefken on 2013-11-10 08:59:43 GMT from Netherlands)
All this complain about Arch breaking after update..
When whas the last time you boys and girls tried Arch?
I've been using Arch for 1.5 years now and it never ever broke on me!
Pacman is so freakin fast when installling/updating compared to apt-get!
Trust me, give archbang a try, you won't be disappointed!
It's a fast and easy way to install Arch and from there on you can install KDE, XFCE or gnome if you want.
89 • @88 Arcgbang Chefken (by Chanath on 2013-11-10 16:55:48 GMT from Sri Lanka)
You are absolutely right about Archbang. It is a very good distro. Even Bridge Linux is based on Archbang, even though the developers of Bridge Linus won't say. But, depending on the type of the laptop you use, Archbang tends to freeze sometimes. Bridge Linux has the same problem. the original Archbang developer Will is no more with Archbang, a pity.
Number of Comments: 89
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
|• Issue 735 (2017-10-23): ArchLabs Minimo, building software with Ravenports, WPA security patch, Parabola creates OpenRC spin|
|• Issue 734 (2017-10-16): Star 1.0.1, running the Linux-libre kernel, Ubuntu MATE experiments with snaps, Debian releases new install media, Purism reaches funding goal|
|• Issue 733 (2017-10-09): KaOS 2017.09, 32-bit prematurely obsoleted, Qubes security features, IPFire updates Apache|
|• Issue 732 (2017-10-02): ClonOS, reducing Snap package size, Ubuntu dropping 32-bit Desktop, partitioning disks for ZFS|
|• Issue 731 (2017-09-25): BackSlash Linux Olaf, W3C adding DRM to web standards, Wayland support arrives in Mir, Debian experimenting with AppArmor|
|• Issue 730 (2017-09-18): Mageia 6, running a completely free OS, HAMMER2 file system in DragonFly BSD's installer, Manjaro to ship pre-installed on laptops|
|• Issue 729 (2017-09-11): Parabola GNU/Linux-libre, running Plex Media Server on a Raspberry Pi, Tails feature roadmap, a cross-platform ports build system|
|• Issue 728 (2017-09-04): Nitrux 1.0.2, SUSE creates new community repository, remote desktop tools for GNOME on Wayland, using Void source packages|
|• Issue 727 (2017-08-28): Cucumber Linux 1.0, using Flatpak vs Snap, GNOME previews Settings panel, SUSE reaffirms commitment to Btrfs|
|• Issue 726 (2017-08-21): Redcore Linux 1706, Solus adds Snap support, KaOS getting hardened kernel, rolling releases and BSD|
|• Issue 725 (2017-08-14): openSUSE 42.3, Debian considers Flatpak for backports, changes coming to Ubuntu 17.10, the state of gaming on Linux|
|• Issue 724 (2017-08-07): SwagArch 2017.06, Myths about Unity, Mir and Ubuntu Touch, Manjaro OpenRC becomes its own distro, Debian debates future of live ISOs|
|• Issue 723 (2017-07-31): UBOS 11, transferring packages between systems, Ubuntu MATE's HUD, GNUstep releases first update in seven years|
|• Issue 722 (2017-07-24): Calculate Linux 17.6, logging sudo usage, Remix OS discontinued, interview with Chris Lamb, Debian 9.1 released|
|• Issue 721 (2017-07-17): Fedora 26, finding source based distributions, installing DragonFly BSD using Orca, Yunit packages ported to Ubuntu 16.04|
|• Issue 720 (2017-07-10): Peppermint OS 8, gathering system information with osquery, new features coming to openSUSE, Tails fixes networking bug|
|• Issue 719 (2017-07-03): Manjaro 17.0.2, tracking ISO files, Ubuntu MATE unveils new features, Qubes tests Admin API, Fedora's Atomic Host gets new life cycle|
|• Issue 718 (2017-06-26): Debian 9, support for older hardware, Debian updates live media, Ubuntu's new networking tool, openSUSE gains MP3 support|
|• Issue 717 (2017-06-19): SharkLinux, combining commands in the shell, Debian 9 flavours released, OpenBSD improving kernel security, UBports releases first OTA update|
|• Issue 716 (2017-06-12): Slackel 7.0, Ubuntu working with GNOME on HiDPI, openSUSE 42.3 using rolling development model, exploring kernel blobs|
|• Issue 715 (2017-06-05): Devuan 1.0.0, answering questions on systemd, Linux Mint plans 18.2 beta, Yunit/Unity 8 ported to Debian|
|• Issue 714 (2017-05-29): Void, enabling Wake-on-LAN, Solus packages KDE, Debian 9 release date, Ubuntu automated bug reports|
|• Issue 713 (2017-05-22): ROSA Fresh R9, Fedora's new networking features, FreeBSD's Quarterly Report, UBports opens app store, Parsix to shut down, SELinux overview|
|• Issue 712 (2017-05-15): NixOS 17.03, Alpha Litebook running elementary OS, Canonical considers going public, Solus improves Bluetooth support|
|• Issue 711 (2017-05-08): 4MLinux 21.0, checking file system fragmentation, new Mint and Haiku features, pfSense roadmap, OpenBSD offers first syspatch updates|
|• Issue 710 (2017-05-01): TrueOS 2017-02-22, Debian ported to RISC-V, Halium to unify mobile GNU/Linux, Anbox runs Android apps on GNU/Linux, using ZFS on the root file system|
|• Issue 709 (2017-04-24): Ubuntu 17.04, Korora testing new software manager, Ubuntu migrates to Wayland, running Nix package manager on alternative distributions|
|• Issue 708 (2017-04-17): Maui Linux 17.03, Snaps run on Fedora, Void adopts Flatpak, running Android apps on GNU/Linux, Debian elects Project Leader|
|• Issue 707 (2017-04-10): PCLinuxOS 2017.03, Canonical stops Unity development, OpenBSD on a Raspberry Pi, setting up a VPN for privacy|
|• Issue 706 (2017-04-03): Super Grub2 Disk, Snap packages of deepin applications, Subgraph OS routes network traffic for one application, announcements from Linux Mint|
|• Issue 705 (2017-03-27): Minimal Linux Live, sharing control of the operating system, new KaOS features, Uplos32 provides 32-bit fork of PCLinuxOS|
|• Issue 704 (2017-03-20): ToarusOS 1.0.4, Linux Mint's security record, Debian starts Project Leader election, Ubuntu 12.04 reaches end-of-life|
|• Issue 703 (2017-03-13): SolydXK 201701, CloudReady, Solus announces new features, KDE Connect sends text messages from desktop, openSUSE's YaST module for Let's Encrypt|
|• Issue 702 (2017-03-06): Fatdog64 Linux, elementary OS bundled with new netbook, Haiku announces new features, security and the size of a distro's development team|
|• Issue 701 (2017-02-27): OBRevenge 2017.02, Mageia 6 delays, NetBSD reproducible builds, questions about swap space, trying to steam video on a Raspberry Pi|
|• Issue 700 (2017-02-20): RaspBSD, Debian replaces Icedove with Thunderbird, Fedora's licensing guidlines, tips for switching shells, finding battery charge, getting IP address and killing processes|
|• Issue 699 (2017-02-13): Clear Linux, GhostBSD network utility ported to FreeBSD, Ubuntu coming to Fairphone, elementary OS crowd funding an app store|
|• Issue 698 (2017-02-06): Solus 2017.01.01, comparing containers with portable applicatins, Tails dropping 32-bit support, Debian Stretch enters freeze|
|• Issue 697 (2017-01-30): Subgraph OS 2016.12.30, running Ubuntu on an Android phone, Arch Linux phasing out 32-bit support, Linux Mint testing updated LMDE media|
|• Issue 696 (2017-01-23): GoboLinux 016, remotely running desktop applications, Solus adopting Flatpak, KDE neon using Calamares, TrueOS tests OpenRC|
|• Issue 695 (2017-01-16): Zorin OS 12, Peppermint team fixes installer bug, Debian refreshes Jessie media, Ubuntu improves low graphics mode, Exciting things coming in 2017|
|• Issue 694 (2017-01-09): MX Linux 16, Fedora considers systemd security features, DragonFly BSD to support massive swap space, Ubuntu Touch roadmap, Puppy's newsletter, sudo's password prompt|
|• Issue 693 (2017-01-02): Comparing small distros, fig language, video driver comparsion, Debian+PIXEL, Wayland on FreeBSD|
|• Issue 692 (2016-12-19): Bodhi Linux 4.0.0, Cappsule containers, Calculate's new Utilities package, Solus and Ubuntu MATE build new application menu|
|• Issue 691 (2016-12-12): SalentOS 1.0, openSUSE improves YaST, Fedora considers slower release cycle, KDE neon gets LTS branch|
|• Issue 690 (2016-12-05): Fedora 25, Ubuntu adopts rolling HWE kernel, running Android apps on GNU/Linux, Haiku working toward EFI support|
|• Issue 689 (2016-11-28): openSUSE 42.2, Fedora's upgrade path, plans for Korora 25, transitioning from PC-BSD to TrueOS, Webconverger's reproducible builds|
|• Issue 688 (2016-11-21): Endless OS 3.0.5, KDE neon fixes security hole, FreeBSD's Quarterly Status Report, Rolling release trial #2 concludes|
|• Issue 687 (2016-11-14): NAS4Free 10.3.0.3, Fedora gains MP3 playback, budgie-remix becomes Ubuntu Budgie, Ubuntu flavours compared, Rolling release trial #2|
|• Issue 686 (2016-11-07): FreeBSD 11.0, rolling release trial #2, Debian announces supported architectures, Simplicity switching to antiX base, farewell to Mythbuntu|
|• Issue 685 (2016-10-31): elementary OS 0.4, SUSE gains ARM support, Mint improves language support, Dirty COW explained, Rolling release trial #2|
|• Issue 684 (2016-10-24): Ubuntu 16.10, Linux popularity in different markets, Fedora runs on Raspberry Pi, Ubuntu features live kernel patching|
|• Full list of all issues|
|Random Distribution |
Nature's Linux was a Linux-based operating system developed by Japan's Nature's Linux Alliance. Its main focus was security.