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1 • SteamOS + Hardware = SteamMachine (by Derek on 2013-09-30 09:17:21 GMT from United States) |
It would be great to have a Steam Platform. Hardware that would work well with SteamOS.
2 • TC issues : is FF existing? Is arm support still existing? (by dbrion on 2013-09-30 09:34:15 GMT from France)
I saw two issues with Tinycore :
a) tinycore can support arm-based architectures (and might be useful, if it has gcc + Python+lua native). TC-4.7.7 claims they support it , according to http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=tinycore ; TC-5.0 does not; did they give up?
b) The very first screen shot in Jesse Smith review is :
"Tiny Core Linux 5.0 - running the Firefox module
(full image size: 129kB, screen resolution 1024x768 pixels)" (the third one is a scren shot of a graphical PM; FF is one of the avalaible packages)
I searched the TC distrowatch package list http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=tinycore
and did not find any FireFox:
firefox (24.0) -- -- -- -- --
3 • Congratulations SteamOS (by Daniel Mery on 2013-09-30 10:27:59 GMT from United States)
Welcome to the GNU/Linux world.....
Can' wait to install it.
4 • Re: #2 Is arm support still existing? (by Paraquat on 2013-09-30 10:41:02 GMT from Taiwan)
Hi dbrion, I don't actually know the answer to you question. But I'm wondering on which ARM board you'd be running TC? Raspberry Pi maybe? I have an ODROID-X board which is ARM-based, but haven't seen TC for it. Most people with this board are running Ubuntu, some have Debian or Fedora working with it.
Anyway, I'm an ARM enthusiast. These boards (with exception of the Raspberry Pi, so far) are getting faster and can match many Intel-based boards now.
5 • Clonezilla (by Sondar on 2013-09-30 11:04:31 GMT from United Kingdom)
Why create a file for transfer of whole system? Clonezilla allows direct disc-to-disc transfer, with size adjustment if appropriate, and includes GRUB, if required. Just don't forget to temporarily swap new drive to Slave mode and back again at completion. Simplest is to use two drive of identical size. Also the best method for back-up, as all drive are ultimately destined to fail ! Use the i-386 version of Clonezilla and one can copy discs with an ancient motherboard + PSU - case and peripherals not required.
6 • TinyCore (by bb on 2013-09-30 11:29:33 GMT from Germany)
a) did you look at http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/ ?
b) did you look at http://www.tinycorelinux.net/5.x/x86/tcz/ ?
"the lack of applications means we will probably end up downloading software at each terminal we visit"
No, because you can store the downloaded applications on a drive or a usb stick -- also a usb stick on which you have TC.
Yes, only if you did not download all the applications that you want/need to use.
It seems to me that you did not mention what is really new in TC regarding other linux distributions -- the ability to run packages either from ram memory or from a drive/usb stick, as well as the ability to mount and umount them on the fly. Another interesting feature is the ability to script the way you want your packages/modules to be installed at boot. Finally, you can port packages from other linux distributions to TC rather quickly - another interesting feature if you don't have enough with the pre-compiled modules in the TC repositories.
I have used TC during two years -- it does a lot more than what you say when you say that it enables you to "perform most common tasks", and it does it not only on old hardware, but also on new ones. You can run several daemons very quickly (if not out of the box with dropbear, I can not remember exactly), which makes TC the choice number 1 for versatil servers. You can spend time in order to taylor TC to your needs, and you will get something powerful and very useful -- like the puplets derivates of Puppy linux. TC is about customization above all, and if you take it with that in mind, then you don't need to look at bigger linux distributions.
So, why did I stop using TC? Because one of its main disadvantage in my view is the need to replace your packages/modules when you get a new kernel. You have to download your applications again, sometimes you have to correct your scripts, and you have to recompile your custom packages -- this is time consuming. If they would make something in order to make the upgrade process easier, I would use it again.
7 • Gnu Hurd (by Terence on 2013-09-30 12:06:33 GMT from Paraguay)
I know I am supposed to love GNU, Stallman, Free software and the like, but I don't know. I am trying to come up with a metaphor. Basically, because he offers a liberal license that appeals to developers and they use it, that somehow he should take (partial) credit for the ecosystem that Linux has helped drive. I mean the man knows how to talk, he has countless YouTube videos attesting to this. He always seems to have answers (more like complaints) for everybody else's problems but his own. 30 years on and his kernel still has not reach development state?
I am thinking of a man who has attended college, knows theory, but not practice. This is how I kind of view Stallman. It would be like needing to list your home's address on mail as Allstate/1018 Main St because the insurance provider wants credit. Or the man who said I feel like getting exercise, so I'll create a track to run on. The only problem is, he only got as far as mowing the area he wanted to pave before giving up and going back to his loveseat. Meanwhile others came along, completed the task, painted the lanes and maintain the whole ensemble. But now the lazy guy wants the completed field named after him.
Tell me how I should be viewing him if I am wrong.
8 • TinyCore & Non-PAE Systems? (by vt on 2013-09-30 12:22:16 GMT from United States)
For the *very* old laptops I occasionally rescue, does Tinycore offer a "retro" version, like Puppy, that runs on a non-PAE chip? I couldn't immediately find any info on that.
9 • Moving operating system to new computer (by Andrew Yeomans on 2013-09-30 12:43:12 GMT from United Kingdom)
If you are using Ubuntu, the Software Centre has a neat "Sync between computers..." option available from the toolbar. This makes it easy to make as close a clone as you wish. (Operating system only - still need to copy home directory.)
It doesn't try to do any automatic syncing of packages, instead lets you select a different system, and compares the package lists on the two machines. You then get presented with a list of packages to add to current system (that are only on the compared system), and a list of packages to remove (that are not on the compared system). Just select which you want and let it run.
This way makes it easy to create similar but different systems; e.g. you might like a whole lot of applications in common, but only require software build tools on your developer system.
10 • Moving operating system to new computer (by silvertip257 on 2013-09-30 12:43:25 GMT from United States)
rsync -Pave ssh user@host:/ /mnt/newdisk/ --exclude='/tmp/' --exclude='/mnt/' --exclude='/media/' <...other exclusions here...>
** Caution: ** Use --dry-run to see the changes before (possibly) polluting a directory structure with files in the wrong place. And you'll probably want the --delete option to clean out obsolete files if you're doing a migration over a few hours or days.
If I'm moving to a larger (or healthier) hard disk and there's no reason to do a fresh install, I'll simply set up my partitions, mount them in a rescue environment, and rsync [over ssh] the data (with certain portions excluded - see  for tips). After the rsync is done then comes adjusting configs (think fstab, grub, etc). From there, change root the cloned environment and re-roll your initial ramdisk.
And rsync still fits the bill even if you're doing a fresh install! You can still quite easily move over your /home/ dir and only those files.
For non-*nix systems ... well Clonezilla or a similar cloning solution is probably the only option. Good luck migrating a Windows system to other hardware (like you can with *nix systems) though.
11 • RE: 8 (by bb on 2013-09-30 12:47:56 GMT from Germany)
TC runs on non-PAE kernel
12 • RE 6 : Tiny core packages (by dbrion on 2013-09-30 13:22:12 GMT from France)
Thank you bb for the links:
I did not look at any of your links, but now I know:
a) the TC has a **alpha** version 5.0 for RPi (the x86 version is in a state where it can be considered as a release and http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=tinycore is right). A time lag might be explained by the fact that many RPi specific utilities such as setting a pin as an input or an output -with given logical values- do not exist on a PC).
b) that TC has a firefox module (at least for PCs : this I knew from Jesse Smith review ans screen shots, and it is inconsistent with the same http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=tinycore
I remain worried with internal consistency (same site says "A" and "not A"; this is not logical)...
13 • Moving operating system to new computer. . . (by Richard on 2013-09-30 13:32:50 GMT from United States)
I use 'Redo-backup' a downloadable Iso image file program that you burn to cd, then using a large thumbdrive . . .(I use a 32-gig one) I copy the whole drive along with all partitions to it. I believe the drive being copied to has to be the same size or larger but will not work on a smaller one. It has worked well for me. I've got about 30-gig on the thumbdrive and have restored it to my system several times after having installed several other distro's for evaluation then removing them.
14 • Tiny Core (by Schultzter on 2013-09-30 13:39:10 GMT from Canada)
I used Tiny Core for quite some time, on a laptop that served solely as a web browser. TC was perfect!!! I had a small CF card in-place of the HDD and it was the most convenient thing! I never really loaded any other apps than Firefox and Chrome, and they were stored on the HDD so it worked out perfectly. Took it on vacation once to upload photos from the camera to Picasa, which still went through the browser.
Finally the keyboard went on the laptop and I ended up with a tablet - which admittedly makes a much nicer couch-surfing computer than an old (and heavy) laptop.
15 • System replication (by Thomas on 2013-09-30 13:52:11 GMT from France)
There are 2 ways I replicate systems.
1st case : I need not to backup users documentation but only environment configuration. In this case I boot the old system with a live CD, mount its partitions the way they are when booted normally and make a tar.bz2 archive to a USB key large enough. Then I move the new system, boots it with the live CD, partition the disk and format the partitions, mounts them the way they should be and untar the USB key archive. Once fstab and grub configuration are updated, I install grub and reboots.
2nd case : I want to keep a copy of the documents -- this is a much larger copy than in the 1st case. I extract the HD from the new PC and connects it to the old one using a USB adapter, then boots the old PC with a live CD. I partition the new drive, formats the partitions and mount the partitions from all drives to separate hierarchies. Then I copy all the files from the old hierarchy to the new one. Once finished, I update fstab and grub.cfg, install grub on the new HD and I ready to go to the new PC.
In both cases, drivers (mostly graphics) are not a problem : everything can be done in failsafe mode.
16 • Tiny Core- which one did you review? (by octathlon on 2013-09-30 14:29:21 GMT from United States)
After telling us TC comes as Core, Standard, or Core Plus, you go on with the review but don't say which of the three you are reviewing. Core Plus (72MB) or Standard (15MB)? Considering that Puppy has many applications included in an image about the size of Core Plus, should I assume you were reviewing Standard since it had almost no applications?
17 • Moving an O/S to a new computer (by dragonmouth on 2013-09-30 14:32:13 GMT from United States)
I just physically move the HD from one PC to another. For me Linux has been flexible enough to adapt to any of the hardware I move it to. I have moved the same HD from a VIA-based system to an Intel one and then to an AMD one without hiccups. However, after a third move I would advise to do a fresh install because the drivers start stepping on each others toes.
18 • Moving operating system to new computer (by Bill on 2013-09-30 14:38:31 GMT from United States)
When I first found Linux I was using windows vista at the time and I used an expensive backup software called TrueImage. When I switched to Ubuntu 8.04 I searched for a similar program. Clonezilla did not work for me, I tried it but then at boot up home dir was not seen. I had already tried a fairly inexpensive backup for windows called Terabyte Image. They had a similar program called Terabyte Image for Linux for about $29 so I bought it and was very pleasantly surprised. Since Ubutu 8.04 I have used this program over and over to play with different OS on many partitions and I can say it is great! I can make an image to flash drive, external HD, or DVD's. Just for fun a made an image of an OS running in Virtualbox and then installed it on a regular partition and it worked fine. I currently have Ubuntu w/Unity, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, the recently released Kweezy, Debian, Fedora, Ubuntu w/Trinity, Ultimate Edition, Mint 13 w/Mate, Mint 9 Isadora, and Windows 7 on two internal HD's just to test things and experiment. Terabyte Image for Linux has never failed me. And no, I do not work for them, but the support is excellent as well. Here is the link:
19 • Moving OS to new computer (by JohnP on 2013-09-30 20:21:58 GMT from United States)
For my needs I have found CloneZilla fills the bill. Either making an image of a drive or doing a drive to drive copy. I put either the new or old drive on an SATA to USB cable and have at it.Fast and easy...
20 • TinyCore (by BruceW on 2013-09-30 21:12:48 GMT from United States)
My understanding is that at least part of the idea behind TinyCore is to be able to easily work in a fresh, non-"crufted" environment. I've read that TinyCore is not especially intended for low-resource systems or laptops, but instead was designed for reasonably current desktop workstations with (fast) wired networking, and for these the user need only reboot and reload modules to have a clean install - kind of like a live CD, but with much more flexibility over installed apps.
21 • TinyCore, pt 2 (by BruceW on 2013-09-30 21:16:47 GMT from United States)
My last comments were regarding the "standard" TinyCore (15MB) - I just looked at CorePlus and see that it includes a good bit of WiFi support built-in.
22 • Tiny core plus Raspberry? (by pete on 2013-09-30 21:25:01 GMT from New Zealand)
I would have thought that Tiny Core and the Raspberry Pi would be a match made in heaven.
Why haven't the two come together yet?
23 • (by Julian on 2013-10-01 04:08:54 GMT from United States)
Tinycore on Raspberry Pi has been done (at least, a quick search turned up a youtube video of someone running Tinycore on raspberry pi) ... however from what I could see searching google, there does not appear to be any Arm version of the Tinycore 5.x series yet.
24 • "Moving operating system to new computer" - Fsarchiver. (by Verndog on 2013-10-01 05:52:06 GMT from United States)
In the past I had issues with Fsarchiver. Not anymore. I have cloned and restored dozens of partitions using Fsarchiver.
Regarding the size difference , going from a larger partition to a smaller one. Here is a quote from the source:
"FSArchiver can extract an archive to a partition which is smaller that the original one as long as there is enough space to store the data. It can also restore the data on a different file-system, so it can use it when you want to convert your file-system: you can backup an ext3 file-system, and restore it as a reiserfs."
Another note is on using "partclone", to backup partitions - which Clonezilla uses.
It also has improved immensely. Partclone is unbelievably fast, especially in piping it to "pigz".
25 • RE 23 : one can find alpha version for TC/ARM (by dbrion on 2013-10-01 05:52:13 GMT from France)
In http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,15934.0.html they announce an alpha3 release for the RPi
26 • TinyCore (by blizar on 2013-10-01 08:57:22 GMT from France)
As in the Porteus review, I am disappointed that this distribution is tested as a standard one (installing on a HDD or in a virtual machine). My interest in TC is to install it on a usb stick, customize it to my need adding my favorite packages and then to move from a computer to another one embedding my environment.
Not many distributions deal with such a mobile and personal use
27 • TinyCore (by wolf on 2013-10-01 09:56:24 GMT from Germany)
@26 I´ll second that. I too think that this weeks review was weak at best. With a little bit of preparation time and reading one would have concluded to do exactly what TinyCore stands for: Put it on a Stick tailor it to your needs and the just try it everywhere, see how it copes with changing environments. Test it on old and new Hardware. Have your small ecosystem with you at all times and show those Apple/Windows/Ubuntu Fanboys what their Bloatware isn´t capable of. So in other words Thank you Jesse for mentioning TinyCore but give it another Try sometime soon. I will do exactly that in like 2 Months or so when I find the Time.
28 • re moving os to new drive (by Frustrated on 2013-10-01 11:01:48 GMT from Canada)
Have tried a number of solutions such as Redo and Clonezilla. They work well, but have had problems when the new (ie. "cloned") drive is on a system with different hardware. While to OS seems to work fine, some hardware is not properly recognized (typically optical drives - dvds, and network cards).
The problem seems to be with udev. I can usually fix the optical recognition by stopping udev, adjusting /etc/udev/rules.d, and then restarting udev so it now recognizes the drives.
Accessing the network card is another matter. Doesn't seem to be a problem with the loaded kernel modules, but rather udev again. Doing a web search on resolving udev problems with network cards after disk cloning, turns up comments that network cards are one thing udev should NOT control. Seems there is no need, it interferes with manual setup, and network cards aren't removable devices like usb keys.
Any suggestions (or ideally, step-by-step description) for resolving network card recognition after disk cloning?
I preferred the "old days" when one manually configured things like /etc/fstab and netconfig and things then worked. Wonder if new-fangled tools like udev, and integrating part of video into the kernel haven't actually been regressive in some respects?
Maybe with the network card thing, the answer is in front of me, and I simply need to toss it aside for a day, get some, sleep, and look at it later; but those web search results about so many similar udev complaints re network card/udev have me thinking it's not just me....
29 • Clonezilla for sure (by RobbobAK on 2013-10-01 16:20:27 GMT from United States)
I actually use Parted Magic and run Clonezilla from its menu. Clonezilla is great for when the drive is going into the computer from which you are cloning. If you place a hard drive with an OS configured to one machine, into a second with (often newer) different hardware, problems will likely occur. I would suggest taking the opportunity to do some house cleaning and start fresh and copy your files over afterward. Fresh installs can take very little time and in many cases are quicker than searching the web for a solution that really works, and saves on frustration trying to solve issues with hardware.
30 • Coincidence Moving to a new computer! (by Wolf on 2013-10-01 19:50:23 GMT from Germany)
What a coincidinc! I just have to move my installation to another (similar) computer! I am intrigued... normally I would just install the next best distro and copy my files, cause I don't believe in moving drivers and stuff but as these 2 Computers only differ in CPU and RAM I think I'll give it a try with my favourite Clonezilla that might actually work .....hope hope!
@18 Your Clonezillaproblem sounds like there was a SPACE in your Filename Clonezilla simply rejects those files though funny enough has no problem writing them to disk... I learned this once the hard way... reading in advance would have helped of course!
31 • Dax os (by Peter on 2013-10-02 19:34:51 GMT from Australia)
The live dvd is in Spanish, and pressing tab does not produce any language options. this is not mentioned on the dax home page. As it is, the thing is unusable
32 • @31 - Maybe it's unusable for you... (by eco2geek on 2013-10-03 06:06:02 GMT from United States)
> As it is, the thing is unusable.
Spanish speakers would probably take umbrage at that comment.
It's very usable -- at the least it's an interesting and colorful demonstration of what one can do with Enlightenment, and of some apps one may not have used before -- if one can find where the language configuration option is located in the Enlightenment settings menu, and switch it to English. It's not that hard to find, really; it's the one with the icon of a colorful flag. Admittedly, some of the menu options remain in Spanish even after the switch to English.
It's also quite usable from the command line in a virtual terminal if one knows how to run the "dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration" command to switch keyboard layouts.
33 • #16 (by zykoda on 2013-10-03 06:19:15 GMT from United Kingdom)
Reading between the lines I would say that the Standard 15M version was tested.
34 • Daz OS and E17 (by Peter on 2013-10-03 20:32:34 GMT from Spain)
I've tested the "Life" version of Dax OS, to see if it had the simplified interface seen in the screenshots, but alas, it's not intuitive as I hoped (for use in old PC's for ungeek users or kids/grandads).
Does anyone know of a Enlightenment desktop mod/theme that is as usable/standard/typical/easy/boring as the old Gnome 2.x, XFCE or LXDE? Enlightment's speed is a great plus, but could we find a simplfied desktop implementation? Does anyone know if the future E18 will improve this situation? I want to love/enjoy Enlightment, but have always failed to find it easy enough for most people to overcome the innitial differences.
35 • @34 E17 (by greg on 2013-10-04 09:54:53 GMT from Slovenia)
Bodhi has a desktop-like theme. i am not sure what is called, but it has that windows start button look if that is what you are after.
36 • @34 (by jaws222 on 2013-10-04 12:56:54 GMT from United States)
I'm not sure how simplified you are looking for, but Enlightement has different themes. I would suggest just trying them to see what fits your needs. Also, if you want to really simplify it you can just delete the icons and panels and simply right or left click and treat it as if it were Openbox. Now that's really simple.
37 • Netrunner (by Jordan on 2013-10-05 12:55:26 GMT from United States)
Netrunner live dvd to the rescue. My Pavilion M7 suddenly became unable to see the hdd, eliciting the error message on boot up: "Boot device not found. Please install an operating system on hour hard drive. Hard disk (3f0)."
BIOS no longer has my hdd listed. I tried swapping to another hdd: same result. Both disks work in another machine, so the issue is not the hard drives but who knows what.
I tried several linux live CDs and DVDs and they all worked ok, but Netrunner acts more like an installed OS than the others. It's based on Kubuntu. Fast and robust, was even able to update via Synaptics (8GB RAM in this laptop).
Linux is amazing just from the standpoint of being able to have a workable OS with no hard drive! VERY workable in the case of Netrunner.
Meanwhile, I do need to find out what made this happen suddenly. It's talked about in forums here and there with other HP models.. HP phone support costs $59 now that this is out of warranty by one whole week, so it's off to a repair shop on Monday.
38 • TC package numbers (cor 12) and RPi TC (post 22) (by dbrion on 2013-10-05 15:50:55 GMT from France)
Well, I had a look at the way packages wer (not) numbered in TC; from http://www.tinycorelinux.net/download_howto.html (there was another site I donot remember) I noticed their change log was mainly :
compiled for i486 and
How can a data base such as DW's one (where one can find package versions : this was a part of DW success) find which version / subversion of a given package is shipped with TC? With telepathic links?
Then , if package versions cannot be found, it is not illogical they are missing.....
Now, pete in post 22 "would have thought that Tiny Core and the Raspberry Pi would be a match made in heaven. ".
I do not know what would be the result of a bug (for a computer which is often viewed as an electronic component : people who use it have to put HW together, and do not want to have extra trouble) in an application: if there are no version number, it might be difficult to understand what is wrong. Rpasbian repositories (ex : http://archive.raspbian.org/raspbian/pool/main/o/ocaml/) , OTOH, have consistent package numbering for the RPi....
Number of Comments: 38
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|• Issue 664 (2016-06-06): Sabayon 16.05, Debian updates install media, the cost of free software, Qubes explains secure build process|
|• Issue 663 (2016-05-30): Comparing live update methods, Ubuntu MATE's progress, distros debate systemd change, DistroWatch turns 15|
|• Issue 662 (2016-05-23): Clonezilla Live, new Fedora community repository, DragonFlyBSD runs Wayland, a live edition of Slackware and kernel components|
|• Issue 661 (2016-05-16): FreeBSD 10.3, OpenMandriva adopts Clang, Debian adds ZFS packages, PCLinuxOS drops 32-bit and comparing CentOS with RHEL|
|• Issue 660 (2016-05-09): Ubuntu MATE 16.04, Mint's xapps, FreeBSD Quarterly Report, Debian updates 32-bit support, addressing GPL violations|
|• Issue 659 (2016-05-02): Ubuntu 16.04, compiling custom kernels, Cinnamon 3.0, Sabayon launches ARM build, Devuan ships Beta release|
|• Issue 658 (2016-04-25): Kali Linux 2016.1, elementary OS 0.3.2, Debian elects Project Leader, Fedora 24 feature preview, Nard reaches 1.0|
|• Issue 657 (2016-04-18): Redox, Linux Mint improves update manager, planned Fedora 24 features, Ubuntu 16.04 getting Snappy packages|
|• Issue 656 (2016-04-11): Qubes OS 3.1, Whonix offers bug bounties, Puppy's family tree, setting up disk partitions and running bash on Windows|
|• Issue 655 (2016-04-04): Parsix 8.5, Sabayon's Community repository, Red Hat offers free subscriptions, Ubuntu tablets, command line tips|
|• Issue 654 (2016-03-28): PCLinuxOS 2016.03, Using signatures to create a web of trust, Arch Linux rolls out Pacman update, GuixSD packages GNOME|
|• Issue 653 (2016-03-21): Antergos 2016.02.21, Debian prepares for election, a Unix-like OS written in Rust, watching Netflix on FreeBSD|
|• Issue 652 (2016-03-14): ReactOS 0.4.0, Debian swaps Iceweasel for Firefox, Fedora moving forward with Wayland, Verifying ISO files|
|• Issue 651 (2016-03-07): Korora 23, Linux Mint improves security, Ubuntu MATE on Raspberry Pi 3 computers, trying different file systems|
|• Issue 650 (2016-02-29): Haiku in 2016, running Android apps on GNU/Linux, 30 years of MINIX, Fedora plans Atomic Workstation|
|• Issue 649 (2016-02-22): Zorin OS 11, openSUSE launches new editions, Linux Mint website compromised, sandboxing applications using Firejail|
|• Issue 648 (2016-02-15): XStream Desktop 153, Raspbian unveils OpenGL feature, free hardware, Ikey Doherty talks desktop design|
|• Full list of all issues|
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