| DistroWatch Weekly
1 • Nice Move (by wolf on 2013-07-08 09:17:47 GMT from Germany) |
Very nice move including that Pi thingy... I was wondering when this would happen. Many of us tried one I suppose... so finally Distrowatch covers it. Congrats
2 • kingsoft (by Pierre on 2013-07-08 10:58:30 GMT from Australia)
in the review of Deepin, - Kingsoft Office was mentioned,
& this seems to be a windows based program, although it also runs on Android & ios.
it doesn't seem to run too well using wine, - though.
3 • Kingsoft (by Jesse on 2013-07-08 11:23:08 GMT from Canada)
Re 2: Kingsoft's suite is a native Linux application and runs pretty well when run as a native app. I plan to cover it in more detail next week.
4 • Raspberry Pi OS reviews? (by DavidEF on 2013-07-08 11:23:50 GMT from United States)
Now that Raspberry Pi is covered in DistroWatch with 5 distros built specifically for it, I'd like to see some reviews of these operating systems, especially the Raspbmc (does it use Wayland?) and Risc OS. "RISC OS is not a version of Linux, nor is it in any way related to Windows, and it has a number of unique features and aspects to its design." - from the announcement above. I'd like to know how well these perform on the limited hardware of the Raspberry Pi.
5 • Whonix, privacy (by Jon Wright on 2013-07-08 11:32:06 GMT from Vietnam)
I read the summary and opened this edition of DW expecting to have to complain that Whonix _isnot_ a distro. So thanks Jesse for making that clear from the get-go. [I was amazed that Jemima Kiss in the Guardian called this project "the ultimate in internet armour, there’s even a complete secure operating system called Whonix" while not mentioning Qubes or Tails (and Jesse, you could have mentioned the former.).] And Jesse, you could have mentioned some of the background re Whonix - they seem to have an extensive wiki (should have mentioned) but for a project like this a little bit in the way of 'credentials' needs to be mentioned.
The conclusion reads "If you're in a situation where most of your work is done in the open, but there are a few things you do that you wish kept *private* ..." - may I ask in what sense is sending all your traffic thru Tor considered 'private'? Ever heard of exit nodes? I might have one, you might have one.
I skipped the intervening six paragraphs - I think a solution like this deserves much more proper coverage - if anything it shouldn't be treated like a review but as a topic in the Q&A section. If covered in the review then it should have been described alongside Qubes. And the necessary bases need to be covered - has DW covered Tor or general privacy issues lately?
6 • 64-bit capability of CPU (by greenpossum on 2013-07-08 11:33:29 GMT from Australia)
grep -w lm /proc/cpuinfo
If there is any output, i.e. the word lm appears for one or more cores, it's 64-bit capable.
7 • RISC OS (by Felix on 2013-07-08 11:53:51 GMT from Romania)
Wow, RISC OS lives? That's good news, even though it's not an especially open system. Good find!
8 • Thoughts on Linux Deepin (by LinuxMan on 2013-07-08 12:10:39 GMT from United States)
I've had Deepin 12.12 installed on a test partition since it was released and have found it to be the most locked down distribution I've tried to date. It looks nice, the custom applications work well and their software center is nice but I don't believe it's as good as the Ubuntu Software Center. The only thing I really have against the distribution is the lack of any kind of installed customization tools. For instance, there is no easy way to change the wallpaper or much else for that matter. The user manual in of no help in this regard. Earlier version of Deepin was very easy to customize and I believe the problems they have now is because of their new DE. You can download applications or tools to achieve customization but you shouldn't have to. I've been told in the forums that the desktop environment is new and custom made and will receive improvements in future releases. When asked in the forums about advance settings the response was what advance settings do you want and why. No straightforward answers. This distro will appeal to users that are new in using Linux but still needs some work to make it useable in my opinion. Future releases may make this a top notch distro but not at this time.
9 • Kingsoft Office/WPS for Linux (by Dave Postles on 2013-07-08 12:12:48 GMT from United Kingdom)
You can download debs or rpms or tar files at:
10 • Processor (by Bob Eiser on 2013-07-08 12:26:21 GMT from United States)
Here is a simple one! uname -m robert@bobmintbox ~ $ uname -m
robert@bobmintbox ~ $
11 • @10 (by Nobody on 2013-07-08 12:47:24 GMT from United States)
If you have a 32bit linux distro installed on a 64bit machine, your command will confuse a newbie into thinking they don't have a 64bit machine.
12 • Well, answered one of my questions (by DavidEF on 2013-07-08 13:03:27 GMT from United States)
From the Raspbmc website - "Q: Can I run a VNC server on Raspbmc?
A: No. VNC relies on the X11 window system, but Raspbmc’s XBMC implementation is rendered in the framebuffer only. Thus VNC cannot be used as there is no X-session available for connection."
So, now that opens a new question for me. What does running in framebuffer do? Is it better quality? performance? other? Would Wayland be a better alternative?
13 • RE4 For hobbyists, RPi is not a limited HW (by dbrion on 2013-07-08 13:19:06 GMT from France)
There are three uses of RPi :
a) teaching C and Python (a C compiler can work on a 128M RAM : one can verify it, before buying, with arm-qemu)
b) a slow (?) PC (but typing one or two pages -the main demand at Internet cafés- is not tha t ressource consuming.
c) an electronic component (the only shops I know who sell RPis are electronic oriented), sometimes cheaper than its 8 bits equivalent (but it is a matter of connectics : I hope RPis connectors will be and remain reliable). As robotics/electronics amateurs are not obliged to be software gurus, they are advised to install GNUlinux on their PCs to train themselves, and to add Rapsbian on the RPi ; then, if they need , they can do image recognition (no need for special HW), drive sevomechanisms and motors (a PC cannot directly; a Rpi -and many 8 bits microcontrollers - can )http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=132137&start=80&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
14 • UEFI (by octathlon on 2013-07-08 13:58:38 GMT from United States)
It deeply disturbs me that Linux and BSD projects must grovel before Microsoft to get their key signed to be allowed to install their OS. Why should MS have such power? There should be an independent entity to handle this.
15 • @13 Limited yes, but you're right, too! (by DavidEF on 2013-07-08 14:08:51 GMT from United States)
When I said Raspberry Pi had limited hardware, I meant the usual specs people look at in a computer - processing cores (one), processing speed (umm...choose from 700MHz to slightly more if you overclock), RAM (512 MB if you get Model B, 256 for Model A), HDD Capacity (NONE, use SD card for OS and storage, choose your size, but still very limited compared to what "real" HDD's and SSD's can offer), connections (several, some of which are not found on any PC's, but still missing several that ARE found on most PC's).
However, Raspberry Pi is extremely versatile, and can be useful for a lot more than most people can even imagine. The small size and low power requirements, along with those "other" connections (GPIO pins are most often talked about, but there are others as well) make the Raspberry Pi most probably the LEAST limited computer available, as far as the variety of ways it can be put to some use.
16 • UEFI? (by LinuxMan on 2013-07-08 14:15:39 GMT from United States)
I believe that you are talking about Secure Boot not UEFI.
17 • Secure Boot not from MS. (by LinuxMan on 2013-07-08 14:58:41 GMT from United States)
Furthermore just to knock this out of the way right now, (It's been talked about before), Secure Boot can be turned off completely or, custom mode entered and other keys added if so desired thus avoiding the need to deal with Microsoft. Although it does add extra steps to installing a Linux or BSD system it's not that difficult to deal with and Secure Boot is part of the UEFI specifications, not Microsoft's.
18 • Linux Reference Sites (by Bam on 2013-07-08 15:03:46 GMT from United States)
Hello all, I have listed some reference links below. Going to the links at least once a week, will answer basic questions concerning Secure Boot and UEFI, Kingsoft Office, ect. These site are helpful for newbies,hobbyist and of course us everyday users of Linux.
19 • secure boot (by jeferson on 2013-07-08 15:05:12 GMT from Brazil)
I agree with the 14 comment protest. We have the right to install what we want in these machines Suggestions? Do a total delete a pc with the windows 8, remove the hard drive with windows 8 or buy part by part and mount yourself a pc with those parts.
20 • @17 Secure Boot (by octathlon on 2013-07-08 15:13:10 GMT from United States)
In some cases Secure Boot CANNOT be turned off completely, and in other cases Secure Boot may be desired. In theses cases, an independent authority should be signing the key, NOT Microsoft. We shouldn't have to forgo the use of Secure Boot to avoid dealing with Microsoft.
21 • Whonix Persistence @ jesse (by William Barath on 2013-07-08 15:17:33 GMT from Canada)
Actually you have the option of turning on snapshots and then discarding the system state when you shut down and/or start up, so no, you do not have to discard and re-import the images manually.
22 • Raspberry Pi Asterisk PBX Distro (by Ronald Gibson on 2013-07-08 15:18:59 GMT from United States)
PBX In A Flash for the Raspberry Pi board.
After a while Distrowatch might need to add the BeagleBone Black board distros.
23 • RE14 : there are other cards than RPi (by dbrion on 2013-07-08 15:26:08 GMT from France)
I know BeagleBone (was expensive : now, the price difference w/r RPi accounts for excellent connectivity , -the clock difference, if it is meaningful, even within the same family of processors, can be neglected-),
PCduino (about same price; has connectics somewhat compatible with -mostly - 8 bits Arduino) can work in two modes:
* PC clone (main use of PCs , in my city, is text processing/printing : could be done on Apple IIe |CPM in the late 70s... 1000 times tinier than ARMs).
* electronic component (logical inputs/outputs, pulse generation : for servos; LED matrix driving; sophisticated robots), sometimes cheaper than their 8 bits equivalents (but slower, without image processing abilities).
One very ennoying drawback I see is that they have only one USB channel -PC have 2 AFAIK, for webcams not to interfere with mice, say...-
All these ARM based "PC clones" can run on Debian -other distributions maybe; I am sure for Debian, which makes things slightly more pleasant than compiling everything with buildroot (people buying exotic HW are happy if they see it works and do not have to wait for ca 1hr)
24 • Deepin Linux 12.12 (by Chanath on 2013-07-08 16:12:51 GMT from Sri Lanka)
I think its the cutest Ubuntu based distro I've seen up to today. It is also quite
responsive, and with all necessary apps in it. The wallpapers can be changed quite easily, System Settings>Personalization> Deepin> click "+" and add any wallpaper you want. I have still a little problem with changing keyboard layouts, and the devs are working on that, at least one in the forum said so. But, that's a mnor matter, as there are ways to get around it. I've used it since it was released, and Deepin had not given any problems at all.
Jesse, why don't you install it and give us a real review? This is what I consider as making a distro based on another, lot of theri own apps, customizations etc. The Elementary OS wants to make a different from Ubuntu distro and still struggling to release a stable one, while Deepin had made 2 already, Here are some thoughts about Deepin 12.12 http://www.linuxdeepin.com/forum/8/14302
25 • Asus Ubuntu laptop review (by penguinx64 on 2013-07-08 16:18:38 GMT from United States)
I got my Asus Ubuntu 11.6 inch laptop and had a few days to try it out. Here is my review. The initial setup for Ubuntu took about 15 minutes. Then, I tried to run the Update Manager, but there was an error message saying Flash Player was from an Untrusted Source. None of the other updates would run because of that. The factory Ubuntu 12.04 install seems to work just fine, except for the update problem. I don't really like the Ubuntu Unity interface, so I installed 64 bit Linux Mint 14 MATE along side Ubuntu. I prefer a more traditional desktop experience. Mint installed just fine and recognized all of the hardware with no hassle. The wifi adapter even worked first try. Haven't tried any other distros yet. Seems to work just fine for a $299 laptop. You can buy the same laptop with Windows 8 for about $80 more, but why pay the Windows Tax?
26 • @ 18 • Linux Reference Sites (by Chanath on 2013-07-08 16:25:07 GMT from Sri Lanka)
One site you must've forgotten; www.noobslab.com/
27 • @ 24 Deepin (by Rev_Don on 2013-07-08 16:51:50 GMT from United States)
Channath wrote "Jesse, why don't you install it and give us a real review? This is what I consider as making a distro based on another, lot of theri own apps, customizations etc."
Did you actually read the review Jesse did as the above comment of yours leads me to believe that you did not. The third paragraph of his review clearly states that
"Unfortunately, upon rebooting the computer and attempting to load Deepin the operating system locked up. I tried booting the distribution several times using different boot options. In each case the system was unable to reach a point where I could attempt to login. This surprised me as Deepin's parent distribution works fairly well on this hardware. So, as it turned out, I was limited in my usage of Deepin and my observations were confined to the distribution's live disc."
Sounds to me that he did indeed install Deepin and attempted to do as you suggested.
I will admit though, that once again (like in so many of the reviews he posts) it appears that there is some sort of hardware issue at play here as time and time again he runs into an issue on a bare metal install. While I haven't taken the time to do a precise count, it seems to me that at least half of the installs have major issues of one sort or another which leads me to believe it is hardware based. Unfortunately Jesse doesn't seem overly interested in working out these issues, or even post more in depth and precise hardware specs of the system he is using. How difficult would it be to post Intel E8500, Intel P45 chipset (or Gigabyte PE45-UD3P) mobo, 6 gig PC2-8500, HIS HD5670, Realtek RTL8168, etc instead of the generic "dual-core 2.8 GHz CPU, 6 GB of RAM, Radeon video card, Realtek network card" It's not like he would need to type it in each time. Type it up once, save it in a text file, then copy and past it into each review. Or one could setup a boilerplate document for reviews with that information already included. It would be so much more helpful and meaningful as it would permit others to assist in determining why he has so many problems installing various distros.
Just my 2 cents worth. Other peoples mileage may vary.
28 • @ 27 Rev Don (by Chanath on 2013-07-08 17:26:10 GMT from Sri Lanka)
No live disk review is worth its salt. If the distro didn't install, try it again and again, and/or download it again. This is nothing against Jesse's review, but your comments ReV Don.
Now, go back in time and read some coments; http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20130624&mode=67#comments
Once you go there, go down to comment # 20 okay?
29 • PAE (by Nick on 2013-07-08 17:31:57 GMT from United Kingdom)
I have a Pentium M 745A processor from 2006. This processor is one of the few recent ones that DOES NOT support PAE. However, using the method explained above by Jesse Smith, it says my processor DOES support PAE. This is incorrect, so there's something wrong with his method somewhere.
30 • @ 27 Rev Don (by Chanath on 2013-07-08 17:40:51 GMT from Sri Lanka)
My laptop is 4 years old, Core 2 duo 2.4 GHz, 2.8 GB ram, Intel video, Broadcom wireless and everything--Arch, Debian, Mageia, Open Suse, Sabayon, Zenwalk-- gets installed. Only, the last Fedora 19 didn't get installed as its installer didn't see the inside of my hard disk. I simply dropped it. F18 got installed.
I am wrtng from Deepn 12.12 and have installed GS and G-panel in it too.
31 • Deepin Problems and Secure Boot (by LinuxMan on 2013-07-08 17:53:22 GMT from United States)
@24, I tried that and I got no response. I may have a botch install. Thanks for the info and I'll reinstall to see if that's the problem.
@20, I haven't run into any that couldn't be turned off but that's just me. That could very well be the case and I just don't know about it. I do agree that MS shouldn't be the only ones signing the keys but like I've said, custom mode allows other keys to be added and that also works.
@19, You have the suggestions on how to install other operating systems. Changing the hard drive, deleting the operating system, will not work. Building a system with the parts you buy, as long as you know what you are buying, (a lot of new motherboards have the UEFI with Secure Boot), would work fine.
32 • PAE support (by Jesse on 2013-07-08 18:03:27 GMT from Canada)
>> "I have a Pentium M 745A processor from 2006. This processor is one of the few recent ones that DOES NOT support PAE. However, using the method explained above by Jesse Smith, it says my processor DOES support PAE. This is incorrect, so there's something wrong with his method somewhere."
I believe you are mistaken. Earlier versions of the Pentium M 745 did not have PAE support, those were released back around 2003-2004. However, revisions of the chipset that were sold in 2005-2006 did include PAE support. So if your chip really was sold to you in 2006 then it almost certainly does have PAE support, or at least it is reporting to the operating system that is can support PAE-enabled kernels. You may want to try installing a PAE-enabled kernel sometime to see what happens.
33 • @32 Jesse (by Nick on 2013-07-08 18:18:28 GMT from United Kingdom)
I bought the computer in 2006. The processor was made in 2004. I have tried booting Xubuntu 13.10 on it, and it refuses to boot.
The Pentium M 745A definitely DOESN'T support PAE (It has a 400MHz FSB - only the later ones with a 533MHz FSB support PAE), yet your method shows that it does.
34 • @32 Jesse (by Nick on 2013-07-08 18:20:03 GMT from United Kingdom)
I meant Xubuntu 13.04 - sorry.
35 • PAE (by Nick on 2013-07-08 18:39:28 GMT from United Kingdom)
Perhaps there's something funny about Pentiums M Processors.
I'd be interested to know whether other non-PAE Pentium Ms (any with a 400MHz front side bus) report wrongly that they support PAE.
36 • Whither LXDE? (by M. Edward (Ed) Borasky on 2013-07-08 19:22:29 GMT from United States)
If I were LXDE, I'd seriously consider going to Qt *and* merging with the Razor-Qt project. In my semi-annual pass at all the major Linux desktops, LXDE came out on the bottom, *below* OpenBox!
I don't see much of a future for stripped-down "desktops" like LXDE and IceWM. Either you use a tiling window manager like XMonad or you use a desktop like Cinnamon, MATE or the biggies - Unity, GNOME3/Classic or KDE. The big ones are all modular anyhow.
37 • @33,34 re: M 745A and PAE (by Pearson on 2013-07-08 20:31:24 GMT from United States)
According to the Intel page for this chip , that processor does support Physical Address Extensions (PAE). I wonder if perhaps there's some underlying supporting technology that prevents Xubuntu from recognizing it?
38 • @29,37 re:PAE (by Pearson on 2013-07-08 20:47:01 GMT from United States)
I'll add that *if* Jesse's steps are wrong for your processor, that would be a bug in the kernel, worth reporting. The /proc filesystem is populated by the Linux kernel at runtime.
39 • @37 Pearson (by Nick on 2013-07-08 20:50:49 GMT from United Kingdom)
Thanks for your comment. But where on that page doses it say it supports PAE? I can't see it anywhere.
I'd be glad to be wrong, since I really don't want to retire my computer yet!
40 • @37 Pearson (by Nick on 2013-07-08 20:54:31 GMT from United Kingdom)
I yeah, I see it now, sorry. I must be wrong! I'll try out some other distros on it.
41 • PAE (by Bam on 2013-07-08 21:19:15 GMT from United States)
I have just finished reading the comments concerning PAE, they showed a lack of effort to research the issue by some. I am not going to re-plow old ground. Just to say this could have been easily solved by "googling" PAE. Or even going to Youtube.com. "I support windows,and use Linux to get work done."
42 • PAE (by Nick on 2013-07-08 21:24:51 GMT from United Kingdom)
The Intel website is wrong. I've looked at every Pentium M processor's page, and according to Intel, every single Pentium M Processor has PAE support.
This is clearly wrong, since it is well known that most Pentium Ms don't support PAE. Threads such as these wouldn't exist otherwise: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2113826 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1975422
43 • @41 Bam (by Nick on 2013-07-08 21:38:27 GMT from United Kingdom)
Thanks for your kind words.
FYI, I've been researching this issue sporadically for the past month.
It's not my fault, no one cares any more about Pentium M Processors.
44 • Whonix et al. (by Barnabyh on 2013-07-08 22:53:50 GMT from Germany)
Thanks for one of the more interesting weeklies. I've used Tor on and off over the last few years but will use projects like Tails and Whonix a lot more in the future.
Maybe even to the degree of using conventional distributions less, or only as a base for VB.
45 • Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith)!!! (by Rapsod on 2013-07-08 23:00:12 GMT from Montenegro)
I am curious. Is it possible to have 64-bit processor and 32-bit north bridge? I am asking because I can install 64-bit OS on my old laptop. And processor does have PAE. And it is 64-bit.
46 • @36 LXDE + Razor-Qt merger (by impossiblescissors on 2013-07-09 04:37:52 GMT from United States)
The seeds for a merger of LXDE and Razor-Qt have been sewn already; The PCManFM file manager has been ported to Qt. The rest of LXDE can't be too far behind. Being a loosely-integrated collection of programs, LXDE could always save some time in porting to Qt by utilizing existing programs from Razor-Qt. Admittedly, Razor-Qt isn't near the maturity level of LXDE yet, so a lot of work remains to be done.
If sticking with GTK+2 much longer is not an option, it makes me wonder what MATE and Xfce are planning to do long-term. I always considered MATE a fallback option while the bugs were getting worked out of Cinnamon, but Xfce has won me over by striking the right balance between pleasing appearance and low memory + CPU demands. i certainly hope Xfce makes the port to GTK+3 soon!
47 • SecureBoot certification agency (by Somewhat Reticent on 2013-07-09 05:29:52 GMT from United States)
Didn't Microsoft spin off Verisign for a layer-of-separation plausible-deniability? Of course, only Microsoft tools can be used to generate ... and many hardware makers count on MS for a community platform.
48 • Raspberry Pi (by Bill Savoie on 2013-07-09 05:34:32 GMT from United States)
I just bought a Raspberry Pi and I am waiting for the mail to arrive. I plan to power it with a 7 port USB hub, and I will add heat sinks to the cpu and gpu in the hope that it can run for years without needing a fan or getting too hot. After having 'normal computers' and doing many types of Linux, I look forward to again using vim and a soldering iron. Just like in the old days. Thanks for adding a new section dedicated to this branch of inexpensive technology, where once again, the more the merrier. The whole world will be a development team. Thanks again.
49 • Whonix as a VM vs TAILS as a live CD (by Michael on 2013-07-09 05:54:14 GMT from Australia)
Why not have the best of both worlds: the (relative) speed of an installed VM, a la Whonix, and the guaranteed clean environment of a live CD, a la TAILS?
Just download the TAILS (or Qubes) ISO and use your virtual environment to boot from it.
It's what I do...
50 • Whonix clean environment (by Gerald on 2013-07-09 09:13:48 GMT from Austria)
Please tell me if its a mistake, but you can also keep Whonix clean: you make a snapshot and return every time when start and close to that snapshot ... all changes are lost, also malware ... i am right? I created with this way a sandbox for secure browsing.
51 • Deepin (by forlin on 2013-07-09 13:38:56 GMT from Portugal)
Build a new distro from ground zero requires a massive amount of human resources, and in various instances it may imply reinventing the wheel. That's why most new distros are based on the good old and well established existing ones
That said, I suppose that a lot of added value must be integrated in derivative distros, to set them apart from the ones they are based on, in order to bring real appeal to the users. It should be much more about developing and designing work than just different wall papers, applications, and the like.
Deepin is a good example of right approach. Unfortunately, they're the exception rather than the rule.
52 • Whonix, Tails etc. (by Zorac on 2013-07-09 14:24:26 GMT from Canada)
I would like to have a mixture of Whonix and Tails. I prefer TAILS from a virtual environment but I do not want to change the screen resolution, add a keyboard layout, etc. every time I use it. And Tails does not have an install option or they let you on your own.
To expand the idea behind Whonix - I think bridging the first network interface of the Whonix Gateway to the interface of your physical machine and changing the IP settings of the later resembling the settings of Whonix-Workstation, will let you use Tor network from your physical host.
But I do not want to leave all my traffic to the mercy of Tor exit nodes.
Btw TAILS defaults every boot to the same exit node.
In two words - I want Tails but with an install option that would prevent changing settings on every boot.
53 • @ 51 (by Chanath on 2013-07-09 16:29:12 GMT from Sri Lanka)
The other guy, who does a good job of making a new distro based on an existing one is David Tavares of Pear OS. He kept on moving forward and used 3rd party apps, configured them for his distro. He is coming up with #8 of his creation.
54 • @30 (by Adam Williamson on 2013-07-09 23:48:47 GMT from Canada)
I just had a thought on your 'Fedora doesn't see my hard disk' problem - is your 'hard disk' by any chance an Intel firmware RAID-1 set? And are you using the live installer? If so, you'd be hitting https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=975649 . Booting with 'enforcing=0' or using the non-live installer would fix it.
55 • HDT - Hardware Detection Tool (by Somewhat Reticent on 2013-07-10 08:30:41 GMT from United States)
I vaguely remember booting to an effective part of a syslinux-based toolset; sourceforge project, OS-independent, handy for Linux Point-Of-View hardware questions. Its ASCII-GUI reminded me of CP/M, DOS and AS/400 terminals.
56 • @54 Adam Williamson (by Chanath on 2013-07-10 09:50:23 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Thank you for remembering. Here is all about my hard disk; http://www.hdsentinel.com/storageinfo_details.php?lang=en&model=HITACHI%20HTS723216L9SA60
I tried to use the live installer. It showed 2 disks, sda (hard disk) and sdb (usb stick with F19 live), but nothing inside the sda. It had one free partition formatted to ext4. The laptop is Lenovo T400, where everything gets installed. Rgds!
57 • Re: #45 (by silent on 2013-07-10 11:40:28 GMT from France)
Yes, it is possible, eg. some motherboards with i945 chipsets.
58 • @ 54 Correction (by Chanath on 2013-07-10 14:28:54 GMT from Sri Lanka)
My comment has to be corrected. I had one partition formatted to ext4, I have written "It", instead of "I." Sorry.
59 • "Trivial" Distros (by Marco on 2013-07-10 16:53:21 GMT from United States)
One use case for derivatives not far removed from their upstream is for regular use as a live USB. Having the right set of software on a distro is nice. Some banking sites might block rekonq, so I use FF on Xubuntu; You Tube still works better with Flash, so I use OpenSUSE; Abiword might not open complex .DOCX files, so I use Kubuntu etc. So I have several distros on live USBs for different purposes. Once installed, I could load my own applications, but I frequently prefer a live USB.
So keep the derivatives coming!
60 • @ 59 Trivial Distros (by Rev_Don on 2013-07-11 01:20:19 GMT from United States)
Why not setup a Live USB with persistence and install the apps you use on it instead of a bunch of different distros to use a single app? Makes more sense to me.
61 • Sabayon 13.04 KDE (by Chanath on 2013-07-11 05:14:03 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Went back to my Sabayon 13.04 KDE installation for sometime. Even being KDE, Sabayon is pretty quick. Looked at the System Monitor and I find that it uses exactly 50% of the RAM, i.e, 1.4 GB of 2.8 GB memory and stays fixed at that, time to time moving up to 1.5 GB. It doesn't even touch the swap, which is 2.9GB.
Having large RAM is no use, if its not used for daily work. many other distros don't even go up to 1GB memory use. this must be making Sabayon a quick distro.
62 • @59,60 Trivial Distros (by DavidEF on 2013-07-11 13:20:51 GMT from United States)
While I have a lot more tolerance for "trivial" distros than some people, I have to agree with Rev_Don. Needing several different apps that do the same thing, because of compatibility issues, is not a good reason to have a bunch of derivative distros. Fortunately, there are plenty of better reasons that make derivative distros worth having around. Installing multiple apps in one distro makes a lot more sense than installing a distro for each app.
63 • @59,60,62 (by mcellius on 2013-07-11 16:32:25 GMT from United States)
I very much agree with Rev_Don and DavidEF. In fact, isn't that really part of the Linux philosophy, that you find and use the tools that work best to do the job? It's one of the best features of Linux! If you need a different tool than the off-the-rack distro you downloaded provides, you can add tools and make changes to get it just the way you want.
This works all the way up to desktop environments, I feel. Don't like one? Try another! Or set up your system so that you have several choices when you boot-up. Options and freedom of choice are what Linux is all about, isn't it? (Including, of course, the freedom to do what Marco does and just boot into different distros for each need; I would find that onerous, but if that's what he wants to do it's okay.) Of course, such freedom of choice is not what the Windows and Mac worlds are about, and for many of us is what we most dislike about them.
And yet I can't help but wonder where we'd be if instead of churning out hundreds of "trivial" distros, a lot of that talent were working on apps. Imagine if we had thousands more programmers cooperating to make Linux apps more powerful and capable; we'd have Windows struggling to keep up! (Yeah, I know it's more fun to be the boss of your own distro than one of many contributors to an app, but it's really what Linux needs.)
64 • @ 63 Talent (by Rev_Don on 2013-07-12 00:27:29 GMT from United States)
Better yet, working to stop all of the breakage Linux users run into with one updated app breaking another existing app. The apps don't necessarily need to get better, just less volatile towards each other. Other than that I totally agree with you.
65 • Keeping things uniformed. (by LinuxMan on 2013-07-12 12:08:35 GMT from United States)
It's been my experience that applications seem to have more breakage when you get them out of their ecosystem. Sometimes applications will be built for a certain version of a distro and things will be just fine. Trying to install packages made for one version into another distro version can cause breakage more often than not. Things are changing constantly and it can be hard for application maintainers to keep up with the differences. If I run into a "must have" application that is not in my distro repositories or in a third party repository that's catering to my distro and version, I try to compile it myself. Most of the time that works, sometimes it doesn't. It's just my opinion that it's not the derivative distros that hurts Linux adoption but that it's the problem with application development and distribution. It is my opinion that the developers of well made applications that are useful and important to the Linux ecosystem should in some way be compensated for their hard work and their vision. How this would be done? I'm not really sure what would be the best or proper way. The Humble Bundle system seems to work well. It's mostly for games and e-books now but I don't see why it couldn't be used for other type of applications. Anyway this is just my take or opinion on these matters and as such is to be taken with a grain of salt.
66 • Casualties of this system (by LinuxMan on 2013-07-12 18:08:28 GMT from United States)
What I find amazing is that developers will work tirelessly on an application and just be content to accept donations. Don't get me wrong. There are a lot of good people out there who donate to these good projects. There has been casualties. One of my favorites was K9COPY. One day we had it and the next day it was gone, and you can't fault the developer. And the same thing happened to a distro that is still active but nowhere used as much. SimplyMepis was a gem of a distro but Warren couldn't make a living keeping the distro going working full time. The community around SimplyMepis does most of the work now but here we are talking about applications. To keep up with technology these applications have to be always updated and taken care of. People need to be paid for their efforts. Remember that. The next time you download and install one of your favorite applications think about the developer and also everyone else that it takes to make these apps possible. If you can, make a little donation. This should not interfere with the free software movement in any way. No one needs to be a blood sucking leech.
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