| DistroWatch Weekly
1 • Ubuntu / Mir and gpu graphics (by Andrew Yeomans on 2013-07-01 09:22:09 GMT from United Kingdom) |
Jono Bacon also said: "We are working with GPU vendors and partners to provide the required driver support and are confident to have this in place for 14.04." so hopefully there will be support for Nvidia and ATI. Wonder if this will extend to the older cards - I've had some issues with those and the more recent Ubuntu releases.
Jono also says "All desktops run competently in XMir." so hopefully we'll keep seeing the other desktop flavours.
2 • Peppermint (by Wine Curmudgeon on 2013-07-01 10:05:17 GMT from United States)
Exactly the same problems with Peppermint on the install. You aren't alone.
3 • OpenSuse, Mint (by Bob on 2013-07-01 10:33:22 GMT from Austria)
oSuse stopped support for 12.1 and their latest version doesn't like my hardware. Although I would have preferred not to switch, I gave Mint Debian Edition (Mate) a try. No glitches so far - I guess their Distrowatch ranking is well deserved.
Now, if someone already has had the time to play with ALL of Mint's editions, I'd be thankful for some feedback or recommendations. Cheers.
4 • DoudouLinux (by greg on 2013-07-01 12:04:46 GMT from Slovenia)
DoudouLinux is a good idea and execution. However the problem as with other distros are lack of any good kids games. i mean there were better kids games made in Spectrum that i find in linux. what happened to this genre of games and educational programmes? all this computing power we have today and games look worse than they did in the 80's...
5 • Respect Your Freedom certification (by Magic Banana on 2013-07-01 12:48:08 GMT from Brazil)
The FSF has just awarded a second "Respect Your Freedom certification" to ThinkPenguin: https://www.fsf.org/news/a-second-fsf-certified-device-from-thinkpenguin-long-range-usb-wifi-adapter-with-atheros-chip
Big up to Chris! We need more and more hardware vendors like ThinkPenguin. For that, we users caring about their software freedoms up to the firmware.
6 • ThinkPenguin (by greg on 2013-07-01 12:51:02 GMT from Slovenia)
well i've checked their prices and i am not rich enough to buy free hardware.
i've found similar HP build, only with radeon HD, partially aluminium built (thogh plastic hinges), SEL preinstalled for about 300 EUR cheaper.
7 • @ 5 • Respect Your Freedom certification (by Chanath on 2013-07-01 13:06:28 GMT from Sri Lanka)
I'd award myself the "Respect Your Freedom certification" for being free enough to use any distro I like. I am sure none of the members of FSF use anything with any proprietary anything, not even a simple mobile phone...
8 • Mint Varieties review please (by Timo on 2013-07-01 13:13:56 GMT from United Kingdom)
in comment #3, Bob has a great idea.
I'd love a compare/contrast review between the most popular distro here on Distrowatch - the Mint variations, especially covering the individual strengths and weaknesses, memory footprint, install size. I've been thinking of a long-term trial of Mint for a few years now but I'm unsure what variety and don't want to waste weeks on a variant that will not suit me.
9 • RE: 7 FSF and mobile phones (by ladislav on 2013-07-01 13:18:53 GMT from Taiwan)
Actually Richard Stallman has been quite vocal agains using mobile phones. Quoting from his LifeStyle page:
"I see that cellular phones are very convenient. I would have got one, if not for certain reprehensible things about them."
More here: http://stallman.org/rms-lifestyle.html
10 • Linux games for all to review (by Bam on 2013-07-01 13:25:36 GMT from United States)
Here are some educational games for kids, and a link to review other Linux software.
GCompris- Educational games for small children
Childsplay- Suite of educational games for young children
KDE Education Project Educational applications from the official KDE 4 release
TuxMathMath -game for kids with Tux
Tux Typing -Educational Typing Tutor Game Starring Tux, the Linux Penguin
Omnitux - Interactive geometry software
Dr. Geo-Educational oriented interactive geometry
I have installed and have tried GCompris andChildsplay on over 30 laptops.
I can only speak on Ubuntu; they are in the Software Center for review.
11 • ThinkPenguin (by octathlon on 2013-07-01 14:15:56 GMT from United States)
First, I like what Thinkpenguin is doing and support their goals. I looked at their website after the Trisquel review, but they provide very little info on the specs and nothing about available options. Couldn't even find size of hard drive included. They might increase sales if they improve on that. I looked for an NAS as well, but the answer in the interview sounds like they don't intend to offer that.
12 • Reply to #'s 3 and 8 (by Chris on 2013-07-01 14:28:19 GMT from United States)
Youtube has a lot of videos on the different flavors of Mint. Or try running them in a virtual machine. There's no better experience than playing with it for your self.
13 • Mint versions Re @Bob #3 (by Hugo Masse on 2013-07-01 14:31:20 GMT from Mexico)
Great decision you made. I gather your equipment is not exactly brand new, so LMDE is a good choice. If you are not pressed to get the newest version of everything, you're good there. As you know, Linux Mint releases Update Pack 3 or 4 times a year so you may find that what has been released in Debian will take some time to get to your desktop. What you get in return is absolute stability.
For veteran equipment, LM 13 is also a good choice, since it's LTS and you don't need to worry about lack of support for the next 4 years. Personally, I like both Cinnamon and MATE. The former has transparencies and many other modern niceties and rumour has it that it will no longer depend on Gnome 3 quite soon. I also enjoy MATE, it's like a time machine as it allows you to configure things like you used to do in Gnome 2. KDE doesn't agree with my vintage equipment very much and for some reason there has never been much love between me and Xfce.
I also vote in favour of the Mint versions review.
14 • peppermint (by Peer on 2013-07-01 14:43:03 GMT from Netherlands)
I use Peppermint 3 on my EEEpc. It is fast and responsive. My first experience was with Peppermint 1. I tried several other OS's but I always returned to Peppermint.
For me it is simply a good os.
15 • ThinkPenguin (by Magic Banana on 2013-07-01 14:57:05 GMT from Brazil)
@6: AMD cards do not provide any 3D acceleration unless you accept proprietary firmware (what you should not if you value your freedoms). You will also probably have the Wifi connection not working with Linux-libre (hence 100% free operating system such as Trisquel) if you pick a random computer that is not sold by ThinkPenguin.
@7: ThinkPenguin hardware works with *any* GNU/Linux distribution. It will probably keep on working because the software to run it is free. You need not fear problems once the manufacturer stops selling the device you bought (what usually happens after a few months).
@11: You have not looked enough. Just click on any computer model ThinkPenguin sells (desktop or laptop) and you can then choose the processor you would like (all the one ThinkPenguin propose do not raise any "trusted computing" problem, vPro and the likes), the amount of RAM, of HDD (or SSD), whether you prefer a matte or brilliant screen, additional peripherals, etc.
16 • Pepermint (by Gee on 2013-07-01 15:07:41 GMT from United States)
Had a very similar experience with Peppermint and also Bodhi. But if you manually install the non free on Bodhi you get a panic on login. Bodhi blames it on a non-PAE motherboard. I've tried them both on a PIII (with PAE) a 478 chipset P4 and 900 mhz EEEE. They all have Lubuntu running happily on them.
17 • Thinkpenguin and "Free" stuff (by DavidEF on 2013-07-01 16:02:53 GMT from United States)
@6 greg - I'm with you 100% there. ThinkPenguin stuff is way too pricey. Just now, after reading your post, I compared a brand new build at ThinkPenguin with a search for similar specs at Ebay. For a brand new computer, you will pay twice the price at ThinkPenguin. I picked hardware specs that are common on modern laptops, but not high end at all. Zareason and System76 are also overpriced. What is the deal here? This doesn't make sense at all.
@7 Chanath, can I get one of those too? I'll use what works for me. There are some people that think Proprietary == Evil. I don't think that is necessarily the case every time. Sometimes it is just too much of a liability to give an unknown enduser unfettered control over their software and/or hardware.
18 • @11 octathlon (by DavidEF on 2013-07-01 16:10:47 GMT from United States)
ThinkPenguin does actually give you some options on how your system is built. As Magic Banana said, you can click on the laptop series you want to build, then the next screen gives you lots of drop-down option lists. However, they still don't give you *ALL* the info you might want to know before purchasing. As for the NAS solution, I suppose you're probably right. They are focused on desktop computing. There are other options though. You could build one yourself, I guess. Or maybe someone on here knows of a place they can recommend to you.
19 • @ 17 • Thinkpenguin and "Free" stuff DavidEF (by Chanath on 2013-07-01 16:15:01 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Whether a program is open source or not, it was worked on by someone, spending his/her free time. If s/he gives it away to be hacked on, that becomes open source, and that would be his/her right to give away. If someone doesn't want to give his/her work as open source, but woul dgive it free, then s/he is being good to us, so it is not evil.
Some people are vegetarians, but wear leather shoes.
20 • YIKES! (by Nick on 2013-07-01 17:31:04 GMT from United Kingdom)
Some of thinkpenguin's prices are ridiculous!
Their "Wireless G USB Adaptor" costs $44.00. You can get a new one with the same chipset (Realtek RTL8187B) from an amazon third party seller for $8.01.
21 • Linux Market Share? (by Paul Salmon on 2013-07-01 18:05:06 GMT from United States)
I see conflicting statistics for Linux market share. According to W3 Schools, Linux has 4.9% market share:
But Netmarketshare says Linux only has 1.28% market share:
How can this be? Netmarketshare says Linux market share is 75% less than what W3 schools reports. Is it because of innacurate reporting? Or is it because Microsoft is giving payola to Netmarketshare as part of a conspiracy against Linux?
22 • @3 OpenSuse, Mint (by Vukota on 2013-07-01 18:48:26 GMT from United States)
Would you mind listing what kind of hardware you had issues with latest OpenSuse. I recently upgraded two old systems and only had issues with nvidia (required boot in rescue mode and nvidia driver post installation) and Flash (didn't support older CPUs and required manual downgrade to 10.3).
23 • Decent prices compared to Mac (by MZ on 2013-07-01 19:00:19 GMT from United States)
I think the real problem with prices for Linux hardware vendors comes from quick comparisons to the cheapest available Windows system with similar hardware. If you look on newegg, or probably most similar online PC & Mac sellers, you'll probably see that the prices from the bigger independent Linux PC makers are generally good compared to a Mac. If I spec out a 15.6 inch think penguin machine to be similar to a 2012 15.4" MacBook Pro I can get the same processor, RAM, HDD size, & an upgraded battery for $511 less. The down side is the screen & graphics chipset aren't as nice, but you're saving over $500. You can make a similar comparison between a ZaReason Vertix 530 & a new MacBook Pro with 'retina display' from newegg. You can get an identical graphics chipset, processor, etc., with a little less display resolution & less battery life for $623 less.
Apple can demand a high price based on name recognition, while Linux hardware retailers have to price above some comparable Windows machines because they can't buy in as much volume as the big PC makers. Personally I think the trade off that you take with someone like ZaReason are perfectly reasonable & I bought one of their Strata laptops. I think it's a good vale compared to a Mac, & it better fits my values.
24 • Datamation Mandriva forks roundup (by :wq on 2013-07-01 19:57:41 GMT from United States)
I understand the general governance structure of the OpenMandriva Association. However, there seems to be an awful lot of overlap between ROSA Desktop, Moondrake GNU/Linux and OpenMandriva as distributions. As a distribution, Unity Linux at least seems to have some distinctiveness to it, but at this point, what really sets OpenMandriva or Moondrake apart from ROSA Desktop (again, as distributions)? And if, in time, Mandriva SA ends up releasing its own (Cooker-based, not Cauldron-based) spin, what will set that apart? Not that it matters all that much, as there are a multitude of distros based on Ubuntu which bring nothing different to the table from their parent, and the Linux world seems to tolerate that extra clutter, but still, I can't help but question. Before a remnant of Mandriva (circa 2011) can really be seen as an alternative to past forks Mageia and PCLinuxOS, I think there must first be a paring down, from three very similar faces (ROSA, OpenMandriva, Moondrake), to one.
25 • Peppermint Installer Freezing (by SciFiDude79 on 2013-07-01 21:51:22 GMT from United States)
I'm a global moderator on the Peppermint forums and we've been discussing your problem with Ubiquity freezing during installation after selecting "3rd party software." I've been unable to reproduce this issue. I don't normally select this option, but I grabbed my Peppermint Four installation disc to see what would happen if I did.
I did several tests, including a regular hardware install, both with the network interface configured and without. Both times, it continued on to the next screen, either where you want to install the OS, or to the network configuration screen. I also tried twice on virtual machines using VirtualBox (the version in the Ubuntu 13.04 repositories that Peppermint Four uses.) Both with and without the network connection active, it continued as it should after selecting that option in the installer. By the way, all of this was done on a slow 1 GHz dual core laptop.
So, I don't know what to tell you there. My best guess is that something in your hardware configuration is causing the freeze, because that option also installs drivers. Also, it would be helpful to know if you're running 32-bit or 64-bit, I have the 64-bit .iso. It would be helpful if you would come by the forums and open a thread on this issue and maybe we can get to the bottom of this, if for no other reason than to tell others what not to do if they have this problem.
26 • @25 Peppermint (by Rev_Don on 2013-07-01 22:47:17 GMT from United States)
Considering the number of problems I've seen him have with other distros on that same machine over the past several months (as well as his desktop that he doesn't seem to be using at present) I tend to agree with you that there is some sort of hardware issue on his end. I really wish he would be more forthcoming about the actual hardware specs in detail (instead of his generic dual-core 2 GHz CPU, 4 GB of RAM, Intel video card, Intel wireless card which tells us very little of importance) as that might provide some insight as to what is going on. By not providing more details on his hardware it calls into question the validity of the reviews performed on it.
27 • Hostilities, jealousies and competitiveness: distro creators (by gregzeng on 2013-07-02 01:02:45 GMT from Australia)
Most distro reviewers have standard, unmodified as-new hardware, so rarely experience problems with distro installations. This week's review used the main standard process for a 'buntu distro. Because it not a Canonical endorsed disro, it offered variations from the 'norm': add-ons and unusual modifications.
The KDE 'buntus have a crazier installer, with sequence changes and wrongly sensing where my ISP is based by several hundred Kms. Both 'buntu installers do a far better job sensing hardware, especially my multiple drives and several partitions on these drives - than EVERY other distro installer.
Only the two 'buntu installers label the drives available in a way consistent to the usual Linux partition software, gparted. None of the Linux installers are as crazy and insensitive as those from Microsoft.
The above insights on distro installation needs better publicity to the hundreds of Linux distro creators. The hostilities, jealousies and competitiveness between the distro creators is very damaging to Linux IMHO. So many creative people seem thrilled at re-inventing the wheel, which in this case is - the procedures for installing Linux.
28 • RTL8187B? (by Magic Banana on 2013-07-02 01:41:01 GMT from Brazil)
@20: it is nowhere written it is the RTL8187B chipset... and a same model sometimes switch from a chipset to another. It is not rare. ThinkPenguin, on the other hand, guarantees that the hardware you get from them perfectly works with Linux-libre (hence with the 100% free GNU/Linux distributions such as Trisquel).
29 • Libre hardware for libre software, and printers (by Thomas Mueller on 2013-07-02 04:33:58 GMT from United States)
I would like to see a printer (Brother? Canon?), preferably laser multifunction/all-in-one, that does not require a proprietary plugin such as the HP LaserJet M1212nf MFP does. This has stopped me from being able to setup this printer under FreeBSD with ports, and NetBSD with pkgsrc so far, I have still to try with FreeBSD + Wine + MS-Windows drivers, and Linux (Gentoo?). One problem porting open-source Linux-native software to other (quasi-)Unix OSes is assumptions on file system structure that are not valid for the BSDs. The .ppd file in hplip package was not recognized; I don't know if that would be any better with Linux.
Regarding wrong assumptions on file-system structure, this also causes the System Rescue CD script to install to USB stick to be unworkable on FreeBSD. Certain files or directories are not there.
30 • Why So Expensive (by Serge on 2013-07-02 04:53:46 GMT from United States)
ThinkPenguin et al. are very low volume compared to mainstream merchants. Bigger merchants can sell products with less mark-up because they push enough volume to still make money. A company that does not sell that many units cannot survive off the same kind of mark-up.
When I buy a niche product, I expect to be paying a premium. Well, the same goes for products from niche merchants, too. Even when the actual components inside are commodity-grade.
Off-topic a little, but...
@23: Well, there's more to an electronics product than the specs of the little computer chips inside it. It's true that Apple is well-known for favoring products they can sell with high profit per unit, but I think ultimately their products are fairly priced. I think of it as a luxury car: there's more to it than just the engine, right? The leather trim, the way the rear view mirror feels when you try to adjust it, that kind of stuff. Personally, I've never owned an Apple product, but I understand the appeal, and don't think it's all about the brand image.
31 • Freed/Libre driver/firmware - there must be something better (by Fairly Reticent on 2013-07-02 04:57:19 GMT from United States)
Checking comments from online sellers may reveal good, bad, and ugly details about hardware listed as supported by freed/libre software, such as "out of stock", "device bricks easily", no entry since 2010/11/12, "just as bad under Windows", "only/worst model in product line". That doesn't sound like robust manufacturer support.
I suggest that price is less important than reliability and functionality, and warranty is most important. In the current tight economy, customers are becoming front-line product testers.
I appreciate tight control over anything proprietary or nosy; I prefer it.
I appreciate that the extreme of proprietary licensing is suicidal in the long term, but the extremism of demanding completely donated software licensing sabotages development and support as well. Platform-pioneering projects point in a more productive direction, and may one day render both proprietary and "libre" business models obsolete.
32 • @21 - Linux Market Share (by Serge on 2013-07-02 04:58:36 GMT from United States)
It's very hard to calculate any operating system's market share, and it's practically impossible to calculate the market share of operating systems like Linux that are typically installed by end-users rather than manufacturers. Netmarketshare and W3 Schools are only guessing. They base their estimates on trying to guess what operating system web site visitors are using, but first, it's not always possible to figure out what a visitor's operating system is, and second, they're not measuring visits to the same locations. In other words, they are using different techniques for their estimates, and that's why they are showing different numbers.
33 • @30 /fair price != value (by MZ on 2013-07-02 06:03:55 GMT from United States)
I'd agree that Apple is fair priced, but that doesn't mean it's a good value. Both Apple & luxury/sports cars are about equal parts brand image and features. If you look at a Ferrari & a 5.8 Mustang Cobra you can easily see that brand image plays into appeal. A typical Ferrari costs over $200,000, and is extremely capable in terms of handling, breaking, top speed, acceleration, & so on. Of course you could get a supercharged 662 HP Mustang for well under half the price of a typical Ferrari, & it would accelerate like a bat out of hell & go around 200 MPH for a top speed. The handling would be good, but the breaks will start to overheat & lose some power after a few hard laps, but hey it's a lot cheaper right? In terms of value the Mustang wins hands down every time; however, to most people the Ferrari still has much more appeal due to both exclusivity & image. The brand really means something to a lot of people, & I like the Ferrari brand as well, even if I think the value is horrible and would, if I ever had the money, buy a lot of other expensive cars like the 5.8 Mustang before I got a Ferrari.
Branding & image are everything to a lot of companies and the same is true of Apple. The added features like leather interiors are what creates a luxury car and what builds the brand, & with Apple its display resolution & other stuff. These things often add some sort of real functionality, but it is also often a look & feel that is used to differentiate & build a premium brand. After all, why would Apple go to the moronic length of attempting to patent the rounded edge if substance was all that mattered? Those who manage high end brands wisely will keep adding new & unique features to try to differentiate themselves, although some brands start to slip & just use looks & name to skate by. Apple may continue to do a good job of cultivating their brand for a long time to come & I think that is as important as anything else they do, but the brand means nothing to me so what they try to do looks as much like an image game as anything else. Of course if you know about the sweatshop conditions that things are built under & are aware of anti-competitive behavior your image of a company tends to change.
34 • TAILS distro (by Sanza on 2013-07-02 06:14:40 GMT from Russia)
I like the idea behind this distro, but I would like to have a version without The GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus, Audacity, PiTiVi. Couldn't OpenOffice stuff be replaced by Abiword and Gnumeric and other lightweight programs?
Also a remastering option would be nice too.
35 • reply (by greg on 2013-07-02 06:41:05 GMT from Slovenia)
15 • ThinkPenguin (by Magic Banana)
I know about AMD "issue". and in understand. Though i found i3 build with intel GPU for same price and i5 build for a little bit more. but that's the the point. the point is that such "freedom" Thing Penguin offers costs a lot. furthermore i bet they do not have any laptops with finger print reader security and such extras other have, so would it be right to say that with freedom also comes lower/older tech?
17 • Thinkpenguin and "Free" stuff (by DavidEF)
I belive the issue is volume. They do not have high enough volume to be able to offer lower price as HP can.
Also Zareason and System 76 - haven't owned one myself, however people often say they are well built. which can't be said for all HP's or Lenovos. They would often throw out cheaply build mashcine then peopel ocmplain of quality and then they would put out another model which is better built. so quality of these 500-800 eur mashcines is not consistent. while people claim System 76 delivers it always for example (again have not owned any myself or did any reviews and such to be able to confirm this). anyway, this could also help explain a bit higher price.
36 • Mir (by ange on 2013-07-02 07:40:17 GMT from Hungary)
Mir is not about speeding up things and eliminate Xorg's bottleneck. It's Canonical's next bad decision after creating own modern ui called Unity because personal conflicts between Gnome team and Shuttleworth. Tyranny is not always good for us. It's time to port Ubuntu based derivants for Debian or Fedora base!
37 • @33 - Value Is In The Eye Of The Beholder (by Serge on 2013-07-02 07:51:01 GMT from United States)
People associate different values with different factors depending on their own personal preference and specific use cases. In the Ferrari vs Mustang example, someone might consider break endurance to be very valuable, right? Likewise, I know a few people who consider a feature that allows them to trip over their laptop power cable without sending their laptop crashing to the floor to be very valuable.
I'm with you, though, on just how these kind of "upscale" features are what is used to build that brand image in the first place. I know owners of Apple products who were seduced by the brand itself. But I also know owners of Apple products who never cared about the Apple brand one bit.
Some people buy Apple for the brand, but some people buy Apple because they value the features.
38 • Freedom vs. A few boxes more per year (by Magic Banana on 2013-07-02 11:52:35 GMT from Brazil)
@35: As you write, only big vendors can afford little prices. By buying from freedom-respecting vendors, one supports the manufacturers that make hardware that work with Linux-libre, i.e., with free software only. With a higher demand, the offer for such hardware will grow as well and their prices will decrease. By accepting the use of proprietary drivers/firmware (because the device costs a few boxes less), the problem they raise (the users' essential freedoms are denied) is, instead, growing day after day.
Besides, I am not really note sure ThinkPenguin is that more expensive. Very cheap devices usually are of poor quality and must be changed more frequently.
39 • RE:Mir, let's wait and see.l (by LinuxMan on 2013-07-02 12:14:33 GMT from United States)
@36, LOL... You are joking, right? Just because you don't like Canonical or Unity doesn't mean that Canonical has made a bad decision. You need to do a little research on why Mir is being developed before you start making unfounded statements. Thinking anything else is just ridiculous and irrelevant. Nobody is being forced to use anything and that's the way it should be so there is no tyranny. Why do people always want to start condemning things before they even see how they work out? I'm not saying that it's good or bad and that's because I don't know yet. Can't we just wait and see what happens?
40 • Think Pemguin and Libre stuff (by Hoos on 2013-07-02 12:39:19 GMT from Singapore)
@37 - Exactly - different people value a particular thing or idea or principle differently. I am not a 100%-Libre Linux user but I respect those who are.
I'm not comfortable with people mocking their ideals or being dismissive of developers/companies who put together all-libre software/hardware. They are willing to stand by their beliefs even if it costs them, in money terms.
A recent Distrowatch issue was full of such comments and it really turned me off.
41 • Peppermint (by Nimbus on 2013-07-02 13:17:43 GMT from United States)
"The latest release of Peppermint, version 4, is based on Lubuntu 13.04"
In my opinion, basing anything on a distribution with a lifecycle as short as those from Canonical is silly. By the time you get it out the door, it will be unsupported.
At least LXLE chose an LTS version to base their work on.
42 • Mir (by ange on 2013-07-02 13:24:46 GMT from Hungary)
@39 "Thinking anything else is just ridiculous and irrelevant."
43 • @ 39 LinuxMan, Mir & Unity Next (by Chanath on 2013-07-02 13:58:10 GMT from Sri Lanka)
I wonder, what the distros of Ubuntu base are going to do, when Unity Next and Mir comes in? Oaky, they can still make distros of Ubuntu 13.10, because when Mir won't work, it'd fallback to X. Mir looks nice, with open windows staying put, not like in X. I have Unity Next installed too. Not all the apps work yet--still in development--, but that kind of DE is something I was looking forward to have. Well, Android came up with that first, Chromebook (or Chrome OS) does the same thing. Its easy, even in a desktop/laptop. Something to look forward in the near future. Once, such DEs come in, there won't be any going back. The Android users--mobile & touch etc--don't even know they are using Linux!
44 • @40 - Those Who Value Freedom (by Serge on 2013-07-02 14:35:19 GMT from United States)
I'm not a 100% free user either, but I agree with you about respecting those who insist on a 100% free solution. FSF / GNU / rms extremism is the reason why we have the FOSS choices that we do today. I get very disappointed whenever I see Linux users mocking the ideologies that are responsible for them having the freedoms they enjoy.
45 • mandriva disappearing from pcs (by jeferson on 2013-07-02 15:18:08 GMT from Brazil)
I strongly disagree with mandriva disappearing on the computers. If it was disappeared, then how these servers which distribute the mandriva 2012 developments (BERNIE LOMAX, TENACIOUS UNDERDOG) are still available to the public? Not to mention the supposedly new name MOONDRAKE in 64bit only. At least it leaves a legacy before if for some motive disappears. SERVERS AVAILABLE ARE :
46 • @21 (by Adam Williamson on 2013-07-02 15:56:36 GMT from Canada)
Different sampling methods. In particular, w3schools just measures its own traffic, and it's generally thought that traffic to a site like w3schools will be slightly skewed due to its user base. There are various other sources of usage statistics available, and w3schools is always the one that ranks Linux highest.
47 • Is today FC19 birth? (by dbrion on 2013-07-02 18:29:46 GMT from France)
Last week, I enjoyed reading a post of someone who tried successfully FC19 : I had some issues with the beta , though I found it usable and installed , and greater issues with the 22th june nightly spins (the snake installer worked almost fine, but it was impossible to set admin and user password ... and it therefore stopped installing -that was not that fine..- : there was another version a week later, but I preferred to wait 4 days more : it was (is?) a pity, as their live DVDs spins are very interesting : one can find (a little more than ) everything an electronic hobbyist may want, waiting to be installed).
48 • @47 (by Adam Williamson on 2013-07-02 19:41:03 GMT from Canada)
Yes, F19 came out today.
The nightly builds are not always an accurate reflection of Fedora status, especially during release freezes. We do a lot of the freeze exception work through a side repo which is pulled into the TC/RC builds but not the nightlies.
49 • @ 37 / features (by MZ on 2013-07-02 22:07:50 GMT from United States)
Yes that's what I was getting at. Of course some things like racing grade breaks are rarely if ever used by most car owners. I may go up north to the race track at Daytona on occasion, but I'm never the one doing laps around the track. By the same token, super high display resolution is nice, but does it really add any practical value to me personally? No, I can get by fine with out it & still feel good about my decision. In the case of my car, I do fine with my 4 cylinder Chevy, & I consider the 34 MPG fuel economy a feature that I can feel good about given the state of the environment. I also feel good about the OS on my ZaReason laptop, which both supports open source and comes with tons of available free as in beer software from the Mint/Ubuntu repos. Both the car & the laptop make saving money & doing what I consider the right thing very easy, even if the features aren't as nice as with some other products.
50 • Nightlies, pre, alpha, beta, rc, unstable, ... (by gregzeng on 2013-07-03 00:59:00 GMT from Australia)
@47, @48 In most productions, the point-naming system was an indication of stability. Stable used to be a whole number, followed by one decimal point. Even then, version 1.0 was highly suspect.
Linux upset this status quo by releasing so many mature products with a new version system "0.x.x.xx"
with poor indication on the stability or maturity. Hence the use of words, instead of numbers. The Kubuntu Alpha that I installed a few days ago is as reliable as any Kubuntu I have ever tried in the last several years. It auto-updates (with my permission), plus allows my own updates easily to any stable or unstable items. Best of all, every update I have tried seems to be reversible so far.
Removing both numerical and word-naming for software releases is now so unreliable, that it seems that the only unreliable releases are the daily updates.
51 • @ 48 • Adam Williamson Fedora 19 (by Chanath on 2013-07-03 02:08:52 GMT from Sri Lanka)
The new Fedora installer doesn't see the partitions of the hard disk. In the live session F19 looks nice, but if it cannot be installed, it would be a problem. Is there another way to install it?
52 • @51 (by Adam Williamson on 2013-07-03 04:44:16 GMT from Canada)
I've run several thousand live installs of F19, and it certainly sees the partitions of my hard disk. I can try and help you if you can provide a more useful report of the problem. Please describe *exactly* what you tried to do and *exactly* what happened, not what you _think_ the installer did.
53 • @ 52 Fedora 19 (by Chanath on 2013-07-03 06:39:08 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Burnt the iso to a usb stick. Used dd for burning it. Live iso worked well, booted up quite fast. Chose the live session, then clicked on install to hard disk. This is the Gnome edition. Installer came up, found all except the install media. Clicked on that and got 2 disks to chose, hard disk sda and usb stick sdb, but it didn't see any partitions inside the sda for me to choose a partition to install F19. I had a free partition formatted to ext4. It wanted to take on the whole sda, or part of it, if I choose an amount, but would erase the whole sda harddisk. My laptop is Lenovo T400, and everything gets installed in it. F18 was there once too. If there is a text version to install it, I'd try that, or I'd try to upgrade from F18. By the way, earlier F19 beta 1 (and Korora too), both Gnome & KDE didn't get installed too--the installer didn't even show up.
54 • @53 (by Adam Williamson on 2013-07-03 07:02:11 GMT from Canada)
If you want to specify a set of existing partitions as the target for an install you need to use custom partitioning mode (which should be one of the options you were presented with). The non-custom path (which we refer to as 'guided') is set up around installing into unpartitioned space: it requires that you either have sufficient unpartitioned space already, or requires you to delete or shrink existing partitions to provide some.
I'd like to make that workflow a tad more clear, but once you get the idea it makes sense.
So if you're happy with letting Fedora create its own partitions, just blow away the empty ones you provided for it and it'll auto-partition into the empty space. If you want to control the layout precisely, use the custom partitioning mode, find the partitions you pre-created in the tree view on the left hand side, select each one and enter a 'mount point' for it on the right hand side. You'll have to check the 'format' checkbox for at least the partition you set as / , I believe.
When you complete custom partitioning, it should print a summary of the actions it's going to take, so you can be sure it's going to do what you expect it to do. It won't actually *commit* any partitioning operation (or any other irreversible step) until you hit the Begin Installation button on the hub.
55 • @54 (by Adam Williamson on 2013-07-03 07:03:58 GMT from Canada)
Just to make sure something from @54 is entirely clear: if you use the non-custom workflow, Fedora will not delete or touch in any way any partitions except those you *explicitly choose* to delete or shrink in the 'Reclaim Space' dialog. It will perform those actions and then install into whatever unpartitioned space is available following the deletions/shrinks.
56 • @ 55 Adam W (by Chanath on 2013-07-03 07:21:43 GMT from Sri Lanka)
I never use guided installation. It is always custom or use existing partitions. I'd always check twice, before I commit that partition to be used for installation. F19 simply doesn't want to be installed. It sees sda as one whole partition, but not anything inside it. I put other ub sticks too to check up, and the F19 installer sees all those usb sticks, but nothing inside the sda hard disk. I have Ubuntu Saucy, Mageia, Calculate, Rosa etc, so it could be a fluke.
57 • re #11 Thinkpenguin website (by octathlon on 2013-07-03 13:51:58 GMT from United States)
My apologies. I was browsing on a tablet computer and for some reason it did not display the left column with the dropdown options, it only showed the text in the right hand column. I have now looked at it on a "real" computer and found the information.
58 • @56 (by Adam Williamson on 2013-07-03 15:13:37 GMT from Canada)
So you're selecting 'sda' as a target disk (make *sure* you're selecting it, see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F19_bugs#checkmark-disk-select ...) and going into custom partitioning, and on the left hand side of custom you don't see any partitions? That certainly sounds strange. If you don't mind, could you file a bug and attach the .log files from /tmp ?
59 • Peppermint (by Edoardo on 2013-07-03 15:40:43 GMT from Italy)
Got the same isuue on my Asus X53S laptop
60 • Inexpensive Linux Laptops (by penguinx64 on 2013-07-03 16:28:24 GMT from United States)
I've been looking for an inexpensive Linux laptop. I agree with the other posters that Linux laptops by System 76 and ZaReason are priced a bit high. I found an Asus 11.6 inch laptop that comes with Ubuntu, model X201E-DH01. It sells for about $300. I just ordered it today and will post my review when it arrives. I hear it comes with Ubuntu 10.04 and has some wifi problems. If you upgrade to 12.04 it's supposed to fix this problem. I'll give it a try, but I'll probably install Linux Mint 15 MATE instead. I've ordered Linux laptops from Dell in the past. They are usually priced under $500, but now the only one available is the Inspiron 13z developers edition for $1400. Ouch!
61 • RE:43, It should be me. (by LinuxMan on 2013-07-03 18:02:39 GMT from United States)
I should be the one apologizing. I must learn to control my passions more. I've often jumped the gun myself also. It's our human nature I guess. The future will be interesting.
62 • HW info for #22. Thanks for feedback to others. (by Bob on 2013-07-03 21:07:30 GMT from Austria)
Thank you for all your Mint feedbacks to post #3,
@22: You are right, my HW is not state of the art. (Samsung R5600 and Vaio "don't remember model", both Core 2 Duo, Nvidia, 4 & 2 GB RAM). According to some post read during the past weeks it seems that the latest OpenSuse version did not just disagree with my hardware. Still thinking to give them another chance as soon as 13.1 is ready.
63 • FOSS Force GPL Poll ... interesting (by gregzeng on 2013-07-03 23:59:33 GMT from Australia)
Looking forward to the week that Distrowatch can run its own polls.
Which of the following best describes your thoughts about the GPL?
It represents a deeper philosophy that can be used as a guide in all areas of
life. - 70% ( 56 votes )
It's a business model that can be employed in other areas of the economy. - 16% ( 13 votes )
Other - 6% ( 5 votes )
It represents a dangerous attempt to introduce communist ideas into Western corporate thought. - 5% ( 4 votes )
It's a business model that can be applied to copyrighted material only. - 3% ( 2 votes )
It's a business model that can be applied to software only. - 0% ( 0 votes )
Total Answers 80
Total Votes 80
64 • @#3, Mint KDE LTS (by Elcaset on 2013-07-04 00:20:48 GMT from United States)
@#3, Mint KDE LTS is my favorite version of Mint. I've been using it for several years.
65 • @63 FOSS Force article "What’s Your Take on the GPL?" (by Somewhat Reticent on 2013-07-04 01:40:49 GMT from United States)
The article discussing this topic is at
(My entry, like those of the thoughtful minority, falls under "Other")
I suggest Distrowatch is doing well with its current focus.
66 • Peppermint, Fedora... (by MiRa on 2013-07-04 02:15:28 GMT from Spain)
Sounds interesting. But... is a *buntu... and I'm reticent to infect my machines with this big sudo virus that never should appear in the GNU/Linux world. Better Windows than *bu...
If so smart and skilled, why the developers aren't taking directly Debian as base?
I gave it a try in live mode and looks quite good, video card and wifi connection - OK, faster boot time... Wonder if there are Skype, jitsi, Opera for example available to install.
Will try an installation to see how it'll work...
67 • @66 (by Adam Williamson on 2013-07-04 04:37:34 GMT from Canada)
I've no idea what jitsi is, but you can install Skype and Opera from upstream on Fedora. I don't know if there are repos that include them.
68 • @60 Inexpensive Linux Laptops (by Peter Besenbruch on 2013-07-04 08:06:28 GMT from United States)
"I've been looking for an inexpensive Linux laptop. I agree with the other posters that Linux laptops by System 76 and ZaReason are priced a bit high. I found an Asus 11.6 inch laptop that comes with Ubuntu, model X201E-DH01. It sells for about $300. I just ordered it today and will post my review when it arrives. I hear it comes with Ubuntu 10.04 and has some wifi problems. If you upgrade to 12.04 it's supposed to fix this problem."
I purchased and set up three of the Asus machines. They come with Ubuntu 12.04. For a while, the advice was to upgrade to 12.10 to fix the wireless (now I assume you update to 13.04).
A couple of comments: With the 3.2.40 kernel on Ubuntu 12.04, my wireless issues went away. Debian Wheezy (with kernel 3.2.41) has no issues with Wireless. Kernel version 3.9 has also hit Debian backports.
The formatting of the hard drive is a bit strange. Roughly 100G is dedicated to an unmounted, NTFS partition. Unity and XFCE do not play nice together. You get power management issues if you run XFCE. Ubuntu doesn't hibernate by default. Hibernation, if activated, should work fine. It certainly does with Debian.
One machine developed wireless connection issues that I traced to a loose antenna wire.
This is an OK machine the way Asus set it up. It's a very good machine, if you install Debian.
From a hardware perspective, you can change out the wireless card (an Atheros 9k device). Wireless runs without additional firmware. Bluetooth requires the firmware-atheros package. You can also exchange the 320G hard drive for another 7mm thick drive. The CPU is an Intel Celeron running at 1.1gHz. It's somewhat faster than your basic netbook CPU. If you run VirtualBox, the Celeron is about 5x faster.
The screen is 1366x768 and driven by an Intel graphics 2000 chipset (we're talking Sandy Bridge here). The touchpad is one of those buttonless models. Not my favorite. The Keyboard doesn't bounce, or flex. The Webcam is 1.3mpixel. Sound is surprisingly good. You get 4G of RAM. It's not replaceable, or upgradable. Ports include a USB3, 2 USB2 , VGA and HDMI, SDCard, and Ethernet. There is also a combo headphone/microphone plug.
The battery specs suck, but I still get over 4 hours. The battery, like so much else on this machine, is not replaceable.
That's what you get for $300 (including shipping). The Linux boutique vendors cannot touch this price, but good luck finding something this low spec from them. Low spec, or not, the Asus will easily handle HD streaming video. Just don't try a lot of gaming.
69 • 67 • @66 (by Adam Williamson) (by MiRa on 2013-07-04 09:01:00 GMT from Spain)
As there is no Yahoo Messenger for Linux I'm using Jitsi to comunicate with my Yahoo contacts (it handle not only Yahoo but a few more VoIP clients).. PCLinuxOS have this in their repos.
Why Fedora cannot have Opera and Skype in it's repos? :(
70 • RE 56 : FC and sda partitions (by dbrion on 2013-07-04 11:24:20 GMT from France)
Well, I am rather glad to have some good news about FC19 (BTW, they can be very stringent w/r non free software; there is already much more software than an individual can need).
I never had issues, as far as I could test, with partition recognition (from a live CD -for LXDE- or DVD (for FC Electronic Lab) one can open a terminal and type "sudo fdisk -l"; then, at install, there were no incosistencies with the partitions they had recognised -and, AFAIK, I had some idea of /dev/sda structure!)
71 • jitsi (by gre on 2013-07-04 12:31:19 GMT from Slovenia)
hee i will give that a shot.
otherwise Gyachee Improved has best compatibility with Yahoo. make sure you install the right one.
Skype and Opera are proprietary and closed source programmes.
72 • RE:66, Very strange statement. (by LinuxMan on 2013-07-04 15:10:49 GMT from United States)
Statement from MiRa, "But... is a *buntu... and I'm reticent to infect my machines with this big sudo virus that never should appear in the GNU/Linux world."
Very strange statement coming from someone who seems to be hooked on closed source proprietary programs. Not logical. Very strange indeed.
73 • If you need help understanding how to install Fedora... (by eco2geek on 2013-07-04 17:16:10 GMT from United States)
For anyone having trouble understanding Fedora's installer, go to Korora's website and watch their installation video:
It will walk you through a Fedora installation. (And, I must say, Chris Smart's accent is lovely and the background music is soothing. :-) Highly recommended for those installing Fedora for the first time.
(Korora is a Fedora-based live DVD that includes a bunch of software that a default Fedora live DVD doesn't, for various legal and space-related reasons. Otherwise, it seems to stick pretty close to its Fedora roots.)
74 • @72 LinuxMan (by MiRa on 2013-07-04 19:00:10 GMT from Spain)
For me - repeat: for me - free software means free of cost, gratis.
If someone produces software and is bringing it out in the market allowing it to be used freely (free of cost, gratis) without any restriction or cost I don't care if is free or closed source.
Speaking about Opera and Skype (but there are many other software, apps in this situation) these are offered freely, free of cost, without any restriction. So, I don't understand why can't be included in Fedora for example.
As for "free" alternatives, can someone tell me what alternative is available to comunicate with my familiars and friends who have Skype accounts?
So, the "freedom" is very restrictive!... :D
75 • @73 (by Adam Williamson on 2013-07-04 20:12:23 GMT from Canada)
Good idea. There is also the installation guide, which is very well written:
but some people just seem to be allergic to documentation :(
76 • @69 (by Adam Williamson on 2013-07-04 20:13:27 GMT from Canada)
"Why Fedora cannot have Opera and Skype in it's repos? :("
77 • @72 @66 (by Adam Williamson on 2013-07-04 20:17:55 GMT from Canada)
Oh, and MiRa, I'd agree with @66: I don't see what you think is wrong with sudo. sudo is a perfectly good piece of code, widely used outside of Ubuntu. It's not Ubuntu-specific and there's nothing evil about it.
"As for "free" alternatives, can someone tell me what alternative is available to comunicate with my familiars and friends who have Skype accounts?"
Why not use a F/OSS peer-to-peer technology, which will be open to more people, and less likely to be subject to interception?
78 • c72.re.c66 "Very strange statement"; c74 "free" (by Somewhat Reticent on 2013-07-04 22:52:11 GMT from United States)
72 Humor is often misunderstood, especially dry sarcasm delivered straight.
74 Many are glad when the first fix is free ...
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