| DistroWatch Weekly
|DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 504, 22 April 2013
Welcome to this year's 16th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! The Enlightenment window manager might not be to everybody's taste, but it does have a decent following among the users who prefer a lightweight yet good-looking desktop with plenty of unusual effects. In today's world of free operating systems Bodhi Linux is probably the most popular project that attempts to integrate Enlightenment with one of the big Linux distributions. How successful is it? Jesse Smith takes a look at Bodhi's latest release to find out. In the news section, Ubuntu prepares for a busy week of "Raring Ringtail" releases that will include two new official flavours, Debian announces a target release day for "Wheezy", Slackware considers its option for main software components as it prepares for a new stable release, and Fuduntu contemplates its future after the project's founder calls it quits. Also in this issue, a link to an excellent article explaining how to build custom ports for OpenBSD, a Questions & Answers section that deals with opening large files without slowing down the system, and the usual regular sections, including the addition of Ubuntu GNOME into the DistroWatch database. Happy reading!
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (19MB) and MP3 (36MB) formats
|Feature Story (by Jesse Smith)
First look at Bodhi Linux 2.3.0
Bodhi Linux is a Linux distribution which uses Ubuntu's long term support releases as its base. Upon this stable base, which will be supported for five years, the Bodhi developers add the Enlightenment desktop and up to date applications. The result is a small, very fast Linux distribution which, thanks to the malleability of Enlightenment, sports a highly flexible interface. Bodhi can run on three different architectures (both 32-bit and 64-bit x86 along with ARM) and, according to the project's website, Bodhi can be run on personal computers with just 128MB of RAM. The project has an attractive website which contains a good deal of useful documentation.
I downloaded the Bodhi Linux live CD which is approximately 570 MB in size. Booting off this CD brings up a menu that allows us to launch the Bodhi live environment in regular mode or in one of two safe graphic modes. The operating system boots up quickly and brings us to a graphical interface where we shown two configuration screens. The first screen asks what style we would like for our graphical interface. Possible options include Desktop, Laptop, Bare, Fancy and Tablet. Clicking on any of these options shows a small preview of how our desktop would be laid out with the given option. Mostly these different styles deal with the positioning of desktop components and, in some cases, the number of components or widgets displayed on the desktop. The second configuration screen asks us to select a theme for the desktop. Where the style deals with the positioning of components, the theme deals with colours and the desktop's background. Again we are able to see previews to help us make the selection. Once this second screen is dismissed we are shown the Enlightenment desktop. Each interface style is different, but I found I liked the Desktop arrangement best as it provided a nice, traditional layout.
Bodhi Linux 2.3.0 - project documentation and system installer
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Bodhi Linux uses the Ubuntu installer which has a straight forward graphical interface. It starts off by letting us select our preferred language and we are shown a link which will open a local copy of the project's documentation. Next we get into partitioning the local hard drive and I found the installer supports a wide range of file systems. On the following screen we confirm our time zone and then confirm our keyboard's layout. The final screen of the installer asks us to create a user account and set the account's password. The installation completed quickly and, when it was finished, the installer offered to reboot the computer for me.
Running Bodhi Linux from the local hard disk quickly brings us to a graphical login screen. The first time we sign in using our freshly created user account we are again asked to select a desktop style and theme we like. Enlightenment provides an interface which is very light on memory and CPU usage, making it highly responsive. In addition, Enlightenment, by default, is quite dynamic. Window focus follows the mouse pointer and moving the pointer to the side of the screen switches to a different virtual workspace. Opening a terminal reveals a neon bright blinking cursor and notifications are accompanies by a brief red flash on the screen. This was all a bit loud for my taste and I headed for the Enlightenment settings panel to make adjustments. Enlightenment is highly flexible and allows the user to configure practically every aspect of the interface. There are many options and interface adjustments available and one could easily waste an afternoon trying them all. I found a combination of settings I liked and settled into my normal work routine.
While Enlightenment has all the options and eye candy we might want, Bodhi takes a surprisingly conservative approach when it comes to the software provided in the default installation. We're provided with the Midori web browser and Network Manager for configuring our Internet connection. There is a text editor, an archive manager, a file browser and a virtual terminal. Behind the scenes the Linux kernel, version 3.8, keeps the system running. This makes for a small range of functionality out of the box.
Bodhi Linux 2.3.0 - changing settings and browsing package packages
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Bodhi Linux comes with the Synaptic package manager to help us install software and apply updates. Synaptic isn't the newest or most attractive application available for working with packages, but it does work quickly and it is quite flexible. We are able to set up batches of add/remove actions to be performed on packages and Synaptic is not only reliable, it also does a good job of keeping us informed as to what actions it is performing. Less experienced users will appreciate a second method of package management provided by Bodhi's App Centre. Selecting the "Add Software" option from the distribution's application menu opens the Midori web browser and brings us to an on-line app portal built into the Bodhi project's website. This App Centre lets us browse through lists of applications or we can search for items by name. As an example, if we want to find a FTP client, searching for "FTP" brings up the gFTP client and Filezilla as possible solutions. Besides having many useful standalone applications the App Centre also includes bundles. These bundles allow us to install groups of popular software programs. The "Nikhila Application Set" bundle includes many commonly used programs, including the VLC media player, the Thunderbird e-mail client LibreOffice and Firefox. Both single applications and entire bundles can be added to our system by simply clicking an "Install" button on the package's web page.
I ran the latest version of Bodhi Linux on a desktop machine (dual-core 2.8 GHz CPU, 6 GB of RAM, Radeon video card, Realtek network card) and found the distribution performed very well. The system was surprisingly fast, my screen was set to its maximum resolution and the operating system remained stable throughout the week. I had a minor annoyance with sound at first. By default sound was muted on my desktop machine and all the software and hardware volume controls were set to minimum. This meant that simply turning up the main mixer control on the desktop wouldn't produce sound. Apart from the desktop machine, I also tried running Bodhi in a VirtualBox virtual environment. Here the distribution again showed itself to be fast and everything worked smoothly. Bodhi only used approximately 80MB of memory, living up to the project's promise of running smoothly with less than 128MB of RAM.
Bodhi Linux 2.3.0 - downloading software bundles from App Centre
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It took me a while to get the Enlightenment desktop arranged the way I wanted it and a little longer to download all of the software I wanted to use. Luckily Bodhi makes both of these tasks easy. I feel it is important for a distribution to either provide the experience its users want out of the box or be easy to configure. I found Bodhi fits nicely into the second group, providing a responsive environment, lots of desktop configuration tools and an easy to use software portal. What was especially nice was that once the system had everything I wanted Bodhi remained fast and attractive. On a modern system it is remarkable how responsive the interface is. As Bodhi provides the latest versions of most end-user applications we have a good deal of functionality with all of the modern conveniences once a few bundles have been downloaded.
In the past I've been tempted to simply view Bodhi as another Ubuntu remix. We have Kubuntu and Xubuntu which present KDE and Xfce, respectively, on top of the Ubuntu base and it is tempting to look upon Bodhi as the Enlightenment Ubuntu remix. However, such an assessment would overlook two things. The first is the work Bodhi's team has put into the end-user experience, especially with regards to package management. The Synaptic package manager, while robust, is not particularly user friendly and the Ubuntu Software Centre is too heavy to fit in with Bodhi's approach. The Bodhi team deals with this issue quite nicely by adopting a light web browser and web-based package management. It's quite easy to find and download both individual applications and bundles of software. The other feature I think Bodhi brings, perhaps uniquely, to the table is a polished Enlightenment desktop.
To be perfectly frank, I don't like Enlightenment. I feel its approach is awkward and outdated. That being said, if I have to use Enlightenment, Bodhi's treatment of the interface is by far the best I have seen. The defaults, themes and documentation are of huge benefit to Enlightenment users and Bodhi has a much nicer implementation of Enlightenment than its parent, Ubuntu, ships. Bodhi is very bare bones, we start with a pretty sparse foundation and this might turn off some users (especially those with slow network connections), but the performance and the tiny memory footprint more than make up for any short comings. I think Bodhi makes for an attractive option for people running older computers or for those who want to squeeze the most performance possible out of their operating system.
|Miscellaneous News (by Ladislav Bodnar)
Ubuntu 13.04 features, Debian 7.0 release date, Slackware updates, future of Fuduntu, OpenBSD ports
Ever since the launch of Ubuntu back in 2004, the distribution's stable releases have always arrived at regular 6-month intervals - usually in April and October, with the only exception being Ubuntu 6.06 which was released in June. This predictability is one of the standard features of Ubuntu. Now, as we find ourselves at the end of April 2013, we can look forward to another busy week of Ubuntu releases. What can we expect in "Raring Ringtail"? OMG! Ubuntu! summarises the ten best Ubuntu 13.04 features - from social lens to window snapping: "Next week sees the release of Ubuntu 13.04 - the latest iteration of the world's most popular Linux distribution. But what can you expect to find in it? Unlike the last few releases Ubuntu 13.04 features few dramatic changes, instead bringing some much need polish and performance-boosts." The article is accompanied by screenshots and videos to illustrate some of the subtle improvements in the new release.
Ubuntu 13.04 - arriving on Thursday, 25 April
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On a related note, Ars Technica has published a hands-on review of Dell XPS Linux ultrabook, one of the very few mainstream computer systems that ship with Ubuntu (version 12.04, to be precise). While author Lee Hutchinson expresses the usual thoughts of doubt over the "readiness" of Linux for the desktop that are so common in the mainstream tech media, he also concludes that the ultrabook is rather unremarkable in the sense that it "just works": "If you're content to stay with Ubuntu 12.04, then the XPS 13 Developer Edition is an absolute 'just works' experience. Dell has done it -- and has done it right -- taking its work and contributing it all back upstream for the betterment of the community. The company has elected to put a friendly Linux distro on an attractive piece of hardware with good specs, including a beautiful display and a quick SSD. Moreover, the price isn't at all unreasonable."
* * * * *
Unlike Ubuntu, the Debian project doesn't subscribe to the philosophy of fixed release schedules, choosing instead to release the product when it's ready (i.e. without any known show-stopper bugs). Still, even Debian isn't immune to planning; after all, producing a stable release of the world's largest Linux distribution does need some coordinating and plenty of internal communication. So, as of last week, we have a "target day" for the release of Debian GNU/Linux 7.0 "Wheezy": "Once again, and hopefully for the final time for this cycle, we are writing to you with a release update. We now have a target date of the weekend of 4th/5th May for the release. We have checked with core teams, and this seems to be acceptable for everyone. This means we are able to begin the final preparations for a release of Debian 7.0 - 'Wheezy'. The intention is only to lift the date if something really critical pops up that is not possible to handle as errata, or if we end up technically unable to release that weekend (e.g. a required machine crashes or d-i explodes in a giant ball of fire)."
Debian GNU/Linux 7.0 - almost ready
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Slackware Linux is another distribution that doesn't plan its stable releases. That said, the increased activity on its development changelog recently (as well as some hints when reading between the lines) does indicate the imminence of a new beta cycle. Last week the changelog brought us Patrick Volkerding's commentary explaining the preferences for certain versions of important system components, including the kernel, GCC and X.Org: "1. Linux kernel - stick with 3.8 for now. It remains a concern that the NVIDIA 6150SE and nouveau could be broken with kernels above 3.6.1, however. Does anyone know if the blob fixes the issues? If not, there may still be a compelling reason to switch to the 3.4 kernel for the release. 2. GCC - I really have not run into any compiler bugs with this. There was a single report of issues with the radeon R300 when the kernel was compiled with 4.8.0, and it wasn't reported on any bug trackers or anywhere else. 3. X.Org Server - here, it does appear that going with the better supported branch (1.13.x) is a good idea to help support external drivers."
* * * * *
The unexpected death of Fuduntu in its current form, as noted in the project's most recent blog post, epitomises the trouble with "forking" a major Linux distribution by an individual (or a small group). Initially it doesn't take much to download the upstream code and promise to deliver regular updates. However, sooner or later the GCC compiler is likely to start spitting out errors and that's when despair tends to dishearten even the most dedicated developer. Fuduntu is hardly the first distribution that has been driven to the ground by the slow erosion of the initial enthusiasm; after all, the DistroWatch's discontinued distribution list now stands at 360. Still, Fuduntu might yet survive, probably without its founder and possibly in a very different form, but there is still hope. Lee Ward explains the future of Fuduntu in "this interview at My Linux Rig": "Those of us moving on to the new distro have been discussing and evaluating our options. Right now, we are leaning heavily on going with an openSUSE base. Our developers have been working with openSUSE the last few days to see how viable it will be and things are going well. While a final decision has not been made, that is how we are all leaning at the moment."
* * * * *
OpenBSD plays an important role in the open-source ecosystem as a project with very strict security guidelines. But as always, security might occasionally be in conflict with flexibility, e.g. when you'd like to install an application that is not in OpenBSD ports (perhaps due to lack of manpower to package it or to audit its source code). What can you do? Simple. Write an OpenBSD port yourself. OpenBSD developer Peter Hansteen explains how in "You've Installed It. Now What? Packages!": "The ports system consists of a set of 'recipes' to build third party software to run on your system. Each port supplies its own Makefile, whatever patches are needed in order to make the software build, and optionally package message files with information that will be displayed when the software has been installed. So to build and install a piece of software using the ports system, you follow a slightly different procedure than the classical fetch - patch - compile cycle. You will need to install the ports tree, either by unpacking ports.tar.gz from your CD set or by checking out an updated version via cvs." This is an updated article that originally appeared in BSD Magazine in 2008.
|Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith)
Opening large files without slowing down the system
Taming-textzilla asks: I deal with large text files (often hundreds of megabytes in size) and opening these files in a text editor can make my system really slow. How can I view massive log files without slowing down my system?
DistroWatch answers: Depending on which text editor you are using to view the files the editor may be creating a backup of the existing file or, in the case of the Vim text editor, it may be creating a swap file to track changes. Both of these features assist in the recovery of data should unwanted changes be made or should the editor crash while you are using it. Alternatively it is possible the file being opened is so large it's causing the operating system to move data from memory into swap space. Whatever is causing poor system performance there are ways to view log files (even huge ones) in a way which won't bring the operating system to its knees.
The first thing you might consider trying is splitting the existing file into smaller chunks. Let us assume for a moment that you have one large text file called mylog.txt and this file contains one million lines of text. We can break this file into smaller pieces using the split command. In this example we make smaller copies of mylog.txt and each of these smaller pieces contains 10,000 lines of text:
split -l 10000 mylog.txt tinylog
The above command results in a collection of smaller files named tinylogaa, tinylogab, tinylogac, etc. Each file contains 10,000 lines of text. The original large log file is left untouched. These smaller log files can be opened in whichever text editor you prefer.
Alternatively we might consider rotating the log files more often. Most programs which use log files provide scripts to rotate the logs every day/week/month in order to avoid the files becoming too large. It might be easier to manage these massive log files if they are rotated more frequently. This will result in more log files being generated, but each one will be of a more manageable size. The directory /etc/logrotate.d will, on most distributions, hold these scripts which will contain the rules governing the rotation of log files. For details on how to get the best results from these rotation scripts I recommend reading your distribution's manual page on the logrotate program.
If you don't mind viewing log files from the command line there are several additional options. One is to use a read-only utility to view the log file. The less command is ideal for viewing and searching through logs as it allows us to browse forward and backward through the text and will not make changes to the file. The less command can be used as shown below and pressing the 'q' key closes the less browser:
The Vim editor is available to users of almost all distributions and can be ordered to run without creating a swap file for recovery. Assuming we are not planning to edit the file this is a good way to open the file without creating additional files or using too much memory. To run vim without creating a swap file we can use the "-n" command line option:
vim -n mylog.txt
In addition you can use the sed command along with the less command to display specific sections of the log file. For instance, if we wanted to view lines 10,000 through to 20,000 we could run the following command which will print out only the lines we request and let us browse those lines using the less command:
sed -n '10000,20000p' mylog.txt | less
Last, but not least, the grep utility is useful if we know what we are looking for, but not where in the file the important information is. For example, if we only want to see lines in our log file which contain the word "error" we can tell grep to print those lines only:
grep -i error mylog.txt
In case the grep command prints out more lines than we can see on the screen at one time we can turn to the less command again to buffer the text and let us read it one page at a time:
grep -i error mylog.txt | less
Another possibility is the large file you are viewing is stored on a network share and is being transferred from the remote machine to your own computer's memory. This can be a lengthy process. If you find you are trying to view large files on a network share it may be beneficial to copy these files to your local computer to cut down on unnecessary network traffic.
|Released Last Week
Chris Buechler has announced the release of pfSense 2.0.3, an updated version of the FreeBSD-based operating system for firewalls: "I'm happy to announce the release of pfSense 2.0.3. This is a maintenance release with some bug and security fixes since 2.0.2 release. You can upgrade from any previous release to 2.0.3. Changelog: updated to OpenSSL 0.9.8y; fix XSS in IPsec log possible from users possessing shared key or valid certificate; fix obtaining DNS servers from PPP type WANs (PPP, PPPoE, PPTP, L2TP); fix captive portal redirect URL trimming; voucher sync fixes; captive portal pruning/locking fixes; fix problem with fastcgi crashing which caused CP issues on 2.0.2; clear the route for an OpenVPN endpoint IP when restarting the VPN, to avoid a situation where a learned route from OSPF or elsewhere could prevent an instance from restarting properly...." See the detailed release announcement for a complete list of security and bug fixes.
Rebellin Linux 1.5
Utkarsh Sevekar has announced the release of Rebellin Linux 1.5, a set of commercial, desktop-oriented distribution based on Debian "Stable" (the "Synergy" edition) and Debian "Unstable" (the "Adrenalin" variant): "It gives us immense pleasure to announce the latest Rebellin Linux release - version 1.5. Although this is a minor version update, it brings a host of fixes and upgrades to both of the Rebellin Linux flavours. The Rebellin Project was started to provide top-notch email support at affordable price so that everybody can enjoy a reliable distribution designed for daily use. A lot of people shy away from Linux due to lack of personal level support and that's the niche Rebellin fills up! While Rebellin is a brilliantly crafted distribution suitable for users of any skill level, it is perfectly suited for newbies just entering the Linux world as it comes with personal email support that lasts for the lifetime of the product!" Read the rest of the release announcement for a list of improvements, fixes and known issues.
Stephan Raue has announced the release of OpenELEC 3.0.1, an updated version of the specialist Linux distribution built around XBMC, the open-source entertainment media hub: "The OpenELEC team is proud to release OpenELEC 3.0.1. Changelog: update to XBMC 12.1.6 (XBMC Frodo 12.1 with many bug fixes which will be released with the upcoming XBMC Frodo 12.2), this includes various fixes for Audio Engine, Raspberry Pi and other; update RPi patches; update to Boost 1_53_0; update to DVB firmware 0.0.33; update to alsa-lib 1.0.27; update to GCC 4.7.3; update to systemd 200; added support for TechniSat SkyStar S2 card with CX24120-13Z front-end; XBMC - readd Hi10p patches; Linux kernel - add ALSA upstream patches, backported from 3.8.7; Linux kernel add network related upstream patches, backported from 3.8.7; fix for issue #1987, the problem exists in the jmicron 188.8.131.52 source...." Here is the full release announcement.
ROSA 2012 RP2 "Enterprise Desktop"
Konstantin Kochereshkin has announced the availability of an updated release of ROSA 2012 "Enterprise Desktop" edition, code name "Marathon" and supported with security updates for five years. From the release announcement: "ROSA is pleased to announce the second update pack for ROSA Marathon 2012 operating system with an extended (5 years) period of technical support. The pack includes the up-to-date (as of April 2013) versions of applications as well as critical security fixes and updated kernel with extended hardware support. Also, we have re-branded this update pack, which is now called ROSA Enterprise Desktop X1. 'Marathon' is kept as a short code name synonym for the enterprise desktop product line. Marathon RP 2 contains most important backports from ROSA Desktop Fresh development branch that proved to be reliable and stable."
Manjaro Linux 0.8.5 "KDE", "LXDE", "MATE"
The Manjaro development team has announced the release of three community editions of Manjaro Linux 0.8.5, featuring the MATE, LXDE and KDE desktop environments: "We are happy to announce three new Manjaro community editions featuring MATE 1.6, LXDE 0.5.5 and KDE 4.10.2. The community editions of Manjaro Linux are released as bonus flavours in addition to those officially supported and maintained by the Manjaro team, provided that the time and resources necessary are available to do so. Yusuf and Cumali from Manjaro Turkey released Manjaro KDE 2013.04 based on Manjaro stable repositories. It features the brand new KDE SC 4.10.2 point release." Read the full release announcement for more information and screenshots.
Scientific Linux 6.4 "Live"
Urs Beyerle has announced the availability of live CD and DVD images with the recently released Scientific Linux 6.3: "Scientific Linux 6.4 LiveCD, LiveMiniCD and LiveDVD are officially released. They are available for 32-bit and 64-bit systems and come with following window managers: LiveMiniCD - IceWM, LiveCD - GNOME, LiveDVD - GNOME, KDE, IceWM. Software was added from RPMForge, EPEL and ELRepo to include additional file system support (NTFS, ReiserFS), secure network connection (OpenVPN, VPNC, PPTP), file system tools (dd_rescue, ddrescue, GParted, gDisk), and better multimedia support (GStreamer, FFmpeg, Flash plugin). Software: Linux kernel 2.6.32, X.Org Server 1.13.0, GNOME 2.28, Firefox 17.0.5, IceWM 1.2.37, LibreOffice 3.4.5, KDE 4.3.4." More details in the release announcement.
Calculate Linux 13.4
Alexander Tratsevskiy has announced the release of Calculate Linux 13.4, a Gentoo-based distribution for desktops (with KDE, GNOME 2 or Xfce), servers and media centres. The biggest news is the removal of GNOME 3 and the assertion that GNOME will no longer be supported in future Calculate releases. From the release announcement: "We are proud to announce the final release of Calculate Linux 13.4. Main changes: UEFI support added on 64-bit systems; hibernation is TuxOnIce by default; BFQ I/O scheduler supported; Calculate Utilities can now backup configuration files; the installer provides more advanced auto-partitioning options; networked Linux clients should now boot faster when the network is down; the IRC client in CLDG and CLDX is HexChat instead of XChat; CLD now uses GParted as the GUI partition manager...."
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
|Upcoming Releases and Announcements
Summary of expected upcoming releases
|DistroWatch.com News (by Ladislav Bodnar)
New distributions added to database|
* * * * *
New distributions added to waiting list
- PALADIN. PALADIN is an Ubuntu-based live Linux distribution that simplifies the process of creating forensic images in a forensically sound manner. PALADIN was designed with the understanding that many of those tasked with creating forensic images are not comfortable with using the command line but still want to use the power of Linux.
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DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 29 April 2013. To contact the authors please send email to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, suggestions and corrections: news, donations, distribution submissions, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (feedback and suggestions: podcast edition)
If you've enjoyed this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly, please consider sending us a tip.
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1 • Just 2 be the 1st (by Wolf on 2013-04-22 09:01:55 GMT from Germany) |
Great Review on Bodhi but what do you mean with Enlightenment being akward and outdated, cause I don't get that
2 • Is Bodhi appropriate for old computers? (by koro on 2013-04-22 09:26:51 GMT from Belgium)
I doubt it. Being based in a recent Ubuntu base system and having a very recent kernel, some old (and not so old) hardware will be deprecated. Namely hardware with buggy BIOSes, firmware and drivers, which are able to run in Linux only thanks to certain workarounds introduced at a certain point. Once the workaround is removed from the code, bye-bye Linux compatibility.
3 • bodhi (by meanpt on 2013-04-22 09:37:17 GMT from Portugal)
I'm an assumed and declared bodi'st and this review do makes justice to the efforts of the bodhi's team. Enlightenment isn't outdated at all and it provides for a complete and beautiful desktop experience without the bloat. To install and run bodhi you only need a 4 GB sdcard and still experience a faster desktop than any other hd installed bloated distro.
4 • Fuduntu (by Wine Curmudgeon on 2013-04-22 10:08:45 GMT from United States)
Fuduntu was an admirable effort, though whenever I tried to use it something always seemed amiss whether updating or installation. Hopefully, it will return in its new incarnation and find its niche.
5 • at #2: Bodhi or Damn Small Linux for old computers (by Elcaset on 2013-04-22 10:22:34 GMT from United States)
To be compatible with old hardware, you do have to use an older kernel. I'm glad that the Damn Small Linux distro has been revived, because it uses an older kernel. Also, it's Debian based, so it benefits from those nice, huge repositories.
6 • Fuduntu (by speedyx on 2013-04-22 10:27:21 GMT from Romania)
openSUSE Tumbleweed is a very good base. I used it in the last years with satisfaction like the one produced using my favorite archlinux. I hope Fuduntu will remain a rolling release oriented to laptops.
7 • Fuduntu (by musty on 2013-04-22 10:39:43 GMT from France)
the developers of Fuduntu are taking the snake by the wrong side . the problem is not Fedora or openSUSE: its is GTK2 and Gnome2. Tthey should seek a environment which depends on Gtk3 in a stable way.
8 • bodhi (by greg on 2013-04-22 10:53:30 GMT from Slovenia)
perhaps they should have a DVD image with a few common applicaitons available for offline install.
the CD image is quite big for such a small amount of programmes that are come preinstalled.
9 • Fuduntu (by Joselo on 2013-04-22 10:54:24 GMT from Mexico)
I really am so sad! . . Fuduntu team anounced its EOL the next september.
Sincerly talkink, Fuduntu was been the only RHEL that work totally out of the box, including it recognized and supported my 5020 nvidia card, my printers cannon and HP, my varios net cards, etc. It work very well in my old Toshiba netbook and in my new Sony Vaio. No anyother RHEL clone (Centos, Scientific, Springdale, Clearos, etc.) had worked so fine out of the box for me. The only tweak that I had needed is adding a media reoositorio for some codecs. Fuduntu has Jockey to easy configuring of any other devices.
10 • bodhi (by bin on 2013-04-22 11:07:59 GMT from United Kingdom)
@8 Have a look at Bloathi - it's a side-shoot of Bodhi - with all the bells and whistles you could hope for already installed.
Sadly I'd love to be able to use bodhi - boot up speed is fast etc etc but the clash of window styles and appearance with GTK apps such as Firefox etc makes it very inconsistent. Animated twiddly this and that is all too much distraction and I just do not want to put in so much work just to get back to what I have with XFCE. The Clearlooks theme for E17 works well at fixing that problem but that's not enough.
However, that's the beauty of linux versons/distros/spins - if you don't like it - move on. All credit to the Bodhi team though.
11 • Bodhi linux (by Chanath on 2013-04-22 11:17:52 GMT from Sri Lanka)
I like Bodhi, but I don't line E17, so if I am to use Bodhi, I have to install another WM. I like Bodhi because Jeff had cleaned Ubuntu to the minimum, and that's a great achievement.
I hope, Jeff would do the same with Raring too, or should we wait till 14.04?
It is real fun to add WM/DEs to Bodhi.
12 • Bodhi (by Twodogs on 2013-04-22 11:38:25 GMT from United States)
@1 - yeah, right?! E17 I find to be Not awkward and outdated (really?). I think it just takes a little time to figure out all the nuance's of a new DE. It has more eye candy than you can shake a stick at and runs fast while lookin' great.
@2 - agreed. Bodhi ran better on my laptop than my older desktop that I use for testing.
Nice review of Bodhi. It is worth trying! I'm looking forward to trying the new Ubuntu. Hopefully it is a winner AND my wireless will work. Using Mint right now and love it!
13 • How expectations have reversed: (by os2er on 2013-04-22 11:39:02 GMT from United States)
This from the Bohdi review is quite dismaying when you think on it: "On a modern system it is remarkable how responsive the interface is."
Holy cow! Sloth is typical on a dual-core with 6GB? Then it's not just me and my antique hardware: it's the software.
I'll try to keep to general complaints about GUIs. The Manjaro Cinnamon item last week indirectly points up how GUIs are taking over: "We can not maintain this edition anymore since upstream is dropping Cinnamon due incompatibility with GNOME 3.8." -- And what are we getting in the way of NEW function? More ease than ever? I see LESS function and LESS ease.
The specific distro that prompts me this week is PCLinuxOS 2013.04 "Full Monty", but it's only too typical. The trend that I see is GUIs totally taking over desktop space and WASTING it just for what used to be on fly-out menus, but now requires SIX "desktops" (actually categories) for windows of cartoon size icons and you must then painfully use sliders just to rummage around. Yes, one can probably LEARN how to customize it, but so far as my quick look went -- well, was NOT a quick look as the "live" DVD at best goes zombie speed -- the desktop is now just one giant "Start" menu, only more clumsy than ever.
Other places in the GUI actual function has been lost. I wanted to look on the existing HD: seems in Konqueror there's no longer a "Storage Media" icon, nor a list of locations including physical drives as in Dolphin, nor any obvious way to mount the drive, so I've NO idea how one does that. And in Dolphin, trying to look into HD /root just put up angry red message box saying that I couldn't, NO reason why, and required a click to go away. Both file managers hit new lows for sloth (w 2.6G P4, SATA HD): don't seem to load totally into memory even with 1G, but access DVD with every click; and clicks on HD directory can take TENS of seconds to show even when only a dozen items.
Knoppix 7.05 provides welcome contrast: to my surprise it remains adequately fast even from live DVD, installed without trouble and is in MANY ways a delight that "just works". It uses the same old fly-out menus and tests the notion with MANY choices, but that method IS still FINE for relatively rare rummaging, better than taking over the whole desktop and adding sliders.
But soon found that both file managers have some novel notions that I've yet to adapt to, and even doubt that's possible. For instance, ctrl-click doesn't seem to work for multiple select; any single left-click with or without a key down takes action, and there's NO right-click menu to select "cut" or "copy". Nor did I find any way to open more than one file manager window, so any (potential) copy-paste gathering seems to require multiple navigations. They've removed some normal window controls, and to resize one MUST use lower right corner then slide it around with Alt down. It's NOT fun. -- As bad, GUI and programs are totally schizophrenic for single- or double-clicks: with file manager icon on desktop, a double-click from the habit of decades got me THREE windows every time. And no way to change action.
Guys, I don't think it's (only) my imagination and/or geezer incompetence, but that Linux GUIs are quite literally becoming unusable.
14 • Enlightenment17 (by mandog on 2013-04-22 11:43:20 GMT from Peru)
No No its not for old computers that is myth, As most distros use the latest kernals and software, that totally borks the older comp. To really see how fantastic e17 is it need a fast computer 6 or 8 core then you can run animated wallpaper and have non jerky menus with all the effects turned on. Arch really runs it well as arch is more vanilla than most. Suse has a good go as does Manjaro based on Arch but is always behind and starting to lose its compatability as did Chakra before it went its own way. Unfortunately Bodhi does lack not through effort as its got bucket loads of effort, but the Ubuntu base that is to bloated and patched and just strangles it.
That is my opinion as a fan of E17 and used it for 7 years for what its worth.
15 • @13 • How expectations have reversed (by ned on 2013-04-22 12:16:57 GMT from Austria)
Fully agree - a disaster.
16 • Ubuntu GNOME (by lang on 2013-04-22 12:18:18 GMT from Hungary)
It's a great news to Ubuntu GNOME added to database!
Now it's stable enough to everyday use, of course using the 3.6 version with well supported extensions.
(btw, Thank you for putting my comment to the right place! :))
17 • Back tracking GhostBsd (by mandog on 2013-04-22 12:26:46 GMT from Peru)
I installed Ghost after a failed attempt by using the second option and was pleasantly surprised, Fast boot up for BSD around 1 min and its pure FreeBSD, my ntfs drives I use for storage were all mounted most media codecs installed as was flash but flash is so outdated 9.xxx it did not work. Then the reality hit me the sortware is so out of date, so the latest is just not compatible. Needed to set up ports as the graphical sortware installer is only for show, I'm used to the terminal so no loss installed a few packages. I had more problems with PCBSD and a long hang at BTX this is a long running bug since version 7.
So GhostBSD is worth the effort its very fast does not crash again PCBSD choose to freeze a lot, appcafe downloads are huge and lots do not work or freeze the computer but its slowly getting there.
Again only my opinion on my opinion using my hardware
18 • @Jesse: (by dragonmouth on 2013-04-22 12:53:59 GMT from United States)
Why is it that every reviewer tests the ease of installing new packages in the distro they are reviewing, but they never test the ease, or lack thereof, of removing unwanted/unneeded packages? The *buntu family and all its relatives install by default a language pack for every language and dialect spoken on Earth. Also installed are drivers for most printers and video cards in existence. All this amounts to anywhere between 300meg and 600 meg of bloat. It wouldn't be so bad if these packages were removable after the install. However, they are integrated into the system itself and any attempt to uninstall them causes the system to become unusable. If the installation of new packages is so easy, why not let the user add the necessary language pack, printer/video driver AFTER the system was installed? Distro .ISO files used to fit on a CD. Now many of them are close to 1 gig. Not including language packs for the entire world by default would have the additional advantage of bringing those .ISO files down to CD size again.
19 • buntu's 13.04 (by Bill on 2013-04-22 13:44:23 GMT from United States)
I decided to give Xubuntu 13.04 a try as it's coming out soon. But when I added "Compiz" I discovered that the repositories no longer have Compiz-Fusion-Plugins-Extra. The extra plugins are no longer going to be supported. I'm pretty sure it's only a matter of time before regular compiz will be discontinued as well. All this talk about putting the fun back into computing is going the way of Fuduntu, it's dying at the hands of GTK3 and Shell. Seems in the future the only choice for me will be KDE, and I don't even like that DE. Yes, we have choices but not very many any more.
20 • E17 (by Bevenolent9 on 2013-04-22 13:44:38 GMT from United States)
Agreed with the reviewer - Enlightenment might be fast, but so is LXDE and it looks a lot nicer. I tried Bodhi and found some things that I liked, but all bizarre big widgets (power, enormous clock...) - garish and distracting. IMHO, Opensuse 12.3 (KDE of course) has the best looking, cleanest desktop around these days.
21 • Uninstalling @18 @dragonmouth (by koro on 2013-04-22 13:50:42 GMT from Belgium)
That's is why I typically perform a bare minimum Debian install in "Expert" mode. You can choose whether you want all the drivers or just the ones you need, you can choose whether or not you want non-free stuff, you can choose which locales you need, which DE (or no DE), you can install non-free drivers if you need them, if you use the business card installer you can even choose among Stable, Testing and Sid, etc. In spite of all the choices and versatility, the installer is still quite simple to follow.
For removing locales and other stuff after installation you can try "localepurge" and/or BleachBit.
22 • Opening large files without slowing down the system ... (by gregzeng on 2013-04-22 14:07:26 GMT from Australia)
When I move minicomputer data to microcomputers, this happened many times. The below steps are used when I closed down many computer departments, replacing them with microcomputers, much to the disgust and the unemployment of the fossilized ancients in the old computer industries, in both multinational and small companies.
To minimize drive read-writes and increase speeds when data is moved:
1) Use a barebones specialist program that does the one function best; just find-replace, or index-only, etc - rather than the usual data-handling program used.
2) Alter the data to a simpler, less complex format, then modify, before returning to the final format.
3) Use a barebones, simplified operating system, removing unneeded background tasks. An example relevant to Distrowatch: replace Windows with Linux, M$-Office with LibreOffice, etc.
4) Put the data section being processed onto a SSD, and as much of the process into ramdisk, or permanent RAM-MEMORY, instead of slower drive memory. If SSD speeds are relevant, use a recent Linux kernel and operating system that is optimized for SSDs.
5) Automate all or some processes with macro programs or macro-codes.
6) If memory speeds are critical, use faster memory, multi-channel memory, and/ or more memory; perhaps using everything in 64-bit - operating systems, programs, etc.
7) Simplify long complex processes, so that cheaper, less skilled staff can do the tedious work (outsource, in a third-world nation?).
23 • #18 (by anticapitalista on 2013-04-22 14:14:35 GMT from Greece)
Yeah - maybe they should remove all packs including English. I mean do Arabic users of Ubuntu, for example, really want to waste their hard drive space with unnecessary English localisation?
24 • @19 Compiz (by Maik on 2013-04-22 14:20:33 GMT from Belgium)
There's a package called compiz-plugins-extra in the repo's. Maybe it's that what you are searching for?
25 • Bodhi - what about the mouse cursor? (by octathlon on 2013-04-22 14:24:21 GMT from United States)
I've tried Bodhi a couple of times and the glaring problem for me was that the mouse cursor theme only worked on the desktop and in *some* application windows. When inside most application windows such as the web browser, it reverted to the tiny, ugly little black arrow of X-windows default. In your testing, did you notice whether that has been fixed?
26 • @dragonmouth and Fuduntu (by R.I.P. Fuduntu on 2013-04-22 14:31:27 GMT from Brazil)
@dragonmouth: That's exactly what "netinstall" .ISOs are made for, a bare-bones system that allows connection to the internet in order to download and install only the necessary stuff...
Fuduntu: They had such a great recipe: modern kernel and compiler, RHEL base for many things, great release model (rolling), great packaging structure (stable and testing channels).. Shouldn't they wait for RHEL 7? Isn't EOL'ing Fuduntu too soon?
27 • Debian 7.0 and Gnome3 3.4 (by Robert Schiele on 2013-04-22 14:59:46 GMT from United States)
Like many former Gnome2 users, I was appalled when the Gnome developers decided to abandon what was my DE of choice and to begin again, building a radically new version of Gnome from the ground up. I am a Linux user of several years duration, and feel reasonably at home using the CLI, but to me a good DE is important as well. A long-time Debian user, I experimented with several other distros (admittedly all Debian-based) before I decided to take Debian 7.0 "Wheezy" out for a spin with its default Gnome3 3.4 DE, and I was glad I did. While I would still prefer the Gnome developers to have evolved rather than starting over, I've found Gnome3 3.4 to be quite attractive and eminently usable, and this version of Debian has become my primary OS. For any who may be interested in trying it, I do recommend reading the errata before running the Debian Testing installer RC1, especially those booting the installer from a USB stick, and in particular the section dealing with the installation of Grub. Having said that, however, I have found Debian 7.0 with the Gnome3 3.4 DE to be rock-solid stable on my box, and I highly recommend it.
28 • Re: #2 - Bodhi on Older Computers and Bodhi DVD with Software (by Jeff Hoogland on 2013-04-22 15:02:32 GMT from United States)
We maintain a non-PAE Bodhi ISO image running on the older 3.2 kernel that supports a good deal of older hardware. It is on our 32bit downloads page.
There was also a comment about a Bodhi DVD with software - that also exists - in 32bit flavor on our source forge page.
Thanks for the write up, appreciate your fairly neutral/fair approach even though E17 isn't your favorite :)
29 • Bodhi linux (by Chanath on 2013-04-22 15:22:02 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Bodhi Linux without E17, but with gnome panel and old or new Slingshot works superbly. Its even better with Gnome-Pie. The nice part of Bodhi is its minimalism, or taking away maximum bloat off Ubuntu. Actually, Bodhi without E17 is another distro, and still a superb distro.
Would someone make a distro with only the Gnome-Pie?
30 • Bodhi (by ShadowJack on 2013-04-22 15:34:12 GMT from United States)
Jeff may not remember, but I was the one that suggested different default setups back when I was active in the forums when Bodhi first started. In the beginning it was all do it yourself.
31 • For the fuduntu guys (by TanKe on 2013-04-22 15:44:03 GMT from Mexico)
How about migrate to MATE? It's the same GNOME2 but someday will support full GTK3 (i think)
32 • payza (by jack on 2013-04-22 15:53:19 GMT from Canada)
Rebellin Linux uses Payza for money transfer(info from their release notes)
Do a google search on Payza
It may or may not be a scam but it seems that it is very difficult to get a response (from Payza) if anything goes wrong
33 • @23: language packs (by Pearson on 2013-04-22 15:54:05 GMT from United States)
The problem (as stated by #18) isn't the number of languages installed, but the difficulty in removing unneeded languages. It's fine to install all the languages since it can't be known what language the end user(s) will need. However, the end user should be able to remove languages that are known to not be needed (what's the likelihood off your hypothetical Arabic user desiring both Swedish and Tamil?)
On this thread, does Bodhi follow the *buntu trend of installing every possible language?
34 • #33 (by anticapitalista on 2013-04-22 16:07:30 GMT from Greece)
Yes I agree with you and post #18 that it should be easy to remove ANY localisation after installation if the user desires, and I would also include English in that. Since I don't use Ubuntu, I don't know how easy it is to do.
I wonder how many distros (as well as Ubuntus) will break if English localisation is removed and another one installed to replace it.
35 • @20 - Size of E17 gadgets (by Uncle Slacky on 2013-04-22 16:43:56 GMT from France)
You do realize that the sizes of all the things you mention (clock, power and other icons) are fully adjustable, and you can even mix and match the elements from other themes if you like?
36 • Opening large files without slowing down the system (by sebas on 2013-04-22 16:58:24 GMT from France)
Thanks for the tips, I like the vim (or gvim) -n <file> !
You can consider also to open any file with mcview (RO) or mcedit (RW), two little utilities that are part of MC (midnight commander) and that are normally called from inside MC by F3 or F4. It's nearly instantaneous, even with huge files.
37 • RE: 33-34 (by Landor on 2013-04-22 17:37:52 GMT from Canada)
Fedora's system broke the few times I tried it. One of the myriad of reasons I wouldn't recommend that distribution to my worst enemy. I tried to discuss that with them about it having way too many packages depending on too many other packages for no good reason and I got the usual, "You're wrong, there's nothing wrong with Fedora." Then I brought up some other distributions that you can remove them/tweak everything to your liking, and was told that I was looking at Fedora improperly.
The more you learn of that distribution, the more you understand that they want to force you into using what they want specifically. It's nothing more than a corporate too. I'd put money on the fact that it's no different with Ubuntu.
Keep your stick on the ice...
38 • Language Packs, Why download them at all? (by Linux Lover on 2013-04-22 17:51:57 GMT from United States)
Strange that people have so many problems with such simple things. You can skip the language pack downloads by choosing SKIP during the install process, but if you are not paying attention to what you are doing during the install process then you can install, as was stated in another comment, BitBeach which has localepurge. It is in the repositories. I'm still amazed that people are still coming back week after week just to whine about they can't use a certain desktop environment as if they would use it to begin with. The comments about that and also about too much bloat are funny to read. There is very good information on DW and even in the comments section. You just have to know who to separate the wheat from the chaff. :)
39 • Fuduntu & systemd (by :wq on 2013-04-22 17:57:31 GMT from United States)
"...the move of the Linux world to systemd has caused a problem for Fuduntu as it has become a required thing for many programs, but we do not use it."
How does basing off of openSUSE change this for the Fuduntu team? Will they be using System V init instead of systemd?
40 • OMG! Ubuntu! (by Bernstein on 2013-04-22 17:57:34 GMT from United States)
So the selling points for the new release is even better window management than before, so really just an upgrade of sorts, nothing really new there.
And you're integrating social media even more... because including the Amazon store last time proved to be such a popular idea. I am I wrong in assuming that since there are 100s of websites directing users how to get rid of the Amazon store recommendations that this was a "feature" not well received by the community? Somebody please show me the error of my ways.
The only other "new" thing is the shutdown dialogue that now omits "standby/hibernation", that and "new" blue-tooth buttons that allow you to do basic stuff that should have been included in the first place.
Sorry for the rant, guess I'm looking to change from Ubuntu as I value privacy and ease of use over personal information sharing and outdated software. Ubuntu's great when it works but when it doesn't, it's really no fun to fix and at that point you might as well be running just about any Linux OS
41 • Payza/Rebellin (by ada on 2013-04-22 18:01:30 GMT from Italy)
From the Rebellin site:
Indian Users cannot use Paypal. Kindly create a Payza account! Alternatively other users can check out via Paypal!
I bought Rebellin (the Adrenaline versione) 3 month ago using PayPal. Had no problems. I gave Rebellin Adrenaline a spin. Installs fine! Rebellin is extremely fluid.
I had a couple of hiccups but the kid solved them within hours. I didn't need the help actually,
just wanted to give a shot to his $5 email support, and he's damn good.
Email support is faster than any forum out there and $5 for the lifetime of the product is dirt cheap.
And he's doing pretty good job of it!
42 • @ 9 (by :wq on 2013-04-22 18:25:32 GMT from United States)
Fuduntu isn't a RHEL derivative; it is/was a fork of Fedora.
Korora also features Jockey (as does Parsidora, though Parsidora hasn't had a release in a while), and I believe the Korora team has worked along with the Parsidora team (and the Jockey maintainers) to get Jockey working in Fedora land. So you might want to check Korora out.
43 • Fuduntu and Fooey (Debian 7) (by Sam on 2013-04-22 19:02:06 GMT from United States)
- I remember getting into a debate/conversation (of sorts) with the Fuduntu developer Andrew Wyatt over the distro's lack of some common Gnome scientific computing libraries (GSL, for one) which made it much more difficult to setup Fuduntu to run the GIS software I usually pop onto Fedora. Sad because Fuduntu seemed much more "easy-to-use" and seemed to "just work" much more than Fedora sometimes.
- Debian? Is that Gnome 3.x? If so, why the love of black UI theming? Please tell me that chan easily be changed. I'm tired of Linux desktops thinking emo UIs are "cool."
44 • os2er, Landor, Sam and everyone (by lang on 2013-04-22 20:55:09 GMT from Hungary)
Google and Apple (and RIM/berry) has enough money to develop framework to build apps for every needs. Without money with a hobbyproject we only can do minimal operating systems with a browser and finding for web based apps for resolve everyday's problems. I don't think that we can cover all needs with heterogeneous frameworks, Gtk or Qt based development.
Mobile devices and the new and latest releases of good known desktop environments are wasteful.
In a global point of view I don't believe that facebook's and linkedin's switching from web based solutions to platform dependent apps is a wise decision.
I found a nice project, called Archpup with minimal toolbar looks like chromeos taskbar, simple script based wireless connection tool, and minimal font selection with minimal gtk support.
I think that something like chrome os will be the winner in the free side of Linux world, without platform dependant frameworks and apps. Maybe the Firefox OS will be that. Who knows?
45 • Bodhi (by Chris on 2013-04-22 20:59:06 GMT from United States)
I installed Bodhi 2.3.0,32 bit for i686 on an older model laptop that my son wore out. I'm new-ish to Linux, but Bodhi's website explained everything well, package management was easy and there is a large assortment to choose from. I've enjoyed selecting what software I prefer, instead of it being included with the ISO. The wireless (Broadcom b43) worked from the get-go, that was a plus. Lubuntu, OpenSUSE, no such luck. Bodhi is a fun distro to work with. Once you realize that you chose most of your default programs, it makes sense.
46 • discontinued (by :wq on 2013-04-22 21:27:58 GMT from United States)
"..DistroWatch's discontinued distribution list now stands at 360."
You can probably add Commodore OS Vision to that list. OS Vision 1.0 was based on Linux Mint 10 / Ubuntu 10.10, which went EOL April 2012. There was talk of a new version being based on Mint 13 / Ubuntu 12.04, but that never materialized. The forums went offline shortly after the passing of CUSA's CEO, and now the whole site is down.
47 • Ubuntu 13.04 (by cflow on 2013-04-22 21:41:41 GMT from United States)
From curiosity, I put the beta on my netbook. No... there's not many major changes other than performance - the graphics and dash menu work so much smoother than even 12.04. There were some stability issues with some apps, but otherwise nothing major going on. It's pretty much "boring" to me compared to 12.10, but if you've read the Ars review of the ultrabook, that how a stable operating system is supposed to work on a computer, isn't it? I'm guessing all the work is more toward "Unity Next," which is supposed to come out as the default desktop in 14.04.
Also, if you all haven't heard, the KDE folks are finally thinking about modularity of it's desktop, removing interdependencies of its libraries and even allowing developers to package KDE into a more lightweight format called "KLyDE". I just can't wait to try this out... Though I wonder - how "lightweight" would KDE need to become to ever attract XFCE and LXDE users?
48 • Older hardware (by djohnston on 2013-04-22 23:29:17 GMT from United States)
#2 "Being based in a recent Ubuntu base system and having a very recent kernel, some old (and not so old) hardware will be deprecated."
#14 "As most distros use the latest kernals and software, that totally borks the older comp."
Not sure where you guys are coming from on this belief. I am currently running Debian wheezy on a 1999 PentiumIII 800mHz with 512MB RAM, and using the latest 3.8-8 liquorix kernel. Desktop is LXDE and the software has given me no problems for many months.
49 • KLyDE (by Rooster on 2013-04-22 23:30:33 GMT from United States)
#47....I would definitely try that out. Thanks for the info!
50 • @anticapitalista (by dragonmouth on 2013-04-22 23:32:30 GMT from United States)
I never said that English or any other language should be the sacred cow that cannot or should not be uninstalled. The user should be able to uninstall any and all unneeded language packs. IIRC, antiX does not install zillions of languages. siduction installs only English, Italian, German, Polish, Portuguese/Brazilian. I have successfully uninstalled all but English. Why do the developers of these distros feel that they do not have include every language under the sun? You don't even include Greek in antiX.
But the problem is not just the language packs. Linux once prided itself on its modularity. Now more and more distros are becoming Windows-like monoliths from which no package can be uninstalled. The concept of modularity is being killed by certain developers.
51 • @Linux Lover (by dragonmouth on 2013-04-22 23:45:13 GMT from United States)
So what you're saying is that in order to UNinstall some unwanted packages, I first have to INSTALL more unneeded package(s)? Sounds kind of backward to me.
In *buntus, try uninstalling "cowsay" and "fortune" packages. They both have "ubuntu-minimal" as their dependency. In case you are unaware, "ubuntu-minimal" is a system component whose removal makes the system unusable. I don't care what tool you try to use, you can't remove "cowsay" and/or "fortune" without breaking the system.
BTW - the package is BleachBit, not BitBeach.
52 • Ubuntu 13.04 (by Candide on 2013-04-23 00:46:25 GMT from Sweden)
Although it hasn't been released yet, I've been experimenting with Ubuntu 13/04-alpha for a couple of months now. I used to be a real Ubuntu enthusiast, and though I wasn't pleased with Unity, that really wasn't a problem at all since I simply switched to the Lubuntu desktop (all you need is "apt-get lubuntu-desktop").
However, I've finally had to give up on Ubuntu completely because two of my most used programs no longer seem to work on it: Google Earth and Kompozer. Actually, Google Earth will work, but with no "Earth" - only roads are visible. Perhaps this is a graphic driver issue, I'm not sure, and maybe it will be resolved in the final release. But the problem with Kompozer has been around since at least version 12.10 - it simply won't run at all. Kompozer has been deprecated, but you can download a tarball and it runs fine on Debian (which is what I'm using now). But on Ubuntu, it simply won't run at all.
But Google Earth and Kompozer are essential apps for me, so unless this gets fixed, I have no choice but to go Debian full time.
53 • @52 - Google Earth (by mcellius on 2013-04-23 01:28:35 GMT from United States)
I don't know about Kompozer; I've never tried as I don't need it. (I did see a thread in ubuntuforums.org that claimed to have solved the problem, but perhaps you've already seen it.) But Google Earth has evidently been fixed in Ubuntu 13.04. (Check out these installation instructions: http://www.noobslab.com/2013/04/latest-google-earth-for-ubuntu.html) They worked for me!
54 • @51 (by Brandon Sniadajewski on 2013-04-23 03:00:53 GMT from United States)
I just looked on Muon (Kubuntu's graphical PM) and fortune does not have ubuntu-minimal as a dependency or a dependent. This is on 13.04.
55 • Mageia - for a light KDE4 (by RollMeAway on 2013-04-23 03:58:17 GMT from United States)
A recent install of "mageia-3-beta3-kde4-i586" surprised me by NOT installing akonadi nor nepomuk. That alone makes for a light KDE!
Those packages CAN be installed from their repo, if anyone actually has a need.
I find mageia 3 to be trouble free on my old hardware. Even nvidia-304.xx works flawlessly. I have yet to get Rosa to work with nvidia.
Perhaps there IS a real reason mageia is climbing the charts on distrowatch?
56 • Minimal installs (by A on 2013-04-23 05:56:26 GMT from Germany)
"So what you're saying is that in order to UNinstall some unwanted packages, I first have to INSTALL more unneeded package(s)? Sounds kind of backward to me."
Nothing prevents you from installing a minimal install of Debian or Ubuntu. You can go as bare as command line only and work your way up from there. There are a lot of guides on the web to walk you through the process.
If you don't want a ton of dependencies installed, install an alternative to the program you're looking to use, if it exists. For example, if you want a media player, there are many to choose from. Learning more about apt-get and aptitude will help you very much.
57 • #50 @dragonmouth (by anticapitalista on 2013-04-23 09:30:52 GMT from Greece)
We actually agree with each other, I think, than disagree.
"Why do the developers of these distros feel that they do not have include every language under the sun? You don't even include Greek in antiX."
Actually Greek is included in antiX.
The reason is because they cater to a more advanced user base and/or to those that want more or total control over the installation/setting up process and/or they want the iso to be as small as possible. Others, on the other hand, choose to make everything available for the new user so that it just works in any language OOTB.
For developers, one dilemma is about internationalisation. Well it is for me and antiX.
We started out with only English available, but felt that was unfair so further along the road we have added more languages. We are far from what we want to achieve in being a distro for all and any localisation, but that it one of our aims.
Remember, some users may not have a connection to the net, or an extremely slow and/or unreliable one, so basically as much as possible needs to be in the iso. This applies even more so to 'minority' languages ('minority' is used not as an insult nor because the numbers using the language is necessarily small e.g. Arabic, but as what many in the Anglo-Germanic-Franco speaking world tend to ignore or see as secondary)
58 • Minority language support should be essential, but.... (by dbrion on 2013-04-23 10:36:13 GMT from France)
Well, you will never manage to have every language supported. I agree with you that minority languages should be supported. But how can you support wolof -an official language in Senegal-, hal pulaar, kalderash?
59 • Word play (by martin on 2013-04-23 11:30:02 GMT from South Africa)
Ha ha, clever play on words there: "version 12.04, to be precise".
60 • REs (by Pierre on 2013-04-23 12:49:17 GMT from Germany)
I can't see GUIs becoming unusable and therefore cannot see the reason for your complaints.
Xfce for example succeeds in delivering a very polished and classic desktop that nevertheless does the job very compfortable and fast.
If one likes it still classic but more modern uses KDE 4.10 which got improved a lot and does not have such performance issues most likely everyone experienced with the previous versions.
Both, Xfce and KDE are easily and highly customizable through nice system settings/ control centers. So everyone who is willing to get oneself into how customization is done, will fast and easy learn how to do so. So it's up to your stubborness or your not willing to learn how to accomplish this and has nothing to do with the evolution of desktop environments. And if no full desktop environment is able to satisfy you, Linux is delivering a whole bunch of window managers that can - with not much effort - turned into a desktop environment fully to your liking.
If taking care of your own is too much to ask for, stop complaining and start using old Windows versions or maybe try out distros delivering the forks of older DEs like Trinity and Mate. But both are becoming more and more depricated because they are based on old and depricated libraries. So I personally see no real solution in using them if Xfce or KDE could both do the job.
I you don't like that more packages are installed than you will need you should consider using distros like Arch Linux, where you set up on your very own what you need, resulting in a highly customized os.
In all the main distros out there the language packages are delivered for a good reason. So deinstalling is not the best idea and is therefore made impossible. Again, if you don't like it, you don't have to use the distro that is driven by such a philosophy. Additionally I don't see a problem in having the language packages installed by default. Most of us have so much hard disk space that these few MBs don't matter at all and I don't see these packages as bloat anyways.
Same thing with drivers and such here. Additionally you are able to do a minimal install of almost all the main distros as well and build your very own system from there on.
61 • @Brandon Sniadejewski: (by dragonmouth on 2013-04-23 12:50:20 GMT from United States)
"fortune does not have ubuntu-minimal as a dependency or a dependent. This is on 13.04."
Well, whoop de doo! Excuse the sarcasm but fortune is only one minor package which I used as an example. My point is that in *buntus too many unrelated packages have system dependencies. The same packages in other distros do not, so it just goes to show that those dependencies are artificial.
62 • @anticapitalista: (by dragonmouth on 2013-04-23 13:11:13 GMT from United States)
"Actually Greek is included in antiX."
Sorry, I didn't notice. /grin/ But I can uninstall Greek without disabling the system. And that is my point.
I am not picking on language packs per se, I only use them as an example of how distros get and stay bloated.
The reason is because they cater to a more advanced user base"
So noobs are forever condemned to suffer from bloat and unneeded apps? /Grin/
63 • @Pierre: (by dragonmouth on 2013-04-23 13:26:45 GMT from United States)
"I you don't like that more packages are installed than you will need you should consider using distros like Arch Linux"
Thanks for the suggestion but I start with antiX Core and build up my system, or with siduction and remove all the junk I don't want.
"In all the main distros out there the language packages are delivered for a good reason."
And that reason is the ability to brag about how many packages come installed with a particular distro?
"Most of us have so much hard disk space that these few MBs don't matter at all"
Do you also live in a 15 bedroom house even though you only need 2, just because it's available? A few extra rooms don't matter at all. Do you drive a car with all possible options installed? I know that nature abhors vacuum but I want to be the one to fill that space. Instead of 300-600meg of language packs and hardware drivers that I will never use, I would rather have 300-600 meg of mp3's, video and images.
64 • #62 @ dragonmouth (by anticapitalista on 2013-04-23 13:42:53 GMT from Greece)
"So noobs are forever condemned to suffer from bloat and unneeded apps? /Grin/"
Only if they stick to the windows, apple mindset :)
I looked at the download statistics for full, base and core versions of antiX and was surprised that by far the most downloaded version, is our bloated full :)
65 • Ubuntu,s spyware (by Wally free nut on 2013-04-23 13:58:57 GMT from United States)
Sorry to interrupt , but I just wanted to say that I feel its a slap in the face from Ubuntu .all the folks that put there time in for free and believe in open source and are proud to see there complishments on computers old and new.very disappointed .i hope all this gets straitened out and does not end up with a face like windows and or the rep that windows has . All was over I guess when deals were done in ink with windows and amazon.and now even play station and well of course kindle.even new deals with dell , hp , Lenovo , sys76....so I hope we can keep saying free as in beer ...thank you......wally
66 • @ dragonmouth (#63) (by Pierre on 2013-04-23 14:09:49 GMT from Germany)
"Thanks for the suggestion but I start with antiX Core and build up my system, or with siduction and remove all the junk I don't want."
Both good options if you prefer Debian as a base. If really building up an OS of my own choices I prefer Arch or FreeBSD - with both only my own choices are installed, resulting in a rock solid OS. Nevertheless at the moment I am running openSUSE because of it's ease of use.
"And that reason is the ability to brag about how many packages come installed with a particular distro?"
It's not about showing off but about delivering as many options as possible. Main distros are most likely designed for heterogeneous environments where more than one person are using a computer. If not delivering all language packages localization for users with different language preference will mean them ending up to be forced to use a language that is not to their liking or which they maybe even do not understand at all.
Having all drivers installed makes 'moving' of an OS a lot easier. The system is then able to make use of new hardware directly. Again it would mean to end up with non-usable hardware in some cases and particularly for users without root access and the ability to install needed drivers.
I definitely see the reason why you don't like it. If you always have root access and using only one language having everything possible installed is of no use for you.
The developers prefer to be on the save side anyways and delivering those few drivers and language packages avoid problems for many others. Just try to think of them, too. There are more people using the distros than you.
"Do you also live in a 15 bedroom house even though you only need 2, just because it's available? [...]"
Not at all but this is a completely different case. There is only me using the house or at least a clearly defined number of others and I know exactly what their needs are.
Distro developers have completely different presets here. They have to think about every usecase and make their choices the way they satisfy the most of them.
And at least you are always able to customize. And if you are not able to customize enough or the distros goals and philosophy does not meet your needs you can and do choose a different distro, as we see. :-)
67 • Are language pack "these few MBs" @60 (by dbrion on 2013-04-23 14:34:35 GMT from France)
Well, hyphen takes about 10 K
man-pages takes 5 M in its French version
gimp_help takes ...30 M in its French version, 28Mega in its English one..
Suppose various help files are translated, and each language needs/would need, (if one managed to translate anythin) 60 M
Suppose there are 86 official languages http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_de_langues_par_ordre_alphab%C3%A9tique and 10-100 times more unofficial languages?
Are 4000 - 400 000 Mégas such "few"?
68 • Does it need to be said again? (by DavidEF on 2013-04-23 18:26:56 GMT from United States)
Use what you like. Let the rest of us do the same. Don't complain about things you don't use. There are plenty of alternatives that will suit your use-case. Why are people complaining about too many language packs or drivers installed in the system? Use a different distro! Do we really need so badly to have something to complain about, that we'll complain about little non-issues like these? As Pierre said above, the developers need to cover all the use-cases. The best default is to have all the language packs and drivers included.
69 • Unused pack (by Charles Burge on 2013-04-23 20:05:49 GMT from United States)
@ 62 "So noobs are forever condemned to suffer from bloat and unneeded apps? /Grin/"
Noobs, probably so. Newbies, I would say not. The difference, of course, is that a newbie can mature into a competent, mature user and make himself aware of the options. Noobs will generally always remain noobs.
I find this whole discussion of uninstalling unneeded/unwanted packages rather interesting. It seems silly to install a package in the first place if you already know you don't want it installed. And that is exactly what won me over to Arch. With Arch, you start with just a base system, and then install only what you need/want, and nothing else. To me, that sums up one of the core values of Linux. The bloat that I see creeping in looks to me like it's coming primarily from people who are trying to make Linux act like Windows or MacOS.
70 • @ #69 & #68 (by Pierre on 2013-04-23 20:30:47 GMT from Germany)
@ #70 • Unused pack by Charles Burge
I find the discussion on uninstalling packages interesting because use-cases can change over time. Arch or not Arch, you might then want to uninstall the software that became unneeded. But if I installed packages starting from a minimal base system I exactly know what is installed and what needed and I know where compatibility issues might arise right before I try to uninstall. This is the little advantage over other systems where everything comes preinstalled.
@ #69 • Does it need to be said again? by DavidEF
That's exactly what I pointed out. If someone does not like the way one distro works there are planty other to use instead. But isn't it nice if so less is to complain about that we start to complain about such thing? :-)
71 • @dragonmouth (by Brandon Sniadajewski on 2013-04-23 22:59:02 GMT from United States)
Sarcasm excused. It makes you wonder then who determines the dependencies fro each distro. At least under *buntu (and maybe with Debian proper, IDK) one can spoecifically include "--no-install-recommends", or check the proper options in your fav graphical PM, to only get the hard dependencies and not any of the soft ones (labelled recommends and suggests).
72 • Love Bodhi and Enlightenment ! (by addict2tux on 2013-04-24 02:17:56 GMT from United States)
I have been running ubuntu for many years and only last that I found Bodhi is the best desktop I can have. 1st of all, Enlightenment is very fast. 2ndly, All desktop elements in Enlightenment are customizable. Bodhi provides many pre-built beautiful themes. I love Bodhi with all my heart because I don't not have any other requirements.
73 • disk space (by greg on 2013-04-24 07:00:05 GMT from Slovenia)
with disk space being so cheap lately it doesn't really matter if i have 28 or 30 GB instaleld on the desktop/laptop.
the only current issue would be with devices such as tablets/mobile phones. but they can't run as much of desktop software anyway (except maybe the intel based windows tablets), besides their capacity will get bigger in time as well and they usually have more optimised system.
74 • Bodhi (by Ika on 2013-04-24 13:24:36 GMT from Spain)
Nice and very good review.
Ilike Enlightenment and was considering give a try to Bodhi...
...But it is a *buntu and am avoiding the danger to use a sudo based... hmmm... "distro".
75 • Re @ #74 by Ika (by Pierre on 2013-04-24 14:03:18 GMT from Germany)
Sure, Bodhi is Ubuntu based. Nevertheless that does not mean, that you aren't able to disable the sudo command by simply editing the sudoers config file or even uninstalling the sudo command.
So if you like the rest of what Ubuntu and Ubuntu based distros have in store for you, you should think about using your abilities in simply customizing the distro of choice. It is most likely you won't find a distro out there that completely fits your needs and preferences. But the biggest advantage of Linux is, you always can customize a distro to your own needs. This means not only installing additionally software but also editing config files and changing the defaults. Use your freedom and don't complain about one single little default that can be changed within seconds. Honestly.
Greetings from Germany!
76 • Bodhi (by Ray on 2013-04-24 14:53:16 GMT from United States)
What I like about Bodhi is its minimalist base, but like Jesse, I dont care for e17. Simple matter of installing MATE, purging all the e17 related files, and voila, a functional low resource minimalist base of choice. While I havent tried, Im certain you can do that with the DE of your choice :)
77 • Does RedFlag Linux 8.0 use SElinux? (by Barnabyh on 2013-04-24 23:12:56 GMT from United Kingdom)
Now that's an interesting release. Would like to take it for a spin if only the download wasn't so slow.
Jesse and/or Ladislav, does it come with SElinux and full disk encryption at install time?
Sorry, my distro doesn't have Chinese characters installed, so it's not as simple as Google translate. I get a lot of this 共同发展的原则，红旗软件期望与系统集成商.
Nevertheless, it stands to reason if it's based on Fedora in part. Unless the state's afraid of disk encryption. Website style is evocative of CentOS/Redhat as well.
78 • RE: 77 Does RedFlag Linux 8.0 use SElinux? (by ladislav on 2013-04-25 00:37:57 GMT from Taiwan)
No, it doesn't. There is no encryption option available in the installer either. In fact, the installer is very simple - just pick a partition (or let the system take over the hard disk) and you are off. There is an "advanced" option that allows you to fine-tune the partitioning setup, but that's about it. The only file system available is ext4. At first boot you'll have to create a user account. There is no place to set a root password, but you can sudo to become root (no password needed).
There is no graphical package manager and the pre-configured yum repositories lead to non-existing sites, so I have no idea how to install any extra software you might need, other than by compiling it yourself. The release notes talk about a "Red Flag Software Centre", but there is no bookmark for it in the browser and when searching on the Internet the only thing resembling an online installation utility I found was a page listing a grand total of 8 applications (Firefox, Skype, rar, Adobe Reader...). The distro comes with a 423-page user manual (in English), but even there I couldn't find any mention of a software centre.
It looks like the distro was designed as a simple OS for doing just a few common tasks. If you need one with more flexibility, security and applications then Red Flag Linux 8.0 is probably not for you.
79 • Ubuntu's 9 months support (by Chanath on 2013-04-25 06:47:59 GMT from Sri Lanka)
When Ubuntu 14.04 would be out in April 2014, Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail, which would be released today would be dead January 2014, with its 9 months support, not like the old days, when such releases had 18 months support. The next 13.10 would be dead by July 2014.
Otherwise, both the 13.04 & 13.10 would live quite a time into next LTS 14.04's support period. Once the LTS would come by, no one would be using 13.04 & 13.10, so the month support period. I wrote about this few moths ago too.
80 • Ubuntu's 9 months support (by Chanath on 2013-04-25 06:49:51 GMT from Sri Lanka)
Once the LTS would come by, no one would be using 13.04 & 13.10, so the 9 month support period. I wrote about this few moths ago too.
81 • Bodhi - in defence of .. (since it needs it) (by gregzeng on 2013-04-25 08:18:18 GMT from Australia)
Bodhi is one of the tiny USB-flash-sockets on my keyring (the other is Zorin). Installing Bodhi from warm-boot to completion is only five (5) minutes on my very complex PC: multi-booting from a menu of at least six-boot partitions, on several hard drives (Hybrid SSD, motherboard SSD, & 3 USB-mounted drives).
After booting, installing Grub-Customizer allows resetting my grub menu to my default selection of booting. This is much quicker than CLI modification of any config files IMO.
LXDE is the default alternative for Bodhi. Like other most nonE17 customizations, it needs post-installation add-ons. As a very bare-bones distro, you can install any desktop environment (DE) you may choose: XFCE, KDE, Unity, Mint, Gnome 2 or 3, etc. But add-on DE will not have as many customizations as a ready-built distro specialized only to the DE of your preference.
@73 • disk space ... my motherboard SSD is only 80 GB, unlike your multiterabyte SSD. IMO booting disk space is not cheap. Bodhi newly installed uses about 3GB of my 5GB partition of the SSD. My home data partitions are on other drives; not my SSDs.
75 • Re @ #74 by Ika ... you are replying to one of the many anti-buntu trolls living on Distrowatch. Luckily this troll was directly attacking buntu. Usually they minimize the fact that buntu might have the best distro installer, best app collection, and is the most supported distro by most (all?) independent third party suppliers of hardware, software and and-ons of all types.
On Bodhi fashion tastes, I share attitudes of Jesse and many other independent reviewers. Every organization has preferred emotional & cultural preferences, so in Bodhi it is an extremely minimalist black theme, favoring night-time haunters, without room lights to show the room in the display's mirror-display. Simple screen ergonomics (multiple personalities, including party-going extroverts, children, aged cripples (like myself) are unknown to the Bodhi corporate culture - as yet.
Unlike (almost?) every other Linux distro, Bodhi establishes several unusuals:
1) a claimed 4K display (4x bigger than 1080p)
2) ARM-CPU version - but the Bodhi forums have yet to show any user who has successfully run this, it seems.
Like many Linux distro explorers, I was amazed at some of the mouse ergonomics used by Bodhi. The 'Start' menu is just one click away, anywhere of the desktop. Unlike distros based on Gnome3, there is no waste screen space by inflexible, unmodifiable, permanently stupid task bars.
Finally, thank you to Distrowatch for showing:
"facts first, then you can distort them as you please. (Mark Twain)".
As all academics know, factoids are the 'truth". Scientifically speaking, there is no such thing as a 'fact'. Every human artifact, including all hman languages (verbal, non-verbals of all kinds) - is almost fictitious, only existing in the "eyes of the beholder". Like it or not, 'truth' is political.
82 • @78, Does RedFlag Linux 8.0 use SElinux? (by Barnabyh on 2013-04-25 14:45:14 GMT from United Kingdom)
Thank you Ladislav. That's quite a disappointment, I had hoped for a truly capable, versatile and secure Linux OS out of China, similar to the big player but perhaps improving on it in some areas, i.e. the mentioned Software Centre.
I see the empty boxes in my first post are showing proper Chinese characters now on a full Slackware install.
83 • Goodbye FIREFOX (Lubuntu 13.04). Jounalists? (by gregzeng on 2013-04-26 01:45:13 GMT from Australia)
Very different to most 'open-source' only distros, Lubuntu has not included Firefox. So bad is firefox for memory-hogging, it is used by some publications as a timing benchmark (100 tabs open) for distro comparison.
Instead they choose another: Chromium (since Google Chrome is so closed, that they finally SLOWED their anti-Youtube download policies). I'm looking forward to the days ahead when the computer journalists reach the high competence (honesty, diligence, research, historical-checks, brevity, multi-comparisons) that we now see in national & international motoring writers.
Eventually we might see awards for computer journalism, like we have in other journalistic industries(?) As an ex-publisher in radio & print media, I yearn for true competence in computer reportage. Missed hero of my past was Gareth Powell, the most published computer journalist in Australia (1980s), until he was torn down by the state's right-wingers in a very public destruction -an admonishment for his Sins was ok IMHO. Gareth sent himself up, humorously & ethnically (Gaelic migrant), humanized his writing with self-disclosured FEELINGS (!), as well as covering complex technicalities in daily family words. Personally, I've never met him - just read his productivity.
Current computer journalists of good quality? TWIT (This Week In Tech), etc - of USA podcasts, videocasts & Youtube, as led by Leo Laporte and company (not just a one-man band this time). Others I have noticed, but have largely disappeared. Any other nominations for computer jounalist of the year, decade, century in print, audio or video media?
84 • You don't like e17 (enlightenment) ? (by RollMeAway on 2013-04-26 03:59:15 GMT from United States)
I see many comment that they don't like e17, Jesse included.
I wonder if you have taken the time to learn how to setup and change e17 ?
Or, is your dislike based upon a brief encounter with an e17 desktop someone else setup?
The true magic of e17 is that it CAN be change to look and act like YOU want it to.
Don't wait for someone else to someday setup e17 in a manner that pleases you.
Investigate how it works and how to modify the behavior to suit your preferences.
Your WILL be very glad you took the time, when you experience YOUR results.
Bodhi is without a doubt the most complete and stable source for installing e17 at this time. Others distros simply do not take the time and care.
85 • Ubuntu 13.04 (by Chanath on 2013-04-26 04:55:43 GMT from Sri Lanka)
I had 13.04 beta all updated, but without Unity. I thought maybe I'd download it and see, whether I can work with Unity, but I just couldn't. As far as the launcher is visible it was okay, but after making it autohide it slowly became a problem. So, I installed Gnome-panel through Synaptic and have an easy distro. I installed Cairo dock too and uninstalled everything Unity. So, Ubuntu 13.04 became user friendly again.
The mobiles--Samsung, LG etc--have their launchers on the left, so it might be Ubuntu's idea to have the Unity launcher on the left, but I still strongly believe that Ubuntu must think of the OS as a desktop one, rather than a mobile one--the keyboard would stay alive for quite a long time.
86 • @81 (by Ika on 2013-04-26 13:40:58 GMT from Spain)
"75 • Re @ #74 by Ika ... you are replying to one of the many anti-buntu trolls living on Distrowatch."
Ok. *u is the best! *u is awsome! *u is the safest! etc... etc...!!!...
Do you like it! Sure, this is not troll. :D
"...buntu might have the best distro installer..."
Did you ever tried install Mageia or PCLinuxOS for example? And what's a *buntu install time? No less than 30 min. Just compare it with PCLinuxOS: no more than 15 min.
"...best app collection, and is the most supported distro by most (all?) independent third party suppliers of hardware, software and and-ons of all types."
This is not the equivqlent of good. Neither the popularity give such warranty.
Personaly, I see U like a Linux Windows. But it's just my opinion.
And since when a contrary opinion (true or not) is a troll?
Ok, sorry for the troll.
*u is the... etc... etc...
87 • 86 • @81 (by mandog on 2013-04-26 23:49:02 GMT from Peru)
What about aptosid/siduction 3-5mins
88 • Bhodi, e17 and more (by xetaprime on 2013-04-27 00:42:25 GMT from United States)
The trick with e17 from the start is that t is not your Grandmother's desktop, meaning, learning curve. But once you've mastered the new setup, it's a great ride! If you want to experience a more guilt free version, ubuntu free, try Sparky Linux which is based on Debian Wheezy and includes LXDE option. With all e17 if you don't like the desktop you have you can go into settings panel to Profiles and go default which will start you from scratch where you can choose effects, application bars etc. And there's remastersys at hand too. I created Prime e17 a while back and due to Family issues haven't been able to update it. Sparky is pretty much an update at least debian/LXDE wise. I tried Bhodi's latest go and had problems immediately. Gave Snow linux also a go and decided Sparky was best.
Don't give up on e17. Yes, there is that learning curve, but once you're on the road you may find it's well worth it. Clean, fast and very configurable. Best, Xetaprime
89 • @ 86 Installation time (by Chanath on 2013-04-27 05:55:49 GMT from Sri Lanka)
How do you pour concrete? Do you dump it or do you send it down the chute? That's the same with a good installation of a distro.
90 • Ika (by @87 mandog on 2013-04-27 13:04:38 GMT from Spain)
"What about aptosid/siduction 3-5mins"
When I the installation take up to 15 minutes I had in mind the whole process: partitioning, effective disk writing, boot configuration, keyboard, locale, root and user config...
The efective writing on the drivetakes about 4 min the MiniMe and about 8 min the full version (1.62 GB,which is more than triple in size as MiniMe - 548 MB). This for KDE DE. The LXDE needs about 3-5 minutes (depending if Mini or full).
Even the Full Monty, with it's 3+GB is taking less than 15 min.
In my opinion, PCLOS have one of the better and intuitive installation (if not the best). Mageia too, because are cousines. :D.
91 • ubuntu gnome (by forlin on 2013-04-27 13:26:24 GMT from Portugal)
I've never been a buntu user but I really appreciate this distro. For my daily usage, I feel I can achieve higher productivity, compared with the old traditional desktops. Tweak Tool and Shell Extensions do now provide many of the features users used to complain for not being available. Even the top bar, that I used to always move down in Gnome2, seems ok now, as its essentially informative. Well done Ubuntu. This is a great new member in the family.
92 • Less is more (by Magic Banana on 2013-04-28 18:00:03 GMT from Brazil)
The "less" command is *the* answer to *interactively* work on large text files. It can go to specific lines (no need for 'sed'), search for regular expressions (no need for 'grep'), and even do some basic editing. 'man less' to know everything. ;-)
93 • @16 Ubuntu Gnome (by Roy Huddleston on 2013-04-28 23:26:19 GMT from United States)
Its a great distro and I like the like the extension page.
Its beta but it works great. :)
94 • @ 69 Unused Pack (by Anonymous Coward on 2013-04-28 23:36:07 GMT from United States)
"With Arch, you start with just a base system, and then install only what you need/want, and nothing else. To me, that sums up one of the core values of Linux. The bloat that I see creeping in looks to me like it's coming primarily from people who are trying to make Linux act like Windows or MacOS."
On modern hardware, what's with the Arch-phobia of some 75k library as a soft dependency? And since Arch rolls out new EVERYTHING don't many Arch fans have fairly modern hardware?
And the buntus aren't the only distros with package managers that can purge unused packages.
# yum remove --remove-leaves .....
95 • @ #86 (by Pierre on 2013-04-29 00:27:31 GMT from Germany)
Seems the comment you refer to has been deleted. I personally did not write something offensive like 'troll' or anything else.
Additionally I don't see Ubuntu as good as the mentioned comment pretends.
Sure, the solid Debian base it has been forked of makes it a highly usable distro and Cannonical has done a good job in catching more attention for Linux and open source. This is not for no reason.
But: They are not the first ones making a good job in producing high quality software on open source basis.
Red Hat and SuSE are doing a more silent but in some ways more solid work, too.
There are reasons why most companies prefer especially Red Hat for their business needs and are using Ubuntu most often only for desktops. But they could with some little more effort use Debian for that, too. So populatity is something misleading sometimes. And I don't see evidence for the claim that it has the best app collection or best support by hardware manufacturers.
FreeBSD has even more packages in their ports collection than Debian has in it's repos and Debian has more packages than Ubuntu. Additionally I experienced a better support for my hardware by openSUSE than by Ubuntu. So these both claims are simply false.
96 • @ #87 & 90 (by Pierre on 2013-04-29 01:38:36 GMT from Germany)
@ #87 & 90
I don't really care about how fast an installation is done, but how reliable it is, how good the result is (how good the installed OS works) and how convenient and comfortable the installation process is.
And in the end this is a very subjective evaluation.
If you are setting up a very basic and simply system and have no special wishes and needs, installers like those of Mint, Ubuntu and aptosid/siduction are doing very well.
But if you have maybe multiple hard drives, you maybe even want to set up Btrfs (no matter it has not seen it's first stable release) or an Raid/LVM config, want to have a selection between desktops and what software gets installed you won't propably not be happy with these installers but be very happy with those of openSUSE or Red Hat/Fedora/CentOS etc.
Anyways, for me the best experience is the one that the openSUSE (YaST) installer is offering.
You have a whole bunch of options in every aspect and stage of the installation, it's mature and stable, comfortable and assists you even in setting up btrfs filesystems. It presents a summary before changes are done. And it even still looks good. ;-)
Number of Comments: 96
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|• Issue 683 (2016-10-17): Refracta 8.0, making packages for distributions, Alpine switches to LibreSSL, 386BSD website publishes classic code|
|• Issue 682 (2016-10-10): KDE neon 20160915, Android-x86 6.0, Fedora warns of update bug, HandyLinux drops English translation, LXQt benchmarks|
|• Issue 681 (2016-10-03): OpenBSD 6.0, DragonFly BSD to support LibreSSL in ports, systemd denial of service bug, upgraded Mintbox Mini|
|• Issue 680 (2016-09-26): Uruk GNU/Linux 1.0, blocking applications at the firewall, Lenovo controversy, Ubuntu running on the Nextcloud Box|
|• Issue 679 (2016-09-19): OpenMandriva 3.0, 32-bit vs 64-bit performance, openSUSE updates, KaOS unveils first run wizard|
|• Issue 678 (2016-09-12): Apricity 07.2016, Mageia adopts DNF, KDE neon to use Wayland, FreeBSD updates Linux compatibility, creating cron jobs|
|• Issue 677 (2016-09-05): Peppermint OS 7, Manjaro updates leadership, TrueOS becomes rolling release, organizing files, creating torrents|
|• Issue 676 (2016-08-29): Korora 24, Fedora 25 to use Wayland by default, Linux turns 25, PC-BSD becomes TrueOS, finding software licensing information|
|• Issue 675 (2016-08-22): Gentoo LiveDVD "Choice Edition", moreutils, Ubuntu improves terminal convergence, MATE packaged for Openindiana, FreeBSD improves video support|
|• Issue 674 (2016-08-15): Zenwalk Linux 8.0, Ubuntu phone follow-up, Lubuntu transitioning to LXQt, Steam running on FreeBSD|
|• Issue 673 (2016-08-03): noop linux and EasyNAS, Debian's GnuPG switch, Fedora "Flock", using "nice"|
|• Issue 672 (2016-08-01): Ubuntu Phone 15.04, Solus embraces rolling release model, interview with Jane Silber, FreeBSD Quarterly Report|
|• Issue 671 (2016-07-25): Slackware 14.2, Point Linux 3.2, OpenBSD disables usermount, KaOS releases significant changes, Fedora 22 reaches end of life.|
|• Issue 670 (2016-07-18): Linux Lite 3.0, Bodhi team plans 4.0.0, pfSense changes licensing, running software across distributions, Linux Mint upgrade path|
|• Issue 669 (2016-07-11): Linux Mint 18, proving a system is secure, LibreSSL in FreeBSD, Ubuntu plans phasing out 32-bit, pfSense status report|
|• Issue 668 (2016-07-04): Fedora 24, Linux Mint plans for 18.1, FreeBSD and DragonFly BSD improve their file systems, comparing Flatpak, Snap and AppImage|
|• Issue 667 (2016-06-27): GeckoLinux 421, Fedora supports Flatpak, Solus unveils new features, running GNU/Linux on tablets|
|• Issue 666 (2016-06-20): Comparing more live update methods, Ubuntu's snap packages, Antergos drops 32-bit media, GeckoLinux unveils Rolling edition, learning Linux resources|
|• Issue 665 (2016-06-13): BunsenLabs Linux Hydrogen, Fedora 24 delayed, NetBSD grows in size, Clonezilla questions|
|• Issue 664 (2016-06-06): Sabayon 16.05, Debian updates install media, the cost of free software, Qubes explains secure build process|
|• Issue 663 (2016-05-30): Comparing live update methods, Ubuntu MATE's progress, distros debate systemd change, DistroWatch turns 15|
|• Issue 662 (2016-05-23): Clonezilla Live, new Fedora community repository, DragonFlyBSD runs Wayland, a live edition of Slackware and kernel components|
|• Issue 661 (2016-05-16): FreeBSD 10.3, OpenMandriva adopts Clang, Debian adds ZFS packages, PCLinuxOS drops 32-bit and comparing CentOS with RHEL|
|• Issue 660 (2016-05-09): Ubuntu MATE 16.04, Mint's xapps, FreeBSD Quarterly Report, Debian updates 32-bit support, addressing GPL violations|
|• Issue 659 (2016-05-02): Ubuntu 16.04, compiling custom kernels, Cinnamon 3.0, Sabayon launches ARM build, Devuan ships Beta release|
|• Issue 658 (2016-04-25): Kali Linux 2016.1, elementary OS 0.3.2, Debian elects Project Leader, Fedora 24 feature preview, Nard reaches 1.0|
|• Issue 657 (2016-04-18): Redox, Linux Mint improves update manager, planned Fedora 24 features, Ubuntu 16.04 getting Snappy packages|
|• Issue 656 (2016-04-11): Qubes OS 3.1, Whonix offers bug bounties, Puppy's family tree, setting up disk partitions and running bash on Windows|
|• Issue 655 (2016-04-04): Parsix 8.5, Sabayon's Community repository, Red Hat offers free subscriptions, Ubuntu tablets, command line tips|
|• Issue 654 (2016-03-28): PCLinuxOS 2016.03, Using signatures to create a web of trust, Arch Linux rolls out Pacman update, GuixSD packages GNOME|
|• Issue 653 (2016-03-21): Antergos 2016.02.21, Debian prepares for election, a Unix-like OS written in Rust, watching Netflix on FreeBSD|
|• Issue 652 (2016-03-14): ReactOS 0.4.0, Debian swaps Iceweasel for Firefox, Fedora moving forward with Wayland, Verifying ISO files|
|• Issue 651 (2016-03-07): Korora 23, Linux Mint improves security, Ubuntu MATE on Raspberry Pi 3 computers, trying different file systems|
|• Issue 650 (2016-02-29): Haiku in 2016, running Android apps on GNU/Linux, 30 years of MINIX, Fedora plans Atomic Workstation|
|• Issue 649 (2016-02-22): Zorin OS 11, openSUSE launches new editions, Linux Mint website compromised, sandboxing applications using Firejail|
|• Issue 648 (2016-02-15): XStream Desktop 153, Raspbian unveils OpenGL feature, free hardware, Ikey Doherty talks desktop design|
|• Issue 647 (2016-02-08): Tails 2.0, KDE project launches Neon, Manjaro unveils ARM support, FreeBSD's quarterly report|
|• Issue 646 (2016-02-01): deepin 15, Mint plans X-Apps, FreeBSD to support boot environments, logging into the desktop as root|
|• Issue 645 (2016-01-25): Linux Mint 17.3 "Xfce", Chromixium changes its name, Ubuntu tablets coming soon, Linux vs BSD comparision|
|• Issue 644 (2016-01-18): Kwort 4.3, Sabayon tests ARM images, Slackware adopts PulseAudio, running Linux without GNU software|
|• Issue 643 (2016-01-11): Solus 1.0, Mint provide upgrade path to 17.3, Fedora developers work on stability, running the LXQt desktop|
|• Issue 642 (2016-01-04): paldo GNU/Linux, vetting distro repositories, Fedora plans to adopt GCC 6, Ian Murdock passes|
|• Issue 641 (2015-12-21): Arch Linux, Qubes OS to ship on Librem laptops, ALT offers start kit images, the spread of systemd and launchd|
|• Issue 640 (2015-12-14): Chakra GNU/Linux 2015.11, removing meta-data from files, Ubuntu to remove on-line dash searches|
|• Issue 639 (2015-12-07): OpenBSD 5.8, openSUSE gathers Summer of Code proposals, running WINE on a live disc, Enlightenment adds Wayland support|
|• Issue 638 (2015-11-30): Qubes OS 3.0, KaOS with Plasma, NetBSD 7.0, Fedora seeks Wayland testers, scheduling tasks|
|• Issue 637 (2015-11-23): NixOS 15.09, Antergos introduces ZFS support, MINIX shares new features, copying an OS to a new computer|
|• Issue 636 (2015-11-16): openSUSE 42.1, Fedora uses Wayland by default, Debian replaces live CD project, Steam consoles launch|
|• Issue 635 (2015-11-09): Fedora 23, Cinnamon 2.8 released, a Fedora KDE packager quits, Red Hat signs deal with Microsoft|
|• Issue 634 (2015-11-02): Ubuntu 15.10, Chakra upgrades to Plasma 5, OpenMandriva plans new editions, MINIX plans conference|
|• Issue 633 (2015-10-26): GhostBSD 10.1, Bodhi Linux to get new settings panel, Fedora 23 delayed, creating live image of existing OS|
|• Issue 632 (2015-10-19): Linux Lite 2.6, 32-bit build of CentOS, OpenBSD turns 20, Bodhi Linux releases AppPack|
|• Issue 631 (2015-10-12): Parsix 8.0, Manjaro seeks new artwork, sending commands to multiple servers, Debian drops LSB support|
|• Full list of all issues|
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