| DistroWatch Weekly
1 • On Mandriva release (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-13 09:53:57 GMT from Canada) |
Good lord, what am I doing up at this time. Well, I know what I'm doing. Reading the forums...
Anyhoo, if we're going for the unvarnished take on the 2009 release, I'd say it's slightly messy but not a disaster. (What does a disaster look like? 2006, that's what a disaster looked like.) A lot of the issues in the Errata fall into the category "Relatively minor KDE 4 issues that are ugly but have perfectly good workarounds". A lot more fit into the category "sloppy issue that has a perfectly good workaround and that you'll only ever have to deal with once". Looking through the contents quickly, I can only really see two serious issues that don't have really satisfactory workarounds: the Marvell drive controller issue and the issue with mounting encrypted partitions at boot.
So I'd say, unless you have a Marvell 88SE61 series drive controller or a MIGHTY NEED to encrypt your system partitions, you should be pretty safe installing 2009 at this point.
Of course, I'm biased. :)
2 • Ubuntu Tricks (by Anonymous on 2008-10-13 09:54:24 GMT from Switzerland)
The ubuntu tricks link
seems a bit dated. It refers to 5.10, which is 3 years old!
3 • 2 • Ubuntu Tricks (by ladislav on 2008-10-13 09:59:03 GMT from Taiwan)
You are right. That shows how desperate I was to find something interesting for the news section. It was another rather quiet week...
4 • Mandriva 2009 (by Caraibes on 2008-10-13 10:25:15 GMT from Dominican Republic)
You know, I enjoy Mandriva... Despite using mostly Debian (or derivative), I often have Mandriva in multiboot, or install it for some customers.
I was very glad with 2008.1 on customers PC's.
This week-end, I downloaded the "dual arch" Free 2009 iso, and installed it to my PC (amd64).
Being a Gnome guy, I went for the adventure of trying KDE4, to see how things are...
After booting in IceWM, I installed the KDE4 metapackage... Once in KDE. everything crashed all the time, mostly the app to install software... Firefox (with swf-dec) kept on hopelessly crashing...
My other ext3 partitions (Ubuntu & Arch)were not automatically mounted (if it was Slackware, I would understand, but Mandriva is supposed to do those things...)
Overall, it has a feeling of an Alpha release...
But I am confident you guys at Mandriva will publish necessary updates to fix all those bugs... Good luck !
5 • No subject (by Gustavo on 2008-10-13 10:29:46 GMT from United States)
The problem with Mandriva 2009, as I see it, is not hat it has one or two big show stoppers, but a lot of little annoyances and at least I cant find any clear instructions on how to fix them easily as Adam says.
If it is only a question of fixing trough the updates, that is a mess with multiple error messages.
So as in previous editions, I will hold on to 2008.1 until 2009.1.
6 • Mandriva 2009 KDE4 (by Gigi on 2008-10-13 10:35:05 GMT from United States)
I installed Mandriva 2009 KDE4One cd on my laptop and it worked well except for one manual intervention from my end (no xorg.conf, had to do drakx11 and accept the defaults and do service -f dm). Other that, it works as advertised.
The KDE4 desktop on 2009 is the most polished and integrated KDE4 upto date. To me, a bigger errata page is way too much better than a lot of bug reports. As long as I know the work-arounds, it doesn't matter.
Of course, I'm biased. :)
7 • KDE4 (by AbacusMonkey on 2008-10-13 10:41:29 GMT from Australia)
Speaking of KDE4, it has, for the most part, had some speed/stability issues. However, the best I have found it has been from the Debian Experimental repository. It installed without drama and starts/runs very quickly (even in a virtual machine).
8 • imagic OS (by Mac on 2008-10-13 10:47:05 GMT from South Africa)
... remember Linux XP?
in South Africa we say "Eish" to that kind of nonsense.
Linux that tries to hard to "be Windows" is going to give Linux a bad rep
because Linux is not Windows
9 • No subject (by Gustavo on 2008-10-13 10:47:46 GMT from United States)
"As long as I know the work-arounds, it doesn't matter."
Thats part of the problem, the workarounds are not easy to find, if they are out there. For example, it was supposed that gspca would work automatically, but it it doesn't work at all, and now it even doesn't install manually. I have searched high and low and didn't find any solution.
And I am biased too, I am using 2008.1.
10 • Mandriva 2009 (by jollyx on 2008-10-13 10:52:14 GMT from Spain)
Have upgraded 2008.1 to 2009 today. I don't know if it's KDE, Konqueror, distro or settings issue but now when opening "Google images" Konqueror shows the page source and not the image itself. Firefox do not has this problem.
Haven't played much with it yet.
11 • Zonbu (by Greg on 2008-10-13 10:55:04 GMT from Greece)
I think Zonbu is the only worthwhile item of this weeks DWW.
With Gentoo losing much of its glory i would like to know more than its pathetic from my point of view tells me.
A Gentoo based gos?
And still "commercial, Gentoo-based distribution that combines a robust, yet easy-to-use, Linux-based desktop environment" ?
And people sell that? But of course. If people sell gos why not that too.
12 • Re: 11 - Zonbu (by Greg on 2008-10-13 10:56:17 GMT from Greece)
I meant its patchetic commecrial website tells me :)
13 • @9 (by help on 2008-10-13 11:09:12 GMT from United Kingdom)
14 • Mandriva (by william on 2008-10-13 11:11:15 GMT from United Kingdom)
For me, Mandriva 2009 One KDE 4 works perfectly on my desktop and notebook. Everything worked out of the box which is impressive because some distros don't seem to play along nicely with my rig.
15 • Mandriva 2009 (by Dr.Saleem Khan on 2008-10-13 11:13:42 GMT from Pakistan)
Just within few hours of the official release I was on Mandriva 2009 KDE system with its "polished" looks but a "mute" system on my Sound BlasterAudigy sound card which always works with almost any distribution that I have tried in last many years and I could only fix by getting package "alsaconf" and little more tweaking around.
I read in a reponse to a review by a guy complaining that not many countries are inculded in the MandrivaOne versions so was the case for Pakistan.Afghanistan and India are there in the asian countries list but no mention of Pakistan that reflects Mandriva team thinks there are no potential users of Mandriva in Pakistan despite the fact the people either know RED HAT or Mandiva only here in Pakistan.So i set my locale to India.
I never felt at ease with Mandriva package management either in shell nor in GUI. I am an old timer apt-get/synaptic user and Mandriva team doesn`t recommend getting synaptic.
The Mandriva 2009 is polished and works fine for an average user and the KDE 4.1.2 is mostly stable.
I tested mklivecd and it didn`t` work. I would have stayed on Mandiva but somehow I always feel uneasy when it comes to package management other than apt.
Mandriva community is one of the most helping community I have seen and at the IRC #mandriva you rarely find yourself waiting for somebody to come and help you,you get help immediately.
After playing around with Mandriva 2009 for few hours I killed it with a grim heart and came back home with my custom made Kurumin NG 8.06 KDE 4.1.2 system which works for me at my ease and with my control upon it.
I am sure many Mandriva users will like this release but I feel somehow that Mandriva will never be a dekstop distribution of my choice and mostly because of its package management.
16 • Commercial Linux (by floppy on 2008-10-13 11:41:37 GMT from South Africa)
I dont see much value in commercial desktop OS - however I do see huge potential in management/provision system for the OS - I think RHN and landscape are examples of what i am looking for. But i think a vendor nuetral platform would be great!
17 • Various (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-13 11:56:45 GMT from Canada)
Thanks for all the comments, guys.
Caraibes, that's not normal (as in, one of the issues we're aware of happening to multiple people), unless it's a particularly nasty manifestation of a weird bug...does removing libcanberra0 fix it?
Gustavo, I try to cover the moderately important stuff multiple people run into on the Errata page, but it can't list everything...anything in particular you're struggling with? I'll see if I can help. The gspca drivers are definitely included in the kernel (they were merged into the upstream kernel in the 2.6.27 release). Does lsmod show a driver for your cam loaded? What exactly doesn't work?
Dr. Khan: if you installed One, it's unfortunately a known bug that each One image doesn't list all possible countries. We know they should all list *all* countries (in case you want to use English language but still want it to know where you live), but it's actually a rather hard problem to fix. We know it looks bad, but it's not an intentional slight, honestly! If you used Free or PWP, Pakistan should show up, I believe. Do let me know if it doesn't.
Sorry you decided to go back to Kurumin but I'm glad you liked 2009 overall :).
18 • Momonga 5 (by BlueJayofEvil on 2008-10-13 11:59:16 GMT from United States)
I fondly remember trying Momonga 4 over a year ago. Momonga 5, however, was disappointing to say the least. It suffered from the same issue I had with Fedora 9 - The installer's video driver was not adequate for my nVidia GeForce 8600 GTS. The screen was stretched, distorted, and my monitor told me this was not optimal. On top of that, the package selection is quite disappointing as well. The only CD/DVD burner software for it is the Nautilus CD/DVD burner extension app. And on top of all this, my sound refused to work no matter what settings I tried. All other distro's have flawlessly working sound on my computer.
And I was really disappointed to see the old artwork was gone (not even in the list of wallpapers to choose from). I know it's loosely based on Fedora, but Fedora 9 was not a decent choice to buld upon, IMO.
19 • Mandriva Ubuntu & Linuxes... (by flojlg on 2008-10-13 12:10:59 GMT from France)
Beyond Mandriva or other distros it's quite obvious we miss of Desktop innovation around.
Ok mandriva is quite buggy but I begin to be bored by the lack of something exiting,
Ubuntu, Mandriva, suze... distros look all the same, and I feel realy despointed..
20 • One 2009 (by Edwin on 2008-10-13 12:14:28 GMT from Australia)
Installed Mandriva One 2009 onto my budget laptop and all has gone well apart from an occaisional bug where it does not shut down properly and hangs. I think including KDE4 was the right decision but a guide for newbies and people like me who have waited to see KDE4 grow stable would be nice e.g. I accidently deleted the firefox quicklink and can't seem to get it back. While Ubuntu is nice, Mandriva is the only distro (apart from maybe Mint or openSUSE) that I would suggest to a new user...
21 • Joke? (by Jonas on 2008-10-13 12:21:29 GMT from Sweden)
I looked around at the site of the new distro, iMagic OS. Who is behind the name Ty Coon? Is it Mr Bodnar giving us a practical joke or is it just as bad as it looks? Take a look and comment!
22 • CDLinux development platform? (by Curiosity on 2008-10-13 12:30:27 GMT from France)
Does anybody know which toolchain CDLinux is built on?
It is neither documented nor downloadable on their website. Knowing this would be quite helpful to add some packages to the limited base on the generic live CD.
The 0.5 versions were built on Slackware 9.1, I believe, but I haven't found the equivalent information for the latest releases.
23 • Mandriva 2009 #2 (by jollyx on 2008-10-13 12:30:55 GMT from Spain)
"Using sub-URLs with http is not supported."
That's what Konqueror on my Mandriva 2009 says. As I said earlier I haven't played much with it yet. Also appeared a second Amarok icon on the Menu. That's what I have noticed at a first glance.
24 • Debian Lenny Release (by maconulaff on 2008-10-13 12:36:50 GMT from United States)
I am a Debian fan because they will wait until a release is ready before releasing it. I am less concerned with a release schedule than being sure the product is ready. For those who are willing to live on the edge, there is a testing version. Stable should mean just that. The Debian folks understand that - and that is why I love Debian.
25 • Another Ubuntu bug to watch (by Duhnonymous on 2008-10-13 12:42:33 GMT from United States)
Here's one that every noob is going to complain about if it doesn't get fixed:
You put in a CD, eject it and it automatically reinserts.
26 • @25 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-13 12:46:35 GMT from Canada)
That's not a bug, it's a feature - Reflex Honing With Ubuntu.
27 • Mandriva 2009 (by Mayank on 2008-10-13 12:47:15 GMT from United States)
I was really excited to try out mandriva 2009, after happily using 2008.1. But to my utter dissapointment, I had the most torrid time getting mandriva to work. Live cd would boot fine, and installation as always was a breeeze. But that was the end of the good times. On the first boot, a few questions were asked and a polished kde desktop came up. But the most important tools failed to work. MCC and firefox wouldnt start from menu or from console. I had to start them from console from root login.. MCC would crash with errors when trying to update/add/remov software. Firefox crashed with a segmentation fault. I couldnot login as root from KDM, since the administrator mode is disabled in KDM configuration in KDE system-setting app. It all ended up as a chicked-egg problem. Finally I removed mandriva and will wait for mandriva 2009.1
From the reviews, it looks I was the only one to face these troubles...I hope 2009.1 works for me.
All the best guys!
28 • Package management cheatsheet (by Anonymous on 2008-10-13 12:54:32 GMT from Finland)
Source-based distros Gentoo, Lunar, and Source Mage were added to the package management cheatsheet. That's marvelous! But I'd like to suggest two minor adjustments, concerning Source Mage's "Sorcery" package manager, that I think would even further improve the cheatsheet.
If you use the command "gaze search pkg" to search by package name, then Sorcery searches both from the package names and also from their descriptions. But you can also use the command "gaze search -name pkg", which is much quicker because it only searches from the package names (and not from the package descriptions).
The Sorcery package manager also provides a command for searching by file name: "gaze from file". The exact path to the location where the file is installed is optional and can be omitted.
Admittedly, the Source Mage Wiki page for the "gaze" command lacks some of these finer details. But the man pages that come with the Source Mage GNU/Linux installation include more detailed information about the package management commands, and they're definitely worth checking out after you've installed Source Mage.
29 • If you want to use Lenny (by Dick Cheney on 2008-10-13 12:58:03 GMT from United States)
What I have done recently is install AntiX. Then I installed gnome-desktop and various apps from the Lenny repositories. Works great. It's by far the most responsive desktop I've ever used, even though it's on a six-year old computer. Everything I need to install is free of major bugs, and given that the Lenny packages are frozen, it is unlikely things will break in the future.
30 • Mandriva 2009 - too early (by genetics73 on 2008-10-13 13:07:28 GMT from United States)
And still no sound - even though 2008 distro worked perfectly. Add to that the printer annoyance, and the fact that little things are missing, and you have a picture of a rushed release.
31 • iMagic OS (by Jan Stedehouder at 2008-10-13 13:12:18 GMT from Netherlands)
I do hope you are joking Ladislav. This is even worse than some other remasters I criticized on my website. If it isn't a joke, please reconsider. This is horrible and not worth being mentioned on any Linux-related website. Heck, half of the EULA is proprietary, there is no source code and none of the other key requirements you normally look for.
32 • What Happened to PCLinuxOS??? (by Dr.Saleem Khan on 2008-10-13 13:36:04 GMT from Pakistan)
The last news I read about PCLinuxOS was that Texstar and his team are planning to release a 2007.1 and then may be a 2008 laters but looks like the development speed is slow uptill now.
With the release of Mandriva 2009 now with KDE 4.1.2 are you we expecting "anything" from PCLinuxOS side?
Would any of the PCLinuxOS team member like to "unofficially" "sorta release" any latest development plans and news here for those who are using PCLinuxOS and are expecting any upgraded version of it??
33 • Linux package management cheatsheet (by Dave Backus on 2008-10-13 13:36:39 GMT from United States)
Am I missing something here? I have yet to see anything on Synaptic Package Manager. I always thought it was one of the top managers? I still use it with PCLinuxOS.
34 • Mandriva 2009.0 (by Gary Olson at 2008-10-13 13:47:52 GMT from United States)
FWIW, 2009 installed and operates almost flawlessly on my 2-month-old quad-core all-sata Dell desktop, the one and only problem being that k9copy won't intall... yet. 1.5 years experience with about 30 Linux distros and this is the very best thus far. I would have stopped all distro-hopping after installing openSUSE 11.0 (I really liked it!) until after a few updates which created a slight problem with their KDE desktop, it stopped working altogether. This was duplicated on my other system. Pity. Mandriva 2009 seems to have lit my fire as SUSE 11.0 did. With fingers crossed...
35 • Linux package management cheatsheet, part 3 (by Marcelo on 2008-10-13 13:59:37 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Whats happend with the BSD´s, like FreeBSD, PC-PSD, ... ?
Or the BSD´s are excluded ?
36 • SUSE correction (by Gary Olson at 2008-10-13 14:03:25 GMT from United States)
Oops! My comment (#34 above) about SUSE 11.0 not working after a few updates was off. I just remembered it was actually SUSE 11.1 BETA2. Sorry.
37 • Re: 25 (by BlueJayofEvil on 2008-10-13 14:42:24 GMT from United States)
The auto-reinsert bug happens on a lot of distro's. From sidux to Ubuntu to Sabayon. Many of the forums of each of the distro's I've tried mention this bug. I'm surprised it hasn't been fixed yet. It is very annoying, especially when ripping many audio cd's.
38 • Debian&Mandriva releases (by Gabriel on 2008-10-13 14:46:39 GMT from Poland)
I'm a Debian user - I'm running Etch on my company's notebook.
I also tested Mandriva 2008, 2008.1 - I bought Mandriva with my notebook as an OEM system.
I have to say, that after the nightmare that the "friendly distribution" prooved to be, I'm willing to wait another year for Lenny, even if it means that my damned sound card isn't working.
Mandriva should seriously rethink it's quality control processes. The whole system is a joke in my opinion. I wasted more than 100PLN on the software. It isn't much, but I know a better way of spending it :(.
39 • Mandriva 2009 - worked perfectly for me (by Muhammad Fahd Waseem on 2008-10-13 14:53:09 GMT from Pakistan)
I have just used Mandriva, and I can't see what the fuss is all about. For me, this was probably the best out-of-the-box distro yet. It even picked my graphics card correctly, when I have to wrestle with all other distros for the same...
40 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-10-13 14:54:11 GMT from Canada)
yes , why havent you included pclinuxos in the package guide - synaptic rulez
pclinuxos users failing to realise that synaptic is a front end for apt is what happens when you target a distro at windows users
41 • wep vs wpa (by phillip s. on 2008-10-13 14:55:45 GMT from United States)
momonga has no user forums - question here ok? hope so:
the installation is smooth like fedora's is (obviously) and it detected my realtek 8187b network adaptor.
i could not however link to internet because my router is wpa-psk security and momonga only has settings for wep encription.
i do not with to downgrade my security - so, how to get wpa support in momonga?
thank you if you can help. :)
42 • @40 (by Anonymous on 2008-10-13 14:57:05 GMT from United States)
hilariously true. Couldn't have answered it better.....
43 • Mandriva No.1 (by 4A4350 on 2008-10-13 14:58:38 GMT from Mexico)
iMagicOS: Must be a joke, I don't think I would use a linux distro that didn't had at least a decent website, an elementary school kid could do better.
PCLinuxOS: A great distro (Mandriva based) but on my DSL connection it takes me four and a half hours (if my brother is not using his computer) to get my system up to date (to me pclos is dead, moving to Mandriva).
Mandriva 2009: Definitely the best easy to use distro (right now downloading mandriva 2009 free edition), ubuntu sucks, osx86 worked better than ubuntu for me, i was only missing sound (no driver) but i couldn't even install ubuntu (that must tell us something).
44 • RE: 41 wep vs wpa (by ladislav on 2008-10-13 15:02:39 GMT from Taiwan)
They don't have a forum, that's true, but they have an English mailing list:
45 • No subject (by smartjak on 2008-10-13 15:08:34 GMT from United States)
Re: 24 •" Debian Lenny Release (by maconulaff on 2008-10-13 12:36:50 GMT from United States)
I am a Debian fan because they will wait until a release is ready before releasing it. I am less concerned with a release schedule than being sure the product is ready. For those who are willing to live on the edge, there is a testing version. Stable should mean just that. The Debian folks understand that - and that is why I love Debian."
Double amen on that! This is one of Debian's strong suites. Get used to it. It will be released when it's ready. And not before!
Oh, one other thing, Debian's Testing branch is very stable in my opinion. Much more than the official release of other distros. Been using Lenny since the early part of '07.
46 • Ref# 35 * Yes BSD on the Cheatsheet (by Verndog on 2008-10-13 15:14:18 GMT from United States)
Yes, I agree. It would be nice to see some BSD's on the next cheatsheet.
47 • Two comments about zypper (by Gabriel Miretti on 2008-10-13 15:17:03 GMT from Argentina)
* About Update existing software:
48 • Installed Mandriva 2009, Puppy 4.1, and CDlinux (by Brian Masinick on 2008-10-13 15:29:45 GMT from United States)
Over the past week, I have either downloaded or updated Mandriva 2009, Puppy 4.1, and CDlinux 0.62. I am quite pleased with all three of them, based on their current level of maturity. In the case of Mandriva, it was a calculated risk to press forward with KDE 4 in this release. Though perhaps not everything is perfect, I can tell you that I tried out Beta test releases and found no glaring defects, so I was comfortable upgrading when the release came out. I noticed a few dialog boxes that indicated errors, but they seemed more related to the update process than they did to any serious damage. After the upgrade, the desktop ran just fine, and I verified it with KDE 3, KDE 4, XFCE, and IceWM. All of them performed basic tasks without any issues at all. Worthwhile risk and a positive end result.
I am very pleased at where Puppy 4.1 is at now. Still checking in at under 100 MB, this Live CD is still capable of fully loading into RAM and running very quickly. The size I believe that I downloaded was 94.1 MB. The wireless setup is now neatly integrated into the Network Setup Wizard, even for WPA-PSK functionality. Previously you could achieve WPA-PSK functionality but you had to run a separate utility to do so. All of that is now taken care of. Barry can now move on to other things, comfortable and confident that he has put together a really useful system.
CDlinux, though still in its infancy, is already showing very positive signs of what it can do and what it may be able to do better in the future. One weakness it has right now is that it does not have a lot of system management utilities. For example, it has the wpa_cli and the wpa_supplicant files to set up WPA-PSK like Puppy does, but it does not contain any easily located tool to assist in that setup. What it does offer is a compact size that is comparable to DSL - around 57 MB, yet it offers a modern desktop in XFCE and a fast implementation. I look forward to using this more as it continues to mature.
49 • Lenny release (by Fifer Pig on 2008-10-13 15:33:55 GMT from Germany)
Debian "Lenny" 5.0 has currently about 200 RC bugs that need to be fixed. A week ago the number of RC bugs was around 270. There's still a long way to go but the release is definitely coming closer...
50 • Mandriva works for me. :) (by Maik on 2008-10-13 15:44:12 GMT from Germany)
I installed 2009.0 and this Mandriva release works perfectly well with my hardware (ran into only one probable bug in brasero) - but then ... I use Gnome and not KDE. :)
A big thank you for Mandriva for yet another IMO good release.
51 • Two comments about zypper (in openSUSE 11.0) (by Gabriel Miretti on 2008-10-13 15:44:34 GMT from Argentina)
* About "Update existing software":
there are a mistake. For example:
~ # zypper update -t MozillaFirefox
Unknown resolvable type 'MozillaFirefox'.
The correct "meta-command" is "zypper update -t package MozillaFirefox". For example:
~ # zypper update -t package MozillaFirefox
Reading installed packages...
No update candidate for 'MozillaFirefox'.
Nothing to do.
* About "List installed packages":
"rpm -qa" is correct, but doesn't provide any information about from which repository it was installed. That information is provided by zypper: "zypper search -is"
The "Linux package management cheatsheet" is a great idea. I'm a big fan of Distrowatch. Keep the good work.
PD: Can the admin remove my previous incomplete commentary, please?
52 • RE:43#, Another good bug report. (by Eddie Wilson on 2008-10-13 15:55:17 GMT from United States)
#43 said; "ubuntu sucks, osx86 worked better than ubuntu for me, i was only missing sound (no driver) but i couldn't even install ubuntu (that must tell us something)"
Who is us? Maybe something did work better than Ubuntu for you but that doesn't mean that something sucks. Anyway how do you know it sucks if you didn't install it? It makes you sound like a little school kid. Maybe you have some off the wall hardware or you didn't do something correct. I guess we'll never know since all your bug report consisted of "ubuntu sucks". These kids make me laugh.
(not an Ubuntu user at this time)
53 • Mandriva 2009 and Zonbu (by Desmond Cox on 2008-10-13 16:06:00 GMT from Canada)
Another fine DWW, Ladislav; keep up the good work!
I've been itching to try the new Mandriva release for a while, but I may just hold off now. The last two times I've loaded Mandriva, I've been turned off by an overall lack of polish, in my opinion: spelling mistakes/poor grammar/mixed capitalization, ugly dialog boxes, etc. These are trivial things, I know, but I've they bug the hell out of me in any "stable" and "professional" release.
I want to give Mandriva a chance! Maybe 2009.1?
Also, I wanted to mention the new "Zonbu" distro added to the waiting list. I've used this crap only briefly when it came pre-installed on one of their small form factor PCs we ordered for a number of kiosks. I start it up, open the command line, and start exploring... Here's how that went:
Access denied? Uh oh! Access denied! OH NO!!! ACCESS DENIED!
What am I supposed to do with this thing? They lock you out of anything "fun" and expect you to "register" for more features, was what I gathered. I felt like I was using Windows, but somehow it was more useless.
To be fair, the online services sounded cool, they offered some kind of tech support (after registering), and their update mechanism was simple and effective. I thought, "this is something I'd install for my mom..."
Not so for me, though. I quickly wiped the drive and loaded our custom Debian Live image onto it. *Phew!*
This was over six months ago, by the way... maybe things have changed since then?
Also, the mini PC was great! I've nothing against their hardware: a wonderful little PC for a decent price.
54 • Mandriva 2009.0 (by kell on 2008-10-13 16:12:00 GMT from United Kingdom)
I've used Mandriva for the past few releases without any issues on my hardware and Was really looking forward to the 2009.0 KDE4 release. Unfortunately it turned into the most difficult installation yet.
The livecd froze booting up, I've got the ATI problem (first time for any livecd in years).
Once I got to the desktop the live install seemed to go fine, all the hardware was detected and working.
The problems started when I rebooted to the HDD install. Couldn't find the fglrx driver (livecd had no problem), no sound, no network (again, no problems on the livecd).
Tried restarting the network service, it reported it couldn't find the correct module version under /lib/modules.
It was trying to find a folder from my 2008.1 kernel which had automounted (I was installing 2009.0 on the subsequent partition on the same disk). I've no idea how it managed to detect the kernel from that partition.
The fix was to format the old 2008.1 partition, and reinstall completely.
On a more positive note everything works beautifully now.
I'm suprised it was released with the problems it has. Most releases seem to be delayed a few days or a week recently, was it so important to deliver it that day?
The released ISO is the first and in some cases last impression users will have of the distribution, and company, for the next six months. In some cases that will be a blank screen, frozen boot up and a webpage telling them to setup their own xorg.conf for hardware that has been supported for years.
I think I would push out a 2009.0.1
55 • IMagic OS (by Frank on 2008-10-13 16:12:35 GMT from United States)
Bad very bad Ladislav, Are you going to accept any thing to your web page? even if they are in violation of GPL!
56 • RE #35 • Linux package management cheatsheet, part 3 (by Distronator on 2008-10-13 16:15:04 GMT from Germany)
Well, it is a LINUX package management cheat sheet, after all.
I wouldn't mind a BSD cheat sheet but your request is akin to asking for why bicycles aren't included in the top ten list of the greatest cars of 2008. Or vice versa, you'll get the drift.
57 • iMagic OS (by Stuart on 2008-10-13 16:17:57 GMT from United Kingdom)
If you look at the screenshots for "iMagic OS", they've labelled the shortcuts to the various OpenOffice components (writer, calc etc.) as Word, Excel, Powerpoint. Apart from being untrue and confusing to users (who would expect Word etc.), surely this is in violation of Microsoft copyright.
58 • No subject (by Dick Cheney on 2008-10-13 16:29:25 GMT from United States)
From the imagic page:
"Hard. It is hard, paticularly for new users, to install software on Ubuntu, and it has a relatively small selection of available software, that can only be installed either from a cluttered, complicated package manager, or from the shell."
In addition to what was commented above, this makes them seem pretty sleazy to me.
59 • On Using Lenny (by ZBREAKER on 2008-10-13 16:32:27 GMT from United States)
I installed Lenny from one of the current snapshots about a month or so ago. Despite the still beta state I've yet to experience any problems or difficulties...even got my Nvidia drivers installed without difficulty. Debian is a beautiful thing!
60 • Correction: package management cheatsheet (by Anonymous on 2008-10-13 17:48:04 GMT from United States)
For Gentoo, a better solution to querying the package database is to install portage-utils. This can do neat tricks like list installed packages, find packages that use some USE flag, list files owned/installed by a package, or look up which package installed a certain file, and much more.
To list all installed packages, just run:
(That's a capital i, not an L.)
It's best to install portage-utils if you want to do any kind of querying work, as it's extremely fast. We actually have a document available here:
61 • @ iMagicOS (by Martin Ultima on 2008-10-13 18:10:19 GMT from United States)
I'm glad they're running ads here.
Keep clicking 'em.
Click them into oblivion.
In fact, let's sing the "click iMagicOS's ads all day" song:
Get behind a proxy, and click 'em some more!
Click 'em all anonymously (courtesy of Tor)!
Click 'em 'til your hands tire, like you do of this verse!
Click 'em, cause remember, it comes right out of their purse!
(You can tell my lyrical skills are about as good as their site design.)
Seriously. They're bound to run out of advertising money eventually, meantime you're creating a nice little profit for Ladislav to help support this site :-)
62 • Re: 34 (by Constant Observer2 on 2008-10-13 18:21:35 GMT from United States)
Mr. Gordon, I absolutely agree with your findings about using Mandriva 2009.0 and the other very positive comments which have followed, as I'd commented just last week about having the same results with a Q6700 quad core, all sata and nvidia. It also appears that we've been traveling on the very same path in regard to your comments about all those distros you've tested, and about how you came from SUSE 11.0 to Mandriva 2009.0.......exactly the same!
.........Keeping fingers crossed too.
63 • Cheatsheet (by Matías on 2008-10-13 18:49:24 GMT from Argentina)
thak you for this great cheatsheet Ladislav. Im really having fun using zypper instead of yast. I must say I'm impressed.
Although Arch's pacman seems to be the fastest I tried yet.
64 • Mandriva 2009 (by genetics73 on 2008-10-13 18:59:10 GMT from United States)
And still no sound
65 • does iMagicOS remind anyone else of... (by PastorEd at 2008-10-13 19:16:21 GMT from United States)
XDefine Linux? It was a vaporware outfit a few years ago, and some of the slogans on the iMagicOS site seem almost word for word the same as the old XDefine stuff.
The one about "There are no viruses, trojans, or malware that have been written for iMagic OS." is the one that's setting off my memory... anyone else?
(still misses JAMD LInux...)
66 • iMagicOS (by Caitlyn Martin on 2008-10-13 19:26:28 GMT from United States)
iMagicOS wrote to me, offering me a free DVD if I'd review their distro. I took a goo dlook around their website, saw what others above have seen, and politely declined. I have no interest in reviewing anything closed or proprietary.
They are definitely pushing their marketing, both paid and free...
67 • Mandriva 2009 (by MacLone on 2008-10-13 20:03:35 GMT from Mexico)
Mandriva 2009 gnome:
Look ma' no printer setup!
what a joke... If it was not ready don't release it period.
68 • Another Mandriva 2009 experience (by Steve at 2008-10-13 20:16:15 GMT from United Kingdom)
Within hours of release I was booting from 2009 One. On my multi-install, AMD X2 core / nvidia card machine into a 1440x900 monitor - DOA. No X.
OK, so over to an old Dell Inspiron. Seems OK, yet app crashes and feature failures resulted in my shutting down (which hung).
Nothing wrong with 2008.1 so staying with that. :)
69 • Mac Power PC Distros need updated in your search (by ChiJoan on 2008-10-13 20:19:42 GMT from United States)
A short while ago I came across a Mac G4 tower at a bargain price as there was no OS to boot up on it. I thought great, now I can test some of the Linux Power PC distros out. Well your search leads to some dead Web pages or those that no longer support the platform.
So far I tested the only Linux Live CD I could find for the platform, Ubuntu 6.06. Thank you, I found out my $15.00 was a good bargain after all. I boosted the RAM to 1 gig and tried an OpenSuse 11 Power PC install. It gave me a start when I couldn't get on the Web. Duh! Check the Cat5 cable, a little humor there...OK, I put in the cable and checked to see if it would work, not yet I had to reboot before it would connect. No updates found, now I know it's not a '386 or higher CPU-based distro. Otherwise OpenSuse did a good job, I cannot say Fedora 9 or Debian did as well on this system. I don't know if it's my newbie status with the Power PC platform, but I think Fedora and Debian need to work on its ATI driver and yaboot. For awhile I thought the DVD drive had went bad, but Ubuntu still booted on it.
I hope the Linux developers don't forget this platform, as it still has lots of potential. Even more so, as the next Apple Mac OS X is reported to drop the Power PC platform. It's not likely that I'll pick up more of these until Adobe sees the Linux Power PC a viable platform for their ActiveX. Kids and seniors want to play Web games after all.
Thanks for Another great newsletter,
70 • Numb Nuts (by jack daniels esq on 2008-10-13 20:20:41 GMT from South Africa)
Yeah - think I know who ya mean .... KD
But thats OK - he just a dumb kid ..
No malice aforethought
71 • PowerPC distro (by defraz on 2008-10-13 20:45:51 GMT from Italy)
on my ibook i have fedora 9, all working - very slow flash however.
Before i had debian unstable - all working too.
Probably i would stick with debian lenny, but i love fedora now ;)
Btw, ati driver work flawlessy, compiz and all the stuff.
Only problem is, kde4 has screwed colors (blu and orange inverted, very strange on firefox icon ;) ) both in debian and in fedora, and also klash plugin in debian (all blu). I think all these are endianess problems, any other found color problems?
72 • Mandriva (by Nobody important on 2008-10-13 21:09:00 GMT from United States)
I used 2008.1 briefly; I suspect my poor performance was courtesy of a bad CD burn. Either way, I decided to wait until 2009 to burn another one, thanks to KDE 4.
I haven't burnt the CD yet, but I strongly support Mandriva and their forward thinking. If the top ten distros do anything, it becomes standard for the rest; Mandriva's fairly high quality with KDE 4, while not the quality of previous releases, is still pretty darn high. This is exciting, and means that everyone else will be following closely behind.
Puppy Linux 4.1 is a great release; just a few new programs and enhancements, but a fine little distro that deserves a fine little update. I'm using it full time on a computer that refuses to boot off the hard drives, and it works wonderfully.
iMagicOS looks interesting. By interesting, I mean hilarious.
73 • 2008.1 (by Mattias on 2008-10-13 21:09:55 GMT from Sweden)
Mandriva is a wonderful distro and I realize that somehow hard to beat it's own work.
The Mandriva 2008.1 was the best release any vendor have done since linux-distributions was borned. The rocksolid 2008.1, with enterprise quality, only consists of stabile and mature packages from it's day it was released. People really enjoy quality before untested new software. The 2008.1 was a top-quality release!!!, showing the world how a perfect consumer-OS should look like. I still recommend people to use this one before any later/other releases.
Therefore, I don't know the reason to make the new 2009.0 so bleeding edge and include software like KDE 4.1.2 which is NOT ready for prime time. The OOo 3.0 RC2 is NOT ready yet for professional use. Mandriva better should continue to build on the work with 2008.1 and stick to KDE 3.5.10 and OOo 2.4.1 until this software is ready, and offer this new, not-ready-to-use-versions, it only though the repro for those who wants it. Instead of putting so much time to integrate KDE 4 (with will not be ready before 4.2 or ever later...), Mandriva should focus more on quality-assurance and attentions to details, like it was with the wonderful 2008.1.
I like Mandriva, but will remain on 2008.1 and I really hope that 2009.1 will be a copy of 2008.1.
74 • @64 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-13 21:11:17 GMT from Canada)
Why do you keep re-posting the same thing over and over without apparently asking for help or providing any useful information so people can help you? Are you expecting the problem to magically fix itself?
75 • Linux Package management cheatsheet (by ram c on 2008-10-13 21:30:32 GMT from Philippines)
Thank you for these tables. I have been looking for equivalent command line tools between distros' package management utilities and your tables gathered them together in an easy to understand, organized manner. Can you please post a "printable" version of them so I can permanently have a hard copy I can easily refer to? Thanks again.
76 • iMagicOS (by KDulcimer on 2008-10-13 21:53:47 GMT from United States)
I'm a moderator on the PCLinuxOS forum, and I just wanted to point out that we had to remove several spam posts about iMagicOS and ban the user for spamming. Anybody heard of anything else on any other forums?
77 • Cheatsheet and Mandriva (by Sertse on 2008-10-13 22:30:31 GMT from Australia)
Nice initiative with that, good to see how even distros like Pardus that covered. It's such an underrated distro (well except for Turk users, where it comes from). Quite polished and Tasma is the nicest control centre I've seen.
I always heard this distro friendliness and OOTB easiness, but for some reason, it just doesn't do it for me, maybe it's the KDE? Might use the gnome version, that in my mind kinda defeats the purpose... an integrated KDE implementation is one of the highlights haha, all gnomes look the same.
Though: Mandriva gnome works just as well on netbooks right? I'm surprised not more people are using it. No matter your views on Mandriva, its only major distro with "native" support for netbooks.
78 • Cheat sheet (by RickH on 2008-10-13 22:33:53 GMT from United States)
Debian package management on your chart is woefully obsolete.
"Aptitude" used from the command line is now the officially endorsed package management system. I does not replace every apt command, but the average user will benefit greatly by replacing "apt-get" with "aptitude" and "apt-cache search" with "aptitude search".
Apt-get and apt-cache search no longer have a useful position in the Apt world.
79 • iMagicOS (by Anonymous on 2008-10-14 00:18:55 GMT from United Kingdom)
The website seems full of mis-information. When talking about Windows XP:
"Very Unstable. Many, many times, when using Windows XP, an application, or the whole Operating System, will freeze or crash, erasing any unsaved data."
Even those of us who solely use Linux will realise that is vastly untrue. Their whole website reads like a spam email.
80 • Absolute 12.1.08 already replaced by 12.1.09 (by DanceMan on 2008-10-14 00:55:37 GMT from Canada)
There was a bug in 12.1.08 and it's been fixed and released as 12.1.09.
I had just downloaded .08 when I saw that. Good thing, because while the .zip file I downloaded passed the MD5 check, the unzipped iso did not. Even after deleting it and redoing it, the result was the same. No such problem with .09 -- the unzipped iso was fine.
I didn't have any luck getting Absolute to work on an old PII laptop, or in getting it to pick up the ethernet card in an IBM PIII desktop. I'll give it another try on something with this release.
Enjoyed the generally positive tone prevailing on this week's comments.
81 • Mandriva 2009 (by BlueJayofEvil on 2008-10-14 01:11:40 GMT from United States)
I just installed Mandriva One 2009 and I must say it's quite impressive. Compiz-Fusion seems to run smoother than many other distro's I've tried, and apart from a few minor issues that I resolved with very little effort I must give credit to Mandriva for making a great release! I'm considering getting the Powerpack edition as well.
82 • apt-get debian (by Anonymous on 2008-10-14 01:38:40 GMT from United States)
"Update existing software apt-get install pkg"
Is this right?
83 • @68 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-14 02:30:26 GMT from Canada)
Sorry to be a fuddy-duddy but it's said to see "no X" equated with "DOA". =)
That was likely:
it's a dumb bug, but it does have a simple workaround.
I don't know why you'd get crashes on your other system, but maybe if you were more specific about what exactly crashed / failed, in what cases?
84 • Commercial Software On Distrowatch (by Hawkeye on 2008-10-14 02:35:53 GMT from United States)
To sadly paraphrase George Orwell's 'Animal Farm' regarding iMagic and Zonbu:
And they looked from Linux to Windows and from Windows to Linux, and they could not tell the difference....
Ladislav, I know you have to exercise some amount of journalistic impartiality when introducing products submitted to your website, but even a cursory review of those websites and their 'EULAs' send up so many yellow and red flags that I feel compelled to express my disgust at their inclusion.
I am saddened and disappointed if these commercial offerings are harbingers of future products that will grace this otherwise excellent website. iMagic and Zonbu represent everything I tried to leave when I left Windows over five years ago. Clearly, these are Windows wannabes, not true Linux distributions; they are subverting the honest sweat of Linux developers for personal and corporate greed. I guess what bothers me most is that the only thing that separates these products from Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian, Slackware, and a score of other true Linux distributions is the single caveat 'commercial' in their introduction. For some reason, more emotional than intellectual, this disturbs me greatly.
The longer I go on, the higher my soapbox. I have read the Mark Twain quote above your 'Submit comment' button and still feel compelled to post....
85 • New Puppy (by Warp0 on 2008-10-14 03:03:37 GMT from United States)
The new puppy is very nice, running it on an old Toshiba portege 7200 (PIII 650) with 320MB RAM and it just flies. No problems setting wireless up with my D-Link Atheros chip wireless card. A fine job!
86 • #84 Commercial distros (by RollMeAway on 2008-10-14 03:55:33 GMT from United States)
I tend to agree with Hawkeye. Generally I simply skip ALL distros wanting money before I even try their distro. I won't buy a "pig in a poke".
I almost didn't get to see the latest Vector release because of that. Luckily they came to their senses. I tried and liked VL5.9.1 SOHO, and to show my appreciation, I made a donation at their website. I have done similarly with about 6 other distros. Some more than one donation.
So, my feeling is: If the distro is good the users will support it, rather than see it disappear. If money comes first, they never make my list.
87 • #86, I generally agree, but one minor correction (by Caitlyn Martin on 2008-10-14 04:29:37 GMT from United States)
I generally agree with Hawkeye and RollMeAway (#86). One minor correction about Vector Linux: 5.9 Standard (and Light) were always free. You could always install Standard, add KDE and apps from the repo for free, and uninstall Xfce. You'd pretty much have had 5.9 SOHO at no cost. However, I suspect that push back from the community (folks like you) made the developers to decide to have a "standard" version of SOHO.
Vector has always had a Deluxe version with more goodies for sale. Of course most of those goodies are in the repo as well. The real reason anyone would buy Vector Linux Deluxe or SOHO Deluxe is to support the distro and the development efforts. Vector does not have large corporate backing like the "major" distros, just a really nice community effort that generally turns out well.
88 • #87 Vector Linux (by RollMeAway on 2008-10-14 04:42:32 GMT from United States)
Yes what you say is true. I have monitored or sampled Vector for years.
But the average use that might try the standard probably would not go to the trouble of
installing KDE and would miss many of the setup features that come with SOHO.
Vector is the distro that got me addicted to gkrellm. I feel lost without it now.
Curiously it did not come up with the default desktop this time.
Most distros just deliver the generic desktop. I really look for those that offer something new. Often it is an app already installed, that I just never took the time to check out.
89 • Amarok 2.0: Say it ain't so Joe (by MusicMan on 2008-10-14 04:50:00 GMT from United States)
Tried booting Mandriva 2009 One live CD. It froze during boot up on a two year old HP desktop that boots everything, including past versions of Mandriva. I was able to boot and install as a virtual machine using VirtualBox.
It seems sluggish compared to other distros I have used. I agree that it does have a beta feel. It does look very nice however.
My real reason for trying this version of Mandriva was to get a good look at Amarok 2. What a crushing and complete disappointment! My home PC is first and foremost a music box. Amarok 1.4 IMHO is simply the finest audio player in existence. In fact I will go one step further and say it is one of finest pieces of software ever produced! It is the program that brought me to Linux.
So what the heck happened? Were all of the Amarok developers replaced by pod people? It is as if Rolls Royce just rolled out a Yugo as this years new and better model. I do not understand how the same developers can get from Amarok 1.4 to Amarok 2.0.
The Amarok developers have gone down, way down, the wrong road with Amarok 2.0.
Is It just me or does anyone else see that Amarok 2.0 has gone very very wrong?
90 • Good internet/linux page (by Sergio Ramírez on 2008-10-14 05:22:48 GMT from Costa Rica)
Excelent work you do.
Always updated and with all the info that we need!
Keep it great!
91 • Re: 25 - Another Ubuntu bug to watch (by hobbitland on 2008-10-14 08:51:06 GMT from United Kingdom)
That is a HAL bug. HAL automounter can cause noisy floppy drives and CD/DVD drives that won't let you put a disc. With "autofs" devices are mounted when they are used and unmounted when finished. So you don't need to eject USB memory sticks.
I disable HAL and use "autofs".
chmod ugo-rwx /usr/lib/libhal-storage.so.*
Use "autofs" instead.
92 • iMagic (by Jonas on 2008-10-14 09:48:05 GMT from Sweden)
Looks like iMagic OS is removed from the "Latest News and Updates"-list.
93 • Mandriva (by Barnabyh on 2008-10-14 10:12:59 GMT from United Kingdom)
One of the biggest drawbacks of all these so called user or noob friendly distros are the dependencies. Far too many, for example I liked 2008.1 but as somebody who does not want any mono or dll stuff on my system and not particularly hot on all the desktop search and tracking fad, trying to uninstall Beagle (or libbeagle I think it was to be precise) took the whole KDE desktop with it. It's the same for Gnome.
Similar problems with Ubuntu and SUSE in the past, so it's best to use something that comes without mono apps in the first place, you can still add them if you want to. Debian and Slackware and friends are still the best for this IMO.
Folks, please, less dependencies if they are not necessary!
94 • Re: 84 • Commercial Software On Distrowatch (by Ariszló on 2008-10-14 10:58:52 GMT from Hungary)
I am also a bit shocked at the inclusion of iMagic when some of the most amusing distributions like CrunchBang, OzOs, or that parody of Puppy, Tmxxine, are still on the waiting list.
No problem with Zonbu, though. It has not been added to the database: it is patiently waiting on the waiting list.
95 • re 93 (by Anonymous on 2008-10-14 12:37:41 GMT from Canada)
If you don't want a Mono-less Mandriva do a minimal install (no desktop environment) and add KDE 4 with "urpmi task-kde-minimal" or Gnome with "urpmi task-gnome-minimal" or KDE 3 with "urpmi kdebase" or any other desktop environment with similar commands.
96 • 95 part 2 (by Anonymous on 2008-10-14 12:39:01 GMT from Canada)
I made a mistake in my previous post. It should read "If you want a Mono-less Mandriva". Sorry
97 • 94 (by Dick Cheney on 2008-10-14 14:17:36 GMT from United States)
I believe that a distro can buy advertising and get on the list. Nothing wrong with that, after all, I don't have to use it. I'm happy when pretty much anyone supports Linux news sites!
98 • Models (by Andy Dick on 2008-10-14 15:56:28 GMT from United States)
Which is the better model? The Ubuntu model, give it away for free but charge you big time for support. Or the Mandriva Power Pack commercial package, and yes I know they have a free version. Free version is little more than a "Home" edition.
The Ubuntu model got more copies into the hands of people before there was ever a Mandriva free edition. The bottom line is developers at Mandriva are under the gun working to develop free software, consumer products (like Mandriva USB loaded pendrives, etc.), and commercial/enterprise products.
The same developers who created the free version have to jump back into the commercial development product's frenzy and chaotic development seen and start cranking out new lines of code and features. Those developers, pretty much no fault of their own, have to cut corners in order to meet deadlines especially for the free version because Mandriva does not want to hurt its cash cow commercial line.
You may have to hold your breath for a longtime for Mandriva 2009 free edition bug fixes are a reality. Every distro has its issues and bugs including Ubuntu, you just need to determine if it is something you can live with or live without in many cases and if you trust that the company will fix it in a reasonable time frame.
The Ubuntu model uses a one shoe fits all approach. In part so that developers are not broken off into other areas pretty much. Ubuntu does not have commercial and free line of products but they do license out all of these " *-buntu's " you've been seeing. The Ubuntu CD you may have saw in the store is merely a commercially burned ISO copy which saves you some bandwidth if you have a slow connection and comes with a three month complementary tech support plan. The CD in the store offers no bleeding edge advantages over the download one.
Mandriva is feeling the pressure from Canonical (Ubuntu) and the stress of having both a commercial and free product. Also Mandriva alpha/beta testing period was relatively short and fast. This is why Mandriva Free 2009 is loaded with so many bugs.
99 • @93 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-14 16:15:01 GMT from Canada)
This is not accurate. Neither KDE nor GNOME in Mandriva has ever depended on Beagle, nor on Mono. Depending on whether it was set to need Beagle / Kerry, removing mono may have removed the 'task-gnome' or 'task-kde' packages, but that has no implication for functionality, they're empty meta-packages.
In 2009, nothing in KDE depends on Mono. In GNOME, the only apps that depend on Mono are those written in Mono - F-Spot, Tomboy, Beagle, all that stuff. You can remove them (or not install them), and Mono, and still have a perfectly good GNOME desktop.
The only tricky dependency is that Evolution depends on libmono0, but this is because we built Evolution with support for Mono plugins, and the support is badly written such that the main Evolution executable becomes directly linked against libmono. We have a bug filed upstream to change the way the support is written so this does not happen, and the dependency can be entirely isolated to a sub-package. Until that happens, it can't be done. But a libmono dependency is not really a big deal. So long as you don't actually use any plugins written in Mono, it will never be used.
Contrary to popular belief, distributions *do* care about dependencies.
100 • @98 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-14 16:20:50 GMT from Canada)
Andy, Andy, Andy, when are you going to stop stuffing up DWW every week with your off-topic, biased Mandriva vs. Ubuntu trolling?
You cannot compare the Mandriva and Ubuntu models for one fundamental reason: Ubuntu does not need to make money for a long time, and Ubuntu started off with an effective cash pile (Mark Shuttleworth's savings) several dozen times larger than Mandriva's entire historical budget. 'The Ubuntu model' sure gets a lot of copies into the hands of a lot of people - that's because it involves spending vast quantities of money to *mail* copies to people for free. How do you suggest we fund that?
To top it off, your entire premise is flawed.
"Or the Mandriva Power Pack commercial package, and yes I know they have a free version. Free version is little more than a "Home" edition."
This is utterly untrue. As I seem to have to keep telling you every single week, the only packages exclusive to the Powerpack are *commercial packages*. That means packages that are not only not Free Software, but are under licenses which do not permit unrestricted public redistribution. That means that NO-ONE - not us, not Canonical, no-one but the original owner - is allowed to distribute them for free. We could not put this stuff up in a public repository even if we wanted to.
For the tenth time, EVERY PACKAGE IN MANDRIVA WHICH WE CAN LEGALLY MAKE AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS IN A COMPLETELY FREE, PUBLIC REPOSITORY - either /main , /contrib, or /non-free. They are *all* available to any user of any Mandriva edition - paid-for or free - immediately after installation.
Is that clear enough yet?
The first time you posted this drivel, it could be excused simply as a misunderstanding. But every week, I correct you, and the next week you utterly ignore my correction and post the same incorrect and misleading misinformation again. It is starting to look extremely like malicious bad faith.
101 • @98 (by Zing! on 2008-10-14 16:57:33 GMT from United States)
The Ubuntu model got more copies into the hands of people before there was ever a Mandriva free edition.
Funny, I happen to remember installing and using a Free Mandrake long before Shuttleworth decided to take credit for all of Debian's work. I'm Glad the Canonical marketing machine of his has finally re-written history to exclude that fact, now we can get down to the important things like lipstick wearing pigs...
102 • No subject (by corneliu on 2008-10-14 17:04:40 GMT from Canada)
Ladislav, why do you allow trolls like this dick @98 to spread such stupidities? Why don't you remove stupid posts like 98 but you remove the legitimate angry replies to such posts? I'm not talking about this particular post but about previous posts that had been removed whilst the trolling posts remained posted.
103 • RE: 101, Point your anger in the right direction. (by Eddie Wilson on 2008-10-14 18:13:35 GMT from United States)
It seems in your post that you are blaming Shuttleworth for what was said in post #98. Your statement is really just silly. Where did you get your facts. Besides that Mark Shuttleworth did his time with Debian and he does give them credit. You can see that on the web. Now don't give more credit to the trolls that just try to start a flame war to divide all linux users. That is something we don't need. Now, back to the pigs.
104 • Mandriva 2009, astounding! (by Jerry B. on 2008-10-14 18:15:43 GMT from United States)
I had to come here and post this, just because this is the FIRST distro to install on this Toshiba laptop and CONFIGURE THE WIRELESS WITH NO INPUT FROM ME.
I apologise for the caps, but I am very happy to see this because I have been strugglng with distro after distro just to get the drivers/kernel and ndiswrapper to work, along with wpa supplicant, etc. . and I never did get it to work.
All I did with Mandriva 2009 was input my key's password and it found my router and network and here I am.
Good job, Mandriva team!!
105 • Mandriva 2009 (by Don G. on 2008-10-14 19:04:07 GMT from United States)
One of my first Linux distributions was Mandriva 2008 PowerPack and it is absolutely one of the best that I have tried and it's still one of the best available. I installed Mandriva One 2009 on a second hard drive and it works great. The only problem I had was having to go to Text mode to install it and having to download a patch for my printer.
Guys like Adam at Mandriva deserve a lot of credit for their work on Linux and we should all be more appreciative of their efforts. The way Adam responds to problems is amazing. Thanks a lot.
106 • Aptitude and iMagic (by Anon Jr. on 2008-10-14 19:26:05 GMT from United States)
Aptitude, like Synaptic and apt-get, is a front-end for dpkg. What's the difference? Apt-get is command-line, Aptitude is text-based (think midnight commander), and Synaptic is a GUI. They all do the same damn thing, pass commands to dpkg.
As far as iMagic, how the f/@k can that get listed and not UbuntuSE. Ladislav, your reasoning is now definitely as questionably as John McCain's. You list them as a Ubuntu derivative, yet a link on their site rips not Linux, but Ubuntu. WTF? Talk about sh!#!ng where you eat. I would have ripped Fedora or Slackware, simply because I'm not taking their work and trying to make money off of it (not that I dislike Fedora or Slackware, I'm just trying to make a point).
107 • Mandriva.. spoke too soon :( (by Jerry B. on 2008-10-14 19:40:05 GMT from United States)
This is something I guess I will never understand, and I have seen it posted in forums all over the world of linux distros: why would a perfectly good network connection suddenly vanish after a bit of use?
And why would it become not retrievable on that distro, but begin normaly on the same machine with the Windows Vista hard drive swapped back in, proving it is not the router, cable or whatever, but the distro. ??????????
I have seen this in Mint, Mepis, Fedora, Sabayon, etc.. what the hell??!! It just stops working, or will not work at all in most cases.
108 • @107 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-14 19:53:58 GMT from Canada)
Usually some kind of bug in the driver. It happens more often than you'd think with early quality driver code. If you think about it, it makes more sense: try an analogy. Things generally don't break until you use them. If you design a car engine shoddily it probably won't just fall apart when the car's turned off sitting on the pavement. You'll fire it up, it'll run nicely and you'll be happy with your new ride, then after a half hour of actual stressing use, it'll give out. That can be what happens to drivers, more or less, with some kind of bugs: they don't break until you use 'em for a while to expose the flaw. Sorry for the vague analogy, but it's the best I can come up with. :)
I can try and help you out with this but it would require some information to know what kind of hardware it is, what exactly goes wrong, and whether the flaw's in the driver or in the configuration somehow. If you're interested, please do contact me by email or post in the Mandriva forums. Thanks, and sorry for the problem.
109 • @103 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-14 19:56:05 GMT from Canada)
I'm sorry if I gave that impression, but I'm not quite sure what it is in my post that would give that impression: all I said was that Canonical's basic source of funding is Shuttleworth's Big Pile O' Cash, which is not something we're blessed with. Lucky Canonical. If I'm being entirely honest that fact is slightly *annoying*, but it doesn't mean Shuttleworth's a bad person or is doing anything wrong. I only brought it up to explain why Andy's argument is completely bogus: you can't compare our model to Canonical's because we don't have the same luxuries they do. To be clear, no, I am not blaming Mark Shuttleworth for the ravings of Andy Dick.
110 • The Realtek 8187B driver (by Jerry B. on 2008-10-14 20:07:00 GMT from United States)
When I go to the hardware section in the Mandriva configuration area, there is a button to update the driver, but an error message appears stating that the driver has no initionalization data. ??
I think it lost the driver for some reason when I ran the software update. I rebooted and boom the connection never returned.
111 • @110 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-14 21:40:40 GMT from Canada)
Can you try re-running the connection wizard - you can call it directly as 'drakconnect', or run it on the Network tab of the MCC, called 'Add a new interface' or something like that? Run through it, and then see if the connection works again.
112 • Mandriva 2009, a bit more... (by Caraibes on 2008-10-14 21:42:13 GMT from Dominican Republic)
I had some time to download and install a MDV 09 ONE Gnome, i586.
It behaves much better so far !
I am wondering if my first try was problematic because of:
-using an amd64 distro (I usually stick to 32 bits, despite my amd64 cpu...) ?
-using KDE4 (I am such a Gnome guy, maybe I can't find my way around KDE ;o) ) ?
-using the "dual-arch" iso (even though I always install Debian with a "netinst", or Arch from their "difficult" installer...) ???
Anyway, I thought it would be fair for me to post that feedback...
113 • Lost connection in Mandriva 2009 (by Jerry B. on 2008-10-14 21:52:42 GMT from United States)
Adam kindly offered:
"Can you try re-running the connection wizard - you can call it directly as 'drakconnect', or run it on the Network tab of the MCC, called 'Add a new interface' or something like that? Run through it, and then see if the connection works again."
I did that right away, from the Mandriva Control Center.. no joy. :( That's what is so weird..
I'll put the Mandriva hard drive back in and fool around more.. I am thinking that the update borked it.. is there a way to undo the update?
114 • Mandriva 2009 (by Gustavo on 2008-10-14 23:45:59 GMT from United States)
13 • @9 (by help on 2008-10-13 11:09:12 GMT from United Kingdom):
I already saw that, but my problem is not with skype, it just doesn't work.
17 • Various (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-13 11:56:45 GMT from Canada)
had no time to check out the lsmod. In my kopete webcam setup it shows up as zc3xx but its not working. Also the setup trough the control center isn't working, it says no device or driver to setup or configure (cant remember the exact wording). Ive seen this bug reported in the forums (but in french, which i dont understand much). Haven't checked the forums since yesterday.
Another big hassle is the update and repositories setup and actually updating my system (it keeps bombing out with some error 5).. Maybe I'm spoiled by pclinuxos synaptic and archlinuxs pacman.
Anyways, thank you for your help and a great distro but i'll just wait for 2009.1 and go back to 2008.1.. It was the same with 2008 and 2008.1.
115 • Ref#109 is not referring to your post #100 (by Verndog on 2008-10-15 01:00:01 GMT from United States)
I think he's referring to another post and not yours. Re-read post#103. His reference is to "Zing!"
I'm thankful that Ubuntu is around. It is the first Linux distribution that freed me from Windows - Almost! I still have issues with using Skype video and ANY Linux distro. A combination of my webcam and Linux drivers. Windows works perfectly. What would I expect. It was made, designed and had its blessings from Windows.
116 • Mandriva 2009 networking.. (by Jerry B. on 2008-10-15 01:52:01 GMT from United States)
.. reinstalled, now it works again. Hmm...
So, something borked it between the time I installed it and when I updated the software.
117 • Various (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-15 05:10:10 GMT from Canada)
@112: Thanks for posting that, it was very fair of you. I'm wondering if possibly the crashes you were running into were the libcanberra thing...that's the only thing I can think of that might cause that.
@114: I believe I've read a few reports where the webcam and driver worked, but Kopete didn't. It seems there may be some bug in Kopete. To see if that's the problem, you could try it with Cheese, or Ekiga, and see if it works there?
On repository errors, it's usually caused by a bad or over-full mirror, but there was an issue with the new versioned hdlists we've just starting using which was causing problems with updates. Give it a day for the fix to sync out to mirrors and that one should be okay.
@116: I know how annoying that kind of issue can be, but it's hard to figure out what it is :(. Can you try and remember to keep a note of exactly what you change, in case it breaks again, so we can figure out what change affected it? I don't *think* any of the official updates so far should have affected networking in any way.
118 • Mandriva 2009 networking.. (by Jerry B. on 2008-10-15 09:29:51 GMT from United States)
:) ok, I've repeatedly tested it, and here is he (rather simple) conclusion:
Networking will only work (on this laptop) when set up through the drakconnect utility *during installation.* It will not work at all through the same utility, or any other, after a reboot. If I never reboot, after having set it up during a fresh install, it stays. If I do reboot for any reason, it is lost and cannot be retrieved by resetting it up.
I tested this three times by simply reinstalling: the connection comes up fine. Then, rebooting, even with no updates, just rebooting, loses the connection and like I said re-setting it up will not retrieve the connection *unless I re-install.*
I am using a Belkin "N" router now with WEP 128 bit encription with a hexidecimal paired key. The laptop has a Realtek 8187B wireless adaptor on an internal usb (detected by the drakconnect utility readily).
119 • distromandrivawatch? (by zipidachimp on 2008-10-15 09:39:09 GMT from Canada)
when did distrowatch become a mandriva forum? guys, give it a break. I come here for news and comment. I also use mandriva 2009, but solve my problems at mandriva's forums!
120 • Response #99 re dependencies [not only in Mandriva] (by Barnabyh on 2008-10-15 10:06:07 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi Adam, thanks for the reply. I always install Evolution and experienced the behaviour that you described further down.
As far as I can remember though removing libbeagle led to removing all Kde apps including amarok, so I presumed that libbeagle is somewhere linked against kdelibs or kdebase. It's a while ago though so bit difficult to say now. Other than this 2008.1 was an outstanding release, but the more experienced I get I've come to appreciate the slackware way of not handling deps for you more and more.
"In 2009, nothing in KDE depends on Mono. In GNOME, the only apps that depend on Mono are those written in Mono - F-Spot, Tomboy, Beagle, all that stuff. You can remove them (or not install them), and Mono, and still have a perfectly good GNOME desktop."
Glad to hear that and I will certainly give 2009 a try too, it's gonna be on my favourite magazine for sure.
121 • Posting Mandriva connection problems here.. (by Jerry B. on 2008-10-15 12:30:58 GMT from United States)
.. well, I was wondering how long it would be before somebody expressed being bothered by my asking about the connection issue.
I'll take it over to the forum at Mandriva, but I should mention that I appreciate very much Adam's attempts at help here. Thank you Adam!
The reason I did not go to the Mandriva forums first? 2 reasons: 1, Mandriva was being discussed in many posts and it piqued my interest so I downloaded and installed it on my laptop.. 2, I often see people post problems in here and work them through with some helpful person here, which to me is one of the dynamics of "information" about distros.
Thanks again, Adam!
122 • Like to express gratitude to the Mandriva team (by Jim on 2008-10-15 13:56:41 GMT from Hong Kong)
Thanks guys for a great job on Mandriva 2009. I have tested both 32 bit and 64 bit versions and I am very impressed indeed. The problems that other people have reported here did not occur on my AMD 64 or 32 bit computers.Thanks Adam for your patience with certain people expressing themselves here,it's a good witness to others that the linux community is a bunch of kind and well-mannered folks who know how to conduct themselves in a world that is becoming more and more ungodly,disrespectful and uncouth.
123 • Re: 103 (by Anonymous on 2008-10-15 14:12:43 GMT from United States)
Actually I believe 101 was pointing out that community versions of Mandrake (that became Mandriva) were around long before Shuttleworth decided to start Ubuntu and that as far as distributions go Ubuntu is relatively young.
Nothing at all was stated blaming Mr. Suttleworth for anything, just that he basically has rebranded a snapshot of Debian unstable. However, considering the experimental nature of some of Ubuntu's defaults, it can be argued that they are doing more to drive people away from Open Source after bad experiences.
Google Pulse Audio Problems for an example of what their default sound system has done for the community. :)
124 • re # 119 #121 Posting Mandriva connection problems here (by glenn on 2008-10-15 16:56:26 GMT from Canada)
This is a comments area and it is normal for some discussion to revolve around a new release version of a Major distro. That includes perceived bugs as well as new goodies. Some people will post an installation problem etc. just to see if others have the same happen to them. Discussions will take place around that. I think that is part of distro watching. I also think it is admirable that a Member of the Distro team takes the time to respond to issues here. I seem to remember Adam requesting people to open bug reports at times to take the topic offline to where it belongs.
I realize that it can be a bit boring for some that are not interested in user experiences and suggestions for a work-by but I think it is not as bad as the "my distro is better than your distro" wars. With those wars you learn nothing other than reading posts from people who send their comments before they have their morning wakeup coffee. (grin goes here).
It may be more constructive to post some other item of interest which will start a new thread of comments rather than just complaining about the plethora of Mandriva posts and their content
No offence intended by the way. It is just the way it appears to me .
If there were more Major Distro events this week I am pretty sure the focus on Mandriva would be somewhat reduced.
Flames go here (___________________________)
125 • @123 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-15 16:57:42 GMT from Canada)
All majors distros now use Pulse by default. Fedora was first, Mandriva second, then Ubuntu and SUSE. Pulse is a great system and we need it: it's the best chance at injecting some sort of sanity into the Linux audio stack, which has long been notably lacking in it. We (distributors) decided to back Pulse and start integrating it to give a clear signal that it was going to be the Way To Go and to encourage app developers to start using it. I think this has generally been successful. If this hadn't been done, people would still be wondering if Pulse would really be adopted, or if something new would pop up, and no progress would really get made...Pulse was around for a long time before Fedora decided to go with it (including under its previous name, PolypAudio), but serious work on many fronts has only really started being made after the major distros decided to make a statement by adopting it. If that hadn't happened we'd still be trapped in audio stack hell.
126 • No subject (by Dick Cheney on 2008-10-15 17:36:05 GMT from United States)
I don't have a problem with this type of Mandriva support. It is a new release, and there has been specific information about the problem and hardware. It's as relevant in my opinion as the release notes. It certainly provides more relevant info than distro bashing, or for that matter, most of what passes as a distro review these days.
127 • RE: 118 (by Landor on 2008-10-15 18:45:10 GMT from Canada)
This sounds to me like it's a module not being loaded, or at least possibly. Try lsmod in the console and see what you get, if you don't see that the module is loaded it could very well be it. If you do, of course it's not.
If it's not, and you know the name of the module, type in the console: modprobe module_name. If you're not sure of the module name then google for it for your card/chipset.
Then try to configure it and see where you go from there.
If I haven't missed this attempt and sorry if I have, then all you have to do it get the module to load at boot and you're rockin'...
Hope this helps..
Keep your stick on the ice...
128 • Package management cheatsheet (by Anonymous on 2008-10-15 18:51:40 GMT from Germany)
I enjoy autoremove in apt-get to get rid of obsolete packages. Maybe one could add that to the sheet unless you think it's beyond the scope. Curious to know that across the other tools.
129 • @128 (by arno911 on 2008-10-15 21:04:40 GMT from Germany)
the autoremove can be dangerous. you should always double-check if you really dont need what it tells you. this is less important in stable, but more in testing and most in sid! same with deborphan.
I prefer to keep my system as clean as possible from the beginning and only use apt-get clean resp. autoclean to keep the cache tidy.
130 • Debian 4 & Mandriva 2009 (by genetics73 on 2008-10-15 21:09:53 GMT from United States)
Lest I am accused of unfairly focusing on one less than perfect distribution (Mandriva 2009), I should point out that the Debian 4 distro is also faulty. As I attempted to install the Debian OS, I found that the OS is unable to recognize my ethernet card (Intel 82566DC-2). Now, neither Vista nor Mandriva had such a problem. So: two major Linux distros come with significant defects: ethernet (Debian) and sound (in Mandriva the sound conundrum has been partially resolved with an updated kernel - rc8.3), but not completely, and there are still some annoying glitches in the way the sound notifications are controlled, or not controlled). That is fine - after all, these OSes are free, but where's the superiority of these Linuxes over Windows? Actually, no, that is NOT fine, because time is worth something, and it's taking an inordinate amount of time to search for solutions to what should not be a problem in a mature distribution.
131 • The mighty Dillo is back. Dillo 2 available (by anticapitalista on 2008-10-15 21:43:55 GMT from Greece)
For those that love fast browsing on low-spec boxes, or reading downloaded html off-line, dillo has been upgraded after a long time in hibernation to version 2
I hope these guys get support.
132 • Mandriva 2009 (by Gustavo on 2008-10-15 22:04:39 GMT from United States)
117 • Various (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-15 05:10:10 GMT from Canada)
Tried with ekiga, works wonderfully. So it has to be a kopete bug in the version used for 2009, as its working in 2008.1. Update is working now, still a bit messy to setup.
124 • re # 119 #121 Posting Mandriva connection problems here (by glenn on 2008-10-15 16:56:26 GMT from Canada)
I agree completely with you.
130 • Debian 4 & Mandriva 2009 (by genetics73 on 2008-10-15 21:09:53 GMT from United States)
Then stick with windows if that makes you happy. I'm happy with linux.
133 • Mandriva (by wam on 2008-10-16 00:14:40 GMT from United States)
You and your crew has done a fine job on 2009. Im using the GNOME and so far it works and very fast. Im happy. Im getting ready to download the KDE 4 version now. Im going to use them for a few more days or so, and if everything goes well, then ill send your company some cash (buying the powerpack) to show my support.
134 • "module not being loaded" (by Jerry B. on 2008-10-16 10:00:39 GMT from United States)
Thank you, Landor. I will try that at my next opportunity; I'll let you know how that comes out (the module is rtl8187).
Keep at least one skate on the ice. :)
135 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-10-16 11:59:54 GMT from United States)
#123 said "Actually I believe 101 was pointing out that community versions of Mandrake (that became Mandriva) were around long before Shuttleworth decided to start Ubuntu and that as far as distributions go Ubuntu is relatively young."
That is not in dispute. The rest of your post is not correct. I read what he said about Shuttleworth and Ubuntu and it was senseless flaming. Your statement about Ubuntu driving people away from opensource is without merit also. Look at the useage of the distro which I will not try to defend or prove because it is common knowledge. Now, enough of this! Even tho I'm not an Ubuntu user I will not talk down another distro.
136 • Mandriva 2009 (by john frey on 2008-10-16 12:29:13 GMT from Canada)
It is with heavy heart that I must confess that this release of Mandriva is not up to the quality of releases we have been getting. I've now installed it on 3 computers. The bugs and lack of stability are just too much for a final release from a major distro. The bugs include sound problems, instability, missing software, seemingly random desktop setting changes, too many kernel selections left in the grub start menu, missing file and folder icons, settings not consistent in all applications. That's just in KDE3.5. KDE4 is worse.
I've been using Mandrake since 8.2 as my desktop distro. This is not the worst release I've seen from them but it's certainly up there. For those who might be thinking about upgrading I suggest waiting for the next release. If you like tweaking (and who doesn't:) and squashing bugs this is a fine distro for that.
137 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-10-16 12:40:13 GMT from Canada)
mandriva left my laptop after a day and on went intrepid , why?
intrepid is less buggy for the reason that.......
if you plan on releasing critical fixes after the releases - make sure that you dont have the most complicated repository set up and one that dosent keep returning errors everytime you try and set up said repository.
mandriva still has potential but they need to lose urpmi fast (why do you think pclos was so popular)
sort out the repo system - and dont releases buggy messes - im not going to fight with your os when there are planty of alternatives.
lastly - who is making the decisions at mandriva??????? they need replacing.
138 • Conclusion: Mandriva, I'll see you in Spring :) (by Caraibes on 2008-10-16 13:48:05 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Ok, after a few days, I simply can't take Mandriva 2009 anymore... Just way too much bugs... (I even a Firefox disappeared from menu entries and icons !!!)...
I like you guys, but this is simply not a good release... Don't worry... It happens... You might want to fix most things and release a 2009SE in December :)
In the mean time, my "pet project" is a multiboot between my "work horse" distro (Ubuntu 8.04.1, perfect from day 1 for me), and the 2 awarded distros, Mint Xfce and GobliX from this http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&2008/10/13/09/02/30-the-linux-personal-achievements-
The Linux Personal Achievements 2008 Awards
-Fun, isn't it ?
139 • RE: 125 (by Béranger` on 2008-10-16 14:36:20 GMT from Romania)
«Pulse is a great system and we need it: it's the best chance at injecting some sort of sanity into the Linux audio stack, which has long been notably lacking in it. We (distributors) decided to back Pulse and start integrating it to give a clear signal that it was going to be the Way To Go and to encourage app developers to start using it.»
Adam, please use a better dictionary. Yours mistakes "to encourage" for "to force". And please add the users too in the equation, not only the devs. Thanks.
140 • R: 139 (by IMQ on 2008-10-16 15:37:39 GMT from United States)
Unless Pulse is the only option for audio, nothing wrong with the use of the word *encourage* here.
141 • Various (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-16 18:29:09 GMT from Canada)
@136: John, can you please describe the problems in some useful detail, either by email or on Bugzilla? We can't fix anything unless you provide useful descriptions. If you've already filed bugs, I apologize - I'm a week behind on bug mail at the moment. For the record, I haven't seen any of the problems you describe, but then my main system runs GNOME, and I don't use the testbed system (which runs KDE) very much, only for testing specific things.
@137: the MDV repo setup isn't any more complex than any other distro, really, and it's as simple as it can be given its capabilities. There was a problem for the last two days with using the update repositories with the automatic configuration system, but it should be solved now, or you can just use Media Manager to add repos from a specific mirror (Options / Add Media).
@139: As 140 says, you are incorrect. On Mandriva you can disable Pulse by running draksound and unchecking a couple of boxes. So it's hardly "force".
142 • @136 and 138 (by genetics73 on 2008-10-16 18:55:32 GMT from United States)
Thank you both; and especially 136, who previously criticized me... no hard feelings:)
143 • No subject (by Guestman on 2008-10-16 19:51:50 GMT from France)
I'm sorry but no, Pulse is NOT a "great system"! Even in Ubuntu there are many problems with it... :-(
@140 and 141
Béranger does not say we can not disable it, he talks about "the app developers"!
Read again 125 please: "it was going to be the Way To Go and to encourage app developers to start using it.»!
"Encourage"? hmm... Yeah right, HAHAHAHAHAHA
> "nothing wrong with the use of the word *encourage* here."
Yes, there is something wrong. Béranger is correct. And I think he was somewhat ironic...
144 • Mandriva 2009 networking problem persists.. (by Jerry B. on 2008-10-16 20:43:55 GMT from United States)
..it works perfectly with a fresh install, but drops the connection irretrieavably on reboot.
Efforts to re-install the connection are futile. The user forums at the Mandriva site are helpful, but not adequate.
I can use the connectionnn for as long as I like, as long as I never restart the computer. :(
145 • re 143 (by Anonymous on 2008-10-16 20:44:51 GMT from Canada)
Adam's point is that even if Alsa works better at the moment, Pulse has the potential to be even better. That's why the devs are pushing it.
146 • @143 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-16 21:41:22 GMT from Canada)
That's even more wrong, because there's nothing at all compelling app writers to write to Pulse. They can write to ALSA or libao or libSDL or directly to OSS if they're feeling particularly stupid or all sorts of other things, just as they already have been doing for years. Pulse wraps all of those options fine.
It's pretty *dumb* to write to any of those choices now that Pulse is available, of course, because Pulse is a lot more capable, cross-platform, and a lot easier to write to than most of those options. But nothing at all is stopping them from doing it, if they want to.
147 • @144 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-16 21:41:49 GMT from Canada)
Sorry to hear that :(. I can't think of a reason or a cure, off the top of my head. Have you filed a bug on it? If so, please let me know the URL. thanks!
148 • No subject (by john frey on 2008-10-16 21:59:24 GMT from Canada)
No I cannot give any useful details. Sorry.
Seriously, though, I'm going to go through the errata first and apply any fixes from there. Then I will look at getting some bug reports in. To be perfectly honest, it's sometimes difficult to know when a bug is the result of an OS failure and when it is the result of me trying to fix things myself. Nevertheless I will do my best to help out. I don't intend to change my OS and it is usable despite the annoyances.
Why, for instance, have my most frequently used applications changed on the Kmenu? Everytime I want to play freecell I have to go through the directory and it was at the top of the list before. How can I stay productive with annoyances like this?
Genetics: No hard feelings. You should notice I did not say that Mandriva sucks anywhere or that Windows is flawless. I guess we still have to disagree on that one;)
149 • 64-bit Mandriva One? (by BlueJayofEvil on 2008-10-16 22:44:42 GMT from United States)
I've been searching through the Mandriva downloads and torrents, and can only find the "Free" edition in 64-bit. I ordered a PowerPack subscription (and am patiently waiting for my .iso's to download), and those offer 64-bit as well. But where is Mandrive One 64-bit? Did I overlook the link somewhere?
150 • re 149 (by Anonymous on 2008-10-17 02:06:59 GMT from Canada)
Unfortunately there is no Mandriva One (live CD) for 64 bit arch.
The only options for 64 bit are Mandriva Free are Mandriva Mini CD, Mandriva Free DVD and Mandriva Powerpack
151 • Cheat sheet in PDF (by whizzkid on 2008-10-17 02:08:01 GMT from Finland)
It would be nice to combine all the cheat sheet episodes in one file(maybe in the form of a pdf file) and publish it for the benefit of users and Linux enthusiast.
152 • @ 144 (by Constant Observer2 on 2008-10-17 06:23:33 GMT from United States)
For past several months there may have been very similar issues within other distros and that realtek and few found a possible quick fix was disabling the router encryption. Fortunately, I do not have this problem with realtek rt8168 and Mandriva 2009.0.
153 • @148 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-17 06:55:13 GMT from Canada)
IIRC that's a KDE 4 change. Most used apps are now a separate sub-menu, not at the top of the main menu. I'm fairly sure it's there as a sub-menu on my KDE 4 desktop (I'm in GNOME ATM).
154 • @153 (by john frey on 2008-10-17 08:47:53 GMT from Canada)
I'm in KDE3. The most used list is where it has always been, the apps in the most used list have changed. Some are apps I've hardly ever used and certainly not since this upgrade. Others are where they should be (configure your computer, for instance). Not only was Configure Your Desktop absent form the most used list it was missing after my upgrade. I had to install it again. After installing task-kde4 my kde3 menu style was changed to kickoff style for no reason.
I'm still missing file and folder icons so that they appear as white squares with a ? superimposed. Many applications in the start menu are missing their icons. Dolphin is one such. I like to set my desktop for single click to open folders and files. For some reason Dolphin makes me double click.
I'm sure I can solve some of these issues by going through the package list and installing additional software. Icons for instance. The thing is, it just looks really bad.
155 • @146 (by Guestman on 2008-10-17 10:57:33 GMT from France)
> "there's nothing at all compelling app writers to write to Pulse"
Ah? But you then contradict yourself a little by saying: "It's pretty *dumb* to write to any of those choices now that Pulse is available, of course, because Pulse is a lot more capable, cross-platform, and a lot easier to write to than most of those options."
OK. But if Pulse is "more capable" or "easier", they are more or less FORCED to Pulse because it will be the future...
> "But nothing at all is stopping them from doing it, if they want to."
OK but as we are told that the future IS Pulse, so that everything will be or should be Pulse, you really believe that we let them choose?
156 • @155 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-17 11:13:48 GMT from Canada)
Well, yes. If nothing else, the restricted API of ALSA is not going to go away any time soon. It's just hard to think of a situation where it would be a better idea to write to that than just to write to Pulse directly. Well, for now it pays to do both and give the user a choice, because not everyone is on Pulse yet.
157 • Mandriva 2009 (by drizake on 2008-10-17 12:35:07 GMT from United States)
Standard install. can't find /dev when attempting to boot. reinstalling Mint...
158 • Elive "Development" Release (by Linux Enthusiast on 2008-10-17 13:24:09 GMT from India)
On homepage of DistroWatch.com, in the section "Latest News and Updates", it is announced as "Distribution Release: Elive 1.9.10." Shouldn't that be "Development" Release?
The release announcement for Elive reads "The Elive team is proud to announce the release of the development version 1.9.10." Also, the iso file provided for download in the same section reads "Download: elive 1.9.10 unstable iso."
Please do the needful and correct the changes.
159 • @158 Elive unstable (by Joey on 2008-10-17 14:00:44 GMT from United States)
Yeah, the iso link takes you to a development page with "These (unstable) versions are intended for testers and collaborators" there as a warning.
160 • just how many E17 distros are there? (by John Adams on 2008-10-17 18:19:33 GMT from United States)
-- Yellow Dog Linux
-- Maryan Linux
What am I leaving out?
161 • Mint Xfce & GoblinX (by Caraibes on 2008-10-17 18:32:10 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Mint Xfce... Close to perfection, excellent !
GoblinX... What a pleasant surprise after all ! What a nice Slackware derivative, very original, but smart and nice... Well internationalized...
Those 2 represent a perfect dual-boot for a Linuxer who wants a Debian based & a Slackware based distro...
I would install GoblinX first, so the Mint installer would correctly configure grub to pick up GoblinX (I had to edit mine manually...)
Here's the Grub edit for GoblinX:
kernel /boot/vmlinuz ro root=/dev/sda7
162 • @ 160 (by Linux Enthusiast on 2008-10-17 18:57:49 GMT from India)
"What am I leaving out?"
-- SOAD (SuSE on Active Diet) Linux.
It's based on the latest OpenSUSE release (11.0) and aimed to deliver current svn code of Enlightenment-DR17 and Enlightenment-DR16 to the audience.
More details of it can be found from here:
163 • Insert another link (by Daniel P at 2008-10-17 19:15:35 GMT from United States)
It would be great to insert a link to parts 1 & 2 at the top of this Package Management Cheatsheet article (part #3).
164 • re 160 (by Anonymous on 2008-10-17 19:47:33 GMT from Canada)
"What am I leaving out?"
Mandriva. You can install and run about any desktop environment on it. Simply execute
165 • Mandriva's "urpmi task-e17" (by Jerry B. on 2008-10-17 20:53:42 GMT from United States)
Oops, no internet connection on some laptops after rebooting, no matter what you do.
166 • re 165 (by Anonymous on 2008-10-17 21:05:13 GMT from Canada)
I didnt' mention Mandriva 2009. It could be Mandriva 2008.1 or any other release that suits you.
167 • Mandriva 2009: a good release but it could be more interesting (by killer1987 on 2008-10-17 21:25:30 GMT from Italy)
i used mandriva 2009 following the dev branch, cooker. i saw it growing and i noticed that there were too bugs just a few days before the release date to respect the schedule without any problem. in fact now i must face a long errata page and a lot of minor issues that prevent me to suggest to newbies people. in conclusion, a good release (new look to mcc and to the installer, remove feature of unused modules in One ed., etc.. ), but it could be the best release if mandriva developers released a week or two later, considering also that alpha 1 has never seen the light... hope to see the real mandriva power for 2009.1, good work!
168 • mandriva2009 (by Guy on 2008-10-18 01:02:14 GMT from United States)
Yikes!!! No K3B?
169 • @jerry (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-18 01:24:43 GMT from Canada)
I came across something today which might help you. Can you try changing the DHCP client to dhcpcd rather than dhclient ? You can do this in drakconnect (I think it's in an advanced window) or directly in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-(ifname) . thanks!
170 • @168 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-18 01:25:04 GMT from Canada)
Um, no, k3b is included. It's the KDE 3 version not the KDE 4 one, but it's there.
171 • Stux linux (by RollMeAway on 2008-10-18 04:13:05 GMT from United States)
Perhaps Stux went unnoticed when announced 9/10/08:
I have been pleasantly surprised by the quality of this Slackware based Live DVD.
It installed smoothly, everything just works, even nvidia. Only package I've installed is keepassx.
Be aware it takes 9.8 GB of space on your hard drive! That is rivaled only by Sabayon, another Italian distro, curious? This is a FULL slackware 12.1 install with dozens of 2D and 3D games added. I'm not a gamer but all that I've tried have worked.
There is a fair amount of custom drawn artwork. Something is bound to impress you.
Also has an impressive gui collection of custom utilities found in the "Stux Control Center"
If you want to see Slackware pushed to the limit, have a look at this one.
172 • @ 171 : Stux Linux (by Constant Observer2 on 2008-10-18 06:58:11 GMT from United States)
Just as you described. : )
173 • Slapt-get commands for Vector in cheat-sheet (by The Headacher on 2008-10-18 10:25:50 GMT from Netherlands)
The cheatsheet for VectorLinux (slapt-get) is faulty: all options have to start with --, eg.
slapt-get --install pkg
slapt-get install pkg
Just thought I'd mention so it could be fixed ;-).
174 • @#169 from Adam (by Jerry B. on 2008-10-18 14:50:19 GMT from United States)
Thank you for the idea. I wrote that down and will give it a shot right away.
Great to see suggestions here!
175 • Adam the helpful Distrowatch "comments" King!! (by Jerry B. on 2008-10-18 20:46:44 GMT from United States)
Adam! I am now on my new Mandriva 2009 distro, after a reboot, and connected beautifully thanks to your suggestion of changing the dhcclient entry in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-wlan0 to dhcpd (had to first install dhcpcd with the Mandriva software installation tool).
I have now tested it three times, rebooting and even shutting down, then rebooting and then going into the network manager utility and hitting, "connect." That would result in *nothing* after a reboot before making the change you suggested.
Thank you! Problem solved! Now Mandriva 2009 is replacing Windows Vista on this Toshiba laptop!! :)))))
- Jerry B.
176 • @175 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-18 22:34:22 GMT from Canada)
Awesome! Glad my shot in the dark hit the target :). If it's not too much trouble, could you file a bug, with a description of your symptoms, and the hardware in your wireless network, and the output of 'lspcidrake -v'? I've now seen several people who had issues solved by switching from dhclient to dhcpcd, but haven't yet tracked down the exact root cause of this, so we need more information to get to the bottom of it :). If you can, please give me the URL. Thanks!
177 • @175 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-18 22:49:35 GMT from Canada)
Actually, can you append your comments / info to:
178 • ParsiX (by capricornus on 2008-10-19 07:22:51 GMT from Belgium)
I tried ParsiX 32-bit before, and reported negatively. I tried the AMD64-version yesterday and today, on a AMD64x2 on a Gigabyte MB. I report
1/ disastrous grub, fortunately Xubuntu 64bit restored everything
2/ no LAN-connection whatever, although the (powerline) parameters are set correctly
How beautiful ! my wife remarked. Well, that was it: beautiful. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as is uglyness. But disfunctioning is something else. A pity of my time.
ParsiX is Parsi EX for me, Parsi EXIT.
179 • @178 (by Guestman on 2008-10-19 08:58:31 GMT from France)
Your experience with Parsix is... surprising. "disastrous grub"? I installed Parsix (32 bits) 3 times and I never had any problem with Grub. Parsix it's Debian Testing plus a few little things, so... I can not remember that someone has reported a problem with Grub. But my memory may be bad :-)
For now Parsix is very good for me!
180 • Mandriva 2009 connection woes (by Jerry B. on 2008-10-19 17:03:10 GMT from United States)
This was posted in the Mandriva forums, but some here may be following along so here's the error output when trying to connect in console mode as root:
SIOCETHTOOL: operation not supported
Error for wireless request "Set Mode" (8B06):
Set failed on device wlan0: invalid arguement
This occurred after I thought it was fixed, and with all configuration parameters in place; after a 5th reboot the connection failed to invoke, so I attempted to re-configure it in drakconnect as root in console mode.
No more posts here about this; please see http://forum.mandriva.com in the "Laptops" area, although it will be taken up in the newer "Networking" area created by Adam there.
181 • @181 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-19 18:11:43 GMT from Canada)
Actually, Jerry, I'd better correct that. That 'error' pops up all the time for all sorts of connections and doesn't generally indicate anything. I get it on my connection, which works perfectly with dhclient.
182 • PCLinuxOS (by jerry on 2008-10-19 21:57:57 GMT from United States)
OOO Goodie. After a long wait PCLOS has got a beta. Feels, acts just like 2007 but with a few updated packages.
183 • #180 Jerry B (by Glenn on 2008-10-19 22:01:04 GMT from Canada)
Hope you get to read this before the new distro watch comes out.
Question. Are you running the MDV-9 with KDE4 or the Gnome Version?
I installed the Gnome version and other than some gripes, I have it working fine, well except for NDISWRAPPER and my Linksys WUSB300N but that I'll get around to fixing that at some point.
184 • No subject (by MandrivaUser on 2008-10-20 00:56:04 GMT from United States)
I enjoy the comments section of Distrowatch and come back often.
However, this week has partially turned into a Mandriva help forum, and while I do use Mandriva, this is really boring. Adam, why not encourage your users to search the forum instead of clogging up the comments section?
185 • @184 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-10-20 03:45:04 GMT from Canada)
It's an Ubuntu forum the other 51 weeks of the year, give us one week :D
186 • Mandriva's Gnome (glenn) (by Jerry B. on 2008-10-20 11:24:03 GMT from United States)
Thanks Glenn. Yes, I did notice Gnome installed by default on the version of Mandriva I downloaded.
I like it very much.
Now, back to the regular Ubuntu help area here at distrowatch. :O) LOL..
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