| DistroWatch Weekly
|DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 238, 4 February 2008
Welcome to this year's 5th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! It's tough to be a developer of a desktop operating system these days. Not only are we seeing increasing usability and user-friendliness from the major Linux distributions, the BSD world now also wants its share of the market, while there are those who believe that even Solaris can be a viable desktop alternative to the more established operating systems. But how far has Sun Microsystems' flagship product progressed since the opening up of the source code in the form of OpenSolaris? Our featured story looks at Nexenta, Indiana, BeleniX and other OpenSolaris-based distribution and asks whether they can compete on the desktop. In the news section, Debian edges closer to "Lenny", Slackware announces plans to move to KDE 4, François Bancilhon defends the code-sharing agreement with Turbolinux, and Ars Technica investigates the latest release of NetBSD. Finally, we are proud to announce that the recipient of the DistroWatch January 2008 donation is the VideoLAN VLC project. Enjoy the read and happy Chinese New Year to all our readers!
Join us at irc.freenode.net #distrowatch
Solaris on the desktop
Of all the "real" UNIX operating systems ever built, Sun Microsystems' Solaris is probably the most famous. This is mostly due to its reputation as a reliable workhorse of large data centres and other mission-critical systems, but also because of its special security, file system, troubleshooting and self-healing features that the Sun developers have coded into the Solaris kernel and userland over the years. But with the rapid advances of Linux and its increasing acceptance as a more affordable alternative to UNIX, Sun's flagship operating system has lost market share - that's despite the fact that it is now available free of charge and under a license approved by the Free Software Foundation (FSF). Solaris faces an uphill struggle against other free operating systems.
In recent years, Sun has been trying to revive the interest in Solaris by means of opening up its source code through the OpenSolaris project. This worked reasonably well and it didn't take long before a variety of community projects based on the OpenSolaris code sprang into life. Jörg Schilling's Schillix became the first OpenSolaris-based live CD designed primarily for developers, but it was the effort of the Sun Microsystems' development team in India and its BeleniX live CD (with hardware detection, Xfce window manager and a variety of desktop applications) that finally convinced the sceptics that the idea of Solaris running on end users' desktops is feasible.
However, the most ambitious and promising desktop Solaris project was Nexenta, first announced in November 2005. The goal of this semi-commercial distribution was to deliver a full desktop operating system by combining the OpenSolaris kernel and userland with Debian utilities and Ubuntu packages. It released seven alpha builds - all in the form of installable live CDs with the GNOME desktop, Ubuntu installer, and thousands of popular open source applications available for installation over the Internet. Disappointingly, the last of these alpha builds was pushed out in May 2007, after which the project appeared to be rethinking its strategy, with a focus on a developing a much less ambitious product called NexentaCP (Nexenta Core Platform).
Has Nexenta abandoned its plans for producing a complete desktop Solaris solution? DistroWatch has exchanged a few emails with Nexenta to find out and the answer is, unfortunately, "yes". Erast Benson, a Nexenta developer, explained the reasons: "We had to face the problem with inability to maintain various GUI applications and environments which are included by default in Ubuntu. It was very difficult to make them stable and we eventually gave up."
This seems to suggest that OpenSolaris on the desktop is a concept similar to fighting windmills - a complete waste of time. No, not quite, argues Benson: "GUI is not a strong side of OpenSolaris - server is, storage is, virtualisation is, but not desktop. Really, OpenSolaris as a server - a perfect find, while on the desktop there are different requirements which are not yet met by the OpenSolaris community. My prediction is that it will match the Linux desktop by about 2010, probably with the push of Indiana." He added another thought: "Linux also started as a server platform. User-friendly desktops appeared way later. We expect the same for OpenSolaris. Desktop OpenSolaris will happen, but it is not the time yet."
With a self-funding project like Nexenta, another problem is, of course, money: "It is very difficult to make money from a desktop solution these days. People somehow expect desktop software to be available for free in the UNIX world. However, server UNIX software is for $$$... so we have a chance to survive only if we capitalise on the right technology at the right time." So what exactly can we expect from the Nexenta project in the next few months? "There will be four distinct products," Benson continued. "Two of them already exist: NexentaCP, a stable OpenSolaris core, and NexentaStor, a commercial appliance distribution functionally similar to FreeNAS or OpenFiler, but obviously based on OpenSolaris. There are two more products in development: NexentaXfce (yes, wit GUI) and NexentaWeb, scheduled to appear this year."
Does this all mean that we are unlikely to see a Nexenta desktop in the near future? "Well, we are trying to stimulate other projects around NexentaCP to produce more desktop-oriented distributions," explained Benson. "Such distributions could be initiated by anyone who is a talented artist and a bright developer. NexentaCP should be an excellent starting point to produce such distribution as it can be redistributed with no obligations. After all, it's designed as a 'core' for other distributions to reuse for their custom projects. At the same time, we are focusing our efforts on ZFS and storage-related technologies. In my opinion, NexentaCP is a perfect solution for the servers and once the stable 1.0 is out, we should expect many support companies and individuals to offer their support services."
So there you have it. Despite its original focus, Nexenta is not going to replace your current desktop distribution any time soon - a somewhat disappointing, though understandable fact. Nevertheless, with the current effort Sun is putting into Project Indiana, it is entirely possible that many of the compatibility problems Nexenta has failed to overcome, will be resolved in the next couple of years, if not months. This could entice more Solaris fans to give a desktop OpenSolaris solution another try and possibly be drawn into the development process. The user and developer communities should grow.
As for Indiana itself, how far is Ian Murdock's brainchild at the start of 2008? It seems that the project is progressing as planned. Following the first preview released in early November 2007, the second preview is about to be announced too. In fact, a "pre-preview" was released for testing last weekend, so those interested in giving it a spin can start downloading the live CD straight away: in-test-199.iso (645MB, MD5, torrent). No release notes are available as yet, but Phoronix has published a good first-look review, noting a number of interesting improvements, including a better detection of wireless network cards and other hardware, and an improved graphical installer. But on the negative side, the article has also found a limited set of desktop applications and media codecs, and a lack of a graphical package manager.
Indiana Preview 2 - an installable live CD with GNOME and a handful of desktop applications
(full image size: 400kB, screen resolution: 1280x800 pixels)
So what does all this say about the prospects of a widespread deployment of Solaris on the desktop in 2008? Things certainly don't look very bright at the moment. Nexenta has changed its focus, while Indiana is nowhere near ready. BeleniX has started well and is currently ahead of all other projects in delivering a decent desktop solution based on OpenSolaris. But the problem with all these distributions is rather obvious: while all of them have got the basics right in producing usable live CDs with automatic hardware detection and a basic desktop, none of them have given us compelling enough reason to abandon our Linux (or even BSD) systems in favour of OpenSolaris. As such, desktop Solaris will continue to thrive on the workstation of some Solaris developers and perhaps make a brief stop on the hard drives of a few curious distro hoppers, but anything more that that is unlikely in the foreseeable future.
Operating systems market share, taken from the web logs at DistroWatch.com in January 2008
Debian "Lenny" plans, Slackware on KDE 4, Linux Magazine and Mandriva Powerpack, NetBSD interview
Let's start this week's news section with a couple of interesting updates from the Debian project. First, the development of Debian's next release, code name "Lenny", is proceeding according to the plan, which is to have it finalise for release in September 2008: "As we are progressing in our release preparations, we have reviewed the original schedule for 'Lenny' to check for any imminent problems, and at the moment are quite content with the current state. We are, as always, concerned about the large number of release-critical issues still unfixed in testing, so please help do something about it." The message, published be Marc Brockschmidt on the project's devel-announce mailing list, also includes information about new release assistants, release blockers, release architecture re-qualification, bug squashing parties and other topics related to Lenny.
On a related subject, Moritz Muehlenhoff has announced that Debian's upcoming release could include a number of optional security hardening features: "The Debian archive is the biggest of all distributions and although there's security support for all security issues being found, there's still room for improvement and a need for increased resilience against flaws not yet discovered." These security improvements will focus on two main areas: tool chain features preventing the exploitation of some vulnerability classes (e.g. stack protector, fortify source, format warnings) and tool chain features enhancing the effectiveness of Address Space Layout Randomization (e.g. relro, Position Independent Executables, experimental wrapper package). If all this sounds a little too technical, don't despair; the announcement is actually very readable and further documentation and relevant links are also available in the Debian Wiki.
* * * * *
After a brief holiday break, the Slackware changelog has once again started seeing blocks of new entries. Among them, KDE was the subject of a longer post, with hints that the upcoming release of Slackware Linux 12.1 will still ship with KDE 3.5, but once KDE 4.1 is out and most of the current bugs are squashed, it will likely make a prompt appearance in the "current" tree. Patrick Volkerding: "The next Slackware release will contain KDE 3.5.9, but we're targeting KDE 4.1.x for the one after that. The application end of things doesn't quite fully cover KDE3's functionality yet, but by then it will." The founder of Slackware Linux is clearly fond of the new KDE: "The look of the new desktop is stunning, and the use of SVG and hardware acceleration gives (IMHO) even something like Mac OS a run for its money in terms of appearance and user-friendliness. We look forward with great anticipation to merging KDE4 when it is mature enough (and it's getting there fast), and then watching it just get better and better."
* * * * *
The recent Mandriva - Turbolinux collaboration deal has been interpreted in the media with a controversial twist due to Turbolinux's extensive patent-protection agreements with Microsoft. Linux Journal was curious about the deal so it interviewed François Bancilhon, the Mandriva CEO, about the implications of the agreement: "First of all, let me clarify that we are initially only unifying the core components of the distribution, roughly 100 RPMs. So there will still be 2 different distros: Mandriva Linux and Turbolinux. But because they have the same base components, they will run on the same hardware hardware platforms and they will support the same ISVs. This is good for customers: a stronger, sounder distribution, more hardware and software compatibility; this is good for ISVs and IHVs: they need only one certification for the 2 distros."
Mandriva Linux 2008 has received positive reviews in the media and has been well-accepted by the greater Linux community. The distribution is stable, mature and, in case of the Powerpack edition, contains all that one could possibly need for a functional desktop. But what do you do if you are a poor student or if you just don't have the €50 it takes to buy the product? Simple: get the March 2008 issue of Linux Magazine. The full Powerpack edition of Mandriva Linux 2008 is included on the cover DVD, while the printed pages are packed with interesting distro-related articles, such as the 17-page story on creating your own distribution, a comprehensive review of Puppy Linux, a 3-page article on the ASUS Eee PC, and the regular "Ask Klaus Knopper" column. The magazine currently offers a get-3-issues-for-the-price-of-one deal that allows you to receive three trial issues for as little as US$9.95, depending on your location. (And no, this paragraph is not an "advertorial"; it simply serves as an alert to the easy availability of the Mandriva 2008 Powerpack DVD and the low-cost subscription offer).
* * * * *
NetBSD has a reputation of being the hardest of all BSDs to set up and use, perhaps finding some interest only among the users who want to run an operating system on their kitchen toasters or other exotic hardware. The project has recently released a major update, version 4.0, with a number of new features and, as usual, support for several new processor architectures. But what exactly is NetBSD and who develops it? Ars Technica has sat down with several leading developers of the project for an exhaustive 9-page interview: "The NetBSD community announced last month the official release of NetBSD 4.0, the latest version of the UNIX-like open source operating system. Version 4.0 includes significant new features like Bluetooth support, version 3 of the Xen virtual machine monitor, new device drivers, and improvements to the Veriexec file integrity subsystem. NetBSD, which is known for its high portability, is capable of running on 54 different system architectures and is suitable for use on a wide range of hardware, including desktops, servers, mobile devices, and even kitchen toasters.".
|Released Last Week
Ryan Finnie has announced the release of Finnix 91.0, a specialist, Debian-based live CD for system administrators: "Finnix 91.0 released. Finnix 91.0 includes a new Linux kernel (2.6.24), automatic 32-bit/64-bit detection on the x86 platform, stackable RAID/LUKS/LVM detection and setup, and several bug fixes. If you press 'enter' at the boot screen of Finnix 91.0 x86, the boot loader will now detect if you have a 64-bit capable CPU, and will load the appropriate kernel. You can still force 32-bit or 64-bit by entering the 'finnix' or 'finnix64' boot profiles. While RAID, LUKS (encryption) and LVM detection have been in Finnix for awhile now, they were loaded in a certain order, and some configurations were not detected as a result. With Finnix 91.0, most configurations should be detected. For example, an encrypted LVM set on top of two RAID disks should be set up automatically." Read the release announcement and release notes for further information.
UHU-Linux is an independently-developed Hungarian distribution, designed primarily for Hungarian speakers. A new release, version 2.1 and code name "Bumm", was announced earlier today. The fifth stable UHU-Linux release includes a number of new features; worth mentioning among them is the inclusion of Totem and Exaile as the default video and music players, updated system installer, read and write support for NTFS partitions, new external media automount features, and the latest versions of Pidgin, Skype and Firefox with Java and Flash plugins. UHU-Linux 2.1 is built on top of Linux kernel 18.104.22.168, uses glibc 2.6.1 and is compiled with GCC 4.2.2. The default desktop is GNOME 2.20, with KDE 3.5.8 and Xfce 4.4.2 also available. Hungarian and English are the only two supported languages. For more information please see the release announcement and technical details pages (both links in Hungarian).
UHU-Linux 2.1 - the default desktop
(full image size: 948kB, screen resolution: 1280x1024 pixels)
GoblinX 2.6 "Mini"
Flavio Pereira de Oliveira has announced the release of GoblinX 2.6 "Mini", a light-weight, Slackware-based live CD featuring the Xfce window manager and GTK+ applications: "GoblinX Mini 2.6 is released. Main upgrades since the release candidate 1: Added the SLAX firewall; added more options to the isolinux menu; rebuilt the Gtkdialog interfaces to prevent resize action; corrected a few errors and bugs; corrected the Kill button in media manager interfaces; added Ghdcpd, xrefresh, Gnome-utils and Bluez packages; upgraded some libraries and packages including xorg-server; changed z.Goblix for z.Mini, a different GoblinX module for the Mini edition; corrected some sudo issues; removed X.Org default resolution; removed some libraries; added more services to boot." Visit the distribution's news page to read the release announcement.
X/OS Linux 5.1
Jos Vos has announced the release of X/OS Linux 5.1, a free distribution built by recompiling the source RPM packages for Red Hat Enterprise Linux: "X/OS Linux 5.1 is now available for public download. The X/OS Linux 5.1 package set is identical to the combined package sets of RHEL 5.1 Client and RHEL 5.1 Server, with the following exceptions: all Red Hat Network (RHN) related packages are not included with X/OS Linux; a few updates released for RHEL 5.1 have been included; the yum package has been updated to version 3.2.1, the version included with the RHEL 5.1 beta release. Besides these additions and name changes, the following modifications were made to the original packages: an installclass has been added to Anaconda, supporting various alternatives for installing X/OS Linux 5; Red Hat trademarks and logos have been removed..." Here are the complete release notes.
* * * * *
Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
- Frugalware Linux 0.8-rc1, the release announcement
- rPath Linux 2-beta1, the release announcement
- Musix GNU+Linux 1.0r3-test5, the release announcement
- Absolute Linux 12.1-beta2, 12.1-beta3, the changelog
- Endian Firewall 2.2-beta3, the release notes
- Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubuntu and Ubuntu Studio 8.04-alpha4, the release announcement
- Myah OS 3.0-beta1, the release announcement
- NimbleX 2008-beta, the release announcement
- Damn Small Linux 4.2.5
- SchilliX 0.6.1
- trixbox 2.6-beta
- paldo 1.13
- FreeNAS 0.686.1-beta2728
|Upcoming Releases and Announcements
Summary of expected upcoming releases
January 2008 donation: VLC receives US$350.00|
We are pleased to announce that the recipient of the January 2008 DistroWatch.com donation is VideoLAN's VLC media player project. It receives US$350.00 in cash.
VideoLAN Client (VLC) is a media player, streamer, and encoder for UNIX, Windows, Mac OS X, BeOS, QNX, and PocketPC. It can play most audio and video codecs (MPEG 1/2/4, DivX, WMV, Vorbis, AC3, AAC, etc.), has support for VCD, SVCD, and DVD (with menus), and can read or dump streams from a network source (HTTP, UDP, DVB, MMS, etc.). It can also act as a server and send streams through the network, with optional support for audio and video transcoding. For more information please visit the project's features page and check out the screenshots.
As always, this monthly donations programme is a joint initiative between DistroWatch and two online shops selling low-cost CDs and DVDs with Linux, BSD and other open source software - LinuxCD.org and OSDisc.com. These vendors contributed US$50.00 each towards this month's donation to VLC.
Here is the list of projects that received a DistroWatch donation since the launch of the programme (figures in US dollars):
Since the launch of the Donations Programme in March 2004, DistroWatch has donated a total of US$16,243 to various open source software projects.
- 2004: GnuCash ($250), Quanta Plus ($200), PCLinuxOS ($300), The GIMP ($300), Vidalinux ($200), Fluxbox ($200), K3b ($350), Arch Linux ($300), Kile KDE LaTeX Editor ($100) and UNICEF - Tsunami Relief Operation ($340)
- 2005: Vim ($250), AbiWord ($220), BitTorrent ($300), NdisWrapper ($250), Audacity ($250), Debian GNU/Linux ($420), GNOME ($425), Enlightenment ($250), MPlayer ($400), Amarok ($300), KANOTIX ($250) and Cacti ($375)
- 2006: Gambas ($250), Krusader ($250), FreeBSD Foundation ($450), GParted ($360), Doxygen ($260), LilyPond ($250), Lua ($250), Gentoo Linux ($500), Blender ($500), Puppy Linux ($350), Inkscape ($350), Cape Linux Users Group ($130), Mandriva Linux ($405, a Powerpack competition), Digikam ($408) and SabayonLinux ($450)
- 2007: GQview ($250), Kaffeine ($250), sidux ($350), CentOS ($400), LyX ($350), VectorLinux ($350), KTorrent ($400), FreeNAS ($350), lighttpd ($400), Damn Small Linux ($350), NimbleX ($450), MEPIS Linux ($300), Zenwalk Linux ($300)
- 2008: VLC ($350)
* * * * *
New distributions added to database
* * * * *
New distributions added to waiting list
- Maryan Linux. Maryan Linux is an unofficial variant of Linux Mint, featuring the Enlightenment window manager.
* * * * *
DistroWatch database summary
And this concludes the latest issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 11 February 2008.
1 • vlc - good choice (by vlc user on 2008-02-04 10:55:13 GMT from Finland) |
Long live VLC! Good choice. It really rules. Plays everything and is
easy to use.
2 • VLC & Maryan (by Soloact on 2008-02-04 11:04:35 GMT from United States)
VLC, always an excellent choice!
I went to the Maryan home page, and found no downloadable Distro there. It seems like this is the person's dream to put out the Distro, per some of the commenters who mentioned that "...have waited forever..." for any release of this Distro.
IMHO, if one wants Mint with an alternate desktop, just install Mint, then install the alternate desktop from the Mint/Ubuntu repositories.
That's what I did on a laptop, the alternate desktop (KDE) works well with Mint.
Have a great day everyone!
3 • Mandriva PP at Linux Magazine (by Anonymous Coward on 2008-02-04 11:24:15 GMT from United States)
Hats off to Mandriva for "giving away" 2008 PP edition at the end of its life (just prior to 2008.1 PP). This is sure to promote some interest because 2008 PP is darn good, and Mandriva needs a boost - especially in the US. Now, the eeeMandriva edition with subscription repositories tailored to the eee, please!
4 • But the TurboLinux Thing... (by Anonymous Coward on 2008-02-04 11:28:35 GMT from United States)
But that TurboLinux deal is just creepy. Too near the SCO and Redmond crooks. Doesn't look good at all. I won't pick up a copy of Suse or Xandros, and if Mandriva signs the patent protection agreement with the Redmond mafia, they're off the list too.
5 • Front Page Reviews Sucks (by Helium on 2008-02-04 11:45:09 GMT from Philippines)
I used to read reviews from the front page of this site. But I stopped because they have become bunch of craps. They bore me to death. Show some exciting reviews dude! That's what Linux needs nowadays.
6 • Qu 3 : "2008 PP edition at the end of its life" (by dbrion on 2008-02-04 11:46:14 GMT from France)
What is the date, today?
When does the spring begin?
I do not understand what the end of a distrib. version means: I just asked one of my colleagues to type 'uname -a' and noticed ... she had a 22.214.171.124 kernel; I furthermore asked whether (s)he wanted to have a shinier, USB friendly, newer Linux (some were released, within > 3 years) and (s)he answered 'no, bugs are known and worked around' => I hope I have the rpm CDROM to add some softs..
One may be very happy with an 'outdated' Linux (as long as HW goes on being supported) and with upgrading one's favourite applications / finding other ones potentially favorite (knowing thoroughly an application like R or Saga -there are hundreds of them-) can take 2 or more months....
FYI I bought a Mandriva PowerPack 2007.1 Spring for Christmas 2007 .. as a gift => I suppose someone was happy..
7 • No subject (by Selket on 2008-02-04 11:56:20 GMT from China)
i admit i am a distro hopper. In search of perfection. I tryed belenix and the indiana preview. But i didnt get really warm with them i think they should concentrate more on Advantages they already have over the other OS. But they try to copy linux what i think its a bad idea. sure gnu stuff is fine but if they could run Windows EXE files without any wine shit. Hey that would be awesome.
I mean Solaris has NOT ONE killerapp that really most people will rush to Solaris. Linux is save free and stable.
If SUN dont make something this great kernel will disappaer
8 • Mandriva's Current State (by Alex Yang-Nikodym on 2008-02-04 12:01:14 GMT from Canada)
I've always liked Mandriva. Back when I just started using Linux, Mandriva's current Powerpack came pre-installed with Cedega and FlatOut. Which was awesome. Well, aside from the fact that after I bought it, it didn't work with my Radeon 9250.
Point is, they're just a bit nervous... I think. It's hard to tell with some companies. And if they make some questionable business deals, who cares? Just don't buy the product.
9 • 404-link (by HeinzVoerbakje on 2008-02-04 12:22:47 GMT from Netherlands)
The link to PCLinuxOS on the donations-list goes 404.... it points to http://www.pclinuxonline.com/pclos/index.html
I think it should be something like http://www.pclinuxos.com
10 • Solaris? (by Jay on 2008-02-04 12:36:10 GMT from United States)
I've been thinking and thinking recently about trying out Solaris. The thing that's stopping me is: I think Solaris probably won't support my hardware well, and also - as somebody noted above, I don't see any "killer feature" that would compel me to take the plunge.
Linux users like sexy - make stuff faster or shinier and I'm there!
Oh - another thing, does Solaris suffer from the same affliction as BSD partitioning wise? That's what has kept me from trying FreeBSD/PC-BSD.. last time I checked, you had to give it the first partition on the disk and it didn't play nicely with others, unlike my Linux which happily installs anywhere and dual boots without any problems.
11 • No subject (by Sokraates on 2008-02-04 13:24:41 GMT from Austria)
A nice DWW issue. The article on BSD was rather superficial. It would be nice to have a series of articles describing the most popular OpenSolaris-based distributions with their advantages and disadvantages in more detail. Though it probably wouldn't make sense at this stage of the development of OpenSolaris.
Slackware going KDE4 soon actually surprised me beyond description, considering how conservative a distribution Slackware usually is. Volkerding must have great expectations regarding KDE4.
I've been using KDE4.0.0 as my my primary DE since RC2 and I have had good and bad moments, where the bad ones regard bugs, not missing features. GNOME and KDE3 applications hamper KDE 4.0.0 quite a bit, but at least the problems relating to KDE3 applications will be solved, once the ported or native versions are released.
All in all I'm very fond of KDE4.0.0, but I neither recommend it at this stage, nor do I show it off to friends. The problems usually appear in such situations. ;)
12 • Re: #7 (by Michael Magua on 2008-02-04 13:30:56 GMT from South Africa)
13 • Sun MicroSystems (by Stryker on 2008-02-04 13:59:06 GMT from United States)
Because of the success of Linux on the desktop/server arena, SUN & M$ advertisements compare their products against it; i.e. "M$ TCO is cheaper than LINUX; SUN boxes (4200, 4600, etc.) are "greener". Concentrate on your strengths (ZFS & UNIX), you're more likely to stay ahead of that curve. SUN entry into x86 is the worst (x86 servers are badly designed); maybe they're put together by the bean counter commitee.
Tried to get a non-Vista, non-Windows or non-OS included box at Best Buy; they wouldn't sell me one.
14 • Stryker, Try Tiger Direct. (by Skurge on 2008-02-04 14:07:33 GMT from United States)
If you know what you need, they have a pretty broad selection.
15 • NetBSD, the toughest of all?! (by Béranger on 2008-02-04 14:14:31 GMT from Romania)
> NetBSD has a reputation of being the hardest of all BSDs to set up and use...
How exactly is NetBSD harder to set up and use than OpenBSD?!
Pls don't tell me that this is because you don't have binary packages on a CD...
16 • re:14 (by Styker on 2008-02-04 14:29:40 GMT from United States)
Thanks. Will give that a shot-had forgot about that. Am going brain-dead (supporting too many winOS on sun x86 platform.
17 • nimbleX (by twodogs on 2008-02-04 14:39:55 GMT from United States)
how many desktop environments?
18 • My graphic design skills must really suck (by Sam on 2008-02-04 14:43:39 GMT from United States)
Wow. Slackware's dev thinks KDE4 is a designer's work of GUI art? And here I was either resigning myself to Gnome land or hoping someone starts creating new skins and themes for KDE4 quickly. Oh well, what looks to me as "design by committee" must be good art in Linux Land. Hope the unwashed, ungeeky masses agree.
19 • @6 End of Life (by Anonymous Coward on 2008-02-04 15:00:22 GMT from United States)
Mandriva only supports their non-corporate desktop for about two years. 2008 has some life left, but I was also responding to "end of life" as in sales. Once 2008.1 is out it will be clearance time on the price of 2008 in order to move it off the shelves.
20 • Maryan Linux, is this a Joke? (by Anonymous on 2008-02-04 15:17:45 GMT from United States)
Maryan Linux, is this a Joke?? why Distrowatch is adding this non existing Distribution?
At the web page it says that it is going to use E17, so they do not have any beta or alphas?
since when Distrowatch is adding paper Distributions :)
21 • Re 19 I do not understand *anything* at chronology ... (by dbrion on 2008-02-04 15:34:56 GMT from France)
and at Mandriva price/support policy:
I bought a Mandriva 2007.1 (ie Spring) in Autumn 2007 (november) and it was not cheaper than in May 2007. Unless they have a new clearance theory???? It should be very, very recent, if it could explain the very low price of 2008.0 linked with Linux Magazine (cf @3) (Mandriva 2008.1 is not yet released: what is the need for a unannounced clearance policy?).
And, on /Mandrakelinux/official/iso/10.1/i586 (the way IP adresses are made for older versions are terrible, I agree) I can find *isos for MNDRV 10.1 (in 2004)....
and I can find errata list for MNDRV 2006 ... there remains some support.... though chaotic for old versions...
22 • suggestion for future donations (by Anonymous on 2008-02-04 16:38:34 GMT from Canada)
valgrind : http://valgrind.org
GIT : http://git.or.cz
wine : http://winehq.org
23 • VLC (by vasanth on 2008-02-04 17:34:25 GMT from United States)
VLC seems to be a popular choice in windows too
24 • Re: suggestion for future donations (by Artem S. Tashkinov on 2008-02-04 18:25:28 GMT from Russian Federation)
Wine hardly needs any donations because it's mostly developed by developers employed by CrossOver.
I would suggest ReactOS instead.
25 • RE 22,24:suggestion for future donations (by dbrion on 2008-02-04 18:35:02 GMT from France)
... valgrind has already a huge success (deserves it, but I doubt need it) : donating would be like giving a bottle of water to the Ocean =>
remains git from @22 suggestions (I asked a colleague what it was, and got no answer. From some google searching, I deduce it deserves being known/funded. I thank 22 for making git known)..
26 • Re 25 (by Anonymous on 2008-02-04 19:27:30 GMT from Canada)
GIT is a popular version control system originally written by Linus Torvalds to replace bitkeeper (proprietary software). It is well known in the open source community and I think it deserves a donation.
27 • Good on you, Patrick Volkerding! (by Andy on 2008-02-04 20:23:54 GMT from New Zealand)
Great to see that Patrick is happy with how KDE4 is progressing!
I agree with him - although I'm not a Slackware user (I'm running Kanotix at present), I've been running a number of KDE 4.0.0 apps and have had no problems at all.
28 • Is this a race ? (by Sprint on 2008-02-04 20:39:11 GMT from Belgium)
I using many different Linux os for a good year now and i must say, that i think all the distro's are having a race against each other for the latest and and newest distro.
But forgetting one thing ...what is the price at the finish ? another distro that does not run completely as it should have !
And for the mafia from Redmond , i hope every vista explode in there faces
29 • RE 28 "what is the price at the finish ? " (by dbrion on 2008-02-04 21:07:51 GMT from France)
I agree, and it is the user who pays it (even if free..) : one cannot test seriously, according to ones needs, Fedora, Mandriva, Suze, etc. (they release at the same time, in Autumn : as a thorough test would require two weeks -at least-, one must trust reviews : which, as they do not want to be deadly boring, want more new, sexy, etc.. 90% of the users do not need that new, sexy stuff)
It looks like TVchannels : under competition, they may broadcast detective films at monday (thus detective films amateurs cannot see all of them), westerns at thursdays, etc... pple remain faithful to their channel, but cannot know what they miss.
30 • Re: Is this a race? (by Huw on 2008-02-04 21:12:43 GMT from United Kingdom)
That's why we have Debian. ;)
31 • Re: 20 • Maryan Linux, is this a Joke? (by Ariszló on 2008-02-04 21:41:16 GMT from Hungary)
It is only on the waiting list:
32 • @30 (by Antonio on 2008-02-04 21:43:12 GMT from United States)
Add also, FreeBSD and Slackware to the mix besides Debian.
If you want to help, you run Debian Sid/Sidux, Fedora Rawhide, etc.
The race should not be about who get's there first, as long as you get there and still have the desire to push further.
33 • btw waiting list (by Ariszló on 2008-02-04 21:57:24 GMT from Hungary)
This looks really cool:
34 • Maryan Linux (by maty1206 on 2008-02-05 06:24:15 GMT from Costa Rica)
What's wrong with include our new linux distro to the waiting list???
I can't understand, why are you so angry with us.
Also, I had read that we are a paper distro.
That's really offensive.
35 • Linux Foundation interviewed Linus Torwalds (by anon on 2008-02-05 06:24:21 GMT from United States)
Microsoft's aggressive defense of its intellectual property, which includes claims that Linux violates a number of its patents, is nothing more than "a marketing thing," according to Linus Torvalds
Torvalds made the comments during the second half of an interview conducted by the Linux Foundation Executive Director Jim Zemlin :
36 • RE: 33 It could very well be a good alternative (by KimTjik on 2008-02-05 09:17:31 GMT from Sweden)
At least good it wasn't named Obuntu (Openbox). There's too many *buntus for my taste, but it still looks like a nice addition and a nice selection of applications.
Openbox is quite popular among users of "diy" distributions, but it's the first time I see one using it as default. If he's polishing it nicely it could well be one of the better lightweight *buntus around.
37 • not advertising (by roflrolf on 2008-02-05 11:21:02 GMT from Germany)
me thinks the DWWN from last week was all about advertising mandriva. and this week, featuring the linux magazin..
And no, this paragraph is not an "advertorial"; it simply serves as an alert to the easy availability of the Mandriva 2008 Powerpack DVD and the low-cost subscription offer).
no never, this isnt advertorial at all.
just a mandriva alert ;)
mandriva is better than its reputation, why change this? hehe
38 • RE: 37 not advertising (by ladislav on 2008-02-05 11:57:51 GMT from Taiwan)
The point is that I never received any money whatsoever either from Mandriva or Linux Magazine.
If you are trying to say that there has been excessive coverage of Mandriva in the last two issues of DWW, that I can accept. But since I did not receive any payment for the articles, you can't call them advertisements.
Of course, you can also accuse me of lying about receiving no money, which, I suspect, has already crossed your mind.
In the end, if you think the whole of DistroWatch is just a big advertising board, why waste time reading it?
39 • Maryan Linux (by timw06 on 2008-02-05 12:53:05 GMT from United Kingdom)
those of you wanting to know the backstory might want to have a look here (the last couple of pages):
I'll leave you to make your own decision!
40 • distros with openbox (by klu9 on 2008-02-05 13:27:28 GMT from Mexico)
IIRC there are a couple of distros with Openbox as default/only WM.
- Grafpup: a fork of Puppy Linux; small, fast, LiveCD or installable and specialized for graphics work.
- Austrumi: well it did use Openbox, now it has Compiz-Fusion. Maybe Openbox is still there as a fallback in case C-F borks. Small LiveCD.
41 • re 39 MARYAN LINUX (by Anonymous on 2008-02-05 15:41:23 GMT from United States)
wow that maty1206 and the rest of the Maryan linux they seriously need some ethics and moral classes
pretend to work for Mint and back stub them in that way and not only that they want to stay with Linux mint, WHAT'S WRONG WITH THEM
42 • @ 38 ladislav (by roflrolf on 2008-02-05 15:59:47 GMT from Germany)
no, im not saying you receive any money, nor was it my intention. i think its clear that you receive money for the ads on the site, otherwise it could be a bit hard to pay for the server and traffic, but not for any reviews. I apologise for this misunderstanding, it was never intended to hurt anyone. i like the dw and will always keep reading it. I like mandriva but will always keep using debian ;)
to me, the massive coverage seemed to be more like a case of: oh he must really like mandriva, or there is not much to say this week... thats what i wanted to say. it was unusual to see so many words around a single distribution.
It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. ..
43 • Re 42 There were more words about linux magazine (by dbrion on 2008-02-05 16:12:18 GMT from France)
which seems to have a nice content (even if Mandriva Power Pack were not added : that makes gift prices). The content of linux journals is worth being known... (it is not the same everywhere, with every journal; we have one journal which is complicated, exotic HW oriented and interesting, and 3 others at the railways stations...).
I noticed that three topics were treated in 3 weeks (Hacao, USB linux and O Solaris) which were interesting and somewhat less usual than 'I tried this distr, it has these flaws...' -I do not mean these later topics are uninformative, but these 3 topics in DWW this year might be more future oriented than testing a distr (among x00) which wo not last 16 months....-
44 • Enters stage left... (by Adam Williamson on 2008-02-05 17:28:54 GMT from Canada)
...hands Ladislav large manila envelope...exits stage right.
Whoops, was that not a good time? :)
45 • Maryan Linux (by maty1206 on 2008-02-05 17:36:13 GMT from Costa Rica)
TO by Anonymous:
We don't have any problems. We are ethical.
Linux Mint is a community for not Latin speakers.
Spanish community has received a very bad treatment in Mint.
SO we are now independient.
Who don't like our ideals so , don¡'t look us.
46 • FreeBSD (by Changturkey on 2008-02-05 17:45:39 GMT from Canada)
Where is 7.0?
47 • re:45 (by Caraibes on 2008-02-05 18:07:01 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Lo mejor es de empezar algo basado directamente en Debian, ya que varios otros empezaron un proyecto basado en Ubuntu con E17.
Sabes, deberías publicar todo en español. Hay una audiencia grande también. No todo tiene que siempre ser en inglés.
Vea esta pagina, de los Linuxeros de la República Dominicana :
48 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-02-05 18:11:09 GMT from Canada)
The problem as i see it, is that because linux has become so usable ,that now every tom dick and harry want to start their own distro.
everyone must start somewhere , but in the mint case - if you have the privilege of Clem offering advice and support and your ego cant let you see that - Give up
If you cant hit even a basic release date (set by yourself) how are you going to maintain your own distro?
You dont need your own distro, you need to join a distro as a contributer and LEARN.
Language barriers - the vast majority of the business world speaks english - luckily for you there are many spanish distros, maybe join one?
49 • No subject (by matyas on 2008-02-05 18:29:37 GMT from Germany)
Yes, indeed, where is FreeBSD 7
50 • RE 48 Lynch Tom Dick (by dbrion on 2008-02-05 18:44:11 GMT from France)
Alors que tout le monde s'excusait (et les gens qui avaient insulté les développeurs de "Mint3 Elive : on n'a pas à tenir des délais à tout prix la veille de son mariage, bénévolement), ils ont eu droit à des tonnes de sermons pompeux, verbeux et hypocrites de Clem... qui a manifestement déclenché leur schisme...
Merci, 29 pour le lien .. sur les deux *premières* pages.
Je ne comprends rien : la liste d'attente est faite pour .. attendre des distributions, pas pour s'étonner que des délais ne soient pas tenus....
51 • Mint... (by Caraibes on 2008-02-05 20:29:30 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Je dois dire que je suis impressionné par la souplesse du projet Mint. Bien que "latino de cœur", de par ma location géographique, je ne peux qu'être d'accord avec la position de Clem.
Il y a un projet, il faut un chef, qui fasse respecter la vision.Même au prix de quelques coups de pieds au cul à droite et à gauche.
Cela pose tout de même la problématique de la difficulté de gérer un tel projet sans une "grande machine" derrière soi, telle que Canonical, Red Hat, Mandriva ou Novell...
Je n'ai pu me retenir d'une pique à un poster allemand qui trainait les hispanophones dans la boue... Sans doute n'était-ce pas nécessaire...
52 • Absolute Linux-- the best for old computers!! (by Northman on 2008-02-05 21:06:52 GMT from Canada)
thanx a million times for Absolute Linux.
It's the best distro for keeping old computers alive and kicking.
Comparing with other distros for old computers, the Absolute is much faster, much lighter and consumes much less power and not resource hungry. On top of all that it's very user-friendly. I just wish i had discovered it earlier. But i'm still happy that i finally discovered a distro that ruly works on old computers, which i like to upgrade and donate to friends and neighbours.
53 • Shocked (by Landor on 2008-02-06 02:47:29 GMT from Canada)
I'm in awe that Mandriva or Gentoo, ( or insert the flavour of the day here) hasn't been bashed this issue thus far..lol
I liked Mandrake of old a lot. I've test-flown Mandriva a few times and enjoyed it immensely. I can see why Dbrion enjoys it so much. Though I don't personally use it, and although only by a small measure. I will be seeking out Linux Magazine and purchasing a few issues at the least to help Mandriva even by that small measure as I said. I know a number of people who would enjoy having the Power Pack edition handed to them.
The team you're a part of, as well as you, do a fine job in my personal opinion Adam. Oh, and I understand about the reasoning for the USB not being sold as a seperate ISO. My apologies for no reply last week. It was one of the first things that came to mind, but I still asked regardless.
Keep your stick on the ice...
54 • Linux Magazine's trial subscription (by PePa on 2008-02-06 06:37:33 GMT from Canada)
Just wanted to warn you that Linux Magazine's trial subscription left me with a bad taste, because they only ever sent 2 issues. It's a nice magazine though.
55 • RE 51 (by dbrion on 2008-02-06 08:09:35 GMT from France)
"il faut un chef, qui fasse respecter la vision"
Un *bon* chef n'intervient pas, alors que les gens se sont réconciliés, pour relancer une gueguerre: c'est de l'abus de pouvoir débile (voir le lien de @39, s'il n'a pas été expurgé)... et pas du tout respectable.
Quand à Mint, elle détient une originalité certaine : c'est la seule distribution à avoir une fôte d'orthograffe (ce, sur moins de 15 lignes) dans son annonce (dans Linux+magazine de déc 2007)... ce qui rend les discours prétentieux sur la marque et la qualité ridicules.
56 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-02-06 11:35:50 GMT from United States)
"Of all the "real" UNIX operating systems ever built, Sun Microsystems' Solaris is probably the most famous. "
Uh, no, both BSD and the original Bell Labs UNIX are more famous.
57 • Don't forget AIX (by just me on 2008-02-06 14:02:53 GMT from United States)
Lets not forget AIX from IBM and even Digital with a version. Linux is still tops though but BSD is not too shabby!
58 • Censure et dbrion (by Nico B on 2008-02-06 16:09:54 GMT from France)
Message deleted (off-topic, insulting).
59 • RE 58 A la pôvre victime de la censure (by dbrion on 2008-02-06 16:35:18 GMT from France)
Message deleted (off-topic).
60 • dbrion (by Nico B on 2008-02-06 18:34:06 GMT from France)
Message deleted (off-topic).
61 • Réponse exacte, quoique partielle au spécialiste des secrètions (by dbrion -re 60- on 2008-02-06 18:52:10 GMT from France)
* Dans Linux+ DVD de décembre 2007, Monseigneur Clem a fait une pitoyable annonce de son 'linux' démagogique, avec dau moins une faute d'orthographe .. en 15 lignes... ce qui fait un contraste énorme avec l'annonce et l'explication de Kaella Knoppix, dans le même numèro,... qui, elle, mérite des éloges et non unen constatation d'incompétence.
Lisez le lien de @39 et vous verrez un grossier, lourd et redondant abus de pouvoir de Monseigneur clem.
Pour votre information, il m'arrive de travailler avec des linuxiens civilisés et tolérants, qui ne basent pas leur délire sur des sécrétions("se contente de cracher ", dans votre chef d'oeuvre 58)...
Je continuerai si vous le mendigotez (vous avez une notion grotesqaue de la dignité) dans la comparaison entre un blingbling linux et des dizaines de linuxes sérieux.
62 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-02-06 20:16:10 GMT from France)
nicob, les élucubrations du père ubu parlent d'elles mêmes, pas besoin de perdre ton temps (sauf si tu aimes t'amuser avec le personnage).
63 • RE 62 S/elucubrations/faits/ (by dbrion on 2008-02-06 20:27:41 GMT from France)
* Achetez Linux+ magazine de décembre 2007et lisez l'annonce de * Mint... Comparez (désolé de ne pas pouvoir le fournir, mais je n('ai pas à payer pout l'incompétence de fanatiques de Mint)
En plus, il y aa d'autres articles intéressants (pas de la psychologie de bazar, ni des procès d'intention).
* allez sur ;le site de
et vous verrez comment sont traités les développeurs du truc verdâtre. Du fait qu(''ils ne sont pas payés, traités avec mépris pour leur travail, c'est un abus de pouvoir.
Ca serait oplus intelligent que de pleurer pour un banissement .. . et de se trouver (de son propre aveu!!!) dans la situation de l'arroseur arrosé (cf les posts grandiloquents et délirants de 58)
J'en déduis que Mint est basé sur la démagogie, le monsonge (cf post 62) et le mépris des vrais développeurs..
64 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-02-06 21:01:44 GMT from Canada)
Attention all - New distro
"Pipe dream linux"
pipe dream linux is based on linux mint and features the enlightenment window manager. It will be followed by "pipe dream mini" a stripped down linux mint based on the daryna distribution.
both distros are to be released early 2012
65 • Pipe Dream Linux ... WOWZA!! (by Warp0 on 2008-02-06 21:07:18 GMT from United States)
Is it true that Pipe Dream Linux is available in both languages ... English and American English?
66 • dbrion (by Nico B on 2008-02-06 21:08:44 GMT from France)
62: Merci, vous avez raison. Je perds mon temps. Les arguments sont creux et on sent un manque total de connaissances en ce qui concerne le sujet traité (Linux Mint). Ce qui m'afflige c'est que cela devienne une caractéristique de distrowatch qui peut à peut de recensement informatif par les contributions négatives de zouaves tels que dbrion se transforme en machine à taper. Le distro-bashing est pitoyable et on le sent ici de plus en plus présent.
J'apprends en général beaucoup des articles de DW Weekly, j'aimerais pouvoir en dire autant de la section commentaires. Esperons que Ladislav soit à l'écoute. Mon premier post s'étant vu censuré j'en déduis qu'il comprend le Français.
67 • Misc. comments from me (by BlueJayofEvil on 2008-02-06 21:15:31 GMT from United States)
I'm also sondering where FreeBSD 7.0 is.
I've tried the "Nevada" build of Solaris and liked it, but not as much as *BSD or Linux. Solaris desparately needs more drivers, as even my 5 or 6 year old Sound Blaster Audigy is unusable (I had to use my motherboard's audio chipset). OpenSolaris is improving, even a bit more quickly than most Linux/BSD distro's.
I'm also glad to see Gentoo sorting out its problems, even if Daniel Robbins isn't in the picture (I looked forward to see him return, but I guess as long as things are getting better, there's no need to be upset over anything).
68 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-02-06 21:17:25 GMT from France)
C'est dommage que le bashing soit de plus en plus présent, oui (on a eu quand même eu droit à une accalmie pendant quelques numéros).
De même pour les fixations de certains contributeurs qui les ressassent ou les déclinent à l'infini.
Quoi qu'il en soit des commentaires, merci à ladislav pour ce site très utile!
69 • Re 66 (by dbrion on 2008-02-06 21:18:51 GMT from France)
Ne vous vantez pas d'avoir été "censuré" lorsque vous pleurez pour un banissement....
Au fait, j'ai installé (en 1994), programmé pour des tâche en temps réél et géré (sans panne logicielle ni interruption du système autre que celle de l'EDF ou bris de matériel, jusqu'en 2003) une Solaris (pas Open) Avoir une compétence dans un linux démagogique ne m'interesse en aucune manière... Se moquer d'un développeur qui quitte Mint est honteux.
70 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-02-06 21:24:47 GMT from France)
la poutre et la paille...
71 • Qu 68, 70 Quelle est votre contribution? (by dbrion on 2008-02-06 21:34:05 GMT from France)
Idée nouvelle, connaisssance? Pouvez vous le prouver?
72 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-02-06 21:49:21 GMT from France)
Non. C'est justement ce que je dis. Que ceux qui répètent sans cesse la même chose ferait mieux de se taire. Et se limiter à leur interventions intéressantes.
Car les votres le sont de temps en temps, si si, ça vous arrive. Dommage qu'elles soient perdues dans le flot perpétuel de vos fixations personnelles car du coup, sauf exception, je ne vous lis plus.
Se taire. Ce que je vais faire dès maintenant faire car justement je commence à me repeter. Vous voyez, il est possible de reconnaître ses torts et ses poutres, on n'en meurt pas. Bien au contraire.
73 • Is DistroWatch a French website? (by Sheeesh on 2008-02-07 06:00:15 GMT from Australia)
No offence to those speaking French but could please stick to a common language understood (good or bad) and written (good or bad) by al others who visit this site?
I have no problem with French (language, people, etc) but if you want to rant in your own lingo then maybe you should either offer a translation for the rest of us or simply take it somewhere else hey?
P.S. I assume from the deleted posts that you guys are off-topic...
74 • Maryan Linux (by molom on 2008-02-07 07:26:26 GMT from Australia)
Maryan Linux hasn't been released yet, its just in the waiting list. I know that and a beta should be available within a week.
The people who are working in Maryan Linux haven't been treated as well as some others in the Mint community. This is not because of racism or anything, just personal preference or just a problem with time.
And there were a HUGE amount of misunderstandings because the developers and helpers were new to the way Mint releases their community editions. The developers didn't like the method so they left it. This isn't backstabbing.
Me, Maty and every other Mint E17 supporter wants to start a new slate and not start any fights again. I still love Linux Mint and the Linux Mint community and don't have anything against them, they are a nice family.
Please don't criticize us for the past, its best if we and the Mint community forget and develop a nice distro.
If you love E17 use Maryan Linux when its available or if you aren't comfortable with it try some other e17 distros gOS, OZOS, elive, OpenGEU and others. If you don't like E17 use Linux Mint.
75 • re #73 (by areuareu on 2008-02-07 11:57:27 GMT from France)
I can reassure you: you don't lose anything :)
76 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-02-07 12:02:04 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi. Does anyone know of a good distro that will run in 128MB of ram. I have a Compaq Evo N600c laptop that has 128MB.
I went out and bought Linux Magazine and installed Mandriva on my desktop machine and love it! Its quite smooth and slick and it recognised all my hardware. Not had any problems since installing.
I don't think Mandriva has had anymore coverage in DW than any other distro, but it seemed to get a few people's feathers ruffled this week. It must be hard at times to keep things balanced, but I think Ladislav does a good job!
77 • 76 (by Anonymous on 2008-02-07 12:18:54 GMT from United States)
Are you looking for a beginner's distro?
You will have to forget about gnome or kde. Check out PCFluxboxOS, Fluxbuntu, or AntiX. AntiX will use the fewest resources. A less newbie-friendly distro that will be very fast in 128 MB is Vector (Std). You can also check out this:
There are other options, but these are my favorite low resource distros.
78 • re #77 (by Anonymous on 2008-02-07 14:08:20 GMT from United Kingdom)
not necessarily looking for a beginner's distro.
Think I've got a copy of Fluxbuntu somewhere. I've used Vector before and liked, but thought it would need at least 256MB. I will give AntiX a try aswell.
Thanks for the link and your help!
79 • RE 74 MARYAN LINUX (by Anonymous on 2008-02-07 15:58:37 GMT from United States)
some words from the administrator of MARYAN LINUX
"No recibimos en nuestra opinión, un trato demasiado amable, ni recibimos ningún apoyo por parte del staff, todo lo contrario.
Por un malentendido, y por la relación entre los miembros del Staff hispano-hablantes y los anglo-parlantes, y ante la falta de respeto y aprecio por nosotros, hemos decidido mudarnos al nuevo portal, donde el trato es mas agradable y se reconocen los esfuerzos que hace la gente.
Así la versión E17 que desarrollaba la comunidad hispana, ha desaparecido, y en su lugar ha surgido una nueva distribución basada en Mint, con escritorio E17 llamada Maryan Linux, que en un futuro posiblemente se base en Ubuntu, o Debian."
make your own decision
80 • @78 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-02-07 16:55:50 GMT from Canada)
Since you have Mandriva already, it'll install fine into 128MB. As the other guy said, forget KDE or GNOME (though I ran GNOME from 2.2 through 2.14 in 128MB...), but many low-resource window managers are packaged for MDV: IceWM, Fluxbox, EDE, WindowMaker and quite a few more.
A dedicated low-resource distro will likely have a few more tweaks out of the box, but 128MB is enough for a 'big' distro like MDV to be okay in with a bit of tweaking around. It's 64MB and lower when you really need to break out the specialized distros.
81 • re: 80,78,76 (by ray carter at 2008-02-07 17:18:35 GMT from United States)
IMHO - one of the best distros for 'light' computers like that is Elive. I installed it last year on a P166 with 64mb - ran quite nicely.
82 • 80 (by Anonymous on 2008-02-07 17:44:26 GMT from United States)
Does MDV have a "minimal installation" option like say Debian? I looked and looked but didn't find one. Or maybe you have to download an entire DVD like with Fedora.
83 • @82 (by Adam Williamson on 2008-02-07 22:55:01 GMT from Canada)
There used to be one but I'm not sure if it's still there. You need to go to the more detailed level of package selection (there's a point where you can pick GNOME, KDE, or a more detailed package selection step, go for that).
If you unselect all package groups and then go to individual package selection and just pick your light desktop of choice, you'll get a pretty light install.
There is also a special edition you can use, the Mini CD edition. It contains very minimal i586 and x86-64 builds on a single CD (so each is only half a CD big). Obviously, if you install from that, you get a very minimal installation.
84 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2008-02-08 01:09:32 GMT from United Kingdom)
Well I tried Fluxbuntu but it just wasn't right. A bit slow and too brighter desktop scheme. Xubuntu installed ok and seemed to run quite well. I couldn't load Mandriva as the laptop dosen't have a dvd drive. I had Vector 5.8 on CD and installed that and I think its great. Its nice and fast and it only takes up 64MB leaving plenty of ram to run other programs. I did try installing Windows 2000 on it earlier, but by the time I had updated it and had antivirus, firewall and spyware on, there was no memory left to do anything else!
I know someone will say why don't you just add more ram. I would but I ain't got the money.
So Vector it is!! :-)
85 • RE: 84 --Have you tried CrunchBang? (by IMQ on 2008-02-08 01:58:14 GMT from United States)
It is Ubuntu-based but using Openbox (similiar to Fluxbox).
I am testing it on a PC with 512MB and on an old laptop with 320MB.
Also, take a look at Puppy Linux or GoblinX (Slackware-based). Goblinx 2.6 Mini uses XFCE. And Absolute Linux, another Slackware-based using IceWM.
86 • No subject (by molom on 2008-02-08 06:06:31 GMT from Australia)
Ummm.... That isn't the administrator of Maryan Linux, that is the administrator of the Hispanic Linux Mint website.
87 • CrunchBang Linux is very nice (by Anonymous on 2008-02-08 12:18:36 GMT from Qatar)
Yes, I agree, CrunchBang Linux run very nicely on my old laptop with 256MB.
88 • 84 (by Anonymous on 2008-02-08 12:46:32 GMT from United States)
Congratulations that Vector worked.
"why don't you just add more ram"
Well, that's the point of Linux, isn't it? You work with the hardware you have, not the hardware an executive at a large corporation commands you to buy.
89 • 84, 88 : "why don't you just add more ram." (by dbrion on 2008-02-08 13:42:05 GMT from France)
On a laptop? it has very tiny screws...
90 • RE 56 You are historically right (by dbrion on 2008-02-08 13:51:06 GMT from France)
"Of all the "real" UNIX operating systems ever built, Sun Microsystems' Solaris is probably the most famous. "
Uh, no, both BSD and the original Bell Labs UNIX are more famous.
but Suns were not that expensive in the early 1990s: people who used them professionaly (though they are not DWW majoritary audience) may have very good memories and have compared them with Windows ME...=> they left but good memories.
They had a not too complicated system, very stable (unless one had automagic updates) and not too uncomfortable (some kind of ICEWm worked). If , even in 2012 (the intellectual value -cf @64- of delays deadlines is questionable), a free OpenSolaris is easy to install and recognizes most of the HW, they may install it, and be happy with it...as they were a century ago...
91 • No subject (by David on 2008-02-08 14:01:10 GMT from United Kingdom)
Never tried Crunchbang before. The laptop only has 128MB though. I did use Puppy Linux for a bit which was good, but I also really enjoyed using Damn Small Linux. That was my favourite when I had no hard drive in the laptop, I could just load DSL into ram as it has such a small memory footprint. But I'm now settled on Vector.
Thanks for the different suggestions of distro. Its mind boggling the choice. No can ever accuse Linux of being boring!! :-)
92 • RE: 91 (by IMQ on 2008-02-08 19:36:05 GMT from United States)
Vector Linux is a good choice. Which version do you run?
DSL is very fast indeed. I never tried it for a long term test on a HD. I think it is designed to run as LiveCD or in RAM which is the way I prefer to run it.
93 • crunchbang (by capricornus on 2008-02-08 20:02:21 GMT from Belgium)
I just tired Crunchbang on my PackardBell Athlon2000 and it seemed to do well untill it crashed after 4 minutes or so. That means I have another throw-away-CD tonight. I'll just admire my Daryna and Mepis7.
94 • RE: 91 (by anticapitalista on 2008-02-08 20:35:31 GMT from Greece)
Why not give antiX a try. Default is fluxbox, but icewm is also there.
Another option not mentioned, though it is still a beta, is TinyMe using openbox.
95 • Re #92, 94 (by David on 2008-02-09 00:01:07 GMT from United Kingdom)
I'm running Vector 5.8 Standard. The only annoyance I have with it, is I can't scroll pages with the touchpad and there's not many configuration options in the mouse settings. Not the end of the world though!
AntiX is on my list to try in the near future. Might look at Tinyme aswell.
96 • Linux mint (by Linux user on 2008-02-09 05:18:45 GMT from United States)
I have been really happy with Linux mint. I always got frustrated with Ubuntu's lack of media support.
-It is compatible with and uses Ubuntu repositories
-It is a Debian-based distribution and as such it is very solid and it comes with one of the greatest package managers.
-It is compatible with and uses Ubuntu repositories. This gives Linux Mint users access to a huge collection of packages and software.
-It comes with a lot of desktop improvements which make it easier for the user to do common things.
-There is a strong focus on making things work out of the box (WiFi cards drivers in the file system, multimedia support, screen resolution, etc).
-The Information just given is from the Linux mint website located here http://www.linuxmint.com/about.php
97 • Solaris (by cgrille on 2008-02-09 08:04:53 GMT from Germany)
I have recently installed Solaris b81 on my notebook and it went surprisingly well. It uses Gnome and detected my nvidia and uses the right resolution and 3D-driver.
On startup there is an popup that list all found wlans (the connect has not yet astablished, perhaps because of wpa). The Broadcom network build in the
notebook is not supported, but I think it will work with ndiswrapper.
98 • donation (by john frey on 2008-02-09 17:50:56 GMT from Canada)
Glad to see VLC receive a donation. I've used the software for years and could not do without it. When nothing else will play a video file VLC can. A great piece of software.
99 • Congratulations! (by Jerry on 2008-02-09 23:25:41 GMT from United States)
I would like to extend my congratulations to SuSE (or is it SUSE.. ?.. Novel or .. whatever) for producing, after over ten years of betas and alphas, another piece of feces for us all to smell.
And to the linux community at large, all of the distros out there which will morph and degenerate.. I mean "evolve" every several weeks, more feces for the linux "community" to drive themselves insane over.
Mac and Windows: thank you for giving us real operating systems.
100 • Linux usage is on the rise and Ubuntu Forum membership is a good (by Indicator on 2008-02-09 23:51:17 GMT from Australia)
Ubuntu Forums Statistics : Members: 499,343 (main forums at http://ubuntuforums.org/ )
A further 320K + members are to be found in the various non-English language community forums at http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/webforums and the all total memberships are edging closer to the 1,000,000 mark!
101 • Re 100 - Some Stats (by Anonymous on 2008-02-09 23:58:26 GMT from Australia)
Ubuntu International forums
Chinese Ubuntu Forums
Current online - 72,855 registered members
Member registration is the latest Gust
At present, there are 679 online friends:: 14 members, not stealth members and 665 tourists [Administrator] [Moderator]
Online is the highest record 11,028 people 2008-2-01 Friday, 4:28
German Ubuntu Forums - 60415 registered users
We have 60415 registered users.
A total of 157 users online: 5 registered, 2 hidden and 150 guests. [Ubuntuusers.de Team]
The record stands at 788 users on 23.10.2007, 20:09.
French Ubuntu Forums - registered users: 64575
Registered users connected at 10 Guests connected at 228
Italian Ubuntu Forums - 37,686 users
Users Online Visitors 84, 8 Users
Online Today: 338. Record Online Attendance: 909 (26 April, 2007, 20:01:47)
Polish Ubuntu Forums - Użytkownicy: 29 958
Użytkownicy: 29 958, Aktywni Użytkownicy: 4 827
Russian Ubuntu Forums - 19061 members
Users Online Visitors 73, 13 Users
st = 284k
Dutch Ubuntu Forums - registered users: 8716
Czech Ubuntu Forums - 8751 members
Statistiky fóra - 8751 uživatelů. Nejnovější uživatel: ac.milan
Uživatelů online 2 Hostů, 1 Uživatel (1 Skrytých)
Nejvíc online (dnes): 15. Nejvíc online: 479 (29.09.2007, 21:36:36:56)
st = 301.4k
Finish Ubuntu Forums - Jäseniä yhteensä: 6766
Näytä keskustelualueen viimeisimmät viestit.
[Lisää tilastoja] Jäseniä yhteensä: 6766
Paikalla olevat käyttäjät 27 vierasta, 4 jäsentä
Swedish Ubuntu Forums - 7329 Medlemmar.
Forumstatistik 175 737 inlägg i 19 855 ämnen av 7 329 Medlemmar. Nyaste medlemmen: h20
Senaste inlägg: "SV: Program för att skri..." ( idag kl. 03:12 )
Visa de senaste inläggen på forumet.
Användare online 30 gäster, 1 användare
Flest online idag: 83. Flest online någonsin: 388 (02 Juli, 2007, 22:22)
Serbian Ubuntu Forums - 1703 korisnika
Persian Ubuntu Forums - 1476 members
ST = 317k
Chile Ubuntu Forums - 3235 members
3235 usuarios registrados
En total hay 22 usuarios online :: 1 Registrado,
La mayor cantidad de usuarios online fue 136 el Dom Jul 01, 2007 6:23 pm
Costa Rica Ubuntu Forums - 184 members
Estadísticas SMF 556 Mensajes en 135 Temas por 184 Usuarios.
Usuarios en Línea 3 Visitantes, 0 Usuarios
Most Online Today: 5. Most Online Ever: 33 (Junio 25, 2007, 11:13:23 )
Mexico Ubuntu Forums - 762 Usuarios
Estadísticas SMF 3370 Mensajes en 648 Temas por 762 Usuarios.
Usuarios en Línea 4 Visitantes, 0 Usuarios
Most Online Today: 4. Most Online Ever: 14 (Noviembre 16, 2007, 12:29:44 pm)
St = 321k
102 • re #99 (by hab on 2008-02-10 07:47:58 GMT from Canada)
If your demonstrated understanding and perception are existential than you indeed have my deepest sympathy.
If you have nothing other to contribute than this, please take your ball and go home!
I, for one, could give a flying fsck for your views.
103 • Qu 99,100 : Is the number a good indicator of the quality? (by dbrion on 2008-02-10 14:12:52 GMT from France)
@100 One does not know whether the forum frequentation indicates that people are happy, and sing "Oh UBU linux is great, Allelujah!" or they beg for help, in a desparate number.
@99 "Mac and Windows: thank you for giving us real operating systems."
As does Redhat, Mandriva and many others...
a) Apple contributed to at least one GNU desktop...If GNU desktops were that BS, it would be a waste of money.. the user (amateur of real systems) would pay.
b) The short release times , which mainly lead to bad quality, unstable OSes are linked with fancy HW and drivers (this HW will loose value very fast: developping soft for that fancy HW is either a passion or a bd bet). Anyway, it is the consequence of unthought demands from "gosses de riches", who cannot think above their trousers belts.. as you proved it in a grandiose way...
104 • crunchbang (by capricornus on 2008-02-10 14:29:55 GMT from Belgium)
I tried crunchbang on another system, but is it really worth trying and working with? It is the worse I've seen since late 2006.
105 • RE 67 and 97 Thanks : today is Sun day (by dbrion on 2008-02-10 14:53:09 GMT from France)
and, as there is some hope that OpenSolaris will work in a not that far future, it is time wondering whether O"Solaris can make one user happy.
106 • RE:104 (by IMQ on 2008-02-10 17:31:47 GMT from United States)
If you are not comfortable with manually editing configuration files, then it is highly recommended that you choose a more user-friendly interface like XFCE, GNOME or KDE.
CrunchBang's interface is Openbox, which is similiar to Fluxbox. From what I have read so far, there are basically only 2 files to play with as far as configuration is concerned. Maybe, there is a 3rd file used for autostart.
As far as I can tell, you must edit the menu file to add or remove *entries* for packages you install.
Also, CrunchBang does not have a desktop environment (DE) like XFCE, GNOME, or KDE. Openbox is a Window Manager.
I kinda like the simplicity of Openbox, Fluxbox, or Blackbox. It takes time to getting used to.
Number of Comments: 106
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
|• Issue 508 (2013-05-20): Review of Debian 7.0, interviews with Clement Lefebvre and Gaël Duval, scripting with xdotool|
|• Issue 507 (2013-05-13): Impressions of Calculate Linux, 13.4, Ubuntu's portable packages, mintDrivers|
|• Issue 506 (2013-05-06): Ubuntu and Kubuntu 13.04, Debian "Wheezy", Slackware on systemd, distros for Raspberry Pi|
|• Issue 505 (2013-04-29): First look at PCLinuxOS 2013.04, Saucy Salamander, Remastersys and System Imager, Linux containers|
|• Issue 504 (2013-04-22): Look at Bodhi 2.3.0, Ubuntu 13.04 features, building OpenBSD ports, opening large files|
|• Issue 503 (2013-04-15): CentOS versus Scientific Linux, PCLinuxOS 64, Lucas Nussbaum, ZFS/Btrfs versus ext4|
|• Issue 502 (2013-04-08): Look at Mint 201303 "Debian", Ubuntu versus openSUSE, comparing ZFS and Btrfs file systems|
|• Issue 501 (2013-04-01): KANOTIX 2013 and GhostBSD 3.0, openSUSE Rescue-CD, Haiku package management, computer forensics|
|• Issue 500 (2013-03-25): Look at openSUSE 12.3, Ubuntu release changes, Debian backports, growing divide|
|• Issue 499 (2013-03-18): MINIX 3.2.1, openSUSE 12.3 on desktop, Ubuntu GNOME and UbuntuKylin, distros for musicians, KolibriOS|
|• Issue 498 (2013-03-11): Sabayon Linux 11, Ubuntu's Mir, Linux malware|
|• Issue 497 (2013-03-04): Rebellin Linux 1.00 "Adrenaline", rolling-release Ubuntu, Arch vs spin-offs, justification and diversity|
|• Issue 496 (2013-02-25): Review of Chakra 2013.02, The Book of GIMP, Ubuntu and privacy, FreeNAS vs NAS4Free|
|• Issue 495 (2013-02-18): SparkyLinux 2.1 "Ultra", Fedora 19 schedule, Xubuntu on DVD, cloud privacy|
|• Issue 494 (2013-02-11): FreeBSD 9.1, web server stats, Anaconda, rolling-release PC-BSD, fixing broken packages in Arch|
|• Issue 493 (2013-02-04): UberStudent 2.0, OmniBoot 1.0, MariaDB, Enlightenment 0.17|
|• Issue 492 (2013-01-28): Fedora 18 review, systemd, Kali Linux, Ubuntu Unleashed|
|• Issue 491 (2013-01-21): Fuduntu 2013.1, Fedora 18 desktop choices, Consort, accessing encrypted drive|
|• Issue 490 (2013-01-14): Look at Manjaro Linux 0.8.3, openSUSE on Chromebook, Able2Extract 8.0|
|• Issue 489 (2013-01-07): PC-BSD 9.1, Arch spin-offs, rolling-releases, year-end PHR stats, removing applications|
|• Issue 488 (2012-12-24): Reviews of Unity and Puppy Linux 5.4 "Slacko", FreeBSD 10|
|• Issue 487 (2012-12-17): Cinnarch 2012.11.22, OpenMandriva, Fedora Magazine, Tumbleweed, OpenJDK vs Oracle Java|
|• Issue 486 (2012-12-10): Linux Mint 14 review, Ubuntu "spyware" controversy, Haiku overview, troubleshooting Linux servers|
|• Issue 485 (2012-12-03): Kwort Linux 3.5, Mint bug-fix update, Fedora's new Anaconda, defining a distribution|
|• Issue 484 (2012-11-26): Look at SMS 2.0.1, Fedora pre-beta report, Illumos, Secure Boot update|
|• Issue 483 (2012-11-19): DragonFly BSD 3.2.1 and Xubuntu 12.10, Gentoo and udev, switching file systems|
|• Issue 482 (2012-11-12): Review of Zenwalk 7.2, Clang in FreeBSD, Omniboot 0.5, priorities on external drives|
|• Issue 481 (2012-11-05): Look at Tails 0.13, EFF on Ubuntu and privacy, Debian installer changes, ext4 data corruption bug|
|• Issue 480 (2012-10-29): Review of Ubuntu 12.10, Wayland 1.0, FreeBSD's pkgng|
|• Issue 479 (2012-10-22): Look at Zentyal 3.0, Debian bug reporting, initiating a halt|
|• Issue 478 (2012-10-15): Slackware 14.0 review, Ubuntu donations, connecting to multiple machines behind router|
|• Issue 477 (2012-10-08): Review of ODROID-X, OpenBSD's anti-Linux song, interview with Vincent Untz, Linux as operating system|
|• Issue 476 (2012-10-01): Review of openSUSE 12.2, Slackware 14.0 features, accessing home computer with SSH|
|• Issue 475 (2012-09-24): Look at PCLinuxOS 2012.08, Ubuntu and Amazon, SolusOS and PiSi, ownCloud|
|• Issue 474 (2012-09-17): Bodhi Linux 2.0.1, OpenIndiana interview, Frugalware history, update notifications|
|• Issue 473 (2012-09-10): The Linux Command Line, Slackware documentation project, Debian's new primary arch, Goobuntu|
|• Issue 472 (2012-09-03): Kororaa Linux 17, OpenIndiana and SchilliX, Ubuntu GNOME remix, home server tip|
|• Issue 471 (2012-08-27): Linux Mint 13 "KDE", Ubuntu 12.10 features, Slax update, folder quotas|
|• Issue 470 (2012-08-20): Liberté Linux 2012.2, Arch and systemd, NetBSD's sysbuild and sysupgrade, 19 years of Debian|
|• Issue 469 (2012-08-13): Peppermint OS Three, SUSE on Secure Boot, GNOME OS, moving email to Linux|
|• Issue 468 (2012-08-06): First look at CentOS 6.3, Debian installer beta, Fedora and MATE, Libtrash|
|• Issue 467 (2012-07-30): Ubuntu Made Easy, Debian "Jessie", OpenBSD on Secure Boot, Rawhide troubles|
|• Issue 466 (2012-07-23): Fuduntu 2012.3, Linux in PC-BSD jails, secure boot on older computers|
|• Issue 465 (2012-07-16): Netrunner 4.2, Mandriva's two codebases, firewalls and window frames|
|• Issue 464 (2012-07-09): Zorin OS 6, FSF's views on secure boot, Virtual PDF Printer|
|• Issue 463 (2012-07-02): TurnKey Linux 11.3, Red Hat and Btrfs, Sabayon's MATE spin, ZFS on Linux|
|• Issue 462 (2012-06-25): Sabayon 9, "Wheezy" freeze, Zorin OS overview, Vinux interview, mounting network shares|
|• Issue 461 (2012-06-18): Linux Mint 13, openSUSE 12. delays, Debian Multimedia, Mageia 3 roadmap|
|• Issue 460 (2012-06-11): Look at Fedora 17, PC-BSD and Slackware interviews, Openfiler and FuguIta|
|• Issue 459 (2012-06-04): Impressions of Mageia 2, Fedora updates, Debian or Raspberry Pie, improving software performance|
|• Issue 458 (2012-05-28): Impressions of SolusOS 1, Linux kernel 3.4, encrypting home folder|
|• Issue 457 (2012-05-21): Linux accessibility, Fedora 17 overview, MultiSystem, launching tasks|
|• Issue 456 (2012-05-14): Look at OpenBSD 5.1, Debian Installer 7.0 alpha, UDS news round-up|
|• Issue 455 (2012-05-07): Review of Ubuntu 12.04, "Quantal Quetzal" plans, Debian infographic|
|• Full list of all issues|