| DistroWatch Weekly
|DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 179, 27 November 2006
Welcome to this year's 48th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! With the end of the year 2006 approaching fast, many developers are hard at work preparing their latest product releases. A new version of Xandros Desktop, the subject of our first look review, will be announced later this week, while SabayonLinux 3.2 and the PlayStation edition of Yellow Dog Linux 5.0 are also expected shortly. Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 is about to enter its hard-freeze period, while the recent release candidate for openSUSE 10.2 is reportedly shaping up into a highly polished distribution. Many other projects have been making steady progress towards their future releases - Freespire has launched its development process which will lead to a stable version 2.0 in the first quarter of 2007 and many far-reaching changes are also planned for the next release of Fedora Core. All these topics, together with the usual round-up of interesting news from around the distro world - that's issue 179 of DistroWatch Weekly. Happy reading!
Join us at irc.freenode.net #distrowatch
Future of Fedora, Ubuntu vs openSUSE, Debian "etch" update, Freespire 2.0
Far-reaching changes affecting the Fedora distribution are looming on the horizon. Discussed by the project's core developers during the recently concluded Fedora Summit, a number of new ideas are currently being submitted for approval by Red Hat. If they are accepted, the "Core" and "Extras" parts of Fedora will merge into what is tentatively called Fedora "Complete", with two separate products, named "Fedora Desktop" and "Fedora Server", emerging from the huge software list. Extending the current support period of about 9 months to around 13 months is another important proposal that will please many Fedora users. Those who enjoy remastering the distribution for their own purposes will be excited to learn about "pungi" and "pilgrim", two tools that will allow building custom distributions and live CDs/DVDs. Pilgrim is also expected to help with delivering an official Fedora live CD/DVD. There is a lot more - please visit the Proposed Changes to the Release Process and Live CD Roadmap pages on FedoraProject.org for more details about these and other changes affecting the popular distribution.
* * * * *
While aggressive rivalry among the main Linux distributions is nothing new, an attempt to poach developers of one major distribution by another is highly unusual. That's essentially what happened late last week when Ubuntu's Mark Shuttleworth sent a message to two openSUSE mailing lists, inviting its developers to attend Ubuntu Open Week - and indirectly suggesting that those openSUSE developers who feel angered by their employer's recent patent protection pact with Microsoft are welcome to join Ubuntu. Predictably, the email has met with utmost resentment by those who replied to the invitation, with messages ranging from polite rejection to outright anger. Even some Ubuntu developers were dismayed by the idea, suggesting that this invitation was possibly the Ubuntu leader's dumbest idea since he attempted to pass a desktop wallpaper picturing three naked bodies as work of art.
Nevertheless, Shuttleworth's invitation isn't entirely out of place. Many openSUSE users have expressed strong disapproval over the Novell/Microsoft deal and even wowed to switch distribution if Novell doesn't retract the patent agreement. Here at DistroWatch we've been getting regular emails from readers calling for removal of Novell's SUSE Linux Enterprise and even openSUSE pages from the web site and database. As such, it's highly unlikely that Novell's actions have met with full support of the openSUSE developers and although we have yet to hear of any radical action planned by them, few of us would be surprised if a group of openSUSE developers took the source code and forked it into a new distribution or joined another company or project. Shuttleworth's post should be seen as yet another way to let Novell know that its recent actions are highly damaging to the entire Linux community, thus appealing to the consciousness of those openSUSE developers who continue helping Novell and, indirectly, fuel Microsoft's anti-Linux propaganda and FUD.
* * * * *
The development of Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 "etch" is nearing its end. After some 18 months of hard work there is certainly a lot to look forward to, including the latest 2.6.18 kernel, X.Org 7.1, GNOME 2.14.3 and KDE 3.5.5. Some of the work that Ubuntu has done over the past couple of years also seem to have filtered back to Debian; as an example, the update notifier, which first appeared in Ubuntu 5.04, is now installed and enabled by default to keep everyone's Debian system up-to-date with security fixes. A "Software Preferences" dialog allows modifying the installation sources without having to resort to the command line and is accessible, together with the Synaptic package manager, directly from GNOME's Administration menu. GNOME remains the default desktop in Debian 4.0, while Epiphany, rather then the much popularised GNU IceWeasel, is the default browser. As the testing branch is about to enter the hard-freeze period prior to the release, this is the best time to test the upcoming version and report bugs.
Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 is shaping up to be the most advanced and user-friendly Debian to-date.
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Have you ever wondered where the strange Debian code names come from? If you are new to Linux, you will often see references to "sarge" (the current stable version 3.1), "etch" (the upcoming new release 4.0), "lenny" (the new name for the testing release after "etch", probably version 4.1) or "sid" (the perpetual development branch, also called "unstable"). As any seasoned Debian user will tell you, all these names come from an animation film called Toy Story, originally released in 1995. With the exception of Sid and a few other human characters in the movie, they refer to toys. But with a new name assigned to each new Debian release, what happens once Debian uses up all the names? There is no reason to worry about that at the moment - with the project's stable releases coming at rather lengthy intervals and with a large number of available toy characters, Debian is unlikely to run out of code names for at least another half a century!
* * * * *
The development of Freespire 2.0 is now officially underway. This is the first "real" Freespire as the project's 1.0 version was essentially a re-branded edition of Linspire 5.0 with a few updated packages. Freespire 2.0 is based on Debian "sid", with kernel 2.6.18, KDE 3.5.5, and custom modifications to some of the included packages, e.g. LBrowser (Firefox) and LMail (Thunderbird). It also integrates Linspire's recently launched free email (FreeLinuxEmail.com) and storage services. However, be warned that the first development release of Freespire 2.0 is not intended for general use as it's deemed too buggy and far from complete. Kevin Carmony:
"It should be noted that this is ALPHA and VERY early. You'll see lots of features missing, bugs, etc., but we wanted to start the process of circulating regular builds with the community. Those who are used to Linspire are used to seeing Beta releases that are at least feature complete. Those Linspire users should NOT assume that is the case here. Look for several regular builds in the weeks to come as Freespire evolves, gains the features as seen in the roadmap, moves to beta, and finally stable. Freespire builds during the development cycle will be much more frequent than the beta builds the Linspire community is accustomed to. So, don't judge a program by it's Alpha. We're just thrilled to start the regular build process with the community."
As always, if you'd like to help with debugging, enjoy bug-reporting and don't mind having to solve occasional problems, then by all means download and install the alpha release. Otherwise wait for a later development release before you investigate this new community distribution from Linspire.
The first development build of Freespire 2.0 was released last week.
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Xandros Desktop 4.1|
Xandros Corporation will release an updated version of Xandros Desktop 4 on Tuesday, 28 November 2006. Although the company refers to the new product by its marketing name of "Xandros Desktop Professional 4.0", here at DistroWatch it makes more sense to call it "Xandros Desktop 4.1", not least because the downloaded ISO images, which Xandros kindly provided to the press several days in advance, have "xandros-41" in their names. Also, while the new product is still based on the relatively old Debian "sarge" code base (the same core that the original Xandros Desktop 4.0 was built from), a number of new features an updated packages suggest that this is an evolutionary release, rather than a separate edition of Xandros Desktop.
But let's get on with the first look review of the new release. The Xandros installer has gone through a few minor changes, with ext3 now becoming the default file system (instead of ReiserFS preferred by the distribution's earlier versions) and an interesting option to preserve one's root and home directories by renaming them, rather then overwriting the data. As in previous versions, the Xandros installer also provides the express "take over the hard disk and don't ask any questions" option for less experienced Linux users.
The previous version of Xandros Desktop came under strong criticism for implementing a Microsoft-like activation mechanism to prevent unauthorised access to the Xandros update servers, a feature that angered many fans of the distribution. As a result of the negative feedback, the company has now abandoned the idea, so users of the latest release of Xandros Desktop are once again able to access Xandros Networks (a repository of security updates and extra software packages) without having to prove the legitimacy of their installation.
As mentioned earlier, the new Xandros Desktop maintains its old system core it inherited from Debian "sarge". Some of the important base packages remain unupdated, with glibc still on version 2.3.2 and GCC on 3.4.3, while KDE, the distribution's only desktop environment, remains on version 3.4.2 (originally released 16 months ago). But certain other components did receive an update; among them, the Linux kernel has been upgraded to version 2.6.18, with corresponding updates to proprietary graphics drivers by ATI (8.29.6) and NVIDIA (1.0-8776). Several popular packages also arrive in new attire - Firefox has been updated to version 2.0, while OpenOffice.org comes in version 2.0.3.
The new release of Xandros Desktop includes a number of interesting new features. Among them, the inaugural inclusion of Mono packages with Beagle desktop search tool and the availability of 3D desktop effects with Xgl and Compiz are the most obvious ones. In fact, the Beagle icon is now prominently displayed in the KDE system tray for easy access, allowing continuous updates to the user's files and making quick searches possible with just a few mouse clicks. However, other popular Mono-based packages, such as F-Spot or Tomboy, are not included. As for the 3D desktop effects, Xandros is the first distribution that has integrated a dialog with an option to enable 3D video effects into the KDE Control Centre.
Other new additions to Xandros Desktop 4.1 include support for wireless networking with Bluetooth, support for writing to NTFS partitions, and improved integration into mixed Windows/Linux computing environments. One obvious omission from this release is Versora Progression Desktop for Xandros, a commercial applications included in Xandros Desktop 4.0 as a way to help newcomers to Linux migrate their files and settings from Windows to Xandros.
Besides the standard installation CD with KDE, CrossOver Office (version 5.9.1), and the usual Xandros utilities, Xandros Desktop 4.1 also provides a second CD with extra applications, both free and non-free. Acrobat Reader, Imendio Planner (formerly MrProject), OpenOffice.org, GIMP, Skype, Thunderbird and a number of enterprise software packages, such as Citrix and SAP clients, are available for installation. Additionally, Xandros Networks provides access to still more software; we were pleased to see that a personal financial package, in the form of KMyMoney, has finally been added to the Xandros software repository.
At the risk of repeating the same old conclusions as before, Xandros Desktop is a solid, easy-to-use distribution with superb hardware detection and a good range of software applications for both home and business user. However, unlike the early releases of Xandros Desktop which became famous for extensive user interface enhancements and many unique ideas, most of the new features in Xandros Desktop 4.1 are not specific to Xandros. 3D desktop effects, Beagle, and NTFS write support are available in many other distributions, even the free ones. Nevertheless, the product remains a good alternative for those computer users who don't want to tinker with the command line and who prefer a complete and intuitive operating system with support and a printed manual.
English and German language editions of Xandros Desktop 4.1 (marketed as "Xandros Desktop 4 Professional") will retail at US$99.00 or €79.00. They will be available for purchase later this week from Xandros Online Shop and Xandros resellers.
Xandros Desktop 4.1 with Beagle desktop search, 3D desktop effects, encryption utilities and Xandros Security Suite.
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|Released Last Week
Vine Linux 4.0
Vine Linux 4.0 for i386 and PowerPC processors has been released. From the release notes: "This is Vine Linux version 4.0. Desktop environment: GNOME 2.14.2, including GTK+ 2.8 and glib 2.12, changed the GNOME/GTK+ theme to a better-looking Vine Linux theme; Firefox 2.0 (custom build for Vine Linux); Anthy is now included in place of Canna, SCIM and kinput2; default Japanese fonts - VL Gothic Font family is included as a default font for user interface, TeX and printing; movie player Totem and music player BMP (Beep Media Player). Kernel: this version contains kernel 126.96.36.199 with many driver updates and backports, which in turn supports many new devices. System components: X.Org X11R6.9.0 with backported drivers, updated ATI, NVIDIA and Intel drivers...." Read the full press release (in Japanese) for further details.
Vine Linux 4.0 uses apt and Synaptic for managing RPM packages.
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An updated version of Inside Security Rescue Toolkit (INSERT) has been released. From the release notes: "This release brings minor updates and a few bug fixes. The latest version of ntfs-3g is included, so people interested in using the NTFS write support should upgrade. Changes: added tsclient on user request; fixed bug with ClamAV file permissions; reverted to the debianesque GRUB; rdesktop is now v1.5.0; ntfs-3g, ntfsprogs, FUSE, TestDisk and mdadm were updated; ClamAV and AVScan were updated; a few basic packages were updated; the virus database for ClamAV was updated to the latest version."
Denis "jaromil" Rojo has announced a new stable version of dyne:bolic, an independently developed live CD with a collection of open source tools for multimedia production: "This is dyne:bolic 2.3. Starting from this release dyne:II core runs efficiently on solid state devices, loading its system from a compact-flash or similar controller. Moreover, this release significantly improves stability and performance, running Linux 2.6.18 kernel well optimized for real-time low latency, shipped along with new and updated software. New and updated software include: VNC for remote desktop operation and recording, MPlayer and ffmpeg audio/video codecs, DVD recording tools, Ksubtitle editor, FUSE, and PCMCIA card auto-detection." Please read the rest of the release announcement for further information.
An updated version of the OpenSolaris-based BeleniX live CD has been released: "A new release of BeleniX with several improvements is now available." What's new? "This release bundles the NVIDIA 3D accelerated driver; updated to OpenSolaris build 52; added a new X.Org configuration utility based on Perl-Curses; updated to Firefox 2.0 and Thunderbird 188.8.131.52; updated to KOffice 1.6.0 which fixes some issues with the earlier KOffice version; this release also bundles the C++ runtime libraries from the SUN Studio Suite; fixed the problematic bug that used to cause a boot-up error after hard disk install in the 0.5 release; fixed several other bugs including a problem with the zone creation script." Visit the project's home page to read the full release announcement.
* * * * *
Development and unannounced releases
|Upcoming Releases and Announcements
Summary of expected upcoming releases
New distributions added to waiting list
- DevUbuntu. DevUbuntu is an Ubuntu-based Linux distribution designed for software developers, web masters and aspiring programmers. It includes a great variety of programming environments with extensive documentation.
- EduPuppy GioveLUG. EduPuppy GioveLUG is a Linux distribution developed by GioveLUG of Terracina, Italy. Its main purpose is to provide a free and intuitive operating system for children - with a good collection of educational tools and games.
- mEDUXa. mEDUXa is a Free Software GNU/Linux distribution based on Kubuntu and developed for educational purposes. It will be deployed in 35,000 computers distributed in 1100 schools, which represents 325,000 possible users (25,000 teachers and 300,000 students) in the Canary Islands state schools.
* * * * *
DistroWatch database summary
And this concludes our latest issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 4 December 2006. Until then,
1 • opensuse vs ubuntu (by towsonu2003 at 2006-11-27 09:07:18 GMT from United States) |
Shuttleworth's message was problematic. But I won't discuss that now. What was interesting to me was how his message got treated as opposed to the mocking email sent to ubuntu-devel by someone (anonymous) from opensuse community. People almost cursed at him at opensuse lists. Compare that to the mature response at ubuntu-devel lists, where the discussion opened the way to not installing closed-source drivers by default...
I had my problems with opensuse[*] and suggested them to have an ubuntu-like code of conduct. they showed they need one back than, and they showed they need one once again...
[*] I got called "chicken", "f**k", "sh*t" and so on when I suggested them that they should separate themselves from Novell after the bad business decision of their employer.
2 • Biggest problemw ih OpenSuSE is crippled Mutlimedia (by hobbitland on 2006-11-27 09:16:38 GMT from United Kingdom)
I find the biggest problem with OpenSuSE is the crippled Multimedia. They can avoid shipping multimedia codecs but should not cripple xmms,
xine and mplayer so that even if you get your hands on the codecs it won't work. Usign packman reposy is just too messy.
I like Ubuntu coz you can install multimedia codecs as standard plus
".deb" is better than ".rpm" for dealing with dependencies.
3 • Congratulations Xandros... (by Ian G on 2006-11-27 09:20:24 GMT from Hong Kong)
for getting rid of the activation scheme, I wish you every success with your new release. Keep up the good work!
4 • RE:Biggest problemw ih OpenSuSE is crippled Mutlimedia (by Anonymous on 2006-11-27 09:40:05 GMT from United Kingdom)
openSUSE is not the only distro that cripples multimedia. Fedora Core does the same and thats because the project sponsors are based in America where patents and licensing are problematic. I don't see whats so difficult about adding a repo and installing from third parties. I also don't see how Debian packages are better at handling dependencies than RPM. If you use DPKG you have the same problems as using RPM. If you use APT, then all dependencies are resolved for you, but this is not exclusive to Debian since APT works on RPM distros as well. You also have SMART, urpmi, yum etc which work in more or less the same fashion as APT.
5 • so many *buntus, so little time (by Ben on 2006-11-27 09:44:37 GMT from United States)
It seems like every day somebody is coming out with a new distribution based on Ubuntu. With some of these, the only difference seems to be the default software installed. I think a cool idea would be to have a wizard run when you first log in to a default Ubuntu installation which would allow you to choose between pre-defined "configurations" (essentially shell scripts). These configurations would be very similar to the automatix or easyubuntu scripts, but focused on educational/multimedia/scientific/etc. software. If the configurations were kept on the Ubuntu servers and members of the community were easily able to create their own (with peer review of course) then this could help people who want to create custom Ubuntu distros without the hassle of getting webhosting, creating custom ISOs, etc.
Of course, feel free to shoot my idea down ;)
6 • re: 2 (by h3rman on 2006-11-27 09:46:07 GMT from Europe)
[i]> ".deb" is better than ".rpm" for dealing with dependencies.[/i]
7 • Ubuntu and Suse developers welcome (by Lobster on 2006-11-27 09:50:19 GMT from United Kingdom)
Fed up with suit wrangling? An ex-Ubuntu or Suse developer looking for something faster, smaller and with that magic fun and usability factor?
Being totally shameless I welcome all developers to Puppy Linux.
8 • Looking forward to Etch (by Kim Pedersen on 2006-11-27 10:09:51 GMT from Denmark)
Being a Debian stable user I really look forward to Etch. I have tried it in VmWare and I am impressed. Especially by the ease of using Xen.
I wonder whether they will keep the 4. of December release plan.
9 • re: 7 (by h3rman on 2006-11-27 10:10:17 GMT from Europe)
Yeah, let's all shamelessly invite the developers of all the hundreds of distros to one other of those hundreds of distros. ;)
On the Mark Shuttleworth "invitation"; Ladislav, I think you're being very easy on Mr Shuttleworth. Any individual OpenSuse developer would be perfectly able to think for him/herself and what project (s)he wants to contribute to. No need for Buntu to remind them that there are other projects than OpenSuse.
10 • Ubuntu vs OpenSuSE (by ilz on 2006-11-27 10:32:15 GMT from United Kingdom)
Novell has to know that the linux and open source community is very unhappy with its deal with Microsoft.
The invitation of OpenSuSE developers by Mark Shuttleworth to join Ubuntu is the strongest message to Novell that people are deeply angered.
Well done Mark Shuttleworth. i hope other distro leaders will also registere their anger at Novell-Microsoft deal in a similarly strong fashion.
11 • RE:Biggest problemw ih OpenSuSE is crippled Mutlimedia (by hobbitland on 2006-11-27 10:43:25 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi, I know Fedora cripples multimedia as well. That's why i don't use
them either. The ".deb" package format is better than ".rpm". This is
because each "./deb" file contains the dependencies inside the file.
Dependencies will state which package and what version is needed.
It can also say package a or package b in the dependency. For ".rpm"
all it contains is I need "libabc.so". How are you supposed to know which
".rpm" contains "libabc.so"? If you install a ".deb" without all dependencies
it will tell you which ".deb" you need and their versions range.
As for "packman" and OpenSuSE... large external reposy have problems.
Security is one and compatibility is another. For Ubuntu I can get
everything from Canonical servers except "codecs". This is what SuSE
should do. Ship all multimedia apps without codecs but don't cripple
them. Then its just a matter of getting hold of some codecs from
3rd party source.
12 • deb vs rpm??? (by parkash on 2006-11-27 11:00:58 GMT from Germany)
I think that's just a "taste" matter. For me, neither deb nor rpm are as good as gentoo's portage ;)
13 • Ubuntu vs OpenSuse (by parkash on 2006-11-27 11:16:11 GMT from Germany)
Yes, I would say that Mr. Shuttleworth was being a little too bold with his invitation letter, and if not as damaging as the Novell&M$ deal, pretty much an invasion to the OpenSuse developers' soberanity.
Nevertheless, I think Novell should take seriously the consequences of such Deal, and regardless of how inapropriate Mr. Suttleworth's letter was, this was just one example --not to mention the several comments of the Linux community with regard to boicotting Novell by not using any of their products.
It is my very personal opinion that M$ should not be taken seriously --as it is in a decadence process--, specially in the way Novell did.
14 • Xandros, $99?? (by Mr. Fifi on 2006-11-27 12:22:57 GMT from United States)
15 • #11: you're dead wrong. (RPM vs. DEB) (by Gilboa on 2006-11-27 12:37:23 GMT from Israel)
I'd suggest you do some reading about RPM before posting.
Both DEB and RPM include a list of required dependencies (both build-time and install-time).
More-ever, all -official- Fedora RPMs are now built by the mock system which requires each RPM to include the full list of dependencies. (Up to the gcc version level).
16 • RE: RPM vs. DEB. kdelibs.spec sample. (by Gilboa on 2006-11-27 12:50:09 GMT from Israel)
$ wget http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/rpms/kdelibs/FC-6/kdelibs.spec?rev=1.200&view=markup
$ cat kdelibs* | grep Requires | wc -l
Now go to http://packages.debian.org/unstable/libs/kdelibs4c2a and count the dependencies.
Should be around ~40? 45?
17 • package war.... (by distro_who on 2006-11-27 12:59:09 GMT from United States)
i don't know was is worse, novell/ms deal or the "rpm/portage/deb ..which the better" controversy.
18 • Suse developers welcome (by Lucifer T. Beelzebub. on 2006-11-27 13:02:11 GMT from South Africa)
On behalf of my good friend Steve Balmer at Micro$oft. I would like to extend my warmest welcome to all the new Suse developers. It's too bad you declined that nice man from Canonical's warm invitation. In case you didn't know, that was your last chance at salvation. Your souls are MINE fools!!! Mwah hahahaaa!!!!
19 • Crippled multimedia and yum (by John on 2006-11-27 13:10:02 GMT from Saudi Arabia)
Fedora doesn't "cripple" multimedia. Fedora ships with unencumbered codecs. Non-free codes are easily added through unofficial repositories.
If mp3 is all you want to add, there's always the perfectly legal fluendo option. Fluendo is licensed to the end user, not the distribution.
In Fedora, yum has greatly improved the automatic resolution of dependencies. Yum has made it a joy to install software packages compared to the original rpm tools.
Finally, recent events should drive home the point that distributions
and users should carefully consider the legal implications of the GPL.
I chose Fedora because I would rather be a "pragmatic purist" rather than a "pure pragmatist".
20 • about mEDUXa 1.0 - New Free Software GNU/Linux distribution added (by Angel-Fr@gzill@ on 2006-11-27 13:34:02 GMT from Belgium)
mEDUXa 1.0 - New Free Software GNU/Linux distribution added
Funny, I have been checking the about mEDUXa 1.0 Free Software GNU/Linux distribution Web Sites
It looks quite interesting, but there is NOT links to Download anything... ???
Neither the Distro in ISO image, or the 3 different components, nor the sources. Nothing... !!!
I hope is not the case of several companies using Free/Open Source software while releasing Nothing in return !!!
Anyone has info on this ?
21 • OpenSuSE Developers (by Erik Sorenson on 2006-11-27 13:38:36 GMT from Canada)
Shuttleworth is merely acknowleging that SuSE/opernSuSE is the best distribution out there, and he wishes to lift his blatant (and one-way beneficial) copy of Debian from the depths of the also-rans. For one, I'm pleased that Mark was so gauche as to recognize this truism. OpenSuSE users have known it for a long time.
As for the "opensource community" bashing the Novell/MS agreement, I don't think that this is the case at all. The same 2,500 - 3,000 FOSS purists are the vocal ones doing the posts across the blogshpere. Actual users of openSuSE know the gem they use, know that the FOSS/Perins noise is mostly FUD itself, and really don't care to be embroiled in a childish bun-fight over a minor business issue. Many sane folks out there are saying, "com on, this is hysteria at its worst, let's wait and see what happens before you slah your wrists, eh?"
Nearly three weeks have passed since the announcement. Has the sky fallen yet, Chicken Little, a.k.a. FOSS/Perens? Nope. Not even a hint of it. Go find another henhouse to scare. Maybe Perens would like to start another free/free "server distribution", and provide a profit-oriented "support" dimension, and then just let it die, leaving users and test volunteers in the lurch ... again? I never trust FOSSers that don't understand the opening words of Business 101, the real world.
Perens should move out of his own glass house before he starts throwing rocks at another one.
22 • Ubuntu vs MS-SUSE (by Tomasz on 2006-11-27 13:49:30 GMT from United States)
I used to switch between Ubuntu and Suse before Novell was part of it. When Novell joined I decided that Ubuntu was the winner. Since when did Novell develop something good? I think Suse has great developers and If I was a leader of a company that has the potential to take the next step, I would have done the same thing. Remember, this is linux and opensource, its NOT M$, we need to unite as most of us develop for free and the fun of puting something great out there for everyone else, and not make a quick $. Make your CHOICE------I pick linux and UBUNTU!!!
23 • Ubuntu artwork (by Ariszló on 2006-11-27 14:33:09 GMT from Hungary)
Ladislav wrote: Even some Ubuntu developers were dismayed by the idea, suggesting that this invitation was possibly the Ubuntu leader's dumbest idea since he attempted to pass a desktop wallpaper picturing three naked bodies as work of art.
The wallpaper was OK. Mark just forgot that despite his trip to the space we were still living in the Middle Ages.
24 • Please don't overreact (by pp on 2006-11-27 14:44:41 GMT from United Kingdom)
I'm highly surprised by the judgemental lynching attitude that most writers come up with when commenting on the Novell/MS deal. It is not clear at all how it will shape the future of Linux or Open source.
Surprisingly many _claim_ to know how it will affect the future, but they are lying. It's typical of politicians & wannabe leaders to claim certainty because certainty impressess people who are too lazy to think for themselves.
Just because it's MS, doesn't mean that the worst possible scenario takes place. Secondly, OpenSUSE is and will remain open, so what's the fuss about? Relax, and postpone the judgement. There will always be time to boycott products & companies if there is a _clear_ reason to do so.
Happy OpenSUSE & Kubuntu user
25 • 23 Ubuntu artwork (by ladislav on 2006-11-27 15:01:29 GMT from Taiwan)
I liked the wallpaper too. But I don't think the problem was the fact that we haven't progressed enough. The problem is that in the Cyberspace there are no boundaries so you have to consider the feelings and cultures of a varied group of people many of whom you know nothing about. You wouldn't believe how many complaints I received about an ad that used to appear on the site, showing a female body in underwear. And no, visitors from predominantly Muslim countries were not the only ones who complained - even people with "Western" sounding names residing in the US or Australia expressed strong disapproval over the graphic. Of course, you'll never know that you've overstepped a line until it's too late....
Ah well, we are only humans ;-)
26 • RE: 5 • so many *buntus, so little time (by MET on 2006-11-27 15:08:20 GMT from Canada)
True that! I'd love to an extremely minimal install (oops, that's suppost to be UbuntuLite - www.ubuntulite.org) with scripts to build up from there. I use xfce4 - www.xubuntu.org (but interested in e17- wiki.ubuntu.com/Ebuntu), scientific apps (SciBununtu <- Ahh...scripts), programming (DevUbuntu) with multimedia center (http://debianadmin.com/copper/displayimage.php?pos=-766).
In the interim, thank God for APT-GET!
27 • Novell's agrrement with MS: Much FUD and little fact (by Chris J. Paxton on 2006-11-27 16:40:09 GMT from Canada)
Whenever I hear people wildly react to something like Novell's recent announcement with MS, I get suspicious. People making angry statements predicting the end of OpenSuSE and other such claims sound like the same kind of FUD that MS is famous for. So I did a little more reading and research (I prefer fact to fear any day of the week) and found a couple of more considered opinions. I found a couple of articles on Linux watch that were interesting:
Plus Novell's response:
I suggest that these are worth reading, you may not change your mind but at least you will have listened to more sides of the story.
28 • #21/#24 (by Synergy6 on 2006-11-27 16:41:46 GMT from United Kingdom)
#21/#24, totally agree. Sadly, neither of the problems are new to this arena.
(1. Sticking "community" after all personal concerns to make it sound like you're speaking for a huge group, instead of your own mindless waffle.
2. Jumping to conclusions with no facts or research, simply to further a previously held conviction.)
29 • ubuntu developers should switch to opensuse (by fukodlak on 2006-11-27 16:42:00 GMT from Croatia)
30 • Toy Story copyright? (by A G on 2006-11-27 16:52:44 GMT from France)
"As any seasoned Debian user will tell you, all these names come from an animation film called Toy Story, originally released in 1995."
Did debian take Toy Story producer's permission to use the names?
The names are copyright, I guess.
31 • WAAAR!! (by parkash on 2006-11-27 16:55:04 GMT from Germany)
Have you seen autopackage? http://www.autopackage.org
To everybody else (about Novell & M$):
I agree on the "Don't Panic" attitude that we should take on this... But, I'd like to state my very personal opinion:
"I'm not worried about the future of Linux with the Novell-M$ Deal, what worries me is the future of M$. I, personally, wouldn't like the fact that Linux helped (in anyway) M$. I'm not at all interested in keeping M$ alive for yet another decade. Furthermore, I would pretty much like to see Linux evolve to the great OS that it's becoming without it giving M$ the importance Novell does (and doesn't deserve)".
32 • Network Neutrality: (by johncoom on 2006-11-27 16:57:36 GMT from Australia)
I know this is not directly distro related " but " some of you may be
interested, it will affect us all eventually, especially those in the USA
Network Neutrality: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9jHOn0EW8U
NB: Requires your Web-Browser has Flash 7 plug-in (or above)
For more information and to sign the petition and contact your
Senators, visit Save The Internet: http://savetheinternet.com
33 • Ubuntu-suse (by lmf on 2006-11-27 17:08:32 GMT from United States)
Seems odd to me that suse users defend the deal because it helps novell's bottom line ("get realistic, linux users, profit is what matters and you don't understand business!!! you're naive!!!") then go after the invitation by Shuttleworth.
Shuttleworth was doing what is his own best interest, and according to suse users, that is always and everywhere good for linux.
How does a developer moving from suse to ubuntu divide the linux community? That argument makes no sense. It's all linux. Novell decided to make a deal that pushes the line of legality and allows Ballmer to use novell as an endorsement of Microsoft's IP. Why should anyone else now act on the honor system when dealing with novell?
Shuttleworth was also pointing out resources for suse developers that want to leave, he wasn't merely advertising for developers.
That said, I have removed suse from my systems and will do the same with ubuntu if proprietary crap is installed by default in the new ubuntu. (Debian and Fedora, here I come!)
34 • Novell/Suse linux (by Bill Johnson on 2006-11-27 17:20:40 GMT from United States)
I could care less about so-so Suse linux. If the Novell deal makes them
more profitable and viable , so be it. If it was a mistake, the wheels os
Capitalism will grind them up. This is how it should be.
If Suse dissappeared entirely i wouldn't blink an eye. Conversely
if TEXSTAR got out of the linux trade, it would be catastrophic , a dark
day indeed. Lord don't ever let it happen.
35 • Standing on the shoulders of giants ... (by Troy W. Banther on 2006-11-27 17:23:10 GMT from United States)
Let the slow and lumbering giants from the past rumble and fight before they slay one another.
I make and honest living from this thing called open source.
36 • RPM v DEB (by Web250 on 2006-11-27 17:33:59 GMT from United States)
I've used many distros, including both rpm and deb based ones. And with all my experience, I find that deb and apt-get works 10,000 times better than an rpm based system does.
Just my $.02... btw I use Ubuntu 6.06
37 • No subject (by kevred on 2006-11-27 17:34:12 GMT from New Zealand)
Too much sugar in thier diates. Linux is growing pity some developers are still acting like babies ubuntu this suse that just get on with the system stop moaning.
38 • re 30, and then some (by Tooth-gnasher on 2006-11-27 17:34:14 GMT from Germany)
When Debian started to use code names from Toy Story, it was actually incited by a person (don't remember who) who held prominent positions both in Debian and Pixar.
Novell/MS... sure, lets not jump overboard here, but I think the optimists will be proven naive. Ballmer himself has been unambiguous in saying first "any non-SUSE user of OSS, who infringes on MS' patents, may be sued", and then "Linux infringes on MS' patents". 1+1=? MS _is_ the devil, see?
Eben Moglen has also been clearly saying that this deal will be incompatible with GPLv3. That'll leave SUSE in a tight spot, since FSF will certainly relicence all "their" software under the new GPL. IMHO, SUSE will meet with its demise over this, or transform into something different, which could prove interesting.
And 0.02€ on this "deb is superior to rpm": Isn't this discussion long since irrelevant? I haven't used an rpm-based system in years, but as far as I've understood, stuff like yum has made life with rpm really easy. What makes Debian special (good or bad, depending on what you like) isn't apt in itself. Its got to do with the development cycle, software/design policy, the whole Debian philosophy.
39 • BS Politics (by Tazix on 2006-11-27 17:47:10 GMT from United States)
I love linux. I've installed probably close to 25 distros in the last 2 years, figuring out which ones I like best. I run SLED 10 on one box, Xubuntu (Eft) on another, and Xubuntu (Drake)on a laptop.
That said... I'm really getting sick and tired of all the in-fighting... ranging from Linus vs. GPL 3, to this latest MS / Novell deal.
It's just stupid.
I'm really considering switching to BSD, just to avoid constantly reading the nonsense.
40 • 38 (by AC on 2006-11-27 17:54:35 GMT from United States)
The person you are thinking of is Bruce Perens, second Debian project leader, author of the Open Source Definition, first LSB project leader, founder of Software in the Public Interest, co-founder of Open Source Initiative, and former Pixar employee.
And you are absolutely right about .deb vs. .rpm. If anything, .rpm is a more flexible format and now there are front-ends that compete with APT. It is Debian policy and development that set it apart
41 • 39 (by AC on 2006-11-27 17:58:47 GMT from United States)
Reading political bickering is a matter of the forums you follow, not the OS you use. You could use NetBSD or even FreeDOS, but if you read OSNews, Slashdot, Distrowatch, et al, you'll continue to see the stories that annoy you. Conversely, if you use even the politically-engaged Debian, but choose the mailing lists you follow carefully, you'll encounter these debates seldom if at all.
42 • on novell and ms (by dvdia at 2006-11-27 18:00:18 GMT from United States)
(IMHO) From what I've seen, it looks like Novell got sucked into this Microsoft deal without knowing the real purpose of this deal: to discredit Linux.
Look at the time line:
* Novell and Microsoft shake hands on an exclusive agreement to create better cross-compatibility between their software.
* After the agreement is signed, Microsoft does a 180 and publicly states that the crux of the deal was really Novell admitting Linux violates Microsoft's IP and this was a license agreement.
* Novell is saying 'WTF? Where did this come from? You scammed us!!1!!'
* Microsoft looks like a hero to the DOJ for saying 'We're not evil, see? Novell admits Linux violates our IP and they now license it from us. Here's the contract!'
The agreement was nothing more than the most expensive anti-Linux PR campaign ever conceived. Novell and Ronald W. Hovsepian aren't the bad guys here, they just got scammed (Please, for the sake of the future of Novell, please don't forward Ron any emails that state the Prince of Nigeria needs some cash to escape the country).
This may also give Microsoft legal footing to attempt to go after Red Hat if they really want to. All they have to do is bring up the Novell deal in court to make themselves look like angels.
This is just my $0.02, take with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary...
43 • Take your puppy for a walk... (by Jaguar on 2006-11-27 18:12:16 GMT from United States)
RE 7 Definitely worth checking out!
Fed up with suit wrangling? An ex-Ubuntu or Suse developer looking for something faster, smaller and with that magic fun and usability factor?
Being totally shameless I welcome all developers to Puppy Linux.
44 • Woman and underwear ;) (by Mika Hack on 2006-11-27 18:19:05 GMT from Italy)
if some people get shocked about a woman in underwear.....
i do know why!!!!
And i agree with them!!!
Just take the underwear off!!!
Next time just woman necked...
no underwear at all!
In the mean time....keep on boicotting suse!
45 • Mark Shuttleworth, et al. (by GWJMateo on 2006-11-27 18:23:31 GMT from United States)
I think Mark has a point.
There are 400+ linux projects out there, and the code is free for the taking: if you do not like something that the current project leads are doing, then move to another project of fork.
There is no need for the sniping, infighting, or general bickering, however. I do not see anything wrong with the substance of Mark's message to the openSUSE developers, but the responses as a whole showed the level of unprofessionalism epidemic in the community.
I think it's time to start thinking about what moves Linux as a whole forward, and less about your personal grievances with every little decision.
Squash Ubuntu Bug #1, then pick-nits.
46 • UBUNTU/OPENSUSE (by Frank on 2006-11-27 18:28:33 GMT from United States)
I think we sould stop fighting with each other, maybe it is time to start working together to make linux something that people will desire to have in there computers.
1.- why so many distros that is a big waste of talent remember "dived to konquer".
how many developer work for a distro??
2.-. All distros should have something like "easy ubuntu" so people with no experience can have an usuable linux.
3.- What is the point of having drivers for wifi cards, modems or stuff like that on the internet, how people are going to get themm.....
4.- Mr Shuttleworth wast at least offering an option to the developer os OpenSuse wile we were just blaming them. Novell is the gilty one an OpenSuse developer are just the cowards, that don't know what to do and hope Novell will defend them
47 • Linspire's freelinuxemail.com (by PePa on 2006-11-27 18:45:24 GMT from Canada)
Linspire's freelinuxemail.com seems to be a resell of fastmail.fm, slightly broken (try the About link...).
48 • SuSe (by Fernando Gracia on 2006-11-27 18:55:54 GMT from United States)
I used to have SuSe 10 along with Puppy 2.02 and Vector 5.8 in my machine; however after the Microsoft agreement I delete SuSe and it replaced by Slackware 10.. In the past I switched to linux because I hate the intrusive MS updateing my my machine without any agreement so I started with different linux distros until I got SuSe. but no more if they are following the steps of Ms. Vecor, Puppy and Slack have to much to offer.
49 • Micro$oft (by Ha! on 2006-11-27 19:07:57 GMT from United States)
M$ is just lashing out any way they can. They know they are in trouble and they are trying to rock the boat as much as they can before it sinks!
50 • 42 (by lmf on 2006-11-27 19:14:30 GMT from United States)
Dead on with your warning ;). Novell has to have the stupidest management in the industry. I think it's Vonage with the "people do stupid things" commercials.
Here's one possible commercial: Ron Hovsepian pondering to himself, "Let's see, we pay Microsoft not to sue our users for infringing their IP, we don't reveal the nature of the contract, and we arrogantly refuse to answer questions about the deal for three weeks. To boot, we get an infusion of much needed cash. What could possibly go wrong?"
51 • RE:Xandros 99? (by NK on 2006-11-27 20:53:15 GMT from United States)
Don't forget that xandros comes with codeweavers that retails for around $40 and above. I wish the article mentioned what version of codeweavers is included, my guess is that you can upgrade to the latest version if its not there.
When you consider that you can run the most important windows apps without the problems of windows, this becomes more attractive. Also, the support you will get will be much better than what you will get from microsoft (since when did anybody get support from microsoft anyway?).
But like you, I consider $99 steep, and should really be half as much. But the inclusion of codeweavers prevents that.
52 • Xandros and the well kept secret..... (by Martin at 2006-11-27 20:53:59 GMT from Denmark)
In all the reviews I have seen there is not one that mentions the super cool way of connecting an external, second screen or projector.
The way where the user can choose to put it on the right, left etc. of the original screen. That is so good if you need to do lots of presentations that it easily is worth the money you pay for it.
53 • Woman with underwear (by Douglas on 2006-11-27 21:22:47 GMT from Germany)
This is so dumb to complain about. Just get Firefox and adblock plus. Then turn off the ad. Easy. Fast. Free. How can you visit this site and not now something this basic?
54 • RE: #41 (AC) (by Tazix on 2006-11-28 00:35:41 GMT from United States)
While that may be true, I guess my point is that I would see a lot less bickering if I was following BSD type forums, than what I see in the linux world.
It's really a turn off to see Devs constantly quibbling, regardless of their religious (linux) practicies... whether they be eliteist, purist, or more mainstream.
I'm really referring more to the developers than the vocal fanatics. "They can't agree on the color of shitte" - Braveheart.
55 • Belenix = Solaris != Linux or BSD (by Antoine on 2006-11-28 01:47:10 GMT from Brazil)
Is Belenix a Linux distro or a BSD? So, what is it doing in DistroWatch?
Sometimes I get annoyed...
56 • When GatesSoft and Lindows clashed.... (by Moe on 2006-11-28 01:52:53 GMT from United States)
Think on this for a moment.
Who would have thought if Linux used MS's IP stuff it would have been brought to the fore when Lindows (now Linspire) went head to head with GatesSoft in the courts. Those greedy monopolists would have loved to crush Lindows but they didn't have the goods then so why does the community get all worked up and rattled over BalmSoft's verbal rubbish? We should be thanking the boys at Linspire for paving the way for the Linux community!!!
57 • Who cares?! (by Eric Yeoh on 2006-11-28 02:31:49 GMT from Malaysia)
I'm really unconcerned abt the package and distro wars....in fact I have always thought of it as silly, it's like some 5-year olds arguing who has the better toy.
Please work together. As it is, the FLOSS world seems to be fragmenting. If some likes Gentoo and portage, fine.....Debian/xBuntus with their debs...fine too. Dtito for the KDE vs GNOME issue, give it rest guys.
M$ is already exploiting this incessant bickering by leveraging Novell to its cause. Instead of pointing fingers and make it worse, can't the community work with one another?
58 • RE: 55 Belenix = Solaris != Linux or BSD (by ladislav on 2006-11-28 02:50:04 GMT from Taiwan)
If you had bothered to read the FAQs, you wouldn't have had to waste time asking questions that have been answered many times before.
59 • Debian (by spiritraveller on 2006-11-28 03:34:29 GMT from United States)
It's nice to see Debian benefiting from Ubuntu.
Other distros may change their name, get bought out, start issuing "enterprise editions" with mandatory service contracts, or make sweetheart deals with MicroSatan... but Debian just keeps going and going... without even needing to reboot.
I haven't messed with Debian in a while, but it's nice to know it's there. And it's great to see the GPL in its full glory: when a commercial distro like Ubuntu has to let it's parent-distro benefit from its innovations... the same way that Ubuntu itself benefited from Debian's innovations.
I call for a Worldwide GPL appreciation day, when Free software developers can wear t-shirts that say "KIss me, my code is GPL."
60 • distro wars (by random guy at 2006-11-28 03:48:02 GMT from United States)
look linux is linux, we might as well get along together a little more and work together to produce stuff even faster. i mean why reinvent the wheel?
i could take ubuntu and strip off the included package manager install portage from a snapshot like i would for a normal gentoo compile and in effect have "ubuntu" with portage. all hte linux distros are all the same when you think about it because they all have interchangable parts and work together.
i say stop fighting and start working together more.
(this post has nothing to do with suse, that is a different topic, this is just in response to the normal distro wars)
61 • 2 above (by linux fan on 2006-11-28 03:49:35 GMT from United States)
the comment two above by spiritraveller is a great idea. i so would become a developer just for that shirt.
62 • Distrowatch not paying full attention (by Tiny Elvis on 2006-11-28 04:07:03 GMT from United States)
SymphonyOS.com has been down for several weeks now - why is it still listed?
It's hit that "unmagic" number - it's fallen below 100 hits per day, in fact only 74 HPD in the last 7 days, almost that bad the last 30 days.
It's time to retire this distro - it's not active, there's no placemarkers, the site is just plain down, and without a website no one can see their community.
Ladislav - please take this distro off your list!
By the way - I usually lurk - but this is a great DWW - very good insight on the Novell, MS & Ubuntu debaucles.
63 • RE: 62 Distrowatch not paying full attention (by ladislav on 2006-11-28 04:13:57 GMT from Taiwan)
Why does its continued listing bother your? The developer found himself without a job and in deep financial troubles, which can happen to anybody. Please give him some time - hopefully the project returns once the more important issues in his life are dealt with.
And please try not to lose any more sleep over this :-)
64 • symphony (by linux fan on 2006-11-28 04:32:37 GMT from United States)
it is sad about him. it is such a great idea for a distro, if only he didnt run into troubles. this is why i think that distros shouldnt necessarily depend on an individual person.
65 • Eben Moglen is leading free software down the path to destruction (by M. Edward (Ed) Borasky on 2006-11-28 05:24:25 GMT from United States)
"Eben Moglen has also been clearly saying that this deal will be incompatible with GPLv3. That'll leave SUSE in a tight spot, since FSF will certainly relicence all "their" software under the new GPL. IMHO, SUSE will meet with its demise over this, or transform into something different, which could prove interesting."
The one who will be in a tight spot if the FSF takes legal action against Microsoft will be the FSF. The history of computing is littered with the corpses of people who were "right" but took on someone much bigger than they were and lost. Don't get me wrong; there *are* a few people who have pulled it off, but it's a lot harder than the FSF thinks it is.
66 • Response (by Slackware user on 2006-11-28 05:38:53 GMT from United States)
Reply to #32: The whole net neutrality is the same thing that happened in the US with the phone. Also the issue has a paperclip issue on the fiber network. Phone and Cable companies in the late 1980's promised the government they would build a fiber optic network if they got a tax break and charge more for phone service. Now the phone and cable giants are taking a small lousiana town for trying to build a public fiber network.
67 • deb vs. rpm (by Slackware user on 2006-11-28 05:50:52 GMT from United States)
Isn't deb and rpm just compression with meta-data. It all comes down to just taste. So stop arguing.
All these stupid arguments are annyoing. Can't we all get along. Look at BSD users there is rarely an argument between a opendbsd, freebsd, or netbsd user. It fact many run all three systems
68 • SuSbuntu: The ultimate solution for the Linux problem (by Angel-Fr@gzill@ on 2006-11-28 09:24:52 GMT from Belgium)
Well, I think I have the answer to all this. The ultimate solution for the Linux problem:
- A Fork of Ubuntu made by the Ubuntu and OpenSuSe developpers alltogether; They should invite, also, to join the distro, to all M$ employees that have not got a wage rise lately, because of the expenditures and lack of bigger revenues caused by the delay of Vista (or all the Ms employees that have been fired after being catch using Open Source software at home, or having installed Firefox in their company laptops)
- I propose to call it : SuSbuntu ;)
- I think it should also contain a Wallpaper with Steve Ballmer, Bill Gates, Ron Hovsepian and Mark Shuttleworth naked (à poile, en pelotas)
Alternatively there should be another wallpaper with Eben Moglen, Richard Stallman and Bruce Perens (maybe also Linus Torvalds, and Alan Cox). But thelatter one would be "Too Sexy", and therefore maybe forbidden or dismissed in puritan and religious countries and societies, what would be detrimental to the Linux movement...
69 • No subject (by John on 2006-11-28 09:54:35 GMT from New Zealand)
Yo Erik, stop yer trolling would ya? Ubuntu is no "one-way beneficial" thing, every patch is sent back upstream to Debian. And ever considered that the 3000 FOSS fanatics are the ones who actually do all the work and are the ones who got us here in the first place where freeloaders like you get to just sit back and demand and complain?
P.S. I couldn't quite peg you, you comments veer from being a Debian fanboi and thus a FOSS fanatic, to anti-FOSS fudding, then I read your website, explains everything....
70 • Well, Now seriously. The ultimate solution for the Linux problem (by Angel-Fr@gzill@ on 2006-11-28 10:40:25 GMT from Belgium)
Well, Now seriously. The ultimate solution for the Linux problem
I'm not worried about the future of Linux with the Novell-M$ Deal.
I agree on the "Don't Panic" attitude that everybody should take on this... But, keeping in mind that you can never really trust big corporations. The ultimate (and often almost only aim is "Profit).
Anyway, profit is in the roots ot the nowadays economic and sociopolitical model of society worldwide. And, until this does not evolve into something different and better, in an eventually, future society, aiming to share goods and knowledge, instead of competing for them, this kind of episodies are plain normal.
It is just the survival of the fittest (not the better) fight, in economic terms!
But Linux and Free Software have survived after all, and are growing everyday more and more... That is the very proof that Free software is fit!!!
Linux is here to stay. There is not possible way back; The sources of all are out there, in the CyberSpace.
Now, there is so many developers, that if anything is predated in court by Ms, a replacement solution would be created.
But the most important thing is that: "it doest not matter if Linux will be here to stay or not". The paramount thing is that Free/OpenSource Software is here to stay. Without the Free software model and licence, Linux would not exist, or would not be, anyway, what is it now!!!
Linux is here almost by coincidence. Other Operating Systems can be created with OpenSource Software. And this is the important thing!
If Linux is defeated in courts, the OpenSource ashes will reborn into a new Linux, like a Phoenix.
But even if is not Linux, it will be BSD, or OpenSolaris, or Haiku, or Syllable, or FreeDos, or ReactOS or other existant or to come...
(Ladislav has a big task for the future here! - With so many distros based in so many different Operating Systems, I guess Distrowatch will evolve into a Multinational corporation ;) )
They have lost the war already, and they know it! They are still bigger, but they know they have lost!
They just try to win battles to remain in power in certain places as much as they can, in order to control the flush of profit that feed them!
But to achieve it in the long run, they would have to turn back the clock, or dominate illegally the key political and justice resources worldwide.
And that is what they do/are trying to do, actually. Because they realize that the world evolution trends are going against them.
Whatever are the tricks in the way, Linux and the Free Software are here to stay. This is already a fact.
The Year of Linux has already happened. It can only grow to more and better. And it can only diversify too. But this is good.
The world is not going to quit Windows and use linux all of a sudden, never.
But the line is there, and will be almost impossible to bend: Linux and other Free Software OS will grow more and more until they surpass Windows.
Big software corporations will recycle into OpenSource (as they are doing now) and one day, not too far away, the vast majority of users will be running free software!
Then, it will come the fight for another grail: that of the free culture, and like that on and on...
And, all this, thanks to the peopme that has been writting and using Free software for the past 10 or 15 years. People like you all. And thanks to webSites like this one by Ladislav.
Someday I will finish my book/s about all that... And, of course, I will make you all participate of it, and announce it here! I just hope I will finish it before Ms disappear ;)
71 • Ubuntu Christian Edition (by Question on 2006-11-28 10:58:23 GMT from Poland)
I don't understand some release annoucements - Ubuntu CE: all this talking about applications, improved stability... all they do is add some bible quotation program and change wallpapers. I have to say, that after reading their site - what they change - and than the release announcement - I feel, that it's too much. I could too start, for an example: Ubuntu Neocatechumenal/Sikh/Marx/Zapatero/Hippie Edition, change the wallpapars and add two programs and generally copy paste Ubuntu's release annoucement... and take credit for all the usability. Anyhow, this is just my impression and my humble opinion.
72 • Symphony - distros on & off (by Tiny Elvis on 2006-11-28 16:07:12 GMT from United States)
I honestly think that if a site is not up, or doesn't have a product out - then they should be removed from the general site. Distrowatch is supposed to be generating news about LIVE distros, not about dead distros.
They could always be moved back if they ever come live again. I feel bad for the guy, and one distro shouldn't rely on one guy, I agree.
If they weren't up there, maybe one of the other distros might get a little more exposure and help people looking to switch to open source?
73 • Caixa Mágica (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-11-28 16:08:18 GMT from Italy)
I'd like very much to try this distribution, because it is based on SUSE and because apparently it uses apt4rpm as its main package manager.
I was always a major supporter of apt4rpm, but OpenSUSE and Novell decided to dump it, apparently only for "political" reasons. We all saw the huge package management fiasco in OpenSUSE 10.1.
Unfortunately Caixa Mágica seems to support only Portuguese, and I have no idea if it is possible to restore English support from a SUSE DVD.
Also I don't know on what SUSE version it is based. 10.1 I suppose? (earlier versions wouldn't make much sense)
74 • I wish... (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-11-28 17:15:03 GMT from Italy)
I wish this site allowed you to preview a message before posting. I realize my above post needs quite a bit of editing...
75 • 23 & 25 ubuntu artwork (by josiah on 2006-11-28 19:01:52 GMT from United States)
When Ubuntu started, it seemed that the goal wasn't to be an internationally successful business operating system, and that most of the users were going to be young-ish male linux enthusiasts (nerds). It rapidly became popular enough that people were saying, "I'd love to install this at work, but OMG, my boss would have my hide if my desktop had those breasts showing!" Other rational heads also suggested that there are places in the world where the amount of skin showing in public is very, very little -- and that many of these places are some of the more fruitful emerging markets for our favorite software.
I for one loved the original desktops, and even today one of them enjoys a place in my regular rotation of wallpaper. But then, I'm probably one of the odd few who prefers the brown theme to any of the blue, green, or orange themes that otherwise seem to prevail.
76 • FreeLinuxEmail.com (by Bongo on 2006-11-28 19:38:26 GMT from Germany)
It strikes me as odd that a service called "FreeLinuxEmail" advertises its seamless integration in Outlook Express...
77 • RE:Symphony - distros on & off (by NK on 2006-11-28 19:40:54 GMT from United States)
I don't think that it should be removed, primarily because the guy is struggling, not that the project is inactive. There is a difference.
There are a quite a few distros where they may seem "dormant" because their programmers have other responsibilities and can not work on it full time. And then there are a few that languish for one reason or another. Then there are those few that end up abandoned or where developement has ceased.
Perhaps some rating system would help, but I don't think it should be removed. Other distros have similar problems.
78 • RE: #77 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-11-28 22:17:15 GMT from Italy)
Well said, NK.
I wanted to write something very similar. We hear so often: "there are too many distros". What annoys me are distros which never release a final, or only after years (Ark Linux is a good example). Sometimes finals are worse than development releases...
But what annoys me most are distros where the user/developers are in denial. Don't dare writing in their forums that their distros feel almost dead: at the very least you'll be called a troll.
Another typical symptom of a distro nearing its end is when the main/only interest users/developers seem to have is a beautiful web site.
79 • re: 71 (Ubuntu Christian Edition) (by h3rman on 2006-11-28 23:12:50 GMT from Europe)
Or how about Jewbuntu?
I'm still waiting for that. ;)
Even seriously, it's very handy for religious Jews to have desktop pop-ups at prayer time, the weekly Torah readings, easy desktop search in, for example, Maimonides and the 600+ commandments, daily kosher recipes, and an extensive calendar for all the many festivals; and let's not forget weather reports on the moon (essential for certain blessings).
Jewbuntu could also ship with the full text of the entire Talmudim, Midrashim, Mishneh Torah, Ibn Ezra, and what not, in several languages.
It should also have full Hebrew support (and that's an important point since Ubuntu 6.06 LTS has had some bugs relating to Hebrew input support, i.e. SCIM m17n).
Jewbuntu would reasonably require Beagle, it would make desktop searching in the Talmudic ocean work great. This is something they have yet to implement in Buntu though.
Apart from the somehow too funny-sounding name, that makes it unlikely the above will happen under that name, I think the "Jewish OS" could be based on any distro. A Red Hat fan myself, I'd go for a Fedora or CentOS fork.
An Islamic OS, BTW, might be equally, if not more, welcomed. There was an "Islamic" Coke someday where I live, Mecca Cola if I remember correctly, as an alternative to a-little-too-American Coca Cola, why not an Islamic OS (Mecca Linux?), as an alternative to (American) Windows?
I see a huge market out there. :)
80 • Xandros and the death of open source (by Doug on 2006-11-29 00:48:55 GMT from United States)
Xandros does not appear to have a valid link for downloading a free edition of their software. Like other companies, it wants to profit from the free work of thousands of Linux programmers. I'm sure they feel their product is theirs to sell and not really all that dependant on standard Linux kernels and software. They are wrong. They are only re-inventing the wheel. Distrowatch is inadvertantly helping in the demise of free Linux software by advertising Xandros and others who don't willingly comply with the GPL
81 • RE: #80 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-11-29 01:40:19 GMT from Italy)
Demise of free Linux software?
How many distros do you see in the top 20 that don't offer a free downoad? I don't see a single one.
82 • re 79 (by Anonymous on 2006-11-29 13:07:31 GMT from Germany)
Jewish/Islam Linux. That's not a bad idea, actually. What I also think would be a great distro: Linux for the blind. Use tools from Blinux etc. I don't know if there are any OSs for blind people yet (I can't really see MS or Mac making an OS without the desktop). It would be a great example of why free software, if the first blind OS built on GNU/Linux.
83 • Xandros (by Jesse on 2006-11-29 14:29:58 GMT from Canada)
I went to the Xandros website last night and downloaded the free version. It's under the products link.
84 • RE: 59 • Debian (by TM on 2006-11-29 15:07:56 GMT from Germany)
"It's nice to see Debian benefiting from Ubuntu. [...] I haven't messed with Debian in a while, but it's nice to know it's there. And it's great to see the GPL in its full glory: when a commercial distro like Ubuntu has to let it's parent-distro benefit from its innovations... the same way that Ubuntu itself benefited from Debian's innovations."
Actually, Ubuntu has a policy of not doing any software development of their own (except their proprietary Launchpad project). Ubuntu developers only package what others have developed. Yea, they add some user interface tweaks and theme-artwork but I'd hardly call that innovation.
Ubuntu can help Debian if they package some application that's not yet in Debian's package archives. Or they can forward bug reports and send patches to fix bugs. But "Ubuntu's innovations" -- that's a really nice oxymoron. 8-)
85 • #83 (by ray carter at 2006-11-29 16:06:00 GMT from United States)
I don't see a 'free version' - I see a 30 day trial for download - big difference.
86 • "free versions" (by AC on 2006-11-29 16:36:38 GMT from United States)
Again, people are conflating free as in beer with free and in speech (roughly equivalent to "open source").
the GPL does NOT require that a distributor make free downloads of binaries available. It requires only that the source code be made freely available.
I am no fan of Xandros, but they are in compliance:
87 • Ubuntu innovation (by AC on 2006-11-29 16:51:16 GMT from United States)
I am not fan of Ubuntu either, but it should be noted that many Ubuntu developers are also GNOME and Python developers who get paid for work on these projects because of canonical. And they did have x.org before it hit the Debian archives and regularly have the latest GNOME before Debian does. They also give back bug fixes, but unfortunately not in a readily accessible format. But Debian/Ubuntu cooperation is a two-way street and there are developers on both sides working on it.
88 • Xandros upgraded but no longer video (by ChiJoan on 2006-11-29 17:32:26 GMT from United States)
Just thought I'd save some worries for some others ;-) When I upgraded last night, onboard video was no longer on my Via-C3 motherboard. Luckily, I found an older PCI Nvidia card, but it took my last open PCI slot, what a pity they can't offer both Vesa and the newer video format. I need to show Linux can play sound out of the box, and rescue NTFS hard drives. What really surprised me was adding that NTFS hard drive as a slave and seeing it as a boot-up option. Now if only I can show off the printing of Webpages that show both the bottom and top lines, with luck Firefox 2 will fix this.
Also, what's the trick to making sound work out of the box on Linspire and Mepis. I tested my speakers on Windows, the audio card is recognized in both of the above Distros, next I'll see if the sound card still works on my Windows 98se test bench.
Linux has come a long way, but I still can't push it to Pinball lovers stuck on an old Win95 game.
Thanks Distrowatch for keeping us informed.
89 • only one that's distro defeat the windo$,that's called PARDUS (by MK18 on 2006-11-29 20:12:38 GMT from Turkey)
just enter www.pardus.org.tr and change your Vision
90 • Blag 50003 is out !!!! (by Caraibes on 2006-11-30 11:37:07 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Hi Folks !
Just to inform you about the new release of Blag 50003 :
Possibly the best distro in the DW list, or at least the best re-master of Fedora...
See it, try it...
91 • Kanotix (by Anonymous on 2006-12-01 01:47:14 GMT from United States)
From the latest news on Kanotix.com, it seems like Kanotix is disintegrating. Damn shame.
92 • Sabayon is the best Distro to date I ve tried (by Doug on 2006-12-01 02:05:28 GMT from United States)
I have tried numerous Linux Distro's and that new Sabayon is the best DVD instal I ve tried, The emerege features are rock solid .
It has all features required to play DVD movies instaled . Its pretty big, but works.
You need to try it ,be sure to review the tips section about emerge this fixes all problems . Also realize that the instal is complete so don't try to download every thing till you check , if its has problems.
My first instal had everything I needed and more.
It runs like BSD, it updates like BSD, It has many of the features of Gentoo and loads from DVD without any extra effort.
Yea it ROcks Doug
here's a-link I bought the latest version it twice as fast as the 3.1, they added better vidieo drivers too. Best 1.98 download I ever made.
93 • RE: 87 (by TM on 2006-12-01 02:19:08 GMT from Germany)
Ubuntu developer Scott James Remnant writes:
"We have a policy of not doing our own software development, but only packaging what others have developed."
From this statement I get the impression that the people employed by Canonical are not actually paid to develop GNOME or Python. They can do that on their own time but it kind of makes sense that Canonical doesn't pay them to do such stuff. Canonical has employed several top Debian developers but they cannot contribute to Debian development while they're working for Canonical -- they might do that on their own time if they want to, though.
When you employ developers, you want to see some results for the money you pay. Canonical wants to see that their employees package applications like GNOME and Python for Ubuntu and they want to see that they fix problems in Ubuntu's GNOME and Python packages. But Canonical doesn't pay these developers for developing new features in GNOME and Python outside Ubuntu.
It doesn't make much sense to pay people if you cannot verify the results of their work. Some employees may say that they're working very hard developing GNOME or Python but it's hard for the employer to see if that really is the case. If they're packaging things for Ubuntu and fixing problems with Ubuntu packages, that's much easier to verify. The employer needs to know what you get for the money you pay. I think that this could be one of the reasons why Ubuntu has the policy of not doing their own software development -- this way it's just easier to control that the employees are actually doing the job they get paid for.
Please notice that I'm not blaming Ubuntu. Most distros concentrate on improving their own distribution, and that's the primary job of their developers. And some commercially successful distros, like Red Hat and SUSE, have some extra money and they pay some of their employees to develop upstream software. But this is not common. And then there are many volunteer developers who develop both the upstream software and some distribution on their own free time without getting paid for any of this work at all.
But maybe Scott James Remnant is wrong and you are right, maybe Canonical pays the GNOME and Python developers it has employed to develop the upstream GNOME and Python. I don't really know, I'm just speculating.
As for the help that Debian has got from Ubuntu -- yes, I think that Ubuntu helped Debian to get up to speed right after the problems with getting the Sarge release out had left Debian in a poor state. But Debian recovered from that amazingly quickly, and since then there really hasn't been much that Ubuntu could give to Debian.
Please don't overestimate the work done by the Ubuntu devs, and also don't underestimate the work done by the Debian devs. Ubuntu is still based on Debian and Debian continues to be Ubuntu's upstream, not the other way around.
94 • 93 (by AC on 2006-12-01 05:48:09 GMT from United States)
Your points are well-taken and I do not know to what extent, if at all, those Python and GNOME developers work on those projects on Canonical's dime.
And I certainly would not wish my remark about a two-way street to imply that Debian and Ubuntu contribute equally to the relationship. I only meant that cooperation on both sides is necessary to maximize the benefit for both and that some developers have been more cooperative than others - on both sides.
(For the record, I support Debian and don't use Ubuntu or trust Canonical. But I was trying to be even-handed about things.)
95 • "EASY FEDORA" (by Frank on 2006-12-01 12:15:52 GMT from United States)
To the developers of Fedora:
Why don't you create an easy ferdora like (easy ubuntu)or a feora mint (linux mint) for people new to linux. please do not get me wrong I love Fedora but to make it usable is a lot of work and I would never recomed to a friend because I would slave myself to his dektop.
people NEED a dirty Fedora as you would call it. they will call it a usable OS.
thank you so very much for your hard work!!
96 • RE: # 91 Kanotix (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-12-01 16:41:54 GMT from Italy)
Well, for sure Kanotix has been forked:
You'll find that most developers, except of course for Kano, have moved there.
However, Kanotix is not disintegrating. The only difference is that it will not be based on Sid any longer. Kano is considering either Debian Etch or Ubuntu.
Many, if not most users will stay with him.
The loss of those co-developers might prove more of a blessing in the long run (IMO). The Kanotix forum might become a better place, inhabited by mature, responsible users.
97 • #84, #93 (by spiritraveller on 2006-12-01 20:16:40 GMT from United States)
All I know is that ever since Ubuntu came out, Debian has gotten a lot better in the user-friendly department. So much so that there isn't much reason to use Ubuntu in my mind.
But to say "We have a policy of not doing our own software development, but only packaging what others have developed." is also contradictory.
Packaging other items is software development when it involves tweaking things, making them more usable, and setting them up right. It may not be programming per se, but it is development and it is innovation.
The value of the GPL is that a distributed group of people can pool their abilities and create something great. Their abilities may include graphic artistry and design, writing documentation, packaging, and of course programming. It takes all of those things to make good software.
Debian has always shined in the programming/hacking/bugfixing department. But it also shines in the packaging area... and it has benefitted from Ubuntu's tweaks.
98 • 96 kanotix (by AC on 2006-12-01 22:18:16 GMT from United States)
"However, Kanotix is not disintegrating. The only difference is that it will not be based on Sid any longer. Kano is considering either Debian Etch or Ubuntu.
Many, if not most users will stay with him."
I thought the biggest draw of Kanotix to enthusiasts was that it provided a polished shortcut to a fully compatible Sid system. I can't see much advantage to another Ubuntu and with the release of Etch not too far off (knock on wood), where's the point there? Or did you mean testing?
99 • re:94 : Easy Fedora = Blag ! (by Caraibes on 2006-12-01 22:42:22 GMT from Dominican Republic)
If you enjoy the Fedora distro, but want something that just work out of the box, with Free Software only, you are looking for Blag.
See it here :
100 • RE: # 98 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-12-01 23:08:17 GMT from Italy)
I *do* mean Etch, just because that is what Kano wrote.
101 • More about #98 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-12-01 23:24:52 GMT from Italy)
And besides I don't understand why so many people are now saying that the main point of Kanotix was to be Sid based.
Not many months ago you could read on the Kanotix front page that you could track testing if you wanted. Just a matter of changing your /etc/apt/preferences.
It seems to me that some "Sid Fundamentalist" had taken over Kanotix and made the forum unpleasant for anybody with different ideas.
102 • 101 Kanotix (by AC on 2006-12-02 01:33:52 GMT from United States)
Given that the description of Kanotix of its Distrowatch page and most of their release announcements mention being based on Debian sid, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to have considered that a major part of the draw. It certainly is what most distinguished Kanotix from Knoppix.
103 • Sabayon is very good (by Fotograf on 2006-12-02 02:29:30 GMT from Canada)
Tnx to Doug email@example.com reminding me to download the new
3.2 Sabayon - I had a RR4 before and was very happy!
104 • RE # 99 BLAG (by Frank on 2006-12-02 03:17:13 GMT from United States)
sounds great But NO madwifi or ndiswrap? ferdora is so cripple in the WI-FI 802.10 area, any one can download codecs, player, Decripters or Drivers, but what you do if yo do not have acces to the internet???
105 • Re#104 Blag (by Caraibes on 2006-12-02 11:39:33 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Well, Frank, I must admit that I only use Blag on my desktops.
When it comes to laptops, with the wireless issue, I use Xubuntu Dapper (light & stable), because it supports my wireless card (RTL8180) out of the box...
So, indeed, this is a little nuance as using wireless, I recommend a *buntu based distro.
Blag is "el número uno" for the desktop otherwise !!!
106 • RE # 101 (by fish finger on 2006-12-02 17:35:46 GMT from Finland)
"Not many months ago you could read on the Kanotix front page that you could track testing if you wanted. Just a matter of changing your /etc/apt/preferences.
In Sid you get the latest software and fastest bug-fixes but you also get more bugs and breakages. I've always thought that using Sid is like dancing on the edges of knives. A safer bet for most users would be enabling both testing and unstable in /etc/apt/sources.list and then pinning testing as the default distribution to track in /etc/apt/apt.conf and /etc/apt/preferences.
So I think that this latter option would make a sane default configuration for most desktop users and it would probably save Kano from many complaints of angry newbies who find Sid too unstable.
Kubuntu would be another good option but I'm not sure what Kanotix could add to Kubuntu and Mepis. Debian (testing/unstable) has some advantages over *buntu (e.g. daily updated software and better support for all available packages) that Kanotix users may appreciate.
Debian Sid is for those users who like to live dangerously. : )
107 • RE: # 106 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-12-02 19:42:08 GMT from Italy)
Good post, I agree overall.
"Debian Sid is for those users who like to live dangerously. : )"
Exactly. Those Sid fanatics who leaved Kanotix and created sidux are just looking for a challenge. And part of a challenge *must* be that things can go wrong, else where is the excitement?
Sid fundamentalism has nothing to do with a reliable OS. After all testing is only a couple of weeks behind Sid, but a lot more usable.
108 • Ubuntu Multimedia Center (by Zach Thibeau on 2006-12-02 20:47:28 GMT from Canada)
Ubuntu Multimedia Center is not dead yet. RC 1.1 is going to be released after christmas and the new site is http://ubuntummc.com
109 • OT: dreadful grammar mistakes (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-12-02 21:23:43 GMT from Italy)
I wish it were possible to become a registered user so that one could edit his/her own mistakes.
"Leaved"? I am feeling terribly ashamed.
110 • 109 (by AC on 2006-12-02 23:10:52 GMT from United States)
Il vostro inglese lontano eccede il mio italiano. Anche con gli errori
111 • RE: # 110 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-12-03 01:23:23 GMT from Italy)
112 • Re: dreadful grammar mistakes (by Ariszló on 2006-12-04 09:03:26 GMT from Hungary)
Anonymous Penguin wrote: "Leaved"? I am feeling terribly ashamed.
Don't worry. You are not alone:
113 • Re: Ubuntu Multimedia Center (by Ariszló on 2006-12-04 09:33:09 GMT from Hungary)
What is the difference between Ubuntu Multimedia Center and Linux Mint?
114 • Stallman absolves Novell (by Ariszló on 2006-12-04 13:05:56 GMT from Hungary)
115 • sidux (by Chris Hildebrandt on 2006-12-04 14:37:28 GMT from Austria)
sidux is in no way a fork of Kanotix, but an 100% fresh distro based on Debian Sid. I understands itself as a base for people who want or need to use pure Debian Sid. Everybody using Debian should be very happy about it, because only if there are people actually using the Sid-packages bugs will be tracked and fixed.
After all that's the way how all Debian can become even better and more stable & secure. The automated flow of packages though Sid without anybody actually working with them while they reside there would make Sid absolutely useless.
Everybody who does not share this dedication to Debian's bleeding edge is strongly advised to use other distributions.
116 • RE: # 112 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-12-04 15:53:08 GMT from Italy)
Thanks for that :) Very nice.
117 • Kanotix (by Nelson Lobo on 2006-12-04 16:32:25 GMT from India)
I just heard about the 'not so good' developments in the Kanotix camp. I just hope that Kanotix doesn't die out. Hoping to see a new release of Kanotix by Christmas or at least New Year2007. To the Kanotix guys (developers), I have this to say -- ' I love your distro. It is the best. Keep up the good work.Iam just waiting to have your next release downloaded'
118 • Where's my weekly fix? (by Anonymous on 2006-12-04 21:34:22 GMT from United States)
It's Monday, and I still get *last week's* weekly. :-(
Seriously, I hope every thing's okay with Ladislav.
119 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-12-04 23:40:02 GMT from France)
No DWW ?
Ladislav I hope you are ok ? Give us sign of life, please , I'm getting nervous.
120 • DWW (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-12-05 00:28:50 GMT from Italy)
On the front page:
Note: This week's DistroWatch Weekly will be published on Tuesday, 5 December 2006.
Number of Comments: 120
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
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