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1 • Zenwalk's compatibility with Slackware (by Ariszló on 2006-11-20 09:47:58 GMT from Hungary) |
Slackware installs KDE into /opt/kde and Zenwalk installs it into /usr.
2 • Third-party repos (by MatthewV on 2006-11-20 10:08:30 GMT from Australia)
Often these repositories added are for software which may still be in beta, meaning it will not be included in the official repositories until release, or software which will not be included in the official repositories due to legal reasons. I never really add third party repos, except on one occasion when I wanted the latest wine - generally I upgrade to the latest prerelease once I get tired of the same old software ;)
3 • Penguin reliability (by Lobster on 2006-11-20 10:30:11 GMT from United Kingdom)
I tried Mint Linux and it was so accommodating on the install. Recognizing an install of Xubuntu and XP and creating a new partition. Magic stuff. I used it a while and twice Firefox just crashed. No idea why. Am I gonna chase it up? Nope. Gonna use Puppy 2.12 - that does something I love. It works.
Desktop Linux is now fast. It is very easy. Reliability will now be my key stone. "Just Works" is where we are going. Congratulations to all penguins.
4 • 64bit distros disappointments (by pafenu on 2006-11-20 11:33:56 GMT from Italy)
I just switched from my very old slotA platform with athlon 900 running mandriva 2006 to a newer 939 with athlon 3200+ 64. I first tried to install the 64 bit version of mandriva 2007. All went well, except that video resolution worked only in 1024x768. A problem with the nVidia geforce 6100 chipset that could have been solved by installing the proprietary nvidia drivers, if the drak confi utils didn't begin to crash several times in a row. Better try some other option. I switched to ubuntu-desktop 6.10 amd64. After some install problems (I had to run the install util more than once because it did unpredictably stop at some point of the "copy [packages] to disk") I had a working new os.
The main problem is that firefox 64bit is almost unusable because of the 32bit plugins (flashplayer+java) problem and I had to manually install a 32bit version of firefox, which, to my surprise, is faster than the 64bit default.
I have the feeling that 64bit systems are still not very optimized, and less reliable than older 32bit sys.
What do yuo think about?
5 • No subject (by Wiseoldowl on 2006-11-20 11:34:34 GMT from United Kingdom)
Yes, indeed. Few distros can match the speed and outa-da-box operability of the Pup. Too many of the others just propagate old shortcomings and add little more than their own ego trip to the visual proceedings. Bit like you-know-who's DOS/'doze - nothing original in it this last couple of decades that can't be found elsewhere. Puppy is mould-breaking in every respect. Virtually everything desired can be added by the user in Puppy with a couple of clicks. I'd be worried about employment and property prices if I lived in Redmond!
6 • Should you go binary or not (by ssam on 2006-11-20 11:39:25 GMT from United Kingdom)
the best solution is to create good free drivers.
one way to help with this is pledge some money to the open source nouveau project, a driver for nvidia graphcis cards.
7 • Printer friendly (by Chris Paxton on 2006-11-20 11:54:35 GMT from Canada)
Distrowatch weekly is ritual for me, I can't start my week without it. Whether I am at work or home, i always print it out and read it (I am not a huge fan of reading long-text on screen) and this brings me to my point. Ladislav, have you ever considered creating a 'printer friendly' version of dww? I seem to have difficulties, no matter which platform (Linux or MS) or which browser I print from, with pagination and page composition. The banners at the side of the page seem to trip up the browsers when they render for printing. A printer-friendly version with either just the content or with the ads on the top and/or bottom (I realize you have to pay your bills) would print better.
Thanks for providing a great publication.
8 • 1 Zenwalk (by AC on 2006-11-20 11:57:18 GMT from United States)
I applaud Zenwalk for choosing standards' compliance over Slackware tradition! ;-)
9 • 64 bit Linux (by hackmeister on 2006-11-20 12:00:17 GMT from United States)
Kubuntu on my AMD64 system works great. Minimal issues with lots of packages available. The only negative is that I have to run 32 bit versions of the following apps:
firefox (no flash for AMD64)
and a couple of others
Overall I'm very happy with it.
10 • New additions and waiting list (by istoyanov on 2006-11-20 12:04:49 GMT from Bulgaria)
I am really puzzled why Ulteo has been added to the database *without* any entry (even the release date says "??"), while the three other distros that are "only" on the waiting list are quite finctional, or at least downloadable..!?
11 • RE: 7 Printer friendly (by ladislav on 2006-11-20 12:05:58 GMT from Taiwan)
It's not a question of ads, but rather lack of time. If anybody wants to help, please contact me.
12 • RE: 10 New additions and waiting list (by ladislav on 2006-11-20 12:11:13 GMT from Taiwan)
Simple. Ulteo has been queried by readers very often in recent months. It is also created by a well-known Linux personality with a proven track record. Just check out Utleo's forums - they are already very busy even though the project hasn't released anything for download.
13 • RE: 12 New additions and waiting list (by istoyanov on 2006-11-20 12:26:15 GMT from Bulgaria)
Thanks for the clarification, Ladislav!
I still don't see a reason of having an virtually empty entry in a database, and I thought I have missed the release of the most enigmatic distro nowadays. An interested user won't find anything there as well.
14 • puppy (by jon on 2006-11-20 12:41:20 GMT from United Kingdom)
Puppy keeps getting better and better but the nessecery ram has increased to make it practically unusable on a 128mb machine. I'm left with just 7mb in the latest version, an increase of 4mb since 2.11.
Still, all ll I can do is run dillo. Anything more and it just freezes up.
X and the config tools work better out of the box than other live CDs but to be able to use firefox or listen to audio I have to boot DSL.
15 • Free vs. Binary (by parkash on 2006-11-20 13:11:33 GMT from Germany)
Ok, I feel a little ashamed... So many years using linux and I never really stopped to think about this polemic question. Thanks all of you for bringing that out... :) Hopefully we'll see Nvidia and Ati open software drivers soon :s As well as wireless firmware :s
'Cause at least my display won't work fine with "nv" drivers and my stupid wireless card won't work correctly if not with ndiswrapper... :(:(:(
And... Speaking of closed-source software... Are there alternatives to Flash? and: Oh, god, I hate not being able to watch dvd's on my laptop!
16 • Ubuntu Repos (by Joeb on 2006-11-20 13:20:37 GMT from United States)
I believe that the repo source list you are referring to was generated by the source-o-matic script from Ubuntu's website and then had manual additions added to pick up proprietary sources and the latest development trees of various other sources. So while, it is quite long, it doesn't seem that unusual, that if you check every box in source-o-matic you'd get such a beast of source list.
My source list has twelve entries, ten of which are official Ubuntu repos, two of which I have added.
17 • Help with Distrowatch.com (by Marco on 2006-11-20 13:34:41 GMT from United Kingdom)
I would be more than happy to help you. Just let me know...
18 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-11-20 13:51:46 GMT from Israel)
Ulteo?! on the distrowatch list?! ]
is it a distro?! (I mean the actual non-available product and not the sexy webpages content of the project).
looks like you've added a non existing distro to your list
19 • RE: standards' compliance over Slackware tradition! (by Béranger on 2006-11-20 13:53:17 GMT from Romania)
In which way is "/opt/kde" a non-standard path?!
Linux FHS 2.3 says that "/opt is reserved for the installation of add-on application software packages". Should you feel that KDE is an "add-on" (even "bloatware"), it belongs there. There are plenty of small WMs, hence KDE (and GNOME) are highly "optional".
20 • No subject (by Олександр Ткаченко on 2006-11-20 13:58:44 GMT from Ukraine)
ZenWalk тема надо купить и поставить давно уже хочу попробывать этот дистрибутив
21 • Re 15 (by Reiver on 2006-11-20 13:58:45 GMT from United Kingdom)
To reiterate the point I made last week, AFAIK ATI and Nvidia can't open up at the moment as this would breach the licensing aggreements they have between themselves and the hardware manufacturers, these agreements are the only way ATI and Nvidia can fund their business.
22 • Ubuntu repos (by ivan tocnhev on 2006-11-20 13:58:56 GMT from Bulgaria)
I use Kubuntu and use only the original repos that come with it. Just make them all active. It gives me all the software i need.
One "problem" that i see is the lag behind, when it comes to updating the sotfware in their repos. Just for example i can't get the latest update for apache 1.3.x which is the apache 1.3.37. Some other software updates tend to lag too.
May be this is because of their Debian connection but anyway it is pity.
23 • Nvidia & Ati (by parkash on 2006-11-20 14:05:10 GMT from Germany)
I'm just interested Reiver... Could you explain a little bit more?
24 • 19 /opt/kde (by AC on 2006-11-20 14:20:30 GMT from United States)
To me "add-on" is to be contrasted with "part of the distribution", rather than with, e.g. "essential to the functioning of the system". If you chose the later reading, why is KDE singled out? A lot of packages are non-essential. Some people (horror!) don't consider GNU Emacs essential - and bloated - so why not throw that in /opt? It's arbitrary.
In support of my reading, I note this: "The minor restrictions on distributions using /opt are necessary because conflicts are possible between distribution-installed and locally-installed software, especially in the case of fixed pathnames found in some binary software."
It's also a PITA for those of us who believe the / partition ought to be small. We're forced to budget a separate partition for /opt as well as /usr - or wait until we set up a symlink at /usr/local/opt before we install KDE, et al.
Admittedly, FHS is ambiguous and an argument that /opt/kde isn't non-compliant could be made: "Distributions may install software in /opt, but must not modify or delete software installed by the local system administrator without the assent of the local system administrator."
This may not be a problem for Slackware, given its limited "official" package management, but I suspect Zenwalk's package management called for respecting /opt in the manner I've described.
25 • /opt/kde (by AC on 2006-11-20 14:22:36 GMT from United States)
A final note. I find Pat's insistence on this peculiar, given Slackware's emphasis on being (BSD) Unix-like. the BSDs don't use /opt that way either.
26 • /opt/kde is more geek-friendly (by Ariszló on 2006-11-20 14:45:22 GMT from Hungary)
If all KDE file are in /opt/kde then both /usr/bin and /opt/kde/bin will be less crowded and easier to view.
27 • Arch's filesystem hierarchy (by Ariszló on 2006-11-20 14:49:36 GMT from Hungary)
Even more geek-friendly than Slackware's: /opt contains "large self-contained packages such as KDE, Mozilla, etc."
28 • Slackware pckgs in Zenwalk (by David at 2006-11-20 14:53:23 GMT from United States)
I use Zenwalk 3 (updated with current) and I have used several Slackware packages in my Zenwalk install mainly because Zenwalk is a little slow on the addition of some mainstream software. In my case, Amarok is a glaring omission to their packages list. To get around this, I have the kde libs and amarok packages installed from the Slackware repo. The only problem I run into while doing this is that netpkg will try and upgrade those Slackware packages if I let it. I usually have to read through the upgrade list and individually install upgraded packages. This is not a bad idea anyway.
29 • 27 Arch (by AC on 2006-11-20 15:20:40 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the info. I've never gotten around to trying Arch, but if they apply it consistently, that policy at least makes sense.
I don't really get the "less crowded" argument. More than 10 or 20 items is going to be difficult to grasp at a glance in any case. But that's one of the reasons we have things like grep, whereis, whatis, locate, and package management systems.
30 • How many third-party Ubuntu repositories do you have in your sources.list file? (by Ubu on 2006-11-20 15:31:16 GMT from United States)
Two. PLF and Automatix. I have not experienced any problems after installing software from third-party repositories. I usually blindly install whatever gets suggested in some forum post and hope for the best, and it usually works out well.
31 • *buntu (by ray carter at 2006-11-20 15:51:09 GMT from United States)
OK, so with the addition of FLUXbuntu to Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, EDubuntu and CEubuntu, there are now six *buntus of which I am aware. So does this mean that every time they release a new version we have to wade through six announcements? Can't we PLEASE bring some sanity to this? I'd appreciate it in the future if you'd consider ONE announcement for *buntu. Keep separate hit page counters if you wish, but PLEASE - just one announcement. These are not really different distributions - they are basically the same distro with different faces - variants, if you please.
32 • Stuff (by Scott Wilson on 2006-11-20 15:56:05 GMT from United States)
I tried Mint, the firefox crash, every time I launched it is puzzling. I like the blue theme compared to the brown but I'm Sticking with Ubuntu and wait for Ubuntu 7.05. Ubuntu Multi media, well we will see.
I only use the Ubuntu repositiores no third party.
Debian, delayed seems to be on their standard release schedule (hey at least it works!) I really like Debian, but I prefer the gloss of Ubuntu.
Ulteo looks intresting, I read an article in Linux Format, I wonder if it will be as buggy as Mandivia(Mandrake)?
Fedora 300,000 users? well subtract one, Me. I can not understand why Fedora wont "fix" the wireless card issues. Everyone else supports my Intel card "out of the box" then may be I use Fedora. I don't have time to fiddle, but then there is the multimedia issues as well.
The counters on DW, well I think they don't really show the whole truth, I after use DW then hit the counter to find out about the distro (including Ubuntu) read the latest review or check out the third party support forums
33 • I have to vent (by bill johnson on 2006-11-20 16:34:31 GMT from United States)
I think there is absolutely no reason why every linux distro can not
have an installation procedure like PCLinuxOS or Mepis which are so
easy even a person just coming over from Windows can EASILY install
either of them.
The fact that there are many distros,some very well established,that
still have antiquated,cryptic,almost unfathomable installations tells me
that these guys are either pompous geek A-holes or they are too
LAZY to copy what TEXSTAR does.
No wonder linux is stuck at 4% on the desktop.
34 • #23 NDA (by ANONYMOUS on 2006-11-20 16:40:30 GMT from United States)
It's what's called a non-disclosure agreement.
For more information, read here.
Not sure about the "only way they can fund their business" part. What it does do though is possibly lock in exclusive use of a technology which might give a competetive edge.
35 • 33 installers (by AC on 2006-11-20 17:09:07 GMT from United States)
Debian-installer is portable, modular, extensible, and flexible, with many features the installers you mention lack. Great that there are distributions that have easy for newbie installers, but there's no need for every distribution to use them nor any reason to insult the developers who choose not too.
36 • #33 - installs and desktop market share (by spiritraveller on 2006-11-20 17:21:00 GMT from United States)
No wonder linux is stuck at 4% on the desktop.
Linux is on 4% of desktop systems? Wow! I had no idea it was doing that well.
I'm going to go pop open a bottle of champagne and call my broker to pick up some Red Hat stock.
Honestly, 4% is pretty impressive in my book, especially considering that it doesn't come pre-installed on any major computer-sellers' machines.
As for the installers, having different methods is the spice of life with Free open source software. And some people really do prefer the spartan way of doing things.
Vive la difference! or something like that.
37 • So Many New Distros! (by spiritraveller on 2006-11-20 17:28:10 GMT from United States)
And so many lightweight ones too. This is the one area that keeps my interest in Linux. I have a desktop machine that is about 7 years old, and I use it for all manner of things. 7 years isn't all that old in my book.
But Windows and all the other proprietary software companies seem to think you should buy a new one every 12 months.
Even Gnome and KDE get bogged down too easily. But neither of them are that great in terms of features. You can get all the same features out of fluxbox, IceWM or XFCE.
So it's really nice to see distros like Puppy Linux, Zenwalk and Fluxbuntu putting out new releases. It shows I'm not alone in wanting more efficient computing, and that's a beautiful thing.
38 • *buntu (by Anonymous on 2006-11-20 17:30:48 GMT from United States)
"Can't we PLEASE bring some sanity to this?"
I would assume many people are with you on this one. There are already too many *buntu's. One announcement with six or more sublinks to each individual project will be fine. The number of *buntus is redundant. There will eventually be more *buntu's with *buntu pure, *buntu plus, etc. Where will you draw the line?
Something definitely has to be done with this.
39 • clarification of #37 (by spiritraveller on 2006-11-20 17:30:52 GMT from United States)
Didn't mean to dis Gnome or KDE. They are great projects. I just think the same features can be had in a lightweight window manager, and with all these new lightweight distros, you don't have to tinker to get those features.
40 • Steve steve............................... (by mik@ H@ck on 2006-11-20 17:58:33 GMT from Italy)
what a rat world......................
41 • RE #31 #38 (by MiniMe on 2006-11-20 18:09:55 GMT from Germany)
Yes, yes and yes again!
42 • Re kde and /opt (by kilgoretrout on 2006-11-20 18:31:19 GMT from United States)
It's been so long since I've done this but IIRC if you compiled kde from source, the default installation location was /opt. This was back in the kde 2.x days. That's probably where slack gets it since slackware has generally installed a pretty vanilla kde. So I guess you can just as well argue that /opt is the standard installation location as defined by the kde devs even though few distros install kde there now.
43 • *33 (by Art Levine at 2006-11-20 18:31:53 GMT from United States)
Bill Johnson and I are definetely in agreement.
I am not much at all of a code-warrior, nor the geekiest of folks by any means.
I have tried however, 27 distros, so far anyway, and I am getting a few more to try just because I like to.
So far, on my machine at least, nothing beats Mepis for ease and simplicity and hardware recognition. It is the "just works" thing for non geeks and IMHO, if MS users were to install Mepis, they would never even attempt to finish an XP install, that's "install", not restore. Unfortunately, for me anyway, the latest up-date is not a happy one and I am eagerly awaiting the next up-date.
I found the Vector installation to be quite nice too, but I know a few folks who would disagree with that. Different strokes fer different folks is such a truism...
But it is after all about more than mere installation that people look and lust for. I have given Knoppix discs to several folks though who absolutely love it, and after showing them how to set themselves up with a persistant image for all their "stuff", I doubt you could get them to switch.
I am in agreement with the comments of others though that see/want/expect a variety of installation protocols for what suits them and other like mindeds best.
Maybe a little box that asks whether one prefers the easiest installation possible, and/or a list of possibilties/metgods to pick and choose from?
What I though would dearly love to see, is an OS that is something that installs, acts and functions just like my beloved MacOS7.5 with BeHeirarcic. Hmmmm, I must be older than I think I am.....
44 • Fluxbuntu is a really good project ! (by Caraibes on 2006-11-20 18:55:28 GMT from Dominican Republic)
Just to comment on light distros for older hardware : I think it is a wonderfull initiative, I am a big fan of Puppy, I have Xubuntu on my laptop, and I am closely following the developement of Fluxbuntu, which is a very interesting project. The dev is a great guy, and I would not be surprised to witness a great future to that distro... Ok, it is *buntu based, but this is precisely the point, it makes it very strong.
So I got Blag on my desktops, but I applaud 100% Fluxbuntu (and Puppy as usual)...
Xubuntu has already enough recongnition so that I don't have to write about it...
45 • PS3 Linux (by cheetahman on 2006-11-20 19:12:26 GMT from United States)
To bad the Linux Distros on the PS3 weren't told about and is the cell processor the same as the powerpc.
46 • 31 *buntu (by ladislav on 2006-11-20 19:23:33 GMT from Taiwan)
Sorry, no can do. If I do what you suggest then I'll get many complaints from the fans of Kubuntu and Xubuntu for not giving their projects equal exposure. Besides, there will only be four announcements - one for Ubuntu and one for each of their three official subprojects (Kubuntu, Xubuntu and Edubuntu). The rest are independent project so their releases are not coordinated with the main Ubuntu release.
Besides, this "insanity" only occurs twice in a year. If you can't stand it, you know exactly when it takes place so you can easily stay offline on those days.
47 • program that tells me about "non-free-hardware" on my pc? (by hans on 2006-11-20 20:11:55 GMT from Austria)
why isn't (or is?) there a live-cd or program on a live-cd, which can tell me, what hardware is on my computer for which there is no free-driver actually available?
that would be very helpful when buying a new computer! :-)
48 • M$ & Suse (by parkash on 2006-11-20 20:19:26 GMT from Germany)
Patent infringement???!!! I was just waiting for this to happen to go nuts!!!
If anyone didn't read the post before:
49 • re :47 (free live-cd) (by Caraibes on 2006-11-20 20:37:47 GMT from Dominican Republic)
If you boot any PC with the gNewSense live-cd, it is the "real-life" test for your hardware : if everything works out of the box, then your hardware has 100% free drivers ! If (like my laptop) your wireless card is ignored, then you know you have a need for non-free drivers, and my choice was to run Xubuntu, which solved that problem...
50 • Linux Counts (by Freedom Sympathizer on 2006-11-20 20:39:05 GMT from United States)
Well, if everyone made a conscience effort to visit http://counter.li.org/ and register their machines, and keep their info up to date, then we would have a more accurate figure.
Better yet, come up with a system where you generate a unique system id on install, and have all the distros "register". Have it check back in say every six months to a year, and auto remove entries that haven't checked back in. Yeah, Yeah, I know about the privacy stuff, but do it in a way where it doesn't send any other data.
Having a better picture of the true number of linux use could be a powerful weapon against those corporate weenies that constantly claim there isn't a reason to support Linux.
It ticks me off that some software vendors are willing to spend the effort to support Macs, but not some distro of Linux, when I'm convinced that Linux is used on the desktop more than Macs.
51 • Fedora (by tomcat on 2006-11-20 20:39:40 GMT from Germany)
300 000 IPs for FC6? What about computers that use DHCP? I guess that will reduce that number. And computers that run without net-access will increase that number again... Whatever. Assuming there are 300 000 FC6 users, then I'd think that there are some 500 000 to 750 000 Fedora users alone. Now add Ubuntu, Debians, Mandriva, SUSE and some other big-leaguers (all of them with rather huge userbases) and the minor-leaguers to the mix and you get a very impressive number of Linux users. That's good news. :)
52 • post 47 (by Andrew on 2006-11-20 20:39:55 GMT from Canada)
kinfocenter will tell you about your hardware, you can use any kde based live disk to get it
53 • Linux installers (by Nathan Fisher on 2006-11-20 21:21:47 GMT from United States)
Have you tried installing WindowsXP from a cd? Ever? Most Linux installers are at least as good and most are better. Vector installs in around a half an hour, start to finish with a full system. Even FreeBSD is pretty easy to get running. The only ones that give me problems are the one with 'advanced' installers like Ubuntu and Fedora. Ubuntu just runs too slow to be usable on an older computer, unless you use the alternate install cd. Which seems to have problems finishing an installation, probably not under as heavy of scrutiny by the Ubuntu developers. And anaconda will not work at all on two of my computers, never has and I don't expect it ever will. Actually, I don't know what causes it. MIght be the way too patched piece of **** kernel. But anyway, the text mode installers that so many of you always criticize always seem to work flawlessly for me with a minimum of fuss, even the Slackware installer is nice and easy. Heck, the installer for WindowsXP starts out in text mode too, and then starts up an evil gui that runs with no feedback for what seems like days, giving you no clue as to what went wrong when it crashes.
So frankly, the comment that Linux needs a good easy to use installer to catch on is, to me at least, pure bull. Linux has a small user base for a million different reasons, but the main one is that virtually every new computer comes with Windows preinstalled, unless it is a Mac. And the masses are too lazy to find out about anything else. Linux is better. It makes a better desktop OS. It definately makes a better server. The only other OS I would consider running at this point is a BSD. But let's stop criticizing things about it randomly claiming that if some Linux dev would just fix this one problem then Linux would catch on like wildfire. Not going to happen that way, but the user base IS growing and will continue to do so because it IS a better system. And I will say it again, Linux makes a better desktop OS than Windows does, RIGHT NOW, it's just going to take the rest of the world a bit to catch on to this fact.
54 • Linux mint (by - at 2006-11-20 21:25:45 GMT from United Kingdom)
Using stats from the last 7 days, it has overtaken Ubuntu!
55 • No subject (by Henrik on 2006-11-20 21:31:48 GMT from Sweden)
Doesnt matter if its ten *buntu announcements,
isnt that the beauty of linux.
Would one be happier if it wasnt called Xubuntu but instead "SnakeLinux" or any other made up name(does snakelinux exist?),
and then, more rightiuos for it to be announenced on front page with Ubuntu?
sidenote1, i like dreamlinux(made a switch from kanotix)
sidenote2, I miss my seamonkey install and with it, my spellchecking
56 • linux counts (by dbrion on 2006-11-20 21:37:27 GMT from France)
What about dual boots (should be counted as 0.5 machines, except if they use, say, XP + VMplayer + an installable simulated LX? or Cygwin, which simulates any part of Lx, except the kernel? However, these configurations could also be considered fractionary Linuxes?). What about live CDs (if there is a better one, or a new version, or if they are only used for Windows repairing (ex. Clamav) they do not last 6 months?
Counting as full linuxes live CDs is somehow unfair with Mandriva or Suse, which have at the same time live and install version (and install versions have at least two (likely to be more) Windows managers; if *UBUs differ "only" by the window manager, should each Mandriva download be counted twice, for fairness?
I am surprised to read that Mepis and Vector Linux have a good hardware recognition . As far as I remember from July, 2006, none of them did support Freedom AZERTY keyboards during install... This can lead to interesting pqsszords blindly hit ....
57 • *buntu (by Anonymous on 2006-11-20 21:39:46 GMT from United States)
``Besides, this "insanity" only occurs twice in a year. If you can't stand it, you know exactly when it takes place so you can easily stay offline on those days.''
This is the number one answer if this were Family Fued. This is just like if you do not like the music shutdown your speakers. Too many *buntu's, then this is life and we should take it like it is. Too many "windows", there is just one "windows" and it still rules. Not all the *buntu's combined can overtake windows. It is a sad reality. Even though many would still like to see their project(s) overtake "windows". At least though, many people are starting to hate windows "vista". Many appreciate that Linux is surging even though some like *buntu's will one day start charging and become assh*les just like Microsoft Windows.
58 • Iceweasel soon in Debian (by Frank Enstein on 2006-11-20 22:00:11 GMT from Finland)
Some time ago Mozilla commanded Debian to change the name of their Firefox package because Debian doesn't want to use the official Firefox icon. Well, Iceweasel 2.0 should soon replace Firefox in Debian "unstable" and it should also be included in the Etch release. I'm curious to see what the Iceweasel icon looks like. :-D
59 • Put It On CD's (by tumatae on 2006-11-21 00:01:35 GMT from Philippines)
What about an Ubuntu repo that can be downloaded as an ISO? I know AptOnCD can help, but still you have to install apps while online... Does anyone knows where to get one?
60 • Low resource systems (by Bill on 2006-11-21 00:28:03 GMT from United States)
So it looks like Fluxbutu will be matching up with Puppy as far as recourse requirements, both need about 128MB. And Damn Small, how much RAM does it take to run from a CD?
61 • Limux Mint (by Michael Dotson on 2006-11-21 02:31:40 GMT from United States)
The Firefox crash in Linux Mint is caused by the use of Flash Player 9 Beta for Linux. It seems to be mostly caused by the default display setting set at 16 instead of 24 colors. A brief search of there web site yields the solution. I have installed it on a second drive with PCLinuxOS and Puppy on my primary drive. It picked up and added all my linux partitions to Grub. So far it seems to be Ubuntu on steroids, and after the Firefox crash is fixed it has been smooth sailing.
62 • Ulteo (by Scott Wilson on 2006-11-21 02:41:31 GMT from United States)
I don't think there is any iso's yet. The beta program was closed or at least not accepting new testers. I forgot which linux format had an interview with Gael Duval. The most interesting feature was that fact it was displayed in a web browser!? I think it was November issue of Linux Format.
63 • Linux Mint (by Michael Dotson on 2006-11-21 02:46:14 GMT from United States)
For those interested I found the fix.
1. Once Linux Mint is installed open a terminal.
2. In the terminal type sudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
3. Scroll down until you find the default screen setting
and change default screen depth to 24.
Flash Payer 9 Beta for Linux seems to need this setting to work properely. Web sites without flash work just fine even without the fix.
64 • RE 60 "And Damn Small, how much RAM does it take to run from a CD?" (by dbrion on 2006-11-21 03:26:22 GMT from France)
Using VMplayer, I did get down to 44 M (memsize = "44");
as DSL has a memory gauge, there was still ~20 M avalaible, but it seemed meaningless to lower again ( I am accustomed to view 10 or 20 M files, if needed.) It was quite comfortable to open Konsoles, know awk's versions after configuring the keyboqrd.
I hope it was not a rhetorical question.... Anyway, jwm seems quite beautiful and I didn't know it could be so ressource sparing...
65 • RE: post #7 "Printer friendly" (by johny on 2006-11-21 03:50:38 GMT from Australia)
As a short-term solution, you could highlight, copy, and paste to a basic word processor & then print out.
66 • 65 printer friendly (by AC on 2006-11-21 05:15:04 GMT from United States)
or for that matter, use Lynx to view distrowatch or telnet to port 80
67 • Re: I have to vent (by Misty on 2006-11-21 05:38:51 GMT from United States)
"I think there is absolutely no reason why every linux distro can not
have an installation procedure like PCLinuxOS or Mepis which are so
easy even a person just coming over from Windows can EASILY install
either of them."
Eh? When I tried installing the last version of PCLinuxOS to my hard drive it didn't work afterward. It forced me to use a /home partition, which I don't usually do as I keep a large number of files in my home directory, which take up a lot of space. Then, once the install was finished, my root password didn't work, even though it's same password I've been using for 3 years, and I had to type it TWICE so I know it was right. I could log in as a user, however, but little good it did me as /home wasn't writable! I didn't want to make a home partition in the first place and then I couldn't write to it. And the root password simply didn't work at all. Sheesh.
EASILY? Any Windows-user is going to run screaming from diskdrake. It is simply not for amateurs, as the interface isn't obvious and it's uncooperative -- at least on PCLinuxOS (hadn't used it for a long tgime)
68 • Non-Ubuntu repositories (by George Fragos on 2006-11-21 07:41:29 GMT from United States)
I always look to the standard Ubuntu repositories and Synaptic before looking elsewhere. I make exceptions for things like the Flash 9 beta and drivers I can't make work. It makes sense to try the newest version in that case. Some seem to have serious problems with upgrades. I have excellent experience with Ubuntu upgrades and I believe that relates to sticking with Ubuntu recommended elements.
69 • 2 points (by John on 2006-11-21 07:50:54 GMT from New Zealand)
A few responses:
On all the *buntus: There's only 4 official *buntus, all the others are independent derivatives. Would you skip the latest Mandriva announcement because its a Red Hat derivative? Or all those Slack derivatives? Heck, lets skip all the *buntus altogether, seeing as its just a Debian derivative... Look, Ubuntu is just the flavour of the month for people to fork off from, deal.
On KDE being bloated compared to : you need to look at the real world usage scenarios that have recently been posted. Sure, an empty Xfce desktop uses less memory than an empty KDE desktop, but by the time you fire up an e-mail program, chat program, music player, word processor, and IDE the picture is turned on its head. And on KDE I get a truly integrated environment that co-operates together, rather than a mish-mash of apps that don't know each other exist. Or don't you people multitask?
70 • Ubuntu Media Center (by Soloact on 2006-11-21 08:07:07 GMT from United States)
Bandwidth exceded, throughout the day and into the next. No mirrors to satisfy our curiosity?
71 • 69 KDE (by AC on 2006-11-21 08:40:31 GMT from United States)
Those points are valid if you like KOffice (and don't care about fonts) rather than OOo, like Konqueror rather than Firefox, etc.
72 • Mutagenix Installer. The Installer from Hell! (by RoachBoy on 2006-11-21 08:47:13 GMT from Kenya)
After a week or so of messing around with Dropline GNOME and Freerock GNOME on Slackware, I came across the Mutagenix live CD with Freerock Gnome. Now this is one impressive looking live CD, so naturally I was tempted to install it to my hard drive. Big mistake! The Mutagenix Installer is the installer from Hell! I started the install at midnight and five hours later it was still running! By doing a `df -h’ I could see that the files were being copied to the hard disk, but fearing for my hardware I eventually stopped the install. But then again, what reason have I to complain? The installer expressly warns that (1) It is not guaranteed to work (2) Even if it works it is not guaranteed to work correctly, and (3) The installer could destroy your computer! Mutagenix might well be a great distro, but until someone fixes that evil installer, it will soon be joining Distrowatch’s long list of inactive distros...
Which leads me to another comment. According to a review of Mutagenix at Tuxmachines (http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/3724) it took the reviewer only 20 minutes to install the live CD. Yeah, right! Too often, distro reviews by Linux aficionados tend to be suspiciously favourable. The reviewer I increasingly rely on nowadays is Jem Metzan (http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/index.php). He can be tough, but he is fair. Most recently he reviewed Fedora Core 6, and he called it “inferior”. He’s getting some flak for that review, but in my experience Fedora basically SUCKS (and I'm not too great a fan of the final product, RHEL, either)!
Regarding the deal between Novell and Microsoft, I note that a lot is being said about making OpenOffice.org compatible with Office Open XML, but wouldn’t it just be easier for Microsoft to standardize on Open Document Format? But of course that makes sense to everyone else but Microsoft.
P.S. After I wiped Mutagenix off my hard drive, I installed my old copy of Mandriva Powerpack 2006, and I must confess that like Ladislav I might have to reconsider my views regarding Mandriva. For instance, I'm impressed by how fast Mandriva boots (something to do with udev replacing hotplug), and I'm actually beginning to take a liking to the Galaxy theme. If this keeps up, I might have to get hold of a copy of Mandriva 2007! But for now, let’s see if Mandriva lasts till the end of the month on my hard drive :-)
73 •  On Novell-MS deal (by vdb on 2006-11-21 10:58:37 GMT from Italy)
I think all in all the 2 companies are just trying threatening people.
Considering that neither companies can _really_ claim on any patent infringement (I'd like to see it......) then the game they're playing becomes quite obvious.
Novell wants to take advantage of the fact MS is protecting them (the padrino type ;-) ) and so they would be the ONLY ones to sell a distro which covers they're users against _potential_patent issues.
On the other hand, MS just wants to spread fear amongst the Linux users and at the same time spread discredit on Linux itself so that new possible users would just get MSwin rather than bother with legal stuff.
And if, but only if, a user would be so stubborn to still get Linux despite all the above, well then, at least make some dosh out of it....
74 • SEA for FreeBSD (by Darwin Webb on 2006-11-21 11:21:56 GMT from United States)
An audit logging system. Wow! This means all the security issues will be in writing rather than hyed talk about SELinux, which BTW, was promised 2 years ago. By Debian, a pitiful start and no follow through. By Ubuntu, oh, that, may be next release + 1. And Free BSD, an installable package set for SELinux. (TrustedBSD - coming soon, waiting on godo.)
Now you SEA it, now you don't SEL it. And now it's write here in writing so you can't hyer or para virtualise security on last decades reruns.
What have you done for users lately concerning security.
75 • Sigh... (by 1c3d0g on 2006-11-21 11:34:48 GMT from Aruba)
#31/38/41: your thinking is flawed. Hundreds of distro's are based on Debian as well, as well as dozens from Red Hat, SUSE, etc. Are all their announcements redundant? No. You've obviously never tried X/K/Ubuntu because you'd instantly see that they're different. Next time you want to rant, at least pick a subject worth ranting over.
76 • Ubuntu Repositories (by Andrew Swinn on 2006-11-21 12:20:38 GMT from Australia)
I am a full-time user of Ubuntu on two working machines and I only have one single non official repository. The one is for the Wine project for the installation of ies4linux. Everything I use is otherwise available in the official repositories. The official ones are the ones I trust with a production machine.
77 • Announcement (by vdb on 2006-11-21 13:07:54 GMT from Italy)
78 • RE:77 (by Anonymous on 2006-11-21 16:18:31 GMT from United States)
Link to evil...my eyes...arrrrrgh....we are the cybermen...this site must be deleted
79 • #75 (by ray carter at 2006-11-21 16:28:40 GMT from United States)
I hardly call my comments a rant. I have indeed tried X/K/Ubuntu. I regularly run Kubuntu on three home machines and am responsible for four more at the local library. The differences between the three are the desktop. That hardly qualifies as a 'new distribution' besides which, as Ladislav points out: these are all official packages under the Ubuntu umbrella - that does not sound like an independant distro to me. I see a difference betweed 'being based on Ubuntu' and 'being Ubuntu with a different UI'.
80 • No subject (by N on 2006-11-21 18:11:55 GMT from United States)
I think it's fine that the *buntus are divided up, but it's also a bit misleading. I run an install of Edgy to which I added Kubuntu and Xubuntu through apt-get. When I start KDE or Xfce I'm running K/Xubuntu and not vanilla Ubuntu, even though it's the same seamless install from the same repos. They have separate identities, sure, but to they don't really feel separate.
81 • RE: #79 (by nano on 2006-11-21 18:22:49 GMT from Germany)
Indeed. You can install Ubuntu from the installation CD and you can then use the package manager in Ubuntu for installing Kubuntu, Xubuntu or Edubuntu. These are one and the same distro.
But you can't install Mepis or Mint or gNewSense from Ubuntu using the package manager because these are different distros.
IMHO, DistroWatch should have one common page for Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu and Edubuntu and there's also no apparent reason to tell about their new releases separately.
82 • Novell/Microsoft all ready fighting (by Scott Wilson on 2006-11-21 19:21:50 GMT from United States)
All is not well! So it seems Novell isn't rolling over, could we of been wrong about Novell? Was Novell a Trojan horse?
83 • RE: *buntu (by metoneca on 2006-11-21 21:42:12 GMT from Germany)
so many *buntu's .. will there be soon one for every possible window- /desktop manager? for every religion? for every sporting club? for every car? or.. for every human a personalized one (ok, perhaps there will be no ballmerBuntu). anyway, the whole yet existing *buntu show sounds like a uncool sweep attack to me.
84 • 81 RE: #79 (by ladislav on 2006-11-21 23:17:59 GMT from Taiwan)
We discussed this many times before, so please don't start this topic again. If you want to see a change in this respect then write to Ubuntu and ask them to discontinue their separate web pages and separate release announcement for all of their sub-projects and maintain just one web site - ubuntu.com. If that happens, I'll be happy to please you and remove Kubuntu, Xubuntu and Edubuntu from DistroWatch.
85 • third party repro's (by Sander Marechal on 2006-11-22 00:15:28 GMT from Netherlands)
I actually maintain a tiny third party repository with less than half a dozen packages for Ubuntu Dapper. The reason is simple: The software could not be added to Dapper (the the latest release) but only to Edgy (which was still far off). I wanted to support Daper as well so I had to do it myself.
If Ubuntu had a contrib where I could upload packages for a release even after it's been released (but is still being supported) the I'd create a 302 HTTP redirect right away :-)
86 • Distribucion (by Palistation on 2006-11-22 02:51:12 GMT from Venezuela)
Hola, quiero crear una distribucion propia, pero no sé exactamente por dónde empezar, sé que metadistros era una forma de empezar pero no la encuentro.
87 • Symphony still down! (by Tiny Elvis on 2006-11-22 03:06:23 GMT from United States)
Ladislav - symphonyos.com is STILL down - do you have any news on its demise? Unfortunately it still looks like their server is offline, which is just not good. Distrowatch shouldn't list distros that are down. It's been offline for weeks now.
88 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-11-22 04:09:08 GMT from United States)
I think having separate entries for Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Xubuntu makes a lot of sense. They use the same base system and one can install the other's flavors from one of them as well, but they are all different systems in that their users use different desktops that are maintained by different people.
But I do not see the point for Edubuntu, the Christian edition, etc. I would not even include them in distrowatch, less so in the announcements.
[Side note: Why not a Ubuntu Satanist edition? Or Sexist Ubuntu?]
89 • Here we go (by Scott Wilson on 2006-11-22 06:01:56 GMT from United States)
When will we grow up, and relieze Linux is Linux, even if its a specialized edition of a flavor of Linux. Its great you have a favorite version. I work in the IT/IS field, to the rest of the NONGEEK world there are two Linux Red Hat and Novell/Suse.
Everything else if you come across it in the field, is a flavor some geek wanted to use to either show off, to play with while at work. Except Debian and Slack
Why is it, that many of the Postings here seem to have a problem that here is a Ubuntu Christian edition, but no one seem to complain about the other version out there Ichthux?
Do you all assume since some one proclaims to be a Christian that some how they don't have the intelligence to use Linux. or let alone a computer?
While I'm at it, Folks If you don't like *buntu don't use it. If you combine K,ED,X,Ubuntu, together then some one will complain that the numbers are off because its 4 different distros listed under one.
Why are you all not gripping about Mint using restricted non free packages, but are gripping about the next version of Ubuntu.
90 • Ladislav (by Scott Wilson on 2006-11-22 06:06:24 GMT from United States)
Man I don't envy you. With a monthly article to write for Linux Format, and daily updates to Distrowatch. And everyone second guess what should and should not, be posted or listed. Im surprise that you haven't given up. Thanks for all the work.
Next "Donation" should be given to you.
91 • *buntu, *buntu, *buntu & *buntu (by not-buntu-user on 2006-11-22 10:12:35 GMT from Finland)
"Folks If you don't like *buntu don't use it. If you combine K,ED,X,Ubuntu, together then some one will complain that the numbers are off because its 4 different distros listed under one."
I think the point is that they're not really 4 different distros. It just happens to be that the man behind Ubuntu has enough money (and advertising know-how) to maintain separate web addresses and separate release announcements for the different flavours of Ubuntu. It's more convenient for Ladislav to give these flavours different pages and to post their announcements separately, and that's OK with me -- DistroWatch is his website and he gets to decide how he likes to run it. But it's also quite understandable that some people see this as annoying *buntu spamming.
"Why are you all not gripping about Mint using restricted non free packages, but are gripping about the next version of Ubuntu."
Ubuntu advertises itself as a distro that is committed to Free Software and Open Source http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/philosophy and it is only natural that their recent announcement to move towards installing closed-source graphics drivers automatically, without asking permission from users, raises controversy. The case is different with Mint because it doesn't pretend any such commitments.
92 • Re 21 & 34 (by Reiver on 2006-11-22 13:55:58 GMT from United Kingdom)
ATI and Nvidia design the hardware, and the drivers to use the hardware, they then sell the right to produce the cards to the hardware manufacturers such as Gigabyte, Sapphire who mass produce the cards for retail. That "right" is what gives ATI/Nvidia their main source of income, they are in the business of designing the chips, not mass producing them, passing on the retail risks associated to the hardware manufacturers.
How exactly do you suggest that they fund their R&D work given that they do not manufacture the final product for retail? And yes it does give either company a competitive advantage, which should be welcomed, as M$ have demonstrated how a non-competitive market can be exploited and abused!
93 • Re: Symphony still down! (by Ariszló on 2006-11-22 14:36:22 GMT from Hungary)
This is the latest archive.org cache:
94 • # 86 (by Anonymous on 2006-11-22 15:25:04 GMT from Brazil)
Comece com um liveCD de kurumin ou knoppix e faça uma remasterizção.
Os sites de ambas as distros tem tutoriais de como fazer a remasterização.
95 • And that surprises you? (by Bob on 2006-11-22 18:11:39 GMT from United States)
Ubuntu advertises itself as a distro that is committed to Free Software and Open Source http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/philosophy and it is only natural that their recent announcement to move towards installing closed-source graphics drivers automatically, without asking permission from users, raises controversy. The case is different with Mint because it doesn't pretend any such commitments.
A large corporation going against their word and breaking the spirit of free software... Get out!
The fact that Canonical caved to the Mozilla Corporation to be able to distribute FireFox (TM) should have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt just how little they care for software freedom. (Though in reality it probably has more to do with their users whining about having to edit a few configuration files *GASP* [The TORTURE!] to get the absolutely useless eye candy that they "need").
96 • #94 (by aussiebear on 2006-11-22 18:39:45 GMT from Australia)
I think its safe to say that SymphonyOS is DEAD.
97 • Re: And that surprises you? (by dizzy on 2006-11-22 23:46:50 GMT from United States)
First of all, the non-free drivers work. The free drivers are barely functional at best, and in many cases have severe, equipment damaging errors that need to be addressed. It's only logical that *for the time being* the non-free drivers should be the defaults. This is the fault of nVidia and ATI, not Ubuntu.
Secondly, Ubuntu did not go back on their word.Nothing in their philosophy said anything about making the OS 100% free. Ubuntu has NEVER been 100% free.
Thirdly, the only thing in Firefox that isn't free is the icon. That was the cause of all the fuss. Ubuntu (and 99% of everyone involved) didn't see the big deal in including a non-free icon.
98 • Ubuntu repositories (by Toran Korshnah on 2006-11-22 23:56:11 GMT from Belgium)
I have all the default repositories enabled.
I also installed Automatix, but found out the Automatix packages are not always the latest release.
So I skip Automatix.
For Java, Frostwire and flash I go to the developpers site.
Fond to find out what is Debians response towards Ubuntu.
99 • And in this corner: proprietary software (by lecaptain on 2006-11-23 02:15:56 GMT from Canada)
What is GNU Linux? Where is it going?
Before anyone gags or faints away at the above questions, allow me to try and set the stage for a frank discussion on the use of proprietary software in a computer operating system.
Please note, at the top, that I consider software and the operating system on a computer as simply parts of a tool, by which someone gets a job done or who uses those same tools for information gathering, entertainment, or enjoying, to the fullest, the "internet experience."
We, as a community, continue to argue "perfect world" specifications for "Free" software and I subscribe to those specifications. But if I am to get things done or enjoy this system I use for both work and play, I'll want the very thing I don't want on my system: propriatary software. Or said another way, a system, a tool, that simply "works right out of the box" so I can do what I want.
I would like to hear from the developers who have been fairly quiet on this issue: what is the state of their development for replacement software for the propriatary software I have to run to listen to my collection of MP3's, movies, etc., etc, etc.
In music I have a viable alternative, provided I wish to spend the hours to convert masses of music from one standard to another, with the hopes that the fidelity of that music is not lost in the conversion process. Happily, there are some music producers who are turning to the new processes and issuing BOTH org vorbis and MP3's of their music, with some even going to other formats. However, the point still must be made that I as a "consumer" still have to do something to make my old collection work. In this, if I turn to the big "M" as my operating system of choice, I in fact, have no choice... But without viable alternatives in Linux, I have the choice to bite the bullet, install the proprietary software, convert, or do without. It should be obvious, one or two of those choices are not going to happen because (insert whatever reason you think I have here).
And what of web tools? Flash? Real Player? Java?
I don't need the vast majority of readers of "Distrowatch" to say that THOSE tools are available or included as a part of a distro. I am aware of that and it is partly the reason behind why I'm writing this. The fact that they are available, but causes a newbee or even an experienced linux "person" to have to search for them in order to emulate a "works right out of the box" experience, is kind of tiresome, aside from the time spent needed to configure these little "gems" so that you or I can get something done or watch the latest advert from "Microsoft."
No, I don't want to re-visit that argument, but I do want to know at what state developers are in, with regard to replacements for these propriatary bits, that have been the source of such long standing controversy.
For me, arguments of its "free"....it's not "totally free," are moot as I have to be a pragmatist. As a "system software user" I have a choice:, the Big "M", the Big "L" or some other operating system that will give me less than what the first two will give me. (In this sense, I choose the Big "L", okay???). The reasons why I choose Linux are MY reasons and I don't think I have to justify that choice to anyone. Still, as a pragmatist, who, once I've loaded the version of Linux that I like, I will want it to work and for that I must turn to the long suffering developers. So for this reason, after hearing all the arguments among users for why or why not to do something, perhaps it's time for the crowd to quiet so that the voice of the developer can be heard and so tell us if this system which we ALL find superior to another brand, because of its philosphy, attention to detail, and all the rest...has the necessary bits to be all that it can be regarding non-proprietary software. And if not, at what stage they may be so that in words of someone else: "We'll be Free."
100 • RE 84 (96) Remasterisation (by dbrion on 2006-11-23 10:03:54 GMT from France)
Si vous préfèrerez le français, vous pouvez utiliser :
( reconfigurer Knoppix)
ou ALIXE ( liens dans ce DWW, utilise Slackware au lieu de Knoppix, gage de 'biodiversité')
101 • RE: 90 (by johncoom on 2006-11-23 15:57:21 GMT from Australia)
Everthing Scott said above to Ladislav
And don't you just love the last line ? I agree :-0
Next "Donation" should be given to you. (that is Ladislav)
102 • Proprietary etc.... (by rec9140 on 2006-11-24 01:40:34 GMT from United States)
The Linux community is not doing itself any good by running around like a bunch of cultists on philospical issues.
Running around attacking this company and that company becuase they don't release their software source for their device or even software is not going to win them over.
I've said before I'll say it again Jane/Joe used do NOT, NOT! NOT! NOT! care about the philosphical issues in the OS regardless of the source. The expect to turn on the computer and perform their task(s) be it word processing, email, dvd playback or what ever else. Free has one and ONLY ONE meaning to them, NO COST.
Quit wasting time and effort into this futile war on proprietary software. 95% of the users of a PC could care less about the source code.
Why does proprietary interfere with the ability to choose??? Lets just say that in a perferct world that there is nVidia official proprietary closed source binary drivers available and open source drivers. They work the same (this is a perfect world situation)....Distro abc and/or its user have philisopical issue with binary closed source drivers, so they use the open source one. I am some one who could care less and just want my nvidia card to work and my distro of choice to include the driver on the CD or downloadable. So distro abc has the open source one, distro xyz has the official nvidia one, distro 123 has both. Those who have "issues" can pick the distro that deals with those issues. Those who don't have issues can pick any. Seems like plenty of choice and "freedom" to me.
Oh I can hear it now.....but.....nvidia won't release this or that so that developers can write an equivalent... and I certainly agree thats a HUGE issue and a chicken and the egg situation. Another post mentioned that there is some issue with releasing the spec due to NDA's between ATI/AMD and nVidia and the manufacturers.. I REPEAT eVGA knows just as much about ATI's chips as ATI does. Thats a fact of life, industrial espionage. Why not release the specs so any takers can write drivers I don't get the economic advantage that a post mentioned. So enlighten me!
Another post mentioned that Sun wouldn't be releasing Java under the GPL if it were not for this constant assaults on Sun. I disagree. Like the adage goes you attract more with honey than vinegar. Constantly getting assaulted by the Cult of Linux and if I were the person in charge of this choice and I can you tell it would be a cold day in hades before I would make my software available for your OS! Come in an act like professionals and rationally discuss it and you would get a lot farther. Sun's decision has nothing with the Cult of Linux jihad.
Linux has the chance to gain a huge market with all the crap coming from Washington state lets not blow it. Continuing to attack companies to get drivers to support devices in linux from video to wireless to video capture and on ..... Who CARES WHERE the driver comes from if it works! I don't and 99% of the potential converts care even less, to at all, than I do.
Proprietary and open source can and MUST co-exist in the Linux world to move forward. Maybe the official drivers work better, maybe the open source ones work better and give nVidia a real headache so be it.
Until this division is resolved Linux is not going to even get a beachead on the desktop for Jane/Joe User.
103 • nVidia driver petition (by Anonymous on 2006-11-24 05:12:35 GMT from United States)
There are reasons why close source drivers are not the best choice in an open source OS.
Here's a few very non technical examples:
104 • 102 Sun and Java (by AC on 2006-11-24 06:54:34 GMT from United States)
"Another post mentioned that Sun wouldn't be releasing Java under the GPL if it were not for this constant assaults on Sun. I disagree."
Yet you have nothing to support your claim other than reciting cliches:
"Like the adage goes you attract more with honey than vinegar."
Ad hominems comparing the zeal of Free Software advocates that helped to male this OS possible a "cult":
"Constantly getting assaulted by the Cult of Linux and..."
Tossing out non sequiturs:
"...if I were the person in charge of this choice and I can you tell it would be a cold day in hades before I would make my software available for your OS!"
Then obviously, you were not the one making the decision, because pressure was brought and they are releasing it. So, what you would hypothetically do has no bearing whatsoever, since it obviously does not reflect the decision making process at Sun.
"Come in an act like professionals and rationally discuss it and you would get a lot farther."
That was done as well.
"Sun's decision has nothing with the Cult of Linux jihad."
Again, so you say.
Incidentally, three things have made a difference in the case of Sun and Java.
1. The pressure is not merely from desktop enthusiasts, but from web developers. On the server side, the GNU/Linux market share is nothing at which to sneeze.
2. Sun, unlike some companies, actually does care about its image in the FLOSS communities, though there is a push-pull relationship.
3. GCJ is an increasingly viable alternative, and Sun doesn't want to risk fragmentation of the market.
That last isn't just about pressure, but about developing alternatives, but those alternatives would not have been developed without people who care deeply about the issue.
In regard to another part of your rant, putting DVD playback in with the other issues you mention is pitifully ignorant. The only code available there is Free. But it is ILLEGAL in some countries because of draconian laws advanced by media companies. And as long and Jane and Joe don't care about philosophical issues, this sort of abuse by legislatures controlled by business will continue.
If Jane and Joe can't or won't help us with issues like that, what good are they?
105 • Ubuntu Multimedia Center (by Zach Thibeau on 2006-11-24 10:45:14 GMT from Canada)
I moved Ubuntu Multimedia Center to a new home. http://multimedia.debadmin.com. This is the updated link
106 • Re; 102 (by Reiver on 2006-11-24 13:27:44 GMT from United Kingdom)
Why not release the specs so any takers can write drivers I don't get the economic advantage that a post mentioned. So enlighten me!
First, any divulsion by eVGA as you mentioned set them up with a hefty legal battle. Secondly all economies benefit from competitive markets, they are dictated by demand, not by one company, which encourages competitive pricing, quality, innovation, and ultimately wealth creation within both the Micro and Macro economies. If you didn't have a competitve market with GPU's, you would have a very similar situation as with the OS market at the moment.
107 • Ubuntu multimedia link (by Scott Wilson on 2006-11-24 16:44:19 GMT from United States)
Still dosent work
108 • *buntu (by Dean Linkous on 2006-11-24 16:53:06 GMT from United States)
I just hope these ubuntu remasters realize that when they call themselves a distro that means they need to supply the source code. Official Ubuntu projects are fine and should be covered under the Ubuntu flag but others need to provide source.
I don't have much to say about mint, what can you say... They were too busy thinking if they could, they never stopped to think if they should. (stolen from Jurassic Park) ;)
I just think that those that always want linux to do *more* will never be satisfied since their will always be a new media format or encryption or something that doesn't work. I rather say phooey to all of them except the open ones then I never need to worry about it.
But that is just me....
109 • Re: Ubuntu Multimedia Center (by Ariszló on 2006-11-24 17:54:50 GMT from Hungary)
Not there. Here:
110 • Selectiveness in Distrowatch (by lucho on 2006-11-24 23:52:16 GMT from Brazil)
Let me start by saying I'm not here to flame anybody or be
a troll- if I seem so, please accept my apologies- but I do have
a question to ask.
I certainly enjoy reading Distrowatch every Monday. The site
and Ladislav deserve the praise they recieve, and I hope that
never changes. However, there seems to be a tendency for
some distros get more attention than others. This also manifests
in that some regions get more coverage than others. Here in Latin
America many, many events in Linux and open source in general
happen,and yet when was the last time it was mentioned in DWW?
Events in China and Iran are covered, yet nothing about events
in Brazil and Venezuela. Fedora and Ubuntu appear every week,
but when was the last time distros like Kurumin and Kalango got
more than a two- or three- word mention?
Don't get me wrong, I just think other regions and distros should
not be so ignored.
111 • RE: 110 Selectiveness in Distrowatch (by ladislav on 2006-11-25 00:23:54 GMT from Taiwan)
You are right - DistroWatch doesn't cover regional distributions and regional events as much as it should. However, I don't think you can put all the blame squarely on my shoulders. While I do understand a few languages and subscribe to many regional news feeds, I still find it very tedious to read news items and information in less familiar languages, including Portuguese (thought I am improving every day ;-) ).
One solution that springs to mind is for you guys to let me know about regional events that you think are important on interesting. You can always summarise things in English and email it to me together with the link to the original article. It doesn't help me if you just complain that I don't cover Kalango often enough - if there is something interesting happening in the Kalango developer or user community then please let me know! You can also write up a complete story for inclusion in DistroWatch Weekly.
One more note: on the DistroWatch main page, all distributions, big or small, English or Bhutanese, are treated equally. But in DistroWatch Weekly, there will always be a bias towards bigger and better-known distributions - simply because that's where much of the action is. That doesn't meant that smaller distributions will never be covered, but they won't get as much exposure as the big ones, since they don't create enough interesting news.
112 • re:111 (by Lucho on 2006-11-25 00:32:56 GMT from Brazil)
Like I said, I apologize if it came out that way. I was just
blowing off a little steam, sorry about that.
I've already got a few events in mind; keep an eye on your email ;)
113 • Distros stops to give the Kernel source ? (by werner, from Cayenne on 2006-11-25 06:39:24 GMT from France)
I see today again that more and more distros dont include the kernel source.
Today I tried install a Sagem ADSL USB modem, without success. Nor Mandrake, nor Fedora has that driver, and for can compile it from source, dont have the Kernel source (what configure / make is reclaiming to be needed). Tomorrow I uninstall them, and I install these peple Slackware what still have the kernel source.
What these distros makers think how people can use adsl ????
114 • Re 110: Kalango (by werner, from Cayenne on 2006-11-25 06:46:37 GMT from France)
Yes, about brazilean distros one can report, that the Kalango 3.3 live/install CD dont work, it crashs where it should open KDE, as I tested on several computers. And with Kurumin 7 nor sound nor automount/autoplay works, and one cannot enter normally into the grafics as root (except via console and startx) :(
115 • 114 graphical root login (by AC on 2006-11-25 08:49:17 GMT from United States)
Have you tried reconfiguring the display manager? many consider not allowing root logins on X to be a sane secure default.
116 • RE 113 Sagem Modem + Mandriva source kernel (by dbrion on 2006-11-25 14:50:34 GMT from France)
HAve you tried ftp://ftp.proxad.net/.mirrors2/ftp.mandriva.com/Mandrakelinux/official/2007.0/i586/media/main/updates/ (kernels sources)
I found new kernels in this server, and I am almost sure there are sources; Perhaps they match yous needs ....
As for SAGEM USB Modem, why do you have such a _thing_? You can connect to the web without this national wreck (I hope it is limited to France). The only simple advice I found to use it under Linux was "change it". This one of the reasons I do not have web connections (I have been living very well without IT connections for tens of years, and I want to go on, without viruses, SAGEM, worms and SPAM). ...
117 • # 110 (by Anonymous on 2006-11-25 14:56:31 GMT from Brazil)
Eu já rodei o liveCD do kurumin 7,
e achei muito bonito,
e um amigo instalou o mesmo num
acer aspire 3660 e funcionou tudo perfeito.
118 • # 114 - Werner (by Anonymous on 2006-11-25 15:06:45 GMT from Brazil)
"Yes, about brazilean distros one can report, that the Kalango 3.3 live/install CD dont work, it crashs where it should open KDE, as I tested on several computers. And with Kurumin 7 nor sound nor automount/autoplay works, and one cannot enter normally into the grafics as root (except via console and startx) :("
Kurumin 7 is still alpha, isn't?
Alsaconf do not helped?
You do not need to login as root to be root.
Do you can login as normal user into GUI and
run sudo or kdesu to run what need root privileges.
119 • RE 114 Brazilian distributions (by dbrion on 2006-11-25 15:14:38 GMT from France)
I speak only about live CDs: one should be indulgent, as these live LXs (unless they are for maintenance purposes) can grow outdated (as soon as there is a new release, I get rid of the former). I little know of Kurumin, except that it features a somewhat beautiful penguin (it looks less dull than the usual ones). I have sound cards on my PCs, but I disconnect them very often (what is the point for languages I don't speak -though I can read? Even when it is french located, noises do not seem very interesting).
What is more interesting is that Kurumin is the base for Poseidon Linux, which has a great list of scientific software (as does Knowscience in France, but more GIS oriented) Both work, but even if they had not, the idea (and the list of applications which are shipped in those CDs) can be very useful if one wants to install (on a HD, with its mother language, of course) some of them. If I had had GeoLivre, Poseidon (both brazileiros) or Knowscience 4 years ago, I would have lost less time googling for scientific applications.... => The point of them working or not is not the main point....
120 • Brazuca distros (by Lucho on 2006-11-25 16:56:36 GMT from Brazil)
re 118: exactly. Kurumin 7 is still in the beta stage, and I know
the developer (Carlos Morimoto) asks for bug reports.
For me, Kurumin is just Kanotix that's more attractive and much
friendlier to new users. It's an excellent distro.
Kalango is also good, although very... blue. I like it, but for some
reason I always hear Jimmy Buffet in my head when I boot the
121 • ADSL with Linux (by werner on 2006-11-25 18:52:33 GMT from France)
Sagem is (probably in whole France) caming with wanadoo/orange's ADSL. But there seems being no binary driver.
122 • # 120 (by Anonymous on 2006-11-26 13:42:38 GMT from Brazil)
"For me, Kurumin is just Kanotix that's more attractive and much
friendlier to new users. It's an excellent distro."
Concordo com você. Também acho o kurumin excelente por ser um knoppix/kanotix só que bem localizado para pt_BR, com um aspecto geral bem apresentado, menu caprichado, e, por causa disse é um excelente liveCD para mostrar o linux para não-linuxers, ou seja, é muito bom para trazer pessoas para o linux e (eventualmente) instalar um linux no hd, mesmo que em dual boot.
Ainda ante-ontem rodei um xubuntu 6.10, e ele também é bem bonitinho, mas não é localizado pt_BR, e o kurumin já é, out-of-the-box!
123 • 104 (by rec9140 on 2006-11-26 22:45:16 GMT from United States)
Plain and simple Sun made a business decision to realse Java.... They are expecting to MAKE $$$$ from this move. Nothing more. The Linux Jihad made zero difference in it. You can think it did, this all about the $$$$ and thats its. Sun feels it can make $$$ by realsing Java in this manner now and that doing so will help to turn the company around.
And your post shows plain and simply why Linux will not take off on the desktop:
"If Jane and Joe can't or won't help us with issues like that, what good are they?"
So Linux is better off WITHOUT the average user simply because they don't compile or write software? ? ? ? That and similar attitudes is what is slashing Linux's throat on the desktop.
Plain and simple Linux will never grow into the desktop market, and its obvious, to you thats probably fine. So those of us wishing to use OS L, must meet minimum requirements now???
People like ME make the decision to use x OS in place of y OS. I've made my personal decision on OS. Were it not for 1 application my entire office would be run on Linux 100%. One application is messing this up. I can not perform this function in Linux, period, that software is not written nor will it ever be written for Linux till there is a large enough base to make it $$$. Don't bother with the if it were open source it could be compiled... That may be true, not lets move into the real world.... If my code is open source how is my company making any $$$$????? Once the software is installed theres no need to for any other costs like support, its a one time deal. This is always going to be a binary distribution.
As for my example of DVD playback, its just one issue, but if OS M can playback DVD with out it being illegal then OS L can as well. The present decss may be illegal, so create one or license one for Linux that is not illegal. OS X and OS W can playback DVD's legally, so lets get on with it. Another reason for Linux Inc. to exist and resolve this issue. The same holds true for all sorts of audio and video codecs...... I would love to stream my little audio stream in MP3 and/or Ogg via linux..... I've tried, not one Linux distro will support the hardware that OS W will do this under. (The stream is run on an old 486 P133 on Win95 with WME V4.1 feeding a 20KBs WMA 2 stereo audio feed. Works quite well. Find me a Linux distro that will do the same on this clunker and I will change to that gladly! I've looked at all the small distro all take either 128MB RAM or higher processors or more disk space than this thing has even installed! )
Desktop users are not inrested in "Free" v. free, I've already posted that they see no difference and where their definition of free is at.... And as much as you may think that the constanting nagging and bothering on Sun as an example, got them to see the light and release Java.... Its because some analyst told them they could make $$$ by doing so, period.
I and most others could care less where the driver for this or that, or the codec for this or that comes from OSS or the company, they are interested in it working. Continuing to harang a company that about YOUR ideal of business is not going to work. Should the companies like ATI/AMD & nVidia, and Broadcom etc. realease the info needed so that the OSS community can write drivers, yes. Your bulldog attack model is not going to get it there. Its a turn off to users and companies.
Its time for each group to take their respective paths in the Linux world. Linux for the Cult of Linux, and the Linux Inc. path which gets Linux on the desktop and starts replacing OS W. Jan 30, 2007 is coming and its time to start, NOW. Business end users have no say on OS, so Nov. 30, 2006 is irrelevant.
I will support any distro that INLCUDES:
2) codecs, drivers, etc. that make ATI, nVidia, Broadcom or any other device work.
Hopefully more will ignore the rants of Cult of Linux and include these. The more installed based of Linux, the it has to be dealt with when Jane User gets support and they have to deal with the Linux users.
124 • 106 (by rec9140 on 2006-11-26 22:58:49 GMT from United States)
I am not talking about eVGA releasing the specs... I am talking about nVidia.
With the specs, and all the specs OSS developers could write the drivers needed to operate these devices in a mode that meets the Cult of Linux needs.
ATI/AMD and nVidia I am sure have eVGA and other under NDA's to not release these specs under the mistaken delusion that ATI doesn't know about nVidias new megachip 1000 and vice versa. Phoey... Company x probably knows just about as much about company y's new mega widget as they do. Its a fact of the business world, business espionage. The companies probably have several sets of various levels of prototypes that have been aquired by various means. They are not protecting anything. Just look at the development of the various video chips. One may release a device a few months ahead of the other, but the other normally quickly follows up with a similar of their own if not better, and the cycle continues. They couldn't release a follow up within in a few months if they didn't have a good idea of what was their already. You can not reverse engineer, CLEAN ROOM wise silicon that quickly.
Once the development is done, release the specs so developers OSS or otherwise can write drivers for it.
I don't have an issue with drivers as binary loads, so long as it works, I don't care where it comes from OSS or the company. I just want to get the benefits from the hardware I paid for.
125 • Re: 123 by rec9140 (by Ariszló on 2006-11-27 08:00:01 GMT from Hungary)
Quote: "I will support any distro that INLCUDES:
2) codecs, drivers, etc. that make ATI, nVidia, Broadcom or any other device work."
Then Linspire resembles your Linux Inc. OS:
Number of Comments: 125
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Ubuntu Mini PC
Intel H87 with Intel Pentium Dual Core G3220 3.0Ghz CPU HDMI VGA Dual Display