| DistroWatch Weekly
1 • Mandriva (by Andrew on 2006-10-09 12:38:59 GMT from Australia) |
It's good to see them coming back into the game. Hopefully they start producing a distro not clouded with bad reviews, blown deadlines and unhappy club members!
2 • Nice DWN (by Kensai on 2006-10-09 13:26:22 GMT from Puerto Rico)
Summary, Mandriva is good again, at last, well not that good, the beta were better for me than the final release. Debian is still strugling to set it's goal straight. Still I'm using my own distro with a new System Development Environment called opensde. So if you are interested as well with this new t2 fork, #opensde is the place to be :-).
3 • Does someone know what happend to contribs.org? (by Smic on 2006-10-09 13:26:44 GMT from Switzerland)
Does someone know what happend to contribs.org the home of sme-server?
4 • debian situation is getting worse... (by fukodlak on 2006-10-09 13:35:18 GMT from Croatia)
they should meet on the great field with some midlle age weapons, split on the fractions, and kill themselves finally.
this is ridicilous. no debian newsletter and voting to recall the first debian leader that makes his job right. these guys are insane.
mandrive rules, and it never stopped rulling.
5 • Great Sabayon (by fireedo on 2006-10-09 13:45:49 GMT from Indonesia)
Sabayon linux is really a good and promising project also the last release version is really great..... :)
6 • I hope Mandriva gets better (by Alan on 2006-10-09 13:56:25 GMT from United States)
I downloaded the Mandriva 2007 DVD (it took 2+ days via Bit Torrent using a DSL line) only to find that the boot process failed. I tried six times on three machines. Until I can get a reliable 'real' server to connect for a redownload, I'm staying with PCLinuxOX, the working Mandrake.
7 • You know... (by 1c3d0g on 2006-10-09 13:59:00 GMT from Aruba)
...the sheer amount of controversy with Debian every damn week is pretty childish, to say the least. God spare us from that horrible distro.
8 • Long live Debian (by AC on 2006-10-09 14:07:02 GMT from United States)
Community's in which divergent views and voices are heard and acknowledged are always messy. It's a small price to pay for freedom.
9 • slackware release and missing gnome (by sathya on 2006-10-09 14:17:05 GMT from India)
Gnome is missing from slack 11 (as usual no official build).
Builders such as dropline and gware haven't 2.14 released packages for slack11 (available only for 10.2). So there is no question about 2.16.
Seems slackers got to wait for them to provide or build our own.
10 • Debian, Mandriva, KDE 3.5.5 (by Jose on 2006-10-09 14:26:18 GMT from Puerto Rico)
Its sad to see all this strife in the Debian camp but every project has it's growing pains. Good news about Mandriva, and that is refreshing. BTW, PCLinuxOS is also one of the distros with KDE 3.5.5
As always, the newsletter is a great read.
11 • Mandriva (by jlg on 2006-10-09 14:29:42 GMT from France)
A friend of mine bought a 2007 ....
Install ok but impossible to boot (locked screen, and fancy error on usb) after 2 o 3 reinstall with the same issue , going homeI've tried it on my machine.
P5B, core2 , sata...idem, install ok (i had to make an iso image to be able to make the insallation cause of the jmicron stuff not supported)
I could boot with the noapic in lilo and standard boot (not the graphic one).
I had to fill numerous serial and microsoft-like answer !!!
(By the way, the install is just full of publicity screens, a bit ennoying for a paid version!)
Surprise, kde bug so much that I had to stay with gnome, and there impossible to open the update manager without a message "bla bla bla server bla bla unreachable bla)
I'tried then to go in the forum and there was impossible to connect with my new password.
Sad very sad, it finish with the command it deserve:
12 • mdv2007 (by phil on 2006-10-09 14:36:22 GMT from Germany)
well I already found several bugs in mdv2007...
13 • Re: #11 (by Michael on 2006-10-09 15:10:23 GMT from South Africa)
Sadly you're an idiot. Taking commercial software from a friend and installing it on your hardware. Mandriva and the rest of us won't care that you had these problems.
Boo-hoo you pirate ;-)
14 • Slackware 11.0, SLAMD64, Bluewhite64, etc. (by IMQ on 2006-10-09 15:13:27 GMT from United States)
I am glad to see the release of Slackware 11.0 along with the unofficial port to x86_64 platform from Slamd64 and Bluewhite64.
I don't have a x86_64 box yet (missing a AMD64-based mainboard at the moment), but I would like to hear some feedback from guys and gals who have flirtatous or intimate relationship with x86_64. What's your take? What work and what not? Which port of x86_64 (doesn't have to be Slackware-based) are you running?
PS: Which 939-based mainboard are the least problematic for Linux?
15 • RE: Does someone know what happend to contribs.org? (by Garret on 2006-10-09 15:27:40 GMT from United States)
Works fine for me, what's the issue?
16 • Re #13 (by ArrrrEfffffff on 2006-10-09 15:36:44 GMT from United Kingdom)
Neither would Mandriva, another reason for club members to be miffed! Anyway, mdv2007 will be quickly forgotten when FC6 arrives :D
17 • RE: Does someone know what happend to contribs.org (by Smic on 2006-10-09 15:42:26 GMT from Switzerland)
It was not working for me for about 1 week now. But after you said it was working for you, I tested with a proxy server and it was working. So it must be related to my ISP (mtu or something like that). Sorry
18 • Mandriva Linux 2007 has too many annoying bugs (by Shiyu Tang on 2006-10-09 15:43:18 GMT from China)
I have tried Mandriva Linux 2007 only to find there are too many annoying bugs in it. A lot of them were reported and even fixed, but they are still in offical version! I don't know why. For example, Bug 22018(http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22018) has been reported several months ago and fixed several days before final release, but it is still in 2007. This bug is quite annoying. I don't know how users feel when they meet OpenOffice interface without any words!
I have to say that there are less bugs in MDV 2007 than 2006, but some of them are obvious and annoying. Maybe no more than 10 bugs are of this type, but they give a terrible impression to users.
For example, some people will find Firefox unbearable slow. But Firefox tarballs from Mozilla.com doesn't has this problem. Someone says it is a pango bug, and can be solved by typing "MOZ_DISABLE_PANGO=1 mozilla-firefox" in console to launch. Oh yes, with MOZ_DISABLE_PANGO=1 I don't meet the problem, but is there anyone who wants to launch Firefox not from menu but from console and type so many upper letters? See Bug 26345(http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=26345).
Another one is in the new rpmdrake. Anyone who sets locale to UTF-8 will find that if rpmdrake can't install rpms, for example, can't download rpms from internet, or something wrong when verifying, etc, a window will popup and tell people what is wrong, but messages in this window are garbaged! So no one knows what rpmdrake complains. See Bug 25130(http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=25130). It seems to be a long-life bug.
Rpmdrake not only has bug above, it also redownloads rpms again and again even these rpms are already in cache. See the post in Manriva Club(http://forum.club.mandriva.com/viewtopic.php?t=54352).
In fact, rpmdrake can never use before RC1. Mandriva left far less time to testers than needed to catch and fix bugs. I don't know why they don't make it work in beta 1 so that we have enough time. 10 months are between releasing final 2006 and first beta of 2007, and why they didn't make a useful rpmdrake during so long time? Were they hibernating? I am wondering.
And ATi driver bug, LinDVD bug, changing theme bug... too much!
Bugs of this type are obvious to find and annoying to users. Even a small number will break users' confidence to Mandriva and give them terrible impression on this company.
As a result, in Mandriva Club, someone wrote a post with the title "Mandriva 2007 is full of bugs!"(http://forum.club.mandriva.com/viewtopic.php?t=54290). Right. I totally agree with him.
19 • RE: Does someone know what happend to contribs.org? (by Garret on 2006-10-09 15:43:24 GMT from United States)
Works fine for me, what's the issue?
20 • 13 piracy (by AC on 2006-10-09 15:43:53 GMT from United States)
Yes, unauthorized sharing of software (or music or whatever) is the moral and legal equivalent of pillage, rape, and murder on the high seas.
People buy into nonsense like this and yet others wonder why emphasizing GNU and Free Software ideals is important.
21 • contribs.org (by Scott Dowdle on 2006-10-09 16:04:18 GMT from United States)
Oddly enough, from a Fedora Core 5 machine... I can never get to contribs.org (someone asked above) but from any other machine, I can get there. I've tried every browser on FC5 (Firefox 1.5.x, Konqueror, links, Opera, telnet port 80) and no matter what I do, I can't view their webpage. I've had the exact same experience from two completely different machines in different locations... with completely different network connections.
If I use anything other than FC5, no problem.
22 • KDE 3.5.5 (by djohnston on 2006-10-09 16:09:07 GMT from United States)
"BTW, PCLinuxOS is also one of the distros with KDE 3.5.5".
PCLinuxOS is currently @ KDE 3.5.3.
23 • About Mandriva and Fedora (by Jordi on 2006-10-09 16:12:26 GMT from Spain)
It's a pitty we don't have Fedora this week, i was planning to install it this weekend, well, we'll have to wait some more days until they can iron out this bugs.
And i download Mandriva gnome LiveCD and the free edition DVD via Bittorrent (a good change since last year), and i can say it's a very good XGL/AIXGL demo CD
I tried it on a 9800 pro, X800XT and an integrated 845G intel chipset, and worked with XGL in all cases. A good job.
24 • To the 6th comment (by Anonymous on 2006-10-09 16:23:30 GMT from France)
Just take in account that the boot process stays locked during the HAL start because it is compiling non-free modules. This could lock the startup a bit ldepending on your hardware. With my PC, it lasts 20 seconds. This happens only the first time you boot.
Otherwise, Mandriva 2007 is a dreamed-of distribution, everything worked perfectly and applications are really up-to-date. I just wish they could stay with a one-year release cycle if the product is that perfect.
Another thing, Mandriva is not a French distribution, it is mostly international, and even though I am French, I can say that it is far from being developed only by people from my country.
25 • x86_64 (by Nate on 2006-10-09 16:24:55 GMT from United States)
Which port of x86_64 (doesn't have to be Slackware-based) are you running?
I've had success (or at least no problems) with X/Ubuntu Dapper, Sabayon, and OpenSuSE 10.1. The only real problem is that there are specific bits of software with no 64 bit version (Flash is the most annoying for me). You can sometimes force an install of a 32 bit version, but it can get ugly and its a hassle. Currently I'm using (32 bit) KateOS 3.0 as my main distro.
A while ago I dual-booted 64 bit and 32 bit Ubuntu Dappers. Ubuntu 64 felt slightly faster, but I couldn't really put my finger on it. For me the speed increase was minimal, and dwarfed by the speed increase of using a lean distro like Kate or Xubuntu with the XFCE desktop. I browse the web, use office programs, watch DVDs, and play TORCS and NetHack. For these sorts of tasks a contemporary Athlon processor is overkill, so the advantages of 64 bits really don't mean much. YMMV if you do something more processor-intensive, and in a year or two this might be different.
PS: Which 939-based mainboard are the least problematic for Linux?
My Biostar TForce mATX budget board has had no problems with any of the above.
26 • Mandriva docs (by dbrion on 2006-10-09 16:49:51 GMT from France)
#13, was there any doc (paper, browsable) in mdv2007 commercial version (which seems to have a legal copy of vmplayer, giving a view to other versions. [ qemu is a good simulator too, but the user-installable -non root- version might be slow this year???]).
Something astonishes me : it is the rank of Kaella (a specially Freedom-keyboard crafted live Knoppix; all keyboards were replaced by local (i hope it stays) hardware detection) Ppl who test Kaella (as a live cd -& likely a repair CD-) and Mndvxxxx will choice Kaella; but they find it from other sources -colleagues, papers, habits-than DWN (except for experts, it is used if you want to change your system version or find very good repair CD).
27 • 14 64 bit (by AC on 2006-10-09 17:05:56 GMT from United States)
Currently on my Athlon 64 box, I run Debian stable. The official x86 contains 64 bit kernels and libs as well as full 32 bit userland. To me this is the best of both worlds, because the biggest advantages of 64 bit are with the kernel, you can use all the 32 bit binaries you need, and you can compile 64 bit apps for processor intensive tasks. Naturally, you can also compile your own 64 bit kernel from Debian or upstream sources.
I also have chroots for both Etch and Sid, in 32 and 64 bit, effectively giving me complete 64 bit environments, handy for testing and development. When i get around to it, I'll probably also set up a chroot for LFS and another for Gentoo. And it's all with the solid base of Debian stable.
28 • Ubuntu CE -- Trademark Violation? (by Ubuntu User on 2006-10-09 17:12:38 GMT from United States)
I think that Ubuntu CE is a great distro for those who want certain "Christian" features, but as a non-christian, I am sort of tired hearing about it. Is an Ubuntu Buddist Edition or an Ubuntu Jewish Edition far off? The idea of ubuntu
Regardless of my personal beliefs, I don't think that the distro should use Ubuntu's trademarked name. This is similar to why Debian can't use the name Firefox or its logo. If Debian can't use it, why should UCE be able to say Ubuntu in its name, without permission? See http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/TrademarkPolicy/
Ubuntu should insist that Ubuntu CE stop using its name in its distro. A distro that caters only to Christians is not Ubuntu, especially when the Ubuntu logo is surrounded by an Ichthys (Jesus Fish) which is used by Christians to identify a business that will only do business with other Christians.
A person or thing with ubuntu is, according to Archbishop Desmond Tutu, "open and available to others, affirming of others, does not feel threatened that others are able and good, for he or she has a proper self-assurance that comes from knowing that he or she belongs in a greater whole and is diminished when others are humiliated or diminished, when others are tortured or oppressed."
I'm not certain that Ubuntu CE meets this definition.
29 • 28 (by AC on 2006-10-09 17:53:40 GMT from United States)
Ultimately, it is up to Canonical to enforce their trademarks, though failure to enforce may weaken their rights in future disputes. For all we know, the makers of Ubuntu CE have permission. But one may wonder if Canonical is worried about being cast as "anti-Christian"
30 • RE #14 (by raskolnikov on 2006-10-09 18:19:52 GMT from Mexico)
I have an ASUS A8N-E ( http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=15&l3=171&model=455&modelmenu=1 ) with an Athlon64 3700+ ~ 2.2GHz 1Mb cache L2, San Diego core 90nm, socket 939 of course.
Slackware 11.0 runs pretty smooth right now. Albeit some months ago when I tried Slamd10.2 a lot of things went awry, I haven't download the 11.0 64-bit ports yet but likely I shall stick to Slamd64 as BlueWhite64 doesn't offer 32-bit fallback support (as I understand that's the main difference between the two 64-bit Slackwareish ports)
31 • Ichthys (by Andy on 2006-10-09 18:22:04 GMT from United Kingdom)
"Ichthys (Jesus Fish) which is used by Christians to identify a business that will only do business with other Christians."
Not sure where you got that one from. People I know just use it to show that they are Christians - doesn't mean any more than that.
32 • 28 PS (by AC on 2006-10-09 18:22:23 GMT from United States)
Two more comments on the Ubuntu trademark.
First, note that Debian CAN use the Firefox name, but only under the terms specified by the Mozilla Foundation, terms Debian finds incompatible with the Debian Free Software Guidelines. Canonical may likewise have standards that determine when they give permission to use the Ubuntu trademarks. I think they're in a tricky position though, risking either an "anti-Christian" label is they go after Ubuntu CE, or a slippery slope if they don't and then find themselves picking and choosing between versions of Ubuntu catering to various communities.
Second, note that of course, Desmond Tutu is a Christian. So, Christianity and Ubuntu are not incompatible principles. I imagine your suspicions turn on the use of the Ichthus and the suggestion that this implies only doing business with other Christians. Do you have a reference for this claim? I am sure the symbol is used in other ways in any case.
I think we no more need religious based distros than we need race or gender or sexual orientation focused distributions. That's just me. I'd already pointed my Christian clients to GNOMEsword and GDesklets with daily Bible verses from Debian's repositories and when I later mentioned Ubuntu CE to them, they weren't particularly interested. But perhaps it will attract new users.
33 • Re:28 Ubuntu CE (by octathlon on 2006-10-09 18:24:27 GMT from United States)
I have to agree that they shouldn't use "Ubuntu" in the name. That opinion has nothing to do with it being a Christian distro, I would say the same about any distro using the Ubuntu name without an official sanction from Ubuntu. I support their concept but they should pick another name.
In addition to that, I also agree that using the Ubuntu name for a distro of a specific religion does make Ubuntu appear discriminative and is against the "spirit of ubuntu".
34 • Ubuntu CE more (by AC on 2006-10-09 18:33:42 GMT from United States)
From the Ubuntu CE FAQ
Q: Is Ubuntu Christian Edition officially supported by Canonical?
A: No, it is not "officially" supported. Our project is not funded by Canonical. However, we have contacted them regarding our project and they have given us guidelines to follow and have thanked us for supporting the Ubuntu Community and introducing Ubuntu to the Christian Community.
Apparently, Canonical has given permission for the use of their trademarks along with specific guidelines for the terms of that usage. We may wonder if Canonical has stepped onto a slippery slope, but Ubuntu CE seems to be safe legally.
35 • Maybe they feel it's their turn? (by just john on 2006-10-09 18:37:11 GMT from United States)
Maybe the "Christian" distros are just them demanding their place in the sun after we in the Church of the SubGenius have had ours for so long (why d'ya think it's called SLACKware?)
36 • RE 28 (by Mark on 2006-10-09 18:47:40 GMT from United Kingdom)
I totally agree with what you're saying, I'm waiting for the Athiests edition but might compromise with the Agnostic version if this comes out earlier?
WHY oh WHY do we need religious verions of Linux when there are too many forks from the major distro's already. IMO rationalisation of distro's is needed and pool knowledge into important NOT fluffy versions of established code
37 • Is an Ubuntu Buddist Edition or an Ubuntu Jewish Edition far off?RE 28 (by dbrion on 2006-10-09 18:48:58 GMT from France)
Definitely not: they are not missionary cults (if you want to become a buddits, you ask a buddist priest and you convince him you will be a good buddist; so propaganda/advertising is not necessary.
Some missionary cults are, by alphabetic order:
* christian, with love and wiseness messages (DWW no 171, post 168)
* Discordian churches (for links, hit
man ddate # (2 d) under Linux consoles)
* pastafarian (http://www.venganza.org)
38 • Debian Crisis (by Distro_Who on 2006-10-09 18:55:06 GMT from Puerto Rico)
Is a reality that the ubuntu born/evolving became a disruptive event in the debian comunity and the "du-whatever tank" experiment is a prove of that.
plus the "democracy" in the comunity is evolving in the next level, called "burned democracy " or "anarchy". Let's see in november how much ubuntu is forked from debian...
excuses for my english...
39 • replies (by AdamW on 2006-10-09 18:55:43 GMT from Canada)
#11: you don't 'have' to provide any serial numbers etc. I presume you're referring to drakfirsttime, the wizard that lets you enter your Club login or the product code from the box, to enable some bonus services. This is entirely optional. There is a 'skip wizard' button. Feel free to use it.
Shiyu, you can't have it both ways. You work for improved CJK (especially Chinese) support, which is really useful and appreciated, then you complain about our enabling Pango by default in Firefox. Fred does this because it is necessary for correct text rendering in some languages. Imagine if Chinese were one of the languages which needed Pango for correct rendering; wouldn't you be campaigning for us to turn it on by default? Please remember that there are speakers of other non-English languages who are just as passionate about support for their languages as you are about support for yours. :)
40 • Religous Views (by SimoneDice on 2006-10-09 19:09:53 GMT from United States)
Who is it for people to say what can and can't be done with free open source software? Why can a distribution be created for a unique purpose if it relates to something technological, but if it is something that you 'personally' don't believe in, that it is not OK? That is just propagating hate.
Please, if you don't believe in religion, that is fine. But don't hate someone else for bringing together two things they like (Linux + 'Their' Religion) because you don't like it.
41 • Mandriva - last-gasp attempt to create interest (by Matthias on 2006-10-09 19:18:22 GMT from United States)
I think giving away the ISOs is a desparate attempt by Mandriva to recapture some of the mindshare they have lost over the past couple of years (remember the days when the old Mandrake was at the top of the page hit rankings, here at Distrowatch?).
At this point Mandriva are in such severe financial distress, that it seems inconceivable that they could continue to exist as an independent enterprise. They will need to find a buyer SOON, or the lights will go out. And to generate investor interest, they need to finally rebuild some buzz around their distribution.
Just my $0.02.
42 • RE: Contribs.org (by Garret on 2006-10-09 19:24:21 GMT from United States)
Try opening up a term and typing "sysctl -w net.ipv4.tcp_window_scaling=0
Please email the results.
43 • stupid hurts sometimes (by Andrew on 2006-10-09 19:30:25 GMT from Canada)
you are free to do with firefox what you want, but if you want to use the name you have to follow their rules. I can't take the Linux kernel close the source and release it, I have to follow the rules. Sometimes I can't stand you people.
44 • Ubuntu CE (by Distro_Who on 2006-10-09 19:32:55 GMT from Puerto Rico)
For that distro i just recomend to remove or change the "CE" to avoid a "religious war" between microsoft and ubuntu, remember linspire a.k.a lindows...
45 • Ubuntu CE (by Anonymous on 2006-10-09 19:42:39 GMT from United States)
Ubuntu is not a distribution, but as it says an "Edition". It is not in any way structurally different then Ubuntu, but has a different theme and some additional package.
46 • Re: 4# (by hMmM on 2006-10-09 19:54:40 GMT from United States)
47 • Mandriva 2007 (by arctic on 2006-10-09 19:56:11 GMT from Germany)
I was quite suprised to see the Mdv 2007 isos available after two (?) days past the release date on the mirrors. Great move. And I must say that I am very, very satisfied with this release. On the four computers I have that run on Mandriva 2007 (the others run with Debian), no problems occured during the installation, everything just worked. And the speed increase during bootup (less than 35 seconds from grub to a working Gnome 2.16 on my boxes) is nice, too.
It works as expected, it feels good, is responsive. Sure, there are still some bugs in it, but there are bugs in every distro you install. Mandriva is no different in this respect than Debian, Gentoo, Fedora, OSX or Windows XP. Hardly a point for criticism imho.
Mandriva has definitely released a great distro that is (my personal opinion) better than Ubuntu and Mandriva has apparently taken the right path (abandoning the weird policy they followed for some time). Let's hope that they stick to that path. I will recommend 2007 to others, that's for sure.
48 • Response to #31 (by Alan on 2006-10-09 20:03:18 GMT from United States)
I'm not the poster of the original message in this thread, but I have had the experience of being put down in several "Bible Bookstores" (no 'Christian' in the name) that displayed the fish along with several other symbols when I asked for the version of the Bible that Jesus would have been familiar with (Masoretic, locked down 500 years earlier).
I also wonder about which version(s) of Christianity are targeted. There is a surprising amount of variation among the various sects.
49 • RE: #41 (by arctic on 2006-10-09 20:03:36 GMT from Germany)
"I think giving away the ISOs is a desparate attempt by Mandriva to recapture some of the mindshare they have lost over the past couple of years (remember the days when the old Mandrake was at the top of the page hit rankings, here at Distrowatch?)."
Mandriva has not lost much of the clicky-clicky points. It was around roughly 1400 and 1600 page hits for soem years. Ubuntu simply got more clicky-ckicky than any other distro before. But do I rate a distro on page hit ranks (PHR)? No. If the PHR were an indication of the general usage of a linux distro, then Red Hat must be poor! ;)
"At this point Mandriva are in such severe financial distress, that it seems inconceivable that they could continue to exist as an independent enterprise. They will need to find a buyer SOON, or the lights will go out. And to generate investor interest, they need to finally rebuild some buzz around their distribution."
They need to find a buyer soon? Umm... they are currently acquiring other companies. http://in.sys-con.com/read/281657.htm I don't think that someone who merges with Conectiva first, then buys Lycoris, then makes some new deals in France in Latin America and aquires now Linbox FAS needs to find a buyer soon.
50 • Re: Boohoo you pirate (by Misty on 2006-10-09 20:04:44 GMT from United States)
Sharing GPL software, whether you paid for it or not, is in no way piracy or illegal. That's part of the beauty of open source. If you don't understand that, go back to Windows or Mac. They'd love your attitude, especially considering they can tell you doing something is piracy even if it actually isn't and you'd believe them.
51 • PCLinuxOS is currently @ KDE 3.5.3. (by Jose on 2006-10-09 20:06:45 GMT from Puerto Rico)
If you bother to use the synaptic package manager and do a dist-upgrade, your KDE version will be 3.5.5
So yes, PCLinuxOS is currently using KDE 3.5.5
52 • Ubuntu CE (by Anonymous on 2006-10-09 20:21:14 GMT from United States)
>I think we no more need religious based distros than we need race
> or gender or sexual orientation focused distributions.
I can't wait for the holy cyberwars after the Ubuntu Jihad edition comes out.
Instead of the GPL, what if a GCL (General Christian License) starts becoming popular? You can only use this software if you are a Christian. Don't think it can happen?
> Who is it for people to say what can and can't be done with free open source software?
> Why can a distribution be created for a unique purpose if it relates to something > technological,
> but if it is something that you 'personally' don't believe in, that it is not OK? That
> is just propagating hate.
Fighting against ignorance != propagating hate
53 • Why is VectorLinux worth looking at? (by Gaslight Joe on 2006-10-09 20:35:51 GMT from United States)
I recently downloaded the VL-5.1.1-std-LIVE.iso with intentions to replace Knoppix's ugly desktop with the elegant and easy-to-read VectorLinux which gives you xfce4 right from the beginning, but I did not because it's network configuration script stinks! It could not find my generic PRISM wireless card or my linksys access point. No network; no sale.
To be fair, my wireless card is eth1, not eth0, but the system should have seen it. Knoppix had no trouble. Oh, I forgot, Knoppix arguably has the best hardware detection of any live cd.
The other irritating thing was a script that purported to install the system on your hard drive without writing it to a cdrom. It might have worked fine if had not been trying to put it on my root drive, but you can't do that. The target partition must be unmounted and the iso must be placed on a different partition. If that other partition cannot be booted, you cannot execute the script. I have installed dozens of linux versions, but it took me a while to see that I could not make work.
Its excellent usb automounting was one rest that I thought to try it, but the networking failures broke my will.
I would think two about this one.
54 • What? (by SimoneDice on 2006-10-09 21:01:09 GMT from United States)
Fighting against ignorance != propagating hate
In regards to #52, how can you say that a personal opinion that people should not start distributions based on religion is fighting ignorance? Please indicate where you are fighting ignorance.
I believe you and your comment is more ignorant by stating that you are fighting ignorance!
Lookup what ignorance means and then get back to us. Well, let's be nice and give it to you. Ignorance is a word to represent lack of knowledge. Stating that you don't like Christian, religious, or any other types of distributions is not fighting ignorance rather it is showing ignorance. What you might be doing is stating your opinion.
On the other hand, based on the definition of hate, which is included below, it seems to me that you dislike intensely that there is a Christian edition of Ubuntu. As the definition of hate suggests, your comments suggest a hateful stance.
to dislike somebody or something intensely, often in a way that evokes feelings of anger, hostility, or animosity
For reference: http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/hate.html
55 • No subject (by mika hack on 2006-10-09 21:13:58 GMT from Italy)
56 • Computing is binary, people are not (by warpengu on 2006-10-09 21:34:52 GMT from Canada)
A person or thing with ubuntu is, according to Archbishop Desmond Tutu, "open and available to others, affirming of others, does not feel threatened that others are able and good, for he or she has a proper self-assurance that comes from knowing that he or she belongs in a greater whole and is diminished when others are humiliated or diminished, when others are tortured or oppressed."
Now that is very nice and I don't see how anyone could argue against that.
Of course Archbishop Desmond Tutu is hardly a paragon of virtue and Christianity has done some horrific things in the name of God. I suspect that is why some people dislike Ubuntu CE and Icthiux.
Maybe we should say no u.ser's may create any Ubuntu derivatives as that country does not follow the spirit of Ubuntu. We would not want to label all u.ser's as vitrioloic hateful people just because they invade and destroy other peoples countries would we? So let the christians have there own distro and the good people who follow that practice can use Gnu/Linux as well as the evil ones. We may not like it but that's the way it is.
57 • OpenSuse = crap (by Magister_di_parte on 2006-10-09 21:36:42 GMT from Canada)
What Ted Haeger is aiming to tell you is: don't try OpenSuse, it's not rock solid. It has all kind of flaws evidently made for the purpose of making you switch to $LED. Bed Rat tried the same with the first versions of Fedora.
So, if you're really into using open source software from stupid awkward inefficient multinational corporations, unless you're into spending weeks fixing OpenSuse so that it behaves like SLED, its patched version, wait for Suse to come to its senses.
Otherwise, use Slackware or Debian (derived) OS: they provide the patches without asking you to pay for them.
58 • Mandrake buys what? (by Magister_di_parte on 2006-10-09 21:54:13 GMT from Canada)
"They need to find a buyer soon? Umm... they are currently acquiring other companies. http://in.sys-con.com/read/281657.htm I don't think that someone who merges with Conectiva first, then buys Lycoris, then makes some new deals in France in Latin America and aquires now Linbox FAS needs to find a buyer soon."
Merging doesn't cost a red euro: they exchanged shares worth nothing against shares worth nothing. To buy Lycoris, they offered Joseph Cheek a job. As for linbox, I have no idea. As I've never heard about this distro, I can only suspect it's the same kind of deal.
I wouldn't spend 50¢ on a CD and five minutes to test Connectidrake anymore. This distro has been ruined by incompetent jerks.
59 • mandriva.. eh.. sabayon better (by random guy on 2006-10-09 22:06:33 GMT from United States)
well mandriva was my first distro a year ago. was bugged up like crazy, i remember i couldnt use the menu editor for the start menu at all. they had some good "extra" software though that i guess i would want now... too bad sabayon is so good or else i would give mandriva another chance for at least a day...
60 • No subject (by lmierzej on 2006-10-09 22:11:53 GMT from Poland)
I'm sorry, but Mandriva is a mess... :(
61 • Alright, if you absolutely *must* bring religion into operating systems... (by UZ64 on 2006-10-09 22:14:33 GMT from United States)
I'm still waiting for a distro just for us who are impatiently awaiting our arrival to Hell for betraying and outright cursing every god ever made up by mankind.
Hey, if you have to segregate computer users, why stop at Christians? There's also Satanism, Atheism, Buddhism, and countless others.
The world of computers will not be complete until these morons have preached their pointless religion to every single person on the face of the planet. Too bad the Internet makes such a good vessel for this poison to corrupt even more people. Sad... truly sad.
62 • Thanks to Nate, AC, and raskolnikov (by IMQ on 2006-10-09 22:27:57 GMT from United States)
Appreciate your comments on the 64-bit thingy.
Once I put together a 64-bit PC, I will try out all the 64-bit distros out there. Just for fun!
63 • Debian "etch" will positively rock! (by Anonymous on 2006-10-09 23:03:54 GMT from Finland)
How long has it been since the "sarge" release? 14 months or so?
There is no doubt that Debian has really come a really long way since the "sarge" release and they haven't got where they are now, with the upcoming "etch" release, by just quarrelling with each other. It has taken a massive amount of hard work and collaboration with other developers. Hopefully people will come to realize this when "etch" is finally released.
Before "sarge" was released, Debian "woody" came with an installer that was essentially just a set of floppy discs and people generally agreed that Debian was very difficult to install back in those days. This was the time when the Ubuntu project was started and Ubuntu took the development version of Debian's new installer and introduced a snapshot of Debian unstable with X.org and the latest GNOME. There was a huge difference between Debian "woody" and Ubuntu, and the inevitable comparisons between these two distros gave Ubuntu the best possible advertisement it could get. People generally agreed that Ubuntu was "Debian done right".
Actually "sarge" wasn't that bad when compared to Ubuntu, but Debian had so much trouble getting the release out that people just got tired of waiting and started switching to other distros. Meanwhile, Ubuntu made regular new releases every 6 months and only got better with each new release. Then, when "sarge" was finally released, it was already a bit outdated. The several delays in "sarge's" release also slowed down the development in Debian unstable and at that time even Debian unstable seemed to fall behind Ubuntu's rapid development speed. It really started to look like Debian was getting old and too tired to compete with the younger challengers.
But when "sarge" was finally out the door, things started to immediately brighten up in the Debian camp. There was the switch from XFree86 to X.org (soon followed by the modular X.org), there was the big ABI transition from GCC 3.4 to 4, and then Debian reached LSB 3.1 compliance, and numerous other new and exciting things found their way into Debian "unstable" in a very short time. Of course, Ubuntu was the first to introduce the fruits of Debian's labour, like the AMD64 port, secure APT and many other new shiny things. Nevertheless, it currently looks like Debian "etch" will be more up to date, more advanced and reaching higher overall quality than Ubuntu's "enterprise" release with long term support, Dapper Drake. Debian "etch" will probably be the most bleeding-edge stable release that Debian has ever produced.
And it is very ironic that this is the exact time -- when Debian "etch" is just about to be released -- that some journalists start actively reporting every possible insignificant disagreement that they can spot in the mailing lists and then they, of course, proceed to draw the conclusion that Debian is declining, possibly dying. Well, just you wait until Debian "etch" is released. Then we'll see if Debian can still be considered to be in trouble.
Meanwhile, you can take a quick peek at an (incomplete) list of the new features that "etch" will offer: http://wiki.debian.org/NewInEtch
64 • RE: Debian "etch" will positively rock! (by Béranger on 2006-10-09 23:17:24 GMT from Romania)
>>it currently looks like Debian "etch" will be more up to date
Nay. GNOME 2.14.2.
>>some journalists start actively reporting every possible insignificant disagreement
Nope. Not insignificant.
But of course, if Mandriva hasn't died, how could Debian die?
I only wonder if they're Debian Developers of stupid politicians...
65 • Religious Distros...??? (by JAG on 2006-10-09 23:41:16 GMT from United States)
I wouldn't recommend any distro...under the authority of any church or denomination...they're probably unaware that GOD has left the churches (as taught in the BIBLE)...and 'guess who' is ruling there now...? [Can this be true?...][Check it out for yourself...]
Caution...The following links are HARD CORE CHRISTIANITY!
The End of the Church Age...and After (3rd listing/main library)
(pick a month then pick a date then download Q&A files)
66 • RE: 53 Why is VectorLinux worth looking at? (by ladislav on 2006-10-09 23:57:51 GMT from Taiwan)
I also had trouble with networking on some of the previous VectorLinux versions. But when I installed 5.8 yesterday, I was pleasantly surprised that everything, including networking, worked great from the start. I didn't spend much time playing with it, but my first impressions were definitely positive.
67 • RE: # 56 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-10-10 00:00:13 GMT from Italy)
"Of course Archbishop Desmond Tutu is hardly a paragon of virtue and Christianity has done some horrific things in the name of God. I suspect that is why some people dislike Ubuntu CE and Icthiux."
Like what? Like raping and killing children? Like invading countries and causing untold misery?
It seems to me that Archbishop Desmond Tutu has only a message of love to share and he is trying to suggest the Catholic Church to enter the 21st century, something they stubbornly refuse to do: believe an Italian about it.
68 • No more talk about religion, please (by ladislav on 2006-10-10 00:06:03 GMT from Taiwan)
Guys, please don't ruin the forum for everybody with off-topic posts. If you want to talk religion, then do it somewhere else. From now on, all posts that don't discuss distributions, open source software, etc will be deleted.
69 • Pardus, Good and Bad... (by towsonu2003 on 2006-10-10 00:12:50 GMT from United States)
I spent a couple of hours trying out Pardus (www.pardus.org.tr) thru vmware. The installation was a breeze: I had to answer only 4 questions, and Pardus was booting ready to be used :) The usability was great. The gui utilities were very nice, and the artwork was good (except the very unhappy/angry tiger icon Pardus uses for itself). Nothing less than Ubuntu in usability and ease of use.
Bad stuff (the stuff that made me just quit the distro altogether without further testing):
1. The overall negative approach of the developers to bug reporters: During a couple of hours' use, I reported more than 10 bugs, none of them dupes (four or so were already fixed in the next development release not available to me at the time). Being someone used to the Ubuntu way of triaging bugs (i.e. "Thank your for your bug. We appreciate your effort to help us."), the negative responses really irritated me. I even filed a bug report on it at http://bugs.pardus.org.tr/show_bug.cgi?id=3605 so that they implement a "Code of Conduct" like Ubuntu has. Nothing changed (bug got closed as well) so I removed the vmware image from my disk.
2. The negative approach to language support (specifically, Kurdish lang support): during the installation, I noticed that I didn't get a nice selection of supported languages. So I filed a bug for more language support at http://bugs.pardus.org.tr/show_bug.cgi?id=3592. The report included a number of languages to be supported such as English, French etc. Kurdish was also included in this report: yup, no Kurdish support. And a fascist flame in the mean time... And weirdly enough, for each bug report I filed after this one, the treatment I got was worse than the one I got before filing this bug!
This is a very nice distro that can be used in the Turkish everyday life, and the Turkish government seems to be interested in using it (reportedly, all government computers will switch to Pardus in the future, starting with the army recruitment offices).
However, it is not ready for the end-user yet, especially if the user asks for more than what is given to him/her...
70 • Re. 68 (by UZ64 on 2006-10-10 00:34:25 GMT from United States)
See, that's just what happens when bringing religion into computing, or Linux, or anything. Two such distros making the database (and at least one of them which bribed its way to the top with money) are just the fuel to the fire. Add a few more... and there probably will be an all-out war on differing religious views, taking away from what really matters: how well they let you get real, practical work done. But yeah, I'm done on the subject. Just annoyed that you could take bribe money to add a controversial distro (or two) and then complain about the off-topic complaints you could have probably seen coming from a mile away.
71 • RE: 70 (by ladislav on 2006-10-10 01:08:04 GMT from Taiwan)
Firstly, the developer of Ubuntu Christian Edition bought advertising on DistroWatch. If you want to think about it as "bribe money", suit yourself. But it was a legitimate advertisement for a Linux product and I saw no reason for turning it down.
Secondly, I honestly find it hard to accept that a CD with a few million lines of source code would stir so much religious hate talk on this forum. Ubuntu Christian Edition and Ichthux are nothing but Linux distributions, for crying out loud! Please look at them as free operating systems that you can install on your computers and not as instruments that can be used as an excuse to start a religious war on a Linux forum!
If you have an opinion about Ubuntu Christian Edition or Ichthux, feel free to express them here. If you have an opinion about a religion, then take it to some other forum.
72 • Whats going on here (by Andrew on 2006-10-10 02:03:38 GMT from Canada)
why you are cutting down religion at all is beyond me, the only thing that everyone does here is cut down the writer. If you're going to do that just leave. Turn off you computer spend some time with your children and other. Enjoy life, there is so much more to it then Linux
73 • a good kde distro (by Andrew on 2006-10-10 02:06:49 GMT from Canada)
on another note, I'm looking for a distro that has auto hardware detection and provides a kde that is pretty close to the to the libs provided on kde.org. Kind of like slackware or debian
74 • OS as Religion (by Robert_G on 2006-10-10 02:12:44 GMT from United States)
After reading all the posts about this new religion thing, I'm so confused. I thought that which OS one runs *IS* one's religion. Where are all the wonderful flame wars of old: Windows vs OS/2, VMS vs Unix, Mac vs.Windows, Linux vs everything else. Those were the good ol' days.
75 • Linux gets Jesus / Jesus gets Linux (by Sam Quinn on 2006-10-10 02:22:43 GMT from United States)
Since the last time I posted was on the release of the Gnome variety of a Christianized Ubuntu, now I'm posting on the release of the KDE variety of a Christianized Kubuntu, I have a quick thought that could maybe bring me some good karma -
Why can't we take a very Buddhist approach to this?
Just sit back and be mindful
as each religious-themed,
(hey Irish Linux -- penguins meet Guiness!)
as it appears,
I thought the freedom to create, choose, and redevelop is part of this "free market" software approach that is Linux.
76 • Fast Women and Religion (by big fat geek on 2006-10-10 02:25:04 GMT from United States)
If you like fast women, don't overlook Kate... very nice job on 3.1
The jury is still out on whether Kate is my religion or not. Or is Linux the religion, and Kate a sect? Kate is a "sectsy" distro.
77 • No more Religious OS at the main list! (by iMoron on 2006-10-10 02:58:53 GMT from Puerto Rico)
I think you, Layslav, need to think it over a bit about the religious OS and of what can you do about it because I think this will not be the last time you will see a flame war about it here...
Let me try and demostrate why I think you should place this OS at the related links section...
First: Sadly religion is in no ways unanimous, prety much sectarian by nature...
Second: The simple mention of a trivial Distro and Religion is bound to generate comments of undesireble content...
And tird: Unlike Linux (*BSD) ideal of better computing, this systems are to close to been propaganda to some extent... and ultimatly will generate other religious based systems to appear just to counter one and other... It will not be prety!
Even if the intentions are good from those who develop said systems I feel it is imperative that such distributions be placed at the "Related Links" section!
Besides... what they are addying are apps that they find useful and can be added easily to any system!
... I, for one, feel extremely presured on my day to day hearing about religion. For me to arive here and find this kind os discusions is rather depresive, for a lot of reasons...
By the way, Atheism is not a religion!
I'm a Bright, and an Atheist... I respect others believes. But I would like not to see any reference to religion be discuse herein... in no shape or form.
I must add, the neat thing about computers is that everybody is a user, we all can communicate and not worry about who or about what anyone thinks... Adding religion to computing at the OS level can, and will, generate segregation just base on ideals that have nothing to do with computing...
Please Ladislav, consider puting this distros at the "Related Links" section. It is OK if they get banner space, and info pages (though I feel that news about them should be like with every thing over at the "Related Links" section, no news at all to avoid discutions!)...
... Hope some agree...
78 • Debian (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-10-10 03:02:13 GMT from Italy)
RE: #63: Excellent analysis!
"Nay. GNOME 2.14.2."
Who cares? After all SUSE 10.1 has only Gnome 2.12. And in any case Gnome 2.16 is already entering experimental.
79 • RE: 77 No more Religious OS at the main list! (by ladislav on 2006-10-10 03:14:44 GMT from Taiwan)
OK, I'll repeat it one more time: Ubuntu Christian Edition is a Linux distribution. It is designed to run on your computer and allows you to accomplish the usual computing tasks, such as web browsing, office work, image editing, etc. Please accept it for what it is and don't try to pass it on as something it isn't and never intended to be.
Now repeat after me: Ubuntu Christian Edition is a Linux distribution, not a religion. Ubuntu Christian Edition is a Linux distribution, not a religion. Ubuntu Christian Edition is a Linux distribution, not a religion....
This is my final word on the subject.
80 • Well then... (by iMoron on 2006-10-10 03:31:39 GMT from Puerto Rico)
OK... I know am not to fluent at getting my part understud...
But it wont be prety when this happens again... and more distros apear like those two... mark my words!
Though I promise this is the first and last time I mention anything of it...
I was just saying...
* it wont be prety *
81 • Look out side the box you live in ladislav (by Anonymous on 2006-10-10 03:47:37 GMT from Australia)
I would prefer if we as the Linux community were able to avoid any possible religious antagonism of other religions and their followers, by not having Chrstian Religion Distros rammed down their throats by the Christians being the only one premoting their religion, and ESPECIALLY by being given publicity at DW.
With the present religious conflict happening arround the world, the promotion of one flavour of religion only would seem to me to just INFLAME the situation (no matter how innocent the developers and premoters may have intended their distro to be)
RE: 77 - they are exclusively premoting one religion - that is the problem
Long live religious tollerance and not religious exclusiveness
82 • Re. 80 (by UZ64 on 2006-10-10 04:04:05 GMT from United States)
"OK... I know am not to fluent at getting my part understud..."
Hey, you made perfect sense to me, I agree 100%. Well said.
It's a losing battle though, he seems to have made his mind, all we can do now is wait for the religious war to start in the distro world. We know it's destined to happen... unfortunately.
83 • Sigh... (by 1c3d0g on 2006-10-10 04:11:12 GMT from Aruba)
#36: it's the reason why you're still in the U.K. and your ancestors who were hunted down moved to a better place. Some day you'll realize this and join the real world, until then, what you said is rubbish.
#43: well fucking said.
#81: why in God's name do you believe "Christian Religious Distrs" are "rammed down people's throats"? What is it with you people? Can't you just respect someone else's faith (whatever that may be) and leave it alone? Christ!
84 • re 80: you can verify there is no propaganda in UCE (by dbrion on 2006-10-10 04:17:45 GMT from France)
Games are classical games you can find anywhere in Linux;
(there was demand for less neutral games).
The rest is an _adult_ matter, who can easier whithstand propaganda -if any- (I think things are fair, if one wants to study The bible, one has it).
85 • Other promising Mandriva Signs (by Odysseus on 2006-10-10 04:43:07 GMT from New Zealand)
1) They posted a message on the Club explaining why the 64 release had been delayed, so communications seem to be improving (yes comms had been that bad that a simple thing like this had Club members falling over in shock).
2) A build error on the Club CD's saw a couple of vital packages like RPMdrake missed off CD's 1-4 that were available to the Bronze club members. Instead of re-mastering and making people download those CD's again, they simply made CD's 5-6 available to them as well. While some Silver members were a little p'ed off about that, it shows they were thinking a bit more about the community over their bottom line.
And least I come off as a Mandriva fan-boy, I'm glad they finally got the release out 3 days before my silver club membership expired, as I wasn't planning to renew. I at least got some moneys worth from my last 12 months investment.
86 • Pardus... (by Anil on 2006-10-10 05:02:26 GMT from Turkey)
Pardus, as an independently developed Linux distro has great potential. There are many innovations there, like new init system, unique packaging and a comprehensive daemon (Comar) to manage all configuration issues. Although, there are some flaws, there are no showstoppers and some (like Pardus logo) are just developer's preferences.
@#69, I think, you are giving them a hard time and that is not deserved. Said replies to your bug reports are not fascist flames, but reactions to your meaningless request. A distro, created by a government agency primarily for use throughout Turkey (and with an obvious ambition to reach abroad now) does not need to have an installation language for French, Arabic and most importantly Kurdish. English is more than adequate for Pardus team's international ambitions. More than one "foreign" language is just overkill.. And developers state that clearly.
And to tell you the truth, my feelings about your bugreports and your post here seems to have the intention of making only one point. You use French and Arabic as smokescreens for your main intention of promoting Kurdish as an installation language. It is fine, as long as it draws attention to Pardus. But please do not bring your political agenda into Linux community, how elegant it may look to you...
87 • About religious oriented distributions (by ladislav on 2006-10-10 05:15:18 GMT from Taiwan)
I've been considering some of the arguments against the two Christian distributions that were made here, but I still have hard time agreeing with them. Here are my reasons:
1. As I said before, I consider UCE and Ichthux legitimate Linux distributions - they are built on top of a Linux kernel, include glibc, X.Org, KDE/GNOME, OpenOffice.org, Firefox, etc., just like most other distributions. Now some people are calling for their ban from DistroWatch. On what basis? Because they also happen to include a Bible study program? How many other distributions ship those too? Should I also ban Debian because it lists BibleTime and GnomeSword in its repositories? This logic doesn't make sense to me.
2. I don't see any evidence that either UCE or Ichthux are trying to PROMOTE a religion (as argued in post 81). It's possible that I missed it somewhere, so please let me know if this is the case. What I do see, however, is a product designed for a particular group of people. I can easily imagine that there are religious organisations stuck on an older version of Windows and worrying about the next upgrade. Now they have a choice - a couple of beautiful operating systems they can boot directly from a CD and be productive straight away. And they even get a few Bible study programs thrown in as a bonus! I really can't understand why so many people find something wrong with this concept!
It is possible that we'll have to endure a few more flame wars over these kinds of distributions - not because there is something wrong with them, but because some people take them for something that they are not. As long as they don't promote religious intolerance or incite hatred, I'd have hard time justifying their removal from DistroWatch. On the contrary, there are great many people who would benefit from these projects and I believe it should be our goal to promote them among these groups, rather than ban them.
As always, I am open to different view points. But if you want me to remove UCE and Ichthux from DistroWatch, you guys need to present a lot more convincing arguments than what you've done so far.
88 • Ubuntu CE -- Trademark Violation? (by Harry Fulkerson on 2006-10-10 05:44:11 GMT from United States)
"A distro that caters only to Christians is not Ubuntu, especially when the Ubuntu logo is surrounded by an Ichthys (Jesus Fish) which is used by Christians to identify a business that will only do business with other Christians."
What planet are you from? A business that will only do business with other christians? Christiadom is open to EVERYONE, not just other christians.
I did not know there was anyone who did not know that.
89 • No subject (by AC on 2006-10-10 05:52:41 GMT from United States)
Ladislav, if you've noted my comments on the subject, you know I am ambivalent about the Ubuntu CE issue. I think the one valid argument was the argument from triviality - that the distro adds nothing significant and doesn't merit a separate page. But you addressed that a few weeks back by spelling out your criteria for counting a distro as a separate entity.
As for promoting intolerance or even promoting religion, I honestly fail to see it. It seems to me that Ubuntu CE is, rather, using religion to promote GNU/Linux. Were I a Christian, I might well be offended by that, not wishing to see my faith used in marketing. But I am not, so my hypothetical offense is irrelevant.
Does anyone honestly believe that a single person will convert to Christianity because of a GNU/Linux distribution? I find it highly unlikely. Does anyone think hate crimes will be inspired by it? I doubt it, though I've noted snide and intolerant remarks from people on both sides of the debate. But we get snide remarks about all sorts of topics here, including a wish that Debian developers kill each other off (#4) and the religiously tinged, "God spare us from that horrible distro," (#7) also regarding Debian. Should this distro be removed because it arouses hateful speech? Hardly!
I find the notion of religion-based distributions absurd and unnecessary. But then, I could say the same about the continued existence of Slackware. Isn't it wonderful that we can all have choice?
90 • Religious oriented distros (by ecwx on 2006-10-10 06:18:56 GMT from Indonesia)
Good points ladislav, I'm not christian myself, but I don't hate them, and I don't mind their promoting their religion either. If you happen to believe that something is good, it is just natural that you will try to promote it.
But I realy don't think religion flavored linux realy are forcing -or even promoting - religions to anybody, nor do they prohibit non-believers to use it either. They are not forcing you to install the distro don't they, nor do they sue you when you are a non-believer and you use the distro.
I see it more like a community oriented distro, like arabian-linux (which coincidentally also based on ubuntu), or specific use oriented distro, like edubuntu, GEOLivre Linux.
Anyway, If you don't want to, nobody will force you to install it. If you wan to use it, you can use it even if you're not christian. If you don't like the news about the distro. you don't have to read it. If you don't like DW to list it, nobody force you to visit DW.
91 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-10-10 06:40:28 GMT from Canada)
22 • KDE 3.5.5 PCLinuxOS
""BTW, PCLinuxOS is also one of the distros with KDE 3.5.5".
PCLinuxOS is currently @ KDE 3.5.3."
PCLinuxOS has KDE 3.5.5 in unstable just like Debian Sid.
92 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-10-10 08:26:12 GMT from Iran, Islamic Republic of)
Why does every single DSW comment section explode into an argument about ubuntu CE? Come on and be reasonable! Zenwalk has flawed package management, ubuntu CE is only flawed from top to bottom minus the package management! Doesn't get much simpler than that.
93 • RE: 64 [RE: Debian "etch" will positively rock! (by Béranger)] (by Anonymous on 2006-10-10 12:45:15 GMT from Finland)
Your facts are incorrect, Mr Béranger. These are the actual version numbers in "dapper" and "etch" (taken from the DistroWatch pages of these distros):
Package Ubuntu "dapper" Debian "etch"
abiword 2.4.4 2.4.5
alsa-lib 1.0.10 1.0.12
amarok 1.3.9 1.4.1
apache -- 1.3.34
bind 9.3.2 9.3.2
cdrtools 2.01.01a01 1.0~pre4 (wodim, not cdrtools)
cups 1.2.0 1.2.4
db 4.3.29 4.3.29
dhcp 3.0.3 3.0.4
emacs 21.4a 21.4a
evolution 2.6.1 2.6.3
firefox 22.214.171.124 126.96.36.199
gaim 1.5.0 1.5.0
gcc 4.0.3 4.1.1
gimp 2.2.11 2.2.13
glibc 2.3.6 2.3.6
gnucash -- 2.0.1
gnumeric 1.6.3 1.6.3
gtk+ 2.8.17 2.8.20
httpd 2.0.55 2.0.55
iptables 1.3.3 188.8.131.52debian1
k3b 0.12.14 0.12.17
kdebase 3.5.2 3.5.4
kdewebdev 3.5.2 3.4.3
koffice 1.5.0 1.5.2
libgnome 2.14.1 2.14.1
linux 2.6.15 2.6.17
module-init-tools 3.2.2 3.2.2
mono 184.108.40.206 220.127.116.11
MPlayer -- --
mysql 5.0.21 5.0.24a
nautilus 2.14.1 2.14.3
OpenOffice.org 2.0.2 2.0.4~rc3
openssh 4.2p1 4.3p2
openssl 0.9.8a 0.9.8c
perl 5.8.7 5.8.8
php 5.1.2 5.1.6
postfix 2.2.10 2.3.3
postgresql 8.1.3 8.1.4
Python 2.4.3 2.4.3
qt-X11 3.3.6 --
samba 3.0.22 3.0.23c
seamonkey -- --
sendmail -- 8.13.8
thunderbird 18.104.22.168 22.214.171.124
udev 079 100
vim 6.4 7.0
webmin -- --
xfce -- 126.96.36.199
xine-lib 1.1.1 1.1.2
xinetd 2.3.14 2.3.14
xorg 7.0 7.0.22
Conclusion: "dapper" loses and "etch" wins!
But the actual point of my post was that Ubuntu had such a huge lead and now that Debian has just caught up with Ubuntu, some incompetent journalists (I can see that you took this personally, Mr Béranger ;) have suddenly started saying that Debian developers spend all their time quarreling instead of coding. That is absolutely rubbish!
Disputes in mailing lists are insignificant as long as the actual *technical* work gets done, and it seems that Debian is in a pretty fine shape when you bother to look at the actual results that they've achieved.
94 • RE: 93 • RE: 64 [RE: Debian "etch" will positively rock! (by Béranger)] (by Anon (by Béranger on 2006-10-10 13:37:45 GMT from Romania)
Don't fsck with me, Anonymous Coward!
I do NOT (I repeat: "I do NOT") support Ubuntu, so you're peeing at the wrong gate.
I ONLY stated that Etch will NOT have GNOME 2.16 in December. I don't care about experimental, I don't care about Ubuntu, I only stated that "Etch testing" and the upcoming "Etch stable" have not / will have not 2.16.
As for SuSE, GNOME 2.12 is the worst choice. If anyone, in their way from 2.8, 2.10, ..., 2.14, 2.16, can skip 2.12, it would be a good idea.
95 • How about a script instead of a distro? (by octathlon on 2006-10-10 13:49:31 GMT from United States)
As I said earlier, I see nothing wrong with a Christian-oriented distro, as long as they don't use the word Ubuntu in the name since it sound like it's sponsored or created by Ubuntu. But having a distro customized for this large group is good for promoting Linux, not a bad thing.
As to the argument that it isn't "really" a distro, that has some merit because it just adds a few packages to Ubuntu. I have felt for a long time that in situations like this, instead of creating a new distro, a better solution is to provide a script similar to Automatix that automatically installs the packages, theme, wallpaper, etc. to customize the Distro for the target community. It would cut down on the number of "trivial" distros and be a lot less work for the maintainers.
96 • No subject (by Henrik on 2006-10-10 14:26:39 GMT from Sweden)
I was a Mandrake user 5 years ago, liked it then, but now, I will never move away from apt (never say never :)) im testing out Nexenta with the opensolaris architect (it rocks, cant wait to see it out of alpha stage) anyways good luck to The Mandriva project
97 • UCE is name confusing (by Taishi on 2006-10-10 14:48:58 GMT from United States)
I have no problem with "Christian" distros. Good luck to them. There is a name confusion though. No problem with Ichthux's distro, I think it is a good name. But Ubuntu Christian Edition implies support by Ubuntu. You have to dig to figure out it is not supported by Ubuntu. Keep up the good work but please rename
98 • Good stand, Ladislav (@87) (by Anonymous on 2006-10-10 15:02:23 GMT from United States)
Ladislav, thank you for holding your ground. It seems that much of the argument against UCE is "folks will disagree too much". I like how you aren't letting that sway your position. You're right - it's a distro for a specific target audience; folks may not agree with the target audience, but that shouldn't "disallow" the distro.
It's your site, your rules. Your rules have proven good so far (apparently Distrowatch is *very* popular!), you have no reason to change.
Thanks for a great site!
99 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-10-10 15:45:35 GMT from United Kingdom)
If any distro would like to be blessed by an open source deity
I am empowered by the power of Cecil to offer this facility
Our symbol is the triple dorje (Existence/non-existence/none of the above)
ahem . . . sorry Ladislav . . . I was compelled "by the force" to offer this.
. . . and now back to the distros. Just been trying Sabayon. I think it requires some serious hardware. Does it? Gonna try again to get Beryl working - the GPL screen savers are luvly on my sisters Nvidia set up - wonder if it will work with my in built Savage chip set.
If you have never tried Gentoo, this might offer weeks of fiddling and tweaking . . . It did not even recognise my AOC LCD monitor but a trip to the f1 special boot features fixed that. It seems very cutting edge and maybe a bit raw because of that. I think you might find it fun. Anything named after an Italian pudding has got to be tasty . . . Nice job guys :)
100 • Here we go again..... (by Scott Wilson on 2006-10-10 16:02:01 GMT from United States)
I think it is absolute funny that how the reader comments usally have nothing to do with on whats in Distrowatch weekly.
I think some how, Ladisalv needs to control the post. If its not related to the feature this week it doent get posted. Bythe way I think DIstrowatch should get th e next donation!
JUst to add fuel to the fire Im downloading Ubuntu CE and Ichthux, as well as hitting the page thru the list just to prop up their numbers.
101 • # 76, thanks for the news (by dbrion on 2006-10-10 17:02:28 GMT from France)
As Kate OS seems to be crafted for little, cheap PC, I was very happy to notice from the Kate OS page it supports unimportant azrty keyboards during install.. No disk space to cross check (vmware is perfect for such little PC, but would bias Sabayon...)
102 • Future of ReiserFS (by AC on 2006-10-11 04:26:40 GMT from United States)
Hans Reiser arrested for murder. If he's convicted will IBM, Novell, et al finish Reiser4?
103 • Ubuntu Firefox (by AC on 2006-10-11 04:30:01 GMT from United States)
Will Ubuntu ship IceWeasel or Firefox?
"We presently have working relationships with most of the major Linux distributions, including Red Hat, Novell, and Ubuntu."
More reason to wonder about Ubuntu's commitment to Free Software?
104 • Delayed, Delayed (by Scott Wilson on 2006-10-11 05:06:04 GMT from United States)
Wondering out load....
If an version is an experamental cutting edge, why would it be delayed? After all wahts thepiont of a constant release if its never ready?
105 • Wow I blew that one! (by Scott Wilson on 2006-10-11 05:31:43 GMT from United States)
I guess I should proof read a little more before I submit the post.
106 • Ubuntu CE (by Anonymous on 2006-10-11 06:39:13 GMT from United States)
"Christian Edition"?? What's next, "RedHat... *Amish Edition*"? Complete with a kernel and a shell.
107 • Ubuntu CE (by maslot on 2006-10-11 07:19:38 GMT from Poland)
I don't think that discusion about UCE is against religion. It's about difference between real distribution with hard working developers and distribution with some packages added. Is it possible that distrowatch will add Ubuntu Midnight Commander Edition (how can it be possible that any main stream distribution doesn't include mc? Shame on you, Ubuntu :-))?
108 • 107 (by AC on 2006-10-11 08:19:57 GMT from United States)
I agree completely about midnight commander. Recall a slew of security flaws in mc awhile back and Ubuntu didn't provide security patches for it as it was in Universe.
I also agree about the triviality of Ubuntu CE. However, ladislav has his criteria: website, et al, and appears to apply them consistently. So, best to let it go.
109 • DIE SLACK DIE (by Max on 2006-10-11 09:20:33 GMT from Brazil)
Any "JUST RELEASED" distro still releasing a 2.4 kernel should die a slow and painful death....
DIE SLACK DIE!!!!
Couldnt help myself....
110 • Being a dick again (by Max on 2006-10-11 09:42:07 GMT from Brazil)
I just had an idea
Im going to release a super stable slackware based 2.2 kernel distro called Ubuntu KKK Edition
111 • RE: 109 DIE SLACK DIE (by ladislav on 2006-10-11 09:57:03 GMT from Taiwan)
Well, just imagine that you are a system administrator who has been happily running a Slackware server on an old machine for years. The machine works well and you see no reason for spending money to buy a new one. Suddenly, Slackware announces that it will no longer support the 2.4 kernel so you have no other option than buying a more modern box for your server.
Would that make you happy? Do you believe that Linux developers should follow the same pattern as Microsoft and drop support for older hardware after each new release?
Next time please think twice before posting a stupid comment like you just did.
112 • 111 (by AC on 2006-10-11 10:47:54 GMT from United States)
Hey I needle Slackware, but ladislav is quite right. I am very disappointed Etch won't ship 2.4
113 • RE 111 (by Max on 2006-10-11 11:23:34 GMT from Brazil)
I know my comment was stupid
On 110 I titled my comment "Being a dick again"
Its just that I really dislike Slackware and I just felt like saying so...
I wasnt aware that the 2.6 kernel has lesser hardware support than 2.4. Does it really? If anything i thought 2.6 would run faster on older hardware.
Problem is linux is moving ahead. 2.6 has udev, better threading, scheduler etc. I feel Volkerdink is not with the spirit of Free Software, GPL etc. He doesnt share the development of the distro, but at the same time he is extremely slow at doing anything. Just have a look at his website. Why bother releasing a new version of Slackware? I havent touched Slack in years but I guess version 11 would be hardly any different from 10... The packages got updated but so what? Attitudes like dropping Gnome really annoys me. Why couldnt he just let someone else compile Gnome for him if he doesnt wanna do it?
I see the Slackware spirit as the opposite of Debian. On Debian people share, argue and fight but what comes out is a beautiful product. With Volkerdink all you get are his stuborn-arse one-man decisions.
Just think of the Linux kernel. If Torvals had the same attitude as Pat, Linux would still be a Pet univerisity project....
114 • Hans Reiser arrested (by Max on 2006-10-11 11:33:48 GMT from Brazil)
Anyway, have you guys seen this?
115 • Ladislav (by Max on 2006-10-11 11:50:43 GMT from Brazil)
On 2.4 vs 2.6 performance
116 • RE: 115 (by ladislav on 2006-10-11 12:02:41 GMT from Taiwan)
Well, if you want to run a 2.6 kernel on your Slackware 11.0 stystem, all you need to do is to choose it during installation. It's not the default, but it's available and is fully supported.
117 • 114 (by AC on 2006-10-11 12:36:08 GMT from United States)
see my post 102
118 • 115 The point of old hardware is not answered (by dbrion on 2006-10-11 12:38:33 GMT from France)
Is a 8 CP 9 G an ordinary old hardware? This link is interesting in itself, for seiousness in tests aimed to 1 (o n e) IT application
119 • New Vector 5.8 (by mikkh on 2006-10-11 13:16:51 GMT from United Kingdom)
In a word fabulous :o)
Love the new splash screen - an ever growing penguin as each module loads, neat
Always liked the login screen too, never fails to impress my windows mates - bless em
The new XFCE looks like KDE, which no doubt upsets a few fans of XFCE, but I think it's a nice touch.
Most distros, I fiddle about with window styles and different desktops and the taskbar especially which either has too many or too few things on it, to get it looking how I want it to look. But this is one of the few distros where I'm happy to use the default look and taskbar
Good selection of games too, pity most won't run fast enough on this Athlon 700 though, but I applaud the effort put into that category, which a lot of distros don't bother with too much
On pressing the browser button in the taskbar for the first time, you're presented with the option of picking the default one from a choice of Firefox, Opera or SeaMonkey - and thereafter you just get the choice you made. Nice :o)
Comes with libdvdcss already installed so encrypted DVD's can be played, it offers to mount a windows share as part of the install, so I had instant access to my MP3 collection.
Found only one minor bug so far, the menu access to 'gslapt' doesn't work, but you can run it via the xterminal.
A big thumbs up to all at Vector - great job people
120 • The Mandrake Club (by werner, cayenne on 2006-10-11 13:53:38 GMT from France)
Try to find now, on the Mandrake home page, a mirror for gratuit download !!! At least, I have no longer success; perhaps its possible to find it after searching long time, and after pass a lot of commercial offers/versions by them, but anyway its not easy to find it as it should be.
With this, they entered into the 'Mandrake Club' -- formed together with SuSE, Novell, and other distros which are from them principle against the principles of Linux, and thus condemned to their own bancrupcy.
Correct and the only possible to survive, is the position that the sistem can be downbloaded gratuitely, and to sell are only the services around. One see by them use of Windows that companies etc. -i.e. those who have money- are willingly to spend some for an op system when they feel thats good to have a stable sistem working good and with garanties and service. What Mandrake is doing in the last time, is exactly the opposite. On one side, they want to cut cut students, poors in the third world, and others with few money or living from the social, from the free use; at the same time, they sell (supposed to be) commercial products which are full of bugs ...
The biggest joke is them 'commercial' server. Look, my box www.genocidefrenchguyana.homeunix.org is running nice with Slackware, administrated by webmin (even with an usermin mail service, and when I would want it, with everything like virtualmin/virtual servers etc etc).
I'm watching still a little whats happening with Mandrake (inclusive searched without success a place for ftp-load the new isos), what I used before (obviously never as principal bystem but as second one sometimes on the side of Slackware), but its obvious thats continuing dying ...
121 • No subject (by werner on 2006-10-11 14:13:38 GMT from France)
@ #102: At least, his file system has murdered already a lot of files mine: perhaps accidentes with reiserfs are more seldom than with ext3 -- but when they happens, then NEVER it was possible to recover something :(
122 • Whom should die (by werner on 2006-10-11 14:26:45 GMT from France)
@109,113: These reclamations are incorrect w.r.t. Slackware, but they fits much better to Kurumin f.ex.. There, the man is making a religion around himself and his decisions. See, if serial workers outside the 3rd world use it !
123 • Mandriva mirrors (by linbetwin on 2006-10-11 15:12:42 GMT from Romania)
@ werner (#120): Are you looking for a mirror to download mdv2007? I've been looking for a working update mirror. None of them seem to work.
Apps load sooooo slowly in KDE!
And la Ora is so ugly in KDE. Haven't tried GNOME yet.
124 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-10-11 15:42:54 GMT from United States)
You can download the 4 cd free edition from any of these mirrors:
Some mirrors are slow because many thousands of people are downloading now. It's still possible to find a fast mirror. As to updates, if you go into the control center after installation, and then to software, installation sources, you can automatically configure the proper mirrors for the distribution and for updates with just a few clicks. Mandriva will be using a new mirror format this year and it will probably take awhile for the mirrors to reflect the changes. PLF will also allow you to set up sources for main, contrib, and updates for 2007 official. If you want mirror sources for plf free and non free, however, for the moment you'll have to use cooker, and just choose the free and non-free mirrors. Plf free and non-free mirrors will allow you to gain access to all the multimedia goodies like mplayer, vlc, dvd etc.
125 • Kurumin's "death" RE 122 (by dbrion on 2006-10-11 16:26:32 GMT from France)
Poseidon and Geolivre are two (partly) Kurumin based live CD. Even with a faulty hd, any one in the world can find some good applications he can then compile by itself, even in a mild hamish (106 add pdf2txt , lynx and some compilers and you have something undreamed of 15 yrs ago) or use for learning (or teaching himself Portugues).
Suppose wallpapers are ugly and can't even be changed with a right click on a 2:3 button keyboard: the last point is likely to be a bug and should be corrected ( if a company wants to go on selling, it is obvious; ). Bugs can happen because any man cannot be smart fulltime, it is not an ideology matter...
For me, Mandriva & (as far as i remember tests) Suse are very nice beginner friendly : There is is no linguistic hierarchy(86), and
new people (students : when they get rich, they can recommend commercial versions their boss), plain users can do what they want with it.
126 • pc-bsd (by roger woodworker on 2006-10-11 20:48:51 GMT from United States)
Wow! I can not beleive pcbsd is bought by iXsystems! Its almost linux, I just wish they had pc-linux. Then B$ll would be having problems taking our money.
127 • Re. 113 (by UZ64 on 2006-10-11 20:57:02 GMT from United States)
"Attitudes like dropping Gnome really annoys me. Why couldnt he just let someone else compile Gnome for him if he doesnt wanna do it?"
People can create their own versions of Gnome for Slackware, and as a result the following two Slack-designed versions were born:
-Freerock Gnome: http://gsb.freerock.org/
...both of which Pat recomends for use with his distro, and even claims that these versions are even better than anything he's ever included on the official ISOs.
Then there's Dropline Gnome, but Slack's developer recommends against this version due to it modifying key system files. So you actually have three choices; two of which are recommended by the developer himself, one not. They're just not on the install CDs. You basically get *three* choices for a Gnome desktop, instead of just one. I don't see how exactly that's a negative, except for the fact that there's no real source of info (that I can find) which details the differences between them.
128 • Re: 9 • slackware release and missing gnome (by Ariszló on 2006-10-11 21:15:34 GMT from Hungary)
Dropline Installer 2.16:
Freerock Gnome 2.16:
129 • mandriva 2007 one (by jo (6 pack) on 2006-10-11 21:41:16 GMT from France)
first ref #120, 123,124 I had no problem at all finding the free download and not through bit torrent. just click on the mirror in the list and click on the ftp files that you want. the last two nights I was at 240ko/s downloading off belnet (my preferred mirror for distros whenever possible, better than the french ones IMHO).
The one stupid thing I have found with mandriva one 2007 (both the free gnome and the proprietary kde) is that they don't seem to be able to access the host machine's hard drives, a bit silly for a cd supposed to demonstrate the distro's functionality and mobility. I tried it on my chief's w98 box just to check and its the same as mine. Mandriva one 2006 was just the same. Everything else that I'm interested in seems to work to my innocent eye (i put some photos and music on a usb key just to see) but I won't be junking my venerable mandrakemove just yet. I am going to try the 4cd install in replacement of my mandrake 10, I don't like the risk but one has to move with the times eventually.
130 • Mandriva One 2007 (by parkash on 2006-10-11 22:29:16 GMT from Germany)
It's the first time I use Mandriva/Mandrake in my life...
I've used many other distro's before...
Anyway. I'm very pleased whit what I've seen so far. The installation went smooth, the usability in the desktop is superb... I loved how easily I configured my wireless network.
I would really say that THAT's what a linux Desktop should be.. Or at least that's the best approach so far. (I would expect a little more)
There's just one thing that dissapoints me...
I've used the Mandriva Linux Control Center to manage my software. And I really can't understand how is it that I've Gnome installed but I can't use it. Or why oh why!! Can't I install new software? And... Why is my KDE Menu so little? Where are all the apps?
Is this all there is to it? A neat user experience without elasticity?
I'll leave the desktop installed for a couple of days.. Just to see if I can get more to it. Where do I find mirrors for more packages?
And in general for any linux distro: Has anybody already thought of implementing Autopackage?
Ach! I feel like a tiger in a cage!
131 • No subject (by Yellow Dog on 2006-10-12 01:56:01 GMT from United States)
@73 Andrew asked, "I'm looking for a distro that has auto hardware detection and provides a kde that is pretty close to the to the libs provided on kde.org. Kind of like slackware or debian."
I use Kanotix which is based on Debian Sid. Very pleased with it. Easy installation and hardware detection is superb.
132 • RE: 130 • Mandriva One 2007 (by johncoom on 2006-10-12 01:58:51 GMT from Australia)
to: parkash from Germany
You should not be asking spacific questions about any distro here at DW
You would be better off asking here http://forum.club.mandriva.com
And you do know you could have found that out by looking at the Distrowatch page here http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=mandriva
Details like this about any distro can be found from the top of the main DW page by looking in the SELECT DISTRIBUTON pull down menu - so simple ah
133 • mdk clube (by werner on 2006-10-12 02:50:58 GMT from France)
@#129 etc: It seems I'm not the only which (in contrary to before) cannot longer find the links to the mirrors in the definitive Mdk release: read http://www.linux.org/dist/reviews/mandriva2007.html almost at the end. I feel a little they make us a fool; at the same time I regret very that the end of a distro what some time ago I apreciated highly is in this manner ...
134 • No subject (by agendelman on 2006-10-12 05:42:06 GMT from United States)
If you start at the official company site, here, http://www.mandriva.com/en/community/ , notice the menu on the left. Click on "Download", it will take you to a page where you can choose from a variety of free downloads, In fact, here's the page:
Now just click on the version you want to get, scroll down the page and choose from a long impressive list of mirrors all over the world.
If you want mirrors set up automatically for updates after installation, you can do this in the contol center under software. A few mouse clicks and it's done for you.
You can use a tool called easy urpmi found here, http://easyurpmi.zarb.org/ to set up repositories too. These will let you include the plf mirrors for libdvdcss etc.
A very clever and enterprising Mandriva Club in Germany offers a free tool which lets you choose from the most up-to-date mirrors. It's called smart urpmi, and you can find it here: http://easyurpmi.zarb.org/
135 • No subject (by agendelman on 2006-10-12 05:54:23 GMT from United States)
Here's the correct bookmark for smart urpmi: http://www.mandrivauser.de/smarturpmi/
136 • Religious Stupidity! (by wm1910 on 2006-10-12 09:18:19 GMT from United Kingdom)
I don't understand the arguements with Ubuntu CE or any of the other 'religious' editions they are just tools with a particular slant packaged together in one release. The tools are available seperately if required. We would not have the same problem if I wanted to release a distibution especially created for trainspotters with tools available to log my spotted trains and help identify one engine from another.I wouldn't be criticised if I released a set of tools to help people study biological sciences (I know these already exist but I'm trying to make a point) and released them as a distro, so why do so many people have a problem with any religious editions. Just because you have no use for something does not make it wrong.
137 • So we can discuss a different religious war... (by AC on 2006-10-12 14:26:25 GMT from United States)
Vi is for editing configuration files.
For everything else, there's Emacs!
138 • vi ... (by dbrion on 2006-10-12 14:51:57 GMT from France)
You forget scite, nedit, word, notepad (under windows) and oowriter
vi is less ressource consuming and higly portable (even under DOS, said Elvis). I doubt emacs would work in a Amish OS (something like #133 link;;;)
139 • 138 (by AC on 2006-10-12 15:14:34 GMT from United States)
I did not forget. Oowriter is not a text editor, it's a word processor. Notepad s a joke. The other two are relatively minor. (I also left out nano, though I recommend it to newcomers.)
Vi is ubiquitous and does consume less resources, which is why I recommend everyone learn it enough to edit text files. And starting up Emacs for that sort of quick administrative task would be wasteful. So my remarks acknowledged that point.
And Emacs does run on DOS.
140 • Madriva 2007 (by Full Tank on 2006-10-12 15:31:26 GMT from United States)
Gave it a chance on great hardware. Not impressed at all. No wonder they said Linux was not ready for the desktop. They must be using their product. Oh and I gave it to 3 other people. All gave it the suck award also. I am sure glad I did not blow away my Big Daddy 93a machine.
141 • Mandriva rocks (by geert on 2006-10-12 22:25:49 GMT from Belgium)
I have been installing mandriva since 8.0, and seen the progressive improvements.
For the last week, I tried to get UBUNTU Samba dancing on a PPC.
Halfway the week, I tried SWAT. Something I did not use since Mandrake 9.0, I think. Even SWAT did not work. All explenations in Geek. Not in English.. No GUI for installing.
If Ubuntu wants to have success with more than geeks, they must get their networking with PCs in order. Mandriva, has all these things working.
142 • No subject (by werner on 2006-10-13 04:01:30 GMT from France)
@ #125: w.r.t. Debian, I think when the father die, dies the whole family ...
143 • Windows Vista release date: December 5 (by linbetwin on 2006-10-13 14:35:55 GMT from Romania)
Microsoft announced the general release date for Vista, Office 2007 and Exchange 2007: December 5. I hope this Vista madness won't affect the download speed for Etch, which hopefully will be released the previous day. Oh, wait, you won't be able to download Vista ISOs, so that's not going to slow down the Internet.
144 • No subject (by werner, cayenne on 2006-10-13 15:01:41 GMT from France)
ref #143: not .iso , they should bring an gratis .tgz or .rpm version of Windows what I can quickly and easy install and run in a window of my Slackware system, otherwhise I dont use it ...
145 • Re: #144 (by linbetwin on 2006-10-13 15:14:22 GMT from Romania)
What?! You don't have Vista in the Slackware repos?! ;)
146 • Mandriva (by warpengi on 2006-10-13 17:55:42 GMT from Canada)
I just installed Mandriva One on my laptop, set the repos for 2007 and did an update. Everything worked great, I am very impressed. I was a long time Mandrake user and stuck with them through the name change but switched when they fired Gael Duval. Now I think I will switch back.
I don't know what teh problem is with those who can't get Mandriva 2007 to work. Everything "just works" (tm) for me. I love it.
147 • Re #144 (by Warpengi on 2006-10-13 18:05:27 GMT from Canada)
I needed to test something out in MSWindows recently so I thought I'd download a VMWare image to save time. I looked all over the net but no MSWindows virtual machines to download anywhere, not even in VMWares download section. Could it be that VMWare does not support MSWindows? Lots of virtual appliances for Linux but no MSWindows appliances. With barriers like that to using MSWindows I don't want to have anything to do with it.
148 • Re: #147 (by linbetwin on 2006-10-13 20:56:54 GMT from Romania)
VMWare does support Windows, but you wont find Windows appliances anywhere, because it's as illegal as downloading Windows ISOs via file-sharing. You can make your own Windows appliance if you have a Windows CD. You don't even need VMWare Workstation, the Player and a few files will do.
One more thing: I am not sure about this, but I heard that using Windows as a virtual machine is against the EULA.
149 • Yes I know (by warpengi on 2006-10-13 21:18:49 GMT from Canada)
that VMWare supports MSWindows. I was being tongue in cheek, sort of. It was a little silly of me to try to find MSWindows virtual machines but that was really what I needed. I am so used to finding VM's and virtual appliances for everything I need to do: web server, email server, LAMP server, testing distros, etc that I just naturally started looking. I'm just spoiled from the availability of OSS software.
This just goes to show how MS licensing has restricted the use of their software to the point where they can't keep up with the latest developments. They don't even sell a VM. Installing a Virtual appliance is much faster than installing the whole OS. Sure I could make one but the whole point was to avoid an complete install which would probably take me less time than creating a VM.
150 • vector 5.8 (by seppo m on 2006-10-14 04:11:48 GMT from Finland)
vector, ubuntu and zenwalk are the best working distro's for older computers and new vector is exellent (even beta version).
151 • 150 (by AC on 2006-10-14 04:22:19 GMT from United States)
Actually, for older computers, one mustn't forget Debian and Slackware, highly customizable distributions capable of an endless variety of set ups. And Gentoo as well, especially if you cross compile from a more powerful machine using NFS.
152 • older computers (by seppo m on 2006-10-14 05:09:31 GMT from Finland)
Reason why i wrote my comment is Ubuntu has Finnish translation so good that even 5 year old can use it, Zenwalk almost as good.
153 • edit (by seppo m on 2006-10-14 05:21:01 GMT from Finland)
i am working in recycling center, and there is only old computers available.
154 • Re: 150 to 153 (by johncoom on 2006-10-14 08:43:50 GMT from Australia)
To: seppo m - from Finland (etc)
For your information there are similar recycling projects in Australia
This is the one in the city where I live (CBV) http://vic.computerbank.org.au
Until recently they have used Ubuntu exclusively but if you do a Search at their site for " ubuntu " (with out quotes) then look at " CBV Distro " you will see that they are thinking about switching to Debian unstable so as not to be locked into Ubuntu's way of doing things - I guess it is debatable whats best.
I thought you would like to know what others are doing/thinking
BTW - The Melbourne LUG meets at their offices on the 4th Friday of the month and there are a few of our members who do volenter work for CBV
155 • U.S. 2006 November election candidates and Linux usage (by Yotam Medini at 2006-10-14 09:05:38 GMT from Israel)
Soon, there are elections throughout U.S. for many offices and positions.
Is there any survey of the candidates asking about:
+ Usage of Gnu/Linux? What distribution?
+ Views on free software, Open source. In offices and eduction.
156 • Mandriva (by Rop on 2006-10-14 09:12:09 GMT from Netherlands)
Mandriva used to be my favorite, now there are a lot more stable and out-of-the-box ready-to-go distro's. For an easy setup you still need to pay. PCLinux, Mepis and even if you like Myah are so much better now.
157 • 139 : In terms of loading speed, nedit is twice less minor than Emacs (by dbrion on 2006-10-14 10:00:40 GMT from France)
using "time", I tried vi, emacs and nedit (I think scite is redundant from Windows ports) on an unloaded Mandriva [10.2,2006 PC. vi was the fastest, then nedit, then emacs for opening a file. (I know it is a naive race). By the way, nedit has the nicest (IMHO) Fortran syntax highligthing.
I should recommend, for _loaded_ machines :
to learn vi by practise even if it is not loaded . This leads to narrow-minded underestimation of EMACS, I know.
Word (+ antiword? ) are the only way of configuring legal VMPlayer for a Windows user who does not know about notepad (he legally has bought...) . After trying an Mandriva installation, he should find some names of freely (whatever the meaning for the 5[0, I hope] next years) ported editors, if he is interested.
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