| DistroWatch Weekly
|DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 133, 9 January 2006
Welcome to this year's second issue of DistroWatch Weekly. We had a quiet week, only disturbed by new releases from Arch Linux and DragonFly BSD. We'll take a critical look at the latter, especially from the perspective of a desktop user, but don't expect much praise for the new version. In other news, the Fedora project has started testing its new rescue CD, Gentoo has published a HOWTO on creating a Gentoo LiveUSB, and Puppy is preparing for the launch of Puppy2, a major update. Among the distributions newly included on DistroWatch we have three live CDs: ArcheOS for archaeologists, Arudius for penetration testers, and Xenoppix for the fans of the Xen technology. Happy reading!
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in ogg (5.00MB) or mp3 (5.97MB) format (courtesy of Shawn Milo).
Join us at irc.freenode.net #distrowatch
Fedora rescue CD, Gentoo LiveUSB, Learning Debian, Puppy 2, Pardus Linux
One of the new features of Fedora Core 5, expected to enter a second testing phase next week, is a new rescue CD. Although not much information has been published about the features and goals of this Fedora sub-project, it is likely to become an important tool for all Red Hat and Fedora system administrators and therefore we thought it deserved some publicity. The first test release of the Fedora rescue CD was announced last week and several new builds have been released since then. The latest release, dated 8 January, appears to be built for x86_64 processors, but the developers are planning to produce a rescue CD for all three supported architectures. You can find the 70 MB ISO image in the /fedora/linux/development/isos/ directory on your favourite Fedora mirror.
The new Fedora Rescue CD has entered a testing phase.
Have you ever thought about building a bootable Linux system for a USB storage device? If so, you might be pleased to learn that the Gentoo Linux LiveUSB HOWTO has now become part of the project's official documentation: "This HOWTO explains how to create a Gentoo Linux LiveUSB or, in other words, how to emulate a Gentoo Linux Installation CD using an USB flash drive. This is particularly useful for installing Gentoo Linux on a modern laptop with no CD-ROM drive." Although the document explains the procedure running Gentoo Linux as the host system, it shouldn't be too difficult to apply the steps while using other distributions. The HOWTO, formatted in the usual high standard of the Gentoo documentation project, can be viewed here.
O'Reilly has published the entire content of Learning Debian GNU/Linux online for free access. Originally published in 1999, this "vintage" Linux publication was the first book teaching the basics of Debian - that strange distribution with no corporate backing, just hundreds of volunteer programmers. The book was also included in O'Reilly's Debian GNU/Linux box set, published in the same year, together with a CD of Debian 2.1 "slink" and a quick start guide - all labelled as "the last Linux OS you will ever need to buy". Although some seven years after its publishing the book might seem outdated, it is interesting to read the chapters about how Linux was viewed back in the final year of the 20th century and what the reality is today. The book can be accessed here.
The increasing popularity of Puppy Linux, a tiny and superfast distribution designed for older computers, has prompted the developers to start planning features for a new major upgrade. According to news published on the project's web site, the upcoming Puppy 1.0.8 will be the last 1.x series, after which all effort will focus on Puppy 2. What can we expect?, Well, Barry Kauler (the project leader) is not telling, but here are some good guesses: "Puppy will be really multiuser; the format and structure of the Squash file systems will change to give more freedom to mount custom file systems; hardware recognition will stay the same; the XDG menus and new network wizard will make it to the official release." A pre-alpha release of Puppy Linux 2 is expected "soon". More information on the project's Wiki and news pages.
It is always nice to see a mainstream technology publication giving exposure to smaller Linux distributions. Turkey's Pardus Linux is one of such projects, recently given coverage at ZDNet. Developed by a small group of developers at a Turkish research institute, the project is not short of ambition: "With the widespread use of Pardus, Turkey's software imports are expected to decline dramatically, and hardware sales and computer ownership to increase consequently, as the total cost of ownership of computers drop off." Strong words, but the project's first official release certainly looked like a winner. Originally based on Gentoo, the developers created a custom installer and several utilities to make it easier to use, while Turkish speakers will be pleased to find language-related dictionaries, spellcheckers and translation software included in the distribution. English is also supported. More information about Pardus can be found on the project's web site.
|First looks: DragonFly BSD 1.4
First looks: DragonFly BSD 1.4
Reviewing an operating system designed for hard core geeks is never easy. For one thing, there usually isn't all that much customisation to make the OS stand out (most of the OS-specific tweaks are somewhere in the kernel or userland, well hidden from the view of ordinary computer users). But also, these types of operating systems tend to have haphazardly put-together installer and system utilities, often without comprehensive documentation and without having done any usability assessments, which tends to put reviewers off. In a word, DragonFly BSD has about as much glamour as Phyllis Diller in a bikini.
Before going further, a quick refresher about the beginnings of this FreeBSD fork. Announced by in June 2003 by Matt Dillon, a long time FreeBSD and AmigaOS developer, DragonFly BSD was meant as a "logical continuation of FreeBSD 4.x series". Matt disliked the direction FreeBSD was taking when it entered the 5.x development stage - hence the reason for launching the fork. After DragonFly BSD 1.0 and 1.2, version 1.4 is the project's third major stable release.
The bootable ISO image of DragonFly BSD is very small - only about 81 MB in compressed state and 226 MB after the file is gunzip-ed, giving an early indication that the CD contains a base system only. It boots into a "live CD" mode with an option to login as root, while logging in as "installer" will start the installation program. After a few informational screens and options to return to the "live CD" mode, the installer goes through the normal formatting and partitioning stages, before in starts installing files. The installation is brisk - on my 1.4GHz P4 test system with 384MB of RAM it took only about 6 minutes. After setting up a boot loader, I was given an option to configure various aspects of the installed system, including time zone, date, passwords, users and networking. A handful of extra packages are also available for installation.
The DragonFly BSD installation program
After rebooting, I found myself staring at a boot prompt. Networking worked fine so it was time to try to extend the system by installing some useful packages. While reading the release notes I noted that FreeBSD ports were no longer supported and that the preferred way of installing packages on DragonFly BSD was with pkgsrc, a utility ported from NetBSD. It took me a while to find some information about this - the DragonFly BSD Handbook, which is an exact copy of the FreeBSD Handbook, gives no indication about the existence of pkgsrc in the system. Luckily, I found a good write-up about it on the project's Wiki pages. The pkgsrc utility turned out to be a very nice way to install binary DragonFly BSD packages; once I set the PKG_PATH environment variable, all it took to install a package and all of its dependencies was to issue a simple command, e.g. "pkg_add xorg".
Can DragonFly BSD used on a desktop system? Certainly. Or, to be more precise, that's what the project's founder claimed in this interview at OSNews.
"It is extraordinarily difficult to make GUIs work out of the box on PCs due to the wide variability in hardware and peripherals, but at the same time technology has continued to progress over the years towards standards that actually make this easier to accomplish. At some point the standards going in one direction will meet the software going in the other and systems such as Linux and the BSDs (including DragonFly) will be able to approach the out-of-the-box compatibility that took Microsoft billions of dollars of development to accomplish. It isn't a matter of if, it's a matter of when."
Unfortunately, once you try to set up DragonFly BSD as a desktop system, you'll soon realise that the above are just empty words and the developers have made absolutely no effort to push the software part of the equilibrium ahead, seemingly choosing to wait for the hardware part to move in from the other direction. In fact, using DragonFly BSD made me feel as if I was back in the mid-nineties, with every single aspect of the desktop needed to be configured manually. In the end, I did get KDE up and running, but not before I spent quite a bit of time configuring the X Window System and USB mouse, and, in the absence of any useful documentation, searching for answers on Google. An educational experience? Maybe. A waste of time? Certainly yes.
In summation, DragonFly BSD is probably a very good, stable system created by a group of talented developers with a vision. I find its installer intuitive and its package management pleasant to use. But DragonFly BSD is still an operating system designed for "ubergeeks", rather than ordinary users. The project's biggest problem, however, is the lack of any decent documentation. It took the big three BSDs many years to write comprehensive handbooks and it's foolish to expect the DragonFly BSD developers to write similarly good documentation when they clearly prefer to write code. Unfortunately, without it, the project will never become the 4th major BSD OS, especially while we are witnessing an interesting trend of building user-friendly BSDs by the DesktopBSD and PC-BSD projects. Yes, this is a very shallow assessment of a release that certainly includes plenty of exciting features, but I did expect a bit more, especially after reading the above-mentioned comment by the project's creator.
The DragonFly BSD project pages can be found at DragonFlyBSD.org.
|Released Last Week
EnGarde Secure Linux 3.0.3
EnGarde Secure Linux has been updated to version 3.0.3: "Guardian Digital is happy to announce the release of EnGarde Secure Community 3.0.3 (Version 3.0, Release 3). This release includes several bug fixes and feature enhancements to the Guardian Digital WebTool, the SELinux policy, and the LiveCD environment. New features include: a new WebTool frontend to the NetDiff Network Scanner; the WebTool AIDE host intrusion detection module is now enabled by default; support for USB keyboards; the latest stable versions of MySQL (5.0.17), Apache (2.0.55), BIND (9.3.2), iptables (1.3.4)...." Read the release announcement for further information.
Arch Linux 0.7.1
A brand new version of Arch Linux has been released: "Here it is, folks. All the Arch goodness you know and love, only half the fat. We've added some better hardware detection, stock initrd support for neat things like encrypted root filesystems, network profiles, and more little goodies here and there. Thanks for the patience, everyone. As always, read the docs before installing." See the brief release announcement on the distribution's news page.
Yellow Dog Linux 4.1
Yellow Dog Linux 4.1 has been released: "Terra Soft Solutions is pleased to announce the release of Yellow Dog Linux v4.1. This next evolution of Yellow Dog provides an incredible array of updates and improvements, the foundation for the most complete, integrated release to date: support for backlit keys; PCMCIA cell phone and modem support; support for Atheros wi-fi cards; dual head configuration via the GUI; install direct to and boot from FireWire drives; USB device auto-mount under both KDE and GNOME; greatly improved sound support; graphical Up2Date package install and update tool ... and a completely rebuilt KDE and Gnome 'start' menu for vastly improved navigation of the graphical user interface." More details in the press release.
DragonFly BSD 1.4
DragonFly BSD 1.4 has been released: "1.4 is our third major DragonFly release. This release represents a significant milestone in our efforts to improve the kernel infrastructure. DragonFly is still running under the Big Giant Lock, but this will probably be the last release where that is the case. The greatest progress has been made in the network subsystem. The TCP stack is now almost fully threaded (and will likely be the first subsystem we remove the BGL from in coming months). The TCP stack now fully supports the SACK protocol and a large number of bug and performance fixes have gone in, especially in regard to GigE performance over LANs." Find more details in the comprehensive release notes.
A new version of Finnix is out: "Finnix is a small, self-contained, bootable Linux CD distribution for system administrators, based on Debian testing. Today marks the release of version 86.2 for the x86, PowerPC, and UML/Xen platforms. Finnix 86.2 contains several new features, including Linux kernel 2.6.15, improved hardware detection (using data from Fedora Core 4), improved reliability when booting from USB CDROM and thumb devices, and an expanded general-purpose task utility, aptly named 'finnix'. In addition, Finnix may now be installed and run directly from a hard drive." The release announcement.
* * * * *
Development and unannounced releases
|Upcoming Releases and Announcements
Summary of expected upcoming releases
|Web Site News
New distribution additions|
* * * * *
New distributions added to the waiting list
- Barefoot Linux. Barefoot Linux is a distribution created to extend the capabilities of VectorLinux, with out-of-the-box NVIDIA support, Autopackage, locale for Tamil and Sinhala languages, and other tweaks. Currently in early development.
- nUbuntu. nUbuntu is a collection of network and server security testing tools, piled on top of the existing Ubuntu system. While aimed to be mainly a security testing platform, nUbuntu also operates as a desktop environment for the advanced Linux user.
- SlackPen. SlackPen is a live CD based on Slackware Linux. The current goal is to offer everything necessary to perform a complete security audit of a network, in a low overhead environment. The end goal of SlackPen is to provide an easy installer for SlackWall, a Slackware-based firewall distribution. SlackPen was built using Slackware and the linux-live scripts written by Tomas Matejicek.
* * * * *
DistroWatch database summary
That's all for today. See you next Monday!
1 • Welcome to another great weekly read! (by Bill Savoie on 2006-01-09 08:58:21 GMT from United States) |
Thanks Ladislav, for the wonderful read.. we love your work..
2 • i just love mondays! (by naquis on 2006-01-09 09:32:43 GMT from United States)
DWW is one of the reasons I just love mondays! Thank you very much, and keep up the awsome work!
3 • Loving the news! (by Terry on 2006-01-09 09:41:07 GMT from United States)
Thanks for another great read!
4 • Always a must read! (by Thad on 2006-01-09 10:11:44 GMT from Taiwan)
Monday (evenings in Asia) are not complete without reading DWW! Great work (again)!
5 • Puppy Linux (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-01-09 10:17:37 GMT from Italy)
Well, I haven't said much about this distro, but I feel that it is time to do so.
This distribution is "cute", but it is pretty useless to me. Why? I need dev tools, so that I can compile rp-pppoe and have internet access. I know, it is available in Puppy, but for some reason it works for me only if I compile it myself.
If it were a Debian based distro I could have done:
# apt-cdrom add
# apt-get install build-essential
But it isn't Debian, so i can't do it.
More generally speaking I have always lamented that there are very few good distros whose size is something in between, neither a puppy or damn small nor damn bloated, something around 200 MB.
Fortunately Debian is very flexible and you can install as much or as little as you please.
6 • Fedora rescue CD? (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-01-09 10:26:23 GMT from Italy)
Well, I hope it is half as good as the excellent and little known SUSE rescue feature, which is part of CD1 or the DVD.
No other OS I have ever tried has such a great feature. Especially good if you are mantaining Linux for other people (as I am not very likely to break my own Debian system beyond repair).
7 • Barefoot? (by Morten Juhl Johansen on 2006-01-09 10:33:55 GMT from Denmark)
I think that the usefulness of Barefoot Linux is questionable... if it is simply a modified Vector, why not just simply cooperate with the project? Sometimes, people's desire to be a distromaster wastes resources.
8 • DragonFly BSD (by BSD rocks on 2006-01-09 10:58:25 GMT from Finland)
DragonFly BSD sounds good, I think I'll give it a try. Supposedly "difficult" GNU/Linux distros (like Slackware, Debian, Gentoo, ArchLinux) don't seem that difficult to me, so I think I can manage with BSDs too. : )
9 • Turbolinux and Xandros (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-01-09 11:10:38 GMT from Italy)
What do they have in common? Both have left me wondering.
Turbolinux 11 was supposed to release an English version, but we haven't heard anything.
Xandros: are they going to rely on 3.0 forever? Do they realize that people buy new hardware, that the world of linux is moving at a very fast rate...
Does anybody know if there are any plans *at all* for a new release?
I am under the impression that the very few remaing distros hoping to make a profit from a desktop linux are slowly dying.
10 • Puppy is more than cute... (by ChiJoan on 2006-01-09 11:21:04 GMT from United States)
Sorry to see you are so rusty with Victor Linux as that's what Barry and others were using to compile, last I read. But the extended .iso, or whatever they call it, is mentioned on their site, and has some of your programming tools. With as fast as Puppy progresses others must not be finding it hard to adapt to.
Go Puppy...Thanks for filling a special place in my tech tool kit.
You must have been in a hurry today, or did the spellcheck make those typos ;-) Excellent read, nice to know I'm not the only one that can goof a little.
11 • Puppy Linux (by Anonymous on 2006-01-09 11:33:15 GMT from Australia)
Reply to Anonymous Penguin:
rp-pppoe is already in the Puppy live-cd.
Those "good guesses" are someone's speculation on the Puppy Forum.
The Developer News page, that you have linked to, has some of the new features listed (news for 9th January).
There are some Puppy2 files for testing, but they are labelled as "pre-pre-alpha" for good reason. Basically only for our keen band of Puppy-testers at this stage!
12 • Puppy Linux (by wildpossum on 2006-01-09 11:40:37 GMT from Australia)
Dear Anonymous Penguin from Italy,
I'm sorry you find Puppy Linux frustrating. However it's impossible to satisfy everybody. Puppy's goals are to be small, easy to deploy and usable on older hardware. A friend of mine who tried it found it very impressive on a slow notebook that had a dead hard disk. He's not the type of person who could cope with Debian. You are probably one of the very few people who want to compile something on a working system. One solution would be to use the same build system as the developers, Vector Linux as a previous poster says. But you have your own solution already, and that is to use some other distro. Thank goodness for choices.
13 • Re:Xandros (by Ironphil on 2006-01-09 12:11:43 GMT from Canada)
Xandros will start beta testing for version 4 very soon, the application form is already on their web page. It will be based on DCC, maybe that is why it takes longer.
14 • Puppy 2 - smaller, simpler, faster (by Lobster on 2006-01-09 12:15:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
:) Happy New Year
Puppy 2 pre-pre Alpha is out for scouts.
Basically you get all the Puppy goodness on a writeable flashdrive (much like the Puppy Multisession did for CD's and DVD's)
You will need a flashdrive of 128 meg (min) to test it out
Saving is in the background
As for compiling in Puppy. Well he is only tiny BUT developers can download one file and they then have a C compiler for compiling
Compiling within Puppy? - m m m. . . most people do not need it. So we make no apologies for not including it as standard. Puppy of course has Puppy Basic (built in) Perl (add on) Lua (add on) Tcl (built in) XUL (built in) (OK I am getting carried away but it is of course available)
We are also keen on tinycc (a tiny interpreted C) - other languages available as add ons include Ruby, Python, X11 Basic and Xbasic, Gambas, Java.
Most work is done with Linux script and the odd widget
As for the 200 meg Puppy - there is one, it is an add on called MegaPup - again one file - it contains Open Office 2, Apache, KDE and other stuff - can not find a link but ask on the Puppy forum. Mark Ulrich is hosting it - so that makes a Puppy of around 260 meg
Tux be with you!
15 • Arch linux (by Anonymous on 2006-01-09 12:16:26 GMT from Canada)
Hi, I would be interested to see a review of the new Arch linux.
Thank and congratulation for your good works !
16 • Thanks for the replies (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-01-09 12:25:57 GMT from Italy)
"Sorry to see you are so rusty with Victor Linux as that's what Barry and others were using to compile"
I never mentioned Vector, did I?
Anonymous on 2006-01-09 11:33:15 GMT from Australia,
"rp-pppoe is already in the Puppy live-cd."
I said so, didn't I? But no distro with rp-pppoe preinstalled has ever worked for me, I need to compile it myself.
I don't really find Puppy Linux frustrating. I find it nice (perhaps nice is a better word than "cute"), I simply can't connect to the internet.
"Thank goodness for choices."
Indeed. But the main reason for this weekly forum to exist is to discuss various linux distros.
To everybody: I am planning to replace my ISP soon and buy a router. The issue of ppoe connection will then disappear (besides my upcoming ISP uses pppoa instead).
17 • RE: #13 & 14 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-01-09 12:32:37 GMT from Italy)
Thanks Ironphil and Lobster, very useful info, hopefully also for other users.
18 • small typo (by a_nonymous on 2006-01-09 13:25:24 GMT from Slovakia)
in the news about Fedora Rescue CD :
"... appears to be built for x86_84 processors ..." - really x86_84 ?
19 • DragonflyBSD (by Troy Banther a.k.a aGNUstic on 2006-01-09 13:40:00 GMT from United States)
Remember, a BSD user generally does not use a GUI like we do. ;-)
Thanks for the excellent read. Makes me look forward to Monday morning. No where's my coffee.
20 • DragonFly BSD (by William Poetra Yoga Hadisoesen on 2006-01-09 14:00:59 GMT from China)
I tried the 1.2 version (if I recall correctly) and the curses installer was buggy (under QEMU). I did manage to install it though, and when I have the time I'll try 1.4 :)
21 • DistroWatch Podcast (by WebSmith on 2006-01-09 14:57:27 GMT from United States)
I just listened to your last podcast of DistroWatch Weekly and know that you have not been receiving many comments, so I wanted to take an opportunity to let you know that I for one really appreciate the effort you put into the podcast. I travel extensively for my work, and the podcast gives me a way to keep current while I am driving. Please keep the podcast going.
22 • Fedora rescue CD (by Uncle Peng on 2006-01-09 15:07:37 GMT from Germany)
The Debian Installer for Etch has also a rescue option. So if your already installed Debian fails to boot, you can boot the installer CD with the rescue option and then chroot to the installed Debian partition to fix things.
23 • DragonFly does need docs (by Justin Sherrill on 2006-01-09 15:52:05 GMT from United States)
DragonFly BSD does need documentation, and I should know - I'm the one who converted/updated most of the Handbook, the mailing archives, and run the log page ( http://shiningsilence.com/dbsdlog/ )
Documentation should improve over time - what this article talks about is better material at the application level to reduce the work needed to reach a full system. We'll get there... I'd say the system should stabilize first, but the major changes going on under the hood have been surprisingly untroublesome.
Moving to pkgsrc as part of this release is one part of that, as we can now take advantage of tools designed to administer the pkgsrc system. The installer is also a step in the right direction, and an improvement on FreeBSD's venerable sysinstall.
24 • reply to anonymus penguin (by Zuggy on 2006-01-09 16:01:46 GMT from United States)
If you want a distro that's about 200MB try Slax. It's a Slackware-based live distro and the classic version is 174MB
25 • RE: #24 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-01-09 16:23:33 GMT from Italy)
Yes, I must do that. For some reason I have been lazier than in the past in trying new distros, but Slax is one I want definitely try.
26 • Re: Barefoot? (by Misty on 2006-01-09 16:40:53 GMT from United States)
I posted on that subject about 3 weeks ago. To recap, in many cases the developers of a distro may not accept additions like this. (Dunno if this is the case with Vector.) If you want to make changes and/or add-ons to your fave distro sometimes making your own version is the only thing to do, as many developers completely refuse to cooperate.
27 • dragonflyBSD 1.4 (by dfly tester on 2006-01-09 16:47:52 GMT from United Kingdom)
dragonflyBSD at this stage is focussed not on desktops or end users really - its main focus is to meet its targets for redoing the internels of the system - that's pretty much the only topic of discussion on their wikis and lists. once that has been done maybe someone will package itup into a userfriendly duisto - i htink gpBSD has done that?
but right now - its a technology orietnted system - bnot an end user system.
28 • Now moving to BSD (by Kensai on 2006-01-09 17:00:21 GMT from Puerto Rico)
After some years of experimenting with Linux I have to say it's been a wonderful experience but, I got to make the move to FreeBSD. I have been using freebsd for some time and love it more than Linux I must say, well organized and most important only one FreeBSD. There are some projects based on freebsd like pcbsd and desktopbsd etc... but FreeBSD still the original and will be there forever. Which was the original Linux distro? And is it still there?
29 • No subject (by Brach on 2006-01-09 17:41:36 GMT from United States)
yes yes indeed me likes DWW on mondays!
30 • Re: 28 * Now moving to BSD (by Leo on 2006-01-09 18:28:27 GMT from United States)
Good for you Kensai. I'd rather stick to GPL software for political/philosophical reasons, but it's all good.
As for the "one freeBsd" claim. Yes, but there are several *BSD's. The same way there are several Linux distros. There are more linux distros because linux has caught up more popularity than bsd so far (this could change of course)
But back you question. Debian was one of the original distros. Most of Linux's share market is owned by Debian and its derivatives these days (Ubuntu, Knoppix, Knoppix derivatives -- too many to list --, Kubuntu, Mepis, Kanotix, etc). Redhat was another precursor and it is still around. The same for Slackware.
What was you point again ?
31 • Fedora Core 5 (by RobNyc on 2006-01-09 18:29:21 GMT from United States)
I just installed FC5 - Devel on virtual machine (Parallels) and wow I'm am amazed
It's lovely, no bugs, wow good for FC5 it will be great
32 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-01-09 18:35:30 GMT from United States)
I believe that SLS - Soft landing Systems - was the oldest GNU/Linux distribution. Slackware started as a collection of patches to it, but Pat Volkerding was criticized by the creator of SLS for violating his copyrights, so changed the installer and started calling it Slackware.
Likewise, the original Debian manifesto references difficulties ian Murdoch has with SLS as motivation for creating Debian.
NetBSD is arguably truer to the original BSD design principles and developed roughly simultaneously with FreeBSD. The leanest, cleanest Unix around, it ain't just for obscure hardware either.
33 • Re: Fedora Core 5 (by Michael Magua on 2006-01-09 19:26:42 GMT from South Africa)
Of course there's bugs!
34 • Kubuntu booting faster! (by Leo on 2006-01-09 19:34:43 GMT from United States)
I installed Dapper Flight 2 and I am building my new main distro on top of it, to make the switch (whenever it stabilizes for 6.04 release)
The system is almost as fast as Mandriva. In my machine, the diff is 3 seconds in favor of Mandriva. They both are very responsive.
Recent changes on Kubuntu:
I like the amount of high quality info around Kubuntu. Optimization for instance:
The installation is quite simple, and then you can twik things as much as you want ...
35 • ArcheOS (by SunRa on 2006-01-09 20:30:10 GMT from Greece)
Funny thing, ArcheOS uses a realy ancient desktop theme :-)
BTW Archeos mean ancient in Greek
36 • puppy spam (by Anonymous on 2006-01-09 20:43:11 GMT from United States)
Can't you folks who promote puppy give us all a break?
37 • DSL now stands for... (by Nuno Zimas on 2006-01-09 20:50:38 GMT from Poland)
The DSL project seems to be drifting a bit when it comes to nomenclature. At http://dslos.com they claim to be Demi Size Linux. At http://damnsmalllinux.org they keep the name the domain points out.
The aforementioned dslos website is rather odd. Just a few links to financially support the project and, as far as i could see, nothing else.
Maybe Ladislav will be in position to enlight us all.
Thanks a lot for another superb reading.
38 • Puppy (by Nuno Zimas on 2006-01-09 21:05:30 GMT from Poland)
Puppy is in deed a VERY impressive distro, ever since i started playing with it. For sure this 7 years old laptopi«m using now would love to host the puppy. Too bad i depend on a USB ethernet adapter (pegasus2 driver) and the system fails to even see it, a task DSL, thanks to Knoppix, i guess, performs flawlessly.
A pity, considering how speedy, small and feature rich Puppy is.
39 • Re: 36 • puppy spam (by Ariszló on 2006-01-09 21:34:58 GMT from Hungary)
Better this type of "spam" than distro wars. I'm not a Puppy user myself but prefer Puppy "spam" to anonymous intolerance.
40 • And the moronfest goes on! (by Mr. Pink on 2006-01-10 01:15:55 GMT from United States)
1 • Welcome to another great weekly read! (by Bill Savoie on 2006-01-09 08:58:21 GMT from United States)
Thanks Ladislav, for the wonderful read.. we love your work..
2 • i just love mondays! (by naquis on 2006-01-09 09:32:43 GMT from United States)
DWW is one of the reasons I just love mondays! Thank you very much, and keep up the awsome work!
3 • Loving the news! (by Terry on 2006-01-09 09:41:07 GMT from United States)
Thanks for another great read!
4 • Always a must read! (by Thad on 2006-01-09 10:11:44 GMT from Taiwan)
Monday (evenings in Asia) are not complete without reading DWW! Great work (again)!
And on and on and on.
You people don't read much, do you?
41 • RE: 40 • And the moronfest goes on! (by ladislav on 2006-01-10 02:27:27 GMT from Taiwan)
Yeah, I think, I'll start deleting these kinds of messages next week. I appreciate feedback, but I think we should keep this forum for discussing distro-related issues, not wasting space with meaningless posts.
42 • DragonFly (repy to Justin) (by Scott at 2006-01-10 03:30:51 GMT from United States)
Yes, and you're doing an excellent job with the docs, not to mention the digest. That script (of Joerge's?) that fixed the gettext problem with pkgsrc should have been in the errata but I found it on your page.
As the user base grows, no doubt, there will be more people with time and inclination to do more documentation.
One other problem though, is that there are too many orphaned pages on the wiki--perhaps the howto section page should be changed so that one can easily create a link from it? As it is, if you go to the main page, the next obvious step is the howto page. The installation docs (including a link to mine) aren't indicated on the wiki's main page, nor are they linked to from the howtos page.
43 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-01-10 04:35:18 GMT from United States)
I'm definitely looking forward to Puppy 2.xx !!!
44 • Off topic distros (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-10 05:14:53 GMT from Canada)
Warren has let Simply 'slide'. It would appear he slaps in new
packages at the exspense of breaking others. 3.3 still works great for me but any version after that, everything from my dsl password not staying in the config file to my favourite screensaver (fireworks/OpenGL) is missing. My guess is, the game is, you get a taste but some things don't work quite right so you run out and buy the Mepis subscription. Shame on you Warren. Now, on to OpenSuSE (10.0.42)...what happened!? Right up to 9.x whatever, my dsl was configured seamlessly, now I have to know every single intimate detail of my isp's configuration, jeeze! Where is the 'real McCoy' nvidia driver, now you only get the dummy? My video was fast and 3D enabled right up to 9.x, not anymore. As a matter of fact, the last time I tried to boot into 10.0.42, I got the fricken command line only! Why in the frick would it boot into KDE 4 or 5 times, then suddenly decide not to FOR NO GOOD REASON!? Yeah, I know it's a test version, but still...come on. I think I will try Kanotix (2005-04) with the Debian kernel this time around, the Kanotix kernel was a little flakey and it didn't like my machine. At least then it may not regurgitate updates from the Debian servers.
45 • Flash and Firefox in Kanotix (hd install) (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-10 05:22:50 GMT from Canada)
Just in case anybody else is toying with Kantotix (2005-04), Flashplayer likes to lock up Firefox (with the Kantotix kernel). It wasn't to friendly towards Sun Java right away either. So if it is happening to you, you are not alone.
46 • Spelling errors in previous post... (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-10 05:33:46 GMT from Canada)
please excuse...Kantotix, my girlfriends butt ( /i ) heh heh.
47 • Let's try the girlfriend's... (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-10 05:39:03 GMT from Canada)
butt one more time... ( /i ).
48 • The girlfriend's... (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-10 05:42:56 GMT from Canada)
butt, rear view, consists of a left bracket, two spaces, a forward slash, a lower case 'i', a back slash, two more spaces and a right bracket. It obviously doesn't work here. Damn. >:-[
49 • DragonflyBSD & Minix3 (by x on 2006-01-10 06:06:05 GMT from United States)
I was under the impression that it is still in the developmental stage and is not ready for production use. Their documentation does lag behind the code, but this seems to be a normal phenomena in the world of open source software. Remember when most linux distributions' documentation barely qualified for the skimpy catagory. Perhaps a follow-up review in a year or two will yield a more favorable opinion.
While on the subject of developmental stage projects, Minix3 seems to have made great strides recently. Any thoughts concerning a future appearance on the main distro list. It is supposed to be POSIX compliant o/s. I will not be able to experiment with it for several months, as I am traveling. Has anyone installed it or used it recently?
50 • Mr. Pink (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-10 06:18:17 GMT from Canada)
Wasn't Mr. Pink the snivelling con in Reservoir Dogs? Did he get shot in the end too? I don't remember. Or...you could be gay and this is your way of 'coming out'. Only a moron would use a name like Mr. Pink. >:-P
51 • Hey Kensai! (by iMoron on 2006-01-10 06:51:02 GMT from United States)
Hey... Kensai... did is the first time I notice someone from P.R. over here...
Distrowatch is great! Thanks Ladislav..., hehehe... I agre with #40
Ok now seriously... When will Gambas get the donation of the moth!!!??? ... I know, I know, there are many good proyects out there... and there are only 12 months in a year :p ...
Ladyslav... I was wondering about making a page called watchdistro... to do "somekind of highligth of the leeser known distro... like and upsidedown list if you will... plasing the least known at the too and making reviews and such, like you do here but inverted... somehow linking those page ranking to yours to make for an interesting "discovery of the hiden" of sorth...
Ofcource this is just a wild (lame) idea... and asides from my inexperience making pages and gathering the stuff needed... it would be had to do... if you understand what my idea is... (am bad at explanig...) But since there are so many new linuxes comming out, there should be some way to direct the "posible" users tours those leaser known distros... asides from your hiligths here...
Naaaa.... too much work... (*self answer) Just add an inverted list and call it "The bottom 100" ... or maybe the "200" since there are so many... and point out that if anyone wants to or is looking for proyects to work on can check them "leaser known" distros out...
-iMoron (before -Big Moron, "top 5" (useless now) idea, remember!)
52 • RE: #22 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-01-10 13:10:21 GMT from Italy)
It is partly my fault. I shouldn't have said: "SUSE rescue feature", but "SUSE repair feature", which is a lot more than a simple rescue. It is anything from an (almost) fully automated repair to a custom one. Even newbies can repair their system, and I know people who have done just that.
53 • RE: #44 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-01-10 13:59:49 GMT from Italy)
If you try Kanotix with a Debian kernel, will you let us know if everything keeps working, especially the Kano's scripts?
I should do some more experimenting of my own, but at the momen I am quite busy. I have installed Debian kernels in Kanotix, but I have never kept them for long enough.
54 • First book on Debian was actually earlier. (by Anonymous on 2006-01-10 18:10:45 GMT from United States)
the first book on Debian was actually a bit earlier than the O'Reilly book.
55 • Version number (by Anonymous on 2006-01-11 03:34:30 GMT from United States)
The version number are not important (to me) when doing the podcast.
DISCLAIMER: English is my 1st langage.
56 • posting this from Mepis partition (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-11 03:59:38 GMT from Canada)
I have had it with OpenSuSE 10.0.42 (10.1 Alpha4). Enabled video '3D' sucks. I get the internet connection (dsl/pppoe) working (every damn utility says its working) but Firefox and Konq' both say they have contacted site 'blahblahblah.com' but nothing happens. I just sit and stare at a blank, white browser window. Same thing with YOU, actually not the same because it says it is not connecting at all. I have tried this stuff in both user and root. What a fricken joke. Why in the world would the SuSE team not install kinternet by default, it's one of the best parts of SuSE. I hate to say, SuSE was a little more 'world class' before it went 'open'. Now it's just broken. There goes another 5 cdr's in the garbage. Back to the drawing board. I haven't tried Ark in awhile. I like to try one of each (RPM partition and a Debian partition). Unfortunately, I am not in a position to abandon Windohs 2k yet (I wouldn't touch XP with somebody elses 10 foot pole). >:-[
57 • RE: #56 (by Anonymous Penguin on 2006-01-11 09:12:29 GMT from Italy)
Why bother about something which is only an alpha (that is, the earliest stage of development)?
You don't try an alpha expecting that it is stable or even functional (anybody who has ever tried development releases of Mandrake/driva will know very well what I mean). You try it in order to give feedback/report bugs. By doing so I was able to have a couple features added to SUSE 10.0.
Having said all that, SUSE 10.0 final refused to cooperate with my graphic and sound card, whilst distros of similar or even lower specs worked just fine.
58 • Re:57 (by Leo on 2006-01-11 12:39:08 GMT from United States)
Very True AnonymousPenguin
People are very welcome to "try early and provide feedback". The distros need this to improve and get a solid release. But you can ONLY judge the final release. Many times they only upload the latest fixes for the very final release. And you (nix_os_fan) are tying an alpha version for Stroustrup sake !
59 • Broken link (by Iyan on 2006-01-11 13:08:03 GMT from Indonesia)
Broken link on ArcheOS, it is written arheos not archeos
60 • Leo and Anonymous Penguin... (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-11 14:05:04 GMT from Canada)
I get your point. I am making the mistake of complaining in the wrong place. Regardless of being alpha, something as basic as pppoe setup and use should work. What good is an OS without an internet connection? Without the internet, a PC is just a printer and calculator. On a seperate note, I tried to re-install Kanotix with acpi and dma off (the only way it would install the last time) but is stalled at about 40%. I have a feeling it has something to do with creating the installation partition with qtparted, the Mepis partition still being active in System Commander boot manager or something of the like. I am going to try Knoppix 4.0.2 instead and if that don't co-operate, I will venture right into the lair of the beast (aka Debian 3.1r1). Knoppix has better documentation, I get the impression Kanotix could care less about english speaking users. >:-]
61 • :-) (by Leo on 2006-01-11 14:40:43 GMT from United States)
Oh my friend:
"I get your point. I am making the mistake of complaining in the wrong place. Regardless of being alpha, something as basic as pppoe setup and use should work. What good is an OS without an internet connection?"
But the thing is: there is no place to "complain" about this really. To speed up development cycle in a distro, they need to put stuff quickly, and get it tested and fixed. There are three stages:
*alpha: they just put new versions of packages and new software, things are _expected_ to be broken.
*beta: most of the new packages are in and they start to iron out bugs
*rc: things should be mostly working, but they give it a shot or two in case someone finds a show-stopper.
This is why all distros warn you NOT to use the dev. version if you expect it to work. ONLY use it if you want to help out. It is clear cut.
So, if you wanna help them out, please submit a bug report in their system. Otherwise, you could do yourself a favor and use the latest stable release, updated it to the newest stable packages they officially provide. They even provide KDE 3.5 updates !!!
62 • #1, #40 and note #61 - Why we feel the way we do! (by Bill Savoie on 2006-01-11 15:35:16 GMT from United States)
Maybe the word 'love' is too strong. But look at Leo's post 61. Note "my friend" the gentle way of starting off. Next notice the positive help he provides. *alpha, *beta, *rc are part of process. Following this known process provides better results. Missing that process and further FUD about the people envolved is a distraction and a waste of good energy. Leo seems to want your energy to be helpful, he wants better process because you are involved. This is very Buddhist.
The effect of "Open Source" is much more than how to get software cheap, it is about learning through experience how we are all interconnected and interdependent. DistroWatch allows you a front row seat at the cutting edge of this "Open Source" revolution. I love that, because it reveals the truth of the human spirit. What can we do together? Watch and learn! Even better help it grow! Don't you just love it?
63 • Posted from Knoppix 4.0.2... (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-11 18:03:16 GMT from Canada)
I chose the 'Debian Style' installation. So far it is much more 'co-operative' than Kanotix. Leo, thankyou ever so much for explaining the development versions to me, really, I am not being sarcastic. The only term I've ever known is 'beta' (which I basically thought was software that is good enough to release for the public to test and provide feedback with no warranties made by the software creator). Although Knoppix is playing nicer, I am still going to install Debian. I am at the point where "cutting edge" means nothing to me, I just want stable and functional. I love Synaptic and when I see the Debian logo beside a package in the list, it gives me a certain degree of comfort knowing it won't trash my installation (99.9% of the time).
P.S. Not being able to log in as root in Knoppix (Debian style hd install) is extremely annoying. I run Windohs 2k as the admin without any problems. Mind you, I find some distro's run way faster as a 'user', but it sure is nice to be able to do lots of tweaking/configuring without putting in a password every 30 seconds and then log back into a 'user'. >:-]
64 • Re: Why we feel the way we do! (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-11 18:26:49 GMT from Canada)
I feel the way I do because necessity is the mother of invention. People will only stand for so much oppression from the likes of Billy and friends. Even *pple, though not quite as bad as the aforementioned criminal, is an overpriced, proprietary conundrum. If I win a lottery tomorrow, I would not be giving money to starving societies that have centuries and previous donations to correct their ways, I would be donating funds to ANYTHING open-source/freeware, starting with the best and least annoying (some freeware is greedy in a spammy kind of way) and work my way down the list. Recent events in my life have shown me that annonymous acts of kindness are, in a karma kind of way, are rewarded. The phoney philanthropy that Billy is doing is almost always to further his salesman agenda. He will be answering to God for his acts of thievery and greed.
65 • To nix_os_fan (by Mr. Pink. on 2006-01-12 00:56:54 GMT from United States)
The phoney philanthropy that Billy is doing is almost always to further his salesman agenda. He will be answering to God for his acts of thievery and greed.
I think your love for "nix_os" messed up you brain slightly.
66 • Taking second look at your post. (by Mr. Pink on 2006-01-12 01:08:18 GMT from United States)
If I win a lottery tomorrow, I would not be giving money to starving societies that have centuries and previous donations to correct their ways, I would be donating funds to ANYTHING open-source/freeware.
He will be answering to God
Who would Jesus help first? Children, neglected by society or open source projects?
Give it some more thought.
67 • Re: Mr. Gay, oops, I mean Pink... (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-12 05:15:52 GMT from Canada)
Dude, aren't you tired of giving money to third world countries where maybe 5 cents of every dollar MIGHT actually get to the people in the form of food. You mention starving children...hmmm...if I had a child with ribs showing and flies crawling all over it, I WOULDN'T CREATE 10 MORE CHILDREN THAT I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO FEED. Stfu, *sshole, you know sh*t. If I contributed money to open-source software, some of those starving children may actually get out of their situations by LEARNING ON A COMPUTER WITH GOOD/FREE SOFTWARE ON IT. I really don't think many of the people in the third world have $600 american to put an M$ OS and M$ office suite on a computer.
On a different note, I installed Debian and am beating the pulp out of it. It is standing up to alot more abuse than Mepis, Knoppix and Kanotix. I am a little confused about having to install an alsa package and the old 2.4/686 kernel to get some fricken sound when alsa is supposed to be in the 2.6 series kernel. Also, why can I read and write to other partitions with the other three aforementioned distro's and not with the almighty Debian. Now that I have my head in the tigers mouth, the roar is not so loud, so to speak. >:-]
68 • Last whine about Debian... (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-12 05:54:46 GMT from Canada)
Why can't I read a udf cdrw? They can be read from the other three Debian based distro's. So let's see, if I want to import my favourites, etc., from my 'stash' partition or the backup on a cdrw, I can't unless I use a live cd to move files around. Everybody knows, you can't write to a Linux partition from Windoze. Don't the Debian developers even look at what other people are doing with their distro? Good thing I am learning my way around Linux, no matter the distro. I have FreeBSD in the corner of my eye, heh heh. >:-]
69 • #67 (by 3rdworld on 2006-01-12 10:48:09 GMT from Brazil)
"Dude, aren't you tired of giving money to third world countries"
O primeiro mundo não dá nada ao terceiro mundo, muito pelo contrário.
O primeiro mundo rouba recursos do terceiro mundo.
O primeiro mundo explora o 3o. mundo atraves de sub-empregos.
O primeiro mundo polui o mundo todo (Protocolo de Kyoto).
O primeiro mundo é primeiro mundo às custas do terceiro mundo.
Para cada americano ou canadense obeso quantas crianças
precisam morrer de fome na áfrica???
70 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-01-12 15:07:16 GMT from United States)
"I WOULDN'T CREATE 10 MORE CHILDREN THAT I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO FEED."
Although I feel terrible that there are starving people in this world, I can't help think that they bring it upon themselves. 2,000 years ago, there was a city called Rome that was home to 1,000,000 people. Before that, there were Greeks and Egyptians. I mean, the Europeans have figured out how to build a real society, the Chinese, Japanese, Australians, Americans, and many more. Not only that, when the industrialized countries brought schools, museums, doctors, and other good things to these underprivledged countries, all they did was spit and rebel. Perhaps they also brought some bad things, but are they really better off without an organizing country? What are they waiting for to move forward? So many others have and not only have, did so thousands of years ago. Are they waiting for a handout only to throw it away when it finally comes? Do they even know what to do with it?
That said, I'm a Linux user and do not use any Microsoft products. But, even though I prefer Linux and believe it to be a superior system, how can it compete with an organized corporation? Linux is so fragmented that it stands no real chance simply because it is unorganized. Think of it this way, it's like a thousand small tribes somewhere who have excellent weaponry, but what good is it when all they do is fight each other and do not unify against the large, inferior invading force? To many examples in history show this to be true. In a sense, Linux is the land of several barbaric tribes.
I can sum it up in one quote:
It is easy for a civilized man to be barbaric than a barbaric man to be civilized.
71 • Re: 70 • No subject (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-12 15:41:33 GMT from Canada)
My sentiments exactly. You sound like a wise person.
P.S. I figured out why I can't read and write to othe partitions from Debian. It's because Debian's quality assurance policy keeps it ancient compared to the likes of Kanotix, Knoppix and Mepis. Correct me if I am wrong but the good cross partition abilities start with kernel 2.6.12. Somebody always comes along and "builds a better mouse trap" (just look at the state of the north american auto industry, *cough-Japan-cough*). So now, I am going to pick the best of the three Debian off-shoot distro's for my .deb partition. I am leaning towards Knoppix because it is not too 'new'. Mepis is too broken NOW (I still have the 3.3 distro release >:-]) and Kanotix is a little too buggy (half of the time you can't even get it installed unless you dumb down the kernel parameters). >:-l
72 • DIY-Linux. (by Kim Krecht on 2006-01-12 18:16:08 GMT from Germany)
With the submission form non-functional ATM, and me being way too lazy to mail ;), here is a URI to a LFS-like (meta)distribution recently referred to on the lkml:
A package list can be easily obtained perusing the index of the x86 reference build pages, which is accessible under:
Keep it up.
73 • Lovely! (by Mr. Pink on 2006-01-13 02:32:10 GMT from United States)
67 • Re: Mr. Gay, oops, I mean Pink... (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-12 05:15:52 GMT from Canada)
74 • And the winner is...*drumroll*... (by email@example.com at 2006-01-13 04:37:08 GMT from Canada)
an old version of Mepis (Simply 3.3, Kernel 2.6.10) as root (fed up with the password pestering too). It has everything I want already, I know my way around it well and I find Warren did an excellent job integrating KDE with Debian in this version. Unlike other KDE/Debian distros, most of the KDE modules and settings actually work. The 'right click' menus have way more options than other distros. There is an actual nvidia driver that works (OpenGL). The generic driver in other distros makes anything OpenGL 'stutter'. If any noobs read this and want to try it, DON'T UPGRADE 'EVERYTHING', BIG MISTAKE, IT BREAKS THE OS! Just upgrade the main stuff like Firefox and OpenOffice. Use Synaptic, it makes Kpackage look like a hokey, FisherPrice lookin' joke. The only thing I have to 'manually' install is Sun Java to play online games at pogo.com (the games don't like the already installed version which gets overwritten or deleted in the plugins directory by the new version). Sun Java didn't work well the other distros or not at all. If I can figure out how to install Java from the instructions on the Sun site, so can you. I get the impression that if a kernel is overly tweaked for a distro, expect trouble from extra installed, third party or non-free software. Now if I can just find a good rpm distro to play with on the last free partition... >:-]
75 • re: #72 DIY-Linux (by x on 2006-01-13 07:00:59 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the info. I notice Ladislav has already placed it on the waiting list.
I was once advised to make my own if I was not happy with what was available. While the advice did not concern operating systems, it does seem to apply, especially with what I have seen in recent posts.
76 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-01-13 09:53:57 GMT from United States)
Is it just me or are the trolls of Mr. Pink, et al, less offensive than the recent homophobia and quasi-racist racist rants? I know people don't want to feed the trolls, but I wondered if I was alone in my indignation. This stuff doesn't belong here. (Not that I'm advocating racism. Just self-restraint and civility.)
77 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-01-13 10:27:30 GMT from United States)
read: I'm not advocating censorship, just self-restraint and civility
78 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-01-13 10:27:57 GMT from United States)
typo probably because I actually consider racism and censorship comparable evils
79 • Re: #74 (by Anonymous on 2006-01-13 16:34:12 GMT from Germany)
"Now if I can just find a good rpm distro to play with on the last free partition..."
Try PCLinuxOS 0.92
80 • Re: Dragonfly BSD and the above comments (by Haldir on 2006-01-13 18:01:39 GMT from United States)
I still haven't forgiven Dragonfly for deleting my /home directory partition in the first release. The review certainly doesn't make me feel that the distro has gotten much better since that time.
If ladislav feels like deleting all of the attaboy posts, I would also urge him to delete the other crap being posted. It shouldn't be that hard to understand that our posts should be relevant to linux/*bsd releases. Why anyone feels the need to post their own rants about completely unrelated topics is beyond me. And that isn't censorship, that is keeping the board on topic.
81 • Comment #74 & #79 (by Anonymous on 2006-01-13 19:02:12 GMT from United States)
After comment #74 I was going to say good luck.
But after #79, I'm going to try that combo, none of the others work. Any hints #79? Which boot loader and who gets the MBR? What goes first (I know it depends on who needs the MBR)? Can they share a swap & user partition?
82 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-01-13 20:14:14 GMT from United States)
I would rather read the 'Thanks for another great read!' posts than the type of bickering that started around #64 or 65.
And what's that I read about Debian being unable to read/write to other distro partitions (#68 and 71) but the live distros can? I use Debian at home and I can see *all* my partitions on my triple-boot sys.
The live cd's mentioned in #68 build desktop icons to help the noobs find their partitions. Sounds like someone needs to stay with distros that provide icons for them. Personally, I'd rather learn how the OS works and provide that access myself. And I did.
Now let me add something in the true spirit of this site. I recently loaded CentOS v4.2 to use as a training tool. At work I support several servers running RHEL v4. CentOS is a repackage of this RedHat product and is quickly becoming my distro of choice at work. It allows me to experiment with the OS without risking the integrity of our productional servers.
83 • Re: No Subject (by Misty on 2006-01-13 21:56:37 GMT from United States)
"Not only that, when the industrialized countries brought schools, museums, doctors, and other good things to these underprivledged countries, all they did was spit and rebel."
And all we have to do is bown down to our masters in return for all this? Let them treat us like animals to abuse while they exploit us for every thing they possibly can? Cool, where do we sign?
If your viewpoint wasn't so bigoted, you would see what the *invaders* did to these countries, along with all the advantages they brought. I frankly don't think it's worth it to have these advantages in return for being enslaved and beaten and/or raped on a regular basis. Apparently quite a number of people in various countries agree with me.
84 • FreeBSD (by Misty on 2006-01-13 22:03:51 GMT from United States)
I'm not attempting to trash FreeBSD by any means, but if you're interested in easy-to-use you might want to give DesktopBSD a whirl. It's still fairly new and in RC3 now, but from what I've heard few people have experienced any problems with it. It's rather skimpy on included software, but porting more is a breeze, even easier than APT on Debian-based Linux distros.
I'm going to be trying it soon myself. If it proves to be as easy to use as I'm hearing (and hearing often), I'll be recommending it to newbies over newbie-friendly Linux distros like Xandros, which is what I've recommended the most to those new to the *nix world.
85 • 82 • No subject (by Anonymous (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-13 23:13:24 GMT from Canada)
First of all, why would I lie about the almighty Debian not 'seeing' my other partitions. If you had of read correctly, I didn't specify partition type or file system. I COULDN'T ACCESS EXT3, RIESERFS AND FAT32! Second, I am still, relatively, a noob that doesn't want to become a self taught computer scientist to use Linux, BSD, Unix, Solaris or any other OS for that matter. I hate and despise B.G. and M$. I am searching for an easy to use (yes, point and click) alternative, thats all. My butt can't take countless hours on a computer chair researching every little trick, config' and tweak for Linux or any other OS. You are a computer elitist, looking down on a member of the general public 'hoard'. I have had zero computer schooling, yet I manage to build computers, load (different OS's, alot of the time, on the same machine), configure hardware, software, home networks and shared internet connections. >:-P
"I recently loaded CentOS v4.2 to use as a training tool."
Is this a recommendation, oh great one?
Listen genius, there is a growing army of disgruntled M$ users, something else has to step in to fill the void. Let the best OS rise to the top of the heap! Don't be surprised when Apple OS* gets released for 'clone' PC's. Their sudden use of Intel chips might be a clue. >:-l
86 • Re: 83 & 84 by Misty (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-13 23:30:30 GMT from Canada)
"beaten and/or raped on a regular basis."
Take an evening stroll in Harlem and let us know how you make out (assuming you are a female, even if you are not, you will still get beaten and robbed just like oppressed people you speak of. At least they got some government structure, schools, health care and new technologies).
"you might want to give DesktopBSD a whirl."
Have you seen the package list (or lack of)? Geeze! I NEED Firefox (with tons of plugins), OpenOffice, Thunderbird, CD burning, a good nvidia compatible xserver, just to name a few for starters. Thanks anyway. >:-]
87 • The verdict is in (by Mr. Pink on 2006-01-13 23:57:50 GMT from United States)
nix_os_fan you are an idiot.
88 • Re: 84 again-by Misty (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-13 23:59:26 GMT from Canada)
Umm, you could have mentioned to look at the FreeBSD package list because DesktopBSD is based on it. Anyway, my humble apology for 84 ONLY. >:-] I looked at the screenshots, looks great actually. I would dare to guess it would be more stable than lots of patched-to-death Linux kernels. >:-]
89 • Re: 87 • The verdict is in (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-14 00:02:29 GMT from Canada)
The verdict was in about your homosexuality and moronic posts ages ago. Little slow off the mark there, fagboy. >:-]
90 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-01-14 00:43:23 GMT from United States)
From the tone of the above posts it seems the time has come to require registration on the website to allow posting. Then Ladislav can weed out the non-productive immature posters.
85: No, it was not a recommendation. Just a posting on a site that describes itself as " ...a weekly opinion column about the current happenings in the world of Linux distributions". It was my "reader feedback" on the subject that this website was created for.
Anyway, I do appreciate the 'genius' comment...
91 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2006-01-14 00:55:05 GMT from United States)
Ladislav. The caliber of your readers should make you cry.
92 • *nix OS fan (by Misty on 2006-01-14 02:24:09 GMT from United States)
"Take an evening stroll in Harlem and let us know how you make out (assuming you are a female, even if you are not, you will still get beaten and robbed just like oppressed people you speak of. At least they got some government structure, schools, health care and new technologies)."
And what are you willing to do to help the victims of such crimes?
My point was that when countries incade other countries, whether or not they bring these "advantages", that's not only what happens, but the invaders make it legal for them to commit such atrocities. And usually it becomes illegal to defend yourself as well. Imagine - people invade your country and it's suddenly legal for the invaders to enslave you, beat you, rape you, do the same to your whole family, pretty much anything they want. But hey, at least they're bringing schools, computers and stuff. Not that you'll ever be able to afford any of it, or that it's all that important when your conquerors take so much of the food available that your children are starving to death.
Think that's an exaggeration? It's happening right now and it's been happening for centuries.
"Have you seen the package list (or lack of)? Geeze! I NEED Firefox (with tons of plugins), OpenOffice, Thunderbird, CD burning, a good nvidia compatible xserver, just to name a few for starters. Thanks anyway. >:-]"
The package manager to port additional software is easy to figure out, even for children; it would seem to be even easier to use than APT, which I've considered pretty easy for a long time. It even describes what a package does if you aren't familiar with it. The only disadvantage here that I see - and I'm not absolutely certain about this - is that Cedega and Crossover won't work on it, but as I just said, I could be wrong about that.
93 • Re: No Subject (by Misty on 2006-01-14 02:27:40 GMT from United States)
"From the tone of the above posts it seems the time has come to require registration on the website to allow posting. Then Ladislav can weed out the non-productive immature posters."
Agreed. There's disagreement and even some flaming to be expected, but this has clearly gone beyond that.
94 • Status of Knoppix/Mepis release (by winsnomore on 2006-01-14 04:18:43 GMT from United States)
Folks .. I have been patiently waiting for new Mepis .. and even Knoppix is long overdue
Anyone has any info ..
95 • Re: 92 • *nix OS fan by Misty (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-14 05:26:08 GMT from Canada)
"The package manager to port additional software is easy to figure out, even for children"
Did you not read 84 before you wrote that?
"My point was that when countries incade (sic) other countries, whether or not they bring these "advantages", that's not only what happens, but the invaders make it legal for them to commit such atrocities. And usually it becomes illegal to defend yourself as well."
Sounds like Iraq, Misty from the United States of Invade Oil Rich Countries of America. Geeze. >:-P Why don't you and your cronies install another racist (New Orleans), redneck greedy *sshole into the White House. Duh. Have you noticed Bush doesn't invade where there is nothing to be gained? Same for previous administrations, for that matter. Americans had a chance to kick the clown out but just like that pig, Clinton, you voted him right back in. The world is getting tired of USA born imperialism, your country is going broke from war and the Chinese are taking all of your jobs (go to a Wal-Mart and look at the sticker on the bottom of EVERYTHING). Way to go! Now go get into that gas-guzzling, oil economy born monstrosity in the driveway and go **** yourself.
96 • Misty: typo in 95... (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-14 05:31:26 GMT from Canada)
"Did you not read 84 before you wrote that?"
Should have read "88" (but I am still not apologizing for anything else, Bush hasn't invaded us for our water and softwood yet so there is still freedom of speech here). >:-P
97 • one good thing comes out of all of this (by Anonymous on 2006-01-14 14:05:08 GMT from United States)
GNU/Linux: it isn't just for thoughtful, intelligent people anymore.
98 • Re: 97 • one good thing comes out of all of this (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-14 16:07:11 GMT from Canada)
Having a revelation about yourself Anonoymous? Thoughtful includes using a few brain cells to make up a nick' (then again, if there is a lack of intelligence...). The only reason I don't use my 'real' email is because there are just too many spammers around, everywhere. Why are you hiding? >:-P
99 • nix_os_fan & Misty (by x on 2006-01-15 05:56:57 GMT from United States)
I have been reading your comments and fail to understand why you are using this forum. Most of what you have to say needs to be posted on the forum of the appropriate distributions' site to address the problems you are encountering. As to your opinions about other issues, I am sure there are more appropriate sites.
I would like to avoid the necessity of having to register in order to post, so let us stay focused on the primary topic of Distrowatch, there is more than enough material to discuss.
100 • A distribution choice helper (by Tobu on 2006-01-15 13:13:33 GMT from France)
Here is a quizz to help people define what is the right distribution for them: http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/ . It was good enough to guess what I was using: debian and ubuntu. It doesn't list as many distros as distrowatch of course.
101 • Distro Details .. (by winsnomore on 2006-01-15 15:10:23 GMT from United States)
Request to Ladislav:
Adding a default boot loader used by Distro installer would be useful addition to the spec's, particulary as some distro's don't install/run well with the alternate i.e grub/lilo.
102 • Re: 99 • nix_os_fan & Misty by x (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-15 17:04:03 GMT from Canada)
Dear x, all I did was state my preference to make financial contributions to open-source software as opposed to some thirdworld catering charity which gobbles up $0.95 of every dollar. There will always be some ultra politically-correct fruitcake taking offense to just about anything. I, myself, personally, will stick to discussing anything open-source (which I love a great deal) in the future. My temper sometimes lets me get dragged down to the level of others on occasion.
103 • Re: 79 • Re: #74 by Anonymous (PCLinuxOS) (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-16 07:06:43 GMT from Canada)
PCLinuxOS (0.92 nvidia7676) is very nice indeed. A few bugs but less than most. RP-pppoe gives a warning about permissions for the folder /etc/ppp. Had to go to it and disable Group to read only, then I was on the internet just like that. Bizzare. Tried both sound drivers to no avail. My ess allegro 1988 works about 75% of the time with no configuring in other distro's. This is not a bug but a pet peeve, the K menu is obviously a custom arrangement disaster by the author. I find that with most rpm based distros, the arrangement of the K menu is a joke. Overall, this distro feels stable and the eye candy 'XP' theme is pretty nice (I thought I wouldn't like it but I am pleasantly surprised). Thankyou for suggesting it! Next stop on the open-source express...DesktopBSD 1.0 rc3. This is just so much fun, it has got to be criminal! >:-]
P.S. After hitting F2 and setting the kernel/video parameters, I had full Nvidia video (85Hz with fast and smooth OpenGL) IN THE LIVE DESKTOP! This is almost unheard of and absolutely amazing! >:-] To anyone reading this and wanting to try it, you have to dig around for the "nvidia7676" version of 0.92, this is specifically for "newer" Nvidia graphics cards. >;-l What perplexes me a little is that the author wants to make this a super noob friendly distro but you have the kernel tweaks at boot and the bizzare problem with rp-pppoe. If I did not know my way around Linux a little, I would have been scr*wed for internet and decent video. Hmmmm. >:-l
104 • Sound is now working in PCLinuxOS... (by nix_os_fan on 2006-01-16 07:32:45 GMT from Canada)
I went to a website that has Java applet games w/sound and it just started working. Then in the KDE control center sound module, I got an error trying to check 'real time priority', something about an aRts 'wrapper' missing or not functioning. My guess is, the 'wrapper' is breaking the sound server and the Java is breaking the 'wrapper'. I wonder if 'Flash' is going to lock me up now? >:-l
Number of Comments: 104
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