| DistroWatch Weekly
1 • First in Line (by piale on 2005-08-01 10:31:33 GMT from Mauritius) |
i Just want to know what Microsoft is afraid of when it comes to GnuLinux Since they think they have the best Os in the world. Why can't he live and lets us live also
2 • Fedora-izing the suse distro (by Markus on 2005-08-01 10:34:35 GMT from Germany)
indeed, some changes are quite better for Suse, but on the other
hand: Whats about Suse-izing of Fedora? e.g. the Package Manager
of Fedora has to be "Yast-izised".
Just my flat
3 • Debianization of SuSE and Fedora (by hobbitland on 2005-08-01 10:46:39 GMT from United Kingdom)
I will say Debianization of SuSE and Fedora would be nice.
4 • Microsoft Preparing Linux Lawsuits (by EPedersen on 2005-08-01 11:01:44 GMT from United States)
I am thinking that there may be more to the Microsoft and Red Hat story coming in the future. It is possible that I am mixing facts with hearsay and rumor, however, I think that the two companies are in the early stages of negotiating some business together. We have the proported "mystery luncheon meeting" between the two companies. We have Microsoft showing interest in the open source model by hiring Mr. Robbins, a former Gentoo developer (so that MS could learn more about the open source model). We have the paid survey as mentioned in this weeks DistroWatch article: "hypothetical situation that Microsoft granted patent rights to Red Hat, but not to other Linux vendors, then asked: "How would that impact your interest in deploying other brands of Linux in your IT system? ( I read this as: If Microsoft endorsed Red Hat would you still use Novell, Debian.. et al?)
We have the announcement of the Fedora Foundation- thus spinning off Red-Hat development into it's own segment.
I think that MS and Red Hat will eventually form a business relationship wherebye Microsoft will represent the Windows segment and Red-Hat will represent the Open Source segment- and it will all be under the same "Red Mond" roof.
5 • SUSE - Fedora (by Philip Moore on 2005-08-01 11:28:09 GMT from United States)
I think that SUSE turning into a project like Fedora is a great idea. I have thought of that before. I believe it would be best for the long term viability of the distro. It would also more then likely increase their market share which is alway a good thing.
6 • Debianization of SuSE and Fedora (by hobbitland on 2005-08-01 11:29:41 GMT from United Kingdom)
I will say Debianization of SuSE and Fedora would be nice.
7 • Great Work Ladislav (by Mark Kowarsky on 2005-08-01 11:41:47 GMT from Australia)
Thankyou for another excellent distrowatch weekly. You do an excellent job for the OS community. Enjoy your holidays.
8 • Opening SuSE (by Dave Mitchell on 2005-08-01 11:42:38 GMT from Australia)
I'd switch to SuSE tomorrow if it was opened up. At the moment, I'm using Ubuntu and Mepis, primarily because they're Debian-based and I like the philosophy of Debian.
However, there are some things that are difficult to do with Debian-based distros that are available "out of the box" in SuSE. I've thought of bringing up one box in SuSE, but am having second thoughts because of the closed nature of the distro. Open it, and I'll be on board.
9 • Anti-RH FUD (by Anonymous on 2005-08-01 11:43:23 GMT from United States)
I'm sure you mean well, but your speculation is FUD of Microsoftic proportions. Please don't unwittingly play into their hands, because they it appears they are realizing how endangered their business model will become over the next several years. They are starting to get desparate, now (far ahead of schedule) -- and a desparate Microsoft will be a dangerous thing.
Red Hat is one of a handful of vendors that has kept their distribution purely Open Source. In fact, every new aquisition becomes Open Sourced, whether it's Cygwin, Netscape server, etc. In addition, Red Hat has proven to be a leader in the fight against anti-innovative patents and in protecting Free and Open Source software. You might do well to review their positions on these matters, then ask if your OS vendor does the same:
And, here, you may find the respective positions of three leading Linux companies:
10 • microsoft (by Anonymous on 2005-08-01 12:36:18 GMT from United States)
since MS dosent like linux or mac for the fact. If they buy them out or have a law suit that stopps the creation of the softwaer from a developer, that would clearly state that they have a monoply.
11 • Anti-RH FUD (by EPedersen on 2005-08-01 13:01:31 GMT from United States)
I didn't mean to suggest any malice or contempt at all in my previous post. I was simply stating what I see as a possible merger of MS and Red Hat in the future. You have stated it well yourself: "they (Microsoft) are realizing how endangered their business model will become over the next several years. They are starting to get desparate, now (far ahead of schedule)"
I agree with you. If the battle of fighting Open Source is too large, then why not encompass the battle and bring Linux into it's own offering. Thus my prognostication that MS and Red Hat will forge into some agreement in the future. This has neither good nor bad ramifications yet. It is simply what I predict for the future.
12 • M$ (by AnoBG on 2005-08-01 13:11:52 GMT from Bulgaria)
It is clear for everyone that MicroSoft is a monopoly in a real-world terms. So what? US government will not pursue for monopolistic behaviour such a big tax payer. Linux companies should base their operations in EU, which (hopefully) recently relaxed the software patents unlike the efforts of the big software companies.
13 • New Distro (by Jeff on 2005-08-01 13:25:43 GMT from United States)
Debian is my favorite distro. Debianization is fine by me. Debianizing other distros should be done carefully as to not destroy that distro's strengths.
Has anyone worked with Debian Pure? www.debianpure.com They also have a Mepis remaster available. Anyone else working with it?
14 • KUBUNTU (by superstoned on 2005-08-01 13:37:10 GMT from Netherlands)
they should definately delay the breezy release for KDE 3.5... after all, the release schedule of ubuntu (which they follow) is based on gnome's release schedule. so kubuntu's should be based on KDE's schedule, imho!
15 • EU may have stopped the software patents but europe is nobetter. (by Scott Wilson on 2005-08-01 13:39:40 GMT from United States)
"Linux companies should base their operations in EU, which (hopefully) recently relaxed the software patents unlike the efforts of the big software companies." The EU is no better, sure they found MS gulity being a monopoly. Lets make them unbundle the media player, Yes we are great powerful OZ. See we care about about you...Have you notice how all of the streaming media is now Windows Media player. We need to get companies to produce cross platform apps, makeing a knock off "opensource" program is not the answer, then we would nt have to worry about patent lawsuits. I dont know about Europe but every other Commerial (or so it seems to be MS promtional PR, Thast is were we are getting or rear ends kicked!
16 • RH (by Chuck at 2005-08-01 13:56:38 GMT from United States)
RedHat has, as far as I can tell, done nothing to make people think they are anything but open. just look at the number of RH based distros out, Fedora, CentOS, Whitebox, and others that are easily found on DW.
17 • YAST? Sure if the only medium to update from were CDs/DVDs (by escapenguin on 2005-08-01 14:31:39 GMT from United States)
First, YAST is horrible. If you don't think so, you probably just haven't used anything better.
I've tried SUSE sporadically year after year, and YAST always pissed me off so much I'd get rid of it. It never changes, it's still unintelligent, frustrating, idiotic. Even if that's not possible for a program, it's idiotic the developers keep putting it out year after year and never fixing it. Especially since everyone complains about it! I think this would be a good time for SUSE to suck up their damn pride and try implementing something better.
I support the Debanizing of SUSE if that means we don't have to wait a decade per release, and get something that's comparatively stable without the annoying political nonsense.
18 • The Gates Fall, (MS can't fly with broken wings!). (by Carl Hewlett on 2005-08-01 14:42:48 GMT from United States)
It is time for the people to vote with their wallets! Just pull the plug on Bill Gates and his band of pirates, (don't purchase the new software distros). Get Open source into the schools. Thats the real breeding ground for change. The kids will get the message and spead it to home use. (Thats the MAC model from the 80's, (Remeber)). Don't worry so much about the future, act now. You can't sit around, and worry about how fast the corn is going to go thru your body, (or you will not gather more corn)! I am helping the schools in Fitzgerald, GA, United States, change over to UBUNTU. This is a start for our area. Get out and preech to the new users, (not the converted). Remember that you eat an elephant one bite at the time.
Hewlett Design & Development
19 • Suse just fine (by Buster Ellis on 2005-08-01 14:46:17 GMT from Canada)
If Suse finds itself in trouble, then change the process. But personally, I find the solidity and reliability of Suse very pleasant just the way it is - and there is room for it in the Linux galaxy. We have Fedora, Mandriva and Debian for those who wish to participate in a distro, and many more opportunities with clones based upon these distros. I vote for leaving Suse alone until it has to change, if that time ever comes.
20 • Applause for the DW donation programme (by Tofu Bandit on 2005-08-01 15:11:43 GMT from United States)
I must applaud distrowatch and Ladislav for the DW donations programme. It's great to see so many worthwhile projects receiving support from this site (and community). $4655 is an impressive number.
Everytime there's been a large consensus built in the comments for a certain project to receive the donation, Ladislav has gone with that project. When there isn't a consensus or the comments are otherwise silent on the subject and we learn of the donation in the DW Weekly, I always find myself saying, "yeah, yeah - that was exactly the right project to choose."
Bravo, Ladislav, bravo!
21 • Media on the Web (by William Roddy on 2005-08-01 15:38:50 GMT from United States)
Almost every Web site is increasing its video streaming content. Some, like the BBC and the New York Times, give the option of RealPlayer or WMP. Others, like CNN, CBS -- and far too many others -- require WMP.
The only way I know of to stream media from some of the places I want to view is to use MPlayer and the w32codes. A few distributions, like KANOTIX, come with multimedia install (except for w32codecs). Others, like Ubuntu, do not (for reasons of open-source philosophies). In the case of Ubuntu, a very good distribution, one cannot install MPlayer at all, due to dependency conflicts.
As I see it, this is currently the most prominent hurdle for Linux to cross, in trying to present universally user-friendly distributions.
Is there now any other simple way with which to stream all media content using Linux? What is the solution?
Have a great holiday, Ladislav. And congratulations on another excellent issue.
22 • Maybe Mandriva is a better target than Fedora? (by Buchan Milne on 2005-08-01 15:40:03 GMT from Mauritius)
Until all aspects of Fedora are *really* open to the community (http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/ still says CVS write access is a long way away - the "real soon now" has been there for almost 2 years now), I think Mandriva would be a better target to aim for if you're asking about seeing more community involvement in the distro.
(maintainer of a number of packages in the "main" repository of Mandriva)
23 • Suse (by Mereo on 2005-08-01 15:43:28 GMT from Canada)
I also think we should leave Suse alone. Even if Suse disappear oneday, I won't mind at all ^_^. Because no matter how hard Suse tries, it can't do better than Red Hat and it can't be free/open like Ubuntu either. The thing is once you go commercial for a such long time, hard to go back...
24 • What can't Debian do? (by DaveW on 2005-08-01 15:56:05 GMT from United States)
Dave Mitchell, you said "However, there are some things that are difficult to do with Debian-based distros that are available "out of the box" in SuSE."
I use Mepis and have never tried Suse, so I'm curious as to what you can do with Suse that's difficult with Mepis. Ubuntu, I can understand you have to install non-free apps like Real and Acrobat yourself if you want to, but not with Mepis. Care to elaborate?
25 • Exactly who doesn't need it gets the moeny! (by Great on 2005-08-01 16:05:40 GMT from United States)
" We are pleased to announce that the recipient of our July 2005 donation is the GNOME Foundation."
So the most commercially backed project with loads of $ from Novell, Sun and other companies gets Distrowatch's largest donation. Might as well have given Microsoft some of that money!
26 • Next Donation (by Alan Moser on 2005-08-01 18:03:05 GMT from United States)
I think that the next donation should go to the Mozilla Foundation, I mean, they have done so much to help push open source into mainstream computing (Firefox). I think it would be a nice thank you toward those developers
27 • Next donation (by hughesjr on 2005-08-01 18:13:12 GMT from United States)
The CentOS Project would also be a good donation target.
(There have been several recent announcements for RHEL rebuild releases, most of them at least a month AFTER CentOS has already released that specific version)
28 • SUSE (by edwin at 2005-08-01 18:52:08 GMT from Peru)
SUSE is the best distro in the market IMO, the only problem is that it is not clear if they (Novell) will sometime in the future change their license policies or if it always be available as until now.
I use it in a 24x7x365 produntion environment for 2 years with no problem I also use it in the desktop and all the software just works with little or no intervention (dvd, mp3, printing, etc).
I' have tested RH4, Debian3.x, Slackware x.x, Mandr* x.x, etc, etc but SUSE is unbeatable.
I must also add, that for teaching I use Debian (because of their filosophy), but if SUSE were as open as Debian I would certainly use SUSE.
29 • RH (by Anonymous on 2005-08-01 19:22:39 GMT from United States)
The way I see it.
As it is now and MS knows it next year...
Just like XP 5 years ago.
Windows vista will cost too much for people to buy a "home" edition. Not enough is new so there is no reason to upgrade.
MS wants to secure out the hackers and everyone who doesn't have a agreement/license with MS. Some will buy new computers with Windows Vista on it.
Windows has a agreement that lets RH market a home edition with the 64bit NTFS, w32codecs and win modem drivers etc. (sell for $100 a year US per PC if you have XP $200 if you don't, raise it $25 a year).
MS then has law suits with everyone else.
Drop updates for XP. Waits...
Everyones parents and uncles buy "Windows Vista Home powered by Red Hat" so they can play blue ray DVD's (or other new large format) because their TV's won't play them or they'll have to buy the media center edition of windows vista.
Then if all goes well with the courts, buy RH and let it die on the vine or just end the agreement. Pull all codecs on a "monthly security update" or let it display in black and white with mono sound and a big ghost windows logo on screen.
Everyone buys windows vista full version for home or a media center for each of their TV's. Oh, and don't forget 4:3 broadcast TV (analog) goes black in US in a little over a year in the US and we'll have to buy cable type boxes (or media center PC's) for us to get by the DRM for reruns on PBS for free. Or buy the boxes and pay double for your cable or satelite TV.
The perfect storm?
30 • Suse (by james on 2005-08-01 19:53:25 GMT from United States)
Suse is great go! suse i see it at all of the stores that means anyone can get it ! they say the have over 500 workers ! so thats that
Distrowatch rules !
31 • SuSE should NOT be Fedora'ed... (by torque2k on 2005-08-01 21:04:48 GMT from United States)
I've used both SuSE and RH for about six years now, as well as many others such as Gentoo and Debian/Ubuntu. Of all distros, SuSE and RH have been the most stable for the long haul. I've still got a server running RH 7.2, and I'll probably leave it alone until it dies.
When Fedora Core 1 was released, I tried it. It was OK, but I preferred RH 9. FC2 came out, and I was hooked! It performed better on my desktops and notebooks than anything else, even SuSE. But once SuSE 9 came out, I started seeing the benefits of heavy commercial support (in a business environment). RHEL was a step forward as well, and didn't break like FC seemed to, but it was more outdated than SuSE at every release.
Fedora Core 3 came out, and I swear I broke the CDs after trying to get it stable on two desktops and a notebook. Fedora Core 4 was OK on the desktops again, but the notebooks I tried it on were broken within minutes of installing.
SuSE 9.1 was almost flawless on all of my machines. I skipped 9.2 because it was so good. When I recently downloaded 9.3 (yeay, Novell!), I was again floored with how well it picked up all of my hardware, including my Lucent modems and D-Link (atheros) 54G cards!
If Fedora is the future, and SuSE/Novell is being asked to follow its development path, I'm afraid for SuSE's future. Please DON'T open SuSE. There are plenty of other distros out there for people who don't like the way it's developed. For those of us looking for a stable Windows replacement, Novell's got the right mix.
And I don't mind YaST at all. Haven't had it fail on me yet for any reason.
32 • Suse is Great (by Jeremy on 2005-08-01 21:34:58 GMT from United States)
I think the last thing Novell should do is to follow in Fedora's footsteps. Suse is a great distro. Far better than Fedora in my opinion. Novell shouldn't change a thing unless they absolutely have to in order to keep Suse alive. If it isn't broken, don't fix it!!
33 • "Fedora-izing" SUSE Linux (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-08-01 22:21:04 GMT from Italy)
I am in favour.
Everything you do to SUSE can only make it better.
This comes from somebody who until 3 months ago dual booted SUSE and Debian, who was in love with SUSE 9.0 and has posted literally thousands of times to help other users with SUSE.
Now I wonder how I could like both SUSE and Debian: in a word: Debian is pure freedom, SUSE is a straitjacket.
34 • And BTW... (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-08-01 22:25:06 GMT from Italy)
SUSE has a really big community of developers and the number of packages you can get from SUSE apt is simply amazing.
Therefore SUSE makes a very good candidate to become a community project.
Thanks Ladislav for suggesting this discussion.
35 • "Fedora-izing" SUSE Linux. (by anonymous linux user on 2005-08-01 22:57:07 GMT from United States)
I have used both Red Hat, and Suse for a long time (about 5 yrs), lamost every version.
For a long time, I thought SuSE had something complementing Red Hat: better hardware detection and support, and an better system management tool (YAST).
Also I prefered the better KDE support by SuSe.
I loved both distros for their stability overall (in my view) superior to most distros.
Now (summer 2005), I am having second thoughts:
I still love Suse's YAST, as a better integrated system management tool, but in many areas, Fedora has made significant progresses, and (to me) is much more stable, reliable.
Also Fedora kept (in my view) a good balance of a clean system (not blooted by unnecessarry stuff) when SuSE seems to have spent more times to make ethically questionable screens than enhancing its base which is a stable system, easy to maintain.
So Fedorazing SuSE or SuSefying Fedora would make lots of sense, since they have both complementary qualities...
I am wondering how much time is Red Hat or the Fedora "crew of volunters" spending designing a better system managment tool?
Actually, most of the pieces already exist, in KCONTROL, SYNAPTIC, the old KPACKAGE, and the little fragmented system-config-xxxxx utilities....
On SuSe, I would say from my unsatisfactory 9.3 experience:
1) Focus on bug cleanning, and better hardware support.
2) Better support XFS (even FC4 could enhance this).
3) Forget any super fancy eyes candy, KDE and Gnome both do a great job there.
4) Keep it simple, open please!
5) Provide a release candidate for "hackers to test" at least 3 month before release.
1) Continue and keep the good job.
2) Make it easier to use even for "non geeks" by providing a better system managment tool(s), allowing (like Suse does well) most system action to be done in a few mouse clicks.
Try to no fragment Linux too much, this has killed UNIX in the past.
Ideally RPM packages should all run on both distros without requiring specific Fedora or SUSE RPM's!
Here product differentiation obtaine at the cost of incompatibility is (too me) a major mistake.
But product differentiation obtained by providing what is usefull... and missing to the competion, is the place to look at.
Hope I did not step on someon'es feet !
36 • mepis open or closed (by mike wahlstrom on 2005-08-01 23:24:09 GMT from Canada)
I was reading on the Mepis forums that Warren Woodford does not release his code as open source. Is this true.
I don't think all code has to be open source, but when you make your base around open source you should do the same thing. I really like mepis but if this is true I will never use it again.
37 • Arch linux rocks (by mike wahlstrom on 2005-08-01 23:29:32 GMT from Canada)
I think Arch linux should get the donation. Arch linux is one of the most underrated linux distros. It is not a rehash of another distro it is its own distro. If you like gentoo you will love Arch linux.
What do you think of Arch linux?
38 • SUSE LINUX (by mike wahlstrom on 2005-08-01 23:38:09 GMT from Canada)
The best distros for community involvement are gentoo, ubuntu, debian
This is the main reason that these distros are so popular especially ubuntu
If Suse wants to open up the development of their distro they should look at these distros
Fedora had problems at first but it looks like they are stating to get the hang of it. Fedora is a good project don't give up on it.
39 • How to install Enlightenment 17 to Vectorlinux (by lnxbrzr1 at 2005-08-01 23:50:58 GMT from Canada)
Thanks Ladislav for the article on installing E17 on VL5.1
Here is my 'hassle free' way to install E17 on VLSOHO 5.01:
Go to http://www.linuxpackages.net (an excellent Slackware
site) and download enlightenment-0.17.0.cvs (slackware version
10.1 packaged by Adi Roiban) to your /home directory.
Open Konqueror file manager and right click on the enlightenment
file that you just downloaded and from the dropdown menu
select ACTIONS>VECTORLINUX PACKAGE>INSTALL.
Now that Enlightenment is installed: log out of the current
session and log back in> select session>enlightenment.
This is not the only distribution that uses E16 or 17 that is
Alinux (Peanut linux) has enlightenment configured with
'eye candy' (audio too!)
Your Mileage May Vary
40 • SUSE LINUX (by mike wahlstrom on 2005-08-02 00:03:49 GMT from Canada)
The best distros for community involvement are gentoo, ubuntu, debian
This is the main reason that these distros are so popular especially ubuntu
If Suse wants to open up the development of their distro they should look at these distros
Fedora had problems at first but it looks like they are stating to get the hang of it. Fedora is a good project don't give up on it.
41 • Red Hat is utmostly venal (by Enrico Fermi on 2005-08-02 00:10:56 GMT from Canada)
Don't forget Red Hat introduced Linux to the stock Exchange. The GPL was never intended for such an endeavour, but Bob Young knew he thus could get Red Hat a reputation of solidity, not for its technical merits, but because it could then stand loosing millions for decades without facing bankruptcy. (Don't forget the second offering was at around $100 / share!)
How it seemingly escaped every suit investors launched against it is anyone's guess, but one thing is sure: Red Hat is a money company, its administrators believe in nothing else. While developers couldn't get their hands on the shares they were promised, Bob Young and his wife got all theirs and they sold before the bubble was completely deflated. The couple is now pretty close to being billionnaires without Bob ever writing a line of code. (At least, Gates did!) Red Hat never looked back at how it has drained just about every source of financing for other Linux distros by giving investors a dreaful experience with Linux. (Mandrake got next to nothing from Euronext Marché Libre and SuSE had to surrender to Novell.)
So if Microsoft was to offer a nice lump, Red Hat would consider it an offer it can't refuse. Red Hat is utmostly venal, it would go for any deal with the devil himself.
This fact couldn't escape Microsoft's attention.
42 • win?Linux (by titiv on 2005-08-02 01:02:43 GMT from France)
I am not certain of the fututure but obviously the NIET NO NON from Europe to the patents have already some effect on our friend Bill.
He most probably had preapared his fututre move against Linux but have to wait now, and for sure take an other angle for it's attacks.
The time for rivality has just begin I guess, and if you have a chance have a look on the the win-Vista beta and I guess you will understand that the next move is not in the challenger camp, " they" must do something for sure now, because there product is a "crap", they will not have other choice (if you add the apple X arrival ....).
In a war unfortuntaly there is deads, betrayers but as well heroes, just the end will show the winner and I only hope that it will not be the money for the money this time.
Money is important Ubuntu by exemple could not exist without his rich donator it's just a matter how and why you use it.
The world is changing and as some "superpuissance" Microsoft would like to keep it as it is and as a "superpuissance" they will not care of the "colaterals casualties ".unfortunatly for us the only way is to resist.
43 • Vector 5.1 Linux on what mirrors? (by ChiJoan on 2005-08-02 01:29:00 GMT from United States)
Is anyone else able to download it? First I thought it was my WinXP and other programs blocking them. But I couldn't get it on newly installed Vector 5.0 SOHO either. I need to try the new version to see if it will auto-detect where my VGA monitor is pluged into. The motherboard video is too old to use...640x480 and why do some Linux distros work right (Linspire 4.5) and others not?
Thanks for a great site, also thanks for the Puppy Linux news. They continue to grow this lifesaver of a distro. Ever have the RAM die on your laptop and need to conect to the Web? Windows sure couldn't do it in 64 RAM. Maybe some day the UbuntoLite people will think better of me mentioning it to them.
Have a good rest,
44 • No subject (by firstname.lastname@example.org on 2005-08-02 02:00:47 GMT from Philippines)
enjoy your vacation then ladislav!
guys, have you not noticed that distrowatch monthly donation is slowly increasing? ie you can subtract $50 dollars of linuxcd.org but still you get a high value. it seems that distrowatch is really getting popular. and even the amount of comments in every distrowatch weekly have been too much as compared to when it started. o well. blame ladislav for being too good on this =)
45 • re: arch linux rocks (by charlie on 2005-08-02 02:39:37 GMT from United States)
to the guy who wants the next donation to go to arch...
um, did you look at the list above of prior recipients? perhaps the one for 10/2004 might interest you? :p
46 • Adam Doxtater? Oh boy... (by MadHunter on 2005-08-02 02:41:33 GMT from United States)
It's bad enough that we have to listen to his biased, opinionated outlook on one website, but now he's bringing his "unique" views to Distrowatch???
THE PLANET IS DOOMED!
- The opinions of the poster of this message only reflect the thoughts, ideas and beliefs of all who care.
47 • Slackware should get donation next month (by Brian P. on 2005-08-02 03:04:59 GMT from United States)
Very good edition of DW.....I love the site and look forward to it every week!!!! Enjoy the rest..
I vote for slackware to get next month's donation.......It is a great distro that has been around for years and is rock solid.........
48 • who cares if Linmodems work with SuSE? (by escapenguin on 2005-08-02 04:41:43 GMT from United States)
Every time you support a distribution that encourages hardware manufacturers to keep specifications on their products (at the very least) closed source, you might as well shoot yourself in the foot.
You might as well not use Linux. You encourage counter-productive and ultimately destructive behaviour by patting them on the back.
Pay close attention. Everyone pores over every damn detail with the software they use, it's time to start looking at the hardware you want in depth before you buy it impulsively. Before you plunk down the cash for that brand new wifi-adapter, first check and see if it's compatible with Linux or a BSD.
Software advocacy isn't enough if there's nothing with which to use it!
49 • Fedora-izing SUSE (by Ariszló on 2005-08-02 08:20:23 GMT from Hungary)
Launching a SUSE-supervised open project would be nice but crippling KDE as in Fedora would be sickening.
50 • KDE (by Ariszló on 2005-08-02 08:26:58 GMT from Hungary)
Why not counter-balance the donation to Gnome?
51 • Re: Slackware should get donation next month (by Ariszló on 2005-08-02 08:32:42 GMT from Hungary)
Yes, Slackware or KDE would deserve it.
52 • Legacy OS support (by Nathnial Whapcaplett on 2005-08-02 11:03:27 GMT from United Kingdom)
In view of the rumours surrounding a merger of Red Hat and Microsoft, it would be interesting to ask if anyone is still running aLegacy OS like RHEL and MS Windows in the modern enterprise environment
viva la rezolution !
53 • Fedorarize SUSE (by Kondor Vlastos on 2005-08-02 18:14:24 GMT from United States)
Leave SUSE alone! The SUSE distros have always been superb. SUSE development should remain in-house, at the least as a cost saving factor. Why should they have to take on the additional burden of monitoring outside developers? The fact that they release the source is should be enough. Obviously, Novell is satisfied or they wouldn't have purchased SUSE. SUSE has always had excellent support, in addition.
Why would anyone suppose that Fedora is the greatest effort going? It is primarily a test bed, a free resource for RH. Anyone that has ever tried to update either RH (without paying a special fee) or Fedora can well appreciate the speed of a Yast online update with SUSE.
Ubuntu (Debian) is far more popular than Fedora and considering that the project is in its infancy, its success is astounding. When has RH ever given anything to anyone? Ubuntu will even furnish a cd free of charge. And, the Synaptic package manager has anything offered by RH/Fedora beaten by miles.
What a relief it is that Fedora is NOT the only thing out there.
54 • Re: Fedorarize SUSE by Kondor Vlastos (by Troll Collector on 2005-08-02 18:47:21 GMT from United States)
"When has RH ever given anything to anyone?"
Nice troll. I'll bite.
How about RPM, Cygwin, kernel contributions (ever heard of Alan Cox?), GNOME contributions, PostgreSQL contributions, Netscape Directory, Fedora Project, to name a few. Now, here's the next question, "When has [insert your favorite distribution here] ever given anything to anyone?"
Another pretty good benchmark for the "open-ness" or "contributions" made by a specific distribution are the number of derivations it has produced or is capable of producing. Red Hat/Fedora are definitely a leader in this category. While SUSE is a fine distribution, it pales to RH in this respect, although it has gotten much better since Novell acquired SUSE and Ximian.
55 • Fedora-izing SUSE (by BA on 2005-08-02 19:05:31 GMT from United Kingdom)
Freeing SuSE Pro as per Fedora is something Novell could certainly consider as long as quality is NOT affected (I've always found Fedora a bit ...errr [thinks of polite word]... flakey). Otherwise I'd lower the boxset RRP since 2 releases per year @ £60 is a bit steep. There's definitely an identity/pricing/placement muddle for Pro presently, which is a shame as it's a great product and a joy to use as a desktop. I think Novell know this so I expect some changes.
For the person asking re: Linux streaming video, have you tried the mplayer_plugin for Mozilla/Firefox (I assume you'd previously used MPlayer standalone)? If not, try it - it's great! ;-)
56 • Synaptic in Fedora (by Ariszló on 2005-08-02 20:22:25 GMT from Hungary)
Kondor Vlastos wrote: And, the Synaptic package manager has anything offered by RH/Fedora beaten by miles.
Synaptic is available for Fedora, too:
57 • SUSE (by Madluv on 2005-08-02 21:43:46 GMT from United States)
I have used SUSE and like it but chose not to run it as my desktop because of the closed nature of it's development. Just my preference but that also means that by word of mouth I (and I assume others with the same perspective) are not promoting it's use to others. Closed development doesn't make for an attractive distro in a community of potential users that support the opposite.
58 • The Red Scare..... (by Scott Wilson on 2005-08-03 03:22:06 GMT from United States)
Seems like some of the Linux users are stuck in the 1950 America. Instead of the Commies, hiding behind every tree and bush, its the Red Hat Fedories hidding behind every piece of code.
Doesn't it seem that the war with in Linux and against Linux is starting to get intense. Make you wonder what is up, something big is on the horzion.
By the way, I like Fedora core 4, but something about out I didn't like.
Suse 9.3 liked it, felt some what sleepy and comfortable. didnt like that. , wiped the drive and install Debian, I really feel like I am home.
59 • Suse-and-torrents (by NobodyXXX on 2005-08-03 04:32:10 GMT from El Salvador)
Im know this is out of topic... but... can somebody help me? How the hell is the package to dowload torrents with Suse. There is not one in suse 9.3, no azureus, not nothing. Please. Thanks in advance.
60 • SuSE is opening up, as it seems... (by Sven Zallmann on 2005-08-03 08:14:48 GMT from Germany)
Switching on DistroWatch this morning I couldn't help stumbling over the announcement that Novell will create an OpenSuSE project to bring development of its prime desktop OS out into the community. The eWeek article clearly is a fine read but...
What the fsck is this Micro$oft FUD ad doing in that article??? The sole fact that this ad is around might be reason enough for a lot of people not to read the article. Is this what we want? Having good Linux news picking up dust for the sake of God Money coming in the shape of software evilness itself? [...]
I wonder whether there is an effective way of protesting against M$ ads in Linux articles. If anyone knows one, feel free to share it :)
System Specs: AMD Athlon 900, 768MB SDRAM, 2 HDDs w/altogether 250GB storage capacity, old GF2 gfx card w/32MB, dual-booting Windows ME and SuSE 9.3 Pro.
61 • Ahead of the curve (by William Roddy on 2005-08-03 09:47:18 GMT from United States)
Hey, Ladislav. Looks like you're way ahead of the curve. Want to tell us about your crystal ball? Or will you reveal your journalistic secret about Suse's move?
Good call. As Usual.
62 • Really good foresight (by Anonymous on 2005-08-03 10:12:20 GMT from United States)
Ladislav has predicted that there will not be so many releases in the summer and hence he arranged a beach holiday for himself. By the time this issue of DWW was published, he had been enjoying himself on an island. Instead, he had somebody else to call "join the discussion on Fedora-izing SUSE Linux" and "stay tuned" for Slackware 10.2 beta...
63 • Vlos 1.2 released too soon? (by Mikkh on 2005-08-03 10:47:48 GMT from United Kingdom)
I was looking forward to this, but I'm not impressed by several bugs.
The anaconda installer places Grub on the MBR, even though I picked the advanced options and told it not to. I even reinstalled to check I hadn't made a mistake. It looks very rushed in general, which is a shame because 1.1 showed a lot of promise
64 • Can Novell contibute its real expertise in networking to linux (by Trev on 2005-08-03 11:20:39 GMT from Australia)
When I first heard Novell was buying Suse I thought this is the best news for Linux. Linux networking in the corporate environemt just sucks. Windows (for all its problems) makes this easy. At the moment Samba is the only good way for linux desktops and servers to simply share files and authenticate users. NFS is just broken and has no concept of domain wide user authenication and authorisation. This is where Novell started and this is what it should be able to give back to the linus=x community. That is:
* Good domain wide authentication and
* Good simple and secure file sharing integrated with Gnome, KDE or whatever.
65 • Why support Winmodems? [clue]REAL WORLD[/clue] (by torque2k on 2005-08-03 11:25:30 GMT from United States)
"Every time you support a distribution that encourages hardware manufacturers to keep specifications on their products (at the very least) closed source, you might as well shoot yourself in the foot.
You might as well not use Linux. You encourage counter-productive and ultimately destructive behaviour by patting them on the back."
This fight is long past. Are you telling me that, in a corporation with hundreds or thousands of three year old notebooks, you're going to go through and RIP OUT the "softmodems" installed and replace them with a controller-based modem on a PC Card (most likely with a wimpy dongle that the user will snap off in days) which costs $70, if you can find them? Just so you can satisfy your urge to give hardware manufacturers the "up yours"? Please.
The fact that companies are recovering these older notebooks and replacing Windows with Linux should have you jumping for joy, not demoaning the lack of "Linux compatible", proprietary hardware and drivers. The open-source community does a heck of a great job working to get drivers working with a lack of information (look at the MadWiFI project, or CUPS). We should be thankful for them.
Yes, in a perfect world it would be great to stay away from closed-source projects, but that's easy to say now. When the next big thing comes out (MIMO wireless), and a corporate IT group needs to satisfy the CEO, and still wants to push a Linux solution on its users, will they have to wait until someone releases hardware fully compatible with Linux? That won't happen. They'll just wait for the community to rally together and make it work. Hopefully they'll even help!
Sorry, but this rant comes from experience with these support issues. I'm all for looking for hardware which just "works" in Linux, but the softmodem issue will not go away any time soon.
66 • RE: Suse-and-torrents (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-08-03 12:50:41 GMT from Italy)
You can just download Azureus from its website and install it. It is very easy.
67 • RE: Vlos 1.2 released too soon? (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-08-03 12:56:01 GMT from Italy)
Same feelings here.
Besides people have been complaining that an emerge world breaks the system, and do you know their reply: RTFM!!!
68 • Fedora-izing, debianazing, yastizing... (by Alberto on 2005-08-03 16:51:31 GMT from Spain)
As long as they leave Slackware alone, they can fedorize, yastize or debianize whatever they want.
Slackware is the oldest and most respected distro out there. Great to see Patrick in such a good shape releasing soon Slackware 10.2. Great to see SW's sons (Vector, MiniSlack, etc..) growing up strong and healthy.
Slackware is fast, simple, stable, free... So my vote for a donation goes to it (although I wouldn't mind if it goes to Vector or MiniSlack either).
Happy holidays, Ladislav. Thanks for the great work.
69 • Great to see SW's sons (Vector, MiniSlack, etc..) growing up strong and healthy. (by Anonymous on 2005-08-03 18:33:05 GMT from United States)
You forgot SLAX. SLAX is also in the footsteps of Slackware. And also Mutagenix and GoblinX. They are also derived from Slackware. Great!!!
Why support Winmodems?
They are a caring group of people that go out of their way to help users which have a winmodem, connect to the internet using a Linux Machine. Some LiveCD distros are now including drivers for LTModems and Slmodem. They are working fine. Among them Pupply Linux, and Kanotix that I know. Add more if you know of any.
I know that folks at linmodems.org use different distros. Debian, Fedora, Suse, Mandriva, Knoppix and others are usually the distros of choice. They are volunteers that are very helpful in determining which drivers are needed to make your distro work. The decision is up to you kind folks that use and love linux.
Fedorising Suse? Suse is already a great distro. and know that it will follow Red Hat/Fedora Model, it will become even better. More and more testers, better and higher quality and more updated software. What more could you ask for?
70 • slackneighborlee on 2005-08-03 21:51:42 GMT from United States)
i've found the slackware IRC commuitty to be very much a RTFM commmunity which is HIGHLY offense to me and most people. When you linux people realize that ?
..now take ubuntu for example..you hardly EVER see RTFM in irc OR the forums..its just NOT acceptable..BESIDES apt-get is the easily clear victor in package management and slackware ( last I knew ) doesn't even COME with package management does it ???
no comparison so lets not FUD each other into think its somehow superior..heck there is not even a GUI installer nor does supermount work out of the box...no..lets not compare..
71 • RE: slackneighborlee (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-08-03 22:47:11 GMT from Italy)
A bit of humor: maybe you are new to linux and you don't quite know the linux etiquette: indeed, Slackware might be old and even old-fashioned, but it is like the late Queen Mother: you never say anything bad about it :)
72 • Re: • Really good foresight - by Anonymous (by William Roddy on 2005-08-04 05:11:16 GMT from United States)
Re: • Really good foresight - by Anonymous
Is there a chance we might know who made the call, and how? Just curious.
73 • DesktopBSD (by tdjokic on 2005-08-04 11:01:02 GMT from Yugoslavia)
What about this distribution
http://desktopbsd.sourceforge.net/ ? I didn't see it on DW.
74 • Famelix (by mixmatch on 2005-08-04 11:10:53 GMT from United States)
Its pretty foolish and unoriginal to steal the graphics from a commercial project (MS Windows) for an open source one that is much better. Reguardless of who actually made that XP KDE theme, I am disappointed to see a linux distro acknowledging it.
75 • Re: Famelix (by flimflamman on 2005-08-04 12:17:14 GMT from United States)
I agree with mixmatch. Sculpting desktops to resemble XP is an irresponsible marketing ploy. Sure, it might soothe a few new users, but it also attracts the attention of MS and provides some basis for lookalike lawsuits. Even worse, it doesn't promote the strengths of Linux. It's like a little kid standing on one leg, saying, "Look what I can do!!!" All it takes is one little push...
76 • DesktopBSD (by William Roddy on 2005-08-04 14:59:12 GMT from United States)
DesktopBSD looks interesting. I'd like to know more about it, too. Anyone tried it yet. How does it compare with PC-BSD?
77 • donations (by Psionides on 2005-08-04 17:27:50 GMT from Poland)
my propositions for new donations: Beep Media Player, Kaffeine or Krusader file manager.
78 • OpenSUSE (by kondor vlastos on 2005-08-04 20:06:27 GMT from United States)
The lizard was moribund when Novell coughed up the cash. Now, the lizard dies, "end-user" PR aside.
Just shows-to-go-ya that one shouldn't protrude one's tongue toooo far.
Novell's idea of a desktop is NLD. That is, a thin-client desktop that generates revenue.
Makes one appreciate Debian. And, to a lesser extent, its spins.
Cheer up lizard lovers - Vista is coming!
Slackware lovers - "We started in germany by sending 40-floppy-sets with Slackware on
it to people who wanted to have Linux.
We translated all the slackware scripts to german and made
a german slackware out of ot. This was all done in close cooperation
with Patrik Volkerding. Then the floppies switched to CDs..."
"At one time we decided that it will better to have our own distribution
than always fixing the same slackware bugs. Also we thought, that we
need a better installation and configuration tool besides with many
other things. We took the jurix distribution by Florian LaRoche as
base for S.u.S.E. Linux and started to develop YaST."
System Specs: HP Pentium II 400 384mbRAM 8mb HD running SuSE 8.
79 • Suse Splits For $$$ (by michael on 2005-08-04 22:54:02 GMT from United States)
Suse's splitting their product into a "free" product that basically allows them to
-get R&D and new features for free.
-It's release quality will be substantially lower than the commercial version.
-Take all the stuff that costs them money (like java) out and put it in the commercial distro.
-Break compatibility between the free and not-free product.
What Novell's got working for them is the killer back-end management stuff. I just hope they don't screw up getting it to market. (9.3 is very good too)
I'm glad I still have my debian partition. That too though, will end up doing the same thing. See http://www.ianmurdock.com for details.
80 • Vida Linux 1.2 & ADSL problem (by Fotograf on 2005-08-05 05:04:28 GMT from Canada)
downloaded and installed that VLOS and have NO idea how to ajust my ADSL
and go to Internet. External modem connected to a Network card works perfectly under Debian Mandriva and Wind-XP......Who knows how to do it ???
Dynamoc IP and need to find the Concentrator and put my User/Password....
81 • Microsoft Linux ??? whe are the ISO's (by Anonymous on 2005-08-05 05:30:43 GMT from United States)
82 • Indiana kicking out Microsoft out of its schools (by Anonymous on 2005-08-05 05:33:26 GMT from United States)
83 • US Federal Government to require MSIE for copyright preregistration (by Anonymous on 2005-08-05 05:36:40 GMT from United States)
84 • Which version of Windows is that? (by Anonymous on 2005-08-05 05:44:43 GMT from United States)
With new distros coming out and making users feel right at home with Windows Look alikes like Famelix, and others which use XPde desktop and now the XP-KDE theme, many more people will ask which windows is that?
At school I ran several live cd's like SLAX, Kanotix, Knoppix and FreeSBIE and students ask which windows is that? I can sure fool my students into thinking that it is windows!!! Some of my more clever students will go and check Microsoft webpage to validate/check that the windows is genuine.
Microsoft Genuine Advantage will probably put up a major lawsuit on some of these distros. With KDE-XP theme, only time will tell what will happen.
85 • RE: Vida Linux 1.2 & ADSL problem (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-08-06 06:01:06 GMT from Italy)
I had the same problem.
What to do:
DELETE the eth0 DHCP connection.
Get hold of rp-pppoe-3.5.tar.gz from here:
You can copy it from you Windows partition, use a floppy, a USB pen drive to carry it to your VL partition.
And then use it as usual.
If you have more doubts please ask.
Number of Comments: 85
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
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