| DistroWatch Weekly
1 • Links to Linux websites (by Anonymous on 2005-03-21 10:22:51 GMT from United Kingdom) |
It has been over a week since the links to other Linux websites has appeared. A feature surely missed.
2 • Kubuntu/Linspire (by Honaby on 2005-03-21 10:24:19 GMT from Philippines)
This might sound stupid to some but here goes... is Linspire Debian based?
Anyway, great work on Kubuntu... I tried installing it at home, it worked like Magic! Just Like my Ubuntu Install... except that both have problems with my Modem... although my modem was working, and I was able to dial-up successfully to my ISP, surfing seems to be slower on both Ubuntu and Kubuntu compared to when im logged in to my Suse 9.2 install... using Firefox as browser... although im sure it has nothing to do with firefox since everything internet related is slow. eg. downloading updates from Ubuntu Archives etc... (synaptic/kynaptic)
Anyway, I hope the Canonical guys can fix it, or it may just be a very rare case of stupidity in my part. :D
Mepis beware of Kubuntu! hehehe...
3 • Kewl (by mazinga on 2005-03-21 11:30:34 GMT from Greece)
This is just a stupid sidenote but I just noticed we are getting close to 400 distros! Kewl.
As always, great work Ladi.
4 • Thanks Too Excellent Developers! (by Ajax Munroe on 2005-03-21 11:34:44 GMT from United States)
I would like to thank the hard working developers who were responsible for releasing the KDE 3.4 ports for all older Redhat versions. You people deserve credit for A-1 excellent work. My Redhat 9 box has never looked or performed better. The detail is flawless, and the eyecandy is breathtaking!
Also thanks goes out to the KDE team for developing another excellent release of their number one desktop. THANK YOU!
5 • RE: Kubuntu/Linspire (by Tux5 on 2005-03-21 11:38:37 GMT from United States)
"Mepis beware of Kubuntu! hehehe..."
This should be very interesting, the biggest reason to choose between MEPIS and Ubuntu used to be whether you wanted Gnome or KDE, now two of the very best single CD distributions can have KDE by default. I will definitely be checking out Kubuntu!
6 • Linspire (by Derion on 2005-03-21 11:40:48 GMT from Denmark)
Yes, Linspire is based on DEBIAN.
7 • Admelix is Featherweight Linux? ;) (by Christophe on 2005-03-21 12:16:10 GMT from Netherlands)
I just noticed a small mistake: in the "New on the waiting list", the first item "Admelix" has the comment of Featherweight Linux of last week. Or at least I think it's a mistake :) .
Otherwise, DistroWatch Weekly is just as informative and interesting as usual :) . Keep up the good job!
8 • Unannounced? (by wordchecker on 2005-03-21 12:49:40 GMT from United States)
Here's something I just noticed. This week's DW lists 15 "Development and unannounced releases," but 10 of them are followed by the words "release announcement." What's next, unreleased releases?
Other than that, a perfect website!
9 • Effective?/Debian & Gentoo have useful releases./Distros need wiki-like info. (by Anonymous on 2005-03-21 12:50:11 GMT from Canada)
I'm still looking at distributions and even thinking about just getting a Mac or compromising with proprietary software use. By distributions I'm saying I'm including BSD, Darwin, and other open source software with sensible licenses. As a result I've tried plenty of them out, but have only been able to give them so much time. In the end I'm bored of fiddling to get everything all working especially wireless, power management and 3d acceleration. This did make me notice some things in the end.
Despite all the effort to setup some systems, effectiveness is most important for me. Strangely the only thing that I can think of off hand to deseat it would be freedom from time to time. Effectiveness in software is does it do what I am attempting to communicate with it, to do. (Sorry for that wordy last sentence.) Please don't mistake what I'm talking about with just speed, I'm talking about being able to proceed in the correct direction too. Here is an example. Open source works for me because I can pay people to customize code. My personal organizer has to be the way function for the way I think and plan my life. My life works around what is important to me while most personal organizers work around time. I don't need to pay to rewrite the entire program necessarily because the programmer simply found something they could customize.
Debian is really one of the oldest but the new Distro come and go while it perserveres. Even now despite a slow release cycle it is still relevant. With stable, testing, and unstable having much better quality control then many most other software I have seen. Even one program for Windows that was bundled with my hardware has the mouse cursor disappear in it rendering the TV guide useless for ATI AIW functionality. I haven't yet seen anything in Debian where I could not use the program. Even the worse when a program was crashing a bit when in unstable had a new package in the repo a few days later.
Gentoo is one of the few newbies that really stands out despite being source based. Gentoo really even makes it simpler then binaries except for the fact that programs take long to compile. This can be worked around even a bit, but the important thing is it actually works if you follow all the directions. Well I'm pretty sure it fails for some but even then it tells you how to report bugs and get help. It really is powerful and truly is a meta-distribution with the way that it's packages are really just directions for how to install and setup the software. Again if you do what you are suppose to it works.
Debian and Gentoo have been solid for me and are true communities themselves. I could almost say the same for RedHat/Fedora but it isn't a community even if the stability and quality is very nice. (I recall having only trouble with disk druid partitioner or whatever it is called) All distributions use other peoples work in some way, but these add real value. Understand that these are very different distros but they have one thing in common all there releases have been useful upgradable products for years.
To change the subject I have noticed something with some distributions and really think all distributions would benefit from the idea. A few distributions have removed almost all the beauracratic nonscence and made it easy to add to, correct AND update their information about there distribution. This is really a treat. While some may have implementation that is not a real wiki they are still quick.I prefer a real wiki though because a how to quickly becomes dated and too often I find one that I could help with a bit but the page is static. Once you discover the power of wiki documents you may just relize how boring and stale static pages are and how much more powerful they can be with interactive readers.
If every distribution had a good wiki like Media Wiki the world could be a better place. You would no longer have to wait for someone to update the howto or waste someone elses time just to fix a small mistake. People will be able and more willing to help more if it takes less time. Time is not just money it has so much more value then that. Time to spend share with people like friends and family or on you mission in life.
10 • Effective Post was mine (by My Name on 2005-03-21 12:55:56 GMT from Canada)
Effective?/...... titled post was mine. Please excuse the length; I did't mean to submit it yet, but it looks like it is too late to change. People will probably read it before they glance down and notice this.
11 • Ark Linux won't install (by CJ on 2005-03-21 13:03:22 GMT from United States)
I downloaded it via bittorrent, burn the disc and verified the data. Got to the install stagem, and all that would install was GRUB. When going to install I got something to the effect of:
installer failed (??????? = 0)
Then it ejects the cd and reboots.
I've tried posting the problem on thier forum, but it keeps giving me an error saying not all fields are completed or long enough (or something like that), even though I've tried putting something in every field...
Hopefully Bero or somebody over there can fix this.
12 • RE: Unannounced? (by ladislav on 2005-03-21 13:33:23 GMT from Taiwan)
This week's DW lists 15 "Development and unannounced releases," but 10 of them are followed by the words "release announcement."
The "and" is a logical "OR" here. The list contains all development released (irrespective of whether they've been announced or not), as well as all unannounced released (irrespective of whether they are development releases or not). But maybe I should call it something else. Any suggestions?
13 • Nomination for DistroWatch's March 2005 donation (by Sven on 2005-03-21 13:37:21 GMT from Sweden)
I would like to nominate BitTorrent and its father Bram Cohen for this months DistroWatch donation.
With version 4.0.0 released just two weeks ago, the official BitTorrent client is hotter than ever. It comes with a brand new GTK-based user interface supporting multiple downloads. Single file transfers can be paused and resumed individually, and a "Peer list" shows a variety of statistics about the seeders and leechers one is connected to. Last but not least there is a slider to quickly adjust the maximum total upload rate.
Apart from programming the client, Bram also deserves some fame for implementing the BitTorrent file distribution "protocol" as such. Numerous software projects and Linux distributions today rely on BitTorrent to distribute their files and ISO-images to their users and distro junkies like me, Ladislav and all you others out there :-)
14 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2005-03-21 13:48:45 GMT from United States)
I agree with the Bittorent nomination. I use the software a lot (especially when Mandrake is releasing :-) and it has helped so many distributions get their hard work out to people.
15 • RE: Unannounced? (by wordchecker on 2005-03-21 14:03:10 GMT from United States)
[i]The "and" is a logical "OR" here. The list contains all development released (irrespective of whether they've been announced or not), as well as all unannounced released (irrespective of whether they are development releases or not). But maybe I should call it something else. Any suggestions?[/i]
No need to call it anything else -- I think it's just fine the way it is. Just struck me as a little funny at first.
16 • RE: Unannounced? (by Anonymous on 2005-03-21 15:09:47 GMT from United States)
No need to change it ladislav (IMHO).
17 • Effective? (by Anonymous on 2005-03-21 15:35:08 GMT from United States)
Not really sure if this is where your coming from?
But if your looking for a solid stable release with long support
try centos4. Its been almost everything I want. Where it does
come up short is the community. IMHO everybody seems to
be yesterdays rhel sys admins. And heres the rub: they know
it all. Now it would seem that would be good but. There are no
forums for newbies and the wiki is limp. Seems to me like all
the users lurk in rhel waters. But except for that its great.
Anyone ever try etherape its a great network monitor for newbies
graphic display of bandwidth use. And firestarter is also great
for newbies. Just my 2 cents
18 • Mandrake new release convention (by leo on 2005-03-21 15:40:06 GMT from United States)
how about this ?
19 • kubuntu (by ray carter at 2005-03-21 15:50:44 GMT from United States)
I do take issue with your statement about kubuntu being the same thing you'd get with an ubuntu install followed by adding the kde packages. I've tried without success to install ubuntu - both from a download/burn iso image and from the CDs they send out - my old Compaq hung about half way through looking for a nic module. Kubuntu installed cleanly.
Two things I noticed about the kubuntu install: it found all installed os's - the win98 install and the three previous Linux installs and promised to set up the multi-boot automatically (I was in a hurry and not brave enough to try it). And it misconfigured the video slightly - I have built in video and a PCI video card installed - and I'm using the built in right now - it set up for the PCI card, although it did find the correct monitor attached to the build in video - figure that!
20 • Re: kubuntu (by Anonymous on 2005-03-21 15:58:18 GMT from Germany)
Kubuntu Preview is based on Ubuntu Preview, the next Ubuntu version - not the last stable shipped Ubuntu release.
21 • BitTorrent nomination (by Josh on 2005-03-21 16:11:41 GMT from United States)
I would also like to give a "thumbs up" to nominating Bram Cohen as the recipient of the March 2005 Distrowatch donation.
22 • Kubuntu, Ark Linux , and Debian. (by Robzilla on 2005-03-21 16:36:03 GMT from United States)
O.K. I tried installing the new Kubuntu and was very impressed. I always hated the look and name of Ubuntu but had to try it because of the popularity. I was dissapointed with the Ubuntu desktop because I use KDE. Now I am sure as said you can get KDE through the repository but it is nice to have a distro set up with KDE by default. It worked very nice, the install was easy and quick. My only problem was trying to get the cd and dvd player to work. I tried to apt-get the codecs and couldn't. I tried to alter the source adresses for apt-get but could'nt. Could someone offer a clue? All in all I think I might give this distro a serious look when the release is out.
Tryed to download Ark Linux. Burned an ISO to disk and tryed to install. What a pain. I am sure if you can install it it would be nice but with this suppossed to be easy, it wasn't. It I repartitioned the drive and wiped it clean for it to install. It would get to a certain point and abort. Not impressed at all. They have some work to do for a "stable" newbie friendly release.
Now to Debian, Father of many current distors. Apt-get King. The distro I wanted most to install and customize. Now I am no Linux pro but I have installed many distro's before and have some idea of what to do at the command line. That being said I am still new to Linux in terms of time. So I tried a net install of Debian with the default desktop they reccomend. Spent an hour and a half downloading the additional programs set everything up and then when I re-booted I got the login screen, I logged in and nothing?? No desktop, no nothing but black screen with the root prompt. ??? I tried some commands and still nothing. I tried downloading another ISO and re-installed and still the same thing happened again?? I would really like to try Debian and for all the distro's I have used that are Debian based I would have thought this would have worked better. Someone got a suggestion?? Why is Debian so hard to get running?
Finally, just want to say that I am enjoying the overall Linux experience and community. What a great alternative to The Monopolistic choice! Distrowatch is the best resource I have ever come across!! So much info of Linux in one spot and so current!! Keep up the great work I am a Distro-watch junkie!!
23 • Mepis used to have both KDE and GNOME in test versions (by mrbass on 2005-03-21 16:46:34 GMT from United States)
• RE: Kubuntu/Linspire (by Tux5 on 2005-03-21 11:38:37 GMT from United States)
"Mepis beware of Kubuntu! hehehe..."
This should be very interesting, the biggest reason to choose between MEPIS and Ubuntu used to be whether you wanted Gnome or KDE, now two of the very best single CD distributions can have KDE by default. I will definitely be checking out Kubuntu!
Actually Warren pulled GNOME from Mepis...you could login with either KDE or GNOME but no one seemed to care so it was yanked.
If you wish to listen to this go here
download llts_75-03-16-05.mp3 about 14MB and listen from. Entire interview is from 21mins on to the end 84mins.
Warren quoted from 63:40 to 66:35 of above mp3:
"We did a version where both GNOME and KDE were both present. People in the GNOME community ignored it, didn't hear a thing about it, it's as if they didn't care. So I said ok, so... well that's a lot of space and I could really use that space and it's more complicated to maintain all that. So we're gonna have, gonna back to the way it used to be.
SimplyMepis is going to be KDE based. You can install GNOME very easily and there's a little bit of pre-configuration so that it has, so it's Mepis-themed a little bit if you install GNOME but that's up to you. You want GNOME you install it. The minimal cd comes with KDE only. Since we're doing that and every time there's a release of KDE, people say 'oh gotta have that new KDE in Mepis' we may as well synchronize the release of Mepis with the releases of KDE. So SimplyMepis 3.3 was late getting out because this decision was made a lot latter than it should have been and it's based on KDE 3.3... or uses KDE 3.3. So, obviously, now the KDE 3.4 is becoming available, there will be a SimplyMepis 3.4 and I'm guessing that'll coming out around the first of May.
From there on out, SimplyMepis will be synchronized with KDE for release cycle. So when a new KDE comes out, maybe a month later a new Mepis will come out. Certainly not going to come out immediately because I've used KDE long enough to know when a new KDE comes out, there's a better version a month later. So certainly wouldn't want to come out with a KDE 3.4 based version this week. But anyway around the first of May I expect version 3.4 to become available. We have 2 extra cds right now that we're ready to put out for testing to go with the 3.3 version. When 3.4 comes out will have a 3.4 version of those extra cds. We also anticipate that we'll have a users printed guide for 3.4, which up until now we haven't had."
24 • Language barrier (by William Roddy on 2005-03-21 17:28:41 GMT from United States)
"My son is such a geek," said a beaming mother. "He came over and set up an e-mail account on my new computer."
Does that sound at all familiar?
Most people use Windows. Very few people install windows. In reality, in the world of Window users, you are a geek if you are the guy in the family who can set up an e-mail and Web browser and a super-geek if you can do that and install Windows.
Only a small number of people can install Windows, or even set up an e-mail account.
I wonder if the question is not "How do we make Linux easier to install?" but "Is there another way to get Linux on more people's computers?"
We can give them the simplest, easiest-to-install Linux possible, but if they can't even install Windows -- and I stress, numbers who most people can't -- what is the point?
How do we get out of this cul de sac? How do we extend our voice beyond the listening range of the choir? How many people do you know who use Windows at home and at work, but wouldn't dream of trying to install it
Linux is superb and, in so many ways, superior to Windows. In most cases, it is far easier to install than Windows. But there's the rub. If the vast majority can't even set up an e-mail account, how can we convince them to download an ISO, burn it, and install it on their machine?
The ratio of distributions on machines is not a function of who put them there, it's directly proportional to the number of machines upon which the distribution is installed. Even with that, other competitive advantages/disadvantages become factors. Mac in wonderful and comes installed, but still has a smaller number of users (although this may be the result of cost). Linux is at a real competitive disadvantage, even though it's free.
We cannot assume that because we know what we're talking about, everyone will know what we're talking about, when the broader public's definition of a geek is someone who can set up an e-mail account.
We, the lucky few who use Linux, are accidents of human nature and are very fortunate. I know we want to share our good fortune.
So the real question is, "How do we get Linux on more machines, without having to ask people to install it?"
I know the question's been asked before, but shouldn't we keep asking it, until someone comes up with a solution that is more than wistful thinking?
25 • BitTorrent (by relativ on 2005-03-21 17:58:56 GMT from United States)
I also agree on giving BitTorrent the next contribution. That little program is ALWAYS running on my system, grabbing something from the net. It's so quiet and it works so well, I think you just forget it's there.
On another note, I downloaded the Knoppix 3.8 CeBit iso (via BitTorrent) and then hex-edited it to default to English. Works perfectly. One strange thing I noticed - there is no "install software while CD is running" live installer utility. There used to be a tool to download the Flash Plugin and a few other items but now it's gone. Has anyone heard that this feature is being pulled?? Is it a license issue?
Anyway, thanks Ladislav! I know right where to go on Monday mornings.
26 • Re: Language barrier (by butters on 2005-03-21 18:57:06 GMT from United States)
Very good comment. Here's my best response:
The Free Software movement is very old and slow moving. Relics of such ideas stem from mainframe programming in the 1970's, and perhaps the body of Free Software (or Open Source Software) philosophy can be traced back to the development of C as a cross-platform development language.
We all remember when 2000, 2001. . . were supposed to be "the year of Linux." Although it can be argued that the movement is picking up speed as of late, growth will continue to be a gradual phenomenon--a smooth curve. As much as zealots (who increasingly sound like pundits) care to argue that MS will ultimately fail in getting people to switch to Longhorn, leaving a critical opportunity for the rapidly developing Desktop Linux panacea to gain massive install-base, this is a pipe dream. By 2008, there will be more internet-connected client computers still running Windows 2000 than all flavors of Linux combined. But there will also be more computers running Windows XP than Longhorn.
What I am saying is, the Free Software community has the same problem that MS does: no one ever wants to upgrade unless they have to. This stems back to the original poster's revelation that most people don't know how to install Windows or set up an email account. No matter how easy we make the upgrade/install, it still presents a barrier to the masses.
Everyone knows some relative or friend that still runs Windows 98 or something similar. You can spout at them all you like about why it's not safe/productive/entertaining to run Windows 98 compared to modern alternatives, but unless you do the upgrade yourself, they won't switch operating systems until they replace their entire computer.
Distrowatch readers install operating systems. To everyone else, they come installed on your computer. This is why the community distributions will continue to serve their "loyal" Distrowatch-type fanbase ("I used to run Mandrake, but then I tried Gentoo, switched to Debian for a while, but now Ubuntu rocks and everything else sucks!!"), while the commercial OSS vendors aggressively court the OEMs.
There used to be two or three niche system integrators that preinstalled certain flavors of Linux. Now the big boys are starting to dip their toes in the water. These guys don't like to get wet, however, if they don't know how deep the pool is. Imagine if every major OEM hired a typical Informations Systems major to read Distrowatch/OSNews/Slashdot/etc. everyday and keep them informed on the growth of all that Linux stuff. Today I read a proud proclamation that, while 2004 was clearly the year for Ubuntu Linux, 2005 will be the year of Arch Linux. Yeah, I wonder what Red Hat and Novell have to say about that... let alone Microsoft!
Imagine this: Dell spends some amount of money on an experiment to gauge the level of interest in Linux technologies. They burn thousands of Knoppix/Ubuntu/Novell LiveCD's and send one to every Dell Home computer owner. Whenever someone boots the LiveCD, it sends a tally count over the network to Dell's server. The LiveCD contains some information about the advantages of Linux, and how the customer can provide feedback on the technology. It explains that in the future, they might be able to send their computer in for a complete "upgrade" to Linux, or a side-by-side install with Windows. No question about it, the LiveCD will be a very important tool for OEMs to educate home users and IT managers about the capabilities of Linux.
In conclusion, the idea of a large corporation upgrading half their computers to Longhorn by 2008 is highly unlikely, and the idea of them switching half of their computers to a form of Linux by 2008 is even less likely. Large corporations don't switch at the drop of a hat, and they don't ever change over everything at once (or even half of everything at once). Therefore, there will never be a singular year of Linux, or year of Foobar Linux. And there will never be an installer or upgrade tool seamless enough--and there will never be an operating system superior enough--for anyone to upgrade unless they really need to. There will either be a slow and gradual transition (group by group, department by department) toward Linux or a slow and gradual replacement by Longhorn.
And your mother will never learn how to setup an email account either.
27 • Re: Language barrier (by mdl on 2005-03-21 20:04:51 GMT from United States)
The simple fact is that the masses do not buy operating systems, they buy computers and use whatever operating system comes on them. If Linux is to become mainstream, it must be available installed on new computers. But Dell has enough trouble supporting Windows, let alone trying to support Linux. So don't expect to see any major PC vendors jump off the MS boat anytime soon.
There is the problem. I have no solution. It is tough to fight a monopoly, especially when most of the victims don't care. Sad.
28 • Linspire 5.0 (by Al on 2005-03-21 20:17:30 GMT from United States)
Linspire really struck a good chord with this release, and after almost a year and a half in development, I would expect nothing less.
However, before I recommend it to my friends, I will wait until their fist update to the 5.0.59 iso to make sure they have resolved any important post relrease bugs.
Linspire has always been great abou supporting their relreases and pumring out updates long after release, so I expect them to have a new 5.0 iso/CNR upgrade early in April.
29 • LiveCDs, etc. (by William Roddy on 2005-03-21 20:19:50 GMT from United States)
Thank you for your thoughtful and well-written reply. I hope dialogs continue about this in as many forums as possible.
What prompted me to write the previous post was the article about Xandros on a computer site in India (that seems obscure, but it was a DistroWatch announcement about a review, and I read it). It was a review about Xandros, but the reviewer said it was not only Xandros, but Linux, as a whole, that was not ready.
I would doubt that there are many other countries that need Linux more than India. And it felt that some vested interest may have been being protected. I'll say that, rather than that the reviewer was stupid. But such articles help promulgate a myth that is, by in large, what stands in the way of people even putting a live Linux CD in their machine.
I understand what you are saying and I agree that LiveCD's will play an important role in introducing people to Linux. My impatiences is with the fact that Microsoft, for all its positive contributions to computing, is a proven monopoly and, in areas where it cannot be adjudicated as a monopoly, it wins the day only by a gnat's eyelash that in passes the test.
I'm certain there must be, but I have trouble bringing to mind another example where one manufacturer of anything holds such sway on the way people's lives will be arranged and managed and entertained than Microsoft.
I know you used an impersonal "your" when you referred to my mother, but I must say I do understand there are people who will never be able to tackle technical chores. In my mother's case, she is blind and has dementia, but she still looks forward to my sister's reading of her children's e-mails, on an account I set up for her.
I also know that her receipt of e-mails, which quickly became the high points of her days, was abruptly curtailed when her machine contracted a virus that shut it down. Finances, distance, and other factors caused my mother to feel cheated out of contact with her children because of that virus. It was the same distance that disallowed me from having installed Linux on her machine.
I'm 63 and disabled. The computer is my primary contact with any world, other than hospitals. I don't know if I'll live to see Longhorn, and I don't care. As long as I'm able to e-mail my mom, who's near 90, and have my five children and 15 grandchildren, brother and sisters, e-mail me and send me pictures, the best purpose of my computer will be served.
By chance, I, like so many of you, am one of the fortunate who became involved in Linux. I don't even remember exactly how or why. I've reconnected with a lot of friends and relatives with my computer, and I've expanded my uses of it to include other things. But when friends and relatives are not heard from, at my age and older, one worries, and when it turns out that they have been down for a month or two with a computer virus or worm, one gets pissed.
I suppose at my age, one gets a little impatient for good things to take hold. But it is my belief that, right now, the world needs Linux much more than Linux needs the world. That's worthy of a little urgency.
30 • Bittorent (by Al on 2005-03-21 20:19:54 GMT from United States)
"I would like to nominate BitTorrent and its father Bram Cohen for this months DistroWatch donation."
I second that! Bittorent is a key OSS programe
31 • Linspire 5.0 Sluggish (by Thou on 2005-03-21 22:09:58 GMT from New Zealand)
My experience with Linspire 5.0 has not been that positive. On my system (Celeron 2400/500) it runs uncomfortably slow. Distros on other partitions are very responsive. I am here concerned with startup times - it feels like a step backwards in usability for me.
32 • Debian Sarge installation - the easy way (by Captain Carrot on 2005-03-21 22:10:40 GMT from Germany)
How to install Debian?
1) Download the latest version of Debian Sarge net-installer.
2) Boot the installer with "linux26" and install the base system. When the installer gives you a chance to install additional packages via network, just update the package database and upgrade the already-installed base system.
3) After logging into your new Debian system, "apt-get install x-window-system kde-core synaptic".
4) Then "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86".
After the reboot, Debian should boot into KDE and you can use Synaptic to install all the other software you've ever wanted.
33 • bittorrent (by andrew on 2005-03-21 22:34:36 GMT from Australia)
Please add my vote for donation to bittorrent!
34 • Debian Sarge installation - the easy way -and easier (by Buster Ellis on 2005-03-22 00:14:11 GMT from Canada)
Instead of doing what Captain Carrot suggested to get Debian, install Mepis from the LiveCD and be done with it.
35 • Re:• Debian Sarge installation - the easy way -and easier (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-03-22 00:53:52 GMT from Italy)
The difference is like between cooking your own meal and eating at the restaurant.
If you know how to cook, you can prepare your meal exactly the way you like it.
What you get at the restaurant might be delicious, but it has been made according to the chef's own preferences.
36 • user love screenshot (by pingu on 2005-03-22 01:02:31 GMT from Malaysia)
Do you have a plan to have a screenshot section for every distro like http://shots.osdir.com/ did. People do like screenshots.
37 • Buster's advice (by Gnobian_Ken00bie on 2005-03-22 01:06:22 GMT from United States)
MEPIS not only doesn't permit the same level of customization from the start, but it also loads your system with non-free crap. And you don't learn much doing it. Some of us want to understand our systems and we want to know what all proprietary software, if any, is on our machines.
None of which is to detract from the great job MEPIS does at making a newbie-friendly distro. But as the earlier poster shows, even going with pure Debian is no longer such an impossible task.
In any case, if it weren't for those patient enough to use Debian, MEPIS would be nothing. Same with Ubuntu.
38 • RE: user love screenshot (by ladislav on 2005-03-22 01:26:44 GMT from Taiwan)
No. OSDir is doing a great job providing screenshots of many distributions (even some of the lesser-known ones), so I don't see why I should duplicate their efforts.
39 • To William Roddy (by CJ on 2005-03-22 02:33:08 GMT from United States)
"In my mother's case, she is blind and has dementia, but she still looks forward to my sister's reading of her children's e-mails, on an account I set up for her."
My father also has dementia. It is a hard thing to go through, especially when caused by long term alcoholism.
40 • Dementia (by Al on 2005-03-22 03:33:38 GMT from United States)
Q"In my mother's case, she is blind and has dementia, but she still looks forward to my sister's reading of her children's e-mails, on an account I set up for her."
My father also has dementia. It is a hard thing to go through, especially when caused by long term alcoholism.Q
He may want to try XTEND-LIFE's Neurological Formula. However, that is an excellent supplement all around, not just for dementia.
41 • To CJ (by William Roddy on 2005-03-22 03:57:34 GMT from United States)
I'm sorry about your father's illness. Mom never touched alcohol.
Yet comes the same end
Of long lifetimes.
Impatient Grim Reaper,
Too early for harvest,
Steals beauty from
Season's last hours;
As heroes struggle
Against his greed,
His uncivil war.
42 • Kool... eh (by Big Moron on 2005-03-22 13:28:37 GMT from Puerto Rico)
I wanted to try kubuntu... but the live cd boots me to the command line and I don't know how to start kdm... I feel it might be the cd... Mepis did this to me once with a copy of an already made iso... I am lost as to why that happens. Is there a way to start the window manager in such cases when you are thrown in to the cli...
About Linspire, I have not been able to test it... the new iso wont show in my account... it still shows 4.5... arg... wonder where should I complain... other than their forum... Am been lazzy...
Why hasn't my breakfeast not jumped to my mouth yet... :P
43 • Re: Debian network install (by Ed Borasky on 2005-03-22 14:07:05 GMT from United States)
• Kubuntu, Ark Linux , and Debian. (by Robzilla on 2005-03-21 16:36:03 GMT from United States)
"Now to Debian, Father of many current distors. Apt-get King. The distro I wanted most to install and customize. Now I am no Linux pro but I have installed many distro's before and have some idea of what to do at the command line. That being said I am still new to Linux in terms of time. So I tried a net install of Debian with the default desktop they reccomend. Spent an hour and a half downloading the additional programs set everything up and then when I re-booted I got the login screen, I logged in and nothing?? No desktop, no nothing but black screen with the root prompt. ??? I tried some commands and still nothing. I tried downloading another ISO and re-installed and still the same thing happened again?? I would really like to try Debian and for all the distro's I have used that are Debian based I would have thought this would have worked better. Someone got a suggestion?? Why is Debian so hard to get running?"
I had a much different (and better) experience installing Debian (sarge) directly over the Internet (no ISOs). Of course, I spent quite a bit of time last year using Debian; I'm not a newbie. All I had to do was boot the install floppies (downloaded from Debian) and follow the instructions. The only tricky part is getting kdm; if you prefer kdm, as I do, you need to specifically install it and configure it. The system came up perfectly, with kdm, DHCP, etc.
I did not have the same luck with woody, though -- the network/DHCP didn't come up after the install.
44 • RE: Kool... eh (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-03-22 14:34:22 GMT from Italy)
Which kind of Linspire membership do you have? Send a private message to Kendall.
45 • links (by ballhawk on 2005-03-22 14:41:55 GMT from United States)
Anonymous said: "It has been over a week since the links to other Linux websites has appeared. A feature surely missed."
As a newbie trying to learn all I can I agree. I followed some of the links last week but never bookmarked them. Now they are gone. Googling for linux brings up too many to sift through.
Maybe the old links could be based on the distrowatch links page as "Other Resources". Or perhaps others would suggest some of the best sites to visit.
46 • I loved that comment. (by Leonardo on 2005-03-22 19:05:09 GMT from Argentina)
I agree 100%, im always saying that!
If "normal" people is not able to install anything, how do we expect them to install a whole OS!
I mean, in windows if someone has to install something (including spyware and adware) they usually start clickin NEXT without even reading what they are doing! They use the webmail until some "geek" gets them Outlook working with their accounts!
I think the solution is quite simple, wait until Microsoft looses a bit (actually, lots) of power, so OEMs can start shipping Linux on their machines. Time will tell.
47 • Re: Language barrier (by im_ka on 2005-03-22 19:30:36 GMT from Hungary)
i absolutely agree, william. i hope you don't mind that i posted your comment on my blog
48 • im_ka (by William Roddy on 2005-03-22 20:10:26 GMT from United States)
Mr. im_ka: You are kind. Please regarded the post as "Copylefted."
Mr. Leonardo: You, too, are generous. I am humbled and flattered by the many nice thoughts.
In Linux, as in life, we all need each other.
49 • Ark Linux installer (by Ariszló on 2005-03-22 21:23:55 GMT from Hungary)
Ladislav: you still cannot install it on a pre-existing partition or specify which hard disk to take over
I don't like Ark's installer either but there is an easier way to install it next to other distributions. Just delete a spare partition and select "Express Install."
50 • linux adoption, search feature.. (by MarkV on 2005-03-22 22:15:05 GMT from United States)
Spent a long time with MS products starting with early dos.. moved to Linux now on OS X. People don't have the time, skill or patience to be there own sysadmin. Linux on the desktop needs to be easier than windows (doesn't have to be easy as a OS X), have true drop & drag ala OS X, and real notebook support. I've given up for this year in setting up small NGO's with Linux.. they seem to all need a sysadmin to keep them running. Check slashdot if the code gals/guys have the $ they get a powerbook -just works and you get UNIX.
Thanks thanks thanks for the great new search feature!!!!
51 • RE: Ark Linux installer (by ladislav on 2005-03-22 23:48:59 GMT from Taiwan)
Yes, I saw that option too. I used it before (with an earlier alpha release of Ark Linux) to delete a partition in the middle of the partition table. What a mess! The installer created a new swap partition (despite the fact that the drive already had one) and completely messed up the existing partition table. In the end, it seemed that I would waste less time if I simply disconnected the first hard disk than if I had to fix the partition table after the installation.
52 • RE: RE: Ark Linux installer (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-03-23 05:11:35 GMT from Italy)
Same experience here, Ladislav.
They aren't even humble enough to accept that their installer has created untold grief to a lot of people.
And in any case, if they hadn't been arrogant, they could have accepted the suggestion to port Anaconda. Do you remember J.A.M.D. ? I installed it again a few days ago. It wasn't a grandiose project, but it was useful to a lot of people.
53 • Libranet - Debian Free Easy (by Rodney on 2005-03-23 07:32:49 GMT from Australia)
54 • Bittorrent (by maple.nu on 2005-03-23 07:37:12 GMT from Finland)
Bittorrent also gets my vote for the next DW donation.
55 • Re: Ark Linux installer (by Ariszló on 2005-03-23 13:42:58 GMT from Hungary)
Ladislav: The installer created a new swap partition (despite the fact that the drive already had one) and completely messed up the existing partition table.
Yes, that's true. I was luckier because I deleted the last partition on the disk. That's the only way to keep the partition table intact.
Apart from the installer, Mission Control is quite cool.
56 • Bittorrent (by Ariszló on 2005-03-23 13:46:42 GMT from Hungary)
My vote, too.
57 • The name just BUGS me, man! (by just john on 2005-03-23 17:41:43 GMT from United States)
Am I alone in thinking "Nature's Linux" is an incredibly STUPID name?
I'm hoping it's a glitch in translation.
(There. I've vented.)
58 • Happy Easter (by PP on 2005-03-23 23:26:47 GMT from United Kingdom)
Happy Easter everyone!
Great time to try out a few new distros.. :-)
59 • Re: The name just BUGS me, man (by Anonymous on 2005-03-24 14:17:06 GMT from United States)
"I'm hoping it's a glitch in translation."
Well, according to their website:
Sounds perfectly sensible to me.
Hope that clears things up a bit...
60 • Arabian Linux (by Anonymous on 2005-03-24 15:35:29 GMT from Qatar)
Thank's for the Arabian Linux's link.
It's based on Kurumin Linux, one of the most beautiful distro on earth :)
Also maintained by one of Kurumin's developer itself.
Check it out here:
61 • The name just BUGS me, man! (by ladislav on 2005-03-25 03:49:09 GMT from Taiwan)
I don't find Nature's Linux to be such a bad name. Then again, I've lived in Asia for a few years now, so maybe I am already immune to all the silly names people come up with here. But the first time I heard the names of some Japanese music bands, I used to wonder too. E.g.: "Do As Infinity", "Porno Graffitti", "Kinki Kids", "Mr. Children", "Dragon Ash"... there are many more like this. As if they just took some random words from an English dictionary to make up the name....
62 • What's in a name? (by William Roddy on 2005-03-25 18:59:53 GMT from United States)
A perusal of the list of Linux flavors produces this:
Amber, Astro, Berry, Big, blackPanther, Buffalo, cAos, Damn Small, DarkStar, DeadCD, Deepwater, Devil, DragonFly, EZPlanet One, Feather, Fox, Hiweed, Krud, Loco, Magic, Miracle, Pie Box, Puppy, Runt, Sorcerer, Tao, tinysofa, Vine Whomp!, WOW, YellowDog, and Zen.
Meaning what? Meaning, that we're still just cavemen with clickers (or pointing devices), and we still must have totems, to signify our clan.
There was once even a Beer Linux, a clan I once belonged to (in a literal sense) which was destined for the scrapheap because it's hard to build a good Linux, even with a sober mind.
Names, like species, survive only if they are the fittest. I don't see many major corporate entities choosing their distro from the above list. Imagine, "What operating system are you guys at (insert name of large corporation) using?" "Oh, we use that terrific new one, Cannibal Linux. The only problem we've had is that it occasionally eats our information."
Picking good names is hard. If you have kids, you know what I'm talking about.
Reminds me of the old joke: A Native American kid asks his father, "Why does our tribe name it's children after the first thing the mother sees after she give birth?" The father replied, "I don't know. Why do you ask, Two-Dogs-Mating?"
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