| DistroWatch Weekly
|DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 65, 6 September 2004
Welcome to this year's 35th edition of DistroWatch Weekly. If you had trouble reaching us during the past few days, please accept our apologies - the combined effect of a unannounced DNS change by our DNS provider and a power cut caused by Hurricane Frances over the weekend has put the server beyond the reach of many. Everything should be back to normal now.
- Mandrakelinux, Fedora prepare new releases, Apache and Debian reject Sender ID
- Featured distribution of the week: Feather Linux
- Released last week
- Upcoming releases: Vidalinux 1.0, L.A.S 0.6, Rocks Cluster 3.3.0
- Donations: Vidalinux and Fluxbox receive US$200 each
- New distribution additions: CCux Linux, DARKSTAR Linux, ZerahStar, TrianceOS
- New on the waiting list: OpenIDS, Pollix LiveCD, Skippy Linux, ZoneCD
- DistroWatch in the news: a press release by Conectiva
Mandrakelinux, Fedora prepare new releases, Debian rejects Sender ID
The first week of September proved to be no more eventful on the distribution scene than much of July and August - the proverbial calm before the storm? Of the major distributions, Mandrakesoft brought out the first release candidate of Mandrakelinux 10.1 and the announcement indicated that this would probably be the last test before the 10.1 Community Edition is released to Mandrakeclub members. Many readers were happy to see that the Mandrake Control Center has been reverted to its original design with a side menu for easy navigation (see this screenshot, as part of a 142-page slide show by LinuxBeta.com).
Voices of disappointment appeared too, however - this time because Mandrakelinux 10.1 will not include the latest KDE 3.3. The decision here is purely pragmatic - it has turned out that KDE 3.3 is one of the buggiest KDE releases in recent history. Klaus Knopper of Knoppix has decided to stay with KDE 3.2.3 in Knoppix 3.6, because "[KDE3.2.3] is still more stable than 3.3 in Debian", while Slackware's Patrick Volkerding has placed it into /testing, due to "...a few problems I've had with it (like crashes on logout, and no anti-aliased fonts no matter what kpersonalizer settings are chosen). I think it's a good idea to test it for a while and wait for patches (or for kde-3.3.1)." In short, if you haven't upgraded to KDE 3.3.0 yet, you'll save yourself some frustration if you wait for KDE 3.3.1.
On the Fedora front, we should be able to download Fedora Core 3 Test 2 (version 2.91) at about this time next week. In fact, some pre-release builds have already appeared on a public mirror, as per this mailing list announcement: "I've just started uploading the latest 'release candidate' for FC3test2. This is _NOT_ the final FC3test2 tree. If you're interested in helping with testing for the FC3test2 milestone, wait until it finishes uploading." The "release candidate" has been uploaded here and the tree also includes these release notes.
Following the Apache Foundation's rejection of Microsoft's Sender ID Patent License Agreement, the Debian GNU/Linux project has also issued a formal statement explaining their position: "We believe the current license and resulting encumbrances are incompatible with the Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG), unlike other Internet standards that Debian is able to support. Therefore, we cannot implement or deploy Sender ID under the current license terms." The full press release is available here.
Discontent is brewing among loyal supporters of Lycoris Desktop/LX due to company's unwillingness to update their users and customers on the progress of its yet-to-be-released Desktop/LX 1.4. The company started taking pre-orders for their brand new product in early June, promising the final release before the end of July. This date was later postponed to 16 August and the release of Desktop/LX 1.4 was formally announced on 18 August. Yet, the product never shipped. The usually good-mannered and loyal supporters of the distribution have turned to the Lycoris Greenhouse to vent their frustration; some claimed to have pre-ordered the product and had their credit cards charged as early as beginning of June. However, the company is still tight-lipped about the status of Desktop/LX 1.4 and about the "real" release date.
A communication break-down? Lycoris would go a long way towards eliminating their users' frustration if the company released an open and honest statement about the status of the product. Is there more to the delay than just a few last-minute bugs? Then tell us about it! Nothing contributes more towards discontent of users and customers than the endless waiting with no information about the reasons behind the delay. This is the world of open source code and open communication should be an integral part of it.
An advertising board spotted in South Africa.
|Featured Distribution of the Week: Feather Linux
Judging by the feedback of visitors and also by the number of page hits on several light-weight distributions, the ability of Linux to be deployed on old hardware is one of its great advantages. Do you have an old laptop stashed away in a cupboard? Take it out, it's time to revive it with one of the small distributions designed specifically for this purpose. One of them is Feather Linux, a distribution that fits on a less than 64MB media, be it a CD or a USB pen drive. As such, it was originally designed to be used as a live CD, but the developers have also created a simple hard disk installation script for those who want to give it a permanent place on their hard disks.
Feather Linux is developed by Robert Sullivan. The project was derived from ideas found in Damn Small Linux, but Feather Linux is slightly larger, contains a different set of applications and has a distinct look and feel. One advantage of Feather Linux over Damn Small Linux is its ability to boot from a 64MB USB pen drive (correction: not true, Damn Small Linux boots from a USB pen drive as well), provided that the computer's BIOS supports it. Failing that, it can be burned to a CD, which is more likely to boot on older computers. With Fluxbox as its chosen desktop environment, the performance of Feather Linux is decent, even on something like a 100MHz Pentium machine.
Feather Linux is based on Knoppix, complete with excellent hardware auto-detection. Like Knoppix, the entire distribution can be loaded into RAM for faster performance and it can be used on computers with no (or faulty) hard disks. The set of included applications is carefully chosen to comply with the distribution's goal to be as light as possible; on Feather Linux one can find Dillo for web browsing, Sylpheed for email,Ted and ABS for word processing and spreadsheat calculations, and other similarly low-resource programs.
Find out more about Feather Linux on the distribution's web site and on our Feather Linux page.
Feather Linux: simple, but elegant, a perfect mini distribution for old computers
(full image size 73kB)
|Released Last Week
Burapha Linux 5.4
A new version of Burapha Linux, a Slackware-based distribution from Thailand, has been released: "Burapha Linux is a distribution of Linux originally derived from Slackware Linux. Burapha Linux has a completely different installation system, and contains additional packages, some Thai language related. Burapha Linux is a product of Burapha University Computer Science Department. This is the 5.4 release of Burapha Linux. Burapha Linux is theoutput of our research on building computer systems for use within the Burapha community and for other Thai people such as like teachers and students in school, computer administrators, network administrators, etc." See the announcement and changelog for details.
Following the recent release of Knoppix 3.6, the developers of clusterKNOPPIX have also updated their openMosix-based live CD. From the changelog: "Sync with latest Knoppix release; openmosix 2.4.27-om-20040808 from tabs patches; openmosix-tools 0.3.6-2; tyd 1.5; added: openswan 2.1.5, ipw2100, drbd, fuse, bcm4400 (Debian package); new feature: option to boot 2.4.27-om-migshm-20040808, type migshm after the boot prompt; new feature: option to boot chaos nodes as PXE clients (chaos kernel upgraded to openmosix 2.4.27-om-20040808 and 2.4.27-om-migshm-20040808)."
Feather Linux 0.5.8
Feather Linux 0.5.8 has been released and here are some excerpts from its changelog: "Replaced udhcpd with dnsmasq; added a script to eject the Feather CD while Feather is running, without loading anything into RAM; updated the Monkey webserver to 0.8.5; fixed an fpkg bug relating to /etc/skel and HD installs; made loading of custom packages quieter; added 'exclude' boot option: simply create a file called exclude.list in the root directory of your CD or USB drive, and inside place the files and directories you wish toexclude, one per line; added script to change the background easily - found in the Tools -> Scripts menu...."
Development and unannounced releases
|Upcoming Releases and Announcements
Vidalinux Desktop OS 1.0
If you enjoy Gentoo Linux, but hate its installation routine, you'll be pleased to know that Vidalinux Desktop OS 1.0, with its port of Red Hat's Anaconda to Gentoo, will be released later this month: "We want to announce that on September 30 2004 we will publish the first release of Vidalinux Desktop OS." You can find more details in this list of features. The project has also appealed for financial help; if you think the project is worth a few pennies, pre-order the Vidalinux 1.0 CD from the distribution's online store or give a small donation to reward the developers.
Local Area Security (L.A.S.) Linux 0.6
The developers of Local Area Security (L.A.S.) Linux have published details about their upcoming release, version 0.6: "Just a quick update for everyone in regards to the status of the upcoming 0.6 versions of L.A.S. Linux. We are currently rebuilding the base OS framework to allow for many new features. Along with the 210MB and 185MB versions of L.A.S. Linux. we will also be introducing a larger 400+MB 'Auditor's Desktop' version to round out our offerings." More details here.
Rocks Cluster Distribution 3.3.0
A new beta version of Rocks Cluster Distribution is in the works: "We are planning on releasing a beta of Rocks 3.3.0 in the next few weeks. If there are any bugs (or features) from 3.2.0 that are troubling you please post something on our mailing list and let us know. Thanks." Visit the distribution's home page for further details.
|Web Site News
Donations: Vidalinux and Fluxbox receive US$200 each
Continuing with our programme under which 10% of DistroWatch.com's income from advertising and sale of merchandise is donated to various Free Software projects, the recipient of the July 2004 donation is the Fluxbox project and the recipient of the August 2004 donation is the Vidalinux project. The donations programme is now a joint initiative between DistroWatch.com and LinuxCD.org, which contributed US$100 towards the programme. LinuxCD.org is an online store selling low-cost Linux/BSD CDs - they have the largest selection, inclusive of all the latest releases, and they offer the lowest prices. Next time you need to order your favourite Linux or BSD CDs, get them from LinuxCD.org.
As for Fluxbox, it is an increasingly popular, light-weight desktop environment, excellent for older computers with low amounts of memory. It was originally based on Blackbox, but it has surpassed its parent's popularity. Many of the specialist distributions for older computers now ship Fluxbox as their preferred desktop environments, these include Damn Small Linux, Feather Linux and many others. Find out more about Fluxbox on its project page.
Here is the receipt for US$200:
This email confirms that you have paid Vidalinux.com $200.00 USD using PayPal.
Total Amount: $200.00 USD
Transaction ID: 87885050UA585293N
Item Title: Vidalinux Desktop OS
Vidalinux Desktop OS is a new Gentoo-based distribution that has been climbing rapidly up our page hit ranking - it seems that many people appreciate the developers' efforts to port the Anaconda installer to Gentoo and allow for fast and easy Gentoo installation. The project is scheduled to release its first stable version at the end of this month. Find out more about Vidalinux on the distribution's home page and on this site's Vidalinux page.
Here is the receipt for €160:
This email confirms that you have paid fluxgen at fluxbox.org 160.00 EUR using PayPal.
Total Amount: 160.00 EUR
Transaction ID: 5NJ490573E064293S
Item Title: Fluxbox
And this is the list of projects that received a DistroWatch donation since the launch of the programme:
Readers are welcome and encouraged to nominate a Free Software project for the next donation.
New distribution additions
- CCux Linux. CCux Linux is a free i686 distribution optimised for speed. All packages are built from scratch and not derived from any other distribution. It features a graphical QT/X11 based installation to provide an easy installation procedure even to unexperienced users. CCux Linux is especially designed for desktop use.
- DARKSTAR Linux. DARKSTAR Linux is a Romanian Linux distribution based on Slackware Linux.
- TrianceOS. The TrianceOS operating system is a full-featured, open source, UNIX-like operating system descended from FreeBSD 5. Currently, TrianceOS runs on Intel i386 architectures. TrianceOS is a highly integrated system. In addition to its highly portable, high-performance kernel and derivation from FreeBSD, TrianceOS features a complete set of user utilities, compilers for several languages, the X Window System, kernel firewall software and numerous other tools built especially on top of GUI (Graphical User Interface), all accompanied by full source code. The TrianceOS Packages Collection contains over 175 pre-compiled open source software binary packages and thousands of softwares available around the world.
- ZerahStar Zesktop. ZerahStar Zesktop is a research and development project of ZerahStar, a Singapore-based Linux company. Its goal is to achieve a totally automated computing system that is capable of maintaining and fixing itself without any need for human intervention. Other possible features would include a highly portable and virus-free environment. Zesktop is still a project and concept under development; currently, only a simple, Gentoo-based live desktop CD exists.
New on the waiting list
DistroWatch database summary
- OpenIDS. OpenIDS is a OpenBSD-based operating system with Snort and ACID to demonstrate intrusion detection.
- Pollix LiveCD. Pollix is a live CD with many programming tools (for Java, Python, Perl and Tcl/Tk). Based on Knoppix, Pollix boots from the CD and detects hardware automatically - there is no need for installation. Features: includes many programming tools: J2SE SDK (full with documentation), Jikes, Netbeans, Eclipse, BlueJ, JGrasp, JSwat, Tomcat, JBoss, Boa-Constructor, IDLE, SPE, VisualTcl, SWIG, SciTE, etc, and several Java, Python and Perl libraries; includes XCIN to support Chinese character input; updated software from Debian testing/unstable.
- Skippy Linux. Skippy Linux goal is to become a base for Linux desktop distributions by using a file system structure that is easy for users as well as administrators to understand. The file structure is based on the ideas of LinuxSTEP, MacOS X, as well as NextStep using GNUStep as a desktop.
- ZoneCD. If you are searching for a free free WiFi access solution for your location... you can stop here. Public IP's ZoneCD is freely distributed open source software that has been created to help implement safe, free, WiFi hotspots. The ZoneCD can be used by all levels of free WiFi providers, from experienced programmers to coffee house cashiers. Setting up a free WiFi Hotspot can be as easy as hooking up an access point, popping in a CD and rebooting....
- Number of Linux distributions in the database: 331
- Number of BSD distributions in the database: 8
- Number of discontinued distributions: 35
- Number of distributions on the waiting list: 81
|DistroWatch in the News
A press release by Conectiva
Our last week's "Featured Distribution of the Week (Conectiva Linux) story attracted plenty of attention and feedback in Brazilian Linux media: see BR-LINUX.org, Guia do Hardware, LinuxDicas, Comunidade Conectiva and other web sites, while Conectiva itself published a press release about our coverage:
"This week, Conectiva, a leader of Linux solutions in Latin America, received a compliment from DistroWatch.com for the company's achievements in their nine years of existence, dedicated to the development of Free Software. The site recommends that users try Connectiva Linux 10 and its live CD, mentions some of the prominent personalities of the Linux world formerly employed by Conectiva, and praises the company for releasing all of its software under the GPL."
It looks like we've made some friends in Brazil :-)
And this is where we'll end this issue of DistroWatch Weekly. See you all next week!
If you've enjoyed this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly, please consider sending us a tip.
(Tips this week: 0, value: US$0.00)
1 • KDE 3.3 (by Anonymous on 2004-09-06 11:18:05 GMT) |
> this time because Mandrakelinux 10.1 will not include the latest KDE 3.3. The decision here is purely pragmatic - it has turned out that KDE 3.3 is one of the buggiest KDE releases in recent history.
This reads as if the Mandrake decision was made after seeing KDE 3.3 - which is not true. Mandrake already planned with KDE 3.2.3 in next release when KDE 3.3 was still months away. Also I can't sign this "buggest KDE" statement. And the Slackware/Debian statements sound like packaging problems.
2 • completely unnecessary badmouthing (by Datschge on 2004-09-06 11:24:02 GMT)
Stating "it has turned out that KDE 3.3 is one of the buggiest KDE releases in recent history" sounds like pure badmouthing without backing it with facts.
The official Knoppix 3.6 still uses 3.2.3 because the final 3.3.0 was released just a couple days before it and the existing Debian packages still based on the release candidates, not the final release. And Mandrake didn't include KDE 3.3.0 anymore since they were well in the beta phase already, you just don't exchange whole packages when you are already testing the result of what you put together.
Fabian Franz released an unofficial Knoppix 3.6 with KDE 3.3.0 during KDE's aKademy meeting (also available at http://debian.tu-bs.de/knoppix/aKademy-live/ ), there you can check out if you really consider that "one of the buggiest KDE releases in recent history". Thank you.
3 • Feather not perfect for old computers (by distro-monkey on 2004-09-06 11:26:13 GMT)
Damn Small and Feather have broken APT to make them smaller. If you install Feather on hard disk, you cannot upgrade it using apt-get. This means that Feather hardly is "perfect mini distribution for old computers". Both Feather and Damn Small are good Live CDs, though.
4 • kde 3.3 (by reddazz on 2004-09-06 11:37:01 GMT)
I am suprised by the comments that it is unstable and crashes on Slackware. I am using it on Slack 10 and have not had any problems. Also I agree with previous comments, Knoppix and Mandrake never meant to include KDE 3.3 in their pending releases.
5 • RE: completely unnecessary badmouthing (by ladislav at 2004-09-06 12:09:20 GMT)
Stating "it has turned out that KDE 3.3 is one of the buggiest KDE releases in recent history" sounds like pure badmouthing without backing it with facts.
Without backing it with facts?! So why did I quote two distribution maintainers who have rejected KDE 3.3? The first rejection is explicitly mentioned in the Knoppix 3.6 changelog (sorry guys, your argument that it never meant to be included in Knoppix 3.6 just doesn't hold), while the second is from the recent Slackware current changelog. Go and see for yourself.
As for my "buggiest KDE" statement, this is based on my own experience - KDE 3.3 on my Debian Sid is buggy as hell. A packaging problem? Maybe. But the statements by Klaus Knopper and Patrick Volkerding would seem to confirm that KDE 3.3 is far from stable and bug-free.
6 • Damn Small VS Feather (by Aussie on 2004-09-06 12:35:57 GMT)
I've used both, but I still find Damn Small Linux to be a better OS (especially with MyDSL) and has a bigger following on the forums :P
The best thing is, since they're both tiny you can easily download them both and try them out for yourselves :) Nothing beats having a few spare distro's in your laptop bag!
7 • RE: completely unnecessary badmouthing (by ChrisW on 2004-09-06 12:47:51 GMT)
I've been using KDE 3.3 on some Debian Unstalbe Installs myself and yes it has bugs.. once even the icons of some of my QuickLaunch shortcuts were gone!! Leaving only some gears for Kopete, KMail and Akregator...
But that has been my only 'major' problem so far ;)
Most of what I've read about issues with KDE 3.3 seem to come from Debian users who are using the unusually fast released packages that have only partly changed in the time since - so yes I think some of them have to be based on the latest RC.
Thus I don't think what you've written was very nice though not necessarily untrue since afaik there weren't many bugs in recent KDE releases at all.
8 • RE: completely unnecessary badmouthing (by ladislav at 2004-09-06 13:09:37 GMT)
I don't think what you've written was very nice
I don't think so either. And it looks like I managed to alienate some of the readers, which does makes me sad. But the fact is that I've been using KDE for a long time and I honestly cannot remember a buggier release than 3.3.0. As an example, I have several documents opened in Kate - I can run a spellcheck on most of them, but there are a few which refuse the spellcheck, because they cannot find ispell. Yet, the next open document does find ispell just fine! Or Konqueror - try selecting several files, then right-click on the selection. If I do that, the selection disappears! There are several very annoying bugs in Kmail as well. I don't want to list all the bugs I've found, but I never had any of these problems in KDE 3.2.3.
And I repeat, it's not just me. The maintainers of Slackware and Knoppix have presented their complaints too. Some say that Mandrake never meant to include it in 10.1, but I am not so sure. I have no doubts that somebody at Mandrake packaged it, then tried it out, just to find severe showstopper bugs. Of course, it's just speculation on my part, but I've been following their development style for some time and they do try to include the latest KDE, sometimes even very late in their development process.
In short, there is mounting evidence that KDE 3.3.0 was rushed out too early. You have every right to disagree, but the fact remains that myself and several prominent distribution maintainers are highly unimpressed with it.
9 • Lay off Ladislav (by haldir on 2004-09-06 13:16:24 GMT)
I am not sure why you guys are acting like he killed a sacred cow or something. He is simply reporting the news. He quoted 2 separate distro maintainers and his own experience. I don't know how that equates to badmouthing. I think that the Linux community can openly discuss problems in software without taking it so personally. This isn't M$. If KDE's latest release has problems, it should be discussed. They will get them ironed out and make a better product. Part of the open source movement's success is this "welcomed" feedback from the user base.
10 • fedora (by Bjørn at 2004-09-06 13:20:24 GMT)
woo,, not only the libmp3 that they have removed this time..
"In practical terms, this means that as little as an additional 90MB can be required for a minimal installation, while as much as an additional 175MB can be required for an "everything" installation."
its 1750mb ? or?
11 • KDE 3.3 (by Life at 2004-09-06 14:14:00 GMT)
I'm with ladislav on this one. I installed KDE 3.3 on a Gentoo system, and on a Slackware box in the last week or so, both seem to have similar problems, namely invovling fonts / icons dissapearing or badly rendering, and several segmentation faults during what I percieve as normal usage, even after a complete recompile of KDE and Xorg on the Gentoo system, it was still messy.
This is not to say it will be the same for everyone, you have to understand the vast amount of different system configurations and processes over a variety of different installs, obviously some will cause bugs and issues, whilst others will get along just fine. For Ladislav to quote two developers and echo the opinion based on his own experiences is not badmouthing or proposing unsubstaintiated claims, he has based his opinion on several factors (something which even large mainstream media news reporters rarely bother doing) and I know alot of people would agree.
Anyway, as haldir said, its not like he is waging some war on KDE, just that he found this particular release to be buggy, and trying to help you guys by advising people to wait until a more stable release comes around the corner (which I am sure the KDE Development team will produce), take it or leave it.
P.S. Love the BMW advertising board, my brother works at a BMW outlet here, I will be sure to show him later ;)
12 • Nomination for next donation (by Paul at 2004-09-06 16:06:06 GMT)
I'd like to nominate Autopackage (http://autopackage.sunsite.dk/) for next month's donation. In my opinion, the biggest thing missing from Linux right now is a decent packaging system. I'd really like to see this project suceed and become a universal package that every distro can use. Just my two cents.
13 • Donations ... (by nevixpain at 2004-09-06 16:14:15 GMT)
I would nominate Slax (slax.org) to get the next donation.
I am watching the poject for one year now i think
and it grews very fast. Thomas (the one-man-project leader) anwsers every question in the very active forum as fast as he can (i think so).
Slax it self has a genial hardware detection, is based on slackware, has never crashed for me and is easier to use than suse i think !
14 • Donations (by Siacs on 2004-09-06 16:35:08 GMT)
I am very glad to see you have chosen Vidalinux to give some Money to. For those who have not tried it . PLease do. I use it as my main desktop. It is very impressive , and great support from the developers/forums.Vidalinux , a gentoo based distro that easy to install and looks and performs great.
15 • Damn Small Linux (by distrobug on 2004-09-06 17:45:07 GMT)
I have been running Damn Small Linux from a USB pendrive for some time now and it works great. I wonder why the author
thought only Feather Linux would run from USB ?
Looking at both of these distros and their forums Feather Linux is only a clone of Damn Small Linux
Damn Small Linux creates all the innovative features and new ideas for small distros these days that everyone else follows
16 • Vidalinux (by N11 on 2004-09-06 18:31:56 GMT)
I've been using Vidalunix for the last days and its very inpressive. I'm happy to see thet you chose them.
Sorry for may poor english
17 • re: KDE 3.3 (by Ralph De Witt at 2004-09-06 18:36:10 GMT)
I total disagree with the statement that KDE 3.3 is the buggiest release. I happily use PCLinuxOS pre 7a and have been using KDE 3.3 with out any errors or crashes since it reached unstable. The only problem I had was the install of Agyptian (sp) support for Kmail 1.7. For me the appropriate information was hard to find, and it took several days of working with lead developer to get all the manual configurations done. I think this is the only weak area in KDE 3.3.
18 • Donation (by Slackware Fan on 2004-09-06 18:38:10 GMT)
Do Distrowatch users have any say in who the donations go to? No offense, but Vidalinux and Fluxbox have a very limited audience (no offense to their users or developers, but no matter how you view it that statement is true). Perhaps some people would prefer either more "mainstream" distributions (like Slackware or Debian hehe) or software rather than a distribution (like KDE or Mozilla Foundation)
Maybe a poll would be a good idea.
19 • Re broken APT (by Anonymous on 2004-09-06 18:41:48 GMT)
I don't know about Feather, but Damn Small has the ability to reinstall apt via a handy script.
20 • Damnsmall and USB (by Aiku Tsub at 2004-09-06 19:37:34 GMT)
Damnsmall was the FIRST tiny distro to run from 64MB pendrive.
All one has to do is look at knoppix.net forums to see:
And that was way back when damnsmall was v0.3.6
21 • RE: ladislav / KDE 3.3 bug (by ChrisW on 2004-09-06 20:27:56 GMT)
I don't doubt that you and others have found quite a few bugs and as far as I remember KDE 3.2 was less buggy, so I think we agree, but I haven't found any real showstoppers myself that would make me recommend against using it but as always your milieage may vary...
I think I can explain at least one of the bugs you found:
[i]Or Konqueror - try selecting several files, then right-click on the selection. If I do that, the selection disappears![/i]
The point is that you most probably didn't really click [i]on[/i] the files but somewhere on the "free space" where there is no text or symbol. The problem is that even though this free space withing the Name column doesn't activate a file anymore but it is still highlighted when a file is selected.
The mere facht that you can't click to the left of a filename anymore to open it might upset some people, but if you really thing about it you might agree that to most users not already used to konqueror's old behaviour the "file" equals the file name and the icon - not the whole name column.
So basically it's not your fault but the highlighting is kind of buggy right now - only the file name and icon should be highlighted when selected. This way you wouldn't miss them anymore.
22 • Re KDE 3.3.0 (by Ivan Kerekes at 2004-09-06 20:38:12 GMT)
Maybe my testing and usage patterns are lot less demanding than yours Ladislaw, (I am just an avarage disto junky), but I have KDE 3.3.0 in Conectiva, Yoper 2.1, and in my main distro, PCLinuxOS (pv5, pv7, pv7a) in pv7a I even have xorg 6.8 rc4 installed, and I am quite happy with all of the packaging, and with the stability of KDE 3.3.0.
I am not able to comment on Ralph De Witt setup problems, I never tried to setup KDE in my native language (hungarian), but I know quite a few people who done it. I realy appritiate Ladislaw what you try to say, and respect your opinion a whole lot, ( I am visiting distrowatch at least once in every day) but my opinion that an avarage desktop user wuld find KDE 3.3.0 quite satisfactory and stable.
23 • Konqueror marked files bug (by ChrisW on 2004-09-06 20:48:45 GMT)
Just to let everyone know, I reported the bug described above at bugs.kde.org:
24 • RE: ladislav / KDE 3.3 bug (by ladislav at 2004-09-06 22:09:29 GMT)
The point is that you most probably didn't really click [i]on[/i] the files but somewhere on the "free space" where there is no text or symbol.
You are right, I've tried it now and it works the way you described it. I thought it was a bug because file selection in Konqueror behaves differently than it did in KDE 3.2. Thanks for your explanation.
25 • RE: Donation (by ladislav at 2004-09-06 22:23:00 GMT)
Do Distrowatch users have any say in who the donations go to?
Yes, the article says that readers are welcome and encouraged to nominate projects for the next donation. We've had a discussion about this when the programme was launched and some people were opposed to sending money to large projects (such as the ones you mention), while others disagreed. I try to please all opinions, but it's not always easy.
Fluxbox was nominated by one of the readers, hence the donation. As for Vidalinux, we had a discussion about Gentoo's installation program and many people agreed that it was tedious (fun the first time, but no longer fun if you have to do it more than once). That's when I thought that donating money to a project that has done such a great job with porting Anaconda to Gentoo was a good idea. Both Fluxbox and Vidalinux might be small projects, but remember that EVERY open source project, even Debian or KDE, started up as small ideas and grew from there.
By the way, Debian will receive a donation as soon as they release stable Sarge.
I understand that not everybody likes the projects the donations are going to, but I would still prefer if you nominated a project for the donation, rather than questioning the wisdom of past donations.
26 • Vidalinux (by mariachi at 2004-09-06 23:29:40 GMT)
Good to see money go to a worthy cause like Vidalinux.
These guys have worked hard to get this distro out there and offer heaps of support via their irc channel .
27 • the vidalinux donation (by escapenguin at 2004-09-06 23:29:56 GMT)
Before Distrowatch donated to Vidalinux, they received a total of 25 bucks in donations. They put up the ISOs for free, and they have to pay for most of that bandwidth (there were a few sort-of-working mirrors up the last time I checked and the torrent wasn't working). After a couple thousand downloads of almost a gig each, that adds up quite a bit of loot. Beta 1, which probably should've been Alpha 1 was a disappointment, but the latest beta I tried, beta2, was pretty high quality work for two developers doing this in their spare time. I think the donation was well deserved, especially since these guys took all the scrutiny fired at them and fixed almost everything we bitched about after beta1 was released.
Now imagine if all 2000+ of those downloaders donated one dollar just to help out. I think it's important to help the smaller guys out since most of them do this voluntarily for a largely ungrateful and even sometimes hostile crowd.
28 • Vidalinux (by Sergio on 2004-09-07 00:22:50 GMT)
Very well said, escapenguin, I couldn't agree more.
29 • RE: kde 3.3 (by Mario A. Vazquez at 2004-09-07 00:28:37 GMT)
ladislav says... Or Konqueror - try selecting several files, then right-click on the selection. If I do that, the selection disappears! There are several very annoying bugs in Kmail as well.
Well, I have kde 3.3 on a Gentoo system. I tried selecting some files, pressing the right over the selection, and the selection stays there. No problem at all.
But what I have found is that kde sometimes trash the desktop when selecting or moving objects.
30 • KDE 3.3 (by sanitys3j at 2004-09-07 01:17:29 GMT)
I know it was Patrick who said KDE is unstable, but I've had no prob w/ anti-aliased fonts, or crashes (no more than 3.2.x). I'm running 3.3 on Slack 10 and couldn't be happier w/ it. I think the recent update to Qt may have made a difference though.
31 • KDE fanboys (by wouter at 2004-09-07 02:40:00 GMT)
Will y'all give the man some rest already. It's not as if saying that a recent release of a certain piece of software is buggy or unstable -factually, citing sources and own experiences-, is like taking your lolly-pop away. I'm not a KDE user, but I'd be very happy if someone told me there still are some bugs to iron out *before* I install that version on my main desktop and end up with a broken system.
Don't be such wining fanboys. That's for insecure teenies without identity. Put those flags and bibles away, and use the torches to go look for bugs.
Don't make me regret that the internet became such a commodity, kids.
32 • KDE fanboys (by JoeLinux at 2004-09-07 04:58:54 GMT)
I'm with Wouter and others before him on this one. I bet most of you have missed what it says below 'DistroWatch Weekly' on the top of this page - A weekly opinion column and a summary of events from the distribution world.
And yes, opinion and summary of events of the past week is what it provides including the experiences Ladislav, Patrick and a few other users on various distros e.g. Gentoo, Slackware, Debian, etc had with KDE 3.3. So don't get all that worked up over what is essentially a weekly opinion column guys/gals. Lighten up!
33 • Lycoris (by Holger at 2004-09-07 05:58:30 GMT)
34 • Languages and linux (by Marauder1 at 2004-09-07 06:18:25 GMT)
Hello all, i have a whish.
Could you be more informative in the
Distrowatch language support column than the
I know that multilanguage means more than one
but i would like to know which ones.
35 • Re: KDE fanboys (by Anonymous on 2004-09-07 06:54:08 GMT)
> It's not as if saying that a recent release of a certain piece of software is buggy or unstable
He didn't write that it has bugs (standard blabla: every software has bugs and you don't have to post some random bug from the thousands known here to prove it). He touts KDE 3.3.0 as one of the "buggiest releases in recent history" which is pure flammatory and not assisted by the sources he cites. Personally I think that at least 3.1.0 or 3.0.0 were worse.
Now going back to watch http://bugs.kde.org and waiting for the floods of duplicate bug reports which should happen here according to your description - but they are not being filed. So packaging problems at the end?
36 • RE: completely unnecessary badmouthing (by Anonymous on 2004-09-07 07:03:51 GMT)
> I have no doubts that somebody at Mandrake packaged it, then tried it out, just to find severe showstopper bugs.
So you have no sources, no prove for this statement? That's badmouthing at its worst.
> Of course, it's just speculation on my part
Exactly. And what a coincidence - your speculation hardens your previous claim. ;-)
> and they do try to include the latest KDE, sometimes even very late in their development process
Just compare http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/Mandrakelinux101#Schedule_estimation with http://developer.kde.org/development-versions/kde-3.3-release-plan.html: How should they have made a 10.1 originally planned for 20040815 with KDE 3.3 when KDE 3.3 was always planned to be released after this date?
37 • Has anybody try Mepis 2004.01 (by fm at 2004-09-07 07:12:39 GMT)
Well appearantly Mepis has a release called Simple Mepis 2004.01 but no one ever mentions it although it is clearly stated in dev-mailing list of Mepis. I downloaded yesterday myself and gona try it today.
38 • small live cd inovations (by Stan on 2004-09-07 07:24:52 GMT)
"Damn Small Linux creates all the innovative features and new ideas for small distros these days that everyone else follows"
I totaly disagree.
Not everyone just copies DSL.
I myself prefer AUSTRUMI as a mini live CD
Its 50mb also, but it boots to ram and autoejects leaving the CD drive free to play Mp3 and video cds/DVD. Can DSL do that? This is a new and inovative feature for a small live cd.
It has Mplayer with all latest codexes (DivX AC3 etc)
It has Abiword as word processor (slightly better than TED I think)
It even has GIMP (slightly beter than xpaint I think)
all under 50mb and running fine.
Plus its got a hdd install front end.
It has CD-r writing software, mp3 ripper and even Opera as web browser (slightly beter than Dillo I think)
Oh and its got kernel 2.6.7 and fvm95 as the desktop environment.
How the hell do they fit all this under 50mb when DSL only has such cut down spartan utilities?
Oh and the "myDSL" thing. Why? What the point? I wanted a mini live Cd so I can carry it in my wallet to acess any PC on the move and show off linux with everything usefull already on it. That "myDSL" is only vaguely usefull if its installed which I am not going to do.
And as for Feather. Its just DSL plus 14mb so it cant fit on a mini CD. So why bother? May as well go for the great distro SLAX instead. Slax is awsome and I back the sugestion it maybe gets some cash if at all posible. It really has pushed the bar higher for unbloated distributions. (just wish it has had a graphical installer)
I even prefer LUIT to DSL as its got beter software
Xforce. Abiword, GIMP etc.
So I disagree that DSL is the only mini live CD that is inovative. Sure its one of the first and for its own particular niche market its great.
But other small distros are just as inovative as well.
Try AUSTRUMI and see what I mean.
39 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-09-07 07:41:15 GMT)
Personally I think that at least 3.1.0 or 3.0.0 were worse.
As I said elsewhere, you have every right to disagree. But you will find it very hard to argue the fact (and I didn't want to repeat it again, but you don't seem to get it) that the maintainers of Knoppix and Slackware have both rejected KDE 3.3 on the grounds that it is buggy. Simple as that.
But of course, you are already convinced that the entire purpose of this issue of DistroWatch Weekly was to wipe the KDE off the surface of this planet, reduce their developers to tears and convert everybody to Fluxbox.
If that's the case, then I won't waste any more time arguing with you.
40 • RE: Donation (by fiksve at 2004-09-07 08:11:24 GMT)
> By the way, Debian will receive a donation as soon as they release stable x
41 • KDE 3.3.0 (by BenRoe on 2004-09-07 08:57:46 GMT)
I'd have to agree that KDE3.3 is pretty damn buggy. I use it every day, because in many ways it is still a major improvement, and it's too much effort to go back to 3.2.3 anyway.
But I've had many Kate crashes, kmail doesn't update the folder display when a mail arrives and doesn't display new mails in threaded folder views correctly, kpilot won't stay loaded when I logout and back in again, artsd crashes frequently after playing back wmvs with noatun. If I open several windows in Konqueror, the MacOS style menubar I use only displays the Location menu, all the other items dissappear. There still seems to be an occasional problem where some keyboard shortcuts don't get set if one of the new shortcuts you're setting is a conflict with another one.
Maybe some of these are packaging related (this is on Arch), but the package of 3.3 I used on SuSE 9.1 was far worse.
I'm not complaining, I think KDE is the best desktop out there, but you can't deny it's buggy as hell at present.
42 • kde 3.3 (by reddazz on 2004-09-07 09:31:31 GMT)
Ok, I have to admit it, yesterday I setup a new user on my Slack 10 machine and had problems with using antialiased fonts. I had to logout twice before the fonts worked as they were supposed to. Apart from that small problem I haven't had any bad experiences since I started using KDE 3.3.
Another thing, I believe that sometimes you have to delete your old /home/$USER/.kde folder when you make a new installation of KDE, so that the new installation doesn't clash or coz problems with settings from old KDE apps.
43 • KDE 3.3.0 (by Anonymous on 2004-09-07 09:52:02 GMT)
> but the package of 3.3 I used on SuSE 9.1 was far worse.
Interesting. I have no issues with SuSE 9.1 and their KDE 3.3.0 packages, and I thought all the talk about "the buggy KDE 3.3.0" were all more or less related to the incomplete Debian packages whose maintainer currently concentrate getting good (but now already outdated) KDE packages into Sarge.
44 • KDE 3.3.0 (by BenRoe on 2004-09-07 11:22:01 GMT)
>I have no issues with SuSE 9.1 and their KDE 3.3.0 packages,
I only used the first version that came out - possibly there have been updates since then, but I got fed up with SuSE and switched away.
There were a bunch of bug reports that seemed to come only from SuSE users - for example, the window list button on the kicker would lose applications over time. I did delete my .kde directory before logging into 3.3.0, but it didn't seem to help.
45 • RE: small live cd inovations (by Aussie on 2004-09-07 12:34:16 GMT)
>Its 50mb also, but it boots to ram and autoejects leaving the CD drive free to play Mp3 and video cds/DVD. Can DSL do that?
Well DUH!! It's a Knoppix variant so just use: toram
46 • boot to ram and play video? and fit in my wallet? (by Stan on 2004-09-07 13:17:22 GMT)
yeah but the point is its under 50mb so its very portable
Knoppix wont fit in my wallet!
You must have a bigger wallet than me
oh and even if DSL can be booted to ram it still cant play video like AUSTRUMI can, therfore I can safely say AUSTRUMI has a unique and inovative idea that DSL does not have which is the whole point of my post. I was just trying to point out that not all mini live Cds are following ideas from DSL. Some actualy have their own new ideas and inovations.
47 • Vidalinux (by Vic at 2004-09-07 15:07:30 GMT)
I think Vidalinux is a very great project and it deserves the donation. Unfortunately I have troubles accessing their homepage, does anyone have the same problems?
48 • DSL (by ke4nt on 2004-09-07 16:38:30 GMT)
I like Austrumi, it is a great mini-distro ..
Andrejs has done some nice work with it ..
If your computer is a pentium II, or faster, it performs nicely
He does recommend 96MB ram and a pentium or better.
DSL is geared to be a functional , useable desktop for
486's and small P5's with as little as 16MB ram.
The idea is to have as many "useable" apps for these types of computers as possible.
If you have more horsepower, than the myDSL extensions are a great way to customize your own unique distro .
You can add Gimp2.0, MPlayer, Xine, Firefox 0.9.3, Opera, and dozens and dozens more to your USBkey or MiniCD
( most MiniCD's being 185MB or more )
Easy tools are included to "roll your own" distro, with the apps you want included and ready to rock,
with icons and menus, and themes preset, and you can pick either a miniCD or USBkey to boot your custom creation..
Understandably, a Pentium 90 laptop with 16 or 32 MB ram just isn't going to run MPlayer, Openoffice, Play DVD's,
or benefit from any of these "less spartan" apps ..
Choice is GOOD .. DSL offers both .. That's innovative ..
49 • Re: mini distros (by T.Joe on 2004-09-07 16:53:39 GMT)
I was eager to try Austrumi, but it couldn't boot on either of my computers. Slax is nice, but you can't call anything that runs KDE lean.
50 • Debian KDE Packages (by joe on 2004-09-07 22:37:34 GMT)
I wonder if Debian's packaging of KDE really is causing problems. I have PCLOS p7a and SimplyMEPIS 2004 RC4 installed (both with KDE 3.2.3) and KWin and kicker and kdesktop crash right and left on MEPIS, but not in PCLOS.
Number of Comments: 50
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