| DistroWatch Weekly
1 • 3 years distrowatching (by Emon at 2004-05-31 10:53:44 GMT) |
Happy birthday! Three years of excellent service to the linux-community... you guys deserve a big hug. Without distrowatch, I would have never switched from window$ to linux. Thank you for your outstanding service. : )
2 • Mandrakemove is fast and just works (by Geert at 2004-05-31 11:57:44 GMT)
I had indeed some problems with the Mandrake community edition. But once updated, the main remark was: it just works.
Flawless internet install over LAN, installation and desinstallation of programs does not break the system, does not even bring me in dependecy hell.
However, I had to tweak the install of my sound card (ISA SB 16 pnp). It is a pity harddrake does not "do ISA" any more.
Overall: it is the first time I show my Linux installation to Windows fans, because everything goes smoothly, and the desktop is not too slow. Up to this version, I just could not let them alone with the machine, because they certainly would run into trouble. Now it is just OK
However, my linux box stands next to an I-mac running panter. Panther leaves LInux and windows far far behind, speeding, running, updating.
3 • Birthday Greetings! etc... (by Moe Bergeron at 2004-05-31 12:29:43 GMT)
Thank you again for your great distro coverage. I have a fair amount of liveCD's sitting on my desk waiting for my own personal evaluation thanks to you. I figure if they load up and run on my old Dell XPS T500 then they'll run on just about anything. I've even equipped the Dell with removable hard drives so I could load one or more installable distros onto a drive. The only downside of late is how the latest Knoppix releases no longer recognize my WUSB11 WiFi.
Ques: How much longer before we have a solid and matured contender to beat the pants off of XP or NT?
Ps., Thanks to DW my wife has forgotten my name and that may not be a bad thing.
4 • Mandrake 10 Official, definitively agree (by Luis Medina Avitia at 2004-05-31 13:52:34 GMT)
Of the tree distros, I installed first MDK 10 comm, and then Fedora Core 2. My observations was over general troules to use the sistem and desktop features and devices.
I have problems with sound, FC1 sucesfully install, configure and mak sound, FC2 simple muted. After some docen o forums I try a solution that works but printing to an Epson AculaserC2000 never works torugth a TCP/IP (JetDirect) connection. An Other problem was SMB funcionality this randomly down and set as inaccesible on impredictly situation. The engriest bug was with my USB mouse. This simply dead and no move after disconnect and reconnect the mouse. Un-usuable, sorry Fedora really like to me but i will use on my office just when this bug dissapear.
Mandrake 10 Official was my next try and I'm typing this on him. Estability has impresive and the speed that you talk about definitively make the others look like a slowmotion pictures. All the devices work with out trouble, and some bug on Community edition disapear.
About Suse, I cant look the 9.1 FTP install and i can't comment.
Make you life a great life and don't forget enjoy it.
Luis Medina Avitia
5 • Kudos to an honest man! (by motub at 2004-05-31 14:12:13 GMT)
"...users move to kernel 2.6 (which clearly isn't ready for prime time)."
Thank you for coming out and saying it... I was really starting to think that I was the only one that thought so.
Not that it doesn't work; I've used several 2.6 series kernels, under several distros-- in fact, I'm using 2.6.5-gentoo-r1 right now, and it works fine... but the problems that I had transitioning from the 2.4 series kernel to the 2.6 series were remarkable enough that I'm not surprised that all three of the binary distros that are using the kernel are having some difficulties with their releases.
It's really too bad, given the binary distros target market-- new users who are familiar enough with Linux that they have heard of the 2.6 kernel, and therefore want it, but are not familiar enough with Linux to know what can go wrong with a kernel or how to fix it if it does-- since if said distros hadn't been pretty much backed into a corner by said market, I wouldn't have suggested that any of them move to the 2.6 kernel just yet.
It really doesn't seem to be worth the headaches that many new users are having, and the last thing you want a new user to have is a headache.
Oh, and Happy Birthday!! Never been happier to offer my best wishes for the future to a site (and a person) that has proven so valuable to the community.
6 • Happy Anniversary, DistroWatch! (by SyntaxError at 2004-05-31 14:15:08 GMT)
This site has become my favorite place to learn about the news and releases of the ever growing old and new distro. Excellent work!
Thank you for all the hard work that you do.
----Running Slackware-current with X11R6.7.0----
7 • Which is app showing Famelix? (by Nacho on 2004-05-31 14:38:33 GMT)
I'm totally newbie in linux. Which is the app in the upper-right corner show in Famelix screenshot?
8 • Best wishes! (by Ti-Paul at 2004-05-31 14:57:34 GMT)
First: Happy 3rd to DistroWatch!
You gave us the best tool to get all the latest and greatest news about Linux... Because we know that all Linux fans out-there are always seeking for the newest toys to play with! ;)
Second: Can't add anything more to what has been said...
Mandrake: still got the best all-round system for beginners and expert alike...
SUSE: I've heard about some friends that are SUSE-centric and are going back to SUSE 9.0 because they had to many problems with the latest 9.1...
Fedora: is running really good on my side... Only the Gnome 2.6 which i have some crash of applets or pannel from time to time... But that is caused by me, mounting/unmounting and changeing the /etc/fstab entry... Gnome 2.6 doesn't like something else messing with mount points...
My last comment:
Being a Slackware geek... I'm nervously awaiting the next release... (9.2 or 10??) LIKE ALWAYS, Slackware isn't rushing it's release because Slackware's IS one of the most STABLE of them! ;) It's only lacking of easy-newbie install and gui configuration tools... (I talk about newbies... Because I mostly edit the configuration files by hand)
9 • Re: Which is app showing Famelix? (by DiegoG at 2004-05-31 15:01:11 GMT)
Looks like Karamba or SuperKaramba running some relatively simple theme (can be heavily customized using themes)
10 • App in Famelix screenshot (by Ti-Paul at 2004-05-31 15:06:04 GMT)
For you information the application is "SuperKaramba" for the KDE desktop... (There's also GDesklet for Gnome desktop that does the same)
It's only a background (invisible) running application that able to run some ("scripts") that you can get on their website (or write your own). These "scripts" will give some informations or do some other cool stuff that we weren't able to have with the standard Desktop system...
Ex. There's also a clone of the MacOSX pannel that zoom and slide to launch applications... ;)
11 • The Three Divas/Tenors (by Maurice Anderson at 2004-05-31 15:10:14 GMT)
Your evaluation of the three BIG distros exactly parallels my own experiences with them , so far.
I had no trouble installing either of them to my homebrew whitebox desktop - AMD 1733 on Shuttle VT83366-8233 /512MB RAM - MultiBooted with WinXP Pro. or my SONY VAIO PCG-540K laptop.
Post-installation however, they each showed different shortcomings.
FedoraFC2 faring the worst for daily use - consistently fails to automatically detect/install my PCMCIA Ethernet laptop card (Linksys EtherFast PCMPC100 V3 FastEthernet). thereby forcing a manual installation upon each reboot.
SUSE 9.1, well, its mostly only eye-candy improvement over its predecessor ( SuSE 9.0).
Mandrake10 Official is "The Magician" - Best of the lot - everything works!
12 • 2.6 kernel (honestly) (by Ryan Stutsman at 2004-05-31 15:38:55 GMT)
I've used the 2.6 kernel so far in several distros (Gentoo, Debian, Mandrake, Fedora) and it most certainly is clearly ready for primetime.
Saying that the kernel isn't ready simply because distros haven't taken the proper time/testing to ensure everything works after the transition is pretty irresponisble if you ask me.
2.6 is aboslutely fantastic. Have I had problems: yes. Is it still young: yes. Does it work as good if not better than 2.4 in almost all places: certainly. It is the responisbility and the choice of the distro as to when they ship these changes. User demand has caused some of these distros to ship it sooner rather than later.
In distros like Debian and Gentoo I have no problems toggling back and forth between 2.4 and 2.6. The "big 3" however, have a lot more integration that has to be ported or replicated with the 2.6 kernel.
Make whatever you want of all this. But one thing I've found for certain is that 2.6 is great. Not always the same, but great.
13 • The big trio (by Colnago at 2004-05-31 15:53:36 GMT)
I have tried all three distros and I would agree completely with the synopsis. It seems like fc2 is only the fedora 'community' edition still, and suse seemed to lack any advantage over rel 9.0 aside from the speed of the new kernel and kde 3.2.2.
Happy birthday and thanks for all of the great work.
14 • 2.4 worked for me 2.6 wants me to update my bios (by Distrowatch reader on 2004-05-31 17:35:25 GMT)
My logs show the 2.6 kernel is not for me (Debian sarge net install).Your bios is too old 2000. Then the kernel switches back and forth use my bios no dont use my bios on and on starting my services two or three times. When I ran chkrootkit it showed 1 portsniffer plus 4 hidden process's. Dhcp client had started 3 times pump twice gdm +kdm were battling it out.
I prefer to run 2.4 and just use the computer, sarge works fine with 2.4
15 • 2.4 worked for me 2.6 wants me to update my bios (by Distrowatch reader on 2004- (by maceto on 2004-05-31 18:28:03 GMT)
chkrootkit +2.6 don`t work and gives you JUST that- I am not going to flame you as others may do :-) just that as of now it may work/not work- did for me just one day ago- but know it has not
16 • More about the 'big boys' (by Sergio on 2004-05-31 18:53:29 GMT)
I basically agree.
Mandrake seems to be the best this time.
But then there are two issues which really annoy me:
1) No root graphical login. It is pretty easy to solve, but then I don't need babysitting, nor I believe the majority of linux users do. When I come across distros which don't allow root login it makes me wild. This is particularly the case with LiveCDs, as you want to use them often as rescue tools, so you need unconditional access.
2)URPMI instead of apt4rpm. This is IMO a HUGE minus.
In fact there is apt in their powerpack, but an apt-get update doesn't work.
17 • UTOPIA Linux Distro Innovation (by adrian15 at 2004-05-31 18:54:48 GMT)
As the 3rd Distrowatch birthday, I want to dream a bit.
I am asking in http://metadistros.hispalinux.es if could it be possible to make a live cd in which you could chose what to install and what not.
You could check what files would not be copied when the user selects a debian package not to be installed and tell the user that there's a dependency problem... and if he wants to remove the other packages or not.
So that finally you copy not all the cds... but only the needed files.
This could give live cds distros a new boost because you could use them as a live cd or as a normal distribution.
And... my long-dreamed Promise Linux... which would be perhaps called otherway due to Promise enterprise. An hybrid Windows, Linux Distribution. Imaging mixing TheOpenCd and a linux live cd. Not only programs but also programs configurations with a common partition in which to share data.
Imagine. Let's hope that in 2005 I will have more spare time than 2004. Promise is one my dreams and I think it is easily achievable if we only focus on programs and not in configuration and the shared partittion.
Anyone interested in the projects can contact me, of course.
Promise is still vaporware and metadistros is a piece of software designed to help you making live distros and normal distros too without too much effort. It's an Spanish project as it would perhaps be Promise.
18 • Mandrake is the best Desktop distro (by Edwin Helsig on 2004-05-31 19:18:26 GMT)
There's no doubt: Mandrake IS the best. Beginning with its packages selection and ending with its nice design (it was the first time I ever kept any desktop background image, whether it be windows, Knoppix, or Redhat.)
The only thing I hate about it is the way it tries to get rid of Midnight Commander, as if they plan to ignore the console more and more (which is wrong.) I understand this is a desktop-oriented distribution, but... still... Midnight Commander?!
As for Fedora, I have nothing against it; it's just not for the desktop, which never seemed to have been a priority for Redhat (However, AFAIK, it will soon become one. I will talk more about it then ;)
(Oh, I forgot to mention SuSE?... Anybody can give me a link for some free ISO's to download? Well, I thought so. Then I just guess SuSE doesn't exist for me. I care about SuSE as much as SuSE cares about me.)
19 • Suse ISO's (by Sergio on 2004-05-31 20:07:37 GMT)
Well, I could give you links to SuSe ISO's, but they are 'illegal' (no, not really, because we are talking about linux, 'unofficial' would be a better definition)
But then of course you know that SuSe offers you a FTP download, which isn't difficult at all.
Personally I have never been bothered by such issues: if I like a distro I am happy to pay for it.
The point is another one: I have been badly disappointed by SuSe 9.1, because it is a lot less stable than 9.0, IMO, and I am reading that many more people are.
Anything to do with the change of ownership?
20 • Re: More about the 'big boys' (by Sergio on 2004-05-31 18:53:29 GMT) (by Chris Hickman at 2004-05-31 23:11:04 GMT)
Why don't you like URPMI? And you can certainly use apt4rpm if you want to, but I think that URPMI is my second favorite package dependancy solver next to portage/emerge...if you could automatically download a mirror list in the setup process and have it use a round-robin process as to which mirror to use (to both evenly distribute load and prevent reconfig when a mirror goes down), it would be my favorite, because the graphical interface is nice and all the packages have nice descriptions :)
21 • The Big Trio compared (by Tomislav Djokic at 2004-05-31 23:28:03 GMT)
Big Trio? What about Knoppix 3.4? Maybe this is not a real distro because it's a Live only? I have it on hdd and works good. Because of Intel536ep winmodem I must use kernel 2.4 (no driver yet?)
And happy birthday! DW is must-visit-every-day site for me, just like familly member.
22 • Kernel 2.6... (by benn at 2004-05-31 23:54:42 GMT)
I've been using Arch Linux's 2.6 kernels since 2.6.0, and I've not had ONE issue with the kernel, despite Arch Linux going through some growing pains and a few messed up packages (like GNOME 2.6...I think the problems are over).
I think the problems relating to the 2.6.x kernels are largely (as another poster suggested) due to some distros usage of it, because for me, the 2.6 kernels have been pure joy: better speed, better response, better sound with ALSA and NO crashes.
This is still just MY experience, but I'm totally sold on the 2.6 kernel.
23 • Oh, yes: Happy Birthday! (by benn at 2004-05-31 23:56:44 GMT)
I came to distrowatch a couple of years back for distro info and I've come here first for all the info whenever I've wanted to try a new distro. Thanks alot!!!
24 • Kudos and Happy Birthday! (by Mick on 2004-06-01 00:12:26 GMT)
Through Distrowatch I have been able to track changes and release dates for my favorite distros, and have found the whole site to be a wealth of information. Bravo, kudos, and keep up the great work!
25 • Re: Chris Hickman (by Sergio on 2004-06-01 00:23:26 GMT)
Thanks, I'll try that
26 • Mandrake (by Kevin on 2004-06-01 01:25:03 GMT)
With various systems in various configurations I've always had the best luck with Mandrake. I think 7 was the first version I ever got and was also the first Linux distro I ever got to run on anything. I'm running Mandrake 10 Official about 25% of the time right now. I like it, I've just got a lot to learn still about getting nVidia drivers working with the 2.6 kernel and the fonts looking pretty in Mozilla 1.8 and nobody's interested in helping me on the couple of message boards I've posted on.
I love the speed of the new 2.6 kernel in all the new distros. FC2 is nice but there's too many things that MDK does for you out of the box that I'd have to find help with. Automatically mounting my NTFS partitions and DVD drives alone is enough to sell me. I prefer MDK's KDE as well. I'd consider purchasing MDK 10 to run all the time when I'm a little more comfortable with installing things in Linux. I'm learning fast though. I visit DW at least once a day to get the scoop on what's new. Great work LB!
27 • MandrakeLinux in Hindi (by Kanwar Plaha at 2004-06-01 01:28:04 GMT)
Can you also post the URL for the said website? Maybe distrowatch can, if you guys have it that is :-)
28 • Happy Birthday !! (by Platypus at 2004-06-01 02:02:40 GMT)
Happy birthday ! Congrats for three beautiful years of stalking !
29 • distrowatch (by scott wilson at 2004-06-01 02:07:46 GMT)
Hppy birthday, I direct everyone to your web site, good basic information on Linux! I have been using Linux for about 4 years now. I am really happy and sticking with Fedora, I did experiment with Slackware and Debian, after four years Slack keeps getting better, Debian still has the most rude support I have ever delt with. M2C, if you want to use a upper tier Linux Distro, go with Slackware dont waste your time with Debian. By the way Slackware works wonderful on a IBM TP 600 with wireless card, Debian Didn't.
30 • No subject (by Re: scott wilson on 2004-06-01 02:49:45 GMT)
If you want a "friendly Debian" (both user friendly and a friendly and excellent support), try Libranet.
If you prefer you can start with 2.7, which is a free download, or buy 2.8.1 for about $29.
31 • RE: MandrakeLinux in Hindi (by ladislav at 2004-06-01 02:49:46 GMT)
Forgot to post the link, sorry about that. The site is here: http://in.geocities.com/dysxhi/
32 • Re: scott wilson (by Sergio on 2004-06-01 03:34:38 GMT)
Sorry, I posted that, but I made a bit of a mix up.
33 • Happy B'day (and is Mandrake that good ?) (by Emil Chandrawisesa on 2004-06-01 04:02:34 GMT)
Happy B'day distrowatch. I'm newbie to linux (not too newbie, cause I've developed software for it, I'm newbie in actually configuring and using it :D ), and you helped me break free from microsoft. You really convinced me that there ARE alternatives :D
My conversion to Linux began with Knoppix, and today I've been happily using Mepis Linux on my office desktop.
I'm interested to try other linux distro too for my home PC, and the reviews for MDK really attracts me. But is it really that good ? When I first looked for my PC desktop replacement some of my friends recommended against Mandrake because they said that it is troublesome to compile source code packages in MDK due to non-standard library and header files placement on the disk. And I have had bad experiences with RPM before, Knoppix and Mepis have really convinced me that Debian based distros have much more mature package management that I've gotten almost phobic about trying to update/install packages using RPM. Has MDK gotten over those problems ?
Currently Kannotix, Ark, and Mandrake are in my list of candidates for my home PC desktop OS replacement.
34 • Happy B'day (by Andrew on 2004-06-01 05:42:13 GMT)
Happy Birthday from all the Australian views of Distrowatch :D
Love you work!!
35 • 2.6 kernel is the one for me ..... :-) (by foobar on 2004-06-01 07:01:34 GMT)
I have to agree with benn's comment - I've found 2.6 to be an **excellent** kernel!
I'm using 2.6.4 in Mepis, and I've found it to be rock-solid. The selling point for me is that the 2.6 kernel seems to have MUCH better hardware detection. For the first time ever, my winmodem has been detected and can be used.
I will not even look at any distro still using the 2.4 kernel - let's face it, 2.4 will be very soon regarded the way that (ecchh) 2.2 is now ...... Why waste effort on putting duct-tape on the old jalopy that is 2.4.... :-)
36 • RE: 2.6 kernel is the one for me (by ladislav at 2004-06-01 07:43:51 GMT)
I'm using 2.6.4 in Mepis, and I've found it to be rock-solid.
I suspect that you don't know the meaning of "rock solid". There are people who wouldn't compile their kernel with anything other than gcc 2.95.3 (released well over three years ago), because they claim that anything newer than that will make the kernel not rock solid. I'd be highly suspicious of anybody who claims to have a "rock solid" kernel while all they use their computers for is a bit of net browsing and office work.
I too have been using kernel 2.6 since about 2.6.3 and had no problems at all. But if only 5% of people have found it problematic, then we know that it's not only not ready for general public, it is definitely not "rock solid". It will take another year, maybe even two years of using it under extreme conditions and subsequent bug fixing before we can claim that 2.6 is "rock solid".
37 • RE: kernel 2.2 (by ladislav at 2004-06-01 07:56:10 GMT)
let's face it, 2.4 will be very soon regarded the way that (ecchh) 2.2 is now
FYI, this very web site you are reading is running on kernel 2.2.20. Do you think I am scratching my head trying to figure out how to migrate to a newer one, just because you say that 2.2 is "ecchh"? You must be joking! Kernel 2.2 is still very much in development as we speak - simply because it's still in use and still in demand. Don't burry it just because it's two generations old!
38 • Mandrake ? yeurk... (by KaZe on 2004-06-01 08:09:41 GMT)
Hi all, and happy birthday to distrowatch ! :)
About the comparaison of the 3 divas, i disagree with those who say mandrake is polished. Trying the different versions (all 9.x and both 10.0), the installation isn't flawless. Neither is the use ! It freezes constantly, and my homebrew PC is made of good quality pieces. I do say Mandrake is the worst major distro I encountered.
Fedora Core 1 (and 2 now) is simple to use, simple to install (but you install only once don't you ? ;) ) and using apt is a real joy. I agree it's a third party tool, but http://freshrpms.net makes it easy to download. And with this tool you can even download MP3 plugin for xmms ;)
IMHO, yum isn't as good as apt at this time.
I cannot talk about SUSE, I've never used it.
I don't understand why there's so much anger towards RedHat and Fedora... Sorry, but I prefer using a good polished distro rather than Mandrake... ;)
39 • To DistroWatch (by Oscar on 2004-06-01 09:50:55 GMT)
Happy birthday :D !!!
40 • SuSE and Mandrake (by Ben Roe at 2004-06-01 10:53:35 GMT)
My experience with Mdk10 is that, while a very nice distro in many ways, it is just too unstable and untested. A few examples:
- Both the installer and the drak configuration tools locks up with a USB keyboard/mouse plugged in
- I found random freezes on startup and shutdown
- Kdevelop had a major crash bug on opening a large project
Those are pretty easy bugs to find that should really have been fixed before releasing an official version. I also had a fair few instability problems.
I'm curently using SuSE 9.1, which is almost equal in terms of features but miles ahead in stability IMHO.
41 • Fedora is nice but.... (by Eric Yeoh at 2004-06-01 13:05:55 GMT)
I have used the top 3 distos and always preferred Mandrake because of 3 very compelling reasons, 1. It has excellent management tools, 2. The sheer amount of programs in their repositories and 3. Everything just get mounted.
Well I have used RH since 7x and the thing I dislike most is...everything gets mounted alright but only at read-only. It took me much time running around the web to get the right info tweak the fstab file so that as a user I can write to my own FAT32 data drive. Why should it be that way? I can understand if the filesystem is remote.
As for the 2.6x kernel I am generally happy with it as everything runs faster and smoother. As for rock-solid well I have not stressed it enough to be sure but so far it just works.
SuSE is a good distro however I find that the package selection at installation look too darn complex for its own good.
42 • Three Years? Is That All? (by Mateo_GWJ at 2004-06-01 13:23:37 GMT)
Congratulations on Three years! Seems like it was longer, like you've been here since Linus first allowed the kernel to escape his harddrive.
Kudos, and keep up the good work!
43 • Xbox Debian latest release (your link goes to the old version) (by Anonymous on 2004-06-01 13:31:54 GMT)
22 April 2004: Xebian 1.0.2 released!
Ed has released Xebian 1.0.2 today! Some new features include: Freevo is now included, and improved Xbox-IR remote support also. Hopefully, the FOCUS video support, particularly for HDTV should be improved also. As always, user feedback is welcome, either to the mailing lists, or the Xbox-Linux IRC channel #xbox-linux on irc.oftc.net. Get it here!
44 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-06-01 13:46:36 GMT)
> When I first looked for my PC desktop replacement some of my friends
> recommended against Mandrake because they said that it is troublesome to
> compile source code packages in MDK due to non-standard library and header > files placement on the disk.
Your friend doesn't know what he's talking about.
> And I have had bad experiences with RPM before
rpm as a package format, or rpm as a package installation tool? If you've been using rpm as a package installation tool, you need to try urpmi (and Mandrake includes apt and yum in contrib anyway, you can just urpmi them if you want to give them a try.
> Has MDK gotten over those problems ?
Mandrake hasn't had any problems with package management in the past two years. Don't assume Red Hat is a good indication of a rpm-based distro.
45 • "incriminating a partition that had nothing to do with Fedora" (by Kim Krecht at 2004-06-01 13:47:20 GMT)
If you are referring to bug #115980, that's a funny way of saying "modifying the partition table in a way that disabled the booting of my Windows partition" - appearing to me and others as if you are reluctant to "admit" that you're actually using Windows. ;) Furthermore, "it was too late to compensate for the earlier failure" indicates that the bug's consequences have upset you quite a lot. How emotional towards an operating system you deny your usage of.
Don't get me wrong: I'm using Windows myself. But I wouldn't deny that very fact - there ARE good reasons to use this OS.
All and everything, of course, only if you are actually referring to bug #115980. :]
46 • Many thanks to DW (by FrankoBoy at 2004-06-01 14:04:46 GMT)
Congratulations to Ladislav and you DW folks for this wonderful place. It helped me alot to discover, migrate to and learn about Linux-based systems, and still does. Your constant and accurate work is a blessing, and I really hope you continue it for a pretty long time.
I do contemplate the possibility of donating some cash to you, a thing I very rarely do being a student. Consider it very telling :) You fully deserve it.
47 • RE: SuSE and Mandrake (by HelloWorld82 on 2004-06-01 14:14:34 GMT)
I dont know what you are talking about.
to 1) I have an usb mouce, and an usb keyboard, never the installer, nor drakxtools locks up!
2) My Machin never freezed. It's the most stable linux I ever installed. What hardware do you have
3) So, for 3 : I don't use kdevelop. I tried it, it seems to work nice, But I qould never develop something big with it, emacs is so much nicer. Perhaps this is also a kde bug, then you should report a bug at http://bugs.kde.org
48 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-06-01 14:31:00 GMT)
> Trying the different versions (all 9.x and both 10.0), the installation isn't
> flawless. Neither is the use ! It freezes constantly, and my homebrew PC is
> made of good quality pieces.
Most likely your Mo/bo has a buggy APIC, you should check the "noapic" checkbox during installation (during bootloader configuration). Mandrake has been defaulting apic to on since 9.0 IIRC, which would seem to match your experiences.
> and using apt is a real joy. I agree it's a third party tool, but
> http://freshrpms.net makes it easy to download. And with this tool you can
> even download MP3 plugin for xmms ;)
And Fedora/RedHat is the only distro you need this for.
With urpmi, you can install anything (including libdvdcss etc etc).
Of course, you can urpmi yum or apt if you want.
49 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-06-01 14:38:44 GMT)
> But then there are two issues which really annoy me:
> 1) No root graphical login. It is pretty easy to solve, but then I don't need
> babysitting, nor I believe the majority of linux users do.
Until you can get around without logging in as root, you should *not* be logging in as root. You can do everything logged into your desktop as a user. There is only one reason to log into a desktop as root ...
> When I come across
> distros which don't allow root login it makes me wild.
You have a lot to learn yet then. I go wild when servers are setup to allow direct root login (either on the console or via ssh), which is why I like msec level 4 ...
> This is particularly the
> case with LiveCDs, as you want to use them often as rescue tools, so you
> unconditional access.
On MandrakeMove, just 'su', and you will be root.
> 2)URPMI instead of apt4rpm. This is IMO a HUGE minus.
# urpmi apt
> In fact there is apt in their powerpack,
Actually, it's in contrib (ie available on the FTP mirrors). Powerpack includes part of contrib (there's too mcuh to fit on the media ...).
> but an apt-get update doesn't work.
But urpmi --auto-select will ...
50 • Re: No subject (by KaZe on 2004-06-01 15:19:08 GMT)
>Most likely your Mo/bo has a buggy APIC, you should check the >"noapic" checkbox during installation (during bootloader >configuration). Mandrake has been defaulting apic to on since 9.0 >IIRC, which would seem to match your experiences.
Fedora has apic by default too, and it installs very well. My mobo is an Abit KR7A-Raid, based on a Via KT266A chipset.
>And Fedora/RedHat is the only distro you need this for.
yes, 'cause mp3 needs a patent in US. Fedora comes from US, so...
>With urpmi, you can install anything (including libdvdcss etc etc).
with apt too : my sources.list is about 2 pages long(with some comments), which equals about 10 differents repositories. And with a litte "apt-get install mplayer", the libdvdcss is instantly on my hard drive (minus the download time I admit ;) )
Finally, maybe we can say the best distro is the one which you are using well without difficulties :)
51 • Big Three (by Herweg on 2004-06-01 15:52:51 GMT)
I totally agree with the review. I was running Fedora Core 1 for a long time, having learned on Red Hat 9, I figured it was the next logical step. I guess I could still be considered new to Linux, but I like to play around when I'm learning and try damn near everything, so I also checked out Mandrake 9 (which I hated), Knoppix (live, great, HD install, not so great), Mandrake 10.0 Community (awful, awful release), Fedora tests when they came out, and finally Fedora 2 and Mandrake 10.0 Official. I'm currently running Mandrake 10. It's an excellent release. I wasn't even going to try it, after having run community which was really really buggy on my machine. Fedora just wasn't cutting it anymore though, what with up2date hanging ALL THE TIME, and besides that, it just feels very immature. FC2 Final still feels like a beta. I appreciate what Fedora is trying to do, keeping up with all the latest, most cutting edge software, but ultimately, I was dissapointed with it. Mandrake 10 Official came out and totally surprised me, like I said, I wasn't really even going to try it out, but I read so many good things about it, plus I fell in love with KDE after having used Debian/Knoppix for a short while (yes, I know I can use it with Fedora as well, Mandrake just has it as default). This is the first Linux distro I have felt this comfortable with, and unless something majorly drastic happens, I think I will be keeping it around for a while to come.
52 • RE: incriminating a partition that had nothing to do with Fedora (by ladislav on 2004-06-01 15:57:46 GMT)
If you are referring to bug #115980, that's a funny way of saying "modifying the partition table in a way that disabled the booting of my Windows partition"
No, you are way off. As a matter of fact, it was a FreeBSD partition (I have no Windows installed anywhere on this computer). I didn't want to go into any unnecessary details, but just before getting ready to copy files from the CD to hard disk, I received an error saying something about "fatal error: /dev/hdc1 is mounted read-only" (or something similar, I can't remember the exact wording). The strange thing was that I was trying to install Fedora Core 2 on /dev/hda6, without even touching the second hard disk! My /dev/hdc1 has FreeBSD 4.10 on it.
I didn't want to complain too loudly - after all, I should have tested one of the Fedora Test releases and report the bug to the developers. But I didn't, so I can only blame myself.
53 • Re: SuSE and Mandrake (by Ben Roe at 2004-06-01 19:11:34 GMT)
>1) I have an usb mouce, and an usb keyboard, never the installer, nor >drakxtools locks up!
This happened several times, and I've seen it reported in reviews of Mdk10. It's also reported in the bug database, but marked as "need info".
>2) My Machin never freezed. It's the most stable linux I ever installed. What >hardware do you have
A perfectly stable Athlon/KT7A/Radeon 9200 machine that was fine in SuSE, arch,debian and even gentoo.
>3) So, for 3 : I don't use kdevelop. I tried it, it seems to work nice, But I >qould never develop something big with it, emacs is so much nicer.
Kdevelop is pretty good for development these days - the class view is good for large class hierachies. The bug is reported in the Mdk bug database, and the workaround is there too. It just was an indication of a lack of testing, especially as KDevelop is quite an important package.
54 • Re: no subject (by anonymous) (by Sergio on 2004-06-01 19:12:41 GMT)
I couldn't care less about your opinions about my level of knowledge: then I suppose that all the distros that allow root login (by far the majority) are managed by a bunch of idiots: once again, *if I need babysitting I go back to MS*
My answer: PCLinuxOS (just to mention the most closely related) is *ways* better than Mandrake: I could have a sneak preview of P6 and I like it better than Mandrake from *every* single point of view.
And then SuSe and Debian:
SuSe: most unfortunately 9.1 is in my experience rather buggy, but when it comes to features, choice of apps (including the ones you get from apt4rpm) Mandrake needs years to catch up.
And then Debian, which is an absolute dream of choice and freedom.
55 • Happy Anniversary! (by Soloact at 2004-06-01 22:13:35 GMT)
Thank you for this highly informative site! I appreciate the valuable package information, the comparisons, and the variety of distros covered. I am enjoying this site on a daily basis, and have tried many various distros because of this site.
-A Happy Time-Saver
56 • Whoo, been that long allready? (by Jesse Tie-Ten-Quee at 2004-06-01 22:39:32 GMT)
Heh... to think that I still remenber that old comparisent. Glad to see you're still working at it ladislav :) Thanks for all the effort over the past 3 years!
57 • Lots to learn just from the comments! (by mark at 2004-06-01 22:56:57 GMT)
First, congrats to Distrowatch, and thanks Ladislav for all your hard work!
...I don't think 2.6 has much to do with hardware detection in Mepis, credit would be more likely due to the hard work of the distribution creator and open source community...
...Ladislav, perhaps having a hard disk on hdc is a bit of a challenge for some distros (wouldn't they all be expecting a cdrom there?)...
...for sure to second the comment from KaZe, there seem to be lots of chipsets/cpu combos out there not ready for APIC (I have an Athlon700/AMD chipset and PIII/370 chipset that both have problems with it), perhaps that's why there are so many installers out there with that option on the install! I have heard it's not even useful unless you have a P4 or dual cpu system (ref: OpenNA kernel building guide.)...
...a "bios too old 2000" comment in Sarge netinstall is most likely due to the installer kernel configured for ACPI instead of APM and your MB bios has no ACPI ability...is APM still an option in 2.6? If not then perhaps other kernel versions will be around for a long time eh ladislav?
58 • RE: Lots to learn just from the comments! (by ladislav at 2004-06-01 23:30:38 GMT)
perhaps having a hard disk on hdc is a bit of a challenge for some distros (wouldn't they all be expecting a cdrom there?)
I don't know about "challenge". I've had it there for over 3 years and no distro, including Fedora Core 1, has ever complained.
But I've heard this opinion before. I placed the second hard disk on secondary master (/dev/hdc) on purpose, with my first hard disk on primary master (/dev/hda), because I often copy files from one hard disk to the other. I thought things would go faster if one cable did the reading while the other was doing the writing, instead of doing both operations through the same cable. Is my logic wrong? Anybody knows more about this?
59 • Happy Brithday (by Geert at 2004-06-02 01:43:18 GMT)
Did I mention how Mandrakemove reads NTFS without any problem, and connects automaticallly to Internet through my lan? way beyond Windows.
60 • gnuLinEx (by Sergio on 2004-06-02 03:28:57 GMT)
Great news about gnuLinEx.
Its specs make it one of the most advanced Debian installers at the moment.
Pity that it is in Spanish. But being Debian it shouldn't be too difficult to change the language.
61 • Mandrunk, SuSE, HatRed Linux (by Benjamin Vander Jagt at 2004-06-02 04:43:19 GMT)
At the risk of offending people in the Distrowatch maintenance crew, I must ask if you used Mandark Linux 10.0 for any extended period. The more I use it, the more bugs I get. It's so far from standards-compliant that I have trouble calling it a Linux. I've written a few bug lists for it already, and I have more to add:
Doesn't power off on many chipsets
Kernel panic when USB device removed in some cases
Doesn't see certain laptop hard drives
Installer far too confusing for a new user
Drake will sit there doing nothing for a very long time
sshd sometimes works, sometimes doesn't
STILL doesn't detect ANY of my wireless cards
*Sometimes* can't install nVidia drivers
ATi Rage 128's don't get 3D acceleration for whatever reason (still just don't know)
I'm not the only one who has such trouble with Mandracula. It seems that many reviewers have little more to mention than the bugs, with at least one revisiting his review to write more!
I really feel so bad about Fedora. Release 2 is better than release 1 in most ways, but it's far from consistent enough for anyone who doesn't know how to cobble something together. (For instance, you need to build a custom kernel to use the nVidia drivers.) And if you know that much about Linux, then you're likely to just use Slackware-current?
Because of Red Hat's history of sticking firmly to principles, I do still see a bright history for them. Fedora, tho, isn't the type of thing I'd use myself at this time.
I have not been a SuSE fan for long. I have a longer history with Red Hat than with SuSE, but being that I sell Linux systems in the states (which ain't all that easy), I've had a lot of experience with many distributions in the last half year. SuSE 8.1 was nice, easy to use, extremely friendly...and buggy as hell. SuSE 8.2 was nicer, easier to use, came with even more awesome software...and was even buggier! SuSE 9.0 came out, and I was shocked. Not only did everything work well, but it was refined inside and out and loaded with software. SuSE 9.1 I have not tried (I'm not cheap. I just don't have a credit card.), but many around me have for some time now, and I have heard no complaints from it at all, even from a dial-up user. I always shove Slackware packages into SuSE, and everything (almost) always works. As I've said before, it's a testament to their standards-compliance (Vanilla is now my favorite flavor of Linux.) that I've used Slackware to upgrade GNOME, KDE, XFree86, all the X apps, and base Linux binaries, and I don't get so much as a hiccup.
I have on occasion had a little trouble with KPPP in 9.0, but when it fails to connect, it tells you how to fix it. (Oh how I hate the Windows world. "Baa! Windows broke something. Duh!") SuSE 9.0 is now "old stuff", but the new offerings from Mandrake and Fedora remind me of the Beatles' Revolution #9 era.
And I'm so glad about Slackware taking the high road. ^_^ I emailed 'em, and emails do count. (Ethics matter most, and don't be mistaken. Software freedom is a moral matter.)
Happy birthday DistroWatch! :-D Now when is your birthday, Ladislav? q=
(PS: The Linux-only computer store..make that stores..are doing well, and my competition, even a Debian Linux expert, says Linux isn't ready for the desktop. Funny, I've been using it happily for years.)
62 • Re: Benjamin Vander Jagt (by Sergio on 2004-06-02 07:07:30 GMT)
Hallo Mr Vander Jagt
I'd really like if you could try Suse 9.1 and possibly write a review.
Personally I don't know what to think: it is packed with very nice new features and cool apps.
But on the other hand in my own experience it is a lot buggier than 9.0
So it would really be nice to hear your opinion.
63 • The big three (by escapenguin at 2004-06-02 08:52:27 GMT)
I had a lot of problems with Fedora Core 2 as well. After installing successfully and then running up2date, my system was left in an unusable state, so I put Mandrake 10 official back on since nowadays I just don't have the time to futz around with problems as much. This was my first time I had felt the urge to check out Fedora, so even though I knew it was a test release, I was a little disappointed. If they work the bugs out with GNOME ( I mean, it _is_ GNOME-centric right?), up2date, and the package installer, I'm sure it would work fine.
To really understand how nice the new SUSE is you have to go through and play with every application they had a hand in contributing to. Just about every bit of software was personally packaged or enhanced in some little or major way that helps give SUSE an edge in that department (check out the OpenOffice apps). The major problem I have with SUSE is how difficult it is to add outside sources to install software. Mandrake makes it simple with urpmi, and while you can install apt on SUSE, it should be easier to accomplish the same with YaST. I know they have their reasons for it, but maybe they could add the option of a disclaimer that just warned that outside packages could possibly break the system.
Both Fedora and SUSE are probably the fastest distributions I've ever used, even compared to Gentoo. Mandrake not so much, with slower network performance as well. Maybe the newer 2.6 kernels are faster?
I really think Mandrake and SUSE compare well against eachother, maybe with Mandrake having the edge since it's easier to customize, and not as rigid in setup. The partitioning tool it has during the installation is also more intuitive than SUSE's. I think it's kinda funny that Mandrake has done so well with their latest release considering they're just emerging from bankruptcy, while SUSE now has millions of dollars infused.
I generally prefer distributions like Debian and Gentoo, and only tried out SUSE and Mandrake in order to recommend either to a friend who's new to Linux...and I think it says a lot that both impressed me enough that they've both remained on my system.
64 • sure thing, Sergio (by Benjamin Vander Jagt at 2004-06-02 14:21:17 GMT)
I need to wait for the FTP downloads, but I'll write a review of all the new desktops as soon as I can.
There are already so many reviews of SuSE Linux. A new one was just pointed to this morning on the Distrowatch page. My past reviews have been well received, and I got plenty of happy emails.
I also have a friend in Australia who is part of the Mozilla team, and he's been using SuSE 9.1 for a while. I can see if he's found any bugs.
65 • forum (by eclephtik at 2004-06-02 16:13:23 GMT)
distrowatch.com should have a forum...
66 • forum (by eclephtik at 2004-06-02 16:14:22 GMT)
67 • Re: Benjamin Vander Jagt (by Sergio on 2004-06-02 18:01:24 GMT)
"My past reviews have been well received"
Indeed, they are very thorough. That is why I am looking forward to reading your review of SuSe 9.1. Thanks.
68 • Sergio (by Benjamin Vander Jagt at 2004-06-03 00:07:59 GMT)
I'm flattered! ^_^
69 • Happy Birthday. (by Grunt on 2004-06-03 12:28:14 GMT)
Happy birthday to DW, and kudos to Ladislav for the work done!
70 • RE: Mandrake is the best Desktop distro (by Greg at 2004-06-03 15:12:22 GMT)
>(Oh, I forgot to mention SuSE?... Anybody can give me a link for some free ISO's to download? Well, I thought so. Then I just guess SuSE doesn't exist for me. I care about SuSE as much as SuSE cares about me.)
Whats wrong with the FTP install? Or even, heaven forbid, paying for a boxed version?
Tell you what, give me your address and I'll send you a boxed version of 9.1........NOT!!
Back to the topic, IMO SUSE9.1 is rather nice. I have tried FC1, looked nice, management tools just were nowhere near as good as SUSE. Same for Mandrake although it was still miles better than FC1, but not as good as SUSE.
But like I said it's just my opinion.
71 • for laughs (by Travis M on 2004-06-04 01:19:05 GMT)
check out this great tux cartoon:
72 • Important Package (by HARioV on 2004-06-04 04:26:50 GMT)
you should consider about "wine"
73 • Happy Birthday DistroWatch! (by RC Nelson on 2004-06-04 04:45:47 GMT)
I've been enjoying the commentary and reviews here on DW for a year or two now, and I wanted to wish everyone involved a hearty congratulations and continued success.
74 • Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! (by s3d on 2004-06-04 10:08:20 GMT)
"Kernel 2.2 is still very much in development as we speak - simply because it's still in use and still in demand. Don't burry it just because it's two generations old!"
Advocating the use of "dated" software are we now ladie? Sudden change of heart? Or is Multiple Personality Disorder kicking in at a later age? This is the very same ladislav that just two short weeks ago, on this very forum accused Lycoris of peddling "dated" software, Is it not?
You know Lycoris? The distributor that makes the Desktop/Lx targeted at Windows refugees? Which by the way did have a new release just last November and made the sane, the sensible, the stable choice to retain it`s already familiar desktop which was "two generations old".
So what says ladie? About Ezra`s question from last week that you never got around to. What is the Major Distro list based off of if it isn`t a re-listing of the page hit ranking? Ladies personal Favorites? A mystical scientific equation of some sort?
So, It`s Mepis OS is it? Well, if that`s where you say it is, that`s where the popularity lies. Of course, they can`t be too terribly popular if they are reduced to cheating just to win at some ratty poll. http://www.mepis.org/node/view/2518?PHPSESSID=3528a61569eaa9ddf319f98faa2b5be5
Two sponsors, two top ten distro`s, the ironies are endless, are they not? Three live cd`s in the top ten, all kde-centric, all Knoppix based, just seems a bit fishy to me.
Doesn`t really matter anyhow, Page hit ranking, just a measure of publicity, hype and noise. When what I really need is a ranking of functionability and originality. In three years of Linux usage gone up and down the list, literally have amassed 3 100 disk rolls of iso`s and even some commercial distro`s and I can personally attest to the fact that some of the distro`s down in the 80`s are actually better than some of the top ten. But, haven`t taken much to binary distro`s recently.
BTW, you got it all wrong.
1. I love it when a person comes out with a new, original, innovative idea. Keeps the big guys on their toes. Got nothing against small distro`s. So, sorry if i offended you with my choice of words. I was merely asking about all the hype over these particular distro`s which are after all let`s face it, Klaus Knopper wannabe re-masters a couple from a very long list. Of course, at the end of the day I`m sure you already knew that, but decided to intentionally twist the words around to bolster your own position.
2. I am not a Lycoris user, fan, nor do I have any vested intrest in it. Although, I may have an old build 46 disk lying around. As I said earlier moving away from the old binaries and switched to Gentoo a few months ago and baby, never been happier. Any of you all at the crossroads, already know what you want, trying to figure out what to try next? Your not gonna get what you want out of a pre-built. The only way to get what you want is to roll your own. Take it from someone that has been there, tried it, done that.
And this is not an endorsement for gentoo, can be any source or minimalist distro. I just prefer gentoo, because of the great documentation and community around it. For those of you that would argue "I don`t have the time", your gonna spend the time anyways so why not spend it getting what you want in the first place. Here`s an example, recently installed Mandark 9.2, spent the next week, trying to clean out all the unwanted extra`s. Uninstall a few apps, broken dependencies, broken system, re-install, try again same old, same old. Finally after a week had thing kind of how I wanted. For those of you Deb fans that would pipe up, yep did try Mepis, which is a deb based system. Install, apt-get upgrade, all said and done, same ol` broken dependencies, same`ol broken system, same ol`, same`ol.
With gentoo even with having to compile everything from source, printed the installation handbook, followed it step by step, on my first go around had an up and running stage 1 install with kde-desktop and all the apps I wanted in 3 days, where as I said I have spent a week or more with pre-builts. Like I said, your never gonna find what you want unless you do it yourself.
BTW, Ladie don`t take anything i say personally, just a troll for humors sake. anyways, great work on keeping up to date with all the distro`s and doing your best to curb the cheating on the DHPR.
75 • SuSE iso hell (by Dull Thud on 2004-06-04 16:04:31 GMT)
Now SuSE gives us 2 isos, one for a live CD that's essentially a demo, and other for FTP install, which requires a broadband connection or a lot of patience and luck on dialup. Is it just me, or does this seem a little absurd? Why not a single CD that will boot, demo, install a minimal working OS, and use net access (or an optional second iso) for additional features?
This is the model that Mepis works with, and I love it. SuSE seems to be going way out of their way to avoid giving us useful isos. Remeber, guys, a one-use CD is pollution! You ARE "green", aren't you?
76 • re: SUSE (by s3d on 2004-06-04 23:53:05 GMT)
Suse is a company trying to make money, Mepis is a community project. Completely different buisness models. Who in there right mind would buy a commercial cd if they could just easily download everything off the net. I'm glad some distro's at least let you try their product before you commit to buying. Most commercial distro's don't even do that.
77 • RE: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! (by ladislav at 2004-06-05 05:13:52 GMT)
Two sponsors, two top ten distro's, the ironies are endless, are they not?
FYI, Lycoris does sponsor DistroWatch as well. But the place in the "top 10" list can't be bought with money - it has to be gained through product quality, user satisfaction, and other characteristics. I don't expect everybody to agree with the list, but I believe that the majority of readers who have been trying out many distributions will probably find it quite reasonable.
78 • "Take it from someone that has been there, tried it, done that." (by Benjamin Vander Jagt at 2004-06-05 06:07:37 GMT)
I do about 5 Linux installs per day right now, and if I were to do that with source-based distro's, it would be a total waste of time.
The precompiled, preconfigured binaries save an enormous amount of time. The fact is that most systems are just about the same. Even systems that are very different from eachother still run just about the same on the same precompiled binaries. If the software were written from scratch for a particular piece of hardware, then the story would be different.
It takes me about 15 minutes to do a SuSE Linux 9.0 installation. (Then I leave it to install for about another hour or two.) After that, I let the configuration tools do almost everything for me, and I still get the same chance to configure things how I want if I don't like how YaST figures stuff. Many of my customers are "power users", and even they have no problems with the way SuSE is set up. They don't need to get into the system to configure.
Most Linux skills obsolete themselves. That's the way the Linux development community works; making configuration easier and easier.
And yes, I have used Gentoo. I've also used Sorcerer and built a Linux from scratch (without using LFS). Using every tweak at my disposal and trying for weeks, I still couldn't make the source-based distros beat out Red Hat 8.0 in execution speed. Yes, they're slow. The vast majority of time-consuming gruntwork in building a Linux system is going to be the same no matter what system you're building on, so why do a source-based distribution? At least do a vanilla distribution like Slackware-current and configure that in any way that it needs to be configured.
"Why not a single CD that will boot, demo, install a minimal working OS, and use net access (or an optional second iso) for additional features?"
They give rescue mode if you need a bare kernel to boot and do some system maintenance, and the installer can set up a pretty small system. If you want a distro trimmed down to fit on one CD, then choose one of the distro's made for that. It's like asking Vector why they don't make a version for the Small Office / Home Office....which then they started to make, and it's a major undertaking, and most who want a SOHO distro pick something else anyway.
As for a one-use CD being pollution, I don't see how you can point any finger at SuSE. I have installed SuSE 9.0 around 100 times, and I've only needed to burn one CD. Why? Because SuSE gives you the installation media as a simple directory tree. I have a copy saved on my web servers, and I just jack user's system into the network and install over HTTP, FTP, or Samba. If I don't want to do that, I make a 5GB partition on the user's hard drive and install from that. Then, I can put any other useful starters in there as well, like nVidia drivers. If the client doesn't want a copy of the SuSE installation media on his hard drive, I just piggyback a spare 6.4GB hard drive that has the SuSE installation media on it.
Incidentally, I have around 50 Red Hat CD's, 20 Mandrunk CD's, and 2 SuSE Linux 9.0 CD's and 1 SuSE Linux 9.1 CD. I don't even need to leave the CD in the drive after I start installing! I can start using that same CD to start installing on another system.
I haven't been a SuSE fan for very long at all. I used to be a big Red Hat fan, and I was always interested in Mandrake. I don't hold prejudices for or against distributions. I hold them primarily to their principles and secondarily to their quality. I don't like the newest offering from Fedora, because it's buggy. I have nothing against it coming from a big company.
But talking with some people lately, there's this heavy sentiment that big company Linux is inherently bad and community Linux is inherently good. I say the ethics are all that matters. Didn't Novell/SuSE just turn YaSTPL over to GPL? Why did they do that? Because they know that *good* business is good *business*.
Linux is not the key. Linux is not the secret of the success of all this wonderful software. The license is. FreeDOS, for crying out loud, is many many times better than MS-DOS. It's just a DOS!! But it's good. The secret? The license.
79 • *takes a deep breath* (by Benjamin Vander Jagt at 2004-06-05 06:14:44 GMT)
I get a little upset when people falsely accuse other people, especially such a generous group such as SuSE. They give out their OS. That's a plain and simple fact. They sell service. Their company is structured in such an honest way! So they don't give ISO's like you see from other companies. Well neither does Slackware until release time, but Slackware isn't critiized. I think that's 'cause Slackware is a community where SuSE is targetted simply for being a company.
SuSE gives out their OS and even has extensive online support for it! They offer many download mirrors, and SuSE employees frequently give community-wide help, even though they don't need to. They care about us! They're generous! If I were in their shoes, my feelings would be sorely hurt by this statement:
"Oh, I forgot to mention SuSE?... Anybody can give me a link for some free ISO's to download? Well, I thought so. Then I just guess SuSE doesn't exist for me. I care about SuSE as much as SuSE cares about me."
I hope I didn't offend anyone.
80 • No subject (by s3d on 2004-06-05 08:06:06 GMT)
Yes Gentoo is not for noobs without prior Linux experience. If your willing to trade down speed for ease of use, your probably better suited with a binary distro.
Source based are for those that have already been around the block and "know" what they want and it isn`t alot of bloat and a week of cleaning out everything you don`t need. Yes I use Gentoo and I can tell you it`s faster. Yes I`ve used (used meaning they`ve been on my system a minimum of two weeks, less than that I just call it trying out) Mandrake, Redhat, Fedora, Debian, Slackware, Caldera, Libranet, Ark, Vine, Knoppix, PCLOS, Mepis, Lycoris, College, Arch, PLD, Berry, Alt, Suse, Conectiva, DSL, Vector, Yoper, Turbolinux, Icepack, Asp, Bayanian, Elx, LinuxInstall, Impi, Lorma, forget any.
But since you brought up "lost focus" the other week. You know, maybe it`s just me, but it seems like a lot of the new RPM and Deb based distros seems to have lost focus. Since the explosion of new distros over the last year and a half. No ones innovating. Just do the package shuffle and call her a new distro, sometimes they make their own half baked installer, sometimes they don`t even do that and just take the one clean off Redhat or Mandrake and change the labels. I remember a few years back when the list was less than half of what it is now and changing distro`s actually meant you were in for something new. Now distro-hopping has taken on a whole new meaning, changing the label on the bootscreen. At least it just seems that way.
81 • XFree86 4.4 (by georgina economou at 2004-06-05 13:39:03 GMT)
Our license is not GPL incompatible, please get the FACTS straight.
82 • fedora core 2 (by ben britton at 2004-06-05 14:10:53 GMT)
REDHAT FEDORA CORE 2
I installed this on my machine it took 3 or 4 times
to get it installed the first problem was the mouse
it would not install the ps2 mouse so i got a usb mouse . that took care of that problem next problem
sound card it detected it fine but the problem i am having is it won't play a simple cd. it comes up and runs but no sound i have system sound but no cd playing for me. the next problem is it does not want to see my card reader. i can't even get it to look at it
as for my digital camera let's not even go there .red hat fedora core 2 has a long way to go.i geuss i will reinstall SuSE 9.0 which i had no problems with. or maybe i'll install SuSE 9.1.
83 • Gentoo (by Benjamin Vander Jagt at 2004-06-06 07:23:05 GMT)
yes yes, I'm impressed with how many distributions you've used. needless to say, I've used many, too. Gentoo is not faster, it's simply less bloated, but for less bloated, I was extremely happy building a Linux from scratch and just forcibly shoving Slackware packages in. it took me literally hours, and everything was already set up, configured, and even optimized.
this is, however, where I split off from the majority of distributions. a Linux distribution should be vanilla. take the packages and build them as the developers made them to be built. then configure stuff to tailor for one audience or another, make in-house packages and an in-house installer, thoroughly test, and then provide service (for fee or for free). sure, they have every right to modify stuff, moving packages here and there, but it ends up making a big mess of things, and it doesn't do anybody any good. when it's unmodified, things just seem to work much better.
this is one way that source-based distributions shine. however, binary distributions can do well here, too.
and for Georgina, please let me quote directly from the Gnu's mouth:
The XFree86 1.1 license.
This is a simple, permissive non-copyleft free software license, incompatible with the GNU GPL because of its requirements that apply to all documentation in the distribution that contain acknowledgements.
There are currently several variants of XFree86, and only some of them use this license. Some continue to use the X11 license.
this is taken from the FAQ of the XFree86 1.1 license:
So the new license, unlike the old one, explicitly requires that the copyright holders and its contributors, are to be acknowledged in the end user documentation that accompanies redistribution, i.e. the binary only redistributions.
deviating a little bit from ideals, are we? are we sure that's wise?
84 • The Big Trio compared - Why shall I drake my free linux box ? (by G.B. at 2004-06-07 09:08:33 GMT)
Hi, I am happy for you that Mandrake runs fast on your computer. Does this make this distro the Very Best ? What about support if you are not a member ? What about huge space used on hard disk ? What about freedom on how to do that, and that, or that the way you would like to do it ? Ok, compared to Fedora the Mandrake works fine, but for me it still a desktop end-user distrib as if you try to know more about what's going on you'll just get frustrated by available documentations and a very microsoft-and-co-likesupport. Why shall I drake my free linux box ?
85 • No subject (by s3d on 2004-06-07 08:58:57 GMT)
Where are you seeing this in the XFree86 1.1 license FAQ????
All I see is,
"These modifications though have caused a lot of raucous comments, a lot of which is unfounded, but neverthless, for which the XFree86 Project is decidely unhappy with, so it is the lone purpose of this FAQ to dispel any and all uncertainity surrounding the license revision. "
"What about GPL-compatibility? Is XFree86 GPL compatible?
The XFree86 Project maintains that the 4.4.0 release of XFree86 is as GPL compatible as any and all previous versions were. "
I have also read the GPL License through twice and "nowhere", does it state that a program author "Is not permitted to ask credit for work performed".
However, it does state quite clearly in the GPL`s FAQ.
"I want to get credit for my work. I want people to know what I wrote. Can I still get credit if I use the GPL?
You can certainly get credit for the work. Part of releasing a program under the GPL is writing a copyright notice in your own name (assuming you are the copyright holder). The GPL requires all copies to carry an appropriate copyright notice."
86 • Almost everything is wrong here. (by Benjamin Vander Jagt at 2004-06-07 14:29:18 GMT)
First, to answer your question, you have the URL right. Just do a text search. It's the third paragraph under, "What is main the difference between 1.0 and 1.1?"
Second, the XFree86 project says that, but they're mistaken. XFree86 license 1.1 is not GPL compatible.
Yes, of course you can get credit for the work. How the XFree86 license 1.1 differs from the GPL is that the GPL places no requirements on credits. It has to carry a copyright notice, yes, but that is different from requiring that documentation have certain names listed. So, why did the XFree86 team decide that the documentation needed to be restricted when GPL requires copyrights?
The XFree86 project does not seem to understand GPL.
(Incidentally, I don't entirely agree with GPL. They require that source code must be made available in the same way as compiled binaries. While I see that this greatly helps to prove that binaries are not built on illegal code, and while this helps others to build on the software more effectively, it's still an unjust restriction. Copyleft, however, which would require that no software derived from copyleft software may strip copyleft away, doesn't take away any rights that anybody should rightfully have.)
87 • SuSE isos (by Dull Thud on 2004-06-07 14:58:23 GMT)
Don't get me wrong, I think the way SuSE does things is very very cool. I love these guys! The product is definitately worth buying, and the fact you can get it for free is a miracle of both engineering and business, for which thousands deserve credit. I just wish that, having changed their FTP installation from a floppy image to an iso, they'd go ahead and roll it in with the live CD. A very minor point.
Good job, SuSE!
Happy birthday, DW!
88 • You've gotta be kidding me! XO (by Benjamin Vander Jagt at 2004-06-08 02:52:06 GMT)
I know nobody reads this anymore, but I had to write my notes down, and I figured I might as well write them here, since they're relevant. (Ladislav, do you still read these old ones?)
Mandrake Linux 10.0, burned, tested, passed. (I'll test it again later.)
Gateway Solo 9300VE: "Error uncompressing stage 2" (or something like that.) "May be hardware error or Kernel 2.6.3 bug."
K6-2-300 on Jetway J542b: does not boot from CD. it tries for a while, then fails
Sony Vaio P3 - 450MHz: "I/O Error on file...something. Abnormal install." (sorry, I can't remember the name.)
Duron 800 on Jetway J867V266b: "I/O Error on file...something else..." (I can't remember the name, but I know it's something other than the Vaio.)
here's the kicker. these errors are consistent! the only thing I can do to change the errors is this. on the Gateway, if I have a Belkin USB network dongle plugged in, then it errors out fast. if I unplug it, it errors out slowly. what the heck?!
89 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-06-08 05:12:38 GMT)
Yes Mandrake 10!
I am using Mndrake since version 9 and really I pleased to find that the version 10 is the faster than the others. Really it is.
90 • mandrake 10 official (by manou on 2004-06-11 02:45:26 GMT)
As an old user of Mandrake since 8.0 version, I was very glad to try the 10.0 Official. Indeed I was really disapointed about the 9.x versions, so I tried many others distros, looking for a good one to replace mandrake on my desktop. The only one I really liked, and which worked as I wanted was the Slackware. None of the others have totally satisfied me, and fedora for me was the worst.
The 10.0 reminds me the excellent 8.2, it seems that mandrake is back to good stuff. It is definitly the most complete distro for desktop use.
I have installed it one more than 10 different computers (yes I'm a linux evangelist ;-) and still no problems.
Good work Mandrake!
91 • can't accept that (by Benjamin Vander Jagt at 2004-06-11 17:11:53 GMT)
"It is definitly the most complete distro for desktop use." - I'm sorry, but I really don't see any way this could be. have you compared it to SuSE 9.1? (I don't mean the default install of Mandrake versus the default install of SuSE. Even in that case, SuSE gives you more.)
Sorry to take so long to write the review. I'm really having a *very* hard time getting Mandrake and Fedora to install. Mandrake keeps hardlocking and crashing too soon for me to do updates, and Fedora updates just sit there for a long time. I don't know if Fedora's locked up or what.
Considering now that it might be impossible for me to install Fedora on some systems and that Mandrake is crashing so badly, I might have to cancel the review altogether. Has the shift to kernel 2.6 really been so hard on developers?
(I can already make a big contrast here. SuSE 9.1 not only picks up updates like it should, it also installs the nVidia driver and offers to install several other great updates.)
I'll let everyone know once I have a review done.
92 • best distro is the one that doesn't crash as much and installs easy for you (by Anonymous on 2004-06-12 02:40:19 GMT)
Always love these reviews and follow up remarks.
All 3 are great distros as are debian, knoppix, mepis, ... and pclinuxos
None of them has no problems. Depending on your experience and your hardware and especially your way of doing things one of those many hundreds of distros will be the one that fits you best, just like a glove or a hat.
I've had very good luck with Mandrake, PCLinuxOS, Debian, Suse 9.0 and knoppix 3.3 and tried many others. Most problems I had lately was with Suse 9.1 and Knoppix 3.4 but again, that is purely related probably to my hardware configurations that I tend to use, even though I try to get at least a few different systems together to see if the problems are persistent.
Also I am still going back and forth with kernel 2.4 and 2.6. Love certain things about the 2.6 but then I am still missing some drivers for some of my weirder devices which work well under 2.4.
If you don't have too many peripherals then 2.6 is the way to go. Definitely have both installed for when you need them. As of this week I am now mostly in 2.6 as I got some of my most used peripherals finally working under 2.6
So celebrate Linux. Be it Suse, Fedora, Mepis, PCLinuxOS, Mandrake, Knoppix or whichever. Just as with cars we each have different likings. Otherwise we would all drive the same car and same model (ouch).
It's always exciting to testdrive a new model (new distro) and see if it fits myself or not.
One thing I look forward to is to get more 'official' drivers for old and new hardware as I definitely see it as the achilles heel right now (even more than software installation)
From my test drives I can honestly say that of the 3 the distro that had most problems with my various hardware configuration was Suse 9.1, most crashes/freezes and locks was with FC2 and the least troublesome to install and have working day by day is Mandrake 10 official (although PCLinuxOS is getting better and better by the hour). Again, this is not to say that you will have the same experience and that is ok. I love the competition between the 'big' 3 and all the other great players (just as competition between AMD and Intel is a great benefit for us). It keeps things moving and they are getting better and a lot of us have been able to replace their win desktops completely by now.
Have your main pc setup with your favorite distro and have either another partition or even computer available to try out new distros and don't just dismiss them because they don't have this or that feature or this eye candy or not. Maybe that specific new distro won't be a fit for you but it might be the better choice for your friend, neighbor or customer and don't be afraid to recommend another distro than your to someone else.
Ok, I think I rambled enough ;-) but it felt good. More power to the Tux ...
93 • No subject (by mcg at 2004-06-13 23:31:16 GMT)
Happy Birthday Distrowatch!I visit Distrowatch almost everyday,I get information abot new releases and distros as well packages.GREAT site!
Thank You Distrowatch and LONG LIVE!
94 • HAPPY BIRTHDAY DISTROWATCH! (by mcg at 2004-06-13 23:31:43 GMT)
Happy Birthday Distrowatch!I visit Distrowatch almost everyday,I get information abot new releases and distros as well packages.GREAT site!
Thank You Distrowatch and LONG LIVE!
95 • Mdk 10 uber alles! (by Andy The Maf at 2004-06-14 07:12:35 GMT)
I read the 1st issue of this newsletter: it's true, i had Mdk 10 and SuSE 9.1 on my desktop, and after a few days I couldn't keep SuSE, for many reasons: there was no support for my scanner, boot was rich of "failed" initializations, I found conexant HSF drivers, but not HCF drivers ("why me and not my brother?" my HCF modem asked) and many custom packages failed to install for some library problem. None of this problems with Mandrake: 30 minutes for an almost complete install (1 hour and a half for SuSE), all my hardware correctly detected and configurated and no problem with custom packages. Kernel 2.6.3 still has some problem with framebuffering mode, but I could add kernel 2.4.25, which was almost as fast as 2.6.3 in nofb mode! I could say many other things, expecially to non-experienced linux users (as after all I am), but I prefer to say: TRY IT!!!
96 • Mandrake Linux (by Ralphe Neill at 2004-06-16 22:56:47 GMT)
I'm running Mandrake Linux on a 3.2 GHz P4 (with no MS Windows components). I tried RedHat and SuSE when I first got the box but was less than satisfied. Mdk 9.2 installed out of the box and I've never looked back! I installed Mdk 10.0 (with the 2.6 SMP kernel) two weeks ago and, once again, it installed with zero problems. The few glitches I noted have already been fixed by updates. And, yes, it IS fast and is nowhere near the memory-hog that 9.2 was. There is no doubt in my mind that Mandrake is the premier distribution.
97 • The big trio compared (by Eric at 2004-06-18 18:01:58 GMT)
When I tried to install Mandrake 10 (community OR official, i've tried both) on a twin CPU PIII 700 server with 6 SCSI hard drives and a SCSI cdrom drive, the install program would crash on loading the aic7xxx.ko module, which is necessary for the cdrom drive and therefore i couldn't install. I finally installed over HTTP and it works fine now .
I didn't have that problem with fedora core 2. But my client wanted Mandrake so I had to manage.
I'm not really a GUI person but I have to say the Mandrake Control Center is quite impressive, especially the RPM management windows, rpmdrake
98 • The big trio compared (by Webwolf at 2004-06-21 18:34:35 GMT)
Here is my opinion. Red Hat seems to take be saying to me that Fedora is an experiment for us to try so they can add the good stuff into Red Hat Enterprise. Now, granted, distros will add things in that are experimental or new and untested, I don't have a problem with that. But Red Hat seems to be saying to me that they are more interested in the Money part and that our computers are equivalent to lab rats. But that is my opinion. I switched completely over to Linux a couple of months ago and I still have the Microsoft bull bouncing around in my head.
SuSe. Well, 3,4 or 5 years ago(been awhile I can't remember the exact date) I talked with a person at SuSe, on the phone, for over an hour. We talked about Linux, Microsoft, Bill Gates, etc. I signed up for a mailing list to keep updated on what SuSe was up to. A few weeks later I was surprised to recieved a complete Professional Package, complete with books, cd's and a DVD for free in my mail box. Then something happened to SuSe. That attitude seems to have vanished alomst over night. They seemed to have gotten more commercial, for a linux distro(and yes I know there are others out there worse then SuSe.) Like it was mentioned above, I will care about SuSe as much as they care about me. Now Ftp installs are great for those with Broadband connections. I don't recommend it for someone with dial up.
Mandrake........... They are the best to install for newbies, and have a lot of packages on their free download. I have installed Mandrake 10.0 Official and I have had no problem with it, other then user mistakes, lol. They have free to paid products and services. This is great for those with limited income or those who want to try something before they buy it. Mandrake seems to stay in the spirit of open source community while at the same time they are trying to make money(AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.) I think this is great. I have a limited income myself but I am more then willing to support Mandrake by buying the commercial version and maybe even joing their club. They care about me and people in general, therefore I care about them. I have Mandrake installed on my girlfriends computer(Her old computer will have XP for games, nothing more,) I will be installing it on my mothers computer and even my father is interested in Linux. All of them are XP users but are fed up with XP or are curious about Linux. Mandrake is a ten, two thumbs up, five stars...... uhm, Lets just say I like it, ;) , lol.
Also I would like to add that the best small distro I have used is DSL(Damn Small Linux.) It is a live CD or you can do a hard drive install.
99 • Correction (by Webwolf at 2004-06-21 18:56:24 GMT)
I just read, after I posted this, lol, that SuSe has finally caught up with things and has released 9.1 as an ISO. Hmmmm, maybe they are getting back to there roots. I will give it a try, though I am still a die hard Mandrake user.
100 • Re: Correction (by Greg at 2004-06-22 10:29:20 GMT)
What is it with people? What's the hang up with not providing ISO's? I cannot for the life of me see why people think they should have to provide them.
SUSE support many projects, and while they may have gotten more commercial, you said it yourself, they are trying to make money. I think it's wrong to say they dont care about the community, because they dont provide ISO's?????
Mandrake also have gotten more commercial, look where giving everything away nearly got them?
IMO SUSE is the best, or should I say I like SUSE the best of the distros I've tried, and I have tried a few different ones and different versions. SUSE is the one I always come back to, because it's the one I like the most and I find it to be consistently good.
*JUST MY OPINION* no offence.
101 • The big trio compared (by Rob Cole at 2004-06-25 09:27:00 GMT)
I am a newbie to Linux, but leading the exodus from Windoze. I am a serious user and needed a distro that would be easy to install and relatively maintenance free. I need to spend my time working "with" my computer, not "on" it.
My first install was Suse 9.1 Pro, which I selected mainly for the wealth of apps, including Rekall, a graphical front end for the MySql and PostreSQL databases. Install went fine and the distro has some fine qualities in terms of usabiltiy and appearance, but the bottom line is; I could never get Samba to work. Don't know why, tried everything.
So, I reformatted and installed Mandrake 10 Community. Took a little more doing to get setup with Mandrake than with SuSE mainly because the 3 CD download edition doesn't include as much software. But I was able to download and install everything I needed without incident. The only problem I had was the fact my box had two network cards and while Mandrake detected them, I had to twiddle and tweak a bit to get both interfaces going. Other than that though, Samba worked straight out of the box and I am very happy with Mandrake 10. Incidentally, my only criticism of SuSE usability is that YAST was very slow to load on my PC and the Mandrake control panel is much faster and in my mind just as functional and versatle as YAST.
102 • The big trio and the rest... (by Gen on 2004-07-01 16:12:07 GMT)
While I agree entirely about Mandrake being a very good distribution, I think that you all have good points. MDK is the first distro I've used on a regular basis (from release 8.2 to now) so that's where I feel at home the most. Besides, due to some (unfortunate) circumstances, I'm stuck using one of those out of a box everything-is-on-board and good luck to find exactly what you have in there machines (still haven't found my exact sound chip after months!) and well, MDK works good with those, no problems with the installation and virtually none after that. My brother on the other hand, tried it about at the same time I did and he has a more personnalized machine and he had a few problems. So I'd say that MDK is making a good work towards its main goal, to make Linux easier to beginners but somehow, when you get better you need something more and everyone has specific needs so that's why there are so many different distributions. ;)
103 • Kudos to the Linux community & DistroWatch (by Charles on 2004-07-07 00:15:28 GMT)
I don't what the hold up was, but I've finally managed to kick my Windows addiction. After using that platform for many years (since 3.1 to be exact), I now realize that the grass is much greener on the Linux side of the fence. After testing several distrubtions, I've settled on Mandrakelinux 10 and I can gurantee that this PC will never see another Microsoft product again, software or hardware. For years the Big M has dominated the PC market, and if Linux continues to improve and impress like its current incarnations, Mr. Gates will be in serious trouble. :)
104 • Happy Birthday! (by migulic on 2004-11-01 19:17:34 GMT)
I didn't know DistroWatch was already three years old!
Anyway, thanks for the great site. Happy Birthday!
Number of Comments: 104
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