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1 • BSD (by Teh AntiMicrosoft at 2004-05-03 13:03:09 GMT) |
pfft Unix is as good as dead, SCO made sure of that
2 • BSD distributions (by Penguin on 2004-05-03 13:58:27 GMT)
This site is called DistroWatch so calling the various BSD distributions BSD distributions seems like the obvious and best choice. There are huge technical differences between various Linux distributions too, so some technical differencies between BSD and Linux distros is not a valid argument. (For example, Debian can use various other kernels too (including BSD kernels) besides of Linux kernels.)
You can always explain the differencies between BSD and Linux in more detail on individual distro pages and so on.
Unless - and that's another option, you would want to clearly separate the BSD distributions from the rest of the Linux-centered content, maybe to their own BSD sub page or something like that - but I don't support that.
3 • Distrowatch highjacked (by GP at 2004-05-03 13:59:33 GMT)
First get the attention of all people interested in Linux, than divert it to the BSDs, this great OS Bill Gates luvs so much, pretending it's pretty much the same spirit, just freer.
4 • Great Job of Teaching us old guys (by Bill Savoie at 2004-05-03 14:37:35 GMT)
I am an old engineer (58) who learned how to bias tubes in College. To stay working in a fast moving world like we now live in, one must constantly be learning new things. Some of the 'new' things are really old things, but I missed learning them when they were really new. I really enjoy this website. I have diversified because of this website. I have feather running on an old laptop that will soon be sent to my 80 year old Mom. I look forward to learning about BSD systems. Thanks for making learning fun! I may never retire.
5 • Donation (by Alan Baghumian at 2004-05-03 15:12:10 GMT)
First, I want to thank you for your support to FLOSS.
I suggest these two projects for your next donations:
6 • The BSD flavours (by bystander on 2004-05-03 16:11:41 GMT)
For every BSD flavour (FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, etc.) 'project' is the general term that signifies the same thing that 'distro' stands for in Linux world. Then there are special 'releases' that are like chronolonical snapshots prepared from the development branch of the project (for example, FreeBSD release 5.2.1). Then there are the 'operating system' (that doesn't include third party applications) and the 'package collection' (that includes only the third party applications and package management tools).
Now what is so difficult to understand in this simple scheme? Just call them 'BSD flavours'.
7 • GP vs Bill Savoie (by DiegoG at 2004-05-03 17:01:52 GMT)
I don't agree with GP's zealotry, I think knowledge can only benefit you. Besides, the only OS Bill Gates loves is Windows.
I'd like to have Bill Savoie's spirit when I'm a few years older.
As I posted last week, I support "BSD distributions" as the logic label choice, being "DistroWatch" the site's name.
8 • Projects vs Flavors/Flavour (by Anon on 2004-05-03 17:10:20 GMT)
Not sure if I like calling them flavours, I am some what parital to "Projects".
9 • Firewall and more (by Anon on 2004-05-03 17:23:50 GMT)
Some tools that might be of interest:
They are all in the ports collection.
FYI: portsman located in sysutils. (search utility and more).
10 • financial support for aspell (by rahul on 2004-05-03 17:49:01 GMT)
Please consider this project for the following months
11 • BSD distribution release (by EmDee on 2004-05-03 18:42:41 GMT)
well, I'd say BS(D) distribution release as the abbreviation "BSD" already contains the word "Distribution". I mean this is almost as bad as "LCD display" or "SMS message" ;-)
BTW, the letter "L" in that Slo-Tech Linux screenshot kinda looks like a "C", anybody else noticed?
12 • Livux 1.2 is out there (by Teobromina on 2004-05-03 19:09:24 GMT)
Livux has released the version 1.2b1 for testing.
Amongh its features you can find the possibility to merely copy their 'Livux' directory to C: or to the root of any other partition, and then use the CD as the key or booting element. Linux starts from the hd releasing the CDreader.
This is one of the best Knoppix derived distros I have ever seen, and it is in Spanish (castellano).
Congratulations to David for his good job!
13 • BSD terminology (by Ed at 2004-05-03 19:35:33 GMT)
How about BSD based Operating System projects releases
14 • BSD Kernel and Operating System (by lingmuhebo0 on 2004-05-03 19:50:12 GMT)
'Chapter 9 Configuring the FreeBSD Kernel'
'The kernel is the core of the FreeBSD operating system.'
I think the above two quotes from this page show that BSD is not merely the kernel itself, like Linux is, but also the entire operating system. Other web sites stating the same concept are:
'Not just a kernel; a coherent base system including kernel and userland software'
'Each BSD distribution is considered a single project. Linux distributions on the other hand are combined from a multitude of separate projects, many of which aren't even Linux-specific ... On BSD, the developers are also the integrators ... In the Linux world, the system integrators who combine many different projects into a distribution are generally not developers of those projects.'
'The concept of the "base system" is something that, I think, causes the most trouble for people used to the Linux methodology ... Linux, from the start, was just a kernel ... Linux has never had any sort of separation between what is the "base system" and what is "addon utilities". The entire system is "addon utilities" ... By contrast, BSD has always had a centralized development model. There's always been an entity that's "in charge" of the system. BSD doesn't use GNU ls or GNU libc, it uses BSD's ls and BSD's libc ... They've never been developed or packaged independently.'
I think all of the above quotes clearly show a difference in philosophy which causes calling BSD a 'distro' technically wrong.
However, having said that, I do not necessarily think that calling the BSD OSes 'distros' in this site is a bad idea. However, should you settle with 'distro', could we not have 'distribution' in quotes, and possibly a link to another page describing BSD terminology, e.g. like this:
This way, Linux users can relate to BSD using Linux terminology, and BSD users can rest assured that BSD is not being misrepresented.
15 • BSD phraseology (by Ezra at 2004-05-03 21:45:37 GMT)
Since the 'big three' (FreeBSD, NetBSD, & OpenBSD) all refer to their "releases", isn't this the best term to use? The term 'distro' brings up images of Linux rather than BSD in my mind. Perhaps many other people feel the same way.
In the grand scheme of things, either term makes sense since your site is "www.distrowatch.com."
Either way, I applaud your move to include BSD flavors as they represent an important contribution to the world of free software and BSD code is an integral part of the internet. Thanks again.
16 • How about... (by Just Dave on 2004-05-03 21:52:15 GMT)
BSD based distribution?
EmDee, I wouldn't suggest anything that could be read as "BS distribution"...
17 • FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD = "The BSDs" (by Rich at 2004-05-03 22:11:32 GMT)
Not really an original thought on my part -- I've seen them referred to as "The BSDs" on other sites. Just my $.02, and thanks for including them on your site...
18 • Smaller BSDs (by Penguin on 2004-05-03 23:03:34 GMT)
I suppose you could call OpenBSD, NetBSD and FreeBSD different operating systems - though they do have more in common than differ from each other. But what about EkkoBSD, MirBSD, Dragonfly BSD and various live CD BSD projects? Those distros are mostly just based on some of the three main BSD flavors, usually the basic system is directly borrowed from FreeBSD. The word distribution seems to me quite appropriate in most of those cases.
19 • Don't call the BSD's "BS Distribution" (by Anonymous on 2004-05-03 23:11:09 GMT)
I don't think that the BSD's should be put under that name. The "BS" may imply something else, often used on forums and newsgroups.
20 • No subject (by Stan on 2004-05-03 23:16:07 GMT)
I'm glad that somone else likes Austrumi!
I think its a great little live distro. Another usefull little trick it has is that it loads entirely to RAM and then ejects the CD. THis means I can use it to watch VCD's on any PC even when the PC doesnt have the right codex installed. Austrumi has MMplayer with latest DivX codex so its very usefull.
I used to always carry DamnSmallLinux in my wallet on a 50mb disk now i carry Austrumi.
MMplayer, abiword, gnumeric and Gimp all under 50mb with a 2.6.4 kernel? Not bad at all.
Also of note for me is the new version of LUIT LINUX.
THis is also under 50mb and this one has Xfce4 and Abiword etc. Very cool. It hasnt been anounced on distrowatch yet so hopefully people will now notice it and give it a go.
anyone know any other sub 50mb distros with this many features?
21 • Knoppix 3.4 (by Anonymous on 2004-05-04 03:40:55 GMT)
from Slashdot ... torrent urls:
22 • BSD release (by Feargal Reilly at 2004-05-04 09:54:29 GMT)
Whatever you do, please don't say BSD distribution. It's completely redundant, and should be avoided purely for grammatical reasons.
'Project' is probably the best term to use. 'Release' doesn't work as it only applies to actual releases, and too many people have different understandings of the term 'OS'.
23 • BSD Projects (by Ariszlo at 2004-05-04 11:15:18 GMT)
I don't think redundancy is wrong so I would vote for Distributions.
Just my two cent.
(Cents would be redundant after two, which already expresses plurality.)
24 • BSD - GNU/Linux Discrimination (by Smett on 2004-05-04 12:07:00 GMT)
When I suggested the ~ thing i didn't mean to discriminate between the two of them or to say BSD's wouldn't belong here.
I guess it's kinda cumbersome to check for each distro at its own page. Then maybe you could use different formatting like different colors (dark blue / dark green).
Maybe the best idea would be to add "(BSD)" or "BSD" also whenever it is not a part of the name itself. What do you think about this?
As for BSD Distro "redundancy issue" it's ridiculously easy to solve the "problem". "BSD" doesn't mean "a distribution from Berkeley" anymore. It really means "the BSD operating system". So it's not improper to say "BSD Distro", since "BSD" is already a label which has a meaning in itself. Don't confuse the whole with it's parts :)
Yes, just think of it this way: BSD is already an INDIVISIBLE label. So don't play with it and with it's meaning: just use it, "inflect" and "agglutinate" it: there's no redundancy in freely speaking English. Let's not be pleonasm hunters, like the guys that say: "don't say 'go home' -- it's redundant" :))
Also, don't forget about DISTROwatch. I think it's the DISTROwatch meaning that is more important than the tragical calamity of... redundancy. Keep on the great work, Ladislau.
By the way, what is "WTO"? Right, it still is an "Organization", although it... already contains the "O[rganization]" in its name. There's no redundancy in the world which could make it not be a [grammatically] "valid" organization :)) What about www.wto.org ? Isn't it a "redundant" address? ;)
And here's my wish: let's now _watch_ the BSD _Distros_ arriving one by one at _DISTROwatch_.org! Quite a redundancy, huh?
BSD's _ARE_ DISTROS, no matter what else they may call them.
25 • BSD 'Distribution' -- Against (by lingmuhebo0 on 2004-05-04 15:48:22 GMT)
I am starting to inch more and more against calling the BSD projects 'distributions'.
BSD and Linux both are based on UNIX, but are developed under a different philosophy. Due to this, both use different terms because it reflects upon each of its own philosophy. Mixing these terms up may work now, but somewhere down the road, it surely will cause unneeded confusion.
I think 'DistroWatch', as a major Linux web site, has a major responsibility in releasing accurate information and reducing confusion. Using 'distribution' for the BSDs because of aesthetic purposes, or for convenience, does not seem like something a responsible web site should be doing.
Today as we see more and more people using computers, we find many who freely use incorrect terms to describe different things. For example, 'Internet' for the web, and 'home page' for web page. To make matters even worse, mass media often fails to correct such mistakes and even goes ahead using the incorrect terms. I do not wish to see DistroWatch doing the same thing.
26 • DON'T use "projects," please... (by torque2k on 2004-05-04 15:56:15 GMT)
Whatever you choose to use, please don't use the term "BSD Projects"... this brings to mind the many application projects available for ANY OS. (Mozilla project, OpenOffice.org project, The GIMP project, etc.)
I think it would make the BSD 'whatever' sound like a small gathering of apps instead of an all-encompassing OS.
Maybe "BSD System" or "BSD Release"? I'm not against "BSD Distribution", but I'm sure if you decided to start calling Linux distros "Linux Releases", there would be many a ruffled feather. The BSD people would probably feel the same.
BTW, my compliments on adding BSD's! I've been a fan of FreeBSD since Apple started utilizing their talents (which goes a long way in my book for endorsing BSD).
And to Ariszlo, ROFL!!!
"Just my two cent.
(Cents would be redundant after two, which already expresses plurality.)"
Finally, my plug for project funding: Scribus.
27 • What is wrong with you people? (by BSD_boi on 2004-05-04 18:43:21 GMT)
Look how much time you are wasting on deciding weither to use "Distribution" or not.
IT REALLY ISN'T THAT IMPORTANT!!!
28 • Linux Trial on CD on Windows PC (by Norman S. Ince at 2004-05-04 20:05:17 GMT)
I heard just enough to spur me to this site, but cannot find what the story was about. It seems that there is a CD which will allow you to run Linux in a Windows system, for your own evaluation. This site, distrowatch.com was given, but I did not get any other information.
This may not be the correct place to ask such information, but if you can direct me to the correct site, would appreciate it very much. Have been wanting to try Linux.
29 • You could use any live cd (by rahul on 2004-05-04 21:13:49 GMT)
you can use knoppix for trying out Linux in any PC.
30 • Re: Linux Trial on CD on Windows PC (by Leo on 2004-05-04 22:15:36 GMT)
You are talking about Linux Live CD's, I would start by exploring knoppix. See the link to knoppix in the main page here at DistroWatch, there is a lot of nice info. There are other Live CD's, but Knoppix is hands down the most popular.
31 • Re: Linux Trial on CD on Windows PC (by P. Pearson on 2004-05-05 13:05:27 GMT)
Here's a list of the "Live CDs":
You can find this list from the main DistroWatch page (http://www.distrowatch.com), select "Search" and then under "Distribution Categories" select "CD-based Distributions (Live CDs)".
Knoppix *is* the Big Boy On The Block for live CDs.
32 • Forums, suggestion for DW (by Leo on 2004-05-05 17:54:31 GMT)
I know I suggested this before, but you said it wasn't a priority at the time. But have you reconsidered lately to add a discussion forum for each news item that appears in the front page ?
Say for instance that a new Distro is released, people could click on the news article, and discuss installation issues, download mirrors and what not.
All this activity will probably increase the number of visitors and this in turn could increase the profits from ads.
Just 2 cts, cheers
33 • Re: BSD 'Distribution' -- Against (by lingmuhebo0 on 2004-05-04 15:48:22 GMT) (by n0dez at 2004-05-05 19:11:07 GMT)
Linux is NOT based on UNIX.
FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD are OSes derived from BSD, the version of UNIX developed at the University of California at Berkeley.
34 • BSD derived projects and their names (by Keith McAfee on 2004-05-05 23:07:34 GMT)
For people who say "BSD Distrobutions" is completely redundant, don't you realize it is simply a gramatically incorrect shorthand which means this:
A distrobution based upon the original Berkley Systems Distrobution. So "BSD based Distro" or "BSD derived Distro" would be the closest thing. The most verbose way I can think of expressing this correctly would be to call the various BSD brands "BSD Derived Operating System Projects", and their releases would be "BSD Derived OS Releases". Any sane person would probably see that "BSD Project" and "BSD Distrobution" mean the same thing, but "BSD Release" does not, because FreeBSD 5.1 and FreeBSD 4.8 are different releases of the same product. Another term (which we won't use for purely political reasons) is Brand. That's really what these things are: FreeBSD, Mandrake, NetBSD, they are all Brands used for OSes. Mandrake 9 and SUSE 9 are both Linux 2.4 based Distrobutions or Releases, but Mandrake 9 and Mandrake 10 are both Mandrake Brand Linux Distrobutions / Releases.
So my question to Distro Watch is: Which way do you use the term Distrobution? Is "Mandrake" a Distrobution, or is "Mandrake 10" a distrobution? Everything I see here leads me to believe the word distrobution, as used on this site, means the same thing as brand. So FreeBSD is a Distrobution in the same sense. Just like BSD 4.4 was "Berkely Systems Distrobution, release 4.4".
And they ARE distrobutions for 3 reasons: 1) They are distributed, 2) they are branded releases of operating systems (Windows 98 SE is a distro too), 3) This site is called 'distro' watch, and it's reason to exist is to discuss the types of thing that a "BSD Derived Project OS Release" is.
35 • RE: Distrowatch highjacked (by hughesjr at 2004-05-07 01:04:51 GMT)
It's Ladislav website ... if he wants to write about BSD and Linux, then so be it. If you don't like it, don't come back!!!
Problem solved :)
36 • BS Distribution (by Phil on 2004-05-07 03:26:11 GMT)
My vote is for BS Distribution. Mass market appeal galore.
37 • FreeBSD feedback feedback (by Steven Masta at 2004-05-08 02:19:38 GMT)
In the FreeBSD feedback it was mentioned that more and less are the same file - true, but they react differently. Don't know all of the differences, but more exits at end of file, whereas less doesn't. That's reason enough for me to use the less version. Oh yeah - This is in FreeBSD version 5.2.1
38 • what is Linux? (by Ari Maniatis on 2004-05-08 23:55:37 GMT)
Your FreeBSD article was interesting, but you fell into the same trap many technical writers do. There is an increasing public perception that KDE, Apache, Gnome, etc., etc. are all part of "Linux". In your article you talk about running "Linux applications" on FreeBSD. The reality is very different - Linux is really a kernel and associated modules, filesystems, etc - all the other applications you refer to may be installed on a Linux operating system or distribution (like Debian, Gentoo, etc) but they just as well might be compiled and installed on Irix, FreeBSD, Solaris, etc.
In fact, many of these applications were first written for other environments and have been ported to Linux. That doesn't make them any less valuable running under Linux or another Unix OS.
Although the distinction may appear to be small, it is important because there is a perception that FreeBSD needs to be "linux compatible" in order to be useful. That KDE, etc. is somehow part of Linux and not a project unto itself.
39 • portupgrade and FreeBSD ports (by Ari Maniatis at 2004-05-09 00:01:06 GMT)
I am suprised no-one has mentioned "portupgrade". Go to /usr/ports/sysutils/portupgrade and type "make", then "make install". From now on, in order to install a port type:
That's it. Ports deserve much more attention; more than anything else they are what set FreeBSD apart from Linux. They make system administration a breeze.
To see what ports need updating, type:
portversion -v -L =
And finally, to track the current ports tree, make sure you look at cvsup. It is, of course, another port.
40 • distributions vs releases vs flavors (by n00ber at 2004-05-09 04:18:50 GMT)
i think that they should be called BSD Fun Packs or BSD Kid's Meals
41 • I'm going to get flamed for this, but... (by Xerxes on 2004-07-09 17:39:33 GMT)
Look, would some of the BSD users please stop being so elitist about your operating system? We're all in the same boat, working on the same goals; a free operating system, and a cooperative community. Everywhere i go, I see BSD users taking this pointlessly elitist attitude about how much better and more "pure" BSD is than Linux. I've often seen *many* BSD users rip on Linux, when there is no need for it.
The saying is really true about the OS "pecking order": Linux users rip on Windows users, and BSD users rip on Linux users. That's not to say that there aren't any Linux elitists; in fact there are many. But you don't see nearly as many Linux users having a go at BSD as vice versa.
On a recent ofb.biz article, someone was describing their experiences with their first try of FreeBSD, moving from Linux. At the start, they specifically said "FreeBSD is certainly no worse than any other OS I've used", and went on to describe how much quicker to boot he found it than Linux, and how superb the ports system is. He even was so complimentary as to say that he was more or less content to work through his problems until he found solutions, saying:
"What really keeps me working with all this is not some hard-headed persistence, but that I found in FreeBSD at least two things that I came looking for: a speedy system on my aging hardware, and a chance to get off the upgrade merry-go-round."
But unfortunately for him, he posted some problems that he encountered, such as problems with CUPS, and with the Linux emulation.
As usual, the Linux users were replying to the story, suggesting various linux distros to be used as alternatives. But did the BSD users welcome him into the fold, compliment him on his choice, or attempt to help him resolve any of the issues he described?
No. Instead, the BSD users flamed him for having the audacity to suggest that there might be a flaw in the OS, or that a new user might have problems. They insulted him and said he was stupid for using FreeBSD 5.x instead of 4.x. They said he was stupid for not reading the manual more thoroughly. No help whatsoever was offered, just criticism.
And now with this situation, instead of being happy and indeed grateful that a site as prominent as DistroWatch has chosen to support the BSDs, all anyone can do is sit and complain about what they should be called, and proposing a variety of ways to try and set it apart from Linux. It's pure OS elitism and snobbery, and it's pointless. They are very different base systems, but they are ultimately both free (as in freedom) Unix-like operating systems, which share many of the same functionality and applications, which is what people want at the end of the day, all politics aside. It was already mentioned that *very* little complaint had been received about inclusion of BSD, so why start fighting to set yourselves apart from a community that welcomes your inclusion with open arms?
Ladislav, as far as I'm concerned, you can call it whatever you feel is the most appropriate, because you are being courteous enough to support the BSD community on a site which has until recently been entirely Linux based. I for one am glad to see their inclusion, because I think that BSD (FreeBSD in particular) is a very fine OS, and I have a lot of respect for the community, and the operating system itself. I simply see no need for *some* members of that community to consider themselves to be better than other communities working towards the same goal.
Apologies for the rant, this is an issue that has been bothering me for some time.
Number of Comments: 41
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
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|• Issue 664 (2016-06-06): Sabayon 16.05, Debian updates install media, the cost of free software, Qubes explains secure build process|
|• Issue 663 (2016-05-30): Comparing live update methods, Ubuntu MATE's progress, distros debate systemd change, DistroWatch turns 15|
|• Issue 662 (2016-05-23): Clonezilla Live, new Fedora community repository, DragonFlyBSD runs Wayland, a live edition of Slackware and kernel components|
|• Issue 661 (2016-05-16): FreeBSD 10.3, OpenMandriva adopts Clang, Debian adds ZFS packages, PCLinuxOS drops 32-bit and comparing CentOS with RHEL|
|• Issue 660 (2016-05-09): Ubuntu MATE 16.04, Mint's xapps, FreeBSD Quarterly Report, Debian updates 32-bit support, addressing GPL violations|
|• Issue 659 (2016-05-02): Ubuntu 16.04, compiling custom kernels, Cinnamon 3.0, Sabayon launches ARM build, Devuan ships Beta release|
|• Issue 658 (2016-04-25): Kali Linux 2016.1, elementary OS 0.3.2, Debian elects Project Leader, Fedora 24 feature preview, Nard reaches 1.0|
|• Issue 657 (2016-04-18): Redox, Linux Mint improves update manager, planned Fedora 24 features, Ubuntu 16.04 getting Snappy packages|
|• Issue 656 (2016-04-11): Qubes OS 3.1, Whonix offers bug bounties, Puppy's family tree, setting up disk partitions and running bash on Windows|
|• Issue 655 (2016-04-04): Parsix 8.5, Sabayon's Community repository, Red Hat offers free subscriptions, Ubuntu tablets, command line tips|
|• Issue 654 (2016-03-28): PCLinuxOS 2016.03, Using signatures to create a web of trust, Arch Linux rolls out Pacman update, GuixSD packages GNOME|
|• Full list of all issues|