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1 • Thanks, Distrowatch! (by Linus van Pelt on 2004-04-12 11:05:57 GMT) |
Thanks for addind Berkeley Software Distributions to your lists!
There's a lot of unnecessary animosity between Linux and BSD users and it mostly derives from lack of knowledge. I use Debian GNU/Linux and NetBSD and I think they are both great operating systems. BTW, here's a good link for browsing what software is available in pkgsrc (NetBSD's package management system, also ported to Linux):
You might like to add this to your NetBSD links. :-)
2 • The *BSDs use "soft updates" rather than journaled FSs (by J. J. Ramsey at 2004-04-12 13:23:32 GMT)
"I have to admit that I never really used any BSD distribution and I would welcome some information about things like multilingual support, journaled file systems and any information missing from the tables."
AFAIK, there are no journaled filesystems for the *BSDs. Rather, they use what are called "soft updates." I'm not sure what the technical details of soft updates are, just that soft updates are a different way to insure filesystem integrity in case the power goes out unexpectedly.
3 • xorg-x11 (by Jukka on 2004-04-12 14:40:37 GMT)
I'm not sure whether this is the right place to ask, but: would it be possible to add xorg-x11 to the main package list? At least from Fedora xfree86 has now completely disappeared, and the xorg-x11 versions seem to get updated rather quickly.
Regarding SElinux. I can only speak for myself, but when I suddenly started getting lots of policy messages in my boot log, I just rebooted, added selinux=0 to my kernel line, and that was that. I like tinkering with bleeding edge versions, but I just don't have the time to fix forty messages in my bootlog.
4 • short BSD comparison (by MET on 2004-04-12 15:19:22 GMT)
Here are a couple articles that compare the newly added BSDs for those curious like myself.
Welcome to the DW club!
Now, which one shall I download first....
5 • request (by peyman at 2004-04-12 15:47:43 GMT)
Many thanks for your fascinating web-site.
Could you please add "Linux With Special Features" category which could possibly contain a distro with the newest core (Kernel)?
6 • BSD additions (by seetru at 2004-04-12 17:46:55 GMT)
This was a positive step for this website, in my opinion.
my feelings on the best OS to use are, why limit yourself? try them all!
7 • FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD on DW (by Anonymous on 2004-04-12 20:20:59 GMT)
That's a wise decision!
8 • BSD Live CD's? (by popuman at 2004-04-12 20:26:32 GMT)
any BSD live CD's around? I'd like to check them out.
9 • re: BSD Live CD's (by mike on 2004-04-12 21:05:49 GMT)
DragonFly appears to qualify as a seperate *BSD distro (or "fork" as bsd folks say), independent of FreeBSD.
10 • Live BSDs (by Scott on 2004-04-12 21:09:35 GMT)
Here's a couple of Live BSDs:
I know there are a couple more, but I can't remember them at the moment.
11 • OpenBSD (by Federico Calboli at 2004-04-12 22:19:39 GMT)
First off, great idea to add the BSD variants to DW. Second, I thought that OpenBSD were a CANADIAN project, on the ground of Theo deRaadt being canadian and strong crypto being illegal in the US...
12 • Documentation sites: www.yolinux.com (by Penguin on 2004-04-12 22:27:34 GMT)
Here's a nice Linux documentation site that I recently discovered while surfing on the net:
YoLinux Information Portal
It has - besides of a funny theme - quite a comprehensive list of links to Linux documentation online. A recommended visit.
However, I question a bit the inclusion of several links to some "Underground Hacker Sites" on the YoLinux frontpage... But I guess that could make browsing the site all the more tempting...;-)
13 • BSD (by Penguin on 2004-04-12 22:37:54 GMT)
Now as the BSD distros are included too (which is good, I think), that should make people soon to excpect to find more BSD related information on DistroWatch, like reviews and articles, too.
So, how about, for example, reviewing the new NetBSD 2.0 release? It also seems that OpenBSD (Ultra security) and FreeBSD (speed, features, software) have got most of the attention these days - though NetBSD may be as good if not better in many of its features. And NetBSD is, as many know, perhaps the most portable OS anywhere ever.
14 • Lunar Linux review? (by Penguin on 2004-04-12 22:53:23 GMT)
Also at least one advanced source-based Linux distribution comes to my mind that might deserve a review - at least somewhere:
Lunar Linux: http://www.lunar-linux.org/
Both of Lunar's cousin distros, Sorcerer and Sourcemage have already been reviewed on DistroWatch and elsewhere many times, and most other source-baased distributions too, but I have never seen a Lunar Linux review anywhere yet.
What makes Lunar Linux different from Sorcerer and Source Mage? They seem to have more in common than how much differ from each other. But at least Lunar Linux commands of managing software don't sound like spells from the latest Harry Potter book ;-) but they use a space/Lunar theme instead..:). Also, both Source Mage and Sorcerer seem to have accepted the new XFRee86 4.4 with its new license (that is GPL-incompatible) while Lunar seems to have chosen to have the GPL compatible X like most other major distributions (the good choice IMHO).
15 • BSD LIVE CDS (by godsmonster at 2004-04-12 22:53:32 GMT)
Live CD http://livecd.sourceforge.net
FreeBSD live-FS - http://user.berklix.org/~dgw
FreeBSD Disc 2 - http://www.freebsd.org
NetBSD live ftp://iso.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/iso/1.6/i386live.iso.bz2
NetBoz Firewall http://www.netboz.net
16 • BSD books (by Gary Routh at 2004-04-12 23:51:49 GMT)
My foray into BSD after years of linux has just enriched my knowledge and skills in linux. I still use Slack on my my main machine, but enjoy FreeBSD on my test machine.
One of the key strengths of BSD for me has been the excellent books - you just don't find many books like Greg Lehey's Complete FreeBSD. I don't buy computer books much anymore, but this one is a gem!
Very happy to see DistroWatch make this move, I am sure it will enrich the community as a whole.
Thank You! happyg
17 • BSD live CD's (by popuman at 2004-04-13 05:45:38 GMT)
Thanks for the info guys.
18 • BSD's (by Andrew on 2004-04-13 06:56:09 GMT)
Cheers for putting these on Distrowatch!
I've missed some important BSD releases because I spend too much time here reading up on Linux distros, now I can truly kill two birds with one stone.
19 • Any news on PHLAK? (by PHLAK FAN on 2004-04-13 12:24:14 GMT)
So anyone have an update on PHLAK??
I will be sad to see this go!! Glad I downloaded 0.2-1 when I did!
20 • On the inclusion of the *BSDs (by Maximus at 2004-04-13 14:08:16 GMT)
Most welcome a decision and implemntation. I agree with some of the views here i.e. GNU/Linux and the various *BSD have MUCH that UNITES them then things that DIVIDES them. For starters, they are ALL Open Source OSes. And users of BOTH OSes can and do on a daily basis use one another's tools/programs e.g. the startup scripts of Slack (BSD scripts); and GNU's GCC is in ALL the *BSDs. I'm in the process of installing FreeBSD on a spare hard drive already. Sincerely hope that distrowatch will become as much a HOME for the *BSDs as it is a HOME for GNU/Linux.
- Just A Debian/Slackware fan -
21 • RE: The *BSDs use "soft updates" rather than journaled FSs (by Jörg Sonnenberger at 2004-04-13 15:27:27 GMT)
Soft updates try to achieve similiar goals to journaling. In principle the FFS can be hold in a mostly consistent state if ensure certain changes are written to disk before others. If you want to delete an inode, it is important to first delete the directory entry and _afterwards_ decrement the link counter. Similiar if you want to create a new file, the inode is allocated and setup first with the incremented link counter and afterwards the directory entry is created.
The advantage is no additional overhead for keeping the filesystem is in fully _recoverable_ state. The disadvantages are as follow:
- still have to run fsck to garbage collect inodes / blocks / update inode counters.
- depends on working disk hardware not faking e.g. writes while the data is still in a disk cache.
- much more complex algorithm than Journaling.
So softdep is an optimization of the best case, e.g. stable hardware with UPS, while Journaling is one for the worst case. It should be mentioned that the idea of softdep can be used for many filesystems, not only UFS. IIRC does the NetBSD implementation of ext2 support softdep as well.
22 • Re: Policeware (by utabintarbo at 2004-04-13 16:57:26 GMT)
I think the policeware provisions of the CBDTPA would best serve us by being put into law:
- So many people would be subject to prosecution that the public would recoil, leading to:
-- A general revolt against such laws.
-- A re-examination of the role of the government in such matters.
-- Probably some of the main actors being booted from office.
-- Rampant jury nullification.
This would be a VERY good thing!
23 • OpenOffice (by Anonymous on 2004-04-13 17:51:29 GMT)
There are native OpenOffice.org and Opera releases for FreeBSD!
Here you can buy FreeBSD on CDs and other stuff (i.e.: t-shirts)
I've also found a site with lots of FreeBSD links
Well you can also find Slackware Linux links and other stuff.
Now we can monitor both Linux and *BSD all in one place, isn't that great?
24 • Gates just luvs BSDs, why shouldn't we? (by GP on 2004-04-13 18:55:50 GMT)
Gates just luvs BSDs, why shouldn't we?
It greatly cuts the development costs of our beloved corporation. A little tweak, and you get a new MSFT standard. And when you're a good boy, the corpy throws a few tidbits at you, like Apple does.
Down with bone heads such as RMS! Great move!
25 • Reminder: FreeBSD can run Gentoo,Debian and Redhat userland (by BSD_boi on 2004-04-13 22:33:16 GMT)
26 • FreeBSD CD2 (by Anonymous on 2004-04-14 17:19:42 GMT)
Just a quick note:
The second CD of FreeBSD is a Live CD and isn't required to install FreeBSD.
If you have installed and used Slackware Linux, you'd find FreeBSD similar in some aspects such as the sysinstall installer (it's a setup tool as well), the BSD init scripts, ...
You should give it a try. It's worth.
Thanks for adding FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD.
27 • Very similar to Slackware? (by GP at 2004-04-14 21:41:47 GMT)
"If you have installed and used Slackware Linux, you'd find FreeBSD similar in some aspects such as the sysinstall installer (it's a setup tool as well), the BSD init scripts,"
If you use Slackware, my advice is "Stay with Slackware" and encourage its efforts instead of BSD's , the reason being a little acronym called GPL.
Shit, what is happening here is hardly believable. The BSD license is an invitation to patenting some of its work and right on the top of this page is an advertisement against software patents in Europe.
Why such a stupid license? Because the «B» stands for Berkely, and all this university wanted after its disagreement with ATT, was an OS they could teach that would permit its students to go work for the big corporations after their course was over. For instance, it's no mystery that people familiar with the BSDs are feeling quite at home with OS X.
The philosophy is exactly at odds with GNU-Linux. The proposed cohabitation is a very clear indication of the complete ignorance of the Linux philosophy by the maintainer of this site.
It might make MSFT's trolls very happy, but it certainly is a sad day for Distrowatch, which cannot be counted anymore as site promoting GNU-Linux interests.
28 • BSDL (by Anonymous on 2004-04-14 23:38:15 GMT)
I have to disagree with you.
BSD encourages anyone including corporations to use their technology even making it proprietary. I think BSDL is less restrictive than GPL. Thanks to that, the TCP/IP stack is almost on every OS on earth, as it was born on BSD Unix and BSD licensed. You can fork a BSD-licensed project and relicensed under the GPL; could you do that the opposite way?
Think as if you were a corporation. You might have done some changes that you don't want to reveal because you would be revealing some trade secrets.
OK. Another case. You're a corporation that wants to license everything under the GPL. It's OK. But remember, not all corporations think like you. So, it doesn't matter if that piece of software is OSS or proprietary if it gets the work done.
The good thing is that there isn't an unique license for open source software. The bad thing is that some projects with different licenses don't interchange code because of this. This means less compatibility.
Please don't make false arguments and be polite. There's nothing wrong if you don't like something. FreeBSD has some GNU things. GNU/Linux has also some BSD tools and applications.
DistroWatch is doing a great job promoting open source operating systems (GNU/Linux and *BSD)
29 • 2 cents (by warpengi at 2004-04-15 06:49:10 GMT)
Well I ahve to say I have mixed feelings. On the one hand I am glad to see the BSD's being listed here. From what I know of them they are very good OS's, stable and secure, and deserving of support. On the other hand the GPL is a very important part of Linux and the Linux community and for some of the same reasons that the previous poster made I think it is important we support the GPL in the strongest manner possible.
In this age of supreme IP protection we need the philosophy that the GPL holds at it's core. That is that not everything in this world is better when it is done for capitalist reasons. There are a lot of flaws in capitalism and not everything should be under capitalist/corporate control.
If the people don't assert their rights over certain values and freedoms then everything will be controlled by corporations. Ideals of democracy and freedom are being lost as corporations buy up the rights to our genetic structures, our land, our environment and especially our elected politicians.
Who owns the right to a sunset, a wilderness beach, our imagination, our creations, a school, a library?
Well I guess I believe Linux is where it is today because people found that the GPL enables and empowers them. I certainly hope that continues to be true. Then there will certainly room for the BSD's and their different license.
30 • GPL (by Anonymous on 2004-04-15 10:21:35 GMT)
IMHO, many corporations they want to stay away from the politics of the GPL and Linux. In fact many of them, don't embrace Linux because of the GPL.
Some Linux distroes for the masses (Xandros, Lindows, Lycoris) include proprietary installers and other kinds of tools. If you go to Walmart and see a desktop PC without Windows, you'll probably see that comes with any of them pre-installed.
Why those tools are proprietary? Because they're being developed by them and are the things that distinguish them from other Linux distroes. They want to make money. That's another different world. Please note that use open source on a daily basis but I think that everything has its place (including proprietary tools). Anyway, I prefer open source software. :)
If you want to promote something, promote open source, not just GPL'ed stuff.
GPL = for people
BSDL = for everyone, including corporations.
31 • The Mumbo Jumbo license (by GP at 2004-04-15 17:52:27 GMT)
"I have to disagree with you. BSD encourages anyone including corporations to use their technology even making it proprietary."
Here you agree.
"I think BSDL is less restrictive than GPL. Thanks to that, the TCP/IP stack is almost on every OS on earth, as it was born on BSD Unix and BSD licensed."
This is the full bullshit main argument of the BDSs. Microsoft had absolutely no interest for the net when the BSD stack was developed. Hence theur non-intervention.
"The bad thing is that some projects with different licenses don't interchange code because of this."
The bad thing is that the BSD license allows any company to steal code and go their own way, putting open standards in peril.
The pretention that the BSD license leads to a freeer world is pure mumbo jumbo.
32 • Help site (by hughesjr at 2004-04-16 00:44:43 GMT)
Want linux help ... go to:
33 • Re: The Mumbo Jumbo license (by Den on 2004-04-16 08:47:15 GMT)
Don't like the BSD license?
Then don't use GNU/Linux;
Why? Because there are BSDL'ed apps in GNU/Linux: the mount command (among others), some KDE apps, (KDE panel, KNewsTicker, Kaboodle, etc), LILO (the LInux boot LOader), XFree86, Apache, to name a few of them.
FreeBSD has GPL'ed apps too. I don't see anything wrong in both cases as both are open source operating systems.
Take it easy!
34 • Den: where are your sources? (by GP at 2004-04-16 18:22:51 GMT)
Because I didn't know what Kabbodle was, I checked it first. Here goes:
«All of the source code to the program is made available under the GNU General Public License.»
As for Apache:
"The Apache Software Foundation is still trying to determine if this version of the Apache License is compatible with the GPL."
XFree's license is so clear that it needs a FAQ right below it but I'm afraid it has nothing to do with a BSD license
So, maybe those applications use BSD code, but they aren't BSD licensed. So provide your sources, it's not normally for your readers to check what kind of bullshit you're giving them.
OTOH, to my surprise, lilo uses a BSD license:
"The above license is copied from the BSD license"
So, what's the point? BSD has had a long existence and was the first to provide open source code. And Microsoft, Apple and Linux have borrowed from it. Does this mean that BSD is the license to use as Microsoft got hold of more than 95% of the desktop market share? I really don't believe so.
That's going to be it for me now. I think I made my opinion clear and those who haven't understood yet, certainly never will despite all arguments I could still provide.
35 • BSD Licenses (by Brandon on 2004-04-18 05:29:56 GMT)
I don't know about you, but I'm glad that Microsoft has a stable TCP/IP stack. I know that Microsoft could have coded their own, but I believe that it would be bug-ridden.
Which would you rather the most popular desktop in the world had? I choose the stable TCP/IP stack.
The BSD license has its merits.
36 • BSD license has historical reasons (by A. Nonnymouse at 2004-04-18 06:29:14 GMT)
Don't forget that the BSD's got their start in UC Berkeley, where academics researched and developed it for well over decade. The UC system is at least partially funded with taxpayers money, meaning millions of California (and even non-California US residents) contributed money to it.
I believe that these are two of the reasons for the extreme freedom granted by the BSD license, i.e firstly the longstanding tradition of making the results of your research available to anyone who is interested, and secondly, the fact that the public spent money to develop it and therefore deserved to get relatively unrestricted access to the result.
IANAL, but there might well be rules that force publicly funded universities to make those results obtained using public funding available to the public.
37 • No subject (by GP at 2004-04-18 15:13:23 GMT)
"Which would you rather the most popular desktop in the world had? I choose the stable TCP/IP stack."
As I said, if the TCP/IP stack was to be invented today, Microsoft would borrow it from BSD, add a few lines to make it its own standard. The said lines would make it buggy, no doubt They would justify an upgrade pretty soon, then another, then another and mean greater compatibility with M$ products, since they're also buggy.
Gee, those guys who put together the TCP/IP stack did make quite a reputation for BSD, didn't they?
I can see that. The GPL makes the code available "to the public". It just makes sure the companies continue contributing instead of using the taxpayers money to fleece them some more.
In a world where software has become ubiquitous, it's the only way to set standards. Wake up, people! Gone are the seventies when a few geeks in rare universities where sharing their first programs.
38 • Linux help ? (by Linux forum at 2004-05-08 15:11:41 GMT)
BTw.. those geeks from 70es has resulted in Linux , internet and so more.. I just got a article and found that open source system was developed most likely due to those geeks..
more linux help : http://www.linuxsolved.com
Number of Comments: 38
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