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1 • upgrading Linux (by warpengi on 2003-07-07 07:54:14 GMT) |
I have been running Mandrake since 8.0. I have never been able to upgrade successfully. Thankfully Mandrake installs /home as a separate partition so all I have to do is format the other partitions and do a new install.
I was playing with some other distros recently and was shocked to discover that was not standard practice. Guess that means I am using a wrong OS:-0 but it works for me.
2 • upgrading Linux, Yoper, Logo (by Benjamin Vander Jagt at 2003-07-07 09:14:13 GMT)
This is very intriguing. I've never thought of upgrading that way. In their defense, though, Red Hat has made updating very easy and reliable without need for reboot. Of course, that's updating as opposed to upgrading. Upgrading still requires rebooting with CD #1 in the drive. However, that works very well, too, as I've even told it to "upgrade" from a Red Hat 8.0.94 beta to 8.0 (8.0.94 became 9), and it worked perfectly. Those who need to upgrade without taking the system down may still be able to after a laborous task of inserting, say, Rawhide RPMs. I've had very good luck with this.
I forgot to mention that J.A.M.D. 0.0.6 comes with Synaptic, and I've installed large items, including GNOME with it. Synaptic can probably accomplish the task for J.A.M.D. users. I'd like to take this moment to plug my project, DLIP (dlip.sourceforge.net), which upon completion will, among many other things, make automated updates very easy to implement into Linux distributions.
As for Yoper, which I've written so many bad reviews of, I'm glad and quite proud of them. Many thanks and congratulations to Mr. Girardet. I wish the best for him and the Yoper team. Yoper has a few things to its advantage, including a very fast boot. I am not quite sure, but I don't *think* I've tried the most recent version (the actual release version) of Yoper. (Too bad this means slighty reduced advertising revenue, eh? hehe)
For the logo, I personally recommend the person who did the logo for Vector. It just *feels* like Slackware, and Slackware *feels* like geek. It's some sort of cutting edge feeling, slick, elegant and mysterious, noble, simple, high-tech logo. There are more words to describe it, but I think I've gone overdescriptive already. I'm pretty sure the designer is easy to find, too. I'll check on the Vector boards.
By the way, and I regret not having said this earlier, I really like DistroWatch Weekly. It brings to me the joy that a newspaper brings to normal people...and you can quote me on that.
3 • running as root (by Benjamin Vander Jagt at 2003-07-07 09:20:16 GMT)
Also, thanks for defending the position that some people do want to run as root (as you did in the "Lindows.com - Friend or Foe?" review you linked to in this week's DWW). I did myself for a while, even though my computer is a server and client holding some precious data. Of course, the vast majority of users should run as users. The only reason I switched back to running as a user was that Wine kept complaining that it wouldn't create certain files unless I had a user to run as.
4 • Thank you! (by Nisse Jouni on 2003-07-07 09:38:28 GMT)
I'd like to thank the staff of Distrowatch.com. The site has been very important to me. I'm a "OS freak" I've tried dozens of linuxdistros, and finally I've have find the perfect distro for me, Debian. Thank you wery much...
P.S. Can I help your project somehow?
5 • RE: running as root (by ladislav at 2003-07-07 11:39:32 GMT)
No, I wasn't defending the run-as-root concept - I was merely looking at it from the point of view of those who market Lindows and who want to reduce the complexity of an operating system for non-technical users. Using the OS for general tasks while logged in as root is wrong, period.
6 • Updgrading distros (by Leo on 2003-07-07 14:32:20 GMT)
I have had very good luck upgrading RedHat (6.0 up to 7.3), and then Mandrake (9.0->9.1). In almost all cases I upgraded from the CDs, no big deal. You choose the "upgrade" mode, and this is it. Mandrake is in general easier, at least to me. I even upgraded a box just using URPMI, a la debian. No problems whatsoever. All packages got upgraded with no conflicts.
Lots of people suggest "clean installs", which is not appropriate nor convenient in most cases. The other thing to consider is bandwidth. Not everyone have fast internet connections to upgrade from the net.
All in all, Mandrake (with urpmi and its software management from the control center) has made my life so easy in this regard. Mandrake made my computing easier in many aspects but this is off-topic :-) My 2 cts.
7 • Waiting list (by Leo on 2003-07-07 14:37:55 GMT)
Ladislav, the waiting list is growing and growing. Distros are blooming, some of them very small and specific. At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised to see more distros in the waiting list than being tracked some time soon. Do you have any ideas on this respect ? (like installing a voting booth or something similar so that you only track, say, 100 o 150 distros).
8 • RE: Waiting list (by ladislav at 2003-07-07 15:23:00 GMT)
Well, based on my experience, about half of them won't survive the 3-months waiting period. As an example, take the PlumpOS project at http://plumpos.sourceforge.net/ - the author emailed me with a request to list his distro, but 3 months later, the project page has a blurb about some other interesting projects taking priority over PlumpOS. This is usually the first sign of the project being on life support, so don't be surprised if the current release candidate never matures into a final release. Other projects appear to be in a similar situation. I'll keep them on the waiting list for another 3 months and if I don't see any new activity, I'll drop them from the list.
All new distributions will added as they come. Many projects seem nothing but clones of existing distributions, but there are still plenty of interesting ideas worth a look. It's tough though - you really have to do something right to break into the top league (like Knoppix).
What can I do besides sorting out the big distribution mess and present it here in a more logical and organised fashion? It has been fun so far, so I'll just keep going :-)
9 • Logo (by DaveW on 2003-07-07 17:45:54 GMT)
I'm no designer, but suggest you shorten the name to DistroWeek (as in Newsweek, Business Week, etc) and just put it in a nice serif font.
10 • *sigh* oh well. :-p (by Benjamin Vander Jagt at 2003-07-07 18:40:31 GMT)
"I was merely looking at it from the point of view of those who market Lindows and who want to reduce the complexity of an operating system for non-technical users. Using the OS for general tasks while logged in as root is wrong, period."
Of course, that's the reason I was running as root. The way I use my computer, running as a user gave me no extra security. I was always su-ing to root to do everything, like tweaking GATOS, installing software, messing with settings, accessing customer's hotswapped hard drives, etc. It's true that I could just keep su-ing as I needed, but in a few computers here, it just made more sense to log in, even to X, as root, such as for my little bro, little sis, and mom, who know what they want to do but not always how.
I'm back to running as a user now and often find myself having to startx -- :1 as root to get things done more quickly and easily. For the record, I've never lost any data or had any systemwide problems running as root. Also for the record, I don't recommend running as root except under certain circumstances. (If you don't mind having the security of a Windows box but want the power of a Linux box, running as root *might* be for you.)
I don't use illegal drugs, but I don't think it's "wrong, period" (other than being illegal, of course). I think that there are more legitimate uses than people admit to, for both drugs and root.
Let's keep in mind that wonderful security and a true userspace is not what separates Linux from Windows, where any user can access any files. Linux was the best operating system back in 1991, because it's GPL. What makes Linux special is the shedding of counterproductive and immoral copyright and patent laws.
FreeDOS runs as the administrator. Does that make it "wrong"?
I like DaveW's idea for the name change. I think it could still use a more graphical logo, though. As it is now, it definitely stands out from the rest of the headlines. It's easy to spot. Of course, that's a good thing, and a logo ought to take that into consideration. Serif text might do that, or perhaps the headline's text could be in a different color.
11 • Arch live CD (by Penguin Domesticus on 2003-07-07 20:55:03 GMT)
I just noticed that Arch Linux now has a live CD too: http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?t=768. When you review Arch on DW, maybe you should at least mention that (unofficial?) live CD there too?
I read that the live CD can be used to install Arch on HD too. As you've to manually edit various config files etc. when installing Arch, maybe this CD project makes the installation a bit more straightforward for us non-gurus too?
It's nice also that there's now a bit more Arch documentation than before. (Yea, maybe also I'll try installing and configuring Arch again with more success this time...;-/)
12 • Upgrading Mandrake (by LB06 at 2003-07-08 15:09:58 GMT)
Starting from 8.1 upgrading can be done flawlessly through URPMI. Just add ftp.mirror.com/.../current/.../RPMS (I'd pick main, contrib and plf) to your sources and whenever the new release hits your mirror, it can easily be upgraded. Cooker is also an option (à la Debian Unstable).
13 • Mandrake Linux 9.1 User Guide available (by W T Zhu on 2003-07-09 09:18:27 GMT)
Documents available online at http://doc.mandrakelinux.com/MandrakeLinux/91/
and the first beta version of Mandrake 9.2 will come into being soon, hopefully nextweek!
14 • Distro Watch Logo (by darkproximity at 2003-07-09 12:07:07 GMT)
I have created a logo, not sure where i should send it in to, i'll give you a link, tell me what you think. I can make any changes necessary, just tell me what it needs (if anything) http://darkprox.brokli.org/DistroWatchlogo.png
15 • Distro Watch Logo (by darkproximity at 2003-07-09 12:08:37 GMT)
Heh, i should probably leave some contact info, you can email me at email@example.com
16 • updated logo (by darkproximity at 2003-07-09 16:09:33 GMT)
after being contacted about my original logo design, i made a new one, this time to ladislav's specifications, check it out (feedback appreciated)
17 • to make money (by sfernald at 2003-07-09 23:07:49 GMT)
Ladislav, now that your site is popular to make enough money, have you thought about charging "distros" to be listed on your site? Maybe a nice $50 per month fee. Or you could make it a pay-per-click site. "Distros" have to pay $.03 per click sent to your site.
If that makes you uncomfortable, perhaps you could charge a $100 "rush" fee which will promote distros on the waiting list to main page immediately.
Just some ideas. Hope things go well for you.
18 • No subject (by W T Zhu at 2003-07-10 01:20:26 GMT)
What's more, what we exactly need is the DistroWatch Weekly logo, so the concept of Weekly would be somehow represented.
19 • Re: to make money (by Leo on 2003-07-10 01:48:07 GMT)
Regarding the "rush fee", this is implemented in Distro watch, it is implemented and explained here:
The fee is $30
20 • About: will Debian survive the rise of Linux? (by L Gandolfo at 2003-07-10 02:17:11 GMT)
My answer to that question is: yes, definitely.
But the following is needed:
A modern installer, easy and with good hardware detection. The following Debian based distros have managed to do it: Lindows (absolutely magic). Libranet. Xandros. Knoppix: this last one is 100percent Debian, and although the HD installer is far from perfect, it could make a very good starting point.
2) Its own kernel, regularly updated, so that Debian users can update it through apt-get
3) Easier access to popular commercial application, like RealPlayer, Flash..I am not sure how this could be achieved, but if you can very easily find RPM versions, why not Debs?
21 • DistroWatch Weekly logo (by darkproximity at 2003-07-10 03:02:00 GMT)
heres a logo for the main page, for the distrowatch weekly link, the background is transparent, notify me if any color changes are needed.
22 • Debian... (by Spiritraveller at 2003-07-10 14:01:34 GMT)
1) Debian could definitely use a better installer... at least one that works on Intel machines. Morphix is another cd-based Debian distro that you can install to harddrive. It's installer works very well and it's graphical too!
2) Actually, you can already update your kernel through apt-get. Just run "dpkg -l kernel-image*" and you will get a list of available precompiled kernels.
3) You can also get a lot of commercial applications through apt-get. But you have to use unofficial repositories because it is against Debian policy to include any "non-free" software in the official distribution. Just go to www.apt-get.org and do a search for the application you want. Cut and paste one of the repositories into your sources.list file. Both realplayer and flashplayer are available.
23 • About the DW Weekly logos... (by Penguin Domesticus on 2003-07-10 14:19:35 GMT)
I don't really mind what sort of logos you use, and those things are always a matter of taste. But as this subject has been taken under discussion now, I'd like to say that the newest DW Weekly logo - though basically ok (like the one Ladislaw had made was too...) - may look a bit too decorative (is it a bus ticket, or a serif's badge?).
Usually most pro designers like plain stylish simple logos that emphasize the subject and not themselves, consistent with the general style guidelines of the project. Non relevant decoration in logos (and for example in window manager styles too) that only hide the message/function are usually only a sign of unprofessionalism (the reason why I hate most Enlightenment window manager themes, btw).
Why not first make the Weekly logo text short enough? I liked the previous suggestion of the title "Distro Week". No more text is necessarily needed in the logo. And then remove any non-relevant elements from the logo? Just my 2 cents worth though. It is anyway good to see people contributing their grahics to help the site.
24 • RE: About the DW Weekly logos... (by ladislav at 2003-07-11 14:13:06 GMT)
I was hoping for more logo submissions, but so far only darkproximity has made any effort. I would like to see several logos and get some comparisons/voting going... It looks like I'll have to repeat the call again next week. Many people are quick to criticise, but scurry away when asked to contribute some ideas. Oh, well...
25 • dw logos (by darkproximity at 2003-07-12 12:49:24 GMT)
Were you just looking for the distrowatch weekly logos, or other ones too? because i can make more :)
26 • Distrowatch Weekly (by Coolcmsc at 2003-07-12 20:15:19 GMT)
Here is some feedback on ELX.
A couple of weeks ago an editorial here attracted a bit of debate http://www.distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20030623.
This realted to DistroWatch's measure of 'Activity'. This is apparently partly being measured in terms of support, mainly on their forums.
I purchased vs 2.0 the day Disrtowatch came out and posted a reply to the above address. Here is what happened next:
1. ELX replied to an e-mail I sent expressing concern having read Distro' Weekly. They replied within 24 hours with a request: Would I like to wait until the Friday (4/7/2003) for dispatch of my distro, in hwich case I would ger vs 3.0 - about to be released they said. I was amazed at the speed and supportive reply! I note there is nothing on DistroWatch about upcoming distros nor is there on their site about vs 3.0.
2. That was 1/7/2003. Today is 12/7/2003, I am in the UK and they are in Asia. I am now starting to drum my fingers, so to speak.
By the way, they have 2 sets of forums:
http://www.hdox.com/phpBB2/index.php and http://elxlinux.org/elx/innercircle/Forum/
Did you survey both for your editorial? I will be back with info as to when (if) my distro arrives and the support I got during install.
Number of Comments: 26
Display mode: DWW Only • Comments Only • Both DWW and Comments
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